Fifty Shades of Sin

joestutler

I've not read nor watched 50 Shades...not my cup of tea. A few comments, though, on this article. The term "unnatural" doesn't fit. If it was truly "unnatural", it wouldn't occur. Let's not conflate BDSM with abuse. What goes on between mature, informed, consenting adults is between them. Remember, too, that no one religious faith, nor denomination of any faith, holds full authority of what is acceptable with regard to sexuality (or anything else) outside of their own faith/denomination. Just as I do not ceed authority over my diet, clothing choices, and so on to any faith authority outside my own, so too my sexuality not something I ceed to another. Abuse, whether sexual or physical or emotional, or psychological, is never appropriate. That's not a faith-based issue, although faiths may choose to weigh in on such issues. No, it is a human rights issue, pertaining to all. I need no gospel to tell me right from wrong, no deity to bribe, cajole, or threaten me into do unto others as I would have them do unto me. Human Rights and human decency transcends faith. Ana and Christian are fictional, and need nothing. E.L. James may or may not need gospels...not my call. Not yours, either. You are not my keeper, nor my master, but merely my fellow traveler. At best, you may be my equal. I'm good with that. Hopefully, you are, too.

Chris Coulson

I have not needed to see the movie in order to hear about what is going on. I just personally seen the evidence on a friend that was sexually abused by a man that got his kicks by beating women. God put women on earth to be a helper to man and for us to show them God's love not to be beat or sexually abused in anyway shape or form. I think that guys that go around treating women like this guy needs to be locked up in prison and the key thrown away. I believe that we all could have those type of actions if we don't keep a tight rein on ourselves and stand on the strength of God and His word to help us control such urges. It doesn't matter what u call the devil if we act like this then he is our master and not God. I truly hope that people will start seeing this movie for what it is and really start speaking out against it to the point that movie makers will stop making movies that exploit people whether it's men or women. If we as true Christians don't stand up and band together then nothing will I believe ever change as we are suppose to be the salt of the earth and not bow down to the devil but stand strong wearing the whole armor of God and defeat evil with Gods power and His word. For in Christ we are more that concquers.

mary

wrong you are misusing the word natural. according to God the natural man is not something found in nature, it is the raw, untamed or not domesticated man. in other words that which goes against the wild and untamed is natural. that which is carnal is natural. those are the ways we should not be doing things, when you have a natural wild apple tree the fruit is not edible or good, the domesticated apple tree which has been grafted and nurtured has the good fruit on it. this is what God intends us to be doing in our lives, which is being civilized, not raw and barbaric.

Ellen Limburg Santistevan

As a health care practitioner who is "sex-positive", and as someone also who (a) has not seen the movie (b) has read an interview with the author and (c) is strongly against abuse in all forms, I will comment: first of all, 50 Shades was first written as Twilight fan fiction. It is one woman's sexual fantasy. Many people fantasize about things they would never actually want in real life. The BDSM community is perfectly correct in pointing out that there is NO CONSENT; again, the author's fantasy did not include consent, it was her personal fantasy of rape and violation ending in pleasure -- and I must emphasize again, many people fantasize about things that are unacceptable in reality. I was under the impression that the ULC was not judgmental about sexuality. I guess I was mistaken.

Mark

While I think calling BDSM "unnatural" isn't exactly true as it is just a opinion I have to agree with several points in the article. For starters coerced or forced sex is rape. Paint it any color and put any label on it but it is still rape. Now BDSM in general I support only if it is with consent. If two adults love each other and want to try it I say good for them as long as they are safe and trust each other. The idea however that this movie glorifies rape and people just sit and watch and don't say anything heavily concerns me. However this is a bit of a catch 22. I mean think about it. Any person or persons should have the right to make any movie or book they want providing it doesn't break any laws. So would I boycott this movie? No. At the very least though I do think people should really think about it and try to understand why the relationship shown in the movie is unhealthy.

Spanky

i have seen it and read the books and its not violence against women that alone is an ignorant comment. its vice versa 1 plays the dominate role weather male or female and 1 plays the submissive role, when people make love to there partners(wives) doesn't 1 take the dominate role and 1 submissive its the exact same thing..

Amy Isbell

I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M READING! WHO ARE ANY OF YOU TO JUDGE THIS MOVIE? THIS IS A UNIVERSAL NON-DENOMINATIONAL CHURCH HERE! WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE AND SHOULDN'T EVEN BOTHER EXPRESSING OPINIONS ON WHETHER OR NOT WE APPROVE. A MOVIE IS A MOVIE, A BOOK IS A BOOK! WHAT DOES IT MATTER- IT'S FICTION! YOU CAN EITHER CHOOSE TO READ/WATCH IT OR NOT, IT'S A SIMPLE CHOICE.

