Of all the religions of the world, Islam is perhaps the most often misunderstood, especially by Western audiences. Yet Islam is the closest, both ideologically and geographically, to the major Western religions. Islam falls in the Abrahamic family of religions, same as Christianity and Judaism. But despite this close relationship, Islam is a difficult religion for the West to understand.
According to data gathered by the Pew Research forum, there are over 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, roughly 23% of the world population. Considering this, it would be beneficial to increase our understanding of Islam and how it relates to the other major world religions. We can do this by becoming familiar with the Qur'an.
The Qur'an is the central text of the Islamic faith. It is the supreme authority in Islam, and the source of all Islamic teaching. Another name for the Qur'an is Al-furqan, which means 'that which differentiates right from wrong' (25:1). It has been one of the most influential books in history and is recognized as the greatest literary masterpiece in Arabic.
What is the Qur'an?
The Qur'an is believed to be a divine revelation from God to the prophet Muhammad via the archangel Gabriel. These revelations occurred gradually over time (25:32). They were also from God, not from men (10:37). The Qur'an originally was a spoken message that was passed on orally until Muhammad's companions wrote it down.
The Qur'an claims to confirm and explain the Torah and the Gospel (10:37; 35:31). These earlier scriptures were sent along with their respective prophets to guide people to the truth (3:3). The Qur'an is God's final revelation to human kind, and Muhammad the seal, or last, of the prophets.
The Qur'an is organized into chapters, called surahs, and verses. Each surah is categorized as Meccan or Medinan. The Meccan surahs were revelations that came before Muhammad and the Muslim people migrated to Medina. The Medinan surahs are revelations that came after that migration.
In it's original Arabic, the Qur'an is a literary masterpiece and a unique form of Arabic speech. It's form cannot be described as poetry or prose because of it's unique combination of metrical and non metrical speech. The stylistic and literary features that set it apart include semantically driven assonance and rhyme, grammatical shift, and interrelation between sound, structure, and meaning. All this together makes the Qur'an stand apart from anything else, and are the reason why it has not been changed or altered from it's original to this day.
The Qur'an claims it's literary perfection is a sign that it is from God: "If you have doubts about the revelation We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a single sura like it -enlist whatever supporters you have other than God" (2:23; see also 69:60).
Relationship with Christianity and Judaism
The Qur'an share a similar history with that of Christianity and Judaism. It shares reverence for Moses, Abraham and the other prophets and major figures from the Torah, as well as Jesus and his disciples- there is "no distinction between them" (3:84).
However, contrary to the New Gospel, the Qur'an asserts that Jesus was not the son of God (5:75), nor was he crucified on the cross- that was just an illusion (4:157). Further, the Qur'an claims that Jesus himself was not God, and that the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is false (5:73). On the other hand, the Qur'an confirms Jesus' virgin birth (19:19-21), and his bodily ascension into heaven (3:55).
Though there are differences and contradictions between the three scriptures, the Qur'an encourages that they should be treated with the same respect.
"The Muslim believers, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabians - all those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good will have their rewards with their Lord" (2:62) Thus, the Qur'an encourages Jews to judge by the Torah (5:43); Christians to judge by the Gospel (5:46-47); and Muslims to judge by the Qur'an (5:48). Jews and Christians are commanded to consult their respective scriptures when they wish to know God's will. Therefore, the Qur'an considers these scriptures to be reliable.
Summary
The Torah, the Gospel, and the Qur'an are scriptures that are closely related one another. Their respective religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, share a common history and a common God. Allah, Yahweh, and God are names for the same Lord who is worshiped by each religion.
Of course, a message as brief as this one cannot hope to capture all that could be said on the Qur'an, and the relationship between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The goal has been to provide a very basic context.
If you would like gain a better understanding of the Qur'an and Islam, we encourage you to conduct your own personal research, and also check out these sources:
Qur'an on the other scriptures
Controversial verses in the Qur'an
Comparison Chart on the three religions
*verses and quotations come from:
A., Abdel Haleem M. The Qur'an: A New Translation. Oxford: Oxford UP, 2008. Print.
102 comments
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Mith Radates
Here are some of the Suras that clearly illustrate the Qur'an's guidance to the Islamic faithful:
"Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them." Koran 2:191 "Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood." Koran 9:123 "When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them." Koran 9:5 "Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable." Koran 3:85 "The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them."... Koran 9:30 "Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam" Koran 5:33 "Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies." Koran 22:19 "The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them." Koran 8:65 "Muslims must not take the infidels as friends." Koran 3:28 "Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur'an." Koran 8:12 "Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels." Koran 8:60
There are many more.
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Frank Villari
I'm not sure of your argument here. My Qur'an is clearly different in some of the passages referenced, and others are clearly taken out of context if you read the lines before and after. As with the differing sects of Islam, and Christianity, you can interpret anything to fit an agenda. The heretics of Islam do it constantly in order to excuse the killing of innocence.
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gstone
Pastor Frank, I have read two versions of the Qur'an/Koran and I find your comments ...exactly right. Mohammad had blood dripping from his hands. I have listened to these lying Emans for years. They can lie to the Christians and Jews and it's ok with their god.... baloney.... your comments were right on.
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Brother John
I don't think Pastor Frank was agreeing with you gstone. Heretics are professed believers who maintain religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church. In other words they are not followers of Islam and using their behaviour to judge Muslims is an example of how ignorance breeds hatred.
Perhaps, in your case, it's forgivable ignorance as you say you've been listening to "lying Emans" for years. An Imam is a Muslim religious leader and would have far more knowledge about Islam than the Emans who've been lying to everyone.
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Chanel Hilliard
Christians are no different, they pick and choose from the bible what to use and always support the sin that doesn't apply to them.
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Frank Villari
On target as well. If Christians wish to show their solidarity and faith in Christ, pick one belief and move forward. We also interpret our own scripture to fit our differing agendas. We are, in fact, as guilty and have as much blood on our own hands "in the name of God" as Islam.
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DirtyPaw
Yes, there is the problem as stated in your last sentance. It is a real conundrum...
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wftphd
I agree. Most people don't want to see this. They claim that Islam is a peace loving religion which promotes harmony. But much of it is concerned with getting rid of anyone who is not Muslim. And too, apostasy is punishable by death. Moreover, the faith it shares with Abraham is too much in love with a god who murders.
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Stella
The very same could be said about evangelical christianity.
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Lewis
Not really. If you look at the parable of the lost sheep, the Bible teaches that those who leave the faith should be prayed for and earnestly implored to repent and return to the faith: 'I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent." (Luke 15:7)
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Stella
The evangelicals I know seem to believe their way is the only way; any nonbelievers are doomed to hell; one must be born again into the evangelical christian faith; their god is vengeful, Old Testament murderous, and support war (civilians are collateral damage which is a price of war); and they believe muslims should be eradicated. As my brother-in-law said to me today: "they should all be exterminated." He certainly believes he is a good god-fearing man. I see many similarities between radical muslims and radical christians. A radical is a radical.
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Daniel J White
this s from the written form , and yet you will see similar things from the KJV only "GOD" says for us to let him do the killing...and yet we were told to be ready ...... I am not condoning to these scriptures posted what I am ssaying is war is inevitable when religion is involved..spiritualy minded people sometimes want to believe in a "Marshmallow GOD" but look in the KJV old testament........Pillars of fire...slaying of the first born...requiring Blood sacrifice....I can see this as being non-condonable as well....but all things that are done are done with reason I happen to believe there is a middle ground, I believe the "Scriptures" were and are written by Extremists only...Rhama or the Spoken word of GOD is the only Un-fallible word of GOD..and as a Follower I say pray wait and listen..then as you seek you will find.....no written words are going to be spot on..and if follow them to the Letter you will be lead astray...
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Brother John
Yet again I am shocked by some of the misguided and inappropriate comments on a site that promotes peace, understanding and unity, Mith. Please read my reply to weismonger above as it was also divisive and the antithesis of our purpose here.
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Stephen Pursley
The bible, if you pick and choose a single quote, is much more violent. Can't we just get along and respect each other? The world is big enough for this.
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David Rothgeb
Thank you for the enlightenment. ..
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Amy Berkowitz
Point of fact: while the Torah is sacred to Jews, it is the Talmud (all 23 volumes) that dictate Jewish law, discussion, and commentary by scholars. In the Talmud, and NOT in the Torah, do we find the 613 mitzvot (commandments).
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David
Islam is not a religion of peace... Mohammed and his attempt to create an Arab religion was rejected by Pagan, Jewish and Christian Arabs alike. It wasn't until Mohammed garnered the support of thieves thugs and brigands that Islam was spread... Submit to Islam or die is the core that spread Islam. Terrorism is key to Islam. Islam was founded by the sword and held together by fear... Nothing has changed...
