The state of Texas is accusing one El Paso-based Catholic nonprofit of being a “human smuggling” operation for housing migrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The charity sharply disputes the allegations, saying that they’re simply performing their humanitarian – and biblical – duty to feed and house the poor.
Now lawsuits and counter-lawsuits are flying as the legal battle to shut the charity down heats up.
The Annunciation House
Earlier this year, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton sought to shut down the Annunciation House, a boarding house in the border town of El Paso. The Annunciation House, which has close ties to the Catholic Diocese of El Paso, is a volunteer-run network of shelters providing food, shelter, and legal and medical support to economically vulnerable migrants.
Paxton accused the charity of "smuggling people across the southern border and operating a stash house," and sued them, demanding they turn over all documentation relating to clients they’ve served. He threatened to revoke their nonprofit status if they didn’t comply.
The charity filed a lawsuit in response, requesting a judge to put a hold on the attorney general’s command – a request which was granted. In response, Paxton demanded the Annunciation House be shuttered completely, saying charity organizers had committed a felony by “[engaging] in systematic conduct that constitutes illegal alien harboring and operation of a stash house.”
He argues that by helping migrants and asking few questions while doing so, the organization is “worsening illegal immigration.”
Paxton has appealed directly to the Texas Supreme Court, where it seems likely he’ll get a hearing.
The Charity’s Response
Annunciation House leadership shot back at Paxton’s accusations that they’re aiding and abetting human trafficking, arguing that they’re simply following their Christian faith.
“The Attorney General’s illegal, immoral and anti-faith position to shut down Annunciation House is unfounded,” wrote Annunciation House Director Ruben Garcia. “If the work that Annunciation House conducts is illegal — so too is the work of our local hospitals, schools, and food banks.”
Religious Leaders React
Religious leaders in Texas and beyond came to the Annunciation House’s defense, calling it a compassionate organization serving as a beacon of hope for those crossing the border.
Bishop Mark Seitz of the El Paso Diocese stated “we are now witnessing an escalating campaign of intimidation, fear and dehumanization in the state of Texas, one characterized by barbed-wire, harsh new laws penalizing the act of seeking safety at our border, and the targeting of those who would offer aid as a response to faith."
Even Pope Francis commented on the issue. "That is madness, sheer madness to close the border and leave them there," Francis stated. "The migrant has to be received."
Is Feeding Migrants a Crime?
The story made headlines on social media, where users were split on whether the charity was operating illegally or not.
“Makes you wonder what they would have done with Mary and Joseph when they walked 125 miles from Nazareth to Bethlehem” wrote one user. “These ‘faith based orgs helping migrants’ are still traitors to their country,” wrote another.
But it was this viral post, viewed some 2.5 million times, which many on the pro-charity side say sums up the situation best.
What do you think? Is this Catholic charity being persecuted by the state of Texas for following their biblical beliefs to help the poor, or are they actually aiding and abetting “human smuggling,” as the state says?
Whose side are you on?
554 comments
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Nicholas J Page
Why if the church is doing good whats the problem?
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Daniel Gray
they are aiding and abetting breaking the law. THATS the problem
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Keith Graham Ainsworth
It's stopping them starving. What is wrong with you people
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? then why dont they take care of the hungry and homeless already here that are actual citizens? So whats wronhg with you?
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Pamela Kay Waters
Because it's taking away from our own helpless people. Why help illegals when we can't help our own. We can spread only so far. Why aren't they going elseway. Like maybe south
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Rev'd Andrew
How is it "taking away from" others? This charity is helping those who need it where they are. It is the US government's job to provide for veterans, and to provide social safety nets for the unhoused.
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Rev. BH
Good point, Andrew. A charity can do as its donators wish, but the government has a duty to care for vets and our homeless (not doing that too well, huh?)
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Daniel Gray
Really? then please explain why Veterans are being thrown out to take the rooms they were renting to give to illegals. Explain WHY VA Hospitals are turning away Veterans to give treatment to illegals. Your post and the one who agrees with you are both so wrong its breathtaking.
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Rev'd Andrew
Daniel, please show me where in the article it says that this charity is throwing veterans out of "rooms they were renting to give to illegals." I'll bet you $100 you can't.
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Daniel Gray
And I love how you make a factless challenge. I am saying these are illegals as can clearly be seen just by reading their signs. And I never said these people were throwing anyone out but I have posted links where Veterans are being denied hospitals and homes and apartments and are beting thrown out just to give them to the illegals. So I am sorry if my links and fact bust your fake bubble
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Rev'd Andrew
Sweetie, you made a baseless claim and now you're blustering and lying about what you said (I quoted you directly, and you can scroll up and read your own words if you suffer from amnesia). I challenged you to back up you assertion. You failed.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry child But I expect you to donate the 100. to the local VA Hospital and expect to see proof of same
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115998/documents/HHRG-118-JU01-20230523-SD009.pdf Clearly shows that Veterans are being removed from Veterans Housing to have same housing given to illegals.
Here is another link saying the same thing https://nypost.com/2023/05/12/homeless-vets-are-being-booted-from-ny-hotels-to-make-room-for-migrants-advocates/
And here is a link showing that Veterans ARE being shortchanged in VA Hospitals and clinics to make room for illegals, and the VA even ADMITS it in the story https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/01/11/va-paying-migrant-health-care-agency-says-no-despite-wave-of-political-attacks.html
here is an ABC channel saying the same thing https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/va-diverting-resources-to-give-migrants-medical-care-one-of-the-worst-insults-to-veterans-veteran-affairs-illegal-immigrants-immigration-southern-border-healthcare
And here is Mayorkas and McDonough (head of Homeland Security and the VA Sec himself) saying the exact same thing https://www.dhs.gov/news/2021/07/02/dhs-va-announce-initiative-support-noncitizen-service-members-veterans-and
Now as I said, I fully expect you to give that 100. to your local VA and then provide proof of same after you remove your foot from your mouth.
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Rev'd Andrew
Aww honey! Reading and comprehension really aren't your strong point! Go back and read EXACTLY what I wrote in my challenge. Okay, that may be too much to ask of you...so let me copy and paste for you and capitalize the important words:
Daniel, please show me WHERE IN THE ARTICLE it says that THIS CHARITY is throwing veterans out of "rooms they were renting to give to illegals."
Now, I fully expect YOU to donate the $100 you just lost to The Annunciation House that is the focus of this article, and PROVIDE PROOF of same.
I also invite you to take a moment to examine the hubris that got you to this point.
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Daniel Gray
How wonderful. You demand proof and you are given proof and since it does not fit your agenda and proves how ignorant you are on this subject, you then proceed to project your failings on someone else to save face.
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Rev'd Andrew
What proof did you provide that THIS charity was kicking veterans out of accommodation to provide room for migrants? NONE
So, again, pay the charity and prove that you have done so and maintain some moral credibility.
Or, as you seem inclined to do, lie and claim to hold some moral high ground.
I don't care which you choose. But whichever it is, you will show the ULC community whether you have any credibility left.
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Daniel Gray
And I guess your understanding of English and comprehension is sorely lacking as WHEN did I ever state that it was THIS charity that was throwing anyone out. The thunder you hear is not thunder but the laughter of people at you on how you try and twist reality to fit your agenda and beliefs.
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Rev'd Andrew
Child, remedial classes need to be in your future.
I asked Pamela Kay Waters how this charity, by its actions, is "taking away from our own helpless people."
You jumped in and, apropos of nothing, asked me to "explain why Veterans are being thrown out to take the rooms they were renting to give to illegals." Note that neither Pamela nor I had said ANYTHING about veterans. We were discussing the article and whether the charity was right to be helping those Pamela says aren't "our own."
Since the original article had said nothing about veterans being thrown out of rooms, and since this charity has not thrown anyone out of a room to provide shelter for those they minister to, I asked you to justify your baseless claim, and bet you $100 you couldn't.
You are now on your forth response and still you have been unable to provide evidence, and still you haven't paid the bet (even though you jumped on me to pay up when you foolishly thought you'd bested me).
All this illustrates at least two things: "empty vessels make the most noise" and “What you vow, pay. Better for you not to vow than to vow and not pay.” (Ecclesiastes 5:4, 5)
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Daniel Gray
what a lot of word salad. You asked me to prove it and I did, and here you are backtracking so fast that the rubber on your sneakers is melting.
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Rev'd Andrew
As I suspected, honor and honesty are not virtues you aspire to live by.
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Rev'd Andrew
Have you made the donation yet?
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Daniel Gray
Thats what I should be asking you but then again all I see from you is smoke and mirrors as you cant refute the links I gave proving you are ignorant on this subject
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Rev'd Andrew
Again:
"Since the original article had said nothing about veterans being thrown out of rooms, and since this charity has not thrown anyone out of a room to provide shelter for those they minister to, I asked you to justify your baseless claim, and bet you $100 you couldn't."
You lost the bet, and yet you haven't donated to the charity.
Not all veterans are honorable I see.
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Daniel Gray
Again read this thread and you will see that it was about veterans being tossed out to make room for illegals and I proved it with the links I gave. Whats so hard for you to understand?
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Rev'd Andrew
Danny, Danny, Danny...PLEASE try and read. I'll post the original challenge/bet I made. Again:
Daniel, please show me where in the article it says that this charity is throwing veterans out of "rooms they were renting to give to illegals." I'll bet you $100 you can't.
The keys words are "show me WHERE IN THE ARTICLE it says..."
Nowhere in the article does it say that vets are being kicked out. The fact that you didn't actually READ my challenge thoroughly doesn't change the FACT that you LOST the bet.
Be honorable and make the donation?
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but YOU need the comprehension. I gave you different links from Congressional hearings right down to local VA hospitals all saying the same thing, and you are so scared to admit that you are wrong that you refuse to even make the 100. donation you promised to make if proved wrong. Guess we now know how much your word is worth
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Rev'd Andrew
Again, you're responding to a question that was never posed.
You invented a challenge that didn't exist to avoid being wrong and having to pay up.
No honor.
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Daniel Gray
Once again I proved what I said and you are now trying to do everything in your power to weasel out of your promise to donate 100. to Veterans Hospitals. So tell us, where exactly is YOUR honor?
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Rev'd Andrew
No, Danny, you haven't.
One LAST time:
Daniel, please show me where in the article it says that this charity is throwing veterans out of "rooms they were renting to give to illegals." I'll bet you $100 you can't.
The keys words are "show me WHERE IN THE ARTICLE it says..."
Nowhere in the article does it say that vets are being kicked out. The fact that you didn't actually READ my challenge thoroughly doesn't change the FACT that you LOST the bet.
I pay when I lose. It seem Danny WHINES and LIES.
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Daniel Gray
Ok andrew, ONE LAST TIME...SHOW everyone on this thread exactly WHERE I said it was this charity? Want to bet you cant and as such makes all the whining you have done moot.
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Rev'd Andrew
Okay Honey, one last time (though why you can't just scroll-up yourself I don't know):
Rev'd Andrew Aug 07, 2024 at 05:12 am (4 votes) How is it "taking away from" others? This charity is helping those who need it where they are. It is the US government's job to provide for veterans, and to provide social safety nets for the unhoused.
Rev. BH Aug 07, 2024 at 09:03 am (4 votes) Good point, Andrew. A charity can do as its donators wish, but the government has a duty to care for vets and our homeless (not doing that too well, huh?)
Daniel Gray Aug 13, 2024 at 03:57 pm Really? then please explain why Veterans are being thrown out to take the rooms they were renting to give to illegals. Explain WHY VA Hospitals are turning away Veterans to give treatment to illegals. Your post and the one who agrees with you are both so wrong its breathtaking.
Rev'd Andrew Aug 14, 2024 at 09:00 am (0 votes) Daniel, please show me where in the article it says that this charity is throwing veterans out of "rooms they were renting to give to illegals." I'll bet you $100 you can't.
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Daniel Gray
yet again all I see is BS from YOU and nothing from me that is saying anything like what you are claiming. No wonder people laugh at you instead of agreeing with you
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Rev'd Andrew
Here was the challenge I gave you, and to which YOU CHOSE to respond:
Daniel, please show me where in the article it says that this charity is throwing veterans out of "rooms they were renting to give to illegals." I'll bet you $100 you can't.
I get it. You're regretting that you didn't bother to READ the challenge I set you, which is WHY you have never been able to WIN.
Ignorance isn't an excuse. You ACCEPTED my challenge, and LOST, BIGLY.
A man of HONOR would pay the bet and learn a lesson (read). Are you an honorable man, Daniel? Or are you all hat and no cattle?
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Daniel Gray
And I ignored your attempt as I NEVER said this charity was throwing anyone out. WHAT I said was Veterans were being tossed out of apartments and housing and it was GIVEN to illegals and I proceeded to prove such with actual accounts. Again at NO time did I say it was this charity.
Having trouble with comprehension are you? Or are you just trying hard not to make the donation to the VA Hospitals knowing that it would show you for not being able to read and understand?
Anyone who can read can read this thread and clearly see that I am correct and you are not, so maybe you should stop digging the hole since it is already far above your head and getting ready to have the sides collapse/
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Rev'd Andrew
No, Honey, you are the one struggling with reading and comprehension. Still!
I asked: "How is it "taking away from" others? This charity is helping those who need it where they are."
You responded with: "please explain why Veterans are being thrown out to take the rooms they were renting to give to illegals."
So, follow along here if you can, buddy...
I SPECIFICALLY was talking about THIS charity and asked HOW it was "taking away from others."
YOU responded with the claim that "Veterans are being thrown out to take the rooms they were renting to give to illegals"
So, in DIRECT RESPONSE to my question, YOU made the claim about veterans being tossed out. Hence my challenge.
Let me break down for you one more time.
I asked a question.
You responded with a claim about veterans.
I challenged your claim.
Now, you could just admit that you went off on an unrelated rant about veterans being screwed over and accept that your response to my question was irrelevant, and pay the $100 to the charity.
Or you could keep lying about the situation and prove that accountability and honor aren't important to Daniel Gray.
Your choice.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Comment removed by user.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
That’s mighty christian of ya’!
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Daniel Gray
this from an atheist. And why should we support them when we have citizens of our own that are being denied support. If you want to support them feel free. But I bet you wont and that Zerp is the perfect example of being a hypocrite because you are trying to demand that we do something that you wont do.
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Rev. Michelle Love
The problem is that these migrants have melanin and not pigment.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Illegals? Yes, they know that Americans will take care of them, just like these religious charities do. It's not right. Why don't they go south instead of coming here?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Have you considered the thought that it may be closer to get to America for some of these people than South America? Or that maybe living on a continent where animals such as jaguars and boa constrictors run rampant might not be an appealing place to go? Or that the justice system in that area is not a just as ours? People should have the right to live a life free of prosecution and just because these people came into the country through the southern border instead of the other three does not mean they are not entitled to a life of liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
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Anglia Key
I completely agree, BUT there's a right way to go about crossing the borders and there's a wrong way. Evil has no place here. Please do not forget or be blind to the fact that some of the illegal immigrants have raped, mugged, beaten, and even killed innocents (Americans) just with hours or days of being here. If you have nothing to hide, do thing legally and seek asylum. Don't come in already breaking laws. As far as feeding starving people, yes, by all means help them. Although when it comes down to feeding, housing, and taking care of illegal immigrants or criminals for that matter is aiding and embedding, which is a felony crime.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Nothing in this article indicated that these migrants were illegal. Also, why are American's allowed to drive into Mexico without being accused of being illegal but Mexicans aren't afforded the same benefit of the doubt? Many migrants come here to do the jobs that we do not want to do ourselves and return home after their work is done. And while your statement may be factually true, it is also true that our own government has detained these individuals in the past and have also committed similar if not worse atrocities to them behind the confines of these walls to include forced fertilization. If evil has no place here, then encourage the attorney general to leave because shutting down a church charity because he does not like who is benefiting from it is the definition of the term.
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Daniel Gray
explain just how you figure that when 85% of them come from South of the Border? What was wrong with the law that said if they are fleeing prosecution then they must first stop in the next country and apply for protection there BEFORE moving on to the US. They dont because that country wont give them all the free things the US is giving them
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Rev. Michelle Love
Mexico is south of the border. Where else can they go before they hit US soil?
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Daniel Gray
And they are in mexico but most of them had to cross into another country BEFORE they even got to mexico.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel,
Do you remember the story of how St Patrick drove all the snaked out of Ireland? Well those snakes were actually pagans and they fled to the United States for refuge. What country did they have to stop in before they got here? And what legal processes did they do before they arrived because, if my history lessons serve me correctly, all they had to do was sign their names in a registry at Ellis Island and go about their merry way.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but there never was snakes in Ireland every since the last Ice Age it has been way too cold for them to exist there. Now while St Patrick was a real person it was thousands of years between him and the last ice age.
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Rev'd Andrew
Aww Honey! Yet another example of your lack of reading and comprehension skills...
Rev. Love CLEARLY states "those snakes were actually pagans." What she means by that is that it wasn't SNAKES being driven out of Ireland, but PAGANS. They were METAPHORICAL snakes, not LITERAL snakes.
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Daniel Gray
Showing your ignorance yet again I see, here is a direct quote from him "Rev. Michelle Love Aug 16, 2024 at 05:58 pm
Daniel,
Do you remember the story of how St Patrick drove all the snaked out of Ireland?"
Now you can pull your foot from your mouth
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Rev'd Andrew
Honey, try reading AND comprehending.
Here's the full quote from Rev. Love:
Daniel,
Do you remember the story of how St Patrick drove all the snaked out of Ireland? Well those snakes were actually pagans and they fled to the United States for refuge.
Again, the first sentence reminds us of the myth of St Patrick (that he drove out the snakes), and the second sentence provides the context (there were no literal snakes, they were metaphorical snakes: pagans).
Where is the "fake claim"? Rev. Love made her point clearly and succinctly. You appear to not understand it.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Rev Andrew,
Thank you for helping clarify my point.
I appreciate this platform because it affords me the opportunity to share my views on religion as I do not have anyone in my life that I am able to discuss such things.
I would like to remind Daniel that the church has always been considered a sanctuary. If we all abide to the terms listed on this site of being respectful and constructive; criticize ideas, not people; and avoid profanity, insults, and derogatory comments, the ULC can be a safe space for all who come here. If you cannot agree that we are all children of the same universe and, as such, all deserve respect as we all should be considered reverend whether we claim the title or not, then please consider finding another platform to vent your spleen so as not to ruin it for everyone else that is actually here to grow in their faith.
Thanks in advance for your favorable consideration.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, I do not know why you are deliberately taking things out of context in order to start a fight, but this is the wrong platform for that. If you want to be a troll then set up an account on Reddit.
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Daniel Gray
whos taking anything out of context when I am quoting exactly what was said by the poster?
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Lori-Ann Neeb
When it comes to Mr Gray's ramblings, consider the source, he is avrightfighter that only wants you to say you are wrong and he is right. The issue itself does not matter to him. That is how rightfighters think and why they will try to use any tactic of deflection to prove their point no matter how insane or false it may be. Why does he come on this page anyway? All are welcome of course but why stay where everyone disagrees with you?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, Thank you for making my point and for proving that you read for conflict and not comprehension.
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Daniel Gray
you need to stop trying to foster your own problems on others.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, This does not answer the question of where the Irish stopped first before getting to America since apparently that is a requirement.
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Daniel Gray
you can post three times to CYA, but it isnt going to work as anyone with any brain cells knows you opened your mouth and then got destroyed and now you are trying to cover your rear with fake claims.
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Daniel Gray
sorry but it does.
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James Mounts
Yes feeding illegals is a crime, it is called abetting.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
So you believe that leaving people to starve is a good idea? What do you think Jesus would do?
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Pamela Kay Waters
What about taking care of our own right here in our own country. A lot of the needy here are our Veterans, Homeless not by choice and many others.
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Daniel Gray
And if they would have stayed in their own country are we supposed to make sure they didnt starve? You seem to forget there is a legal way to come here and if they had done that there would be no problem. Also federal law requires you to be able to provide for yourself without any benefits or give away's and thats even if you are legal. So if we are not going to allow this for legals, then why should we do it for illegals?
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Pamela Kay Waters
We are over flowing with people that need help we don't need people that don't need to be here.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
That’s mighty christian of ya’!
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Daniel Gray
and this from an atheist......
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Pamela Kay Waters
Thank you
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Pamela Kay Waters
Really. You want to take care of them.
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Daniel Gray
exactly Pam. We have more then enough actual citizens that need help. we dont need to take everyone who decided that they would rather live here and get free stuff then stay in their own country and try and make it better. When you have Veterans living on the streets because they cant get help and then you have someone from south of the border or north come in and demand we provide them with free housing and food and money, there is something wrong
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Pamela Kay Waters
I don't think he would likepeople being illegal
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James Mounts
Jesus would tell them "GO AND EAT NO MORE until you cross the border southbound."
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Dennis L Dueck SR
It is very hard to believe that you want to claim to be a Minister/Christian with this mind set, where would you be if this same attitude was enforced when your ancestors came to this Great Country? Think about your roots before trying to judge others.
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Eric Laspe
My ancestors immigrated legally.
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Rev Ned
The native Americans were OK with it? Interesting 🤔
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Russel A. Kester
Ned, yes, native Americans were OK with this. As per Oxford online dictionary a native is "a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth...." So if one were born in the United States of America, then one is a native American. And those who were native Americans at the time had immigration laws which our ancestors followed. Legally. They adhered to the laws of the United States of America which is the country to which they immigrated.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Maybe the Native Americans should've turned them around. Then they wouldn't have and still are treated as they are.
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Keith Graham Ainsworth
Jesus wouldn't recognise your borders
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James Mounts
He created them.
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Rev. BH
How'd he do that?
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James Mounts
Genesis 11
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Rev. BH
You completely miss the point of Gen. 11. Nothing to do with border lines. Quite the opposite. "the Lord confused the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth."
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James Mounts
DUH!
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Lori-Ann Neeb
Aside from the fact that the bi le is a manmade publication with many inaccuracies which I do not consider to be valid proof of any point or opinion, people forget the bigger picture. This earth is not our real h9me. We reincarnate here to live lives to perfect our souls for God when we choose. Then we return to our real Home. All except dark entities return there to judge ourselves as to how well or not we fulfilled the life contracts we wrote before coming g down then resume our real lives as our real selves there. For all I know our resident hater, Mr. Gray, may be a nice guy there. Lol. There the realm is divided 8nto quadrants according to the entities chosen occupation, if you will. But other than that no one cares who did or did not claim any certain faith or nationality. Those are human concerns we leave behind when we return. So, if they do not matter there, why should we care while still here? We should love and accept all as they are for who they are as our spiritual hearts tell us.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
That's laughable.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Not just starve but die of exposure in the hot Texas sun.
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Pamela Kay Waters
That's why they need to stay home or go south.
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Rev. Michelle Love
So, you would advocate to force people fleeing war-torn countries to stay where they are and risk death instead of allowing a charity that was created for the sole intent and purpose of providing food and shelter to those in need to do their mission? That is mighty charitable of you.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Do you really feel that caring for homeless hungry people is illegal? I thought ministry was about following a higher power ; how can you hold such thoughts and still minister to others? I’m so sorry you feel this way!
— Paula Copp
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Pamela Kay Waters
Not Americans, Veterans, homeless do to circumstances that they had no control over
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Keith Graham Ainsworth
Do you really think that these people have control over their lives?
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James Mounts
Who else decided they should come here?
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Pamela Kay Waters
Why are our veterans treated they way they are? Who decided that? They don't have any control. Help our own 1st. DUH
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Yes, we have the same problems with our citizens too. I have a relative who works with vets, many of whom are suffering from PTSD. Some very sad stories. I don't see illegals getting more than vets, though. Anyone who believes that illegals have a smooth ride has been hoodwinked by fearmongers who are setting you up for an us vs. them scenario. We seem to need someone to blame/excoriate, and who is first in line for that? The "other".
