In a controversial Facebook video that has gone viral, a self-professed "ex-lesbian" claims that gay people can become straight if only they pray hard enough. Emily Thomes starts off sounding like an LGBT advocate, talking about coming out at a young age, living as an openly gay teen even recounting her engagement to another woman during nursing school.
But the tone of the video changes markedly when Thomes begins talking about the Bible. "I Googled verses on homosexuality and those who practice homosexuality, which was me, and also drunkards and a bunch of other things that I would have been," she explains. "I realized I was in the 'will not enter the kingdom of God' line-up and it scared me. Really, really bad."
So influential were these messages, Thomes says, that she decided to renounce her "sinful lifestyle." Now married to a man, Thomes claims Christianity helped her understand why loving another woman is wrong. But she doesn't prefer the phrase "turning straight". As she explains: "it's not gay to straight. It's lost to saved."
The video, confusingly titled "Love is Love," has quickly racked up over 2 million views on Facebook:
An Old Debate Revived
The concept of using religion "cure" a person of homosexuality once fairly popular has become a vestigial debate in the religious community.
The medical community frowns upon conversion therapy, as research has shown that it doesn't work. In fact, it's even been linked to higher depression/suicide rates. This significant shift in public opinion led many to believe that conversion therapy was finally on its way out.
However, this video's popularity shows that the controversial practice of "praying the gay away" is still alive and well. Produced by the evangelical group Anchored North, the video's carefully tailored message brought praise from many Christians.
"Praise the Lord! I would love to meet everyone in these videos! Keep sharing the truth of saving faith!" commented one Facebook user. "Love seeing these stories! I have a similar testimony of God rescuing me from the lifestyle that I was trapped in," replied another.
But the message also sparked harsh criticism from people skeptical of religion's ability to "turn people straight."
One person accused the group of using faith to coerce people: "This is Christians using a fear tactic to make this girl question everything and become brainwashed into their thinking and it sickens me to no end."
"This little video is enough to push gay kids over the edge to suicide. So so wrong," wrote another angry commenter.
Can God Really "Fix" Gay People?
The most concerning aspect of the video, critics point out, is that Thomes appears to be recruiting other gay people to join this "faith journey" of hers.
"People say to me all the time, 'I was born this way.' I say, 'OK, me, too.' You're not born with right affections. That's why Jesus had to come. You feeling a desire for sin just proves you need grace like me."
Being gay in a Christian household has always presented challenges. But in recent years, LGBT-acceptance has been trending upward among faith communities. More and more churches are accepting openly-LGBT people as members and even as clergy. They are spreading a message that it's okay to be yourself, God will love you anyway.
However, after watching the Anchored North video, it's clear that some faith groups are determined to resist this trend. For some, homosexuality will always be a sin. A disease curable only by scripture.
What do you think? Is it really possible to "pray the gay away"?
190 comments
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Katelynne Victoria Shouse
LOL, OUT LOUD....what a complete and total load of bulls$%t!!!
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Philip Harris
There is no son in being one's self but there is in being another's self. Be true as you cannot lie to self or your Lord. Know you, don't be anyone else for anyone.
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Walt
Learn more about the English language.
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Ron Gilch
Focus, Walt, focus! The topic is the "cure" the woman received not Scrabble.
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hsw
I wish we could “like” comments here. Consider your comment liked.
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Ralph Miller
Good for her.Now her comes all the haters,saying she was just bi or this is just bullshit. When people choose to live there life the right way,there will always be those who try and bring them down.
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Dan Atatakai
Ralph - Please define "right way".
Is it really bringing someone down addressing their true nature (in this case, homosexual)?
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Ralph Miller
The right way:what is normal,as opposed to what is not normal
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Robert Glencoe
"Normal" is problematic from an academic point of view, given that the word, in its meaning of "conforming to a standard" didn't actually exist before the industrial revolution. Prior to that it was a term largely used in carpentry, meaning something along the lines of "at right angles to"
Perhaps you're thinking of a specific verse in the Bible? Here's a few commonly cited ones (and why they're not as clear-cut as people think):
- The Story of Sodom & Gomorrah (Genesis 19) This story in Genesis 19 is probably the most popular passage used to condemn homosexuality. God sends two angels disguised as men into the City of Sodom where the men of Sodom threatened to rape them. The angels blind the men, and God destroys the city. For centuries, this story was interpreted as God's judgement on same-sex relations, but the only form of same-sex behaviour described is a threatened gang rape. So gang rape = not good (also not the same thing as homosexuality).
But the recap of Sodom & Gomorrah found in Ezekiel 16:49 highlights what I believe is the real point of the story: "Now, this was the sin of your sister, Sodom. She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned, they did not help the poor and needy." In other words, everyone using this story as evidence of the sin of homosexuality, might be missing the point entirely.
When God calls homosexuality an abomination (Leviticus 18:22) (Leviticus 20:13) Yep. We've all heard that Leviticus is where the Bible straight-up says that homosexual behaviour is an abomination. And yes, it does. It also says that homosexuals should receive the death penalty (!!!). However... It also says the same thing about eating pork or shellfish, charging interest on loans, and a whole bunch of other restrictions that were a part of the Old Testament Law Code. But for Christians, the Old Testament doesn't (dare I say "shouldn't?") settle any issue because Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the law. Which is probably why most Christians today eat meat, use credit cards, wear makeup, and support equality for women. Because, as Hebrews 8:13 says, the old law is obsolete and ageing.
When people turn away from God (Romans 1:26-27) "Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones; in the same way, men committed shameful acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."
Cultural context is everything. In Biblical times, same-sex behaviour was often seen as happening between adult men and adolescent boys (masters and servants — yikes), via prostitution, and by men who were married to women. In all of those cases, we can see why it would have been viewed as sinful, excessive, lustful, and against God's law.
But there is no mention of love, commitment, faithfulness, or the type of same-sex relationships that are at question in the debate around marriage. (By the way, Paul also says that men having long hair is "unnatural" and that women shouldn't speak in church - there's a whole separate debate around the meaning of the ancient Greek phrase-word 'para physin', which is often translated as 'unnatural' but equally can be translated as 'unusual' or 'unconventional'. Basically, we can't really be sure about what Paul means at all, especially since he also uses the word to describe God's actions in bringing Jews and Gentiles together in Romans 15).
- Uses of the Greek works "Malakoi" and "Arsenokoitai" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) (1 Timothy 1:10) These words are included in the New Testament's lists of people who will not inherit God's kingdom. And there has been much debate over their original meaning. (Translating ancient words is hard.) Some believe them to mean homosexuality and sodomy, whereas others have said that the closest modern translation would be "dirty old men."
Many modern translators have rendered these terms as sweeping statements about gay people, but the concept of sexual orientation didn't even exist in the ancient Roman world, which sometimes used sex as part of religious worship (the Greco-Roman ancient mystery cults are a prime example of this). The context Paul was writing in is worlds apart from gay people in committed, monogamous relationships. The Bible never addresses the issues of sexual orientation or same-sex marriage.
Now, don't misunderstand me here. I'm not a Bible Scholar, just an academic (and therefore well-practised at doing research), and I certainly wouldn't presume to be privy to the will of God. I'm not telling you that God is fine/not fine with homosexuality in its current practice. What I AM saying is that there isn't any clarity in the scripture to support your statement, and so we can't really make grand, sweeping statements (like your proclamation that there is an indisputable 'right way' to live your life when it comes to sexual orientation).
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Walt
God's lawyer speaks... go Robert
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Christian
How about dropping mythology and politics and focus on science:
Homosexual behavior will radically reduce the survival rate of your grandchildren, if you get blocked from having children during your reproductive years.
The Biblical Deity seems focused on people being the 'father of nations', Abraham, etc.
The science of genetic recombination via sperm and egg has been developed over Billions of generations of all life forms.
It is unfortunate if that subsystem fails to function correctly, but such is the outcome of natural selection.
Creatures that fail to breed, go extinct.
What is odd is that homosexuality exists at all, considering if it was purely genetics based, homosexual genes should be extinguished, just as much as being born with no lungs.
So perhaps the environment is doing something to developing embryos and children.
People often look to the damage caused by plastics and pesticides on children's development.
Thus the renewed interest in organic food, avoiding GMOs, plastics, trans-fats, heavy metals, and vaccinations packed with metals and other agents, abstaining from alcohol, heroin, weed, and tobacco.
I certainly pray for all families good health and avoidance of anything that harms their growth and development.
May all families enjoy healthy children and grand children !
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Jimmy Perry
Robert you sound like my brother Troy. He has been a Civil Rights Spokes Person for the LBGTQ for years. I really don’t think that my God would change any of his creations.
