As students in Texas return to the classrooms this year, they'll be met with a new slogan: "In God We Trust."
That's thanks to a Texas law passed last year that says signs and posters with the words "In God We Trust" must be displayed on school campuses – so long as they've been donated by an outside group and thus don't cost the school any money.
It further mandates that the signs must be displayed "in a conspicuous location," not tucked away somewhere out of view.
Now critics and secular activists are pushing back, arguing that this is yet another covert attempt by Christians to evangelize to schoolchildren.
God: Coming to a Classroom Near You
The bill's champions have a simple explanation for their support. "We just felt like it was a great opportunity to display our national motto in our public schools," said state representative and co-author of the bill, Tom Oliverson. "This was an idea I had after seeing something similar happen in a couple different states."
Oliverson’s claim seems to be that this is simply a way for schools to show their patriotism. But one of the bill’s other co-authors recently tweeted that his intention in writing the bill was indeed to put God in the classroom.
Advocates for secularism are sounding alarm bells, arguing that this is, well, exactly what its supporters say it is: evangelism in public schools.
“These posters demonstrate the more casual ways a state can impose religion on the public,” explains Sophie Ellman-Golan of the activist group Jews for Racial & Economic Justice. “Alone, they’re a basic violation of the separation of church and state. But in the broader context, it’s hard not to see them as part of the larger Christian nationalist project.”
The bill has stringent guidelines on what posters can look like. Only three things are allowed: The text "In God We Trust," the American flag, and the flag of the state of Texas.
The requirements are laid out in what appears to be a "no trolling" clause in the bill, which clarifies that the signs cannot “depict any words, images, or other information” beyond the three elements listed.
It’s a clear attempt to prevent cheeky protests like framing a dollar bill, as one Kentucky school did when a similar bill passed there.
The language was troll-proof… or so the authors thought.
Finding the Weak Spot
As it turns out, one atheist activist found a loophole that he believes will perfectly – and legally – upset the bill’s supporters.
Activist Chaz Stevens (best known for his attempt to ban the Bible in Florida schools after Florida passed a bill banning “pornographic” books from school libraries) has announced a plan to thwart the law.
Stevens noticed that the bill says the words "In God We Trust" must be written on the posters, but that the bill doesn’t specify which language it must be written in.
So, he submitted posters with the message written in Arabic.
Texas teachers are apparently lining up to collect their Arabic "In God We Trust" posters, and per the law, the school must display them.
Update, 8/29/22: In another example of malicious compliance, a new design has apparently been submitted by local man Sravan Krishna to flout the policy.
The posters will likely ruffle a few feathers, but it's unclear whether they will lead to any changes or amendments to the bill.
Meanwhile, the larger issue remains: whether those words should actually be displayed in public schools in the first place.
Several states already mandate it under the reasoning that the national motto can be displayed in public places without issue. However, critics maintain that because it’s clear which god is being referred to, it therefore preferences one religion over others.
Is putting "In God We Trust" in public schools appropriate, considering it is our national motto? Or does it unconstitutionally insert Christianity into public life?
Update, 8/30/22: Carroll ISD, the district where the rainbow/Arabic signs had been donated, rejected the alternative designs on Tuesday in favor of a more conventional "In God We Trust" sign donated by a local cellphone company.
School board officials indicated at their public meeting that they believe the new law only requires them to display one donated poster in a school at any given time, apparently leaving no room for Mr. Krishna's variation. He has challenged their decision.
162 comments
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James Riggle-Johnson
The founding fathers did not use this slogan when they formed our Republic. It was added, as a motto on October 1, 1957. We don't want a Pride Flag in the classroom, but religious propaganda is allowed? WTF?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Just another piece of history Christians seem to overlook.
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Timothy Holland Sr
I’ve been saying for such a long time how dare we as a country say “ IN GOD WE TRUST” when obviously there is so much we don’t trust him on.
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Lionheart
And if there is a God, do we know if the pronoun of “him” is correct?🤔
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James Lynn Jones
Well through Jesus there was a huge fishy smell from such a few.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart, traditionally God has been referred to as Him. But we know from ancient Hebrew that the Holy Spirit is a 'she': Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit, the Comforting [mother])
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Lionheart
Thank you for that, George, that’s interesting. So, it seems then, if I understand correctly, that Hebrew’s referred to something that is called the “Holy Spirit” as female.
Do they identify what the Holy Spirit is, or is it just something else they created just to go along with the story?
Thanks for your reply.
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Pastor Jim
I sorta like the sentiment expressed in Desiderata on the subject...
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul."
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Rev. Barry
Very well stated
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I fondly remember the variation, Deteriorata, especially the last 2 verses. ;-)
You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here. And whether you can hear it or not, The universe is laughing behind your back.
Therefore, make peace with your god, Whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin. With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal, The world continues to deteriorate. Give up!
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Cynthia Kay Looney
Perfectly expressed!
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Rev. Rory
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul."
I would like that to be posted in every Texas school.
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Rev. Rory
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul."
That is beautiful.
There are a few angry people posting here. May they find peace. May they understand what the Pope tweeted some months ago about "religiosity." It applies to all religions.-
Pastor George Day
Rev. Rory, I think these few angry people should also get in the habit of reading the guidelines and meditating on the Desiderata at the end of each discussion here in the Monastery.
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Pastor George Day
James Michael Fish, I see I'm not the only one ending these discussions with the Desiderata :-)!
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Stacey Owens
In what god do they trust, the Nationalist god?
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Lionheart
.....or the Socialist God?
