Pope Francis didn’t mince words in a recent speech addressing the migrant crisis, saying that it is a “grave sin” to let migrants die.
"It needs to be said clearly: there are those who systematically work by all means to drive away migrants, and this, when done knowingly and deliberately, is a grave sin," argued Francis during a recent audience in St. Peter’s Square. “The tragedy is that many, the majority of these deaths, could have been prevented,” he stated.
The comments are some of his harshest yet on what he sees as a global neglect of migrants, a topic he’s long spoken on and which he holds close to his heart.
Is Pope Francis right? Is it a sin to repel migrants from a border?
The Pope’s Comments
“Even at this moment, [migrants] are crossing seas and deserts to reach a land where they can live in peace and security," began Francis’ August 28 address. “Brothers and sisters, we can all agree on one thing: Migrants should not be in those seas and in those lethal deserts," he said. "And, unfortunately, they are there."
Francis proceeded to condemn governments and lawmakers for driving away migrants, arguing that migrant deaths cannot be prevented "through more restrictive laws, nor through the militarization of borders, nor through rejections."
"Instead, we will achieve it by expanding safe and legal avenues for migrants, by facilitating sanctuary for those fleeing wars, violence, persecution and many calamities; we will achieve it by fostering in every way a global governance of migration based on justice, fraternity and solidarity," he said.
Francis emotionally recalled a photo of the wife and child of Pato Crepin, a refugee whose family died last year in the desert border between Libya and Tunisia in their desperate attempt to reach the European Union. In what appeared to be off-the-cuff remarks, Francis decried their deaths as “a cruelty of our civilization.”
Francis concluded the address by asking the audience to help reject a culture of global “indifference and rejection” towards migrants and requesting the audience pray for them.
Pro-Migrant History
Francis has long been an advocate of migrant reform, but in recent years he’s been increasingly outspoken about the global migrant crisis – particularly about migrants attempting to enter the United States and European Union.
In 2023, Francis addressed the Global Refugee Forum and called on the European Union to accept migrants, arguing that helping migrants is a shared responsibility which the global community has been woefully inadequate in addressing.
In August, he even commented on Texas trying to shut down a Catholic charity which helps migrants by feeding and housing them, arguing that it is “sheer madness to close the border and leave [migrants] there."
Then, during this recent address, Francis even suggested that God himself shares in the migrant plight, stating that "to accompany the people on their journey to freedom, God himself crosses the sea and the desert."
Though the comments were well received by pro-migrant groups, not all thought that Francis’ recent rhetoric hit the mark – and some even suggested that he open his doors first.
“Welcome them to the Vatican, then,” wrote one commenter. “Problem solved while setting an example for us all.”
What do you make of the pope’s comments?
Is it a “grave sin” to turn migrants away at the border? And is**** it hypocritical, as has been suggested by some, for a man who lives in a palace in a walled city state to condemn the immigration policies of others?
130 comments
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Paul Francis Germana
God is the Ruler, not Man! Submit to His Law, which should not be sought in dead scriptures, for the Law is in everything that lives and breathes and thrives on. Even if the Wicked take but a few steps on the path, it is by the Law Of All Laws, what is in every single blade of grass, every fallen leaf and every tree we see; they are reaching out for eternity, they're all on the path to eternity. My proof that God is Ruler? Everything man has done, everything that we have built, has been established on top of the Giant Leaves of the Tree Of Life. Google Earth it. Let them see the Earth from above, where the tree of life is scattered abroad, by the Serpent, whose head is Idaho! This is God's way of saying, that we don't know how he made everything. The Essene Communions Glorify the Tree Of Life as the Mystery Of Mysteries! Turn To Christ!
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Kevin Venteicher
one should or be able too assist them then yes
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Terry Oliver Adkinson
Migrants can choose to op for the legal means to become a citizen. Until then, whether border jumpers, or work permit violators they should be deported. If their their country is so bad it's their responsibility to correct their problems not import them to us.
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Michael Hunt
Except that a lot of their problems are due to American interference and deportation policies from the '70s. Other problems are occurring because of climate change, making it more difficult, if not impossible, to grow enough crops to support the population. These are people who feel powerless and desperate and they're just looking for a better life, just like our ancestors were.
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Pocketman
It's not about the pope, it's not about you, it's about loving others.
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Pastor Darrell l Hampton McClain
I definitely think it’s very difficult to worship Jesus who’s parents were turned away saying there is no room in the inn and then treat migrants with contempt. There are over 400 Bible verse telling Christians to take care of the poor the immigrant and the downtrodden
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Thomas Lee Hoffman
We can always fly the immigrants to the Vatican. Good luck!
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Arvin Gean Gibbs
Does the Pope favor Italy opening its borders for the same type immigrants causing problems in the U.S.?
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Karen LaBerdia
All I can say is that our family had to leave our neighborhood due to the man camp that was allowed across the street. Horn honking night and day, sometimes non-stop for hours, blocking the street so EMS and Fire could not get through, placing themselves in a single family dwelling 8 men, one woman, one neglected cat, and one toddler. First time in my life I heard gunshots from a passing car. Tired of calling the law. Tired of HomeOwners Assoc not enforcing the one family rule, tired of the chaos which lasted for years before we had enough. Husband said if we didn't leave, he would. Spent a fortune moving to a neutral location. Our old house is now a no-go zone.