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Mr Avitar
The academic interpretation you showcase is wrong and wrongly interpreted due to the fact you interpret third party and possible fourth. #1 you can interpret if your not in the present of the reveling evidence #2 when you dont quality to interpret your perspective then it becomes misleading. If you are a scholar in New test biblical writings only of which less than 5 in the vatican library contain then your wasting peoples time. Now if you take your attitude towards genetic research on the medical abnormalities ie homosexuality behaviors and genetic abnormal responses to determining socialigical homosexuals who chose to be vs the genetic defects that are abnormal responses to hormonal imbalances that cause mutations in proteins and hence not allow a human to properly naturally reproduce and hence become extinct. The good news science will correct this abnormality through proper eugenics programming that rids of all the evil shit the devil throws at us. What we cant avoid is the devils actions to force hormonal selfish responses of greed towards the weakness of flesh and hence why and how gays sociologically switch by choice (usually mental or physical torment to the same sex) and get the false comfort they deem is love.) Thank God for science and we will correct these evil malfunctions and make them homestatic as God planned. And regardless what evil shit the zionist jew devils who allow such abominations of evil exist in feminist,gay pedophiles murders, and Anti Christians we will as the true CHildren of God through the Blood of Christ do as Christ said - "destroy the synogogue of satan" black and white then all this evil crap will disappear in a split sec but not before. There is no need to justify these evils and when these evils perpetrated our politics and separated church and state the devils of satan won a first round in justifying their evil. We will never allow them to win a second. EVER!!!! PREPARE FOR THE FINAL SLAUGHTER OF EVIL !!!!
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Quasi
Who gets to define "normal"? Certainly not you nor me, nor any fallible humans being who has ever lived or is alive now.
What you perceive as normal is simply the concepts with which you have been taught and brainwashed. Your personal feelings or ideas are inadequate to decide the path for another human being. Your experience is much to anecdotal, small and frail to be used as a measuring stick.
As a person educated in Statistical Analysis, I learned to define "normal" where one must specify the assumptions and the associated parameters along with the population in question. And then one must test the hypothesis to the fullest extents possible using the Scientific Method resulting in reputable results that have been verified by discrete independent reputable scientists. The research will yield distinct results that will easily and adequately determine the result of the hypothesis within a specified error rate. Usually, 97% of a population is enough to learn the curve that will define just exactly what normal means, and how far away from that centorid, a "central point" (Note: not an exact center point).
Unfortunately, the Official US Census for 2010 showed there was 4% of the US population who were LGBT++. At that time, that were only those few who would so admit on the Census Questionnaire. That means there are likely between 4% and 10% of the US population who are LGBT.
Your "missionary position" is far too restrictive for Mother Nature to endure.
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Ralph Miller
Ok lets talk about what's normal and What's not. The rectum serves one purpose,to dispose of waste.(that's normal)common sense should tell you that. What the rectum is not designed for is having other body parts shoved up there.If that was the cast there would be a vagina back there instead of an A$@hole.
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Ken Dixon
What should be done with people who are not "normal"?
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Ralph Miller
Ken Dixon.what should be done is not up to me,and frankly none of my business.I know what my beliefs are.I know this lifestyle is not natural.I have friends that are gay.I don't judge them,I just don't believe in there lifestyle
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CHRISTINA M D-Thoden
People who are not normal either if you think they are normal or not should never be fooled, tricked, cohorsed to threaten the life of a child in the wording of how they speak to themselves then judge without conversation an opinion to base discussions on to discuss children who are not related with ill intentions that fiscally would justify their existence. Did you or did you not kill a child who is grown without leaning on religion of any name or any sort? Private funding, different travel, innovative market technology and think this is equivocal to a conversation? You could be a robotic instrument with technology so diverse 2018-31 in legal terms and not everyone enjoys that to use intelligence to train. Let the robot do the work and when a person needs back up from the provisions you call a human that is alive with all intelligence not stifle to bridge the freedom of information to excel to our fullest potential with reserved extended life of knowing religion characters and accepting different levels of thinking. As not to stop anyone from having fun yet some people like excersicing and work. How would I know if I don't have housing and simply communication this information you may argue that I do and that is incorrect.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Ralph Miller, when ALL!!! straight people no longer indulge in anal sex, then they will be able, unhypocritically, to talk down to and tell gay people that it is "wrong" for them to engage in it. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen!! Until then, let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone and practice what you preach!!
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Anita Ganser
It is when we call it sin.
The anti-same sex references were due to procreation and needing children to build a tribe and a faith.
We Christians and other Faith's have pushed LGBTQ persons away from faith by not taking these scripture in the context it v was given.
Biblical days it was common to lose children to disease and accidents in great numbers. They could not afford to be lacking in children
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Sam Sowards
Homosexuality has always been wrong! Politicians are the ones that made it acceptable.
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Dan Atatakai
Sam - HOW is it wrong? Because it is not the majority does not mean it is wrong. Are you going to claim, then, that left-handed people are wrong, too? Remember, at one time, just being left-handed would get you killed.
Whether it is being left-handed or homosexual, it is ALL found in nature, therefore, how can you say it is wrong? The Bible, as I posted earlier, does not even address it. It talks about completely other issues which people have ASSUMED meant homosexuality. This is the problem with not studying the historicity or culture of a given writing.
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Anita Ganser
I think he is saying God made a design flaw.
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hsw
I think you got it backwards. Love is never wrong. Radical Right politicians singled out a group of people to create a “hot button” issue to rouse people like you to support them.
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James
Are lesbians really gay? I know plenty a so called gay women. They all use toys and fake male parts and switch playing the make role. So, even they admit it's more of a control or fear of men thing. Gay men on the other hand..... Only a few play the sissy stuff. So in my humble opinion they really go head first; no pune intended. Yet many of the females that can keep a man have turned back to the real man. The less fortunate, over weight, or homely ones stay on the "do what feels comfy" zone. Now this is a simple observation on my end. Why call it anything but young horny females being naughty instead of gay. Then again, how does a child know about sex, what they are sexually attracted to and do further. Sounds like a lack of proper teaching on a few fronts. Self control people. Want the candy but you know you're too fat, don't touch it. That simple. The Bible has a record of setting things in order for some people.
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Sophie
Good sir. I first read this as a joke, but I am not so sure. This is potentially one of the most chauvinistic, narrow minded and ignorant opinions I have ever come across regarding homosexuality. I do not deny you the right to have your opinion (entitled men often struggle with this). But I sincerely hope that in future you might think about keeping hate to yourself (if you feel inclined towards feeling it).
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sk lause
Your ignorance is astounding. Please stop posting misogynistic garbage and take a good long look at yourself. Education will go a long way to help you understand just how hateful you're being. Please begin with understanding the difference between sex and attraction, as well as the simple things, like being a decent human being.
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Anita Ganser
Yes lesbians are gay by definition this term is used to summarize same sex attraction. If they use sex toys that replace a man that is just what makes them feel good not that they want a man. They are attracted to breasts and female sexual organs. They don't want neither a scruffy bearded dude or a soft face boy.
It send you probably don't know any lesbians. You might all them what the attraction is over males instead of thinking they are afraid if men which is inaccurate
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JASON D BENDER
Agree with you 100% Must point out, though, lots of gay men are afraid of women - myself included!
oops! Should have not said that last bit... lol
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Anita Ganser
Have you heard if science? I think you can find some reliable medical publications that can help you
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John Owens
I don't think you need to believe in God at all to believe that people can change drastically, given motivation. As far as the scriptures go, there were members in the church congregation at Corinth whom the Apostle Paul said "had been" and then gave a list of practices and characteristics including effeminate. The point is, people CAN change if they want, and they can be influenced to change if they do NOT want to change. Take Maher, for instance: He doesn't WANT to stop acting like a moron, but if he DID, if he wanted to become a full-fledged human being, I believe he could.
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John Maher
HEY JOHN BOOGER BUTTERFLY OWINS, DO YOU KNOW WHY MORONS CALL EVERYONE ELSE MORONS ??? THINK ABOUT IT !!! IF YOUR CAPABLE of THINKING... DUMP DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP and HIS RNC/GOP VILLAGE IDIOTS...............
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Dan Atatakai
John - is this kind of attitude really called for? The last I knew, this area for discussion was ONLY for mature conversation, NOT petty attempts at insult.
Also, while you are at it, unless you have a horrific case of glaucoma, may I suggest using standard typing and not typing in call caps (a.k.a. YELLING".
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John Owens
You have to forgive Maher, atatakaidanjp. He's just a crotchety old something who loves everybody and hates himself for it because he thinks it makes him a wuss.
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Wuzhu
Wow, you judged John Owens fast! To think some people think that psychiatrists shouldn't diagnose Trump from afar, but you invented a whole profile for Owens.
People can change some behaviors to a certain extent, but there are some things they cannot. Alcoholics can find recovery, but they have to maintain total abstinence from alcohol. They can't become 'normal' drinkers, no matter how much they might try or pray for it. This has been demonstrated around the world by researchers in medicine, psychology, etc. The same goes for sexual preference, personality, preferences in taste, etc. By the time we're entering puberty, many aspects of our personality our hard-wired, despite inconvenient contradictions with Bronze Age beliefs.
