When LGBTQ+ students' identities clash with educators' religious beliefs, who should win out?
That is the question school districts across America are reckoning with, as an unprecedented number of LGBTQ+ students are coming up against the (often Christian) religious values of the older generations teaching them. And the fight has spread far beyond locker-lined high school halls, to school board meetings, the internet, and even the courts.
Painting Outside the Lines
We start in Virginia, where a school board is up in arms over a piece of religious-themed art created by an LGBTQ+ student.
The controversial piece was painted by Fort Defiance High School senior Abby Driscoll for the school’s spring art show. The theme of the show was “trauma,” and Driscoll’s painting showcases a pair of praying hands clasping a rosary, with the words “God loves you but not enough to save you” alongside them – all on a canvas made of Bible pages:
“This piece is representative of the idea that growing up queer meant you couldn’t be saved by God,” says Driscoll. “I grew up in a religious background and that influenced this project.”
Suffice to say, the display ruffled some feathers. A special school board meeting was called to address the painting, and several school board members said they were looking into possible court rulings they could use to prohibit such artwork from appearing in future art shows.
School board member Mike Lawson pondered whether “the desecration of religious texts” falls “under the umbrella of ‘art.’”
“By allowing pages from the Holy Bible to be the canvass of a clearly anti-Christian message, we are opening the door to all religious texts for all religious faiths to be subject to being treated the same way,” he later wrote in a social media post.
The board ultimately decided to leave Driscoll’s painting up, but LGBTQ+ rights activists worry that future displays could be imperiled if the board decided to crack down on art that offends their religious beliefs.
Pronoun Showdown
Across the country, an evangelical teacher emerged the victor in a fight with her former school district after she was dismissed for violating its policy on transgender students.
Jessica Tapia will reportedly receive a $360,000 payout in a settlement with Jurupa Unified School District in Riverside County, California.
Tapia sued the school district after she was let go from her position as a physical education teacher in 2023 for failing to follow school policy on using gender-affirming language – including refusing to both use transgender students’ preferred pronouns, and to not out transgender and gender-nonconforming students to their parents.
Tapia says the school’s policies conflict with her Christian faith, and her belief that God created man and woman. Fellow believers cheered the outcome that they believe "will deliver a message" to other teachers:
Critics have less sympathy for her situation. They argue that Tapia knowingly violated the school's pronoun policy – intended to make all students feel safe and welcome at school – and as a consequence was rightfully put out of a job.
Cracks Keep Growing
Two different stories, and two different outcomes – but together, they're representative of a growing divide between traditional religious values and the educators that hold them, and a generation of LGBTQ+ students and allies who feel more emboldened and proud to express their authentic selves in the classroom.
Such clashes are playing out daily in communities across America, from debates over books with LGBTQ+ themes in classrooms, to pronoun bans at religious colleges, to controversial laws that would allow chaplains to serve as school counselors.
With no resolution in sight, one can reasonably expect more headlines like this to come.
What are your thoughts? Where do you see this conflict headed?
129 comments
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RAYMOND BENITEZ
The Bible does not present arguing as a good thing. In fact, God’s Word tells us specifically to avoid arguments. Christians are to be loving, kind, humble, and respectful to others. The only time a Christian should argue is when defending the faith against false teachers and others. There are appropriate ways to argue Scripture, and careful study of the Bible itself reveals it must be done in love and good faith, not flippantly. Question is "Who would win" I say the Bible. not the opinion of people.
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Lionheart
Gods word also tells us to stone people to death, and condones slavery, or do you want to skip over that bit of scripture?
🦁❤️
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Russel A. Kester
Lionheart, Raymond specifically referred to a Christian understanding and interpretation of holy scriptures. Stoning people to death is not a Christian value or belief. Any who have done terrible things like that are wrong and committed terrible sins. You might say that the ancient Hebrews believed such things as did neighboring peoples in the area and Islam still does today, but not Christianity.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
Christianity and Islam are both offshoots of Judaism. What you say is systematically inaccurate.
It would be better to state that the Torah is applied in cultural contexts.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
This statement is misleading, and you ought to be more intellectually honest.
You most likely know that the Torah was given on Sinai and yet applied in context. It cut through a pagan-filtered culture. The Torah today has not changed, but we apply it in the light of grace through the redeeming work of Christ.
As for slavery, in those days prisons weren't a real thing like today. Today we have correction facilities. In those days they were conferred simply as punishment. The very notion of allowing a convicted criminal to be in service for a given amount of time was in itself the embryo of what we have today in our prison systems.
Galatians 5:1 is an application of the sentence of freedom given by a judge after a time of slavery (or correction facility if you wish).
So, again, things have to be viewed in context.
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Joseph Gillespie
I remember the uproar over art piece Piss Christ. It was odd, I guess I didn't get it. As for this piece I commend the student for being brave enough to speak up, additionally i agree with the message.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Students have rights. Teachers, especially in public schools, and publicly funded charter or parochial schools have privileges.
The student has the right to be educated by the teacher who is charged with conveying the knowledge and skills necessary for that student to master a particular subject or activity.
The teacher, by virtue of having formal education, and the necessary certifications, degrees, and licenses required to teach and educate others @ certain subjects or skills, has no right to teach or educate: the teacher has only the privilege of teaching/ educating others by virtue of the knowledge and skills the teacher has been trained, certified and licensed to teach.
The teacher's degrees, certifications and licenses are fully dependent on the oversight of the bodies that accredit and provide oversight to the degrees, certifications and licenses, and this includes the organization's ethics as well as requirements for on-going continuing education and certification to grow and develop skills.
The organizations that grant degrees, certifications, and licenses can, at any time upon complaint investigate whether a teacher/educator is violating a code of ethics, state rules, students' rights etc. and enforce corrective actions.