I joined this ministry under the impression that everyone, regardless of whom they are and what they do are loved and respected, so for anyone out there that CHOOSES a life such as BDSM, Fantasy/Role Play, etc.-whatever it may be - IT IS THEIR CHOICE!

LEAVE IT ALONE! LEAVE THE BOOK ALONE, LEAVE THE MOVIE ALONE, AND DON'T JUDGE E.L. JAMES FOR WRITING IT, THAT DOES NOT MEAN ANY OF THEM "NEED THE GOSPEL".

Alicia

I have a real problem with the books first because they were so poorly written. Because of this, I have no desire to see the movie.

Now....it's my opinion that the whole S&M thing is NOT to be considered "rape" or "abuse" as long as it is consensual. It is my understanding (and this is also touched on in the first 50 Shades book) that the partners have "safe words" and "safe actions" (if words are not able to be used). If consensual, it's NOT rape as long as the rules are put forth beforehand and are followed.

One big issue, though is the fact that this guy was a control freak who stalked this girl. It boggles the mind when I hear women say "Christian Grey is the ideal boyfriend". Seriously???? You want a guy who will follow you with GPS to know where you are at all times? He also had absolutely no confidence in this girl's ability to fend for herself in life or in a professional setting. After all, he manipulated people to get her a job and then bought the company for her.

This is a sick individual with low self-esteem....not exactly what I would consider "boyfriend material". It sickens me to see that some women want to be controlled in this way.

As for the whole "should this be banned" debate: No...not at all. As adults, we should be able to make our own decisions on what to read or what movies to watch. Not everyone is Christian. Not everyone has the same beliefs when it comes to sex and love. Live and let live. If you don't like it, don't read/see it. But, whether you love it or hate it, don't push your beliefs on others, especially if you have never read the books or seen the movie. How can anyone form an opinion without doing either?

Jedi

This article comes off as judgmental and preachy to me.but I can't deny how common these fats are among people who have been thinking about and talking about this movie. Lots of folks from strong fundamentalist Christians to the I'll BDSMCommunity are saying that this movie is bad news. That means something to me and it is something we should certainly take notice of. On the other hand, I am the sort to determine what offends me for myself and there is some curiosity to see the film and find out what all of the talk is about. Anyone who has seen the filmany comments?

Tricia

A couple of friends gave me the book and I found it hard to read firstly because it is written with too many repetative phrases which made me suspect the education of the writer and wonder if she was even aware of domestic abuse and how it happens . BDSM aside the character Christian Grey takes advantage of an innocent virgin being in love with him knowing she will do anything to please him and uses this against her - there is financial abuse, emotional abuse which leads to physical abuse that he makes her believe she wants. If this was a real couple or if he had less money the abuse would be obvious to us. He stalks her, monitors her every move, follows her, co-erces her, financially controls her until her very independence no longer exists. It is an unequal relationship and no love story. In fact it is the exact opposite of a love story. He is abused as a child and the story wrongly makes you believe that her love will fix him - when we can only ever fix and heal ourselves. A partner adds to your love it is not there to fix your abuse - that creates a pedestal which both will ultimately fall from. A dangerous message to give young couples. The movie has no place as a romantic film. It is dangerous for young women to think that this kind of relationship is normal or one to seek out. I know from personal experiences I have met many Mr.Greys and I avoid dating them now as they give out huge red flags as domestic violence abusers. These red flags can be seen from date one so there is no date two anymore for me. The book 'How to spot a Dangerous Man' is a better read and Christan Grey red flags a lot of the 9 dangerous man's profiles in it. In the film she was unable to see the huge red flags. We should teach all women and men how to avoid bad dates and relationships by watching this film and doing the exact opposite of what it shows. Use this film as an opportunity to learn how women fall in love with domestic abusers and controllers and you will maybe learn some compassion for those women who constantly get asked 'why do you stay with him when he abuses you?' - now you know why. They are groomed and brainwashed by the love-bombing and lies. Forever more she will yearn for the days when he was romantic and gave her 'vanilla sex' but all she will be controlled to have is crumbs of emotionless attention from him until her soul will cry out for love. That is the only real sequal to a film like this. For goodness sake - at the end of the book there is a bible for abusers - don't look the abuser in the eye, walk behind him at all times, speak when spoken to etc..... don't be fooled by those who make this film out to be BDSM it is a film about how abusers control victims using romance, money and gifts to manipulate. If she ever left him how do you think he would react? Would he let her? Or would he chase her around attacking her boyfriends and lovebombing her again? I think the latter. Poor girl will never get away from him without police help now.

