When it comes to protecting children from mature content, where should we draw the line?
In the wake of nationwide attempts by faith groups, school boards, and concerned parents to get books with LGBTQ and adult themes removed from libraries, one Florida man is making the case for adding another well-known title to this "banned books" list: the Holy Bible.
Last month, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law a bill that bans “pornographic” books from school classrooms and curriculums. Atheist activist Chaz Stevens says the new policy should include the Bible.
In a letter sent to 63 school boards, Stevens points to numerous examples of violence, sexual content, and racism that can be found in the Bible.
"Is this the message we want to teach our children? If you rape a woman, the father has to give you 50 silver pieces,” Stevens said. “As the Bible casually references (i.e. Matthew 15:19) such topics as murder, adultery, sexual immorality, and fornication ... Do we really want to teach our youth about drunken orgies?"
Stevens appears to be arguing that it's hypocritical to call LGBTQ books "pornographic and immoral" and remove them from library shelves, while fully endorsing a book full of Bronze Age morality.
Pointing to Psalm 137:9, he says “if you want to teach morality and ethics, do you really want to turn to a book that wants you to dash babies against rocks?"
Bye Bye Bible?
Even Chaz Stevens knows it’s a long shot, but he’s hopeful school districts will “apply their own standards” to Christianity’s holy text and ban it from Florida libraries.
“The government can’t pick and choose religion, but can they choose which books they review for banning and which ones they don’t?” he pondered.
This isn’t Stevens’ first foray into high profile activism, either. In 2015, he convinced several Florida municipalities to drop opening prayers at city commission meetings, after petitioning them to let him lead them… in the name of Satan.
Rather than let their opening prayers be an invocation to Lucifer, most of them dropped the opening prayer altogether. “The Satanic stare withered them down,” Stevens says.
He's hoping for a similar outcome with the book ban this time around.
Policing the Library
This movement to restrict access to books has picked up steam in recent months, with proponents arguing that children shouldn't be exposed to the mature content found on the pages of certain titles.
What constitutes offensive or mature content is a subject of debate, but critics say such policies are being used to target LGBTQ-focused content in particular.
In late 2021, a Virginia school board voted unanimously to remove all “sexually explicit” books from school library shelves, a list that included many titles with LGBTQ themes.
Two school board members wanted to take things a step further and literally burn the offending books – apparently not recognizing that Fahrenheit 451 is a cautionary tale, not a guidebook.
“I guess we live in a world now that our public schools would rather have kids read about gay pornography than Christ," said one member at the time.
In the end, no books were burned.
However, as this latest incident shows, the heated debate over which books belong in libraries – and which should be locked away to save the children – isn't going away anytime soon.
What do you think? Are book bans a good idea? If we're banning books with offensive content, does the Bible belong on that list?
89 comments
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Amber M. Castleman
The Bible should never be banned there are different Religions in the world and the Country how can people use them for research references when they study to become Nuns, Brothers, Deacons, Priests, and Religious Doctors like myself Bibles should always stay on the shelves for the public to use.
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David Bartlett
Nobody is preventing your from accessing them. All public libraries will continue to have a religion section that includes all major and many minor religious works. Plus, go on the internet and google "free bible" and you will likely find many people will be delighted to mail one to you. This is about banning bibles from public school libraries. I would only be in favor of keeping them in a public school library if that library also kept all other major religious books on their shelves and the other religions got equal time. Otherwise they and other religious writings have no place in a public school. The difference between a public school library and a public library is that nobody is forcing you to enter a public library but students are required to attend school.
I suggest if you wish to become a clergy then contact your denomination's leadership and request copies of religious writings for your education and if they won't give you free access then maybe that's not a valid religion.
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Andrew E Allord
Other than what became the works of the 3rd council of Cathage (A.D. 397) the world would have no claimed "canon" Bible. This was man deciding canon, not God. Scrolls where then labeled "books". Historically scrolls were used to document events, events were used to find time. Today we use time to find events. Scrolls were written as documentation, not as books to be sold for profit. Events were passed through stories of elders, documented at the earliest point they could be. Ergo, dates of the scrolls used for the bible were well past many events.
My point in the above is simple. Today I don't read a source on a subject and take it for definitive. I research their sources, other sources, compile and then conclude for myself what it means/meant. Biblical research shouldn't write off Cayce, things he described were biblical at times. Cayce isn't definitive, however his visions add interesting questionable context that in my opinion shouldn't be ignored.
Books are intended to open the mind, not to be used a definitive sources of fact.
No book should be banned. It is up to the reader to choose what they want to read about. As for schools, it is up to a community to decide education, not government or any individual. Books not found in a public school, should be available at the public library.
We have taken the simple throughout time and made it complex by adding individual opinion and context. It should be the reader deciding that.
As for the Bible, that is why we call it "faith", because not everything can be proven.
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William Prusaitis 3rd
Are kids need the Bible God is the truth!! We need the word. Are kids need the word!!!!!
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Lionheart
I think you are meaning to say "Our kids....." not "Are kids" William.I can see you are linguistically challenged somewhat regarding the English language, and that's ok.
Now....as to your claim that the "Bible God is the truth" you just might find that you are just a little bit challenged in this regard as well in your love for him. For instance: the Bible God, as you call it, murdered Bathsheba's newborn, killed all the firstborn sons of Egypt, sent bears to murder little children, and commanded Joshua to kill all the children in Jericho. This is not to mention the babies, children, and pregnant mothers that would have drowned in the genocidal flood. If you want to worship such a murderous genocidal thug, go ahead and do so, but suggesting children need "the word" you would be well informed to teach them about this bully first, then see if they want to worship him.
