President Trump drew swift condemnation across much of social media for his recent remarks about Hispanic gang members that illegally enter the United States. During a roundtable discussion on immigration at the White House yesterday, Trump responded to a question about the notoriously violent gang known as MS-13 by saying:
"We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in - and we're stopping a lot of them - but we're taking people out of the country. You wouldn't believe how bad these people are. These aren't people. These are animals. And we're taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate that's never happened before."
Although some media outlets were criticized for taking the president's comments out of context, many thought it was still immoral to refer to anyone as "animals" - criminal or not. Some of the strongest online condemnation came from a Jesuit priest named James Martin:
To be clear, even members of MS-13 are not "animals." Every human being has dignity, even the worst criminals, even murderers. The main danger of the "animal" language is that it begins with criminals, and then is applied to entire classes of people (i.e., migrants, Tutsi, Jews).
James Martin, SJ (@JamesMartinSJ) May 17, 2018 However, others disagreed, claiming that the president was completely entitled to call them animals. They point out that MS-13 is known for carrying out horrific and barbaric acts of violence, and is heavily involved in child trafficking. Why should we not take a hard stance when it comes to getting these people out of the country? They ask. And if that type of behavior doesn't justify the label of "animal," what does?
How Should We Treat Others?
The topic sparked intense as people argued over whether the comments were entirely appropriate, perhaps accurate but ill-thought out, or even racist and dehumanizing. Among the usual nasty taunts and petty insults that characterize the fraught landscape of social media, there were some interesting conversations taking place. For example, in one thread of replies to James Martin's tweet we found a good-faith argument between two people that appear to disagree:
Jesus did indeed teach us to love others - even the lowest among us. Do those teachings have limits, or do they represent eternal principles that must never be violated?
**Let us know where you stand.
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180 comments
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Rev. Rob
well, all i can say is have lets say like in my case 5 of these so called people, walk in to a store kill one's mother in law and a 17 old boy playing a video game for some beer and cigarettes and lets see how you feel after it destroys your marriage then come back and tell me they are not animals
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Plaster Jack Lam
Well of corse!!!animal.give me a break.animal.wow I mean pc going crazy!!We need someone like trump not like pussys like Obama the muslin. To put this country stright.all these time out sissys.what kind of world are we in crazy.animal my god!!our God is close to destroying humans again this time fire not water.starting with Hawaii. Animal is a gentle name for these m13 non US citizens.
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Wendy Lovett
Trump is a misogynist, narcissistic, child-like, fragile-ego jerk.
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William Billings
Send us your address and we will send ms13 to your neighbor hood, let me know how long it takes you to call Washington for help.
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Professor
Yea, but at least he is not a murdering mafia boss like Hillary!
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guidvce4
Another case of TDS. Without any facts or evidence to bolster the statements or allegations, as usual in these cases. May God bless and keep you from harm, real or imagined.
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George
It's easy to call anyone names. What is difficult is to use your own words obtained from serious self thoughts and not the thoughts of friends.
I doubt that you could explain your words without a friend sitting next to you dictating your reasoning.
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Thomas
The question is not "is it right". The question is it accurate. We are talking about MS-13 here not a shoplifter or petty thief. It's no time to be polite but to move from being defensive and go on the offensive with such people who are behaving worse than animals.
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James
What just a minute! This is all coming from some jack leg terds that day we evolved from chimpanzees! Mammal, animal. Yes /no. Now if you chew up your own and whore out your sisters, and torture children for not joining your gang. Label me what ever you think, because if you think calling then animals is unfit. I don't care what you think. The viscous Gangs, armies, religions, etc that do this kind of crap, don't gives one tiny poop what you call them. Then here in the midst civilized nation on earth? No no no. What's worse than animal? Use that name as we sling shot their butts out of this country. Those are not people. They are demons and devils. Punish them according to their laws. Ha, ha, ha but that's unfair too. Sheepeople...
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Rev. Wills
Demon is a fitting way to refer to MS13.
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guidvce4
Absolutely agree. I see them as minions of satan and demons themselves. If anyone thinks otherwise, then go hang with the MS13 crew and others like them, and see what happens. To label them as "animals" is not harsh enough, demons may be just about right. Even animals do not commit acts as atrocious as these gang members.
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James
Yes, love them as you love yourself. Do not allow Them in our country! I wouldn't want me in their country.
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Carl Elfstrom
What's wrong with animals? I've never known any who were criminals. I've never called anyone one, but think when someone does he's only referring to someone acting like an animal. However, you'll never hear an animal call anyone a bad name. I seriously doubt that they ever get a resentment or seek revenge. And I'm sure that dogs and cats are much quicker to forgive than humans. So, what's wrong with animals or being called one ? Maybe particular kinds animals, such as you dirty rat, but a friend is sometimes called dog, and it was once hip to call a man a cat. Of course, nobody likes being call a jack - ass or a chicken, but simply an animal is not bad, especially since most animals act better than most people.
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D R Hodges
Everyone “in the streets” knows that in this context, the word “animal” is code language for brown or non-Caucasian and poor people. No one can tell me any different because I’m in those streets every day. ...Awakening each minute...
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Carl Elfstrom
I thought all street people were poor, Dog. I was panhandling with hobos when I was twelve years old. I joined A.A. when I was twenty, and have been away from that lifestyle for many years, so I don't know the current lingo of the streets. But in my day down here in Galveston I can't recall anyone being called an animal. And I don't think I was always too stoned to know what was going on. I think street talk changes with every generation of young people.
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Judith
Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy..... White as they come. ANIMALS. It has NOTHING to do with skin color. It has to do with violence, lack of ANY morals or humanity.
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Centrist Death Squads
Individual serial killers are indeed animals. But they're wholly different from organised gangs who ply their chaos and havoc for profit and to instill fear. I believe the enjoyment they get is different from that of psychopathic serial killers who feel a necessity to do what they do. They are broken. Whereas gangs, particularly the brutal and savage nature of one such as Mara Salvatrucha is hedonistic, profiteering on misery. I think most people commenting that Trump shouldn't have referred to them as animals either don't know about MS-13 or they're so blindly hateful of Trump they'll disagree with him even if it means defending literal murderers.
