After years of religious parents demanding LGBTQ+ books be removed from public school libraries, one teacher is fighting back.
The saga began when Ohio elementary school teacher Karen Cahall was suspended for three days after a parent complained to the principal and school board about "inappropriate" books in her classroom that included LGBTQ+ content.
Cahall has alleged that the district violated her moral and religious convictions, as she feels a deep calling to provide love and care for LGBTQ+ kids. The books are an expression of that, she says.
Now Cahall is suing the district, utilizing the same legal strategy frequently invoked by anti-LGBTQ+ faithful to purge classrooms and school libraries of such content: religious freedom.
Is turnabout fair play?
Fighting Fire With Fire?
"Cahall maintains sincere and deeply rooted moral and religious beliefs that all children, including children who are LGBTQ+ or the children of parents who are LGBTQ+, deserve to be respected, accepted, and loved for who they are," reads the lawsuit against the New Richmond Exempted Village School District in Clermont County, Ohio.
The suit argues that her “sincerely held moral and religious beliefs [are that] LGBTQ+ youth needed to have access to safe spaces and safe people both at school and outside of school to whom they could confide and seek guidance."
The books at the center of the controversy (Ana on the Edge, The Fabulous Zed Watson, Hazel Bly and the Deep Blue Sea, and Too Bright to See) were all age-appropriate and featured no explicit content, but had LGBTQ+ themes or characters. Cahall estimates they are just a handful of some 100 books in her classroom that students are free to read (or not read) during free time. She does not teach them and they are not mandatory reading.
Cahall had previously requested to have the books placed in the school library, but was denied by the school district. When they were found in her classroom, the school issued the three-day suspension.
Class(room) Warfare
It’s no secret that public school libraries and classrooms have become cultural battlegrounds in recent years. Increasingly, parents, community members, and local clergy have been flooding school board meetings all across the country, demanding that any books with LGBTQ+ content in them be removed.
In some cases, they’ve even proposed burning them.
At the same time, schools across the country are increasingly teaching kids the Holy Bible instead, and President-elect Trump has even vowed to bring school prayer back to the classroom.
Faith – or at least evangelical Christianity – is clearly coming back to schools. But is there room for opposing opinions?
Cahall says that her religious beliefs require her to care for and treat LGBTQ+ kids with dignity. For her, that includes offering age-appropriate books for them to read should they so choose. Does the state have the authority to tell her what she truly believes? And is that a can of legal worms we want to open?
What do you think? When it comes to the rights of teachers to practice their faith in the classroom, where, exactly, is the line?
124 comments
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Ken
The Bible clearly speaks against homosexuality !
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Lawrence Pearce
She defeats her own argument by admitting that she is bringing her "religious books" about sexual predators into a grade school classroom, as if "religious books" are okay in public schools.
Yet we all know that if a different female teacher brought her "religious books" of bible stories into the same public school, she would be fired.
Her claim falls apart when she claims that her "religious books" are protected and all other "religious books" should be banned. Either all "religious books" like her groomer books are allowed or none of them should be allowed.
More evidence of teachers grooming children for molestations: "Female Teacher Charged with Raping Student" https://nypost.com/2024/11/13/us-news/la-teacher-left-her-husband-for-boy-13-she-called-her-crystal-meth-prosecutors/
All sexual predators should be banned from grooming children, no matter their sexual preferences at home in the bedroom.
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Lawrence Pearce
Is this one of the female teachers we will be reading about a few years from now, like this recent headline? "Teacher arrested after having sex with 12 year old student"
Protect children by firing the teachers who are grooming their next victims!
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Roger McQuistion
I my self according to the Bible it's a sin to engage in those kind of acts , Butt let God judge them not you , Butt I believe we shouldn't teach it to our kids, Butt that's my appinion .
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Leave minors and those unable to consent to sex alone. Don't ask, and don't tell. I do not care to hear about the sexual lifestyle of others. If you need catharsis, write a novel or confess to your priest.
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Roger McQuistion
I my self according to the Bible it's a sin to engage in those kind of acts , Butt let God judge them not you , Butt I believe we shouldn't teach it to our kids, Butt that's my appinion .
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ServantOfJudgement
The lgbtqia++map has all the trappings of a religion. It has a holy symbol with many variations and denominations. It conducts parade celebrations and has sacred days marked out through the year. It seeks to convert the adults and indoctrinate the youth. It demands protections and special treatment under claims of persecution and even genocide. It can be blasphemed against with severe consequences. It's perverted priests and policies are protected by the whole. It's got it all, even donations and tithing.
Indeed, this woman is correct, her employer has taken a stance against religious indoctrination in public schools.
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Lawrence Pearce
The medical and legal realities are beginning to reverse the course of the groomers. The so called "trans" kids who were castrated are now reaching ages 16 to 21 and they are filing multimillion dollar lawsuits against the hospitals and surgeons who castrated them when they were underage children.
Those genital mutilating hospitals are going to be paying out millions of dollars to the victims and the "surgeons" will be going to prison for years. This is just the beginning of lawsuits against the groomers and mutilators of children.
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Delayne Charles Smith
I cant help but notice your willingness to incorrectly help the children has led you to become delusional, it appears in your thoughts. Im not saying your delusional, even though somehow I believe that your lack of knowledge and letting your emotions override common sense, and somehow it is a form of religion? I admit that religions are man made ways an method ideologies in service of what they choose to believe as God. But who are you trying to serve? The correct path would be to enable the children to become comfortable in their own skin, not alienated for life ,within themselves because of a childhood mutilation and or hormone and puberty blockers.what is your religion? It's a new one for me. I'm interested in knowing what your beliefs are.