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Joan Marilyn Sanchez
I'm sorry but tell Pope Francis to mind his own business. There wouldn't be any migrants if they stayed in their own country. Fix that country's problems and then the people wouldn't leave.
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Jeffrey Scott Utegg
it should be done legally, and then you should respect the laws and customs , learn the language get job build the system not abuse it
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Walter J. Holbrook
We can not care for those in just our neighborhoods. As Christians we need to help all who are oppressed and in need of comfort. The say we do not have the money to feed or house them. But, we have ,money for wars, building monuments for the rich. Come on people.
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Rev, Rene L.
To say: "What would Jesus Do?" is assinine. Borders, as we now have them in these times, were only somewhat maintained in order to collect "Taxes", a form of :"I am the most dangerous and powerful person, so pay me or die". Oh, wait, Trumpie did that also. Sorry, I will stop right here.
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Daniel C. Arendt
And the Pope views just America as a place that must take up to Graham's Number of migrants, and set them up with anything they need for free? Does the Pope hate Americans that much? Or will his churches receive more donations from migrants of his faith without concern to burden of non-believers? Just asking as places like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Cina, North Korea, Sudan and so forth never get chastised for this by the Pope.
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Raymond A Hafner
Why doesn't he open Vatican city to migrants While God says love thy neighbor. He did NOT say ruin your country. With gangs and terrorists in these groups we must love our God and our ountry first. We are in the middle of a Holy War and if America falls our religion falls.
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Darran Jones
I'm sorry, exactly how many migrants are they allowing in Vatican City for any extended period of time, like being sheltered, fed and cared for????? Exactly ZERO. Practice what you preach.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. Deuteronomy 10:19 Let mutual love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it. Remember those who are in prison, as though you were in prison with them; those who are being tortured, as though you yourselves were being tortured. Hebrews 13:1-3 Contribute to the needs of the saints; extend hospitality to strangers. Romans 12:13 You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who reside among you and have begotten children among you. They shall be to you as citizens of Israel; with you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. Ezekiel 47:22 The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Leviticus 19:34
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John Ball
If the pope led by example, I could take him more seriously. There are Roman Catholic properties and facilities all over the world that could be used to house, educate, and support migrants. Why does the pope not open them up for that purpose? His comments are hypocritical and sanctimonious. How about designating 10% of Vatican income to help the migrants? How about doing anything more that complaining about others.
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James A
What many fail to recognize is that the calamities these people are fleeing are largely the result of a long history of exploitation by western countries. The US overthrew democratically elected governments in central and south America for their own political and economic reasons. The US unjustly invaded Iraq and destabilized an entire region. Other older European colonial powers have done the same. While homegrown issues cannot be denied, militant religious fanaticism for example, the crisis we face today are simply the chickens coming home to roost.
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Mrknowitall
The Pope is a Dope ! Close the borders, close them now ! No more asylum for anyone....Apply for citizenship and wait your turn.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Mrknowitall, Imagine you are from Ukraine and Russia has just started attacking your country. Your home is destroyed and you have lost almost everything and everyone you have loved in this world. Are you going to stay in country to try to find some internet cafe that might actually be open to try to apply for citizenship somewhere? Where do you plan on staying until your application is approved? Where will your approval letter be sent? Who will even deliver it? There are so many factors that people do not consider when it comes to migrants. Many are clearly fleeing for their lives as most do not have the luxury of renting a U-Haul to transport their belongings. Most people show up with just the clothes on their back and that is for a reason. Closing the borders as you suggest is only sentencing these people to death. Is that something you can honestly live with?
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David McHaley
Try to illegally cross the border in any country. You go to jail. Pope Francis is a hypocrite like all other popes. Why is the .U.S. the only country on this planet that can't close its borders? Why are we the only country thar isn't allowed to stop illegal immigration? Every other country is allowed to, and secure their borders. I hear nothing from the pope on them. Do some research on what the penalties are for illegally crossing other borders. Mexico is an automatic 2 years in prison. But their government tells us we need to open our borders. I call total B.S. on this. We are a Sovereign nation. We can't just let people come in as they please for the same reason other countries don't do it. It's dangerous to the citizens here. And they come first
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Thomas Christopher Medina
Those are good questions for the your elected officials, not the pope or comment section. It also is not Democrats or Republicans, it's both. Congress is having big party in D.C. and we weren't invited. There's an agenda, and it's up to you to figure out.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
It would be hypocritical of him if people were trying to enter Vatican City for the sake of saving their lives and the Pope didn't admit them.
It's very human to refuse entry to one's own territory to others...on a primitive animal level. That's what's built into us as territorial animals; we are hardwired to look after only our own, for the sake of survival. That said, bringing religion into it elevates the discussion to the part of us that is more than animal. If we are unable to do so, then our religious beliefs do not matter at all when push comes to shove. It has, in these situations, and we prove again and again that we are not capable of elevating ourselves above our animal impulses.
I don't believe in the concept of sin, but I can look at people as a whole and see that they are not attempting to rise above their most basic instincts. I wouldn't call that "sinful", but I do call it disappointing. When one thinks about what humans, as possessors of an extremely powerful brain and the ability to philosophize and imagine, refuse to remedy because it's too much work, it is such a disappointment to see humanity so profoundly failing to live up to our potential.