Because the onus is on the individual professional , the employer, and the bodies that have provided the degrees, certifications, and licenses that guarantee that the professional is meeting the standards consistent with the profession as a whole.
These teachers who want to claim discrimination and get a lot of media attention because a boy or girl wants to be called he/she/it/ Madonna or Spider man or Emmett? Who cares? Children develop and grow, and will regardless of over-reaching parents or educators with an ax to grind in public.
That does not violate the teacher's rights. And those who seek to be excluded on religious grounds need to teach someplace else or face penalties from the issuers of their degrees, certifications and licenses, up to and including revocation or surrendering of their degrees, certifications and licenses.
Let the school boards and the teacher's unions be the place to squabble about such things.
And if your values are not in line with where you work, find someplace else to work that is in line with your values.
And stop dragging the kids and the schools though whichever personality disorder you've been diagnosed with or soon should be.
Peace, out.... tk
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Russel A. Kester
Daniel, you forgot about the parents and there rights which trump school boards and teachers unions. These are their children. And these are their and the rest of the community's taxes supporting the school district. The school district and its employee work for them. This is where both school boards and teachers' unions have gone off the tracks so to speak.
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Pastor George Day
Daniel Todd Kamm,
I'm afraid your line of judgment infringes on the area of free speech.
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Rev Samantha Counihan
1) it states that student is a christian and a LGBTQ member as well, the "school board" is wrong to state that student isnt a christian because of being themself. 2)that teacher is a narsissist, you dont sue a company after you get fired any sane person knows this, that teacher and that judge are in the wrong
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Pastor George Day
Rev Samantha Counihan,
What do you mean by a narcissist? They are just exercising their right to free speech!
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Walter J. Holbrook
As mentors of the word of God, we are suppose to offer salvation. Not judge. God will handle the judgement in his time. To many are persecutors and not deliverers.
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Lionheart
Hi Sir Walter. Did you have a particular god in mind that you are referring to. It seems that mankind has created so many. Thank you for your post. 🤗
🦁♥️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
How about the Egyptian gods? We know how evil they are! Watch the movie The Exorcist to get an idea of Pazuzu, for instance!
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John Casillo
IT'S LIKE CHANGING A VERY BAD STATION BUT IT STILL RETURNS TO THE ONE YOU SO BADLY WANT TO CHANGE
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Keith Law
Religious indoctrination has no place in any publicly funded school in the United States. That’s a matter of Constitutional law. Parents need to stand up to that by hiring ACLU lawyers to go after the teachers and the school’s administration.
This is a no brainer!
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Pastor George Day
Keith,
What's ACLU?
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Lady Mutt Cat
With paydays like this, I'm tempted to get a job at a fundamentalist Christian school and start preaching my Wiccan faith. I'll settle for $360,000 for being fired.
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Miriam Gates
First our rights are being slowly taken away. Second these distractions put out are meant to continually keep the focus off of what is really going on. Picture this the USA is a big pot and standing over the pot with a big spoon is a giant putting all these distractions in like ingredients, turning up the fire 🔥 under said pot stirring and laughing at all the constant fighting/legal opinions….its going too far
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Echo
A religion that's supposed to be based on forgiveness and love, show lots of hate. Continuing this practice only harms people and if hate is what it wants to preach then should it not be considered a criminal act to practice hate?
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Lady Mutt Cat
I have found that the people who are loudest about their Christian faith are also the most hateful, rigid, condemning people around. Not an ounce of turn the other cheek in their makeups.
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RAYMOND BENITEZ
To simplify issues and concern we need to understand what comes from the Bible and what comes from Government. Once we understand that then we can follow through. If we disagree to what the Bible says, we are not following protocol. The same with Government laws even though the rule of law laid out in the Constitution descends from the Ten Commandments. We have to determine what is correct, 1. Our personal opinion. 2. The Bible in conjunction with Government laws.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
On the art...art is what it is, any any time anyone makes art using religious icons to denounce a harmful aspect of that religion, it offends the members of that religion. That's a tale as old as art. We members of the neopagan community put up with decades of stupid movies depicting our practices in ridiculous and offensive ways. As one gets older we learn to unbunch our panties, because ultimately, art is art and we always have the choice of deciding not to look at it.
Re: the teacher...good for her, she milked the system and turned her inability to do her job properly into a cash cow. She put her delicate sensibilities and personal hatred above the well-being of children entrusted to her, and turned it into a way to both make bank and teach those kids that adults don't have their back. She can stand as an example to all who want to abuse their authority and trust for profit. I hope it brings her as much joy as she brought the vulnerable students in her care.
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Pastor George Day
Ari Joseph Bertine,
First of all, abusing pages of a sacred text, that we believe to be the Word of God, is no art. It is just that: abuse of what we believe is the breathing Word. They could have used something else, like their own quotes of Scripture.
Second, the teacher has a right to free speech and freedom of expression. Imposing preferred pronouns on her professional performance is a breach of both.
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Steven Ferrell
People should not be forced to play that gender name and pronoun game if they don’t believe in it and it is against their religion beliefs. Why should the alphabet group have more right to their beliefs than everyone else.
I do not and will not play that game. I don’t do it with my grandchild who says she is trans and wants to be referred to as a boy with a different name, be called he and him, etc.
I don’t use any name for the kid and don’t use any pronouns for the kid when talking to her but that is as far as it goes.-
Ari Joseph Bertine
Nobody was forcing her to be a teacher, though. That job, which required that she not deliberately misgender students, was her choice. If a job requires someone to go against their religious beliefs, they shouldn't work there. We don't see people whose religions forbid handling pork working at a pulled pork restaurant and then suing if they get fired for refusing to do their job. But hey, maybe now we will, since a precedent has been set. Perhaps I should go work for a Christian church and then sue them when they fire me for refusing to promote the Bible, since it's against my religion.