Gays growing up in the 70s and 80s encountered nothing but bigotry, violence, and possibly death in many parts of the USA, but there's still this fantasy peddled that they 'chose' to become gay and can 'choose' to become straight. (Why on earth would people growing up in small Christian towns, where gays would only face rejection and harassment if not physical attacks, CHOOSE to be gay?) And yet every straight Christian I speak to cannot remember any time they were ever attracted to being gay. It's patently absurd. The fact that we now live in a more tolerant country, where young men and women can come out in school and be supported, does not prove that young people are 'choosing' to be gay.
You have Paul's letter. Well, we don't have anyone from the congregation at Corinth, so it's just an example of Paul's closed mind, nothing else. To paraphrase George Fox's sermon, 'everyone says 'Jesus said this' and 'the disciples said that', but what do you say?' If Paul were transported to the 21st century, his tiny mind would explode. But then again, Paul was not God.
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John Owens
Zhiyi, people's sexual desires/fetishes do change with time, depending on exposure to different things, availability of potential partners, toys and appliances available, and what actions about which they choose to daydream. That is a fact, observable and experienced by many if not all.
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JASON D BENDER
peoples sex desires do change over time, but one has no control over the direction and timing of those changes, silly billy!
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Anita Ganser
They can conform if they don't want to be authentic to themselves. This is why gay persons have a higher suicide rate. This is why some people's spouses are running around behind their backs with their true loves. That is why some couples are in loveless marriages.
Would you want to have to conform to being with a man if you are coming attracted to a woman? Say for instance the norm was gay and you were there as the outsider being pushed to have sex with someone with a beard... Nauseated yet? I can imagine women who are lesbian feel the same way.
I think this girl is be-sexual not just exclusive same-sex attracted. It she chooses not to be authentic.
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Gary
how much praying would it take to take the straight away?
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Dan Atatakai
Gary - My guess is it would take about 220 years, give or take a decade.
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Sam
sexuality is very fluid, which is why many people have a hard time understanding it, even for themselves. It seems to me by her own account she was not living a healthy life style. She was seeking help and I would say that she may still be living a lesbian life today if there was a support group for her that supported her as a lesbian. She wanted out of her spiral demise and she found a group that helped her do that. It doesn't mean that god made her straight. God made her her and loved her as a lesbian, but god helps those who helps themselves. If she had walked into a MCC church she may be with a loving woman, and this still may happen. To me its clear that she is bi and she has found comfort with a man this time. I don't think she was looking for god, but rather looking for comfort and some less drama. Let her be happy, even if it is distorted by the bible. And to all the homophobes on this site those who are so ignorant of sexuality and those who fear women straight or gay because you can't control them I say you need to get some help and stop all your hate and start loving yourself. God can help you too if you got some help, you too can be happy instead of spewing your hate.
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Anita Ganser
Thank you!
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on a Wing and a Prayer Ministry
Bi-Sexuality is as old as mankind, don't know why people act like it hasn't got a name when a person swings both ways and looks to me like a whole lot of people do, accept yourselves. May the Lord Bless and Keep You and Yours 24/7/365
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Ralph Miller
Growing up everybody has urges,especially when they experience their sexuality for the first time.It's how you react to those urges that will define who you will become.there's right&wrong and self control.
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Dan Atatakai
Ralph - then, what is "right & wrong" and self-control as it relates to homosexuality? Is it all objective (fact) or faith-based belief (subjective)?
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Zilla
"Right" and "Wrong" are totally subjective concepts. We generally have to be told by someone else as to which category our thoughts or actions belong.
This girl is simply back into the closet.
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Ralph Miller
How is it back in the closet when she says she doesn't participate in that lifestyle anymore.Being "in the closet" implies that lifestyle is being practiced behind closed doors
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Dan Atatakai
To claim that homosexuality is "unnatural" is showing ignorance of both the Bible and mammalian biology.
Of the many people I have had conversations with or have heard interviews, anyone who had the "gay prayed away" still had the homosexual drives, but they merely suppressed their nature.
The passages of the Bible which supposedly address homosexuality don't. For example:
Leviticus 18:22 - About the use of male temple prostitutes in Canaanite religious ceremonies - not about two people of the same gender who wish to dedicate their lives to each other.
Romans 1:26 - A misunderstanding of Saul/Paul's writings. One only need look at the historicity of the time when he supposedly wrote these words. One would see he is talking about an ancient fertility ritual to the Goddess Diana - for increased crops and more calvings/lambings.
1Cor 6:9 - In order for this to be about homosexuality is if one looks ONLY at the newest versions of the Bible. KJV1611 says NOTHING about the "homosexual not entering the kingdom of heaven." That is a recent addition.
How about in Genesis with the story of Sodom & Gomorrah? Again, attributed to homosexuality, when in reality, it was about inhospitality and rape, something that, according to the story, God warned them about prior to the so-called "event."
People, please do a bit of academic study of the historicity and culture of your own holy book, the Bible. It will help you to understand much more and maybe even help you be less judgmental and hostile toward your brethren.
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John A Anderson, CD, CIF Mons ON
EXCELLENT! Encouraging more scholarship is a GOOD thing. And remember, Saul brought orthodox Jewish thought into the early church, which frowned upon the Greek ideals, even though Rome allowed them.
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Anita Ganser
Thanks for the clarification!
I guess I would ask how do you/anyone knows the context if Romans 1:26 was talking about the ritual of Diana. I am not being oppositional I am really asking.
Thank you again
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Wanda Houchin-Campbell
As a lesbian (%* YEARS) I DO NOT THINK SO!!! She wil fall back into her LOL SINFUL ways, there is no cure and you cannot pray away what Creator has created one to be.
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Wanda Houchin-Campbell
That should have been 58 not %*
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Anita Ganser
God made you that way, is not a sin. It is God's design
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Chuck
Three points of view.......
1) Scientific: Yes, people are in fact born gay. My brother is a molecular biologist and actually did work on this. It is either genetic brain mutation, or chemical imbalance. He also found that there has been a drastic increase in gay people the last 100 years, and it is due to the stressors of pollution. Chemical, and frequency pollution were the main culprits. Thats why they are finding "gay animals" near plants that have pollution runoff, and near high voltage/transmission sights.
So on one hand he made people happy coming to the conclusion people are in fact born gay, but made a lot of people angry for also finding it was an effect of un-natural environment.......in other words, it is completely inorganic. As inorganic as GMO food.
2) Religious: Does God hate gay people??? Obviously the answer to that is no.
However, being of the Christian Gnostic knowledge, I know that the masculine and femenin are meant to be separate for Universal balance, and the combining of the two means something went wrong. I also know through a decade of reading, that those against the Creator (Satanists) promote homosexuality, and have been using it to "conjure" going back to Babylon....and even still today in the Hasidic community and Catholic Church...(because neither religion have anything to do with the true Creator, and are worshipping the Demiurge/Satan)..... The Demiurge despises all things organic, and despises the natural world.
3) Political- In our current world, those who promote "alternative lifestyles" have severely ill intentions for society. Those in politics that promote it are part of creating Globalism as well (aka World Satanism), and know they have to destroy values, family, personal identity, sexual roles, and balance in order to achieve what they ultimately want. A society that doesnt know up from down, and is easier to control....order out of chaos. Also why Hollywood promotes it, as they are part of the "plan".
Can someone actually "stop being gay"? I would imagine they can. I could give you a laundry list of things people have turned away from by finding some of the truths of my Creator, the way I have. I can give one example.........I was BORN a genetically predisposed alcoholic. Alcoholism runs so badly in my family, it is portrayed on our medevil coat of arms. I was born an alcoholic. Having found recovery, I will always be an alcoholic, but no longer have the desire to drink, and have found a Nirvana of a better life for it.
So, there ya have it. Take that for what you will, but it is all true.
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Ralph Miller
So what you are saying is,when a person is born there born with a sense of self? Born knowing who they are,born knowing their favorite color or favorite color. If that's the case then you should be able to walk and talk straight out the womb. You say people are born gay...? So a new born bady should be able to tell you this,because their born with knowledge right. If a newborn baby is raised by bears,would he be attracted to other bears or humans....
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Dan Atatakai
No, Ralph. As it is hormonal, it takes time to develop certain issues, from walking to sexual identity. Development of certain parts of the brain determine ability to speak, walk, and operate one's body.
Studies at Northwestern University, University of North Dakota, Tokyo University of Medicine as well as a few studies performed in England and in Scandinavian countries have shown it to be hormonal. Whether it is genetic or not, we do not yet know.
When you were born, were you able to walk up to your folks, greet them and tell them how you happen to be heterosexual? Please do not try to be so quick to judge without understanding.
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Ralph Miller
How can traits(or issue's as you call it) be developed if your already born that way...your either born walking&talking or it's something learned.Back to being raised by bears,will that baby be able to talk in complete sentences on their own...they have the ability,but it's something that has to be learned.
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The Doctor
Ralph you have at best an elementary education on this topic. Studies on genetic memory have evolved the old idea of animal instincts. Not to mention ever since the successful decoding of the human genome along with many other genomes we have now come to understand that homosexuality is very much part of ones genetic programming.