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Michael Hunt
Receiving puberty blockers and gender affirming care is exactly what trans children need in order to be comfortable in their own skin.
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Lawrence Pearce
Did a surgeon just make a comment? The fact remains that nobody under age 18 is legally able to buy a beer, join the military or make a life changing and irreversible decision to have a surgeon cut off and throw away their genitals.
Recent headlines tell stories of "trans" kids who are now over 18 years old and realizing they were lied to by people who would make thousands of dollars for destroying the bodies of children and teenagers. They are suing the surgeons and the hospitals for millions of dollars and it's just the start of a tsunami of lawsuits.
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Michael Hunt
I have found one story about a person being misdiagnosed as transgender and then receiving gender affirming care. I have also found hundreds of stories of people who received gender affirming care and have lived happier lives because of it. This isn't the start of a tsunami of lawsuits.
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Lawrence Pearce
Lawsuits Against Gender Castration Doctors and Hospitals: There are several lawsuits filed against doctors and hospitals for allegedly rushing into gender transition procedures, including puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgeries such as double mastectomies and hysterectomies, without proper diagnosis, consideration, or informed consent.
California Lawsuit: A 20-year-old woman, Kaya Clementine Breen, has filed a lawsuit against California hospitals and doctors, alleging they rushed her into gender transition procedures at the age of 12, including puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and a double mastectomy at 14, without proper mental health assessment or consideration of past trauma.
Tavistock Gender Clinic Lawsuit: The Tavistock gender identity clinic in the UK is facing legal action over claims that children were misdiagnosed and rushed into transitioning at a young age, with allegations that staff were under pressure to adopt an “unquestioning affirmative approach” and that children were given life-altering puberty blockers without adequate consideration or proper diagnosis.
UW Hospital Lawsuit: A woman in Wisconsin is suing two surgeons and UW Hospital for allegedly removing her uterus and breasts without proper consent, after she self-diagnosed herself with gender dysphoria as a teenager, with the lawsuit arguing that the doctors carried out malpractice and failed to obtain informed consent.
Those are all very real people filing lawsuits against criminal doctors and hospitals.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Maybe post more than YouTube links about grown women going after young boys. Maybe post actual links instead of new max click bait stories.
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Michael Hunt
You have 2 examples from the United States and one from the UK. In the US, from 2016-2019 there were about 48,000 patients who underwent gender-affirming surgery. If only 2 people are coming out against their doctors for performing their treatment, that speaks way more to isolated incidents of bad doctors, not an indictment of the treatment in total. Meanwhile a survey of 92,329 American transgender individuals who underwent gender transition found that 94% of respondents expressed that they were more satisfied with their life post treatment. https://ustranssurvey.org/
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Rev Morse
It's not a religion
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Lawrence Pearce
True. Grooming children is not a religion, it's a crime, whether it's performed in a public school or a private school.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Supporting trans youth isn’t grooming. Get some new material already.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but no. This is a case she will lose and then because of her suing her employer, there is a good chance that she will lose her job along with it. If she is going to claim religious grounds, then she MUST show what religion and its teachings on the subject, not just say this so she can keep her job. And lets not forget the Courts have already ruled on this issue...so yea lets see how much she whines when she is shut down.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Comment has been removed.
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Lawrence Pearce
Teaching sexual positions to children is the illegal "religion" of groomers. We draw the line at protecting all children from all predators by calling the police and having them arrested for their crimes.
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Michael Hunt
Teachers aren't teaching children sex positions in classes. Are there teachers who are pedophiles? Yes. Do all of them support LGBTQ+ rights? No. Teaching kids that gay people exist is not "grooming" them.
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Cardinial Sin
i find the way how the gender ideologcal TQ+ activists and the rest of the made up letters have fully hijacked the LGB +classical T community and turned it into an evangelical religious cult that preys on gay, lesbian and autistic kids, convincing them they are trans and aggressively move them into a transitioning track. They can try to convince adults as miuch as they like, but they have to stop brainwashing kids with mental issues and prevent them from, getting the help they need.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
How on earth did you arrive at your extremely faulty conclusions that the LGBTQ+ community is brainwashing kids? If anyone is doing that it’s the pedophile religious folk. It’s not possible to “convert” someone to be LGBTQ+ any more than you can convert them to be straight.
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Delayne Charles Smith
I have one question for you how does a child determine their sexuality before they have ever reached puberty they have never had the natural desire that comes with puberty for the opposite sex so why are you messing with their minds and giving them puberty blockers and whatnot I'm not saying you are but I'm saying why are they doing it that's what I want to know??
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Michael Hunt
I knew I was attracted more to girls than boys way before I hit puberty so it's incorrect to assume that sexuality only comes up once a child hits puberty. And puberty blockers have nothing to do with sexuality. They are so that transgender children can make the decision to receive gender affirming care later in life but before going through puberty as the gender they do not identify with. Puberty blockers allow them to have a more natural transition which allows them to pass as their gender more easily.
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Daniel Gray
Which have been ruled as illegal in some states and upheld as that law being constitutional by SCOTUS, so I would not put too much faith in puberty blockers being around for very much longer
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Michael Hunt
That would be the problem, Daniel. These treatments are backed up by scientific data to show that they overwhelmingly have positive results but the government is going to tell these people that they cannot receive that treatment. Imagine being told that the medications or treatments you need to live a happy life are now illegal. Would you deny prosthetic limbs to an amputee? That would be incredibly immoral in my opinion and yet the courts are essentially coming to that ruling by denying gender affirming care.