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Rev Ned
Seems there’s a lot Christian in name only (CINO) peeps here. Let’s sing the hymn, 🎼 Jesus loves me but He can’t stand you!
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Daniel Gray
You are more then welcome to come along and support them if you wish. Want to bet that you wont and dont except by word only. That my friend is what it means to be a hypocrite.
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Keith Graham Ainsworth
It amazes me that people call themselves Christians but don't want to help people in need. The proponents of the 'let them starve' policy are generally right wingers and are the antithesis of Christ's message. The main reason that I left the 'Christian' church was the hypocrisy. This is not a criticism of grassroots Christians, they tend to be genuine. I used to teach in Catholic schools and met some absolutely wonderful people, but structurally, the churches are evil
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Check out James Talarico a representative from Texas. The exception to the rule. Speaks like Bernie Sanders.
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James Mounts
My ancestors came LEGALLY
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Dennis L Dueck SR
I don't recall anything about legal/illegal residents in the bible, do you?
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ServantOfJudgement
Dennis, yes. God declared the Israelites the new legal owners of the land of Canaan. He had the old demonic and wicked Canaanites killed or expelled from the land. Borders of lands are important to God for his reasons, one being peace for man.
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James Mounts
And afterward God repelled all invasions of non citizens
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Pamela Kay Waters
Well there you illegal lovers go.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Show me where in this article where they mentioned that these migrants were illegal. I'll wait...
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Paul Andrew Breda
The uninformed believe that if they came across the border, they are illegal - when in fact asylum seekers have been welcomed to this country for decades now.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Exactly! There is a bronze plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty that says "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." This invitation does not only extend to immigrants that come in through Ellis Island. I truly believe the United States of America is the Promised Land prophesied in the Bible and that the Attorney General is trying to assert himself as God by limiting those who can enter through our pearly gates.
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Daniel Gray
and the law also says come here LEGALLY. you seem to forget that little part.
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Rev. Michelle Love
And you seem to forget that there is nothing in this article that says that these migrants came here illegally.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but their signs clearly show they are.
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Pamela Kay Waters
And how old is that? Many things have changed since then. Do you people not understand,, that it's not just Mexicans coming through, there and terrorists using this opportunity to sneak in. What will you say then when there is a major I mean MAJOR terrorist attack here on AMERICAN GROUND that was fought for OUR FREEDOM .
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Rev. Michelle Love
Pamela,
If you are referring to the age of the plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty, it is 99 years younger than the Constitution of the United States of America. The last time the Constitution was changed was in 1992 and it had nothing to do with immigration.
In regards to terrorists, there are already many home-grown terrorists walking around freely in our country. Many of these people do so under the guise of fraternal orders that spout the Bible and do community service in their neighborhoods. And what about the school shooters in this country? Did you know that according to statista.com that, as of June 2024, 81% of school shooters were white, 13 percent were Native American, and 6 percent were of Latin descent? What do you propose to do about these people who are unraveling the fabric of our country from the inside out?
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Daniel Gray
Read the signs. they are ADMITTING they are illegals. And even if they were not f3ederal law says they can only come here IF they can legally support themselves. Now if they are getting free food and housing how are they supporting themselves?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel,
There is not one sign displayed in that picture where anyone is admitting that they are illegals either in English or in Spanish. Are you implying that people who are bilingual must be in the country illegally?
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Daniel Gray
And why would you say that unless its your opinion? todos somos comunidad Means we are all community. aqui exqtamos y va nos vamos means here we are and here we stay. texas escucga means we are community and is a chant from illegals. and the one kneeling is clearly stating she is a migrant/illegal and the one holding a stamp looking postcard is a well know activist for open borders.
Now if you would have bothered to actually READ the signs then you would already know the answer to your own question, that not one of these are legal. maybe you should do some homework before opening your food pit?
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Rev. Michelle Love
I would love to know where you get your information because none of your translations are actual admissions of being illegal. For all that we know, these signs are being held by actual members of the charity.
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Daniel Gray
A person named Tony Rios Sr who has been speaking Spanish and reading it from the time he was 7 years old.
SO you want to go tell this man that his explanation of what the signs say is wrong? I mean he is only 78 years old and I would bet that he knows more about Spanish then you ever will.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, Yes I would. If he only started speaking the language at the age of 7, that would indicate that Spanish is his second language as most people start learning how to speak at the age of 2.
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Daniel Gray
Poor delusional one. You mean to tell me you expect him to be READING at 2 years old? Spanish is his FIRST language as he was born in Mexico City. And the last time I looked Mexico City is in Mexico. You really must like being proved wrong so many times else why do you constantly post stuff that is so easy to prove wrong?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, If you take a closer look at what you posted, you said that he, quote, "has been speaking Spanish and reading it from the time he was 7 years old." If you do not want your words to be misconstrued then try to be more concise about what you post online.
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Daniel Gray
exactly he has been speaking spanish longer then he has been reading it. What part of this logic dont you seem to understand?
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Pamela Kay Waters
So right. They just want FREE FREE FREE everything
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Najah P Tamargo
Najah Tamargo-USA You know what I think? Everybody needs to sit down, shut up.....and show some LOVE!! Isn't that what Jesus would do?
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Pamela Kay Waters
Yes and take care of our own. Do you know how our veterans are being treated just for you to say this stuff
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Rev'd Andrew
Where did Jesus command us to "take care of your own, and let everyone else starve to death"? Chapter and verse, please.
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Daniel Gray
and where did Jesus command that we just accept anyone into our homes and provide for them?
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Rev'd Andrew
"love thy neighbor as thy self"
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Daniel Gray
nice cherry picking. At that time a neighbor was in the same city as yourself, not forcing themselves as illegals are doing.
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Rev'd Andrew
No Sweetie, you're wrong again.
When Jesus says this he is telling the parable of the Good Samaritan, and the purpose of telling that story is to illustrate the version of the Golden Rule (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you) found in the Old Testament.
Jesus taught us how to love our neighbor when He responded to a lawyer’s question in Luke 10:25-37. First, He sums up the entire Old Testament law in two statements: Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. Then, in a striking parable about a Jew and a Samaritan, He illustrated that loving others is accomplished by actively, humbly, and sacrificially showing mercy.
Jesus’ parable shows us two kinds of people. On the one hand, we see the Jewish priest and the Levite who walked right by a man who had been beaten and robbed, indifferent to his plight. On the other hand, we see the Samaritan, moved with compassion, who went out of his way to meet the needs of the man lying on the side of the road. Jesus confronts us with the heart of His story as He brings the lawyer to the logical conclusion:
“’Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?’ And [the lawyer] said, ‘The one who showed mercy toward him.’ Then Jesus said to him, ‘Go and do the same’” (Luke 10:36-37).
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Daniel Gray
wrong yet again as usual. Show me WHERE in the Bible that it says that anyone is supposed to accept someone into their homes and feed and care for them for as long as they want to stay. I wont hold my breath waiting as that verse nor command does not exist and never has. It says to help them, NOT to support them
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Rev'd Andrew
Who said anything about being commanded to "accept someone into their homes and feed and care for them as long as they want to stay"?
No one.
Who said we are commanded to "support them"?
No one.
You are fabricating an argument out of your own imagination.
Again.
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Daniel Gray
yep just as I thought, you make a claim and then when asked to prove it you go into word salad.
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Rev'd Andrew
You fabricated an argument out of your own imagination.
Again.
“’Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?’ And [the lawyer] said, ‘The one who showed mercy toward him.’ Then Jesus said to him, ‘Go and do the same’” (Luke 10:36-37).
You call the Holy Word 'word salad'.
WOW
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Daniel Gray
How can I do that when I asked you to prove that the Bible says we are to support them and you have yet to do so and now you want to whine and try and claim that I called the Bible word salad when I did no such thing. I said YOUR response was word salad. Pretty deceitful when you cant even back up your own claims and then start telling myths about others.
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Rev'd Andrew
The fact remains you keep changing the goal posts.
First you claimed I said we were commanded to "accept someone into their homes and feed and care for them as long as they want to stay". That was a lie. No where in this thread did I claim that, which is why I challenged you. You have failed to show that I did.
Now you want me to show "that the Bible says we are to support them" which is a NEW ask.
But here you go:
Luke 12:33 "Sell your possessions and give to the poor."
Matthew 19:21 "sell what you have and give to the poor"
Oh, and try being less emotional and more precise in your responses.
Love & light!
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Daniel Gray
nobody is moving the goal posts except maybe you as anyone can see from your replies.
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Rev'd Andrew
As usual, you avoid accepting when you have been proven wrong.
Pride before a fall...or maybe you've already fallen, which is why you are so sore.
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Daniel Gray
pride goes before the fall, boy then you have one MAJORLY LARGE fall coming.
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Rev'd Andrew
Not me, brother.
Take a look in the mirror.
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Thomas P. Davis
2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
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Rev'd Andrew
Children eat, though they do not work. The retired eat, though they do not work. The sick eat, though they do not work.
Words are important, and the important word here is "would": "if any WOULD not work."
We feed children, the elderly, the sick, and refugees not because they refuse to work ("would not") but because they CANNOT work.
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Thomas P. Davis
The family I grew up in, we children had chores to do around the house. The sick probably did work before they became ill. James says true religion is taking care of Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. I am talking about those that REFUSE to work. I am talking about those that would come to our food bank, with their expensive dogs, clothing, cars etc. I am talking about the panhandlers on the street in my state that make six figures a year. We are told to be good stewards with the finances that the Lord gives us, not to just throw it away frivolously. If you have a few pennies in an ashtray that puts you in the upper 8% of the wealthy people on the planet. The other 92% don't have any loose change.
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Rev'd Andrew
Thank you for illustrating my point: the admonition is against those who COULD work and don't ("if any WOULD not work"), not those who CAN'T work.
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Daniel Gray
Children DESERVE to be fed if they are yours and even the law requires you to do this.
The Retired have already put in their 30 plus years so they deserve to not have to work if they dont want to, unlike you.
And how do you know that the sick didnt already work and put in for their health insurance? You dont. so why are you opening your mouth on items that mean nothing here and only attempt to enhance your opinion and fail to do even that?
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Rev'd Andrew
As usual, your response is apropos nothing.
Try and make sense.
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Daniel Gray
as usual, when you are proved wrong the best you can do is to tell people to make sense when you have not made sense anytime you open your mouth
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Rev'd Andrew
Prove me wrong, and I will concede.
Until then, all I am reading are your excuses
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Daniel Gray
already did more then once and you have tried everything in your power to change it and have failed each time.
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Rev'd Andrew
Try READING:
the admonition is against those who COULD work and don't ("if any WOULD not work"), not those who CAN'T work.
Learn the different between COULD and CAN'T
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Keith Graham Ainsworth
Your veterans are treated well, and they volunteered to fight, and got paid for it
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Lion on the Beach
You obviously have never done any ministry in a VA Hospital. You obviously have never done any ministry in a homeless center and listen to the Veterans stories about being "TREATED WELL". As a retired 23-year veteran myself, I suggest you spend some time on the street or in the hospitals to gain some obviously needed education concerning veterans.
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Rev. Michelle Love
I am a veteran myself that has ministered at the VA Health Care System for almost a decade. I can tell you first hand the atrocities that have happened to both myself and the other patients at these facilities
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Daniel Gray
Dont you just love it when a non Veteran tries to tell us Veterans exactly how we should be grateful for all the stuff the VA does for us? So I guess I am supposed to be grateful for the damage to half my spine that needs an operation to fix and yet I was told by my orthopedic doctor that this needs to be fixed yesterday and since I informed the VA about this in early May and so did my ortho surgeon, that I am to be ever so grateful that it wont be until late October that that I am able to get into see the Neuro Surgeon because the VA had this on their desk for over 90 days before they even decided to do anything and even then it took a demand from the Washington VA office for them to actually admit that I needed to see the Neuro surgeon and allow me to go see him? Or maybe I should be glad that the Surgeon told the VA that if they would have got off their rear and got this authorized I would be in after surgery PT right now instead of waiting for the pre operation consultant still over 60 days away? Or maybe I should be grateful that there may be further damage because of the VA sitting on their thumbs? Or maybe a friend of mine who need neck surgery and has been waiting since the end of the Vietnam war for the VA to get him treatment? And now he may not get it because he is too old and his heart is so bad that he might not survive the surgery he needs?
Yea right Ainsworth, we Veterans should be ever so grateful for the VA, the same VA that we were promised would treat us if we were injured in the Military? You clearly have about as much knowledge of the VA and how it works as someone passing gas in a high wind.
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Rev. Michelle Love
I would beg to differ. Some of our veterans were drafted to fight in a war that had nothing to do with us and came back home to be treated like lepers.
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Michael Holland
WWJD
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Jesus would be at the border setting up huge tables and giving everyone who crossed a meal, and he would say "We will do what we can to help you, but you must be patient, and be willing to work peacefully with us.' And he would encourage everyone who follows him to do the same.
Jesus would also loudly denounce anyone who shouted hate and vilification toward the migrants, for he would state that the traveler that is seeking refuge from tyrants and brutality deserved gentility. That the families seeking aid deserved a soothing hand.
He rejected those that spread hate and vitriol against others.
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Pamela Kay Waters
And where sre we suppose to house them whenwe have so many homeless now. Most of you are so dumb you just and brainwashed you don't care about Americans. There is not enough to go around. STOP and get your heads out of the sand. Have any of these illegals fought for your right to talk so dumb
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
There is more than enough to go around. In fact, there are thousands more houses available than there are homeless individuals. If rich oligarchs cared about Americans, which I assure you they do not, they would not allow houses to simply sit empty and end up decaying and falling apart. They would allow homeless individuals to live within them, esp. homeless families, and care for the homes.
I assure you, I'm not unintelligent, though your writing style and comments shows your level of education to be quite lacking, and it's quite apparently I've more compassion in one finger, than you do in your entire body
And yes, there have been many undocumented migrants that have fought for our nation and even died for our nation. Of course that is something, I'm sure, you do not care about. And no it's not being "brainwashed" either. Unless being compassionate toward other human beings is somehow "brainwashed."
It's quite obvious that you, yourself, are completely against everything that Jesus was for. Compassion, human dignity, being kind to travelers in need, and so forth. And, to the point, our economy would completely collapse without all the undocumented migrants that come across. Areas that have managed to get rid of all migrants have found that the economy in their area has dipped significantly.
Areas where undocumented migrants leave the region have found that they are no longer able to continue construction projects, including critical infrastructure repairs, for example. The service industries in the areas end up suffering due to severe lack of employees, and many farms, both crops and animal, in the area end up suffering for lack of workers as well.
Of course, I'm sure you're also the type to spit on homeless people and call them "Lazy Addicts" and say that they "deserve to be homeless" am I right? Sorry kiddo, but your arguments are nothing more than bigotry and hate. The very things the Jesus of your bible despised and spoke out against. It's not unlikely he'd renounce you for such behaviors.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Why then are there people living on the streets in every state and not in any of these houses that are so abundant? Because these houses are given to the people the churches bring over, the low lifes that don't appreciate the home and destroy them and bring in bad people from adjoining states that brings crime. I'm not a bigot I don't spit on homeless but I did ask a beggar why he can't find a job when all the restaurants and stores around him have help wanted signs, his answer was he doesn't have the best past. This guy's beard is well groomed he rides a very expensive mountain bike, that he parks a couple stores away, and people have seen him out to dinner with his family at Roadhouse. And if you haven't noticed our infrastructure has collapsed and the worst is yet to come. How's that.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Pamela Kay Waters. You said, "Because these houses are given to the people the churches bring over" Wrong, big time wrong. And yes, you ARE a bigot if you think someone who comes from another country to escape brutality is a "low-life". And yeah, there ARE some people, US CITIZENS, who grift the system.
And no, "Our infrastructure has not collapsed" Not in the slightest. Yes prices have risen. Kinda happens when you have a pandemic and the GLOBAL supply chains suffer. That, along with price gouging done by companies, will do that. Not that many people who want to scream hate toward undocumented migrants will acknowledge that "inconvenient truth". Our infrastructure is just fine. In fact, our GDP is quite high, despite a one day downturn, our stock markets and down have consistently remained higher than any other time in history before WWII, unemployment is STILL at record lows, and there are many places still screaming for people. IF, that is, people are willing to take the jobs.
Why are there so many living in the streets? Simple answer, Corporate Greed. Banks are more willing to allow a house to slowly fall apart and end up condemned, and use them as a tax write-off, than they are to allow a homeless family to move in, clean it up, fix it, and do a "Rent-to-own" deal with the bank.
Then there are the super-rich individuals who, literally, will own TEN houses in an area, and barely use any of them because "Oh those are my guest houses" or "oh those are just my spares". And the houses will be huge, pristine, with pools and everything, and yet, barely see anyone ever living there. But gods forbid someone so much as runs under the eves of the house to escape a rain storm. "You're trespassing!"
THEN there's the landlords. The vast majority of rental places are owned by mega-corps. And a TON of those mega-corps are ones that have overseas owners. And not just apartment buildings. They're now starting to snatch up small one family homes that are up on the market. They'll buy them, and then, sometimes without even doing any renovations if it's needed, and jack up the price to the point that NO ONE, short of someone who's making over $200,000 a year, AFTER taxes, can afford to buy it from them.
They, then, jack up the prices every six months, sometimes every THREE months, just to make a profit. They'll also buy already occupied rental buildings where the owners are wanting to sell, or bully and harass the owners into selling, and then jack up the prices to the point that the ones currently living there become completely incapable of affording their rent. And, because the same corporation may end up owning every single apartment building for over a mile in any direction, getting a place once they LOSE that apartment due to rate hikes is almost completely impossible.
As far as Crime is concerned? Undocumented migrants are more apt to be the VICTIMS of crime than the perpetrators of it. Are there a few that sometimes do commit crimes? Yes. I would be lying if I said otherwise. But guess what? The vast majority of crimes are being committed by US Citizens, NOT the migrant individuals. The ones going into big cities and committing crimes? Yeah, most of the time, NOT the migrants.
Also, the crime rates have been consistently going DOWN, not up. And yes this is a proven fact.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/#:~:text=Using%20the%20BJS%20statistics%2C%20the,hasn't%20always%20been%20steady
The only reason people think the Crime Rates are going UP is because of mouthpieces constantly screaming into microphones about how "Crime is rampant" and, usually, blaming vulnerable groups who are often unable to fight back without brutal consequences against them. When the fact is, perception differs greatly from reality in this case.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2024-06-12/crime-trend-data-competes-with-perception-problem
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, while I agree with you that some of the causes for the lack of housing (wealthy people and corps owning them and raising rents to unaffordable prices) I don't agree that crime is going down despite official numbers that might indicate that they are because many (if not most) DA's in our larger cities are lowering the crimes from felonies to misdemeanors and the laws in those states allow the crime of theft to go unpunished and thus underreported. Those issues skew the results. Although I haven't heard the WEF continue it's propaganda that we will own nothing and be happy (presumably because either the wealthy or the government will own everything) it seems the original vision is still being carried out. What do you think?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Heh, hey Danny-boy! Actually, everything I've stated is 100% truth. And where did I state, anywhere, that I said "Cut military budget for social programs"? And "Shut down military bases"? I did not state that in any place in my posting. LOL Projection much?
I didn't say ANYTHING about our US Vets here in any way. You're apparently screaming about someone else and claiming it was me. And yeah, I do read what I post before I post it. I try to avoid typos if I can. You, apparently, do not.
Simple fact is, we don't need to cut our military budget to do these things. What we NEED to do is remove the tax breaks from the ultra-wealthy upper 1%, and move that money into programs that aid in building infrastructure that help our poor and vulnerable. There are tens of thousands of homeless vets already. They come back from overseas, sometimes badly injured, and once their military service is up, they are simply ditched without assistance outside of the VA. That is why bills to increase funding to the VA is so essential.
You're the one who's making those claims, not myself.
How about reading what I state before you start spewing absolute garbage? Because it's quite obvious you read, maybe, two sentences and then began a hate-filled rant. How about reading what's posted and posting a reply that makes sense first.
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Daniel Gray
Nothing you have said has been proved so its your OPINION. So how about you take your own advice and start making sense in your posts...sort of like the old saw "before you complain about the splinter in someone elses eye, maybe you should do something about the forest in your own?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Russel. This is 100% Untrue. Crime rates, across the board, including both misdemeanors and felonies have gone down in general in the United States.
No the DAs in the larger cities are not lowering the crimes from felonies to misdemeanors because they cannot do such. To lower the status of a crime within the law, the state lawmakers must do so, not the DA's. So no, it's not skewed at all. And yes, even thefts are reported even if they are not always punished. Usually because the individual(s) in question cannot be found and get away, or they are first offenders and given community service or other such things to start with.
When I was 11, I was caught shoplifting. I had to go back to the store, admittedly this was back in 1984, and pay for what I stole. The store owner then grabbed me by the shirt, and right there in the store, took a wooden paddle to my backside. I never shoplifted again.
There were no courts involved because, back then, I was just a stupid 11 year old kid. What did I walk off with? Six packets of plant seeds. I loved botany even as a kid.
Now days, everything is recorded, there are vid cameras everywhere, and crimes are caught and reported when they happen. And, as I put for information in those URLs above, which I know you likely didn't even bother looking at, crime, in general, IS going down across all boards. The problem is, thanks to shock-jocks screaming into mics and talking heads screaming to get reelected, along with social media and regular media, one would think that the streets are running red and that the entire nation is now suffering PURGE conditions.
However, obviously, that is 100% not true. Multiple metadata research studies into crimes and statistics have all stated the same thing. Crimes, across the board, have gone down. It's the perception of the conditions at this point, that is the worst problem.
And as far as the World Economic Forum? No, they never said that "You'll own nothing and be happy about it." And they are not some huge monstrosity that is trying to control all governments and put the jack-boot on people's throats. What they ARE, is a think-tank that discusses how to help more people become entrepreneurs and to encourage people to open businesses and become investors.
And, btw, it's not a "group of global leaders" either. In the large scheme of things, they can't do much other than talk.
https://president.georgetown.edu/wef/
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Daniel Gray
Bridget you have shown your complete ignorance. I mean you want to help Veterans according to the jisty I get from your post, and then you turn right around that demand we cut the military budget for your social programs completely ignoring the simple fat that by cutting the budget we will be closing military bases and putting Veterans on the street because the military will be overstaffed? Do you bother to read the nonsense you are trying to claim BEFORE posting it?
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Rev'd Andrew
There is PLENTY to go around, if only we actually taxed $billionaires and stopped spending the majority of our tax money on wars in other countries. Cut the military budget in half, tax millionaires and billionaires at the same proportion of income as school teachers and nurses, and the US will have more than enough money to provide things that countries we financially support have, like universal healthcare (I'm looking at Israel).
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Rev. Michelle Love
Cutting the military budget would be the easiest way to go. Did you know that there is no provision in the Constitution for the Space Force, Air Force or the Marine Corps?
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Russel A. Kester
Michelle, with rising tensions globally, cutting our military spending would be unwise. Our Naval fleet is aging and needs to be replaced with better ships. Japan and European countries are all increasing their military budgets in response to the threats posed by an unholy alliance of Russia, North Korea, China, and Iran. China has been spending on its military for years with the expressed purpose to defeat ours.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Russel, Some of the money can be reallocated to the Navy to repair and replace the ships in their fleet. However, I do not see how these new ships can battle the threats of Russia whose tactic seems to be tampering with presidential elections; China of biological warfare; North Korea of cyber warfare; and Iran of controlling oil prices that affect our economy in a negative way.
