What should we make of the idea of a "transgender Jesus?" A research fellow at the University of Cambridge wants people to consider the thought.
During a recent sermon, junior research fellow Joshua Heath shocked his audience at the Trinity College chapel by making the case for a trans Jesus.
Congregants left the Sunday service in tears crying “heresy,” but religious leaders at Cambridge University are defending the message, arguing that the speculation is “legitimate” and “thought-provoking.”
So, what did Heath present as evidence for this claim?
Jesus Embraces The Feminine
Heath used a number of feminine artistic depictions of Jesus throughout the medieval era to make the claim that Jesus had a “trans body.”
Pointing to Jean Malouel’s 1400 painting Pietà, he asked the audience to consider why the blood in the painting flows from Jesus’ chest into his groin. Could this be symbolic of the menstrual cycle?
Heath also argued that the depiction of Jesus’ spear wound in the 14th-century Prayer Book of Bonne of Luxembourg “takes on a decidedly vaginal appearance.”
"In Christ's simultaneously masculine and feminine body in these works, if the body of Christ as these works suggest the body of all bodies, then his body is also the trans body," Heath suggested.
Parishioners Cry Foul
Some worshippers did not take kindly to the notion that Christ’s body could in any way be symbolic of, or linked to, the transgender movement.
Reports state that many people – including children – were “visibly uncomfortable” with the discussion about Christ’s crucifixion being connected to transgender identity.
According to a source at the service, some people even cried out "heresy!" as they left the chapel in disgust.
Evangelical leader Franklin Graham has gotten wind of the story and published a statement calling the sermon "repulsive and shameful."
Dean Plays Defense
"I left the service in tears," wrote one anonymous churchgoer in a letter to the Dean of theology at Cambridge University, Dr. Michael Banner.
"You offered to speak with me afterwards, but I was too distressed. I am contemptuous of the idea that by cutting a hole in a man, through which he can be penetrated, he can become a woman,” they wrote, describing it as a “heresy for our age.”
But Dr. Banner (who is also a reverend) feels differently, insisting the sermon's speculation was "legitimate." The dean holds the service was not intended to “shock or offend,” but to explore a “thought-provoking academic inquiry.”
Is Jesus Trans?
Regardless of the speaker’s intent, the idea that Jesus Christ might have been transgender is gaining traction in some circles.
And in fact, the idea that Christ’s depiction in Renaissance art is evidence of transgender identity might be more popular than you think.
Last Christmas, a German Bible museum portrayed Christ as a transgender woman in a play just weeks before Christmas.
And earlier this year, a prominent Baptist reverend claimed that Jesus was smashing gender norms and “transgenders himself” by washing the feet of the apostles’ feet.
As modern scholars continue to explore gender identity and sexuality – particularly around transgender people – it's no surprise that some are looking backward to challenge preexisting beliefs on the subject.
But is any discussion of Jesus’ sexuality or gender identity off-limits… or even blasphemous? Or is exploring the idea that Jesus was transgender acceptable?
When it comes to religious beliefs, where is the line?
278 comments
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Mary Haviland
Sorry I digressed. Yes there were records of Yashua living in Israel. There are even Romans who sent correspondence to Rome about Joshua. And diem of them even say they met Him. You are all just too lazy or ignorant as to how to find the info.
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Mary Haviland
I can't find the person who sent me the last comments, but your comment shows your ignorance. You commented on the teachings from Yashua were made by historians. Your so ignorant. Since the time if Enoch,YHWY instructed his people to keep written records. They had scribes. For example, Jasher was a scribe. You can find the book if Jasher in various places. He was Moses scribe. So it would make sense that Yashua would also have scribes. There were the Essenes who had kept records and they also taught Him in their schools during the time between 13 years of age and 30. Where do you think we was during that time? T Lobsang Rompa says that His name was entered into the log of students up in the monastery. It should still be there, if the chi comms haven't destroyed it.
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Mary Haviland
for a minister, you sure are ignotant. this is the bad thing about many of the modernday ministers, they want to preach about Yashua, and they have no anointing from YHWY and they dont know what they are talking about. It is clear to me you have not read the scriptures or done any research about Yeshua at all or you would know the answers from with in the scriptures or the resarch about who he was. For one thing the isrealites were white, and the Bible says Mary was fair, didnt it, if Yashus was a colone of Mary, but with an XY chromashomes then he too would be fair, and further more, pictures are drawn how they are drown, maybe the artist found drawing the genitals hard to draw, or offensive. But the reasons why does not mean that is how Yashua was actually like that. and btw, that is the only rendition of any kind of drawing of Yashua, how can people draw conclussions of such things from only a single drawing, Look at pacaso paintings, if we went the way people drew or painted other things, we would believe that the imigese that like pacaso saw was really warpped, people dont see things in the way pacaso saw things. And we might live in a fallen world, But Mary was not corrupted and inpure, so thererfore, there is not reason to believe that Yashua was born into sin, if in fact Mary had not had sex with a man as the sciptures say, then why wouldnt Yashua be born pure too. Every family memeber that Yashua came from down the line, were careful of whom they married and had childlren with, then it is possible. He came from a long line of HOLY people, so why would you thing he would be born in sin.
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Mary Haviland
Like what are you looking for as solid evidence? Since transgenderism is a mental condition, there is no physical form of proof. So what do you want as evidence. A statue of Him? If that's what you want. Then go here. https://youtu.be/LLnCIp3OVmE
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Mary Haviland
Jesus was not transgender. He was too rjghteous to be a mentally ill transgender anything. His Father, YHWY would see that as very disgusting and animalistic or aka carnal, The Father is so above carnality and Yeshua was here to do His Father's work. Not Satan's work of spreading debauchery of things like transgenderism.
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John D. Partin
Amen, Mary Havilland!! God bless you for telling the truth here and speaking out against this perversion of who Christ was and is!!!
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Mary Haviland
this is rediculas, and it is blasphamy, there is enough evidence ou there to prove that he was all man, and he also not a homo or a tranny,
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Lionheart
Where is the real solid evidence, Mary? No historians that ever wrote about Jesus never met him, because it was decades later.
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Mary Haviland
The evidence was in his teachings. He always taught against that kind of filth. If you ever read all the scriptures, you would know that. His and our Father found that to be carnal. We are not to be carnal and he was here to do His father's bidding. Also the proof is that he was not that He was not mentally ill. He would not have been able to do His father's bidding if He were mentally ill, He would not had been able to have the physical capacity to keep his apposles in line and He would not have had the respect if the apostles if he were anything other then who He said He was. He was not a liar or a deceiver and he said if something were not so, He would tell them, so. So them where did He ever say He was anything but a man. It didn't happen because he was perfect and He wasn't a mentally sick person.
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Lionheart
But Mary, we still have no knowledge as to what Jesus ever really said to anyone, because all we have are stories that have been handed, and written about, by some historians that never met him.
Historians that were alive during the time Jesus was supposed to have been around never wrote about him, as far as we know.
There is in fact very little historical evidence that Jesus was real, even though it’s possible someone like him did exist.
Thanks for your comments.
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Mary Haviland
Did or did not the Father destroy soddom and Gomorrah? Because if their disgusting behavior? Didn't Father YHWY say that Yashua, aka Jesus was His beloved son, of ehime He was very pleased? If He was a freak, His and our Father YHWY would not have been pleased with Him. He would then had been the son of Satan not YHWY. If Yashua were a freak, He would not had been Holy enough to make the demons in Hell tremble and made a show if them. Satan would had welcomed Him to Hell and not be worried the while first day that He were there if F as there YHWY if anything had happened to Him. He would not had been able to melt the dons faces,. Make them tremble in fear, and been reselected. He also would not had been allowed to ascend into Heaven. Nothing unclean or umpire can enter into Heaven. He would had been kicked back out of Heaven before He got there.
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Lionheart
The anecdotal story of Sodom and Gomorrah only exists in a book, Mary. There is no archaeological evidence to back up the claims that were written about that place. In fact, no one has yet proved any of the earths gods are/were real, let alone that any god had a hand in its destruction.
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Mary Haviland
you are wrong again, ron wyatt and others have found those sites, and have proven those sites really do exist, and guess what, there is still unburnt balls of pure high grade sulfer there, they can even still burn the sulfer. so again you dont know what you are talking about. some of the sulfer was even embeded sideways in the rocks and that cant come about naturally. you can find it on youtube. you are really ignorant about this stuff and so you shouldnt cament on it like you know what your talking about if you are this ignorant.
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Lionheart
I never said that those sites don’t exist, Mary. I referenced the anecdotal “story” related to Sodom and Gomorah.
You clearly don’t understand the science of geology, and the cataclysmic events the earth continues to go through, Mary, and you are totally relying on something you’ve watched on YouTube. Your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.
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Mary Haviland
what are you calling or wanting as real solid evidence, because to a true cristian, the bible is solid evidence. if your not, then your are seeing things from a carnal point of view, and that is called sin, a real holy person doesnt see things from the carnal world. but people with a mental illness, with is why most people sin, and is wrong with the majority of the people in the world, and if so, then nothing will surfice as evidence for you. you wont accept anything as evidence.
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Lionheart
Again, Mary, you are only quoting things that you have read in a book, mostly written by people who didn’t know where the Sun went at night.
It’s totally okay if you want to believe what you’ve read about, but what you are doing is no different to what others feel about their book that they see as being holy, like the Quran, or the Bhagavad Gita for instance, and there are many other writings that other religions believe are holy scripture.
Those other religions have decided that your book is not as holy as theirs.
It’s a real shame, isn’t it, that if there really was a god the only way he could think about proving his reality was to have others write about him. If it was me, and I was a god, I’d show up once in a while to prove I exist. I would particularly show up at children’s hospitals to help heal them, than to help football players score goals, or help people pass exams. Know what I mean, Mary?
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Mary Haviland
yeah, so, the bible is considered the truth and most everything can can be proven in it has been proven to be so, that is more then your so call proof. much is learn and can be learned from books, and many records are kept in books and ar true. and the old and even modern jewish record keepers have a reuptation for keeping the history and the records truful.
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Lionheart
There are too many errors in that book for it to be considered 100% truth, so how does one decide what is truth and what isn’t? How does one decide what is truth written down in any book written 2 millennia or more ago.
For instance, there is still no historical evidence for the existence of Moses, or even Abraham 🤷🏼
We also know, through the science of genetics, using DNA research, that there never was an Adam and Eve. We now know that man evolved, and wasn’t created 6000 years ago.
No one has yet been able to prove that any of the worlds gods that mankind believes in is real, or has ever existed.
Thanks for your thoughts.
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David Cox
You are more lost than a needle in a hay stack....a bunch of foolish talking on here. Nothing but haters of God.
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Lionheart
How can we hate something that has no evidence of being real?
Prove it exists and I might listen to you, David, and if you can, you’ll be the first person on earth to do it, and you will be the recipient of a Nobel prize.
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John D. Partin
There is no proving anything to anyone who has closed his eyes, mind, and heart to all evidence right in front of him, and then says, like the man who is blind or has blindfolded himself out in broad daylight, "Where is the sun? I can't see it and so it doesn't exist!". And doesn't believe the warmth on his face, either. We are all still waiting for your example of a self-driving car, if you are correct in your view that mindless things can run and maintain themselves. Where is your evidence of that?
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Lionheart
Why am I thinking your name won't be the on the Nobel Prize this year showing that you have proved there is a God?
If your name isn't on it this year, John, then it's you that has no evidence, not me. How blind are you to the fact that you have no evidence. If you truly have evidence, apart from the clap-trap you keep pathetically stating, your name will be in lights.
Admit it, John, your name won't be on it, and you know why don't you, but you daren't admit it.
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John D. Partin
Getting our names in lights and on the Nobel prize and receiving their prize money isn't the reason for telling the obvious truth of God's existence (even if that is the only reason that you can think of for anyone's doing that), but just for love of the truth and the joy of spreading the truth. Even if someone won the Nobel prize for proving God's existence, that still wouldn't prove it to you and all other atheists, who would go on in your blind, deaf, and closed-minded atheism, as though nothing had been proven about that at all. So, why do you keep harping on the Nobel prize, which wouldn't prove anything to you, anyway, and so is irrelevant to you? What you don't believe through reason, you can't be talked out of through reason, and you and all atheists are atheists because God doesn't jump through your hoops or do tricks at all for you or fast enough to suit you and won't just be your servant, instead of you being His servant, and do whatever you tell him to do as fast as you want him to do it, and when you say "Jump!", He doesn't ask "How high?" or jump. And because God doesn't do all of that, "well, then, there is no God or evidence of God's existence", which you wouldn't say about any human being who didn't do all of that for you, either, and just cover over that real reason with all of this "scientific" evasiveness of that real reason. "Why doesn't God jump through my hoop and pass my test of healing all of the children in cancer hospitals to prove His existence to me, without demanding that I or anyone else give up our sinning, which keeps the natural order disrupted and causing cancer in children and all other problems in the world, so that we can go on sinning without any consequences from that?". That is the childish "thinking" of you and all other atheists about the problems that we keep bringing on ourselves, and then blame God for not instantly fixing over and over again endlessly, so that we can live in a consequence free universe!! But that wouldn't actually be His loving us if He did that because loving us means wanting us to grow up and out of that "thinking" and face the consequences of our sinning and learn to give up our doing just what is right in our own eyes and leaning unto our own understanding, due to the consequences from doing that, instead of turning to God and He will guide our paths. The universe again is the evidence of God's existence, since it can't do anything for itself, being a mindless thing, and so needs a non-contingent Creator and Mind behind it to do for it what it can't do for itself. Your refusal to look at and consider that evidence doesn't make that evidence not exist. Why don't you get the Nobel prize for disproving God's existence and giving the world other reasons for all of these signs of intelligence in an unintelligent universe? Why am I thinking that your name won't be on that prize? And you know why it won't, too, because you can't disprove God's existence when He does exist. Or else just do it and stop just saying that He doesn't exist without giving us proof that He doesn't!!
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Lionheart
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John D. Partin
It is more evidence of your childishness and inability to reason and argue intelligently that you can't respond with anything intelligent here, but only post your stupid emojis!! Go and play with yourself and drain off those fluids that have backed up into your "brain"!! That's all that you are good for!!
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Lionheart
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Paul Phillip Miller
These outraged Parishioners have Obviously never heard of trepanation.
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Stoodie Baker
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Stop it you guys! I can't take it! HAHAHAHAHA!!!
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John D. Partin
Woe unto you who laugh now, for you shall weep!
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Lionheart
Oh stop it!
You really don't come across as being very well, John. I see few, if any, agree with your dogma. Please go and get some help, or try and find someone that agrees with you, if that will help you.
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John D. Partin
First remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Nobody with as many problems as you have has any business telling me or anyone else to "go and get some help". People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I just wonder how many times Jesus impregnated herself, and what they did with the babies.
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Darren Wayne Peters
Brothers and Sisters,
Free will is a blessing, not a pass to say things that are untrue. It is a method by which you can experience truth, relationships, LOVE while getting to know the CREATOR and JESUS, not a free pass to reimagine THEM.
Those that require explanation will see, will experience what their EGO and Pride has given them...... ZERO / NOTHING.
You know there are two genders, yet if your narcissism finds a way to make three, I guess you know better than GOD?
That is sarcasm, of course you don't you know anything of who you are, where you are from, yet you have the time while not searching for Truth in your lives to say these things? How sad indeed...... you are spreading your lies and opinions over the world hoping for what, that some people somewhere agree with you? Well-done then you succeeded in wasting everyone's time, and condemning your own life in the process.
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Lionheart
Free will is given to everyone. Unfortunately, religion extinguishes free will, often causing what is known by psychologists as RTS (Religious Trauma Syndrome). It prevents people from thinking for themselves for fear of the mythical torment of the fictional Hell, which many are indoctrinated to believe. As a result, it sadly prevents people from being who they truly are.
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John D. Partin
Many people have to learn the hard way and won't believe in Hell until they are there, when it's too late for them!! Worldly "thinking" and atheism aren't people's thinking for themselves, but only mooing and ambling along with the worldly herd and going along with all of its nonsense and idiocy, in order to be accepted and not be considered "foolish and strange" by them. It's much better to be merely considered "foolish" by the actually foolish world than to be considered foolish by God!! But you will never get blindered and small minded atheists and worldly people to understand that, until God opens their minds and hearts to understanding it.
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Lionheart
Yep, many people will have to learn the hard way when they find that the real god that loves you is Zeus, and that there is no Hell.
Zeus loves you, John. Can you feel him yet in your heart, and mind?🤭
PS: I see children hospitals are still active, John. Plenty of goals scored though in the World Cup that players were raising their arms up to the sky after they'd scored a goal giving thanks to God for helping them score. 🤷🏼.You Christians are crazy! I see you have been arguing with a few just lately.
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John D. Partin
You don't have enough intelligence to understand anything that I would waste any more time in telling you, as your not understanding countless times before when I have told you why God isn't emptying the children's hospitals proves!! So, just go back to playing with yourself and getting rid of those excess fluids that have backed up into your "brain", which is all that you are good for, since we don't need any more evidence that you are among the fools who will find out, very sadly --- forever, that you are wrong about there being no Hell!!
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Lionheart
Got any demonstrable evidence yet, John, to your claim that Hell exists?
Would that be the Egyptian Hell, the Islamic Hell, or the Hell that you seem to be in, and can’t get out of 😂
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Rev'd Andrew
Poor John is so obsessed with homosexuality, he can't formulate a coherent argument. It's sadly unsurprising that he accuses you of "playing with yourself" and having "excess fluids". The poor guy is so deep in the closet...he just needs to come out and embrace his big gay self.
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Lionheart
That is sooo funny, Andrew, an I totally agree. Thanks for your comment.
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John D. Partin
You and "Rev." Andy don't know what is funny or you would both be laughing at yourselves into hysterical rolling around on the floor constantly!! Your "thinking" that anything that I say is "funny" is just more proof of your blindness and the biggest joke here!!
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John D. Partin
Andrew, you are so obsessed by your homophilic bigotry that you can't stop indulging in it at all and go on in your ridiculous and illogical statement that anyone who condemns homosexuality "must be a closet gay", which, if we follow your lack of any logic, would mean that people who condemn pedophilia, rape, serial killers, Nazis, hypocrites and perverts, such as yourself, and all other immoral people, "must be doing all of those things, too!". Unless you are just playing more of your childish games, as usual. Stop judging anyone by yourself!! As for "coherent arguments", you wouldn't know one if it came up and kicked you in the behind, considering your not even believing that there is a Hell or that homosexuality is a sin, despite all the verses in the Bible and Christianity's tradition stating that there is a Hell and that homosexuality is a sin!! Not to mention all of your other idiocy!! But then, you are under Satanic control and a Satanist, anyway, and so why would you care anything about what Scripture or Church tradition say?!! Come out of that closet and admit your Satanism and Satanic control and stop pretending to believe in Jesus, as your buddy Chickenheart above, at least, doesn't pretend to do!!
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Rev'd Andrew
As I've already stated above, I have not once said that "anyone who condemns homosexuality must be a closet gay". Rather, I've said that your unhealthy fixation on anal sex between consenting adult males reveals your secret yearning to fulfill your late-night homoerotic fantasies. I've also stated that God will still love you when you come out of the closet and start living honestly and being your big gay self.