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George
Boy, are you right in that thought. As a friend said he hoped Trump would fail with NOKO even if it meant rockets would rain down on California. The person I'm talking about had a head injury and has the mentality of a ten year old.
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Lee Conner
refering to criminals as animals, and I mean people who rape and kill is an insult to animals...yet we are all freakin animals...get over it
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Janice A Ellery
Many young minority males refer to each other as "dawg" or "dog" and this is not considered negative. In my day calling someone a dog would be an insult. you have to look at the context of how the word is being used.
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Maurice Slaunwhite
God does not say we are animals so that means even a President of the united states has no right to call any one person an animal even though some animals are more intelligent than some people.
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Carl Elfstrom
And a lot of animals are more intelligent than Trump.
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Jack
Wow, you just posted your "intelligence" for all to see. Not too bright there.
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Jim
You want to call something a human that will kill a human being just for looking at him wrong, Wipe out a family because they got in their way, traffic in Children. They run around in packs like wolfs. I would say they are more animal than human.
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Jack
Agree.
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Reed A Mathis
Humans are part of the animal kingdom Genus: Homo Species:sapiens Humans can be more animal than human. If you don't believe me work at a place like California's Corcoran State Prison. Those are animals. Actually worse than animals. Animals kill for food.
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David Zimmerman
Take a look at the California youth Authority at Chad, D Witt Nelson and Karl Holton
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Jack
True. We are animals, people just can't get used to that fact.
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Keoni Ronald May
For those people who have worked in Law Enforcement, the Fire Department, and Emergency Medical Services, it would be hard not to call a criminal an "animal" after you saw their victims. A torn anus on a small child, a viciously raped woman bleeding from every opening, a castrated man with his genitals in his mouth, a 2 baseball bats shoved up a woman, etc... can only bring up a bad adjective for a criminal.
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Tom B
when interacting with another human being you are either loving or not...if you want to reflect your divine heritage, you will be loving, despite the cost...Tom
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Janice A Ellery
The scriptures clearly have examples of when even God was angered by horrific behavior.What do you suggest we do with individuals who kill or torture others? Sorry Tom I think you are being unrealistic.
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Tom B
Janice...thank you for writing...i believe we are only a tiny part of God...God has no anger, ever...God is pure love and peace...there is no direct aggressive action to be taken against others...our best is to model the behavior of love, caring and compassion...it will not directly deter the actions you describe; that is strictly the ultimate results of karma...i agree with you, that in a given lifetime it appears unrealistic, but ultimately, through many lifetimes, it is the only way...Peace...Tom
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Tom B
Joseph...what specific words or ideas in my comment triggered moderation?...please...Tom
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Jim
Tom, Nice thoughts but "God has no anger, ever. Tell that to Noah when he pleaded for the world to be saved.
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Tom B
Jim...respectfully, they are not just thoughts; they are he way everyone should live...and there is nothing to show Noah existed (aside from the scientific impossibility of the ship/animals)...Peace...Tom
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John Owens
Tom, there is no "scientific" impossibility of the ship or the animals. Bronze age people could build ships. Speciation and continental drift have occurred since then, so quite possibly there were fewer kinds of animals and birds. The limitations are on current knowledge of things that happened in the past.
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Carl Elfstrom
Anger is simply an emotion. Why should we not attribute all human emotions to god since we make him resemble a man in every other way.. If God made us in his image surely that isn't only referring to the way we look. There's nothing wrong with anger as long as it's used wisely and not dwelled upon, just like God uses it.
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Tom B
Carl....respectfully, speaking of God in terms of humans, emotions or otherwise, is simply an exercise in anthropormorphism...God did not "make" us; we are a part of God...there is no anger in God...there is only love and peace...anger is a function of karma, and we ultimately make the choices that generate karma...Peace...Tom
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Jack
So, if approached by machete wielding MS 13 members, you would do nothing to protect yourself or family? You are sick, dude.
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Michael Spinelli
The word animal can be used to identify action or type of persons actions. I for one beleive there is nothing wrong with the President making that statement. It depicks the actions and life style of these individuals. I for one agree are animalistic. You can give this type of person all the love you want but they will still kill or hurt you. Vicious animals
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Carl Elfstrom
Tom, we apparently don't share the same beliefs about divinity, and I really don't care what you or anyone else believes. That's called being content in my faith. Beyond that, considering how peaceful you and your god claim to be, I bet you've got a large, well cultivated poppy garden in your back yard. Peace...love.
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Professor
You mean, one of Gods plants that no man has a right to control. It is sad when Christians make comments like this.
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Frank Villari
After the've beat you close to death with a bat, cut off your hands and feet, ripped out your tongue and are making ready to take your head, please look them in the eye (if you still have yours) and tell them you forgive them. Then you will have my respect. I'll still think you're an idiot, but you'll have my respect for being able to forgive the animal about to skin you alive.
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John Owens
Wait. Just wait a minute. Everybody knows: It is perfectly fine and acceptable if a Democrat calls another person a troll, Nazi, racist, misogynist, xenophobe, inbreed or illiterate or anything else, WITH NO PROOF AT ALL, but if a non-democrat does it, it just shows how uncouth they are.
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Lea Weisenbach
Or just amazes me what people deem important. I don't think Trump looks at a cute little fur ball as an ugly animal..Its the wild animals like a coyote attack their prey...Enen the President has free speech..
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John Owens
I concur with that prognosis, Dr. Weis. Have a good weekend.
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Michael Mangold
Technically, we are all animals (Kingdom Animalia). In fact, it does a disservice to other animals to call any group of humans "animals" since that kind of conscious violence is not apparent in the rest of the animal world. What makes us different? That "conscious" thing.
