Transgender locker room policies are again under the spotlight after a recent incident at a Planet Fitness gym. According to reports, a Florida woman (who has been identified only as "Mrs. H") entered the locker room at her local gym to change for a workout. Once inside, she encountered an individual identified as Jordan Rice who claimed to be a transgender woman. The gym proudly sports a "judgment free" policy that allows its members to use the locker room that corresponds to their gender identity.
However, witnesses suspected Rice was a fraud. They noticed Rice hovering next to a mirror near the women's shower area for over an hour pretending to apply makeup while stealing glances at unclothed women. Mrs. H, who is a survivor of attempted rape, felt extremely uncomfortable after observing this behavior.
She confronted Rice, who refused to leave the locker room. The situation escalated when Rice called the police, alleging sexual harassment. A formal complaint was filed, and Planet Fitness decided to revoke Mrs. H's membership for violating their policies.
Fighting Back
Mrs. H has since retained legal counsel, and her lawyers sent a scathing letter to Planet Fitness demanding the gym reinstate her membership and revise their locker room policies to "prevent blatant sex-based harassment by males in the women's lockers and restrooms."
The letter alleges that the Mrs. H did nothing wrong, as the transgender individual was acting suspiciously and made no attempt to appear as a woman.
"He was observed to have entered and exited the locker room, wearing the same clothes, and had not showered or changed," the letter states. "Despite a male employee observing that Mr. Rice's behavior was 'over the top,' staff did not intervene and ask him to finish his business, but permitted him to monopolize the women's locker room."
Further, it points out this was not a first offense: "This is not the only incident with Mr. Rice known to Planet Fitness. Another woman reported that he exposed his naked body to her in the women's locker room at this location."
A Messy Situation
In a statement following the incident, the organization wrote: "Planet Fitness is committed to creating a non-intimidating, welcoming environment for all of our members and their safety and privacy is our top priority. Under our gender identity non-discrimination policy, members and guests may use all gym facilities based on their sincere self-reported gender identity."
However, critics point to incidents such as the one described above as proof of how easily this open-minded policy can be exploited by twisted people determined to spy on the opposite sex or worse.
This entire saga has placed Planet Fitness in a tight spot. The gym wants to provide a welcoming environment to transgender individuals who legitimately feel uncomfortable in locker rooms and bathrooms belonging to a gender they don't identify as. But at the same time, Planet Fitness has a legal obligation to ensure the safety of all its members.
Although transgender rights have expanded markedly in recent years, society still seems to be stuck on certain issues such as transgender bathroom policies and proper pronoun usage.
Is there a solution to be found here? If so, what is it?
136 comments
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Michael Mangold
Gender is binary. Deal with it. Planet Fitness now finds themselves on the defensive end of political correctness. If you include everyone, you exclude someone. I may just join PF myself so I can gaze at nude women in the locker room. Is that so bad?
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Lori
Don't say that.
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Carol W Waldenburg
Ditto to Lori's answer!
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Stephanie Willey
Gender is NOT binary. The REAL science and medical facts are very clear at this point.
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Wanda
Gender is binary if a person lives, dresses and believes they are that gender. Then and only then should they be in one locker room/restroom versus another. If a man dressed as a man and self-identifies as a woman "that day" is science based, then it is junk science. That man should NOT be in the women's locker room.
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Stephanie Willey
Gender is NOT binary. It is scientific and medical FACT. Go educate yourself.
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Kim Morris
Nope. It's a construct based on physiology only. Our minds, our consciousness is who we are. And how ever one identifies with themselves internally IS WHO THEY ARE. So Mr. Mangold, you deal with that... Kim Morris, MSW, D.Div.
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Chris Durham
There are only two genders. Physiology is firm on this. If a person feels their mental gender is incompatible with their physical gender then there is a mismatch between hardware and software. Changing the appearance of the hardware does not change it at the cellular level. Maybe look to correcting the malfunctioning software.
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Dr. Joseph A. Anderson
Sorry Kim, here Chris has sort of the right idea in a nerdy type of way.
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preacher richard h.
SORRY KIM The truth is We should be treating these Disorders and Mental conditions as they were in the past with therapy an medication.
Just because we can do Insane medical procedures these days Doesn't make it the right course of action for a Delusional patient , Thinking they r something they are CLEARLY NOT.
It is inhumane,
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Dr. Joseph A. Anderson
It's about choice Pastor Richard. Yes, there are some that have mental issues but if they are going to make the choice of doing what is right according to scripture vs. trying to satisfy their own choice of fantisy, then right will trump choice every time.
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Dr. Joseph A. Anderson
Sorry Mike, I don't know what planet you are from, but you are 100% delusional and wrong.
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AK Coniferious
if you join a gym with the specific intent of gazing at nude women you are a sexual predator.
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James
Go caveman .Pee in holes in the ground. Who needs civilization!
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Naya
James, I had to laugh at this, I live off-grid and pee in the woods.