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John Casillo
the Vatican has enough wealth and space to invite migrants in.....there should be a "open house policy"....the Pope probably needs confession
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Rev. Michelle Love
John, The Vatican is only 109 acres. Do you think that the Pope really has enough wealth and space to invite, say, the 6.6 million Ukranians that have fled their country since the war started?
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Thomas P. Davis
Not space but certainly has the wealth and acquiring more every day.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas, Does the Vatican list their assets publicly for all to see like non-profits are supposed to in the US? Even so, why would this non-government entity feel obligated to assist anyone who is not a member of the Roman Catholic Church? It is almost like saying that the Puyallup Tribe of Indians are responsible for tackling the homelessness crisis in Tacoma, WA because they make millions at the casinos they have in that area.
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Thomas P. Davis
Some of that wealth is acquired at the expense of the poor. Look at some of the countries that were wealthy at one time and when his socialist programs were instituted, they went down the tubes. As they say you cannot take it with you. What was Christ's thoughts on the accumulation of wealth.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas, So is the wealth of the entire European Union. The only difference is that the poor have the option to freely donate to the church whereas they have no choice in paying taxes.
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Thomas P. Davis
The church I grew up in, would not bury you in the Cemetaries with the sanctified ground unless you were faithful in returning your money to the church. The poor or some of them live in fear that they will not go to heaven unless the pay, pay and pay. They had weekly envelopes, monthly envelopes and then an extra envelope if it was a feast day. Plus, envelopes for each of your children. So they cannot pay taxes and end up in jail or not pay the church and live in fear of burning in hell. Most churches will not allow you to hold office unless you are a member in good standing. One church I attended printed a brochure every year with all the members and what they paid and distributed it to all..
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Thomas Eugene Randall Jr
Closing the border is not an act of hatred; it is an act of survival for the Nation. "Tender to Caesar the things that are Caesar's," ( the laws outlining how one enters the country legally in this case). And once here LEGALLY, learn quickly to provide for yourself and your family (LEGALLY) and assimilate into the culture. Millions have done this and are proud to be Americans. Millions more have not, and they are, in fact, criminal. If we see hungry, we feed this who are, if they are naked, we clothe them, if they are injured, we bind their wounds. If they are not here legally and refuse to comply with the law, they are criminal and should be treated humanely, and returned to their country of origin.0
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Daniel Lee Weiss
1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
any country that cannot help its own, has no place taking in migrants.
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Lionheart
Dumbledore:
“It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live”
🦁❤️
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Dorothy Hawkins
Until the religions of the world declare peace with one another, I don't see the Pope's remarks being effective.
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Donald G Magel
Luckily our Christian Right follows their own chosen one, the man doing god’s work on earth. He is the trumpster, the holy huckster!
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Reverend Tobitt
Also, no one deserves hatred. Jesus didn’t hate…you show compassion for those filled with such hate, you don’t stoop to their level and exhibit hate, yourself. It makes me sad that leaders of the church are literally preaching about hate when all we need to preach is love.
Also, please see the rules of comment leaving. Fill you cups with love today ❤️ When leaving your comment, please: Be respectful and constructive Criticize ideas, not people Avoid profanity, insults, and derogatory comments
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Reverend Tobitt
Also, no one deserves hatred. Jesus didn’t hate…you show compassion for those filled with such hate, you don’t stoop to their level and exhibit hate, yourself. It makes me sad that leaders of the church are literally preaching about hate when all we need to preach is love.
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Olivier Ammour-Mayeur
So many bigoted comments here! I am flabbergast by such hypocrisy. the US gouvernement have raised hell in the Middle East for the past 40 years, and now US citizens complain there is nothing left in these countries for people to live of.
The US government have supported several coup in the South American countries for the past 40 years, and now US citizens complain that, in most of these countries, they have no other option but to flea the country in order to survive the corrupt government the US put in place for decades.
US Citizens have been over consuming food, water and energies for decades, and now they complain that people have to flea areas that are dead to agriculture and to have a decent life because of the global warming US citizens have heavily contributed to all these years...
And on top of all that, they have the audacity to call themselves Christians!! While they dare to flout the simplest precepts of the Christian religion:
Love God. (which basically mean love humanity, that God created in his image!)
Love your neighbours as yourself. (and anybody on this planet is our neighbour, since we actually share the same planet and any outcome that comes to us with what we do about this fact!).
Forgive others who have wronged you. (and migrants do not wrong anyone, they have been wronged by the policies of the US government in the first place!).
Love your enemies. (and migrants are actually not enemies, but people in need, like Mary and Joseph when they were looking for shelter to give birth the Jesus Christ!!).
Ask God for forgiveness of your sins. (and people asking to reject migrants are complicit in the death of many of them as they are not welcoming these people as their neighbours
Jesus is the Messiah and was given the authority to forgive others.
Repentance of sins is essential.
I guess many here should go and revise the Bible and the true words of God.
