Unless you've been living under a rock recently, you've probably heard about the campaign to impeach President Trump. Politicians have retreated to their respective sides of the aisle and are now bracing for a fight.
But how does God feel about all of this? Does the man upstairs desire justice for misdeeds in the oval office, or, in his infinite wisdom, should forgiveness rule the day? For faith leaders, that's a matter of intense debate.
A Wall of Faith
Some of Trump's biggest defenders are men of the cloth. Among them is Franklin Graham, son of the renowned evangelist Billy Graham (who famously counseled Richard Nixon while he tried to fend off impeachment).
"Our country could begin to unravel if an elected president is thrown out of office because of lies and the media," Graham told Religion News Service in a recent interview. "It could be a devastating thing. We're in very dangerous territory."
Texas pastor Jack Graham also voiced support for the president on his official Twitter account:
Meanwhile, Robert Jeffress of First Baptist Dallas took an even stronger stance, arguing that despite his faults, Trump's work to support pro-life causes is far too important to let his presidency be derailed by impeachment. He went on to question the faith of Democrats, saying:
"Apparently the god they worship is the pagan god of the Old Testament Moloch, who allowed for child sacrifice. The god of the Bible doesn't sanction the killing of millions and millions of children in the womb, I think the god they are worshipping is the god of their own imagination."
If we were to make a judgment based on these statements alone, it would seem God is firmly opposed to impeachment. But what do other faith groups think?
Not So Fast
Apparently, they think that's a load of baloney. A progressive faith organization called the Red Letter Christians have called for a National Day of Prayer this Sunday, Oct. 13, which they hope will shine light on any potential shady dealings in the White House.
"For the sake of our nation's integrity and the most vulnerable in our society, we call on fellow Christians to support the current impeachment inquiry. Please join us in praying that the truth will be revealed and set us all free," the group wrote in a statement. They're being joined by over 100 faith leaders across the U.S:
The group's planned event, which will include prayers for members of Congress who may ultimately be called upon to decide if President Trump deserves to remain in office, has revealed a growing rift between Christians who support the current state administration and those who don't.
"May the Truth Prevail"
At the same time, the Red Letter Christians have been quick to emphasize that honesty and transparency - not politics are what most define their support for an impeachment inquiry.
"It is not a partisan issue. It's a moral issue. It's not something to engage in lightly; therefore, the call to prayer is appropriate," declared the Rev. Traci Blackmon of the United Church of Christ. "Beyond red and blue, there is right and wrong." She continued:
"For me, the prayer for Sunday is about this impeachment inquiry, but it's also about the healing of our nation. It's also about restoring hope and restoring faith and trust in one another. It's also about diminishing divisiveness that has been growing since 2016. It's also about honoring the humanity and dignity of everyone who calls this home."
Even House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, since giving the green light for impeachment, has insisted it be carried out "with dignity, with respect, prayerfully." In a nod to her Catholic roots, Pelosi later said "I pray for the president all the time. I pray for the safety of his family I wish that he would pray for the safety of other families and do something courageous on guns but I also pray that God will illuminate him to see right from wrong. It's very problematic."
What do you think? If God could cast a vote for impeachment, where would his allegiances lie? Is it even wise to bring religion into such a high-stakes political process?
71 comments
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Dan Atatakai
Why on EARTH would God care one whit about impeachment? According to the Abrahamic faiths, God created the universe, which includes the earth, the sun, etc. Now, why would God, with the hundreds of billions of constellations, and each constellation having hundreds of billions of stars, care about one little country and one guy who somehow became president?
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Lori
I agree that our political BS is not a concern for "God", nor do I believe the Source is concerned with who is elected to a political office. People tend to mold "God" to there own beliefs and perceptions, when, in fact, no one really has a clue what God is or isn't. Our inflated egos make us think we have the answers to how "God" does or doesn't interact with us. They follow a book that is endlessly contradicting in its understanding and condemn others who don't agree. Trump is not a gift from "God". He just is. I don't know what will happen with the impeachment process and I don't think "God" is going to swing the outcome either way. People need to wake up and examine who Trump really is, and stop worrying about "Gods" interaction.
