In June of 2016, during what should have been another night of partying at a gay nightclub in Orlando, evil intervened. A horrific act of violence left 49 people dead and many more lives permanently scarred. Beyond being (at the time) the deadliest mass shooting ever carried out on U.S. soil, the Pulse massacre was made all the more devastating by the shooter's intentional targeting of the LGBT community.
Less than two years removed from that awful night, one man who survived the attack insists that the experience set him straight. Literally.
God Supplants Gayness
34-year-old Luis Javier Ruiz, a Pulse survivor who lost numerous friends in the massacre, claims the brush with death him closer to God and led him to reject his gay identity.
I should [have] been number 50," Ruiz wrote in a recent Facebook post, "but now I have the chance to live in relationship and not religion, not just loving Christ but being in love with Christ and sharing His love. I know who I am and I am not defined with who the enemy says I used to be but who Christ Jesus says I am."
The post continued:
"Going through old pictures of the night of Pulse a memory were my struggles of perversion, heavy drinking to drown out everything and having promiscuous sex that led to HIV my struggles were real [sic]. The enemy had its grip and now God has taken me from that moment and has given me Christ Jesus I've grown to know his love in a deeper level."
Ruiz's unique story was profiled in a recent piece by the Christian Broadcasting Network:
Freedom March
Ruiz was recruited to participate in last weekend's "Freedom March" in Washington D.C. an event featuring "ex-gays" who claim to have ditched homosexuality and become straight. Many sought to share their testimonies and lend legitimacy to the controversial notion that gay people can change with the help of faith.
The march was organized by Voice of the Voiceless, aVirginia-based group which describes itself as dedicated to "defending the rights of former homosexuals, individuals with unwanted same-sex attraction, and their families."
Backlash Grows
Although religious groups praised Ruiz for his honesty and willingness to speak out, he removed the Facebook post after receiving intense backlash online. Many in the LGBT community saw his post and the march itself as deeply disrespectful. They say it only reinforces the damaging idea that homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice" which can be "corrected."
"Marches like this try to suggest that same-sex attraction is something that can be 'fixed' or 'cured'. But we know that while sexual orientation can certainly be fluid, it cannot be forcibly changed by external forces," said a spokesman for Stonewall, an LGBT rights organization.
"This is one of the reasons why so-called conversion therapy has been so widely condemned by medical professionals and governing bodies. People need to understand that same-sex attraction is natural, normal and not something that needs to be changed."
Defending the March
Ruiz attended Saturday's march, and remained adamant that his intentions were not malicious. "I don't want to tell everyone it's a 'gay-to-straight' thing because God is not calling me to that," he told reporters. "I feel that I want to live in a life of purity. I feel that through loving Christ, he will walk me out of any situation. I love the LGBTQ community, I love my family. There's no hate here, there's love."
However, it's not clear if Ruiz believes that conversion therapy using religion to "cure" a person of homosexuality is a legitimate practice.
Can Sexual Orientation Really Change?
Coincidentally, Ruiz's Facebook post appeared the same day Hawaiian lawmakers passed a bill that would ban the 'pray-the-gay-away' therapy for minors. It would be the 12th state in the U.S. to prohibit the practice that both the American Psychological Association andAmerican Psychiatric Association have discredited and which has been linked with increased rates of depression and suicide.
So, it is really possible for gay people to become straight (or vice versa)?
Could surviving a deeply traumatic event such as a mass shooting potentially spark a shift in brain chemistry and alter one's sexual orientation? That seems doubtful.
A more likely conclusion is that Ruiz represents a phenomenon which has been present since the foundation of religious belief - the overwhelming power of faith. Religious teachings have often proven capable of radically reshaping the human mind. Perhaps it's no wonder that this includes the suppression of one's true sexual orientation.
106 comments
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Marsha Bird
Regardless of how or why someone is LBGTQ (forgive me if I left anyone out, not my intention) or straight, believes in God, Buddha, or any other greater power NOBODY should be bullied for theirs beliefs and/or lifestyle. I see a bit of that in this chain of responses and I hope that you can see that isn't right. Respect for ALL others is the point. It's not my job to judge anyone else, but to help them continue to do what is right for them. Whether this man believes he is no longer gay or really just prefers celibacy, that's his choice. If it works for him, there is no reason for him to be bullied by anyone... Honestly I don't understand why everyone has to express any sexuality publicly, but that's just my opinion and it doesn't matter.
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Reverend Anthony Feltner
I am wondering if his "conversion" will still be complete after The March is complete. Same-sex attraction is a born trait in X and Y gene placement. I always ask why would someone choice judgement and ridicule for their life. God created us, LGBT community members, during our invitro development in his image just as he created heterosexuality in many of my friends and church family.
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John Owens
No scientific proof of people being born with with same-sex attraction. None. Zero. Not hating, just refuting.
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Reverend Anthony Feltner
Research proving that there is biological evidence for sexual orientation has been available since the 1980s. a report released by the Academy of Science South Africa, the outcome of work conducted by a panel put together in 2014. The work was conducted in conjunction with the Ugandan Academy of Science. The academy looked at several scientific studies that have all provided converging findings, including family and twin studies. The studies have shown that homosexuality has both a heritable and an environmental component. Normally, all females have two X-chromosomes, one of which is inactive or “switched off” in a random manner. Researchers have observed that in some mothers who have homosexual sons, there is an extreme “skewing” of inactivation of these X-chromosomes. The process is no longer random, and the same X-chromosome is inactivated in these mothers. This suggests that a region on the X-chromosome may be implicated in determining sexual orientation. The epigenetics hypothesis suggests that one develops a predisposition to homosexuality by inheriting these epi-marks across generations. If this suggestion were correct same-sex orientations would decrease and disappear with time. Yet non-heterosexual orientations are consistently maintained in most human populations and in the animal kingdom over time. There also appear to be compensating factors in what is known as the “balancing selection hypothesis,” which accounts for reproduction and survival of the species. In this context, it has been demonstrated that the female relatives of homosexual men have more children on average than women who do not have homosexual relatives. The academy found that a multitude of scientific studies have shown sexual orientation is biologically determined. There is not a single gene or environmental factor that is responsible for this—but rather a set of complex interactions between the two that determines one’s sexual orientation. Sven Bocklandt, a geneticist at the David Geffen school of medicine at UCLA, is bewildered by the argument that people choose their sexual attraction. He said that virtually every animal species that has been studied - from sheep to fruit flies - has a small minority of individuals who demonstrate homosexual activity.