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Delayne Charles Smith
It's the parents responsibility I believe to make sure the child reaches adult hood before It should be faced with life altering decisions such as gender changing.Adults that promote this in children should more than likely be held accountable truth be told.
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Delayne Charles Smith
Calling each other names and placing labels does not begin to solve any part of the issue. We are adults , are we not ?
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Lawrence Pearce
Many "trans" children who were told to get castrated are now reaching the ages of 17 to 21 and realizing they were lied to by criminal surgeons who only wanted to make thousands of dollars by surgically removing their genitals. They are filing lawsuits in the millions of dollars against the hospitals and surgeons.
The lesson is to respect ALL children and allow them to become adults so they can make their own decisions for or against genital mutilation! Some of those surgeons will be paying out millions of dollars and then going to prison for their crimes against children.
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Dan Anderson
Lawrence - Where on earth did you come up with your fable of children being told to get castrated? Apparently, there is a discrepancy between procedures regarding this subject and one's perception of what happens.
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Lawrence Pearce
Lawsuits Against Gender Castration Doctors and Hospitals: There are several lawsuits filed against doctors and hospitals for rushing into gender transition procedures, including puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgeries such as double mastectomies and hysterectomies, without proper diagnosis, consideration, or informed consent.
California Lawsuit: A 20-year-old woman, Kaya Clementine Breen, has filed a lawsuit against California hospitals and doctors, alleging they rushed her into gender transition procedures at the age of 12, including puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and a double mastectomy at 14, without proper mental health assessment or consideration of past trauma.
Tavistock Gender Clinic Lawsuit: The Tavistock gender identity clinic in the UK is facing legal action over claims that children were misdiagnosed and rushed into transitioning at a young age, with allegations that staff were under pressure to adopt an “unquestioning affirmative approach” and that children were given life-altering puberty blockers without adequate consideration or proper diagnosis.
UW Hospital Lawsuit: A woman in Wisconsin is suing two surgeons and UW Hospital for allegedly removing her uterus and breasts without proper consent, after she self-diagnosed herself with gender dysphoria as a teenager, with the lawsuit arguing that the doctors carried out malpractice and failed to obtain informed consent.
These are real lawsuits against criminal doctors and hospitals who forced children into castrations and mutilations of breasts. Get educated on these and many other lawsuits against criminal surgeons.
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Robert James Ruhnke
A coward behind a Pseudonym doesn’t get to judge others on how they live with pseudo psychology and biology and merely project it as fact. It’s insane. The only cult surrounding gender and sex are the gender essentialist using a manipulative gaslighting tactic of mirroring their own insecurities and tactics onto others. The way you carve up my community like a cake to parceled out is atrocious.
Delayne. No one is messing with their minds, most teens who seek those blockers have been informed what they do and have been on the trans path for as long as they know. You gaslighting them by trying to say they’re confused is an old and predictable tactic of gender essentialists. That’s not me name calling, that’s me giving an accurate description. Don’t create false equivalencies where there aren’t.
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Lawrence Pearce
IF you cannot legally buy a beer, drink whiskey or join the military until you're 18 or 21 years old, then what makes you think any child under age 18 should be allowed to make a "legal" decision to have his or her genitals surgically removed with the coercion of a surgeon who will make thousands of dollars for that life destroying, irreversible surgery?
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Dan Anderson
Lawrence - please offer empirical evidence for such actions being taken. Specific references, please.
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Daniel Gray
Its called Puberty Blockers Dan, please keep up
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116284/documents/HHRG-118-JU10-20230727-SD011.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjl6-WOocSKAxWhwvACHcn6IacQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw309TEDJEg6bi2mS-QnTSUN
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Robert James Ruhnke
I think you’re pushing a false equivalency, Pearce. Again. Hush. You’re pushing fairy stories from Twisted angles. That’s how I know young people can make informed decisions with parental consent backing them.
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Lawrence Pearce
The "lbgtqs" have carved up themselves into various groups, no outside group was required. The anti-scientific claim that there are more than two genders is verifiably false in all labs that test for DNA.
Multimillion dollar lawsuits have been filed against criminal surgeons and hospitals who have rushed children into castrations and mutilations of their breasts and genitals. Search "lawsuits against gender castration doctors and hospitals" for a real education on what's happening now, as mutilated and castrated children are waking up to realize what the criminals have done to their bodies.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Oh look. No actual links or citations. Total shocker. Waiting for the clock Zur next.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Click bait…. That was supposed to be clickbait. Good lord how is one supposed to be condescending when their keyboard isn’t working. Yeesh.
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Theresa C. Marquess
LGBTQ+ is not a religion. I can't see where Karen Cahall can claim that it is a violation of her religion. It's just another excuse for someone to try to get their 15 minutes of fame. Let's not use our children to try to achieve that. The children will be what they will be regardless, why make them the center of yet another controversy?
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Rev. Klaire ThD, MA
Theresa, your comment appears to be very 'intellectually shallow', to say the least. To make this sort of law suit is NOT to say that "LGBTQ+ IS a religion". You seem to misunderstand the path of how an argument gets from point "A" to point "B". Protection of "freedom of religion" does not hang on doctrine or dagma in any way. It hangs on the ability for freedom of expression (as long as that freedom of expression doesn't negate another's freedom of expression and belief). No one is trying to "use" children. She's trying to protect children by ensuring access to supportive information. Every topic is an ever deepening collection of interrelated and nested bits of complex information. Please do a better job of attempting to analyze information more deeply.