Personally, I always quite liked the God, Dionysus, the god of wine. 🍷
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Rev. B
From what I've observed, they only trust the white one.
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Stacey Owens
Oh, this god is a god of conditions.
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Colleen McAllister
I have no problem with the motto being posted in a school. I do have a problem with it being mandated. Freedom of religion, not religion abandoned. Freely posted is fine, as is it being translated to other languages.
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Krystina S.
Actually, we are also to be free FROM religion in the public/governmental space. Not only are many people NOT Believers in God, but many people are also Believers in GODS. It is just wrong.
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Colleen McAllister
Kristina where do you get freedom from religion? That is not in the Constitution.
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
The founding fathers had great history lessons when governments promote a religion. Remember England States’ on and off religious views where battles were fought and people burned at the stake? What about the Thirty Years War. They remember their ancestors coming here to escape persecution and discrimination by the State. Yet once here the Puritans persecuted the Quakers (see New Hampshirite history and Richard Waldron).
The Constitution’s religious CLAUSES were meant to avoid wars and persecution. Government stays neutral. It doesn’t take much of a history lesson to understand the problem. Look at Iraq, look at Sudan, look at Iran vs Saudi Arabia, look at Israel and Palestinians. Oh don’t forget decades of violence in Ireland between Protestants and Catholics.
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Pastor George Day
Krystina S., whichever 'gods' you claim to believe in, it is rational and clear there is one transcendent intelligence behind the universe. Call it what you like!
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Pastor George Day
Colleen McAllister, I do not understand this bill as mandating Christianity. God can be anything anyone understands him to be. He doesn’t really care, to be fair... as long as we don’t think WE are God. That’s called humility. Then he will guide each one on their path.
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Daniel Gray
Get Mad all you want but the fact remains that the SCOTUS Newdow decisions clearly say that our national motto is constitutional and legal, no so matter if its written in Arabic or Chinese or Latin or Greek or the language of the Picts (ancient Irish warriors) its all legal and constitutional and since it was a 9-0 decision the ONLY way to overturn that is to remove this decision by a 2/3rds vote by BOTH Houses of Congress.
And can you teach religion on school time? yes. IF you follow these rules
- You must have a signed letter from the parents authorizing this
- It must not be lead by a school official
- It must be financed by the parents of the school children that want to do this.
- It CAN be on school property as in essence what the parents would be doing is renting one of the rooms in the school building and as such can be used for any reason they want and it cannot be denied no matter what the local school board or state law says as this is federal law and it overturns any state or local law.
For instance we had a child that was wearing a shirt with a religious saying on it and the name of Jesus on it as well. We then had a "teacher" who got his panties in a knot and started giving this child a detention each time she wore the shirt. Finally the parents had had enough and had a nice long talk with the principal and the school board about this and they backed down so fast it wasnt funny and the "teacher" was demoted and almost dismissed as this was a federal felony. We had another child who prayed over his food before eating lunch,same thing. The Cafeteria attendant went off about it and the end result was she was fired and almost brought up on charges.The fact of the matter is that this is perfectly legal and constitutional according to the SCOTUS and there isnt a darn thing anyone can do about it unless they get the law changed.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray It’s actions like the two you have described that is showing students just how spiteful and intolerable Christians are. Just look at how dope (stupid) this is form the students point of view. The students know our schools are in desperate need of teachers and cafetière staff. And here come these fanatical Christians with their God and pitchforks to get good teachers and cafeteria staff fired. Once you did that you had better believe word spread through the student population.
You can stand on your Washington DC SCOTUS ruling, but in the schoolyard the students are experiencing the actions of what they refer to as dope Christians.
You have given young people two more reasons not to become Christian. The Christian religion is dying out quickly with the youth of America today. And if you have ever been at a school, you know the non-Christian kids are bullying the Christian kid for punishing a good teacher and having to wait in the lunch line much longer.
What do you think is having the greatest impact on the students? The SCOTUS ruling or the demotion of their teacher and the firing of someone who was feeding them everyday?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
You mean indoctrination, not feeding. You're so WOKE you wouldn't know if a rattlesnake bit you in the butt and hung there and you didn't feel it. You'd probably think it was the tail that's part of your tailbone. Why don't you quit replying with your hateful comments about Christians who speak up for those who can't. Each time your mouth opens more crap comes out. So please quit appearing like a fool.
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
I agree with you in regards to Douglas, but tone it down. Your words go anger don’t help. Also I agree with Daniel, who is simply stating the truth without taking sides.
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Daniel Gray
how exactly? it does not say WHAT God now does it? and what I stated about teaching religion in schools is accurate and is constitutional as per the SCOTUS so if you have a problem with it then go talk to them. I am sure you will be listened to and then dealt with just like they did with Newdow.
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David Cox
Just like Satan turning stuff around...sound like a second grader
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler, Christians have been persecuted on and off since the times of the Romans... we are still here!
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John P Maher
THEY HAVE BEEN GOING TO HELL for HUNDREDS of YEARS and STILL WANT to PUSH the SAME STUPID B S,
IN G O D WE * TRUST ???
WHOs GOD ??? WHAT GOD ??? and WHERE GOD ???
THE ONLY THING I AM SURE of IS SOMEBODIES G O D MADE A LOT OF IGNORANT A Hs, BLESS THE LORD !
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Pastor George Day
John P Maher, what pills are you on? Are you sure it's the correct medication?
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
As a ULC Bishop, who’s been sainted twice and also has a DD, and four doctorates related to my DD, and in addition, is the president of the Secular Humanist Pantheists ( the only organization that can actually prove the existence of God) because nature and God are the same thing; claiming to “Trust in God” when God is nature— is unnecessary.
