The Texas legislature just passed a controversial bill which will allow schools across Texas to hire chaplains in addition to (or in lieu of) traditional school counselors.
Should SB 763 be signed into law – which experts say it almost certainly will be – Texas students may soon be receiving some spiritual guidance when they walk into the school counselor’s office.
This change could happen early as the next school year. It will also be funded courtesy of the taxpayer: the bill would require chaplains to be on payroll, and not volunteers.
Critics of the bill say it is a blatant violation of the separation of church and state, and argue that it is just another attempt by those holding Christian beliefs to inject God into schools by any means necessary.
Meanwhile, supporters argue that the bill will make schools safer by directly addressing the mental health crisis facing youth across America – and filling a much-needed spiritual gap in our education system.
Should chaplains be on public school payroll?
Chaplains Come to School
Sponsors of the bill say that it’s all about giving school districts "every tool that we can in the toolbox" to tackle mental health problems like anxiety and depression plaguing youth today.
Per the bill, chaplains will not be required to meet the educational standards of school counselors. Currently, school counselors in Texas are required to be certified by the State Board for Education, hold a master’s degree, as well as have two years of classroom experience, a standard which chaplains will not be required to meet.
Chaplains, however, will be required to pass a background check, cannot have a sex offense conviction, and must hold an endorsement from a religious body. They must also meet all US Department of Defense chaplaincy requirements.
The bill was spearheaded by a group called the National School Chaplain Association (NSCA), an arm of Mission Generation.
Rocky Malloy, that group’s CEO, says that despite concerns to the contrary, school chaplains won’t work to proselytize Christianity to students. “Chaplains operate within an individual’s belief and convictions,” he argued. “They are not working to convert people to religion.”
But critics point out that a glance at the social media presence of the groups behind the bill seems to indicate that their primary focus is indeed on putting Christianity front and center in the lives of young people.
On their website, NSCA describes themselves as a ‘Christian chaplain ministry,’ and one Mission Generation YouTube video claims that “there is a fantastic opportunity to bring God’s word to millions of children through public and private schools,” arguing schools are “the largest network of children on the planet.”
Christian Nationalist Indoctrination?
Since the bill’s inception, opponents have dubbed this an obvious violation of the separation of church and state. They say that it’s yet another not-so-covert attempt to inject Christianity into public schools.
"I worry that this bill will lead to Christian nationalists infiltrating our public schools and indoctrinating our students," said one politician in opposition.
The legislation is one of several bills making their way through the Texas legislature that some say are attempts to inject Christianity into schools. Another would require public schools to set aside time every day for students to pray or read religious texts.
And yet another would mandate the display of the Ten Commandments in every public school, as we posted about recently:
The chaplain bill’s supporters, however, say this isn’t an attempt to inject Christianity into schools that critics have painted it as. They insist that schools will be free to choose whether they want to hire chaplains or not, and that these religious counselors could be of any faith, not necessarily just Christian.
What is your take? Is this a win for religious freedom and school safety, as supporters argue, or are critics right that this appears to be a serious violation of the separation of church and state?
129 comments
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Raymond Furr
I believe it is a very good idea to bring God back and the school again it will change over things be less crime in school. Bring back the school prayer
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John Alex Paxson
People forget this is a secular country ... Just because it says one nation under God... it does not say what religion god is associated with ... and furthermore, our beliefs are personal and is not incorporated with our government or and other public organization.
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Paul Edward Nunis
Meanwhile, proposed legislation allowing 14 year olds to serve alcohol in bars late at night, without parental permission... is 'God's Will' to greedy politicians.
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Krystal Marie Weber
i am not christian, my kids are not christian, my grandkids are not christian. we all live in Tx. so basically tx is saying we only care about christians . what about the rest of the people.
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Kathleen Anne OBrien
How would you like it if a Muslim cleric counseled your daughters and sons?
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Kathleen Anne OBrien
NO. Separation of church and state. I've seen too many "Christian" Pastors try to have sex with 16 yr old girls.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
Obviously there’s not enough child molestation going on for their liking…gotta get some of that action directly from the source.
It’s really surreal watching the hands of time get broken backwards.
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ServantOfJudgement
Right because teachers, coaches, principals, janitors and teachers aids never ever, not ever have sex with kids. Never ever ever. Well, except every day of the week I guess, other than that, only Christian pastors get busy with kids.
Yawn.
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Paul Edward Nunis
So will these 'chaplains' be passing the collection plate in school... in between counseling young potential suicides, abuse victims, etc.?
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Austin B Beamer
Countless times one should apologize for being wrong! But we've got to stop apologizing for being in the right in Christ Jesus. Where's the students who are no greater than the Teacher?! The ones who understand they will be hated by the World. Understanding our Jesus was hated for the Kingdoms sake as well. We've got to stop blending in to this wrong way of living and thinking! And stop apologizing for living and thinking the right way. To each their own. But don't believe society today will make their own, mine!
JESUS #1
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Paul Edward Nunis
The US military requires their chaplains to minister impartially to all denominations that serve and not proselytise their own faith. Outside of the military and police, chaplaincy certification comes overwhelmingly from a single establishment of religion. But the lawsuits won't come out of the politician's pockets.
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Anne 'Arie
I think it's a bad idea and could potentially open the door for unwanted religious instructions in schools. In the mid 1970s, teachers were teaching kids religious things in grade school that had my son and other kids looking for the Christmas star and believing that Lazarus was turned into a leopard. Just as with sex, little kids often need less information, not more. Schools should stick to reading, writing and arithmetic and leave the extra things to their family or better yet, encouragement to read they things they are most interested in after they are taught to read.