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Theresa C. Marquess
I suggest that you re-read the original article... Ohio Teacher Says LGBTQ+ Book Bans Violate Her Religious Freedom. There is a big difference between the LGBTQ+ and religion. It's obvious that you choose to speak on a forum just for the notoriety of seeing your name posted. Reread, also, my original posting. Obviously, you are having an issue with reading comprehension as I did not say anything at all about "using children." I just don't to see want children made the center of yet another LGBTQ+ controversy! Education regarding the subject of LGBTQ+ should be left to the parents, not a classroom teacher who is opposed to the school district's ruling. There is a good reason why the school board suspended Cahall for three days. Please read before you write!
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
There is a huge difference between Religious Freedom and Religion. Religious Freedom is the freedom to believe in or not believe in any specific religion. Religion is the “what” of your beliefs. For example you are free to be baptist, Presbyterian, satanic, worshiper of nature, etc. if you want to be. Or, you don’t have to be.
No one has said a belief in LGBTQ+ is a religion. Like you said, “read before you wright.”
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Theresa C. Marquess
Okay, Elizabeth, Ohio Teacher Says LGBTQ+ Book Bans Violate Her Religious Freedom. Those are not my words! They are the title of this ULC essay. Now, can you tell me how it violates her religious freedom, because I don't see how it can! ??? The woman is in direct opposition of what the New Richmond Exempted Village School District in Clermont County, Ohio requires of her. That is the reason why she got a 3-day suspension from her job. It should have been enough to make her see the light where the parents do not want the books in her classroom. I'll be waiting to see what your next comment will be.
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Lawrence Pearce
"Teacher Arrested for Grooming and Molesting Child" Those are in our headlines almost every day. A recent headline read, "Teacher who got pregnant after molesting a 12 year old boy learns her fate in court."
The children must be protected from the groomers and predators by the police and judges outside the schools because it seems like some teachers take advantage of children inside our schools!
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Dan Anderson
Lawrence - headlines like your offering is "almost every day"? Are you maybe confusing school shootings with your suggested headlines? Yes, 270 teachers arrested for child abuse is too high, but what do you think is causing this number? Is over 100,000 primary and secondary schools compared to your 270 is a major threat? Given so far that there have been 971 school shootings this year, which do you think is more of a problem? I doubt the school shooters were grooming their fellow students to be terrorists, do you?
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Daniel Gray
No dan he isnt. Even the FBI Crime report is saying that this happens on a daily basis and since the crime report is made up of police reports that are REQUIRED to be sent to the FBI from every department in the US be they local-county-or state, I think he is on much stronger factual ground on this then you are or will ever be as you cant refute the FBI Crime Report or you are calling the police liars now?
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Michael Hunt
Sigh Daniel, we've been over this before; the FBI Crime Report does not specify how many teachers commit sexual abuse of minors. It might specify how many people are arrested for the sexual abuse of minors but nowhere does it list the professions of those who are arrested. Your claims are a lie, and if you don't think police lie, you're delusional.
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Minister Tim
I think the point some may be missing is that although the books are available, they are not mandatory reading nor does she teach about the LGBT+ community. She is supportive if the kids come to her but she isn’t doing any kind of ‘indoctrination’. Growing up in the 70s I knew I was different but there was no support. I applaud her efforts. And for those who disagree about it being about religious freedom, well that’s what the opposition says. I’m inclined to see her reasoning.
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Lawrence Pearce
If a male teacher of 6th graders has books in his classroom that show every form of sexual act, it would still not be appropriate... it would be grooming. Too many teachers are having sex with children today. Just read the headlines. Let's stop the groomers and protect children from predators.
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Minister Tim
These books are NOT about sex or sexual positions. Just stop with your nonsense and projection. I’ve read everything you posted on this thread and you are not a nice human being. LGBT + community folks, myself included, are not the problem and we don’t groom children. That’s a right wing agenda as one only has to check the crime stats and such to see that the problem with groomers come from the so-called religious right. It’s not drag queens and gay folks molesting and grooming kids. No, the folks getting busted are often described as middle aged, married, and conservative. Stop spreading lies and misinformation. If you actually read the article you will note there was no mention of sex in any of the books. Leave us alone and go harass the real problem folks.
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Lawrence Pearce
Are you one of her elementary school students?
Have you read all of her sex books that she rotates in and out of her classroom?
Do you approve of having "religious books" in all public school classrooms, like she is demanding?
I stand against sexual predators of children in schools and I oppose hitmen who murder people on the streets. If you approve of those crimes, it speaks of your own internal problems doesn't it?
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Lawrence Pearce
Evidence in today's headlines that debunk your claim:
"Gay Couple Gets 100 Years in Prison for Horrific Rape of Adopted Sons" By Alex Oliveira Published Dec. 23, 2024, 5:14 p.m. ET https://nypost.com/2024/12/23/us-news/georgia-couple-convicted-for-sickening-sexual-abuse-of-adopted-sons-get-100-years-in-jail-a-house-of-horrors/
Checkmate.
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Dan Anderson
Lawrence - One instant does not equate to all.
Please give something of substance with sources.
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Dan Anderson
Correction: Instance, NOT instant.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Dan but its more then once, or did you read the whole thing where these people RAN a child rape ring?
https://www.the-sun.com/news/13154936/inside-horror-child-rape-ring-atlanta-gay-couple/
meaning it happened more then once.