A perfect example of the radical Christian hypocrisy is that they will call abortion evil eugenics but at that same time was the faction that suggested the gay gene could be "cured".
And while it is indeed true that using a retro virus one could in theory edit that gene sequence, the risks especially at our current scientific ability far out weigh the benefit of giving people the choice. Which I am neutral on. I frankly imagine those with the gene who would choose to take the risk would do so far more likely due to social pressures and less from an honest desire to have the choice.
Christians are in dire need of being reminded their faith is just that their faith and not treat it as the only faith or pov.
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Ralph Miller
T''keren Valmaz. Really! "2nd grade education"A yet you wanna compare yourself to animals...homosexuality is natural to you because certain scientists say so.the same scientists that say everyone comes from monkeys.the same scientists that tell you all creation is the result of the big bang theory.Not only is this lifestyle unnatural its unhealthy.thats common sense.
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Ralph Miller
Also when people say "There Born that way" their basically saying their incapable of making decisions for themselves.You choose to live one way or the other(key word CHOICE!) IF someone offers you drugs, you have a choice...YES OR NO Are you going to say you where born to do drugs? Someone tells you to jump off a cliff,once again...YES OR NO.or was you born to jump off cliffs...
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Chuck
What I was referring to is mutation of the sexual identity part of the brain while in the womb
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Anita Ganser
Thank you!
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Anita Ganser
No babies can't talk. Someone who was not in a shame ridden environment and felt comfortable to be authentic would tell you.
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John A Anderson, CD, CIF Mons ON
Minor correction to the end of the first point. Humans have actually been genetically modifying food since the days of prehistory, choosing foods that are sweet and animals that are docile, and breeding more of those. The difference today is that we are able to manipulate the genetics directly, rather than waiting for the growth period to end to taste the end result.
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Chuck
Inorganic as in not being able to reproduce life. Much the way GMO food is modified not to produce seeds.
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JASON D BENDER
Not all GMO food is modified to be seedless... Mainly that is done to protect the GMO company's IP.
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JASON D BENDER
Point 2 is good. The rest of it is utter toss!
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Timothy Carlstead
This proves people can change and this woman who lived a sinful way of life has seen the light and the error of her ways. She read what had happened Sodom and Gomorrah for what they have done. I am very that a former lesbian had seen the error of her ways and changed to a straight human being. Minister Timothy Carlstead
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Rev William Dorsch
Good for you Emily. The Bible is not a buffet line that you can pick out what you want and leave the rest. It looks like Emily saw that and took it into her heart. It is not up to us to judge people for that duty is God's alone, we are called to follow his word. My brother is gay and although I don't agree with his lifestyle as he lives in sin I still love and pray for him.
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Elizabeth Bailey
William, I'd like to point out a couple of thoughts. I don't believe in everything the Old Testament teaches, for Jesus said he was here to show us the new way. Also, the Bible has been interpreted so many times that we have lost the true meaning of a lot of it. Most of us don't know everything historical in Jesus' time, and so can't properly interpret the word. You say as a Christian that it is not up to us to judge people for that duty is God's alone. Yet you are quick to point out that your brother lives in sin, which is a judgement. You are lucky if he still speaks with your judgmental, closed mind. We don't know what led Emily to her conversion, nor how long it will last. It is also judgmental to say that Emily 'took it into her heart'. It sounds like that phrase is your way of saying she did the 'right' thing. We don't know if peer pressure or judgmental preaching or fear of eternal damnation led her to her 'conversion'. Thank you.
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Sandra Lent
I believe that people can change anything, including addictions, lifestyle, religious affiliations, sexual orientation, politics and so on, if they choose to do so. They need motivation and opportunity. If prayer works (and in my life, it has) then go for it.
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Anita Ganser
You can believe anything you want, now it's talk about what science had proven 25+ years ago.
Sexual orientation is something that happens in your brain. It is chemical and effects your brain development. For 25+ yrs we have known that in autopsy the make gay brain looks exactly like a straight females brain. You might not think this would apply to lesbians but just because they had not studies related to lesbians at that time.
I worked with the pioneers of brain science at that time.
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Joy
I think if we all took more time to focus on our own messy lives and stop condemning others for their choices then maybe we really could all be a bit more happier. People change. If this is her new path in her life, so be it.
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Barbara Jean Pittman Mack
I agree 100%
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Bob
The Bible doesn't "cure" homosexuality, but can help one who no longer wants to live that life style. Many alcoholics turn to religion to help give them strength to avoid the bottle - they are not cured. If one believes that homosexuality is somehow evil and they want to resist it's temptations - religion can be helpful for strength and encouragement. Personally, I believe those people are misguided, but to each his or her own.
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Gary
I guess all you heterosexuals know the date that you 'chose' to be straight? Trust me, from experience, no amount of praying prays away the gay. You can bury it for years, but it is always there because it is a part of who you are. I am sure that is what is happening with the young woman the article is about. See what happens in 10-20 years. Second, if homosexuality is such a 'hot button' with God, how come Jesus, in 3 years of intense ministry, never mentions it? Leviticus is concerned with Canaanite tribal religious rituals. Be more concerned with how you treat each other. If you want the roadmap to salvation, Jesus lays it out in Mathew 25: 31-46. "... for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me..."
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George D Jonte-Crane
You can't "fix" something that isn't broken. No amount of rhetoric will ever convince me of anything other than I was born gay. I denied it for years - even married and had a child but I could not stay away from the truth that I knew. I could write a book on the countless hours I spent praying that God would keep me from being gay. Yes God can help you change things like addictions, And why? Because at some point you made a conscious choice to indulge to the point that the addiction took over your life. I did not choose to be attracted to men rather than women. That is something that was inbred and that cannot be changed. I have never been happier since I came to the realization that it is what it is. I am in a loving, happy, stable relationship with another man and have been for 18 years. If Emily made the do-called change, she was not lesbian to begin with and she simply saw where her attractions and orientations belonged. God helped her see where the truth was in her life - God did not help her make a change. And no argument anyone can present, no scripture reference will ever convince me otherwise. Has my realization affected my ministry? You better believe it and in a most positive and beautiful way.
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Reverand Steve
God doesn't "make" people straight or gay. She was born in the likeness of God. I'm pretty sure God is straight. Sin is what changed her into other than straight. The Bible and God was instrumental in helping her see the error of her ways. I know, sounds old fashioned but I believe that faith, God and the bible have changed a lot of people's hearts.
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Barbara Jean Pittman Mack
I agree it changed mine, I have never been gay but, I had a lot of crazy things going on. When gave God a real chance and started to study his work my life totally changed. I wanted it and was willing to die to have a better life. God came in and I understand now. I think understanding is a big key.
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Barbara Jean Pittman Mack
I don't think she said anything about gay or straight. I think she said she found a relationship that works for her and she understand more and to me she is seeking a better relationship with her God. Why is it others have to come against what is truth for her, I guess because it is not truth for them. I don't see anything wrong with making changes that you feel is good for you.
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Dr. Diana - Lea Baranovich
One can psyche himself or herself up to believe anything. If she believes that she has "prayed the gay away" then that is her reality and she has.
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JASON D BENDER
DERP!
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Patricia
Happiness is the hardest thing to accomplish in life. So stop judging and just let people be happy. Love is love and everyone has a right to It. Gay or straight just love each other. This is exactly what is wrong with this Country people need to quit shoving there beliefs down each other’s throats. Love conquers all! Have a beautiful day and love thy neighbor.
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Theresa
I agree with Patricia, we are here to love and not to judge.
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Theresa
This young lady chose to change based on reading passages in the Bible. This is factual. Her sexual preferences are her choices. This is obvious. To turn her preferences into dictation towards others on how they should live life is dogmatic. After reading many of the comments, I find many opinions, misunderstandings, judging, and condemnation.
As ministers, this is an opportunity to enter into silent prayer for your own Divine Guidance and to increase compassion in your heart and the world. It is ludicrous for anyone to think a person can change another persons thinking and/or behaviour. The only person you can change is yourself. It is a persons responsibility to love and become more loving.
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April
I think that if people believe that God made All things then God made some people homosexual and who is man/woman to think he/she can change Gods creation?
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Cate
I think this was/is her journey not anyone else's. Gay or Straight a person's relationship with Jesus, with God is theirs and not ours to judge. As Ministers we hold space with prayer, not will, so the person we are encountering can have a pure, honest,personal encounter with God.
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Rev. Nancy Willingham
I enjoyed reading so many good comments. Fewer hateful posts than usual. For those who believe anything other than straight is a sin, I think you will agree that most people are "tempted" to do things outside their moral framework, like fornication, adultery, birth control, etc. So, folks in that camp also believe that, whatever their religion, God will give them the strength to overcome whatever they believe to be temptation. And for those of us who believe variations in sexuality are natural, there is no need to "pray away" anything. Perhaps there is a third group who believe that the DESIRE for forbidden fruit can be "prayed away," and maybe they can do it. To them I say, while you are at it, please "pray away" war, poverty and all forms of oppression!