After all, what other choice do we have?
I don’t trust in nature — I just try to understand it, and improve upon it, as the need be.
My God weds no trust — but the Christian God does — because there’s no evidence that a Christian God exists.
Ergo, Christian politicians, pandering to their sheeple by posting “In God We Trust” — should post “In the Christian God We Trust” otherwise there’s no way to figure out precisely which God they’re talking about.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I can see you're fully WOKE. You're bragging about yourself. A true person who believed in God wouldn't brag about their own laurels. You would be humble. Otherwise, basically you're a scumbag. Who fricken cares how many degrees or whatever you have under your belt. Acquire some humilitybecause God is going to take you down a couple of notches. You might find yourself in hell. That's the real climate change compared to the fake climate change you WOKE nutsacks believe in.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Keith Allen Steele Eash My God with words like that you are NO Christian. A true Christian would NEVER say something like you did to a fellow human being. Ask yourself, WWJD? Certainly not what you are doing.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I call it as I see it. And no Christians do and have every right to speak harshly against people living in sin. Jesus was no nice loving character calling pharisees hypocrites. My God get a life.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Keith Allen Steele Eash Who is living in sin?
And yes, Christians do and have every right to speak harshly against people living in sin but God, the Bible and Jesus tells them not to do it.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Afraid you're reading the wrong Bible. Out of love Jesus does tell sinners harshly at times and at times he doesn't.
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler, can you quote some biblical passages to back your claim?
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David Cox
They should have a Bible for dummies you would definitely need one....Satan is speaking through and you don't even know it...and you think you have power over the creator...you were created....you don't understand God because you don't know him
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A James Baird
Why, oh why, do you have to begin every comment with the same, tired litany of your qualifications. Got it, you think that you're the most qualified person on this site... whatever.
Proclaiming that God is Nature, and therefore you're the only group who can prove the existence of God, is the same as proclaiming that only God could have created the Universe, therefore the existence of the Universe proves the existence of God.
It's called Circular Logic, but I prefer the term Bootstrap Levitation (can't remember where I first read that term, but it has stuck in my mind for years).
Try just saying, "This is my opinion -- ABC...XYZ!) Done! Think you can handle that? From what I've seen over the last few years, I doubt it, but I'd truly like to see it.
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A James Baird
Why, oh why, do you have to begin every comment with the same, tired litany of your qualifications. Got it, you think that you're the most qualified person on this site... whatever.
Proclaiming that God is Nature, and therefore you're the only group who can prove the existence of God, is the same as proclaiming that only God could have created the Universe, therefore the existence of the Universe proves the existence of God.
It's called Circular Logic, but I prefer the term Bootstrap Levitation (can't remember where I first read that term, but it has stuck in my mind for years).
Try just saying, "This is my opinion -- ABC...XYZ!) Done! Think you can handle that? From what I've seen over the last few years, I doubt it, but I'd truly like to see it.
I hope for more congenial openness, and Universal acceptance... hmm, isn't that word, "Universal" found somewhere on this site?!?
All my best to all of you out there.
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Keith Graham Ainsworth
Calling someone a hypocrite Is better than calling them a woke nutsack though. Interesting that most "Christians" these days are hypocrites, as you demonstrate so well
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Vicki Lynn Mallory
Separation of Church from State simply means, No State shall OWN or OPERATE a Church. It has nothing to do with the CHURCH and BIBLE being in State buildings. Humans are ridiculous.
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Michael LaRocca
This amazing planet we live on is a living-breathing thing that changes and grows everyday. Some want to keep us stuck in time or go back in time. I believe that some believe the image on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel shows them who "God" is... An old white man, with a long white beard, sitting on a cloud just above Earth writing down in his book who has been naughty and who has been nice. That's Santa Claus people, not God. When you look at the recent pictures from the Webb Space Telescope where you are seeing billions of galaxies looking back in time billions of years, how can anyone believe they can define God? Are we that pretentious as a species that we can actully say God's pronouns are he/him? The United States is NOT a Christian nation. Do your own research and find out why "In God We Trust" was added to the money and why "One Nation Under God" was added to the pledge. Our founders gave us freedom of religion. We are now a very diversified country. I for one love that and I hope you do as well. If you cannot accept the diversity, I have a challenge for you... If you don't like Muslims, Jews, Gay People, Black People, Latinos, that Woman should have control over their own bodies, any one of these, or something else you just don't believe is good for our country... Have luch or dinner with one of the people you dislike. Tell them why you dislike them and then let them talk about who they are and why they believe there is a place for diversity in the USA. Thanks for reading. With Love, Peace, Blessings & Equality... Michael.
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Cynthia Kay Looney
We should all be so open minded.
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Pastor George Day
Thank you, Michael LaRocca, for this blunt comment :-)!
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Amy Varela
Of course this is Texas. Of course it is. Violating people's rights as often as possible.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Remember not too long ago it was the folks in Texas which tried to pass a law banning the teaching of critical thinking in public schools.
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Lionheart
This is from "Grooming Minds: The Abuse of Child Indoctrination." by TheraminTrees
Teach children critical thinking skills. and you can persuade them to believe whatever you can substantiate.
Seduce and terrorize children with fantasies, punish their dissent, and reward their submission, and you can groom them to believe whatever you like.
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Nicholas J Page
What next not teaching religion in any school
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James Riggle-Johnson
They can teach religion in Sunday School.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Religion isn’t taught — it’s repeated over and over again till it’s believed without any question. .
One is brainwashed into a religion — which isn’t the same as learning,
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
That's not the nation's fault. It's the governments fault and it comes down to those who vote as the 1st fault.