Karen

I have heard people who liked the movie and books then some who felt they were wrong abusive. Personally I have no inclination to read the books or see the movie. I was a victim of abuse when I was younger. I feel they are both being mistreated doing this movie. And for Dakota Johnson to state on the red carpet to her mother you will watch this movie was dead wrong and inappropriate. We are not suppose to judge others this is true. But the way this young actress embarrassed her mother in public hurt me. This world can be a sad place at times.

Catherine

I am Frankly surprised that such dreadful fan-fiction would become popular.

For a fictional depiction of a BDSM relationship frankly "Nana To Kaoru" is WAY! more realistic and better at emphasising key issue like safety.

That being said the best introduction anyone can have is simply to simply attend a BDSM workshop arranged by the local BDSM community...

There is usually something going on. commonly on the theme of safety or something like Japanese shibari rope bondage (which again requires some knowledge of safety so one dose not sensitive nerves or cut of blood flow...).

Personally i love attending Ponyplay events in a park close to where i live. (great exercise and lots of fun.. and is more fun then sexual in nature (yes you can divorce kink from sex))

Jessica DeFranco

I loved 50 shades! It isn't about rape or violence against women st all, whoever wrote this article has missed the point all together. There are 1000s of ppl who are into bdsm, it's not unnatural. I bet ppl, religious ppl, used to say any position other than missionary was unnatural too.

Mary

This film is nothing more or less then porn. The book lasted 1 minute in my hand in the book store. This film is sick. Hospitals have been swamped with injured women and men who tried to mimic one of the stunts. Saten is having a field day. This is all the time I will devote to this film of sexual abuse, physical, emotional, & spiritual.

Ursula Wickham

And here I thought I became a part of something where we chose to be non-judgemental. This post about FSOG really bothers me as well as the comment that FICTIONAL characters need the gospel. Really? They're fictional. As to the author, NOPE not her either. We are not to say what she needs. Am I personally bothered by how she portrayed the BDSM lifestyle, yes because she turned it into abuse, not the loving, healing, CONSENSUAL lifestyle it can be, and for a lot of people - IS. This is not about the sins of the flesh, because wouldnt all non-missionary position, and non-procreation sex then be considered sins of the flesh? Smh. I'm deeply disappointed in this article and that an organization that I chose to be a part of for their "openness" would post it, as well as inundate the article with what "we christians" should think or feel. Do you not find it ironic that the abusive male characters name is Christian? The irony is not lost on me. He's a controlling, manipulative, self-serving abuser - yep sounds about right to me when naming that - Christian and making him the overall symbol and face of something the writer of this piece clearly doesn't understand. It's a blanket generalization much like my comment is, but if that's what the writer deems ok, then I'm going to play on that field to make a point - just clarifying before someone names it hypocrisy.

I am in the BDSM lifestyle and it's done more for me in six months than being judgemental and making assumptions ever did. I must go now and contemplate whether I want to continue representing this organization.

Mat McCall

What goes on between two consenting adults is up to them. So long as no one is exploiting, coercing or victimizing the other then,as Mrs. Campbell said; "Does it really matter what these affectionate people do — so long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses?" As for "sex games" well, personally it's not my thing, but whatever floats your boat, Finally...what's God or religion got to do with it? Really? I think someone much wiser than me once said; The Priest's role is in the pulpit not in the bedroom. And what the Hell are we bothered about what law abiding consenting adults are up to in the privacy of their own bedrooms when the world is full of child exportation and child sex abuse, rape, sexual exploitation and sex trafficking, child pornography and sex slavery? I believe God is not Homophobic, nor does He care if you like having your whatits tickled with a feather duster while wearing your wife's nickers. What he will judge us on is whether we are more concerned with condemning that than facing up to and stopping child abuse.

Anita

How can you have an opinion on something if you don't know the facts? You can't! If you haven't read the three books you do not know what you are talking about when you drone on about the bad things in the books. Yes, these books contain graphic sexual exploits but NO they do not contain abuse or beatings. I know many women who claim to be good christians but I met them at a sex toy party! Sex is as natural as breathing but there is a lot more to it than just an orgasm. This entire blog post is laughable because of the inaccuracies in it.

James

BDSM isn't bad per se, if it is explored consensually and the practitioners safely respects each others boundaries it is a way to explore power dynamics in the relationship. It is when any practice, sexual or otherwise, takes on a life of its own and become the practitioners sole means to achieve some form of satisfaction and/or blocks intimacy (unexamined emotional needs) that it has become idolatrous and a impediment to experiencing the fullness of life and the joy the universe offers.

dave

I don't think the author of this article read the books.

Here's a spoiler for those who haven't....Christian and Anastasia come to love each other for the more noble parts of their character, marry, have kids and move away from the obsessive kink.