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John Owens
No. You are mistaken. Just because a small minority of many species "demonstrate" homosexual activity does not in any way mean it is biologically determined. Animals only demonstrate homosexual activity when the opposite gender is not in ample supply, and they will not PREFER their own gender over the opposite. That's ridiculous.
If you look at the reviews on the studies to which you refer, you will see there is not one concrete piece of evidence anywhere saying any human is born with ANY sexual orientation. Even moderate powers of observation should teach anyone this, but you are taking speculation and pretending it is fact.
I know you will think I am being obtuse but I have been through this time and again, and I know whereof I speak. For one thing--It is not possible to ascertain the sexual orientation of anyone at birth. Absolutely impossible. It cannot be ascertained until some degree of maturity has occurred, whether it is five years or twenty. By that time, environmental factors have exerted their influence on the individual, and our DNA actually changes as we mature.
As far as female relatives of homosexual men having more children, on average--first, I'd have to see the empirical evidence of that to give it any credence. Second, those families might be more prone to having large sexual appetites, but that still is no evidence that the homosexuals were born gay.
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John Owens
Regardless of whether or not it is even POSSIBLE to be born gay, certainly not every practicing homosexual is BORN homosexual. No possibility of that, whatsoever. Some are influenced to that behavior, like men in prison, for instance, or little boys who are abused by male relatives, or have promiscuous mothers or dominating mothers.
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John Owens
Maybe he only thought he was gay before, because he was brainwashed. His PTSD liberated him. Maybe he no longer wants another dude because it was a dude who did the shooting.
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Revy Wilmont
As a Army Veteran and also a member of the LGBTQ community and child that is also LGBTQ and many years of medical research under my belt as well as living in a very structured Christian belief as well as have gone to seminary myself, it would seem that there is the typical biblical misunderstanding of some verses that were used about homosexuality. The verses posted are often used but those that have studied the bible as well as the history of the world can tell you many of the verses are taken out of context. As one of ULC's father (I am assuming) pointed out, because of societal pressures (religious and personal societal opinions) many of those that are LGBTQ have as higher suicidal thoughts, depression, as well as acting out those suicidal thoughts than those that are heterosexual. I just really wanted to reach out to those that are spreading words of despair from a book that is supposed to give hope to the world.
Now to the main topic, we as humans have evolved over time into what we are now. For years, we as a species know that the animals tend to have fluid sexual orientation. What many forget is that like all animals, we as humans have gene factors that can be found in those that are LGBTQ; however, no you sometimes are not gay if you have the gene coined "the gay gene" however it is highly passed down from generations through DNA and those that are in the LGBTQ community . The thing that bothers me the most is that we forget the basic principles that we are animals! No matter what happens we know that the in the animal kingdom there are those that are heterosexual, homosexual, bi, and fluid all over. Like any other sisters and brothers of ULC because of my upbringing I tried to pray the gay away. Which would lead me to believe the man in this article was bisexual, fluid, or heterosexual and just curious. I have known those that are not gay to go through an experimental time in their lives but that does not mean that they are that label. A lot of times those that are young do not really even understand themselves. As someone that is female and prior military it is likely no surprise that I have PTSD. As someone with this health issue a traumatic event such as being in a mass shooting and seeing others perish can definitely rewire your brain and in ways that are not explainable. If this young man associated the shooting happened because the people were LGBTQ it is possible his brain could have rewired him to believe he was straight; however the question to me is, is this trauma brain or is this truly who he is?
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Reverend Anthony Feltner
There is a total reverse of this hurtful message. Too many teens and young adults struggle to find acceptance in today's church body if they are gay. Just as many older adults were forced into closets which they built around themselves in order to be accepted in the church. As a minister,I found that struggle daily for 38 years trying to "pray out the gay". It wasn't until I finally listen to his voice, that I came to accept myself. I was married, traditionally, to a women for 13 years and I struggled daily to have God restore me. Then one day God spoke to me while I was on my knees in prayer. He said, "Why are you lying to all these religious people and your family and friends? Do I make junk, No! I made you in my image. Liars have their part in the lake of fire, so it is time to stop lying. Repent, then learn to love yourself as I love you, straight or gay. If you are gay then you were made in my image, accept yourself and heal the wounds that lying has caused to many in your life." It wasn't easy I had to tear down many lies and I had to accept my life as a gay christian. Today I am an ordained minister who is happily married to my partner of 15 years. It still isn't easy, people will always be biased against something they do not understand, but it is through each of us that biases can be broken and understanding can taught.
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ECfromDC
While I doubt he's suddenly not gay ..... if he feels he's straight now well then he is.
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Iconoclast
Exactly.
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Rev. John D. Partin
So, just feeling that you are something is always the same as being that thing or feeling that something is "right" is the same as its being right? Because, then, many phony "Christians" would actually be Christians just because they feel that they are and pedophiles would be "right" in molesting children just because they feel that it is "right" to do so. The list goes on and on! Obviously, it takes more than just someone's feeling that something is "true" about himself or herself to actually make it true. Objective corroboration of that feeling is necessary for that.
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Jesus is love
Never i love everyone.. No hated here sir .. It's God's job to judge people.. But as a believer Jesus has called me and you and all children of God to preach the truth! I don't hurt people I serve them with love and kindness and I pray for souls Amen
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Jesus is love
Amen sister Tara.????
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Mark
Acceptance goes both ways.. It appears that many groups cry for acceptance yet refuse to accept other points of view. The LGBT community's (among others) are notorious for this. Even amongst my loved ones, friends, and colleagues that are gay it is evident.
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Jesus is love
Wow you won't post Truth right from the bible? Father forgive them for they don't know!
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The Doctor
First off what truth? nothing in an archaic text that has been rewritten countless times by men contains any truth.
Second your invisible sky daddy is to busy being treated like a japanese school girl in a hentai flick by the giant spaghetti monster in the sky to forgive anyone.
Damn that would be an awesome update to the ceiling of the vatican, All those slimy noodles wrapping around and filling every orifice. Oh man that would be so hot.
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Jesus is love
Wow you are very mean sir .. You obviously severe the enemy.. I have the right to speak the bible. Just as you have right to say whatever you want .. do you always talk to ladies in the manner ?? Have a good day sir ????