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Doris Mae Honer
I think the pursuit of any specific religion is worldly and a family heredity. What goes on INSIDE a person is what is important. This is shown through words, and ideas expressed. It is loving Spiritual. People who are peaceful inside bringing God's love and peace wherever they go. Others in turmoil express their pain and anger through opinions on subjects like religion or prejudice...whatever is safe to say, without disclosing personal inside information. I believe it is important to remember we are all children of our Creator,God, or "Allah", or "The Universe", or yawah etcetera. But what we really need to admit is that we are all also BROTHERS AND SISTERS in the family of our "Creator". Lets pray for those in turmoil and be safe listeners to their anguish. May we retain respect, peace and God's love for all persons.
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Stella
I would suggest Mith Radates go through the bible and pull out all of the quotes about killing, raping, pillaging, defiling, etc. and how its 'merciful' god kills people left and right. This is the problem with organized religion. It can say anything you want it to say. Every religious text has been written by man and rewritten hundreds if not thousands of times. Then those with an ax to grind twist specific verses to enforce what they want others to believe. I have read the bible cover to cover and it is the most violent, bloody, hateful text I have ever read. It has always amazed me that people claim to find comfort there. But my point is the Qur'an is no different than any other religious text. I'm not a muslim or any other faith. All of them can keep their bloody, hateful, vengeful, judgmental gods. While there may be peace to be found in the world - it won't be in any religious text.
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Jo-An Josephine
Once Again....THANK YOU Stella! WOW, I would love to sit down with you one afternoon over coffee and tea and discuss. But I know that will never happen. Please don't ever give up. Your comments are a breath of fresh air and so far I agree with you 1000%. Thank You and Blessed Be!
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Didodit
Well said Stella. The best religion should be your own. Only do what is right and good. This is my mantra and I can fall asleep with a comfortable smile on my face because I live by it.
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Stella
Thank you. The link below offers an excellent history on Christianity, the bible, imaginations of men, the lies, deceit, profit making involved in Chrsitian religion. It is most definitely worth the read. And he ties it up with today's politics and the stupidity of people in an effort to keep their religion alive at all cost - which is substantial considering what is going on in the world today. This blog has largely been committed to trashing the Islam religion. Again I would argue Christians needs to be honest about their own faith's past as well as the present implications for their belief system.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/11/17/profiting-from-christian-credulity/
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Rev. Jesse Vance
I also agree. Thank you, Stella. You have stated my core beliefs. That is another reason I am glad to find the ULC. If the focus is on our individual relationship with GOD, as we each know GOD, the hatred of politics and the idea that "all the others are wrong," no longer apply. Any religion, group, or person that professes to "know what god really wants" to the exclusion, and persecution of all others may be considered a "religion", but I don't consider ir a "faith".
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Brother John
Bravo Stella!! Although the ULC allows for a wide range of opinions and beliefs, some of the comments that appear are unwanted, unnecessary, unhelpful and unwelcome by those of us wanting more unity, truth and peace in this world. Often they're an example of what needs to change if we're to awaken and regain our humanity. Disturbingly, they may also illustrate how far some of us are from the essence of Truth. I was also prompted to reply to Mith, and a few others, but that's not what I should be doing. If those of us who are here "Doing Right", stop engaging those whose comments range from divisive to ignorant, and just scroll on past, we can concentrate on more important and fulfilling issues. Some of them are hungry for our replies. Maybe we can starve them out and they'll eventually fade away.
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Stella
You of course are right - and I encouraged in a previous post for people to quit responding to these hateful posts because it only encourages them. I also think you are correct in stating we have better things to do than respond to these people. They are on a path that only they can change course. And I hope they do. This planet is desperate for peace and tolerance and it will only come through if we can show the wisdom of love, kindness andd tolerance - my prayer for all (even though I forget my own mindfulness at times - a work in progress).
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Brother John
One difference between the Qur'an and the Bible is that the Qur'an can still be read in it's original form and language, and most scholars believe the Arabic version is the only true and accurate book. The Bible, on the other hand, has been "revised" and "translated" many times over the centuries.
That being said, I agree with Stella. Religious dogma of any sort put blinders on those seeking enlightenment. There are many contemporary books that do not bury truth in the detritus of useless details and archaic beliefs. The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle is one of them.
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Tom
Since the Quran was written in the early part of AD its very easy to find original language versions, Aribic (is that the language?) is not a dead language, millions speaek it daily. Few speak the original Bible language daily any more. That being said scolars comparing old versions (i.e. From places like the Dead Sea Scrolls) find it remarkable how true to the original modern Bible books are (in meaning and purpose).
Disclaimer: I am not a linguest and am interpreting the research of others third hand.
The Qurans linguistic heartitage gets even weirder than the bible. At the time Muhamed was given the Quran he was illiterate (need verification on this heard it both ways) so the Quran was a verbal tradition for a long time. I think it was a hundred or so years before it became a physical book. That is one reason memorising the Quran is prized skill among Muslims. I have heard that Aribic words can have many variations with subtle changes in meaning. So even the written Quran in the original Aribic can be considered an Interpertation rather than a translation. I have also heard (not experienced myself) that a recitation of the Quran by a master has such a flow to it that if the speaker uses the wrong form of the Aribic word the difference can be heard as a break in the flow. Again not a linguist but I am an Electrical Engineer and that sound very similar to self correcting (error detecting maybe more accurate) code, extremely advanced for an illiterate peasant would you not say?
One last disclaimer: Not a Muslim, Catholic by birth but not by practice. Many Mulim and Christian friends but I don't think I know a single Jew, not for any prejudice, just don't seem to be many around here. I don't think any major religion has it right, but each has its own version of the golden rule "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and that is as close to "right" as you can get.
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Brother John
Brother Tom says.. "That being said scolars comparing old versions (i.e. From places like the Dead Sea Scrolls) find it remarkable how true to the original modern Bible books are (in meaning and purpose)."
That's not accurate Brother Tom. Firstly, there are no "original" Bible. All existing manuscripts (many of which are only fragments) are only copies (of copies, of copies….) There are tens of thousands of variations, errors and changes amongst the various copies with no way of determining which is "correct". The oldest manuscripts have the most errors. Spend some time reading (or watching) lectures and debates by Dr. Bart Ehrman, one of the world's most respected New Testament scholars for verification.
Furthermore, there are no eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus, including the Gospels, which were written decades after the purported events. Like the Q'uran, complete books in the N/T weren't written until centuries after the events described.
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Tom
One thing to note, since the prophet Mohammad was illiterate, at least at first, the Q'uran was a verbal tradition, everyone had to memorize it. In fact some consider any written Q'uran (even in Arabic) to be an Interpretation. Note this is different than a translation; a translation is considered to be a true copy just in another language. Arabic has some words. or intonation of words, that do not have a written form. So the written Q'uran is an interpretation of the original spoken version. Because of this memorization and recitation thru out the years, I would consider the Q'uran to have a continuous history back to the Prophet.
I have heard that a properly recited Q'uran requires even the word choice and tone to be "standard" and it's easy to hear a misspoken phrase.
Note I'm not a linguist nor a scholar of the Q'uran so this information is 3rd hand. Take it as you will.
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Tom
Kind of true, back in the period of which I speak there was no "Bible" just a bunch "books" some of which became the Bible, and if you read my comment above carefully, I did not say they were identical I said "in meaning and purpose". Calling them "Original" was rather imprecise on my part, my apologies. As for "The oldest manuscripts have the most errors" maybe its just naivety on my part but I would think the oldest, being closer to the actual events would be the more accurate.
True there are no accounts of Jesus life except for the approx three years of his ministries, however the books of the N/T are based on letters written by some of the apostles.
The Canonization of the Bible was not so much a rewrite of the earlier works as picking and choosing what the "Committee" wanted to include in the "Bible". To be honest however much of what was considered for inclusions were Greek translations of earlier works.
Going one step further it's not just "copies (of copies, of copies)" it's "copies of translations of interpretations of retellings" yet after all that they remain remarkably true. I'm sure you have either seen or done the experiment where you whisper something in to one persons ear who whispers it to a second person and so on until after 10 people or so what you hear back is unrecognizable as what you started with. So for a story to remain more or less the same is quite remarkable after thousands of years.
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ray e bensing sr
U still NOT answer my question-YES or NO- IS ULC muslim? thank you from Ray e. Bensing,sr
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Toni Guy
No, we are non-denominational and we provide education on a number of belief systems.
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casey lynn
Let me get this straight. You look right past the sermons surrounding this one on the subjects of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and a Hindu text, completely and utterly ignore the church logo with symbols from many religions, and need to ask more than once if the ULC is a Muslim church and get demanding about it as if the answer isn't totally obvious? Okay. Sounds reasonable...
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Rev. Rik
Ray, your question has been answered more than once. Perhaps you have a specific answer that you have not yet heard?