The trilogy IS a story of redemption. Read stuff before spewing your intolerant nonsense.

There was no rape in the movie, no non consensual sex, no non consensual physical contact! (at least between Christian and Anastasia, except when Christian actually intervenes to save Anastasia from such)

Nice platform for proselytizing, on the coattails of a popular movie, but when you do so in ignorance, it is probably wasted effort in my opinion.

Lisa Murdock

This comment is about the article, since I have no personal experience of either thr book or the movie. (I probably should correct that lack) You state more than once that we are "slaves to our flesh", I disagree. Our spirits may be held by our flesh, and thus imprisoned by it. but that does not make it our Master. As I understand it, the piece is about making him "hit bottom" before he can be redeemed. May I mention that this is exactly the same philosophy as AA holds? Should you come out against them in a similar manner, I will point out the logical fallacy there as well, In the end, this is FICTION, not a guide to life, but one person's possible story. Metaphoricay, most here houses built upon stone and are always ready to take in have foolishly built on the sands and teach them how to rebuild better. Moralizing is rarely effective. I should close by saying "Judge not, lest ye also be judged" Let's assume I did. grins

tommiematherne

I would be interested in piecing together a full rebuttal of this in light of the book/movie from the other side of the aisle for consideration, can I be sent information on how to submit such an article via email?

David

I'm surprised to see this article here. I thought I was on a different website for a minute. What's crazy to me is that so many people have such strong opinions on something they didn't watch. Not only did they not watch the movie, they did not read the books that led to the movie. I would continue but since those who I'm responding to have based their opinion on what they think is in the book. I'll stop.

Diana Turner-Forte

Thank you for voicing your thoughts on "Shades of Grey." I have not seen it, read the book or intend to view either. I teach classical ballet to little girls, instilling in them a sense of personal pride, self-respect, reverence for self (body, mind, and spirit) and love for all. It reaches beyond the training of of a dancer. I've had to more conscientious in the past few years because, I feel because of Internet and other unsupervised advertisements and television, young people are being exposed to things way before they are armed mature enough to discern the choices; and girls especially are being exploited. I believe a deeper discussion might be advantageous. Why would any movie take precedence over our relationship with our neighbor, a conversation with a friend or a walk in nature? There are much bigger issues closer to home having to do, at least in part, with how or what kind of society can we create that fosters a genuine love for all, based on our love for inner self, the greater good and whole.

Tricia

Some people have a problem separating fiction from fantasy and that is why problems occur such as partners trying out porn on their lovers expecting it to be like the fantasy film they saw. This film mixes fiction and reality up.

Reality

BDSM: is real and you could copy the film but are safer looking it up at sites that know more about it and show it how it is done in real life. The relationship should be equal to try this - theirs is not.

Christian Grey : is a real profile type - he is recognised by victims as a psychopath, narcissist, stalker, domestic violence abuser in his mannerisms, controlling behaviour and manipulation techniques of someone that is less sexually experienced, and less financially secure than him, she is an unequal partner and he takes away her independence making her dependant on him. This type of man or woman should be avoided in real life.

Fiction

A love story: This is not a real life scenario. Personality types like Christian Grey do not make healthy relationships they abuse their partners.

Childhood abused cured by a girlfriend's love: The kind of abuse that this personalty type has leaves them unable to love anyone even themselves. Any cure is only done by themselves or they find God (rare). In reality women that stay with men like this and try to 'cure' them with love only get abuse back so the film is fictional on this aspect.

And so take the whole film as a work of fiction. Even though it calls upon real life scenarios they do not play out in the real world the way it is portrayed in this film.

It is only dangerous is you take it as a work of reality because you are in the first stages of being with an abuser and imagine this is how your future will play out with them in real life. And this is why victims of abuse are trying to warn young women about the film. I couldn't care less if you watch this film or not but if you recognise your partner as a Christan Grey type - run for the hills - as fast as you can, don't look back, don't miss the gifts, the holidays, the money - he's not worth it.

JAMES Lowrance

I can only say this: to label differing opinions as being judgmental is in of itself judgmental.The saying “Judge not, lest ye also be judged” is used by those who live and act differently and do not want to be accountable for their actions. Our society has reached the point where disagreeing with other peoples way of life is considered being hateful and bigoted. Commenting and expressing these opinions is now labeled offensive. The atheists, LGBT and femfascist groups who go about labeling everyone that oppose them as haters are themselves haters,bigots and judgmental hypocrites. If you want to label me as a troll,fine I do not fear you.