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Gary Hynous
Based on the number of comments regarding this situation, it's made a lot of people's blood boil. The opposite of good is evil and there is evil in the world. Building a fence isn't the solution nor are racist remarks. This is a political situation involving people that should be in prison but I don't think our President's solution is viable. Why not fence our whole country rather than single out people of Mexico. Color is only skin deep. Under the skin we are all the same. We may never end the prejudice that is rampant is our country as well as in other countries. That's human nature like it or not. There is no easy solution to this and many other world problems but we must continue to try. Perhaps we should vet all immigrants before they enter the U.S.A. People will continue to come to our country because the standard of living is much higher here. Separating families is not the answer either. Known gang members should be banned from entry into the US and yet they seem to find a way in. We have yet to solve all these and many other problems. Is prayer the answer? Perhaps and yet our country continues to produce its' share of mass murders.
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David Zimmerman
You people are showing your stupidity MS 13 is not a Mexico thing and ms 13arm from El Salvador! If they have a chance to get to Nancy then I think she would realize they are truly barbaric animals
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Wesley W Brown
REV BOB HAVE YOU READ MATTHEW 6 14 OF MAYBE YOU FORGOT ABOUT THAT VERSE IN 2008 TO 2013 I WORK FOR A PRIVATE SECURITY COMPANY AND WATCH ALOT MY FRIENDS GET KILLED I WAS SO ANGRY AND HAD TO ASK JESUS TO FORGIVE ME GODS PEACE TO YOU MY BROTHER
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John A Anderson, CD, CIF Mons ON
Technically, humans are animals; however, animals rarely kill their own kind on purpose. Therefore, your President referring to them as animals is insulting, to the ANIMALS.
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Rev. Wills
Exactly so. Although I agree with President Trump's underlying view, labeling MS13 as animals is, indeed, insulting to animals.
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Jim
in response to Toms Comment on May 18. with God all things are possible. There is no scientific Proof that there is a God. There is Scientific Evidence that the world was covered in water. Again I say the thought of Peace and Love is great but I would argue that is more unrealistic even in many lifetimes than the Ark.
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Tom B
Jim...respectfully, what is the difference if there is or is not scientific proof of anything?...what is the difference if there was or was not a man named Noah, who did or did not build an ark?...the point is that we are all part of God, whether it is scientifically proven or not, and we do best in this illusion of a "world" by being loving, caring and compassionate, because when we are, we make a small difference in the "world"...that is what "realism" is...Peace...Tom
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Tom B
Joseph...i am still waiting for a description of the parameters that lead to more than half my comments, which you have said are respectful and thoughtful, are subject to "moderation"...please...Tom
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John Owens
Tom, Joseph is just being fair. He hasn't censored any of my comments, but he reserves the right of the moderator to hold them until he has read them. Sometimes, he can't read them right away, so they are put on hold. He's just being responsible. We naturally take things personally when they are happening to US. That's just ego, though, Tom.
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Tom B
John...Joseph has written that they do not know why some comments are "moderated"...i just find it strange when most of my comments are "awaiting moderation", because, based on what I write, and his comments to me, there does not seem to be a reason...Joseph knows I always consider what he writes back to me...believe me, i try to avoid acting through ego, as that is illusionary...i always appreciate your writing...Peace...Tom
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RMC
We ARE animals. Our estrangement from nature (CREATION) is our sin.
Having said that, Trump needs to resign. He is an embarrassment and a hater.
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Lt Bil Drat
It's about time they were publicly called out as the illegal alien animals that they are.
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Ruth
People are all born innocent. Experiences and struggles create every one of us to respond in healthy and not so healthy ways. Ethics here are both are corrupted. We can all chose to react in ways that condemn the person and his/her actions but it's not fair to see it without the larger scope. One is born of poverty. one is born of money. I will chose to support those who are born of poverty and continue to work on the conditions of poverty because building community helps build up the soul. I will always condemn the corruption of money - as clearly for me, they could make impactful choices to create a more equitable life for more people giving thirsty a refreshing glass of hope.
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David Arms
Yes. Many of them are animals and act as such. All they understand is the law of the jungle.
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Rev. Wills
The sole argument I would have is to not denigrate animals. Animals are pure of heart, living instinctually. The disgusting members of MS13 are far inferior to animals. President Trump is, however, correct in vilifying MS13 members because they are nothing more than soulless shells. I well understand the lesson in loving everyone, however, refuse to love those who have absolutely no regard for human life nor morality.
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Matt
Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.
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Thomas J Hargrove
We are all humans. Sin is sin no matter great or small. We all need God in our lives to save us. Jesus said he that is without sin cast the first stone - remember.
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Roger Thunderhands Gilbert
Calling them an animal is an insult to the four leggeds. These people are worse then animals they are humans! What other species has caused so much pain and murderous carnage on the earth. And so there you have it!
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Sharon Bergseid Rose
Roger Thunderhands Gilbert----I totally agree with your statements. Animals are only doing what is instinctual to survive. We are of the animal/mammal kingdom and as such we humans need to become humane. Sharon Bergseid Rose
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Patrick Smith
We are all human. Hate the sin not the sinner.
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Rev J
Simply put NO! Jesus never bargained with evil he just destroyed it on the spot.
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Rain
It all seems to come down to the root philosophy that animals, (and plants for that matter) are somehow lesser creations than the human being. This is a misunderstanding, a misinterpretation of doctrine and a distorted reflection of collective self awareness. We are just one of many intricately woven and equivalently essential facets in Creation total. So to use the term animal as an insult is to blame, to project the misdeeds of humankind onto what humans see as a lesser creature rather than taking responsibility for creating and allowing a world social climate where such crimes are even possible.
Once responsibility is acknowledged and taken, things can begin to blance and change and we will see fewer cases of human demonically oriented mind possession in our world.
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JOLENE MARCELLA TRAVIS
ANY felon should be executed upon being found guilty.
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Charles Jenkins
Even your own children?
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Benito Marcello Bowen
Why are you assuming her kids are felons?
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Professor
A pot smoker who owns a gun is committing a felony. The evilness of people who think like Jolene is what is wrong with our country.
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Charles Jenkins
I find that the comment is out of line. 95% of what this man says is awful and promoting hate. Argue if you choose, but nothing anyone can say will change who and what he is.
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Alicia
Please give us examples of this "hate promoting" coming from our POTUS? So many people have called him racist and misogynist, yet no one can give valid examples.