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Richard Darwin Richards
Public schools kicked God put a long time ago sadly.
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Rev Ned
^But...The story of the most complete genocide ever (Noah etc.) makes such a great children's story!^
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Timothy Lee Stewart
Good morning,
As I am wrestling with the disturbing rhetoric of the topic of burning/banning books to keep young minds free of the distasteful and inevitable truths of humanity, I failed to understand that this was thrown into the mix and it was brushed off as nothing more than a whisper in the wind.
Carl Bernard Elfstrom May 01, 2022 at 03:19 pm (0 votes) I'm a ULC God, and that lowly christian God doesn't dare mess with me, Condron!
Universal Life Church My understanding is All inclusive. All teachings, All the Same. Not For (completely) Not against (completely) but a collective of understanding. I don't believe anything should be banned/burned. I do believe that there is a time and a place in a young human mind of what it needs to learn. You don't start off with calculus in elementary school to learn how to do addition and subtraction in highschool. If you are going to sensor what a child is exposed to at a young age then it should be across the board. Their church of choice will instruct them. If not, they can seek out information better now then I ever had when I was younger. As a matter of fact, I believe children are over exposed to the atrocities humans have committed throughout history. It doesn't allow them to be children. They start their emotional stress way to early and never get a chance to just be a child.
Just a thought, Minister. T Stewart
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Raymond L Born Jr
I am actually for burning bibles
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Raymond L Born Jr
I agree, do away with the bible. Its full of lies
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Paul Seldes
The argument the right makes cuts both ways. You may not want your child exposed to sexually explicit or violent literature but conversely, do you want your child to decide they must live according to biblical law as stated in Leviticus or Deuteronomy?
"You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. "
you will not be popular in the neighborhood if you start advocating for putting people to death for working on the sabbath.
One big difference is that many of the banned books reflect some everyday reality. Some kids will have 2 mommies (or 2 daddies). Some kids will see domestic violence. This is real life....today.
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Cordelia Lewis
This is wrong ,this man does not know God ,we need pray and reading the Bible in school morning ,noon,and evening when the children are leaving for their protection, Christian should band together and stand for their rights what the heavenly Father give to them we are the head of everything not the tail what we says stand,we should take back all rights God has given to us .
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Michael Barton
A library should have what's necessary for the community, based on standards in that local community. You could have State-based libraries that take into consideration things from the State. But overall, things should be localized.
If a book is just about grooming kids, then it shouldn't have a place in the library, unless it's written by someone in the local community. If that's the case, we should have the technology to age-restrict the books.
So all books with bad things in it should be digital and restricted by age. Books that are okay for everyone could have a hard-copy.
We should also strive to have fewer hard copies, and more digital copies, and/or subscriptions like O'reilly's bookshelf.
Libraries need to evolve to the point that they're research centers. Why can't a library have more and better books than the local college?
You're a kid for a small period of time, but an adult for the rest of your life. Libraries should be useful for all.
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Dr. Jerry Moyes
No book should ever be banned. Some material needs age based restrictions, as a certain degree of maturity and/or education is required to understand the work and view it in the correct light. The Christian Holy Bible belongs there, if filed in the correct section, Theology. Any religious work should be treated as faith based teachings, not history, and neither fiction, nor non-fiction.
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Fernand Luc Bergeron
Me again ! I am a french Canadian from Quebec I always saw you money stamped with "IN GOD WE TRUST", You national theme is "THE HOME OF THE BRAVE AND THE LAND OF THE FREE" no? If in God the USA trusts, then which God is it ? And what guidance is that God given ? Maybe you just live in the wrong place or need therapy for your anger issues. Benn there, done that. I'm better now. I see the big picture. The reality of the world. Too many people being produced. We are overpopulated which causes too much pollution so being fruitful and become numerous is the cause to the planet's cancer = pollution. See, the bible is useful after all ! You don't have to ban a book, people have to make their own choices, sorry, that's freedom my friend. Plain and simple. I'd be glad to have a face-to-face conversation with you if are willing to. I use ZOOM
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John P Maher
SO MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING, TEACH YOUR CHILDREN WELL FROM YOUR HEART and MIND, NOT WHAT WAS BEATEN INTO YOU THRU FEAR, ANGER, LIES, ALL BOOKS ARE GOOD it IS YOU and YOU ALONE THAT SHOULD DECIDE and NOT HAVE IT DECIDED FOR YOU, BY ANYONE, THATS CALLED FREE THINKING, NOT THINKKKING !
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Fernand Luc Bergeron
If you really want to get rid of the bible then give ALL your money back ! Doesn't it say "IN GOD WE TRUST" ? GOD inspired the bible (Luke 24:27 and 2 Timothy 3:16). Second, Jesus was well educated religiously, often quoted the bible and reasoned with the teachers in the temple for 3 days at the age of 12 (Luke 2:42-47) If you think that you are better than God and country, please seek professional help NOW ! America was founded on religious freedom buddy, I hear Russia and North Korea could be a place for you to go live.
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Lionheart
How can you say a god inspired the Bible, Fernand, when there is still no demonstrable evidence any of the worlds gods are real, even yours.