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Daniel Gray
How about we gut the budget for non needed departments in the Government? Like NPR/PBS (if its a public radio or TV channel then let the public pay for it. Even with all this money the Government is giving them they STILL go on "pledge funds" Heck PBS can support itself just off the proceeds of Seseme Street. Or the Dept of Education (you know that before President Carter, there was NO such department and Carter only made it to give thanks to the Teachers Unions.)
We could stop funding idiot things like this and have more then enough to pay off a substantial part of the 32 Trillion we owe for our national debt. And as for the tax on Billionairs, do your research. according to the US Treasury these "rich" you keep talking about already pay close to 85% of the taxes now and if they were taxed the same as you claim your tax rate would increase to almost 77%. The top 1 percent earned 26.3 percent of total AGI and paid 85.8 percent of all federal income taxes. In all, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined according to the IRS and US Treasury. So again imagine what your tax rate will be if they got it cut down. And you also need to explain why people making money should have to pay higher taxes just because you dont want to. I can introduce you at any time to my neighbor who lives in a modest home and pays more in income taxes then I would bet your whole family does in each year. He showed me his last years tax forms and he paid in close to 432,000.00 in income and state and local taxes. Now tell us please when you have ever earned that in your lifetime and yet you are saying he needs to pay more???
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Rev'd Andrew
Sweetie, the way taxation is supposed to work in the US is that individuals pay a proportion of their income in taxes, not a fixed amount. So all you beautifully-researched facts and figures about dollar amounts are as pointless as tits on a bull. Scrap tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy so they pay the same actual percentage as nurses and teachers.
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Daniel Gray
even more myth and hot air from you as usual when you cant disprove anything that was said.
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Rev'd Andrew
Comment removed by user.
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Rev'd Andrew
Ahhh, so it's "myth" that taxes in the US are calculated as a proportion of income rather than a set dollar amount?
The following is from the IRS website (federal-income-tax-rates-and-brackets)
2023 tax rates for a single taxpayer For a single taxpayer, the rates are:
10% on taxable income from $0 to $11,000 12% on taxable income from $11,001 to $44,725 22% on taxable income from $44,726 to $95,375 24% on taxable income from $95,376 to $182,100 32% on taxable income from $182,101 to $231,250 35% on taxable income from $231,251 to $578,125 37% on taxable income from $578,126 and up
Facts vs Danny-boy's "hot air"
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Daniel Gray
Facts that I use come directly from the IRS and the US Treasury. So lets see you try and call them liars now.
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Rev'd Andrew
Sweetie, I just copied and pasted from the IRS website. You are more full of it than a NYC waste treatment plant.
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Daniel Gray
Nothing you have stated is or has been documentd as even the IRS and the US Treasury are claiming your "figures" are mythical. You are more nutty then Mr peanuts outhouse.
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Rev'd Andrew
Here's where I got my facts and figures:
https://www.irs.gov/filing/federal-income-tax-rates-and-brackets
So, EVERYTHING I stated is, and has been, DOCUMENTED by the IRS and the US Treasury.
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Daniel Gray
Nope, even the source you try and claim backs you up clearly does not.
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Rev'd Andrew
Prove it. I gave you the web address, and, earlier, a cut and paste from that same page.
All you seem capable of is false witness.
A Pharisee, a wolf in sheep's clothing. It seems your horns are showing.
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Daniel Gray
Ok all one has to do is look at the charts on the link you gave and it clearly shows that you dont know what you are talking about
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Rev'd Andrew
Sure, Danny. Whatever you want it to be. This angry arrogance of yours is so unnecessary. Let God help you heal the scared, angry little boy that rules your life. Take the time to deal with your trauma, and you will find life isn't a constant battle to be "right".
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Daniel Gray
and the best you can do is whine and complain as less then a third down the webpage it has a chart and it clearly destroys you
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Rev'd Andrew
you must be doing this new, trendy "girl math"
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Daniel Gray
Still waiting for you to show me where I said anything about This Charity doing anything to Veterans, you are going to get lung cancer with all the smoke you are spewing.
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Cowboy
I am a former homeless person and I am a Veteran. I feel sorry for those that feel this way because Jesus will put them with the chaff on judgement day. There is plenty of housing in our country if people like you get off their butts and help.
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Cowboy
Also at one point in Jesus life he was an illegal immigrant in a foreign country. He was 2 years old.
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, I don't think so. When Jesus was presented with the question of taxes, his response was to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God. You see he stayed out of Politics as his mission was spiritual. Let Christians surmise what Jesus would do and let Pagans speak for their own Gods.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Just because I am Pagan does not mean I don't know about your Jesus. And I know exactly what he would do. Yes, he would very much have gone to the border, laid out a table for the migrants, and offered them his aid. Btw, I was born and raised Roman Catholic. I broke away by age 15, but I have read multiple bibles over the years.
Aiding undocumented migrants isn't "politics", it's called human compassion. You're right, his mission was spiritual. But his mission was also to spread things such as human compassion and to try to get people to aid each other, and for that kindness to be more than just "within one's own borders" but universal.
Unlike the bigots here in the USA, whom Jesus would very much have denounced, he would have most certainly advocated for them to be homed. To be fed, to be cared for. To be HELPED. He would very much denounce those who turned their backs on those in need. As far as the "Taxes" question, that has nothing to do with helping the undocumented and streamlining things to help them.
Though speaking OF Taxes, Undocumented Migrants pay BILLIONS in taxes every year to the United States. And yet, receive none of the benefits those taxes allow for. Yes some STATES aid them, but federally speaking, they get no assistance.
As I stated earlier, Jesus would've loudly denounced those who turned their backs on those who come asking help and in great need.
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Russel A. Kester
Perhaps, but you forget things about the Christ like his telling people to no more. He also told them to repent. So, illegals should repent and return to their native lands and sin no more by not returning unless do so legally.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Caesar was a Pope that both asserted himself as God and ruler of his land. I think that Jesus may have inadvertently got Himself involved in politics whether He realized it or not.
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Russel A. Kester
Michelle. Interesting thought. I don't think so as the Jewish population was generally exempt from emperor worship in the Roman Empire. However, it does seem that the Sanhedrin made it appear as if Jesus was trying to become a king as scripture says that a sign was hung above him on the cross which read, 'Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.'
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Rev. Michelle Love
Russel, The Jewish population may have been exempt from emperor worship, but they weren't exempt from taxes. The Roman Empire forced the Jews to tithe in order to worship in the temple. Jesus removed this requirement by meeting people where they were; in their homes, in the town square, on the mount. He effectively found a way to take money out of the Roman Empire's coffers and the emperor took offense to it. Also, knowing that many of the Jews were independently wealthy, why would they allow a man that lived as a pauper and relied upon the kindness of strangers to get by to be their king? Knowing that Christianity is a practice that punishes one person for crimes committed by many and knowing that Jesus died for our sins, I believe that title was one issued by the Roman Empire to indicate that Jesus would be the person being punished by death for tax evasion.
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Russel A. Kester
Except that we have in scripture that the Christ specifically look a coin showing Caesar's image on it and said to give Caesar what belongs to Caesar. We also have versus in scripture that say Jesus had a practice of going to the temple and teaching. Finally, in the Gospel of Matthew we find a story in which Jesus speaks with his followers about paying the temple tax. He instructs his followers, “Go to the sea and cast a hook; take the first fish that comes up; and when you open its mouth, you will find a coin; take that and give it to them for you and me” (Mt 17:23-27). So, I don't think paying taxes or avoiding taxes is what got Jesus crucified.
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Rev. Michelle Love
The people who sought to crucify Jesus tried to do so by any means necessary. They came up with a bunch of trumped up charges to include tax evasion, draft dodging and providing false prophecies. The money He is implying that is owed to Caesar were taxes on wages not tithes that people were being forced to pay to the temple. I am sure that you will agree that the idea of people actually finding fish with coins in their mouth is like saying that there are trees that grow money as leaves. Jesus was famous for the parables He told and I believe that this was one of many metaphors that were written in the Bible that has been taken literally to the detriment of society.
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Russel A. Kester
Michelle, I asked Google AI about how Jews were taxed 2,000 years ago. Here's its response which you will note does not include a tax on wages as you suggested, "The Romans taxed Jews in a variety of ways, including censuses, poll taxes, and indirect taxes: Fiscus Judaicus This tax was levied by Emperor Augustus and required Jews to pay two denarii, which was half of the shekel they previously paid to maintain the Temple of Jerusalem. The money instead went to the Temple of Capitoline Jupiter, a major center of Roman religion. Some say this tax was humiliating for the Jews. Census The Romans used periodic censuses to assess direct taxes. For example, in 6 CE, Quirinius conducted a census. The average census-based tax for adult men and sometimes women in Roman provinces was five denarii, which was equivalent to one day's wages for a paid agricultural worker. Indirect taxes These taxes could go to Rome or benefit the province, city, or tax district where they were collected. Examples include sales taxes, tolls, and duties on transported goods, which were paid in cash at various locations."
The story of the fish isn't fashioned like a parable. It does not include the usual words that 'he taught them saying' or similar verbiage. Instead it reads as a narrative just like the last supper,. crucifixion, and resurrection. So if you don't believe the fish narrative what do you believe about the others?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Russel,
Google AI may not be the best source for information regarding this matter. The Bible says that the Hebrews were imposed a Temple Tax every time they attended synagogue. According to ULC's Human Timeline of Mythology and Religion, Judaism existed hundreds of years before both Christianity and Catholicism, which would imply that they were the only people that had to pay this tax on top of all the others the Roman Empire imposed on its citizens.
The Bible serves as a tool to test people's discernment. If you truly believe that you can find fish with coins in their mouths just because someone famous told you so, then you are proving that you will fall for anything under the right conditions.
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Russel A. Kester
Michelle, yes Judaism did exist before Christianity by about a thousand years give or take a few centuries. But the temple tax as practiced at the time of the Christ was a Jewish custom not a Roman law. The Romans taxed the Jews through tax collectors like the Apostle Matthew as was written in Scripture. As for the temple tax, "The Jewish Temple was a focal point of pilgrimage for Jews in ancient times. The form of worship was by a contributaion, mostly an animal sacrifice. But there was another contribution every male was oblidged to provide – money. By Jewish religious law, as commanded in the Bible itself (Exodus 30:13; 38:25), every male Jew over the age of 20 had to give an annual contribution to the temple." the source is https://dannythedigger.com/the-temple-tax-coin-in-the-time-of-jesus/
As for fishy stories, how about this one, "You would not, for example, expect to find a century-old religious manuscript inside a cod, would you? Yet that is exactly what was discovered in 1626 when a fishmonger gutted a cod brought to market in Cambridge, England. The fish guts were tossed aside, but a woman standing nearby noticed what looked like a piece of canvas in them. Taking it out, she found the soiled, fishy-smelling pages of a manuscript wrapped in sailcloth. These she showed to an employee of Cambridge University who took them to Dr. Samuel Ward, master of Sidney Sussex College in Cambridge. The pages were carefully cleansed and found to contain three devotional works by John Frith, an early Protestant martyr who was burned as a heretic in 1533. No one knows how the pages wound up in the belly of a cod, but they were published in 1627 as Vox Piscis, or Voice of the Fish, a book that has prompted lively debate for centuries." from https://www.gameandfishmag.com/editorial/strangest-things-ever-found-inside-fish/338392
So, could the Son of God have known that a fish had swolled a coin? Maybe so, after all according to the Bible, Jesus saw Nathanael while he was under a fig tree before Philip called him. This is described in John 1:48. Seems the Christ was rather psychic.
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Rev. Michelle Love
I will agree with you about the fact that Jesus was psychic. He demonstrated this with the woman at the well but in a manner that makes me wonder what His true nature was. Did He have to choose the most embarrassing aspects of her life to prove he had psychic abilities?
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Russel A. Kester
Michelle, interesting take on the story of the woman at the well. I really don't know if there was another way, but the way he did it worked, at least according to Scripture. It's truly awesome that we both think that the Christ of Scripture was psychic. Truly. I'm of the mind that asceticism might also promote such abilities as some yogic practices also seem to promote developing the siddhis. This would seem to agree with the ideas that we are to be transformed by our faith. This is a great conversation.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Russel, I think there is always another way to do things. Would you want to be judged solely by your past by some random psychic that read your mind without permission? She could not accommodate His request for a drink of water because He had nothing to retrieve it with so He decided that He was going to tell her about herself. Seeing the way Jesus' hands are positioned in paintings of Him lead me to believe that He was very familiar with yogic practices. One of the main themes of the Bible is psychic ability and how to determine who was a false prophet and who was the real deal. I am glad we are having this conversation because despite popular belief, psychic ability is real and there are people being either misdiagnosed with mental conditions or being persecuted by people like the woman at the well that have things they'd rather not want the world to know about because they have admitted to having a sixth sense.
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Thomas P. Davis
Why jump so far ahead into psychic ability. He walked on this earth as fully man. Could he not of been a good listener as well. There was most likely much talk about this woman and her life passed around in town. Just like all the gossip that was passed around in high school on the behaviors of certain girls.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas, Jesus was a prophet who was able to talk to God via telepathy. The Bible is full of men who had the same ability due to either the trauma of war or eating the flesh of animals that were infected with Mad Cow Disease. Also, according to the story, Jesus and His disciples had just arrived at the outskirts of a new town and He sent them ahead to get provisions while He waited at the well. There was no one else around for Him to listen to and I doubt that He is the type to sit around and listen to people gossip when He is the one people come to hear speak.
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Rev'd Andrew
Isn't the relevant teaching from the feeding of the 5,000 rather than the "render unto Caesar"? I read Bridget talking about feeding the hungry with charitable donations. I didn't read anything in what she wrote that referred to politics. Maybe you can elaborate on your position and your criticism?
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Russel A. Kester
In this case Caesar is our government which created the law that says crossing our borders illegally is not permitted and is a felony. Rendering the proper respect to that decision made by a representative government by abiding by its laws and not aiding and abetting those who do violate our borders thus working against our government to find and deport them.
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Rev'd Andrew
That seems rather a stretch, since Paul's Letter to the Romans clearly states that all authority, whether in the home or the state, is subordinate to the will of God "and is subject to his Word," meaning that where the two conflict, God's Word is primary. This is reinforced in The Acts of The Apostles where we learn that "We ought to obey God rather than men." And what did Jesus say? "Whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me."
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Russel A. Kester
Andrew, true. However, in the New Testament, Paul also says to submit to governing authorities in Romans 13:1-7: Romans 13:1 "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established" Romans 13:5 "Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
When government tells you to worship Caesar instead of God, then one must not obey. But when the government issues legitimate decrees within its authority as granted by God, such as borders and security, then obey the government.
God doesn't say anywhere in the Bible to feed illegal aliens or to aid and abet them. God does say to care for the hungry and homeless who are your fellow citizens (neighbors).
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Rev'd Andrew
We will have to disagree. The quotes you provide from Paul's Letters to the Romans do not refute the overarching assertion that God's Word is supreme. As I'm sure you recall, Christian's were martyred under the Romans because of their civil disobedience, the result of them choosing God's Word over Roman rules.
Similarly, we will have to disagree on the interpretation of the word "neighbor." We are told to love our neighbors as our selves. No where in the Bible is "neighbor" defined as "fellow citizens." Indeed, the parable of the Good Samaritan explicitly illustrates the importance of tending to the needs of those who are "not like us."
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Russel A. Kester
Andrew, it seems we do disagree. As for the story of the good Samaritan, the Samaritans were genetically related to the Jews. So, the two main characters in the parable were most assuredly 'neighbors'.
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Rev'd Andrew
We are all part of the same human race, making us all genetically related, and therefore all "most assuredly 'neighbors'."
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Russel A. Kester
LOL. You're a true globalist, eh? Although all people of earth have similar genes, we also have nations (at least for now) and they don't all get along very neighborly. But for those who do get along well enough with one another, I agree with the sentiment that good fences make for good neighbors.
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Rev'd Andrew
I'm a human who recognizes the unearned benefits I enjoy as a result of the place and time of my birth, the family I happened to be born into, and the environment in which I was raised. I didn't get to choose any of this, nor did I "deserve" or "earn" any of it (though some adherents of some religions would disagree and assert that karma determined all of these). As a result, I don't feel entitled to the wealth and opportunity I enjoy that others do not, and so I do not begrudge them the opportunity to attain a better life.
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Russel A. Kester
Andrew,. there's so much I wish to ask about, but this doesn't seem the right time. However, I will ask one question for now and save my other questions for other opportunities. How many illegal aliens and legal immigrants should they US accept?.
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Rev'd Andrew
I'm glad you specifically ask about the US. The US should accept every illegal alien from any country they have had a hand in destabilizing, any country whose domestic politics they have meddled in, any country on which they have imposed economic sanctions, and any country they have militarily (overtly or covertly) involved themselves with.
The citizens of the US, by and large, have no idea how much successive governments have involved themselves in other countries for economic gain. Desperate people trying to cross the southern border deserve our help, not our hate.
We, collectively as the US, did this to them.
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Russel A. Kester
Andrew, I think I'm safe in saying you have no numerical upper limit. So, if 2 billion people have been affected by our government's activities, both past and present, then you advocate allowing all 2 billion to enter the US. That's a lot of people!
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Rev'd Andrew
You offer a highly-improbable number, but I'll play along. Yes, I would advocate for allowing all 2 billion to enter. Now, in reality that wouldn't happen since a rational administration would recognize that the best way to avoid 2 billion people adversely affected by the US government's international meddling seeking asylum would be to [a] quit meddling; [b] provide real restitution for harms caused (thereby making conditions in those countries conducive to people to stay).
Of course you and I both know the US will never do that, since the corporations and ideologues pulling the strings of the "republic" will never allow America to give up its highly profitable imperialist business plan. So, the asylum seekers will always be with us.
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Robert James Ruhnke
But they arent pagan, Jester. How dare you speak for them when you have no business doing so. For not being a Christian fundamentalist wannabe you claim youre not, you sure do like to make a lot of their rhetoric and talking points your entire personality. Taxation and feeding the hungry are a false equivalency, it’s certainly not a matter of taxatio as you’re projecting it as. Though. I’d not fret one but if my taxes paid for shelter and housing of the homeless. It is the neighborly thing to do. I am indeed a pagan, but I will speak for Christians who are being attacked by right wing cultural zealots playing at Christian.
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Russel A. Kester
Yes Robert, it seems that you do assume the right to speak on behalf of those identities to which you don't belong instead of letting them use their own voices. Ever ready to be the white knight to save the poor, ignorant masses from expressing themselves. But then it might be because you wouldn't like what they have to say.
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Thomas P. Davis
How would this verse play in with all that we see in our country and government? 2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
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Mark Hannon
I decided to donate to the organization for the second time in two days because I read this article and another yesterday.
I used to donate every Sunday to the church I also played the service music for. I left that church, in the middle of a service, when it was obvious that the bigotry of the members could not be taught or preached away.
Now my donations are for any organizations that help the poor, needy, ANY immigrant and the otherwise humble.
The Annunciation House can be donated to through PayPal or on its website so it was very easy.
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Thomas P. Davis
I am careful what charities I donate to. The people at the top of some of those pay themselves very well. Look up and see for yourself on Charity Navigator. This includes the place by me that takes in those poor homeless starving puppies. I try to support only those where God gets more bang for the buck.
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Robert Gagnon
Dated a girl once that had a charity license for up to three locations that took in clothes for resell like in a thrift store. Qualifications were minimum 3% of all profit had to go to the charity in the contract, 7% went to the charity commission issuing license, and the rest could be pocketed by the holder of the license. The way I read it this was profit after overhead. So yes some organizations don't give much bang for the buck. Makes you wonder about all those wealthy folks giving those high priced charity parties and bragging how much they raised.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
More "bang for the buck" means what exactly?
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Thomas P. Davis
More bang for the buck means the people that the money is intended for get it and not somebody that created the organization. I think of all of those cute little charity boxes that used to be sitting on store counters everywhere. Many people started those because all that was required is for you to purchase the container and submit a certain dollar figure to the charity every month. Any extra you were allowed to keep. When the Cleveland newspaper did a story on them, all of a sudden most of those boxes dried up.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Thomas, thank you for this information. I hadn’t heard of this before, but I intend to use it in the future.
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Charlie Russell Wheaton
No one, not even the govnerment has a right to tell you who to help it's charity, helping humanity is what we as humans do best.
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Russel A. Kester
Charlie, the government does have the right to demand that it's citizens not aid and abet enemies and criminals. Crossing the border illegally is a felony. So helping an illegal is aiding or abetting a criminal.
Great middle name! 😄
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Joshua Ervin
May God bless you for being so humble that you don’t fall prey to the state or media convincing you to abandon your faith for their absence of. So many people on here have lost their way or perhaps never knew the path before them, but I pray they will one day find the path that leads them to the lord.
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Cowboy
Jesus Christ instructed us to obey the laws of the land unless they disagree with the laws of God. God and Jesus Christ said to feed the hungry no matter who they are. Not to pick and choose. Jesus Christ broke many man's laws and many of man's traditions.
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Pamela Kay Waters
But were there terrorists and drug dealers then. Wouldn't he consider them to be Pagens or have the devil in them
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Bobbie Ramer
No ma'am, Jesus would NOT consider terrorists/drug dealers as Pagans or have the devil in them. After all, if you read the scriptures, you will see that Jesus did indeed cast out demons(devils) when and where it was needed. Remember please, that Jesus walked with, sat with, taught, and ate with all kinds of sinners. The immigrants in this article are the VERY people Jesus encourages us to look after in Matthew 25: 31-46.
Respectfully. Bobbie Ramer, Commissioned Lay Pastor PC(USA)
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Pamela Kay Waters
But if we our country cant handle the overcrowding then it need to stop. Doesn't anyone one of you brainwashed people care about our veterans and how they are treated when they come home or as they get older. No. It's all about these poor immigrants and what a hard life they have. Yes come to America the churches will take care of you. On a scale I think it's not even close to helping our own. So remember WHO gave you and keeps giving you the right to speak this nonsense.
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Clay Serenbetz
Overcrowding, where?
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Clay Serenbetz
Reading the posts, I guess these individuals would prosecute those who fed slaves fleeing through the underground railroad. That's sad. Republican's policies are often cruel and this is another example.
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Russel A. Kester
Poor comparison. Slaves were either brought here against their will or were descended from those who were and were justified to seek freedom. Illegal immigrants are not being brought here against their will. In fact, they are breaking the law to get here. These two groups are not comparable.
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Clay Serenbetz
In my opinion, migrants are not coming of their own free will. Instead, they are fleeing persecution in their home countries. They risk death in their flight to safety. Have you no compassion?
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Eric Laspe
All of them? That’s a wildly unfounded assumption.
Btw, they are not just “migrants.” Let’s call a spade a spade. The people at issue in this article are aiding illegal immigrants—criminals, by definition.
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Russel A. Kester
Clay, interesting how in their flight they come equipped with current cell phones and cellular service. They are not fleeing persecution. They want the good life we still have for now in America. A true asylum seeker has other ways to achieve that goal other than illegally crossing our borders. I have compassion. I also have a brain. You too are making an appeal to emotion to form a narrative you hope will bypass one's reasoning skills or silence others because they don't want to be seen as uncompassionate. This is not a question of compassion. But nice try deflecting from the real issues.
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Daniel Gray
Or the slaves were rounded up by their own people and sold to slavers. Just look at Viola Davis's movie the Woman King and do some research, you will find that African tribe would go out on raids and then take prisoners and sell them to slavers and they were not the only ones doing it.
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Joshua Ervin
That is a horrible example or comparison, perhaps you should open a book and read about the history of the United States and the history slavery, you will see that you are backwards in your thoughts. Those that are persecuting this Church are not doing so from one side or the other politically! I pray that you find the path to our lord. God bless you my child.