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Lori
I agree that there are many twisted people that will take advantage of just about any situation they can, which has nothing to do with transgender. This is about people with psychological issues. I suppose the only way to remedy the problem is to have non-gender individual showers with changing space, or if you have concerns, don't go to the gym. I had a guy expose himself to me on the street, but it didn't stop me from taking walks. I did contact the police. That's about all that can be done. --it happens.
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Janice A Ellery
true if this guy dressed like a woman and was respectful, nobody would know he was transgender. People can also be harassed by unwanted same sex behavior. A small gender neutral bathroom and shower may be the solution.The "me too" movement should ensure that nobody should be sexually harassed or assaulted.
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Kim Morris
Wow: "this guy dressed like a woman." Sweetie, that's Transvestite, NOT transgender. That person is not a "guy." SHE is a woman 100% inside. Having a sick doesn't make you a "man." Kim Morris, MSW, D.Div.
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Carol W Waldenburg
Careful, we don't know if the man identifies as a transvestite or is a crossdresser - it can get dicey here - you have to go to the person . . .
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Kim Morris
Being transgender is not an illness folks! Kim Mortis, MSW, D.Div.
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Lori
Very right!
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preacher richard h.
Its a Sickness of the Mind an can be treated with Therapy n Medication to Bring the patient back to REALITY
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Chris
Being a religious zealot is a sickness of the mind too. We should treat it with medication and therapy to bring the zealot, the religious adherent who refuses to consider any other possible truth but the one they've been taught to believe, back to the land of reality.
Ignoring the truth doesn't make it go away. Saying it's wrong because you don't want to accept it doesn't make it so, Richard. Just because you find it icky doesn't mean you can ban it or force people into some half-baked "therapy" to make them more like you.
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preacher richard h.
Your answer is that 80% of the world has a Sickness of the mind. an that's a belief in GOD? LOL So Its okay to be a Black guy an Walk around Dressing n pretending to be Chinese is what your saying basically.
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Dr. Joseph A. Anderson
Stated very well Lori.
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William Waugh
It could help to have transgender members of a club sign into the facility under penalty of law if fould to be a lying peeping f--k-ng tom.
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Rhonda M
Agreed
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Kim Morris
And thay, friends, is discrimination. Kim Morris, MSW, D.Div.
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Dr. Joseph A. Anderson
Too a point Kim. What about the rights of the women who are women and the men who are men. Aren't they being discriminated against?
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preacher richard h.
Your right Dr.Jo they do have the right not to be OGGLED by the Mentally ill,
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John Owens
This transgender locker room and bathroom stuff is an idiotic fad which serves no purpose but controversy. I won't take any business to any place that does that.
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Gabe
good because I really don't feel like being in a locker room with someone that needs to believe in an imaginary parental figure watching them at all times or else he would commit all sorts of terrible things. I mean, what happens when you realize god isn't real?
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Wanda
Really, Ben? That's your second negative and disrespectful reply in this post. If you can't defend your position without snarky attacks, please take it elsewhere.
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John Owens
I tarred him pretty well before when he tried to "educate" me on a topic regarding biology and he tried to act like he was really smart for copying and pasting a bunch of references. I examined several and not ONE gave any credence to the position he was defending. When I posted the responses, he maintained abject silence, as did the one person who was telling me that Ben was making ME look stupid. Neither had any comments after I posted the analyses of the publications he mentioned. He tries to pretend he is deep and passionate, but he is shallow and contrived.
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Hoggdogg
Why should give up my weights for transgender there only should be 2 restrooms male and women's it lets the door too perverts
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Ruth
Lets use common sense. If you have a penis, you go to the male restroom/locker, if you have a vagina, you go to the ladies restroom/locker. If you are a transgender, you'll change to whichever restroom/locker you are going once you had the surgery.
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William P Wise
Yes!
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Fr. Omnius et Nihilius
Thank you, someone with common sense. Those who allow perverts to enter the wrong restrooms or locker rooms have that idiotic notion that if it walks like a duck...
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RMC
Well said. Why do so many people have such a hard time with common sense?
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Cynthia
I understand where you are coming from Ruth, but not everyone can afford gender reassignment surgery. I have a very close friend who is transgender and, though on the outside is female, complete with natural breast from the estrogen therapy and testosterone blockers, she was unable, until recently, to have her GRS due to finances. Women's bathrooms are equipped with stall for PRIVACY. Her going into a women's bathroom affects no-one. However, had she walked into a men's bathroom,she would have, most likely, been humiliated or possible attacked.
On the other hand, how would you feel if you walked into the women's bathroom and seen an obviously male individual standing in line for a stall? Women who transition to male and are taking testosterone can grow facial hair that can rival most cis-males. But they still have a vagina because the surgery for gender reassignment for trans males really isn't really available. The closest they can get is a double mastectomy and hormones. There have been surgical attempts, but they haven't been perfected, not to mention the cost.
Yes, common sense is in order and common sense should be used, but as many may know, common sense isn't so common. My common sense says if you appear female AND identify as female, then go to the women's loo. According to the article, he wasn't making any attempt to be female and should have been told to either suit up and work out or leave.