No one knows for sure what Jesus ever said because the historians that wrote about him were not born. Contemporary historians that could have possibly known about him, never did. Weird.....right?🤷🏼
You'll be saying next that his mom was a virgin, and she became pregnant from a deity.🤭 I had to mention that, Fernand, because there are some people who actually believe that based on everything they read. I know that's hard to believe, but if you ever get to any of the worlds churches, even of other faith's, you will find all sorts of weird belief's all based on what they have read, or tales that have been handed down. Weird.....right?
Some of them actually talk to a wall, or floor, or ceiling, all thinking they are talking to their god, and wait for it......they think their god is listening. It's amazing how indoctrination works isn't it? 🤷🏼
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Robin Anne Hannon
Open the gates to censorship of any sort, and this is the result. You can't ban books without opening a flood of censorship.
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Rev. John Bolen
I don't believe banning any book from library's is beneficial to anyone . Books not only educate , but bring about conversations . Reading a book can help someone understand the subject . It is possible to understand something without believing in it or to expand your knowledge of something you do believe
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Alexander Arends
That the Bible is pornographic is subject to interpretation. The dictionary defines pornography as "the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement". I don't believe that anything in the Bible is meant to cause sexual excitement although a word such as "breast" could cause snickers as portions of the Bible were read at the dinner table.
There will never be any agreement on what books should or should not be acceptable in school libraries. I don't believe that books or audio-visual material that may be available at public libraries should also be available in school libraries. There is such a thing as age appropriateness, However having a government institution determine what is or isn't appropriate, or being able to set penalties for non-compliance is not a solution.
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John Condron
Surely, Alexander, the word "breast" is in no way pornographic, but an argument can be made for other passages, such as Ezekiel 23:20, in which Oholibah "lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."
I often wonder if people who defend the bible so strenuously ever actually read the whole thing. I did, as well as the Quran, the Book of Mormon, and other "holy books." That is how I concluded they are all poorly written and edited works of fiction (except the Quran, which is actually very poetic in the original language).
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John P Maher
THE BIBLE or ANY BOOK RELIGIOUS or OTHERWISE is THE CHOICE of the READER, TO READ or NOT to READ, THAT is A SELF INDULGENT QUESTION, NO ONE or GOVT. HAS THE RIGHT to BAN BOOKS !
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John Condron
...and yet, they do.
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Chris
I don't believe any book should be banned. Doing so limits the ability to learn and consider information. However, if these people are wanting to ban "pornographic" books, the bible certainly should be included in that list.
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Roy C. Wilson
Here are only a few examples of the so called "Holy God Given Laws in the Bible"(This book is insane):
1) EXO 15:3 -JEHOVA IS A MAN OF WAR. 2) EXO 21:2,7 -ENSLAVE YOUR DAUGHTER 3)EXO 21: 7-11(UNFAIR RULES FOR FEMALE SERVANTS, MAY BE SEX SLAVES) 4) EXO 21:20-21 -ENSLAVE PEOPLE AND BEAT THEM FOR DAYS. 5) EXO 22:29 - KILL YOUR FIRST BORN FOR THE BLOOD THIRSTY JEHOVA GOD. 6) EXO 31:15 -KILL ANYONE WHO WORKS ON A SATURDAY. 7) EXO 32:27 -KILL EVERY MAN, HIS BROTHER, COMPANION, NEIGHBOR. 😎 LEV 25:45-46 -ENSLAVE CHILDREN 9) LEV 20:09 - KILL YOUR CHILDREN IF THEY DISRESPECT YOU. 10) LEV 20:10 -KILL BY STONING ALL ADULTERERS. (EVEN PEOPLE WHO DIVORCE AND REMARRY) 11) LEV 21:18-21 - KILL YOUR CHILDREN IF THEY ARE STUBBORN 12) NUM 5:11 - KILL YOUR WIFE IF YOU SUSPECT SHE IS CHEATING ON YOU. 13) NUM 15:36 -KILL HIM, STONE HIM WITH STONES AS THE LORD COMMANDED. 14) NUM 25:7 -CUT NON-BELIEVERS HEADS OFF AND HANG THEM UP BEFORE THE LORD AGAINST THE SUN. 15) NUM 25: 1-6 -KILL ANYONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN JEHOVA GOD AND HIS LAWS. 16) NUM 25:8,9 - KILL 25,000 MEN AND WOMEN BY PUTTING THE SWORD THOURGH THEIR GENITALS. 17) NUM 31:1,2 - KILL ALL NON ISRAELITE. 18) NUM.31:16 - 35 (VIRGINS LISTED AS WAR BOOTY) 19) DEUTERONOMY 21:11-14 (RAPE MANUAL) 20) DEU 21:18-23 -KILL YOUR CHILDREN IF THEY ARE GLUTTONS OR DRUNKS 21) DEU 22:21 -KILL YOUR OWN DAUGHTERS IF THEY ARE NOT VIRGINS BEFORE MARRIAGE. 22) DEU 22:28-29-ANOTHER INTERESTING LAW OF THIS GOD SAYS WOMEN MUST MARRY THEIR RAPIST. 23) JUDGES 11: 30-39 -KILL BY BURNING THE CHILDREN 24) JUD 5:30 -UTTERLY DESTROY EVERY MALE, AND EVERY WOMAN THAT HATH LAIN BY MAN. 25) I SAMUEL 15:2,3,7,8 -KILL, SLAY BOTH MAN AND WOMAN, INFANT AND SUCKLING 26) II SAM 21:8-14 -KILL BY HANGING THE CHILDREN BEFORE THE LORD. 27) PSALM 1:8-9 -ASK JEHOVAH AND HE SHALL GIVE THEE THE HEATHEN FOR THINE INHERITANCE AND THE UTTERMOST PARTS OF THE EARTH FOR THY POSSESSION. THOU SHALT BREAK THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON;THOU SHALT DASH THEM IN PIECES LIKE A POTTER'S VESSEL. 28) PSALM 137:9-" HAPPY SHALL HE BE, THAT TAKETH AND DASHETH THY LITTLE CHILDREN AGAINST THE STONES" 29) ISAIAH 45:7 -JEHOVA GOD CREATES EVIL. 30) JEREMIAH 18:11 -JEHOVA FRAMES EVIL 31) HOSEA 13:16 -KILL PREGNANT WOMEN BY RIPPING THEIR STOMACHS OPEN AND DASHING THEIR INFANTS TO PIECES 32) JOEL 3:8 -BUY AND SELL CHILDREN 33) MAL 2:3 -SPREAD DUNG UPON THE FACES OF THE PREISTS WHO DONT SACRIFICE PROPERLY FOR THIS BLOOD THIRSTY GOD. 34) LUKE 12:47-48 - BEAT YOUR SLAVES. 35) MATTHEW 10:34 -THINK NOT THAT JESUS CAME TO SEND PEACE ON EARTH; HE CAME NOT TO SEND PEACE, BUT A SWORD. 36) JOHN 5:31 -"IF I BEAR WITNESS OF MYSELF, MY WITNESS IS NOT TRUE