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John D. Partin
We understand very well that transference is a necessity for people who have your condition and can't accept having your own late-night homo-erotic fantasies and desire for being taken by many men all night long, and so accuse other people of what you are doing and dreaming about yourself. With the proper treatment and in time, you will be able to recover, hopefully, and come out of your Satanist closet and all of your other closets and self-deceptions and no longer feel the need to accuse other people of those things. God will definitely still love you when you stop that transference and admit the truth about yourself, which is required for your coming out of that, and can honestly be your own big gay self until He brings you out of that, too!!
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John D. Partin
You will find out for yourself and prove it to yourself, since you won't listen to anyone trying to warn you about it.
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Lionheart
Im sorry you are still having trouble finding someone to agree with you, John? Hang in there!
Happy New Year 🤗
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John D. Partin
I'm not interested in getting anyone else to agree with me, since there are more than enough of us already, and if nobody believed it, it would still be the truth, and if everyone else agreed with your lies, they would still be lies! Truth isn't decided by popularity polls. But I do know, at least, one other person who will agree with me that there is a Hell, and that is YOU, one second after you die!!
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Rev'd Andrew
If you're not interested in anyone agreeing with your hate-filled rants, please do us all a favor and quit posting.
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John D. Partin
This is just more of your delusion and mental illness and transference onto me and other people of what is actually inside of yourself to assume that entirely reasonable and loving posts are "hate filled rants", but we just have to make allowances for you and consider the source of those views, and just hope that you will get help soon and come out of all that transference onto other people, which will make God very happy for you. Until then, I'll continue to write for and share with others here who aren't so afflicted as yourself.
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Lionheart
Your religious rants have become a farce, John, even among your own people. When will you wake up?
Presumably, the second you leave this life.
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John D. Partin
Your asking me or anyone else when we will "wake up", considering your own sleepwalking through life and illogical beliefs, is really the biggest joke here! That person isn't one of my own, but one of those who Jesus will tell "Depart from me, you evildoers!! I never knew you". You can have a long talk with him soon, if you still feel like talking or are able to there!!
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Lionheart
If he is real, and If I ever do see him at any time, I’ll punch him on his nose, and stamp on his sandalled feet for being an absolute idiot for not condemning slavery, and doing nothing to help children dying of painful illnesses.
He seems to be more interested in helping players score goals ⚽️
Keep talking to your god, and hopefully he’ll listen to you one day, John. No one else does 🤷🏼
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John D. Partin
Since, according to your delusions about yourself, you would "punch God on his nose and stamp on his feet", we would all appreciate a much smaller demonstration of your "fearlessness" and go punch the biggest meanest guy you can find on his nose and stamp on his feet for what he has actually done wrong. So that he can beat you down into the ground!! And invite the news media to witness that, so that we can all benefit from your example and witness it and be amused by it!! What you wouldn't do even on my dare to you here or for any amount of money to that bigger meaner man than yourself, you are only lying to yourself even more that you would do to God or else let's see it and sell tickets to it!! Everyone enjoys seeing a good beat down, as Steven Seagal and Bruce Lee movies prove. We will be looking forward to that show!!
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John D. Partin
Instead of telling us these egotistical fantasies of your "punching God on his nose and stamping on his feet", why don't you try doing all of that to a bigger meaner man than yourself, which should be easy for you after "beating up God", for all of the wrong things that he has done and good that he hasn't done, so that he can beat you down into the ground?!! Let's all see this "fearlessness" of yours on someone that you know is real, instead of telling us how mean you would be to a Being that you don't even believe exists and hope, for your own eternal well being and staying out of Hell, doesn't exist!! None of you idiots who talk about "beating up God" and can't see any evidence of His existence listen to me, which suits me just great, but you never listen to reason or common sense or logic, anyway, and you don't speak for the sensible people here.
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TheSound.com
Jesus is coming backas a drag queen and boy is she pissed! (This is a joke people, lighten up a bit for God's sake.)
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John D. Partin
Not everything is a fit subject for a joke. Would you see nothing wrong with jokes being made about your loved ones? You would if you really love them. Jesus doesn't deserve disrespect from you or anyone or to be made the subject of "jokes", since he only loves people and doesn't deserve that treatment for that and there are things that are too sacred for that!!
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Rev'd Andrew
If God created everything, that includes humor. You puritans really need to lighten up.
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John D. Partin
Since you really hate and disrespect Jesus, and only put up a front of "believing in him", so as to make him "support" whatever you want him to "support", it is understandable why you don't have any problem with laughing at and ridiculing him!! Because anyone would have to be a "Puritan" not to ridicule Jesus, right?!! Come out of your closet and admit your Satanism and Satanic control and stop pretending to "believe in Jesus" to make him "support" whatever you want him to "support"!!
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Rev'd Andrew
God created humor, John. Only the weak-minded and insecure are unable to deal with being the subject of jokes. Are you calling God weak and insecure?
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John D. Partin
God created humor, the same as He created sex and other good things, but as with all other good things, Satan twisted and distorted them to have people put them to evil uses. So, humor was distorted into mockery and ridicule of obese or mentally challenged or disabled or all other people with any other problems for other people's sick amusement, and into mockery of Jesus by the Pharisees and temple guards and Roman soldiers when he stood before them and they were scourging and crucifying him. Only those, such as yourself, who aren't able to or refuse to make distinctions between good and bad or evil humor, indiscriminately lump all humor together and consider it all "good"!! That tells me and other people reading your post here that you would have been among those who laughed at and mocked Jesus Christ when he was being scourged at the pillar and stood before the Sanhedrin, and would have said along with them "Prophesy, who has struck you!" when they blindfolded him and slapped him, and when he hung on the cross, though you claim to be his "follower". With "friends" like you, who needs enemies?!! You would have laughed as he fell three times on the way to the cross and have said, along with his other mockers "Come down from the cross, if you are truly the Messiah!" and have laughed over that, too, and when he died on the cross! Because you think that all humor is "good" and the same, and really hate Jesus, as I already told you, and so would be delighted by his agony and death on the cross and humiliation by those who put him on it, and tortured him, and stood around him!! So, why not be honest about that and come out of your closet and admit your Satanism and Satanic control and stop pretending to be a Christian? You are already doing all of that to Jesus, anyway, by mocking and ridiculing anyone else, as Jesus said "Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me". You are doing that to Jesus by trying to mock and ridicule me. It isn't "only the weak-minded and insecure" who are unable to deal with malicious humor and ridicule of them, but normal people who just want to be treated as those who are mocking and ridiculing then would also want to be treated, as you would want to be treated, with decency and respect! Your "good" humor is what white racists did to black people when they lynched and committed all other mocking violence on them!! It's what the Nazis did to the Jews when they put them into concentration camps and insulted and mocked them and finally killed them and cremated their bodies in ovens!! God hates all of this evil mockery of and inhumanity of man to man!! Are you calling God weak and insecure,, since you say that only "weak and insecure" people object to those jokes on people or themselves?!!
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Rev'd Andrew
You mock and ridicule yourself, Johnny. Your word salads mock God, mock Jesus, and mock Christianity. Luckily for you God has a good sense of humor, so She'll probably let you off with a warning.
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John D. Partin
Your "thinking" that my condemnation of mocking Jesus and other people is "mocking and ridiculing myself" and "word salad" and "mocking Jesus and Christianity" is more evidence of your transference onto other people of your mocking and ridiculing yourself and mocking Jesus and Christianity, just as you transfer your own late-night homo-erotic anal sex fantasies and desire for many men to each take you over and over again onto other people, but enough therapy, in time, will bring you out of all those aspects of your mental illness. Your talk about my or anyone else's "parroting" you, as though you own the English language, is just more evidence of your condition and disorder. God will definitely be very happy when you overcome all of that transference and come out of your closets and admit the truth about yourself.
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Rev'd Andrew
Word Salad.
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John D. Partin
More transference onto others of what you are actually doing and what is inside yourself. Get that therapy very soon and you will be much better and God will be happy when you are doing better.
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Lionheart
John Partin seems to always be in his own. The only person that agrees with him is someone called John Partin.
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John F. Culbert
I can't believe the comments about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ being a transgender!! If he was the people in the temple would not put up with Him overturning tables and chase the moneychangers out without Him being beaten even before He went to the cross. I find this very offensive and I believe is blasphemy to the worst degree. The Lord said that in the last days that there would be a falling away from the Church. I think it's a shame that the people use their 1st ammendment rights to publish such trash.
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Lionheart
How do you know what Jesus really said, and what he really did, assuming he really existed of course?🤷🏼
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Doctor Loyal
Perhaps, it's because I am "Old School", and have not been tainted by the alphabetical queer agenda, but this subject is offensive at the least, and blasphemy at the worst. Trying to transpose sexuality on a "Religion" where a Deity is turned into a gay or trans sideshow is not only offensive to myself, but to the vast majority of Christian believers. This nauseous and sexually twisted portrayal is outside the boundaries of any possible inquiry and is tantamount to a direct attack on the basic tenets of a Faith.
Excommunicate me if you must, but do show the minimal respect due to a follower of a "Faith". Scatology, sexuality, and violence do not excuse a "Faith", but do define a "CULT".
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Rev'd Andrew
If you took the time to understand human biology as it pertains to DNA and chromosomes, you'll realize the the suggestion isn't beyond the realm of possibility. But if you are offended by science, just say so.
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Marathuzula
Jesus the Zombie Trans Overlord!!! Christians the world over quake in fear. Doesn't matter in the least bit. Most modern christians are freaks of nature compared to the world Jebus spoke to. I think his revolutionary message makes a lot of sense including far more feminine accepting ideals. But, that is largely the gospel of Mary. Apocryphal... but important. Christians, are not Christ like.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Who would want to be Christlike? We're all different individuals, and I , for one, am always glad to only be myself.
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John D. Partin
Because only one of you is all that the world could take and is more than enough and almost too much, whereas we could definitely use much more Christiness in the world!!
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Lionheart
If you are an example of what “Christiness’’ is, John, I’d never join it. Spending an eternity with you would truly be a Hell.
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John D. Partin
The truth is always Hell to those who don't want to hear or read it! Christ gave the scribes and Pharisees and moneychangers in the temple "Hell" when he told them the truth about themselves which they didn't want to hear, and they would have been in "Hell" being in Heaven with him forever, too, and so they chose Hell to get away from him. So, your attitude and being in "Hell" reading the truth is typical and understandable, too. Even in Hell, they can't escape the truth and light of God, which are their Hell and flames, too!!
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Lionheart
Just more of your "unChristiness, mythical clap-trap, John.
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Gary Arnold Bluemel
The "trans-thing" is only beginning to come out of the shadows of repression and decades of suicides and suppression. The idea that Jesus was trans should be considered seriously. There is mountains of evidence that point to gender roles being far less binary than they were during the post WW2 masculine movement (which is why the translation change in the bible). The Mary Magdalene relationship with Jesus is very interesting and should be investigated.
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Susan Christine Giganti
Jean Malouel in 1400 , chose not to paint Jesus and his package. If any people he worked for were depicted in the painting the painting, it would not be appropriate for them to be looking in the direction of Jesus’ junk.
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John Rose
This story screams heresy this century has brought out the weirdest people and I can't believe the team would go to bat for this guy and come on man if you truly believe in God our Lord and Jesus Christ don't forget that what you preach can piss off your God that is something to never forget for you will be in front of him and stand trial before you go to heaven or hell that's all I got to say on that
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Rev'd Andrew
Jesus had to be FtM-trans. Without male sperm impregnating Mary (otherwise there wouldn't be a virgin birth) there was no way for Jesus to have a Y-chromosome. So Jesus was born XX. Which is female. That must be why (s)he disappeared for 30 years before starting ministry as a man.
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William J Comeau
So if someone draws or paints Christ with horns and a pointy tail that would automatically make him Satan? Really?! Here is where you draw the line, the BIBLE! The Bible specifically condemns homosexuality which would include most of the "trans" community. Therefore, NO, JESUS WAS NOT TRANS! These so-called "Ministers" are dead wrong and they will pay the price for their blasphemy. Unfortunately, they are taking other people with them due to their ignorance and anti-Christian preaching. The people of that church and that college should run as fast and as far away as they can from these places unless they want to all burn for eternity.
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Rev'd Andrew
The Old Testament specifically condemns a whole host of things, including tattoos, eating pork and shellfish, wearing mix fibers, and menstruating women. Since I doubt you can honestly say that you have never broken a single one of the rule in the OT, you should take a seat and read Matthew 7: 1-3
As for your claim that "Jesus was not trans". Well, that is in fact debatable. The virgin birth means no male sperm was used in Jesus' conception, which means 'he' couldn't have a Y-chromosome. As a XX baby 'he' would have been born a she. So, Jesus was likely a Female-to-Male trans.
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William J Comeau
It is interesting to me that you would quote Mathew 7:1-3 to me while at the same time violating it yourself. If indeed you read and understood the Bible you would know that Mary's blood did not mix with Jesus' either. He was simply there. This is what puts him above the humanly plain as God in human form, as a "man". Nothing I said was in judgement of anybody, I simply told the truth of how it is. You do know also that Jesus changed much of what was in the OT including what we are allowed to eat. Everybody breaks the rules because we are ALL sinners and not one of us perfect. I would challenge you to quote a single verse in the Bible that allows homosexuality. Being a Minister with a PhD in Religion I know that you are not going to be able to do that. So maybe instead of name-calling and trying to put forth a narrative you know in your mind and heart that is NOT true, you might consider going back to the Book and studying a little bit more before you continue to convince others to be sinners. That is certainly not the role of a Minister if you are a true Christian. If you are not Christian, then I will pray for your soul and also ask you to stop trying to quote the Bible to unsuspecting would be Christians.
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Lionheart
I’m so sorry you have gone to the trouble of getting a PhD in Religion. You really would have been much better off getting an education in any if the earth based sciences, than fiction and myth. It still surprises me that people study religion and yet still remain indoctrinated to believe it all. Are you also one of those that believes in the Adam and Eve story? Just asking for a friend that has a PhD and believes in the Book of Mormon.
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Rev'd Andrew
Dear William,
It seems you're new to this. So let me explain: when a priest gives you a passage to read it is not out of judgement, but an attempt to teach. You went on a little rant, calling ministers with whom you disagree all kinds of names. You were being judgmental. I gave you a passage to read and did not pass judgement on you. So toughen up your skin, buttercup, as if you get offended at Matthew 7, you're really not going to like what I have to say next!
Can I just say, it is funny when someone is so insecure they have to tell everyone how 'learned' they are. People who truly earned their post-graduate degrees, at real universities, where they undergo a viva voce, tend to let their knowledge and understanding be their evidence. I suggest you ask for your money back from whatever "institution of higher learning" you bought your PhD, as your biblical understanding appears to be Sunday School level at best (student, that is, not teacher).
So, back to your claims:
"Mary's blood did not mix with Jesus'." So was Jesus human or not? According to the Bible, he was FULLY man: Hebrews 2:17 "Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people." For human sin to be forgiven, a human sacrifice was required. That's why God took the form of man, so that he could be fully human yet without sin. If he were not fully human he would be an angel or a god, the sacrifice of neither would have been sufficient to break the curse of Adam.
"Nothing I said was in judgement of anybody, I simply told the truth of how it is. You do know also that Jesus changed much of what was in the OT including what we are allowed to eat." Calling someone blasphemous IS judgmental. So add "liar" to your list of sins. And no, you did not tell "the truth of how it is". What you did was cloak your homophobia in fake Christianity. The reason I referenced the OT, and the ridiculous list of forbidden actions in Leviticus, is that the OT is the only place where homosexuality is specifically condemned. Indeed, homosexuality is so OLD OT that it doesn't even make the top 10 (i.e., the Ten Commandments). Contrary to your claim, Jesus came to fulfil, not change, the law (Matthew 5: 17-19) Now, when challenged by the Pharisees to name the 'greatest commandment in the law' Jesus listed two.
"Everybody breaks the rules because we are ALL sinners and not one of us perfect." This is the standard response by homophobes when it is pointed out that they also sin. Of course, homophobes conveniently forget that God considers ALL sin equal. So, IF homosexuality is a sin, it is as equally sinful as eating shellfish. Again, Matthew 7:1-3 is appropriate for you.
"I would challenge you to quote a single verse in the Bible that allows homosexuality." This is a sophomoric mistake for you, a claimed PhD in Religion, to make. I challenge YOU to quote a single verse in the bible that allows flying, or driving a car, or microwaving popcorn...I don't need to claim to have a PhD in Religion to know that you will not be able to. Does that make them sins? According to your logic, it does.
"So maybe instead of name-calling and trying to put forth a narrative you know in your mind and heart that is NOT true..." Ah, classic projection! Go back and re-read my words. Not once did I name-call. That was you, William. When you called people "sinners" and "blasphemers".
You do seem to have a fixation on homosexuality, William. Maybe you should consider opening the closet door.
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Earnest C Fulcher Jr
WHAT KIND OF PERVERT WOULD SEE A STAB WOUND IN THE SIDE REMINDS HIM OF THE FEMALE BODY PART?
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Jeremy Dax Herrera
These peices were created over a thousand years after Christ walked the earth. Are you saying that I can paint a picture of Hitler as a trans and suddenly that makes him a trans? This is nothing more than stupidity and taking a painting above what the artist meant.
I saw some people comment here about why they could see his genitals in the art. The simple answer is that the artist was not so hyper focused on the Lord's equipment as the morden day prevert is. They actually had respect for the Lord unlike many today.
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Kenneth E. Salvage Sr
Hogwash! Its was very common to removes the genitals from most of the classic religious art from about 1200 to 1700s and later in some cases. To base this transgenderism question on this period art is moronic. Shame on anyone that even tries to debase the Father, Son or Holly Sprite in this manor.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Kenneth, if all three of them are together as one, I bet all three of them are constantly screwing eachother. And the song goes "Shame, shame, shame, shame on you, and your sister too"!
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John D. Partin
Carla, once again or still you are making one of your obnoxious, stupid, and hateful comments, in your sick attempt at "humor", saying that the Holy Trinity "are constantly screwing each other", judging even God by your own sick and ridiculous self!! Grow the Hell up and stop making these stupid comments and trying to be a "comedian" in this blog, for which you have just no talent at all, and know that, too, and that's why you aren't taking your non-act out on the road!!! Give us a break from all of that, too!!
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Rev. Jim Sutton
One cannot draw "fact" from painting styles that dramatize (aka "literary license") an event and are specifically drawn to incorporate religious symbols and imagery COMMON FOR THE TIMES the paintings were created. Additionally, "facts" and suppositions should not be made over the illustration of a figure/person that the artist has NEVER seen. Said imagery is solely the imagination of the painter. "Fact" and supposition CANNOT, and SHOULD NOT, be drawn from imagination and the unreal. And shame on anyone who does. This just furthers unscientific, PC, and Cancel Culture research (BTW, the Earth is not flat).
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Timothy Albaugh
There is only ONE GOD. the rest is PAGAN. Thank you Susan
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Lionheart
Out of the 3000 or so, which one is it?