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Jesus is love
He was saved by Jesus Christ! If you believe it's ok to be gay that s the darkness deceiving your mind! I have love for everyone no judgement here.. But I do speak truth ..Repent your sins and come to a complete surrender to a living God! There's only one way to the father and that's though a relationship with Jesus Christ! Come to the cross your never to far gone and everyone is welcome. There's a light in the darkness the lord is waiting with open arms.
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The Doctor
First off buddy, its not Jesus Christ, its Jesus the christ or messiah. The fact you call him by the term used by the most ignorant and uneducated about biblical history tells me you dont understand that which you try to speak of.
You also seem to not understand what the ULC is about. Its fine if you are christian, its not fine the moment you speak it as some absolute and tell others that if they dont believe as you do they are doomed.
There is someone lost in the darkness of ignorance here and methinks you need to look in a mirror to see that person.
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Jesus is love
Hashtag Good day sir may God bless you!! ???
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Jesus is love
Not hash tag lol have a Good day LMBO God bless ..?
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Rev. Rebecca
I don't understand how he can say that God has changed him from being gay to straight, I know for a fact that you either are born gay or born straight. Some men and women are born with opposite X or Y genes, making them attracted to the same sex. There are some men and women, who in life, had a bad experience, which swayed them to be attracted to the opposite sex. Those are the men and women who had a choice, and chose to be attracted to the same sex, those people, like this man, make it hard for people who were born gay, and do not have a choice, that is just simply who they are, a child of God who was just born with more X or Y genes, in turn, making them who they are, and always will be, GAY!! With no choice to go straight.
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Jesus is love
Jesus Christ saves !
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Rick
This man may or may not have ever been gay in the first place, or perhaps he isn't being entirely truthful in telling his story above. If he's gay, he hasn't really changed his orientation; he's only given in to pressure from his religion, family, friends, or whatever, and is denying himself the kind of relationships appropriate for him.
Sexual orientation is inborn, immutable, and cannot be changed. He may have chosen to not act on his attractions (for now), but the attractions themselves don't change, and they won't go away.
Let's check back again in perhaps five years, and see if he's still saying the same things. Most of these "ex-gays" eventually return to being true to themselves, and renounce their earlier claims of "being delivered."
I don't mean to belittle people of faith who may disagree with my comments, I'm just speaking from experience. As a 59 year old gay man, I've seen this kind of thing before, and it almost always ends the same.
The person soon becomes depressed, unhappy with living a lie, and eventually returns to being true to himself. Unfortunately, sometimes there are disappointed spouses and children to consider by the time this happens. Wouldn't it be far better if he hadn't tried to turn himself into something he isn't, and never was?
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Reverend Anthony Feltner
Rick, you hit the preverbal nail on the head. I too lived a lie for most of my adult life. The first lie was to the recruiter who asked me in 1979 if I was attracted to other men. From there the lie continued, then in 1989 as a practicing minister I married a women and knew when I married her that I was gay, in fact I was in a gay relationship with the lead singer in my gospel group. Later, after I married, he came out and met another man, shortly thereafter he contracted AIDs. It was shortly after that when I sat my now ex-wife down and confessed to my lies. My son was almost 5 and my daughter was 4. In 2003, I met my now partner and husband of 15 years. I was able to restore my friendship to my now minister and pastor ex-wife. Under her ministry my husband is now experiencing his Christianity through Christ. He loves my ex-wife as his pastor and my children have finally accepted him as my partner. What joy and fulfillment come through honesty to one's self. Now, as a minister and husband to the man I love, I have finally achieved peace in my life.
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sheryl A clyde
I think he is scared to death. I don't consider that a cure. Yes it is possible for LGBT's to be something they are not. Does it mean they are going to be happy? No it doesn't. It is not fun living a lie and being something your not and sleeping with someone you really don't want to be with. I think that there is a lot of misinterpretation in regards to homosexuality and the bible. But IF he truly feels it is wrong to be gay then no one should force him to otherwise because then you would be hurting his walk with God. 1 Corinthians 8 talks about food sacrificed to idols but the principle behind it is the same today. You can substitute anything for the meat. We are all to work out our own salvation while not hurting others. IT is the principle of Loving God and Loving others. So if he thinks it is wrong let him think that. IF someone else has no problem with it let them be that way. But don't hurt each other with your beliefs.
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Michael
That is fine if he, want's to be straight now. He just needs to remember that God created him, God knew who he was going to be, before he was even conceived. Just the same as everyone on earth. Being gay is not a choice, it is who we are, it is how we were created and how we were born. If he choses not to be gay that is fine.
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Susan
Thank you. I am that I am. I was created by the most high God. If it were a choice then when did heterosexuals chose their path? I’m happy, my wife and 3 Golden retrievers are happy. We don’t judge others.
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Bill Fox
I know a lot of alcoholics who now live a sober life. I have never actually met a gay person who has been "cured". I suspicion that gays in general do not want to be "cured", just like alcoholics whose lives have not become unmanageable because of their alcoholism.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Alcoholism is diagnostically classified as a disease- being gay is not. There is no such thing as a cure for being LGBTQ since it is not classified as a mental disorder. It is not an addiction and to compare the two is like comparing meteors with puppies.
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The Doctor
Not to those that hate difference Cat. To the closed minded and hide bound types they see anything that they see as bad as equally bad in typical black and white you are wrong and I am right zealot fashion.
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Norma Battes
Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW May 16, 2018 at 9:38 am " comparing meteors with puppies. "
But then, they both have tails.
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mark marcelis
Gordon Francis Blaney Jr ;Your comments well thought out and expressed perfectly.
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Oh Mo
Too hilarious!
If he's "cured" he wasn't gay before. Bisexual, maybe, but not gay. LOL!
And I'm STILL waiting for someone to tell me what is that gays take from straights. Or where in any holy book of any religion homosexuality or being gay is forbidden.
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Jesus is love
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Jude 7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
I have more of you need it!! God bless
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Jesus is love
If not of lol sorry xoxox
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The Doctor
You sir seem like the kind of christian that would burn people at the stake and frankly disgusts me.
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Jesus is love
Also he asked for that info .. So I shared it with him ?????☝☝☝☝????????