*** Please note the Jews (Torah) and Islam (Koran) also have these laws....
This proves that The Bible, Torah and Koran are diabolic books.
Please learn from your own heart and mind which God gave you in order to keep you from believing false doctrines.
Please read these books for yourself and see that they are written by false prophets and that we must speak out against these inhumane, diabolic, ways of thinking.
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Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls
The Bible is needed more now than anytime in history.Hypocrites beware?
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Lionheart
Nah, I don’t think so. It’s way out of date, and is definitely not a good read for children. Harry Potter is a far better book of fiction, and children not only love it, they understand it. Plus…..children won’t become neurotic thinking they’ll go to a burning Hell for ever if they don’t think Harry Potter is real.
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Fernand Luc Bergeron
Hell does not exist, read the WHOLE BIBLE before getting to that conclusion. The Catholics invented that by twisting the bible. I've been studying religions since 1975, never got why the Pope wears a hat to pray (1 Corinthians 11:4-16) , priest are called Father (Mattew 23:9-11) and the celibacy thing is down right stupid, God saw that and fixed it (Genesis 2:18) Also, When the Israelites realized that they had too much construction materials to build the arch of the covenant and the temple (tent) (Exodus 36:4-7) Moses had them stop bringing materials. The Catholic church, when it sells a church, does not return the donations nor the money to the community but sends it to the Vatican, as if they need it ! Also, they collect body parts (necromancy) and make them saints, where does that come from ? Another point, Jesus, at the last supper said (Luke 22:19) "Keep doing this in remembrance of of me . Memorials (remembrance day) are once a year not once a week ! Finally, Genesis 2:19, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. No hell even for Adam and Eve. Put that in your pipe and smoke it brother !
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Lionheart
All you are doing is citing texts from a book. How does anything contained in a book make anything factually true, Fernand?
You'll be saying next that because a book, (of obvious tales and myth), that makes references to a god, or a talking snake, or a woman being turned to salt, or even a savior of mankind, makes it all true.....right?
I actually don't smoke a pipe, Fernand, but if I did it, pages of your book would be the first to go up in smoke.
Thank you for your comments though, my brother 🤗
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Even though I don't agree with that comment Carlos, I'm glad you're back!
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Peggyann Johnson-Hansen
Banning the Bible, a spiritual and historical text? Will the Book of Mormon, the Qur’an, The Jefferson Bible, the Tanaka, the Complete Works of Josephus, the Gnostic Books, already banned from the Bible, the Books related to Buddha, the Books of the Hindu's, the individual spiritual teachings of all indigence tribes and cultures or any other text that relates to the spiritual or nonspiritual texts handed down through the generation of historical cultures from the beginning of humanity be banned as well.
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Peggyann Johnson-Hansen
When we start banning anything those individuals who promote the banning be aware they want specific control over society and humanity. Millions of individuals have died throughout history by the banning of books, beliefs, and humanity’s worth. God our Creator and Father allows us choice to walk with him or not. He has not banned us from seeing or experiencing all the positives and negatives of this world. He provides us with free choice. One sided education is just that “one sided” and that does not allow an individual to make a choice based on their comparison of information on all levels of any specific source.
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John Condron
Peggyann, you claim that "God... has not banned us from seeing or experiencing all the positives and negatives of this world."
Umm... if the bible is to be believed, that is EXACTLY what "god" did by banning Adam and Eve from eating of the forbidden fruit. EXACTLY, Peggyann!
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Peggyann Johnson-Hansen
Why would someone suggest that this comment requires deletion? How many of you have studied the various beliefs referred to through primary sources and not from a specific viewpoint? If your theological educational background falls short of understanding the core of this post, then I suggest further study in all these areas with the Holy Spirit as your guide. One does not have to agree with the sources, nevertheless, it still is an eye-opening experience for the heart, mind, and soul through the Holy Spirit.