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Clay Serenbetz
Does you "Lord" countenance such lack of compassion to travelers. I refer you to your book: Matthew 25: 31-40. “I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.”
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Daniel Gray
its factual, so why are you so upset with history and facts?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
These are the same people who are trying to ram through laws that will force schools to teach children that slavery was a good thing. That the slaves benefited from it and that it was wrong to free them because the entire race has suffered due to being free.
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Rev. BH
Bridget, you have a good heart and intelligent, researched opinions. Don't let the professional antagonists flame you with arguments for arguments sake. Take a deep yoga breath and let the angry ones rant on. Nothing you say will change ignorant, hardened hearts. But some of listen. Speak to us.
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Russel A. Kester
BH, is that another way of saying 'preach to the choir'?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
I think what BH is saying is that there are far too many individuals screaming hatred and to harden our hearts, and I am advocating that we actually follow what Jesus taught. That is to say, welcoming others, being kind, accepting, and understanding no matter how different people are, how they came here, who they are, etc. And to try to help people whenever we can. No matter who they are.
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Russel A. Kester
That was a sweet response.
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Daniel Gray
name me one bill Bridget that does as you claim. Name me one state or federal member of Congress or state assembly that is doing what you claim. I wont hold my breath waiting for you to show these mythical bills that claim slavery was a good thing. Oh and BTW, you do know that there were Black slave owners as well? Or that some Blacks had Native Americans as slaves? Sort of destroys your whole rant now dont it?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Daniel, name you one state that forces that? Ok, Florida. Don't believe me? Look it up yourself. It is now required reading that the history courses are taught by using information written by the Far-Right group "Prager U". They are forced to teach, in those schools, that slavery was good for slaves and that they were generally "Happy and well kept", which is VERY far from the truth. Oklahoma also requires such, as does Tennessee.
And yes, I am aware that black individuals also owned slaves, and that some had Native American slaves as well.
No, it doesn't destroy "my rant", which, btw was not a rant but a post of pure, unadulterated, information. But then again, you've already proven your bigotry and hatred toward anyone who has dark skin, so I'm sure you support the politician who shouted to his constituents about Jim Crow "So what if they had to use separate water fountains, who cares? It was still the same water"
It's considered a crime in those states, btw, to teach ACTUAL American History. Instead of the WHITE-washed version of it. And who are doing it? Ok. DeSantis is one. Another is Margie Greene. US Senator Tom Cotton, Louisiana Representative. Ray Garofalo, want me to list MORE names? I've several. You asked me to give you ONE, I've given you several more than that.
Your BS is easily debunked and falling apart. Your hatred must truly run deep.
Oh, btw, no, the fact that blacks owned slaves doesn't destroy anything.
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Daniel Gray
yet again you make a claim and then dont back it up and get upset when you are proved to have lied.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Daniel Gray -- And what claim have I not backed up, and what have I "lied" about? Hm? Every single thing I've stated is 100% true and CAN, in fact, be looked up by any individual with more than two brain cells to rub together.
You want proof of what I stated? Very well, here you go. Right from the Floridian Legislature. I KNOW for a fact you won't read it Danny-boy, but since you're lying through your teeth and saying that "No state enforces that"... here you go.
https://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf
This is the LAW as put in by DeSantis and the GOP in Florida. It FORCES schools to teach that slavery wasn't "all that bad" for the slaves and that it benefitted them. And that those that put it in any other light are "lying".
You want more proof? Ok. Alabama Senate Bill 247. This bill forbids schools to teach about "divisive subjects" such as black history and slavery. Meaning that teachers who try to teach their students about ACTUAL American history, not the WHITE washed version, will risk losing their jobs over it.
You see, Danny-boy, I speak only the truth in these matters, and have lied about nothing. I come with proof, though I'm WELL aware all you're going to do is rage post and scream *Liar! Liar! Liar!" and plug your ears and go "La, la, la I can't HEAR you!"
But others reading this will see that I have not been lying at all. And, to use an old adage, I "come with receipts." Meaning that I come with PROOF of my claims.
You have, yet, to prove a single one of your claims to be true. Oh, and to nail home your BS you earlier stated about migrants and crime. Here are some FACTS for you.
And again, I come with PROOF on my side. A-Political and completely without any "agendas" other than unadulterated research.
US born citizens are more likely, per capita, to commit violent crimes in the USA, and often against undocumented migrants, than migrants are to commit them.
https://www.cato.org/blog/new-cato-research-shows-illegal-immigrants-are-less-likely-be-convicted-murder-texas
And then there's THIS gem. That compares, again, crime rates of undocumented migrants, legal migrants, and US born citizenry. Again, I'm WELL aware you won't read it. But I know those reading these comments WILL read it and see you for the bigot you are.
https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/308552.pdf
I have tons more, but again, I know you'll just plug your ears, screaming "yer a liar!! yew dunno nuthin!" and stomp your feet. Not surprising, given that proven facts from unbiased sources are something you are completely incapable of accepting.
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Daniel Gray
Did check your claimed sources Bridget, and sorry for you, you should have done that as well.
The Florida Social studies law does not say one thing of or about what you are claiming.
The Alabama isse just states that you cant blame everything on other races, nothing more
and your ojp link does not back you up either
My Lord do you actually like making up myths and telling falsehoods about your opinions?
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Rev. BH
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk, you did your best. And your comments remain uncontested, only attacked. There are two here who's only job is rebut everything.
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Daniel Gray
The law is the law. If you come to this Country legally YOU have to support yourself or your sponsor has to. You should not think that you can walk across the border and expect to get all kinds of free things. I mean really, they just busted a guy in Ohio from Columbia who was using tic tok to tell people that you could come up to the US and find an empty house and squat there and its legal (actually it isnt) and then another one from NY who stated that he came here because he didnt want to work and got him a girl and got her pregnant now he lives off the taxpayers money. Sorry but no. If you want to come here LEGALLY then welcome. If you think for one second that you are going to cross the border and just start mooching off our tax base, then you have another think coming. The taxpayers here do NOT have any responsibility to you nor anyone else to provide for what you refuse to work for.
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Rev. BH
These people would love to have jobs here and support their families. There are many jobs available to them that Americans are not seeking or taking - too hard, to lowly. Then there's the "System", that has, and always will, looks down on and seeks to dis-include "The Others. The Blacks, the Irish, Italians, Jews, Muslims. Welcome to America!
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Russel A. Kester
BH, there is no system as you speak of it. Illegal immigrants taking jobs as speak of hurts the poorest in our nation as these are the people who will take those jobs when the employers (you'd likely call them capitalists) pay higher wages. Illegal immigrants do not help our economy they damage it.
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Rev. BH
"The System" was in quotes. Let's call it the State of Things, the Way it Is, the Un-Christianity of Angry, Frightened White Phony Christians Who Fear Replacement. You name it. If the illegal aliens are taking jobs, its because they remain unfilled. Are your poor friends going to harvest potatoes all day in the burning sun? Pull weeds? Be real.
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Eric Laspe
You think that describing jobs as “lowly” means people don’t want them. Your implication is those jobs are not dignified work, which is insulting to the people who do this hard work we rely on.
Americans want those jobs. Remember that “Americans” includes recent legal immigrants. The legal ones waited in line, often for several years. Should we reward criminals with the jobs our citizens and legal immigrants want?
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Russel A. Kester
BH, the thing is, yes, the poorest of Americans would do those jobs if not given generous government handouts. My first foster parents told me of their experiences as migrant farm workers when they were young and they were white. They did what they needed to do because the government did not give them free stuff. Keep our borders secure, deport all current illegal immigrants, and require that anyone getting government assistance be required to accept farm work when available. You seem to think Americans are all lazy. Not true. My adoptive family grew a garden every year and we were out there pulling weeds, doing maintenance work, and harvested it in the fall. There are channels on YouTube that show farmers kids doing their farming. Farmers are not what the used to be. They're highly automated. As for your potato concerns, Google AI informs me that, "Yes, farmers use machines called potato harvesters to harvest potatoes."
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Pamela Kay Waters
And there are some of the races you mentioned that bring crime upon themselves. But still our good honest hard working AMERICANS deserve jobs before these. Especially the veterans who are treated like horses ready for slaughter. Again they fought to give you the right to say COME ON INTO AMERICA . Have any of you been to a veterans hospital, have you helped our wounded warrior's project? Well go and see and give they need it more than bringing all those into our country. How many terrorists do you think have slipped in, have you thought of that? No you just think it's a good deed under the eye of the Lord and let anything come in. Think beyond the oh save and feed everyone give them a place here spread them out among the states. Come on people, REALLY?
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Nelson Bank
You should see the young families arriving at the shelters after Border Patrol vetting. They are ready to work.
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Eric Laspe
Ready to “do the jobs Americans don’t want” is it? That’s an erroneous assumption.
But this article is about aiding immigrants who came here illegally.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Read the article again. It says nothing about them coming here illegally. It says they are migrants, not immigrants. Migrants are temporary residents and immigrants are here for the long haul.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Christians attacking other Christians with different points of view is as old as Christianity itself. When it wasn’t orthodox Christians attacking gnostics. When it wasn’t Catholics attacking Protestants, it was Protestants attacking Catholics.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Send them back. They have it better here then our homeless. Take care of our own. We don't need migrants.
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Joshua Ervin
Well said, that is exactly the stance that Jesus would take.
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Rev. Michelle Love
These migrants travel here seasonally to do work our own citizens think they are too good to do. It is attitudes like this that is causing grocery prices to skyrocket. Think of the bigger picture before condemning people who are only trying to make money to provide for their families in a legal manner and, in turn, providing for ours in the form of affordable produce prices.
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Russel A. Kester
How do illegal aliens living in NYC or Chicago or San Diego help with migrant farm work? And if one wants to be a migrant farm worker isn't there a legal way that's done?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Believe it or not, there are farms in NYC and Chicago and San Diego has several vineyards that would benefit from the use of migrant labor. There is nothing in this article that is saying that these people are illegal. Being under such scrutiny for being located near the Mexican border, I believe that the people who are employing them are ensuring that they have the proper work permits seeing that they have to report the money they pay them to the IRS.
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Daniel Gray
Um sorry but as anyone who looks at a map can clearly see, there are NO farms in NYC and the ONLY major green space is Central Park which is not and never has been a farm. All you have to do is loot at google maps to see this claim is wrong. And as for Vineyards in San Diego, again not exactly true as the closest vineyards to San Diego sit well over 20 miles outside the city none are located inside the city limits
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, This would be a valid argument if farms were listed on maps. Try Googling farms and vineyards in these areas like I did and you will be given a list of them in each location.
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Daniel Gray
I did and they are clearly listed on google maps. SO this busts your bubble yet again
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, So are you saying that you did see the farms and vineyards I found on Google on Google Maps after all? I am confused about how this is supposed to bust my bubble the first time, not to mention yet again.
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Daniel Gray
yes I did in NY State but the closest farm I found to NY City is well over 3 hours north of there.
Try and see if this fits your agenda
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, What is your definition of a farm? Does it need to contain a barn and or sit on a particular size plot of land? I am not sure why you are thinking that people here are trying to bust your bubble somehow or that they are here for some agenda. Farms come in all shapes and sizes and can, indeed, be found in major cities. If you were willing to look up the information in the manner that I showed you, you would concede that what I am saying is true.
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Daniel Gray
an area of land and its buildings used for growing crops AND rearing animals, typically under the control of one owner or manager. "a farm of 100 acres" h Similar: smallholding holding farmstead steading grange plantation estate farmland land acreage acres vineyard croft ranch station pen shamba
tope the main dwelling place on a farm; a farmhouse. "a half-timbered farm" a place for breeding a particular type of animal or producing a specified crop. "a fish farm" an establishment at which something is produced or processed. "an energy farm" a collection of networked computers used together to perform a task too great for a single computer to undertake. "we are becoming dependent on companies with huge server farms"
verb verb: farm; 3rd person present: farms; past tense: farmed; past participle: farmed; gerund or present participle: farming
1. make one's living by growing crops or keeping livestock. "he has farmed organically for five years"
This is what the US Government classifies as a farm.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, So, according to this definition, my former neighbor that had a chicken coop in her back yard for the sole intent and purpose of breeding silky chickens for their eggs was a farmer. Thanks for corroborating my response even though I know it was not done intentionally.
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Daniel Gray
Nope, that was called a HOBBY it was not a farm. Nice try but major fail.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel,
According to your post, to farm was to, quote, "make one's living by growing crops or keeping livestock."
If my neighbor was able to survive solely on the profits of the eggs she sold at the farmer's market, would that not constitute as making a living? Silky chickens are considered live stock regardless of the size of the land they lived on. Plus, the fact that she had to get a permit to even be allowed to have these animals on her property leads me to believe that this business was way more than just a hobby for her.
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Daniel Gray
Nice try. You would need quite a few more then a "few chickens" to make a living off them. I can take you to Coopers farms who does indeed raise chickens anmd turkeys and makes a nice living off of that, BUT in saying that they have quite a few more then a few chickens, at last count they had close to 1.5 MILLION chickens and over 3 MILLION turkeys.
Try again
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Rev. Michelle Love
Pamela, You cannot control how a private charity uses their funds. Telling the Annunciation House not to provide emergency food and shelter for migrant workers coming in from Mexico is like telling the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation not to help homeless people in third world countries. The people that need to be taking care of our own is the United States Government and they can start by keeping their noses out of other countries wars. In the meantime, unless you are of native descent, I would recommend refraining from telling anyone to send anyone back as this country was founded by immigrants. And consider the work that these migrants do that our own citizens refuse to do so. Migrant work is back-breaking work that helps keep our food prices lower. Whether you realize it or not, our country is in the midst of another depression and refusing to let them in to do seasonal work that everybody in this country benefits from only serves to hurt our economy and farmers nationwide.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
It's sad how much hate and vitriol people have against undocumented migrants. Almost all of these individuals are fleeing tyrants and trying to escape to a better life. For those who are screaming the tired old tropes of "der taking our jobz!", at the same time they scream "der bein' lazy an' livin' off our taxes!" and "der jest vermin, animals an' criminals!"
And yes, I did spell it that way as an insult and mocking such BS. And, unfortunately, such BS is even worse in some areas, with people even going so far as mass-murdering migrant groups, there've been more than a few mass-shootings, and going to the border to shoot at civilians that haven't even crossed. Killing the people while they're STILL in mexico, from the US side of the border.
Here are some facts I'm sure the hate-filled bigots are going to hotly dispute, scream that I'm wrong, that I'm a filthy liberal, make personal insults about my appearance, etc, about. Go ahead and scream al you want. FACTS don't give a damn about your feelings!
1) The US gains billions in taxes from undocumented migrants every year. Like everyone else living here, undocumented migrants usually have JOBS. And they make purchases. Some even go on to start businesses and hire american citizens to work for them, bringing in even more money for our economy. Areas that have seen a major decrease in migrant populations also subsequently see a decrease in local revenue streams and a decrease in local taxes.
There is a REASON that the politicians in Florida absolutely PANICKED when migrants began leaving that state in droves, and then went to town halls to BEG the undocumented migrants to stay.
2) Undocumented migrants are an absolutely essential part of multiple industries. Industries that we absolutely are dependant on, but can't get a lot of american-born "white people" to work.
Yes I know that sounds racist towards white individuals but it's not meant to be. It's a simple fact. Without undocumented migrants, the fishing, forestry, lumber, construction, and farming industries, to name a few, would suffer immensely. And remember, if those industries suddenly have no one to work for them, then they tank. If they tank, guess what happens to the price of food and lumber in this nation? Prices that are already high due to global inflation rates?
3) The myth is spread among MANY hate-filled groups that "Undocumented migrants are all criminals and rapists!!!"
While it IS true that SOME undocumented migrants have been found to be such, and there is the OCCASIONAL headline blaring in the news of one or two that have committed such acts, there is no such thing as a 100% innocent population after all, the fact remains they are more apt to become the VICTIMS of crimes, not the perpetrators.
And before you start bringing up specific incidents.... shall I make a nice list of all the crimes that WHITE individuals have done in this nation? All the murders? All the rapes? And shall I go into specific details of the brutalities that American Citizens have done to undocumented women and little children? I can match incident with incident.
And yes, I CAN back up this information.
Debunking the Myth that more migrants means more crime. Empirical Studies done on crime rates vs migration rates.
First one is from Stanford University.
https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythical-tie-between-immigration-and-crime
Second is a research paper showing migration and crime in multiple nations.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167268123001713
Third - Pew Research Center Migration, views and Crime Rates.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-u-s-mexico-border-situation-and-the-governments-handling-of-the-issue/
Fourth - report from Mcgill University.
https://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/channels/news/does-immigration-really-increase-crime-347099
And last from ATT Law Firm Studies - Crimes committed by Undocumented migrants vs Crimes committed by American born Citizens. https://attlaw.com/criminal-noncitizen-issues-and-statistics/
And last. Crossing the US border without documentation is NOT, technically, a crime. Though, in some states, it is listed as a misdemeanor. And coming across and asking for asylum is 100% legal according to both US Constitutional law, and International Law.
Before screaming about criminals and everything else, how about learning some facts? As I stated to another person. Facts do NOT care about people's feelings.
https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/FINAL_criminalizing_undocumented_immigrants_issue_brief_PUBLIC_VERSION.pdf
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, again, crossing the border illegally is a felon, and a felony is a crime. You cite the ATT Law Firm which promotes itself as an immigration advocacy law firm. You also cite the ACLU which is also has pro illegal immigration policies. You also quote studies from far left, woke universities. These are not unbiased sources, these are not trustworthy sources. And, yes, you do sound racist against white people, especially those of German descent with 'der' and misspelling words to sounds like a native German speaking English poorly. It's offensive. I grew up in logging territory in the Northwest and there are plenty of American workers to do the job. That's true for all of the other fields you listed. Your comment is riddled with fallacies and inaccurate information. But that's what happens when one uses a woke lense to view the world.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
My information is 100% accurate and has nothing "woke" about it. Though I see you're showing your true MAGA colors m'dear. Hate and bigotry rather than human compassion. Brutality rather than gentility. Unsurprising given the amount of hatred you've shouted forth in multiple articles.
Btw, "Woke" means "Awake, aware of the situation around you", "aware of circumstances". If being "aware of a situation" is an evil thing, then do you go about with blinders on?
And no, this isn't "Far Left" either. This is, in fact, merely going by CONSTITUTIONAL Law. Or do you believe that the United States Constitution is "leftist" and "biased" as well?
Every single thing I've put is 100% accurate. Not my problem you refuse to accept them. And, btw, I happen to BE of German and Polish descent. Heh, so sorry boy-o, unless I'm being "racists against myself", you're simply offended because you can't refute a single fact. Not without deliberately citing bs from sites like Britebart, "Truth" social, "News"max, OAN, Telegraph, or cite individuals like Tucker Carlson.
And no, there are NOT "Plenty of americans to do the job". I guarentee that there are a lot more undocumented migrants in the logging industry than you are likely aware of. In fact, you've likely worked with multiple individuals who are undocumented migrants and yet were unaware of it.
There is absolutely no fallacy, or inaccurate information, anywhere in any statement I've made. You scream that it's "Woke" and that the information I've provided is "Leftist" because your hatred absolutely refuses to allow you to acknowledge any facts that doesn't fit the "these people are vermin and must die" mentality.
Sadly, the "Deze people are EVVVILLL!" shrieks are why so many undocumented migrants end up being the victims of brutality here in the USA, despite the fact they've fled their homelands to try to escape such brutality. Because people spread hate instead of compassion.
And, btw, I live in the north, too, up where the logging industry is a major part of the economy. And no, the studies are not from "Far left woke universities" either. I'm guessing you tried to look up info to refute it, and got angry you couldn't find any that didn't come from Alt-Right sites that are being run by the Heritage Foundation.
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Daniel Gray
Your information Bridget is bologna. nothing your sources claim can be validated or documented.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Every single source I provide is not only accurate, but it's easily validated and verified. I doubt you've even looked at a single site. You merely spew hatred and bigotry because it's all you have.
Absolutely nothing you have stated so far is verifiable. You do not even attempt to provide any information. I have provided actual research that has been done on a metadata process. You've provided nothing more than hate rhetoric that any 2 bit shock-jock with a mic and a chip on their shoulder can scream out. You parrot horse manure from individuals like Tucker Carlson, the pillow guy Lindell, and from hate-group areas like "Truth" Social, NewsMax, OAN, and Telegram.
These people come seeking help and a way to escape brutality, and individuals like yourself scream for them to be even more brutalized and abused. The catholic charity is doing the ACTUAL work that the Jesus of the bibles would do. In truth, he would look upon such hatred and cruelty with disgust.
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Daniel Gray
and yet again not one validation of your claims.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
ROFL I've showed multiple validations of my statements. Not MY problem you refuse to look at them. And yet, you've not proven a single one of your statements true. Every single source has been validated and are both accredited and credible.
And, btw, the ACLU isn't a political group. It works for any individual whose rights are being deliberately violated no matter what their beliefs are. Of course it's hard to convince a bigot of facts when their hatred refuses to acknowledge it.
I've proven MY claims with a large number of pieces of proof that you refuse to even look at. And every single one of them is both a-political AND is from sources that are neither left or right.
Though it's rather telling you are unable to deny where you get your, ahem "information" when called out on it.
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Daniel Gray
yet again even more lies from you. Not one thing you have claimed is validated and as for the ACLU not being a political group, you had better read their webpage as they ADMIT they are a political group. So now who is lying, you or them?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
First off kiddo, they do not "admit they are a political group". The ACLU states, clearly, that they fight for the rights of ALL groups, no matter their political affiliation, gender, religion, place of origin, skin color, etc. Where do they "admit they are a political group?"
Yet again you're stomping up and down and screaming "Liar, liar, liar!!" When you have not brought a single piece of actual, non-biased, information to the table to back your case.
All the information you get is crub from severely Alt-Right groups like 4-Chan, "Truth" social, "news" max, and so forth. Kiddo, you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you the tail. And when you're presented with ACTUAL hard facts, you scream "Nuh uh!" and stomp your feet like a 2 yr old.
You really need to start showing actual facts from sources that are not Alt-Right propaganda sites.
I have come with actual non-biased, non-political research, and the best you have is to wave your arms around and shout "Yer a LiAr!!!!"
Do you have "anything" at all that's not from Alt-Right groups? Or are you going to continue screaming "yur a LiAr!!!" And stomping your feet?
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Daniel Gray
Yea they do admit they are a political group Bridget, in fact Deborah Archer and Anthony D. Romero (the actual HEADS of the ACLU) BOTH have stated in public that they are a political group. Now who do we believe, you and your socialistic claptrap or the people who actually RUN the darn thing?
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Eric Laspe
“Undocumented migrant” is a euphemism for “illegal immigrant.” It’s rather ridiculous that even the word “immigrant” is somehow so painful to woke ears that it must be replaced with “migrant.” We’re talking about people who, by definition, are felons.
Do you have such a soft spot for all felons?
Why do you choose to insult your fellow Americans in defense of felons, diminishing the efforts of millions of legal immigrants in this country who waited through a years-long legal process to be here?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Eric Laspe. That's rather rich coming from a man who actively supports an individual who has been convicted of 34 felonies, among many other, even worse, crimes. Do you have a soft spot for all such individuals yourself?
And no, it's not a "euphemism for illegal immigrant" at all. It is what, in fact, they are. The fact you're screaming "woke" says quite a lot. And no, we are not talking about people who are felons. We are speaking of innocent women and children, and yes young men, too, who are fleeing brutal gangs and crushingly cruel governments to find work, and safety, here.
Of course, the idea of someone who isn't European White coming into our nation, I'm sure, is absolutely sickening to MAGAs such as yourself. Btw, "Woke" means "Awake, aware of one's surroundings and circumstances, and alert to changing conditions". Which means, by definition, you prefer to be asleep with your ears and eyes closed.