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Tom
Not to disagree with Toni Guy, but I would say "Yes we are Muslim", we are also Christian, we are Jewish, Wiccan and Buddhist. We are all inclusive, we reject no peace loving pratice. When asked who we are I would prefer to answer in the affirmative, "yes we are you". To answer in the negative, even with a correction later later ("no we are not Muslim, we are all denominations") I feel gives the person a start to the conversation with a defensive feeling. Where as ac"yes" answer would lead the person to feeling of comradship. Yes this guy does not seem to grasp the whole concept but third party readers who may happen to be Muslim this should give them warm fuzzies that they are talking to brothers.
Just my opinion.
Tom
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Andy Anderson
I have studied the Quran in depth for several years. It is very similar to the Old Testament Bible. There is nothing written in the Quran to insight hatred, violence, killing or the kind of activity we see from Muslim racialist.
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Steve
Then you must of studied the Quran with your eyes closed, it talks about killing non-believers throughout the whole book, and to only befriend other Muslims.
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RDS
It is my understanding the Quran has been edited for the purpose of insighting the radicals and are printed only in Saudi Arabia. If one owns an older Quran then it does speak of peace which I would assume Mr. Anderson owns.
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Steve
And the parts about KILLING JEWS???? Missed that I guess.
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drdias
Islam is an ideological death cult not a religion!
“Islam is an Ideology of death not a religion!”
Islam the Ideological cult of Enslavement and Death!
“Islam is the most violent, oppressive, anti-feminism, deviant, mongering, and misogynist ideology on this planet.”
“Islam is an overly deprave Ideology that was fabricated by a completely illiterate mass murdering pillaging lying misogynistic whore mongering syphilitic barbaric profane warlord pedophile!”
Yes, Islam finds it roots in Judaism and Christianity to exploit and subdue those are not Muslim!
Islam is a ideology of suppression, hate, death, murder, and enslavement towards others(us as Infidels) including fellow Muslims who do not belong to the same Islamic sect.
Islam being the one to be most feared in the 21st century for its ruthless violent acts against humanity!
The vast Majority of murders, be-headings, Crucifixions, and dismemberments in the last 40 years have been carried out by the followers of Islam.
The true Racist and defamer’s are the followers of Islam!
Slaughtering is a Blood Sport within the Ideology of Islam, the murdering of the Innocents, Woman, Children, Animals and Infidels is what the Islamic Ideology has taught all of its Demented Delusional followers under Qur’anic teachings and Sharia Law!
Typical barbaric horrendous heinous butchering murderous acts which are allowed, condoned, and committed under Sharia Law, the Hadith, and the Writings within the Qur’an.
These Typical barbaric acts allowed under Sharia Law and the Writings of the Qur'an, Women and girls only have half the value of a man!
A male shall inherit twice as much as a female. Quran 4:11, "Women," Dawood, p. 77
"Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an." Sahih Al-Tabari IX:113
Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrong-doers. Quran 5:51, "The Table," Dawood, p. 116
Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Quran 4:34, "Women," Dawood, p. 83
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
"O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement." Quran 2.178
"Cut off the hands of thieves, whether they are male or female, as punishment for what they have done-a deterrent from God: God is almighty and wise." 39 "But if anyone repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, God will accept his repentance: God is most forgiving and merciful." Quran 5:38:
Pedophilia is practice and allowed under Sharia Law and the Writings of the Qur'an!
Rape, spousal abuse, child flogging and child rape is permitted under Islam!
Yes, a real Ideology of Peace and tolerance, to whom, is what one must ask?
“We must stop enabling this death cult known as Islam!
“The only peace and tolerance Islam delivered is to the dead!”
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Stella
WOW - it must be difficult to carry around all that hate. I suggest therapy - and maybe a valium.
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drdias
Stella not hate!
TRUTH!
If you have not done your due diligence and research this ideology of hate, then you will feel its full fury as you are considered to have half the value of a man!
As a women under Sharia Law you have the right to be raped, abused, stoned to death, whipped, hung, and beheaded for almost any offense or crime that they the Islamic males decides to inflict upon you under Sharia Law, there is no appeal or "get out of jail free card"!
Islam is the most violently misogynistic religion in the world. Globally, eleven of the twelve countries most oppressive towards women are Muslim-majority countries. Women are being raped by jihadists as we speak (and the Qur'an allows it). And instead of confronting Islam, American feminists are defending it. But don't ask them to "worry their pretty little heads."
So stay within your little fantasy world and see what happens when you are told to convert or die!
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Walter Allbritton
Brother a pure heart has no evil ! Satan is the author of confusion even jesus was called the Devil by learned high priest where is the logic in what your saying. God created Everything Muhammad is not the devil He knows what the end have in store I pray five times a day,I fast in ramadan , (disciplining the physical mental and spiritual side of Man), Bless are those who don't see and Believe then those who see and Believe. There are many Words of Christ that gives us the surety of The All Knowing God the Almighty for us to identify Him in All walks of Life Allah is The God that's the translation to the Arabic word Allah so (The) is Definite Superior ! Open you're Heart !
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drdias
Walter! When they come and behead you for being an infidel then they will open your heart forever!!
Allah is not a god, allah is myth used to enslave and destroyed those who do not kowtow to the Islamic ideology just like those who did not bow down to the Nazi's, the Romans, and Stalin!
You hide behind your words and speak nothing but deceit!
When you write like this and defend those who deceive and condemn you to death or enslavement you are an Antichrist!
Islam In Arabic, the word “Islam” means submission or surrender
I will not surrender to murderers, killers, child marriage, rapists, bestiality, and pedophiles which are all allowed under Sharia Law, the Hadith, and under Qur’anic teachings.
Go pray for them; go to them to get your just reward!
Convert, die, or be enslaved, without your own volition, never again to practice your faith without death hanging over you!
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DirtyPaw
I do not think American women are going to like wearing a Berka.
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Stella
From ULC Heaven's Bloodlust - Gods of Gore - Oct. 6, 2014 ULC Blog: Beheading and killing is not isolated to the Islamic faith. Condemn them as we might, they are not the undisputed champions of spilling blood. In his book, Where God Was Born, Bruce Feiler writes that “Jews and Christians who smugly console themselves that Islam is the only violent religion are willfully ignoring their past. Nowhere is the struggle between faith and violence described more vividly, and with more stomach-turning details of ruthlessness, than in the Hebrew Bible.” We find that more than one hundred passages of Judeo-Christian holy texts contain divine commands to murder the non-believers.
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Steve
Yes Stella that's true, but Christians have advanced past that and the NT teaches about forgiveness and to love everyone, Islam hasn't moved past the 14th century, they are still killing non-believers as they did a thousand years ago; so there has been no advancement to Islam what so ever. Everything drdias said in his rant to totally true. So if everyone here was to really study Islam and open their eyes to the atrocities that is still doing today in the modern world, you would know that Islam is far from being a religion of peace.
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Stella
You just said that your NT teaches about forgiveness and to love everyone yet make the ignorant claim that Islam hasn't moved past the 14th C. Where is your forgiveness and love? So many christian radicals commenting on this issue seem to believe that ALL Muslims believe in what the few fundamentalist Muslims are doing. That's like comparing the catholic church to the Unitarians - and there is no comparison. The majority of Muslims are peaceful people, practicing their faith, and harming none. There are US Governors and congressman who are Muslim and I don't hear about them beheading people and beating their wives. Everything drdias said was inflammatory, judgmental, and hate-mongering. He has no legitimacy in my mind whatsoever. I suggest you study the atrocities of your own faith which are many and continue to do this day. Finally, I made a mistake. I thought this ULC blog included a majority of enlightened openminded people. The people posting on this blog as well as the one on gays and child abuse seem to have a hate-filled christian agenda to contradict everyone who doesn't believe as they do. Perhaps there should be some sort of interview before people can post - at a minimum there should be a literacy and spelling test based on the ignorance clearly exhibited here.
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Steve
This isn't about my forgiveness and love, this is about spreading the truth about what Islam is all about, and it seems it's something you left wing Libtards will never see the light in, untill it's too late. The so called peaceful Muslim will be killed as apostates for not following the Quran correctly, this can be seen going on in the Middle East everyday, Muslim killing Muslim, Shiites against Sunni's, and when they aren't killing each other they are killing Christians, Hindu's Sikh's, Buddhist and anyone else that doesn't follow their mind set.If you have read the Quran then you will know the purpose of Islam is to spread and conquer and to make the whole world Muslim. Everything drdias said is the TRUTH! he may have put it bluntly and your left wing mind can't cope with that or the truth; it's not hate it's fact. Freedom of speech Stella, I know the left wing doesn't like that, they rather keep people quiet and hide the truth instead of spreading it. Remember you can't be enlightened if your head is buried in the sand.
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Brother John
Steve, are you suggesting that none of military personnel and contract mercenaries around the world who are paid to kill people on a regular basis aren't Christians? I agree that Christians should be forgiving and love everyone, but that's not the reality.