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John E Smith
Pope has his head in the sand if he thinks this is acceptable, it’s bordering on idiotic actually. The issues to established infrastructure getting destroyed by mass immigration is obvious, yet he sits in an ivory tower unaffected by it. Totally irrelevant opinion, made by someone with no firsthand experience of the issues it creates
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Mugisha Karume Lemon
Pope is right. As a believer I don"t understand how can you keep looking around you people dying needy while you can help. I experienced this as a refugee in a camp and I remember the time we left our homes to go nowhere. By here I invite anyone with heart to help us with resettlement. Thanks
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David Buck
Soft-hearted (soft-headed) thinking like that is why this crisis is happening in the first place. These are not 'refugees' in the main, they are economic migrants. There are established methods of entry to all of these countries, and NO nation should be encouraging or permitting irregular migration to occur. You do not know who these people really are, what crimes they may have committed, what their real motivations are (but suspiciously a huge proportion of them are 'military age males'). In these days of global terrorism no country can afford to allow people into their borders unless they know who they are.
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Mark Hannon
I agree with the Pope.
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Rev. Michelle Love
So do I, Mark.
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John E Smith
Comment removed by user.
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Rev. Michelle Love
The Pope is right; it is a sin to repel migrants from a border. However, starting on September 16th, Germany will be doing just that. These travel restrictions will effect people trying to enter in from France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Denmark and the Netherlands and will last for at least 6 months with an option to extend at a later date.
This event has been prophesied and is even the subject of a Netflix show called Kaos. In it, the show speaks of the following prophecy:
"A line appears, the order wanes, the family falls, and chaos reigns."
I believe that the line is a metaphor for the border. The family will fall because people will not be able to visit each other because they are being stopped at this border. Order will wane because people will want to revolt against the government that imposed these restrictions which will lead to chaos reigning when war ensues as a result.
This appears to be another attempt at ethnic cleansing in a country that already has a violent history of forcefully expelling religious minorities. I pray for our military that are stationed in Europe that will undoubtedly be called to duty if such a war occurs.
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Daniel Lee Weiss
1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
any country that cannot help its own, has no place taking in migrants.
any country that has millions living on the streets, has no place taking migrants from another country.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, People who are living in oppressive countries have the right to move elsewhere. No one should have to live under the threat of constant violence just because of what they look like or the religious beliefs that they hold.
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Robert P Hardy
That's true . but if they choose to go somewhere else to except that country's help . they need to do its the correct way . not by breaking laws of illegally crossing borders and they need to respect the country's rules and laws and the citizens
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Rev. Michelle Love
Robert, Many of the people I am referring to are seeking political asylum and are not subject to the same restrictions as a standard migrant.
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John E Smith
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Daniel Gray
Again, this is the same "Pope" that is claiming that abortion should be legal. Now does the scriptures not say that to harm an innocent child it would be better for them to have a millstone tied about their neck and be thrown into the sea? So how can he claim to be doing "God's" work when he isnt following the scriptures himself?
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Lionheart
But, Sir Daniel, didn’t the god you believe in kill children? Do you support your god having a millstone around his scrawny neck? 🤭
🦁❤️
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Daniel Lee Weiss
you mean the same God that killed 185,000 because one man among them mocked God?
should we follow that example too?
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Lionheart
Yes, let’s not forget that all the people he killed because of his ego, temper tantrums, and lack of forgiveness of mankind’s sins, (which he supposedly helped to create) he’s a god of love.
People actually worship it every week, if not daily, and they talk to it 👻 and nothing speaks back, but……they will convince themselves, and try to convince others, that it does, so they don’t feel silly doing it. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, I'm thinking the Pope might find abortion a less traumatic experience for everyone than witnessing someone literally drowning live babies in the ocean...
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Daniel Lee Weiss
sin is sin, regardless of which sins the pope finds less offensive.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, The Pope knows that no one is free of sin, including himself. I cannot speak for him, but he may feel that a child should not have to suffer a lifetime of trauma because an adult committed a sin against them. The body keeps the score and I believe that some people may think that abortion is a way to prevent generational curses.
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Thomas P. Davis
First, I think that all need to know the facts. The last time I looked, it was less than one percent of rape led to pregnancy. I had difficulty in what to do in those case and maintaining my belief in the 10 commandments. After many months of praying, I listened to an episode of Focus on the Family when Dr. James Dobson did a program on mothers of rape. He made two comments. one, a woman that aborts a child for any reason, suffers the rest of her life emotionally two a woman that is raped suffers the rest of her life emotionally as well. But then he said, a woman whom choses to keep the child, God performs a miracle in her life and much of the pain of the rape is removed. Then he spoke with a group of women who kept the child for 20 minutes and then for the last ten minutes asked their 18yr old children if they were glad their mom kept them.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas, Do you often do research to see how many rapes lead to pregnancy? And if so, why?
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Thomas P. Davis
No, I don't, but the doctor I mentioned did and pro-lifers do as well. Personally, I wouldn't take the time because for me it is a waste. Everyone seems to be trying to cure a sin problem with man's methods. It hasn't worked in the past and I doubt if it will work in the future. Only God can change the heart.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas, Not all rapes are reported so there is no way any legitimate doctor can make such an assertion without outing themselves as being a fraud.
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Michael Hunt
He's the founder of Focus on the Family so he's definitely a fraud. https://www.5280.com/and-on-the-eighth-day-dr-dobson-created-himself/
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Thomas P. Davis
Or the 8000 baby skulls they found in the lake outside of the convent in Rome when they drained it years ago.