It would be nice if it turned up once in a while just to prove all the others wrong.🤷🏼
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Doctor Loyal
Good question, let me know if you discover the "Exalted Truth" through a vision or a visitation.
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Lionheart
I definitely will. I think he’s only showing up helping soccer players score goals, totally ignoring children dying of cancer in children’s hospitals. I’m sure he has a good reason. Personally, if he ever does show up, I will first of all punch him on his nose for being so uncaring of those who really need his miracles. 🤭
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John D. Partin
You can talk all of the egotistical and self-deluded nonsense that you want about what you would do to God if you ever met Him because of your misunderstanding of Him, when you wouldn't even punch a much bigger man on the nose because of your misunderstanding or even correct understanding of him, since he would then beat you down into the ground!! What you wouldn't do even to another bigger man, you can forget all about doing to God, except in your fantasies to and about yourself!! Even worse than "punching God in His nose", such as overthrowing His whole kingdom and taking over it, was already tried by beings much bigger and stronger than your ridiculous egotism tells you that you are, and all that they got for their trouble was being kicked out of Heaven and sent down to Hell!! So, God will definitely take care of you and all other absurd people "thinking" that you can hurt or do anything to Him even easier and tell all of you "Depart from me, you evildoers, into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels" and off you will go to Hell!! End of "fight": not even three seconds into "the first round"!! A prizefighter who couldn't do any better than you would do against God or even against a bigger man should look into some other way of making money because you aren't suited to that at all!!
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Lionheart
Nah, your mythical deity doesn't scare me like it scares you. You still need to wake up to reality, John.
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John D. Partin
Once again, you will have to learn the hard way, since you won't listen to any warnings, and go experience it for yourself...and then wish that you had listened to someone about it!! All "thought" of God's being "mythical" and "there being no Hell" will go flying away when you are standing before Him and He tells you to depart into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Just because you won't believe the evidence of God's existence in the universe without physically seeing Him and spare yourself that terrible fate that is awaiting you!! Remember in eternity, you wanted it that way!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Timothy, atleast you capitalized Pagan, as if to say you know we're the true religion.
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Terry G Edwards
Things can be lost. Things can be stolen. Things can be broken. Things can be replaced. Things are not important.
You own nothing. The land is not yours, the sky is not yours, the ocean is not yours. Your mind, you body, your spirit, all belong to the Creator to do with as he so chooses, whenever he so chooses.
Jesus is considered to be the son of God, a spirit manifested in the form of man to exist on this earth for a short period of time. There are probably millions of images created in what is believed to be his likeness. When you look at yourself in the mirror, do you not have a certain perception of what you see? Now if a thousand people from different cultures looked at you, do you think they would perceive to see the same person?
Most likely we would have a thousand and one different images. Perhaps we should concentrate less on the images and more on the spirit and its significance.
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Jean
I told myself some time ago that I wasn't going to engage with people in this blog anymore, but it appears I've changed my mind. Terry, I like your comment. Rev Dr Father, you think to be feminine is to be weak, timid, non-aggressive, a bottom, docile?? Interesting... Rev Dr G, chill, dude, we have brains for a reason. It's not a sin to use them. Colleges and universities are where people explore and learn and create and teach. Nobody needs to lose their job, just maybe receive some guidance on when and where to speak on their more creative explorations. Wilbert, I think you're on to something there. Tareq, may the Creator bless you! To all the small minded, concrete thinkers out there, take some Ex Lax. It will greatly improve your outlook.
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Jean
I told myself some time ago that I wasn't going to engage with people in this blog anymore, but it appears I've changed my mind. Terry, I like your comment. Rev Dr Father, you think to be feminine is to be weak, timid, non-aggressive, a bottom, docile?? Interesting... Rev Dr G, chill, dude, we have brains for a reason. It's not a sin to use them. Colleges and universities are where people explore and learn and create and teach. Nobody needs to lose their job, just maybe receive some guidance on when and where to speak on their more creative explorations. Wilbert, I think you're on to something there. Tareq, may the Creator bless you! To all the small minded, concrete thinkers out there, take some Ex Lax. It will greatly improve your outlook.
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robert
This is just yet another attempt by the alphabet mafia to make everyone out as a trans freak with mental issues! There are two genders , men do not have periods nor can they give birth, to even attempt to say otherwise with some psychobabal as a argument is out right stupid!
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Tom
Just because you don't understand the scientific evidence supporting the LGBTQ community doesn't make your bigotry right.
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Rev'd Andrew
I find that the topic of the sermon has merit, but that the evidence provided is weak, at best. There is, after all, a much stronger case to be made:
Jesus was a Female to Male trans.
Now, before y'all get your loincloths in a wad, follow the reasoning.
Mary was a virgin who became "with child" after a visitation by the angel Gabriel. Since Gabriel didn't have sexual intercourse with Mary, there was no introduction of a Y-chromosome. This means that Mary's child could only have XX chromosomes, so the child was born female.
Now imagine Mary's consternation at giving birth to a daughter having been explicitly told by Gabriel that she would give birth to a son, that she should name Him Jesus, and "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High God." What else could she do but raise her daughter as a boy?
We shouldn't accept that Jesus was trans because of some paintings. We should understand that the painting depict that Jesus was trans because Jesus lacked the Y-chromosome necessary to be born male.
Merry Christmas!
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Rev. B
Couldn't sky daddy have created a Y chromosome sperm? I always wondered how the story was supposed to go; did god create a sperm or did he create the entire fetus which means Jesus would have no genetic connection to Mary?
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Rev'd Andrew
If god could create a special Y-chromosome sperm, where would the DNA come from? Since god isn't human, its not as if there was some god DNA to use. That problem doesn't go away if god just planted a fetus in young-teen Mary. The problem remains: where would the DNA come from? Would it be some Nietzschean ubermensch DNA that god whipped up for the occasion?
It seems that using Occam's Razor gets us to XX Jesus who is off the books for 30 years while she transitions to a he.
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Rev. B
Andrew, you are overthinking this. It happens the same way any of the impossible nonsense in the great book of the sky daddy happens. Magic.
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Doctor Loyal
So, who did shave the Barber?
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Mary Haviland
If God can create the x and y chromasomes in the first humans, and if we are created in His image, then it would go to reason, that he can create it again or that he had some to use. but here is what was found with the blood that was evaluated in labs. Rod wyatt had it analize, havent you all heard about that. ill post it when i can figure out how to get it posted.
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
Interesting, but surely God could create anything he wanted to? I'm an atheist, BTW.I think the true explanation is medieval prudery.
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David Cox
Rev'd Andrew where did you get your knowledge from? A cracker jack box. ..I mean come on how old are you 10?
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Rev'd Andrew
Ahh, my dear David. You lack an argument so resort to ad hominem. Since I know where you got your 'knowledge' I'm comfortable asserting that a cracker jack box contains more truth than your old book of goat herder fables.
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Rev Mary
you are both arguing like children. calling names and shaming? perhaps time to leave the keyboard and take a walk
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Rev'd Andrew
No one asked you, Mary.
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John D. Partin
Rev. Mary didn't have to be asked to comment on your post, anymore than you had to be asked to comment on my post to Chickenheart or my having to be asked to comment on your post to her, because every post in this blog is open for everyone else to comment on without being asked to do so. So, stop applying rules to her that you don't even follow yourself and that nobody in here follows all the time with other people's posts.
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Rev'd Andrew
Oh look, another example of little Johnny failing to understand something really very simple. I stated a fact: that nobody asked for her opinion. Only a literalist would take that to mean that she was supposed to be asked to comment before posting a comment. People who understand the nuances of language recognize that this was a shorthand way of letting Mary know that considered her unsolicited comment meritless. The fact that you are a literalist explains why the true meaning of the Bible eludes you.
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John D. Partin
Your rigmarole and evasiveness here yet again about "nuances of language" or "literalist" or any other pseudo-sophisticated smokescreens that you can toss out, to "justify" yourself, don't overrule the bottom line that she can comment on whatever she wants to comment on. You also commented on my post to Chickenheart and so why didn't you know that your unsolicited comment was and is meritless and think about those "nuances of language" and not be a "literalist" yourself then and restrain yourself, as you think that Mary should have done? Or are your "rules" only for other people to follow, and not for yourself, which is hypocrisy and a double standard. It's easy to see with your two-faced "thinking" why the true meaning of the Bible eludes you and why many other things are true about you. She did what you did and gave you her unsolicited comment, as you gave me your unsolicited comment. If she was wrong to do that to you, you were wrong to do that to me, which is one standard of justice, instead of your double standard. Snobbishness isn't an argument, but the admission of a lack of any arguments or reason or logic to maintain your position, and so you resort to that. What you dismiss as "literalist" for your games is actually being honest and straightforward and fair-dealing, which you definitely need to look into becoming and then you won't be deceitfully saying that perversions and other sins are "okay" in the Church that preaches renunciation of sin and repentance from them, which is more proof of your being under Satanic control and a Satanist!! Let your Yes be Yes, and your No be No, for whatever is more than this is from the Evil One. That is Jesus' teaching, whom you only claim to "follow" when it suits you and you can make him "support" by cherry picking, revising, and ignoring Scriptures whatever you want him to "support".
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John D. Partin
You gave me your unsolicited comment about my post to Chickenheart, the same as she gave you her unsolicited comment about your post. Why didn't you restrain yourself as she thought she should have done and not give me your unsolicited comment, except that you operate on a double standard: one rule for you and a different rule for other people! All of your rigmarole and evasiveness and pseudo-sophisticated nonsense about "nuances of language" and "literalist" don't succeed in obscuring or invalidating the fact that you did the same thing that she did, but, in your twisted "thinking", she was "wrong" to do it, while you were "right" to do it. Snobbishness isn't an argument, but the admission of a lack of any arguments, reason or logic to maintain your position, and so you have to resort to those tactics. That explains why you have your distorted view of the Bible and believe that perversions and other sins are compatible with the Christian Church that teaches renunciation of sin and repentance from sin, and many other things about you. Let your Yes be Yes and your No be No, for whatever is more than this is from the Evil One. That is the teaching of Jesus, whom you claim to "follow", when it suits you and you can cherry pick, revise, and ignore the Scriptures to suit yourself, and is the opposite of your deviousness, self and other deceit, and hypocrisy. Actually read and follow the Scriptures in their entirety, and not just your mangled and distorted version of it!! Come out of your closet and admit your Satanism and Satanic control and stop pretending to believe in Jesus, so that you can hide behind him and use him to "support" whatever you want him to "support", and be honest, for a change!!
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Rev'd Andrew
You are the one using the word "wrong". As usual you build a false narrative because straw men are the only things you are able to defeat.
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John D. Partin
If you are saying that she shouldn't have given you her unsolicited comment, then you are saying that she was wrong to do so, that is, if we could ever get you to be honest about anything and stop playing games, which is impossible for you, of course!!
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John D. Partin
"Rev'd" Andrew, your whole ridiculous idea that Jesus was "secretly a girl" is blown out of the water by a little matter that you forgot to consider (along with everything else that you forgot to consider!) and that was Jesus' circumcision. No girl can pass muster at a circumcision, having nothing to circumcise, and Jesus was presented at the temple to the rabbi for that purpose. Even ridiculously assuming that Mary tried to hide Jesus' "actually being a girl" so that he would fulfill the prophecy of a male messiah, the rabbi and other witnesses in the temple saw the truth and the game was over. Also, Jewish culture and law would have prevented Mary from dressing up a girl as a boy because women couldn't wear clothing pertinent to men or men wear clothing pertinent to women, which is the whole Biblical objection to transvestism and transgenderism that we are debating here. She didn't dispense with that obstacle to her alleged ridiculous scheme, just so that she could violate it for her son's "disguise". Females weren't permitted to teach in the temple in that culture and Jesus taught the elders in the temple as a 12 year old boy when he was mistakenly left behind and later as a man. Your assumption that Jesus "was a girl" is based on the idea that people back then were incapable of distinguishing a girl from a boy, no matter how well they were disguised, which again was forbidden. It's just absurdity on top of absurdity on top of absurdity, etc...ad infinitum for you to "think" that Jesus was a female. He lived with his disciples, bathed with them, ate with them, and went to sleep at night around them, and if all of those other things had failed to prove that Jesus was really a man, they would have known that he was a man. Finally, he was crucified naked on the cross and only had a loincloth put over his genitals to give him that little bit of modesty and for others benefit as well, but before that happened, the truth would have been revealed again to all (not to mention that only Jewish men were crucified by the Romans and Jewish female criminals sentenced to death by other means, such as stoning, since crucifixion was too much for women and almost too much for men, and not the only means that the Romans had of dealing with people, making women sex slaves if nothing else, the same as women sex slaves today). Ancient Israel wasn't a Yentl accommodating environment where sexual assimilation was achieved as easily as in that movie or at all and it is your falsely assuming that it was to say that Mary did that with Jesus. The Pharisees belittled and demeaned Jesus by calling him "a glutton and a winebibber and the friend of harlots and tax collectors" and saying that he "cast out devils by the prince of devils Beelzebub" and you and other people here and in the world try to belittle and demean him by saying that "he was a transgender", to undermine his dignity and authority, but both they and you are speaking without any verification of your statements.
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Rev'd Andrew
Dear John, You make some excellent points which do indeed point to a very different conclusion to the one I had originally proposed. There is of course no way that a female Jesus could have been transgendered and mistaken for a man. However, neither could Jesus have the XY chromosomes necessary to be born a man without Mary being impregnated by a man. Since angels are eunuchs, it seems Joseph or some local stud was the father of Jesus after all.
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John D. Partin
Andrew, there are many very obvious reasons why Mary couldn't have been impregnated by another man and Jesus have been a "bastard". Adultery might be indulged in without any consequences here in this country and in our modern world, aside from an occasional irate husband, who gets a gun and kills his unfaithful wife and her lover or an irate wife who does the same to her unfaithful husband and mistress or just unforgiveness and animosity between spouses over that. Such wasn't the case in ancient Israel, where people took their lives in their hands every time that they committed or tried to commit adultery and could be seized by an angry mob of indignant judgmental people and dragged off and stoned to death!! If their lives were more important to them than any woman or man, they would, obviously, avoid such behavior as much as possible, and far more than we do today, and only very occasionally, and when their lusts overpowered them, have risked their lives for it. So, Mary wouldn't have indulged in adultery, being already betrothed to Joseph, for that reason. Also, if God hadn't cared what kind of woman gave birth to His Son, He didn't have to wait for and select Mary to be the mother, but could have selected just any woman at random for that purpose, even the most promiscuous and adulterous woman, but He did care about the quality of the woman who would be the mother and wanted a woman with self-control and virtue, and that woman was Mary. Her own morality, self-control, and virtue kept her from committing adultery with a man, and she wouldn't have done that, anymore than St. Maria Goretti would have given in to the wishes of the man who wanted to violate and have sex with her, but died by his hand rather than give up her purity at age 12, and forgave her attacker! A saint and follower of Mary's purity and example wouldn't have been more virtuous than Mary was and so Mary also would have died rather than give up her purity. Purity sounds "stupid" and like "a coverup for actual lustful and promiscuous behavior" to worldly people, who have no self-control and indulge in whatever they want and can get away with, and so judge everyone else by themselves, and so may appear that way to you, too, but thankfully God has a very different view of purity than you and other people do. He says "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God". Only a sinless and pure woman could have been the right mother for Jesus because an impure woman would have contaminated Jesus with her sin, and then Jesus would have been part of the problem, instead of part of the solution, and couldn't have been our Savior. What good would it have done for God to make a woman of low morals the mother of Jesus, which would have kept Jesus from being our Savior, and who might also have been stoned to death before she could even give birth to Jesus and we still wouldn't have a Savior?!! There isn't any sense in your ridiculing Jesus by calling him a "bastard", "transgender" or any other insult because of what some or many people have done "in his name" and that isn't fair or right! Those people who did all of those things that you and I and all reasonable, honest, and loving people hate weren't following Jesus' teachings and so he shouldn't be blamed and hated for what they did. God Who was able to give the first man XY chromosomes and DNA before they even existed and just came up with them as they were needed did it that same way for Jesus in the womb of Mary. A God who is limited to only what human beings could do to solve a problem wouldn't be any God at all, and He is God, as miracles happening everywhere around the world prove!! So, let God be God and be not faithless any longer, but believing!!
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Rev'd Andrew
Dear John, Your first explanation as to why you think Mary couldn't possibly have have given up "her purity" (the risk of being stoned to death) and therefore must have been a virgin is the very reason to not accept the claim that she got pregnant before her marriage with Joseph. For her to be a young teen and get pregnant before entering into Joseph's house as his wife would have caused your "angry mob of indignant judgmental people" to drag her off and punish her, especially after Joseph swore that he hadn't lain with her. Furthermore, there is no good reason for Mary to have been "sinless and pure". Jesus was supposed to carry the sins of the world, so what more fitting start than to be born a bastard? Why you consider this a "ridiculing" or "insulting" term I don't know: the virtues of a child are not dependent upon the circumstance of their birth. Indeed, this assertion regarding bastards and the transgendered strongly suggests that you may be one of the "indignant judgmental" folk who judge according to superficialities rather than character. Anyway, your explanation is wholly unconvincing: according to your claim, carrying a child outside of wedlock would have resulted in Mary being stoned to death. Mary is claimed to have carried Jesus outside of wedlock, so why wasn't she stoned to death?
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John D. Partin
Andrew, why don't you see any good reason for Mary's being sinless and pure, as an example to women and men, too, and so take the side of sinfulness and impurity? Because it's either one side or the other: for purity or against purity, and no fence-sitting actually, but only in people's lies to and games with themselves! Why are you implicitly or even explicitly on the side of Allesandro Serenetti, the rapist and murderer of St. Maria Goretti, and all other rapists, child molesters, pimps, sex slave traders, child pornographers, transgenders, drag queens, and all other people who are involved in any sort of impurity in this world?!! Why are you against women and men who want to keep their sexual morality and Godly standards and thinking in all of the flood of filth and perversions that you and many other people are going gleefully along with, following the teaching of God that you are ignoring which says "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind" and "Create in me a clean heart, O Lord, and renew a right spirit within me"?!! Going along with the ungodly world that transgenderism is "right" and "gay marriage is right" and all the rest of its perversions are "right" is your and all other "ministers" and "priests" who go along with that conforming to this world, which Scripture tells you not to do, and not being renewed in your mind, which Scripture tells you to do!! That is your telling people what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear, and letting the world lead you down into darkness and perversions, instead of your leading them out of all that and into the light of Christ!! You can't just make up "Christianity" and "minister" and "ministry" to suit yourself and other people and to be popular with them because that is just your playing games with yourself and them and not being honest with yourself or them!! You are blinded by the god of this world (Satan) and so won't let any of this get through to you or your Satanic masters, unseen by you, won't let any of it get through to or make any sense to you, so that they can keep your mind under their control, but I'm only required to tell you the truth and try to get through to you, and let the Holy Spirit do the actual work of touching your heart and reaching your mind and converting you through my words, and then have done all that I can do and am not required to succeed in reaching you. Jesus also knew that he wouldn't get through to the scribes and Pharisees and the moneychangers in the temple and that their blindness wouldn't let him succeed in getting through to them, the same as your blindness won't let me succeed in getting through to you!! But they wouldn't be able to say and you won't be able to say standing before God at the Judgment that nobody ever told you the truth or tried to reach you about this.