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Russel A. Kester
Ari, her job did require that she deliberately misgender the students when it insisted that she use pronouns that were not their actual gender and sex. A public job, like being a school teacher, cannot require the teacher to violate sincerely held religious beliefs and these teachers may not be refused jobs else the idea that religious discrimination is not allowed by employers would be rendered meaningless. The schools must stop engaging in bad sociological theories. The onus is on the school.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
Just as well, science doesn't support the trans-political agenda on pronouns.
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Pastor George Day
Ari Joseph Bertine,
You sound so deluded like living in your reality!
I am a teacher by profession, though I left the profession for full-time ministry. Tell me where it says that a teacher has to breach their freedom of speech and opinion by giving into fake made up pronouns.
As far as pork, Muslims, and Jews just don't eat it. Nowhere does it say in the Bible or the Kuran they can't serve it to Gentiles? It is different for Messianic Jews like me who go vegan because we believe that's the way the Kingdom will be. But that's another story (check my website about that https://www.theology-of-the-body-church.co.uk/tob-synagogue).
As for working in a church, I'm afraid you have to go by their policy, legally speaking. No one forces you to work there.
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ServantOfJudgement
Even worse Steven, the School forebode the teacher from saying anything to the students parents. It's unethical, immoral and disgusting.
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Michael Hunt
The school forbade the teacher because outing a child as LGBTQ+ to their parents could put the child at serious risk of mental and physical abuse by the parents should they not accept their child as LGBTQ+. If the child hasn't told their parents that they are LGBTQ+, there's more than likely a good reason why.
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Daniel Gray
And the schools that dont do this can and ARE being sued as they have no legal authority to refuse to tell the students parents, not to mention your claim has been refuted so many times that is as dry and dusty as the desert.
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Daniel Gray
And want more proof you are wrong Hunt? Ok Which of the following is a FERPA violation? FERPA, a federal law, gives parents and eligible students (18+) control over their records as well as giving parents control over the records of any child under the age of 18. Common FERPA violations include sharing information without consent, not implementing proper security measures, and not informing parents of their FERPA rights.Jan 11, 2024
Dont forget to read the last section where it clearly states that for a teacher to not tell the parents of records (and that includes medical) then the teacher and the school and the school board can be charged with a federal felony!
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Russel A. Kester
Michael, we don't know any of the things you claim. You seem to think the worst of parents. If a child requests to use a gender other than the natural gender associated with the child's sex, then that is something the parents need to know so that the child can be taken to a mental healthcare professional for evaluation. Withholding such care could be detrimental to the child.
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Robert James Ruhnke
An if the Therapist isn’t some holistic religious quack, they’ll tell the child they’re as normal as apple pie, and that gender dysphoria isn’t the bogey man you try to project it as, Kester.
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Russel A. Kester
No, Robert, a good therapist would likely spend several years in therapy with them to uncover the psychological causes for the child's gender dysphoria and, if they follow recommendations from the Cass Report, will have the child wait until maturity before making any transitions. Teachers, principals, or schools boards are not mental healthcare professionals. Neither are they the child's parent. Using the pronouns that matches the child's sex and informing the parents are the only legitimate actions for anyone in the school system to follow..
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
I could not have explained it better.
Thank you for mentioning the Cass Report too!
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Pastor George Day
Robert James Ruhnke,
If gender dysphoria is as normal as apple pie (as you put it), why is it a medical condition that needs treatment? And why is it called 'dysphoria.'
Mind you, I am diagnosed with it, but I things by their proper name, including apple pies! And I also can distinguish what's normal and what isn't.
Certainly, taking hormones is a high risk for cancer in the long run. You should maybe debate this with a medical doctor. See the feedback they give you!
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
Not to involve parents in major decisions, or even worse to alienate them, is a breach of the Fifth Commandment.
What does the Word prophesy about the last days?
For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, and profane. - 2 TIMOTHY 3:2
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Rev Morse
When my eldest daughter was in high school, she and her best friend came home to me and told me that her friend was now a boy, and call her a boy. I said if she gets the operation to change genders I will address her as him . She has gender dysphoria, she had a baby shortly later and now dresses her son in princess clothes.
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Russel A. Kester
💔
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Pastor George Day
Rev Morse,
That's an extreme!
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Cheryl Pettijohn
The teacher should not ever be hired in a public school. She clearly is not there for the benefit of her students. She is there solely to create conflict, and got paid to do it. If you don't like the rules, work to change them. I don't like the policy in my school where I cannot put a pride flag on my wall, but I abide by that policy because it is the rules. I tell my students on the first day to not come out to any staff member unless they have parental support because we are required to report them to the counselors.
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William Harrison Anderson
This is Blasphemous. It perverts our means of salvation, the crucifixion and death of Jesus, and the rainbow, God's promise never to wipe out humanity again. Jesus did love us enough to save us by dying on the cross and atoning for the sins of humanity. It is humanity that deserves death. But God sent his son to save us. God worked to save humankind by means of himself, as a human with the nature of God and of man together in the person of Jesus the Christ. The Rainbow is God's promise never to destroy humanity ever again. Here it stands for human perversion and decadence. Enough said.
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Michael Blackwood
The teacher in the case mentioned went out of the way to create a controversy. I taught for 30 years. I can’t think of a situation when such a problem would occur. Firstly, I had a hard enough time connecting students and their names. It is hard to remember names and connect with the proper faces of 25-35 students per period in five or six classes per day. I knew the vast majority by Christmas but before then? No way would I be able to associate pronouns. Secondly, I never referred to a student by a pronoun in class. If, in a discussion, I referred back to a student's idea I would normally repeat the idea, call them by name (if remembered, or even point. Thirdly, if I was in a situation where I was using a student's preferred pronoun the student wouldn’t be there. If a trans student identified as male or female I never questioned them. In fact I never actually "knew" as I never checked permanent records to see the gender of students… reading scores, aptitude scores, discipline records, health issues, etc… yes but gender? No need.