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Olivier Ammour-Mayeur
Ok, looks like some people need to review their biology courses: embryos ARE NOT children!!
And just to understand, if your wife (daughter, sister,...) gets raped, will you tell her to keep the embryo at all cost?? Or if her life is at risk if she carries out the pregnancy?
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David McHaley
If embryos are not children, then why does a person get charged with 2 murders when a pregnant woman is killed?
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Thomas P. Davis
Or the mother is arrested for doing drugs while carrying the child for endangering its life.
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Rev'd Andrew
Numbers 5:11 - 31
Danny, you should read the Bible rather than make assumptions.
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Thomas P. Davis
Doesn't scripture also say that the priests would give a woman a drink if she was suspected of adultery and if she lost the baby, she was Quilty?
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Dominique D Sweat
when the Pope put on his red attire with his white hat, what do the red stand for?
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Reverend Paula Copp
The red signifies that the pope has been bathed in the blood of Jesus…
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
and that doesn't creep anybody out?
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Daniel Lee Weiss
why would the thing that saves from eternal suffering, creep people out?
do you find the viking idea of drinking the blood of their fallen enemies to be less creepy?
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Did they eat their flesh as well?
Did any of them rise from the dead, zombie-like?
Can you prove that drinking jesús' blood will save from eternal suffering?
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Lionheart
There you go! What did I say?
🦁❤️
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Rev. Michelle Love
Paula,
Interesting! I would never want to be considered bathed in the blood of Jesus because the statement was supposed to mean that I would have blood on my hands because I played a part in His death. He did not die for all of our general sins and some people want to believe, but was made a scapegoat in a crime that many Jews were seen as committing at the time and that was of tax evasion. Jesus conducted His sermons outside of the temple so His people would not have to pay the Temple Tax just to practice their religion. The Roman Empire did not take too kindly to this and ended up publicly crucifying Him to make an example out of Him for everyone to see.
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Susan Christine Giganti
Some people believe the blood of the crucified Jesus covers you in healing and keeps you safe from sins. There is even a contemporary Christian song about “power in the blood” . I don’t like thinking about Jesus in that manner .
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Rev. Michelle Love
Susan, I don't blame you. The only way this theory would make sense is if exposure to His blood gave people eternal life because He possessed immortal cells like the ones Henrietta Lacks had stolen from her body that were used to create HeLa cells. These cells have been able to replicate indefinitely and would give people heal faster and keep people "safe from sin" by curing them of sexually transmitted diseases without medication.
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Thomas P. Davis
He did die for all of our sins, every last one of them. It also had nothing to do with the Jews. There wasn't a Jew on this earth until 2500 years after Adam and Eve sinned. Plus, we are told that the plan of our salvation was instituted before this world was created.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas, Jesus did not die for all of our sins; He was held accountable for all crimes that people were being accused of at that time. Aside from tax evasion, the Roman Empire was trying to blame someone for the Mad Cow Disease epidemic that required them to destroy all of their livestock in the country. Who better to blame than a shepherd who had 100 head of sheep in his flock?
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Thomas P. Davis
We read different books. Mine says that sin is the transgression of the law. The wages of sin is death. There is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood. It takes a perfect sacrifice to pay that penalty. So, His blood has covered my 70 years on this earth, or I AM DOOMED. 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. The 100 head of sheep is in reference to the other worlds 99 and God left to save the 1 (us) that was lost.
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Rev. Michelle Love
I don't think so, Thomas. The very statement of sin being a transgression of the law is the literal definition of the word crime. And if all crimes were punishable by death, then we would not need a prison system because the government could just execute these sinners as soon as they are found guilty.
There are a lot of people who use "the blood of Jesus" as an excuse to not take accountability for the decisions they have made in life. It is almost like a "Get Out of Jail Free" card for repeat offenders who think that all they have to do is be baptized before they die so they can be allowed to enter the gates of Heaven penalty free.
In regards to the sheep story, I think it was more of a parable to show that Jesus had the tendency to make bad decisions Himself. Imagine being hired to watch one hundred cases of merchandise in an empty parking lot until a truck could come pick it up. Suddenly, a thief comes and snags a case while you are not looking. Are you going to run after the thief, leaving the remaining 99 cases vulnerable to theft? Or are you going to stay behind and keep a better eye on what inventory is remaining until your truck has arrived?
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Thomas P. Davis
I think we are talking two different things. Man's laws verses God's. As the book of James says, 'Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. "
Yes, I totally agree with you on Cheap Grace, (fire insurance) those that believe they only need to be covered by the blood and once they are, they can continue the old life and not become a new creature.
A shepherd from my understanding knew where all his sheep were. They knew his voice as scripture calls it. Every now and then one would wonder off and he needed to go find it. Like we who wonder off at times. I read a story once on that picture with the shepherd carrying the lamb on his shoulder. It said the reason he would do that was because the lamb had a broken leg. Why did it have a broken leg? The article stated the shepherds rod had a hook on one end to reach in and pull it from the bush it got caught in and then the shepherd used the other pointed end to break its legs so it could not run off again. Then the shepherd carried it until the leg healed and the lamb stayed with the flock after that.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas,
I believe that James 2:10 was referring to law makers. They should be held to a higher standard if they cannot obey the very same laws they set for everyone else.