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Brother John
Many "Christians" have not "advanced", Steve. It's even obvious here on a site promoting peace and understanding. There are many comments spewing hatred, lies and fear mongering about Muslims. The comments above by drdias are an excellent example. Regarding the "atrocities" in the world. What do you think the body count of innocent civilians is for the Christian pilots, drone operators, and ground troops by comparison?
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Mark
From the comments seen above its obvious that some individuals consider their belief or "religion" to be absolutely correct and that any other belief is false. Why is that? If we take all the good that is each writing, could we not just simply reduce it to " Can't we all just get along?" Sure all the books have what can be considered violent passages but we must all remember that all these books were written by man And it's been demonstrated that the transcribers will adjust the interpretation to their personal beliefs or as designated by their overseers. There are extremists in all beliefs but the true test is if a person can open their mind to other opinions and not consider murder as a solution.
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ray e bensing sr
Who are beheaded people? Christians? Who are burning churches? Christians? Who says-"convert or die? Christians? Jesus says to LOVE your enmeny NOT kill them! Does muslims do this? thank you from Ray
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Stella
Ray - Apparently you haven't read the history of the Roman Catholic Church which is reputedly Christian. It wrote the book on beheading, burning, and killing those deemed heretics.
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pontotocbill
Stella, yes, the Roman Catholic Church and other Christian denominations made errors in the past.
However, when was the last time you have heard of Christians killing, beheading, or burning non-Christians, unless the Christians were attacked first? When was the last time that a group of Christians started aggressive actions?
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Stella
So your argument is the past doesn't matter? I think its important to look at the issue from a historical perspective. The Roman Catholic Church "errors" included murdering (including beheading) and torturing people for being non-believers out of a desire for control. It was about unrepentant power. Today's radical Muslims are reacting to US imperialism; many come from poverty with little education and are hopeless about their future. They are disgusted with US military intervention in the Middle East and tearing countries apart piece by piece for greed, making their lives far worse, creating instability and causing untold misery, suffering, and civilian causalities. While I don't agree with their reaction I can understand the circumstances that led them there. It is how most revolutions begin. I can't understand the Catholic Church's murderous rampage during the Crusades for nothing more than perceived power. So while I don't condone the actions of radical Muslims they have legitimate concerns that need to be addressed. The Catholic Church had no legitimate reasons for what it did. It authorized killing because it had power, wanted to maintain it, and could get away with it. Who is the worst offender?
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Steve
Stella you have sooooooooo many things you need to research as it seems you don't really understand what is going on around you. Islam has been killing from day one and still is; Christians did terrible things in the past but they DON"T now, that's the difference. Plus the Crusades happened to stop the Muslim invasion of the area, and you must know that Islam went as far as Spain with their wars.
Check the history of Lebanon, a free Christian democratic nation in the Middle East; they let in 300,000 Palestinian refugees who slowly took over and what is Lebanon like today??? it's totally destroyed all because of the religion of peace. So do you studies and come to the table with facts.
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pontotocbill
Actually, Stella, that is an intellectual cop-out to blame US imperialism. It is indicative on one who accepts progressive ideas without question. None of the muslims involved in the attacks on 11 September, 2001 were poor, poverty stricken people. Osama bin Laden was worth over a billion dollars. Dr. Ayman al-Zuahiri is a medical doctor. Not poverty stricken. The majority of islamic terrorists are not poverty stricken, nor do they have little education. Do a little research about that. They became radicalized by their religion. Christianity has had bad points, but has progressed past them. There was reformation in Christianity. There has been no reformation in islam and it is likely there never will be, as the quran speaks against innovation. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any legitimate concerns of muslims that justifies be headings, rapes, kidnappings, slavery, etc.
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Brother John
Although there are many contemporary examples, pontotocbill. Here are three for you. They're not difficult to verify as they're recent history. Of course they're not hard to overlook either if they're contrary to the point you're trying to make. I've done a bit of research for you that you could have easily done yourself before posting your questions.
1 The Holocaust, was carried out by German Christians who justified it biblically. One of their battle cries was "The Jews killed Jesus". Godwin's Law states that the longer an internet dialog continues, the more likely someone will use the example of Hitler as the epitome of evil. The fact is, Hitler probably never killed anyone and "I was just following orders" was, and is, not a viable defense. Although you can deny that der Fuhrer was not truly a Christian, most of the churches either colluded with the Nazis or kept silent. Here are a few quotes from der Fuhrer, the leader of the Christian Socialist Party aka Nazis.
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”
“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.”
“Today Christians … stand at the head of [this country]… I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press – in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past … (few) years.”
2 Rwanda is one of the most Christianized countries in Africa with it's population estimated to be 90% Christian. In less than 100 days, in 1994, over 800,000 people were killed with machetes, clubs studded with nails and other crude weapons. Most of the killings took place in or around churches and involved Christians killing other Christians, as well as non-Christians. Numerous priests, nuns, brothers and both Catholic and Protestant lay persons supported, participated in, and encouraged the slaughter.
In 2005, the UN's International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR), then in the process of convicting many of the political and military leaders who oversaw the genocide, issued charges against Father Wenceslas Munyeshyaka. The indictment was a catalogue of horror. The priest, it said, conspired with leaders of the extremist Hutu militia spearheading the killing of Tutsis. It alleges that he helped draw up lists of men to die, stood by as Tutsis were taken away and killed, allowed the militia to roam his church hunting for victims, and that he raped young women.
The same year as the ICTR indictment, a military court in Rwanda convicted the priest in absentia and sentenced him to life in prison for genocide. However, he continues to live in France as a free man and parish priest. There were other priests that were also indicted, but escorted out of the country by their churches to avoid prosecution.
3 The Global War on Terror has resulted in the deaths of an estimated 230,000 innocent people (plus trillions of dollars squandered) and continues today. It started as angry retribution for 9/11 which spawned the current widespread Islamaphobia and the invasion and destruction of a number of countries by the principally Christian West. There are many people who do not accept the "official" 9/11 story including; high ranking law enforcement, military and government officials; engineers, architects, eyewitnesses and more, who believe the three buildings came down by controlled demolition, not impact with aircraft (particularly the third one which wasn't hit by a plane). You can read their expert testimony on rethink911.org and other sites.
In the future, I suggest you spend some of your own time on basic research before posting. In reading a little further down, this also applies to others, including you Steve.
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Brother John
When was the last time I've heard about Christians killing and burning non-Christians, pontotocbill? How about just the past couple of decades, including today? Napalm, white phosphorous, depleted uranium and conventional munitions have all been used to kill innocent non-Christians (hundreds of thousands of them), by Christian nations, pilots and soldiers. In all cases, the Christian nations involved had not been "attacked first". If you're going to use 9/11 as an example…. There were no Afghans or Iraqis involved (mostly Saudis who curiously remain our allies). There were no "weapons of mass destruction" either. Have you not heard about any of this, or have you chosen to ignore it to make your point?
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Ed Little
An excerpt from my blog:
For some time, my religious beliefs had been centered about my opinion that God exists but has no favorites among all the religions in the world, and that all of them were equal. I had previously posted to this Blog, a time or two, or three, addressing the subject but thought that few might share that opinion. Amazingly, it turns out that there are thousands of believers in the concept. I found the Universal Life Church, which exists in the on-line environment, although there may be brick and mortar versions. There are only two tenets. 1) Do Only That Which Is Right. 2) Promote Freedom of Religion. I think I can handle both of these. Ordination as a Minister in the ULC is free and open to almost anyone of any faith (there is an age requirement). Optional basic accoutrements are a few dollars. So, now I am an Ordained Minister. Who ever would have thought it so?Since discovery, I've been considering the First Tenet. Essentially, this single broad statement (Do Only That Which Is Right) I imagine pretty much encompasses all the civil behavior directives levied by other belief systems in just six words. If everyone managed to comply with the intent of that statement, there simply would be far less conflict between individuals and national communities. By default, we would treat each other with respect and honor, and with tolerance of individual beliefs or even individual disbeliefs. We could exist in a live and let live environ. Unfortunately, humans likely will never all hold to the same beliefs. Belief is not within the realm of science and fact, but rather exists in the mind of the individual, therefor, tolerance of our differences and freedom to hold differing beliefs is about the best we can hope for.
All life that can exist in this Universe must use the same elemental building blocks. “We are all children of the same Universe”. It's a truism of course, and it is the slogan adopted by the Church. I suppose the attraction for me, was the simple truth of the Tenets. I may have difficulty with showing tolerance for a belief system that I strongly oppose for some reason. Since I am no religious scholar, and am not knowledgeable relative to all the belief systems in existence, that bridge will have to be crossed when and if I get to it. I'm almost sure that tolerance of any religion or belief system that espouses Peace and Goodwill and Justice will not be difficult. Conversely, nor will rejection of radical extremism be difficult. The difficulty I see with such a broad mandate, is that it is open to interpretation regarding just what is “right”. For me, “right” becomes what I feel it is or should be. Essentially, I am my Judge, and I trust myself to be fair in my interpretations. For many of those associated with mainstream organized religion, “right” is whatever their religious leadership and supporting documents say it is. Arguments to the contrary are frequently not well received nor well tolerated.