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Pastor George Day
Michael Blackwood,
As a former teacher myself, I agree 100%!
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Rev. MichaelRS
Islam Muslims feels about homosexuals the way conservative Christians do. That's why the queers for Palestine is beyond stupid.
If you try being an out queer in Gaza or the West Bank....well let's just say IF you were able to escape with your life you would be glad for the "oppression" and "discrimination" in the United States.
If that girl had made a similar art project with pages fom a Quran, by now she would have spent some time in fear for her life and that of her family because some Muslim cleric would have issued a Fatwa for her death.
In addition I am sure there would be a statement from the White House Press Secretary condemning her for her "hateful act" toward Islam.
Besides all that, I think teachers should TRY to just teach stick to teaching their course material. But this whole gender ideology and pronouns thing is beyond ridiculous. Conceivably out of a class of 20 you could have 20 kids all with different pronouns... how could you ever keep it straight.
Once again, if the teacher was Muslim and had a problem with the pronouns or gays or trans people or whatever, no one would say anything except it's part of his faith and his right to feel how he feels. But since the teachers are Christian they are fair game.
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Lady Mutt Cat
Palestine isn't just about Islam. There are Palestinian Christians as well. The struggle against the occupation isn't just led by Hamas. Although Hamas, a faith-based Muslim organization, is the predominant organization in Gaza, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) is still active in the West Bank. The PFLP is a nonsectarian Marxist group.
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Russel A. Kester
Lady Cat, the state of Palestine has never existed. It was a label used to describe an area much the same as we do today to describe different neighborhoods in large cities. Before the United Nations returned all of what we call Israel and Jordan to the Jewish people the area was part of the Ottoman empire with very few inhabitants who were Jewish, Christian, amd Muslim. But a rather desolate land. It was Great Britain that made this mess when it promised this same area to a wondering group of Arabs in exchange for their help in resisting the Ottoman Empire. The United Nations then threw the resulting conflict into Great Britain's lap essentially saying, you created the problem you solve it. Which it did by creating Israel for the Jews and Jordan for the Arabs. But some Arabs insisted they wanted it all and went to war with the Jews. These are they who we now call Palestinians who are actually Arabs like the Jordanians.
Finally, this is about Islam, because Islam believes that once a land is taken over by Islam it must always remain in the hands of Muslims. Since the Ottoman Empire had conquered it in the past followers of Islam insist it must remain in Muslim hands and that is why Arab nations refused to acknowledge Israeli's right to exist and have bowed to destroy it.
So this is not occupied land by the Israelis. It is land the so-called Palestinians have wrongly claimed as theirs.
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Lady Mutt Cat
Yes. Palestine existed and will again. Your absurd beginning means that nothing else you have to say is worth any respect.
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Russel A. Kester
Lady Mutt Cat, I succinctly outlined the history of that area going back quite far. I didn't see a historical analysis in your response. What a shame. But please do tell us who was the first president of Palestine and when was he elected? In what city were its government buildings? When was it first recognized by the United Nations? Nothing predates Yasser Arafat who became its first president in 1989. That date isn't exactly ancient history dear. My comments were factually accurate.
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Daniel Gray
Nope sorry it didnt. There are no records of it existing before the UN created it. And yet there are plenty of records clearly showing Israel existed right where your mythical country is. And name me the capitol city of this mythical country. Name me what their GNP is. Name me ONE leader before 1942. And if it existed as you claim then WHY are they going through so much fuss to try and get the UN to recognize them? if they existed then they should already be recognized as a country.
Seems you are tying yourself into knots and failing to justify your fantasies.
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Pastor George Day
Daniel Gray,
What are you mumbling about? Israel is recognized by the UN and has a history of claimed sovereignty. We have a proven record of three kingly lines: Davidic, Samaritan, and Maccabean.
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Pastor George Day
Lady Mutt Cat,
I'm afraid Russell's comment on Palestine was correct. It would help if you did your research.
They have no history of claimed sovereignty before the formation of Israel. The name was birthed as a mockery against the Jews that were deported from the land in AD 70 - Syria Palestina = Philistine land of Syria.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
Then why until 1994 did the Holy See not recognise Israel?
I am of the opinion that Palestinians are the same as the ancient Philistines. It is a resistance to God's plans that Satan is using through modern-day political wounds.
The land belongs to Israel by divine right.
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Beth
While it is against the law to fire anyone - including a teacher - for holding or failing to hold a certain religious belief, expounding on one's own beliefs in the classroom of students of any, every, and no religious beliefs is prohibited in a public school.
As far as extracurricular activities in such a school, it's somewhat shaky ground. GLBTQ+ groups may espouse notions against some people's beliefs. Yet, the whole issue has nothing to do with religion - people are gay in regions and nations which heavily penalize it, or support it, or are indifferent - they cannot just decide to stop being gay! Should we ban organizations which support such students because someone might take offense? Other organizations promoting voluntary extracurricular activities, including the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and the Good News Clubs have been permitted to hold events on public school property.
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Pastor George Day
Beth,
We need to clarify that according to Christianity, being gay or being non-binary (= with gender dysphoria or intersex condition) isn't a sin. The sin is when you act on it by seeking same-sex genital activity or chopping your body (as well as taking hormones).