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Lionheart
I agree! As an education, all children should be taught about all of the worlds religions to help them become aware of how geography of birth, culture, family, etc, can become the unsuspecting catalyst to indoctrinate human beings all the way from childhood.
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Cj
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Kevan B Copelin
Make “LOVE” your God! Through the truth, Grace, mercy, forgiveness and caring that comes from God and your troubles and burdens will be light. Then, on judgement day, the judge will already know you and eventually let you in. “Earth equals Humans with two options; LOVE or hate! LOVE wins! E=H2O”
“Human Project-LOVE”
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Lionheart
So, are you one of those that preaches the fallacy of meeting a god on some form of a judgement day to decide where people will go, Heaven, or Hell? If there is a Hell, I wonder if it's the Egyptian Hell (Duat), the Mormon Hell, or the Muslim Hell, or the Christian Hell, or one of the many others? 🤔
I never did quite figure out why any god would "scare" people into being good. No wonder there are so many religionists on Prozac.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart, hell is merely the eternal and irrevocable separation from God, as the only ultimate source of our happiness. Human imagination has portrayed it in many ways, but it is wrong to believe it is a 'place' created by God. God does not want hell. Human beings who reject God create their own hell. We see many examples here of many who, due to free will, reject the God of inner freedom and let themselves be submitted by and addicted into unruly passions (many ending up in jail, an earthly form of 'hell'). Jesus took hell upon himself as he experienced eternal separation from the Father on the cross. Him being true God and true man, this is a mystery we cannot understand. But we know from Peter's epistle that hell could not bind him, and once there he preached the gospel of salvation to those who were already there.
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Lionheart
Until you can demonstrably prove any god is real, George, even the one you believe in, everything you just mentioned are just anecdotal stories.
We still don’t have any concrete evidence that the Jesus of the Bible really existed, even though it’s possible someone of that name did.
Thank you for your thoughts though.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart, at some point we just have to cross a line and agree to disagree. I do not intend to change your mind, nor can you change mine. Faith, by definition, does not require evidence as it translates 'trust.' Nevertheless, I can share with you what my faith has done for me and how it has changed my life around, from a past of active addiction to a present of successful life as a teacher and pastor in my community. What can you share about what your atheism did for you? And bear in mind that you too cannot provide evidence for the non-existence of God, so in a way yours too is a 'faith.'
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Lionheart
Perhaps the difference between you and I, George, is that I can indeed have my mind changed, but it requires solid evidence, using logic, and reason.
I once believed in a god because I did as many others did, and that was to just accept things on faith. Once I grew up, and had a mind of my own, I questioned my indoctrination, and what I had been taught to believe. When I came to the reality that there was no evidence whatsoever to substantiate those beliefs you couldn’t see my shirt-tails for dust. I got out as quickly as I could. My life changed so much better as a result. Opportunities arose, I made a whole new life for myself, and my family, here in the US. Was that because I left religion? I doubt it! It was possibly because my mind became clearer of thought, and not bogged down with dogma.
I do realise some people need to believe in deities, and all the stories that go with all religions, and as a result, they thoroughly enjoy it. I am not here to deconvert anyone, all I do is just point out my observations for truth.
If any of the worlds supposed omnipotent deities would come and show me they are real I would become the worlds biggest fan. But if the best they can all do is to suggest we all rely on “hand-me-down books”, or “feelings” that it’s true, I want nothing to do with it.
I’m pleased though that you decided to go with a none-factual belief structure to turn your life around. Many do! 🤗
Thanks for your comment.
🦁❤️
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Michael Hinkle
Our Great American, USA, was founded by our fathers of our country on the foundation of God's Trust and Faith. This great country USA where we all united together to make our country unique on quality of life and freedom and live our dreams. God Blesd America and In God We Trust forever and ever.
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James Riggle-Johnson
No it wasn't. It was created specifically to leave religion out of the equation. The country is the State and it is separate from Religion.
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David Cox
Do you know what that means?
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Pastor George Day
Yes. UK, Commonwealth, Denmark, and Vatican City State have religion established as part of their governments - hence the King and Pope are both heads of State and heads of the Church. Russia is beginning to restore this form of government as well with Putin acting as 'czar.' Other countries, like the USA and its First Amendment, have separation of State and Church.
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David Cox
Do you know what that means?
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Stewart
Sadly you are under educated in the history of our founders . Jefferson the man most responsible for the Commonwealth of Virginia s constitutions freedom of religion clause stated there is a wall between church and state and it should never be breached .
As did many of them having seen what the nations of europe had to deal with after hundreds of years of church inspired war .
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Nathaniel Robert Hunt
Then there is no real freedom ,the bible isn't a democracy or democratic republic but a theocratic monarchy. I would add which god? The Baptist, Catholic, Church of Christ? and if you say "they are the same god" you have never talked to these people who claim only their denomination has the right god.
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Pastor George Day
Nathaniel Robert Hunt, you are confusing church government, theology, and revelation.