Cult like elements mostly derived from established peaceful belief systems, are in my view, not valid as religion, and therefore are exempt from the Second Tenet that calls for the promotion of Freedom of Religion. I cannot justify to myself, tolerance for the radicalism and hate espoused by those of the Westboro Baptist Church, the racism of the KKK, intolerance displays of Orthodox Jewish fundamentalists, and terrorist acts of radical Islamic fundamentalists. I find no conflict with the First Tenet, in my decision to dislike or even hate what they do. All people should be free to worship or not, or to observe peaceful tenets of their religion in peace, and be free from persecution or harassment by any individual or governing entity. Whether Christian, Jew, Muslim, Atheist, Hindi, Wiccan, Druid, or a hundred others, makes no difference.
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Tony Grygera
Ed, I concur with your observations. The only question I have (rhetorical) or what bothers me about the first tenet is, "Do evil people believe that what they are doing is Right?" Or to put it another way . . . Did Hitler think what he was doing was Right? Does ISIS believe that what they are doing is Right? Jeffrey Dahmer? We see so many injustices fostered by politicians, corporations, religious leaders, that you have to question whether they really think they are doing right or if they know they are screwing innocent people.
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Al
Jews do not have the love of God in them. John 5:42. Jesus was not a compromiser and the word "compromise" is not in the Bible (KJV), but neither did he advocate violence against other religions, that I'm aware of.
I do believe that it is important to educate Christians on the Qur'an and applaud ULC for this attempt so that Christians can learn the truth. Instead of hostilities towards Muslims we should be reaching out to them, and what better way than by understanding their beliefs.
I just hope that ULC has not joined the movement to combine Christianity and Islam.
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drdias
WAKE UP AL! UNLESS YOU CONVERT TO ISLAM YOU ARE AN INFIDEL!
Al as an Infidel who can never be considered a true friend to any Muslim! This written within the Qur'an in many verses.
Yes, there are exception, but they far and few between. The Islamic ideological culture teaches hate and use of deceit towards an Infidel(US), befriending a Muslim might lead to some sort of understanding, not in the way you hoped! We are consider impure decadent and blasphemous towards Islam and their so-called god. Changing that would incorporate a whole cultural ideological change that has not changed for over 1400 years.
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Steve
o The Beast in Revelation is the rise and world domination of Islam, and it is slowly coming true... o If you do a study of Revelation and Islamic Eschatology. Just as we have the coming of the Messiah at the end of days, The Muslims also have a coming of their own Messiah at the same time Jesus returns; this is discussed in the Hadith. Now Islam’s Messiah will be called the Mahdi, he will be the leader to all the Muslims and launch a military campaign against Jews and Christians.
The book of Revelation speaks of the antichrist, the Mahdi is the mirror image of the one described in the Bible; the temple is rebuilt in Israel and the antichrist (Mahdi) will sit on the throne in Jerusalem and begin to rule. He will lead a world revolution and establish a New World Order. He will conquer Israel for Islam. He will cause Islam to be the only religion practiced on earth.
This is the teaching of Islam, but our Bible talks of the antichrist and the things that he will do. If you look at what is going on in the world today, there is only one religion today that wants world domination and can’t live in peace with any other religion, and that is Islam.
Read Rev 17:9-11. The seven heads are called seven mountains. The Bible often uses mountains as a symbol to represent a kingdom or an empire. This passage gives us insight into the fact that, before Jesus returns, there will actually have been a total of eight “Beast” empires. The eighth empire will be ruled by the antichrist. The empires so far are: 1) The Egyptian empire 2) The Assyrian empire 3) The Babylonian empire 4) The Persian empire 5) The Greek empire 6) And as John wrote the book of Revelation, Rome ruled the Middle East, Northern Africa, and much of Europe. So what was the empire after Rome? This will be seventh empire and will return as the eighth and be ruled by the antichrist. In AD 395 the Roman Empire was divided into two portions, the eastern and the western portions. The eastern portion became known as the Byzantine Empire; in AD 410 the western/European half fell to the Germanic tribes, but the Roman Empire continued and shifted its capital to Constantinople.
The eastern portion finally fell in AD 1453 to the Turks. Turkish/Ottoman Empire succeeded the Roman Empire and ruled over the entire Middle East, including Jerusalem, for nearly 500 yrs. The Turkish Empire existed right up until 1909. So the only empire that fulfills the patterns necessary to be considered as the seventh empire is the Turkish/Ottoman Empire. So this is the empire that the Bible says will return as the eighth empire, they will restore the Islamic caliphate and he will be the antichrist.
This is where the rise of Islam comes from, maybe just another theory, but everyday Islam grows stronger and forces their ideology on so many countries. So keep watch, maybe I’m right, maybe not, but something to think about
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Stella
There simply isn't enough time to address all the nonsense posted here. I would like to ask if the word "libtard" was found in your "Anglish Dickshunary"? Did you even go to school? I simply have to comment on the view that Christians have moved past their bad history. Really? The US claims to be a christian nation yet we have about 35% of the people living under the poverty level; the top 1% of wealthy people have more than everyone else put together; greed is the mantra of the US; we don't have health care for all; there are homeless people who are also hungry and sick in virtually every state and the numbers grow every year; as seen on the blogs regarding gays and child abuse we find good christian people's responses to be bigoted, hateful, and based on punishment rather than forgiveness. Most christians support the death penalty; and many support vigilantism. Maybe christians aren't running around beheading people - but give them time. I just read last night there have been over 100 attempted murders of doctors who perform abortions in this country - committed by Christians. This doesn't include the actual murders and bombings of clinics. I find the majority of people who call themselves Christian to be hypocrites. They love to spew the bible and speak of Christ and then don't follow much of what he taught. So my unsolicited advice is to clean up your own bad behavior and thoughts before condemning an entire faith. The hysterical and outrageous statements made on this blog are based on fear mongering and hate - period. You can rail all day about Islam but at this point I think most intelligent people have tuned you out.
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David
Stella... Whereas we often see Christians who do not follow the dictates of Christ's teaching we see many more Muslims who do not follow the violence advocated by Mo... When criticizing Islam it is not an attack on Muslim individuals. The "good Muslims" in Islam are those following jihad, and conducting violent acts against others... Pointing out bad behavior of others does not justify bad behavior... Every "faith" is flawed we are all individuals. Fully embracing the teachings of Islam creates a misogynistic killer... Christianity do the opposite
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Lewis
Stella, I'm sorry you have such a negative view of Christianity. But I think you're not being fair in your arguments against Christians. Your looking at all these negative things in our society and attributing them to Christians and Christianity. How do you know most Christians support the death penalty? You acknowledge that Christians aren't beheading people but then say that they will in time, and then use that as an argument against them. You bring up various things affecting the US such as poverty rates, homelessness, and lack of health care, laying all the blame on Christianity. You focus heavily on negative things that supposedly Christian people do and apply that to the entire body of believers. What about the good that has been done by Christianity? What about the fact that there are over 84,000 Christian charities registered with the IRS, more than any other religion? What about the other ways Christianity has benefited society? Does none of this count?
You say that we should clean up our bad behavior before condemning another religion. That concept is found in the bible, in Matthew 7:3. Yet in your comments you have been condemning Christianity. I'm not saying it should be immune to criticism- it is one belief among many- but you lay on so heavily against that it seems all you have is enmity towards it
Yes, throughout history people and nations that claimed to be Christian committed grievous sins, but that history is only one side of the coin. It seems you can see the good in Islam despite it's sins throughout history, so why not try to see the good in Christianity?
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Stella
I find it interesting that you are concerned about my views of Christianity while an entire religion - Islam - and the millions of people who follow it - is/are being slandered on this blog - w/o one objection from you. Very Christ-like of you (not).
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Steve
Only the stupid left has ignored the fact that Islam is not a religion of peace. Go live in the Middle East and see for yourself; you won't last a month.
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David
Islam is not a religion of peace ...
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Tom
Blog reply
Hi all. First let me say I'm not a theologian nor am I an historian (though I have a niece who is, very proud) and my serious study of Islam is only a year or so old (not Muslim myself, just studying it as well as Christianity and Judaism) but here are my thoughts.
Stella,
I think that you are mostly on track. I would say that only the most ignorant of us would say western imperialism has nothing to do with what is currently happening in the middle east, but it is not "the cause" but just a factor (possibly even just an excuse). To our Muslim brothers out there reading this blog with a mixture of fear, disgust and confusion I would say: For the most part the vast majority of westerners are not at war with Islam. There two reasons for the aggression, first and foremost is not hate of Islam but love of oil (let the flame war commence) that drove governments to (not Christianity) to interfere in the middle east (in the 20th century at least). The second reason is to try and stem the tide of the already escalating violence, there are many arguments to be made as to why thats just plain stupid.