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Mark Huppertz
Predisposition does not equal inevitability. Original sin has left its mark on all of us, and we need to love Jesus more than our own unfettered desires. Don't mean if a person is attracted to the same sex should force themselves to marry the opposite sex unless they are led to, the exact same way that a heterosexual shouldn't be promiscuous just because they have a strong sex drive. It is all about relationship with Jesus, he provides a way out of temptation. A personal relationship with Jesus is the answer.
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Sundai Barahona Lawrence
God doesnt make imperfection. We see it in nature and we ooh and ahh over a flower shaped a bit different, or a tree growing crooked. We see that beauty, but somehow want people to look, think feel, and act as we do.. We do not see or resoect differences in each other. We were placed here to LOVE. I see that as our major problem We don't love ourselves, truly. We pick ourselves apart then we turn to each other and do the same. God is judge. Not us, and if you truly believe what you say and what you write, ins day you will. be in front of your God explaining, or trying to explain your intolerance and hate for His other children.
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Sundai Barahona Lawrence
Can we focus on hunger and poverty and hate, and stay out of other people's love lives? You can't pray away LOVE...its As simple as that, and those that try are on the wrong path. Let us pray for more love in our world.
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The Doctor
Christian extremists seem to be pervading these forums in mass of late. Or possibly just a few who use alt also known as sock accounts to post support for themselves. Something common with fanatics.
Homosexuality has been shown to be a common genetic sequence found in virtually all biological life. From plants to people, approximately 1 in 3 will have this trait. in humans 2 specific sections of the genome seem to be responsible though studies involving them in large numbers only used gay men so it does leave some further study needed with gay women.
These 2 sections are Xq28 and 8q12. While certainly as with all science room for debate exists its better to view this through science and have that debate rather then through faith and use that faith to judge, condemn, persecute, and belittle people for their life style.
Any form of faith basd zealotry and religious extremism needs to be challenged head on with logic and reason for those who let faith consume them have lost both and like any junkie are in dire need of rehab to be free of the programming that has made them mentally ill lunatics believing in things without sound reason.
The smarter you are, the less hold blind faith can have on you. Education, open minded study of the world and its people and their history are the foils to counter the thrusts of blind faith.
Keep in mind all the blind sheep out there, that moses did not have faith he had certainty. The moment god supposedly spoke to him and gave him hard evidence he stopped having faith. Jesus never had faith for if he truly knew himself to be a divine born entity he also had not faith but certainty. These simple facts within the biblical narrative outline the very hypocrisy of the blind faith mentality the church has pushed for nearly 20 centuries, and the jews that jesus himself challenged and was ostracized by perpetuated for centuries before.
Graze with the sheep.I will run with the wolves, walk with the lions, and crawl with the serpents before being as a mindless herbivore raised to be sheered and slaughtered.
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Rick
I agree with so many of you, some very well spoken.. You cannot Pray away Gay, silly to waste time even talking about it
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Randy
Its an individual experience , that I see Gay Christians struggle with often. And she is correct , God clearly recognizes it as a sin , but no worse a sin than any other , and I commend her dedication. This does not mean its for everybody in that situation at all. Every individual has different situations and feelings. But she shouldnt be ridiculed for her thoughts or beliefs , that goes completly against ULC thinking , and some may reconsider reading your comments and ask why you belong?
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Chuck
It is not a matter of "praying away gay". Praying is a vehicle toward certain enlightenments, and is certainly helpful. When we inhabit these bodies that we use down here to navigate the world, we unfortunately lose sight of who and what we really are.....that is, our soul and its connection to the creator. The entire point of "finding Christ" is finding your true self, and remembering who you are, because we are ALL Christ. The actual man Jesus (Yeshua) was one of us who found full enlightenment, and tried to spread the word. The word "Christ" isn't a name, its a level of enlightenment. We live on a prison planet hijacked by Satan, and have quite a bit of amnesia when we get recycled back to prison for another life.
However, if someone has a true experience of finding the light like Jesus did (their own soul), much of who they "thought" they were fades away, because it was never really true to begin with....it was just an ego created by experience in this life, mixed with biological/mental attachments.
There is no such thing as a soul that is schizophrenic, depressed, etc. These things are developed in this life with the assistance of genetic/chemical imbalances caused by other negative things such as stressors and pollution. These things can effect a mother who carries a child who is then born gay as well. And believe it or not, homosexuality is still catalogued as a mental illness....we wouldn't know that though, because culture, media, etc have normalized it.
This girl realized who she really was......nothing more.
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Anita Ganser
1974 DSM no longer categories homosexuality as a mental illness.
Depression, Schizophrenia, Bi-polar are all diseases that effect people.
I really don't understand how you are refuting science unless you don't read science.
You might try to start there. If you have questions I would be glad to help you muddle through it.
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Chuck
And do you know why........ they received pressure from the powers that be. They didn't change it based on "science", they changed it based on pressure. And I certainly don't need any assistance in this field. I am an MHA (mental health counselor) as well as a CASAC, and come from a family of science. The DSM is by no means the last word on science, and is controlled by popular opinion. Example: the recent addition of "ODD" (oppositional defiance disorder). This was literally created by the Liberal left in an attempt to call conservatives mentally ill down the line, when the two partys clash.
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biblical scholar
So... literally anything fact-based you don't agree with is a liberal conspiracy?
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Chuck
No, I'm saying more recent additions to literature are not fact based, simply falsely presented as fact based. Our media is "supposedly" fact based, and now we are finding out that is not the case on a daily basis. Never assume something claiming to be an authority is not corruptible.
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The Doctor
Chuck you seem to be all over the place with your ideas on faith and spirituality.
Christ actually means messiah more or less. And depending on how literal you take the biblical narrative about him then he certainly was not enlightened in the same sense as the word means when discussing the concept in most circles.
You seem fixated on the idea of Satan, and espouse a view not held nor described in any ancient text.
Nor do any actual Christians subscribe to the concept of reincarnation, which directly conflicts with the idea of heaven or the second coming.
And no homosexuality is not seen as a mental illness in the U.S. nor most of the world outside of some very depraved governments like in Russia.
You also seem to suggest views comparable to scientologists about the idea of amnesiac souls and that is just silly.
Are you aware some spiritual philosophies speak of two souls, one of the earthly body and one of the heavenly spirit. Which in a way science actually supports as we understand at a sub atomic level our bodies are all made of energy, thus the soul of the earthly body, and we also understand our thoughts are all based on electrical impulses, so one could say that is the energy called the heavenly soul.
Its apparent you seem to have taken a few fragments from various views and blended them into your little tirade without much actual understanding of any of the source material.
This girl didnt find herself she was brainwashed by Christian Zealots and is now but a shell with no true self within. They destroyed her heavenly soul and left only a earthly one empty and easily manipulated.
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Chuck
I am referring to original (Gnostic) Christianity which existed 300 years before Rome founded the "Church" and hijacked the message and re-wrote the Bible. I suggest you read the lost books. You can Google the Nag Hamadi Library.
Sadly, most "Christians" have no idea what the message of true Christianity really was.
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David "Mitch" Sotelo
I am convinced that the Bible is no moral guide, nor is the Quran its Hadith, the Tripitaka of the Buddhists, or the Vedas and their commentaries, humanism and science are a far higher, more practical, and saner moral code. How many children have prayed pitifully for God to change them and yet nothing happened. Are children out of touch spiritually? Not according to Jesus they aren't, they are instead the stuff of heaven. Prayer is not the answer, nor is lying to ourselves, or suddenly realizing we are bisexual and choosing for the time being one gender or the other. The Bible endorses selling your daughter into slavery, stoning to death a child that curses their father and/or mother, and total genocide in war.. It is by the spirit we are connected and not by any law which only has the power to judge and punish. A punishing attitude is condemned by Jesus, so if I were a Christian I would be more worried about my chances if I were to operate with a punishing attitude or judgment, than the gender I were to express my love to in a sexual way. If gay was such a problem you wouldn't see it in the animal kingdom according the world view of middle eastern religions, and this is demonstrably not the case. Be more concerned with having empathy, objectivity, and creativity in your life and work against the bad effects of damaged faith in love. What about gay children? "If any were to offend one of these little ones who believe in me, it were better that a millstone were hung around their necks and they were tossed into the sea." "Suffer the little ones to come to me, for of such are the Kingdom of Heaven." This idea that gay is a "sin' is not just irrational but is a large cause of bullying gay children in school (and bisexual ones as well)....
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Christian
Free Will is Free Will. You can use your time & talent to build homes for the homeless, feed & shelter abandoned animals, run a business employing 500 people, or help clean up trash at your own community park.
Or you can use your time for sinful selfish self destructive harmful behavior.
God Believes in YOU. With so much Love, to give you Freedom and your own mind and own desires.
About the only thing you need to do is make the choice:
Love & Grow. or don't.
God is hoping you make the better choice.
Enjoy your gift of free will, and try to make choices that are healthy for you now so as to benefit all your grandchildren in the future.