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Rev. John D. Partin
Jesus is Love, I'll ask you, as I have asked many other people here----and have never received an answer: how do you know that those Bible verses that condemn homosexuality weren't put in the Bible by homophobic writers, in order to make "God agree" with them, so that they could "sanctify" and "justify" their bigotry and impose their views easier on other people? My proof that they did so is that God isn't a bigot and so if anything that is obviously bigoted is "said by Him" in the Bible, He didn't put those words into His own mouth, but they were put there by people to make Him "agree with them". It is just too "coincidental", suspicious, and convenient that the God of the entire Universe ends up "agreeing" with these small and narrow minded homophobic bigots. As the Scriptures say: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9), but God's thoughts and ways aren't higher than ours if He is saying the same things that small and narrow minded homophobic bigots are saying. So, what is your proof that these Bible writers didn't put their words into God's mouth? Also, "Jesus is Love" is a very strange and self-contradictory handle for you to have in this blog because Jesus never spoke against homosexuality and loved all people.
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Rev. Dr. Gordon Francis Blaney Jr.
Sexual fluidity is greater among females than males. The circumstances of arrousal are not choice oriented, but the resultant of complex biological reactions between the body and mind. During trauma the mind and body go through immutable changes often. It’s not inconceivable that him and others like him have become heterosexual; however, this doesn’t give him the right to undermine a natural homosexual relationship. How is it that I can state it’s natural? It would be unnatural to use medication or other such means to become arroused, when no attraction is present, for the sole purpose of sex. This all being said: “He should probably change his ways, because those that are sexually fluid tend to be so until death; he could later be battling himself and be branded a hypocrite if he backpedals on his beliefs about God and homosexuality”.
The really sad part is that we all assume we know what a loving God wants based upon different texts written by people who’ve reinvented these different text through interpretation and language changes. These texts usually go through revisions. None is more notorious than the Bible with all its councils of [insert name]; the various divisions that use the Bible cannot agree on number of books to include, how to translate them from their most recent surviving version, and many other things.
Depending on who I counsel, the brand of religion changes - even the God or Gods they believe in. What I do is listen, counsel them based upon their beliefs. If there’s something I won’t do in my ministry is believe I’m right, my Higher Power is right, and, well, yours is dead wrong.
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Ahira Benitez
Amen. Well said. Only God himself can judge, we as his children, can and must pray, love, and live by example.
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mark marcelis
Being Gay is not a choice. Some people are gay, get over it. It doesn’t affect your life. Move on
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Kevin Driggers
Well I am not going to get into the straight, gay, bi, whatever pissing match but I have read enough that your DNA determines your sexual orientation and you can’t PRAY the gay away. ??????
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Dennis Loucks
As a gay man. As a minister. As a man who has been to church since childhood. I sincerely pray for him. Trauma has many unpredictable affects on a person. That he believes himself straight I do not doubt. Having tried to pray many things away, I know God does not work that way. Fear can cause such a reaction. In my personal opinion, I believe that he had convoluted the excesses of the club/bar scene with being gay. I have a friend who is effectively impotent because he did the same with sex and drugs. Now, in order to stay sober he has to remain celebate. In this case, rather than fighting addiction we are likely seeing the effects of PTSD. Do not judge him, but pray he gets the help he needs. When his expectations from faith fail, and life never meets those expectations, I fear for his well being. Pray, and advise with love. He needs healthy support.
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Jesus is love
How are you a minister of God preaching blasphemy!! Everything your saying goes against the word of God.. What kind of church is this? What are Your beliefs? Because it's clearly not from the bible.. Xoxox God bless???
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The Doctor
I know no words of god, just words of men claiming such.
And are you unaware that those that belong to the ULC are meant to be nondenominational and accept all faiths as equally valid as long as they are not pushing violence and hate.
Frankly I dont even trust people that honestly believe in the bible. Those christians that see it as a book of stories meant to impart wisdom are fine, those that think everything in that book actually happened.... well damn that is sad and abit disturbing and frankly may be worthy of being locked in an asylum.
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Jesus is love
Also your telling me I have to be open to all beliefs but your clearly not open to mine.. Practice what you preach.. I preach the love of Jesus.. And the word of a loving father.. Have a great day ! ?????????
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Tara
Amen!!!!! I'm with you on that! I rather believe the Bible all day long, The word is true all by itself!
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Mark Schnitzer
It seems to me that you and Tara discount anything anyone else says if it does not line up with how you interpret the Bible. Did you know that there are several ways to interpret Scripture? Did you know that there are several thousand different Christian denominations around the world, each believing they they are the closest thing to "truth." Did you know that LGBTQI people are people whom God created and loves and that your comments actually push people away from the boundless grace and mercy and forgiveness of God? I was an Evangelical Christian for 30+years, and I am no long Evangelical, but I still believe in the radical unconditional love of God through Jesus. But one thing that I do now know is that God's love is for everyone. No one can stop it. Not even you. Much peace and may the Holy Spirit give you eyes to see and ears to hear.
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Tara
Hello Mark Schnitzer, yes I do know all about the denominations and that everyone as there different religion & beliefs & what they claim is the truth! There is only 1 true living God which is Jesus Christ, whom I believe in only! I'm not here to force religion on anyone, what I said should draw them near not push them away! You mean to tell me scripture will push people away, then something is wrong with that picture, I'm not going to just tell you what you want to hear, I don't even tell my kids what they want to hear! You are right about this, God does Love everyone including the LBHTQ, but he hates the Sin! If people will repent and turn from there wicked ways he will heal the land! God is a forgiving god if you ask & you're truly sincere at heart!! He does have boundless grace and mercy, I ask for his forgiveness daily because no one is without sin! I just want to see souls saved not here judging anyone! I'm not trying to stop God's amazing Love, I couldn't do that anyways, I'm not in control telling the Lord whom to Love & not to Love!!!!! I ask the Lord to lead & guide me daily, oh I have eyes to see & ears to hear! Now you be blessed & God is Love!
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Tara
I believe with God all things are possible! When Jesus truly comes into someone's life & they repent of their sins sincerely, Jesus comes into the heart & forgives our sins! You see flesh has to die! People want to please the flesh, no one is born Gay! There's a way that seemeth right said the Lord! Our way is not God's way! We need to seek the kingdom of heaven & all its righteousness! We want to justify things to much, people rather here a lie than the truth these days! We are living in perils times, it's time to turn from those wicked ways & seek the truth, The Bible talks about unatural affection, don't be deceived, another one of Satan's trick! The Lord said multiply & be fruitful, can two of the same sex do that? No! If it was meant for the same sex to be together then God would of gave Adam a Steve & not Eve! I can go on but I'm going to stop this is all I'm lead to say at the moment! This is not my opinion these are facts straight from the Holy Ghost! People read your bible & seek after God's heart , humbling yourself as a child!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Are you a ULC minister? Your words are in direct conflict with our organization's ministry and focus. Time to become clear about whether you support us or not and who and what you are in relation to the tenets of the ULC. You may find that you need to leave the ULC if you cannot support us after familiarizing yourself with ULC Monastery's tenets which you promised to uphold..