And why do you choose to insult your fellow Americans by supporting someone who actively calls for murders and worse? And, in the eyes of MAGA, unless the individual has skin as white as snow and blue eyes, they're not "legal" at all.
Let me guess, you think people crossing from Puerto Rico and coming without paperwork to the mainland USA, and people from Guam, are also "Illegals".
Fact is, undocumented migrants are not "diminishing the efforts of the ones who have the MONEY to go through the migrant process. And yes, I assure you, it's extremely expensive, and very difficult. I ought to know, my husband migrated here from Canada. And, btw, the vast majority of undocumented migrants are people who came here with LEGAL visas, and overstayed their visas. It's pretty common, actually.
Tell me, what is so sickening about calling the individuals what they are? Migrants from another country who don't currently have paperwork? Oh, and btw... Crossing without documentation and surrendering to authorities and asking for asylum is NOT a felony. In fact, it's 100% legal according to the US Constitution. It's only a felony IF the individual is arrested and sent back, only to cross again illegally. And only then IF the courts decide to charge it as such.
However, 9 times out of 10, if the individual has not committed any crimes, that is to say, they have not been stealing, they've not been vandalizing anything, they've not been doing anything that a lot of MAGAs seem to assume they do, though in truth undocumented migrants are more likely to be victims of crimes rather than the perpetrators, it's often that the individual will merely be given a misdemeanor.
However, the vast majority that come across are brought to centers where they are forced to wait, and sometimes sent back even without their paperwork being looked at.
Oh, btw, many American Citizens, people who were BORN here, have been rounded up and deported wrongfully from time to time, too. Esp. those that "Looked mexican". Where the ICE and other authorities refused to even look at their paperwork. It's a lot more common than people think.
There's also US soldiers whose only "crime" was that they were brought across as infants and didn't even know they were undocumented. They lived in the USA their entire lives, even entered the military and served. And yet the moment they came home, they were arrested and deported. And these are our military vets.
So why do you choose to insult our nation by spreading Hate?
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Daniel Gray
And this is rather rich Bridget when the cases have been voided under the SCOTUS immunity rule decision, but then again I wondered how long it would be before you tried to blame trump for this which is what you usually do when you are getting your whole opinion handed to you after being shredded with the facts and the truth
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Actually, no. Those cases have NOT, in fact, been voided since SCOTUS has tried to crown him a King and have said he is immune from all Laws and the US Constitution. Though I am unsurprised you would support an individual who is screaming for the nation to return to being brutalized by a king rather than be a nation with the freedom to choose, and freedom to vote.
And not at all. I'm not blaming him for anything other than his own behaviors and hatred. And no, my words are not opinions but fact. And you have yet to provide a single shred of any in your arguments, or a single fact to back up your claims. All you seem to have is hate rhetoric. Every statement I've made is easily verified in about 10 seconds by a simple google search. But I know for a fact you refuse to do such because it would create such severe cognitive dissonance in your head, that you would be unable to think clearly.
However, when an individual has joined a cult whole-heartedly, this is not surprising behavior.
But I hate to break it to you. The man is STILL a felon, and he's STILL got that conviction. None of which has been overturned by SCOTUS. You, apparently are misinformed of a great many things.
And again, I ask. Why do you choose to insult our nation, and insult the jesus you claim to worship, by spreading the word of hate?
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Daniel Gray
Actually YES THEY HAVE. I guess you didnt look at the order from the Court and why the NY courts have to go through and see which ones fall under this order. Not to mention that the DC case has been thrown out for lack of the ability to even prosecute.
But then again you always spit out BS and expect people to believe you and then get upset when shredded by the facts.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
ROFL Child, you are the one being shredded by facts. 1) They have NOT been voided by SCOTUS. In fact, the DA that brought the charges against the man has already scrubbed the wording out that SCOTUS objected to so that it was all strictly about things he did while NOT in office, and things he pulled that were NOT in the scope of the presidential duties.
IF you looked at the order, which I know you have not, it strictly said "Only for those things that were within the OFFICIAL DUTIES of the office."
And so it was a simple factor of simply scrubbing out the pieces that were done in a way that could be considered an "official duty" And, thus, leaving the charges intact.
ROFL You get pretty techy when you realize that the charges against him are STILL intact, are are the felonies, and yeah, btw, SCOTUS didn't void the Felonies against him either. Those were left intact so there's your little conspiracy crushed to dust. In fact, he faces sentencing this month.
How about poking your nose outside the Alt-Right echo chambers?
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Daniel Gray
Nice try but major fail. The DC cases have been tossed because Smith was not brought before the US Senate and approved as is REQUIRED by US law and the Constitution.
The NY cases have been put on hold till they can see if ANY of them would fall outside the immunity granted by SCOTUS. The Sexual case will be tossed out as it violates the 8th Amendment of excessive bail/fines.
And the Georgia Case has just had its two major charges tossed out as well.
And getting back to NY, according to NYS Code/law the paperwork has a 1 year statute on it so its well past the limitations. And Stormy's case was tossed out by a federal judge in California as Stormy could not provide even one iota of proof of her claim ever happening as well as Trump defaming her.
My Lord do you ever get tired of being proved wrong every time?
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David M Hines
How is this not a clear-cut case of the government interfering with people’s religious freedom? It’s not a commercial enterprise - they don’t charge for the food or shelter.
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Eric Laspe
They are aiding and abetting criminals, which is against the law.
Many folks here argue that Jesus would help these people, but you ignore Jesus’ instruction to obey the law as well. There are plenty of needy Americans who could be helped instead.
In general, I don’t understand the sentiment that anyone and everyone should be allowed to come across out borders and receive aid. Illegal immigrants are breaking the law by being here. These laws aren’t arbitrary. Many people forget that millions of people wait in line years for the opportunity to be admitted legally. It’s extremely unfair to all those people to allow illegal immigrants to jump the line.
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Anthoney Torrescano
This just show's. That one more politician, would rather spend tax payers money on foolish things. I bet if they were feeding and housing Canadians, there would no problems.
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Pamela Kay Waters
They don't need help
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Rev. Michelle Love
I'm confused. It's okay for the State of Texas to pay to forcefully sterilize immigrant women but not okay for a charity to feed and shelter them. The cost differential there is enormous and leads me to wonder who the real human smugglers are. Millions of women are kidnapped every year and forced into human trafficking. Knowing that abortion is now illegal in Texas, it make me wonder if these sterilizations are being done to reduce the costs associated with pregnancy in vulnerable women that may have been forced into being sex workers.
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Daniel Gray
the state of texas does not and has not forceably sterilize any illegal. you need to stop with these left wing fantasies as even they couldnt back this lie up with any proof.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, ABC, NBC and CBS would all beg to differ as these stories were all reported during Trump's presidency on the evening news. I am sure you remember stories about families being separated and kept in cages along the border when they started putting up portions of the wall. A lot of atrocities were happening on US soil because of his policies and some of them have not stopped.
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Daniel Gray
And all three of these have been shown to be made up stories. Even CNN and MSNBC is being sued right now for lying about this and they have tried to claim 1st Amendment but the judge has shut them down saying you cant claim 1st amendment when you know the story if clearly false.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, I would love to see where these networks retracted these stories. Would you mind posting a link to one of them? Thanks!
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Daniel Gray
Go ahead and look, you can find it. I mean Good Lord even MSNBC is being sued out of their pants for lying about this.
https://freebeacon.com/media/rachel-maddow-and-her-co-stars-made-verifiably-false-statements-about-a-doctor-they-called-the-uterus-collector-now-his-30-million-lawsuit-is-headed-for-trial/
https://nypost.com/2024/07/14/opinion/how-msnbc-smeared-a-doctor-in-its-endless-crusade-against-trump-and-may-pay-the-price-in-court/
https://www.foxnews.com/media/judge-says-maddow-msnbc-hosts-verifiably-false-about-doctor-suing-defamation?intcmp=fb_fnc&intcmp=fb_fnc
There ya go.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel,
A pending lawsuit is not proof of innocence.
p.s. Oophorectomies were performed, not hysterectomies. Oophorectomies are less expensive to do and easier to recover from. One could easily have their food or water drugged and wake up the next morning feeling a little groggy with unexpected uterine bleeding that can be explained away as an early period. The only way a person who is not completely in tune with their body would know that such a procedure has occurred is if they went to the hospital to get a pelvic ultrasound due to abnormal pelvic cramping or bleeding.
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Daniel Gray
seems the Judge does not agree with you on this as if there were not enough evidence to prove the doctor innocent the judge would not have let the case continue. And BOTH of these news groups are desperately trying to come to a compromise not to mention Maddow admitted she was wrong on her show about this.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel,
Are you in the habit of spreading false information? The New York Post reported on 11 July 2024 that Rachel Maddow was facing charges for sharing a letter from a whistle blower named Dawn Wooten who worked at the same facility as the so-called "Uterus Grabber", Dr. Mahendra Amin.
Dr. Amin admits to performing two hysterectomies while employed at the detention center. According to court documents pertaining to Amin v. NBC universal Media, LLC, No. 5:2021cv00056 - Document 209 (S.D. Ga. 2024), his claim was barred because "the challenged statements are true or substantially true and thus cannot be the basis for a defamation action."
Additionally, there is no evidence posted online corroborating your assertions that Maddow admitted to any wrong doing. If I were you, I would pray that she does not have access to this website because she could sue you for libel.
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Daniel Gray
and I can see you spreading fake info from a newspaper that if it didnt have a Mexican Billionaire bailing it out then it would have been bankrupt already, the same newspaper that has been involved in more lawsuits and lost them then most any other newspaper in the US. Need I remind you that a Kid named Sanmann wont a 350 MILLION dollar lawsuit against the Times for intentionally LYING about him in DC, or does that sort of destroy your impression of it being a valid paper?
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Daniel Todd Kamm
A charitable organization that does it's good work faithfully and according to the laws of it's particular state should not be impeded in it's mission.
I highly doubt this particular, and highly recognized organization is engaged in "human trafficking."
If trafficking is a concern we need look no further than Mr Trump's felony conviction for his business dealings and shenanigans associated with a particular porn star and escort. Or Texas' Criminal Justice System.
Hopefully: Texas for some years has made a lot of noise about leaving the union.
I say we split it into two states: Texas and Real Texas... and give Texas back to Mexico, where they can deal with the problem of suddenly becoming illegals in another country.
We can keep the Real Texans in the Union.
Please. tk
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Tammy S Gardner
Well, my children's father was an illegal immigrant. He came here wihout papers. He did however get his green card eventually and spent yers working here and paying taxes. Many things he could NOT get even with his green card. A lot of the claims on how much aid they get re false. This immigrant (my children's father who is now deceased) worked hard for many years. I am an American citizen by birth. All of his children are American citizens. Among these so called "criminals" by some he has left behind for descendants FOUR CNA's, ONE Carpenter, ONE member of the National Guard and ONE member of the United States Air Force! I can see how that is really bringing crime into our country. Yes it just has to be stopped by all means. In reality how many of us today are benefiting from the services provided to us by families that may at one time or another had a member who was once an Illegal immigrant. I do believe many people are grateful for the CNA's, the Carpenter, The National Guard and our US Air Force. The last time I was hospitalized I had a wonderful nurse who was taking care of me that was of Asian decent. I do not know if she came here legally or not. She was there when I needed her despite what anyone else may decide. Also does anyone but me realize that in the zeal to capture the illegals many times US citizens get caught up in the fray? As nobody bothers to check things out as to if they are American Citizens or not? I have been through it with my son. He (my son) is American Citizen by birth and I am half native American. Yet someone "suspected" he was n illegal (maybe because of his name) and others ran with it without taking time to even ask for his birth certificate or who his mother was. It is just so sad that at times that there are some people who cannot see anyone doing anything to help someone else for any reason. If we could only see what the future may bring I am sure many would sing a different song.
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Melaine Rae Thompson
MATTHEW 25:44-45
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’”
LUKE 3:10-11
“‘What should we do then?’ the crowd asked. John answered, ‘Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.’”
JAMES 2:14-17
“What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,’ but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.”
LUKE 6:27-28
“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.”
They are caring for human being, as they should. This is another reason for separation of church and state.
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Michael Holland
Of course most people here are self absorbed narcissist, what if you were fleeing this country due to a tyrant (sounds kinda familiar and could happen here by as early as next year) and you were fleeing for your life! Would you want other countries to feed us?
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Pamela Kay Waters
None of them will help us.
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Rev Ned
There seem to be a whole lotta Christofascists commenting on this one. My advice to them is “Go and sin no more!”
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Daniel Gray
take your own advice.
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Robert Gagnon
You can't let people starve. By the same token they shouldn't be here illegally to starve. feed them then let ICE do their job.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
ICE is already doing its job. But, they are BADLY under-funded, and under-staffed. Their budget has been cut multiple times by the GOP.
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Pamela Kay Waters
If ICE had their way they'd shoot them and save everyone the trouble.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
No, that is what many hate-filled extremists in our nation WANT them to do. They don't do so, not because they're stopped by any laws, but because they know the vast majority that are crossing are people desperately trying to escape violence and brutality.
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David Buck
In fact, a very large number of illegals are NOT fleeing violence, oppression or war, they are economic migrants - military age males - and they are nothing but queue jumpers. They are unwilling to apply for a visa in the proper form. Until the government finally gets control of the border, they have no way of separating the genuine refugees, who arguably cannot wait to go through proper channels, from the people simply looking for a better job (or looking for a better way to smuggle drugs and terrorism across the borders) who can and should wait and go through proper channels. In the meantime everybody needs to obey the law. If you do not agree with it, then argue for it to be changed, but we cannot simply allow anybody - charity or not - to simply ignore the law. I will admit to not being a particularly good Christian, but I am being logical and can see where this will lead if not stopped. As an outsider looking in, I cannot believe how idiotic the US government is being. Close the damned border. It's not rocket science.
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Russel A. Kester
Well said indeed, David.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Hate to burst your bubble David, and Russel, but the undocumented migrants coming to the USA, by in large, ARE, in fact, fleeing violence, oppression, and brutality. Often gang wars. And so what if SOME of them are military aged males? You have a hatred against individuals of that age group who happened to be male? Or is it that they compete against you for women in this nation and the women are rejecting you?
The Government has a solid control on the border already. People who've gone TO the border to "see it for themselves" Have found themselves disappointed because there's often no one there. Despite what political mouthpieces are screaming at you as you watch Tucker, OAN, and read "Truth" social, along with other things spreading hatred, we are not having an "invasion."
These are genuine refugees. Yes some are coming for better jobs, but they are taking jobs that no US citizen seems to want to take. Especially the younger generations. This includes the construction industry, where a full 20% of the construction industry are undocumented migrants. A full 44% of the farm workers in this nation are undocumented migrants.
In fact, when it comes down to it, nearly a full 20% of the workforce in our nation are undocumented migrants. And yet, workplaces are STILL screaming for people. Problem is, a lot of the jobs are ones that American citizens refuse to take because it's "beneath them".
The Border isn't "open" in any sense of the word. In fact, our border is one of the most secure in the world. However, there ARE areas where it's impossible to build walls due to the terrain. I'm guessing you failed geography and failed to notice that along a good portion of our lower border, there are MOUNTAINS and deep valleys where we cannot just "put up a wall".
As for drugs, the vast majority of the drugs moving INTO the united states are not coming in with undocumented migrants. The vast majority of drugs coming into the USA are coming through the ACTUAL border checkpoints via american citizens, NOT undocumented migrants. Yes, cartels are ALSO using underground tunnels that are tunneled UNDER the border walls. Tell me, how would YOU stop people from tunnelling under? Start lobbing missiles at Mexico?
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Daniel Gray
Ok Bridget if they were so concerned then why didnt they stop in the next country over? Oh wait, that country wont give them handouts like you want the US to do
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Michael Hunt
Maybe because those countries don't have the economic stability to do so thanks to the US's destabilization of central America...
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? Ok Name me the countries south of Ecuador that we supposedly messed with? And you do know that the European Countries were there far longer then the US ever was. And yet you still want to blame the US. How typical of you
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
First, the USA isn't "giving them hand-outs" nor do I "expect the USA to give hand-outs". Unlike hate-filled individuals like yourself, I believe in giving people in need a hand UP not a hand OUT. Big difference.
Second, you want to know what countries the USA messed with and DELIBERATELY destabilized? Ok.
Cuba is the first one. Before the USA stepped in, they actually HAD a stable economy, and were living fairly peaceful lives. But we deliberately destabilized their nation, killing off their leadership, because they refused to make alliances with us or provide us with cheap goods and services.
Then you have the areas you call "the banana republics". And you know why they're called that? Because the USA completely destabilized their nations for the Banana industry. You heard me right. We wanted an iron grip on the banana industry and , therefore, we killed off leaders, and armed insurrectionists to deliberately destabilize their economies, as well as imposed harsh sanctions on them. ALL because they didn't want to bow to the all-mighty US dollar.
Then there is Panama, remember the Canal? Yeah that was OUR doing. Then there's Haiti, Honduras, and Nicaragua. You want more? I've tons more.
Though I noticed you said "South of Ecuador". Heh, what, the fact that there are those nations NORTH of that region that we ALSO deliberately destabilized and threw into civil wars for our own economic gains don't matter? Because they do.
I've a huge list of other nations as well that the USA has effeed with.
And, btw, yes, there were European countries working with those nations before the USA came there, but they were not deliberately, violently, destabilizing those nations to please ultra-rich business owners. The USA did that, whether you want to acknowledge that fact is irrelevant. FACTS don't give a d**** about your feelings.
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Daniel Gray
yet again you are not telling the truth bridget. All you have to do is look at the links I posted about the free Vaterans apartments that the Veterans are being tossed out of when they are actually paying, and these are being given to illegals.. Or the link showing the Homeland Security and VA are cutting health care to Veterans to have that same VA health care being given to illegals. or hows about this free prepaid credit cards being given to the illegals when our own people cant even get something like this https://nypost.com/2024/02/05/news/migrants-prepaid-credit-cards-for-food-and-groceries-letters/
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/title-42-here-are-the-benefits-migrants-can-and-cannot-qualify-for/
And then you wonder why people rip you apart as much as they do another person who tells more lies then carter has liver spots.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel,
Why are you so angry? It feels like your soul is tortured and that you are taking out your wrath on everyone on this website. Is there anything you would like to discuss? We are all children of the same universe and I would love to understand your perspective because I fear that I am missing something based on the things you have been posting.
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Daniel Gray
Because I dont like people lying through their teeth and receiving their information from sources who have been proved liars more time then there are stars in the sky
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, Which sources would you deem credible? I try to vary my sources myself because I know that each channel may have a hidden agenda depending on who owns the station at the time. When I was still actually watching cable news I would spend two hours straight watching the news starting with the local news, then the ABC, NBC, and CBS evening news broadcasts. Now I switch between CNN and Aljazeera online news because it is interesting to compare what stories about the US are being covered overseas that are not being addressed stateside.
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Daniel Gray
Sources that have been checked and rechecked. Unlike the ones that Bridget tries to pawn off as being factual
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, So are you saying that Bridget is using Fox News as her source of information? They seem to be more opinion based than fact based when I used to watch the channel.
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Daniel Gray
And by using the left wing insult of Fox news, you have just shown how biased you actually are.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, For your information, I actually identify as being an Independent. With that being said, the only reason I used Fox News as an example is because a lot of their programming is opinion based. I'm not sure how old you are, but I grew up in an era where the news just presented the facts; the who, what, where, when, why, and how only. There were no opinions given because the agencies reporting them at the time were not biased and allowed us to make our own opinions. How I miss those days...
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Daniel Gray
And I never once have used a Fox News quote in this thread so one has to wonder why you even tried to bring it up.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Btw, Mexico HAS been rounding them up and shipping them further into Mexico on a regular basis. And many, many migrants have given up after being driven deeper into mexico multiple times, and they end up settling there instead of the USA.
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Daniel Gray
yea right, thats why they have over 50,000 sitting less then 3 miles from the border, so tell us bridget, if they are shipping them further south, then why are these camps still there?
https://www.npr.org/2024/06/24/g-s1-5716/migrants-asylum-jacumba-border-patrol
Facts and history prove that you dont know what you are talking about and never have.
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Paul Johnson
It shouldn't make any difference if you are a church are and individual the law should apply equally to all. Just because you have a church should not give the right to do what ever we want to do in the name of religion.
Religion is nothing but a tool used by the DEVIL to seperate people and call it a denomination. Never considering that they are not following the bible; your to love your neighbor and not find someway to seperate from each other and state that you are following GOD. Follow the word.
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Colleen McAllister
The Word says to feed and house the poor and hungry. This is simple persecution.
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Russel A. Kester
Persecution, Colleen? Really? They crossed our border illegally and you're saying we're persecuting them if we don't do for them what we're having difficulty doing for our own people? That's a strange idea of persecution.
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Colleen McAllister
It is persecution of the charity group, not the immigrants. To help these people is the right thing to do once they are here. Would Texas still be against the charity if it were a Poagan or satanic group? Or anything other than Christian?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Where in this article does it say that the people who are being helped entered illegally? The charity is located on a border town where people more than likely drove through easily. Would these people be more acceptable if they flew into the state? Or maybe take a cruise ship? There are plenty of Americans that are able to travel abroad freely that get caught in situations where their wallet is stolen and need the assistance of strangers to help them get by. What if the rest of the world followed this man's lead? I pray that you are never put into a situation where you are forced to humble yourself to the point that you needed to go to a charity for assistance only to be denied based on the country that you came from. The church has always been seen as a sanctuary and by Paxton trying to shut down the Annunciaton House, he is trying to deny these people refuge.
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Daniel Gray
If you come in for a visit and then return yes you are not an illegal, BUT IF you come in and then demand to be allowed to stay even after jumping the line, then no matter how you look at it, you are an illegal.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Would you happen to know where I can find this policy in the Code of Federal Regulations? If what you say is true, it should be able to be backed up in writing and I am sure that the charity in question would love to have this reference on hand in order to educate anyone that tries to come to them for assistance.
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Daniel Gray
it is
ollowing deportation, a foreign national would need to file Form I-212 Application for Permission to Reapply for Admission into the United States After Deportation or Removal. This lets you ask USCIS for permission to submit an application to re-enter the United States. (In other words, it's a multi-step process!)
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-february-2024-monthly-update
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, Thanks for the information. Would you happen to know the reference for people who have never been deported? Thanks in advance.
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Daniel Gray
Check with ICE
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel, Is that where you got your information from?
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Daniel Gray
Nope got it from federal law and from Ice. So whats your point?
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Rev. Michelle Love
The same federal law that you were unable to cite?
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Daniel Gray
so you want to ignore the links I gave above you because they dont fit your agenda?
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Paul Andrew Breda
Comment removed by user.
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Joshua Ervin
I pray that you find your way back to the lord! You’ll be judged for your actions here on earth. Nobody is suggesting that you brake the law, but to turn your back on the starting no matter where they come from is evil. There are no laws that state you can’t feed the hungry, you show me that statute and I’ll retract my comment, further more, it is never told in the Bible to abandon your faith simply because the media or the state tells you to! We are all God’s children and should love the neighbor.
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Russel A. Kester
The nonprofit is aiding and abetting criminals. Thus it's breaking the law. It is also following the guidance of the Pope. It's also the fault of our government for allowing so many illegals to cross our borders. However, I suspect that at the end of the day, the nonprofit is using the Christian faith as a cover for its efforts to intentionally violate our laws to further the political agenda of its leadership and volunteers. This is probably what Paxton is understanding as he and the state of Texas struggle with the problems caused by illegals in our country and in his state.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
I can't even begin to argue against this nonsense. I'm too old and don't have the patience anymore. Too bad the native Americans didn't have the good sense to kick out our forefathers.