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Naya
Good comments. Throughout this whole this thread I keep asking myself how I would feel if ANYONE did this when I was using a locker room. It feels much more like a voyeurism issue and it would have made me freak out because of many, many, many me-too moments of my own. Having anyone in front of a mirror for an hour so they can "peep" at others is a whole different issue than transgender.
I don't care what toilet, outhouse or bush people use to pee. When I gotta go, any bathroom that's available is fine. Same for any other human. But, having some one just hang out for over an hour... anyone doing that is definitely not someone I would want to be alone with.
I have transgender friends, some have been through the battles and have the scars. Yes, all people deserve safety and respectt. I don't know a single trans person who would have made other women uncomfortable by this kind of behavior. This one person isn't the poster person for trans people. When people argue that not agreeing with this behavior is a strike against trans acceptance they are missing the point.
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ebufi
Double mastectomy and male hormone replacement, Castration and female hormone replacement, looks like nothing natural and healthy can come from it. What about taking a test of percentage of XX or XY chromosomes to see their chromosomal sex?, what about giving female hormones to women that think that they are men or give male hormones to men that think that they are women, wouldn't that be more physiologically? Would this change their mind?.
The health industry I doing a disservice to individuals with gender dysphoria that are mainly depressed and have the delusion that "changing" their gender is going to make them happy. What about their tendency to depression that makes a lot of transgender commit suicide, specially the ones that have the surgical operation. If you go to the doctor an say that you want to amputate an arm because it does not belong to your body, the doctor diagnose with Corporal dysphoria and will prescribe a psychotropic. If you say that you are a transgender and you want double mastectomy or a penis removal + castration, they would not think it twice. This is a plot for population control. It is an attack to human dignity.
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Lin Amendt
Wrong!!!!!!! I TEACH this stuff! You are all trying to be kind and knowledgeable, but you are not. Males that transgender to females cannot always afford to have the surgery to remove all vestiges of a penis. It shrinks under hormone treatment, but it can still be present. HOWEVER! Their mind is demonized and they are not interested in harassing women, and never were! News flash! You are next to transgender individuals every day of your life--you just don't know it! Signed: graduate degree in reproductive physiology.
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Carol W Waldenburg
Thank you Lin! It is such an INDIVIDUAL thing and you cannot know what a person's story is, we should never assume . . .
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Jessica Brown
How does one get the 60+ thousand dollars to get this surgery?
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Dr. Tinsley Keefe
I’m transgender! I’ve had 6 surgeries and have also had my name and gender legally changed....everyone who is truly transgender just wants to use the bathroom in peace and in a safe environment....we have the highest rate of homicide, suicide and sexual assault against us...shame on those “ministers” above who are so bigoted!
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Tabitha
Exactly! As am I. I actually don’t use the term “transgender” as I don’t need a label. I prefer to just say I’m a woman who was born with a birth defect that I’m working to medically correct. That said. I dress as a female, conduct myself as a female, and live my life that way. Obviously I would not be safe using the mens room, in our phobic society. When I go to the ladies room, the only thing I’m interested in is the toilet, sink and mirror. I get in and get out. (Most) of the other ladies at work have been very good and accepting of me. You’ll have scammers in every situation. The rest of is just want to exist
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Carol W Waldenburg
Thank you Tinsely, God be with you.
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Rev. Brien
Solution is simple. It is not hard to deal with stupid. 3 bathrooms, male, female, and the "I do not know" bathroom.. That covers everything. You can name it what ever the hell you want to name it. And let me remind you that bathrooms are cheaper than the never ending law suites that this will turn into.
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Alicia
Herein lies the problem: Self-identifying. If one LOOKS like a man, he should use the men's locker rooms and bathrooms. If the person LOOKS like a woman, that person should use the women's Locker Room and bathrooms. This "self-identifying" is ridiculous. Any man can then claim he identifies as a woman, so is allowed into the women's areas. No.
I'm a firm believer in transgender rights, but a line needs to be drawn. "Self-identifying" leaves the door too wide open for perverts.
I'd also like to bring up that no women are "self-identifying" to get into the men's locker rooms. Use common sense, Planet Fitness.
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Lori
The real problem is that you can't always tell who is what. My niece is transgender and you would never know it to look at her. So what are you going to do, make every female show their woo-hoo before entering the shower area? I'm guessing Michael M. will sign up for the job.
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Minister Michelle Rhodes
It is 2018 i can't believe all the people are still being like it is the 1900'sand crap........ If people don't like transgenders, bi's, gays and lesbians don't leave home...... We are all over the place buy your own workout equipment and workout at home there are 3 bathrooms all over the place now women's, men's, and families...... Justput in a 3rd bathroom and call it good everyone group has fakes an pervs in it that doesn't make EVERYONE in the same race bad people as a lesbian myself and a minister i don't judge anyone and think everyone's kind is bad because of one bad seed grow up and jump to the 2018 life now and stop living in the years for which you were not even thought of yet
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Stephanie Willey
I know several women who shared a restroom and a locker room with a transgender woman just last week, and do you know what happened ? NOTHING !!!! Nothing at all.