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Austin B Beamer
They're not kids, they're Children and young people. Who need proper direction and assistance to live a well done life. No other Faith teaches the quality and caliber of treating others and yourself like the Word of God and The gospel of Jesus Christ do. Good job Texas in attempting to bring some assemblance of God order in your state and communities. I hope the foolish ones haven't made too much of an uphill battle to climb. The Lord God be with you and your efforts in Jesus Name. Amen
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Marion Wolfe
Shameful how many people are completely fine with pedophiles being welcomed into Texas schools. You should be ashamed of yourself for cheering on Christian child predators.
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Paul Edward Nunis
Bearing false witness.
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Brien
YOUR OPINION does NOT dictate how my children should be taught. I say how my children are taught NOT you. I have no problem FIGHTING for my children's well being. If you wish your children to be taught beliefs by someone else, there are private schools that will do that for you. Keep your treacherous beliefs away from my kids. Understand?
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Ronald Edward Howlett
I see sooo many comments. I don't see anyone orchestrating where, and how TO PUT YOUR VOTE TO USE!!
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Paul Edward Nunis
'You' don't get to vote on legislative bills, and elected politicians don't care about you.
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Brien
What vote are you talking about? Since when did my parental duties come up for vote? I teach my children right from wrong, school teaches reading, righting, arithmetic, and history and they get that wrong alot of the time. Your so called vote allowed schools to take away parents rights. This is not a vote, it is a demand... Keep your beliefs to your own home and I shall do the same. Stop voting for things that are an absolute.
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Ronald Edward Howlett
I am a Canadian and would love to Run for the Republican Party, But, They DON'T SELL MY SIZE IN A CLOWN SUIT. American Christians (white supremacist not withstanding) have forgotten what Christ said about Separating CHURCH (GOD!) and State. Many of the Republican party professes to be Christian. and so many BELIEVING Christians are standing by quietly., allowing YOUR COUNTRY to be overrun by all the evils in the TEMPLE. The Motto of the US is no longer God Bless America. It has now become the CRY in the wilderness GOD HELP AMERICA! I Pray each day the AMERICAN CHRISTIANS WILL WAKE UP. Living so close to Sodom and Gomorrah is too close for me.
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Mark A. Bartholomew Sr.
Ronald Since you are Canadian your opinion is noted and excused. Thank you for reaffirming my belief that Canadians are as misguided today as they were a half century ago.
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Thomas A. Follis
I’d rather have a bunch of Chaplains as school counselors as opposed to a bunch of Drag Queens at a Dodgers game. Or anywhere else for that matter.
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Mark A. Bartholomew Sr.
We have God on our money and are one nation under him, why would we not allow him in our schools? Freedom of choice is still the right of all beings regardless of religious affiliation. If parents raise their children properly having agents of the church in schools should not even be an issue for discussion.
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Sophia Soto
Our country has been trying to find out how to get the help for our children, they have tried almost every type of methods, I'm sure they are going to see better results ever.. sometimes it's not the belief or the faith that gives hope.but it's what is inside a families personal home, that they fear of being exposed is what there reasons are for being a negative view of something better for at least My child can have a chance at something good.this is just My view on this topic not to offend anyone ♥️🙏♥️🙏♥️🙏 ( Jude1; 18-25 is the word that My mighty king 👑 has placed in my heart ❤️
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Sophia Soto
Our country has been trying to find out how to get the help for our children, they have tried almost every type of methods, I'm sure they are going to see better results ever.. sometimes it's not the belief or the faith that gives hope.but it's what is inside a families personal home, that they fear of being exposed is what there reasons are for being a negative view of something better my child.
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Rev. Jim Sutton
To me, there are two issues most people are talking about without really knowing what they're talking about. First, most people have no idea what a "chaplain" is and what one does. Typically, a "chaplain" is a MILITARY designation for a man of the cloth, just like "padre." And, as the last paragraph of the article states, chaplains represent most faiths, including non-Christian. Here's a quote from an online source: "Chaplains now represent a variety of faiths, ranging from Judaism to Buddhism, and they often serve diverse constituencies by holding multi-faith or nondenominational services. Chaplains are employed in a variety of settings, including the military, parishes, hospitals, prisons, universities, and schools." Second, is the supposed "separation of church and state." I say "supposed" because there is no such thing, not even in the First Amendment of The Bill of Rights (read it for yourselves and don't rely on what other people claim). All it says is that the U.S. can neither establish a national religion nor support any religion over any other. If there was a real "separation of church and state," then why would multiple government entities open their meetings with clergy giving a prayer, blessing, or invocation? The only way that there might be a "separation of church and state" is if Texas has a law, or whatever, stating as such. To my knowledge, Texas doesn't. Plus, the law is NOT demanding that a chaplain be hired, it just gives the option without the school/district having to go through all sorts of rigmarole to have a chaplain on campus. Let's stop the knee-jerk reactions and actually know what you're talking about before you start talking.
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John Condron
Well, Jim, you start by saying that "a "chaplain" is a MILITARY designation for a man of the cloth." (Are you not aware that there are female chaplains?). But then you say that "Chaplains are employed in a variety of settings, including the military, parishes, hospitals, prisons, universities, and schools." So I guess "chaplain" is NOT a "military designation."
Then you go on to argue that "there is no such thing" as "separation of church and state." Apparently, you are a fan of pseudohistory, such as the works of David Barton. Do some actual research, Jim. Read some books by actual historians. It'll be an eye-opener for you!
Multiple governmental bodies open their meetings with prayers, because they ignore the Constitution when it suits their fancy. Of course, the courts have forced such groups to allow representatives of other faiths to participate; many of these supposedly fair-minded christians have responded by stopping the practice altogether.
You are right that this law is not requiring school districts to hire chaplains; they are only making it possible for districts to hire far less qualified people (i.e., no requirement for training in mental health) INSTEAD of school counselors. This, in spite of the fact that these same politicians always claim that we have a "mental health crisis" in America (because they don't want to admit that the real problem is guns.).