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flugo
‘dan tacky’: Why? Because God put Trump in office according to the book of Romans in the Bible. We are to pray for him and respect him.
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Joe
Does the same goes for Kim Jung Un? How about about Maduro? Castro? Putin? Did God also put Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, and the likes?
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flugo
'joee': Yes! Either God is God and all that implies; or He isn't! Proverbs 21:1 tells of the king's heart in God's control; Romans 13:1-5 is clear about God's dispensing authority; Hababuk 1:6 is where God brought in the cruel Chaldeans to discipline His people; Psalm 75:5-7; Daniel 2:20-21; and many other Biblical references to God, for His purpose, is in charge!
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Lionheart
Wells Flugo: I see you are still reading and quoting from that old book of fictional tales and stories.
Try a different fictional book that has better endings and possibly better morals. Alice In Wonderland might be a good option, or if you want more excitement with not as much gore as your book, the Harry Potter books might serve you better.
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Rachel Megan Nevarez
Respectfully speaking, for those of us who believe in Christ and as much as I dislike the President's decisions. The Bible is clear. Matthew 5:44, "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous". We are not to pass judgement, not even on what may feel like a monster. As hard as it may be, we are to pray for Trump's heart and salvation. We don't get to judge, however we do get to vote.
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Russ Hjelm
I'm sorry, but you cannot interpret what Paul says about authority in general, to a particular person.
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flugo
'rush em': You either believe what God's Word says, or you don't. No problem to me. Authority figures are at many levels. God has put teachers over students, governors over state citizens, parents over kids, husband over wife, presidents over national citizens, and finally God over all. We are to pray for leadership and respect leadership. (After all, they're God's appointees!) God, in His wisdom and perfect plan uses people and nations of all descriptions to carry out His objectives . . . . whether we like them or understand them. That's God's business
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John D. Partin
Flugo Marx, stupid and gullible voters and the Electoral College put the Donald in office, not God, and so we can't blame God for that. We don't owe the Donald prayers or respect, anymore than we owed them for Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot or other murderous idiots, who were also put in power by stupid people!! Don't blame God for him and all that mess!!!
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flugo
'jonee fartin': You either believer in the truth, God's Word, or you don't. Simple as that.
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Lionheart
And don’t miss out Bill Clinton and Obama.
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John D. Partin
Only according to conservative idiots (which is a redundancy!!) are a president who got his dick sucked in the Oval Office and a president who was black the same thing as a "president" who incessantly lies and covers up the truth and plays political games and got a man who committed sexual assault appointed to the Supreme Court (that is, the Donald or, as I never tire of calling him, Trumpelstiltskin)!! We don't elect presidents not to have sex with interns or to be faithful to their wives (since that is between them and their wives and none of our business!) or not to be black, but only to handle the country's business. If they can do their job while screwing a line of women stretching down Pennsylvania Avenue, more power to them, but the Donald hasn't done his job as president and should be impeached or not elected to another term!
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Lionheart
That's an interesting perspective isn't it?
The good thing is that the people will decide in 2020 as to how many agree with your perspective.
If Donald Trump succeeds in getting back into office can we expect another four years of Democrats crying "poor me" instead of getting on with the job in hand of managing this beautiful country?
Will we see more Hollywood Democrats saying they will emigrate from the USA like foot stamping little children having a tantrum, but not carry out their promises......again?
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John D. Partin
Trumpophiles will listen to and see all of the evidence being brought out in the impeachment trial against the Donald and, as usual, being the drones and brainwashed zombies of him that they are, will dismiss it and refuse to consider any of it, since they are incapable of any objectivity or discernment about him whatsoever!!! As the Donald even said about his supporters during his campaign, he could murder somebody right out on the street and these idiots would still vote for him and support him!!! That is how low an opinion he has of his supporters, and deservedly so!!! Trying to talk any sense about the Donald to these people is an exercise in futility because they are so under his control and brainwashed and so much living inside their conservative and Trumpophile bubble that they can't understand, much less agree with, anything that is said to them about and against him!!! There have been other cult followers who were as blind and brainwashed as these people are about Trump, but they were religious zealots!! Only Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Fidel Castro, and other dictators have had this kind of Trumpophile blind and fanatical following among their supporters in the secular world!! That's incredible and totally unworthy of supposedly "sane", sensible, and freedom loving" people!!! If Trump doesn't get the Presidency taken away from him because of all his abuses of his power, there is something seriously wrong with this country and impeachment is virtually non-existent as a means of remedying such abuse by a president, and that precedent will open the door for everyone who comes after Trump to also abuse his power with impunity, knowing that nothing will be done to him, and to laugh at the law and this country, thinking himself above all laws!! If Trump hasn't committed impeachable offenses against his oath of office and our country, then nothing could ever possibly qualify as an impeachable offense by a president!!