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Tara
Catherine, if it aligns with the word of God I support, I didn't say anything wrong, didn't call any names! I'm not here to protect feelings, I'm here to stand up for God & whats right! Not judging anyone, if the post was not for you then it shouldn't bother you, I'm just here to hopefully save a souls not to offend anyone, I love everybody including gays! I have o put it out there like God gives it to me! A person can take heed or not! I'm not throwing my beliefs on anyone! This is what I'm talking about, people rather hear a lie than the truth!
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The Doctor
Uhm Tara you seem to fail to understand Cats point. The ULC and those that join it to become ministers are suppose to be open to and accept all faiths as equally valid. Then comes a radical zealot like you shouting that your way is the one true way.
Its fine if your personal specific faith is a monotheistic one that you subscribe to. But when you speak as you do all you do is put a sign up saying My view of god is right and everyone elses is wrong. Do as I say or be damned is the exact thing driving more and more people to full tilt atheism.
Your pushing the bible and worship of a man that was a false messiah is exactly at odds with what each of us that is true to the idea of the ULC.
One cant welcome all while saying this one way is the right way.
Here at the ULC we do not push biblical texts nor present faith as fact. Faith is never factual and you need to understand that as well.
Finally if people misunderstand what you are writing, then that is on you to hone your writing skills and expand your vocabulary so as to better express your thoughts and feelings.
So far you are despite saying you love all come off as one that would of been happy to build a pyre for a convicted witch.
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Jesus is love
Sir our job as a believer is to save soles..not tickle people ears..I love everyone because I understand where not fighting flesh. I am sorry sir but everything I and tara said is God's word Not ours .. Jesus died for our sins not for us to continue sinning .. Repent and the holy spirit will prune anything in you that's not from God.. God bless to All Amen
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Tara
I'm not pushing my faith on anyone, like I said before & I will say it again! If I'm led to give a word by the Holy Spirit I will do so, if it does not fit you then pay it no mind, It's not for you! I'm not saying my way is right, It's not about my way & what I think, but the Lord's! You don't have to believe, that's your business. I will never tell anyone what they want to hear period! You can call me whatever! Words don't hurt me! I'll pray for you & yes I love all people just as I stated!
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Tara
Leviticus 18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
Laws of Sexual Morality
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Now this is a fact!! Straight from the Bible! Not my words! Like I said I love everyone! Wouldn't convict anybody, I'm a let that the Lord handle that! Be blessed!
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Jesus is love
Amen Tara a fellow truth speaker! We should be friends always love talking Jesus with fellow believers! ??? very well said sister preach the Truth!
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Tara
Thank you! I will continue to stand on God's word! We could be friends!
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renie
tara you write the truth and not translate it with your own words . folks want what feels good and makes them happy. but that is not always what life is all about. read the Word of God The Holy Bible and you will discover the truth. ask God to show you.
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Carl Elfstrom
Nobody's lord ever said we had to multiply all the time with everyone we ever had sex with. If a gay man has sexual intercourse with a woman one time and gets her pregnant that should suffice. And Steve did come before Eve. I've heard that numerous times in gay bars from very reliable sources. So, there !
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Tara
Those words didn't come from me like that! Please don't twist them around! We all know I'm not not talking about just multiplying with everyone, The right way biblically would be is to marry. It's better to marry than to burn! Pure sin!! Sleeping around! My point was a person is not born Gay, when I stated be fruitful & multiply was and example of what two men can not do together! So therefore what you are talking about a gay man sleeps with a women 1 time & get her pregnant that should suffice! You just answered your on question! He sleeps with a Women but he's gay right! Oh ok!
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renie
Carl, you are the kind of person who always like to skirt rules find the loopholes to fit your needs. it wrong and in the end it hurts you or others. if you would be brutally honest with yourself and look back over your life and take inventory you will tally up many times that you have found ways to not tell the truth the whole truth or found ways to get around following rules or laws. it is called being rebellious. stubborn stiff-necked. not calling you that just saying if people do these behaviors it more often than not follows.
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Browny
Spirituality has made it possible for me to live sober, drug-free and celibate. Other people might not want to give up alcohol, drugs and sex, but I greatly prefer the life I have now to the one I had before. I don't try to convince others that they should adopt my practices, but I happily share what I've learned with anyone who wants to know. Mr. Ruiz doesn't seem very unlike me. He has ceased to engage in behaviors which were causing him problems. Good for him. I have friends who drink, use drugs and have sex - straight. gay, bisexual &c. If they are not experiencing problems as a result of those behaviors, there is no reason for them to stop.
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Ken Dixon
I'm not sure it's accurate to say that the Pulse shooter was targeting the LGBT community. He initially planned to attack at Disney Springs - hiding his weapon in a stroller - but was spooked by police presence there.
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Carl Elfstrom
We don't always see ourselves accurately, or from all points of view, or with complete certainty, and sometimes later change our minds about ourselves when we realize more.
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Lea Weisenbach
Fear will change anyone. It worked to build the Christian church.
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John Owens
...and Islam.
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Carl Elfstrom
I read another good book once called Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway. And I have another good book on cassette called Don't Sweat The Small Stuff And It's All Small Stuff.
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Dark Gray
It's very difficult to bring about any sort of lasting change through fear alone, though. Especially for something as fundamental to the personality as sexual orientation.
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Norma Battes
Income tax?
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Dark Gray
By way of contrast, I submit the following article. The first few paragraphs read:
"When 19-stone rugby player Chris Birch suffered a stroke during a freak accident, his life was transformed - but not in a way that anyone could have predicted.
When he regained consciousness, the 26-year-old – who was engaged to his girlfriend at the time – found his sexuality had completely altered.