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Rev'd Andrew
Dear John, You didn't answer my question: why wasn't Mary stoned to death for being pregnant with a child that wasn't her betrothed's? I will gladly address your judgmental comments about adherence to so-called "sexual morality" once you have provided a logical answer to my simple question.
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John D. Partin
Andrew, my post in answer to your question before and today wasn't posted by ULC, and was much more in depth, but I will try again briefly now and see if they will post it this time. Joseph did, at first, deny that he had anything to do with Jesus, the same as Peter denied 3 times that he knew or was with Jesus, but later repented of that, as Peter did, when an angel told him not to be afraid to take Mary as his wife because the child in her womb was conceived by the Holy Spirit and so they were betrothed and married, and Joseph took Mary and Jesus to Egypt to get away from just such small minded people as yourself, who would "think" that "some man must have impregnated her" and not believe in or accept any possibility of God's having overshadowed her and giving her the child and to escape the decree of Herod that all children under 2 years old were to be killed, in his attempt to kill the Messiah who he thought was a threat to his earthly power. As for "being judgmental" just by telling you the actual requirements for a Christian minister and ministry, instead of your preference of making those up to suit yourself and other people, that can't possibly actually be judgmental or else nobody could ever be corrected and correctly informed about the requirements of their job or profession without the person who is telling them those actual requirements "being judgmental", according to you. When you aren't doing your secular job to the boss' requirements and after his repeatedly informing you of those requirements, you still aren't meeting those requirements and he fires you over it, you can think all that you want that he was "being judgmental" while you are driving or walking home and need to find another job!! "Minister" also has specific requirements and isn't just whatever you want to say that it is, to suit yourself and other people, and the main requirement is that you aren't just going along with the sins of the world and are speaking against them, since people already have people who will go along with their sins and encourage them in those sins called bartenders, adult movie theater operators, porn stars, prostitutes, call girl agencies, and others involved in worldly sin-promoting and indulging activities!! When the "church" and "ministers" are no different than all of them, there is no purpose for the "church" or "ministers" because all of that is already more than adequately covered!! You can say anything that you want to say in a free country, but you can't actually pass that off as being a real minister, but only in your self-deceit and other deceit. Real doctors don't make people physically sick or say that physical sickness is "actually good health" and real ministers don't make people spiritually sick or go along with spiritual sickness or say that spiritual sickness is "actually good spiritual health". Only false "doctors" and "ministers" do that!! That's just the truth and obvious common sense, not judgmentalism, but I already told you that your Satanic masters wouldn't let any of this get through to you and you are proving me right about that again!! Go on in your delusions, since you can't do anything else!!! By their fruits you will know them.
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John D. Partin
Andrew, your saying in your post above "adherence to 'so-called sexual morality'" is even more evidence of your not actually being a true minister, but only a panderer to popular immorality and the current propaganda and political correctness in support of all that, in order to be accepted by and popular with people. No actual minister thinks or says that sexual morality is only "so-called" because a true minister or priest believes in true sexual morality and not just some false version of it, to suit himself and others and be popular with our immoral society. If even those whose job and really sacred calling (not just a job, like any other) is to teach the rest of us about sexual morality and morality in all other areas don't really believe in sexual morality in truth and love themselves, they can't teach anyone else about it or give others what they don't even have themselves. That is and has always been Satan's strategy in dealing with priests and ministers and that is strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter! If he can't get rid of any kind of Christianity whatsoever in the world, he will settle for just your kind of "Christianity" being accepted and gaining ground more and more, in which "ministers and priests" don't even believe in sexual morality or morality truly in other areas themselves and so can't threaten the kingdom of darkness and his power over the world by teaching true morality to anyone. "Ministers and priests" who are actually his undercover agents in the Church and wolves in sheep's clothing and whited sepulchres for the purpose of leading people astray and down into Hell. Of course, he has trained people to laugh at that idea, so that they won't see the obvious logic of it from Satan's viewpoint and truth of it, and wake up from Satan's spell over them and be free! The ancient Greeks figured out to put a concealed enemy inside the city of Troy when they weren't being successful in defeating it in open battle and left the Trojan horse outside the city for the Trojans themselves to bring inside the city, and then, later that night, the Greeks hidden inside of it came out and opened the gates for the Greeks waiting outside and destroyed Troy and killed everyone there. The Communists put false priests and ministers into the Catholic and other churches to destroy them from within. Jesus Christ only said that the gates of Hell wouldn't prevail against the church, but didn't say that Hell wouldn't prevail from within the church and what we have taken inside of it to destroy it. So, he has put many Trojan horses inside the Church to try to destroy it from within by devils and demons coming out of them because what ancient Greeks and Communists can figure out to defeat their enemies, he can figure out even better to defeat his enemy the Church!!
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Rev'd Andrew
So now you resort to ad hominem: "small minded people as yourself". I don't waste my time with people who are unable to discuss a topic without resorting to personal attacks.
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John D. Partin
Once again, telling you the truth about yourself isn't "ad hominem" or "personal attacks", which are just more of your evasiveness, anymore than telling you the actual requirements for being a minister is "being judgmental". Otherwise, nobody could ever tell anyone else the truth about himself or herself without talking "ad hominem" or "making personal attacks", which is ridiculous!! Jesus made those same "ad hominem" comments and "personal attacks" on the scribes and Pharisees and moneychangers when he told them the truth about themselves, just as I told you the truth about yourself, since he is our example. You are small minded because you narrow-mindedly "think" that only Mary's having sex with another man could account for her having a child out of wedlock and make no allowance for the power of God and the Holy Spirit's overshadowing her and causing the child to be conceived in her womb. Besides, Joseph didn't expose her merely apparent "shame" because he was visited by an angel who told him not to be ashamed to take Mary as his wife, since her child was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Your not wanting to discuss this topic with me is because you can't deal with the truth or answer my questions and points, not because of these smokescreen excuses. If you don't ever want to read the truth about yourself in here, don't post anything more here and nobody will see clearly the truth about you and tell you that truth. Here is more truth that you won't want to read and that is that your comment in your post above "about adherence to so-called 'sexual morality'", proves that you aren't a true minister, since a true minister doesn't put sexual morality in quotation marks and consider it fictional. Obviously, you can't teach true sexual and other morality to anyone, instead of some false version of it that you make up to suit yourself and others and that calls perversions "moral and good things", without knowing them yourself!!
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Rev'd Andrew
John, contrary to your over-inflated sense of self-importance, you are not the arbiter of truth. Far from it. You have the gall to liken your opinions to those of the the Christ, and condemn those who don't adhere to your narrow-minded interpretation of scripture as sinners and not "Christian". To call bartenders out as "encouragers of sin" is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in a long time. To use your logic, Jesus "encouraged sin" when he was at the wedding in Cana.
That you require Mary to have been a virgin is the small-minded view. Indeed, for the first 300 or so years of Christianity Mary wasn't considered a virgin. So, I'll align with the Apostles and not require the "overshadowing" of Mary by God to believe in the holiness of Jesus.
As for your so-called "sexual morality": judgmental puritans have plagued the church throughout its history. They tend to be like you, wishing to impose cherry-picked restrictions on others. Thankfully Jesus came with a message of love, not condemnation. You should try reading His message some day.
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John D. Partin
Andrew, once again, you are making that same mistake because your "thinking" is stuck in that rut of self-justification and so keeps going back to it, involuntarily, under your Satanic Masters' control, and couldn't not do it, if you tried, and they make sure that you never try!! Expounding to you on the truth of Christ isn't my "over-inflated sense of self-importance" or trying to be "the arbiter of truth" or "likening my opinions to those of Christ" or any other evasions that you want to toss out as smokescreens of the truth that you can't deal with or answer my questions and points or else nobody could ever expound on his truth without all of that being true, which is just ridiculous and an admission of your inability, insecurity, and immaturity!! Jesus Christ himself said that the way of following him and to the Kingdom of God is narrow, while those who follow your broad way of going along with sin aren't his followers or on the way to Heaven. "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" (Matthew 7:13-14). So, go and argue with Jesus that his way isn't narrow and that you, in your actually over-inflated sense of your own importance, know more about it than he does, and call him "narrow-minded", since that is what you are doing already!! Bartenders and liquor stores only care about selling their drinks and liquor, and not about the consequences of their doing that, to alcoholics, in cirrhosis of the liver and other alcohol related diseases, drunk driving and fatalities or injuries from that, broken homes, domestic and child abuse, bar fights and shootings and murders, and everything else that follows along from those drinks and bottles, like the evils that came out of Pandora's box!! Yes, that makes them encouragers and contributors to the sin in the world, as all honest and reasonable people can see and will admit, which obviously leaves out, since you aren't honest or reasonable!! Jesus' one time attendance at the wedding feast of Cana clearly doesn't put him in the same category as these constant encouragers and contributors to sin all around the world, since the sins they assisted continue after the bars and liquor stores close until they open back up and it starts all over again!! The Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus to lead us into all truth and so, quite obviously, we didn't already have all truth known to the Apostles or He wouldn't need to lead us into it. Mary's purity and perpetual virginity were part of that truth that people needed to be led into, when they were prepared to receive it. God has always dealt that way with His people and led them from truth to truth, as they were prepared to receive it. Jesus Christ couldn't have come in Moses' or Abraham's time because they weren't prepared to receive him then, but were prepared to receive him when he finally came or as prepared as they were ever going to be. God doesn't give all truth to people all at once, but in small doses. There is a progressive revelation and before you jump on that, as the Devil in you and the world is always looking for an opportunity to do to "justify" sin and get people to accept and go along with it, that progressive revelation isn't the attempt by you and others to try to pass transgenderism and homosexuality off as "moral" activities. Later revelations can't totally contradict previous revelation, anymore than advanced mathematics in trigonometry and algebra totally dismiss and contradict basic mathematics. God doesn't change His truth and laws just to go along with people and be popular with them, as you do. All sexual morality isn't invalidated because of extremists, such as the Puritans. That is ridiculous and more of your listening to your Satanic masters kicking in!! This truth in Scripture isn't from the Puritans, but from God. "Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people ---- none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) and "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths" (2 Timothy 4:3).
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Rev'd Andrew
Such arrogance, John! You believe yourself to be the arbiter of truth, that your interpretation of the words of the Christ are the absolute truth, and that anyone who disagrees is controlled by Satan! You obviously missed the parts in the Bible about humility (among countless others). What is even more amusing is that you call Puritans "extremists" while failing to view yourself as one. You even go so far as to denounce bartenders as sinners and imply that they are promoters of such extreme behavior as abuse and child molestation, while forgetting that God is supposed to have given us all free will. You then come up with the weakest of arguments to exclude Jesus from your judgmental hatefulness by claiming that since he only turned water into wine at one wedding so it doesn't count. It would behoove you, and those around you, to be honest about your motivations. You aren't at all interested in bringing people to God. You enjoy condemning others and accusing them of being sinful agents of Satan, presumably to deflect from your own gross deficiencies and deviancies. That is very sad. God is graceful and forgives you. His love is limitless, which means he can love you and everyone else too! His love isn't like pie: someone else getting his love doesn't mean you are loved less! So, please, stop spewing your hatefulness. Stop misrepresenting God's love. And seek a good counsellor the help you deal with whatever demons your are hiding while you condemn others.
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John D. Partin
You don't even see anything wrong with the more perverted sins of men dressing up as "women" and even showing fake bare breasts and bottoms to children in churches and so, of course, don't see anything wrong with the regular sin of bartenders' contribution to the sinning of the world and pouring their drinks down people's throats as long as they keep paying and don't care about any consequences of their doing that!! Because your moral compass is totally broken, if it was ever working at all or you have just been bought off and compromising your whole life!! Jesus knew that there was nothing wrong with moderation in drinking wine or he wouldn't have turned the water into wine. Projecting onto me and other people that we are "under Satanic control" because we correctly state that about you is just more childish deflection by you and what the Nazis and Communists and other people did when that was pointed out to them!! God's limitless love for people doesn't extend to their sins and He still requires them to repent of their sins before forgiving them and won't force His forgiveness on people who don't even want or think that they need it. That is His respect for our free will! We can have it our way, but there is a price for having it our way. Stop misrepresenting God's love as loving people's sins, too, which is blasphemy and what Satan wants people to believe about God and we will stop saying and knowing that you are under Satanic control!! Your calling me an "extremist", considering your own extremism in going along with the perversions of the world just to be accepted by some people and popular with them, is really the biggest joke of all!! Figure your own self out and remove the beam from your own eye before you say that I or anyone else is an "extremist" and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye!!
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Rev'd Andrew
John, you've gone from simple ad hominin, through childish name-calling, to branding me a Nazi! How typical of a small-minded, uneducated, literalist you are. Your arrogance in claiming that you know that there are things that God can't do is incredible. Talk about blasphemy! God is ALL powerful. God can do ANYTHING. Yet you so desperately want God to be in YOUR image, so you have created a petty-minded god who condemns people who live out the deep sexual desires you are so desperate to suppress in your own self. You sound just like the hellfire and brimstone Baptist preacher who condemns homosexuals from the pulpit on Sundays while paying for sex with male prostitutes during the week. As Shakespeare wrote: "The lady doth protest too much."
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John D. Partin
It's not branding you as a Nazi to say that you, the same as them and all other people, try to turn accusations of their being under Satanic control back again on their accusers, as you are doing and that Nazis and others also did. You have made "God" after your image, to make your idol support transgenderism and anything else that you want it to support, by ignoring, reinterpreting, and cherry picking Scriptures, and that is idolatry and blasphemy, putting your will above the will of God!!! God is limited by God and can't go against Himself and that is what God can't do, such as not violating free will and forcing forgiveness on people who don't want or think that they need it, without their first repenting of their sins and asking for forgiveness. That is one thing that even God can't do or won't do and the limitation of His power. That isn't blasphemy, but truth and logic. Without repentance, people are on their way, by their own choice, to the place for unrepentant people.
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Rev'd Andrew
Wrong again, John. You are a petulant child screaming "NAZI" at anyone who disagrees with your hateful and bigotted view of people you so desperately want to not be like. And the blasphemer is you. You claim that God isn't all-powerful. Blasphemy is the ONLY sin that is unforgivable. You'd better hope that God gives you a pass for being ignorant, otherwise you may as well call it quits now.
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John D. Partin
It is you who are the petulant child and bigot here, saying that I'm being "bigoted, hateful, and not wanting to be like you" just because of telling you the truth of God's word, since you hate His word, unless you can twist it and reinterpret it to make it "support" your perversions! The devil in you quotes Scripture for his purpose. You send in such hysterical and frantic posts as your post here because you have no calm, objective, and Biblical arguments for your views and so just hope to "win" through emotional outbursts, banging your head on the floor, holding your breath, and other such childish tactics when people aren't agreeing with you and are pointing out your wrongs and illogic and ungodliness to you!! We understand and know that you don't know any better than to do that and so just have to make allowances for your immaturity. God can't go against Himself and that is the limitation of His power and so won't overrule free will in people and forgive them when they don't want or think that they need to be forgiven, and will respect their choice to go where unrepentence takes them. That isn't blasphemy, but just God being restricted by Himself and not going against His own law. As usual, you have everything upside down, backwards, and inside out and need to hope that God gives you a pass for being ignorant or you may as well call it quits right now and follow your own advice that you wrongly give to me. All your pretence that you are "intellectually superior" to me and "more knowledgeable about the Bible" went flying out the window when you said that "there is no Hell and homosexuality isn't a sin" and didn't even know or agree with the Bible verses stating that there is a Hell and that homosexuality is a sin. You have further proved by doing so that you are under Satanic control and are a Satanist, just hiding behind "being a Christian" to make Jesus "support" your perversions! You agree with the statement in The Satanic Bible which says "There is no Hell where sinners roast". You stand exposed as a person who is ignorant of Scripture, except when it suits you, and a fraud!! Come out of your closet and admit your Satanism and Satanic control and just drop your pretence of "being a Christian" and openly join the other Satanists and atheists in this blog, since you agree with them, anyway, in your heart, and be honest about yourself, for a change!!
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Rev'd Andrew
Here you go again, Johnny. Parroting because you don't have the imagination to develop your own ideas, thoughts, or responses. Thankfully God still loves you, and hopefully will ignore your blasphemy since it is grounded in such deep ignorance.
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John D. Partin
It is your narcissism and egotism that make you "think" that you own the English language and that words and phrases belong exclusively to you that make you say that you are being "parroted". Unless you are saying about yourself that you are a fraud and whited sepulchre and false apostle and Satan appearing as an angel of light and wolf in sheep's clothing, as I have said about you, I'm clearly not parroting you, but giving you my original and honest thoughts about you. You also aren't saying that Mary's purity and perpetual virginity were part of God's progressive revelation and other things that I have said to you here, which are more evidence that your charge of my "parroting" you and "not being original" are baseless on your part!! It is actually blasphemy for you to say that God condones and approves of perversions that he doesn't condone or approve of!!
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John D. Partin
Andrew, Mary's purity and perpetual virginity were part of God's progressive revelation to His people when they were ready for it, which the Apostles weren't. God doesn't reveal all truth to people at once, but only as they can receive it.
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Rev'd Andrew
Mary's "purity and perpetual virginity" were contrivances by the Ecumenical Council in Ephesus designed to align Christianity with the prevailing cult of Artemis. A little contextual knowledge goes a long way, John.
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John D. Partin
Andrew, since God can even bring good out of the great evil of the Holocaust through the formation of the State of Israel and out of other evils, He can also bring the truth out of the Ecumenical Council in Ephesus to contradict the false prevailing cult of Artemis and show Mary as the true Queen of Heaven!! It just doesn't matter how it happened, anymore than it matters any other time how the truth and right prevail over lies and wrong, as long as they do!! God works out His will, no matter what obstacles Satan and his slaves put in His way in their vain belief that they can prevent God from doing that! Your not seeing and admitting that and going along with their false view are still more evidence that you are really under Satanic control, no matter how much or vehemently you may deny it!! You also prove it by agreeing with Anton Szandor LaVey (former deceased High Priest of The Church of Satan) and his rationale of "turning a bad thing into a good thing, instead of bending over backwards to eliminate the bad thing" in The Satanic Bible, as you are doing in trying to turn the evil thing transgenderism into a "good" thing! Your indifference to and hatred of sexual morality is still more evidence of your being under Satanic control, since only those who are under that control are indifferent to or hate sexual morality, and your and others' similar view opens the door for just such attacks on innocence as happened to St. Maria Goretti and all other rapes and molestations and victimizations of children and other people and it is totally unrealistic of you and other people to think that that won't follow from your views!!
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Rev'd Andrew
The creation of Israel has yet to be proven to be a 'good'. Certainly, until Israel abandons its evil use of apartheid, it cannot even be considered a "good". Funny how you are so desperate to believe the lie that Mary was a virgin that you come up with such a feeble rationalization in an attempt to protect it against the clear facts. Yet another example of your close-mindedness and lack of education and knowledge about the historical context of the development of Christianity.