As to the argument that Christianity "grew out of its violent past", they kind of forget about the Branch Davidians, the KKK, Oklahoma City, and the many racists movements claiming legitimacy via the Bible, lets not get started on WW2.
Lewis,
You state, rather proudly, that there are over 84,000, Christian charities registered in the U?S alone. But did you know that all Muslims are required to give 10% of their wealth to the poor, all of them, as part of being a Muslim. Just as they must pray 5 time a day they must give alms to the poor. Much has been said about "the Christian Tax" the reason behind this is that Muslims can not force Christians to give Alms to the poor (not a requirement of the Christian faith) but if Christians are living in a Muslim city, is it not right and just that they take up their fair share of the burden? It may just be a semantic difference between "giving alms" and "being taxed" but it all goes to helping the poor. One very big question remains to my mind, this is what I have read and was told but, how is it working out in practice?
All,
There was a comment in the comments about women being worth only 1/2 a man (or words to that effect). The Quran itself teaches equality between the sexes. There are some seeming disparities however, for example a women only gets a third share of inheritance compared to a man, However a mans portion is required by religious law to go to supporting his family while a women's portion is completely hers to do with as she sees fit. Mohammed encouraged his wife and those of his followers to go out and work but there is a requirement that says she must the advice from two men when entering into contracts. The reasoning behind this was at the time women were very under educated and it was thought this was needed to keep them from being cheated. Personally I believe he underestimated women; I was asked to accompany my younger cousin when she went to buy here first car, her parents thought she would be taken in by the dealer. And the dealer did indeed try to expound on the merits of the radio, the mirrors, and the femininity of the car, but my cousin kept bring the subject back to gas milage, reliability, handling, and warranty almost bringing him to tears. She had not yet even graduated high school yet, I want her with me when I buy my next car.
The head to toe covering of women is not mandated in the Quran, all it says was that they should dress modestly (covering of the hair may have also been included) but that admonishment was made to both sexes.
The Quran does teach respect, but wariness, of other religions. It expressly forbids the forced conversion of others. I have been taking a course on Udemy that seeks to explain the differences between Christianity and Islam, or as the instructor say "convergence and divergence". Muslims have just as much misinformation on Christianity as we do on Muslims. For example, Muslims see the Holy trinity as a sign of polytheism in the Christian Church (worship of multiple gods), in the time of Muhammed polytheism was the source of much evil a "distaste" that exists to this day, though I would expect many Muslims would not know why. They do not understand that we see the Holy Trinity as just three aspects of the same God until its explained to them (my explanation is very poor and would not convince any one, the Udemy includes a much better explanation).
There is a strict prohibition against leaving the religion however; Islam is community over self interest, the west is more individual based, no bias for one over the other is implied, except for my personal bias as a westerner. To leave Islam is to weaken the community. Even in the west an attack against the community can not go unpunished. Lets not be so self centered to think our way is the best with at least considering their point of view.
Jihad is a loaded word, it is most often stated in the western press as meaning "Holy War" and while it does mean that it is most often used to mean "Holy Struggle", the personal struggle of a person to be the best Muslim he/she can be. A comment was made that Islam meant "submission" or "surrender" but it really means submission to God in all thing, that is what it means to be a Muslim.
Even when Jihad is used in the "Holy war" context the Quran sets strict Guide lines. It must never be used as a war of aggression, only defense. Once the danger has passed it must cease. I do admit that does not seem to be many limits placed on combatants during the conflict however, could one of our Muslim brothers comment on that please? The west does have rules of engagement to minimize harm to innocents and actions taken against enemy combatants must be humane, that seen to be lacking in the Muslim forces, this strongly needs to be clarified or it will always be a point of contention. The west does cross the boundaries of their own rules from time to time, but seldom with out consequent, though it can be argues not to a degree warranted. Personal opinion: drones are cowardly and they make me feel dirty.
Muslims are not at war with Christianity. There is very little Muslim on Christian violence, the vast majority is Muslim on Muslim. Much is made about the few executions of western prisoners but what about the mass executions of Muslims by ISIS whose only crime is protecting their hones? If this conflict was all about the west, then kicking us out would be the main goal, but many actions seem to be taken for the sole purpose of stopping us from leaving, when violence lessens and we start to,pull,out, it escalates again.
A comment about the probation against images of Mohammed, from what I have read he did not want to be worshiped and he felt images of himself might become objects of worship which he felt smacked of polytheism. Mohammed is thought by Islam to be the perfect example of how to live as a Muslim and they strive to emulate him in all things, thus a comment against Mohammed is perceived as a personal slight against all Muslims.
One last point, I cannot reconcile Sharia Law with what little I know about the Quran. The treatment of women seems to go against every thing Muhammed stood for. For a religion that maintains God as the Judge Sharia Law is very Judgemental. It was commented a number of times that the middle east seems to be stuck in the 14th century, and Sharia Law is no exception. Bill Maher states, when responding to the comment "there is only a very small minority that are extremist in Islam", that studies have shown that most Muslims believe in Sharia Law and that stoning is a valid punishment for adultery. I would counter: lets give it a test, give every Muslim a stone to throw at an adulterer and I content that the very vast majority would just drop it rather than throw it. Note: to give the test validity only the adulterer and the thrower should be present as "mob mentality" warps anyones morality.
There are 6 billion or so people on the earth and only a few thousand (a million at the absolute max) can be considered "evil" don't give them more power than they deserve. Of the over one billion Muslims on earth the vast majority live at pease with their neighbors, why paint with such a broad brush?
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Stella
Thank you. It is nice to see some common sense written here.
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Shepard Ofpeace
I agree. I've read half of the Koran. Can't say I understand it and wish someone could help me understand it. But so far I have found it to half as violent as the bible.
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Tom
There are a couple of Ted Talks that can help a little. The best for reading the Koran is by Lesley Hazleton "On reading the Koran". Bobby Ghosh's "Why Global Jihad is losing" has a good talk on, among other things, The true meaning of the word "jihad", and its not Holy War. Mustafa Akyol also has a good talk "Faith vs. tradition in Islam" covering the distinction of Cutural Tradition and Koranic tradition. All of us should listen to these, "http://www.ted.com". Note that only Mustafa is Muslim, Bobby is Hindu, I think, and Lesly is an "agnostic jew", if that matters to you.
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Sahar
Dear friends,
I am a muslim and very saddened by the misunderstandings and misconceptions many of you have about Islam. I joined ULC because I thought it would be a safe haeven from racists and people who hate and wrongly judge my religion. I am so disappointed. My answer to those who consider Islam a violent religion that kills jews and christians is the following: 1- Any religion used for geopolitical interests, includding buddhism can lead to war and violence. Islam is not an isolated example. 2- Please stop quoting the Quran out of context 3- Sharia law is a stereotyped "media" term that only means non separation of religion and state, there is no such thing as a specific "book of laws" that is a sharia law. it simply means basing laws on religious beliefs. These laws can be different based on personal believes. 4- Think about the major crimes humanity has committed and please tell me if it is the doing of muslims, for example: slavery in the US, European imperialism and colonialism, the extermination of 80% of the american native population, 6 million Jews exterminated in Europe, persecution of pagans in Europe by the inquisition. 5- Muslims did not burn people alive because they said the earth was round (as a matter of fact, in the quran, the earth and planets were already described as round celestial objects). during the dark ages, muslims perfected science and medicine, which was reappraised by Europeans in the renaissance. "Iqraa" which means "read" or "learn" was the first message from angel Gabriel to the prophet Muhammad. Science and knowledge are in the heart of the islamic faith: for men and women. In Islam the original sinn was committed by both Adam and Eve. Women do not bear the burden of the original sinn. Both Adam and Eve were equally created by God from Clay. 6- The so called "witches" in Salem were not hanged by muslims. 7- During the dark ages, Muslims protected Jews from inquisitors. 8- 1/2 the quran is based on the old testament, and as far as I know, the old israel was not conquered peacefully, as described in the bible. Convert or be killed was practiced by Jews and Christians way before Islam. 9- stoning was a punishment performed by jews and christians way before Islam. When islam arrived, it already was considered by all, muslims and non muslims as an acceptable punishment. Of course, things have changed, and in most muslim countries, such punishment does not exist anymore. These horrible punishments still exist in few radicalized countries that have less than 5% of islamic population worldwide. 10- radical islam was promoted in Afghanistahn by the US who armed al qaida to help fight the Russians: backfired. Afghanistan was a modern westernized islamic country in the 1950s and a Russian ally. During the cold war, the US armed and encouraged radical islamic rebels to overthrow the regime in order of fight the Russians. 11- ISIS: also initially armed by the US to fight the Syrian regime, which itself, was a very moderate and open islamic regime: backfired. 12- In 25 years, US interests in the middle east and US weapons have killed more muslim children, women and civilians than 5 times 9/11 altogether. 13- World war I, II, and the cold war are not the doing of the muslims. 15- The nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagazaki, which killed millions of innocent civilians, and caused 3 generations of deadly mutations and cancers did not fall from muslim planes. 16- radicals and terrorist are isloated groups of mercenaries and lost souls who use Islam as vessel to carry out their crimes. THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE MUSLIM FAITH. 17- the knowledge of a religion should not be based on media and isolated readings. You want to know the religion, you have to meet the people: TRAVEL, STUDY HISTORY, AND UNDERSTAND GEOGRAPHY. 18- For those who still believe that Islam is a religion of hate and war: please TRAVEL to these muslim countries and see for yourself, it may open your eyes a little bit: Morocco, Tunisia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Dubai, AbuDhabi etc..