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Paul Edward Nunis
'Chaplain' within the military is a specific occupational designation and title, as anyone who served would know first hand.
The fact that other organizations also adopt the term, does not support your claim.
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Brien
Look, bottom line, keep religious beliefs, no matter how you wish to label them, AWAY from my children in public schools! Please, save me from to whole military respect speech, guess what? I served MY county too. So let me spell this out for you... Keep YOUR beliefs away from MY children. Parents can go to the school and inform the "counselors" they are NOT allowed to speak to their children without parental representation.
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April Linda Wiles
I personally think it's an idea worth developing into action. I've worked in a school at the middle and high school level. Kids will talk to anyone as long as they are provided with an environment they feel comfortable enough to express themselves. Sadly the thing is most abused and neglected kids don't talk in an effort to protect their family unit. If a child grows up with fear based religious teachings such as good things happen to good people, bad things happen to bad people, they can often feel the neglect and abuse experienced was/is deserved often coming to the false idea God hates them. If you have a Chaplin that is open, non judgmental and offers a reflection of God's love regardless of knowing of existence of abuse the hidden child may feel supported enough in their own personal faith to break those toxic cycles taught within their family unit. Unfortunately, abuse and neglect not only damage the mind of a child but also the spirit.
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John Condron
And if you have a child who, like about a third of Americans, has been a victim of religious trauma, a chaplain who is NOT " open, non judgmental and offer(ing) a reflection of God's love," that child might be further traumatized.
Here's a crazy idea! How about we leave religion in the churches and the home, and let the schools teach?
Now that's an idea worth developing into action!
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Rev Mark D
Don't be silly, the church being actually people's homes was only good enough for Jesus, nobody else.
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April Linda Wiles
Faith and religion are not the same. You do not need religion to have faith nor do you need faith to have a religion. When a child is abused it creates something called trauma. That trauma can manifest for many years and create cycles. For example a child that is abused can come to believe love and abuse are hand in hand. They find abusive partners and the cycle continues. Even if the cycle is broken the trauma still exists in the spirit. The inner child of an adult will often mirror things said in childhood damaging confidence in the adult. A chaplains job is actually to offer spiritual healing. Why not stop that trauma at that level? I used the phrase it's worth developing because as stated in the above article its in violation of religious freedom. There are already private schools that offer religious teachings. Anyone that wants that option for their child should take advantage of that. As a survivor of child abuse, domestic abuse and religious abuse I can tell you that most school counselors completely miss the mark only because in speaking a child outs their parents. As an adult that has gone threw therapy, most teach some type of meditation. Meditation can be found in all religious beliefs. As far as religious abuse that is only something that can be healed with faith in a loving God. I hope this helps clarify what I actually already said. Respectfully.
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Kathryn Darcy Smith
GOD BLESS MY TEXAS !
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Let them hire the pedophile catholic priests. What could go wrong? Millions of little children to satisfy the disgusting sexual desires of the priests.
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John Condron
Toi be fair, Eleizabeth, (1) the great majority of Catholic priests are not pedophiles, and (2) every church has had sex scandals, many including children. The Southern Baptists come to mind, but really, I could provide a long list.
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John Condron
According to the article. "Currently, school counselors in Texas are required to be certified by the State Board for Education, hold a master’s degree, as well as have two years of classroom experience, a standard which chaplains will not be required to meet. Chaplains, however, will be required to pass a background check, cannot have a sex offense conviction, and must hold an endorsement from a religious body. They must also meet all US Department of Defense chaplaincy requirements."
So... would a murder conviction disqualify a chaplain applicant? Just curious.
The US DOD chaplaincy requirements include a masters degree, but the National School Chaplain Association (the group behind this law) website states that "People with no experience, ordination, credentials, or education or youth experience with a minimum of a high school or high school equivalency" qualify for their school chaplain certification, after "One school year of training (30 credit hours) – Completion of online asynchronous course Active Shooter and NTAC Level 1 Training Certification." Of course,this isn't free. per the NSCA, "The cost is $10,500 (non-refundable)."
Either the NSCA is lying about their certification qualifying, or the state isn't actually requiring that school chaplains "meet all US Department of Defense chaplaincy requirements"
Even if the state of Texas really does require that school chaplains meet DoD requirements, that would be "a post-baccalaureate graduate degree in the field of theological or related studies," NOT in counseling.
This is simply wrong. Military chaplains operate within a highly structured system. They are not permitted to push their particular brand of religion on service members (who are, BTW, adults, not children). It is questionable that christian chaplains working in Texas schools would operate under any constraints at all!
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Lori Crye Thompson
Yes and amen we need Godly men and women in schools along with showing the Ten Commandments!!! So much bad has taken place since they have been removed. Our forefathers never intended a total separation of church and state! Read your history books. Check out Wall-builders with David Barton America has lost its since of direction!! I’m praying for revival to hit every state.
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John Condron
First, Lori, when you say "Godly men and women," which "god" do you mean? Since you mention the Ten Commandments, you are apparently talking about the god of Abraham (not necessarily of christianity). You do realize that there are many other "gods," some of which are represented here in this blog.
Secondly, yes, our "founding fathers" DID intend a total separation of church and state. In fact, they wanted this to PROTECT RELIGION FROM THE STATE. They understood that the state is a huge danger to religion. That the state "establishing" one religion (as had happened in England) is harmful to all other religions.
That, BTW, is part of why christianity caught on like it did. Rome made christianity the state religion. That really didn't go well for the other religions. Did it? Have you considered that the version of christianity being pushed in Texas might not be YOUR version of christianity? That when the christo-fascists establish their theocracy, you might not be part of the club?