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Bs
Yes I believe it can work but it requires a lot of hard work resisting temptation and trusting God to help you.
Homosexuality is a sin, the bible makes it very clear. No homosexual will enter heaven. If they don't repent they will go to hell forever.
I am a non-practicing bisexual. The attractions don't go away, but that's my cross to bear, amen.
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Kathleen Guilmette
As The Bible says"Judge not lest you be judged". Or as we say in AA "Live and let live". What is so frightening about gay people anyway?
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Val jester
Actually the Bible gives us permission to be discerning. You quoted Matthew 7:1 as most liberals do without following it with Matthew 7:2. You may judge but be very careful as you will be judged in the same manner that you have judged. For most people that is a very narrow and restricting definition.
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Leslie Gray
I don't believe that it is possible to change the sexual orientation or the gender identity by any means once a child is born. Clinical evidence bears up my position on this debate, hence the spreading bans on reparative therapy and the consumer fraud conviction of the operators of the owners of JONAH just a few years ago.
Then there is the following:
The first time the term homosexual made an appearance in print is found in an 1869 German pamphlet by the Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny, published anonymously, arguing against a Prussian anti-sodomy law.
The word homosexual didn’t exist when the Bible was written. (New Testament about 2000 years ago, and parts of the Old Testament from 1,400 to 400 BCE.) It wasn’t until 1869 that Dr. Karoly Benkert, a Hungarian physician created the term by combining the homo, the Greek word for same, with the Latin sexual.
In 1886, Richard von Krafft-Ebing used the terms homosexual and heterosexual in his book Psychopathia Sexualis. Krafft-Ebing's book was so popular among both laymen and doctors that the terms "heterosexual" and "homosexual" became the most widely accepted terms for sexual orientation.
Given the fact that the terms homosexual and homosexuality did not even come into existence until 1869 it would be impossible for those terms to even be in biblical text. Therefore, neither the terms homosexual and homosexuality have any place in any bible at all.
The word homosexual did not come into use in the United States until the 1880’s. The concept homosexual didn’t exist when the Bible was written If you see the word homosexual or homosexuality in the Bible, it is because translators chose those words to reflect their own homophobic feelings and ideas.
The Hebrew word kedah means temple prostitute and is sometimes inaccurately translated as sodomite or homosexual.
In 1 Corinthians, sodomite or homosexual are sometimes used, but they are incorrect translations of the Greek malakos which means something closer to effeminate or the Greek practice of pederasty, which is older men having sex with boys and is not consensual gay sex between peers.
1 Corinthians also refers in Greek to arsenokaitai, which appears nowhere else in the Bible or in Greek writings about homoerotic sexuality, but probably means male prostitute.
Jude 7 sometimes refers to homosexual flesh that the Sodomites pursued. This is an inaccurate translation of hetera sarx which means, literally, strange flesh to describe the flesh of the angels who were sent by God to evaluate Sodom and Gomorrah.
In Timothy 1:9-10, translators sometimes use homosexual for the original Greek words, pornoi, arsenokoitai, and andrapodistai, meaning male prostitutes, males who hire male prostitutes or the slave dealers who procure them.
Ezekiel 22:28 Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says’—when the Lord has not spoken.
Your god takes great exception to having changes made to the bible. Lies are among the worst sins that anyone might commit. And, I would imagine that making changes to the bible would be a rather serious offense. What does the bible have to say about those that make changes to the holy scriptures? Let's examine a scripture that deals with that very topic.
Revelation 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
If I were you and I believed in Christianity, I'd be much more concerned about the accuracy of the teachings you accept and who you accept those teachings from.
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace to the hearers.
Proverbs 6:16-19 16 There are six things the Lord hates,seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
There is no such thing as a white lie.
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Yes, I repeated this last one for obvious reasons.
Ezekiel 22:28 Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says’—when the Lord has not spoken.
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Fenix O'Dell
Honestly I am surprised at some comments on here from a group that is supposed to be open minded and accept-full of all religions, this group is based on mutual respect for one another and it is part of what you agree to when becoming a minister of whatever your chosen faith is as part of this organization. I am glad this woman was able to be happy with her chosen path, but this is what she feels is the right path for her it has no bearing on anyone elses, and should not be stated as "cured her being a lesbian" All faiths view this issue differently and even the ones that consider it a "sin" should mind their own business since unless they are without sin (which in those religions they are all sinners) then they have no right to judge someone elses perceived sin as it is between the person and the deity they worship. When commenting on things like this I would just like to remind all ministers to be respectful, it is bad enough we have to fight the rest of the world, this is supposed to be a safe space for everyone, being judgemental and closed minded is inappropriate behavior. And would ask those that are not ministers to think before they speak
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Elizabeth Bailey
Lorewriter, you took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you.
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Right Reverend Desmond Morris
No one can help the way they are born, or the way they feel, the Lord loves all his children no matter what way they swing. I am a heterosexual but who am I to judge others, everybody that walks this earth is entitled to feel loved and not be Judged by their piers.
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Val jester
In my opinion, Liberal and conservative Christians approach scripture and consequently their respective political ideology from two different directions. The conservative Christian opens Scripture and what they read helps to form their political beliefs. Liberal Christians tend open the Bible with a preset political ideology. When they find that Biblical disagrees with their political ideology, they engage in amazing feats of hermeneutical gymnastics in their attempts to convince others that the Bible really does not say what it says. The “great commission” for many liberal Christians becomes a crusade against Biblical inerrancy instead of the pure and simple gospel of Jesus and Him Crucified. Many conservative Christians ignore the admonition of Matthew 7:2 and are more judgmental than loving. Sadly many Christians mistake “God loves everyone” as tolerance towards behavior that Scripture clearly describes as sinful. God indeed loves every single person. God is also a just God that will not be mocked (Galatians 6:7) This loving God will send people to hell that he loves dearly but refused accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and to follow his gospel as set forth in his word. (Justification and Sanctification) Biblical precepts are not open to emotion or political opinion. It simply does not matter what you want to believe. What does scripture say? How does Jesus want each of us to live? After healing the soul and the body, Jesus often said: Go and sin no more...” There is a righteousness that Gods righteousness requires God to require of each and every one of his children. This righteousness and these answers are clear and available with an open Bible at the foot of the cross with a humble and contrite heart.
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mike
God made men and He made women, each for the other. Jesus came to save us from ALL sin but the choice is ours to live like HE wants us to.
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Anita Ganser
We just take into account for the audience the writers of the Bible were talking to and what in what context they were soaking. We know this was not holy dictation.
Did Good not love the people who lived before Christ? They didn't know Jesus.
Is God so small to you that he can only fit in your tiny box? I don't recall anywhere it says in the Bible that God loves only Christians... Did I miss a chapter?
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Val jester
Anita Rogers, How do you know that the Bible is not the word of God. The box you are trying to put God in is tiny. Do you believe that he does not have the sovereignty to have the Bible say EXACTLY what he wants it to say; regardless of its origins. The Holy Scripture is sufficient for encouragement and guidance for ALL mankind. Once again, the precepts in scripture are not open to political belief or opinion. If you don’t want to believe the Bible, that’s your choice.
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Dan Atatakai
Val - Please remember that your belief that the Bible IS the "Word of God" is your personal faith-based belief and not necessarily fact. If you believe it to be fact, please offer any empirical evidence to prove it as such.
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Val jester
Hebrews 11:1 2 Timothy 3:16
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Dan Atatakai
The Bible does not qualify as empirical evidence. To claim that is nothing more than circular reasoning. One could do the same thing with Hinduism, Jainism, Islam and other theologies, but I am pretty certain you do not think that Brahma is the "One True God", right?
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Val jester
Yes I believe you may have missed that. Jesus Christ answered “I am the way, the Truth and the Life. No one come to the Father except through Me.” John 14:6. That means that access to God the Father is accomplished by accepting Jesus Christ (Christian) as your personal savior. God loves the sinner but the Christian is eternally secure. Unless you don’t believe this scripture.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Val Jester, Jesus' statement "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father except through me" certainly wasn't referring to his physical person or Jesus himself because nobody, in two thousand years of Christianity, has ever walked through the physical body or person of Jesus to go anywhere, much less to God. He was referring, obviously, to the spirit of truth through which people must go to get to God, but that spirit isn't limited to Christianity or Jesus and is found in many other places. Mahatma Gandhi had the spirit of Christ, as have many other people throughout history. Also, the Bible doesn't only contain God's words to people, but has many human statements and prejudices and ideas as well, and it is only common sense and discernment to distinguish between the two and not lump everything in the Bible together, indiscriminately, under the heading "God's word". The Bible is like a gold mine, but everything isn't solid gold in a gold mine and you have to dig through all of the dirt and rocks to get to the gold and everything isn't solid truth in the Bible and you have to dig through all of the human words there to get at the truth. This doesn't make the Bible "just the word of man, instead of the word of God" because truth is even more true when you have removed the lies and prejudices from it, as gold is more golden when all of the dirt and crud is removed from it.