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Professor
So, that murderer Hillary would have been a better choice? That 95% number was born out of hate, there is no truth to it and you are a hypocrite for saying it.
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John Owens
This is a tempest in a teapot, made up for no other reason than to oppose Trump. Sociologists and anthropologists have been telling us for years that we are animals. We humans have always referred to killers as predators and rapists as animals ALWAYS. Every one of you has said something similar about someone at sometime and you are committing the most blatant hypocrisy imaginable.
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john
Trump's critics act like animals all the time. Let us forgive them as well as him. A majority of the people see through them and that's why CNN's ratings are falling faster than a shooting star. Trump could have said God Bless You when someone sneezed and they would tear into him like frenzied animals on the issue of separation of church and state. This is a silly exercise the ULC has offered to provoke discussion on what they want ro imagine is a controversial remark.. They are capable of higher pursuits. It is meaningless except to lay bare the political partisanship of of those who see it as another of the endless opportunities to condemn or defend our brother the president, Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone or perhaps remove the beam from your own eye. Or better yet, ignore silly articles like this one and use the day to feel your companionship with God as you move through it, forgiving everything you experience that is not an expression of love while choosing to be the instrument of God's will that you are this very moment.. Seeing what we are moved to do moment by moment while maintaining that state of mind is the only real task at hand. It's not easy, thanks to our conditioning, but it is simple. To the degree we succeed in doing that, we unite with the ongoing unfoldment of God's movement of Creation and experience simultaneously our neverending fulfillment and our unique part in the plan.. Have a good (meaning of God) day. Let this be your practice everyday all day until it makes perfect. You are not alone in so doing. There is nothing better to do.
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mark marcelis
They’re animals...
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Dennis C
How is it as Americans we "stand against" what is wrong in theory only, carry debates, and talk, talk talk. As we talk our President and government drop bombs on children, hospitals, schools, and supply guns for wars to create destabilization to keep other countries weak. Animal, terrorist, dogs, whatever name you choose to give another so you can feel better about the atrocities you commit is the standard norm in America. See the bigger picture, we condemn simple words and yet we have prisons like Guantanamo Bay where nobody has rights and you are just guilty, no choice, no rights, no trial
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Propaganda analyst
The problem is that Trump is calling MS-13 animals to sanction inhuman behavior on the part of America. A recent 20/20 explored the practice of sending immigrant minors off to foster parents in the states who were just placing them in massive factory farms to work 10 hour days without school, paid less than minimum wage, denied a means to communicate with their families. Now we have a massive increase in parents being separated from their naturalized children, removing stability from the lives of these kids, flooding social services with children whose parents dreamt would have a better life. Has a drug gang done horrible things? Of course. Does that mean every immigrant is MS-13? Of course not, nor should we be treating all of them as such. As ICE breaks up families are we improving our country or creating a new, traumatized and hardened criminal class?
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Michele Furman
The definition of an animal has many meanings. It depends on the context in which you mean (noun, ajective...etc.). Our President meant it as an ajective. That particular definition is as follows: Characteristic of the physical and instinctive needs of animals; of the flesh rather than the spirit or intellect. synonyms: carnal, fleshly, bodily, physical; More brutish, beastly, bestial, unrefined, uncultured, coarse.
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Michele Furman
And then there's this definition: a person whose behavior is regarded as devoid of human attributes or civilizing influences, especially someone who is very cruel, violent, or repulsive.
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bill
President Trump , was right MS13 , they are animals . I don't hate them , they just don't have any regard to kill us or rape !! I don't want them in this country. They do n't have the right to kill us. So, we must take them out of our country. If this offends any one I'm sorry.
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Sal DiSciasdcio
I can not believe we are having this conversation. The phrase in question as an analogy and, as such, is perfectly apt. Sadly, it applies to too many of our flocks out there.
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Benito Marcello Bowen
Super easy for all these people on here to spout asinine rhetoric of "hate the sin not the sinner" and "turn the other cheek." You talk a big game, back it up with your actions, go volunteer in areas of the world ravaged by extreme gang violence and drug lords. See how much love you have for these monsters then. These people made a choice. A choice to turn their backs on their basic humanity. They are the epitome of sub-human monsters, by their own decisions. Their "sin" is who they are, they are defined by it, it is the core of their being and it's ichor drips from them like a bloody stain. If you hate the act and not the person committing then you are as despicable as these creatures, because they are the living embodiment of their "sin."
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Joe Santisteban
The President was correct in referring to these gangs members as animals. The 'lefties' and the MSM took his comment out of context (as they usual do) and misquoted him. IMHO - anyone who kills someone indiscriminately is an animal. Actually, this is kind of an insult to real animals - because they normally kill for food or survival. This gang members kill for sport, or just for the hell of it. God will judge them when their time comes!
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Shane
Let's be clear humans are in the kingdom animalia,therefore we are all animals. We all need to stop taking offense to everything that is said. So you don't like their choice of pronoun who cares? Quit taking everything so personal. First off it wasn't directed at you and second it is his issue not yours.
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David Hawkins
No he was not. Children are not disciplined as much today and have no respect for anyone. Once they cross the line of living a self-absorbed life, where their own super-ego is in charge and no one else matters they are as animals. I can say this from first hand knowledge of watching one descend into the chaos of gang life. They hunt in packs as wolves do looking for a weaker person to attack and take what they have. They kill with no remorse or shame as any animal would. So how could President Trump be wrong, when the very people he referenced to, make his point for him. It is the last days and no one wants to see it. WAKE UP YE MEN WITH MILDEWED MINDS AND SEE WHAT LAYS IN FRONT OF YOU. IF YOU DO NOT BECOME A PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU WILL BE ONE WHO IS CONSUMED BY THE CHAOS AROUND YOU.
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Tigerz
Personally, referring to MS13 as animals is an insult to the animal kingdom. Animals kill to protect or to eat. Not for fun. MS13 are worse than rabid animals. Scum, filth, deranged, maggots. Living off the flesh of others. No defense for them. Call them anything but human.