Finally, David Barton is NOT an historian. His only degree is a Bachelor's in religious education from Oral Roberts University. He is an evangelical author and political activist for Christian nationalist causes. The founder of WallBuilders, LLC, a Texas-based organization that promotes pseudohistory about the religious basis of the United States. Scholars of history and law have described his research as highly flawed, "pseudoscholarship" and spreading "outright falsehoods." You might want to think about reading some actual historians on the subject of separation of church and state.
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Danaï Lamb
In my early years in grade school, 4th grade, I lived in a predominantly Jewish area. Our school had 5 Gentiles, and we had fun on a Jewish holidays. Our teacher was a staunch Catholic who couldn’t get a job at St. Henry’s down the street. Every day, without fail she’s make us bow our heads and say this prayer. Except me, and I glared. One day she happened to look up from her prayer and caught my glare. She called me out saying: WHY DONT YOU PRAY OR ARE YOU TOO GOOD FOR PRAYER??
I looked her in he eye and told her about the separation of church and state! If you want prayer, go teach in the Catholic school! She sputtered, punished me by having me write on the blackboard, and I held back my tears, making a show of strength.
Then, I whirled home, told my mom, and she IMMEDIATELY ran back to school, where we had a Jewish principal. And she called Miss K down, read her the riot act, and insisted she apologize to me in front of the class. I of course smiled and flashed my eyes, my classmates looked in awe, and Miss K was red as a beet.
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Austin B Beamer
All peoples, Faith's, customs, religions, apart from Jesus Christ lead to a place no one needs to go! There's room in Heaven for everyone! No one has their name in a Hell directory! The place was supposed to be for Satan and his angels! No living soul is meant to go there. And as long as you are here, make sure you don't end up there!
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Kristin Hatcher
This is fine, but they have to hire one of every faith.
DOD recognizes "Christian Protestant, Muslim, Jewish, Orthodox Christian, Roman Catholic, Other faith groups."
https://www.airforce.com/careers/specialty-careers/chaplain?&&gclid=CjwKCAjw67ajBhAVEiwA2g_jEJ0N2YgQSKyLB8lNUNNI_mA_6btH4zCZLmqQ6MNvATutVtqNRdkFHxoC_bwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
I can't wait until the Church of Satan files a lawsuit when one of their order is not hired due to their religious beliefs. As a non-denominational minister, am I eligible?
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John Condron
No, Kristin. There is nothing in the Texas law that requires that "they have to hire one of every faith."
The DoD is not required to "hire one of every faith." They are simply required not to discriminate against any faith. I do not see that in the Texas law.
I am a member of The Satanic Temple, and hope that TST will start a "Satanic Chaplain Corps," or something similar. I find it hard to believe that any Texas court will require any Texas school to hire a Satanic chaplain; but perhaps it would be different at the federal level. Of course, the current SCOTUS is NOT the court the ruled in favor of The Satanic Temple years ago, so perhaps not.
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Austin B Beamer
How will the temple of Satan bring well being into society and community?
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Rev Ned
Texicans (Rooster Cogburn’s word, not mine) should teach their kids to read so they can read The Constitution and maybe understand things besides the 2nd Amendment. Then maybe they can also read the Bible and learn the truth about Jesus, who, when He met up with 5000 refugees did not turn them away, like Gov. Costello, err Abott, but rather, He FED them.
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Kenneth McDaniel Jr
God should never ever be seperate from anything or anyone. God should come first before anything. As for me and my house we will serve God. Anywhere at anytime and anyplace...including school. Nothing against councilors but it's a go for the chaplains also...Amen
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John Condron
Which "god," Ken. That really is the point here. Isn't it?
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Austin B Beamer
Probably the same God whose Domain every soul will enter when they die. A good reason to make sure that while anyone has a choice here, they make the right one. Because none of us match up to Gods Right! No matter what our right thinking or perspective is. When we enter his Domain... The Domain where demons tremble... all had better have their rights right. There will be no more time to right the wrongs! But while we're here... EVERYONE IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
CHOOSE WISELY
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Austin B Beamer
Probably the same God whose Domain every soul will enter when they die. A good reason to make sure that while anyone has a choice here, they make the right one. Because none of us match up to Gods Right! No matter what our right thinking or perspective is. When we enter his Domain... The Domain where demons tremble... all had better have their rights right. There will be no more time to right the wrongs! But while we're here... EVERYONE IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
CHOOSE WISELY
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Amber Fry
Oh that is such a seriously bad idea. Those without religion or a different religion are so not going to be able to talk to such a counselors. This will only make things worse, not better.
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John Condron
Please do not call these people "counselors." That is one of the points of this article. They will not be qualified as counselors. They will replace qualified counselors, further dumbing down the schools.
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Man of God
The United States Founding Fathers where wise in separation of Church and State. As the Republican Party attacks the wisdom of the Founding Fathers they are laying the ground work for a new Civil War, but far more destructive than the War started in 1860.
We already know that all men are born into Sin. Look at the history of any Church or Religon. The great injustice that men who think that their God have given them the right to rule over man.
The Founding Fathers wrote a Consitution freeing our nation from the evils of men playing God.
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John Condron
No, Jonathan. It is not true that "We already know that all men are born into Sin."
"Original sin" is a teaching of one, particular cult. It is not universally believed.
That is one of the big problems with putting poorly educated chaplains into the public schools. Unlike military chaplains, who are generally required to be inter-denominational, there will be nothing to stop these chaplains from indoctrinating kids into their particular cult.
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Steven Ferrell
So many mistake separation of church and state to mean church can’t have anything to do with state.
It was intended to keep government out of church, not the other way around.
But either way, the clergy have training already in counseling and leave it to parents to decide if they are comfortable with their child going to a counselor that is also clergy. If a parent prefers their kid don’t go to one, then honor that as well.