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JASON D BENDER
Dude! Those were some beautifully put together thoughts and a very clear, awesome and well thought out way of communicating the concept to people that "it's not all the unadulterated word of god!" - some of it is... (like the do unto others as you would have then do unto you. Some of it is common sense: (women should go away when they are on the rag.) Some of it is just downright stupid... (Eve from the rib of Adam.) and some of it is not just bullshit but is downright morally offensive." (Like the "its better to sell your daughter off as a sex slave than...whatever" part... or the "you can beat your slave as much as you want, so long as he can move a bit 48 hours later" part...)
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Bill Robinson
If this woman was in fact Gay, then she is still Gay. You cannot "pray away" your genetic makeup!
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Benoit
Bill Robinson, Your comment is the most sane. And if the Genetic makeup is gay, then God designed her as a Gay person, man wrote Bible and said Gay is sin, but if God created it Gay, then Gay is as perfect as God saw her when he created her. Asking her to "Pray it away" is the Sin. Living the hypocrisy that she is not gay is the sin.
Why do you people hate Gays anyways? I guess I will never understand because I believe all God's creations are Perfect and you believe God can be wrong sometimes and create imperfect beings. Who is blaspheming, Me or You?
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tzakem
So God created all of us and God doesn’t make mistakes. Then who are we to say that what God has created is not good enough?? Love one another and blessed light of the creator shine on all.
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John Maher
WE are WHO WE are and NO OPINIONS of IGNORANCE will EVER HELP or CHANGE ANYONE, DUMP DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP and the RNC/GOP VILLAGE IDIOTS
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Val jester
Bless you heart John. What a great intellectual and Biblical based reply. Start with the Bible. Not your own emotions.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Val Jester, I have started with the Bible and not my own emotions, but are we supposed to just stare at the verses in the Bible and not think about what we are reading and put those words into context and use some reason and discernment in understanding them? God doesn't want dummies or robots as His hearers or listeners or followers, but people who use a brain cell or many of them once in a while or actually quite often and every time and don't just park their brains at the church doors or before opening the Bible and forget to pick them up on their way out or after they finish reading. It is also honoring and worshipping God to use the brains that He gave us to figure some things out for ourselves and not just have to be spoon fed everything that we need to know or believe. It is just stating fact that nobody has walked through the physical body of Jesus in two thousand years of Christianity to go anywhere, much less to God. That isn't just an intellectual statement. Show me someone who has and I'll retract my statement. So, it is equally obvious that the spirit of truth is what Jesus was talking about when He said "nobody comes to the Father, but by me", and that spirit is found in many places and people, such as in Mahatma Gandhi. God wasn't leaving people without any light whatsoever before Jesus came along and doesn't leave them without any light even today outside of Christianity, but makes His spirit of truth available and accessible to them. Even Jesus said "I have other sheep that not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to my voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd" (John 10:16) and so even He acknowledges the spirit of truth outside of Christianity ("this fold"). The Bible has much truth in it, but it isn't all true, as discernment reveals to us (or me and other people, anyway, even if not to you).
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drrgrivera
What do you think? Is it really possible to “pray the gay away”?
Answering the above quest-
OF COURSE, GOD CAN FIX ANYTHING.
HOWEVER....THE WOMEN IN QUESTION, [CHOSE] AGAIN AND AGAIN BASED ON MULTIPLE INFLUENCES WHAT SHE WILL CHOOSE TO DO..
GIVEN SUFFICIENT REASONS, PEOPLE CHOOSE TO EITHER..... CHANGE BEHAVIOR OR NOT CHANGE.
IT'S THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE FOR OR AGAINST EXISTING DESIGNS FOUND IN THE HUMAN CONDITION GOD HAS SUBJECTED US ALL UNDER.
WE MUST ALL REVEAL WHAT WE PREFER TO DO WITH WHATEVER WE'VE BEEN ENTRUSTED WITH.
We reap what we sow.
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Arif Khan
Religions are man made, all religions destroy God, they make Him/Her/It look like an imbecil. Can't make up his mind, don't know what is right and what is wrong, is constantly having a hissy fit over what He/She/It created to begin with. Religions preach divisive ways, they distinguish between you and I, they separate they categorize and they create chaos. Love which is God has no divisions, has no distinction, does not condemn or ridicule. God created all, so how can one is superior to another? God will not condemn a gay any more than I would condemn a limb on my body.
Stop the insanity of religious dogma, Focus on Love which is the end all be all God.
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Chuck
I hear a lot of people quoting "science" as defense for their lazy opinions backed by nothing. So let me explain something to you......... science died a few decades ago. There is no longer such a thing as "science" based on actual hypothesis result by means of duplicated result. I come from a family of scientists in different areas, and they all say the same thing. It has been hijacked by popular opinion and mainly Left leaning ideals, because the real wealthy of this planet took over the industry, and geared it to their own twisted beliefs. These wealthy are also very much on the Left of politics, and are actually communists. One major example would be the Rockefellers taking over Western Medicine and all information involved. Google the "Flexner Report".
Being someone with a degree in "psychology", I can tell you it is absolute BULLSHIT. It is essentially an invented arm of medicine that runs off of nothing but speculation, and has no tracable result in repeated observance.
People who quote the DSM as the authority on mental illness are horribly mistaken and gullible. I am a mental health counselor and a credentialed substance abuse counselor, and I assure you, the DSM is bullshit.
The reality is that homosexuality is a form of schizophrenia, as well as a biological condition of the brain. It is not natural at all, and the fact that it is promoted and put on a pedestal is unbelievable. It is the equivelant of labeling schizophrenia as an alternative lifestyle. It is not. It is mental illness.
However, in this batshit crazy culture we are in it is now wrong to point out mental illness. Nobody hates the mentally ill, we love them, and want them to get better.
I find it amazing that people think it "normal" that someone identify as something other than what they biologically are. That is a smack in the face to mother nature and God. Period!
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Ralph Miller
Well said Chuck.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Chuck, are animals ever schizophrenic? If so, how would that ever happen to them? If not, then homosexuality can't be the result of schizophrenia because many species of animals practice homosexual behavior: (1) rams, (2) laysan albatrosses, (3) bottlenose dolphins, (4) bonobos, (5) cock of the rock, (6) African lions, (7) waterfowl and penguins, (8) western gulls, (9) giraffes, (10) dragonflies, (11) west Indian manatees. 1,500 other species of animals that engage in homosexual behavior are listed at www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/1500-animal... How do you account for all of theses instances of homosexual behavior among non-schizophrenic animals if schizophrenia is the cause of homosexuality or account for their schizophrenia, if you still claim that as the cause of homosexuality? Also, animals never commit any sins, since they don't have the moral sense to enable them to do so. So, homosexuality couldn't be a sin, for them or us, but only natural.
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Carl Elfstrom
I've known a lotcof people of every imaginable sexual orientation... and then some. I've studied and investigated such people for many years. And I've concluded that many people are of different sexual orientations for different reasons, and are affected by them in different ways. Regardless of the reasons why most people are afflicted by the heterosexual(straight) perversion and mental illness, by far most people seem content being whatever they happen to be. The question is not to be or not to be, but being comfortable with what you are. It seems more likely schizophrenic for ones sexual orientation to change than those who stay the same. Then too there are those who are on deep seated guilt trips over what authority figures brain washed them into believing as children, all because their god and religion was just as screwed up and perverted as your god and religion seem to be. You might not have known it but my God sodomizes your god every day. And it's not out of homosexual love (which is the truist and purist of all forms of love), but simply because my God wants to dominate and humiliate your perverted god. He makes your god cry like a baby, and beg for more. Furthermore, human beings aren't simply biological beings, fulfilling a need to procreate. That can be done with a test tube now, so men and women don't ever have to engage in perverted acts anymore.There are also those who belong to groups of people who are nothing like themselves, but they feel an overwhelming desire to be accepted by them anyway, so they convince themselves that they've changed(like a method actor(one who becomes the parts he plays. All too often though method actors lose sight of their true identities and get lost in living a fictitious role for years.
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Val jester
May the Lord bless you. May the Lord keep you. May the Lord make His face to shine on you and give you peace.
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Sandra Smith
She is bi. Get over yourselves about using man made religion. The Bible is a guide to happiness....so being with the same sex is happiness and exceptable by God. Think he would have done something about us by now...nooooo, cause loving who you love is pure happiness and fine by God.
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Val jester
Ever read Romans Chapter 1? Please tell me how this chapter does not say what it says.
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The Doctor
Id say personally whatever bibilical myth you wish to use is moot as this is a forum for ministers of all faiths and to have a real discussion with radical christian extremists is impossible.
To come here to the ULC forums and act as if only christians are right tells me your not really here to discuss it with an open mind, just an open book that is used in place of actual thought.
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Val jester
An open mind is one thing. A drafty mind quite another.
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Val jester
Either you believe the Bible or you don’t. If not, don’t play at Christianity. Also, you might want to look up your usage of the term myth and your misapplication to Romans 1. You may choose to disagree with the Bible...