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Kathryn Diane Taft
It doesn't matter what Jesus would do, he didn't live in America. Every issue we are faced with has the same answer....THE CONSTITUTION. The politicians are responsible for whatever human trafficking is going on and are responsible for handling this illegal immigration problem we have. The church is responsible for doing what churches do. Charity. When I stayed at a Catholic Community services shelter I was required to show a current, valid form of identification to receive food, shelter etc. so what's the issue? Illegal is illegal whether you worship God or Elmo and the Constitution clearly lists what is or isn't. Period. Texas; the new Hollywood. Same rich, entitled jerks thinking they get whatever they want and can influence any situation to go their way. Ha! And they all claim to be good Christians just like Bush and Bush Jr. did. This is AMERICA, can we stop acting like 13 yr old girls now? If not we're all going to hell, lol. Not.
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Rev. BH
Isn't Jesus/God everywhere? In everyone, in every country, eternally? I don't recall THE CONSTITUTION invalidating his teachings, or the ten commandments here in America.
What valid ID did Jesus require to feed the multitudes (John 6:1-14)? Hunger.
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Daniel Gray
again nice attempt to try and misquote the bible.
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ServantOfJudgement
Rev BH, no God is not in everything and everyone. He's not in the cartel members that skin their competition alive. He's not in those same cartel members that illegally entered this country. He's not in the Chinese militants that have entered illegally. He's not in the islamist terrorists that have entered illegally. When an venezuelan gang member rapes and murders our children, do you think God is in him?
We're all absolute and proper idiots for allowing our enemies to enter, stay and get fed and housed. Total global fools.
Israel/Rome did not make entering Israel illegal. Egypt did not forbid people from entertaining it's borders until the Palestinians became their neighbors.
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Rev. BH
SOJ, please read that which you reply too. As in "From the bible/book" (me - Aug 06, 2024 at 12:11, above) and my personal beliefs (me Aug 07, 2024 at 09:29 am, above.) Murders (shootings, guns) and rapes are inordinately caused by home grown Americans and way prior to the influx of "tatooed" immigrants. Worried about rapes of children? We have a US political party that wants impregnated children to carry to term and raise the rapist's baby. Receive no medical or child support. Stay with an abusive husband. We do agree, God is not in everyone. Not in greedy, corrupt mega-churches, the far right "Sharia" anti-woman party, the NRA death dealers, the bought and paid for Supreme Court, politicians on the take from corporations and foreign countries. Sad, hungry immigrants are the least of my fears.
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Lionheart
Is it a true story then, or did you just read about that in a book?
🦁❤️
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Rev. BH
From the bible/book: The Bible reveals that God can be both present to a person in a manifest manner ( Psalm 46:1; Isaiah 57:15) and present in every situation in all of creation at any given time ( Psalm 33:13-14 ). Omnipresence is God’s characteristic of being present to all ranges of both time and space.
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Lionheart
And your demonstrable evidence that your god is real is where?
Presumably you are aware that much of the Old Testament was written by human beings with no formal education and didn’t know where the sun went at night. Some of them make reference to people that we still don’t know really existed, like Moses, Abraham, Adam. and Eve, et al, just to name 4.
Do you believe everything you read with no empirical demonstrable evidence? If you do, please don’t read Harry Potter books, they are just as fictional as the book you read that you like to believe is true.
🦁❤️
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Rev. BH
Calm down, man. You mistake me for a bible thumping believer in Spirits in the Sky. Who said it was my god? I was quoting the bible not stating my beliefs. I am well aware both testaments were written and re-written by fallible humans, and approved or disapproved by human councils and synods with varying agendas. (Harry Potter however, had only one author.) What do you read?
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Lionheart
My apologies, Sir. Thank you for the correction. 🤗
🦁❤️
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Kathryn Diane Taft
The native Americans couldn't have kicked us out if they wanted to; we brought guns. I'm embarrassed to call myself an American, the entire country has turned into ignorant opinionated jerks and Texas is worse than California, shame.
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Rev'd Andrew
It's troubling to hear the offspring of colonizers cheering the genocide of indigenous Americans ("we brought guns") and then declaring themselves to be "embarrassed" that contemporary Americans would rather feed the hungry than shoot them.
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Daniel Gray
And believe me if we would have known how badly you Europeans would have messed up our country, you never would have made it off the boats.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
You're showing A LOT of hate here. But that's not surprising given all the hate you've shown in other articles.
1) They are not "Aiding and abetting criminals". It's actually NOT against the law to feed and house migrants. In fact, coming across the border undocumented is NOT actually a crime. Though in some states it is listed as a misdemeanor. People like you call them "illegals" and "vermin" to dehumanize them. Why? Because if you can view them as not even being human, it's easier to hate and want them dead.
2) The Pope would encourage them to HELP those who are poor, who are in need. To HELP those who are desperate and fleeing brutality. You know, the things the Jesus in your bibles TAUGHT his followers to do.
3) The government isn't just "letting people in". But you CAN thank the GOP for deliberately defunding the Border Patrol and cutting the amount of personnel, and equipment, they can have or patrols and tending to our border. Simply put, geographically speaking, there are areas that are absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to put "walls" up over. And in many other areas, there are groups that are saying FU to the walls we DO have and simply building more and more sophisticated tunnels beneath. And, btw, several million also came across between 2016 and 2020. Yes, between 2019 and 2021 there WAS a major dip in such travel, but hm.. . what happened in those years? Oh that's right... the GLOBAL PANDEMIC.
3) Undocumented migrants actually CONTRIBUTE billions to our economy every year by paying taxes, purchasing items in the united states, and work a lot of the jobs that ALMOST NO BORN AMERICAN is willing to do. Without Undocumented Migrants, Our fishing, construction, farming, logging, etc., industries would almost completely collapse. The USA would, literally, suffer a major economic downturn, and potential full crash, without migrants.
And finally 4) The myth that "Undocumented migrants bring nothing but crime." WRONG. In multiple studies done over several YEARS, it's been proven that undocumented migrants are more apt to be the VICTIMS of crimes done against them by US Citizens, than commit crimes against the nation.
First one is from Stanford University.
https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythical-tie-between-immigration-and-crime
Second is a research paper showing migration and crime in multiple nations.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167268123001713
Third - Pew Research Center Migration, views and Crime Rates.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-u-s-mexico-border-situation-and-the-governments-handling-of-the-issue/
Fourth - report from Mcgill University.
https://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/channels/news/does-immigration-really-increase-crime-347099
And last from ATT Law Firm Studies - Crimes committed by Undocumented migrants vs Crimes committed by American born Citizens. https://attlaw.com/criminal-noncitizen-issues-and-statistics/
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, first crossing the border without a visa is a felony. So your first item is wrong.
Second, the Pope is wrong to tell a sovereign nation what it's immigration policy should be. So your second item shows a misplaced authority in what the Pope has to say.
Third, illegal immigrants are using scare resources for housing the poor of our own nation. And these immigrants do not contribute as they may not legally work. They also strain our schools to educate them. And, they strain our social services. That addresses your third item 3b. (You listed 3 twice)
Fourth, the crimes committed by illegal immigrants in NYC and other places is documented and very disproportionate to their population size. Many are part of illegal gangs from other countries who were sent here specifically to establish a strong gang presence in the US. That addresses your forth point.
Finally, as to item 3a, which claims that Republicans took funding from ICE, according to Google's AI, "Yes, the government has provided money to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in recent years: 2024 budget The 2024 budget appropriations include over $9.5 billion for ICE. This is in addition to $25.9 billion requested by the administration in October 2023 for ICE and CBP. 2014–2023 The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) reprogrammed $1.8 billion from within its existing appropriations to ICE during this period, as well as providing $365 million in supplemental appropriations. This funding was often used to respond to increased migration at the southwest border." What the Republicans did not do was give Democrats additional funding to process illegal immigrants changing the status of this presence from undocumented to documented. The Democrats did not want more actual security to prevent illegal crossings.
Every nation must have sovereign borders and religious organizations don't get to circumvent the law using their faith as a cover. Illegal immigration is a felony and strains the economy in many ways. Illegal crossings are fraught with security risks. Illegal crossings must be stopped not simply processed.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Ok, first, you apparently didn't look at ANY of the information I put in. You just started hate-ranting.
1) No, it's not a felony. While some STATES list it as such, federally, crossing the border without papers is a misdemeanor at most, and according to the US Constitution, and International Law, as earlier stated, it's not a crime at all. How about looking at the URLs I actually posted.
https://www.rescue.org/article/it-legal-cross-us-border-seek-asylum#:~:text=Yes%2C%20seeking%20asylum%20is%20legal,seeking%20asylum%2C%E2%80%9D%20says%20Byrne.
They need to present themselves to port of entry once across and ask for assistance.
2) The Pope isn't telling anyone what to do in / with their countries. He is preaching compassion. Something you, apparently, believe to be evil.
3) The Crime thing. Hate to burst your bubble, but wrong again. Undocumented Migrants are disproportionately the victims of crimes, not the criminals. Are there are few among them? Sure. But that is a few individuals, NOT all undocumented migrants as a whole. That would be like saying white americans are all criminals because the vast majority of crimes in the USA are done by them. Obviously they are not, but that is precisely what you are stating.
4) The "scant resources" is a fallacy. The fact is, we have MORE than enough resources, and housing, to house, feed, and clothe, every man, woman, and child in the USA ten times over. However, rich Oligarchs deliberately prevent this. They allow abandoned houses to become neglected and collapse rather than allow a homeless individual, or a homeless family, to move in and care for the place. Businesses will send excess resources to dumps and landfills and have it burned rather than lower prices so poor people can afford it, and to prevent homeless individuals from getting anything at all.
For economies. Undocumented Migrants are actually a BOON to the economy, not a strain. Those nations that have a large number of migrants, documented or not, see a major upswing in their GDP and other positive indicators. Those that fight tooth and nail and chase them out start seeing a downturn. Undocumented Migrants pump BILLIONS into the economy with their taxes alone, and that's before they start making purchases, which, of course, adds even more to our economy. You don't have to believe me, you can look it up for yourself.
For "Sovereign Borders"? That didn't become a serious thing here in the USA until after our civil war. In fact, if you look at antiquity, people could pretty much cross freely from nation to nation without "papers" or "permission". Even travelling up from Mexico, or down from Canada, there was no real "Border" to worry about. Not until after the civil war where we began getting paranoid about our borders.
Interesting fact, Canada became a country BECAUSE of the USA's civil war. To avoid being annexed by the USA's soldiers, they appealed to England who aided them, militarily, to become their own nation.
Illegal crossings are risky, true, but it's not due to security, but rather the risk of traveling across the deserts the way they do. And then are treated with almost zero compassion when they get here. And, I hate to burst your bubble, but it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE to stop all undocumented migration to the USA, or to any other nation.
The walls do not work. You could have a solid wall, with no way in or out, and machine gun nests along it to stop anyone from getting near it, and people would just tunnel underneath. And, in fact, DO tunnel beneath.
Btw, what do you think of all the AMERICANS that have illegally crossed into, and are now living in, Mexico? Do you think that the Mexican government should round them all up, take their children from them, put them into "detention camps" in the deserts and have them sleep on concrete floors with plastic paper for "blankets"?
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Russel A. Kester
Elizabeth I did read the portion you highlighted which is run by an organization intended to instruct these migrants in how to actually lie to be considered as asylum seekers when they are not. They are not fleeing for their lives. So, yes, it is still a felony to cross the border illegally which is a federal crime. Requesting asylum as a designated location outside the US or as a port of entry is not. Big difference.
The UK and other European nations have done the numbers and illegal aliens so not help the economy. They are a net loss. The same is true here. GDP might go up because the goods and services provided to them as included, but those are tax dollars not newly created wealth.
If an American has crossed illegally into Mexico, then Mexico should deport them forthwith. Their probably wanted here for crimes.
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Daniel Gray
dont try to talk sense to her as if it does not fit her view, then its wrong. Notice she tries to use the Pope to benefit herself and her view but she also stated earlier that she was a Pagan, meaning that she does not believe anything the Pope would say in the first place. Neat trick to try and weasel words to fit her agenda isnt it?
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Russel A. Kester
Daniel, I've found a number of non-Christians who seem to want to quote the parts that suit their argument but reject it the rest of the time. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who's noticed that.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Ahhhhhh Russel, you never fail to show your true christian colors.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
You're right. Writing on the side of pure hatred. It's heartbreaking.
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Daniel Gray
Notice everything you say that does not fit Bridgets view is either a bigoted response or hatred. She just cannot allow you to be correct as that would destroy her world view.
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Russel A. Kester
Not hatred. Far from. Compassion must be balanced with reason and common sense. A nation does not survive without borders. Take swimmers for example, in lifeguard training one learns to actually disable the person drowning in order to save them. Otherwise the person drowning will actually drown both themselves and the lifeguard. If the US becomes as dangerous and lawless as the countries you claim these people are fleeing, then their flight was for nothing.
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Daniel Gray
Compassion yes, but demanding that we have to use our hard earned money that is meant for the support of our family, to care for people who refuse to stay and make their country better just because of some bigoted people? Absolutely not.
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Russel A. Kester
Elizabeth, nonsense. I wrote an assessment of the situation and what were the probable motivations of the nonprofit in question. That had nothing to do with my 'christian colors'. Your comment was merely another attempt at character assassination.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
RK while regressive, maga, gopper, anti-immigrants like to freely call ALL people entering this country unlawfully, technically entering without a visa or other permission is a civil penalty and subjects then to deportation. That same person caught re-entering is NOW an illegal immigrant.
Just because you and your ilk disapprove of people seeking the same thing you freely have doesn't give you a right to demean or, sadly as the GREAT ORANGE CHEETO authorized, to dehumanize them and separate children from family.
I know to people like you it's just desserts but it's also the kind a per-genocidal, authoritarian authorizes up until it then decides it needs to "cleanse" its nation so as not to be "replaced". Really your attitude towards people is really sad and pathetic, maybe pray more and preach less; A LOT LESS
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, you speak in large general terms and want to categorize anyone who thinks differently than you in the most negative way you can. Illegal entry into the US is a felony. Period. How interesting it is that you would be the one to speak of replacing the current population when I didn't. It reads more like a confession. As always, you lead with your feelings when you use the fallacy of appeal to emotion instead of actually assessing the issue of how illegal immigration impacts the country entered. And your last sentence was just your hopes that you might silence my voice. Keep hoping. Your comment seems so quick to judge others and their motivations and is filled with an almost tangible hatred of your fellow Americans. Not very patriotic, loving, or inclusive.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
I was wrong about the legal standing of unlawful entry into the US, according to 8 U.S.C. § 1325 unlawful entry into the US is indeed a felony offense. But it does raise an issue of Texas bussing immigrants to other cities. There was no CBP distinction made between those immigrants who made entry at a legal crossing and those that didn't. The CBP processed them all and released them to await processing (bussing). So while many of those immigrants entered illegally, it's likely some (many?) did not. And if only a handful were actually 'illegal' then the governor of texas could/should be charged under Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324(a) which include smuggling, domestic transporting, harboring, aiding and abetting, etc
Regarding your statements to Bridget, I see only your opinion on immigrants and their cost to and on society and in fact you paint with a very broad brush. Two days ago (in the Miami Herald) it was reported that "an estimated 10.9 million undocumented immigrants in the United States paid $96.7 billion to federal, state, and local governments in 2022...The states that had the most contributions from undocumented workers were California ($8.5 billion), Texas ($4.9 billion) and New York ($3.1 billion). Undocumented residents in Illinois and New Jersey contributed less than Florida, but still more than a billion dollars in each state". [Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com] Hardly sounds as dire as you make it sound. Why is that? Is there some ulterior motive at play on your part?
I mentioned 'replacement', as in "replacement theory" which is something that the far right, regressive, neo-nazi, maga goppers actually believe in and the reason they (you?) are so anti-immigrant. How my bringing it up reads to you as "...a confession..." is not only funny, but truly absurd. As for leading with my feelings, yup, we all do and that includes you. Except you try to hide yours behind statements that sound true but are really just your personal opinion unguided by facts (or guided by 'alternative facts'.)
And again, painting with your dramatic and broad brush you accuse me of "... an almost tangible hatred of your fellow Americans. Not very patriotic, loving, or inclusive." Pretty sure what YOU are feeling is hatred of your fellow (read, non-maga) americans.and you're deflecting by projecting it onto me. So yeah, I agree it, it's not "very patriotic, loving, or inclusive" of you.
And then there is your word twisting. I mentioned 'replacement' because it IS a huge consideration and talking point among the far right, regressive, gopper neo-nazis. Odd that I mention it and you try to assert that because I mentioned it that I must be in favor of it. That and your other arguments are just you blowing out hot air.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Correction: I mistyped 'illegally' when I meant 'legally'
"So while many of those immigrants entered illegally..."
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, thank you for checking and correcting your statement. It's impressive as not many here do that.
We should all take a tough stance because the current levels of crossings is not organic or sustainable. It is organized and even funded by those who are enemies of the US. Illegal human traffickers are encouraging it because they make billions in revenue. Other nations are helping because they know that a large influx of migrants with different values and cultures are destabilizing to the country entered. This is why compassion without a fuller understanding leads to our nation's destruction. This has happened to other nations in the past and we are not immune. There are those in our country who think our nation's destruction would be a good thing. I am not one of them.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
This is a first. There have been so many time the word "christian" and God have been claimed to try to justify acts of "christian" hate. It is funny to see the logic used against an act of human compassion to others by the same church for once. It only proves that there are way too many right fighters than those who think about people first.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
This is a first. There have been so many time the word "christian" and God have been claimed to try to justify acts of "christian" hate. It is funny to see the logic used against an act of human compassion to others by the same church for once. It only proves that there are way too many right fighters than those who think about people first.
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Joshua Ervin
Is it breaking the law to feed the hungry? Is it breaking the law to give shelter to the homeless? They aren’t doing it in secret. They are registering every one of them to the state! You show me a statue that states they are unequivocably, without any doubt breaking any laws, I’m not asking you to manipulate any statute or to embellish on existing laws. I’m simply asking you to provide a law that states they are committing an i’m not asking you to manipulate any statute or to embellish on existing laws. I’m simply asking you to provide a law that states they are committing a crime and I’ll retract my statement! Isn’t it evil to turn your back on starting women and children simply because they crossed a made up, imaginary line? Is it ever ok for anyone to tell us that we can’t help those in need? Nobody blames you for losing your way, perhaps you never knew the path before you! I pray one day you will find the path that leads to the lord.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
This is nothing more then Xenophobic/racist Texans lashing out at anybody who might help an immigrant.
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Russel A. Kester
Nonsense. This is a question of a country's sovereignty and border security.
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Pamela Kay Waters
OH MY GOD. REALLY?
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Eric Laspe
They are knowingly aiding criminals. That makes them criminals.
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David Webber
Really? This proves that The Texas Attorney General is not a church going person. I'm pagan and I believe that this Charity is doing a great job. Jesus, helped others. Why can't you?
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Pamela Kay Waters
WOW. What makes you think you're a Pagen?
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Rev. BH
David, you need not tell PKW "what makes you think you're a Pagen" (sp.) You can think or believe whatever you wish without her permission. But I'd love to know what she thinks she is.
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Russel A. Kester
BH, actually, asking someone what they think makes one a pagan is a legitimate question and totally appropriate for this site which is inclusive of all faiths. Why would David, or anyone else, believe they can be a legitimate pagan on today's society? Paganism in ancient times wasn't a personal belief, as I read in books on ancient Greece and Rome, but a societal one. Government officials performed the various rituals at public ceremonies. So it's a legitimate question if a person can even be a pagan in our society as no government officials are performing said ceremonies.
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Rev. BH
And what do you think you are, Russ? A legitimate question as you say.
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Russel A. Kester
I'm a minister of the ULC Monastery, same as you. What's your point?
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Rev. BH
No. not the same as me.
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Russel A. Kester
LOL. Nice play on the word 'same.' Let me rephrase, we are both ministers of the ULC Monastery which is all we need be to react to the articles presented and engage one another in discussions about them and religiously related topics. That is what I am in relation to your question. Unless you were sincerely asking about my religious beliefs in which case I totally misread your question. I've posted a number of times that I do read and believe the morals, values, and wisdom of the Christian faith.
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David Webber
Pamela dearie, I have studied paganism, Wiccan, etc for 24 years. I don't really have to answer to you. But I did.
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Russel A. Kester
David, that was a non-answer. And as a Pagan why would you be qualified to say what the Jesus of Christianity would or would not say or do? Since you've studied paganism for 24 years, you should surely be able to explain how one can be a pagan today and explain why it doesn't need to adhere to the ancient practices of Greece and Rome. This is the place to share how the wisdom beliefs of your faith help to shed light on the topic. What would Hecate do?
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Lionheart
The last time I looked at those illegally crossing the border 90% looked to be tattooed young men. Where were their aged parents, wives, and starving children?
🦁❤️
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Rev. BH
Look closer.
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Lionheart
Ohhhh yes. You’re right, I think I saw a few females. Darn it, they were hard to find. Why is that I wonder? Perhaps the ones that I looked at were coming from a country where 90% of the people were younger male 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Rev. BH
Enter "immigrants crossing over" in Google image search. Dads, moms, little kids. Hard to miss. Where were you looking? Or who were you listening to without verifying? Without a serious answer, this is something less than a discussion.
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Lionheart
Yes I did that, and I don’t see any “current” empirical data that distinguishes males versus females “illegally” crossing our border. When I see media clips of the hordes waiting at the border, or marching towards the US, I see the predominant groups contain males, what do you see?
The Department of Homeland Security used to provide very useful statistics on annual/monthly illegal immigration on their website. Under this current administration that information has become sadly missing. I wonder why that is? 🤔
🦁❤️
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Lionheart
I do recognize of course that DHS do have statistics, but 5 or 6 months out of date, and no information on males versus females. What statistics they do have is only of those that they actually caught.
🦁❤️
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Russel A. Kester
Lionheart, while we can have fun disagreeing about God's existence (He does, 😜), we are in agreement on the border issue of mostly young, military aged men crossing in disproportionate numbers.
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Lionheart
Thank you, Sir Russel. It’s nice that we agree on something.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the reality of Goblins. I’m convinced they are real. Even though I don’t have any evidence for them. I just feel the Holy Goblin spirit in my heart. 🤭
Have a good day my friend. 🤗
🦁❤️
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Rev. Michelle Love
Did you know that approximately 64% of soldiers who enlist in the military have at least one tattoo? Does that make them any less eligible for assistance? Keep in mind that there are plenty of young men that come to this country to join the military because it is a path to gaining US citizenship. And before you ask me how I know this, I used to work in Air Force Recruiting.
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Daniel Gray
Not as smart as you think you are. for Tats, you will keep AA tats below the neckline and above the elbows. And that is part of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice so it does not matter what you say or think, you violate this and your busted and can lose a stripe or be banned from enlisting again
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Paul Andrew Breda
As a life-long, church-going Protestant, most of the comments here really make me proud to be ordained in a church that does not make a claim to be CHRISTIAN. It's why I stand by my ULC ordination as an equal to any divinity scholar or denominationally-ordained cleric. What people claim as part of their Christian faith is nothing less than sickening.
I refuse to surrender the term "Christian" to the bigotted, hateful masses who are well-represented here. At the same time, I now prefer the term Follower - I may not always meet the standard set by the Gospel, but I sure as hell know what love is, and who is my neighbor is, and have at least a half-ounce of compassion for people who simply want a better life for themselves and their families.
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James Mitchell Chandler
Thank you. I agree with you 100 percent.