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John D. Partin
That Israel isn't perfect and has made many mistakes I knew already before I knew anything else about it and didn't need to wait for you to tell me that. If any state government in the world were required to be perfect in order to exist, no government could exist, but is Israel, despite its faults, better than the alternative of Jews continuing to be exterminated under Hitler or being driven into the sea by Palestinians and Islamic extremists? Yes! Some of that seeming "apartheid" could certainly be due to its being surrounded by enemies and so needing to practice separation in its population for its security. Are its enemies without any faults or mistakes of their own? You know as well as I do that that isn't true. Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone. It isn't desperation to show that Mary is the Queen of Heaven on my part, but only telling the truth about her. Artemis' being falsely considered "the Queen of Heaven" by confused and misled Pagans didn't actually make her the Queen of Heaven. There have always been pretenders to the throne in history, but their false claims were disproved when the true and rightful claimants to the throne showed up and presented their bona fides and credentials, and that is what happened with Mary's being proclaimed the true Queen of Heaven!! It is your closed-mindedness against Christianity and lack of education about it that keep you from seeing and admitting that and going on with your very feeble rationalization against the truth. Mary was, quite clearly, a virgin, since she was too moral and virtuous to violate her vow to God and wouldn't have risked death by stoning for committing adultery.
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Rev'd Andrew
Thank you for making me laugh, Johnny-boy! What a truly silly response! Not ONCE did I call Artemis "the queen of heaven". Why would I? The Greeks didn't either. It is hilarious that you idol-worship Mary as "queen of heaven" though. Now you are breaking one of the 10 Commandments as well as being a blasphemer. As for Israel: the formation of Israel was 3 years AFTER the defeat of Hitler, so the creation of Israel didn't prevent "Jews continuing to be exterminated by Hitler." Your grasp of history is as bad as your grasp of Christianity - superficial and wrong.
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John D. Partin
Mary's being the Queen of Heaven doesn't make her God or a goddess and so isn't a violation of the commandment not to have other gods before God. We don't worship Mary, which is reserved for God alone. We couldn't stay on Jesus' good side if we didn't honor his mother, even less than we stay on any other son's good side and not honor his mother. In my fictional premise of Israel's not needing to exist and not existing, I assumed also fictionally that Nazi Germany still was around and hadn't lost the war and so was continuing to kill Jews and others, unknown to the world, necessitating the state of Israel, and know that that was way over your head, yet again. It is ridiculous for you to talk about my or anyone else's having a bad grasp of Christianity, considering your own support for transgenderism and homosexuality, which are condemned by Scripture and traditional Church teaching!! Nobody could have a worse grasp of Christianity than you do with your beliefs about it!! So, by your own estimation, you are superficial and wrong! You don't have any idea about what is actually funny when you can think and say your ridiculous thoughts to yourself and other people and not be laughing at yourself every waking hour from morning to night every day!! Obviously, other sources have called Artemis the Pagan "Queen of Heaven", since this blog isn't the only source of information about Pagan beliefs. Try The Two Babylon's by Alexander Hislop from even the non-Catholic point of view.
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Rev'd Andrew
John, you were simply wrong. You never said you created some bizarre fiction regarding Israel and the holocaust. Now you are back-pedaling, trying to rationalize your ignorance of basic historical facts. Simply put, you have a lot of learning to do both about recent history and biblical context. Until you read and comprehend a lot more, your posts are going to remain comedic rants.
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John D. Partin
It is obvious from the context of my post that it was a fictional account because Jews weren't continuing to be exterminated under Hitler and so I could only be talking imaginatively. Your not understanding nuances of language and your being a literalist and not knowing what every other sensible and logical person would know about it, and stupidly calling it "back-pedaling" isn't my fault and I can't sophisticate and educate you here. Of course, I knew that Israel was formed in 1948. Your telling me or anyone else that I or they have "a lot of learning to do about Biblical context", considering your own denial of Hell and that homosexuality is a sin, despite the Bible's clearly stating that there is a Hell and that homosexuality is a sin is just the biggest joke of all in here!! Follow your own advice to me and actually read and accept the teachings of Scripture in their entirety, and not just your cherry picked, revised, and ignored version of it, because we already know what it really says!! Go and learn it yourself!!
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John D. Partin
Andrew, all sexual morality isn't invalidated because of extremists, such as the Puritans, which is ridiculous for you to say and more of your listening to your Satanic masters kicking in! We couldn't do without any sexual morality at all or only your false "morality" because "Puritans ruined morality for everyone else", according to you!! Keep consulting your demons and masters there because they have led you so well up to now, right?!!!
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Rev'd Andrew
John, trying engaging in a discussion without resorting to childish and ridiculous accusations of being controlled by "Satanic masters".
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John D. Partin
It's not childish and ridiculous when it's true, as it was about the Pharisees and is about you!!
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Rev'd Andrew
No, John. You are being extremely childish, covering up your ignorance and lack of understanding by hurling pathetic insults. You are a classic example of a ChINO: a Christian in Name Only.
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John D. Partin
Andrew, it is you who are being childish and ignorant and a ChINO and not following Jesus' teachings and Christian Church teachings because Jesus never told any sinners to "Go out and keep on sinning!" or said that any sin wasn't a sin, but said "Go and sin no more". He didn't know that he had to consult with you or people back then who "thought" like you before he made any statement and get it cleared with them first. You "think" that anyone who disagrees with you is "ignorant", "childish", and "ChINO" and that only you and other homophilic and transgender-philic bigots, such as yourself, are "enlightened" and "educated" and thereby prove your own bigotry. There isn't only bigotry against gays and transgenders, but also bigotry for gays and transgenders, and it is your one-sided bigotry that keeps you from seeing and admitting that. It is your homophilic and transgender-philic bigotry that makes you "think" that any Baptist or other preachers who preach against homosexuality on Sunday morning must be "paying for sex with male prostitutes during the week". You are again echoing Anton Szandor LaVey and proving yourself to be "thinking" the same as he did when he made the bigoted statement that he saw men praying for forgiveness and deliverance in tent show evangelists' meetings on Sunday mornings at one end of a carnival lot, but next Saturday saw those same men in burlesque shows or some other place of indulgence, and knew then that "the Christian Church thrives on hypocrisy and that man's carnal nature will out!". Your also going along with man's carnal nature over his spiritual heart in being in favor of transgenderism make you also under Satanic control, the same as he was. You have created "God" in your own image and made your false "God" go along with transgenderism, homosexuality, gay marriages, and anything else that you want "Him" to go along with, like a ventriloquist's dummy sitting on your lap and being your "spokesman" and manipulated by you and your ilk!! That makes you the blasphemer and idolater, creating your false "God" after your image and worshipping it!! We are only telling you and everyone God's actual words in Scripture, and not twisting them and cherry picking them to make them say what we want them to say, as you are doing!! Get rid of your own bigotry and ignorance and fix your "thinking" first before commenting on anyone else's "bigotry and ignorance", from your twisted point of view, and remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
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Rev'd Andrew
Enough of the gay-bashing, John. Come out of the closet. God loves you, whether you are gay, straight, or trans. Let the hatred for your brothers and sisters in Christ go, and try giving love a chance. Starting with yourself. God has already forgiven you for your bigotted hatefulness.
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John D. Partin
It is more evidence of your homophilic bigotry to assume that anyone who condemns homosexuality "must be a closet gay" and more of your childishness and illogic. There isn't any hatred for any people in condemning their sins, but there is hatred for people in accepting and going along with their sins. God doesn't have to forgive us for going along with His teachings for us because that is what He wants and needs us to do. There isn't any gay bashing in telling gay people the truth. It's actually gay bashing to tell them that they aren't doing anything wrong. Come out of the closet of your Satanism and Satanic control and stop pretending to believe in Jesus, just so that you can get him to "support" your Satanic masters' agenda.
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Rev'd Andrew
You're repeating yourself, and your misunderstanding of God's love and grace. May God open your eyes to the truth.
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John D. Partin
God's love and grace don't extend to unrepented sin. Repentance is our acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. May God open your eyes to the truth.
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John D. Partin
Only you actual homophilic bigots consider merely stating the truth of God's word against homosexuality to be "bigotry", but God will forgive you for your ignorance and sin of bigotry against Him as soon as you repent of it and ask for His forgiveness. So, please do that now and stop falsely ascribing your sins and guilt to other people, which is a sin, too
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John D. Partin
Andrew, you are making the same mistake as before and assuming that my expounding on the truth of Christ is my "over-inflated sense of self-importance", being "the arbiter of truth", and "having the gall to liken my opinions to those of Christ", and any other smokescreens that you can toss out to cover the truth that you can't deal with that true exposition or answer my questions and points. Nobody again could ever expound on the teachings of Christ truly, if all of that nonsense were true of me or anyone else who did so.
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Rev'd Andrew
I agree that "no one can expound on the teaching of Christ truly". This is why your quoting Paul is meaningless, especially since Paul didn't even know Jesus. In Paul's letters to the Corinthians he was appealing to the congregation according to his understanding of what he had heard. He was not speaking from direct knowledge of Jesus' words, and he was speaking as a reformed Jew attempting to understand for himself what grace means. So his condemnation of the sexual practices of the Christians of Corinth is based on his own Jewish morality, not that of the Christ. Your lack of historical contextual comprehension is blinding you.
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John D. Partin
Andrew, your "profound" telling me that Paul came into the Faith from his own background as a reformed Jew and with his own ideas about practicing Christianity based on his own Jewish morality and never physically met Jesus, of course, "changes the whole matter" and raises immediately the question "So what?"!! Peter was also a reformed Jew, as were the other eleven disciples, and the seventy others, and Mary Magdalene, and everyone else who followed after Jesus, from the moment that they started following him, since following him made them no longer conventional and regular Jews, who didn't follow him. If we don't dismiss all of these other people as "just reformed Jews, not true followers of Christ", why should we do that to Paul, either? So what if he never physically met Jesus? If the requirement for actually being a Christian were to have physically met and spoke with Jesus in person, nobody other than his disciples and these other people who followed him could actually be a Christian and Christianity would have died out when those people died, but Christianity is a spiritual religion and puts the spirit above the flesh, unlike you and other people here and in the world who put the flesh above the spirit or just dismiss the spirit altogether, except in your own corrupt and self-serving definition of it! So, Paul did meet Jesus on the road to Damascus and when he was caught up into the third heaven, and those count as meetings with Jesus as much as physical meetings do. Jesus told his disciples to go and make disciples of all nations, none of which would have personally met or spoke with Jesus, but were as much followers of him as those who had. Everyone who has ever come into Christianity came into it with their own baggage and ideas from their life before and God still worked through all of that to spread His message in the world and have people love each other. Besides which, Jesus himself was the first reformed Jew and isn't discounted because of that or his religion dismissed over it, and shared Paul's views about sexual morality, since that was in the law and Jesus said that "not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away until all be fulfilled", but just didn't see the need to belabor the obvious, which all Jews knew, anyway. Your own lack of historical contextual comprehension didn't allow you to consider again those facts, as with your now admittedly wrong conclusion that Jesus was "really a female to male trans". If just telling people obvious truth and common sense could make them change their minds and give up wrong thinking and actions, the world would have reformed long ago and wouldn't be doing everything that it is doing now, but Satan hasn't made it that easy, since he doesn't want the world to ever reform and wants it to keep getting worse and worse!! So, he has encouraged rationalization and self-justification in people, and helped them along with that, and given them plenty of "historical contextual comprehensions" and other evasions and games to hide behind, and all of that has to be waded through and dealt with before they can be gotten through to, only to find still more to go through when we get through all of that!! All of that is what is blinding you!!
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Rev'd Andrew
What a great way to expose, once again, your complete lack of knowledge about the life of St Paul. That you consider Paul equivalent in his "reformation" as "the other 11 disciples" says it all. You are a baby ChINO who knows enough to be dangerous, and are too arrogant to recognize that your lack of any depth of understanding of Christianity causes you to draw false conclusions. I pray that you will go and read, a lot, and improve your knowledge and understanding before you try and engage with anyone else about to tell them what they can and cannot do, think, or say as Christians.
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John D. Partin
You expose your incredible lack of education and understanding about actual Christianity every time that you post in here and express support for transgenderism and homosexuality even in the Church, since nothing could be more ignorant than that for you or anyone else to say!! Since you are so confused and insane about that, you couldn't possibly be right about any of your other beliefs about St. Paul or anything else!! And it's a waste of my time and casting more pearls in front of pigs trying to get that through to you!! Go on in your delusion that you are "a good Christian", which is all that your Satanic masters will let you do, when everyone and even you, really inside, know that you aren't, but can't admit it, to save face.
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Rev'd Andrew
The fact is, John, that St Paul wasn't one of the 12 disciples. That you don't even know that shows how little you know about the faith you profess. Read, learn, pray. God deserves better from you.
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John D. Partin
Nobody has less understanding of any depth of Christianity than you do, since you believe that perversions, such as transgenderism, are compatible with Christian renunciation of sin, which are just obviously mutually contradictory and denied by holy Scripture, and believe that perversions stop being perversions, if you just say that they aren't. Though there are many people in this blog and world who agree with you and are just as stupid as you are! Sin is sin, as you say, and reformation is reformation, though people go about it by different routes and are different when they get there. So, Paul's reformation and the reformation of the disciples were different and achieved differently, but still both reformations. You take your own advice and go read the laws against homosexuality in Old and New Testaments before you try and engage with anyone who knows that you are full of s**t when you say that perversions are compatible with renunciation of sins in Christianity, which we and you really, too, know is idiotic nonsense!!
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Rev'd Andrew
Homosexuality isn't a perversion, John. Why would God enable men to reach orgasm through anal penetration if he didn't condone it? If you actually understood the context of Paul's Letters you'd understand that he was warning early Christians away from Greek and Roman temple prostitutes as that was a pagan form of worship. You have a lot to learn!
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John D. Partin
Men's being able to reach orgasm through anal penetration of other men doesn't prove at all that God condones it and that is ridiculous for you to say because men can also reach orgasm through anal penetration of young boys and girls and even sheep and other animals, which, by your "logic", would also mean that "God condones and approves of pedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia, sex with sex dolls, and all other means of reaching orgasm", which is just sick and perverted and would make God as sick and perverted as you and all other people who believe and practice that are!! You sound like that very sick sexologist Alfred Kinsey, who said "The only unnatural sex act is that which you cannot perform"!! Sexual relations between two men or two women weren't and aren't only wrong in Greek and Roman temple worship, but were and are wrong anywhere or else we open the door for all of these other perversions because sin won't go only as far as you or other people want it to go, but will continue on and on into all of this sickness, the same as drug use keeps leading to more and more high-inducing drugs!! Sex can be like a drug and people wanting wilder and bigger highs from it, and going into all of these perversions. Satan, the same as a drug dealer, entices people into "just a little harmless adultery" or some other sin, and then keeps luring them into more and more and pushing the envelope, to see how far astray he can lead them, like the Pied Piper of Hamelin leading the rats out of the town to drown in the sea!!! He has trained people to laugh at just such warning and common sense as I'm trying to give you here, so that you won't wake up and come out from under his spell and control over you!! You have a lot to learn and need a lot of therapy to come out of your condition, too!!
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Rev'd Andrew
What a silly response, Johnny! It's not about penetrat-ING but being penetrat-ED. God created men with the ability to orgasm while BEING anally-penetrated. That is, he designed and created pleasure-receptors inside the rectum that get stimulated during anal sex. So it seems God WANTS you to enjoy being anally-penetrated. Far from a "sin", God designed you to enjoy homosexual sex. Are you saying God made a mistake?
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John D. Partin
Your condition doesn't allow you to even see your own overwhelming silliness and stupidity in your statements here and so you have just no ability to see them in anyone else, except in your distorted view. "Being penetrat-ED" makes no more difference than "penetrat-ING" or "look-ING at anl sex" or any other evasions that you can come up with because God doesn't create and maintain His moral order to suit human perversions and distortions of nature and natural functions in people's bodies, and anl sex between men, giving or receiving, is still immoral. God didn't make a mistake, but people made a mistake in jumping to conclusions about God's making us as He made us, to suit their own desires. There has to be a higher standard than just whatever everyone comes up with for himself or herself for morality or the door is opened for all of the perversions in the world because people only care about what they want and don't care about the consequences of their actions and "thinking" upon the larger society and world. You reject sexual morality because you don't want anything getting in the way of what you and other people want to do, and that has always been the real reason for people's rejection of sexual morality. It is more evidence of your condition that you are still assuming that anyone who condemns homosexuality "must be a closet gay", which you just did in your post again by saying "God designed you to enjoy homosexual sex" and aren't honest or well enough to admit that you did. Sin doesn't stop being sin because some or many people say that "it isn't sin", since God decides what is sin, not people, and truth and morals aren't decided by popularity polls. This has been still more pearls thrown in front of pigs telling you this again because your condition, and deadened conscience, and immoral indoctrination, and self-interest won't allow you to understand or agree with anything that I'm telling you, but I'm not required to convince you, anymore than Jesus could convince the scribes and Pharisees or moneychangers in the temple or John the Baptist could convince Herod Antipas, and am only required to tell you the truth and leave convincing you up to the Holy Spirit, since I will have done all that I can do!! And you can go on in your delusions that supporting perversions is "the same thing as following Jesus Christ, who told all sinners to 'Go and sin no more'" and that just your saying that a sin "isn't a sin makes it no longer a sin" and lying to yourself and other people as much as you want and that you and they can stand, just as your predecessors, the Pharisees, lied to themselves all of their lives, and follow their unholy example!!
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John D. Partin
Your condition doesn't allow you to even see your own overwhelming silliness and stupidity in your statements here and so you have just no ability to see them in anyone else, except in your distorted view. "Being penetrat-ED" makes no more difference than "penetrat-ING" or "look-ING at anal sex" or any other evasions that you can come up with because God doesn't create and maintain His moral order to suit human perversions and distortions of nature and natural functions in people's bodies, and anal sex between men, giving or receiving, is still immoral. God didn't make a mistake, but people made a mistake in jumping to conclusions about God's making us as He made us, to suit their own desires. There has to be a higher standard than just whatever everyone comes up with for himself or herself for morality or the door is opened for all of the perversions in the world because people only care about what they want and don't care about the consequences of their actions and "thinking" upon the larger society and world. You reject sexual morality because you don't want anything getting in the way of what you and other people want to do, and that has always been the real reason for people's rejection of sexual morality. It is more evidence of your condition that you are still assuming that anyone who condemns homosexuality "must be a closet gay", which you just did in your post again by saying "God designed you to enjoy homosexual sex" and aren't honest or well enough to admit that you did. Sin doesn't stop being sin because some or many people say that "it isn't sin", since God decides what is sin, not people, and truth and morals aren't decided by popularity polls. This has been still more pearls thrown in front of pigs telling you this again because your condition, and deadened conscience, and immoral indoctrination, and self-interest won't allow you to understand or agree with anything that I'm telling you, but I'm not required to convince you, anymore than Jesus could convince the scribes and Pharisees or moneychangers in the temple or John the Baptist could convince Herod Antipas, and am only required to tell you the truth and leave convincing you up to the Holy Spirit, since I will have done all that I can do!! And you can go on in your delusions that supporting perversions is "the same thing as following Jesus Christ, who told all sinners to 'Go and sin no more'" and that just your saying that a sin "isn't a sin makes it no longer a sin" and lying to yourself and other people as much as you want and that you and they can stand, just as your predecessors, the Pharisees, lied to themselves all of their lives, and follow their unholy example!!