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John Condron
No, Steven, it is not even close to true that "clergy have training already in counseling." The best trained ministers and priests (a tiny minority) have minimal training in PASTORAL Counseling. That is not the same thing as professional training in counseling.
Though republicans often hide behind "parent choice," this will have the opposite effect. School administrators can be trusted to do whatever is most cost-effective. "Should I hire the masters-degree prepared school counselor, or the high school trained 'chaplain,' at half the cost. Hmm... tough choice."
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Bernie James Rocheleau
The term "separation of church and state" is a bit general and has been argued by the right that it is not in the Constitution. I would rather journalists be very specific about the fact that these bills are a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment; "Congress (including the states due to the 14th Amendment) shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." This has been litigated many times throughout our history before the Supreme Court and the law is pretty clear on this. However, the current Thomas Supreme Court has shown no respect or deference to judicial precedence nor settled law so who knows what they might (will) do with it.
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Robert Brian Steely
The DoD Chaplaincy requirements and standards make a chaplain MORE qualified to counsel students or staff that a regular counselor.
Did the Naysayers here actually READ the article or simply start foaming at the mouth in feigned outrage?
Grow up. You're supposed to be open minded. If the DoD Chaplain is the model here, anyone who's ever had experience with them knows they dont proselytize. Most of their work IS counseling, community work, grief and other emotional support and just someone to talk to if a student needs to.
Instead of educating yourself on the actual issue, instead of actually using your supposedly enlightened and open mind, its irrational emotionalism, ad hominem attacks and just plain prejudice.
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John Condron
Wrong, Robert. Did you actually bother to read the DoD chaplaincy requirements? They require a masters degree in THEOLOGY or a related degree. They are not required to have ANY mental health training. None, Robert!
DoD Chaplains are part of a very structured program. They are not ALLOWED to prosletyze. Also, they deal with ADULT service members.Not with impressionable children.
It may be true that "Most of their (Dod chaplains) work IS counseling, community work, grief and other emotional support and just someone to talk to if a student needs to," but they are not qualified to do so. I have done quite a bit of work with chaplains, including professors in chaplaincy training programs. One of the few things on which they all agree is that "chaplaincy is not counseling."
It is extremely unlikely that Texas schools will put any constraints whatsoever on school chaplains. Did you bother to look at the National School Chaplain Association (NSCA) website? They are the group behind this law. I can find no indication of a code of ethics. Perhaps they have one, but most professional associations make a point of talking about their standards.
I did, in fact, do more than just read the article. It is clear to me that you have failed to "educate yourself," but areonly engaging in "irrational emotionalism."
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JaZe
Why is it necessary for the senate to pass such a bill? Why not simply have the schools and parents agreeing they would like to ADD a chaplain? And what about other religions? These new bills are turning states into religious entities in the likes of muslim in muslin countries, religious dictatorship 👎
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John Condron
The issue is that chaplains are not qualified to work in the schools. With this bill, they are considered "qualified."
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Rev Mark D
Well, so it can be enforced, and known to be the affirmative will of the law in that state.
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Stephen P Singleton
Very interesting about the Texas Chaplain law. I spent 40 years counseling kids as an Educational Psychologist so I could see being a “school chaplain” as an Ordained ULC Minister (and dedicated Zen/Christian/Muslim/Mystic). Wonder how long I’d last teaching Meditation during “school prayer period”???
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Amber Fry
I'd guess not long at all. This is just one more move to try to force all to think and believe the same so they don't have to accommodate differences anymore. That's not freedom. That's fascism and it's going to backfire badly once it starts rippling into the general populous and people realize they don't quite all think exactly the same as they first thought.
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Stephen P Singleton
I find the Texas “Chaplain Bill” really intriguing. Proponents are clearly assuming “chaplains” would be Christian but as an “Ordained ULF Minister” who’s a Zen/Christian/Muslim Mystic, I’d LOVE to get a chaplain job in Texas! (Got cousins who run a Distillery making excellent Bourbon in Spicewood!) Wonder how long I’d last having “classroom prayer” being 5 minutes of Meditation?
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Now that ULC clergy members ( some of us with chaplain-status) can qualify to work in the Texas school systems - we should find out ASAP, if Texas will try to prevent us from doing so,
Then the ACLU might join in this effort.
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ServantOfJudgement
Here's the six step program we've almost completed.
- Remove knowledge of a creator from children.
- Watch youth crime rate explode.
- Watch the youth begin to kill each other in school.
- Wonder why kids are doing all these evil things.
- Bring God back to school.
- Goto step 1.
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Brien
Sorry, but your coding is misguided. Step 1: Parents need to be parents. Parents are responsible for teaching beliefs, right from wrong, and how to be a decent human being, NOT SCHOOLS. Step 2: Schools need to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic. Not politics, Not religious beliefs, and teach REAL history instead of the stories that are taught now. Step 3: If in doubt, refer back to step 1. Now, if you can, without all the religious fanfare, tell me what part of that don't you understand?
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ServantOfJudgement
Your step 1: Agree. Your step 2: Agree Your step 3: Compromise: No account for schools that violate that principle. A standard is always required for all educational platforms.
Is the standard yours, mine, his or hers? If the natural response is 'Theirs' then there must be all elements of yours, mine, his and hers in all schools. That violates our constitution.
Evolve Back to Step 1......-
Brien
What? Look, you already agreed to a basic standard. The wonderful thing about BASIC standards, they require NO labels to understand them as they are.... basic. The trouble with today's modern generation is that they don't understand BASIC so they have to re-invent labels and descriptions. They feel better if no one else can understand either. You need to walk away from all the psychobabble and simply get back to basics. Parents are parents, school is school. You care for yours, I will care for mine.