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Christian
Animals live in a state of Natural Grace - living as they were made to love and not sinful. Even the most dangerous pathogens have no Evil intentions, only the DNA programmed desire to live.
Humans however can be filled with malice. Desire to do harm, and intention to commit horrific crimes.
So I would say it is an insult TO ANIMALS to compare them with humans.
Almost all animals run away from humans and have suffered slaughters and homelessness and starvation and worse - at at the hands of humans.
If ALL Creatures give witness to God how they were treated, where would YOU stand ?
As you do to the least of gods creatures so shall it be done onto you.
Knowing the promise, be kind to even the spiders and mice in your world. Capture & transplant creatures that wonder in to your home.
Live and let Live.
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Randall L Bartle
I believe that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Mosaic Law and now we live under just 2 love God and love your neighbor. That does not mean that we can condone such acts a s committed by MS-13. I have not problem praying for then to find a Christian way of life. However, I will not be inviting them into my home for a piece of pie. For the those that believe they should be treated like other people are asking for trouble. The test may be: "Would you allow them to take your children for an outing?"
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Jeff M
Everyone has failed to mention one specific criteria for valid comment: :"Have you ever personally confronted evil face to face?" While serving in the late 70's and early 80's we were charged with addressing such people in central and south America. Until you see for yourself what horrid behavior mankind is capable of, you are all talking only of theory and supposition. Nice conversation over cocktails or coffee but not based in any personal experience. Zero value for human life, zero value for kids, women or anything that does not allow for immediate and complete self satisfaction. Turning the other cheek will only get you shot in the other side of your face! There are "animals" among us and we must treat them as we do a rabid animal. The Old Testament had it right, swift and equal reactions to evil is the only "love" they understand.
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Jeff
President Trump was not out of line. There are two ways to look at this. Animals show no soul, no conscience, they will kill to eat and to protect property even to breed. Humans have a soul and a conscience, they do not indiscriminately harm others. Part of MS-13's motto is to rape and kill. The second thought I have on this concerns the theory of evolution which is currently taught in our school system. It teaches that humans evolved from apes and that we are all animals on separate evolutionary branches. We cannot pick and chose... we are either animals or we are human created in Gods image.
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Alan Sturdy
Animals act upon rewards or threats to their well being. This response has driven the evolution of every species on the planet. Given we are (in our terms), a more evolved species. It,follows that the rewards of that evolution has outweighed the disadvantages. Unless yo want to hand over sovereignty to another species/genus, I suggest we step up to the plate and assune a leadership role, make decisions for our environment, and leave the other life forms to challenge in the courts.
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Father Fred
I agree with Bob's statement, "Hate the sin not the sinner" with the caveat that anyone who knows the group, knows of the vulgar and vile sins MS13 commits. So then you have to ask yourself, can you turn the other cheek, and what will happen to you? Then, if you are witness to a killing, beating, rape, etc, what do you do? Stand there and let it happen and pray they stop?
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Bernard M Kruger
I have often said to my grandchildren, I will always love you but I may not like the things you do or say. If you carry hatred in your heart that negative emotion will carry a seed of negativity that will eventually destroy you. You can forgive an act but not accept it an still carry love in your heart. Gangbangers such as MS13 are worse than "animals" Animals kill to survive, they kill to feed, they kill to dominate. They do not kill needlessly and mindlessly as these creatures do. We must remember that we are all God's children, but some of his kid"s can really "piss us off" and we have the God given right to react acccordingly.
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Reb TK
I have no inclination to debate this man's style or the base he appeals to and I personally go neither right nor left nor in between, and decide right and wrong for myself...but I know a huge ego when I see it, and see a lack of insight and judgment , a huge gap in knowledge of the "facts" and a total lack of presidential demeanor, tact and taste....in short... not a class act. I would advise showing some class and not his... you know what.
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Rev Dodd
Yes Trump is out of line. To call him an animal, is to also call himself an animal. Does the Bible not teach us to Love one another, as ourself. So If he calls this man an animal, then Trump must also be an animal.
Trump is so uneducated, yet touts himself as a genius. He is so egotistical and narcissistic that he is doing so much damage to this country and he can't even see it.
I don't remember the artist(s), so please forgive me for that. The song "We all bleed the same" has so much truth and meaning behind it.
It doesn't mater the color of our skin, the religion or non-religion, rich or poor, police or criminal, the gender, the sexual orientation, whether we are straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, questioning, asexual or whatever else there is including our cultural differences when it comes down to it, we all bleed the same so let's all come together!
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Tom
Being called "animals" would be a compliment for MS 13 garbage. They have no right to live. They are lower than garbage and cockroach excrement.
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Rarity Tachibana
President D.J.Trump does not think lions tigers and bears go around killing pool for sport to be apart of something, he thinks ppl who kill others for sport and to boast look at how amazing I am are you going to give me a trophy .is not considered to have human morality we need to stop making excuses for these type of ppl would you leave your small children with ms13 as a babysitter .if you want to sit their and call me a racist then please do I don't care I want children to be able to walk out side with out worrying about their safety or if someone is going to shoot their parents. Because the don't understand that as an American citizen they do not have the right to freedom in their own country.
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Gary
While I agree the acts they perform are not normal for Christians, one must remember they are under Satan's control while doing these things, While the percentage is extremely small, I have actually converted a handful of MS- 13 members back into Christians. I worked a prison ministry and street ministry at one point. The 1 or 2 percent I managed to save have become upstanding citizens and strong in their churches. Don't give up on them, some can still be saved.
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Rarity Tachibana
I think you have done an amazing job of working with them and I hope that you will have continued success .any successes are a major victory for a community and you have my deepest respect and gratitude
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Qrez
calling a human an animal is an insult to other animals.
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james
Qrez... LOL...
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lee Gilliam
First of all "animals" don't traffic in drugs, sex slaves, murder, torture etc. So it is an offence to call dangerous, depraved humans animals.