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Michael Burton
The First Amendment provides several rights protections: to express ideas through speech and the press, to assemble or gather with a group to protest or for other reasons, and to ask the government to fix problems. It also protects the right to religious beliefs and practices. It prevents the government from creating or favoring a religion. The motto "In God We Trust" implies that "God" is apart from humans and is an element that requires that humans place thier 'trust" in that entity. Trust in what? How about trust that "god" delivered Texas during thier efforts to overthrow the Mexican goverments control of those lands; when in fact, the real casue was to allow Texans (White, interlopers who moved there) to maintain slavery, which the Mexicans outlawed. If trusting "God" means allowing one group to dominate another, I would have no trust in that god or any politician who perpetuated such arcane ideas
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Michael Hinkle Yes it was and the white Europeans as said God gave the white Europeans American to rape kill, and pillage in "Manifest Destiny" in the name of God. We are now the victims of God's Manifest Destiny. Just look at how screwed-up our country is including our political system. Seems God doesn't like what we have done.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Actually no Allah is only the false God Islam. Allah for Christians and Jews is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Muslims never say Isaaac and Jacob.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
By definition Allah is God. Allah is not a false God. Where did you learn that?
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Dan Anderson
Michael - May I recommend you refer to the history of why the paper money says "In God We Trust" 1956-7, and why in the Pledge of Allegience the phrase "Under God" was added in 1954.
In God We Trust - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFP_jfZFytQ
Under God - https://www.history.com/news/pledge-allegiance-under-god-schools
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Michael Burton
The first time the "motto" appeared was in thr 1860's and on a two cent piece, which in my opinion is just about what it is worth. The motto push inthe 1950's was during the Commie scare, to make sure the US was different from the "godless" communists--trying to fight wars with words...
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Pledge of allegiance is no longer being said in public schools nowadays because of the “Under God” addition.
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Krystina S.
Also, there is no requirement for any individual in our nation to pledge to the country, with or without the Under God addition. That is our right.
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler, what a shame!
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
All religions are attempts at “personifying” nature - the un, under, mal, mis, and dogmatically socialized, prefer religious mythologies to explain reality — because fairytales are far easier for MAGA-types to learn, than the actual hard and soft science required to deal with reality.
Religions are social control devices, that the rich and the otherwise powerful fully support, because (as Napoleon noted) religion is the only institution that keeps the poor and oppressed, from eliminating their upperclass oppressors.
Religion — the opium of the MAGA’ers.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
So many of you.people in here are so WOKE I.puke on all of you that are. Stay e meets like "Nationalist God", "a God of Conditions". It's about time we start acknowledging God. We've been acknowledging Satan way to long.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Reason we’ve been acknowledging Satan for so long is God hasn’t done anything for us lately except make people’s lives miserable.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
You are so hateful towards God that something must have really hurt you once that you make such hateful comments. You're just WOKE but definitely not awake. Do you have a little girl just wanting to burst out? Or proclaim your gender is other then a human? You need to give your life over to Jesus Christ. He'll take all your hurts away. Now you can lash out at me.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Keith Allen Steele Eash Why are you filled with hate and insult your fellow man? I was raised in a religious household and was taught about Martin Luther. You do know what Martin Luther did, right? He exposed the Catholic Church as a fraud with his 95 theses.
As I attended Sunday school it became obvious to how the teachers were lying all in the name "scaring" us into being good Christian children. At a young everyone in the church school knew it was a bunch of crap. As the teachers would tell us biblical stories the students would laugh out loud know how preposterous the stores were. And what was even more absurd was we knew our teachers truly believed all of those stores. All we could think about is how stupid they were to be the gullible.
Young people today feel the same way, but even more so. They look at how Christians are turning out to be white supremacists. And they watch as televangelist take money from good people in the name of God. Then they see that priests and ministers who rape and molest you children aren't punished by God or the church.
Dude get a grip and look at how Christians are treating their fellow man? It's not the way young people want to be treated and it's not the way they want to treat people.
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Lionheart
Why would anyone want to give their life over to someone where there is very little evidence the person ever existed?
Sounds kinda spooky and weird to me, just like those crazy woke people.
🦁❤️
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David Cox
When you don't have a relationship with God and not born again that person will be miserable like the holy spirit gives the understanding. That's why people are like you who turn people against our creator...open your eyes to the truth. God still loves you even though you spit in his face he is waiting.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
There are over 7 billion people on this planet do not have a relationship with God, not not born again and are defiantly not miserable. Kids today look at God and Christian religion as being dope/stupid. What they see in the news is unhappy born again Christian who want to control women’s lives, tried to over throw the government, try to enact laws which force Christian values on everyone taking away personal freedom, and are not nice or kind to people who are LBGT+ or are intersex.
If you were young, would you want anything to do with an organization like that? Today’s young people sure don’t.
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Lionheart
Do you have any demonstrable evidence to prove the god you worship is real, and exists?
Do you also have a relationship with other unproven things, such as fairies, elves etc? Just asking for a pagan friend of mine that believes they exist…..also with no demonstrable evidence, like all the other gods many people believe in.
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler, don't blame God or the failure of church leaders.
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John P Maher
WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU ACKNOWLRDGE ? Mr. Eash ?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
It doesn't matter what I acknowledge. All that matters is I don't acknowledge those terms I stated. A person can believe in any religion, but any religion that attacks the Constitutional Republic we established is an enemy. Only Islam is if they demand Sharia law.
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John Ekers
Interesting to know what is difference between sharia law and evangelical Christian law?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Omg.Every christian doesn't go around chopping peoples heads off.
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Michael Andrew Smith
I am so very thankful that you are fast asleep, except for the snoring, lol.
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Reverend Kurt
Maybe it is good to teach the kids to trust something , even a nonsensical illusion, for no one trusts America. Even a large number of Americans!
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Dan Anderson
The first thought entering my brain is, "Which deity are you talking about?" If it is anything other than the Abrahamic deity, then only three religions are taken into consideration: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. That kicks up the ire of many who are theologically ignorant, claiming that Islam has a god named "Allah" which makes it a "false god".