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Robert James Ruhnke
By their idiotic and limited definition of “pornography” the Bible fits. It’s been used as a cudgel for centuries against those deemed as “other.” It’s not a reliable history text, considering a lot of the information in it is embellished or just wrong. Humanity would be better off without it.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
There's only one bible that should be used by anyone needing a bible -- who considers themselves a loyal periotic American, and is also a Trumpaphile, who knows that evolution was concocted by Darwin, to put an end to Christianity.
And that bible. is the "Thomas Jefferson Bible" and is referenced in the USA's "declaration of Independence."
All other bibles are about as reliable, as Putin and Trump are, about the need to turn the USA into a fascist state.
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Fernand Luc Bergeron
Now that is as valid as the book of mormons
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Lionheart
I think you mean the Book of Mormon, Fernand. Yes, I've read it...as I have read the Bible. Have you read them both? If you believe everything in the Bible as being factually true, please don't read the Book of Mormon, or you'll be doing the same thing as you have done with the Bible.
My suggestion: Please don't believe everything you read as being true. Try and have an open mind, using logic, and reason, mixed with demonstrable evidence, before believing anything.
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Robert Gagnon
Only questionable part of the bible that caught my attention as a kid was the"better to cast thy seed upon the belly of a whore than on the ground". No one wanted to explain that one. Yet some of the content of these more "woke" books are out right vulgar and inappropriate throughout for a young mind with no reliable guidance for curious minds. Lets complicate it further by blurring the issue of gender on one side while preaching ignorance on the extreme opposite. Parents are so irresponsible in guiding their children in a truly responsible way. It may be best that we go back to the mid-range ideas that there is male and female, straight, gay, and bi. Everyone else is an obvious aberration, aberration meaning uncommon, very small percentage of the whole. We must stop pandering to the few that are so unhappy with reality.
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John Condron
So, Robert. Apparently, you missed Ezekiel 23:20, in which Oholibah "lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." That sounds pretty "questionable" to me, Robert.
How about Deuteronomy 25:11-12, which warns that "when men fight with one another, and the wife of the one... puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand?" I found that strangely specific, and caused me to wonder why god was so obsessed with men's balls.
I also remember having unanswered questions about 2 Kings 2:23-25, which describes god sending bears to maul 42 boys for insulting Elisha. I thought that was a bit much. You didn't find that "questionable?" Did you read the bible at all, Robert?
I thought Deuteronomy 23:1 was pretty funny, as I pictured the priests at the entrances to my church checking to see if any of the males had crushed testicles or missing penises. I wondered if they would do a manual or visual inspection. Back then, I didn't realize that many priests were conducting such examinations of young boys privately on their own time.
I didn't even bother to ask questions about Numbers 31:17-18, in which the benevolent god instructed his followers to "kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves." I already knew no reasonable answers would be forthcoming.
As a "stubborn and rebellious" teen, I questioned Deuteronomy 21:18-21, which said that my parents should "lay hold on (me), and bring (me) out unto the elders of (my) city... all the men of (my) city shall (a command word) stone (me) with stones, that (I) die." Personally, I thought the death penalty was a bit much for a stubborn kid.
One more thing. When you say "It may be best that we go back to the mid-range ideas that there is male and female, straight, gay, and bi," you display a high level of ignorance. First, "male and female" are genders, while "straight, gay and bi" are sexual orientations. Not the same thing; only barely related. Do some research, Robert!
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Victoria Ann Branca
John Condron:
Well stated, one thing most important about the bible... It was written solely by mortal man!
Even the teachings of Christ, were written by man through hear say; although what Christ spoke of and his teachings would be more believable, closer to what a higher power would want for us... TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER!
In all the words spoken from Christ, (minimal in comparison) seems completely opposite to the rest of the Bible!
Hmmm... Couriously... why is that???🤔
Not forgetting that it was the leaders of organized religion who had him killed, in the name of God; Christ's messages only consisted of Love, tolerance, compassion, non-judgmental, and all things of goodness! Hmmm.🤔💞
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Minister Wilson
Hello Mr. Condron,
I appreciate your inclusion and I think your intentions are in the right place...
However,
sex is defined as;
"the traits that distinguish between males and females. Sex refers especially to physical and biological traits"
whereas gender;
refers especially to social or cultural traits, although the distinction between the two terms is not regularly observed.
cisgender man or cisgender woman is thus one whose internal gender identity matches, and presents itself in accordance with, the externally determined cultural expectations of the behavior and roles considered appropriate for one’s sex as male or female.
Just keep in mind that sex relates more with biology which we a discovering is more complex than male of female
And gender is a social construction represents the psychological, behavioral, social, and cultural aspects of being male or female (i.e., masculinity or femininity). https://dictionary.apa.org/gender
Think of it this way race is a social construction black, white brown, skin color, however, there is only one [race] of people, human...
Keep up the good work,
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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arawngraalrd
Male and Female are sexes, while Masculine, Feminine and Neuter are genders.