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Lori
And there you have it. That's usually how it is. There's nothing anyone can do about the occasional sicko's that are out there everywhere. Our fears make things soooo much bigger than they really are.
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RMC
Insanity. This is what you get when you give in to foolish political correctness and it is bound to happen again and again. The perverts are going to take advantage of that foolishness.
If you were born with and still retain a penis ---> men's locker room. Simple.
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D Huggins Wolfe
Funny, how such a simplistic AND sensible solution is/will be considered non--PC and offensive to those very ones who delight in offending others, on the regular.
Would that there be a solution, yours is obviously it...
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Paul Brown
She did nothing wrong. Better safe than sorry.
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Dawg
I think everyone has now missed the point of the article while you all - yes ALL - show your bigotry. Everyone, trans people included, say there are sickos out there. The point of the article is that the ‘sicko’ was called out. And because we have become such a hateful and intolerant society BECAUSE of political correctness, the person who did the calling out was the person kicked out. NOT the sicko. Take the person above who said someone exposed himself on a sidewalk while she was taking a walk. She reported it. Her response is “it didn’t stop me from taking a walk.” Well guess what. A true comparison is that Mrs H reported it and now she IS BANNED from going for a walk. Planet Fitness, in an effort to not end up with public shaming and pickets at its door did not look out for its members’ safety. Each case needs to be viewed - and not turned into some hateful debate on religion - individually. Mrs H has been wronged. The sicko got away with it. And now there is more ammunition for the kind of fodder we are seeing written here from all sides. By the way. If this is a site dedicated to religious and spiritual thought and openenness, why are there so many trolls on here who are being hateful and hurtful to people of faith?
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Rev. Rose
Amen!
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Naya
Amen Dawg. The vitriol and defensiveness is disappointing.
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Carol W Waldenburg
Yes, thank you for the clear summary.
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RMC
Allowing men into the women's shower at a gym. Hmm, how could that ever lead to problems? Wake up people.
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D Huggins Wolfe
Exactly! Sadly, it's too much common sense for many. Oftentimes it's quite a bit easier to keep one's head in the proverbial sand.
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Jeff
Just because a man dresses like a woman does not make him a woman. Want to be a woman, then become one...oh wait cant do that...our chromosomes don't change. Even surgery cannot change the basic rules of nature. Weird thing is... I know a couple of trans men, who dress as women and they date...women. How odd. I just shake my head. Our cities are becoming Sodom and Gomorrah. God will judge and it will not be good.
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D Huggins Wolfe
Indeed!
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Elder: Eugene E Andy
I'll say this, be very careful and vigilant know your surrounding, there's plenty of ignorant souls in this world.
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Robin Call
The solution is to put in a one person shower room/bathroom in stead of these group shower / bathrooms and make it for anyone who feels uncomfortable in a regular shower/bathroom to use
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Mag Riada
This happened in 2015. What is the motive in dragging this back up? Just clicks?
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Robin Call
I think it was discriminatory of this gym to ban this woman and revoke her membership. If they had several complaints against this alleged transgender person, they should have investigated and then went from there. They should have attendants in the bathrooms/shower rooms to avoid these situations
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Lin Amendt
You all need a LOT OF EDUCATION IN THIS SUBJECT! You are all just giving opinions. Go get some psychology and physiology books and read about the truth. Sheesh! Such ignorance!
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Carol W Waldenburg
DITTO THAT!!!
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Bill Fox
The vast majority of humans are either XX or XY in gender. There are exceptions, such as Klinefelter Syndrome, XXY, XXXY, XYY, etc. But the genders are still based on male and female. There are no living examples of non-X, such as YY. Genetics and biology prove there are only two human genders.
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Carol W Waldenburg
Ahh, Bill, what do you say to true hermaphrodites?
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Stephanie Willey
Bill, you state a truth when you say that most people are XX or XY genetically, but XX and XY are NOT gender, XX or XY ONLY determine body sex, and there are MANY exceptions. Sex (your genitalia), gender, and sexuality are NOT the same thing and, as shown clearly in the best research over the past 30 years, have little or nothing to do with each other. There are more that two genders and there always has been. The Talmud and the Tora recognize and describe six genders. All of the writers and editors of the Bible chose to leave this bit of critical information out. Bill, YOUR gender AND your sexuality exist in your brain, NOT between your legs. This is medical and scientific fact.
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preacher richard h.
s exactly WHY it is a MENTAL DISORDER THANK YOU
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Stephanie Willey
Is your own inner sense of your maleness a mental disorder ?
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preacher richard h.
No it is Not. , But if I had thoughts or actions towards other Men then it would be, or if I were SO gay that I wore Dresses and Wanted an operation then I would Expect Loved ones to Put me in a WARD under observation.
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Stephanie Willey
Preacher Richard H, I'm sorry to have to say that your lack of comprehension of the scientific and medical facts of the subject is incredible and frankly painful for me to endure. The validity of your sense of self is no more and no less real or right than mine or anyone else's.
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preacher richard h.
Let me guess Your a Liberal ,under 35 an was brainwashed in school to accept social issues an deviant behavior as Scientific Fact. am I right so far Believe it or not People have been cured of these disorders. Before mutilation occurs.