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Robert Edward Szekely
"Al-lah" is Arabic for "The God". It is the God of Abraham (Judaism), also known as "God the Father" to Christians.
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Rev Nolan
Allah is the honorific of ilah. Jews and Christians in Arabic speaking countries and communities call God Allah too. It’s Arabic not just Islam.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
What about Ra?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I would agree the Islamic God is a false God but the word in Arabic is God. The Christian Arabs use the same word simply as God.
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Krystina S.
If you believe in the Christian God or the Jewish God, you ALSO believe in the Muslim God. It is THE SAME GOD. There are other religions that are monotheistic, but may believe in- for example- THE EARTH GODDESS. That may or may not be different. We are so minuscule and self-important and hubristic. The important thing is that religion(s) has(ve) NO PLACE in public/government life.
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David Cox
You are greatly deceived
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
You have no theological training or understanding of Scripture. Muslims worship the god of Abraham. The first God Abram worshiped. A pagan God who was the moon God. He had alittle statue he carried around with him. This is why they don't call it the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. It is a pagan God who is just referred to as Allah. The Jewish God is known as a personal God and revealed his name to them: YHWH pronounced as Yahweh. To Muslims Allah is not a personal God because he's the damn fricken moon. So we of Judeo-Christian heritage do not worship the same God. Our values are different from them. And as someone who lost classmates at the Twin Towers on 911 don't go fricken claiming we worship the same god. That's an insult. And religion has every right to be in public life. One lives by its values and morals if you take it seriously and the true believer as a public servant of as a mere citizen has every damn right to call people out on the carpet when they see politicians or anyone selling our country down the river. Dumb bunny. Get some theology.
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash, you're name calling. That's not cool.
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Pastor George Day
Krystina S., those who align with Keith Allen Steele Eash's statements are mere Islamophobes. Period.
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Sarita Madala
Hi I can stand at school with in God we trust
Rev Sarita madala
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Maybe you can stand with it, but today’s young people cannot. They are seeing how fanatical Christians have divided our political system, take rights away women, and have what they consider are crazy dope (stupid) beliefs.
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David Cox
Just because people say they are Christians don't make them Christians. You can tell when you see a real Christians. There a difference between having a life changing experience and having religion. Having a relationship being born again.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@David Cox - How do you spot a real Christian? To me they are look alike.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
No Your WOKE AGENDA has divided our country. Wanting to kill the unborn even after they are born. Like the stupid state congressmen who believed a family could kill their own child even up to the age of 18. Thank God that idea got thrown out by a fellow Democrat. Taking life is wrong. If that life inside of you is less then your rights as a woman you should have taken responsibility before you had sex. If rape or incest it was God's choice to allow the conception.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Keith Allen Steele Eash In saying "If rape or incest it was God's choice to allow the conception." you have total disregard for the life of the women. After she is rapped, you want to continue punishing her and not the man.
If conception is when life starts why can't that life be claimed as a deduction on tot he IRS? And if it is a life as you claim, why can't women drive in carpool lanes without getting a ticket?
It's young people today who want NOTHING to do with the Christian religion because of statement's like yours. "If that life inside of you is less then your rights as a woman you should have taken responsibility before you had sex." and "If rape or incest it was God's choice to allow the conception."
If you had a 13 - 14 year old daughter or granddaughter who was brutally rapped and became pregnant would you force her to have the child because it was God's choice?
Young people today look at statements like yours as being dope (stupid), statistic and just mean. Young kids today just can't grasp how a loving farther/grandfather could force their own child/grandchild have a child. Would you help raise that child?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Blah blah blah. Here we go bringing up rape and incest. God brings all life into conception, regardless of crimes of rape or incest. The child conceived didn't ask for it. You really don't know of the Scriptures where famous biblical characters were conceived in rape or incest. A man who raped was responsible for his actions. Firstly, check the statistics. They are very low in terms of life conceived. Do some research and don't argue with me again. You make yourself out to be a complete fool.
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Harold B. Baldauf
When your wife or daughter gets raped, may you not be a hypocrite (in addition to the hateful, seething moron you have proven to be in your preceeding screed) and stand with them as they deliver your new stepchild or grandchild.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Harold B. Baldauf Well stated. It's posts like what @Keith Allen Steele Eash has made which young and old people see that make them want to have nothing to do with the Christian religion.
I'm sure if his 14 year old daughter or granddaughter was raped, became pregnant @Keith Allen Steele Eash would throw her and her child, his own flesh and blood out on to the street for having sex and being a sinner. This is how people are viewing Christians today. They are viewed as just evil people with no heart or compassion for anyone including members of their own family.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I am sure that I would not disown the child if a rape or incest occurred. I believe all life is created and conceived by the love of God regardless how it comes about. I have no right to say otherwise. I think you numbnuts need to read the old testament more clearly. The destruction of any life is the death of God or namely an attack upon life itself regardless. That's how deeply I respect and love God. People need to take responsibility period.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Keith Allen Steele Eash Your are quite the contradiction. You say, "the destruction of any life is the death of God or namely an attack upon life itself regardless." Yet God kills 80% of the lives God creates. Ask your gynecologist and they will tell you 80% of the human lives/fertilized eggs God creates, God kills.
Why do you say people don't take responsibility? They do which is why the don't need the Christians telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies? Women ARE being responsible, it's the Christians who are not allowing them to be.
You do know the Old Testament is filled with incorrect information as has been proven by the Belgian Catholic priest, theoretical physicist, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain, Georges Lemaître. Turns out if Lemaître was wrong, computers would not work. You are obviously using a computer which means you are proving the Bible/Old Testament/Word of God IS wrong.