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james
Animals not traffic, slaves, murder, torture? Animal is driven by "carnal nature". All humans possess a part of them selves called this "carnal nature". A human mind that is controlled by a childish, egotistical animal nature. ~Read (standing in your own way-by Anthony D.) ~ has no business reeking egotistical havoc on society. When this animal / beast (biblical language) get a hold of & controls the most powerful computing device known to humans (the human mind). That becomes animalistic AND becomes such. An animal. This still has no bearing that some ppl just have minimal to no cooth in public speaking.
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JanBerry
From the beginning of time we the people fell from grace and we disobeyed God and chose to be separated from The Creator and now we worm our way around and take it for granted our true nature so we act lime animals cause basically it is our nature and we decide to travel thru life acting like this and base our character upon this animal to reach the goals we have.in life ?
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Judy Riggenbach
THE problem here is our President has no respect for anyone. He is immature and name calls constantly to belittle others and to try to sway others to seeing all things from his point of view. Gang members are out of control and behave "Like" wild animals THere is a difference. While i understand where the President is coming from in this case HE repeatedly puts tags on others, "Slippery" "crooked" etc. and this i find disgraceful behavior for a supposedly intelligent, supposedly mature, supposed Christian. My Dad had a personal religion based relationship with Trumps father . He too lack a mature control of his thoughts and temper. I find our president egoism, hatred of others and wish to retaliate on all who don't bow to his view dangerous and disgusting.
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Lorraine McDade
The President did nothing wrong. The biblical word would be "beast" - The Man that is in honor and understands not, is like THE BEAST that perish". Beasts (Animals) are carnally (enmity against God") motivated men who have no spiritual understanding and are motivated by the same instincts as the animals.
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james
Lorraine... Exactly... Beast / animal. Potatoe / patatoe ~ Tomato / tamato. Lets ask what many would call ISIS decapitating ppl live on the internet?
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Ruth
It's worse in the presidents case because he is supposed to be a leader to aspire to and trust in. He is a NY gangster thug - an animal by your own definition. I've been dealing with his "politics" for decades.
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John
I think I understand the President's sentiments. MS 13 gang members conduct themselves like raging animals except that animals usually kill for food. Maybe the insertion of the word "like" would have changed the reception of his message, but regardless of his exact message it is difficult for me to stand in my shoes without feeling for the parents, sons, daughters of any man or woman these gang members killed without thinking of them as if they were animals. They certainly are not civilized.
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Alan j Neubert
How about just scum or human debris?
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Hank Ayer
We are too soft on these criminals. Just read Luke 17:2. Even Jesus recognized the trouble in store for members of gangs and groups of thugs like MS-13; purposefully misleading their youth to commit horrendous acts to be recognized as a member. People forget that Christ not only came to love, but to "cast fire and guard it as it blazes."
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Professor
Who gives a crap what people say. Controlling speech is un-American, hypocritical, tyrannical and dangerous. People who are easily offended always turn out to be great hypocrites who promote using force to silence others they don't agree with.
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james
Well stated professor... Where is the FB type thumbs up on here?
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David
Who Would Jesus Hate? My Bible says only rich men, bankers, and tax collectors. It doesn't mention Mexicans.
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bill
How about any person , that has n't been born again. Unless, you have been born again , you won't love God and his Son. You must be Born Again!!
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james
Who should hate who (or what)? Bankers? tax collectors? this person, that person, This color, that race, this taste? that flavor? We all have our vices, we all have our personal choices who / what we may dislike. Jesus had his, you have yours. The mindset remains the same "hate".
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John Owens
It's so funny reading all you bleeding heart liberals trying to defend MS 13, NOT because you care about people, but because you hate Trump, and that is only because he beat Hillary. You really need a reality check.
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james
Humans are all animals. AKA, mammals. Maybe it would be a bit more politically correct to call a homorectus animalistic in action, animalistic in nature with an animalistic mindset, with an ending in animilisitc manifestations. What did many call the catholic priest that took liberties w/ boys? A jerk is a jerk, a donkey is a donkey. If one thinks, lives, acts and manifests animalistic tendencies and treats others animalistic? So be it, they are animals. To label criminals & bad do'ers names. it may not be top notch proper to spill out such labels by one so high up in power. Not all animals have cooth in public.
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mark marcelis
Killing innocent people including children. Yes, I hate them.
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Ruth
To understand nature one has to study it. Animals will certainly kill for food. Chimps are known to murder other members of their group. The difference is humans are scientifically animals but one would think we would be organized as a society better than we are. Even ants, who are very organized, take care of each other from beginning to end and in battle. They will carry the last dead ant off the field. Humans can lack empathy. Develop their own justice. Make mistakes. We are all learners. Do we condemn a man for his actions no matter how heinous if there is hope for redemption? Is there always hope? If we give up our faith and lose our hope we are losing humanity. But for those that commit these crimes they must face their choices either by law, by afterlife, by Karma, by God, or by having to repeat their mistakes until the journey of self-actualization is fulfilled. Ideology and the reasons people do what they do is complicated.
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Tom B
Ruth...i agree; especially your last sentence...in a sense, the expression "those that ignore the past are doomed to repeat it", is a part of karma...if people would acknowledge that all of us are on varying paths of karma, then it would be easier to accept what appears to be "inhumanity"...it is not easy, as exemplified by the Nazis...Peace...Tom
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mark marcelis
They’re animals
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Keoni Ronald May
In 1974, I worked at a very bad prison.
The crimes that the inmates committed, against their helpless victims, were horrendous.
What they did to other prisoners, inside that prison, were horrendous.
They will always be animals to me.
Only animals mutilate & butcher people.
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mark marcelis
so ruth compare ms-13 to Trump? Get real. These people are murdering women and children. I'm not the lamb waiting for slaughter. I identify the problem in front of me. It's not trump.
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Nfmomof3
Technically we are ALL animals.