Diane Baum

I have read the books, but have not seen the movie. The books gave me enough facts to know that had Grey been wearing dungarees, living in a trailer and drinking Miller beer, the responses here would be wholly different. Underneath the seduction of the wealth shown in the movie, is a moral evil. Satan does not come bearing brimstone and hellfire, he comes seductively. Why else would so many people fall victim to his requests? Eve did not eat the apple because she was forced into it, but rather, she was convinced that it was the right thing to do. This book/movie does the same thing. It takes what we know to be "wrong," namely control, power and how to use it, and tells us that it is right. Why? Because the Knight in Shining Armor here has money to buy whatever he wants to, including using materials to gain a woman's attention first, then wields his power to keep it. I have read all of the "but he was hurt, he hit bottom, she 'saved' him" excuses. Guess what? I also though....THOUGHT... that I could save someone as well who had hit bottom. In the end, he brought us BOTH down! I never felt so used, dirty and degraded in my life. One more question: if Jesus and His Mother were your companions, would all three of you watch this together? Probably not. If you feel you couldn't watch it with them...maybe you also are better off not partaking in it alone.

Rev. D.H.Zielinski

I have not read the books nor will I see the movie. I do not choose to, but I know from life experience that this is just another form of perversion and pornography. Life and love in this world around us has become perverted enough it does not need encouragement to exist. The person who wrote the book is feeding the subculture in humanity that has truly perverted the act of Love. The meaning of love is not found in handcuffs and whips, multiple positions or blindfolds. True love, feeds off of the mutual respect, admiration and caring that two individuals have for each other. No where in any bible or Holy Book that I have ever read does it state that a natural love includes whips, blindfolds, chains or any of the "Fifty Shades of Perversion" that is highlighted in the book or movie. It's not a matter of "Judge not lest ye be judged" or any of the tripe that is included in the book or movie being Natural or unnatural". It is about the mutual respect and caring that comes when two individuals commit themselves one to the other in a fashion that culminates in the act of physical love. You can justify the book all you want, but it doesn't make it right or pleasing in the eyes of any God!

Wayne

This movie and the book are not something I would see or read. Causing fear or pain to someone you claim to love, is not love.

Rev. D.H.Zielinski

Alice, I was young once myself. As time has told, over my entire lifetime, I have read many books such as this. Some probably worse than this, though I always read them in the spirit of understanding and education. As an educator, a mother, a wife and as a ULC minister, I strive to grasp everything that I possible so that I can address questions that are put to me. Often times since becoming a minister, from couple seeking to be married. As a married woman myself, with four adult children and many, many years of experiences under my belt, I can safely say that this book is just like many I have read and the experiences within the book are like many I am familiar with. You can justify what is written about in this book by saying this is perfectly " normal and safe". It's all a matter of opinion. While you are of the opinion that this is "Normal and good" I am not. As you go forward in life with the expectation of experience you may or may not understand why I do not feel this is a type of "Love". This book describes a relationship that is a degenerative and perverted definition of what should be a beautiful thing. Not something you have to be blindfolded and chained up and whipped into submission to experience. I respect your opinion and I strongly defend your right to hold and voice that opinion.

MJ Burgess

I have read the book and I only got up to chapter 13 because it was a poorly written book. I went to see the movie hoping that it would be better than the book. As someone who is starting a film production company, I personally enjoyed the movie and I recommend it to anyone with an open-mind. And it may be surprising but I consider myself to be a devout Christian and I have been celebite for over 15 years. Do I find BDSM appealing? Not at all! But this is where sexual compatibility becomes important.

We need to keep in mind that there is a fine line between BDSM and violence - and that line is freedom of choice. If you watch the movie or read the book, Christian REQUIRES Ana to read and sign a contract before getting involved. Ana takes the contract and decides what she will and will not tolerate. And Christian has to RESPECT Ana's wishes. These are two consented adults! Sexual abuse and violence occurs when someone's rights has been violated and the victim's freedom of choice has been taken away.

However, I do see why many religious leaders find this disturbing and think this is encouraging violence against women. BDSM includes chains and whips! So even though some people think we are not in the position to judge, I feel we should not quiet people who feel they are voicing against what they think is wrong.

Shen

Let me start by stating that I have not seen 50 shades, nor read it, nor do I have any plan to. If what I have heard of it is accurate then it very poorly represents the BDSM culture, hedges upon abuse and rape and should not, ever be considered anything but a work of fantasy: meant to thrill, excite, incite and create many other strong emotions thus ensuring sales of books/tickets. As with most stories, you should not mistake them for reality, or assume that they accurately represent what they display. As one would not act out what is depicted in your average crime-thriller, you should not act out what is in 50 Shades, much of it would be dangerous, potentially immoral and possibly even illegal as well.

