In a move that some are calling wildly offensive, a German Bible museum recast Jesus as a transgender woman in a play… just weeks before Christmas. The museum says they only wanted to show solidarity with the LGBTQ community and tell them God loves them as they are, but many Christians were outraged at the idea of Jesus as a trans woman.
Trans-Jesus?
‘The Gospel According to Jesus, Queen of Heaven,’ hit the stages of Frankfurt at The Bibelhaus, a popular German Bible museum. The play was written by transgender author Jo Clifford and casts Jesus as a transgender woman.
During the play’s small initial 2009 run in Glasgow, Clifford received scores of death threats and the theatre it was performed at dealt with protests so large and raucous that the BBC covered them. “I thought, ‘Well, what would Jesus do if Jesus came back to earth now and was me, a trans woman? What would she do and what would she say?’” Clifford says. “That was the origin of the play.”
The play ran in tandem with the museum’s ‘G*tt w/m/d’ exhibit, which showcases the diversities of gender identities ancient and modern, arguing that no matter who you identify, “you are good as you are.”
Its website shows a handful of the exhibits, including an LGBT Adam. “God's image is both male and female, in the origin, when it all began, and finally in the future,” the site reads. “In the new creation of God then no longer applies to male or female, but all are one.”
As you might imagine, a transgender Jesus and male and female Adam didn’t exactly sit well with many evangelicals.
Evangelicals Object
“A profane perversion” is how evangelical leader Franklin Graham described the display. "Any suggestion that Jesus Christ is transgender is not only false, it’s just sick… This is simply man trying to bring God down to his own level."
Graham pointed to the numerous uses of male pronouns in the Bible as evidence that Jesus wasn’t a transgender woman. "From the time of Christ’s birth on that first Christmas morning, to His sacrificial death on the cross, to His resurrection from the tomb, the Bible only refers to Jesus Christ as a male. The Bible has many names for Jesus, including Son of God, Son of Man, Prince of Peace, King of Kings, and the bridegroom of the Church."
The museum’s point with the exhibit is in part that the arguments over the gender binary are not new. “For some years now, society has been opening up to non-binary gender concepts,” their website states, as it invites viewers to challenge their existing perspectives. “This debate is ancient, as is shown by countless pieces of evidence: archaeological finds, theological and philosophical records or traditions from everyday culture and art from bygone eras.”
But using Christianity’s savior to make that point seems a step too far for many Christians, who say it’s beyond blasphemous.
Is a transgender Jesus inherently offensive? Or was the museum right to use the potentially shocking imagery to challenge the gender binary?
134 comments
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Lionheart
I just love the topics The Monastery Blog pulls up, don't you? Well, if Jesus really existed, it's suggested he wore a dress (which people will downplay as a robe) 😳, and he had many boy friends called Apostles, so Jesus might have had some feelings for them bordering on the rainbow side. It's their wives I feel sorry for. Why do women always get the short straw in the biblical tales. What happened to the apostles wives? Joseph's wife also got a bad deal, totally forsaken by her lover....god. 🤷🏻♂️
If Jesus was transgender, was his dad....god? If we were made in gods image, do all men have transgender traits, after all, we do have nipples 😱. And let's face it, everyone does start out as being female for the first few weeks of gestation, but don't tell macho men that...it could hurt their ego.
🦁♥️
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Jeanette Harlow
Lionheart -- that was fantastic...you made me laugh. Something missing from these comments. Thanks, rhea summer rain
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I really love these by far mostly silly topics they give us to discuss with eachother too Lionheart. I never would have imagined such things on my own. I have learned quite a few facts about these subjects too, mostly of which otherwise never would have interested me. But I really enjoy and appreciate this blog nevertheless. And I'm so glad to have a way to minister to our fellow ministers, who really need my help, whether they realize it, or not.
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Kat Strid
We're all Christians we should all allow others to depict God Jesus Adam the whole shebang as we see and choose to stop getting angry at people because they're not believing exactly like you and remember God loves us all no matter who we are and be kind instead of angry two others
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
What do you mean, "we're all Christians"?
No we're not. I'm not. Christian, Muslims and Jews all worship the God of Abraham and you all can't stop trying to kill each other. If God loves you, then why does he do nothing to stop his Children from doing that?-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm not a Christian iether, Matthew, and God can love his deliverance rejects all he wants, but he knows that the way he made me I'm not about to join him, except when it comes to my deliverance reject Christian friends and relatives.
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John D. Partin
Matthew Mastrogiovanni, He won't stop them from doing that because He won't take away their free will and make their decisions for them, either not to kill or to love each other. As George Burns, playing God in Oh, God!, replied to John Denver when he asked how He could permit all the suffering in the world: "Ah, how can I permit the suffering? I don't permit the suffering. You do. Free will. All the choices are yours. You can love each other, cherish and nurture each other, or you can kill each other. Incidentally, 'kill' is the word. It's not waste. If I meant 'waste', I would have written 'Thou shalt not waste'. You're doing some very funny things with words here. You're also turning the sky into mud. I look down, I can't believe the filth. Using the rivers for toilets, poisoning my fishes. You want a miracle? You make a fish from scratch. You can't. You think only God can make a tree. Try coming up with a mackerel. And when the last one is gone, that'll be that. Eighty six on the fishes, goodbye sky, so long world, over and out". People want and expect to do whatever they want to do, but never have any adverse or rotten consequences happen to them for doing that, and always blame God for their own actions that brought those consequences down on them, saying, as you just said, that God should have stopped them from doing any of that or stopped those consequences. I just gave you the reason why He can't do that and make us all incapable of doing evil and robots, since that wouldn't be our choice or prove anything about us, but only His deciding for us. He wants us to freely choose to love Him and have the good consequences coming from that, but that means He has to give us the freedom, too, to choose not to love Him and have the evil consequences coming from that. We want the "good" things coming from sin and disobedience, but none of the consequences, and to have our cake and eat it, too. It doesn't work that way!!
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
I generally agree with Robert above. Why do some in the community want to stir up outsiders? To get more hate thrown at them?
My guess is the author of this play isn’t a believer and wants to poke at those of us who believe. Kind of like many on here that presumably are ULC ordained yet seem to poke fun at religious people every chance they get.
If the author is Christian, what was she/he/it/they thinking? What was the Bible Museum thinking? Have they gained anything? A new understanding? No! God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are not human now. They have no human genders. We only know when Jesus was on earth he took on the image of a man. He associated God as his Father, just as the Jewish culture associated God as the Father of the Jews.
By the way the article states Evangelicals object to this play. I am not a so called Evangelical, I am a Christian, and I object because it does nothing to promote belief and gives nonbelievers delight. + + + AMEN
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robert
Hmm , obviously someone who wrote this garbage, has a social agenda, so right off its biased, and as far as Jesus being a tranny, seems the Bible is way too male dominated to even lend anything of actual credibility to it. So let me end by asking a question, if what goes on in the privacy of someone’s bedroom is no one’s else’s business, then why do those who are LGTQB insist on telling everyone what they do therefore making it everyone’s else’s business?
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Rev Mark D
Given what all the Christian, or excuse me, so-called self-annointed, Christians do hard-selling and imposing their religion on everyone else, seems a bit of "turnabout is fair play" does no harm...and "doing no harm is something billions of Christians cannot claim to."
Besides, it's a "what-if" exercise, like John Lennon's "Imagine" lyric. But get your popcorn and Pepsi and enjoy the coming clown show conniption fits.
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James Riggle-Johnson
We are not telling you what we do in our bedrooms... trust me, you couldn't handle it. We are telling you we want to be treated equally, being able to walk down a street holding hands without being threatened are beaten. It's as simple as that.
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Edward Kincaid Machpelah
Right. Sleeping together is just sleeping together keeping each other company and away from loneliness. Stop the gutter mind. Sleeping can be just that Sleeping. Love can just be love. Any kind. Sex is lust anyway..