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Jeff M
What is lost on many is the assumption that, in the US, most people, even atheists, are exposed to the 10 Commandments and the assumption is made that other societies or groups operate with some similar sense of goodness or guidance. This is totally false and “blissful ignorance”. Those that preach the “human animals” do not exist are the fortunate who have never, in their lives seen real evil. “Animals” are being berated to equate the actions of a species that can think, plan, feel consequences and know right from wrong to the instinctual actions of animals surviving by killing to eat and mating when opportunity is present. Animals are far nobeler than the human genetic misfits that rape,murder, torture for enjoyment or personal gain or satisfaction. For those that talk of “people being called animals is unholy or degrading” needs to take their conversation from the comfortable confines of a cocktail party and take themselves to any of the Central or South American countries, without escort or protection, and take their opinions from theory to reality, if they should survive the field trip. If a Passport is not in their possession, simply take yourself to Chicago, Cleveland, Baltimore, Detroit.....you get the picture...you will be searching for a far more scorching adjective than “animals”...
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thematrixfiles
Each person is created on the image of God. With grace and love we can grow to love one another. Let us pray for one another.
Hate the sin not the sinner.
This sort of sentiment gets people killed.
Jesus taught turn the other cheek,was he calling out God for sending the children of Israel into the promised land with instructions to kill every man woman and child so they could have the land? Clearly the creator of all things thought less of the Canaanites because of their deeds and did not feel they were on an equal standing with the Israelites! Here is one thing I do know when MS 13 moves in next door we will all hide our sons and daughters,we ain't showing up at their door with a pie!
How would you have treated the Apostle Paul, before his conversion. He was a serial killer!
People are humans no matter how bad the sin is they're committing.
There's not much hope of a person that acts as MS 13 gang members do, to convert.
Paul may have been a serial killer but that's much diffrent than fulfilling the evil path of the demons of satan.
So, George, Paul's serial killing of every Christian that he could lay his hands on and even traveling to Damascus to kill more of them didn't qualify, according to you, as fulfilling the evil path of the demons of Satan? Some MS 13 gang members and other gang members and Hell's Angels and other outlaw motorcycle gang members have already been converted and brought out of their way of thinking and living, as have former German Nazis and American neo-Nazis, Satanists, Ku Klux Klansmen and other white racists, Black Muslims and other black racists, Mafia hitmen, serial killers, and many other once hateful (now loving) people!! That doesn't sound as though there is really "not much hope" for these people!! Nobody is beyond the power and reach of God to transform!!
If one looks at other writings one will understand that Saul was in contention with the actual deciples after he became Paul. Paul was more an apostate than apostle, I'm not saying that he was trying to subvert but if one reads his epistles to the churches subversion can be found, One example is him saying it is better to mary than to burn but the best is to not have any thing to do with women (parapharsing). For those thinking I'm against the church, which one I ask? The one started by Jesus with his disiples or the one began by war (By this sign you will conquer) as in Constantine? The church as we know it was started by someone subsuming a belief that was becoming more and more popular and was a thorn no pun intended inRomes' side. In my opinion Paul was doing the best he knew how but he took into his own hands what was not his to do JUDGEMENT and I believe that is why the churchs' teachings lean more towards guilt and fear than what the Cathars and othes who taught and teach which is The WAY of (comming from) the son of God. as we all are sons and daughters of God!
Ecclesiastes 3:19
Amen these people are legions of the devil and as the devil was cast out so should they be they have opportunity to receive Jesus and have chosen the other path
Maybe if we did show up with a pie, healing could start. The only thing that defeats hate is love.
Good gods! You certainly are naive......smh.
Amalie the gesture is nice but as a law enforcement officer I have seen first hand the actions of gang members in our society especially MS-13. If you showed up at their door with a pie you would either most likely become a victim yourself either in the sex trafficking trade or brutally attacked by a machete. It's sad but that's how these members act out. These are not the only gangs that act out though there is also the Bloods and the Crips. Of these I do believe that MS-13 is the worst. They live and treat others savagely.
Turn the other cheek is referring to fellow Christians, not to unbelievers.
really?
Nice one!! Look...if I'm in a pub and a bloke hits me....I get up off floor and say hit the other cheek and he does.......my jaw is broken now....do I get up and ask him to him me again??? Obviously not.....so I say yeah....if the other guy is a GOOd guy give him another shot....which he'll probably not do as has come to senses.....MOST PEOPLE howerver are NOT GOOD GUYS......I contend that most people are stupid unempathic unaware greedy thieveing people......and \I'll hit them before they hit me.....they'rs mostly 'MAD' if you use my definition of mad.....
I'm not sure what you mean. People are already being killed by MS 13. Murdering a person is one thing. Hacking a person apart, decapitation, ripping the heart out, and other forms of torture is acting worse than an animal.
Exactly, people like this that are called animals is an insult to animals.
Dang, I was going to write the same thing. Animals are actually superior to humans. Animals aren't inherently cruel and intentionally inflict violence on other species, including their own.
I was thinking the same thing. BTW man is an animal by definition and only one of two in the animal kingdom that kills for fun.
Canadian Yankee: Are you aware people hunt to feed their families? The circle of LIFE.
MS 13 are not hunting to feed their families.. Actually they aren't even hunting. They are brutally killing and abusing other humans. This doesn't occur in the animal kingdom so it is an insult to animals.
That's right. Stick to it, Bob.
Bob i am with you hate the sin not the person and if someone wants to say anything about gods peace too all
OK, I'm with you. I hate their killing and dismembering of people and also taking into account the rape and crime they commit within the community.
You're correct God's peace for all even includes those that were ttortured and murdered just for fun and controlling by fear.
So you're suggesting that we only pray that all these gang members will recognize that they are bad and will convert. Do you really feel that will happen? I don't.
I think we must look at the context in which they were raised. Their reasons for doing what they do are known only to them. If I practice love with no judgement then I have to forgive them. I don't have to condone what they do and I will be careful when dealing with them but if I am to be true to my beliefs I cannot place them lower than anyone else because this life is what they were raised in and it is all they know.
If you blame everything on the Past, then there is no future. The assumption is that they have no choice, no path to improve. God did give people the choice and if they refuse to make that choice, we are not required to assist them. So the next step would be; Wendy have YOU actively reached out to the MS-13 to help them realize they are making bad decisions? If not, then there is little you can say about them in a positive way.
You are aware that thousands of animals are killed every year to have their remains put up on a wall or stuffed as a show piece in the den. I have hunted for the past 70 years and I only take what i will eat and I have no problem with that. Trophy hunters are not sportsman in my opinion but rather killers.