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Michael Hunt
So because one gay couple sexually abused children, therefore all gay couples abuse children? By that logic, all Christians are murders because Christian extremists have carried out mass shootings. That's absurd.
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Lawrence Pearce
So you approve of her claim that her "religious books" should be placed in all classrooms?
You just opened the door for every other teacher to bring their "religious books" into their classrooms, didn't you?
You gotta think these things through! LOL 🤣
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Minister Tim
Lawrence, you sound like a right wing nut job in all your responses you have posted. It’s quite obvious you have bought into the lies and hate being spread. Folks like you are the reason many suffer. Should we have you investigated? Folks who spread these lies have been known to actually be deflecting. We get it, you are dead set against the LGBT+ and feel the need to accuse us of crimes that we rarely commit but the conservatives are prolific at. Please refrain from commenting on anymore of my posts as I will not respond but report your harassment. Enjoy your miserable life (can’t be happy if you feel the need to spew hate)
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Daniel Gray
No Tim, YOU are the one that sounds like a nutjob. You have not even once been able to refute anything Lawrence has said. So until you do it might be a good idea for you to quite while you think you are ahead
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Minister Tim
If they were indeed ‘sex books’ I believe they would have already been removed and the teacher fired. Unless the powers that be approve of ‘sex books’ in the classroom. Honestly just because a book covers the topic of LGBT+ folks doesn’t mean it contains a discussion explicit sex. Tell me why y’all think this. We don’t have sex on the brain 24/7 but for some reason y’all think that. There’s so much more to life than sex. And books on ‘sex positions’? I’m pretty the karma sutra and books like it are not allowed in schools. Why don’t you ask the teacher the names of the books before spouting nonsense about sex positions and grooming? She not teaching about it but the books are there if the students have questions. Books don’t turn people gay. If that were true I’d be straight. Pull yourself away from the lies and rhetoric about the LGBT+ community and actually learn something. We aren’t what the hate you’ve been taught says.
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Daniel Gray
Oh you mean like the books for homosexuals in grade school libraries?
Pride: The Story of Harvey Milk and the Rainbow Flag This Day in June My Maddy All Families Are Special Prince & Knight Julián is a Mermaid Ritu Weds Chandni I Am Jazz Who Are You My Princess Boy
Just to name a few. And this is not counting the ones that show how to place "rubbers"on bananas or telling children that anal is ok.
No the point is that this teacher should not have anything in her classroom that does not have something to do with the subject she is teaching anything else is personal and does not belong in a taxpayer funded school room as the kids are there to be taught, not indoctrinated.
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Minister Tim
They are not being indoctrinated and those books aren’t about sex. And once again, if the books had anything to do with sex acts would have been publicized, removed, and the teacher fired. She not teaching about sexuality. Why oh why are y’all fixating on sex? We aren’t. We have to concern ourselves with the same things every household does. Since you are so adept at your research maybe you should look at the suicide statics for children and teenagers. Maybe, just maybe these books and an accessible adult to ask questions might save a life. Or, maybe you’re so anti LGBT+ that you feel that would be no real loss. Are you that inhuman? No one is teaching these kids about sex acts, they are letting them know they aren’t crazy because they might feel ‘different’ and there are different types of families. But, unlike what you believe, it’s not indoctrination. The kid may still grow up to be straight. We don’t recruit or convert. I mean, look what we put up with from folks like you. No one chooses to be gay and you can’t be converted. You are born the way you are. And did you ever consider they may have questions about someone they saw or know? I can only conclude that your hearts are so filled with hate for us that your mind is completely clouded to the truth. Stop assuming the worst, open your hearts and minds. If that is impossible, just remember you will one day have to answer to your Jesus when he asks why you hated when he told you to love Everyone. And he never said anything about gay folks. Y’all have a bad habit of cherry picking verses from the Old Testament as you call it (the Torah) and misinterpreting them. If you identify as Christian, stay in your lane. Blessed be.
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Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
Okay, question is what age range are her students? If under the age of puberty they shouldn't have a clue about LGBT+ issues and force the issue either way on them would cause more harm than good. On the legality of the issue as a veteran that fought and bleed for the constitutional rights whined about; people need to actually Read them first. "Congress shall make no law" a teacher's opinion is not a Congress law and her first amendment right to freedom of speech is protected; Even as a minister I disagree with her opinions I will stand by her right to express them.
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Robert James Ruhnke
There are plenty of ways to describe LGBTQ+ lives to young people that are age appropriate. Are there nuances? Absolutely. Is there range? You betcha. Are there adult subjects that should Wait? Most definitely. It’s like pride parades and festivals. There are adult only zones which ID people before going in. Then there are the family friendly locations and events too. The basics of they’re human, with rights, and are just different. Absolutely.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
What does being pre-pubescent have to do with having a clue about LGBTQ+ issues? Surely you are aware that there are children who know from a very young age that they are somehow “different” from others. They may not have the language or other means to express that knowledge but they know.
This teacher is not forcing anything on anyone. She has books available to be read or ignored. There is no “harm” being caused here. You decided to make that up.
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Daniel Gray
yea right, most kids in the picture have a hard time in deciding what to wear or what they want to eat, and you expect anyone with any sense to think they know what sexual orientation they are? Stop it, get some help
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Lawrence Pearce
She claims that her sex books are actually "religious books" that must be protected. If you believe her claim, then you have opened the door for every teacher to bring their "religious books" into their public school classrooms!
After working with the ACLU, I have a very different view of this situation. You have to think these "religious books" claims through to their logical conclusion. Try it sometime!