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Eric B Peterson
This article contains no biblical scholarship nor historical for that matter. Jesus, being a Rabbi, was well aware and observant of Levitican Law. Leviticus clearly preaches against the practice of LGBTQ behaviors. While Jesus preached that the eating of the prohibited foods did not damage one's soul, he made no such mention of an exemption for the prohibition against homosexual behavior.
That will likely send rockets flying in my direction, but I did not write Leviticus and what you are really being angry at is that Jesus does not allow cherry picking when it comes to matters of the spirit and God's law.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Jesus, if anything has been neutered. There really isn't anything masculine or feminine about him.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
From a ULC Bishop, whose been sainted twice, has a ULC DD, and doctorates in five ULC theology-related areas.
And, as such, I can state, with a reasonable amount of certainty, that because there is not one bit, of primary evidence, that an actual historical Jesus ever existed (and is therefore akin to Zeus and Jupiter, in terms of being mythological) that the mythological Jesus can be whatever those who believe that mythological people can be anything such a myth-believer wants Jesus to be.
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Peggyann Johnson-Hansen
By telling your credentials, William Dusenberry, at the beginning of every post you depict a lack of humility in your post. Of course, your opinions are still valuable to the conversation, however, you create a post that comes across as if you are the only one who knows the truth on any spiritual topic. Check the historical writings of Josephus 18:3.3 in relationship to the existance of Jesus/Christ.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Any use of Josephus, to suggest that an actual historical Jesus ever existed (for whatever it was worth, even if was true) has been demonstrated to be fraudulent— cut and pasted into writings attributed to Josephus, 200 or so years after the supposed related events.
It’s just a matter of time before Christian mythology is no more be,ie able than Greek, Roman, Druid, and Mormon mythology — then relegated to the garbage-dump of history.
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John D. Partin
The Romans and other anti-Christian people down through history have been predicting "the end of Christianity" and were able to do more to bring that about, if it even could be done, than any self-important delusional "twice canonized" and doctorate constipated person posting in a blog, and Christianity is still here and isn't going away ever!! So, go have your fantasies about something that you can actually do something about, if anything fits into that category, because Christianity is way out of your league!!!
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John Komorowski
Ugh, sorry but a lot of Josephus has been shown to ah, somewhat inaccurate when it comes to his Jesus narrative. Debunked.
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John P Maher
Mr. DUSENBERRY, YEAH ask the tRUMP FAMILY and the G O PIGFARM !
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Reverend Kurt
Does it make any difference what a persons sex or sexual orientation is? Is it not the message or life's achievements that are important? Christians (in this incidence) have a fixation on sex in all it's aspects, Sigmund Feud has clearly defined the ethos here. Understandably when the churches imposed their own taxes on their followers, LGBT did not reproduce and therefore offered less income. What is it with a religion that says go forth and multiply, women are chattels to be treated as inferior to the male,
marriage is the foundation of the religious beliefs and sex within marriage is expected and sanctioned, yet the offspring are born into sin. Go Figure. Incidently the same applies to all the Abrahamic religions. Sex is a prime need, see Mazlows hierarchy of needs. So I ask again"what is most valuable:- the achievement or message, or the very private sexual practice/ orientation of the messenger??-
Reverend Kurt
It is a very enlightening exercise when one investigates, our past heroes, in art, entertainment, philosophy, politics,art,science, technology astronomy as well as the military,cultural and religious persons of the past and present who are found to be/ have been, LGBT. They are a large part overall of humanity Even animals sometimes do practise homosexuality. It makes no sense to ostracise or vilify a large portion of our past,present and future. Are not their deeds and wisdoms that made them special??
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Gerardo Salazar
I would suggest to those people to do something similar but portraying Mohammed. As a Catholic I get tired of this whole meek business. Very big difference between being peaceful or being an imbecile.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
In reaction to whats been posted so far.
And, what’s in this post, is all verifiable, and demonstrably accurate.
Every (all) religions are man made; and as such represent the desires of those who control their tribe, at the expense of those lacking such control.
Religions owe, whatever control (power) they might still have, to the failure of a tribe (nation) to get their kids to become proficient in science —. because religious explanations of anything are only accepted, amongst those who are scientific nincompoops.
And you can bet your mortgage on this.
Happy astrophysicist-determined New Year (4,540,172,022) to all ULC-types; and a cool yule, to ya’ll who still use the archaic Christian calendar — who can still get themselves bent out of shape, over a meme that defies both logic and commonsense.
The year 2022 has no basis on anything— and was concocted by British Empire merchants (in conjunction with the Pope) so that British ships could be expected on agreed upon dates.
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Lionheart
My predictions for 2022:
1) Jesus will not return.
2) No one will prove the existence of any God.
3) Secularism will continue to grow worldwide.
4) More Christian priests will be accused of sexual abuse of children.
Let’s review my predictions this time next year in 2023.
Happy New Year to you all 🎉🥂🍾
🦁❤️
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John D. Partin
My appraisal of and predictions for your predictions for 2022:
(1). You wouldn't know that Jesus came back if He walked right up to your face and said "Here I am!!" because you would deny the evidence of your own eyes and ears! So, there is no way for Jesus to "not come back" for you and millions of others who won't accept any evidence of His coming back and are tightly closed-minded against it, so that it won't shake up your whole little world and make you rethink everything!! Jesus comes back every hour of every day, but because it is spiritually discerned and not blatantly physically perceived, which still wouldn't be accepted as proof of His return to you, then you and like-"minded" people deny that He is coming back!! "The ungodly man perceives not the things of God because they are spiritually discerned". So, by next year, after He has come back many thousands of times, I predict that you still be denying that He has come back at all because you are far more predictable and unrealistic than you think that He is!!!
(2). God's existence is proved irrefutably by the existence of the universe and its laws and interconnection of them for its operation and by answered prayers, which couldn't logically be answered if there were nothing to answer them, anymore than anything else gets sent and received if there is nobody to send them!! So, I predict that you will be still be just as wrong about God's "not existing" by next year as you are right now, and still not opening your mind to the overwhelmingly abundant evidence of His existence!!!
(3). God will continue to shine His light of love and truth in the world and that will continue to grow and the darkness of deliberate blindness, deafness, and refusal to reason will still never overcome the light of love and truth in the world, just as it hasn't over the last two thousand years. So, I predict that you will still be just as blind and deaf as you are right now by next year and your and other people's blindness, deafness, and unreason will still not have overcome the light and truth of God, which can't be overcome, but can only overcome all of you!!!
(4). I predict that even more Catholic priests' being accused of sexual abuse of children will be as powerless to destroy the Church as it is today because human priests aren't the standard that we measure ourselves against, but only the perfection of God!! I predict that you and others will focus only on unholy priests, due to your prejudice and unfair attitude against Catholicism, especially, but also the other denominations, and will excuse and deny and minimize your own sexual and other abuses of children, in order to propagandize against and scapegoat the Church as much next year as you do today!! That is a safe bet!!
Let's review my predictions next year and see if they are true about you!!
Happy New Year and your reclamation and reform this year!!
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Lionheart
1) Yes I would, especially if I witness him emptying hospitals of the sick and afflicted.
2) Tell him/her/it to come and see me to prove it’s reality. Perhaps it could help Jesus empty hospitals as proof.
3) Light, love, and truth? Try telling that to the families of those that have died, or have seriously been maimed recently in weather related catastrophes.
4) The “church”, even yours John, is getting smaller every year. In the US alone, those that believe in a god is now for the first time below 50 per cent. Thank goodness people are seeing the truth about religion.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/341963/church-membership-falls-below-majority-first-time.aspx
As Christianity gets smaller, I’m sure it will eventually become classed as a cult, and rightly so. What do you think John?