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Russel A. Kester
Paul, having "at least a half-ounce of compassion for people who simply want a better life for themselves and their families" neglects having compassion on we who already live here and how illegal aliens impact our quality of life. Their presence costs money as NYC and Chicago residents know now only too well. These residents have been very vociferous in their objections to the presence of illegals in their communities and the negative impact of it on them. Do you have no compassion for poor Americans in those cities?
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Paul Andrew Breda
Russell, I would be interested to know your direct experience with recent immigrants. Do you know any? And your information from Fox News does not count. 78% of Americans have had NO direct exposure to immigrants, yet somehow they have apparently have some dramatic impact on their "quality of life."
Are you aware that President Trump identified migrants as "essential workers" during the pandemic?
I work with NYC schools every day. Every single one is dealing with this issue - new students who don't speak English and are much older than their level of education would indicate. Yet, NOT ONCE have I heard of "very vociferous objections to the presence of illegals in their communities and the negative impact of it on them." Why? Because they are professionals with that half-ounce of compassion.
I have tutored recent immigrants, whom you would likely assume were "illegal" when in fact they are asylum seekers with dates to have their case heard before a judge (a distinction of no consequence to Fox News viewers). I also volunteer for a refugee resetllement organization. In my DIRECT experience, these are hard working people seeking a better life, free from violence, for themselves and their families. Kinda like the rest of us, no? This makes them as "American" as you or me.
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Russel A. Kester
Paul, your comment clearly shows that you have a vested interest in the presence of illegal aliens as you tutor them and you work for a 'refugee' resettlement organization. And you work in a very far left work place with skewed values. In short, you're too close to the trees to see the forrest. However, you're questioning if I know any illegal aliens is a deflection from the fact that their presence is felonious. It's another appeal to emotion, but not an argument.
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Michael Fitchett
Seems like an easy solution. Feed the hungry for thats what Jesus would do. Law and order is important, also, and these people have broken the law and after feeding them return them to the authorities.
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John P Maher
YES ITS AGAINST MANS LAW and THATS WHAT WE LIVE BY, WANT TO HELP GIVE THEM A RIDE BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY DO NOT ENTICE MORE CHAOS, YEAH WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS and 90 % of OUR FOREFATHERS DID IT LEGALLY !
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Clay Serenbetz
Our forefathers immigrated legally because the laws were more welcoming. Many Americans hated Europeans who arrived here until Congress slammed the door during the 20th Century because immigrants were no longer primarily of European descent.
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Russel A. Kester
Clay, that narrative isn't true.
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Clay Serenbetz
What is true to you?
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Russel A. Kester
I agree, for the greater part, with your first two statements 1) the vast majority of our forefathers immigrated legally, and 2) many of the Americans of the time had issues with the newly arriving immigrants as they were from different European countries and cultures than those already here (by and large). But I disagree with your last statement that immigration was reduced because of the race of immigrants seeking citizenship. Immigrants from around the world were still applying and if race had been an issue there were other, neferious ways that could have happened. After a large influx of immigrants a nation needs to close its borders until those who already arrived have assimilated. It's not an easy thing for anyone.
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Clay Serenbetz
Jewish immigrants were shunned in the 1930s and 1940s and sent back to their home countries (e.g. Germany) to get killed. It was racist, cruel and shockingly nefarious. So, those in need were turned away at our borders, not because they were overcrowding, but merely because of their undesirable race/ancestry. So, I disagree with your analysis.
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Kevin Joseph Kervick
Yes, this is a crime. These "charities" get a lot of money to help migrants skirt laws. These groups are connected to globalist oligarchs. Traditional Catholics recognize the threat to the Americal community from unbalanced migration that disrupts culture and creates a financial burden on others.
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Rev. BH
What charity groups are connected to "global oligarchs"? Can you list a couple?
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Farajallah Michael Yazbek
As a Texas resident, I have to agree with Ken Paxton. These people know where the food and shelter is. This operation is run by people who are not in agreement with the existing US Code, which prohibits the aiding and abetting of criminal activity, which is what housing these people is. Giving them food is not a crime. However, lodging them is. Texas is overrun with these border crossing illegals, and they're coming with the aid of the major crime cartels. They are forced into slavery, including sex slavery, prostitution and drug and weapons smuggling until their debts to the coyotes (people who get them here) are paid off. We see this every day. The way to rid an area of stray wildlife is to take away the food source. The way to make criminal activity abate is to take away the incentive to violate in that particular area. It's a problem that is being exacerbated by the charity's refusal to inform US Homeland Security Border Enforcement of these people being present that is causing this whole problem. They're part of the problem until they comply with existing laws and let the US know who is actually coming into the country. The media isn't telling the whole truth about this particular charity.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Exactly. It's the church's will to take care of everyone. But it has to stop. They need to focus on our own. Why can't they just shut up leave the immigrants alone and not show them that they will be taken care of. Help Americans!!!!!!!!
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Russel A. Kester
Farajallah, well written and also very informative. Thank you. Your living in Texas gives you much needed insight.
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Walter J. Holbrook
Since the pour of Trumps attitude toward immigrants has shown the true poison of its nature. There are those who claim to be Godly. Have shown their poisoners side for orphans, widows, and even those being oppressed. But this is what "Make America Great Again, (MAGA) is. How do you preach love and tolerance. But also spit hatred.
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Walter J. Holbrook
Since the pour of Trumps attitude toward immigrants has shown the true poison of its nature. There are those who claim to be Godly. Have shown their poisoners side for orphans, widows, and even those being oppressed. But this is what "Make America Great Again, (MAGA) is. How do you preach love and tolerance. But also spit hatred.
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Daniel Gray
ok saying it five times does not make it any less a lie.
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Dorothy Hawkins
If being a Christian means following in the footsteps of Jesus, then how can the government step on the necks of religious people for following what their faith dictates?
That's imposing the state upon the faithful's "strongly held religious beliefs", and we all know that there's supposed to be a wall between the two.
In my personal opinion, those who advocate for allowing the state to dictate to a religious organization cannot actually call themselves "Christian" in any meaningful sense of the word, since actual Christians are led by their faith in Jesus Christ.
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Daniel C. Arendt
Interesting Pope Francis lives in a walled Vatican City, long ago originally so walled to keep out Muslims due to Papal concerns over what some Muslims might have had in mind simply wandering in... . Apparently, there is room in Catholic faith for questioning the motives of someone just showing up at your door; btw, does the walled city have any other protocols or barriers for just waltzing into it or approaching the very vicar of Christ Himself? Maybe one need not be an agent of darkness to suggest charities at least keep records of who they help; many faith-based pantries and things here in Reno, and all track who they are helping whether USA citizens or not, without Court or civil rights protests.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Texas and other border states can hardly complain, unless the complaint is that thanks to decades , indeed centuries, of our federal government's meddling and disrupting the going's-on in Meso and South America the meddling is coming home to roost... again and again.
(Gee, thanks Mr. Monroe, and later Mr Nixon, Mr. Reagan, Mr. North and others.)
Instability that threatens the average person's ability to eat, have clothes on their backs, roofs over their heads and basic safety not to mention hope for a safe and secure future for themselves and their children etc al is nothing new.
I hear the Euros did it too...
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Patti Anne Lisenbee
Funny, out of all the comments left here, I haven't seen this:
Leviticus 19:33-34 “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”
does NOT say you have to be "legal" only to be the stranger living with you. It mean ANY person. If you truly are a Christian, THIS should be one of your beliefs. Otherwise you are not one.
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Russel A. Kester
Patti, that verse must be taken into the context of the times. Traveling was dangerous and so hospitality was very important. But that doesn't mean they were to allow 15 million "stranger sojourns" to settle in Israel. No, they were sojourns and needed to keep moving.
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Clay Serenbetz
The whole Bible should be taken in the context of the times. Times have changed and the Bible is as useful today, as its law instructing women how to manage their menstrual periods. In other words. The Bible has become outdated and, at times, dangerous.
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Russel A. Kester
Clay, I disagree. People have not changed over the last 3,000 years. We still have the same joys, fears, frailties, sins, strengths, as well as altruistic sentiments. These human characteristics and others are embedded in the stories told and the Bible's wisdom literature. One can find within its pages inspiration for the day or solace when in despair. It's not the Bible that's the issue, it's how some use and others abuse it.
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Clay Serenbetz
I didn't say that people's characteristics changed. Instead, I said times have changed, particularly scientific knowledge has made incredible strides.
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Kenneth Kling
The groups acting in the "Christian" manner knows all to well what God's directive is concerning breaking laws. The people crossing the border, pretending to be Christian, are also breaking God's directive. A great many of the people crossing the border are not doing so because they are being oppressed by their home government. Just take one look at them while they are crossing, and you can see what I mean. I am mused by all the folks here who know "what Jesus would do" in these circumstances ...... of course they don't know and are simply preaching a false doctrine because no one really knows what Jesus might do ....... I know one thing, He would not break the laws of the land for there is no evidence anywhere that demonstrates otherwise .......
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Russel A. Kester
AMEN
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Pamela Kay Waters
Well said
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Russell J. Gee
I keep hearing about how the Catholic Church is to take in and help feed the poor. I agree wholeheartedly and the Pope is the first one to chime in on that note. On the other hand, I have yet to hear him preach to the migrants storming the border to not covet. I strongly remember one of the 10 commandments be 'Thou shalt Not Covet".
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Thomas P. Davis
All that he is doing is boosting his denominations numbers since they are lagging behind. It just so happens that the majority of those immigrants are Catholic. The other reason we allow them in is to pay into social security since our birthrate won't support Social Security for us baby boomers.
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Sandalio Jusino
Remember America is not a Christian country, it's ok to be gay, and to have an abortion , but is not ok to help the needy, that's how corrupted this country is. Criminals have more rights than innocent people.
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Clay Serenbetz
Criminals have rights under the Constitution, if you don't like it, then I suggest that you might enjoy living in Russia or North Korea. Are you suggesting all homosexual men and women are criminals? If so, that is slander. The Bible says nothing about abortion or IVF, probably because science had not advanced far enough for the feasibility thereof. In my opinion, an abortion to save the life of a mother is Christian. If a 10 year old is raped and we let her go to term with a child if incest, then it's unlikely either would survive. In my.opinion, it's not Christian to outlaw abortion under these circumstances. Are you sure that Christ would support your opinions?
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Pamela Kay Waters
We have our own needy people. Do you have any respect for our veterans that are treated like crap. That gave you the right to post your crap. Go to a veteran's hospital and see how they are treated. Maybe it will open up the peoples eyes that post on here . And you thing the immigrants have it so bad. Wake up everyone on this blog, because so many of you believe in what the media shows.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Wrong David Buck. The vast majority of them are people fleeing violence, oppression, and war. You're letting political hate-rhetoric color your view of them. And the government has control over the border. However, certain individuals trying to get back INTO the government have been deliberately ordering their followers to hamstring every single effort to put in more stringent controls, as well as provide Border Patrol with more manpower and updated equipment. Why? To try to get individuals like yourself torqued off so you'll vote for them.
Two, MOST Illegal drugs, such as fentanyl, end up coming across at legal checkpoints. Now, I'm not saying all of it does. After all, are you aware of how MANY tunnels have been located under the walls and barriers we have? The largest one ever found was found in 2019. Hm, who was in charge of the government in 2019 when that thing was dug under our walls?
And the vast majority of illegal drugs coming across are being brought in by US CITIZENS not undocumented migrants. You can hotly deny it all you want, but I dare you to look it up from unbiased sources, rather than looking only on very-far-right groups. For example, the USA's own Drug Enforcement sites. Or any actual, non-partisan, site. For example, this one.
https://www.cato.org/blog/us-citizens-were-89-convicted-fentanyl-traffickers-2022
And this one.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-august-2023-monthly-update
Though, in truth, I highly doubt you'll actually look at either one of these, since they will go completely against every single bias you have against undocumented migrants, you'll give me some britebart, or Tucker-Carlson-esque answer about how I'm wrong and how migration will destroy the nation, etc.
Now, as for "terrorism in the USA". The fact is, american citizens are more likely to commit terroristic acts in the United States. This has been borne out time and again via multiple mass-shootings, the brutal attempted murder of a presidential candidate, btw, the individual who attempted the murder was, weirdly enough, an individual who was also a fierce supporter of that candidate's party and a registered member of that party, the violent attack on our nation's capital, etc.
And yes I'm WELL aware you're going to mention the 2020 riots. As for those riots, the majority of the protestors were peaceful. However, that being stated, there were ALSO anarchists who came in from outside the normal protests who used the protests as an excuse to cause mayhem. Like the blonde chick who threw a molotov into a cop car and did it because it was "cool".
Or the teens that were arrested looting and they'd admitted they'd driven over there to riot because "It looked fun". THEIR words, not mine. you can look it up.
But the fact is, they were ALL US citizens And all of the ones who started fires? Yeah, terrorists. Citizens or not, ANYONE who does mass-shootings like that, or deliberately riots in a way which victimizes civilians, are terrorists. Period. Up to, and including, the Charlottesville rioters who screamed Nazi slogans, and the ones who attacked our nation's capital screaming to hang the, then, VP Pence.
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Clay Serenbetz
I thought that Trump "hamstrung" a solution when he singlehandedly killed a bipartisan bill in the Republican controlled House to solve the problem. The bill that Trump killed satisfied a wish list of Conservative demands. It seems that Trump is causing problems at the border.
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Russel A. Kester
Clay, that bill was a Trojan horse.
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Clay Serenbetz
That's an easy, unsupported excuse and completely unfounded.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Russel, that bill was not a "Trojan horse". He deliberately ordered his MAGA followers to kill the bill because he wanted to use migration as the new "boogeyman" to whip up even MORE hate and brutality against undocumented migrants. The more they are filled with hate and thoughts of violence, the more they are likely to vote for him and he's counting on that.
That bill was badly needed by our Border Patrol agents as well. One of Trump's 2024 plans according to Project 2024 / Agenda 47 as they renamed it now, is to completely erase the department that runs our Border Patrol and put them strictly under the military's jurisdiction instead. And then completely restructure the military so that the old chain of command was completely destroyed. I.e. either he gives the orders, or they were to sit and do nothing until he said something. Hamstringing our military as well as destroying our border even more.
He also intends to round up, not only undocumented migrants, but US CITIZENS that "look like migrants" and put them into "detention camps".. i.e. death camps. Or have you forgotten the thousands of innocent infants and young kids that disappeared from those camps UNDER HIS WATCH, only to find some of them in the clutches of human traffickers who purchased them like cattle from those camps. And several kids were found in American foster homes with claims that "They couldn't find the parents" only to learn the kids were ripped out of the arms of their parents and sold off to American adoption agencies here in the USA. Yes, SOLD, for a profit.
Fortunately, many were recovered and were returned to their home countries, back to their REAL families. But there's still thousands unaccounted for, because of those camps.
I could go on to the crimes that happened in those camps, but I'll leave it here.
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Daniel Gray
BULL Bridget. It allowed over 1.8 MILLION people to enter the country each year and thats over the 10 million that try to come over illegally. But then you are so brainwashed by the left you cant actually do something strange to you and thats READ the bill before commenting on it.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Hate to break it to you kiddo, but you're spewing nothing but hate and BS rhetoric spewed by the alt-right shock jocks. You scream "Yer BrainWashedddd!" because you have no actual facts, or proof of your facts, to back up anything. While everything I have stated is 100% true, and I've shown proof to back up my statements. Proof, I might add, you absolutely refuse to look at because it shatters every single thing you've stated.
Now, there are about 10 million undocumented migrants currently living in the USA, this is true. That is about 3% of the total US population. Hardly a drop in the bucket as far as our population is concerned. Though not surprised you'd be angry and hate-filled toward such a tiny minority group. They make excellent targets for hate-mongering.
The vast majority of those who are here undocumented, are those who came, originally, legally using vias. However, rather than leaving when their visas expired, they remained here. Then there are the children who were brought here under the age of 10 by their parents and grew up here undocumented. Known as DREAMERs, they may be undocumented migrants, however, they often do not know this until well into their adulthood. And, as I stated earlier, many of them enter the military, and they pay billions in US taxes every year. And again, it takes less than 3 minutes to google this. However, I know full well you will not. Reading my reply, you'll go on another hate-filled rant against them, then start insulting me claiming I'm ignorant, brainwashed, or whatever.
And yes I did actually read the bill, but did YOU read it? I doubt it. Oh, btw, thanks to negotiations by VP Kamala, our future president, undocumented migrant crossings have been going down quite heavily. Why? Because Mexico is now more heavily enforcing its borders. They're also catching undocumented migrants and shipping them deeper into mexico, or down south to their southern border. In essence, moving them so far away that coming north becomes harder and harder.
The bill gives the president the ability to shut down all border crossings. No one in, no one out. Though that does have an achilleas heel because that also means goods and services we rely on that come up from Mexico, and down from Canada, also cannot come into our nation. And things you likely enjoy will not be as available.
And no, it doesn't "Allow over 1.8 million to enter every year illegally." Contacts and "allowing to cross" are two different things. You may want to actually read the entire thing. Not cherry pick.
It expanded the powers of Homeland Security to help with immigration, it also provided more funding to the US border patrol, as well as an upgrade in their equipment, and the ability to hire and retain more personnel. It allowed for multiple reinforcement and repair actions on our current existing border wall, as well as areas of the infrastructure that, due to age, is starting to wear down and be damaged.
It was, in fact, the toughest border bill done in over 50 years. Of course, the GOP that supported it suddenly rejected it because they didn't want to "give a win" to their opponents. And they wanted to USE fear-mongering about migrants as their kudgel for campaigning as this is an election year.
Before the current administration, the previous administration, circa 2016 - 2020, had the chance to do something about it as well, but, because they wanted it as their "boogeyman", they did nothing. Migration did go down during the worst of the covid outbreak, but that is because people were too afraid to travel for fear of getting sick and dying of disease.
Oh, btw, here is my proof that border crossings are dropping. BUT I know you won't look at it. Fortunately, OTHERS who read these postings likely WILL look at it and see you for what you really are in doing so.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/nationwide-encounters
And here is more information, I dare you to read it. But again, I doubt you will do so.
https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/emergency_national_security_supplemental_bill_text.pdf
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Daniel Gray
hate to bust your lying bubble but am going to do it anyway. The House AND the US Senate showed clearly that this bill would have done nothing and actually would have increased the illegals and this is over the 1.8 million the bill allowed in each year, heck even Biden and Harris admitted as such! So now I guess they are liars because you say so?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
LOL Wrong again! You've burst no one's "bubbles".
The House and Senate were going to vote on this bill AND pass it. You see, the GOP knew it would give Biden a win, and Trump was demanding they shut it down. So not only did they not vote for it, but the GOP co-authors even voted against it because they didn't want to go against their party.
And no it would not have "Increased the number of undocumented migrants" the slightest. In fact, it was going to be the strictest border bill in over 50 years. When Harris gets in, her first act in an executive order, will be to sign the bill into law.
But, of course, I know for a fact that was a bogus claim made by "news" max, and it was picked up by Telegram and "truth" social and fox (faux) "news". This has already been thoroughly debunked. Nice try though.
I'm guessing you didn't even bother reading it. But then again, you never do. As earlier stated, all you'll do is stomp your feet, shriek "Yer a LiaR!!" And plug your years and go "La, la, la I can't hear ya! I ain' no dummy!" LOL
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Daniel Gray
well I guess then according to you CNN/MSNBC/Washington Journal/Newsweek/NY Times/LA Times/USA Today/Washington Post are all wrong because YOU say so?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
First, neither Biden nor Kamala said "it would increase the crossings by billions". And none of those papers said it would either. Though CNN stated that, that was one of the reasonings that the GOP gave for it. How about fact-checking your statements.
And second, the "1.8 million allowed in"? Sorry kid, but that's not true. There are 1.8 million CONTACTS per year that does not mean they're just "allowed in". Many are deported if over here illegally, but many more are here LEGALLY after getting their paperwork to go to court to fight for full Asylum status. As they have their paperwork they have their documents and as such, are DOCUMENTED migrants, even if they did cross without such documentation.
And THIRD, the border bill, which btw Kamala swore to sign, would ensure no individual who is here undocumented would be able to stay any longer than six months because the court system would be streamlined.
How about checking your facts before you make such claims?
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Daniel Gray
Really? Then I guess you are ignoring the campaign ads and the WH Speaker and the bill itself.
Tell ya what bridgy, hows about you do something very foreign to you. Hows about you actually READ the bill https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2/text and read where it does say they will hire more border agents, but then keep reading where it also mentions illegals coming in at over 10,000 people a day. That comes to 3,600,000 a freaking year for the agents to deal with and ICE estimates on the low side of over 10 MILLION a year illegals crossing the border https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-february-2024-monthly-update
So hows about you taking your own advice and making sure you are not lying again before posting anything as you have been destroyed for yet another umteenth time so you making up your myths isnt helping you as who do we believe the bill and ICE or your made up BS?
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Pamela Kay Waters
They live there they stay. Do you REALLY think if the tables were turned, they'd let us cross their borders??
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
As a matter of fact, I DO think they would, and I'll tell you why. Unlike the USA, which has slowly become more and more isolationist and xenophobic, with many talking heads spewing hate and cruelty, they've always had a far more relaxed and tolerant behavior towards undocumented migrants.
In fact, American citizens DO cross into Mexico, illegally, on a regular basis and try to live there. Yes, some ARE deported back to the USA, but that is actually pretty rare. Most are, by and large, ignored. There are hundreds of thousands of American Citizens living in Mexico alone as ILLEGALS. And yeah they are American Citizens, born and raised in the USA. But, in Mexico, they are ILLEGALS.
Tell me, Pamela, would you like our American citizenry to be treated in Mexico the way we treat their citizens? That is, if they go down there undocumented, their children are ripped out of their arms and sold to adoption agencies while they are put into prisons? Because yes, that is what happens to many.
Or would you rather have what happens to others? That is to say, our fellow American citizens, despite being illegally migrating there, are treated with human decency and given the chance at a new life?
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Pamela Kay Waters
Well we get involved in EVERY Countries business, I think it's time for us to keep our money weapons and mostly our veterans, and mind our own business. The immigrants know we well welcome them. So stop. America is and is making enemies of other countries by getting involved. So what do we do with our people in need NOW.
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Clay Serenbetz
If the U.S. didn't act as a protector of the free world, then I would hate to see the World since the end of WWII. In my view, the prosperity which we all enjoy would not exist, making us all worse off in terms of our prosperity, our security and our happiness.
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Pamela Kay Waters
We have enough of our own violence in this country. Gangs Terrorists Single Sick People that shoot up schools. We don't needany more Terrorists or The Mexican gang that is very bad. You people are all in to Saving them all. Our country is over populated as it is. Weneed to fix our problems, not add more to it.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Hate to break your bubble, but one, our nation is not overpopulated. In fact, if we were to compact the ENTIRE population of the USA into high rise buildings, and not even huge ones, so that we were all living in buildings like the ones in New York, then all the people in the USA combined could fit into the state of Texas by itself. The USA is NOT "over-populated" that's just a moronic trope.
And no, there are not "terrorist gangs shooting up schools" here in this nation. The ones shooting the schools up are WHITE MALE domestic terrorists that were born and raised in the United States.
And hate to burst your bubble, but migrants, especially the undocumented ones, are more likely to be the victims of brutal crimes than to be committing those crimes. Though I can see your hatred and prejudice far outstrips your pretended religious views. Since even the Jesus of the new testament calls for people to care for the traveler and to be compassionate. And, btw, the "Mexican Gang problem? It's more than likely to be in their home nations, not here in the USA, save for a few cities along the border. And having migrants, documented or not, actually HELPS our nation. It's hate and prejudice that is causing the problems.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Wrong. There are terrorists coming through because it's a prime opportunity for them. Do you know this part? You want them to come it and hit a big city? Sounds like you don't care what happens to this country and who is all coming in. They need to blow up the tunnels.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
What's wrong? Hm? Sorry but no. "Terrorists" are not "coming through because it's a prime opportunity for them."