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John D. Partin
From What Does The Bible Say About Homosexuality?: Answering Gay Revisionist Theology by Focus on the Family. Revisionist Argument: Jesus never taught against homosexuality or lesbianism. In fact, He was silent on the issue. Response #1: As (Stanley) Grenz writes: Arguments from silence are notoriously difficult to substantiate. We might just as easily conclude that other acts about which Jesus was silent were equally unimportant to the Master. For example, does His silence about incest mean that we are no longer bound to the Old Testament prohibitions in this area? There is a much simpler and more obvious explanation for Jesus' silence. It was not a controversial issue of that period. It was a settled issue in Israel that homosexual behavior was a sin, so Jesus was not asked about it. Response #2: Jesus is the Son of God; He is the living Word, God made flesh. The revisionist argument assumes that Jesus somehow might have had a different view of homosexuality from that which was made clear to God's people in the Old Testament. Jesus is one with the Father, and the Spirit, and the same Holy Spirit inspired all the authors of Scripture. Jesus kept and affirmed all that the Law and the Prophets said (Matthew 5:17-19). Response #3: Jesus said everything that needed to be said on the subject of sexual ethics when He quoted Genesis in response to the Pharisees' question about divorce: He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?. So they are no longer two but one flesh'. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate." (Matthew 19:4-6). In other words, Jesus explicitly endorsed the Christian sexual ethic outlined earlier in this booklet. As Grenz affirms: But nowhere did (Jesus) condone genital sexual activity outside the context of a lifelong heterosexual commitment. In fact, the only option He mentioned other than marriage was celibacy (Matthew 19:11-12). Moreover, whenever Jesus engaged with questions involving human sexual conduct, he appealed to God's intention in creation (e.g ., Mark 10:11-12; Matthew 19:4-9).
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John D. Partin
From What Does The Bible Say About Homosexuality: Answering Gay Revisionist Theology by Focus on the Family. Romans 1:18-27 Revisionist Argument #1: Paul is not describing true homosexuals; rather, he is referring to heterosexuals who, as he says, "exchanged natural relations". The real sin here is in changing what is natural to the individual. Response: There is nothing in Paul's wording to suggest he even recognized such a thing as a "true" homosexual versus a "false" one. The idea of gay as an identity, of someone "being gay" or "being homosexual" is a modern construct, rooted in ideology and a particular worldview. Paul simply describes homosexual behavior as against nature --- unnatural. Paul's wording, in fact, is unusually specific. He chooses the Greek words that most emphasize biology. He is not considering any such thing as sexual orientation. He is saying that homosexuality is biologically unnatural --- not just unnatural to "heterosexuals", but unnatural to anyone. As (Stanley) Grenz puts it, "The verse does not speak of natural and unnatural feelings, but natural and unnatural function". Paul is speaking of how we are created --- male and female. Revisionist Argument#2: This Scripture describes people given over to Idolatry, not gay Christians who worship the true God. Response: Idolatry plays a major role in Romans 1. Paul begins his writing by describing humanity's rebellion and decision to worship creation rather than the Creator. But Paul is also talking about sins that arise when humanity stops worshiping the true God, including the sin of homosexual sexual activity. Professor Schmidt explains: Paul is not suggesting that a person worships an idol and decides therefore to engage in same-sex relations. Rather, he is suggesting that the general rebellion created the environment for the specific rebellion. "For this reason God gave them up to", not "As a result of this they did". Revisionist Argument#1: Sodom was destroyed because of the inhospitality of its citizens, not because of homosexuality. Response: The argument makes no sense in light of Lot's words and actions. His first response, "Don't do this wicked thing", could hardly apply to a simple request to "get to know" his guests. The second thing Lot does is especially telling: He answered the demands of the men of the city by offering his two virgin daughters --- another senseless gesture if they wanted only a social knowledge of his guests. Surely the people of the town were acquainted with Lot's daughters, and Lot's response makes clear that he and the townsmen are talking about sexual activity. Revisionist Argument #2: Sodom was destroyed for attempted rape, not homosexuality. Response: The argument is partially true; the men of Sodom certainly were proposing rape. But for such an event to include "all the men from every part of the city of Sodom --- both young and old" (Genesis 19:4-9), homosexuality must have been commonly practiced. Professor Thomas Schmidt, in his book, Straight and Narrow? Compassion and Clarity in the Homosexuality Debate, cites evidence in early literature connecting Sodom with more general homosexual practices. The literature says the people of Sodom were "sexually promiscuous" and "departed from the order of nature". Here "the order of nature" is a reference to male-female complementarity. Revisionist Argument #3: The real sins of Sodom, according to Ezekiel 16:49, were "pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. These have nothing to do with homosexuality. Response: Again, the argument is partially true. When Sodom was destroyed, homosexuality was one aspect of its wickedness. But Ezekiel also says of the city: "They were haughty and did an abomination before me (16:50). When we read 2 Peter 2:6-7 and Jude 7, we learn that this "abomination" included sexual immorality and homosexual conduct.
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Rev'd Andrew
Ahhh, the funny spectacle of ignorant Johnny calling people on this blog who actually know the Bible "stupid"!!! And you curse too! Oh you funny little sinner!
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John D. Partin
You have no perspective or idea about what is funny or you couldn't be with yourself and listen to your nonsense all the time and not be laughing at yourself into hysterical rolling around on the floor constantly!! So, your calling me "funny" is just the biggest joke here!! First remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
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John D. Partin
There were 11 disciples before Matthias was selected to replace Judas Iscariot, who had killed himself, and it isn't saying that Paul was one of the original disciples just because he reformed the same as those 11 disciples did, who were other followers of Christ. Paul was a disciple of Christ, but just not in that group of original disciples. So, they were the other main group of disciples. Everyone who has ever followed Christ is a disciple of Christ and so Paul was also a disciple of Christ, but just not one of the original disciples. I know that that is still way over your head, but if you were able to understand, that would be the explanation, and it isn't my fault that that explanation is wasted on you!!!
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John D. Partin
You took your agreement with my statement out of context and, as usual, twisted it to suit yourself because I actually said that under the conditions of all your nonsense that you are saying about me being true (making myself the arbiter of truth, likening my opinions to those of Christ, and over-inflated sense of self-importance), which aren't true at all, only then could nobody expound on the truth of Christ. That isn't the same thing at all as saying that it can't be done!! But you are always taking my and other people's statements out of context and weaseling around every other way that you can think of to "win" an argument and "make your point", since you have no chance of doing it any other way or by being honest and fair, as you know, which is why you're doing it that way. It also further proves that you are a wolf in sheep's clothing, Satan appearing as an angel of light, false apostle, whited sepulchre, and under Satanic control and a Satanist, since those tactics are what they use, too. Your denials that that is true are worthless, as long as you still doing the same things! By their fruits you will know them and actions speak louder than words. Why do you have just no problem with transgenders in churches flashing fake bare breasts and bottoms in front of young children, all in the name of "acceptance and diversity", and put transgenders' rights to be and do whatever they want everywhere without restrictions over children's rights not to have to see fake bare breasts and bottoms and have that forced upon them?!! Have you just no sense of decency and respect for children's and other people's rights at all?!! Because it doesn't look like you do with your support only of transgenders' rights over everyone else's rights! It isn't right-wing "propaganda" that transgenders are flashing their breasts and bottoms in front of children because you can see it for yourself on YouTube and other outlets, if you are even honest enough to admit the truth of what you are seeing and don't deny the evidence right in front of your eyes and twist it again to make it mean whatever you want it to mean, as you do with everything else! Your dishonesty about what would be put right in front of your own eyes is more proof of your being under Satanic control and a Satanist. The basis of rights is your rights not imposing on other people's rights, and vice versa, not your rights being all that matter and able to impose on other people as much as you please, which is the situation with transgenders' imposing their rights on everyone else, in drag queens story hours, too. If some individual parents have no problems with drag queens coming into their private homes and reading to their children, that is their business, even if it is still immoral, but they can't impose their views that that is "right" on everyone else in a public library, where everyone doesn't share their view and has the right not to have that forced on them and shoved down their throat or else just get out of a library that is for them, too!! You don't have the right to reserve a time in a public library or other public places just for drag queen story hours and forbid anyone else to come in. Have those story hours in private homes and invite like-"minded" people or at NAMBLA headquarters or rent a hall or anywhere else other than a public library or other public place. That would be sharing of rights and respect for each other's rights, instead of transgenders being able to impose on anyone that they want, in transgender bathrooms, too, and nobody has the right to complain against their rights' being violated without being called "bigots" by you and other people. Answer my questions here and no more evasions or admit by that, too, that you are under Satanic control and a Satanist and just won't listen to anything that contradicts your blindness and one-sidedness and hatred of people who disagree with you and indifference to their rights and good.
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Rev'd Andrew
I'm rather concerned, Johnny, that you now have a fascination with transgender nakedness. I suggest you seek some professional help, as your self-hate masquerading as gay-bashing bigotry is taking you down a dangerous path. Go touch some grass.
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John D. Partin
Jesus rebuked the Devil in the desert with Scripture when the Devil quoted Scripture for his purpose and that is how I rebuke you in this desert, following Jesus'example. For this is the will of God, your sanctification that you abstain from sexual immorality, that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God.--- 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5. You and your congregation and others here and in the world aren't controlling your bodies in holiness and honor or abstaining from sexual immorality, but are like those who do not know God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among the saints.--- Ephesians 5:3. But you, on the other hand, have sexual immorality and covetousness named among you, even by yourselves, and so aren't among the saints or doing what is proper among them. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality.--- Galatians 5:19. And you are involved with and advocate all of these works of the flesh. Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.--- Colossians 3:5. But you don't put to death what is earthly in you, and instead encourage and defend it and so are idolaters. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or is covetous (that is, an idolater) has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.--- Ephesians 5:5. So, since you are sexually immoral and impure and covetous, you have no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be condemned! As we have already said, So now I say again, if anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned.--- Galatians 1:8. Since you preach another gospel than what Paul and the Church preached, you are eternally condemned! For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned into fables.--- 2 Timothy 4:3. And you and your congregation and all like-"minded" people don't endure sound doctrine, but heap to yourselves teachers, such as yourself, who tell you and them what you and they want to hear, instead of what all of you need to hear, and the current homophile and transgender-phile propaganda and political correctness and have turned into those and other fables.
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John D. Partin
Andrew, your comment here "about adherence to so-called 'sexual morality'" further proves that you aren't an actual minister because no actual minister considers sexual morality to be fictitious and something to be put in quotation marks. Obviously, you can't teach true sexual morality to anyone else, but only a distorted version of it that says that sexual perversions are now suddenly "moral", just to be popular with some people and tell them what they want to hear and compromise the teachings of Christianity, when you don't even know what it is yourself.
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Rev'd Andrew
John, see my comment above. Your fixation on "sexual morality" merely betrays your puritanical misinterpretation of God's Word. I couldn't care less whether you consider me a "rea" minister. My congregation thrives in the messages of love and acceptance they find in the Gospels. We don't waste our time on the irrelevant rules given in the OT to a people who didn't know the Christ.
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John D. Partin
Andrew, I have no doubt that people who want to follow after their flesh and "spiritualize" their doing that, in order to disguise from themselves that that is what they are doing, instead of taking up their crosses and following after Jesus, as he told them to do, are very happy with their misunderstandings and misinterpretations of the Gospels and "justification" of their sinful "thinking" and actions. And have no doubt, either, that you are happy with that and don't care about any exposure or refutation of your incorrect "thinking", since you enjoy whatever money, power over others, and authority that it is giving you and don't want anything to interfere with that, and don't want to read about consequences of all that!! Jesus Christ didn't consider the Old Testament to be irrelevant, as his saying that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away until all be fulfilled proves (Matthew 5:18). Sexual morality isn't an obsession, but the truth. "Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people ---- none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths (2 Timothy 4:3). The only thing missing in that description of you is your picture!! That is New Testament teaching and so you can't say that it is"irrelevant", too.
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Rev'd Andrew
Go and read Leviticus, John. You are undoubtedly a sinner according to the laws laid down in that book of the OT. Pay attention to the fact that all sins are equal. Now be honest with yourself. Why are you so obsessed with sexual morality?
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John D. Partin
I have already read Leviticus and minor Jewish cultural laws against mixing fabrics, eating shellfish, etc. were their equivalent of our blue laws still on the books in every state in the country, and, no doubt, in countries around the world. Nobody, in his right mind, would say that because those blue laws aren't followed and enforced, laws against murder and rape and other major crimes shouldn't be followed or enforced, either, and the laws against homosexuality and cross dressing were a much bigger deal than just those minor Jewish cultural laws, too.
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Rev'd Andrew
Wrong again, John! Again you betray your lack of contextual knowledge. The 10 commandments list the most important laws, as given to Moses by God. Guess what aren't included: any laws regarding "homosexuality and cross dressing". So, no, they definitely weren't "a much bigger deal". Its only repressed homosexuals scared of their own sexual desires, fragile men insecure about their sexuality, and hateful puritans who keep shouting this false narrative that "God hates Gays". Come out of the closet, John.
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John D. Partin
God doesn't hate gays, but loves them and only hates their sins, the same as all other people's sins. Loving people has never meant loving everything that they do or else the Holocaust and organized crime and every other rotten and perverted thing that anyone is doing would have to be loved as well, which we can't do!! Every moral law couldn't be put just into the Ten Commandments or it would be called the Hundred or Thousand Commandments, and that is why there are moral laws listed elsewhere in Leviticus. But teachings against homosexuality and cross dressing are just obviously a much bigger matter than just not eating shellfish or mixing fabrics, as any reasonable and logical person can see, which, of course, leaves you out, because they are more widespread and detrimental to our moral and spiritual life and cause moral dissolution much more than mixing fabrics or eating shellfish does!! It is more of your anti-Christian bigotry that makes you say here and "think" that any preaching against homosexuality or other sins makes those doing so "guilty of being closet homosexuals or other sinners themselves". Come out and admit your bigotry and come out of that closet!!
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Rev'd Andrew
Awww, look at you having to parrot me because you have nothing original to say yourself! So sad! Once again, you betray your deep ignorance and your lack of logic and consistency. You so DESPERATELY want homosexuality to be a "major" sin, despite homosexuality not being mentioned by any of the 10 Commandments, or by Jesus. So you cling to Leviticus (which doesn't actually condemn "homosexuality" (since such a word doesn't exist in Hebrew) but male incest) and then make the false and desperate claim that "homosexuality and cross dressing are obviously a much bigger matter than not eating shellfish" without providing a single shred of evidence! Your hate and bigotry shines brighter than the sun, John. Since you are still learning what it means to be a Christian, I'll help you out. Read Mark 3:29. That is the ONLY sin that carries more weight than any other. So, contrary to your false assertion, sexual "sins" are in fact equal to eating shellfish and wearing mixed fabrics. Making you as equally "sinful" as men you watch who enjoy anally penetrating each other.
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John D. Partin
You just keep proving yourself to be a liar with every post that you submit here and have proved it yet again, contradicting your statement that you "haven't said that everyone who condemns homosexuality must be a closet gay", by your statement here that I'm "equally sinful as men you watch who enjoy anally penetrating each other"! Again, your assumption that my condemning homosexuality means that "I must enjoy watching that sick nonsense", even if you can't or won't see or admit it yourself. It is you who knows nothing about being a Christian, which you prove every time that you post in here, when you say that homosexuality and transgenderism are consistent with following Jesus, who told all sinners to Go and sin no more, and never denied that any sin was a sin, and upheld the teachings of the Old Testament against these sins when he said "not one jot or one tittle of the law shall pass away until all be fulfilled", unlike your anti-Christian message that "all of the law has passed away without being fulfilled", de facto, since it inconveniences us! Those are much bigger sins than eating shellfish or mixing fabrics, since God Himself has more sense of proportion and justice than to consider them the same and the minor sins were only Jewish cultural laws and weren't even punished by the Jews as harshly as were homosexuality and transgenderism and blasphemy and idolatry and adultery. It is your desperation showing that wants those minor sins to be as bad as the major sins, so that "we are all as sinful as shellfish eaters or fabric mixers", in order to "justify" your and other people's indulging in homosexuality and transgenderism, and so have no perspective yourself or ability to perceive that they weren't as bad as the major sins from the fact that people weren't stoned to death for them, and make yourself deliberately blind and deaf to the truth and common sense!! The truth and love, not bigotry and hate, that I'm telling you do shine brighter than the sun, and it is your bigotry and hate against the truth of Christ that make you call that truth "bigotry and hate" and substitute your false teaching for that truth to make what you call your "Christianity" to suit yourself and other ungodly people!! But as St. Paul said "If even I or an angel from heaven should preach another Gospel to you than what I have preached to you, let him be cursed by God", and you preach another false gospel than the true Gospel of repentance from sin, not wallowing in sin, that Paul and the rest of the Church preached, and so you are cursed by God!! You have no logic or consistency and your condition merely makes you transfer what you are doing and have inside you onto other people. Get that therapy very soon and get better and you will be much happier and God will be much happier about you.
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John D. Partin
You don't seriously believe that murder is no worse than jaywalking or loitering and that there aren't degrees of sins, instead of all sins on the same level of evil, unless you are just very much more stupid than I thought that you were! So, you also don't consider homosexuality on the same level of sin as mixing fabrics or eating shellfish, unless you are also very much more stupid than I thought that you were. Neither did the ancient Jews put all sins on the same level of evil, as they proved by not stoning anyone over just the cultural sin of mixing fabrics or eating shellfish, but only for the major sins of adultery, homosexuality, and blasphemy. That also disproves your idea that homosexuality isn't a sin or wasn't a sin in the Old Testament. Why didn't they treat the minor sinners the same way as the major sinners if, according to you, they "considered that all sins were on the same level"? Ungodly people, such as yourself, have always been ridiculing and laughing at godly people, who have tried to follow the truth and right, and considering and presenting yourselves as "intellectually superior and more educated" than Christians and godly people elsewhere because you have no actual reason or logic on your side, but only these pretenses, attitudes, games, and tactics. Belief in God is very much more intelligent and reasonable and logical than atheism is, which is why atheists and Satanists here and in the world resort to your games and tactics because you know that you don't actually have logic or reason on your side.That was even done to Jesus and Saints down through history by the Romans, who scourged, mocked, and crucified him and the Pharisees and temple guards and all of the Saints' enemies, who mocked and killed them, too. So, of course, that is what you are trying on me, too, but we all see through all of that and you are only lying to yourself with that pretense. Now, why are you so obsessed with hating, ignoring, and denying sexual morality? Except that it gets in the way of what you and others want to do, which is the real reason for your and others' opposition to sexual morality, other than some twisted and perverted version of it that you make up to suit yourselves. Be honest about that, for a change, and come out of your closet and admit your Satanism and the Satanic control over yourself, and stop pretending to believe in Jesus, to use him to "support" your perversions, and join up with the other Satanists and atheists in this blog and in the world, since you agree with them, anyway.