The Bible is full of eunuchs in a positive light, and even Jesus said some are born that way.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
nobody can stop another from exercising their beliefs but...keep it at home. no one wants to hear that silly nonsense at work about some fantasy cloud clown he demands people do one thing or another.
the public practice of religion is what should be banned, this way no one is offended. if I can't drop my pants and crap on the city sidewalk or in an office cubicle then why should someone's religious beliefs have a higher standing? in both cases it's the same thing; someone pooping out their opinion and expecting...nay, demanding that everyone else respect, approve and applaud their warm, steaming pile of religious belief.
Nope, ban ALL public expression of religion, keep it at your "place of worship", home or basement S&M chamber but not out where the rest of us have to see and hear it. For DOG's sake people, have some respect for those of us who are not delusion, do not suffer from cognitive dissonance or hallucinations.
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ServantOfJudgement
I think that's the idea JJ. The Christian teacher wants the ridiculous and delusional pronouns to stay out of the classroom. Most Christians have a tough time bathing in the lunacy these days.
Just leave all the dumb talk at home like you said, including the belief that you evolved from seaweed and snail snot or whatever you think you came from, maybe a dog.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
love it, anti-science. that just rounds out your bill of not-so-goods. of course, seaweed and snail snot sounds silly, as opposed to what, believing some cloud clown made you from mud and sticks? essh how are you able to get by on a day-to-day basis all the while disagreeing with gravity, blood cells, medicine, aeronautics, moon landings, etc.
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ServantOfJudgement
Believing in funky dust struck by trippy lightning in a pool of goo we can't find to create a flawlessly self replacing lifeform that evolves it's self to the point of making space ships and ice cream is not sound science. It's a belief that will never be proven. You must believe as I must and there's nothing anybody can do about it.
I want sound science taught in school, not ridiculous pronouns. Any why not, history if filled with Christian scientists that have improved all of our lives.
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Michael Hunt
You don't want sound science, SOJ, you want Christian nationalism dressed up as "scientific evidence". You're being willfully ignorant of evolutionary science in one breath and advocating for "sound science" in the next. The Christian hive mind you're stuck in has blinded you to actual scientific evidence.
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Pastor George Day
Michael Hunt,
What you claim as scientific evidence is a mere scientific opinion that keeps changing n detail. Darwin was mentally impaired. Check on Google.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
believing in some cloud clown who decides to turn mud pies into his fawning, sniveling pets and here you are, proud and loud. that you don't accept science, don't understand it or evolution is what makes you who you are, and yet, still proud and loud. admit it servant you've given up free choice and instead have decided to shut down your brain and let some 2000 years of fables and fairy tales govern how you live. that you teach (although to be fair, it is only a community college) is a wonder and more wonderous is what possible topic could you teach, outside of 'religion' with any skill or accuracy? math? music? knitting?
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ServantOfJudgement
Lol jj
I wouldn't say I'm proud, just confident. I'm an automation expert, it's my day job. Nights I teach ac theory dc theory robotics motor controls and plc programming. I live and breathe logic and science all day long. Good science, science you can prove. Now go dig up your funky goo and show the word. Alas, you cannot, you must believe, you must have faith in your god as I must in mine.
Did you know you share over 95 percent of the DNA of a pig and about 70 percent of a frog while only sharing 2 percent of Neanderthal DNA.
It shows. You don't act like a caveman much but you sure do jump around and oink a lot.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Dr. Father JJ,
Why do your comments have to be so mean?
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Dr. Father JJ,
I believe in Adam and Eve, and I also believe in gravity. What's so wrong about it?
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Dr. Father JJ,
Would we do the same for those who force us to refer to them with fake pronouns?
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
No one wins. Your religion guides/controls your life. Your religion doesn't guide or control anyone else's. Your religion is like a penis. You can be proud of it, but don't slap me in the face with it.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Religion is being weaponized to bend people’s will to their own. In the first story the painting is NOT antichristian as it’s portrayed. The painting shows the struggle a person has when it comes to their faith. That God doesn’t love them because of who and what they are.
In the second story… what in this teachers’ faith says she’s not allowed to address a Mr. as Miss? I must have missed that part in the Bible. Is it really against their faith or is this an excuse to purposefully say, I don’t like this kid because they offend me. I can say God tells me I don’t have to put up with you.
This is why I’ve begun to despise organized religion. I thought freedom of religion meant you can worship how you choose, but they have corrupted that message to say I can treat you differently because you don’t believe what I do. I don’t have to serve you in my establishment. My religion says I can dismiss your existence. We are heading in the wrong direction when it’s okay to teach children shame.
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Pastor George Day
James Riggle-Johnson,
I am so sorry you missed that passage in the Bible. Let me quote it for, you so you won't miss it again. Here you go:
Deuteronomy 22:5: A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.
Shalom :-)
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James Riggle-Johnson
The Lord, our God did not write that, Pastor George.
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Pastor George Day
James Riggle-Johnson,
So you pick and choose what's in the Bible?
2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Version
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
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James Mounts
I find myself agreeing with both decisions. In Virginia the board decided to allow a student to exercise her free-speech rights. Good decision. In California the board decided to punish a teacher to try to force speech, and the court rightly smacked them down. Good decision. Free speech includes the right not to speak. One's right to pretend to be whatever one wishes ends at trying to force others to go along with the nonsense..
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Nicholas J Page
LGBTQ bashing again We all have a right to live our lives the way we need to not be dictated to.I am getting sick and tired of all this bickering.Im a hetrosexual male but I will support anyone.I have stated before that I will stop blogging if this carries on The LGBTQ are not doing anything wrong it's just people who are out to bash the people.God loves every one.So grow up people of America and worry about war's and other disasters
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ServantOfJudgement
Would you entertain a furry student in your classroom Nicholas? I'm being serious. Not sure how far things in your neck of the wood are but we've got some in our local community college where I teach nights.