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Brother John
Thank you Sahar! It must be disturbing to read the fanatical ramblings of those who know very little, if anything, about Muslims and Islam. You make some compelling points with intelligence and thoughtfulness. Please do not be deterred by any of the bigotry you find here and continue to add you knowledge to our discussions.
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pontotocbill
Sahhar, I understand what you wrote, but there are things that are not fully the truth. You commented on slavery in the US. Yes, we had slavery, but we abolished it. Fact is that the Royal Navy and US Navy stopped the slave trade across the Atlantic. Yet Islam permits slavery. Muslim slave traders sold slaves to the slave ship owners. You need to point a finger at Muslims also when dealing about slavery.
Nuclear bombs prevented even more innocent deaths that an invasion of Japan happen. Why is it that Muslim nations are threatening to use nuclear weapons? Iran in particular.
The deaths of the Jews during World War II did involve Muslims. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was Hitler's friend and the Mufti helped raise two divisions of WaffenSS infantry. Historical facts.
Al-Qaida did not exist during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Try again.
My point is this. Do not cherry pick problemas to blame en others while ignoring the faults of islam.
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Stella
Sahar, Thank you. I couldn't agree more and I'm not Muslim. I'm also not Christian or Jewish. I too am disappointed in the radical fanatical evangelical Christians on this site who spew hatred towards all Muslims. My guess is they haven't ever met a Muslim in person and are blinded by ignorance, xenophobia, and Fox News. Please don't think everyone involved with ULC is a bigot or thinks like these people. And pontotocbill - did you even read what you wrote? Talk about cherry picking. Your claims certainly aren't "fully the truth" and I've yet to see you admit to the atrocities committed and perpetrated by Christians and Jews. You simply say they are "in the past" as if that excuses them. The largest state sanctioned terrorists come out of Israel - look no further than how the Palestinians are treated. Yet if anyone dares says this they are accused of being anti-semetic. Well I said it - and I'm not anti-semetic. Sometimes the truth is painful and in order to be corrected sunshine must be shown on it. If we are going to talk terror and hatred then Israel and the United States must face the terror they instill and continue to cause.
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Sahar
Thanks Stella for your comments. thank you "Pontotocbill" One more important question is: why did we join ULC? We joined ULC to share wisdom, love and tolerance. Not to put religions on trial. I can find bad things to say about Islam, Judaism, christianity as much as I can find good things about them. Every religion and book has things that can be used to promote love and peace and other ideas that can be picked up to promote hatred or violence. The Verses used out of context in the Quran were messages to Mohammed ordering him to fight back. when Islam started, muslims were persecuted, tortured and killed. the term "non believer" designated the tribes that captured muslims and tortured them at that specific point in time. Not any non believer on Earth. These verses are the same verses used by conquerors, terrosists, criminals and people with political agendas to justify their wars and crimes. The people who put islam on trial use the same thought process. I don't believe in good or bad religion, but in good or bad actions committed by people. Saying that Islam or any religion is a fault itself doe not make sense to me. People are at fault. not religions. Every religion has an essence and a spiritual message. That is what we need to focus on. We can spend years trying to point out fingers and decide which religion is better than the other, I do not think that this is the reason why ULc was founded...
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Lewis
Sahar, thank you for this comment. I think everyone needs to remember your words, "People are at fault. Not religions" I wrote this article with the hopes that those who are less familiar with Islam could gain some understanding, for the better. I was discouraged to find that many people took to the comments with negative thoughts, not only on Islam, but on Christianity and other religions as well. But I suppose that has to be expected. I appreciate that you have kept your composure even as others have disrespected your beliefs. You have set a good example.
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Stella
I find your comment disingenuous Lewis. You wrote another article recently that has a separate blog with the intention of starting discuussion on "if the Islam god is so kind why does he permit such evil to persist?" - something to that effect. It will only generate more hate as already exhibited on this blog. I think you have repeatedly shown where you stand on Islam - and it is not a place of tolerance. I am suprised that you write articles for ULC - and disappointed.
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joseph
Stella, you've mentioned in a few of your comments on this blog that you feel the author is slandering Islam in the post. I have reread it a few times and can't find any such thing. Was it when he wrote that Islam is peaceful religion? Or when he called the Quran a literary masterwork? Pardon my confusion, but from what I've been reading here, the author hasn't slandered Islam at all despite your accusations. It seems irresponsible that you would portray someone in such a false light, particularly given your aggressive comment here to a perfectly respectful post Lewis made to Sahar...
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Stella
Joseph, I went through the blog and it appears many of the posts have been removed - particularly the more offensive ones. I also referred to another article that Lewis wrote and the blog following it. I would not attempt to portray someone in a false light. I based my comment on what I have read here. And you are correct that this particular response to Sahar was respectful - that's why I said I thought it was disingenuous based on other postings - that don't appear to be here anymore. Perhaps he has changed his mind on Islam. My apologies for any offense.
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pontotocbill
Sahar, thanks for the edification. However, the religious leaders of Islam define a non believer as a non Muslim. Please show me where I can find your view, as I have read the Quran and cannot find anything like that.
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Sahar
Dear Pontocbill, Yes, the Quran quotes (doesn't specifically define) non belivers as non muslims, but also quotes Christians and Jews as the "religions of the book". Muslims like Christians, believe in the return of Jesus the Messiah, and that we must follow his lead when he returns. The Quran is like any other religious book: it compiles stories of the old testament but also the directions god gave to Mohammed through angel Gabriel. These directions were given in a context of war with the "non believer tribes" who were fighting muslims in that particular present time. Yes, after the death of muhammed, muslim leaders used these directions as an incentive to go to war and spread the religion. But this is not exclusive to muslims. Men from many religions used religion for their geopolitical agendas. When you quote what some imams say about killing the jews and the christians, you must know that imams are like pastors, they speak for themselves and do not ask anyone's permission for what they will say. They do not represent muslims as a community but just themselves. There are pastors in the US who preach hate against the gays, the blacks, muslims and all that is not Christian. But they only represent themselves. Today there are 49 muslim "majority" countries, you cannot think of all muslims as one community. Every country has its religious specificities and cultural traditions. For example I am an american muslim with north African origins, I have no cultural ties to muslims form the middle east or from central Asia. It is like saying that "all Christians do this or do that" or that the French are the same as the Italians... There isn't one Islam, but millions of muslim with different islamic traditions. Yes out of 49 mulsim countries, there are 7 islamic sountries that haven't really evolved and treat women badly and practice stoning. But why don't you quote the real majority: 42 other countries, such as Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Turkey Indonesia, Malaysia, .... where women are doctors, engineers, Colonels, government representatives and lawyers etc. That is not even mentionning the large islamic communities in China, Russia, India and the Balkans. Do you know that the first country to recognize the freedom of the american people was a muslim country? The king of Morocco was the first foreign leader to send a letter to George Washington recognizing the US nation as a free sovereign nation, independant from the British empire. When you quoted the imam who met Hitler, why didn't you talk about the hundreds of thousands muslims from North African British and French Colonies who faught against Germany alongside the allies and gave their life: my grand father is one of them. Are you aware that when hitler took over France, it is the French colonies of North Africa that gave the allies the momentum they needed to fight back? these are muslim countries, with muslim people. Even today, who is helping the US fight the war against terrorism? Who is helping locally with base support, intelligence and authorizing US planes to use their Air fields, local bases and fly over their territories: Muslim allies! Terrorists are recruiting among muslims, but so Is the CIA and the FBI to help fight this horrible disease. Americans have much more muslim allies that enemies. When one does not even know friends from enemies, how do they expect to win a war! Who is ISIS killing on a daily basis? Other muslims who are fighting them. Muslims are the front line victims of these terrorist criminals. For every western hostage that gets killed, 100 other musilms die everyday at the hands of ISIS or other radical terrorists. I truely believe that the war gainst terrorism can only be won with westerns and muslims working together. If you are on a personal crusade to proove that "Islam is bad", there is nothing I can really say that can change your mind. because like I said, there isn't such thing as one Islam, but 1.5 billion muslims (23%) of the world's population. To tell you the truth The only way for you to really understand Islam, is to travel to peaceful muslim countries and interact with other muslims. You will be surprised to see that christians, jews and muslims coexist with each other in peace and harmony. Reading a translated book is not enough, especially that the Qoran is written in poetry, and all translations are based on the translators personal understandings of the verses. Even Islamic scholars among themsleves disagree on a lot of concepts.