Beyond that, the reality of modern BDSM, at least in the circles I have traveled, all center around the concepts of the Exchange of Power and the use of Safe, Sane and Consensual behavior at all levels. The participants of such a relationship decide mutually what is and is not permitted within it, be it items used, or restriction of sexual acts, clothing choices, behavior, diet, etc. The point of this is that the submissive gets to choose how much they submit, what they are willing to do for a Dominant and how they would like to express submission. Any perceived force, any violence or corporal punishment is likewise discussed, negotiated and agreed upon. Some like light play, to be loosely bound, called naughty and lightly spanked while other might seek rougher displays of authority, tight bondage and to be paddled, flogged or cropped to the point of bruising or even beyond.

The critical point, is the freedom to choose what one wishes to explore and experience. As I have not seen or read 50 Shades, I do not know if the characters of the story reflect that.

Lea Weisenbach

I read 50 shades of Grey and it was a better read then this article. This was very offensive....I'm not a Christian and been a member of the U.U.C.for the last 20 years. We are not all Christians.

Zane

My wife and I read the three books and enjoyed them, we saw the movie last week, and enjoyed it also. We have been happily married for 29 years this month, we have 4 daughters and a son whom we have raised to be respectful but individuals. The books refreshed our love life and relationship, we don't hang from the ceiling or beat each other up, but we have a new perspective on what is fun between us. I personally love and respect women, they gave us life and nurtured us into adulthood. I would never take a hand to my wife or any woman. WHY? because I was raised to respect all people, men or women, gay, straight, If I watch a movie or read a book like FSOG, I don't race out and abuse woman, the same can be said for action or drama movies and books. I don't watch a Bruce Willis movie , then rush out and buy a gun yelling "Yipee kiah mutha %$^#@!".

People are already who they are, if they are so easily affected and encouraged by a film/book, they are going to act out what ever is in their heads already.

SPOILER ALERT: Final note, the trilogy of FSOG ends with marriage, children and undying love and affection between the two main characters. Their journey is unusual for most, but I believe it is Mr. Grey who is changed and controlled my Ana and her love. Look beyond the sex.

Love everyone people, respect them and their beliefs, as long as they respect you and yours.

The above rant is my personal opinion, right or wrong, that's how I roll.

Any and all complains will be ignored.

Peace to all.

Rev. D.H.Zielinski

After reading the comments and replies regarding this topic, I must say that I am surprised by the parties submitting comments. Our organization is one where we should be able to voice our opinions openly without fear of disdain or reproach from our fellow members. Instead I have seen people who have responded with their opinions being "bawled out" by their peers for their dissenting beliefs. Isn't the freedom to express ourselves why we came to the ULC to begin with? We should all be able to state our opinions without fear of retribution or punishment. While we all have the right to our personal preferences and beliefs, we all have the right to express those beliefs and in the ULC we should be able to share them with each other and not be mocked or put down for them.

Alicia

For those of you who have read the 50 Shades books, may I suggest one to go along with it? It's a parody called "The 50 Shames of Earl Gray". Absolutely hysterical and really shows how ridiculous the "originals" are. Sorry, but I forgot the author's name on this, but it's worth looking up.

CB

Every ten years or so some book or film comes out that has to do with these themes. First it was Story of O, then it was 91/2 Weeks, now it is Fifty Shades of Grey. They all have to do with bondage, domination, and similar themes. Isn't it interesting how this stuff cycles around. Makes one really wonder about the social engineering going on.

Sara Elizabeth Kolarik

This blog post is why I advocate for people to find their own path, perhaps one that has nothing to do with Christianity.

No one, and I mean no one ever, has the right to decide for me what I find pleasurable, romantic, loving, satisfying or anything of the like. What kind of religion is it that spats such hateful views in the name of the Lord, and condemns others for being happy with what they have? What was that? You don't have a good answer?

"Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my throat." ~author unknown

JohnMJr

I'm sort of curious, maybe someone can explain this to me. My questions are not about BDSM, they're about how can self proclaimed Christians be so judgmental. I say self proclaimed because my personal view on who and what a Christian is differs from the views and actions of a lot of those saying they are Christians.

Who granted anyone the right to define what "unnatural" is? Where in the bible does it state that some who likes to be tied up is a sinner? How about those that enjoy pain? How about those who enjoy giving up control? I'm not too familiar with the bible but I remember hearing a long time ago that it's a sin to have premarital sex, have sex other that to procreate, and have sex in any other position than missionary. Does that mean pleasure is a sin so anything that you enjoy is a sin? Where exactly did all the definitions of what a sin is come from? I know some are in the bible, like gluttony, jealousy, and desire. I desire to have a cheeseburger and have pleasure in eating it. So I am doomed? Where did it ever say in the bible that sex or pleasure was a sin of the flesh or even one of the deadly sins? Do you not desire the person you are with? There's lust right there, another deadly sin. Desire is lust isn't it?