Would you scratch a whimpering furry to calm it in your classroom or let it bring a bowl of milk to lick from? That's where we're at with this bro.
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Aron Mark Doherty
You Sir are a liar and have just lost all credibility in my eyes. This is not true and utterly made up. It's parroted junk and while I didn't always agree with you I always felt you were speaking YOUR mind, now I know that was not the case and you were speaking someone elses junk that works for you and your agenda. shame on you 'bro'
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ServantOfJudgement
Aaron, not sure what you think I lied about. Teaching or the furry syndrome that's moving through schools today but not sure which one. Maybe both. I personally won't teach with one in the room. It's not likely one would pick up the trade I teach, they would never get hired. One my colleagues did however let one in her classroom where she teaches math. She waud it was a cat. Purring and licking itself as felines sometimes do.
I'm glad you thought I've been speaking MY mind this whole time, things haven't changed.
Take care, and try to be nice even if you don't like what you've read.
My question still stands as is for Nicholas.
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Christine Gladhill
Purring and licking oneself in the middle of a classroom is distractive behavior and a teacher would have the right to ask for it to stop or be removed from the classroom. Asking somebody to refer to you as he she they them Sir madam whatever is hardly distracting.
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Lady Mutt Cat
Furry syndrome? KMN
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ServantOfJudgement
Lady Mutt Cat
Syndrome: A group of symptoms that collectively indicate or characterize a disease, psychological disorder, or other abnormal condition.
A person licking themselves like a cat in class is an abnormal condition is it not?
We ought not ask our teachers and students to endure that.
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
Was that an emotional support animal? In that case, you have to allow it, I'm afraid. But the person with special needs must also be respectful of the surroundings. I know because I have registered my cat as ESA. I know how that works.
You have the right to refuse entry if the person does not respect boundaries... at least in the UK.
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Thomas P. Davis
I can't speak for where he is at, but we have the same here in Ohio, the school needed to install litter boxes in the restrooms, and they sit in the cafeteria licking their hands and cleaning their faces.
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Russel A. Kester
Wow. Unbelievable, simply unbelievable. Thank you for sharing..
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Robert James Ruhnke
That’s a BS hoax. But y’all will believe absurdity so you can get away with atrocity.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna51439
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Michael Hunt
That's literally unbelievable because it's untrue...
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Amber Fry
And yet nobody has been able to produce any proof of any of that.
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ServantOfJudgement
There's a story out of Utah where students walked out on protest of "unleashed furries"(my phrasing). They were pretty disruptive I've read.
In my opinion, legitimate LGB issues are set back when this sort of thing is forced upon society or public society might be a better phrase.
I've learned from the LGB community here at UCL legit struggles you've overcome. I respect that. This stuff and absurd pronouns do not help a single bit.
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Russel A. Kester
SOJ, I too saw the video of those students who walked out. And it seemed that at least one of the students behaving badly and bizzarly was the child of someone in administration. I think it was either the principal or vice principal.
I wholeheartedly agree that legit LGB issues suffer from such activities. Thank you.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Oh good gods. LGBTQ+ issues are a whole community thing, not gate watched facade y’all are trying to establish. We suffer, have suffered because a small minority within our community has become corrupt, selfish, and highly disillusioned, a group of straight wannabe/affirming LGB radicals.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, we spoke of LGB persons not the other people represented by the growing list of letters and symbols. And we spoke the truth. Whatever are the personal issues of these other letters people, they have nothing in common with the LGBs.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester
That's not true. Gender Dysphoria and homosexuality or bisexuality are just labels. They merely indicate higher to lower degrees of the same identity wound.
I have gender dysphoria and live my life as a nonbinary chaste man. I know what I'm talking about.
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Russel A. Kester
George, while I refrain from speaking of your particular experience, I will say that in general gender dysphoria and sexuality are two separate categories or things. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with an identity wound. We who are lesbian or gay are perfectly comfortable with ourselves and suffer no sense of dysphoria whatsoever as we are comfortable with our biological sex and its associated gender and we relish the same in our partners. I am gay and know what I'm talking about.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
I hear you. Of course, I disagree, but that's OK. In my opinion, heterosexuality is the norm. Anything else is a symptom of a deep wound that cuts to the core of our identity as men and women in God's creation.
Having said that, I don't wish to refrain people from making the best of their lives as it is.
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Daniel Lee Minchew
This B.S. is where we are headed as a society......lick themselves???? Unbelievable
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Pastor George Day
Daniel Lee Minchew.
... and you believe hearsay?
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Michael Hunt
These examples only exist in your head, not in reality. Furries are not lapping milk out of bowls or asking to use litter boxes. Such suggestions are nothing but disinformation pushed by the far-right to unfairly demonize something they don't understand and won't make any effort to understand.
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Robert Gagnon
LGB is a sexual preference, and nothing more than that. I'm straight, but tell me I can't date redheads and I'd have an issue with that. If it was illegal I'd date them in secret. Trans don't like what they are, and will damage themselves medically or chemically to change it. Non binary are unstructured socially, they don't pick a team while fearing labels, but label everyone else. Pronouns are for kids online. They/them is plural and does not apply to an individual. There are male and female gender roles, any point in between these two markers are possible. We can all agree on these facts. When a male wants to be a female or visa versa, they seem to pick the furthest sex/gender from what they are born. They go to extremes to be as opposite as possible, and actually claim to become that sex/gender they emulate. This is not a rational mind, or a healthy state of being. It has no place around normal children's minds. If these progressive ideals are so great, then why the 4 to 5 times suicide rate of those that entertain them. And don't claim stigma and persecution, when these people stigmatize themselves while playing martyr.