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Rev. Klaire ThD, MA
Miche'al, you don't seem to have much of a grasp of what those words from the 'Bill Of Rights" (not the U.S. Constitution) mean. Tread lightly when using your 'veteran status' as someone like myself who retired from the Army after 36 years of service in both peace and wartime, may drop by here to tell you how you've actually hung your ignorance out for all to see. Perhaps try reading (everything) a little better and asking questions of people who know these topics much better than yourself.
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Lawrence Pearce
Sounds like a veiled threat.
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Daniel Gray
Maybe you need to take your own advice. It has only been recently that women have been subject to the selective service (it starts 2025 that women have to register as well as the men) and in the Library of Congress there is and are NO bills or Congressionally passed laws allowing women to be anywhere near a front line unit or withing 30 miles of fighting in a warzone. The only people who can do this is Congress, no one else as they hold the ability to make laws as per Article 1 of the US constitution. Heck even in the sandbox women are not allowed to go on patrol as men are doing daily.
And before you say anything I retired from the US Army-SOCOM (Special Operations Command, Airborne-Marine Recon-Seals-Delta Force-bUDS etc all fall under this command) This is why Duckworth is having her Purple Hearts reconsidered as she was not supposed to be anywhere near combat and if it goes this way, she will lose her purple hearts as she violated US Military Regs when she crashed her chopper. So dont try and use your claim of 36 years in peace and wartime...you may have served during a war, but you were never allowed in one.
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Lawrence Pearce
I respect your opinion, but her claim falls apart almost immediately when she claimed that she has brought her "religious books" into her public school classroom!
If she is allowed to bring her "religious books" into a classroom, then the door is opened for every teacher to bring their religious books into their classrooms! Is that what you want? 🤔
"Dozens of Female Teachers Arrested for Allegedly Having Sex with Students" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggrwtv27Rh0
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Reverend Paula Copp
I applaud her stance and support her convictions!
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Lawrence Pearce
Question: WHY is she grooming little children when they are still in elementary school? She is supposed to be teaching the basics of reading, writing and mathematics to children of those ages.
There is no room for adult groomers in our public or private schools, especially today when we read about so many female teachers grooming and having sex with 6th and 7th grade students. Let the kids be kids and stop the groomers now!
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Minister Tim
She isn’t grooming children. You’re thinking of middle aged conservative men.
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Dan Anderson
Since you believe that anyone who happens to be of the LGBT form of humanity and you follow the teachings of the Bible, does this mean that all left-handers must be condemned? After all, one of the main definitions of Sinister is defined as left-handed.
Yes, this is the same quality of examples as you have given.
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Robert Gagnon
Great tactic in theory. Does her religion include children into S&M, white kids that want to black, Nazis, or is it limited to a specialized group? Exactly what religion is she a follower of? Or is it a cult that deifies only certain behaviors? This is the positive behavior that she will drag her students through. Curious to see how this one plays out.
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Robert James Ruhnke
🤦🏻♂️ Good gods that’s some unhinged cringe word salad, Gags. Lots of bad faith argumenting, and false equivalency. Yikes.
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Daniel Gray
just like you have done in trying to imply this is ok
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Robert James Ruhnke
No grey, that’s just you confessing your own problems once again and projecting them onto others.
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Echo
I hope she wins, and this nonsense can stop about hating against minorities. Educators already have a hard enough job with too few resources, making it even harder by these book bans isn't helping anyone. The books aren't making anyone do anything, but for those who question thier gender or sexuality, it's supportive. Taking support away from kids who are looking for answers just leads to poor performance in school and criminal perpensity. Let the book bans fall, for the students, for minorities, for education.
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Lawrence Pearce
She wants permission to bring her "religious books" into a public school classroom. Is this what you want? Because if she wins, she will be opening the door for every teacher to bring their "religious books" into their classrooms... bibles, korans, religious tracts for children to read.
Or maybe she has another motive, like these teachers who made headlines: "Dozens of Female Teachers Arrested for Allegedly Having Sex with Students" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggrwtv27Rh0
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Daniel Gray
she wont. being gay is not a religion and never can be classified as such so she has no legal leg to stand on. And if it is classified as a religion she cant have the books anyway as even the Supreme Court has said no teacher can lead a religious discussion meaning she cant even talk to her students about it. That pesky 1st Amendment you go on and on about.
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Colleen McAllister
Should this teacher be allowed to have those books in her classroom? Yes. Is her argument as to why acceptable? No. LGBTQ+ is not a religion. It is a lifestyle. Another reason to allow the books must be found but religious freedom is not it.
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Reverend Paula Copp
IT’S NOT A LIFESTYLE! It’s how god made me! Is the color of your eyes a choice? How about your natural hair color? No? You mean you were created with those colors? You’re denigrating my existence when you claim that being gay is a choice. Please learn about my community before you intentionally or unintentionally insult us.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Paula, but the vast majority of scientists and doctors clearly state you were not born that way no matter how you want to say different. And if you want to say you were born that way then prove it
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Dan Anderson
Daniel - who are these 'vast majority of scientists and doctors' are you referring? If you were accurate in this statement, why would the DSM-5 claim the opposite of you believe?
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Daniel Gray
American Medical Association-Geneticist-Medical Science, just to name a few very easily to find if you want to bother to look. And I think that they hold more sway in this then your mental health professionals as the DSM5 deals with minds, NOT genetics.
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Lawrence Pearce
If God made you with male DNA and a penis, then you are a male.