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John D. Partin
The preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that perish, but unto we which are saved it is the power of God ---- 1 Corinthians 1:18. And that explains your and all other ungodly people's ridiculing and laughing at actual Christians and Christianity because you are blinded by the god of this world (Satan) and so don't know any better than to do that and bring down judgment upon yourselves!! So, we just have to say, as Jesus said about those who scourged, mocked, and nailed him to the cross and were gathered around him there, mocking him, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do".
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Rev'd Andrew
We are the actual Christians. Your hateful, bigotted, narrow-minded literalism is anti-Christian. Jesus preached love and acceptance, you speak of hate and division. Jesus spoke of grace and forgiveness, you judge and mislead. Your blasphemy may deny you a place in heaven, because your arrogance prevents you from reading more and saying less. In your ignorance you condemn others when it is you who are condemning yourself. May God forgive you.
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John D. Partin
Jesus preached love and acceptance of people, not of everything that they do or of their sins. Jesus didn't love and accept the moneychangers buying and selling in the temple or the scribes and Pharisees' hard-heartedness and letter of the law thinking and whited sepulchreness, and didn't love and accept people's sins, but told every sinner who came to him "Go and sin no more". Not once did he say to anyone "Go and sin as much as you want because there is no sin". Christianity has always taught "Hate the sin, but love the sinner". So, your whole premise that "loving people means not condemning anything that they do and loving everything that they do" is just ridiculous and impossible for anyone to do, since even Jesus didn't do that and no other people love everything that all other people are doing!! We don't speak hate, bigotry, and division against people, but only against their sins, which are leading them down to Hell. Nobody who loves people is going to just watch them walk into a burning building and burn up and die, or walk off a cliff or off a rooftop to fall sixty or more stories and die, while smiling benignly and saying "Oh, how wonderful!!", but will try to stop them or warn them not to do it!! Hatred of sin is love for people, but acceptance of and indifference to sin, such as yours and many other people's in here and in the world, is hatred of people!! We aren't bigoted against any people because it isn't bigotry against them to be against their sins. It isn't possible to be bigoted against sins, but only against people, which our being against their sins doesn't make us!! It isn't blasphemy to be against what God Himself is against and so God won't keep us out of Heaven for being against that. You are very confused and will need a whole lot of therapy to come out of your confusion and disorder, but you will be very much happier when you do and God will be very happy about that, too, and will forgive you until you get there!!
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Rev'd Andrew
Jaywalking and loitering aren't sins, Johnny. You're confusing racist Black Codes and Jim Crow laws with Mosaic Laws. Which is very interesting...
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John D. Partin
Why do you so hate sexual morality, except that it condemns and gets in the way of what you and other people want to do? And what you want is more important to you than what God wants and His moral teachings, the same as the openly irreligious people, who make no pretense of "following Jesus"!!
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John D. Partin
Your fixation on hating sexual morality other than your own twisted and corrupt version of it that says that perversions such as transgenderism are "moral" betrays your being a false apostle and Satan disguised as an angel of light and under Satanic control!! I pity your congregation, since you are the blind leading the blind and both you and them will fall into the ditch of Hell when you die and in this life, too!! Your congregation doesn't thrive on the messages of love and acceptance in The New Testament, since you are cherry picking only what you like out of it, while ignoring or reinterpreting the rest!! The Old Testament isn't irrelevant, either, because it is the foundation of our Faith, as Jesus knew when he said that "not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away until all be fulfilled". The choice really isn't only between Puritanism and such self-serving and pretentious "morality" as your own, since the true morality is between and the alternative to these two extremes. The Old Testament is The New Testament concealed and The New Testament is The Old Testament revealed.
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Rev'd Andrew
Hell doesn't exist. Homosexuality isn't immoral. You are a hateful bigot, and a blasphemer. Jesus fulfilled the law.
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John D. Partin
Once again, you prove yourself to be under Satanic control and in agreement with Satanism because you echo the teaching in The Satanic Bible that "there is no Hell where sinners roast". You also prove that you don't know the Scriptures at all, other than those that you have twisted to make them mean whatever you want them to mean, and your supposed "superior knowledge of and education in the Scriptures" go flying out the window and you are exposed as a liar and a fool and don't know what in the Hell you are talking about because the Bible is full of references to Hell, which you would know if you really knew Scripture at all!! You aren't up to a conversation with me or up to my level in knowledge of the Scriptures, but, as usual, in your upset down and inverted "thinking", you have deluded yourself into believing that you are "a master theologian", while not even knowing about the verses concerning Hell in the Bible! You arrogantly put your twisting and ignoring of Scripture, denying Hell, over the whole tradition of Christianity stating that there is a Hell!! You want there to be no Hell and so just say that there isn't one, making yourself out to be God by doing so, because if there is a Hell, you and all other Satanists are in for a very terrible awakening and time for eternity!! Why should we listen to and believe you over the whole tradition of Christianity and teachings of Scripture that say that there is a Hell?!! But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.--- Revelations 21:8. And do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both body and soul in Hell.--- Matthew 10:28. And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.--- Matthew 25:46. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.--- Revelations 20:14-15. So, it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.--- Matthew 13:49-50. Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels'.--- Matthew 25:41. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.--- 1 Thessalonians 1:9. And in Hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.--- Luke 16:23. And the list of Bible verses mentioning Hell goes on and on, but, of course, you "think" arrogantly that you know more about it than Jesus and these other people who speak of Hell do, and since you are an atheist and Satanist, Bible verses don't matter or prove anything to you, anyway. Come out of that closet and admit your Satanism and being under Satanic control, since it is quite obvious to all people who read your posts and aren't deluded themselves, and stop pretending to care anything about Jesus or believe in him, except some fantasy version of him that you have made up to suit yourself, along with your religion that you made up to suit yourself. You are the hateful bigot against the truth of Hell and all of Christianity because they convict you of sin, and you don't want to read or listen to anything that does that. So, you deny sin, sexual morality (except your perverted view of it, which allows for transgenders, gays, and anything else that you want), and Hell. You are just very dishonest, pretentious, game playing, and manipulative, the same as one other person in this blog, who, at least, comes out and admits that he is an atheist and makes no pretense of believing in Jesus, made after your own image, as you do!!
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Rev'd Andrew
Even about "hell" you are wrong, John. In traditional English versions of the Bible, Jesus does occasionally seem to speak of “Hell” – for example, in his warnings in the Sermon on the Mount: anyone who calls another a fool, or who allows their right eye or hand to sin, will be cast into “hell” (Matthew 5:22, 29-30). But these passages are not actually referring to “hell.” The word Jesus uses is “Gehenna.” The term does not refer to a place of eternal torment but to a notorious valley just outside the walls of Jerusalem, believed by many Jews at the time to be the most unholy, god-forsaken place on earth. It was where, according to the Old Testament, ancient Israelites practiced child sacrifice to foreign gods. The God of Israel had condemned and forsaken the place. In the ancient world (whether Greek, Roman, or Jewish), the worst punishment a person could experience after death was to be denied a decent burial. Jesus developed this view into a repugnant scenario: corpses of those excluded from the kingdom would be unceremoniously tossed into the most desecrated dumping ground on the planet. Jesus did not say souls would be tortured there. They simply would no longer exist. Jesus’ stress on the absolute annihilation of sinners appears throughout his teachings. At one point he says there are two gates that people pass through (Matthew 7:13-14). One is narrow and requires a difficult path, but leads to “life.” Few go that way. The other is broad and easy, and therefore commonly taken. But it leads to “destruction.” It is an important word. The wrong path does not lead to torture. So too Jesus says the future kingdom is like a fisherman who hauls in a large net (Matthew 13:47-50). After sorting through the fish, he keeps the good ones and throws the others out. He doesn’t torture them. They just die. Or the kingdom is like a person who gathers up the plants that have grown in his field (Matthew 13:36-43). He keeps the good grain, but tosses the weeds into a fiery furnace. These don’t burn forever. They are consumed by fire and then are no more. Still other passages may seem to suggest that Jesus believe in hell. Most notably Jesus speaks of all nations coming for the last judgment (Matthew 25:31-46). Some are said to be sheep, and the others goats. The (good) sheep are those who have helped those in need – the hungry, the sick, the poor, the foreigner. These are welcomed into the “kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” The (wicked) goats, however, have refused to help those in need, and so are sent to “eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” At first blush, that certainly sounds like the hell that you imagine, Johnny. But if you read further you'd see that when Jesus summarizes his point, he explains that the contrasting fates are “eternal life” and “eternal punishment.” They are not “eternal pleasure” and “eternal pain.” The opposite of life is death, not torture. So the punishment is annihilation. But why does it involve “eternal fire”? Because the fire never goes out. The flames, not the torments, go on forever. And why is the punishment called “eternal”? Because it will never end. These people will be annihilated forever. That is not pleasant to think about, but it will not hurt once it’s finished. And so, Jesus stood in a very long line of serious thinkers who have refused to believe that a good God would torture his creatures for eternity. The idea of eternal hell was very much a late comer on the Christian scene, developed decades after Jesus’ death and honed to a fine pitch in the preaching of fire and brimstone that later followers sometimes attributed to Jesus himself. But the torments of hell were not preached by either Jesus or his original Jewish followers; they emerged among later gentile converts who did not hold to the Jewish notion of a future resurrection of the dead. These later Christians came out of Greek culture and its belief that souls were immortal and would survive death. As I've said before, Johnny: you need to read and learn more because you hold a very simplistic, and wrong, view.
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John D. Partin
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John D. Partin
Since you "think", in your condition, that I'm "uneducated" about Hell and transfer your actual ignorance onto me, here are some very highly educated people, who refute all of your objections to eternal torments in Hell, if you aren't too afraid to read their articles and your condition will even let you admit that you are wrong after reading their articles and evidence for it. (1). Hell as Endless Punishment by Denny Burk (www.thegospelcoalition.org). (2). The Master's Seminary Blog/Doctrine, Discourse, Doxology, The Horrors and Habitat of Hell by Chris Gee (www.blog.tms.edu). (3). Hell is a place of endless, ceaseless, and remediless torment by Thomas Brooks (www.monergism.com). (4). Eternal Torments of Hell by Nick Bibile (www.sounddoctrine.net). (5). George Whitefield:: The Eternity of Hell --- Torments (www.blueletterbible.org). (6). Will Hell Really Last Forever? Answering Objections to Eternal Punishment by Greg Morse (www.desiringgood.org). So, go ahead and look up those articles online and put your "knowledge" about Hell up against their greater knowledge and see for yourself that your position that there aren't any torments in Hell is Scripturally and logically untenable and ridiculous, if your condition, of course, will even let you read them and fairly consider them and admit that you are wrong when you are confronted by the evidence that you are.
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Rev'd Andrew
Getting a degree from a Christian college doesn't make someone educated, intelligent, or knowledgeable. The people you have referenced come from a long line of "hellfire and damnation" theology that is prevalent in the US. Why in the US? Because those miserable puritans settled parts of this country and brought their heresy with them.
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John D. Partin
Their belief in the torments of Hell can't be heresy when that has always been the traditional belief of Christianity and Jesus' belief in the parable of Dives the rich man in Hell. The heresy is your belief that there is no Hell, which like your belief that homosexuality and transgenderism "aren't sins", contradicts traditional Church teaching on the matter and is just your making up "morality" and "Christianity" to suit yourself and be popular with ungodly people. You and all other heretics believe in a consequence free universe, where there is no penalty for sin and not even any sins for there to be any penalties for and people can just do whatever they want to do and not have to worry about any judgment from God over that, but that isn't Christianity or common sense or logic or justice. You dismiss all other people than no consequences and no morality other than what you make up to suit yourself people as "a long line of hellfire and damnation theology" people, but just disagreeing with you and agreeing with traditional Church teaching doesn't make them wrong or you "right". Getting a degree from a Christian college doesn't make someone "uneducated, unintelligent, or unknowledgeable", either, which you just use to dismiss them and avoid reading and considering anything that they have to say, and it makes far more sense to believe them and give them credit for intelligence, education, and knowledge over someone such as yourself, who contradicts traditional Church teaching and even common sense and logic. A "long line of hellfire and damnation theology" is only a bad thing, if there isn't any hellfire or damnation, but since they do exist, it isn't bad at all and is a very good thing. Get in line with traditional Church teaching and morality, instead of dragging people down to your immorality and heresy!! Read their articles, if you aren't too afraid to do so, for fear that they will shake up your little world and you into some sensible beliefs, and see if you can read them without your blinders on and they make sense to you.
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Rev'd Andrew
Wrong again little Johnny! The "traditional' church, i.e., the pre-Constantine Holy Roman Empire Church, didn't consider Mary a Virgin or that an actual hell existed. That's all additional nonsense added after it became a state religion designed to control sheep. Like you.
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John D. Partin
So, little Andy, when you say here that Mary's being a virgin and an actual Hell were "additional nonsense added after Christianity became a state religion", you are saying that what the Church believed before that was "nonsense", too, since "additional nonsense" implies that there was already "nonsense" there or else just say "nonsense" and omit the word "additional". You already consider the Scriptures to be "goat herders fables" and so "nonsense" and dismiss Church teaching about homosexuality's being a sin and about Hell, and so why do you even go on pretending to believe in Jesus or anything in Christianity, anyway, or call only some of it "additional nonsense" when you really consider all of it to be "nonsense" and are a de facto Satanist and atheist?!! As I have told you before, God gives us progressive revelation and not just one revelation and speaking to us, as we are prepared to receive it, and so Mary's being a Virgin and an actual Hell were just more of that progressive revelation, when we were ready to receive it. It doesn't matter how that revelation came about because God can use whatever means or channels that He wants to lead us into all truth and can bring good even out of evil. It is more evidence of your Satanism and Machiavellianism that you consider Christianity since Constantine to be just "designed to control sheep" and that you and others indulging in your sins "aren't controlled by Satan and his sheep", too, since that is exactly what Satanists believe about Christianity and about themselves!! You are known by the company that you keep and by their fruits you will know them!!
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John D. Partin
"Homosexuality isn't immoral"! Oh, really!! That is more proof that you are under Satanic control and a Satanist under your pose of "being a Christian" because Scripture, which any real Christian would accept, says that homosexuality is a sin. Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.--- Leviticus 18:22. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.-- Romans 11:27. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous, but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers --- and for whatever is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.--- 1 Timothy 11:8-11. But since you are blinded by the god of this world, Satan, and so don't care anything about sexual morality or what the Bible says about homosexuality or any other sins, none of those Bible verses mean anything to you or are anything for you to pay attention to. You just prefer to make up "Christianity" to suit yourself and because everyone isn't following old Jewish laws against eating shellfish or mixing fabrics, "well, that must make not following the Bible's teachings against homosexuality right, too", huh?!! But you wouldn't be out of jail for very long if you followed suit with that "thinking" and because everyone isn't following or being penalized for not following the blue laws in every state and around the world, "well, then, it must be okay for us not to obey the laws against murder, rape, kidnapping, bank robbery, and all other major crimes, too, right?". There are plenty of Satanists and atheists in this blog and so there isn't any need for you to pretend any longer that you are a "Christian", since you agree with all of them, anyway. Come out of your closet and admit your Satanism and Satanic control and stop pretending to believe in Jesus to make him "support" whatever you want him to "support" and just be honest about what you are!! Better a thousand honest about themselves Satanists than one pretentious "Christian", such as yourself!! Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.--- 2 Corinthians 4:4. But even if we or an angel from heaven preaches a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be under God's curse!--- Galatians 1:8. Your false gospel that says that transgenderism is "okay" and "moral" is another gospel and so is under God's curse, according to this verse of Scripture. So-called "Christianity", such as yours, that is no different than Satanism and atheism, anyway, has no reason to exist and might as well go away and just join up with Satanism and atheism.
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Rev'd Andrew
Again you're confusing Mosaic law with secular laws. No one is saying people shouldn't be punished in secular society for murder. However, since all sins are equal, just as murder is a sin in the eyes of God, so eating shellfish is a sin in the eyes of God. And since blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin, the punishment BY GOD for eating shellfish and murder is the same. You don't like that, obviously, because that doesn't suit your bigotted, judgmental view of the world. So it seems you need to find a different religion to follow.
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John D. Partin
Analogy isn't confusing Mosaic with secular laws, as anyone without your or some other mentally distorting condition already knows. Eating shellfish and mixing fabrics are proved not to have been taken as seriously by the ancient Jews as blasphemy, adultery homosexuality, bestiality, dishonoring father or mother, or idolatry by the historical fact that people weren't stoned to death for eating shellfish or mixing fabrics, no matter how inconvenient that may be to your need to make all sins equal, so as to "justify" indulgence in homosexuality and transgenderism because eating shellfish and mixing fabrics aren't avoided nowadays. Even such prone to stoning people as the ancient Jews had some sense of proportion and degrees of sin or shellfish eating and mixing fabrics would have received the same punishment as these other offenses that got people stoned to death, but they didn't and so they weren't as serious. Not just blasphemy was unforgivable to the Jews or people wouldn't also have been not forgiven and stoned to death for adultery and all of these other sins. Jesus, who taught about the unforgivable sin of offense against the Holy Spirit, never advocated stoning people to death over it and never said specifically what that sin is, and theologians are still debating about what the sin against the Holy Spirit is, which has possibly been kept unknown so that some people wouldn't deliberately do it and condemn themselves. This is a lot to put on someone, such as yourself, with your condition, but when you recover from all of that and stop transferring onto other people your own bigotry and judgmentalism, too, you might, then, be able to understand.
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Rev'd Andrew
Unsurprisingly, you're confusing human actions (what the Jews did, e.g. stoning) with God's commands (dictated to Moses). Just as people like you want God to justify and approve of your hate and bigotry, so did the ancient Jews. That is why God had to dictate the 10 Commandments, so that it would be clear what acts were sinful. As you know, homosexuality didn't make the list. Ancient Jews still got it wrong, and were punishing people for things God hadn't deemed sinful. That's why he had to come down in the form of Jesus to command people to LOVE God, and LOVE each other. He then sacrificed himself for ALL sin. And despite this, people like you still manage to read the New Testament and take it upon themselves to accuse people. Thank God for his absolute GRACE. It's the only thing that redeems people like you, John.
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John D. Partin
Once again, you are being evasive, since you couldn't even convince yourself that you are "right" or "have a point" if you weren't. God didn't include in the 10 Commandments all of the things that He considers to be serious sins or they would be called the 100 or 1,000 Commandments or more, but only those that they needed especially at that particular point. Or no more commandments, since all moral laws are commandments, would ever have been added, if the 10 Commandments alone were all that were seriously forbidden or wrong. All teachings of God against evil are commandments and God just expects people to be able to figure that out for themselves without their having to be led by the hand and have everything spelled out for them all the time. It is LOVE of other people to warn them of spiritual and moral dangers and it is HATE to tell them that everything that they do or want to do is "okay" or "good" and "has no evil consequences", which is just lying to them. God's absolute GRACE doesn't mean going on in our sins and that is "okay" and that "there are no sexual sins", even if you have twisted it into meaning that to make it suit yourself, but is God's giving us the opportunity to come out of sins, with His help, and be redeemed. Jesus sacrificed himself for all sins, but we have to accept his sacrifice for our sins by repentance of them, and not expect to hold on to our sins and still have his forgiveness for them, which is a contradiction in terms and illogical, and makes his sacrifice not apply to us, since we aren't accepting it.