I just re-read the parable of The Lost Sheep in Matthew 18:12-14 and there is no mention that shepherds would ever deliberately break the legs of any animal in their flock because they ran off. Would you punish you dog by breaking its legs if a wild animal spooked it and caused it to run off? In any event, I have a hard time believing that a shepherd would deliberately break the legs of a sheep that could weigh anywhere from 99 to 350 lbs and then carry it around until it's legs healed. If this is a real story, it is probably a thinly veiled parable condoning the use of physical violence to force women into staying in domestic violence situations.
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Thomas P. Davis
That is why it is good to live under a government with free speech, even though that too is going away. I believe that James 2:10 was referring to people that try to justify their sins by placing a value to them. I came from a church that did that. Certain sins against mankind would not keep you out of the kingdom but others would. You can look at the statement that Paul made "Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Then compare it to the story of Eve eating the fruit. She broke the law on thou shalt not covet, lusting after something she did not need. She disobeyed her heavenly father. She stole, she took that which did not belong to her. She committed adultery, she left her relationship with God for another relationship with the devil. We now all die because of the decisions made of Adam and Eve.
I did not say the story of the shepherd was biblical, I related a story that a minister wrote decades ago. As far as the weight, I don't know. There was some strong man when I was little that could lift an animal, they claimed he was able to accomplish this feat by lifting it every day from its birth. Since the sheep are to reflect us. Would an adult lamb leave the flock of just the newbie.
As far as domestic violence goes, I see nothing in scripture that says a person should stay in that type of relationship. From what I have read over the years the person with their maternal instincts believe that she can change it. Then one day she ends up dead.
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Lionheart
I’ll guarantee someone will say it’s symbolical of the blood of a human being called Jesus. They all seem to revel in these sick type of logical fallacies. They even love indoctrinating gullible little children with these type of things, knowing that if children are naive enough to believe in the Tooth Fairy, and Santa Clause, it’s a no-brainer they will accept gory fairy tales told by adults. 🤷🏼
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Theresa C. Marquess
It's easy for the Pope to comment on the issue of immigrants as he sits in his apartment in The Vatican. I would have more respect for him as a human being if he made an effort to right the wrongs done to these immigrants in their own countries. Instead, all he does is mouth off on the rest of the world accepting and feeding them. We have so many homeless people living on the streets of our own country. The onrush of immigrants onto our soil has burdened our society. Instead of fixing the problems in third-world countries, their problems have followed them all over the world. Get real, Pope Francis.
I am a born and raised Catholic, but I cannot agree with this Pope.
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Lionheart
That’s ok Lady Theresa, most people on earth end up being indoctrinated into their religion by their geographic location. If you had been born in Utah, you would more than likely have been Mormon. If you had been born in Asia, you would more than likely have been Hindu. Thank your lucky stars you had not been born in Iraq 😜
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Theresa C. Marquess
Sir Corleone, I am grateful to have been born in the New York Metropolitan Area of parents who were of Sicilian descent and were members of the Roman Catholic Church...one of which my Great Grandfather and the society to which he belonged petitioned the then Pope to have permission to build. I have not been indoctrinated into the Catholic faith, despite my upbringing. My parents' children were taught to think for themselves and make the decisions that they believed were the right ones for them personally. Yes, Sir Corleone, I am extremely fortunate...blessed!
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Lionheart
Awe…bless you. I am so glad you got to think for yourself. Life is all about decision-making, isn’t it?
There are two very important keys for a very successful, healthy, and rewarding life.
The FIRST key is: Keep all to yourself 🤭
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Theresa C. Marquess
Sir Corleone, Do you ever think the Pope missed a meal? That is what this issue is all about, isn't it? The worth of the Catholic Church can help to solve so many of the problems in the Third World Countries. Now why don't they part with some of it? Greed, that is why. I don't believe the Pope should comment on any of the immigration problems unless he is ready to step up and help solve some of them. What say you???
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Lionheart
I totally agree with you, Lady Theresa. There are many leaders of faith all capitalizing on the wealth from their flock.
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Nicholas J Page
As an English man the Pope should be sorting out the various churches around the world.getting road of the filthy Ministers who abuse children then hide their crimes like they always do.With churches covering up for them.He knows what is going on but chooses to turn a blind eye.Yes it's a huge problem for England with politicians saying they will stop the boats and throwing money at the French who do nothing.But we still do nothing it's the Governments fault for saying they will stop the boats but no one does it's been going on for years.
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ServantOfJudgement
In installed some automated machinery for The Royal Mail facility in Slough. It was a new facility being constructed. I spent about 3 months in country.
I was shocked at the ratio of citizens vs illegal immigrants working at the place. That was 20 years ago. The local iron workers and other tradesman were frustrated and complained about not being listed to.
I can only say your trouble didn't occur over night for sure. The average Joe saw it coming straight away.
You've got a beautiful country with a fascinating history and great people. It's a shame to see that slipping away.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
curious, you were able to tell the workers were illegal immigrants because...color of their skin? language spoken? Tee shirt that said, "Illegal Immigrant". or are you just naturally intuitive that way? smh
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Daniel Gray
and curious, are you so psychic that you can tell?