It has been stated in this thread "Judge not least ye be judged". We will start with the basic questions. Have you read the book? Have you seen the movie? If not, whats the basis of your judgement? Is it based on hearsay? Is it based on judging a book by its cover? I have not read the books nor seen the movie, but I know someone who has done both and the acts are consensual. Who are we to judge what two people do with consent? As far as I know, only God can judge. An opinion is a judgement.

From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judgment

an opinion or decision that is based on careful thought

the act or process of forming an opinion or making a decision after careful thought : the act of judging something or someone

the ability to make good decisions about what should be done

Now the harder questions. What were your "careful thoughts" on passing judgement? What are your references?

I'm also curious how anyone who claims to be a true Christian can justify being ordained by ULC, which promotes equality in all religions and faiths. Exodus 22:18, "Put to death any woman who practices magic" or "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live". ULC accepts wiccans, pagans, and the occult. Freedom of all religions. "All" Doesn't mean to pick and choose. Can someone explain to me how a Christian can look at other religions as being evil yet become ordained by ULC which promotes equality among all religions and faiths? One of the reason I became ordained by ULC was because I believe in equality.

In reference to Exodus 22:18, it looks like it only references the female as being evil if they practice magic. A witch or sorceress is a woman. The male aspect, which isn't in the bible (I think), are warlock or sorcerer. Why is the bible so against women? Why are they beneath men? The bible pretty much says women are whores and/or are evil. Except Mary, but I don't really know that full story either.

The bible is interpreted by man from ancient scrolls, which some of the translation is lost. Also, many scrolls didn't survive. The bible is open to interpretation, that's why there are so many Christian faiths. That's why they broke off and formed their own church. Some even pick and choose what to follow. Some accept Jesus as our savior and some don't.

I leave you with this final question. How can anyone express an opinion about something and then get mad at others for doing the same? My opinion; 50 Shades is not up for you to judge, only to like or dislike. If you've read and/or seen the movie, then you can like or dislike it. If you know the culture (BDSM), then you can like or dislike. I've always been curious as to why people like or dislike something before they know what it is or anything about it.

Celelia Alexander

What consententing, informed n rational adults do, they have to be responsible for. Coericed, intimidating, non-concensual adult n esp. underaged sex needs to be met with the harshest penalties, if n when adequate, track-record mental health therapy is applied, taught and not followed. Penalties up to and including isolation from society, lobotomy n castration. I DESPISE PEDAPHILLIA N RAPE OF MALES AND/OR FEMALES...!!!

Celelia Alexander

The therapies could include traditional and non-traditional taking into consideration: Culture, environment n such.

JohnMJr

I access the internet from my cell so forgive me if my reply doesn't show up in sequential order.

Well Kevin, you completely missed the point. Maybe I didn't convey it as well as I hoped. Your article and replies have been nothing but hate and judgement. I asked questions so why could you not answer them? My very first post is at the end of this thread, where there too I asked questions. Anything I wrote that ended with a question mark was a question, not a judgement. So I'm curious how I've judged you. Does not a serpent spew hate? You have so there's the reference to your actions being that of a serpent. I have not judged you, just simply pointed out your actions of hate and judgement. I've called you out on it, exposing your hiding behind Christianity to justify being so hateful and judgemental. Pay close attention, my questions are; Who gave you the right to pass judgement on others? Who gave you the right to define what falls under sexual deviance? Is tying someone up and enjoying being with their loved one deviant? Who are you too judge what two people do? Have you read the 50 Shades books or seen the movie? Have you any personal knowledge of what BDSM is? Notice I never once mentioned homosexuality so I fail to understand why you brought it up in your reply. Now, answer this; Whatever possessed you too say "Go back to your Vaseline, handcuffs, and whatever it is you do." towards me? Nothing but pure judgement is what it is. You have no clue whatsoever as to what I do or believe in. Nice try at trying hurting me though. I honestly don't care what you think. What bothers me though is people like you spewing nothing but hate and judgement then saying your Christian. You were right in your reply this site being open to all. You were wrong in calling me a degenerate though. See, that was just more hate coming out of your head. In cases you missed my point again in this reply, quit calling yourself a Christian and true believer then turn around and spew hate and judgement towards others who don't agree. By the way, you were wrong about me being mad. I simply asked questions and asked for references so I could learn and understand your point of view. Instead of answering me you did nothing but hate, judge, and make false assumptions about me. My opinion about you so far is based on how you've acted thus far. Stay calm with people, no matter what you say or do a hater will always be a hater. Ignore them if they spew the devil's tongue, Good will judge them when the time comes. Learn compassion, understanding, forgiveness, and God's other lessons. In my honest opinion, your being tested and failing miserably because of hate. All we can do as God's children ifs spread the good word, be forgiving of people's short comings (we all have them including you and I), and have compassion to those in need. I know there's more but I'm going to stop right there. Think about it.