🦁❤️
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John D. Partin
(1-4). I have told you repeatedly why God wouldn't heal all people and empty the hospital beds everywhere!! Do you have a learning disability or early Altzheimer's? This time, write it on a piece of paper and stick it up on your refrigerator or tattoo it on your forearm or forehead or, if you don't want other people seeing it, place it in a hidden from view spot on yourself where only your "wife" or whomever can read it to you. Speaking of which, how are those excursions to the cabin with your buddies going? Here it is: we can't see the bigger picture that makes some sickness or even death necessary to relieve people of their suffering or to make people rise above their suffering or sorrow for others and be an inspiration to the rest of us. Also, God won't always spare us from the consequences of our own actions and decisions. God won't come to you or anyone else without faith in Him first, just because you egotistically want an audience with Him. Some of the saints saw visions of God or Jesus or Mary because they had the faith and humility to see those visions. So, if you want God to appear to you, get busy acquiring faith and humility as much and as fast as you can and you, too, might have a vision of God and talk with Him face to face, since no atheist has ever had a vision of God, which their atheism precludes and eliminates the possibility of their doing. Right now, your faith and humility reserves are bone dry and so get busy on refilling them or forget about meeting with God until you die, and you won't like that meeting at all!!! We covered this "light, love, and truth" objection in my explanation again of the reason why everyone isn't getting healed and so don't need to keep going over the same ground here. It doesn't mean that there isn't light, love, and truth just because people have to endure suffering and still trust in God and so be an inspiration to the rest of us because that is part of the Light, Love, and Truth, as paradoxical and "contradictory" as that may sound to you, and will sound to you until you have opened your heart and mind to the Truth!! Right now, it's like talking about colors to a blind man or speaking Greek or any other language that a person doesn't know to that person. He doesn't have the ability to understand what you are saying to him, but if his eyes were healed and opened or he could understand that language, then he could understand what is being said to him. So, open your eyes and be healed in your eyes, ears, mind, and heart, and you will be able to understand what I'm saying to you, and not until then, no matter how much we wrangle and argue back and forth here!! It is an exercise in futility and putting the cart before the horse without your eyes, ears, mind, and heart first being opened and healed!! "Judge not by the appearance, but judge a righteous judgment". Appearances are deceiving and what looks like "the Church getting smaller" or people, according to you, "seeing the truth about religion" isn't necessarily or usually what is actually going on or the real truth. As I said before, there are no atheists in foxholes or haunted houses, and some people (maybe, you know one of them!) are only "atheists" or "against Christianity" when everything is going okay for them, but when everything goes against them and they are miserable and suffering and need help, they will cry out for help from God directly or God through other people, and then the real truth comes out!! That isn't reflected in casual off the cuff poll taking of people, who just toss flippant answers out and don't think about what they are saying. It is certain that Friedrich Nietzsche, a very hardened atheist, felt very differently about the matter, if he had any sense left to him at all, when he was in the lunatic asylum and suffering there, and so it is with you and all other atheists, who will renounce your atheism in your hearts, anyway, or publicly when you are at the end of your rope and there is no where else to turn, except God, or at the end of your lives here on Earth!! "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord!"----willingly or unwillingly!! Make it easy on yourself, but one way or the other, it's going to happen!! "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"!!
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John D. Partin
You wouldn't know it if Jesus came right up to you and said "Here I am", no matter how much you say that you would, because He already does come up to you every day many times in other people, since He said "Inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me". So, you are meeting Jesus every day already, and don't even know it!! Also, if you would deny the evidence of your own eyes and ears if you saw and heard spirits, you would also deny that evidence if you saw and heard Jesus Christ or God, though that wouldn't make them unreal or not there. So, what would be the point of their appearing to you, just so that you could say "I didn't see them", which you can say without their appearing to you, anyway?!!
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Robert Edward Szekely
When Christianity began, it was a cult: a small Jewish sect: the "Followers of the Nazarene", essentially.
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Lionheart
Yes you’re right Robert, and in many ways Christianity is still a cult, despite the number of people, like John Partin on here, who will disagree. The blind leading the blind! 🤷🏼
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John D. Partin
Atheism is a cult and not scientific, since its theorizing that a mindless universe is coming up with its own laws and interconnection of them for its operation is unscientific, unreasonable, illogical, and stupid!!! Christianity is scientific, reasonable, and logical in stating that mindfulness in the universe can't come out of mindlessness and something can't come out of nothing. I'm still waiting for you to send me here your peer reviewed paper that shows that there is no Mind behind the universe and your scientific procedure for arriving at that conclusion, because it would be inconvenient for you if there were a Mind behind the universe, if only to see how many idiots you have gotten to go along with that obvious nonsense!!! Our debate and conversation will be OVER!!! if you can show me ONE!!!! example of a car without a driver and without being remote controlled, computer programmed, or automated drive itself around across country and pull itself into gas stations for refills of gas and to check its own oil and perform all the other necessities for itself that require a human driver to see to the rest of the time for every other car. Then, I will have to say: "I guess that I was wrong and mindless things can do things for themselves". Until then, however, I'm not wrong and when even a car can't take care of its own needs and drive itself without a Mind behind it, the far bigger and more intricate and more complex, though still mindless, universe can't take care of its own needs or drive itself any more than that car can!!! In fact, incalculably less so!! So, I'll be waiting for your example of a self-driving and self-gassing and self-oil changing and self-tire changing car that hasn't been computer programmed (which would be a mind doing all of that for it) and isn't being remote controlled and for your peer reviewed evidence that there is no Mind behind the universe, and there will be no more debate between us!!! All of that should be child's play for you to come up with, since you say that that is "just science", and so I'll be expecting it very quickly!! Then we can both move on to other discussions. The ball is now in your court!! So, where is your evidence of a mindless universe running itself, that doesn't just satisfy you and your ilk that it's "true", but actually objective people, who are willing to be convinced, if you can come up with that evidence!! No more evasiveness and just come up with that evidence, and let's be done with this and you can "enlighten the world with that evidence"!!!
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Lionheart
Do you see what I mean Robert, there really is no hope for Mr. Partin? He even firmly believes atheism is a cult. 🤣🤣🤣
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John D. Partin
Do YOU!!! see what I mean about you, CHL, that you are afraid to answer my points and questions to you because that would prove that you don't know what in the Hell you are talking about and expose your position as ignorant, closed-minded, wrong-headed, and stupid, and so you can only use your evasive tactics?!! I made you the offer in my post above of your giving me even ONE!! example of a car's without a driver or not being remote controlled or computer programmed driving itself across country and pulling itself into gas stations for fill-ups and changing its own oil and tires and sending me your peer reviewed paper of evidence for a mindless universe running itself and our debate on this matter will be OVER!! So, what is the hold-up with that paper and example of that self-driving car, since you say that that is how the universe works, and so it should be very easy for you to send me those things?!! I'll be waiting for your example and peer reviewed evidence very soon now!! Until then, I'm not wrong, and what a mindless car can't do for itself, a much bigger and more complex mindless universe can't do for itself, either, and, in fact, incalculably less so!! Put up or shut up and admit that you are WRONG!!!! and I'm RIGHT!!!!
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John D. Partin
Nobody could ever be any blinder than you are, CHL, and leading other blind people further into your stupidity of believing in "a mindless universe running itself" and "prayers not being answered by anyone" and the rest of your atheistic faith and religion!! You will be held accountable for your leading other people deeper into errors and lies!!
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Kenneth E. Salvage Sr
Very good comment Brother!
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Lionheart — you predict that no one will prove the existence of God — am I correct in that what you really meant, was that no one would prove the existence of the Christian God — and, if so, I agree with you.
We Secular Humanist Pantheists (SHP’ers) can prove the existence of God — because it’s obvious once it’s brought to your attention, that God and Nature are the same thing.
Thomas Jefferson, Einstein and John Adams knew this too
Want a provable God — concert to Pantheism.
Want a useful God— to satisfy your parents — become a Pantheist.