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Pastor George Day
Robert Gagnon,
I have been medically diagnosed with gender dysphoria, which is indeed a medical condition. Due to that, I have access to services for people who are emotionally impaired (aka with invisible disability), including my emotional support cat, and access to disabled toilets.
Are you a medical professional? Before you make statements like that, you need to get a reality check on what people who are affected by this condition go through.
I agree that the trans agenda to normalize this is wrong. I choose not to mutilate my body, hence I a classified as nonbinary. Transgender is someone who chooses to transition. So yet again, you mix pronouns (which are a political agenda) with the treatment of a medical condition.
Yes, I have chosen to be nonbinary. But that is simple because I did not want to emulate the opposite sex. Scientifically speaking, it is impossible to change your gender. However, I still need to express the feminine side inside of me to treat my mental health - and I am so on antidepressants because of the anxiety caused by gender dysphoria.
So, before you open your judgment mouth: THINK! It isn't that hard!
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Theresa C. Marquess
Arguing the pros and cons to religion vs LGBTQ,etc. is to argue a losing battle. We each have our own thoughts on both subjects. I disagree with neither and wish them all well. Prayers and good wishes, Blessed be!
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but the 1st Amendment clearly says you cannot pass laws or make regulations that violate a persons religious beliefs. That means the school system cannot fire anyone who refuses to follow such an idiotic idea and they should not have made it in the first place.
Just like you cannot fire someone for refusing to follow the christian faith, you cannot fire someone for refusing to follow islamic or pagen or santanic faiths. And if you think you can enforce it, you had better look at SCOTUS decision in Church of Lukumi Babalu inc v City of Hialeah 508 US 520 1993 where the SCOTUS said that "NO city school or form of government can force a person to violate or ignore their religious teachings."
In short it makes no difference what the LBGTQ groups want, they still have to go by federal law and if they dont want to, then they will be slapped down by the same law.
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Robert James Ruhnke
You also cannot violate a person’s right to self expression either, Grey. Religion doesn’t get precedence over self expression. By that logic you can’t arrest a religious person if they kill someone in the name of their faith, because it ordered them too. You an I both know of the clauses in the Bible that call for the death of LGBTQ+ people, Grey, and how many right wingers want to return to such practices. While the others wish to push conversion therapy. Either way they try to erase people who don’t conform to the outdated stagnant cookie cutter lifestyle y’all subscribe too.
The First Amendment guarantees freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition. It forbids Congress from both promoting one religion over others and also restricting an individual’s religious practices. It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely. It also guarantees the right of citizens to assemble peaceably and to petition their government.
Meaning that there are limits to how far a person can push their religion on others. SCOTUS change. They can and have been voted out. This current batch need gone because they’ve already shown they’re not impartial and are extremely corrupt in their biases for the religious right. Allowing too many right wing Christians and other right wing religious extremists to choke people with their faiths. Equally a person cannot choke another with their self expression. LGBTQ+ protesting and petitioning for their rights to be protected and accepted are not choking people with their right to self expression. That’s just right wing Christian’s playing victim, pearl clutching, and projection of their own misbehavior. As always Grey, you play with a stacked deck or deck missing half your cards. Federal Law can and are changed all the time. Y’all call for civil war every time you don’t get your ways, nothing more than a hollow threat. Hiding your bigotry behind the court system and Bible is just how pathetic y’all are.
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ServantOfJudgement
Do we create a new government branch to approve pronouns? If my student demands I refer to him as glithglothkothgal and it's a government approved pronoun then I have to use it or lose my job? Sounds like an easy way to get a teacher fired.
Let's just make it easy and stick with the ones we know and we're taught by schools then tested by the government.
Let's not get carried away and set astray.
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Robert James Ruhnke
If you can pronounce eastern or Western European names, you can pronounce that made up straw man argument’s nam/pronoun too. Y’all get teachers fired for trying to teach evolution, sex Ed, non abstinence based courses, or anything your superstitious mind comes up with. We are already astray. Have been For a very long time, but lunatics profit and gain from it, so you don’t want to lose your selfish privileges, SOJ. You prolly shouldn’t have that job. The answer is no, there doesn’t need to be a govt. branch, but do respect a person’s pronouns if you expect any kind of respect returned.
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Pastor George Day
Robert James Ruhnke,
This pronouns thing is pure nonsense!
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? then explain why states like California and Colorado and Washington State try and pass laws they know for a fact violate a persons religion and then turn around and claim its state law, like that makes any difference.
And first off you cant "vote out" a SCOTUS member. So I dont know where you got that idea from
Now as for LBGTQ petitioning? Puh-Leaze. They threaten and when it does not fit their agenda then they sue people. The 1st says you cant do this no matter what you are being told or believe. The sooner you get that inside your head the better off you will be
And as usual, when things dont go your way and you are proved wrong then you stomp your foot and start ripping hankies.
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Melaine Rae Thompson
The constitution also states there is a separation of church and state. So, six way and half a dozen the other. Personally, if she didn’t want to follow the guidelines of the school she should have applied for a job at a christian school. 🤷♀️
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Daniel Gray
Nope sorry, there is nothing in the Constitution that mentions or says anything about separation of church and state. I has not been in the constitution since it was passed as supreme law in 1787. The very first mention of this myth was in a letter by Jefferson a good 15 years later in 1802 and by that time you would have needed a constitutional amendment to add or remove anything and according to the records in the US Library of Congress, there has never been any such amendment filed nor passed. And in Article 3 (powers of the Judiciary) it does not now nor ever has given the judiciary the authority to interpret anything. And the 10th Amendment clearly states that unless the Constitution SPECIFICALLY grants you an authority or power, then you dont have it and never will.