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John D. Partin
Now, these stupid and cowardly Republican Senators are going to let this criminal Trumpelstiltskin off the hook to retain his office of "President", making themselves accessories to his crimes against the country!! Nancy Pelosi should have thrown the torn up pages of the Donald's speech at the State of the Union address right into his arrogant, smug, and fat ugly face after he'd finished telling his lies!! He has even intimidated the Congress into covering up for him and excusing his criminality!! Marco Rubio even said that though his actions rose to the level of impeachable offenses, "it isn't good for him to be impeached for those offenses"!! What a sad and dishonest day this is for America and what a terrible precedent this has set for future presidents, following his example!!
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Percy Lee McCoy
@John D.Partin, Amen John! You can't get a Trump Supporter to even acknowlegde that Trump is a bad man. He wants to be a dictator not President and his followers are okay with that.
We are living in an environment similar to the one in book of Judges, when "every man did that which was right in their own eyes."The Church in America has apostasize and the Church like the Church of Laodicea. Evengelical Right Conservative Christians in America are selling out their Faith for Trump, like Churches in Germany had accepted Hitler's Nazism..
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Ben
Truth!!!
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Jessica Hazelton
Conservative idiots? wow, I can feel sense you are full of anger . We should respect everyone, hate is nobody's friend. I don't support abortion , socialism , BLM riots or Antifa burning buildings , neither the abusive power of political leader such as Obama ,Nancy Pelosi , Illan Omar married her brother Ahmed Nur Said Elmi in 2009. I despite all those behaviors but I do respect everyone Democrats or Republicans . You are reflecting yourself in your words .
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Lionheart
More to the point, does god exist? ?❤️
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Brother David
Sure. And sometimes she reaches down a slaps us. In days of old he sent fire and she sent floods or was it he and she or she and he.... my point is the spirit is all things, all energy's, not of bones or flesh, not a hate-filled being but a loving, kind being that is or has been storied and taken out of it's full context. And yes I am talking about the Bible. It's often quoted, miss quoted, twisted, applied, used to control, but it is also inspiring, great reading and changeling. It takes a lot of brain power to follow all the pieces to the story and to go back and put the misquoted context into order to not be misled into the God of fire and brimstone. I don't know all of it, and I do know there are missing pieces to the puzzle. I do believe its content is inspired, that men physically wrote it, and that if you have an open mind, there is a lot to learn. And that some people that have died or left their being, returned and shared the events and were transpired by what was or had taken place. Not everyone has the same experience, yet some did. Peace, Brother David
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Lionheart
It’s an interesting theory/story isn’t it?
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James Grainger
The Constitution provides for separation of church and state for a reason; so one church can not gain power and force it's beliefs on others. God did not elect Trump, the people, however misguided they were, did. Even the President is not above the law.
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JT
See my comments elsewhere for some education ... peace.
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rev. Dr. o.s. McClain
NO ONE MAN CAN RUN THIS COUNTRY IT'S IMPOSSIBLE ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE THE PUBLIC IS TOO INTELLIGENT
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Ben
Sadly, you're poor grammar means that you're not intelligent.
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Jessica Hazelton
Seriously , How old are you ? …12? You act like a high School Bully . Hate , hate , hate , and insults Is all you talk about . I don't understand how the moderator approved your comments .