Want to still say “God bless you” when someone sneezes; Pantheisms for you.
Want to be a candidate for public office?
Then Pantheisms for you.
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Lionheart
I guess we all have our Gods don’t we, William. I think mine is Dionysus, and Bacchus, the god of wines, and possibly ale 🤭
Is there one for football 🇬🇧. (Soccer 🇺🇸) ? 🦁❤️
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Ann
This is nothing but virtue signalling to cause division for political reasons and it's gotten a lot more attention here than it did on Twitter.
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Michael Barton
It's offenses. Cut all funding to the museum or fire the staff that decided to put fiction into a museum. That or ask the museum to sell their inventory.
The whole point of a museum is to keep history in tact. Not to create fiction to appease those that are mentally ill.
If you've donated to this museum, ask for your money back.
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Nicholas Dimitropoulos
Yes Jesus was a man and yes there are only two biological sexes and yes the Germans are idiots.
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Denesi Kathleen Ludwick-Barnes
this is a disgrace, anyone who reads the bible knows it. it is an abomination in Gods eyes.
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Edwin Merle Waltz
Wish gay and transgender ppl would quit shoving this crap down everyone’s throat
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David Arthur Lewis
And I wish christian and self-righteous people would quit shoving their crap down everyone's throat.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Amen
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Rev Nolan
Amen!!!
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James Riggle-Johnson
I wish str8 people would stop making us watch them holding hands and kissing because it's discussting to us. It all a matter of perspective.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I bet if you quit hanging out in gay bars Edwin you would never again here it.
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Rev Nolan
Behave. Not acceptable response.
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Rev Nolan
I am far from being offended by a transgender Jesus; however, in accordance with the time, place, culture, traditions, objective of his mission, and so forth, I don’t believe a transgender Jesus would have been receptive enough for his words and actions to be recorded in the many ways we have them today. At age 30+, for example, without a wife in his life and trying to have children with her, he would not be given the time of day, so, without a doubt, Jesus of the New Testament, at least, was definitely married, had children, and consorted with his peers in the most morally acceptable while often controversial manner as possible without cutting his life shorter than need be. That is not to say I don’t reserve the possibility of him having discrete homosexual relationships in a Roman pansexual influence.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Rev Nolan; how can you opine “without a doubt” then go on to cite something from a book (the Christian Bible) a book no one knows who wrote, about a bunch of who knows is who, witch is obviously myth-based, and features someone named Jesus — who no one who wrote this Bible, ever met- nor did any of the Romans or Jews, who were supposed to have actually observed many parts of what’s now “Christian Mythology.”
The ULC ministries should sponsor a forum, about the Holy Ghost, then at least there would be Casper the Ghost, who could be used as an examplar.
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Rev Nolan
Actually, I’m shaking my head at your response. Primarily, I presented facts about traditions of the day. You have access to the same people I do who are familiar with Jewish traditions and culture of Jesus’s day as well, so rather than opining, I made a rather appropriate “assessment,” or did you overlook that fact?
We know the historical facts of the Bible and we have archeological proof about various episodes mentioned therein. That doesn’t prove it’s true or reliable, but we can assess by the history and archeology available to us when the events mentioned therein transpired. Sure, many things in the Bible may or might not be myth, but in my assessment, I think you need to learn to read better.
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Philip Joseph Ryan
This play was written by a transgender person, they are a tiny minority within the lgbt community, and they aren't representative of it. Many gay Christians would be equally offended, or upset by this representation, so your comments are an insult to them. It's a pity that you don't appear to have any Christian virtues.
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Stacey Owens
This is nothing but blasphemy.
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Lionheart
Infamy! Infamy! Everyone has it in for me. 😇
🦁♥️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That doesn't include me, Lionheart. I think very highly of you, my good friend.
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Lionheart
Happy New Year Carl🎉 🍷
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Thanks Lionheart, and Happy New Year to you! That reminds me to look for my Guy Lombardo tape, so I can listen to Auld Lang Syne, at midnight. Then again, if I can't find it (with minimal effort) I can Google it on this phone. However, I must say, it sounds better on my Victrola.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Furthermore Lionheart, I can't think of anyone on this blog who I like as much as you
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Stacey Owens
I just want to say, Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year!
Jesus Christ loves you no matter what.😜
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Lionheart
Thank you very much Stacy. Have a very happy new year.
All the little fairies 🧚♀️, elves, and gnomes love you too.🤗
🦁❤️
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Stacey Owens
Lionheart,
You can keep your imaginary fairies, gnome, and elves with in your own mind.
Remember, they give you your hope.
You know, the hope you believe in that their is no God.
I know who lives in me. Christ Jesus the hope of Glory.
He lives with in me. I and Christ are one.
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Lionheart
Thank you Stacey. You have atheists all wrong. We only believe there is no Allah, Yahweh, Krishna, Brahma, Vishnu, et al, because there currently is no evidence for any of them.
I’m sure you would agree with my views about four of these in as much that they are not real. If that is true, then you have atheist beliefs about four of them, I have atheist beliefs about five of them. None of them give me hope, as you suggest they might.
So, you can keep your imaginary deity in your own mind, and that’s totally ok. Billions are keeping Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Krishna, Santa, and even fairies in theirs if that’s what they need.
🦁❤️
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John D. Partin
The same as you keep your mythical "mindless universe running itself" in your mind, evidently because it fulfills some need for you, such as not wanting to face the truth and have basic common sense, reason, and logic about the universe, which would shake up your whole little world and make you rethink everything---and you don't want to do that!! You can keep that imaginary concept or your "god" in your mind, if you want to, because you are afraid to let go of it, and we reject your "god", too!!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Stacey Owens You stated, "I know who lives in me. Christ Jesus the hope of Glory. He lives with in me. I and Christ are one.
Sounds you are possessed and have multiple personality disorder.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If you'd like to hear more blasphemy Stacie please let me know.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Such as, Stacie, I wonder why Jesus the hermaphrodite never impregnated shimself? Was shim waiting for an immaculate conception?
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Stacey Owens
You speak as if you know but what you understand is your our ego.
You relish in a place of your own understanding that is a dark and you stumble on the corner stone of truth.
You and Lionheart can not accept that Christ is in you. He is the power in you, not you.
All through your life and what ever though that was in your mind caused what you did to achieve in life. But your constantly hostile to the notion that God's mercy led you this far in life. But all the while you thought you thought you were in control.
You never gave God the glory. When you read this you will think in the form of your ego and mock it.
The thing is, you will be lead by your conscious thoughts (your carnel mind).
This is why I can deny what you think. The part of you that reject the truth: (Christ in you). The love of God.
I know you will try to prove all this is foolishness. I know you will have to use the evidence of other minds other than your to try to show God doesn't exist.
All you will prove is that your existence is meaningless.
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Robert Edward Szekely
I recommend that we all not to preach here, and just keep it to the level of debate. If I want to hear a sermon, I'll go visit your church.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
This is stupid, every male ever born is transgender. Anyone who has studied human development knows this. All human life begins as a female. It's only IF the sex chromosomes start producing testosterone that male characteristics begin to develop. One out of every 200 live births results in some for of sex abnormality. Jesus had a 1 in 200 chance having a sex abnormality so being a transgender is a possibility.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You should have atleast one ULC doctorate before you start talking like that, Douglas.