'The Chris I knew had gone and a new Chris sort of came along. I came to the realisation that the stroke had turned me gay,' he said."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2130900/Chris-Birch-Rugby-player-woke-gay-stroke-says-hes-happiest-hes-been.html
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Carl Elfstrom
Dark Gray, have you heard of walk - ins ? Read Ruth Montgomery's book Strangers Among Us.
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Dark Gray
Yes, I've heard of them. Hadn't connected the idea to this particular case, but it's an interesting thought.
The complete change in physical appearance, lifestyle, and personality following a traumatic event -- a "freak accident", in this case -- would fit the pattern as I've heard it. Especially since it sounds like Chris is healthier (having lost a ton of weight), in a more people-friendly profession (hairdresser vs. banker), and (in his words) happier than he's ever been.
Definitely worth thinking about. Thanks for suggesting the idea.
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Doug Barron
Where did the "professional" idiots such as psychiatristrists, and the "psychologists" Come in to this?
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Levi
I'm taking it you don't know a thing about the human brain right?
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Rev. John D. Partin
JO, well, I'll try again, even after all of that mess in Cake Wars to reason with you, but I honestly don't know why because you don't accept even basically logical and reasonable things as true. Anyway, here goes. How did Jesus know the Pharisees better than the Pharisees knew themselves? According to your line of "reasoning", He shouldn't have been able to do that at all and the Pharisees' ideas about themselves should have been the bottom line on who and what they were. But their ideas about themselves were wrong and not the bottom line on who and what they were. Jesus was right about them and they were wrong about themselves, which would be impossible, according to you, if everybody knows himself better than anybody else can possibly know him. We don't have to be Jesus Christ in order to see that some people are just not being honest with themselves and don't really know themselves very well at all, but only have to actually LOOK!!! at them and see what they do and say.The Pharisees weren't the only or last people in the history of the world who didn't know or face or admit the real truth about themselves, but, rather, only one little group out of a long line stretching several times around the Earth, since people's not really knowing themselves very well is the usual course of human thinking, not the exception to the rule, and people are extremely lucky to ever come to a true knowledge of themselves at all. You say that "even a shrink has nothing to go by but what the guy says", but it, obviously, doesn't do the shrink any good to "go by what the guy says" if the guy still doesn't know himself very well at all, because, then, the shrink is forming his conclusions about the guy based on false premises. As I told you before, homosexuality isn't just something that anybody can turn on and off, like a water faucet, and so anybody's claiming that he or she just instantaneously self-conversion therapied into becoming "straight from gay" is immediately suspicious and highly improbable. He may be (and probably is) forcing down any gay desires and thoughts in his head because of his trauma about the shooting in the Pulse nightclub and wanting to disassociate himself from all of that (out of fear of ever being in that situation again), but thoughts and desires that are being forced down in anyone's head by himself aren't the same thing at all as thoughts and desires that are no longer there, quite obviously, or they wouldn't need to be forced down. You say that "he awakened and found the idea (homosexuality) terribly revolting" and "about 9 out of ten men would, if they thought about it at all", but you are viewing this from a straight man's perspective and because you find it "terribly revolting", well, then, "of course, everyone else would find it terribly revolting, if they only woke up and thought about it at all". You can't judge everyone else by yourself and believe that they have to find something "terribly revolting" just because you do or would in their situation. That isn't the reality of different thinking and different living people in this world. It is a good thing for people to live and think differently in this world, since it would be a very boring world if everyone thought and lived the same way. Variety is the spice of life, not the curse of life, as you and others think about the different variety of sexuality known as gayness. So, again, a gay man's saying that he is now "straight" is immediately suspect and highly improbable, since he could be just saying that, without its actually being true, for a great number of reasons----none of which have anything to do with actual sexual preference conversion. We can't just take his word for it and "well, he said that he's now straight and so I guess that it must be true, huh? I mean, he couldn't have said it, if it weren't true, now could he?" because that would make us just the most gullible and unrealistic people on Earth!!! No more than I would believe that you have suddenly "converted to being pro-gay rights or gay yourself" after all of the things that you have said to me against gay rights and gay people, just because you were to say that you now are, would I believe that this guy has suddenly "transformed into straight" just because he says that he has because he could be (and certainly is) deceiving himself, the same as you would be. People can change their minds, but it takes far more than just their words saying that they have or repressed feelings to prove that they actually have. No doubt, I have just been casting more pearls before swine and pouring water over a rock here trying to reason with you about this, and you will just come back with more evasions, smoke screens, deflections, changing the subject, and all of your other usual tactics, the same as you always do, but I tried, anyway.
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John Owens
You still cannot say what is in another person's mind, Partin. Not this dude's, and not mine. YOU are deflecting. Constantly. That's why you yack for so long about everything. Your mind wanders.
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Ron Spain
Partin, You have such an ignorant mind. And spew words out you know nothing about, like you think you do. Your comments are very amusing.or maybe you're just trying to convince yourself of what you're saying. People like you crack me up.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Ron Spain, here is my long overdue reply to you, short and to the point! Self-hating gay people, such as yourself, the same as self-hating Jews or self-hating black people or self-hating any other people and SUCKERS!!! who fall for and let themselves be convinced by other people's propaganda and brainwashing against themselves that they aren't who they still actually are CRACK ME UP!!! You are the same as these other self-hating people and like a "Jew" that just goes along with Nazi propaganda and agrees with them about everything and lets them convince him that he's "not really Jewish anymore"!! You are such a BIG JOKE!!! It takes a lot of words to try to get through to IDIOTS!!!, such as you, and it still doesn't work!!
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Rev. John D. Partin
John Owens, here is my long overdue reply to you, too, as I just gave to Ron Spain, also short and to the point! You are the King of Deflection in this blog and so your accusing me or anyone else of "deflecting" is just the biggest joke of all!! I "yack for so long", as you put it, because I'm talking to IDIOTS!!!, such as you and Ron Spain, who are very slow on the uptake and don't get anything from just a few words said to you (or even after these long posts of mine, as it turns out!). You are both DEAD FROM THE NECK UP!!!
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Rev. John D. Partin
Thank you very much, Rev. Marti J. Smith for agreeing with me and for pointing that out about pedophilia in the heterosexual community. I agree with you, too, about the LGBT community's not needing healing and their sexuality and spirituality not being at all mutually exclusive!