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ServantOfJudgement
I spoke with a 22 year old social worker that said exactly what you just said. That is "we need to redefine words so not everyone knows how to use them" I kid you not.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@ServantOfJudgement Your are absolutely correct.
Remove knowledge of a creator from children - Yes, As we know we evolved and there never was a creator. Watch youth crime rate explode - It was much worse when people believed their was a God. Thankfully it's lower now. Watch the youth begin to kill each other in school. Yes, as we have seen Christians want everyone to have guns and use them including those religion made mentally unstable. Wonder why kids are doing all these evil things. What evil things? Look at all of the evil that's going on in the church? Adulatory, child molestation, rapping of women, men telling women what they must do with their bodies. Bring God back to school. As we have seen, when God is brought back to schools violence especially gun violence and the killing for innocent children increases. Goto step 1
ServantOfJudgement don't you want to bring back other elements of religion? Such as slavery and Manifest Destiny/white supremacy before step 1?
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
It's a miracle. Amen. Growing in the kingdom of God. Counselors as chaplains opens great doors for healing to infinite & beyond for the next generations of school agers. Can you bring prayer back to the classroom?
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Kristin Hatcher
Would you say the same if the person of faith wait not christian but Jewish or Muslim or some other faith you don't believe?
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Brien
If you want, or any parent wants children to be taught religion, then it is a parents right to send THEIR children to private school. Please keep YOUR beliefs out of public school. I do not share your beliefs, I don't want them taught to my children.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Folks take a look at the definition of what a chaplain does. A chaplain provides "Spiritual care" and hope during times of injury and death. With so many kids killed in mass shootings and I'm sure the politicians are expecting many more will be they are just trying to provide aid those students who were only injured, not killed, and the other students who were scared to death instead of implementing gun control laws This law just goes to show how politicians care about children.
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Rev Mark D
So can I get baptized there if I want?
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John Condron
I'm sure you can already get baptized in at least some Texas public schools.
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Nicholas J Page
No Chaplains do not have councillor training what do they understand about mental health issues.I suffer with it But Polar and acquired brain injury.So no disrespect brothers and sisters but I'm an expert in this.Having suffered for nearly 65 years unless you have walked in my shoes you will not understand how people suffer Minister Nick Page UK
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David Arthur Lewis
Wow! Talk about GROOMING!!!!!
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Aqilah Jackson
This is so wrong on so many different levels….and again it’s the children that are going to suffer!
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Colleen McAllister
I see all the usual incoherent rambling here. Never mind anything else but that any school counselor needs to be trained and certified for the particular job. Chaplains do not have the needed skills or training to deal with the emotional problems of young children or teens. As to educational counseling I would imagine that this is not what is being discussed here. If it is then all the more reason that Chaplains would not be qualified.
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John Condron
Around one-third (27-33%) of US adults (conservatively) have experienced religious trauma at some point in their lives. Most of this religious trauma has been suffered in childhood, so putting chaplains in schools is reminiscent of stationing a fox in the henhouse.
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Danaï Lamb
Yes, religious trauma heaped on with more religious trauma. And there shall always be some quack recommendation need by something such as evangelical Church of Snake Hurling. I’m surprised the legislature kept couple avenues out: 1) it’s not REQUIRED to be Christian (read: evangelical) and 2) school doesn’t HAVE to hire one or requirem nt hem to wear lay clothes. AND WHAT ABOUT SCIENTOLOGY, or any other cult?? Watch those get closed by some stupid parents. What does a snake charmer have to do with a Judaism, Catholicism or Muslim or Hindu or Zen? Watch parents of “other” religions get a stay. AND THE TX LEGISLATURE DOESNT MEET UNTIL 2025!!!
I see it his as an opportunity for a h Universal Life ministry who are teachers/counselors to fill in a needed gap of free thinking to fill the void of gray matter.
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Brien
Ok, one more time with this same, stupid topic. Please, please just take a deep breath and follow along. It is VERY simple. School, public school, is for the teaching of reading, writing, and arithmetic. I would include history but they somehow always seem to get that wrong. Parents teach the beliefs, right from wrong, and yes parents also counsel their children. If you cannot do that, don't have any children. Now, this has been said many times before. I simply cannot understand why it is so difficult.
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Richard James Holden
If they did put up the ten commandments in school ( which I don't agree with for many reasons ) at the very least do not use old medieval English, but make the commandments relevant and modern. All this "thou shalt not" stuff is utter nonsense. Some people think it adds gravitas, but I think it is just poor communication.
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ServantOfJudgement
Most of the Thou shalt stuff is coded into every single nations laws on the planet. You don't want kids knowing not to shoot each other?
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John Condron
Yes, ServantofJudegement, "every single nation" requires their citizens to worship the god who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to refrain from making carved images or taking the name of the lord in vain, and to keep holy the sabbath day.
Dude! Four of six "commandments" have to do with the worship of one particular god. ALL of the others were included in multiple other laws, including the oldest of them all, the Code of Hammurabi.
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Michael Hunt
I never needed to read the Ten Commandments to know that murder was wrong. Morality has been around longer than religion.
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Richard James Holden
If they did put up the ten commandments in school ( which I don't agree with for many reasons ) at the very least do not use old medieval English, but make the commandments relevant and modern. All this "thou shalt not" stuff is utter nonsense. Some people think it adds gravitas, but I think it is just poor communication.
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Rev. Kev
This move by TX strikes me as rather useless. These chaplains are being placed in a school but have no background in education. How are they supposed to help students with education-related issues? How are they going to help with questions and issues the student has in moving forward in their educational goals? How do they plan on helping students with real-world problems that teenagers are facing in today's America? Thoughts and prayers?
What about students of all the other religious faiths? Or the atheists? Chaplains may be able to handle generic Christian theology, but even the military has chaplains for Protestants and Catholics at posts and bases. When applicable, they make allowances for troops to go off the reservation to visit whatever church, temple, synagogue or mosque they request to fulfill those needs.