If God made you with female DNA and a vagina, then you are a female.
Yes, it's that simple. If you think God made a mistake, then put your order in for a different gender in your next life, but NDErs claim that we all chose our genders before we were born on this planet.
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Robert James Ruhnke
That’s not even true. Biology is more common than your prejudice and superstition based gender essentialism. The only ones who believe your claims are you and the cultists in your echo chamber.
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Rev. Klaire ThD, MA
Colleen, it's almost as if you didn't even read the article. And, NO, LGBTQ+ lives are not a "lifestyle"! To say that is to say that you haven't read ANY of the legitimate research material produced over the last 50 years! That's a declaration of self inflicted ignorance. BTW, no one is "entitled" to their opinion. What we can say is that you may be entitled to an 'informed opinion' as long as you can support it with an empirical argument. If you fail at that, as you've done here, you make yourself useless to the topic.
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Robert James Ruhnke
By and large LGBTQ+ isn’t a religion. Sure. However, there are faiths within the new age and pagan realms which support LGBTQ+ as being part of sacred divine. If Christians can worship a torture device and a tortured man as their god, I think LGBTQ+ can chalk their inherent nature to some form of divinity.
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Lawrence Pearce
She is making the claim that her sex books are "religious books" that are protected free speech and should be brought into the classroom to indoctrinate children. If she wins, then she will have opened the door for every teacher to bring their "religious books" into the public school classrooms... and she probably doesn't want that scenario, so what is her REAL goal?
Could it be possible that she wants to join the female teachers in this Youtube video? "Dozens of Female Teachers Arrested for Allegedly Having Sex with Students" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggrwtv27Rh0
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Robert James Ruhnke
Spare me your gross nonsense, Pearce. Could it be your gladly lie or fall for lies in order to make a point. I find it sad you’re one those goobers who feels it necessary to drag out someone’s sex to make a point.
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Lawrence Pearce
After working with the ACLU and legal experts for years, I have the legal experience to tell you what police and judges say about child molesters, groomers and religions in public schools.
Not even the ACLU will defend a priest, minister or teacher who grooms students to be molested, so spare me your "gross nonsense" Ruhnke.
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Robert James Ruhnke
I’m aware that our system has its in plain sight predators, who are judges, teachers, officers of the law, advocates, and religious clergy. You’re missing the part where a majority are cis Christian white men. I know what they say about them. This isn’t a case of grooming or molesting, Pearce. After you on sparing me of your misinformation and projection. Again.
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ServantOfJudgement
You see Colleen, no matter how woke a Christian is willing to go, no matter how many biblical principles you're willing to let go of, you can't go woke enough untill you lay down the cross all together.
Jesus has marked the lgbtqia++map mantra a sin clear as crystal.
These materials do not belong in our schools. I've noticed you're the first one to reliably condemn biblical teachings in school while praising lgbt2qia++map "lifestyles" teaching in school.
Read Romans then Corinthians1 Christian sister.
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Dan Anderson
Servant - Are you refering to Romans 1:26-30? Sad for you that it has nothing to do with LGBTQ. It was supposedly the rejection of an ancient fertility ritual to the goddess Diana. This celebration worked its participants into a frenzy to the point that it would end in an orgy. Nothing about it has to do with people of the same gender.
1Corinthians 1:9-10? Look at the KJV1611. The term 'homosexual' is not in it as those who will not enter the kingdom of heaven. That is a fairly recent addition to later versions. So much for not changing the Word of God, not one jot, not one tittle.
Where did Jesus say ANYTHING about the LGBTQ issue?
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ServantOfJudgement
Dunno, men lusting after one another fits the bill for being homosexual. I've lusted after women well enough to know what the word means.
Corinth as you point out was the center of sexual immorality. There men also behaved and acted as women like the new morality of 2024 has brought us. Plenty think it's new to be a transvestite (transgender) but it's not. We created new and exciting ways to define the same old sin. Given it rainbow flag and rainbow hair in a rainbow month.
When men act as women, take the woman's role in a relationship with a man and so on, the Bible says no to that. You might not like it, you don't have to agree with it and neither do I but we can't say the bible is not opposed to it.
The word of the Bible is the word of Jesus. If Paul says no to something like drunkenness, we can put it down that Jesus said as much. Same as with the old testament.
A Christian that drinks to drunkenness is playing with fire. Same with a Christian homosexual. Both may be received by Jesus, I don't know. He's forgiving enough and merciful enough for sure. Both are taking chances, that I do know.
If it's not a that's Christian doing these things, who cares? I sure don't.
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Dan Anderson
Servant - Are you saying that Paul was the echo of Jesus?
Given that Paul NEVER met Jesus on the road to Damascus or elsewhere, that is rather a far-fetched concept, IMHO.
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Lawrence Pearce
True. Paul never met Jesus, nor did he meet any of the 12 apostles! He admits that after his "conversion" he went out into the desert so he could hear voices telling him what to do.
Paul deliberately avoided asking Peter, John or any of the disciples about Jesus, which is strange. Paul would have never been ordained as a minister in any Christian denomination today because he never went through the proper channels of religious instruction to become an evangelical preacher! 🤣
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ServantOfJudgement
Indeed, the Bible says otherwise Dan. You can doubt the Bible fair enough but you can't doubt it says Paul met Jesus the Christ and downloaded Gods will concerning the things he spoke of.
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Dan Anderson
Servant - Yes, the Bible does say that, however, the timing is way off.