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Minister for the Kingdom
Minister Ralph Krebbs, There has been many accounts of those who speak about the Holy Bible. All true Believers of Christ reference this book as the living Word of the Most High God. To Remove it from anyone; would be serious. I believe in the will of God he gives a choice. And that is to choose either Life or Death. This Belief is a Spiritual journey to know our Creator of all men/women. We also know to know him is to study his word. Discipleship is the beginning of life everlasting. The Holy Bible will always stand! It is nothing that can take it away. Only God has spoken it, will remain until the end of time. Not man. Will man take it upon himself to Challenge The Living God without consequences. King Jeroboam tried to make changes and did not succeed in his efforts to mislead Gods people. Even when Gods own people cried out in (1 Kings 12:4) Take cancel with yourselves thou people of the world. For your action will fall at your feet before the lord and Only God. In short there are many follies that was excerted upon the people who would not take cancel with God. But let us all understand to know the Holy Bible, is to be taught by the Holy Spirit of God and Jesus Christ. Those who wish to know Jesus please do so to life everlasting. And to those who donot then don’t. But I assure you I will love you anyway. Seek to speak to me anytime. As I am commanded and commissioned to lead you. The authority has been given to me from on High to teach you. I Love You All,
Minister for the Kingdom
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John Condron
Hmmm... so, your faith is so weak that you believe that removing the bible from public school libraries will be enough to prevent the Holy Spirit of God and Jesus Christ from spreading the word of god? Do you not believe that your god is all-powerful, Ralph? Could such a small action really stop an all-powerful, all-knowing god, Ralph?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm a ULC God, and that lowly christian God doesn't dare mess with me, Condron!
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Minister Wilson
Minister Krebbs,
Many indeed speak about the Holy Bible, “...true believers of christ...”, Muslims, Jews, and atheists, to name a few...
Yet, to characterize the bible as the living Word of the Most High God is an unproven assertion, especially since sufficient logical evidence could also indicate otherwise. So, if the people want is to ban certain books based on content, why would the “bible” be held to a different standard?
You seem to ignore all the detestable, indefensible parts of the bible to assert this claim. So rules for owning people as property, misogyny, mass murder of innocent women and children with a global flood, blood sacrifices, daughters raping their fathers, and killing people deemed “ unruly” or “sexually immoral” are all okay for young children to learn about?
This form of slothful induction disregards all the horrible things under the guise of belief...However, ignoring these truths shows that you and others who support these bans are not acting in good faith.
In other words, you have not made a valid counterargument against why the literal reading of the bible should be different based on your anecdotal interpretation and bias regarding the book’s importance...
For example, I am sure that most Muslims and Jews would disagree with your claims about the “Holy Spirit of God and Jesus Christ” based entirely on their faith. So, what makes you right and them wrong? They are relying on their beliefs and faith, just like are you?
You can’t all be right...
Some people would claim that the popularity of the bible does not make or cause the bible to be true. Many atheists, for example, have read the bible and have come to a much different conclusion than you have.
Thus, basing your argument on biblical references does not necessarily present a coherent counterargument about why the bible should not also be banned, especially if the underlying principle idea is about objectionable content and offensive sexual topics.
Can you prove any of these quixotic religious claims without using the bible as a reference because I and others are not convinced by poetic words and unsubstantiated claims on which your argument tends to be based?
You know or should know that the bible, like any other book, has objectionable content and offensive subject matter too... So, you are attempting to place some manner of importance on the bible as a special case, but you are not willing to offer this same courtesy to other works of literature that you may disagree with... So, why should anyone do anything different than what you are doing? Why should the objectionable content and offensive sexual topics in the bible be given deference?
If they want to ban books from public libraries to “protect young children” from objectionable content and offensive sexual topics, then the bible should most certainly be prohibited, which is the entire point.
Seeing that you are “...commanded and commissioned to lead and teach [me]...” I expect you to defend the bible's exclusion honestly without using references from [it] to prove [it] because any religious book commits the same circular reasoning problem...
Support your claims with evidence, not just religious zealotry and ideological bias.
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Lionheart
Sorry Ralph, but your words are full of very deep indoctrination, with no verifiable evidence whatsoever of what you’re talking about. Your “claims” are the same as all other religions on earth….none having and demonstrable evidence, but thanks for your comments anyway.
🦁❤️
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Nicholas J Page
So what do we teach people/ congregations comic books? This is all about history about the creation of man kind I'm sure parents won't want their children taught pornographic pictures etc
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Nicholas, everything in history books is dated, totally unlike that christian comic book, and most (if not all) other comic books.
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Nicholas J Page
The Bible never hurt me or anyone.It was written decades ago.Life changes.But to ban it are you serious or insane.The latter me thinks.
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John Condron
"Decades ago." Nicholas? Really? Try thousands of years ago.
As to your statement that "the Bible never hurt (you) or anyone," that is laughable. Do some research. It will be easy to find reports of children who have DIED due to "bible-based parenting." How often has the "eye for an eye" passage been used to justify state-sponsored murder? I could continue, but shouldn't have to.
The point is that the government is already banning books. Mr. Stevens just wants them to be consistent. That is, to apply the same standards to the books they like as to those they do not.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It was written centuries ago, and it has been used by the power hungry to control the lives and free will of people in the most violent of ways. Has been the source of dominionist holy wars, and has been used by the insane whims of demagogues to hurt people just because they don’t fit some arbitrary cookie cutter.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Nicholas, I bet if someone throws a bible at you it's going to hurt.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
I can see the activists point. After all the Bible has phonography, is racists, misogynistic, degrades women, supports slavery, corporeal punishment, rape, mass murder and is political incorrect. Children/teenagers should not be able to find these types of books in a public school library. We need to keep books like this out of the hands and minds of children.