Many students who would otherwise visit the school counselor for needed help will avoid visiting a clergy member.
This will really create more problems and solve very few.
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John Condron
The goal of this legislation is not to "help students with education-related issues."
The goal is to force a particular Texas brand of christianity into the public schools. Some christians are scared as they watch church membership drop all over the US... yes, even in Texas. They want to push back against this secularization of the country.
Of course, it will blow up in their faces... eventually. But for now, we will have to watch their increasingly desperate efforts,including forcing chaplains into schools, posting the ten commandments, and whatever else they can think of.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
I want to make one more statement about degreed, licensed and appropriately supervised individuals who are meeting the requirements of their individual states and localities.
And this is not to the trash the monastery.org et al.
Because there's a lot of politics around state licensing, (fortunately less than in the past) this or that supervisor may report this or that worker for some licensing violation, etc... and this can make a mess. Even the most petty report , vindictive or not can cause a big problem for an agency, a department, a team, and an individual and that individual's future as a counselor.
If a person is sanctioned, but can fall back on a chaplainship that the person, depending on the state, can continue to provide services under a religious sanction, whether the person has any skills at all.
In our state that is credential enough. But not enough to keep the unskilled and, unfortunately the folks with bad intentions, and perps away from the kids.
I'm a minister hear me roar...?
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William Waugh
This is now officially no longer the country I was raised in. Where is America? And what have you done with the United States. For decades, since, for forever this country has followed a consistently steady advance of government and standard of living. Now, with global domination by the white race no longer a profitable enterprise, attention is being aimed at absolutely idiotic, uneducated redneck yahoos that actually beleive wealthy people want what is good for them. After the elections; they be like, " Do I know you? I don't think so. The only way they know left to exploit the population is get everybody all riled up moving any direction BUT up. Only uneducated thick headed morons cannot comprehend that any direction but up is a step backward. Back in the day it may have been prudent to publicly present as not being much of a challenge, but with the recent revelation that supposedly majestic governments and militaries are, in reality serious rustbuckets. It is time now to move toward a prosperous future for all americans. And I know for a fact that with just a handful of proper tweaks, this country can be #1 and not #26 in the populations standard of living. Greatness of the nation will shine (again). And not just for the top 10%! Yeah, no to religion schools.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
I am a licensed social worker and I provide school based counseling to children with emotional and behavioral needs in an elementary school setting, so they can maintain and grow in a regular school setting. The school where I have been partnered for the last 11+ years of my 35 -year career is very diverse, which for some people is a nasty word, but I work in a school in the center of one of our city's most needy and culturally diverse neighborhoods: lots of issues up here in the "T," as it's called. You name it, we have it if it's bad. You name it and we have it if it's good.
I do not presume upon anyone's faith, or even and a particular clinical model to respond to a child's needs. I use the skills I have learned over the past 35 years and my experience has been that many faith based folks don't have what it takes, unless they are appropriately credentialed, licensed and subject to ongoing supervision and continuing education requirements. The ones I've known that come in to "serve" have been a mess because they have a certificate of some sort, but not the knowledge, no matter how well intentioned, or degreed... some of the folks with backgrounds in "Christian" social work have been a real disaster up here.
This state change per this particular state? Not surprising. And not well intentioned. It's a prime example of state overreach and, indeed, church overreach and it will unfortunately allow some of the uneducated, the unaccountable, and I'm gonna say it the sexual "perps" more access to more kids.
"Chaplains" don't have the required oversight.... and they will need close monitoring. I wouldn't let one of them around one of my clients....
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James Riggle-Johnson
You are absolutely right. A person needs to know how to counsel. If a child is having problems at home the answer is not prayer. I do not understand how this has anything to do with strengthening religious freedom. A person has a right to practice any faith they want or no faith at all. Religious freedom has nothing to do with forcing others into your belief system. I feel sorry for these students. Schools need trained professionals.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Todd Kamm Well said.
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Clay Serenbetz
Public school is supposed to stay secular. They can't have a spiritual gap unless they adhere to a religion with a spirit to worship.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Not true. There are many supported schools by religious organizations that are secular and state schools.
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Amber Fry
Since when do people stick to 'supposed to'? Just because they are doing it doesn't mean they should be. Separation between church and state was to keep this country from turning into what we fought so hard to get away from, religious lead sovereignty. The only way people can believe and live they way they do is by keeping the government organizations secular.
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Cindy L Edgar
I see a lot of parents pulling their kids out of school because of that because not a lot of people are religious I know if I had kids in school they would not be attending a school like that I do not believe church needs to be in schools at all that's a family's choice not a government choice
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Jose Francisco Vasquez
Yes, to the Texas legislators to be a Chaplain is to be a Conservative Christian Chaplain. Other faith groups need not apply. I know, I grew up in Texas.
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Alexander Arends
I agree that this would have dire consequences if public schools implemented such. But this is not a mandate. This should allow Texas private or religious school the opportunity to hire a faith counselor or chaplain. It all sounds like a knee jerking politically motivated resolution.
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John Condron
You are right, Alexander. I am sure that those right-wing christian superintendents or principals will use great restraint in ensuring that they strike a balance between professional school counselors and chaplains... even though the chaplains will surely be much cheaper, and more plentiful.
Sorry.That was as long as I could keep a straight face.
Are you kidding?
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Lionheart
But where's a Wiccan Priestess, Mullah, or Rabbi, when you want one at school if there are no counsellors, only Chaplains? 🤷🏼
🦁♥️
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Chaplains in the military orders does include all religions regardless of what someone might say in here.