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Marina Leigh Catalano
Douglas Robert spindler. You are incorrect. Our sex is determined AT CONCEPTION by which chromosomes the father contributes to the mothers xx. If the father contributes yx=male. If father contributes xx=female. HUMANS DO NOT BEGIN EXISTENCE AS FEMALES, OUR SEX IS DETERMINED BEFORE WE EXIST BY PARENTAL CHROMOSOMES, MEANING WE ARE MALE OR FEMALE FOR OUR LIFETIME AT CONCEPTION. OUR "gonads" develop in our abdomen at 6 weeks gestation and move into place by 12 weeks of gestation, female ovaries in place on both sides of the uterus, male testes on both sides of the penis. This takes place when we are smaller than a sesame seed in the mothers uterus. This is irrefutable, incontrovertible PROVEN FACT. 100%. The RARE anomalies that the mentally ill homosexual "trans" community tries to make out to be "the norm" (lol pun intended) are SO NEGLIGIBLE that they are only mentioned in passing. if such a thing as homosexuality COULD BE detected by Genetic testing, or CRISPR, BELIEVE IT, that would be WONDERFUL because then it COULD BE EDITED OUT OF EXISTENCE ALONG WITH OTHER DEBILITATING "ILLNESSES" ! But sadly it's only a psychiatric issue which is MUCH harder to TREAT, CURE AND IRADICATE. Though illness has nothing to do with the fact that we are what sex we are at conception and nothing can change OUR CHROMOSOMAL MAKEUP AFTER WE EXIST. PERIOD. If you can't deal with that then it's your weakness, NOT THE WORLDS FAULT SO DO NOT EXPECT SPECIAL RULES TO APPLY TO YOU! life is survival of the fittest and weakness like that should and will go extinct and THAT IS WHAT SOCIETY SHOULD PROMOTE, the CURE for the illness of weakness.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Marina Leigh Catalano Thank you for your post. Everything you posted was true and what we believed 40 - 50 years ago. Thanks to modern research we now know what was once thought as being "true" is no longer. There is much more going on when if comes to determining sex. In fact one out of every 200 live births results in a sexual anomality. In your lifetime I'm sure you have meet many good people who have a sex anomaly, heck you might be one of them. I invite you to do some research on Human Development... We now know without a doubt all fertilized human eggs and all human life starts out being female. This is what the evidence shows us. There is no question about it.
If you do some additional research you will find the "sex" chromosome are NOT what determines the sex of an individual. We now know many of the autosomes and hormonal expression is what determines if the fetus will be "male", "female", male and female, intersex, or no-sex.
It's really sad you propagate old outdated believes instead of what we actually know.
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John Camp Bernay III
It is quite probable that Jesus Christ was eaten by his followers
Did not Jesus Christ imagine his death and resurrection in a similar way – that he would resurrect in his disciples who would have eaten his flesh and would have drunk his blood? According to ‘Saint’ John, Jesus Christ explained: ‘The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me, and I in him’. (John, 6, 56; italics are mine, G.Š.) The Eucharist
Having assumed that the first Eucharist was not symbolic, but real and took place not before Christ’s death, but on the following night, the ritual itself appears in a completely different light – it is clear now how the rite managed to unite Christians.
After all, nothing has such power of uniting people as a common secret or crime. When people have performed religious rituals that others consider to be inhuman or even criminal, they feel initiated, special different from others.
Even now, the Eucharist remains one of the basic rituals that maintain Christian unity. Eating together the imaginary god’s flesh can be also called ‘communion’ – metaphoric acceptance to the community of the Christians who have already performed the ritual or further acceleration of the sense of being one of the Christians. Inclination towards passive cannibalism is psychologically possible
It is no secret that Jesus Christ was not a psychically balanced personality. The absence of information about one’s biological father was considered by the ancient Jews to be an irremovable stain, and there is a lot of information in the Bible about the eccentricity of Christ that manifested itself already in his childhood.
Therefore, it is quite possible that Jesus Christ could wish to be eaten. Even nowadays, there are some people who crave to be eaten; even the broad public from time to time is informed of some individual cases of pre-agreed cannibalism – when the ‘victim’ finds their future eater via the Internet or so. It is possible that Jesus Christ also had such a drive. The Christian cannibalistic mysticism is apparently still encouraging psychological deviations
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John D. Partin
John Camp Bernay III, your suggestion that Jesus' followers literally ate his flesh and drank his blood after his crucifixion is certainly the most insane, blasphemous, and ludicrous thing that I have ever read from anyone else here!!! "What does the Bible say about cannibalism?---www.gotquestions.org" and "Were the First Christians Cannibals? 'Eat My Flesh, Drink My Blood'---www.journeywithjesus.net" refute your suggestion!! So, go and read them. The Jews of that time and still today considered and consider cannibalism to be deeply immoral and Jesus' followers were Jews .They symbolically ate his "flesh" and drank his "blood" in the Eucharistic bread and wine. The crime, as even you admit that it would have been, of their eating his actual flesh and drinking his blood wouldn't have united them, as you suggest, because they would have been racked with guilt over that!! Your suggestion is only more of the modern ungodly disrespect for Jesus that is being shown everywhere today!!! The only thing that could have united Jesus' followers would have been his physical resurrection and that alone sensibly explains their transformation from hopeless and frightened men into bold preachers of Christ to other people, even willing to go to martyrs' deaths for it. They wouldn't have been willing to go to martyrs' deaths over something that they knew to be a lie and was just made up by themselves or over "having just eaten Jesus". INSANE!!! So, he actually resurrected!! But because you and other people can't or won't believe that, you come up with such ridiculous "ideas" as "his followers eating him" to "explain" their boldness, which, clearly, don't work!!!
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John Camp Bernay III
Marina Leigh Catalano you are insane. Please Seek Mental Health.
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Rev Mark D
I'd sure trust that Jesus a whole lot more with a buck than all those millionaire and billionaire televangelists.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
In researching my family, looks like one of my grampa's maternal side cousins was Gay, and wed his Battle Buddy from WW2.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I bet they spent a lot of time in a 🦊 hole together, didn't they Ealdormon?
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The Gray Minister
I think it was a good idea.
Jesus was all trying to bring people together. To Love one another no matter who they were. Jesus walked out of the bar. He was not thrown out. Jesus showed this many times.
To what I can recall most of all the stuff said about the alternative life style is against Hebrew law Then people tried to carry it into the New Testament.
But Jesus loved everyone.
I’m sure back in those days alternative life was going on. Why would they say don’t dress in the opposite. Why would they say don’t lie as a women would with a man if you were with a man.
Sure I get it all mixed up because the bible stuff gets my blood boiling because of all the hate
I like to just read the words in red
I being a M2F Crossdresser and this voice telling me I’m Jesus Christ Super star everytime I ask what my life path is. I’m like yeah what ever. I know I would have to just forgive them for what they do because not many read the bible on their own. Their taught how to read and understand the book
I look at it like this.
If we are to believe that God made us in his image. Then God is both male and female. If God was not both male and female then females would of never been made. He would of just made another male for Adam.
Even though Eve was the Third women made for Adam. But first God made Lilith from the same clay Adam was made from. But Adam would not look at Lilith as Equal. So she left him.
But God is said to of made all of us in his image so God must be both male and female.
Even though if you read the word right. Genesis:Ch1-V26: Let US(being key word and not saying he was alone) Make man in OUR(again key word and again is saying he was not alone)
God was just a title that made him in charge of the group that Was called Elohim.
Rael.org Explains in Intelligent Design that we humans were made so that extraterrestrial DNA would be found with in our DNA so that if they disappeared that if their creator showed up some day that their creation would be found with in our DNA. Its a wild read but I still believe in a Higher Power that Goddess/God links to to allow a Higher Thought process to evolve to a better level.
Ok I've went on long enough.
The Gray Minister (ULC)
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm glad to hear that some christians are starting to believe that God is also Goddess. Someday that could even lead them to becoming born again Pagans. I'll give a great big "Blessed be" to that!