My personal opinion is that the preachings of the Bible, the Torah and the Qoran have more in common than in "not common". Even non monotheistic spiritual philosophies preach almost the same values. God speaks to all of us in different ways: books and religions are only our way to communicate his message.
I am not trying to be right, win the argument or have the last word. But if my effort can clear your heart from any hate you feel towards muslims, then it was not in vain.
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Stella
Sahar,
Thank you. Beautifully said. I wish all the Muslim haters who have posted here would read your words and take them to heart. In the end people are people. We all have our beliefs, customs, traditions and bascially want to live in peace and have our needs met. And we all bleed red. It is somewhat ironic how people forget how as humans we are more the same than less regardless of religious or political views. Thank you again for your most intelligent and beautiful response.
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pontotocbill
Sahar, I appreciate your time and efforts to speak the truth. For that, I am in your debt. I agree that Muslims are the largest group of victims by other Muslims. I do not forget, though, the Christians, Jews, and other religions that suffer. I know that the French colonies of North Africa did help the Allies after the Allied invasions of Operation Torch. My grandfather was in World War I and my dad was too young during World War II. For your grandfather's actions and willingness to fight the evil of Nazism, I salute him as a retired USAF veteran for his sacrifices and his honor.
The Quran I have is from CAIR. I have real problems as it is not a coherent book with a storyline. Instead, I found that I am constantly bouncing from sura to another to try and maintain understanding. Do you know of a better copy of the Quran that is readily available? If so, I'd like to read that translation. Unfortunately, the CAIR version left me with many qualms about what I read.
Again, I thank you for your time, your efforts, and your postings. They have given me several points to think and ponder upon.
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Brother John
Thank you for your patience and persistence in sharing your knowledge in a venue that is often inundated with fundamentalist Christian opinions. I encourage you to continuing shedding the light of truth and education on those who may live in darkness. I agree with your belief in commonalities between the Abrahamic religions and others. It's in the spirit of the ULC. Here's a copy of an article I wrote and published in our local newspaper…..
The Golden Rule
The Ten Commandments are the cornerstone for the conduct of Christians. You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in the single commandment known commonly as the Golden Rule: “do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
As much of the current and past violence in the world is between different religions, it’s time we’re all reminded that no one religion has a lock on the truth and most have a version of this commandment in their holy books. It is normally intended to apply to the entire human race. Unfortunately, it is too often applied by some people only to fellow believers.
The Dalai Lama said:"Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people's suffering. On these lines every religion has more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal."
Confucianism:"Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you"
Analects Hinduism: This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517
Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths."
Judaism: What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.
Taoism: To those who are good to me, I am good; to those who are not good to me, I am also good. Thus all get to be good."
Buddhism: “hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18
Here on this beautiful island in this extraordinary country, we remain isolated from the horror of war. The wars we fight are in other countries, usually with other races and religions. We haven’t experienced the despair and humiliation of being occupied by foreign troops. We don’t live in fear of our lives, have our cities and infrastructure destroyed, family members slaughtered and freedoms restricted. We may have even allowed hatred for people who are no threat to us into our hearts and minds because we’re told they are the enemy by those who profit from war.
You don’t have to be a Bible scholar to understand the Golden Rule. You don’t need encyclopedic knowledge of the Bible to be a Christian. All too often religious differences are over inconsequential details and slanted interpretations of sacred writings.
If all religions focused on this simple moral commandment instead of fighting over the differences, perhaps peace rather than war would become the norm. We all inhabit this earth together and are more alike than we are different.
Brother John is ordained through the Universal Life Church who’s motto is “Do What is Right”
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pontotocbill
Stella, yes, I did and do read and understand what I write. For you to calle Isreal the largest state sanctioned terroristas is the absolute height of unbelieveability, hay stupidity. Your comment has absolutely NO basis in actual facts. Hamas is responsible forma the vast majority of problems un Gaza, not Israel. That is fact! Tell me if the truth is painful as you are now reading the truth. Also, please tell me what is wrong with what I wrote. Try, but everything I wrote is fact.
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Is universal life church Muslim?
as a minister of unl I did not become ordained in an organized religion. I became ordained as a minister of humanity. peaceful I might add and with thoughts of people accepting one another as people who live in a big world rather than people who profess to make the world small. living together is the challenge and could also be considered as a religion definitely a discipline.
I see the ULC as a body that recognizes and accepts the Muslim faith as a legitimate source to seek wisdom, faith, and edification in ones spiritual journey.
If you want the truth you should read 'Islamic invasion' by Paul Morley. Or for a summery of the truth on Islam I suggest you visit David Fanklynns facebook page
Assuming you are not attempting to be flippant, I'm not sure I understand your question. The ULC is supposed to be all inclusive and tolerant of all peaceful religions and spiritual philosophies. At times this may not seem to be the case, but it is the intent.
Hello, I have decided to leave this comment due to the topic having much controversy.... I believe as a Universal Life Minister that all these books in written form have truth to them , but yet are fallible due to the fact that Men translated them....But so many scriptural books have so many things in common...reason...they all came from the same source.."GOD" ... it is truly a shame on humanities part when we all fail to see, and acknowledge the patential of our Creator in each and every person....we are told that many will come to deceive us...we watch them come and go ...realize who and what they are , and still allow them to tear apart UNITY....there are clear warnings..in everyone of these beliefs about this yet we fail to truly listen or understand them...I do believe that the Qur'an , Bible , and so on are apart of each other, and are not complete without the other...there are too many scriptures and stories, Ideas that follow the others... Now are we willing to find them and connect them so the "TRUTH may be found...or are we happy and comfortable where we are???
Universal is to say all things...so it is not Muslim but shows respect and Unity towards Muslims as well as all others...I believe this is a good thing.
Well, what does the Quran say? It says to dominate the entire planet by the sword, kill everyone including their children if they do not convert. Now is Islam engaged in over 100 wars on this planet murdering people in the name of Allah or not. Well, yes, they are. Islam is disgusting, no sane, human being who cares about other human beings should give Islam a second's worth of time. When and if Islam stops murdering people and takes a big fat eraser and removes all the parts of the Quran that says to murder people if they do not submit (in Arabic the word for submission is Islam)...then it might be a decent religion. But then there is the problem with how they treat women. The companion to the Quran is the Hadith which says that women are 2/3rds a human being. Islam still holds 80,000 other human beings as slaves. Why did you dirty up your website with anything Islamic? What is your point.
Where did you get your "facts"? Please list the 100 wars on the planet where Muslims are murdering people. Like many posts here you just make it up and expect people to believe you. Well I'm not buying. You are a bigot - that's clear. Your choice. But don't expect everyone to believe your hate.
Well said...
Comments like yours, weismonger, are vivid examples of the acceptance the ULC and this forum, of diverse views. Our motto exemplifies this openness….. "To Do That Which is Right (as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others) and to allow for the Freedom of Religion." Many of us believe that only by understanding, recognizing and living the core messages of the various belief systems will we find the common truths in them. There are many paths, but only one Reality/God. All modern spiritual beliefs systems have one common core. The Golden Rule, which can be stated in many languages and in many formats. But the message is always the same. Treat others as you would like to be treated. All the rest with the bizarre laws and commandments, the lineage, the recollections of dreams and visions, were all added by men over many centuries. In most cases, the core message is buried in mountains of details, most of which aren't historical or true. They were written, however, by a select groups of men to subjugate the masses and keep power, wealth and control in their hands. Control of people's minds by writing their common belief systems for them, plus a good dose of threats and fear to re-enforce them, and rest is easy. But it only works if enough people believe your story. This is the awakening we're looking for here. Many of our beliefs are false. They create a false Reality only because enough of us believe, in many cases, things that simply aren't true. Things that may have been designed to enslave you, not in empower you. Accepting the Truth when it's contrary to long held and commonly shared beliefs is difficult due to Cognitive Dissonance. I encourage weismonger and others who are promoting religious discord and hatred, to really examine their beliefs and have the courage to discard those that don't pass the Golden Rule test. They shouldn't cause or encourage harm to others, period. If your beliefs are too deeply ingrained, after some serious thought and examination, to remove, and your post is a clear indication of what you believe and how you feel, there are other venues that aren't promoting peace, understanding and unity like the ULC community is doing.
Thank you Brother John. I have been appalled at the hatred exhibiited on this blog and seriously wondered if it had been infiltrated by the evangelical right. I decided to quit responding because I was forgetting to be civil - got sucked in. But I greatly appreciate your wisdom and truth-telling. It gives me hope that not all is wasted at ULC. My religion is the golden rule. It's so simple and yet so difficult for some people - including me when I forget to be mindful. Thank you again for the sanity you bring to this blog.