So your post does not make a lick of sense either historically or legally or constitutionally. It might be better if you were to forget that nonsense you were taught about this and actually read what the Constitution says. Just sayin'
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Russel A. Kester
In the first story, I can understand the school's concern if it is wondering how it would handle someone using pages from the Koran in the same way. But my answer is still the same for pages from either the Bible and the Koran, this is art and expresses the artist's feelings. Leave it up and don't hinder similar expressions in the future.
In the second story, I don't think an employer should have a right to force an employee to violate their religious beliefs without just cause. Did the school have just cause? No. It doesn't have the right to tell it's employees to lie because doing so violates the employees moral principles. While certain pronouns might be preferred, that should not be tatamount to required or mandatory. This is particularly difficult here because children are center stage and no one should want to willingly hurt a child. But sometimes truth does hurt. Regrettably. Some might rightly argue that allowing a child to continue believing a lie about themselves is more damaging and ultimately hurtful. It would have been interesting to have heard more on the court's reasoning in its ruling.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
There is no “lie” in being transgender.
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Russel A. Kester
Elizabeth, to the contrary, there is no truth in being transgendered from the perspectives of science, people's personal beliefs, or reality.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
You cannot correctly include science or reality in that claim. Science is more than happy to provide you with a plethora of its discoveries on the subject if you read medical journals, and doctors are constantly being updated on the very real medical research being conducted to understand the condition.
People's personal beliefs are the only realm in which their opinions about transgendered people's lived experience carry any weight. And the same goes for flat earthers. They are free to believe whatever they want, but reality nor science hold any sway there.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Thank you for your outlook Ari. I welcome more open minded thinkers like yourself. Very refreshing.
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Russel A. Kester
Ari, I've had numerous exchanges on this blog showing that science only recognizes male and female. Since science is the basis for our shared understanding of reality and science acknowledges only two genders corresponding to their respective sexes, yes, I can include science and reality along with personal beliefs.
Please do cite any medical publications which say otherwise. But be sure they are not referencing the study done by Dr. John Money as he falsified his data and lied as to the actual results of his research as testified in court by his two subjects, the Reimer twins, who he sexually molested. He is completely discredited but much of the medical community accepts his so-called research without having all of the information. He was determined to propagandize the idea that gender was a social construct which went down in the flames of pride, dishonesty, and moral turpitude.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
Your notion of science is pretty junior elementary!
I am on medication and therapy due to anxiety generated by gender dysphoria. I have a medical diagnosis that says I am in dissonance with my biological gender. This is science, my junior friend!
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
I'm afraid I have to disagree. The truth is in having gender dysphoria, is a medical condition.
Whereas transgender people choose to transition, nonbinary ones do not, yet live their lives expressing their perceived gender. This is about mental health and treatment.
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Pastor George Day
Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox,
Yes, there is if you are trying to reinforce the idea that they are really of the opposite sex. It is impossible, scientifically speaking, to change gender.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
Addressing a person in the manner they wish to be addressed, be it pronoun or name, is simple courtesy.
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Russel A. Kester
Mike, should one allow an immoral act in the name of courtesy? Our military was guilty of this, "In his last phone call home, Lance Cpl. Gregory Buckley Jr. told his father what was troubling him: From his bunk in southern Afghanistan, he could hear Afghan police officers sexually abusing boys they had brought to the base." https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html and private contractors hired by our embassy participated in such acts, "In September 2009, the State Department fired eight security guards at the U.S. embassy from the security contractor ArmorGroup North America for what a watchdog group described as a "Lord of the Flies" environment at the guards' living quarters. Allegations included lewd behavior and sexual misconduct." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wikileaks-contractors-hired-afghan-dancing-boys/
Doing something just for the sake of being courteous can have damaging consequences. We guard against such potentialities by following our conscience at all times under all circumstances. Lying just to be courteous is not an appropriate reason. Doing so is a slippery slope.
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Michael Hunt
Talk about a false equivalency fallacy. Addressing someone by their preferred name or pronoun harms no one. Allowing sexual assault to occur harms lots of people. Comparing using preferred pronouns to instances of sexual abuse and misconduct is incredibly disingenuous.
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Daniel Gray
then why get all bent out of shape when its not done as you want. If it effects no one as you claim, then there is no harm to ignore it now is there?
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Russel A. Kester
Michael, the point is that adults allow children to be harmed in the name of courtesy which was the basis of Mike's argument. So, where does one draw the line? Two of my examples were intentionally extreme to show where such thinking has lead our own government. That was the point. So no, even a little lie just to be courteous is not ethical and can lead step by step to allowing the unthinkable which I supported with actual examples from those who should have known better. And if that little lie about a child's gender leads eventually to permanent disfigurement of the child who believed the adults that is also unethical. Stop it in its tracks and speak the truth as the teacher in the article did.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
I'm unsure what point your pointless comment is trying to make!
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Mike Eggleston,
I would agree with you, but it ought not be compulsory.
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Lady Mutt Cat
I want to know why it is acceptable for someone with a penis to believe in being a girl while it isn't acceptable for Rachel Dolezal to believe that she's black. If one is acceptable, then the other should be, also.
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Pastor George Day
Lady Mutt Cat,
Because the former is a symptom of a medical condition called gender dysphoria, whereas the latter is mere delusion. There is no such condition in medicine regarding perceived race!
Just common sense when needed :-)
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Colleen McAllister
The entire issue is ridiculous. Unless you intend to have intercourse with a person then their gender or sexual preference should make no difference to you.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I've long thought that what one does in the privacy of their intimacy is none of my business, so long as the relationship is mutually consensual, age appropriate and causes no harm. But please, keep it private.
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This is nonsense. As a man with gender dysphoria myself, I can tell that the traumas from my school days are anything but the use of correct pronouns. Awareness is needed but within reason!