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Lionheart
Well, as I’ve mentioned before Carl, if God had nipples he had some very weird things going on in his genetic makeup. Perhaps God’s dad was actually transgender, which would explain a lot 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Dave crandall
Would it matter? Minister Dave
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John D. Partin
At least, I can agree with you on being very sorry for some wives, since they didn't know what they were getting when they decided to hook up with those men and didn't know what it would transform them into, too!! They end up going along with whatever idiocy their husbands spew forth because they feel that it is required of them and those men, sometimes, have doctorates in various fields, in order to make their nonsense sound more "intelligent", which, of course, doesn't change their idiocy into actual intelligence or common sense, but only makes them "educated" fools!! When even the obvious eludes such men, all their talk of how "intelligent" and "worldly wise" they are is shown to be an empty sham!! I'm certain that you feel the same way and are glad that you don't know (and never will personally truly know!) any such men as that and agree that those women would be far better off without them than they are with them!! That is why these wives, when they discover what shallow and pretentious fools their husbands are, often divorce or just leave them, and the only wives who stay with these kinds of "men" are those who are too far gone or dependent on them to ever be able to figure that out!! Conversely, if these husbands were truly considerate of their wives, they would just walk out on them or divorce them and give these women some chance of returning to a normal and healthy life and way of thinking!! The Apostles left their wives for the different reason of following the teachings of Jesus and preaching and spreading His words, which you discount, and not because they weren't any good for their wives and to give them a break from the stupidity that they had imposed on them. Even today, some men wear bathrobes and kilts and very long coats and shirts, which would, consistently in your "judgment", also have to be considered "dresses" or "miniskirts". You didn't mention your own practice in this regard, considering your former or still present English nationality and drag's being a common practice in England (The Ruling Class, David Bowie, Charlie Chaplin, etc.), but I'm sure that that couldn't be anything that you personally are involved in, right? Many men get conventionally married to women for the purpose of hiding their rainbow 🌈 side, as you may have even heard or have some knowledge about. That is no reflection on their fathers or a great many more fathers would be under suspicion or just clearly shown to be gay or transgender than is the case now and so I'm sure that your question about "Jesus' father God's being transgender because of some alleged or misunderstood 'transgenderism' on Jesus' part" was just a sad attempt at "humor" (excuse me, "humour") and misstatement on your part. Some do stick with being female inside after their first few weeks of gestation and after birth and throughout their lives, which you, again, of course, wouldn't personally know anything about. If your wife is looking over shoulder again, try not to be too concerned about her reading some parts of this post, if it gets put on, or about her looking at you and shaking her head sadly as she walks away!! I'm sure that it means nothing!!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I bet a lot of those secretive rainbow husbands have hunting cabins in the woods, where they spend weekends with their buddies.
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Lionheart
Thank you for bringing humor to John’s rant. He seems so possessed with trying to get his point across, which somehow, he never quite seems to do, no matter how much he writes, and spends time doing it. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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John D. Partin
Your not admitting that I'm getting my points across and my not getting them across are two entirely different and polar opposite things, once again. Actually, you know all too well how accurate I am about you and that it is too close for comfort, which is why you try to pass it off as a "rant" and claim that you "aren't affected by it", which we both know that you are and that I have shown your true nature here!! The more that you deny it, the more you show that you know in your heart that I have precisely exposed your pretentiousness and hypocrisy and illogic!!! Just keep lying to yourself, since it's all that you know how to do and your only defense against the truth about yourself!!!
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Daniel Gray
Typically what I would expect from some left wing Germans. lets see them prove it.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, I think those loud and aggressive persons are hilarious! I wouldn't think to avoid them. I only ever care to egg them on. And if that's a character defect, it's one I'll never care to get rid of, so don't expect to ever see me in Nirvana. Haven't you heard "It's better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven". I still might sometimes go to Heaven for the climate (when I can sneak past St. Peter( right after smoking another cigarette), but damn sure not for the company.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Well, it's about time I take my fat burning supplements, so in a half hour I can eat those four pieces of Shake n Bake chicken that are in my gas oven. After that I'll take my multiple vitamins. I would have taken them this morning, but I wanted to make sure I was still awake at midnight, so I can share my last litre of spiked eggnog, with those of my neighbors who are still up, to usher in the new year. Happy New Year!!!
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John D. Partin
You speak as though from personal experience with one of those secretive rainbow husbands and, perhaps, the subject of the post above? Many happy returns there and more of your favorite pastime!!
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Gary Richard Noce
I believe Jesus was a man. BUT, His views on gender was neutral.
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Gary Richard Noce
I believe Jesus was a ma. BUT, His views on gender was neutral.
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Gary Richard Noce
I believe Jesus was a ma. BUT, His views on gender was neutral.
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Kenneth E. Salvage Sr
This story is just another symptom of Mass Formation Psychosis of the world population as defined by Mr Malone recently! Its best to to just read through the new and old testament and try to understand what the word of God actually has to say on issues like this! Abnormal people are still gods children even if their life styles are disgusting to normal people. Hate the sins but love the sinner is how god whats us to handle these poor sick sinners! He will be the final Judge of their outcome!
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Robert Edward Szekely
Based on the premise that "Jesus is God" and that God is to have said "Man and Woman, We have created them in Our Image", this would indicate that the categories (or dichotomies, if you prefer) of gender were also a Divine creation, and not eternally pre-existing. So are we essentially trying to go back and impose our current worldview upon that which predates our very existence, based on our understanding of how things currently exist in the world as it has ever been known to us?
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Denesi Kathleen Ludwick-Barnes
That is disgraceful. I believe in what the Bible says. and he was not transgender this woke stuff has got to stop.It is an abomination from what is in the good book.
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Marina Leigh Catalano
There is no such "thing" as "trans" it was "made up" by the mentally ill homosexual community. It is based on the FALSE, delusional, ridiculous,, laughable theory of SOME homosexuals that males can LITERALLY TURN themselves into females with hormones, plastic surgery, AND by wearing female clothing. Again, this is a LUDICROUS idea which is COMPLETELY 100% FALSE! Their language amongst each other is even MORE SICKENING! for example, they call their anus "a boy p***y". And that's just ONE SICKENING detail! Now if this were truly JUST about "equality" (which is not) that would be one thing however, this group of sexual deviants is practicing homosexual pedophilia out in the open claiming that it's a good thing that THEY ARE turning little boys INTO HOMOSEXUALS?! NO. NO IT IS NOT. It's a horrible unconscionable, ILLEGAL thing to DO TO A CHILD and MUST BE PUNISHED AS SUCH! as soon as conservatives regain political control of the house, IT WILL BE PUNISHED AS IT SHOULD BE! Every individual who has advocated for homosexuals to be allowed to molest, corrupt, and coerce American children with their "trans" lie, OR ENCOURAGED children to defy and lie to parents so that they could mutilate, maim, and disfigure their bodies, OR THE DOCTORS who have made A FORTUNE off of the suffering and abuse of vulnerable children coerced by mentally ill predators, all will be CHARGED, CONVICTED AND JAILED FOR YOUR CRIMES and the vomitous, reprehensible "trans lie" will be QUASHED, burned and buried along with the drag queens who promoted this vile "trend"! BTW, ALL you homosexual crossdressers WILL BE JAILED IN MENS PRISONS WITH OTHER MALES as you should be, but its OK, THEY LIKE YOUR KIND IN PRISONS! YOU'LL LOVE IT WHERE YOU CAN GET ALL THE DEVIANT SEXUAL ENCOUNTERS YOU WANT 24/7/365! Just NOT WITH CHILDREN and you won't get to shove your sickness in the publics face, too bad for you but A GODSEND for the public that you disgust, offend and have harmed.
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Aron Mark Doherty
Your view of the world is truly sick and twisted. The degree of detail in your BS post tells me that you are the pervert. The world will be a better place when you are not here, and that is a real fact.
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Eric B Peterson
Jesus, being a Rabbi, would be observing Gods Law as spelled out in Leviticus and elsewhere. While Jesus did say that the eating of prohibited foods did not damage one's soul, he gave no such dispensation against the prohibition of homosexual practices. He surely would have mentioned that.
I am sure his closest companion. Mary Magdalen, would have known if Jesus was trans.