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John Owens
Simple: if he believes he no longer becomes aroused by males, THEN HE DOESN'T. Our preferences in type of partners and in sexual positions and acts can change. I don't know why anyone would doubt that this man's changed. If he says they did, then they did. Many people want to treat, rather than punish pedophiles. Why would you want to treat them, unless you think they can change? If pedophiles can change, then anyone else can.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Here we go again. There is no cure for pedophilia, so the reference to "many people want to treat rather than punish" is misguided. I question who these "people" really are. My colleagues who are also specialists in this field, know treatment only is impossible. We all agree that conviction with lifetime probation is required to protect society as much possible. Again, treatment without adjudication and lifetime probation is impossible and individual treatment is contraindicated. Child molestation is a crime against society's most vulnerable members and child molesters are really good at what they do in manipulating, grooming victims and lying to others. Specialized treatment for them is not about cure and change. Community control is necessary. Prison time is essential for these crimes against children. Being LGBTQ should never be confused and/or equated with pedophilia, as being gay it is not a crime nor mental disorder. It is possible this man is bi-sexual. If his new found religion works for him and he has found some peace after experiencing such a horrible traumatic experience from the massacre and loss of so many friends, good for him.
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Dark Gray
So, Catherine, would you advocate for the death penalty for all convicted child-sex offenders? Assuming, as you say, that these people are irredeemable, there's no hope that they can ever be rehabilitated, and that they will therefore present a continuing danger to any child they ever come into contact with?
Or what about life imprisonment with no hope of parole ever?
Or what about mandatory surgical castration? (Assuming the offender is male, that is.)
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Death penalty No; Yes they present a continuing danger to children, that's why lifetime probation is recommended; sentencing varies state to state, and surgical castration???? Seriously, that would not do a thing. It is in the brain, the cognitive process,etc., not the testicles.I find a lot of people who lack knowledge about the pedophilia, do call for castration due to their ignorance. If you want to learn more, rather than address your questions to me, how about you begin reading and studying about pedophiles, rapists and other sexual offenders? Good Luck!
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Dark Gray
I was actually more interested in hearing your thoughts. You seem extremely sure of your opinions; you actually present them as facts. I wanted to see how far that sureness extended. Pretty far, it seems. You even know which part of the body is responsible for this type of behavior. And, it appears, anyone who doesn't think as you do "lacks knowledge".
I do know of one case where a serial molester actually begged to be castrated. He hated what he was doing, but felt that his sex drive was so overwhelming that he couldn't stop. The judge refused to order the procedure.
He wound up cutting his own balls off in prison and flushing them down the toilet. After he recovered (they found him bleeding and unconscious in his cell) he seemed much calmer and happier.
The mind is a powerful force, but I think one ought not discount the role hormones play in one's sexual behavior.
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Carol W Waldenburg
Thank you Catherine. Those of us who have both theological and psychological/psychiatric training Know that as of now there is no "cure" for pedophilia.
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Chad W
I believe that Catherine is “sure of her thoughts” due to her training as an MSW and LCSW, hence the knowledge of what “part of the body is responsible for this type of behavior”. I’m not sure why you feel that she is implying that “anyone who does not think as she does lacks knowledge”. I’m not reading that from her statement at all. I read her statement as “anyone who doesn’t know these basic facts about Pedophelia should seek obtain knowledge so that you can speak from a more informed position, and by getting educated in these areas you might understand what Pedophiles are driven by, and what works and does not work to deter their behavior”. Her thoughts are emulated by the APA and represent the most currently known and accepted prognosis of Pedophelia. As with any scientifically based body of knowledge, this outlook on the “cause” and treatment of Pedophelia is subject to evolution as new information and treatment methods are discovered and thoroughly researched. The best thing we can all do for now is brush up and stay current on the known facts about this or any other mental disturbance (term loosely used) so that we can base our defense/prosecution of these subjects on knowledge, experience and intellect vs. feelings, sentiment and emotions, which are usually too fluid to be used as a reliable source of judgment.
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John Owens
For the record: I was not equating pedophilia with homosexuality, even though one CAN be a pedophile who prefers the same gender. The fact is, though, many people DO advocate for treatment rather than punishment.
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Kevin Driggers
Wonderful response!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Thank You Rev. Driggers, my responses are professional opinions based on years of training and experience treating adjudicated sexual offenders.
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Jen
This guy is full of it! You are either LGBTQA or you are not.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Are any of these people, such as John Owens and his ilk, who are saying that someone can switch from being gay to being straight also saying that someone can switch from being straight to being gay and that they themselves could become gay, under the right circumstances? No, they are not because they think that straight sexual orientation is "immutable" and the "only natural kind" and that it is "only gay sexual orientation that can and should change". So, all of their talk about "gays becoming straight" and "conversion therapy" is based on pure homophobia and hatred of gay people. If not, why don't they apply the same standard and thinking to themselves and say that they could also change from straight to gay?
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Mark Schnitzer
He didn't become straight. He was simply never gay, or he is bi-sexual. The continuum of sexuality has people at one end that are completely heterosexual and people on the other end who are completely gay. Everything else is in between. No one jumps from one end of the continuum to the other. If anything, this young man was confused about his sexual identity but now has embraced what he always was, heterosexual. But it is a more exciting and titillating testimony and many more accolades from the religious folk to say I used to be gay and now I am straight.
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John Owens
If a man WANTS to fellate or sodomize another man, he is gay. If he stops being aroused by those thoughts, and begins to sexually desire females, he is no longer GAY. You cannot honestly think you know the man better than he knows himself. That's ridiculous.