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God's Messenger
Trump sycophants and the evil-angel-icans (evangelicans are working for Satan) proping him up would present him as a saintly "savior". His Impeachment is due to his Gross Abuse of the Presidential Powers, his disdain for the Law and Constitution, his many Illegal Business Dealings, his Money Laundering, his Tax Evasion, his Obstruction of Justice and his TREASON with Putin and other foreign Nations. If God really cared, he would have incinerated him on the spot for his sins and love of darkness.This is a wordly problem for men and the remedy is Impeachment, Removal from Office and prosecuted for his many many Crimes. Besides. he is an Illegitimate President who was falsely elected with Russian help. Matthew 7:15 King James Version (KJV) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. And Dark and Evil he is...
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Mary Benoit
God does not get involved. It’s called human free will. We can affirm and act to work toward a specific outcome. People with bad ideas, like denying women the status of personhood, is wrong. We have the future of overpopulation but they don’t want women to be able to control their own bodies. If you look at nature it is more important for the species to continue than for any one entity to live
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Lynn Gideon
God anointed Saul King of Israel and when Saul disobeyed God took away his kingdom and anointed David as king. Our leaders are anointed by God. If impeachment takes place then it is God's will, and if impeachment does not happen it is still God's will.
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flugo
Right on!
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Lionheart
It looks as though the odds are on your god being right every time then, he can’t lose. It’s like, heads I win, tails you lose.
By that sort of logic, whatever happens, your god approves of it, so that must include killings in churches, rapings, death by storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, or anything else because if he doesn’t step in to stop them it’s obviously what he wants....right?
If a tree falls and just misses me, is it gods will? If it missed me but fell on a child do I thank your god it missed me?
Just asking!
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Russ Hjelm
By applying your logic, King George was God's anointed, and the founding fathers of our nation rebelled against God when they rebelled against King George.
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Joe
So then, instead of criticizing the process, Christians should stand still and let God do His will? It's pointless to fight something if God is responsible for the outcome. If Trump is the chosen one, then he has nothing to fear, regardless of guilt.
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flugo
'joee': Right on! All authority is of God. (Romans 13) AND, representative of authority (be they parents, mayors, kings, teachers, bosses) DO have nothing to fear so long as they are following God's revealed will in their lives.
They may encounter resistance, but God will honor their commitment to His calling in life. It's when they operate outside God's revealed will that they will encounter His discipline.-
Lionheart
????????
Too funny!!!
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Lori
Those who are in favor of Trump will say it was Gods will if he ISN'T impeached. Those who are against Trump will say it's Gods will if he IS impeached. It seems to me that Gods will is what ever each person wants it to be. Don't you think?
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Russ Hjelm
I'm not sure where we got the hubris to believe that any, and every, issue that we get tied up in knots over, God does as well. Wait, now I remember, it began when we got the hubris to believe that God is the image of us, rather than the other way around.
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Ben
Considering all the Commandments Trump has broken, I'm sure God is okay with impeachment.
Of course, since Trump is an adulterer Leviticus 20:10 says Trump should be put to death. So get to it Christians, take care of Trump and if you won't, shut your mouths about homosexuality, witchcraft or any of the rest of God's laws/rules. It's all or nothing, you don't get to cherry pick.
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Ben
My Gods are all for removing an unjust ruler.
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Tom B
Respectfully to all..."God" is not a "ruler"; that is an anthropomorphic projection...there is no God to have opinions...there is the Peace of the universe, and the karma that, along with our current actions, influences our lives...at this point in our history, our "leaders" are obsessed with "winning", as opposed to collaborative efforts...unless this changes, we can lose the United States...Peace...Tom B
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Brother David
GOD does care about what we do as a individual, a country, a world. When our forefathers set out to form our country, they did so with guidance from one another, their readings, their beliefs and their faiths. They set laws and enacted ways to deal with potential problems. Weather you believe in the Bible's words, it is a good book of guidance. It doesn't need to be taken out of context, nor does the words of men - women. Jesus was a great teacher, as is told by the Bible and the lips of men. And yes there are many teachers and books. I chose to believe in God, Jesus and his Spirit that is in us. I believe that this nation will survive and we are called to honor the President, Congress, and the Courts. The laws must be followed. It is what makes our nation great. Congress has an obligation to the citizens of this country and the world. The rule of law has nothing to do with the man Donald Trump. If the man DT violated the rules set forth for the position of President then Congress must act on it for "we the people". If they find nothing, than we the people should understand that the system worked. Personally I don't like the way he has handled the operation of the country or the relations with the world, It doesn't matter red or blue, put it aside and do what is right for us. May God illuminate the minds of our leaders, May his Spirit guide their hearts, and my peace be with all. Peace, Brother David
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Lionheart
Well David, I personally don’t see your book as a good book of guidance, especially as your god condoned slavery and stoning people to death. Just saying!