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John D. Partin
You and your congregation don't know Christ because you don't follow his teaching to Go and sin no more, but instead go right on sinning and sinning by denying that sin is sin, too. More evidence that you aren't actually Christians, but only false apostles.
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Lionheart
No one is listening to you, John. Even Christians are getting tired of your religious drivel. When are you going to start wondering, why?
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John D. Partin
Since nobody other than other idiots, such as yourself, is listening to you, it is so ridiculous for you to be talking about "no one's listening to me" and just your transference onto me and others of your own situation of no one's listening to you. So, you share Andy's mental problem and that is why you agree with him. Sick birds of a feather flock together!! He isn't a Christian because he approves of sexual immorality and tries, unsuccessfully, to drag God into "approving of and condoning that", too!! When are you going to start wondering why no one, except other idiots, is listening to you and start agreeing with God and saying something worth listening to?!!
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John D. Partin
God, Who was able to create the first man without a y chromosome or any DNA in storage, since there were no men or people to extract them from, but just came up with them Himself as they were needed did it the same way with Jesus in Mary's womb. Our not understanding how God did it isn't the same thing at all as its being impossible and we need to stop restricting God by our standards. Calling the Bible an "old book of goat herder fables" is very snobbish toward goat herders and falsely proud of yourself and your ilk. Goat herders can know more of God's truth and existence than more vainly intellectual and pseudo-intellectual people can, since their intellectual pride and arrogance are barriers against God's speaking to them. That is why God would have spoken to the goat herders, instead of to the chief priests of the temple and Pharisees, because their humility allowed them to be receptive to hearing from Him, unlike the proud Pharisees. Those who look down on these goat herders also look down on Jesus' being born in a manger, instead of in a palace, where the world "thinks" that the Son of God should have been born, and to reject Christ because of His lowly birth, but He came into the world that way deliberately to teach us humility and against our natural feeling of pride and the pride of life and friendship with the world and the lust of the eyes and heart. This is the perfect time of year when we are celebrating Christ's birth, but really all year long and throughout our lives, for us to learn humility and advance in it, which He came to teach us. "God has revealed these things to the simple and hidden them from the wise and the mighty". "Be not wise in your own eyes and lean not unto your own understanding, but in all of your ways, acknowledge Him, and He will guide your paths".
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
Discussions of Jesus' sexuality seem to be mostly pointless, as they contribute nothing to his message. As an atheist ULC minister I see no compelling reason to not believe that Jesus existed and taught the positive principles of behaviour that he did, even if some of the stories about him are known to have been purloined from other religions.Some believe he may have been involved with Mary Magdalene, some of them believing that he later may have married her, but it's not all that important whether any of that happened. The pictures with no male genitals seem to be more likely a result of prudery than transsexualism, especially as they were painted long after his death..
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The Gray Minister
Well this is a wild eye opening type thought. We have free will to say what we see. This is just that.
I use to wonder What if Like the story is showen.
The guards laughed at Jesus and made wild words. This was after they got the clothes off.
So what if Jesus was a hermaphrodite or should I say himAphrodite? Or maybe he had nothing!
I say Jesus shows excepting everyone. If you believe Then your in the good. Do good Follow the 10 commandments the best you can The 7 deadly can kill. And repent if you can from the life you want of the world and help the world.
Minister Gray
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Maybe little Danny can't find a law to transcribe that relates to this one, and has come to realize that nobody ever wants to hear anything else he ever says. It's as if the good moderator of this blog only posts his personal opinions to teach the rest of us a good lesson in tolerance, patience, and humility.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
assuming this Jesus was a real person there is a very good chance, based on the stories of his timidity and non-aggressive nature he could easily have been sporting more X than Y in his robes. jebus could have been male and gay (and almost certainly a bottom) or he could have been asexual, no or little sex drive (we really don't know about the beard, literally or figuratively(mary magdaline)) and quite feminine in his behavior.
lot of wishful thinking jebus was a gymrat and a warrior but the stories, such as they are suggest a meek and docile demeanor. which would explain the whole aggressive chrs chn ubermacho man that so many chrs chns present. consider for a moment at least that jebus was gay and/or feminine and his story makes more sense (assuming one believes in it).
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Mary Haviland
this is sick, and wrong there is too much proof out there that proves that he is who he says he was..
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Mary, this is only the beginning. You'd never believe how sick it gets.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Mary, I can see how a Christian would feel that way.
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Lionheart
There’s proof? It’s actually still debatable as to whether he really existed, even though it’s possible he did.
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Rev. B
YOU'RE the one that has the proof? And not just some evidence but "too much" proof? What are you waiting for? Please share it with us. This would be the first shred of any evidence of any kind ever found. I can't believe after all these millennia the debate will at last be over. I impatiently await this "proof" but prepare myself for disappointment... again.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, maybe I am actually feigning the affection of fellow hippie potheads.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Jesus was a celibate gay.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Zerpersande, Jesus' apostles left their wives to be with him, and it was never written that they ever had wives again. That doesn't make it sound like Jesus was celibate, but possibly obsessed with sex. And as balanced as she was, I bet she liked it both ways.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, although many people do strive for high ideals, don't forget that to err is human. And in doing so around here I often get a hearty chuckle when watching them fall flat on their faces. I can't believe that you never found such a thing amusing.
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Alexander Arends
So what blasphemy is next? Was Jesus a pedophile? After all he loved little children. Even the bible tells us so. This is all so stupid and irrelevant.
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Rev. B
Is that where contemporary priests got the idea?
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Colleen McAllister
How absurd the whole idea is. Paintings made hundreds of years after Jesus' time have no bearing on anything but the artists talent.
Jesus is an historical figure. (See the writings of Josephus). He was physically born a male Jew. To suggest otherwise is not heresy but stupidity. We should not try to change history to suit our wishes. If Transgender or any other variations of gender identity wish to be seen as normal people then they simply need to act as normal people. That is just be themselves. It is the rest of us who need to change. We need to be more accepting of all.
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Lionheart
Josephus wasn’t contemporary to the time the said Jesus was supposed to be alive. I’m fact, none if those who wrote about him in the New Testament ever met him, because they weren’t alive at that time. 🤷🏼
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David Cox
Well let's see Matthew was Jesus disciple Peter was too John also Luke talked to most of the apostles and if you know the scriptures Paul was taught by him in the Spirit he was caught up into the 3rd heaven...maybe you don't know as much as you think you know. You can also read what the apostle disciples wrote and their disciples
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Lionheart
No, David, please do your research. No one knows who wrote the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. All we know is that those books were written by historians many decades later. No contemporary historians of the time Jesus was supposed to have been around ever wrote about him. Don’t you find that kind of weird?
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Robert Edward Szekely
There have been arguments made that Josephus was simply documenting stories he had heard passed on from others (sound familiar)? Nonetheless, I fail to see the value in essentially seeking to "retcon" a sacred religious archetype too many to fit into a modern cultural interpretation. Is it necessary to redefine Jesus for LGBTQI Christians to be accepted for what they are without question? Can't someone be a queer Christian without feeling the need to remake Jesus as queer? If they worship Jesus as consubstantial part of the Divine Trinity (as the majority of Christians do) doesn't God transcend these things? If, after all, the whole point is "to live and let live, as one is", that is.
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Rev. B
Small correction: Jesus is not a historical figure, like most fictional characters. As for those paintings made hundreds of years after Jesus supposedly lived? So were all those books about him. Books of antiquated morality tales with the events and characters placed in the author's past.
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Doctor Loyal
Perhaps the, "Kama Sutra" is the Truth, The Way, and Our Salvation.
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Rev. B
I think we have the beginnings of a new religion, Doctor Loyal. Want to get rich?
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Lionheart
You might be right with the Kama Sutra. I do know that many do exclaim “Oh God! Oh God!” during coitus 🤭
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
STUPID, STUPID. Does this guy have an education? Surely the Dean does and should know there is nothing to ponder on this so-called sermon. Has the Anglican Church gone crazy? Apparently not the members who were rightfully upset and enraged. No one knows what Jesus looked like in human form. Yes, he was Jewish born, but that is not enough to know anything about his looks. His portrayal as the Prince of Peace is from the artist's concept of a man of knowledge, compassion and peace AND YES Godly. The paintings of his death are from the Biblical description of the wounds.
I hope the congregation and the King do not let this go. The 'preacher' needs to realize his wrong and correct it. The Dean needs to be demoted until he can be better educated not only in history but in how to respond to parishioners with real concerns.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Waldron, it isn't literate to spell the word "stupid" with all capital letters. So, atleast we can tell that your alleged doctorate is not in English.
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
ELFSTORM, STUPID COMMENT, Sorry I just couldn't let that one go.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Waldron, there's nothing wrong with speculating. It's not something to get all huffy and puffy about.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
I believe the preacher can preach what he wants. If someone in the congregation disagrees, so be it. Leave if you want to leave.
Then open your mind to accept and love all people as he loves all his children . Jesus did not die in the cross. He left to go out for a bit.
I do personally believe He was a man and infused mission life entity. It lowers my faith in him not at all. He has his beliefs. my choice would have to be that he had a male body.
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Tareq Asfour
Actually Im laughing, what a hilarious farce. While everyone else is getting their emotions in a bind, Im sitting watching whole entire world is going to hell in hand basket. Ever since the Pandemic started and the death of George Floyd that is triggering the world’s end of the white supremacy of church. Upon millions of people are leaving churches at a record pace. Remember we are experiencing the greatest collapse which we are in the beginning of end times, much more is coming, Im going to sit back and watch the real life movie unfold unfortunately the end of church as we all know it that is responsible for it’s own demise and failures…
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Toke it up, Tareq! You sound like you've got a really good buzz!
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David Cox
The bible predicts a lot of things even the end times
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David Cox
But realize this, that (A)in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For people will be (B)lovers of self, (C)lovers of money, (D)boastful, (E)arrogant, (F)slanderers, (G)disobedient to parents, (H)ungrateful, (I)unholy, 3 (J)unloving, irreconcilable, (K)malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, (L)haters of good, 4 (M)treacherous, (N)reckless, (O)conceited, (P)lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of (Q)godliness although they have (R)denied its power; (S)avoid such people as these. 6 For among them are those who (T)slip into households and captivate (U)weak women weighed down with sins, led on by (V)various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to (W)come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as (X)Jannes and Jambres (Y)opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, (Z)men of depraved mind, worthless in regard to the faith. 9 But they will not make further progress; for their (AA)foolishness will be obvious to all, just (AB)as was that also of Jannes and Jambres.
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Rev. Laurie G. Cleveland RN
His arguments are very weak. If you are looking at medieval art as a reason to consider someone transgender when there wasn't even the caoabikity at the time that Jesus walked on earth. The whole thing has gotten out of control. There is no evidence historical or otherwise that Jesus was anything but a man and during His time on earth, Jews were not rich, but generally poor. You seldom found a fat Jew. In those days, men and women married young. The biggest problem with the KJV Bible and most any other before or after was whatbkept getting left out. Blood flowing down a chest during and after crucifixion doesn't denote that the painter was making a statement, but if this idiot had any knowledge of medicine, which it appears that he doesn't, blood generally flows down the body. It's physics and just A&P 101.
Jesus was compassionate towards those who loved those of the same sex. It has been going on probably since the beginning. Who am I to think otherwise? Kids experiment. Does it mean that they are gay or whatever? I don't think so. Should we be forced to start sex education with little kids and essentially brainwash them? No. It is a topic for older kids and I do not support allowing boys into girl's locker rooms or vice versa. There are too many things that can happen.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You're right Laurie. Atleast children of the same gender, just playing around in the locker room, can't get eachother pregnant, unless it's later learned that one was a hermaphrodite.
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Robert Edward Szekely
Are intersex persons fertile? Just asking. I dunno. And if so, which set of gametes: sperm, ova or both? Raises an interesting point. Do both set of genitalia develop equally, or does one develop at the expense of the other? I know this has not been a topic of open discussion in our society, but maybe it needs to be, because the decision is often made at birth for such people to decide their sex, and it doesn't necessarily match the individual's gender identity.
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Jean Bakula
Transgender is how a person identifies in their head, not their genitals. Read and learn.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
There are a few ways to approach this issue: 1) understand that jesus is fictitious and you are getting bent for nothing or 2) understand that jesus is all things to all people and it is not up to others to tell them how to believe, accept or view jesus as it is they who decide what their personal relationship with him will be and 3) declare a holy war against anyone who suggests jesus was anything other than the blonde hair, blue eyed, ripped gym-rat-bodied illegitimate son of god that fervent white chrs chen men have made him out to be. Spoiler alert...it's #1
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Atleast Michelangelo painted Jesus (and all other men) with a little penis, which is better than nothing!
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Wilberta M. Berry
If God created all in its own image then God should represent all of humanity it their form. To say God is Transsexual no more sexualize God than to say God is Black makes God inferior to Whites or any other ethnicity. People are ignorant, stupid and ridiculous. Once man stops Anthropomorphizing the Creator this nonsense will stop.
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Susan Colmenares
Absolutely true! The creator is a spirit who has no gender.
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Marcella J Schieffelin
Or that the Creator is ALL, ONE.
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Rev. B
But god made Adam in his image. Therefore, he looks just like Adam. Was Adam a spirit with no gender?
Seriously, how vain do you have to be that you make the first life form you create look just like you?
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John D. Partin
"In his image" means in his spiritual image, not physical image, because all intelligent life across the universe is created in the image of God, and most of them probably look nothing like human beings and all human beings don't look exactly alike. So, the physical appearance can't possibly be the image of God. It isn't vain for God to give all intelligent life everywhere His spiritual image, which is life itself and intelligence, but only blessing and loving them, not for His own "self-idolization and narcissism", since He doesn't have those feelings. Satan himself is in the image of God, though he has disfigured that image in himself, as have sinful human beings. But they can have all of the filth and distortion cleansed off them and changed and be restored to God's image. God is only spiritually discerned and so it is useless arguing with atheists who won't even accept the evidence of the universe as proof of His existence and discount anything that they can't detect through their five senses. Even atheists, though, sometimes, believe in love and God is love.
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Mary Haviland
Wrong Adam did have a gender. And yes in the begining He was both sexes, and YHWY had to split him. But he was not sexless. And just because he originally was a dual sexual body, does not mean he was bisexual. Because having the body as a sexual being does not mean they were sexual. They did get sexual later after YHWY had His angels bind then into marriage. But the having two bodies was foreign to them. It took time for them to adapt to a physical body after they got kicked out and having two separate bodies.
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Rev. B
Wrong? I asked a question. A question which you have now kindly answered. Thank you very much, Mary. :)
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Lionheart
How do you know this, Susan? Are you just quoting from a book?
How different is your belief system from everyone else’s worldwide faiths and beliefs of their particular God?🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Mary Haviland
Wrong. YHWY does have a gender. And YHWY days in the scriptures that HE is a He. And YHWY has a spiritual body as well as a physical body because YHWY is all things. Just as an angel can exist in the spirit and the physical form, so can YHWY. And yes spirits do also live in spirit form. The strangers that went to see see Sodom were angles and they sat and had supper with Lot. They are and drank. So did Yashua after his reserection.
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Mary Haviland
Wrong. YHWY does have a gender. And YHWY days in the scriptures that HE is a He. And YHWY has a spiritual body as well as a physical body because YHWY is all things. Just as an angel can exist in the spirit and the physical form, so can YHWY. And yes spirits do also live in spirit form. The strangers that went to see see Sodom were angles and they sat and had supper with Lot. They are and drank. So did Yashua after his reserection.
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Clerance Homister
Well articulated.
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Doctor Loyal
Thank you Wilberta !! Well stated and obviously well considered. When Mankind stops glorifying himself in an attempt to assume the Godhead, sanity may finally prevail. Why would anyone try to squeeze an immense personification into a tiny plastic mold is beyond any sane action or belief.
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Clay Serenbetz
People need to open their minds to new thoughts and ideas, otherwise we'd still be stuck in the dark ages with a flat earth as the center of the universe. Challenge tour mind -- it's how we grow as people.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Agreed, but Christians have never been willing to open their minds to anything new.
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Doctor Loyal
Your lack of empathy is legendary. This is a forum, not a pillory. I don't walk on water, and those that do walk on water don't speak scathingly of others as a group. It's not racist, but it is thoughtless.
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Minister James R. Henry
These pictures were drawn by men. They also depict in most cases a white Jesus. Jesus Christ was a Jew and had a light brown body, not a white one. We cannot claim Jesus is what man draws or paints. This is one reason the Bible says not to make any graven image. Simply because man will draw or paint pictures such as Jesus Christ in their own image, and man is born into sin, making Jesus Christ a man of sin, or a man rather than the only begotten Son of God l.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
In the painting above this article it shows Jesus' dead corpse, without a a penis! Everything else about the picture looks real, and if the artist was trying to be realistic why did he omit Jesus' genitalia, if he really had anything down there at all. If Christ was a man, and who and what they claim, it seems to me that he would have had a super huge dong! Then again, he could have been promoting balance, as in hermetic philosophy, and also yin yang, and in being completely balanced between masculine and feminine, to show that there truly is god and goddess, as expressed throughout nature and most life forms, it would make perfect sense for him to manifest in human form, as being both man and woman, so in the picture his penis was probably tucked into his vagina, and since his legs weren't spread open it wasn't noticeable.
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Rev. MichaelRS
That is as silly as the original premise of the sermon. How would some medieval artists know anything about Jesus's genitalia?
Maybe it was just the fact that it was a religious painting and showing Jesus' package would not be respectful in any event...especially given the time in history. Did a lot of paintings of the day exhibit penises? IDK
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Clerance Homister
Well stated.
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Joe Stutler
Anytime someone gives a fan favorite a makeover, there're bound to be diehards of the original mythos who are upset that their classic has been reinterpreted. This is no different than Romeo and Juliet fans getting their dander up over the audacity of West Side Story's existence.
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Kirk England
Well, now we know the trans thing is coming to an end. The end of something is always marked by overly absurd edginess. This fits the bill. Heath should have taken an art history class where the depictions are explained. Transness isn’t one of them. I’m pretty sure they have a few of those at Cambridge.
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Joe Stutler
The "trans thing" has always been with us, just as bigotry has been. (Consider the latter closely, you might notice more than a passing acquaintance in that mirror...)
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Kirk England
Joe, I said nothing derogatory about trans folks. You are the one with bigotry issues.
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Joe Stutler
"trans thing"....yeah, you did, bigot. Try harder. 😉
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Be
Yeah, you totally did. What else could you possibly mean when you say "now we know the trans thing is coming to an end."
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JaZe
A book on this very idea was available some 20 years ago, (dont remember the title though) so it s not new.
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To whomever sent me the last comment about Sodom and Gomorrah, saying I don't understand geology and science. I want to say actually I do. And so does the people on the videos. Or they get experts who do, much more experts them you are on the matter. And I do understand. I have studied geology and science. And I also know that what Happened to those locations wasn't anything that would have happened through a geological or scientific evet known to man. And I know that if you were the expert in it you like to think you were. Then you would be the world famous scientist making such claims or disputing them. So I say you don't know what you are talking about.