Do you know who's acting in a terroristic manner in this nation and actually committing terroristic activities? US CITIZENS. More to the point, mostly WHITE MEN.
That attack on the capital on Jan. 6th? That wasn't migrants, that was mostly WHITE MEN.
The mass-shootings? Save for a few outliers, those have been MALE and WHITE.
The bomb threats and domestic bombings here in the USA? Yep, same thing.
People deliberately ramming their cars into flea markets and through parades? I think you're getting the idea.
Hate to tell ya this, but the VAST majority of migrants, documented and not, are PEACEFUL.
Now, are there those who are criminals? Of course. But those are few and far between and is not the majority of the group.
What next, going to try to claim the stories about people from Haiti and animals being killed are true?
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Pamela Kay Waters
And do you believe if the tables were turned, Mexico would let us migrate to thier County. NOT. You always write a book maybe you should stop and really think of the scenario. And stop writing the books you post because no one cares what you say.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
No, YOU don't care what I say, many others do, in fact, care. And I do know the scenario a great deal better than you do. As a matter of fact, I've family that lives on the border, and family that works i the US Border Patrol. I've also helped those who were technically undocumented - brought in as young kids by their parents, aka DREAMers, get their paperwork in order so they could get their green cards. I also know it because I married someone who wasn't born in this country, and we had go to through the BS of immigration and it took years to get him here. And he is from Canada. I know the system VERY well.
And if the tables were turned and we were fleeing violence and persecution? Yeah, unlike the hate-filled mobs here in the USA, Mexico would in fact let them in. In truth, there are about 800,000 or 8 hundred thousand, if you can't read numbers, of United States citizens living illegally in Mexico right now. Do you think that Mexico is ripping their families apart, calling for their mass executions, spreading absolute hate about them, trying to get their neighbors to abuse them?
Nope. They are welcoming them with open arms.
Also, the undocumented migrants here in the United States contribute over 1 billion every year to our economy in taxes as well. In fact, if not for them, our nation would struggle, badly. And no matter how you try to say "Shut up, you don't have a right to speak up on this", and no you didn't say those exact words, but that is the gist of your posting, I have every right to speak up.
It's just rather sad I have to teach people who don't know hate-rhetoric when they hear it from a hole in the ground.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Jesus would open his arms to everyone and welcome them. He would set out a table and tell those who come across despite being undocumented and say "Come, allow me to welcome you, please be at peace and sit with me."
Sadly, many here are filled with hatred and believe lies told by political pundits who use lies and hate to control the masses. This hatred seemed to not really be around until the USA got its first black president in 2008. That is when there was a massive explosion of hatred and resentment that bubbled to the surface. Flames fanned by shock-jocks and conspiracy pushers who used that to gain popularity and, in gaining popularity, also got people to give them money and attention.
And so now, they follow the path of hate, averace, and violence. Advocating for cruelty and brutality. Everything that Jesus was completely against.
But at the same time, they claim they're "doing what jesus would do" and "doing what their god would do". They claim to be good religious individuals, but then do absolutely everything they claim that "only evil people would do.
They are following a path that won't lead them into the light, because they're WAY too happy running as fast as they can screaming into the darkness.
https://discipleshipdevelopment.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/the-sermon-on-the-mount-1.pdf
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, the link you copied was to a very fundamentalist Foursquare church in Riverside, California and had nothing to do with either immigration or breaking US law. There is so much more to the Christian faith than supposed in your comments. One cannot just pick out the parts that sound nice to support ones narrative. One must understand the scriptures and traditions in their entirety. Therefore, it's inappropriate for non-Christians to speak as if they have understanding where they don't. Do tell us what the Goddess in whom you believe would or wouldn't do, but leave the Christ to the Christians. Cultural appropriation dear!
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Lori-Ann Neeb
Mr. Kester, I agreed with most of your reply. Fundamentals, conservatives, hate groups and cult leaders have been memorizing passages for centuries to put their own spin or interpretation on them to try to convert people to their cause so one should always keep an. Open and inquisitive mind whenever reading it. And there are Christians out there who have embraced a true spiritual heart striving to love and accept all God's children. But there is also a Christian sense of entitlement in some also . But as a gnostic Christian , I believe in most of those in your Bible. I just do not believe the Bible portrays the actual lives they lived. So I should be able to speak of my belief in the Mother, Father and Christ consciousness if I want to respectfully share thoughts with someone who may ask or want to listen. Just because I believe he was married to Mary magdelyn and survived the crucification to live to a ripe old age while you may not does not render either one of us to have more a right to speak about it.
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Clay Serenbetz
Yes, machines are available, but they're not ideal in all situations. The can harvest grapes for wine, but breakage is more common and you need special trellises. Ornophiles are not pleased with the quality of wines harvested mechanically. Furthermore, machines cannot differentiate ripe fruit from unripe. Leading again to an inferior product. If your tastes are so pedestrian, good for you, but I prefer higher quality products.
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Daniel Gray
My point is that there are machines who can do this, and with the technology today breakage has been dropped by well over 85%. And tell me you dont get bruises and damage when just dumping the veggies into a truck. so your whole point, while amenable, is fluff
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
I wonder if they'll throw in some lions...
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
As a ULC minister/chaplain (now close to being eligible to become a public school chaplain in Oklahoma’s public schools) I feel obliged to inform “those, not in the know” that White Christian Europeans, who migrated to what is now North America, had the permission of Pope Alexander, to grab all the North American land they could; and that Pope Alexander had received the permission of the Christian God to do so; so there!. Don’t believe me? Google “Doctrine of Discovery” — then interpret for yourself— whether the White Christian Europeans, had the permission of the Christian God, to grab all the native lands, they wanted to, as they were permitted to legitimately do so, in order to enable Native Americans to be led to Jesus. Got it? The Doctrine of Discovery - that’s not taught in the USA’s public schools.
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Eric Laspe
Bruh, this is the United States of America and the year is 2024. Nobody believes that “God spoke directly to the Pope” nonsense anymore. If the Pope feels entitled to our land, he’s welcome to come and try to take it.
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Rev. Michelle Love
"God spoke directly to the Pope" is code for "the Pope is psychic."
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Thomas P. Davis
Especially when the popes make the statements that God has to listen to whatever they speak in ex cathedra.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas, Just to clarify, are you saying that God has to listen to the Pope or the other way around?
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Thomas P. Davis
That is what the pope says, not me.
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Rev. Michelle Love
This must be a mistake. The Pope is a messenger of God and relays his words to his congregation. Why would any person even think that they had so much authority that God had to listen to them? Is it the current Pope that's saying this?
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Thomas P. Davis
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, for a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. What person on this planet fulfills these verses? " The pope.... is not a mere man, but as it were but as it were God.... we hold upon this earth the place God Almighty. Pope Leo viii, June 20th, 1894, "" The pope is of so great authority and power he can modify, explain or interpret, even divine law, since his power is not of mere man but of God, " God himself is obliged to abide by the judgments of the priests, the sentence of the priest precedes, and God subscribes to it. Dignities and Duties of the priest vol12 page 27. " The pope has the power to change times and abrogate laws and to dispense with all things even the precepts of Christ.( descretal de translate Episcop.cap) Here are some of the many quotes I have on where he places himself.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas,
Knowing that the Bible is a book of prophecies, I believe a Pope may have read this verse and interpreted it in a way to assert himself as God, not realizing that he would be seen as the one guilty of committing blasphemy.
There is no man on earth whose power is greater than God's.
Thank you for such a thorough response.
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Thomas P. Davis
I wanted to give more comments from previous popes on the same subject, but I need to find an easy way to convert image to text. I agree with you that there is no man whose power is greater than God, but unfortunately the pope does not agree with that.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Thomas, No need to provide further proof. This is a great example of how people have translated the word of God to fit their hidden agenda and excuse bad behavior.
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Russel A. Kester
What effect could such a papel doctrine have when our nation at that time was 98% Protestant? Specious reasoning.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry fake bishop. But over 80% of Oklahoma belongs to Native Americans and there is no way possible that they are going to hire you with your attitude. So keep dreaming.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Bishop Dusenberry, So basically Pope Alexander was a colonizer?
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Daniel Gray
I hope they reject you as your claim about the pope giving them permission to grab all the land they could is an utter lie. Now if you think otherwise then please show where it was said.
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Patricia Ann Gross
The question I have about this all is what does housing hungry and homeless immigrants have to do with human trafficing? Human trafficing involves the kidnapping of people for the purposes of slave labor or work in the sex industry. This charity is a shelter and food bank, and to answer the question about feeding the hungry being illegal - people who frequent food banks that are funded by federal grants have a requirement to show identification that would indicate that they are here legally. Many food banks are run independently without the oversight of federal grants, so for them, they can feed anyone. As long as this charity does not accept federal funding, there is no oversight of who they can or cannot serve. I worked for a non-profit that refused any state or federal money for that reason.
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Russel A. Kester
A surprising number of the children crossing come with addresses of supposed relatives. Once the children are released to these 'relatives' the government is required to follow up with them but cannot demand to actually see or speak with them. There are credible reports these children, who can be as young 5 or 6, are actually being delivered to pedophile rings. The exact numbers cannot be confirmed.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Your point is taken, but this is a shelter, not a "distant relative" who lives somewhere in the community. I will believe the "reports" about pedophile rings when I see the numbers.
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Eric Laspe
I think one issue is that churches in the US enjoy tax-exempt status, which is a form of federal funding.
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Patricia Ann Gross
There is nothing in the tax exemption paperwork that prohibits who a charity can serve. Tax exempt charities are allowed to provide assistance and help to foreign governments and their citizens (CWS and Heifer Project are prime examples). Federal grants, on the other hand, will have restrictions on who the money from the grant can serve, so while you may have a point with tax exemption being a form of federal funding (in not requiring they pay taxes, which for-profit companys do), "federal funding" in the form of grants is an entirely different thing. The grants have contractual requirements that can be audited, and rescinded or not renewed if found out of compliance.
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Joshua Ervin
I pray for you my child.
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Michael Holland
You got a big wealthy church is Houston, why can't Osteen give up some of his millions and feed a couple hundred thousand people! That's what Jesus would do!
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Rev. Michelle Love
He wouldn't even provide shelter to U.S. citizens fleeing from Hurricane Harvey. I doubt he's going to give up millions of dollars to feed a couple hundred thousand people from another country when he wasn't willing to help people from his own.
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Michael Holland
WWJD
I'll tell ya what he'd do, he would house the homeless, feed the poor by turning a loaf of bread into thousands, turn water into wine and fill those fishermen's boats with fish! Thas what the Bible says, yall contradicting the Bible? Not very Christ like , eh what?
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Eric Laspe
Unfortunately, we no longer have a wizard running around turning things into food. Here on planet Earth, resources are limited and we have millions of legal migrants and citizens that need feeding first.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
There’s a difference between migrant and immigrant. This makes it sound as if they are migrant workers rather than illegal immigrants.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The post states migrants which makes it sound legal, as in migrant workers. Immigrants have moved, whether legally or illegally.
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Walter J. Holbrook
Since the pour of Trumps attitude toward immigrants has shown the true poison of its nature. There are those who claim to be Godly. Have shown their poisoners side for orphans, widows, and even those being oppressed. But this is what "Make America Great Again, (MAGA) is. How do you preach love and tolerance. But also spit hatred.
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Walter J. Holbrook
Since the pour of Trumps attitude toward immigrants has shown the true poison of its nature. There are those who claim to be Godly. Have shown their poisoners side for orphans, widows, and even those being oppressed. But this is what "Make America Great Again, (MAGA) is. How do you preach love and tolerance. But also spit hatred.
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Pamela Kay Waters
He is just trying to get us back to where we were before covid. Doesn't anyone recall how well this country was duing under Trump
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Clay Serenbetz
I'm flabbergasted that you think this country did well under "Trump". Let's review a few of the highlights. He had the worst employment numbers of any President. He cut taxes on the rich blowing up our national debt. He mismanaged the COVID crisis, resulting in untold, unnecessary death of Americans. If Americans had followed his advice by injecting bleach onto their veins, we would all be dead, which demonstrates his lack of knowledge or respect for experts. He lies. The biggest lie of which might be his lie that Mexico would pay for the wall. He was recorded attempting to have Ukraine to influence our election. He attempted a coup against our government and values. He hired a bunch of thugs in his administration, who later committed crimes against the U.S. Trump used his Office for personal gain. He is a adjudicated sexual predator - one judge said his actions were rape. He declared bankruptcy three times, which, in my opinion, makes him a deadbeat. Very few of the unconvicted members of his administration support him for President. I could go on and on...
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Daniel Gray
and I am flabbergasted that you have the audacity to come here and post lies and expect people to accept them.
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Daniel Gray
saying it three times does not make it any less a lie.
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Walter J. Holbrook
Since the pour of Trumps attitude toward immigrants has shown the true poison of its nature. There are those who claim to be Godly. Have shown their poisoners side for orphans, widows, and even those being oppressed. But this is what "Make America Great Again, (MAGA) is. How do you preach love and tolerance. But also spit hatred.
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Harold Albert Clark
I was just discussing God's law and man's law resent, and the boundaries, territories, immigration, and the now the issues at El Paso. The court sided with Sister Pimentel, for now, but are alleged the Catholic Charities of human trafficking! I hope this is a way trying Texas Attorney General, and continuing to fail, the work the Catholic Charities has done for 10 years. My worries are man's law continuing to interfere, intact and clash with God's law, how do we take a stand? What is the point or "straw" that we say God's law, I think Romans 8:1-4 helped me.
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Michael Holland
What would Jesus do, not the pope, not Joel Osteen, not anybody but Jesus? Well if you really believe the Bible God will provide! End of story!
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Patrick Alois deHertogh
So according to how article is written. Is the subject description actually accurate? And Is it not important according to Bible that must obey the kings laws. To me this has more than someone being in humanitarian. Countries have laws for the protection of the country and it's citizens. So who exactly are these immigrants? You have the supposed right to protect your property. So if you had a rooming house and you had rules that I was informed about but decided that it would be cruel to leave all my homeless friends in the cold and offer them shelter. In your property. Should you be able to throw me out.
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Pamela Kay Waters
If you're here illegally. Yes
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Pamela Kay Waters
Isn't he the one that wanted to stop them from coming over by building the waall that most protested?
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Minister Holly B Lovey
YES!
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Gary. Collins
They should Go back to where they came from our country is Broke and Broken
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Donald G Magel
And you of course are Native American? If not, your family should “go back” also.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Yep
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Rev. Michelle Love
Yeah. We are so broke our government has billions of dollars to spend on wars that have nothing to do with us.
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Redwolf Krise
America broke it! They should help fix it!! They’re natives too! There is North America and South America IMO “America” was the first word for dibz! We make up 2-3% of our own countries population. Got Dibzed the worst!
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Patrick Meier
Of course it's not a crime. The state wants no competition (in authority) from the church nor any religion, for that matter, and with lies and propaganda they try to discourage people from supporting anything to do with faith and religion.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
We all know exactly what he would do. You want to know? Here you go.
I dare you to read this in full, Kenneth Kling.
https://discipleshipdevelopment.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/the-sermon-on-the-mount-1.pdf
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Daniel Gray
Ok here is a simple solution, ALL of you who want the illegals, then you have the right to take them and YOU support them and YOU pay for their kids to go to school and YOU pay for their housing. Leave the rest of us who are already having a had time taking care of our own and LEGAL citizens alone.
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Clay Serenbetz
Illegals are by and large hard-working and doing jobs that Americans are unwilling to do, such as picking fruit in hot fields. They also are more law-abiding than existing citizens. They pay taxes, just like you and me. We need them to make our economy work. We should welcome them.
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Daniel Gray
Really? Some very well may be, but when they cross the border and enter this country illegally then they are no better then the criminals that we already have here. Its a simple matter so one wonders why you cant see it.
And need I remind you that the Cosa Nostra (Mafia) pays taxes as well but that does not mean we need to accept them as neighbors.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Very good point
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Pamela Kay Waters
Yep. That's what needs to be done. Let them pay their way
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Pamela Kay Waters
What's the point of replying or commenting on some of these outrageous posts only to have them be deleted. I think calling someone who spoke their piece should NOT be called an atheist.
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Daniel Gray
Nice of you to use a myth to try and prove your point. You do know right that Ireland NEVER HAD any form of snake on the island nation, snakes most likely haven't lived in Ireland since before the last Ice Age. This is mainly due to the Ice Age covering all of Ireland and the rest of the British Isles in snow and ice meaning it was completely inhospitable for all animals. And that was 10,000 years ago. Now while Saint Patrick was a fifth-century Romano-British Christian missionary and bishop in Ireland (IE Real Person) the snakes were well gone and extinct a couple thousand years before he was a twinkle in his mother eye.
Now for the pagans, seems strange that they are still in Ireland and celebrated every Halloween with images of Samhain.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Well, it's official: starting in 2025, U.S. passport holders will need to apply for a system called ETIAS that will require Americans to register before being allowed to travel to any country in Europe. This registration costs 7 Euro and includes providing copies of your passport as well as fingerprints so authorities can vet to see who they want to allow into their country. It is as if Europe saw all this hate speech about migrant workers being illegals for the witchcraft that it was and did a return to sender in the form of a policy that will restrict our movements in a way that Americans have never seen before.
I am grateful for my two tours in Europe that allowed me to visit countries I may never have seen otherwise. While there are two other countries on my bucket list that I have yet to be able to visit, I am not going to open myself up to possible discrimination and have to pay a toll for the privilege. I am also not going to give away my personal information in a manner that can be possibly exploited in the form of identity theft in the future.
So thanks to all of the narrow-minded people out there that helped make this happen. This is exactly why we can't have nice things...
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Daniel Gray
Simple way to fix this, if you dont want to abide by their rules then stay out of their country. You DO NOT get to go to another country and demand they treat you the same way you would be treated here. I would LOVE to see you go to Bruni and walk around like the big shot you think you are. I will ASSURE you that you would be in a Bruni Prison so fast that it would make your head spin. Dont flush a public crapper, $500. fine Spit on the sidewalk 500.fine, drop trash on the street? 30 days in jail and a 1000, fine
I am getting tired of people who think that just because you can use the term American, that somehow your perceived rights over turn the laws of another country. Same for that idiot Basketball player who went to Russia and took pot vapes with her and you see what happened to her didnt you?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel,
Are you referring to Brunei, an Asian country that is not affected by this change being made by the European Union?
And by being a big shot, are you referring to the fact that I am a woman that dare speaks my mind in a public forum and refuses to be bullied by trolls that can't stand that I may possibly know more than they do? If that is the case, then I claim the title of Big Shot proudly,
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Daniel Gray
No I dont care if you are a woman or a man or some part of a mythical alphabet group. You think you can go to another country and demand they respect your home country laws? Dream on. if you are there then you follow THEIR laws and if you are here you follow OUR laws. End of story
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Rev. Michelle Love
Daniel,
Do you see this blog as an opportunity to practice improv? Practically every comment you have left on a post of mine has not been based in fact. It is exhausting having to clean up your trail of false information, but I feel someone needs to because words carry weight.
The pen is mightier than the sword and it is our responsibility as ministers to wield this weapon wisely. When we are dead and gone, our words will be the last thing people have to remember us by. How do you want to be remembered? As an internet troll? As a hate-monger on a blog for a church that only wants to promote inclusion?
I feel sorry for you because apparently you have been through so much that your mind is completely clouded with hate. I wish I could take away that pain for you but I believe you need to do that work on your own.
With that being said, as a woman that has done her own shadow work, I am going to refrain from responding to any of your further comments as I believe in protecting my energy.
Peace be unto you.
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Daniel Gray
Why? You seem to be doing that very well for the whole thread.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Exactly
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Lori-Ann Neeb
Mr. Gray, you have some nerve talking about facts. You either have way too much time on your hands to know that countries justice system and fines. if you were correct. Not that I will waste my time checking because I really do not care about the fines in a country I have no plans to ever visit. Or you feel the need to plaster your posts and replies with useless facts to try to distract the other person from the real issue which you know you have no proof or logical defense of. It is called deflection and is one of the main tools used by people like you to try to make others think you have a clue.
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Pamela Kay Waters
So if you already have a passport you will need this? Seems it's not much different then the ones we have
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Rev. Michelle Love
Pamela,
This new requirement is in addition to your passport. You have to pay a fee of 7 Euro to apply and there is no guarantee that you will be granted access to the country.
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Clay Serenbetz
Y'all should read Ted Genoways Op-Ed in the "New York Times", September 2, 2024. Specifically that our economy and particularly our food production and delivery system would face a dire crisis. Yes, immigrants are illegal, but our country needs them and, as a policy matter, should provide workers visas for them to do the hard work that legal workers shun, instead of forcing "undocumented" status upon them.
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Daniel Gray
Um no they dont. There are machines that can pick fruit and field crops. There are machines that can garden and can build houses, for crying out loud they have a machine that spews out concrete like toothpaste and can build a house in less then a day. They also have house kits that you can put up yourself that takes less then a week and can withstand up to 180 mph winds.
And name me one job that Americans wont do as you claim. Bet ya cant.
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Daniel Gray
And as usual, when i PROVIDE LINKS and prove a whiner wrong, they then come back and stomp their feet claiming arrogance. Now how exactly can this be if you are provided links that prove exactly what I said? Or is it that you are just upset that you have been proved a no nothing?
WWJD? didn't he mention something about feeding the hungry?
‘For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me ..."
I guess Jesus was "abetting".
The Jews to whom Jesus was speaking -- and about -- were legal residents.
Actually, he was speaking to, and about, everyone. Not just the Jewish. And there were no strict borders of "legal / illegal" residents back then. People travelled across borders all the time to settle in multiple lands without any "papers". You actually don't see the strict "borders" thing until near the modern era. It really didn't become a serious thing, southern or northern, until after the USA's civil war.
So yeah, that's a fallacy. Rev. BH is correct. He would feed the hungry, house those in need. If he were alive today, he would be setting up large tables along the border and offering to feed the undocumented migrants and offering to help them. And asking others to do the same.
Bridget, I'm not convinced he was speaking to everyone in the way you mean it. Caring for the poor in ancient Israel was understood as a command from Israel's God and was referring to the poor within its own society. So his telling them to feed the poor was to fulfill God's command to the Jews obligation within Jewish society not beyond its borders. It is the same concept of God that commanded the Jews to defend it's borders and to survive as a people.
Dont try and correct her imagined claims as she wont allow it as it does not fit her agenda.
And Moses said, "Thus says the Lord: You shall not oppress the stranger, for you were strangers once yourselves in Egypt." And the people grew angry, and said "Oh Lord! Why are you teaching us to be woke socialist communist fascists?" And Moses replied, "Do any of you know what those words actually mean?" And none of them did.
It amazes me James Mounts that you would turn your back on the word of Christ simply because the current media tells you it’s ok, you show me in the Bible where it states that you should let the hunger starve and I will retract my comment! Nobody is suggesting that the laws get broke or even bent, but what you’re suggesting is absolute evil. I pray the lord helps you see your way back! You will be judged one day for your actions here on earth.
Where does it say anything about legal residency anywhere in the Bible? I recall reading about entire encampments being set up outside of city walls during times of religious festivals. The Romans tried to find a way to force these people into paying taxes by charging them to get into the temple they came to worship in. Did this taxation give them residency rights?
I don't recall anything about legal/illegal residents in the bible, do you?
And I dont see anything in the Bible about us having to support illegals either, do you?
I don't see that in the scriptiure, James Mounts. What makes you say that, other than you want it to be so?
That was then this is now. They say the devil is running the show these days while waiting for Jesus's return. WWJD is so old now we all know what he's going to do. Don't we?