Please forgive my auto correct as well for any words out of place.

JohnMJr

Thank you for your input and answers, knowledge is part of what brings us closer to God. The more I understand a person's knowledge of God, the more I can grow. Also the more I learn from people the more decay I can see in this world. This statement was not a reflection of you or anyone on this site so far, just from past experiences. Everything in life is a perception, you can either wake up and believe it's going to be a good day or wake up and believe it'll be bad. Just a general statement. :-) Optimism and pessimism. Look for the good or the bad. :-)

JO-ANN

JOHN...IN OTHER POSTS I HAVE TOLD KEVIN THAT HE DID NOT NEED TO GO TO A DARK PLACE TO GET HIS POINT ACROSS....THUS USE THE WEAPONS GOD GIVES US IN THE WORD .....AND I WOULD HOPE THAT WHEN HE IS INSULTED .....HE WOULDN'T ANSWER BACK WITH AN INSULT.....ESPECIALLY A NASTY ONE.....WHEN HE WAS REVILED, HE DID NOT REVILE IN RETURN..WHEN HE SUFFERED, HE DID NOT THREATEN-BUT CONTINUED ENTRUSTING HIMSELF TO HIM WHO JUDGES JUSTLY....I THOUGHT IT MIGHT HELP HIM STEP BACK AND JUST GIVE A REPLY.... TO GET HIS LOVE AND RESPECT FOR GOD ACROSS......

JO-ANN

A PEDASTAL JOHN......I AM ALMOST GIDDY......I NEVER EVER SAID THAT CHRISTIANS THAT DO NOT FOLLOW MY PATH HAVE FALLEN FROM GOD'S GRACE.........I ALWAYS THOUGHT CHRISTIANS WERE ON THE SAME PATH...ANYWAY.....I DO PLACE MYSELF IN GODS HANDS ALWAYS......SHOULDN'T WE ALL BE DOING THAT.....ARE THERE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CHRISTIANS.....SOME THAT DON'T DO THAT?

JohnMJr

Please don't yell at me, I did not tell at you. All caps is yelling. Thank you. Not sure how you misunderstood pedestal, definitely not a good place in front of God. You've placed yourself above all others. I do understand Kevin has been attacked many times before, and you are wonderful for coming to his defense. But I requoted your quote and it was about not answering back to hate and abuse, and placing yourself in God's hands to take care of it. I don't think you really understood, Kevin was venomous in his words, her did attack back lowering himself. Doesn't matter, if your going to hate your going to hate. I suppose it really doesn't matter, but I was just trying to help Kevin get off the path of anger. Kevin, that's ok you don't want to engage anymore, I tried to help. That's all I could do. Nothing more I can say but that I'll be praying for you souls, anger and hate are the devil's path. My Christian point of view. Take care. :-)

godschild

Wow I can't believe some of the things I'm reading, its alright to express your opinions & how you feel.Yet must we attack one another for should we not love as Christ loved & pray for those who need prayer instead of batching each other.. For only God can judge us & only we ALONE will stand before him on that day of judgment.. Sending LOVE & PEACE to everyone.....

JO-ANN

I wanted to apologize to all of you....for my CAPS.......I am new to blogs and post etc....frankly...this is my first one...ever....and, i thought that the people that had asked for me to stop.....just didn't personally like them...and, i do...i am old...and it is just easier .....so free will told me i could type in caps.....well.....i thought that i would google it and ......i am sorry.....live and learn....which is what we are all doing here...maybe not here on this blog...but, definately here on the planet.....love jo-ann

Roger

How much difference is there between: those of us who hate "those who hate", and "those who hate"? It seems many of us practice hatred and many tend to pass it on under the guise of an organized religion. Read your personal Holy Book to find whom to hate. Roger

vcittadini

The way I look at it is that "Those Who Live in Glass Houses-Should NOT Throw Stones"., "If Your Porch Isn't Clean-You Shouldn't be Telling Someone Else That Their Porch is Dirty". Other ways to look at it is from the Bible itself. I know I'm not at all perfect in this world and I have made my mistakes trust me, but in the long run-I'm not in this world to judge others but to try to be the best person that I can be and to help others to see the good in themselves.

Matthew 7:1–6 (ESV) 7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

What Does the Bible Say About Judging Others? Matthew 7:1-6 Explained by Mark Ballenger http://applygodsword.com/what-does-the-bible-say-about-judging-others/