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Peggyann Johnson-Hansen
The many books that make up the Bible are a collection of the behaviors of humanity from the beginning of human existence. The various books offer the reality of behaviors both positive and negative that still exists in our societies worldwide. When one does not understand the reality of these behaviors, they become easy prey for such offenders. The Bible not only examines the reality of the negative sides of humanity it also explains the consequences of such behavior in those lives that continue to walk these paths looking to prey on the unsuspecting, the innocent, the uniformed. "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the middle of wolves; be you therefore wise as a serpent, and harmless as doves." (Luke 10:3)
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Glad to see you are in agreement the Bible contains has too much pornography, mass murder, sexism, slavery, rape and sexual deviancy and killings to be in a school public library. Amen
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Rev Wayne Steven
Like what has been said earlier, where does it all end other words we keep banning books will there be any left we had things like that happen in the past kind of like in Russia probably today Nazi Germany world war II they banned books too where did he get them. I think it's time that we stop while we were still ahead if that's possible I think we've already lost too much in knowledge wisdom it goes back to the old thing good and evil in other words if we banned evil how we know it's good or if it been good how we know it's evil if we all the same wouldn't it? Anyway I think that's something to think about I hope I didn't step on anybody's toes that's not my intention it's just time that we take a good long look at what we are doing to ourselves may God be with you all.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Rev Wayne Steven The book this good man want's to ban is filled with pornography, rape, mass murder, degrades women, is sexist, promotes slavery and is racists. Should a book like that be in a school library? People don't think so.
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Daniel Gray
So mr spindler are books dealing with paganism and history books dealing with cannibalism and racist ideologies like the beliefs of Pol Pot and Communism and Atheism and so on. So the question is where do you stop as every book out there has something in it objectionable to someone else. Keep this up and our libraries will be filled with coloring books.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray I am in complete agreement with you, but where do was a society draw the line when it comes to public school libraries? Are you saying magazines such as Hustler, Playboy, "How to Kill Someone and Get Away With It", "How to Build Pipe Bombs and Start Fires to Kill People", "How to Commit Suicide" should be in our public school libraries?
As a society where do we draw the line? I think you would agree the Bible would be inappropriate due the sex, violence, mass murders, misogyny, slavery, racism and how it's degrades women.
I for one think Thomas Jefferson should be eliminated from public view for being a slave holder and possibly a rapist. I hope everyone agrees and will send me all of their $20 to remove them from circulation.
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Fernand Luc Bergeron
Another money seeking, babbling ignorant person. Look at a quarter (25 cents) doesn't it say "IN GOD WE TRUST" ? Please give ALL your money Back to the government since you don't believe in God who inspired the bible (2 Timothy 3:16 and Luke 24-27). Maybe the bible shouldn't be in the librairies nor books on the big Bang theory since they contradict each other but knowledge is gold and you want your government to produce ignorance, see where that leads you !
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Daniel Gray
Nope, I am saying to put them in age appropriate sections. That way you dont have a kindergartner looking at Hustler or books to teach them about sex and you dont have anyone else looking at books they dont agree with. But for anyone to try and shove books about sex to kids under the 5th grade is a groomer and there is no other word for them. Thats why Disney when they started this stupidity, has lost almost half of their stock earnings from 250 a share down to 151 a share and dropping.
And if you think this would work for the Bible, then the Hindu religion would also have to go as well as the Muslum books as both of them classify women as slaves or sexual tools for the men. I mean good gravy, you can get a divorce in the Muslum world by just putting your husbands things outside. Or the Husband or male family member can rape and murder a female family member just for not walking 3 paces behind them as they consider it a show of disrespect. Or they can marry a female, rape her and then get divorced all in the same day. And the "prophet" of the muslum religion married a child of the age of 6 and then raped her at the age of 9. So be VERY careful at claiming that religion books you may find objectionable are not even more so from another religion. And I also guess you think that Obama should be eliminated from public view as his family were slave owners. So were pelosi's family. And lets not get started on the KKK Grand Dragon that was a Democrat and served in the Congress and Hillary called him her mentor. Or LBJ who called all black people the N word. Or Walt Disney and his brother who were raging bigots and racists. I mean Walt actually fired a hindu because he "looked too black" and check your history books as Walt and his brother also agreed with Hitlers view of the world. So again be very careful on who and what you want banned because of your views as it just might come back and bite you....HARD.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
There is one major problem with your plan.... Public schools do not have separate sections for age appropriate material. And you have another problem, at what age would you allow elementary school age be allowed to read Hustler or the Bible?
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Daniel Gray
Then its about time that we as tax payers REQUIRE them to have this sectioned. Dont you think?
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John P Maher
HERE, HERE, to ALL of YOU, ANY and ALL TEACHINGs AND ORDERS PERSE' SHOULD BE DONE @ HOME and IF YOU HAVE NOT THE TIME THAN DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN.............
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Amy Minckler
Agreed. This all reminds of meme I saw the other day.
"I was groomed to be a heterosexual but I am still as gay as rainbow sprinkled cupcake"
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Amy, that sounds fabulous. Go for the gusto!
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tuppennyblue
He must be so insecure in his own beliefs if he wants to stop people forming their own opinion of the Bible.
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John Condron
Way to COMPLETELY miss the point, "tuppennyblue."
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Jason LaBarre
I understand that public schools have banned prayer in the classroom.
But banning the Bible from library's?! Where do we draw the line when it comes to what we read?
Let's ban everything. How about banning the history books that, depict slavery, civil rights, war, associations. Ect. While we're at it the Harry Potter books can also be banned. Do to a religious belief in witchcraft, wica, occult, paganism.
How about the classics as well? War and peace. Romeo and Juliette. Treasure island, ect.
Let's just ban reading all together. It's not like children can find this information on there phones, or computers anyway!