Peace ✌?
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Tom B
Lionheart...as I have in the past, I agree with you...the bible is like a Reader's Digest "guide" to history; it is not any god's anthropomorphic work...that "God" would do good or bad things is a dualism that does not exist...Peace...Tom B
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Lori
You sound very sincere and I respect what you've written. I don't believe in the bible or Jesus, but your comment reflects a greater consciousness.
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Brother David
Lori, thank you. I hope we all improve our consciousness of life and the world around us . I'm curious and have to ask you, you don't believe in Jesus, the person's' existence? Or the Bible story of him/his life? Peace, Brother David
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Lori
The man, Jesus, may have existed and much of what was written of his teachings are to be respected. He did not write anything down personally, so it's hard to say how accurate the writings were. I don't believe he was a savior of anything. The creative power, "God", runs through each and every person and thing on this planet. We are born with spirit and we die with spirit, regardless of what we've done or haven't done. Their have been many teachers that have walked through history, offering equally to the growth of human consciousness. I believe it's time for us to embrace our responsibilities to each other and break through the walls and the language that divides us. Each person must choose to either grow or remain stagnant in what they believe. In growing, we learn to recognize that there's a core element that exists beneath all religions. It's not about how we perceive "God". It's about how "God" works through us regardless of our perception.
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Ben
May the Gods protect us, by smiting Trump; before he destroys us all! Also, may Apollo's light of truth illuminate the minds of the Trump-cultists; to his evils.
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Lionheart
So do I take it that if President Trump isn’t smitten and gets re-elected, and Trump cultists don’t change their views, then your gods don't exist, even Apollo?
Perhaps they just don’t care, that’s if they really exist. They might even be Trump supporters and helped him get to his Presidency.
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flugo
'dave'; Purty darn good piece of work.
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Mark Hannon
When the entire Christian community holds a conference to include some great or inspired writing into the Bible by Franklin Graham, I might be interested in his opinions. Until then he is just giving his opinion and it is only worth what anyone else's is.
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Brother David
It is just that! Remember that we are all in this together. Let's try to use common sense, guidance from your higher power, and the bases of good over evil. You may not believe in Jesus as I do, but take the good work-teaching-stories, and those other holy or secularist, work-stories-views, and put the "body" and "mind"to work doing what is right for mankind and ourselves (including family). The world is a mess and we can only change a tiny part of it, us. But us put together with others, can have an impact. Sometimes it is fast, sometimes 100's of years, but change is moving forward and hopefully without hate. we have seen it, we have done something about it, and we will continue too. All humans have a right to live in a world that respects the individual. There is a balancing act between some areas of contention. But if that contention causes you to want to shove your view down someone's proverbial _____ , thats the point of ÿou need to examine your "thoughts' your heart". To pick up a knife-gun-stone-good book-bible or anything else to "force your point, beat someone into ______", is at the root of the problem. I can respect some of the points made, and some well taken views. There are a lot of great views based on a mixture of works-readings-actions, and those of you that don't care for the Bible, Good Book, Quran etc. old or new, have your driving forces, try to take what you know is good, on a balancing scale application, and MOVE _____. Don't take the Bible out of context, and that is very easy to do, or the words of men, also easy as history has shown. Lori, you said it, reflects a greater consciousness. I was a HS teacher- the best job one could have, a victim of violence in schools, of hate- in courtrooms, gun violence- being at an ATM at the wrong time. And I still believe in gun (#) ownership - but with a laundry list - common sense, I don't personally believe in abortion- but believe a woman's right to choose safely- she has to live within. Aggressive, tenacious, boisterous, spirited, people for the wrong reason, go away. Put that energy to good use. Let your words be your good actions.