Based on your posts I don't think you would be a good Christian and be happy or take pleasure in raising a child that may have resulted from your wife, daughter or granddaughter who was rapped. I think you would have an everlasting internal hatred for the child and the women, (your wife, daughter or granddaughter) who bear the child. I also think you would blame your wife/daughter/granddaughter for getting rapped and pregnant.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I'm not arguing with you anymore. I don't know what religion or God has done to you and hurt you but you are such a bigot it makes my stomach turn.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Keith Allen Steele Eash Why do you say I was arguing with you when we were having a dialog and an exchange of ideas.... Leave it to a Christian to call it an argument.
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash, he seems angry. I think he had a bad experience at church. Let's pray for his healing.
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Rev Nolan
The First Amendment is used to support the church and state separation claim, but it says, “Congress shall make no laws…” etc. Doesn’t that mean then that it’s up to the state to establish a State religion if State government officials decide to? It doesn’t say, “No laws shall be made with respect for religion…” Congress shall not but governors can?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
No. Out of curiosity did you attend school in the US? Didn't you have to take government classes where you learned about the constitution, our way of government and the history of the US?
Just to refresh your memory if you did...
Article VI, Paragraph 2 of the U.S. Constitution is commonly referred to as the Supremacy Clause. It establishes that the federal constitution, and federal laws take precedence over state laws, and even state constitutions.
It prohibits states from interfering with the federal government's exercise of its constitutional powers, and from assuming any functions that are exclusively entrusted to the federal government. It does not, however, allow the federal government to review or veto state laws before they take effect.
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Rev Nolan
Douglas Robert Spindler: Correct, when Congress does SOMETHING the states can’t override, but when Congress does NOTHING on a subject - i.e.: “Congress shall NOT…” make a law regarding something… - is my question.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Rev Nolan Now I get what you are asking. Yes local government and states can and do pass laws when there is not federal laws stating otherwise or they can further restrict existing federal laws. While The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." While our state could not pass a law preventing citizens from owning Arms, we did outlaw the possession of the bullets used in those arms. So while you can onw the gun in our state, you can not own the bullets.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
The Federal Constitution takes precedence but not the laws. It is a crime to have Marijuana in possession of, but the states have a right to consider it legal. Only if arrested by a federal law enforcement officer, namely an officer of the DEA would the Federal law take affect. It is a law that all citizens can vote obtaining the age of 18, but some states say a citizen can vote at 17 if their birthday falls a few months before Election Day. And the list goes on.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
And then there is what politicians and people do.
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David Buck
"In God We Trust" is not Christian evangelism. First, as noted, it is the national slogan. Second, God is not a purely Christian concept. God existed before Jesus Christ - otherwise how could we have an 'Old Testament'? The Jews have a God, so do the Muslims (though they call Him by another name). Some people just HAVE to have something they can complain about. Ignore them.
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Keith Graham Ainsworth
David, the Muslim god is also called God, Allah simply means The God
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Ronaldo
"In God We Trust" are simple words, and do not have to imply any meaning outside of the actual statement. It does not say which god, so it could be any number of Hindu gods, Norse gods, or Indigenous People's gods, worshipped here long before White man showed up. There are tens of thousands of gods from which to choose, so how is it that when people hear the phrase, they automatically assume it means the Judeo/Christian God? That seems a bit presumptuous.
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Rev. B
So I automatically trust your imaginary friend, then? No thanks, I trust in things that exist.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. B, God does exist.
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Rev. B
Pastor George, thank you for your response. I am looking forward to seeing your evidence. In the entire history of mankind, no one else has ever been able to produce actual evidence that any deity exists. You can only imagine how pleased I am that YOU are the ONE person able to produce proof. Now please don't keep us waiting.
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Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
I've recently been wrestling with the whole judgement concept. So, let's say, for the sake of argument, that there is a Day of Judgement where God determines whether one is worthy of paradise or perdition. If we are beings of free will, and therefore responsible for our own actions, then we should be made to answer for making good or bad choices. However, in our society today, we don't punish those who are insane and commit crimes. Why is that? Because society recognizes that a person who's brain is wired badly is not responsible for their actions. Similarly, when one commits a crime against society and is determined to understand right from wrong, they are incarcerated to protect society while they are rehabilitated to correct their "minor" wiring issue. At least, that's the way it's supposed to work. So, how is it any different on the Day of Judgement? Is the madman who murders a hundred people sent to hell, just because he was born with a head full of bad neurons? Wasn't his fault; that was his nature. By that same token, should a person who could not bring themselves to fully immerse themselves in the dogma of religion to be punished by an eternity in hell? Maybe hell is some kind of rehabilitation facility, where the evil in a person's soul is burned off. Who knows.
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Rev. B
I visualize watching xtians being sentenced to hell for having a cheeseburger or shellfish. "But lord, I didn't think I had to follow that rule!"
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi We do know in some cases what can rewire the brain. We know for certain Lead, Mercury and Arsenic cause people to become violent. Unfortunately for 60 years we added lead to gasoline and we are still suffering from the effects today. People today are not as intelligent as they were in the past due to lead poising in our environment. And we know lead causes people to become violent and commit violent crimes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA&t=12s&ab_channel=Veritasium
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Omg. You believe everything you read?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Keith Allen Steele Eash No I don't believe everything I read especially after having read the Bible. Talk about a book that's filled with contradictions, and a supremist misogynic God that can quite seem to remember the order of creation in Genesis. Seriously, you would think someone who is so powerful would remember the order of creation and not screw it up for days, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. And we know God got it wrong because the the Belgium Priest who proved God got it wrong. The lies told in the Bible and by Christians is why I'm not a Christian anymore and help others in their journey to lose their faith in Christianity and believe in science. I apply critical thinking skills, rational thinking, evidence and logic to everything I read. Something you might want to try, you won't be so bitter towards other people.