Jesus was also against "cherry picking" or treating God's Law as an ala Carte choice which is what many in our post modern era wish to do.
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Marina Leigh Catalano
I hope that those who wrote, support, and promote this vomitous, OFFENSIVE DREK BURN HERE ON EARTH BEFORE OUR VERY EYES.
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Alan Diamond
Another fine example of Christian love
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Jim Rosenberg
its really very silly, but if Christ is Queen of Heaven where does that leave the Virgin Mary. It seems to me to denigrate women. Also, God isn't a big person on a throne, one can't imagine God any more than an ant can imagine a nuclear reactor.
Religion is so much more than silliness, but its good for a laugh.
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Rev Nolan
Your post caused me to picture an ant 🐜 carrying a nuclear reactor on his back.
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Robin Aaron Bright
Transgender isn't the appropriate term. Bruce Jenner, the US athlete, was transgender, because he adopted the role of a woman but kept his penis, that is, surgery to have female attributes can be classified as TG, while TV or transvestite is wearing women's clothes without necessarily having surgery, which is the case for TGs too. Either way the individual who chooses such a lifestyle isn't gay by reference to what is meant by homosexual, a confusion arising from lesbians being described as 'gay', whereas women who have both gender attributes as a normative aspect of their lives are properly termed futa, which is the suggestion about Jesus, that is, he was a male futa, which is neither TG, TV, or gay, but normative for males and females of that type.
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Doctor Loyal
Hmmm,
"In a move that some are calling wildly offensive, a German Bible museum recast Jesus as a transgender woman in a play… just weeks before Christmas."
Hubris, fictional non-history, and offensive portrayal of Jesus is neither professional, nor is it acceptable behavior for an organization that touts itself as a "German Bible Museum". A museum would display factual, non-biased, and historic elements, something that this rag-tag self-inflated outfit has failed to do. Perhaps a change in either name or charter should be implemented to remedy the obvious fallacies inherent in this organization's activities.
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John Camp Bernay III
There is no such "thing" as "Jesus Christ" it was "made up"
Marina Leigh Catalano "trans" it was "made up" by the mentally ill homosexual community. If we assume that Jesus Christ (his corpse) after the crucifixion was eaten by his followers, we can explain not only the Christian cannibalistic mysticism, but also many other mysteries of Christianity. The rituals of the Eucharist are similar to the ceremonies of the true cannibalsNon-Christians have always been confused by the rituals that simulate eating the body of Jesus Christ (Joshua from Nazareth, the Christian prophet, worshiped as a god or god’s son) or drinking his blood. While eating special consecrated wafers or drinking wine, Catholics, the Orthodox and many other Christians imagine that these are the body and blood of their prophet (or god). Most Christians imagine that by doing this they get closer to their god, acquire a kind of divinity themselves, and some of them even fall into ecstasy.
These rituals by their form and meaning remind of the rites of many known cannibalistic cultures – the true cannibals ate people (perhaps they are still doing this in some regions of Africa and Asia) not because they were starving, but because they believed that by eating up a man or a certain part of his body they would overtake his power and courage.
In almost the same way, Christians eat the imaginary body and blood of Jesus Christ not because they are hungry, but because they want to obtain sacredness, unity with Jesus Christ, who has resurrected (as they believe), and to consolidate the Christian solidarity. It is still not known what actually happened to the body of Jesus Christ
To the fact that the corpse of Jesus Christ disappeared from the tomb where it was left till the end of the Sabbath, Christians refer as a miracle, they present it as the proof of their prophet’s divinity or even his later resurrection. It is a strange argument – apparently, nobody who could not be interested in proving Christ’s divinity guarded the tomb (it will be considered later in this article), so the corpse could have been taken away and transported to another burial place. Didn’t the scene of the ‘Last supper’ imply an order to eat up Jesus’ body after his death? The so-called ‘Last supper’, which took place immediately before the Christ’s arrest and crucifixion, is described in several places of the New Testament. During it, Jesus Christ ordered his disciples to eat bread and to drink wine and suggested that these were his body and blood.
The Eucharist has its origins in the ‘Last supper’; however, it looks as if Jesus Christ had in his mind his own true flesh and blood when he spoke about the bread and wine during the ‘Last supper’.
The following thoughts of Jesus Christ are cited in the Gospel according to John: ‘Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life <…> For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. <…> This is the bread that came down from heaven…’ (John, 6, 53-58)
Christian theologians usually interpret this as a metaphor. Such an interpretation corresponds best with the interests of Christianity, but the words by no means sound metaphorically in the original text of the Gospel.
If Jesus Christ perceived his body and blood as a meal that had to be eaten, then it seems that the scene of the ‘Last supper’ – is nothing but the last reminder to the followers about their obligation to eat up their teacher’s body.
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Lionheart
You are so right Mr. Bernay. You will find John Partin won’t agree, but as you will more than likely find out, he’s very much way out in left field regarding religion.
Great post!
🦁❤️
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John D. Partin
"Way out in left field", according to you when you don't even know the truth about yourself and so couldn't possibly know the truth about me or anyone else, is better than not even being in the ball park, which is your situation!!!
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John D. Partin
Your considering "Jesus' followers literally eating his flesh and drinking his blood" to be "center field thinking" and Jesus' followers only symbolically eating his flesh and drinking his blood to be "way out in left field thinking" are more proof (if any more were needed!) that you don't know what in the the Hell you are talking about and don't know the difference between center field and left field thinking.
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Lionheart
You’re replying here to your own post, John. I don’t think you’re well. You really need to get help. Let me know if I can help you. It’s clear your God isn’t going to do it. Please take care.
🦁❤️
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John D. Partin
Your considering my replying to John Camp Bernay III's post to be replying to my own post is more evidence (if any more were really needed!!) that it is YOU!!! who need some serious help and just toss out accusations without even thinking about what you are saying! But why would that be any different than what you do all of the rest of the time?!! Go and get yourself some help and God will help you with all of that, if you will let Him, which is far more than you are ever doing for anyone else in here or out in the world, if you were honest, for a change!! I don't waste my time on hopeless cases or cast pearls in front of pigs or I would try to do something for you, too. Try to get better, somehow.
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Lionheart
Nope! You replied, Jan 14, to your own post of Jan 10th. Take a look John. I’m sorry you don’t have the intelligence to sort it out in your head, but am I surprised? Nope!
Please get well!
🦁❤️
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John D. Partin
It's called an extension and elaboration of one's thoughts, not answering my own posts, but since you never have any thoughts at all, you wouldn't know anything about that!! This is way over your head and so don't embarrass yourself any more by trying to engage in this discussion, but just keep playing with yourself even harder and trying to drain off those excess fluids that have backed up into your "brain", since that is all that you can handle and you are working overtime with that!
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John D. Partin
CHL, the word "infamy" was properly applied to December 7th, 1941 by Franklin Delano Roosevelt for the Empire of Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor and some other events in history, but doesn't fit some people's daring to criticize and disagree with you!! Once again, your overblown ego is causing you to make false comparisons and claims!!!
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John D. Partin
CHL, "Jesus' followers eating his actual flesh and drinking his blood" being, according to you, "sensible and in center field thinking", while saying, actually sensibly, that his followers only symbolically ate his flesh and drank his blood being, again according to you, "way out in left field" is just more proof (if any more proof were needed!) that you don't know what in the Hell you are talking about or the difference between center field or left field thinking!!!!
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TheSound.com
The Bible traslated into English has many names for "Jesus" except his real first name in Hebrew was Yeshua, which is short for Yehōshu'a and translates into English as Joshua. Yes, the Bible so often quoted does not even get his name correct. Yeshua, rather than being transgender, non-binary, is better described as transhuman, which means "a being that resembles a human in most respects but who has powers and abilities beyond those of standard humans."