One quick question: Why should everyone take the Bible as literal reporting? Jonah swallowed by a whale/great fish? The largest of the cetaceans have a throat opening about the size of a basketball. The exodus was fact? The story of Moses trying to get home with the myriad people following him? According to Google, walking from Egypt to Israel would take only about 100 days, yet he took 40 years? Also, how could his followers smelt gold to make the Golden Calf?
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ServantOfJudgement
Dan,
I agree some things in the Bible might appear far fetched or even impossible especially when reading the document from a purely human perspective. That said, we've been given the power of imagination and of things that are not yet but could be. Even to the point if we delivered a modern manufacturing book to the 12th century it'd be considered ridiculous and impossible yet we know it's all old news. Sir Issac Newton said "If the Bible is true, one day man will travel faster that 50mph". He was ridiculed by atheists at the time for such a foolish claim yet today we've traveled at 25KPH. Today we split or combine the atom, even create new elements outside of nature(hinting of mankind's supernatural origin)
If mankind can create and perform such wonders, why is it so hard for God?
People have been swallowed by whales and survived, they come out in rough shape. If we must prove that story true to satisfy ourselves, we'll easily find another one to doubt and levy against the bibles authenticity. For what it's worth, I don't think Jonah made it out alive and neither did the fish. When they split the swollen belly of the fish to see it's contents, the found a disfigured man raised from the dead with a warning from God. Repent.
Again, even though we bring people back from the dead all day long, we doubt God can. I wonder what we know that he doesn't.
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Daniel Gray
Yes he did he referred back to Leviticus 18:22
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Dan Anderson
Daniel - Leviticus 18:22 was a statement of the condemnation by the Levites against Canaanite use of male temple prostitutes in their religious ceremonies. (It helps to learn the historicity and culture of these times.)
It was not about two people who care for each other who happen to be of the same gender.
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Daniel Gray
No sorry but you are wrong. It is very clear what it means and there is no way you can spin it in another direction and neither 30 verses above it nor 30 verses below it does it say that or implies that it was against the Levites or the Canaanites. Nice try but major fail
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Lawrence Pearce
The female teacher lost her argument when she claimed that her sex books are "religious books" and should be allowed in public school classrooms. If she wins, she will have opened the door for every teacher to bring their "religious books" into their classrooms to indoctrinate children.
Or she may have an ulterior motive like these female teachers on Youtube: "Dozens of Female Teachers Arrested for Allegedly Having Sex with Students" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggrwtv27Rh0
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Dan Anderson
It appears educators who have empathy for their students are on the way out. How sad that teachers can not teach what they need to do.
When do parents have better experience and knowledge regarding teaching their children? Most parents have absolutely no idea what is necessary to be taught and how to go about it.
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Daniel Gray
And considering the crap they want to teach, neither do they.
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Lawrence Pearce
The only thing parents and teachers should be teaching children about sex is this: "If any child, teen or adult touches your genitals or wants to take photos of your genitals, call the police at 911 and report them." Period. End of story. Anything else is grooming of children by predators.
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Robert James Ruhnke
They already do, Pearce. This is common knowledge. Teaching children they can be different such as being LGBTQ+ isn’t grooming or predatory. Your lying and manipulative propaganda is predatory too.
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Michael Hunt
I'm very curious to see this play out in the courts. It's gonna be a real test of religious freedom in America.
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Daniel Gray
How Mike? Being Gay is not a religion nor can anyone ever think it is so it wont get very far in any case, maybe last long enough for the judge to stop laughing his butt off at the stupidity of the claim
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Lawrence Pearce
If the lbgtq's want to claim it's a religion, then they should be banned from schools, just like all other religions are banned from public schools.
She walked into the trap set for her by the "Freedom from Religion" group! LOL
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Lawrence Pearce
The laws are clear against predators of children in our schools. They are being arrested, indicted and sentenced to prison. There is no religious justification for what any predatory priest, preacher or teacher does to children.
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Lawrence Pearce
The laws are clear against predators of children in our schools. They are being arrested, indicted and sentenced to prison. There is no religious justification for what any predatory priest, preacher or teacher does to children.
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Dan Anderson
Lawrence - your duplicate posts have nothing to do with religious freedom.
Just because a teacher TEACHES about LGBT issues does not mean they are a predator. Unless you think anyone teaching about the days of the 2nd World War makes the teacher a Nazi or Russian, you may not know anything about teaching.
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Lawrence Pearce
I deleted one of the duplicate posts, but it looks like both got approved and printed. 🤔
It's obvious that some teachers are trying to bring their "religious beliefs" (her words) into the public school classrooms so they can indoctrinate or groom children. Could that be a possibility in this case?
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Dan Anderson
Lawrence - almost impossibly not.
Why do you think teaching about humanity an indoctrination or grooming?
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Lawrence Pearce
Elementary school students should legally be provided with only one message: "If any child, teen or adult touches you in the area between your legs, report them immediately to police by calling 911."
Sexual books and videos provided for school children to read or view that make it seem to be okay with people touching the genitals of other people is a well known tactic of groomers.
Groomers are arrested, indicted and go to prison every week, so I'm not sure why you seem to be defending any of their tactics.
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Lawrence Pearce
There's a big difference between teaching children about military history versus the personalized groomer tactic to tell the children it's okay if some teen or adult touches their genitals.
I'm surprised. Are you defending the most obvious strategy of child groomers for molestations in the public school classrooms? Ask any police officer what he or she thinks of what that teacher is doing.
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Let God do what he must to do what is write ,It is in his hands,we know God doesn't like people like that.