No I know
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler, critical for sure. Logic...? Not sure. We need to check your meds, to make sure it's the right one. This is based on evidence! LOL
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash, when they stop believing in God, they start believing in all kinds of nonsense!
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Rev. B
When people are born, they know nothing of your xtian silliness. So I pose that when they start believing in god they are believing in all kinds of nonsense. Like that bible thing. How anyone falls for that is gullibility beyond my understanding. "Hey, I just dug up this book. Let's believe everything in it with unquestioning naivete."
Still waiting on that evidence, Pastor George.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. B, my evidence is you! For someone who doesn't believe in God, you seem to be spending pretty much of your time fighting him. I don't fight something that doesn't exist. Bingo, my friend!
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Rev. B
Sorry you do not understand my meaning. I am not fighting "god", how could one when he is a story book character? I am fighting religious ignorance, my friend, and that is never a waste of time.
Don't think I haven't noticed that you tried to change the subject. Still waiting on that evidence, Pastor George
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Pastor George Day
Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi, yours is a very healthy question. Thank you for taking the time to express it so elaborately. You touch at the very core of the Christian message, aka kerygma. Evidence proves that Jesus rose from the dead, because all the apostles (and there were many, not just 12) were willing to die for this belief. They saw Jesus risen after they'd seen him die on the cross, with blood and water gushing forth from his pierced side. Scientifically, that is evidence of dearth. Jesus took upon himself the punishment of our sins because by heritage from the first man (Adam) we men were 'wired' to commit crimes. We all are, to some minor or major extent - who has never even once told a lie or cheated their fellow? Jesus' resurrection points to this rehabilitation you point out to. Peter in the New Testament tells us that the gospel of 'rehabilitation' was also preached to the dead. I am happy to tell you more. Contact me here https://theologyofthebody.webador.co.uk/contact-us
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Rev. B
"Evidence proves that Jesus rose from the dead"
Nope. Full stop. Saying something doesn't make it true. Please let the rest of us see this "evidence" Stop holding it all to yourself. No one else has been able to produce evidence, by all means show the rest of us what you and no other human alive has seen.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. B, read Lee Strobel. But you may be pretty dumb to understand his elaborate evidence.
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Rev. B
I took a look at some of it, George, and did you realize there is just as much if not more literature dedicated to how he is full of... nonsense. Read up on that, George. THEY actually use... now I know you xtians hate the word but... SCIENCE!
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Rev. Donut
If it is real and not a troll The sign should be in English.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Rev. Gordon 250 Why in English?
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Angela Marie Sandner
In our own unique beliefs we still stand together?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
And that's where the danger lies. If everyone shares the same beliefs who is going to share the truth when the beliefs are wrong?
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Thomas A. Follis
This is still America and Chaz Stevens is an idiot.
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Dawn Miller
Seriously? A little girl thrown out if a christian school fir having gay parents? I hope they sue the piss out if them and win. Arent christians supposed to be loving people? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Politics in school? Hell no!! Banned the national anthem for one nation under god, but lets put up in god we trust signs? Hypocrites. Hiw bout teaching our kids cursive instead? That theyll need later in life
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Michael Andrew Smith
The motto "In God We Trust" was developed to put on all United State coinage and currency while "e pluribus unum" was used on the first Great Seal of the United States.
The Latin phrase, best translated as "Out of many, one" does signify the UNITED States of America, our official name of the nation. The other phrase is from a time when christianity, many thought, needed to be plastered on anything that was known worldwide as being from the United States, our money. Congress passed the Act, replacing the Latin phrase in the 1950s when other religions were at best tolerated and most Americans thought to have other beliefs were un-American.
Myself, either, both or neither are fine. Children can be taught that for now, they are the mottos America has but the one that has a religious overtone doesn't mean those without that belief are any less welcomed in America.
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Pastor George Day
No, Michael Andrew Smith. But America, like Europe, should be based on its traditional Judeo-Christian identity. If we go to Muslim countries, Christians are not treated the same way we treat Islam and other religions here. I think the West, in this respect, is welcoming enough.
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Cheryl Anne Hamm
Under God and In God we Trust were signed in to law in the mid 1950's by Dwight Eisenhower. Nearly 200 years after the Americans won the right to self govern. The whole idea of this being a Christian nation is solely a Christian initiative with no regards or respect for different faiths.
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Caleb McKean
During the founding of this nation when the federal government killed Thomas McKean 1776-1831 and Thomas McKean 1799-1831 for their gold bank they wrote a probate record that was published in 2015 by Ancestry in Provo Utah saying I own all land, building, property and people with immunity of whatsoever nature forever to the United States with appurtenances. It was written in the 1739-1991 New Jersey Wills and Probate Records for Thomas McKean 1831. Therefore, I think it should say In McKean We Trust. SInce they are still borrowing the 30 year fixed term loans from 1831 and 1861 and owe me 40 trillion and skyrocketing here in America. Of course all my spoils are in heaven.
Time to change the national motto back to "E Plurbus Unum". The irony though....as we are more divided than ever.
All the motto means is one out of many. Doesn't say a thing about being united.
Latin for "out of many, one"
"From Many One" would be a better translation. In either case what is meant is a single entity (the Republic) is formed from many entities (the Colonies, now States).
Probably just 'splitting hairs' but I've always taken it to mean, "out of many individuals, one union."