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Michael Hunt
He was never claiming to be able to tell...
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Rev. Michelle Love
Servant of Judgment,
Are you sure that they weren't migrant workers like yourself and not illegal immigrants? Unless you worked in Human Resources, there is no way you could know for sure. And, seeing that you admittedly were only in Slough for three months, which is the amount of time most countries allow people to stay in their country without a Visa, there is no way you can actually substantiate this claim unless you kept in touch with every single person you accused of being illegal.
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Miguel Anthony Richard Denyer
If the Pope cares so much about the migrants, let him look after them in the Holy See... It is easy to feed the millions with the resources of others... let's see him do the Christian thing instead of criticizing others for defending their borders from the plagues of locusts that are eating out of the substance of countries that can barely look after their own.
All the time there is a single US veteran living on the streets in the US, I'll not give a crust to an ILLEGAL immigrant that does not belong there.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
seems to me if that were truly your belief, you'd be too busy feeding, clothing, sheltering and rehabbing US vets to have any time to waste here at ULC. but here you are. but I bet you felt better after writing that, amirite?
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Daniel Gray
So why are YOU not ding this?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel,
If I recall correctly, Rev. Dr. Father JJ is a fellow Veteran who has already done his part to serve our country.
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Daniel Lee Weiss
If that is so, then as a Veteran, they have all the more reason to be feeding, clothing, sheltering, and rehabbing other Veterans.
As I recall, service members all refer to each other as family, right?
1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
you're missing the point that Miguel Anthony Richard Denyer was making, and that was, "All the time there is a single US veteran living on the streets in the US, I'll not give a crust to an ILLEGAL immigrant that does not belong there."
I simply asked him that if he felt that strongly about it then he would be working to help all US vets and wouldn't have time to be in here preaching.
I'm not the one who said that, I made no reference to vets, homeless or otherwise (other than that I am a vet) and I help out as I can and where I can, and some of it is in this post, calling out the hypocrisy that some here have on display.
as to dan gray who asked me why am I not doing that, like I said above, I do what I can, where I can, as I can.
but since dan gray decided to jump in, let's ask him what he does to help US vets and why is he here?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Not necessarily, Daniel. That is why the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs exists.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
the dept of veterans affairs is over worked, underfunded and sadly, woefully inefficient. this country is all too often over zealous in going to war and relatively indifferent to those who return from it.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Rev. Dr. Father JJ,
I do not disagree with you there. However, my point was to say that there is an entire organization that is funded with taxpayers dollars to take care of veterans so that another veteran such as yourself should not feel obligated to care for others out of pocket.
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Lionheart
Why should we care what his thoughts are? He’s just an old man wearing an Acorn Cup cap, and a medieval cloak, that likes people to kiss his ring. By all accounts the Catholic Church is worth at least $8 Billion. I’m sure they need the money more than the homeless, sick, and suffering. If there really is a heaven after this life, one would assume those in charge of the coffers of the Catholic Church will either be last in, or denied access.
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Thomas P. Davis
Maybe we should, since the bible has a lot to say about him.
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Reverend Paula Copp
I’m not sure the Pontiff is aware of the issues facing immigration and border security. As a nation, we cannot allow immigration to go on ad infinitum. On the other hand, we need to welcome those searching for a better life. It’s a conundrum, and one for which I have no answer.
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Alexander Arends
The pope ought to stick to serving the poor, and sharing the church's riches to those in need. Think of how many people's lives he could save. I believe in the sovereignty of nations and their right to be selective of who they allow entry. Even Jerusalem built a wall.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Every religion should stick to serving the poor. It should be mandatory on all members of a church that all they do is help the sick and the poor, instead of themselves. shame on every sanctimonious, narcissistic, praise-jebus holier-than-thou person who claims to be a good (fill in religion) but in all actuality are in it just for themselves (heaven, amirite?)
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Cheryl Pettijohn
Of course, those churches who do help the poor have the government harassing them for it.
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ServantOfJudgement
JJ,
You're a member of a couple churches, this one for sure.
Why haven't you obeyed your own demands?
It's called hypocrisy, specifically judgement in hypocrisy.
As written, your name plugs right into your complaint.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
I'm not the one telling the pope how to run his church
I'm not the one defending anti-immigration sentiments and measures
I'm not the one claiming to have only the best interests of various nations at heart
I am the one who is tired of people who are convinced they are divinely inspired and who express their divine inspiration by revealing their hatred, racism and xenophobia
As written, your name plugs right into my complaint: why the... are YOU here???
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ServantOfJudgement
And your not the one practicing what you preach.
As far as expressing hatred, racism xenophobia, have you read your posts? Might want to.
I think everyone is happy with immigration as long as it legal and not an invasion. Russia didn't deploy 25 million troops into Ukraine yet it's called an invasion. When USA invaded Iraq we didn't send 25 million troops in. When the socialist democratic party of Germany invaded Poland, they didn't send 25 million undocumented people in.
I'm here to test the word of God to see if it's true and to see if someone with your outlook can be reasoned with.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
ha, good one. I push against those of you who are racists, xenophobes, homophobes, anti-immigrants, etc etc etc.