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Stephanie Willey
Actually I'm a centrist, retired, 67, and voted for Bush first time. However my classically centrist political and social views in today's far right leaning political arena appear to "those" as Liberal. It seems to me that these days my strong belief in things like The Declaration of Independence (... all are created equal and endowed by their creator ...), AND the Sermon On the Mount set me clearly apart and alienate me from the most vocal in our current political discourse. I remain, none the less steadfast in my belief.
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preacher richard h.
Christians today are pushing the envelope an Supporting social issues against the Teachings of Jesus and the HOLY SPIRIT
Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate (Matthew 19:4-6). GODS WILL 1 man 1 women marriage.
, Jesus did explicitly define marriage as being between one man and one woman. The ruse to suggest that Jesus approves of homosexuality because He never expressly condemned it cannot be sustained logically, nor can it be defended on any type of moral grounds. The person who presumes to claim to be a Christian, and yet supports homosexuality, misunderstands the teachings of Christ and needs to repent and stop approving of a perverted, destructive practice that Jesus condemns
Gays Transvestites its all Sin. JESUS FORGIVES but GO n SIN NO MORE.
Followers of CHRIST aren't to Forgive or Condone Sinful acts we are to pray for the Sinners an avoid them unless we are drawn to the Evils of those who are Living out of the Grace of GOD
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Raven
Except what the report here failed to actknowledge is that the woman was NOT banned from the Gym for "reporting" a Transwoman, according to the original article tha was released several months ago.... she was banned for openly BOYCOTTING the Gym in front of the Gym because they refused to revoke the Transwoman's membership simply because she is trans (which is against the law by the way). This woman broke her contract by slandering the gym, that was her fault. It really had nothing to do with the Transwoman, and everything to do with the fact that this woman here broke her contract. https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/07/living/feat-planet-fitness-transgender-member/index.html How odd that she was the only one to complain about this transwoman in an entire gym filled with Women... seems a bit overdramatic personally. Also, as we are on a Monastery Site.... what happened to "Only God May Pass True Judgment?" This applies to many different religions, and for those where who are Christian and Catholic. WOW.... When exactly did Jesus say (while he was busy tending to the lepers, the thieves, the hookers, the poor, the criminals, and the outcasts) that we should purposely reject a specific someone because of how they are? .... Pretty sure that is exactly the opposite that Jesus stood for.
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Raven
What this report fails to actknowledge is that according to the original news article (which is years old), the woman was NOT banned for "reporting" a transgender woman, the woman was banned for breaking her contract by openly slandering and boycotting the Planet Fitness Gym right in front of Gym itself. It really has nothing to do with the Transwoman at all, other than the one woman slandering the gym because the Gym Refused to ban the Transwoman (which is illegal by the way). Also, according to the original report the Transwoman there was no mention of "spying" on the other ladies, simply that the one woman walked in, saw the Transwoman there and "freaked". Funny how according to this report, that in a gym FILLED with woman, only ONE saw a problem with a transwoman and complained? If ALL of these woman REALLY felt bothered and unsafe, wouldn't they ALL have reported it rather than just one? This is a Monastery site, so what happened to "ONLY God may pass true judgment"? Wow... there are a lot of Gods here posting in this forum... or the more likely, a lot of blasphemers. For all of the Christians and Catholics here posting, just curious... but when exactly was it that Jesus stopped helping the Lepers, the Thieves, the Hookers, the Poor, the Criminals, and The Outcasts to say that we need to start discriminating against a certain kind of people because of how they are? Seriously? Pretty sure Jesus did the exact opposite of what most of you are doing.
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Gwendolyn Lord
A third bathroom stigmatizes someone who wants to represent as a specific gender. What I don't understand is why the person who was creeped out did not go right up to the person being pervy and say "You need to leave. You are making us uncomfortable!" Screw reporting it to Planet Fitness people (who clearly dropped the ball, no pun intended, on this situation.) If it bothered this woman enough she could have called police as well. As to trans people....Most are afraid of harassment, and would prefer to be discrete and just blend into the group that they identify as. Not perverted or stalkers at all. I don't care who is in the locker room or bathroom with me, as long as they mind their business and conduct themselves appropriately. What is inside their underwear is their business. No one should be parading around naked anyway. Towels folks! Change and get out of there!
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kc
This article is written with bias. The facts don't use emotions.
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Charles Jenkins
Gender identity is under fire as usual. I smell a set up with this story. Someone wanting a few minutes of media. We all have shared a bathroom and locker room with a transgender person. Time to stop judging others that don’t fit your choices.
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Oh Mo
Holy cow! We finally have absolute proof that men enter women's locker rooms under the transgender guise only to prey upon innocent women! Well, maybe not absolute since the person only "appeared" to be looking. No evidence the TG attempted to touch or even talk to other gym members in that locker room. In fact, every bit of information provided in this article is hearsay - unsubstantiated.
Could this be - GASP! - just a couple religious zealots plotting to defame an innocent TG?