Peace, Brother David
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Lul Admasachew
This topic is beyond political opposition. It therefore teaches many to develop such platforms ethically so that their efforts and analytical skills develop. I think that Federalism, Faith based Work and Tradition creates many leaders accomadating all.
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Lul Admasachew
The democratic political agenda is good and citizens need to reflect it around the world. Such agenda can set a good example for those making effort to create peace, cooperation, return refugees and end a neo colonial tendency on foreign soil since these concepts intertwine. The global situation in Leadership, not only for government but also non governmental and private sector need to be weighed before making any comments and involving God. God will not present when valuation is biased nd there is measurment error sabotaging international standardaisation. God loves virtue. God presides in Truth.
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Rev. Joseph Wolfe
Proverbs 11:34 The desire of the righteous is only good: but the expectation of the wicked is wrath.
Matthew 6:24 No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
Ecclesiastes 7:7-22 Surely oppression drives the wise into madness, and a bribe corrupts the heart. Better is the end of a thing than its beginning, and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit. Be not quick in your spirit to become angry, for anger lodges in the bosom of fools. Say not, “Why were the former days better than these?” For it is not from wisdom that you ask this. Wisdom is good with an inheritance, an advantage to those who see the sun. ...
I find that these words are more relevant to this current situation. A true Christian would know that these are wise words. And they would be able to see the Wickedness as I myself sees it, especially when it comes down to current events. A true Christian would also know that everything that goes on in this country and what it represents, even today, goes against everything that was taught by Christ and what he himself did not support. From my understanding Christ was always for Change and was strongly against Tradition.
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Lionheart
It’s very nice that you find comfort from your book that you quote. I’m not too sure what a true Christian really is that you refer to. A true Pagan, or a true Muslim, or a true Mormon, or a true Hindu, will possibly get their directions for life from the words they read from their own writings left by others, but thank you for sharing those writings from your book.
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Rev. Joseph Wolfe
You are welcome, I, myself have broaden my practices and beliefs, but favor the Book of Matthew Chapter 7 very much so, as it adds value to the way I perceive humanity and their behavior. I am a Universal Spiritualist, who believes as this Monastery motto says, we are all children of the same light. I am all about Unity through Coexistence and that is what I believe that the Christian Christ wanted himself as his message does speak clearly about Unity. And to me, A True Christian is one who fully lives by his teaching. "Do to others as you would want them to do to you." If we force our beliefs on people, then, it must mean that we want to be treated the same way right? Of course not, so if these supposed Christians don't want to be force to accept things the way that they are, accept the fact that we are only human with the freewill to make decisions on our own, without being told what we can or cannot do, then they shouldn't be trying to force us to convert over to something we do not feel comfortable being apart of.
That is why their Christ was against forcing people to follow, I mean, after all he did tell his disciples to go out to teach his word, do not force, if his word is rejected, just turn and walk away.
Hardly anyone is turning and walking away now a days.
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Lionheart
I might have to contradict you about your statement that hardly anyone is turning and walking away nowadays. I think you might find that people are leaving religion far more, and faster, than ever before, I am just one of those.
On a humorous note, though possibly true, someone once said, all that is needed to leave Christianity and become an atheist is read the Bible.
Peace!
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Secretary3rd
If you were an official in Ukraine before the current Ukraine president you were living a great life. You were corrupted and very wealthy by all the money that the US gave that country. With no one keeping account of where the money was going the last thing you wanted in the US was a person who did not like giving other countries money. Hunter Biden got 3 million dollars for doing nothing in the Ukraine what Joe Biden got as well is any ones guest. When Trump ask about corruption in Ukraine it was assumed he was also asking about VP Biden and his roll in its corruption. I wonder if other people in the Obama White House were also getting kick backs from Ukraine officials.
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Ben
If only there were some Romans, who could pretend Trump was Jesus and treat him the same way.
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Angel
Trump is in office because the majority of people didn't want Hilary nor do they want a socialist country.