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Amber Fry
That's the military. Most areas are lucky to have one counselor stretched between several schools rather than contacts for several different religious options.This is a disaster in the making. Kids are not going to feel safe talking to someone who isn't from their own belief system.
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John Condron
I seriously doubt that kids will have a choice on attending assemblies, etc., conducted by these chaplains.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Well, maybe they need to get themselves a plastic-badged member of the ULCM! I might have to come out of retirement and move back to the States.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
WTF do chaplains know about anything other than religious gobbledygook! Oh I forgot, this is in Tedsarse!
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Rev Mark D
Yeah, as their PR campaign used to say: "It's like a whole other country!"
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Najah P Tamargo
Minister Najah Tamargo, USA SBNR....but respectful of ALL!
So doesn't this just open a whole new BIG can of worms??? And it figures it would be in Texas (Florida will probably be next)! OK - First - I agree.....HUGE blow to separation of Church and State! Second - What exactly are the "US Department of Defense chaplaincy requirements"? Where do you find them? Is there a "test" that you have to take? Anything that has to do with the DOD makes me a little suspicious, again, separation of church and state. Third - What if a child is having issues with gender identity? Since most Christian religions are seriously AGAINST that, how is that going to be handled? Let me guess.....ship them off to some sort of conversion camp?? Fourth - What if a child comes from a Muslim family and they are being bullied or harassed? How is a "good Christian" going to handle that since most are anti-Muslim? Fifth - Same question if the child is Jewish? With all the anti-Semitic things going on in the world, and here in the USA, how is a "Christian" Chaplin equipped to handle THAT issue? I have so many questions like the above, but I do not want to bore anybody with my ramblings. I believe that his is a GIANT MISTAKE!!!! There are students that are studying to be counselors and mental health professionals. They are closer to the student's age, more aware of current issues, could use the extra money for their schooling, and could use the "extra credit" points to gain their degrees. Why not use them? Sorry, I get slapped a lot for being logical:):):) But I forget, logic and government do not go together!
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Gregory Joseph Drobish
I will be "respectful."
But I guess it is easier to rant and make accusations than to do a web search for DoD Chaplain requirements. The requirements are easy to find.
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Leslie Bomar
I can answer a few of your questions. Military chaplains are generally not the "blood and glory" type of folk. They are also not what most would think of when one thinks of speaking to a church affliated minister/pastor/priest. They are non-denominational ministers that are capable of sustaining most mainstream faiths. Remember, the military has strict non-discrimination policies and rules. Attending a Chaplains mast or service doesn't really resemble going to a church for service.
All the Chaplains I have ever met (not a huge number, but a significant number over the years) are focused more on faith and less on religion. There is no hell and brimstone or demonization of "other" faiths.
In any case, here are the DoD requirements: https://recruiting.army.mil/MRB_ReligiousServices/#:~:text=Educational%20Requirements%3A,semester%20hours%20in%20graduate%20work.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Where's the separation of church and state?
Damn the GOP needs to GO, GO, GO!
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Joe Stutler
Sure, because skilled professionals should be replaced by gullible spellcasters...and yet another way for kids to get all the molesting they'd normally find in church delivered right to their local public school.
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Rev Mark D
Don't forget all those happy and heavy contributions from all the believers, tax-free. Great business to be in.
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Rev. Laurie G. Cleveland RN
I am a non-denominational ministet with the ULC and I like it that way. If chaplins are allowed to be an addition to or replace current guidance counselors and the people behind it are Born Again Christians, there are inherent problems here. If they inject their own brand of Christianity into their counseling, that's a big no-no because you are putting your beliefs and blinders on when a student who comes from a different religion or none. They are just mixed up kids needing guidance. We aren't there to preach. We are there to listen and offer suggestions or in the case of a badly bullied kid, help them stand up for their rights. I find that it is much better to infuse some laughter and make the kid feel better about themselved. Thst ultimately is tye goal. If they are interested in attending your church, great, but kids are pretty perceptive and they know who mirrors their beliiefs and who just thumps a book at them.
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Brien
Let's just put a giant enema in the state of Texas and be done with it.
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Rev. MichaelRS
That might not work out as well as I think some of the legislators intend. Or put another way, it could have unintended consequences.
For example, I don't think their intent is that said chaplains be from someplace like the Metropolitan Community Church or, probably thanks to a lawsuit, from the Church of Satan or a Wiccan Church.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
I think this law is a good thing. We could do with a few chaplains from The Church of Satan in schools. nemA!
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Renee Pells Cyr
Unfortunately, because there is no national governing body Wiccan and Church of Satan clergy are unable to get the accredadation needed to be approved by the Department of Defense (Which this bill requires). There are a few Jewishish, Buddhist and Islamic groups that offer accredadation but it is almost entirely Christian. Here is the officical list https://prhome.defense.gov/M-RA/MPP/AFCB/Endorsements/
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Rev Mark D
...or ULC.
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Kenneth Eagle Spirit
Separation of church and state takes yet another blow.
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David Richard Procter
I agree with you, but Texas needs civilizing. Maybe this would help.
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John Condron
Yes, because recent events show that christians have a "civilizing" effect.
NOT!
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David Richard Procter
Don't have tunnel vision. Christianity along with other world religions helped "civilize" the world. Remember what Lord Acton said. "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Consider organized religion's power over the ages, and now it is diminishing. Doesn't diminish their effect on mankind.
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John Condron
Yes, David. The Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition were extremely civilizing experiences, as are all of the things being done by christo-fascists in Florida and other red states. You are absolutely right. I'm the one with "tunnel vision."
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Paul Edward Nunis
What's 'civilized' about arguing with those who posted well known examples from history, which agreed with your point?
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It will be a great idea to bring God back to school again it will be less crime in the school and we need to bring back the school prayer and we need to bring God back into the United States of America there are too many kidnappings and killing