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Lori
Sometimes they do that. Religious zealots will throw all kinds of things at you in an attempt to secure their own minds. That's all it is.
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Jose Soto
I know this may sound like a dumb question and if I offend anyone, please forgive me. It is not my intentions. But when does a transgender person become a transgender person officially? Is it when they feel they are different or when they start making changes to their bodies? And if you haven't made any physical changes to your body surgically or otherwise, then you should be required to use the appropriate restrooms until you do. I never understood the phobia but as long as no one touches or makes any unwanted advances, by all means look all you want.
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Ceri Lewis
Looking (staring) is visual molestation. So yes it's an invasion of privacy, no any different than planting a camera. As far as your question, transition is very fluid. It begins when you start to change your appearance to match your identity. Some people make rapid and very noticeable progress some less so for various reasons. Some will never be able to achieve a passable appearance. This doesnt negate their identity. It also doesnt include the many non binary people who are androdgenous. The main point is. Regardless of your identity, a person should use the restroom they are most comfortable in. Even a cisgender female in a womans restroom is a criminal if she is spying or doing inappropriate things. If in fact this trans claiming person was spying on changing women, she should be prosecuted. It's bad behavior that is already illegal that should be the issue here, not a persons identity and using whatever restroom.
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Ceri Lewis
I am a trans woman. My name and gender have been legally changed. I still haven't had bottom surgery, that's scheduled this fall. I'm also a devout Christian, and an active leader in my church. AND a Planet Fitness member. The most important thing regarding bathrooms is that anyone peeking and visually molesting others is a criminal. There are already laws against that. So if a woman is peeking at other women, it's as bad as if it was a male. If a trans woman is doing inappropriate things it should be prosecuted the same. I have many trans male friends. If they were to go I to the restroom with your daughter you would freak out. Just as you would if a trans female were in the mens restroom. It's appropriate for them to use the restroom they identify with, and present as. The funny thing is, I've been at events where all restrooms are genderless. Walking in, you see men next to women and children, all, washing their hands after using one of the stalls granting them the privacy to do their business. Nobody has any issues. Punish the criminals. Not those just living their lives.
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Lin Amendt
Thanks you so much for an insightful, sane response! All the best, Lin
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Lori
I totally agree.
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James
A christian? in Various parts of biblical writings speak of defying the temple I(the body). 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 touches on this topic. I shall ASK. Is surgery / modification / mutilation a form of defying they temple?
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Jose Soto
Ceri Lewis, thank you very much for educating me. I've been to many countries myself where bathrooms were shared by whomever needed to use it. I want saying that it was ok to spy on everyone, but that it doesn't bother me if anyone watches me. I doubt that would happen tho, lol. In Europe the public pools, beaches, lakes, parks are either nude or topless areas. Everyone is entitled to their privacy as well. I don't like pushing my beliefs on anyone, but simply saying you feel like a woman and want to use the lady's room for pleasure is wrong. I've been to many sporting events here in the US where women use the men's room because the lines are too long in the women's bathroom. That is different than being in a dressing room or shower. Perverts are a dime a dozen and they will find their way around anything to get their pleasure. Once again, thank you very much and Good bless you and good luck.
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Jeff D
If you have a pecker, men's room. If you have a cooter, ladies room. Period.
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Lin Amendt
You are all very stupid and very ignorant. No one is "butchered" to look like a woman. It is done so well, most gynecologist cannot tell the difference! Wake up and educate yourselves, you cretins.
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preacher richard h.
Its a CLEAR SIGN of Mental Illness Thinking your something Your NOT. Just because they can operate Doesn't Fix the problem or Make it Right.
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Jerome Shadwick
There is no such thing as Transgender. Doctors nor Scientists have not found a way to change the X y chromosome. Trying to change one's gender is like saying GOD YOU MADE A MISTAKE AND I'M GOING TO CORRECT IT. I believe in God. The God of Moses and his forefathers. Ijs
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Stephanie Willey
Jerome, you are mistaken. Gender, the person YOU identify yourself to be, is NOT the same as X and Y chromosomes. Your body sex IS determined by chromosomes and is determined ac conception. Ones individual identity, gender, and sexuality are all higher brain functions and only begin to develop in the brain of the fetus early in the 3rd trimester, the 6th month of gestation, and that development is not complete until well after puberty begins. This is known, proven medical science.
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preacher richard h.
In the BRAIN, This is what I've been saying so you can see it is a Mental Disorder. We have a Choice Your choices shouldn't Disrupt a Whole Society Because gays n Trany's CHOOSE not to Conform to Society
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James
The brain? Its not overtly a clear cut "mental" issue. The symbiotic life that is w/ in all humans that may be 51 % of the gender conflict. Yes, gender is assigned (in part) by the "D" levels in ones partner at conception which in turns sets the X / Y. This is not an X/Y issue. Gender conflict is 51% in the 2nd brain (The 2/3 part of humans that is not human) and how it communicates w/ the brain in the head. Being gays / straight is not a clear cut conscious "choice" when looking at in core of the conflicts drive.