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Steven Rimmer
The wicked witch of the west will ruin your christmas. And her name is Pelosi.The Democrats party are the ANTICHRIST you can go to a packed shopping mall but you can not go to CHURCH !!!
If the churches want to get involved in politics, then they should also start paying taxes.
Respectfully...they should pay taxes; period...there is no good reason to exempt organized religion from paying taxes...Peace...Tom B
A good reason, and the only necessary one, is the 1st Amendment, as made abundantly clear by the Supreme Court and that bigoted, racist a$$hat Hugo Black (a lifelong klansman; Black joined the Robert E. Lee Klan No. 1 in Alabama in 1923; in the Klan, Black was a Kladd of the Klavern for the largest Klan cell in the South. A Kladd of the Klavern was an initiator of new Klansmen; "an eternal separation of church and state" was a part of the Klansmen's Creed - coincidence? I think not!).
Here I quote Black's exact words, " "In the words of Jefferson, the [First Amendment] clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between church and State’.... That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”
If there is a high and impregnable "wall of separation" then it is EXACTLY THAT ... a wall which, by its very definition and existence, is bilateral - i.e., must work both ways. Or it isn't a wall! Limitations on government (which is what all the Bill of Rights' amendments are about) have been altered into restrictions on religious expression, which clearly violates the 1st Amendment’s next clause: "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and third clause “abridging the freedom of speech.”
Meanwhile, Washington publicly imposes politically correct secular religions like worshiping diversity or the environment.
Anyway, if strict separationists’ are, in fact, consistent adherents (they assuredly are not!) of their "high and impregnable" wall, they MUST believe and advocate that the federal government has no business in interfering with or governing religion such as, for example, requiring churches, clergy, and religious entities to adhere to/comply with generally applicable civil rights, criminal laws, employment, taxes, zoning laws, health and safety regulations, etc etc etc. See now where all this nonsense has led inevitably? No!? I didn't think so...
JT...Respectfully, i disagree...the fact of paying real estate taxes has nothing to do with religious freedom...to follow your line of thinking, they should not be3 charges sales tax, income tax, mortgage tax, capital gains tax, etc...that would be wrong...churches should be on the same plane as everyone else...this in no way infringes on their right to practice their religions; it simply enforces equality...Peace...Tom B
Yes, yes and yes.
Lori...thank you...Peace...Tom B
If Churches are going to take a political stand then they need to pay taxes. Those involved in politics profit, be it by gifts or money or corruption. If the church is going to attend to the spiritual goodness and guidance of it's congregation and nothing else, then this is separation of church and state and should be allowed a none profit status. Church teaching the word or truth of the most high, should be teaching the very basics. To love and care about and for one another no mater who. Welcoming the stranger. Forgive our enemy and turn the other cheek ,while understanding when not to and when killing our enemy is appropriate. Satan has been placed in this world along with his angles. He is the one roaming the earth and has many church congregations believing that hate, turning their backs on the needy, idolization of riches, fame, and anything of this world is righteous. IT'S NOT! it's not. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him..( 1 John 2:15 ) politics, money, guns, killing, social bitterness all the things this president stands for (1John 8:44) You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
The question of should the president be impeached you should know the answer in your heart and spirit, if you have to think about it then you are a member of the same spirit as the president who is a product of his father . 1 John 2:15
No, Churches should not get involved, but individuals in this country can and should be a part. I have listened to church leaders - priests, ministers, reverends, etc. and know that they are "learned persons". I don't take everything they say as "gospel" just because they said it. example - a pastor said that we use grape juice for wine because its in the bible and wine back then really wasn't like today, and we don't drink alcohol because you be sinnin. I said what...! Yes wine is made from grapes, and yes it is a custom, and yes it is used in celebration, and ... I said I am a wine expert by training, and the wine of old days was from grapes that were stored in vessels that fermented the juice, and it was used and drank for celebration and medicine and the life of Christ. And the sin is not the wine it is the drunk. If you drink too much you may: be the fool, the evildoer, the one who commits the sin. My point is don't take the word of someone without checking it's facts. Don't say with authority without knowing it is correct. Just because the person is so n so, doesn't mean we should drink the grape koolaid. Peace, Brother David
Amen