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
Good libraries should have every type of book. Some people consider reading the Bible is the best way to make Christians, others believe reading the Bible is the best way to make atheists. They may both be right. Let the reader decide.
What is not needed is activists having anything to say whatsoever about what should or should not be in libraries. And what should never happen is school teachers having anything whatsoever to say about what is true or not true. Their job is teaching reading so the student can decide.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And by the same token Shango should not school libraries also include the Satanic Bible, the Wiccn mysteries, the book of Mormon, etc.? Or why not keep all religious books out of schools? A school library doesn't have to be a whole, all-inclusive library, like a public library. As a teenager (starting at 13, in '76) I read a lot of books on Occult topics and psychic phenomenon at the Rosenberg public library, here in Galveston, but couldn't find any books on such subjects at the Ball High School library, and wouldn't expect to.
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
13 would be an excellent age to be initiated into Wicca. If the school library cannot help, great to go to another library. At 13 I graduated from hypnotizing chickens to hypnotizing other children. Maybe that is why school libraries lack such books.
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Alice Anderson
Since the books are in libraries, it is up to someone to choose to read it. It's not like someone is forcing it upon someone else. It's a choice. An individual choice.
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Dr. Jerry Moyes
Well said. A book is speech, and should be protected as such. Read a book, or not, the choice is the individuals, not the gorernment's. The reader decides the validity of what they read.
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Dr. Jerry Moyes
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Dr. Jerry Moyes
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JaZe
The old testament alone is pretty scary already.
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Diana Lee McAnsh
Pretty scary, scary is too weak a word for the horror in the bible.
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Shirley Jean Davis
I don't believe praying to Satan or God belongs in public places because of the separation of church and state.
I also do not believe that the Bible or Christianity should be taught in school because many people are NOT Christians and it would shove Christianity down someone's throat. Jesus NEVER taught that. He would be appalled at much of what is being done today in His name.
Banning and burning books makes us little better than the Nazi's.
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Rev Mark D
Well said
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Daniel Gray
historically and constitutionally false. Seems both you and he know nothing of what you say or you failed history. So which is it?
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Daniel Gray
ok stop with the myth of separation of church and state.The Constitution was ratified in 1787 meaning any changes to it from then on requires a constitutional amendment. In 1802 the myth of this notion was addressed and this was a good 15 years AFTER the ratification of same and nowhere in the library of Congress does it show or say that a constitutional amendment was ever brought before the states for a vote. And this means that the SCOTUS could only rule on what was there as nowhere in article 3 of the Constitution does it give them the right to "interpret" anything as if this is the case then the next makeup of the court or future makeup, could "interpret" it a completely different way and thus cause complete chaos. And lets not forget that the 10th Amendment clearly states that unless the Constitution specifically grans any branch of the government a specific right or authority, then they dont have it and never did or have had it.
If you are going to try and use a myth then at the very least make sure that you can back it up, and in this case you cant.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It’s ironic you use the term myth to make an argument against the “ separation of church and state“ clause in the first amendment. Considering right wingers are using myths and superstition to rule a country, and use their faith as a cudgel against people’d civil liberties. The only ones who make the argument you make are those seeking control and to force others to their whims. No thanks. No one is saying your religion can’t influence your political views. They’re just saying you can’t use your religious views to tell others what they can and can’t do with their persons. Here’s some fun reading. This is a plethora, Gray. I’ve seen the counter arguments made by PragerU and right wing sources. But again it’s just fascist interpretations of our dated documents that need shelved, reworked, and updated.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/10/28/in-u-s-far-more-support-than-oppose-separation-of-church-and-state/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/breakdown-church-and-state/613498/
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/separation_of_church_and_state
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Daniel Gray
Its ironic that you try and justify your claims. Look it up. 1787 was the date the Constitution was rqatified, 1802 was the first mention of this myth a good 15 years AFTER the constitution was riatified. Now go back and ask your source or any local history teacher or attorney exactly HOW you change the constitution. Its called a Constitutional Amendment. Now tell us exactly when this mythical amendment was passed. I wont hold my breath waiting.
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Thomas P. Davis
That is why the bible describes the USA as a lamblike beast with two horns. It was raised on Christian principles and the two horns are religious and civil liberty. The reason for which the people fled here from Europe, where the two were connected. But the Bible later says the lamblike beast will speak as a dragon. This is when those two horns come together as in Europe and the separation of church and state is removed. You have seen the constitution slowly eroding for years and it has accelerated in the last two years with our freedom on speech and assembly taken away.
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Daniel Gray
Sigh...there IS NO SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE to be removed from anything. Again the Constitution was ratified in 1787 and the first mention of this myth was in a letter from Jefferson to his baptist detractors NOT in a constitutional amendment as the Constitution requires you to do. And if anyone can show when this amendment was passed, please do as its not listed anywhere in the Library of Congress. And if you think that Congress can interpret what the Constitution says, ok then show me where in Article 3 of the Constitution it grants the SCOTUS or any judge for that matter, the right to do this. I have had numerous different copies of the constitution in my over 60 years of walking this earth and I have yet to find it in any of them. IN fact when I went to DC I actually SAW one of the original Constitutions and I looked and read Article 3 and its not there either. So go ahead and prove it, I wont hold my breath waiting.
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Diana Lee McAnsh
The Bible should be restricted. Had compulsory Christian religious studies in school, even at the tender age of 11 I realized the evil that we were being forced to study.
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As I read through some of these, I find that once again the forest is missed for the trees, has anyone considered that all these discussions aren't actually about the books at all?