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James
Male, Female? A room for both? Its in the price of the memberships. Ok, his, hers, mix (or family). 3 rooms. Issue resolved. Also, have a spot on the application / intake forms what gender they ID'ed as when joining & make sure they use said amenities in the selected rooms.
Leave the bathrooms as they were. Anyone can claim they are transgender and there is no way to prove it. As there is with male and female. This is not discrimination as they have access to a bathroom already. It is not like they are not allowed to use the CORRECT bathroom. It could be a child molester or rapist claiming to be transgender we do not know. Better to be safe than sorry. Is it not the left who keeps telling us if it saves one life we should do it.
Okie doke, Jef. That means you want this trans man in the women's locker room with your partner and female friends and relatives: https://www.google.com/search?q=trans+man&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj68YPu5bjcAhXqzVkKHUcqDc8Q_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=953#imgrc=dYJj5FHROeJ_VM:
Was this a TransMAN? They present as male and would not be in a woman's locker room. I think you are all confused.
Lin, you are confused. It is a trans man. He was born a woman and has a vagina. Would you be comfortable walking into a ladies restroom and seeing him there because he’s forced to be because of that?
Tabitha Feller.
You better read this again, it's from the article. " Further, it points out this was not a first offense: “This is not the only incident with Mr. Rice known to Planet Fitness. Another woman reported that he exposed his naked body to her in the women’s locker room at this location.” Mr Rice has man parts.
Why is it some people think being transgender means they must be I'll or confused or they are perverted. Really? Every human being is the same flesh and blood, no matter the physical or mental configuration. The woman who complained made a snap judgement that is not necessarily applicable. How did she know the person she complained about was trans? Did she ask? Trans male to female folks do "study" how women act. My guess is this is this is a HUGE misunderstanding and I hope the upset woman will calm down and go get another gym membership elsewhere. I support Plant Fitness action 100% because they are not judgemental and will protect members rights in their facilities. To the woman complaining: sweetie, she won't hurt you or anyone else. She's the same you inside.... With love and hope and sending healing energy to all involved. KIm Morris, MSW, D.Div.
The letter alleges that the Mrs. H did nothing wrong, "as the transgender individual was acting suspiciously and made no attempt to appear as a woman."
If you think A Man cant tell the difference between a Women an a Man that had been Butchered into looking like a women than You ARE Confused. There are 2 Genders Man an Woman. that's it.
pastor richard h, You are wrong. I suggest you go and educate yourself to the historic, scientific and medical realities of gender.
Stephanie, Pastor Richard H. is 100% on what scripture teaches in the Bible. In Genesis God created a man and a woman and not 2 women or 2 men. He created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. I myself am a Trans M-T-F that came back to my birth gender of male. There was a lot of abuse and no acceptance or respect living the opposite gender that I was born into. Today I don't judge others for their choices even though I hate the sin and not the sinner. The Eunuchs of the Bible were created for the benefit of men and not God. During His time here on earth Jesus taught about marriage being of 1 man and 1 woman, so what Richard is talking about is scripturally based. If you do some real research on the topic you will see.
Dr. Joseph Anderson, the scriptures in the Bible defining only two genders is wrong. Even the ancient Jews recognized and celebrated six well defined genders, but THAT was conveniently left out of the Holy Roman Catholic Christian Bible.
Argue all you want with me, but science and medical fact remain on my side.
STEPH
Not having a Higher power is SO Freeing ,Do what you want when you want . But there are ONLY 2 GENDERS MAN n WOMAN I have YET to see anything else come out..
Besides you can cut n sew all you WANT BUT you Still have an X or a Y Chromosome that's it MALE or FEMALE / Operations CANT CHANGE that.
The science is clear : X and Y chromosomes, sexuality, and gender identity are NOT the same. They are separate and individual characteristics. Chromosomes and gender identity are NOT the same. Gender dysphoria is NOT a mental illness.
Dysphoria is a profound state of unease or dissatisfaction. In a psychiatric context .It Involves the MIND and EMOTIONS So it is TIED to Mental Illness You folks just Choose not to ACCEPT your REALITY X n Y Man Women Having Trouble ACCEPTING your birth Gender Identities is at the heart of the IDENTITY CRISIS,
People who r in such DENIAL of what they are need Great care an Inpatient treatment
to free them of the delusion they are something they are NOT.
Accepting Life an what you are is the only Cure.
OKAY say for shits an Giggles you r Correct . Say I'm a Black man an I believe that's WRONG inside I'm a White man I know it I feel it I dress like a white guy an nobody that's black understands me. on the outside I'm Black on the Inside I KNOW I'm white.