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Rev. John D. Partin
John, the problem with a gay man's now thinking that he is straight is that people aren't always what they think that they "now are", in reality, but are self-deceived and brainwashed into believing untrue things about themselves many times. If this weren't true, there wouldn't be any hypocritical and pharisaical "Christians", who think that they are "true Christians", or any other hypocrites and self-deceived people in the world at all. None of them really know themselves as well as other people know them, who can see the truth about them, which they refuse to or just can't see, anymore than the Pharisees could see the truth about themselves and had to have Jesus tell them what they really were: whited sepulchers and a brood of vipers and hypocrites! If Pharisees and other people down through history and today can be and are self-deceived about themselves and really don't know themselves very well, why couldn't this gay man, who now thinks that he is "straight", be self-deceived and brainwashed into thinking that he is something that he is not? If self-deceit could happen and constantly does happen with all of these other people, why couldn't it happen with him and how can you prove that it didn't? Being gay doesn't just stop, the same as turning off a light switch, just because someone decides one morning "Well, I'm not gay anymore", anymore than you or anyone else can just turn off your straightness and decide to become "gay". If it were that easy, there wouldn't be any gay people in this country or world at all, having to put up with all the hate and discrimination and insults and gay bashings and bigotry from gay-fearing (if you like that better than homophobic) and gay-hating people in this world. All of them would "transform into straight people" just in order to avoid all of that mess!!! They don't all "transform" because they don't have any choice about being gay, just as you don't have any choice about being straight: it is just who they are as straight is just who you are. If some techniques were used on you to make you think that you had now become "gay", you would still actually be straight, but only thinking that you are "gay". That is what I'm saying about this gay man who now thinks that he is "straight". It is the same thing, just reversed: a gay man thinking that he is "straight", instead of a straight man thinking that he is "gay". Surely, you can see that because you are a very intelligent, and not a stupid, person. That it took some time (his time in the hospital and recovery) for him to realize his new found "straightness" is just more evidence in favor of his having been brainwashed and indoctrinated into believing that about himself because it took that much time to overcome his natural gayness. How many months or years would it take for you to be indoctrinated and brainwashed into thinking yourself to be "gay"? That is the situation that we see here with him, except that it happened much faster with him, due to fear from being in that mass shooting, but changing because of fear, whether quickly or slowly, isn't the same at all as actually transforming from gay to straight or from straight to gay. Or, again, all gay people who are afraid for their safety and lives in this gay-hating society would also "transform into straight people", as this man "did", but only superficially and self-deceitfully. Also, if gayness isn't inherent in some people from a gay gene or whatever you want to call it, and only the result of environmental influences, why don't the same influences that "make anyone gay" make everyone subjected to those same influences "gay", which they don't, and why don't all gay people just "transform into straight people", if it is entirely up to them what they are and their own choice?
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John Owens
Whatever caused it, he no longer becomes aroused by other dudes. Ergo, no longer gay. People change sometimes. If a guy thinks he is straight for 40 years and then decides he's gay, you have no problem accepting THAT.
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Rev. John D. Partin
John Owens, or just thinks "he no longer becomes aroused by other dudes". Was there some part of that long harangue about people's not knowing themselves or being in touch with their true feelings that you didn't understand? Because I thought, as usual, that I made it very clear, but evidently not! Sometimes people change and sometimes they don't actually change, but just think that they have. A guy who thinks that he is straight for 40 years and then decides that he is suddenly "gay" is probably as self-deceived as a guy who has been gay and then suddenly decides that he is "straight" (out of fear from ever being in a gay bar again). There would have been some inkling of this newly "gay" man's feelings for other men, at some point, over the course of 40 years, don't you think? So, no, I wouldn't just accept that the straight man became "gay" and would have a problem with that, the same as I do about this gay man who became "straight". Covering up to yourself that you still like men and claiming now to be "straight" isn't the same at all as no longer liking men and actually being straight. If deceiving yourself was really all that it took for anyone's lie to himself or herself to be the truth, there wouldn't be any people in the world at all who were lying to themselves. Remember the Pharisees who thought that they were the "holiest people on Earth", but were actually whited sepulchers and a brood of vipers?
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Iconoclast
JDP, I don't know how you think you know what is in the man's mind better than he does. Even a shrink has nothing to go by but what the guy says. If he says he doesn't like thinking about another man's junk any more, who can say he does? Maybe he awakened and found the idea terribly revolting. About 9 out of ten men would, if they thought about it at all. You just don't want to admit that a person's mind affects their orientation. If our mind changes, our orientation can.
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Ron Spain
You have no idea what you're even talking about. I have practiced homosexuality all of my life. 45 years. I'm now 54. He delivered me out of that 9 years ago. Praise God. I have never been with a woman. I have never been bisexual. I've always preferred men. God, yes, GOD, delivered me, or brought me out of a homosexual lifestyle that I was living. So, you can go from one extreme to the other, absolutely. I lived it all my life. So I know all about it. I had an experience with Jesus One Night in my living room. And he changed me. He took that urge away from me for men sexually. He also restored that relationship between me and my family. I love life, single, celibate, and couldn't be happier. I think life gets better as you go.I am so grateful that I do not live in that abominable lifestyle anymore.I didn't want to spend eternity separated from God. People can say what they want too about me or my testimony, I could care so less. I'm not here to make them happy or try to please anyone. They weren't here, they didn't experience what I experienced. But leave it to the people that scream tolerance and acceptance, to be the most intolerable and unaccepting.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Ron Spain, you are merely a self-hating gay person still and have merely gone along with and been indoctrinated by gay-hating propaganda and brainwashing against yourself, the same as many other still gay (though they suppress it!) people have!! I already wrote you another post about this, where you say that "people like me crack you up". Well, suckers like you, who go along with propaganda and brainwashing against yourselves and being who you still actually are, and agree with your enemies, CRACK ME UP!!, the same as self-hating Jews or self-hating black people or self-hating any other people!!! You are just a BIG JOKE!!!
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Rev. John D. Partin
Ron Spain, as I told you before, you have just been brainwashed and indoctrinated into believing that you "are no longer gay" and are a sucker for letting people do that to you!! Did that so-called "experience with Jesus" just come out of nowhere or had religious persons or groups been working on you to change your thinking and living for quite some time before that, supposedly, "happened"? The answer is obvious because it never just comes out of nowhere and with no working on a person's head for a long time beforehand!! So, go on and be a self-hating and self-denying homosexual and agree with people who are using you for their own agenda and propaganda, if you want to and are stupid enough to do so!! Every other sensible person still knows that homosexuality can't be turned on and off like a light switch because it is an entirely natural feeling and desire and not a sin, as is shown by its even being practiced by members of the animal kingdom, who never do anything unnatural or commit any sins.
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Rev Marti
Agree, John. And to be clear to those arguing with you, pedophilia is an overwhelmingly mental illness in the heterosexual community as it was with concubines in the Bible. I get tired of the two being enjoined in discussions when LGBT validity arises. I don’t believe LGBT people need “healing” nor do I believe anyone miraculously becomes heterosexual if they were in fact gay. Please explain Ron, why you haven’t slept with a woman if you were “healed?” Americans give too much importance on our sexuality in terms of our spirituality. They aren’t mutually exclusive. I say that as a trained clinical psychologist, and spiritual counselor.
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Which God is this? There are so many types being pray too it s hard to see which one he prayed to.