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John D. Partin
Carl Bernard Elfstrom, only those who aren't in Hell (after death, anyway, even if in it already in this life) can say or "think" that "It is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven" because the reality is the exact opposite and the humblest servant in Heaven is far better off than Satan is in charge of Hell. Logically, the devils wouldn't have been cast out of Heaven in order to be sent to a "far better place for them", since they were already in the best possible place in the universe and didn't want that, anymore, and so they are suffering in Hell along with the damned!! Nazi commandants of death camps were in that Hell, too, and were oppressed by the devils and depressed by those places, too. Hollywood celebrities and rich and famous people and illegal drug lords, despite appearing to have "everything they need to be happy", are often very miserable people!! Howard Hughes was reigning in his private Hell here on Earth, but was tormented by his personal demons, despite having billions of dollars and great power, and died worse than a skid row bum wearing Kleenex boxes for "shoes" and having needles broken off in his arms!! So, this "better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven" nonsense is obvious propaganda and brainwashing that people inflict on themselves to "justify" their staying in their Hellish situations. You are free to mock God and Heaven and St. Peter to your heart's content in this world with little or no consequences, but getting away with it here isn't the same as actually getting away with it because this world isn't all that there is, even if you "think" that it is, and there is another world after this one and a next judgment and stage coming for us all, where we will be judged and pay for every idle word and wrong thing that we have ever said or done that we haven't repented of at death!! As Jesus said: "Woe unto you who laugh now, for you shall mourn".
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John Peter Dugan
I would say probably asexual because if he werent then people will really get crazy upset...
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Kenneth Washington
When creations began, sex was not in the plan by God. only man, due to disobeying God and sinning on his own made the decision to have sex in the equation. God called out the Adam and Eve who had tried hide themselves from God and God noticed that they had covered themselves because they were naked and God said, who told you that you were naked? God didn't tell them. sex was discovered after God created man.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Kenneth Washington That might be what it states in the Bible, but we know it's wrong. ALL humans begin life as females. Ask any doctor or biologist who is knowledgeable about human development. Only after 6 weeks have passed, are the first signs of sex differentiation observed as male hormones are released. If the male hormone levels are low, then the fetus will continue to develop female features. We know man comes from a women.
Please update your Bible to reflect what we known for nearly 200 years.
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Lionheart
Did you read all this in a book somewhere, Kenneth?
Just as an FYI, the Book of Mormon, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Harry Potter books, are also fictional. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
The operative word in this question is “was” as in “was” Jesus a transsexual — when the question should have been, “is” Jesus still a transsexual?
And the answer is “no” — unless non-existent, mythological characters can be of whatever sexual orientation the myth writer wants them to be.
A related question: If the Christian God so hates the gay — why did it make so God-damn many of them?
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John D. Partin
William Dusenberry, in answer to your second question, God doesn't hate gay people, but hates what they do (and it is only the current propaganda that says that you can't hate anything that people are doing without "hating them") and God didn't create so many gay people, but, rather, distorted nature, due to sin, and false compassion, the current homophile propaganda, and social acceptance created them. Firstly, someone who is fictional can't be crucified, as extra-Biblical sources report that Jesus was under the Roman governor Pontius Pilate during his reign and the disciples wouldn't have been willing to die and have suffered martyrdom for someone who never existed and that they knew that they had just made up. So, their martyrdom proves that Jesus did exist and died on the cross and raised from the dead or else they couldn't have gone on to be such bold witnesses for Christ---for someone who didn't rise from the dead, as He said that He would!!
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Jeremy Dale Morgan
AMEN. God gave us free will to decide what we believe and what we do not believe. Is it too hard to allow someone to have their own belief without trying to cut them down? I believe that God sent Jesus to die for my sins and those of everyone else. Am I trying to make you drink the same Kool-Aid that I drink from? The answer is NO and that is your free will of choice. So, since I am not asking you to drink from the same Kool-Aid, then is everyone else trying to make me drink the same Kool-Aid that they are CHOOSING to believe. The one true God is my God and I do not care if you believe or not. I would that you would and do, but I will never make or force you to believe it.
Now I know people will probably get upset and take up arms, this is your CHOICE. and again, God's free will he gave us, but do you believe and a minister we should be FORCING beliefs on one another?
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The whole point of this play is that christian people are so biased and bigoted and filled with hatred that they cannot see Jesus in someone who is different. EVERY human is created by god in god's image and should be treated as such. As Jesus themself said, "Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Matthew 25:40 KJV
It EVERY human is created by god in god's image does that mean God and Jesus are black, white, brown, Chinese, straight, bi, gay, and transgender.
Let's not forget every man begins life as a female. It's only if the sex chromosomes start producing testosterone that male characteristics begin to develop.
What you fail to understand is that God is not a physical person. God is a SPIRIT. And YES, God is all those things and much much more all at the same time. And it's true whether we mortals understand it or not.
What you fail to understand is that God is not a physical person. God is a invention of common men who use Terrorism to Keep People Docile. The very idea that a life of terrorism against Sanity and a Secret ""God"" that Hears your Thoughts and will Send You To Hell for Wrong Thinking is ludicrous and only Morons believe, like YOU. Scientists who study the Inner-workings of the Planet know there is No Hell in the Bowell's of the Earth, so obviously people with enough mind to read science debunk of 'Burning in a Lake Of Fire" as total bovine scatology are Not Christians. Only a FOOL would believe God is all those things and much much more all at the same time. You sound like a Idiotic Moron. Please rethink you idiotic scatological platform, is stinks, shit-scat smells bad.
"Scientists who study the Inner-workings of the Planet knowing there is No Hell in the Bowels of the Earth" haven't, thereby, disproved Hell in another dimension, since it was never down in the center of the Earth and God doesn't send anyone there, anyway, because those who go there send themselves there!! God isn't an "invention of men who use terrorism to keep people docile" because "people's inventing God" doesn't explain the universe and laws and interconnection of them for its operation, which a mindless universe without a Mind behind it couldn't do, and so God came up with people and the universe, not people coming up with Him. What kind of idiot would believe in Hell down in the ground or else nowhere, people's being sent to Hell by God or else not going there by sending themselves there, or God's "being an invention of common men who use terrorism to keep people docile", instead of the creator and maintainer of the universe?!! Oh, yes, obviously you!!! Clean up your "thinking" because it really stinks!!!
The part you don't understand is the image and likeness means glory of God, that part was created. As for the human body that part was formed.
The part God wants is the spirit man He created: the life, the spoken word of God.
When God created man in their image, you know, when God said, now let us make man of our own image. The color was not an issue, the nationality was not the issue. God created flowers and flowers blooms in many different colors just as all other things created by God. It's in the spiritual since of God's creations. God knows all of his creations, but the difference in the many creations, as well as people, The difference is for us humans to know of the difference so we can identify everything and everyone. God did give man dominants over everything and to name all things in the land. God created animals of their kind and created man of a human/spiritual image of him. God is many and all things of his creation.
@Kenneth Washington If what you are saying is correct, why do Christians say LGBT+ are sinners and evil if God created people that way?
David Arthur Lewis, if that play had presented Jesus as a "pedophile" or "serial killer" or "rapist" or "racist" or any other kind of obviously very vile person, wouldn't even gay people, hopefully, and all other moral and decent people object to that characterization of and play about Him?!! There is a limit to tolerance and acceptance, and it has never meant accepting and tolerating all actions and people equally, no matter what they do, or else all of these perversions, sicknesses, and hatefulnesses would have to be accepted, too, which would be ridiculous!! Loving our neighbors as ourselves and treating them as created in God's image has never meant loving everything that they do or going along with their distortion of God's image in themselves or misrepresentation of Jesus to further their own agenda or else all of the heresies of the past that also misrepresented Jesus to further their anti-Christian agenda would all have been accepted, instead of fought against, as they deserved!! There is a difference between truth and falsehood, no matter how unpopular and unpromotable truth is or how popular and promotable falsehood is, and truth is what we should believe.
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