WHAT would they do to me? put me in a Locked ward for observation until I accepted that I m black
SAME thing as Identity Dysphoria
JUST because its possible to look like a man or women doesn't make it right to operate
You will ALWAYS be what you were born as Man or woman
Accepting what you are is the first step to RECOVERY if Acceptance isn't reached you live a life of Delusion.
an that's LIFE
What a disgusting thing to say to a sexual assault survivor! "Calm down" - you should be ashamed of yourself. This person was clearly a creepy pervert and as people cannot change sex, he is a man & has no business in women's spaces. You can't surrender women's safeguarding, dignity & comfort because some men are uncomfortable with being men - although it looks like this fella was quite comfortable with his body! 90% of trans identified males keep their penis & enjoy the feeling of having breasts too! Cake & eat it! Go google autogynephilia and stop disrespecting women
The masculine looking woman you googled should NOT be in either bathroom. During the 19th Century, there was the perfectly appropriate place for her, GOOGLE freak show. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_show
If the person at least looks like a woman or dresses like a woman then they should be allowed to use the ladies room but if they still look and dress like a man then use the men's room, end of story. We can't take the risk of allowing predators to do what they want
I agree with you Bryan. I have a close relationship with a transgender woman and several of her friends. They ALL do their utmost best to appear as female, as this is how they identify. This man,according to the article, has not made this effort. Even on a shoestring budget, even being homeless, a transgender woman will make some attempt, even if a subtle one, to feminize themselves. Plant Fitness is trying to walk a fine line, and, IMO, has failed. They should have asked the man to either suit up and work out or leave.
the risk of predators is always there, assuming a trans person is a predator is simply prejudice.
Again, GRAND PEOPLE ARE NOT PREDATORS. They are exactly like everyone else with one discrepancy: they identify inside as a gender inconsistent with their physiology. That's ALL. Tolerance people. Kim Morris, MSW, D.Div.
Sh, spellcheck... Grand=Trans
Here there is a problem. Having lived both sides of the fence I sort of agree with you Brian, but we need to be careful and some of the ladies have already mentioned. There are true predators out there that will take advantage of any situation. Tolerance isn't the answer though. One needs to check ID's to confirm people who they say they are. It isn't about looks but real identity.
you cant EVEN GET VOTER ID CHECKS, Maybe the bus Should be Loaded with men an go Visit the Ladies locker room. Just wear a wig an a Skirt .Maybe that would bring attention to the INSANITY. Medication an Therapy is the Answer Not BUTCHERY
Sorry Pastor Richard I don't agree.
Of course you don't agree. you have been brainwashed into believing everything is Okay An there are No limits as long as it makes you Feel Good. That's the benefit of Having GOD out of the Picture.
The solution is actually an easy one. The bathroom should only be used by transgender people who have completed the transition . If there genitals match there identified gender. Simply if you have a penis use the mens room and if you have a vagina use the ladies. Simple as that!
I'm sorry Mark, I don't agree with you 100%. A trans person needs to find a bathroom that is more neutral to avoid any kind of conflict.
I suggest getting security guards for each restroom. This can derur sexual prediter. I don't think they will risk being seen. Male guard female guard.
FIRST, I WILL TYPE IN CAPS BECAUSE I CAN SEE WHAT I AM POSTING NOT MAD OR ANGRY!! OKAY NEXT I DO NOT BELIEVE AND MAN WOMAN GIRL OR BOY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO USE A BATHROOM CHANGING ROOM ECT OTHER THEN WHAT THAT PERSON WAS BORN WITH. THAT GOES FOR YOU BRUCE JENNER. HERES THE DEAL THIS WHOLE TRANS THING HAS BECOME LIKE AMERICA'S NEWEST FAD. WHEN GROWING UP IT WAS UNHEARD OF. IF IT WAS IN THE DARK CLOSET THAT EXACTLY WHERE IT NEEDS TO STAY PERIOD. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MIXING UP MIND BODY THIS HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH PCYCOLOGOCOL(SP) ISSUES THAT ARE AND CAN BE MANY. I AM SO FED UP WITH THIS NONSENSE, STILL NOT MAD JUST STATING MY OPINION. ALSO THE WOMAN WHO COMPLAINED HAD EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO REGARDLESS. WOMAN BULLY WOMAN ALSO OGGLE WOMAN SAME HAPPENS TO MEN. IS IT RIGHT? HELL NO. SHE FELT UNSAFE AND COMPLAINED DID NOT MATTER IF IT WAS A REAL WOMAN . OGGLING IS OGGLING PERIOD. GO REVIEW SEXUAL HARRASHMENT. TO INCLUDED LEARING OR LOOKING AT ONES BODY UP AND DOWN AS IN UNDRESSING A PERSON IT WRONG ILLEGAL PERIOD. NO MATTER WHAT SEX IT IS. SO YES THE CALLED TRANS- WOMAN OGGLED AT THE REAL WOMAN AND SHE HAD EVERY RIGHT TO COMPLAIM AND WILL HER LAWSUIT.
Well said Rene.
As a god fearing minister and all around 'good guy' I can promise you that if one of my three little daughters enter a woman's room and a "person" is in there with his schmeckle hanging out and leering at them.... He or she or IT will get the surgery they have been wanting for FREE. God bless ya'll
what if they brought a gun and YOU are the real target? What then? Be careful getting yourself all frothed up about something that had only happened in the wacky wolrd of Right Wing Nutzoland. You are probably compensating.
Actually, rape (and violent crime generally) is statistically much less common in right wing nutzoland (e.g. check the The National Crime Victimization Survey).