The encouragement we received is “Love one another as I Have loved you”. Often, we do not understand the characterization “One Another”. We do not Judge, God is our judge. Whether we hear the term “Animal” or the term “Sinner”, it is not our role to judge. Our role is to uphold our beliefs. We seek out and Worship God.
Im with you on this
We as Christians if that's Who I write to can Not walk to an Fro in mans world an not make judgments about evil deeds or false teachers using trickery n lies to take our sight off of Jesus, The Bible tells us This. in the old testament an the new. We should not judge others by appearance but use right judgment about their deeds an their intent. Good or Evil ?How is one to know if they don't use Right judgment.? "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24). we are to judge, because He says, "Judge righteous judgment." So we are to make judgments, but when we do judge, we're to judge righteously. Now go in peace an Pray for POTUS he is our nations leader That's what GOD SAYS to Do. Also I have the Definition of animal. It is AS SUCH// •a person whose behavior is regarded as devoid of human attributes or civilizing influences, especially someone who is very cruel, violent, or repulsive. NOW TRUMP as I see it USED Righteous Judgment an Used the Appropriate Word to define their Actions an behavior. AMEN
Righteous Judgment is exactly right. The Bible does not say "don't judge", is says, "don't be a hypocrite".
You can not petition the Lord with prayers. You petition the Lord with deeds. Only God can dispatch the wicked and only he can choose the method of the dispatch.
So are you suggesting that the Lord can't use man, a man, to dispatch evil as the Lord see fit?
If you were talking to Me ,I say GOD uses All his tools to Dispatch Evil people ,He also Burdens an may torment some So they are in a place to be Saved Just like he did with Saul Who became Paul the Apostle
Ricardo, it's my feelings, only mine, that reaching a hand out to these people would only get it chopped off. Would one be stupid enough to try and hand a hunk of raw meat to a hungry lion without fear of becoming part of the meal?
You may be careless enough to but not I. If you're so offended by the name calling and negative labeling how do suggest we convert them. Perhaps we should build them a church so they will have a place to repent and change their ways. Just thinking out loud.
And how does that solve the problem? You can only rectify a situation by first identifying it and then acting.
How is it that we don't become enraged when someone, metaphorically, rapes and ruins another individual financially, spiritually or emotionally? These people put their hands on someone literally yet there are so many people that put their "hands" on people without touching them and completely change the trajectory of that individual's life......
Wendy you are so correct and we should become outraged at this form of personal assassination especially when aimed at the elderly. Society has created labels, crimes, and punishments for this behavior known as White collar crime, scams, and muggings. However, the above mentioned crimes pale in comparison to the actions of gangs in our society. Not only do they create the same conditions you're speaking of but they add their own twist of sadistic pleasure. The
Sure dehumanize your opponents. This poor excuse of a president loves to divide. Sure they break the law, go after them but they are still humans.
Mara Salvatrucha are barely human. They came from El Salvador where they already rape, torture and murder innocent people and brought it to the states, and elsewhere. Known for extortion, human trafficking, murder, assaults, drug smuggling and a litany of other crimes globally. Sombra Negra in El Salvador are right in carrying out extra judicial executions when they catch these guys. People are legit getting mad at someone for calling one of the most brutal gangs in existence today 'animals'. That's insane.
Ah, another case of severe TDS. Must have the current POTUS confused with the last one. Think about it. Its not a case of breaking the law, with MS13 and similar gangs, its a matter of carrying out the dictates of satan. Pure evil.
Pablo why do you feel that by pointing out how bad gangs are and how much of a negative impact they have on portions of society; you call that as being divisive?
Are these thoughts your own or part of a larger Group Think?
Ya Know it is funny how some will state the the word animal was used. anyone who murders like they do are animals ya turn the other cheek, but an eye for an eye is also true when one of this MS13 kills one of you own then things change.. I know that thou shalt not judge or you shall be judge. I do not believe that the lord god almighty will be mad at me. because he has forgiven me and raised me up to his arms
Humans belong to the biological kingdom Animalia, so all people, including gang members, are animals. However, Trump's use of the word "animals" is more of an insult to other-than-human animals than it is to MS-13.
All people are capable of change and forgiveness. I would call them animals as well, but animals don't do the things hese people allegedly do. What I say is God has his plan and even unwilling these people are playing their part. Some of them may change. They may ask for forgiveness and it is granted regardless of what was commited when we commit ourselves to Christ we are forgiven. So no they are not animals they are people. we do not have to like them but we should learn to love them. Love if anything will turn them to our Lord, not calling them names.
If all gang members were dead, then all would be well.
Being a thug or being involved in animalistic behaviour would warrant such a title, bible refers to some as heathens, Jesus did say you can judge a tree by its fruits. Ephesians 5 11 says much about people we should avoid. I truly believe we can love people and acknowledge them as a child of God, or a child of the universe dispite them living like an animal, maniac,lunatic, pervert whatever their sin is. But calling it like it is should not be looked down on. The truth is still the truth. Look at all the auful things our president gets called on a daily basis. We cannot deny there is tremendous distraction that is derived from hate and fear. Can you hate a man for calling a gang member a thug ,animal or terrorist when in fact the gang they represent is notorious for savage acts of violence? How do you hate one moment and then claim ritiousness the next ?When that member leaves that animalistic lifestyle they would not be referred to as such. We as ministers must keep to truth and not allow ourselves to be so distracted by hate and fear. It is very sad that for whatever reason, some people have become animals. We must continue to love and represent that but still discern truth and when someone is being an animal call it like it is.. it does not mean we hate them. We are sad for them, for the creator and for their families as well as the families who suffer because of their actions. I hope they can one day find Ballance in their life. And may God have mercy on their souls for the hurt they put on others.
Sorry they are animals They have no remorse for what they do and celebrate their crimes within their circle of evil. They violate every principle of the bible. They commit mortal sins and do not repent. God swept the earth clean and started over due to these type of actions.
I agree. I think even sometimes animals have remorse, but these people have no remorse. They are animals.