If I express any hatred, it is ONLY towards t those who express their hatred of people and religions they do not approve of.
If I rail against the kkkristofascists, it's out of a deep, deep hatred against them as they seek to serve only themselves and their version of religion and want to destroy all others. So yes, they deserve my hatred.
other than what I've expressed here, please show me where I've been racist? where I've been xenophobic? I mean seriously, you just make up silly stuff and throw it out there and expect it to just be accepted?
and you're here to TEST the word of god? who make you god tester? self-appointment clearly. instead of testing the word of god to see it it's true, go and live accordingly. your presence here in no way serves his word nor his desires. you are here expressly for your own self-satisfaction, showing how holy and religious you (think you) are. please, we've all seen your kind before...nothing here to see
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Daniel Gray
Really JJ? and yet here you come cursing your brothers and sisters all because what they do does not fit into your agenda?
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Reverend Tobitt
You both DO realize you’re not practicing what you preach about loving your neighbor even when views differ…. Interesting you’re both arguing instead of working together to solve issues.
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ServantOfJudgement
Respectfully JJ, the bible recommends for its reader to test what's in it for legitimacy. We're supposed to test it. So I test it, at least what can be tested.
I'm quite far from being holy. Definitely not holier than you or anyone I know. Probably about the same as most humans. I don't go to church, I don't street preach or quote scriptures to my kids. I just read the Bible and think about it. Tweak my life here and there when i see my viewpoint or actions are wrong according to God.
For the most part I keep my Christianity to myself. That's anti biblical I know but im just not wired to go to people with something they don't want.
From what I've read from you and countless others, in life, I'm the Christian you expect to see or hear, which is not at all.
And in the end, you're even angry with me because I say I test the document you despise.
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Daniel Lee Weiss
1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
tell me JJ, why should nations that have millions of their own poor and homeless uncared for, take in millions of migrants?
as for the claims of "hatred, racism and xenophobia" claiming a country has too many problems to help everyone on earth, is not hate, racist or xenophobic.
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Russel A. Kester
The Pope's view is based on little more than moral platitudes without a complete understanding of the dynamics at work. If a doctor treated a patients symptoms only and not the cause, then the doctor hasn't really helped because the symptoms will continue. The Pope should address the countries from which these people are leaving, enumerating their "grave sins" and calling on them to change instead of lashing out at nations working to maintain secure borders. His lack of a robust analysis of the underlying causes for migration makes his condemnations vacuous and irresponsible.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
MAGA sentiments, amirite? here you are deigning to tell the pope he's wrong and what he should be doing? lol is there no end to your sanctimony and smartest-guy-tin-the-room mentality?
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Daniel Gray
Why not, he is trying to tell us what to do JJ or did you intentionally ignore that fact?
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Patricia Ann Gross
One country's persecuted refugee is another country's criminal. I don't think the Pope did a very good job in portraying which is the gravest sin. While Russel and I spar on a lot of things, I think he is spot on with this one.
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Rev. Donut
I have no problem telling the Pope he is wrong.
They made the wrong guy Pope.
Judging from his actions the Pope is a Marxist at best.
JC would tell those trying to infiltrate the USA or any other country to stay in their country or go back to their lands and help themselves and others in their own countries.
Not go to another country somewhere else and destroy that country's way of life.
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Donald G Magel
That Pope is woke.. …imagine telling us to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ! The nerve he has.
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ServantOfJudgement
The Pope is victim blaming.
The county a person enters illegally is a victim.
It's possible but not necessarily true that the illegal alien is a victim. If they're a victim, then their home country is the offender.
When radical islam, China and other unsavory countries and groups send troops and prisoners across our border as the FBI and homeland security says they are, we are definitely a victim and the illegal aliens are definitely the perpetrator along with their home country.
The pope is credentialed in theology and philosophy. Shall nations take advice from someone with no education, no experience in the matter of security and economics and receives his paycheck from charity?
God forbid.
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Thomas P. Davis
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
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Rev'd Andrew
Better, he would address the countries that destabilized the states from which the refugees are fleeing, and demand that they remedy the situation they created. Maybe even demand that since they created the problem, they take in the refugees.
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Cheryl Pettijohn
He is following the Word. Exodus (of course), Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and so many more books talk about helping migrants. If you claim to be Christian then there are lots of passages in the New Testament. If you follow the Old Testament there are passages there. If you don't follow either it would depend on your specific texts if you have them. Christians tend to be the ones who DON"T follow Christ's teachings.
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"Letting migrants die" ....what is that supposed to mean? Not discounting the rest of the world, ...-what are American taxpayers supposed to think when these illegal border crossers break into the country, who have sold themselves into indentured slavery to cartels, and then complain about the free stuff that is handed out, includes 15000 illegals released -Convicted- of sex crimes, 13000 illegals released -CONVICTED- murderers. 400,000 (running total) known Convicted criminals released into the United States, and cost the US $150 billion every year (Pope, sit on your throne and tell us that doesn't impact the destitute that are citizens, while the wealthy go about their days as if nothing is happening). If you still don't have a clue perhaps you should talk to the families of the dead, raped, and otherwise damaged by this human disaster. Is it Christian to not protect your loved ones? What is the real "sin" here? Pray for them, YES!, ....indulge them? ......-to what end???