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Rev. John D. Partin
Val Jester, how about just believing what is actually from God in the Bible (love, understanding, acceptance, nonjudgment, and forgiveness) and not so much or at all believing what is obviously from man in the Bible (homophobia, bigotry against Cretans---Titus 1:12---and other people, judgment, narrow and small mindedness, intolerance, hate, misunderstanding, and unforgiveness) and separating the wheat from the chaff, as the Lord will do and expects us to follow His example? That isn't playing at Christianity, but actual Christianity, because many things in the Bible are obviously not from God and are from men, and God expects us to know the difference and not treat them the same way. Many Bible writers put their two cents in the Bible, too, and passed it off as the "Word of God", in order to get it accepted and believed. Romans 1 is mythological when it talks about "God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another" and the rest of Paul's homophobic rant! You do have a closed mind when, the same as a racist who won't budge from his racism, no matter how much he is shown how wrong and immoral it is, you won't budge from your homophobic bigotry and narrow mindedness about the Bible, no matter how much you are shown how wrong and immoral that is. An open mind isn't the same as a drafty mind, which holds on to no ideas or beliefs whatsoever, but a mind that can listen to and accept new ideas and truths, even when they contradict long held beliefs. You want to confuse an open mind with a drafty mind, in order to claim and make it seem as though "that is what all open minds are" and make your own position seem "reasonable". We just disagree with the bad parts of the Bible, not the good parts. Read the above.
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Dennis
This is a very personal story for Emily. I think she did it in a smart way, talking like an advocate and the changing her tone. That seems to really have caught people's attention. Videos and media are always setting a hook and surprise. That's why we have so many anti-phishing measures because people get fooled all the time. If she titled Love Is The Bible, it would have gotten not as many views.
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Jim
True Christians would understand that above all, Jesus died for all humans. He did not say it is OK to cast stones at people you do not understand or agree with, he let he who is without sin cast that first stone and if there is a perfect person walking among us then that person would more than likely be the second coming and we could just simply ask - why does God make gay people? If you are have judgmental attitudes and hateful thoughts of others in your heart and or mind, then you are fooling yourself by trying to cast light on someone else when you so desperately need the blessings of our lord and savior. I appreciate that this woman has found that she was never gay and that, like most people, at some point in their life has experimented with same sex activities - that is just a normal step in finding who we truly are, but make not mistake, being gay is not a choice and to think that someone would choose to be among the most hated group of people in the world is just sheer ignorance.
Check yourself and not your neighbor or fellow man and woman kind.
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rabbi jim
Greetings all! Wait a minute folks. Gay, Lesbian, Trans Gender, is a CHOICE that people make. It is not forced on us. God could not care less if we are gay. We are all God's people and He loves us truly. I think God says 'be the person you were meant to be, but be good to and loving of all' God is our Father and we are His children. Stop inflicting religion on gay people. I say, 'be proud to be Gay, Lesbian, or Trans Gender and except your CHOICE openly and respectfully. Shalom, and have a wonderful and joyous new year!
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Dan Atatakai
Jim - out of curiosity, why do you think it is a matter of choice? Did you choose to be heterosexual? It has been found by numerous studies that it is caused by hormonal development during prenatal development stages.
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Ralph Miller
Nobody's born that way.that's just an excuse people tell themselves to try to normalize that lifestyle.
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Dan Atatakai
Ralph - What evidence do you have that it is nothing but an excuse? You know homosexuality is found throughout nature, right? Given humanity is part of nature, it would surprise me if humans did NOT have homosexual populations like more than 1500 different mammalian species on this little blue marble where we live.
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Ralph Miller
Atatakaidanjp:more excuses.or in your case a diversionary tactic.If you feel this is normal why do you feel the need to defend that lifestyle.Be honest with yourself,you choose to live that way.You have the choice to love who you want,be with whomever you want.To say your born that way implies you have no choice in what you do,also implieing your a robot or incapable of thinking for yourself.Now you want to compare yourself to animals...REALLY! SO now your excuse is "Animals do it,so it must be normal"
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Dan Atatakai
Ralph - I see you have problems with reading. I said in nature - therefore, it is natural. You also do know that we are animal, right? We are mammalian animals. How are we any more or any less? There is no comparison. You are acting like Chocolate Ice Cream, for example, is not Ice Cream because you only believe in Vanilla Ice Cream.
I choose to live in an ethical manner, what benefits "the tribe". I did not choose my sexual orientation which was developed during prenatal development. This is why I am attracted to women and not men sexually. If you think it is a choice, then when did you choose to be heterosexual? Yes, I do love who I want to love, but my attraction is toward the opposite sex where homosexual people are attracted, naturally, toward the same gender.
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Val jester
Pray GODS intervention in stopping, thwarting and exposing any civil unrest in America, please join me in these perilous times in prayer!! Heavenly Father, I come to You now in the Name of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Heavenly Father, I pray that You will keep America under Your wings and help her to continue to abide under the shadow of the Almighty God. Heavenly Father, I pray for the President of this nation, all of the Executive Branch of this nation and all members of Congress and the Senate of this nation, all of the leadership of all local, state, regional, and federal agencies, commissions and governments of this nation. I ask You to guide and direct the leadership of this nation in every way. (Romans 13:1-4) Lord, thank You for Your protective hand that has shielded our nation. Thank You Lord for hearing the prayers and requests of Your people on behalf of this nation. Heavenly Father, I pray in the Name of Your Son, Jesus, asking You to give us divine protection for Your people of this nation, according to John 16:23. I'm asking You, Lord God, to ensure the safety of Your people and to keep our nation from harm's way and provide protection from plans of destruction that have been plotted against us. I pray Father, that you would extend a hand of protection against all of the destructive forces of terrorism against Your people and this nation. I pray that You will protect this nation from evil attacks or acts of terrorism, and stop the aggressors or terrorists that attempt to bring destruction against our nation. I pray that You would give wisdom and discernment to those who provide protection for Your people and this nation. Help everyone in authority to be alert to signs of wrongdoing in this nation. I pray that You will provide insight to national, international and local authorities of this nation, to act swiftly, to avert all danger, protecting American lives and property. Guide the authorities of this nation in efforts to seek out and eradicate terrorists. Enable the military forces of this nation to become swift, powerful and accurate in any action of intelligence gathering and security. Heavenly Father, I ask You to loose Your mighty warring and guardian angels to expose and destroy any potential dangers being planned against America. I ask You Lord, to continue to bless and strengthen this nation. Heavenly Father, You are our Refuge and Stronghold in times of trouble. So Lord I pray, that You not take your hand off America and that Your people will dwell safely in this land, and prosper abundantly according to Your will. I submit this to Your Hand, Lord. I give You the Praise and I give You the Glory, FOR THE GLORY IS ALL YOURS that You hear my prayers and my supplications. In Jesus Name i pray. Amen
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Rev. Nancy Willingham
A wise man said, (sorry, forgot who, Shakespaere?) "The man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." A Course in Miracles says, "There can never be a universal theology, but there can and must be a universal experience." And this quote from Rumi, "There is a field out beyond differences, I will meet you there." I invite you all to meet on the field of service. As ministers, we are servants. Surely we can agree on that much? This issue has hit a nerve that has sparked a lot of emotional responses and theological bickering. Universal Life has no theology. It offers us a mutual support community and tools to be better servants. So let's concentrate on how to better serve our different groups. Save your breath (fingers?) trying to convert other ministers to your way of thinking. Save your heart from the strain of attacking those who disagree. Save your energy for those whom you have been called to serve.
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John Owens
There is not any real biological reason to be attracted to one's own gender, but there are plenty of biological factors to attract one to certain members of the opposite gender. Some of you think it is outlandish to think that a person's preference can change, but to realize that it can seems perfectly logical to me. Everyone's preferences change a little bit as they grow in age and experience. I think it is just a matter of degrees. I am 60 now, still hetero, but the little things between a man and woman that really float my boat are just not the same as they were when I was 20. People can and do change, sometimes just as a result of exposure to something they have not known. We, as people tend to like the same or similar things as our peers (whomever they may be). If we change peer groups, it stands to reason some of the things we desire or value will change as well.
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Dan Atatakai
John - a quick correction on your first statement. "There is not any real biological reason to be attracted to one's own gender." Studies have found at Northwestern University, University of North Dakota, Tokyo School of Medicine, as well as numerous schools in the Scandinavian and Northern European regions have found that homosexuality has at least one source: Prenatal hormonal development.
Regarding age, yes, isn't it horrid sometimes how we change as we get older? I can so relate to your statement!
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John Owens
I think you should read the synopsis of that study more carefully. They have found some stuff that MAY suggest some correlation. Not the same thing.
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As a old lesbian... HAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahaha.... She's just Bi! HA HA ha!
Wow! Now there's a mature comment!
Christ died for ALL sin. When she chose a relationship with God over sin, He delivered her. It's NOT ABOUT a religion.
The references to same sex attraction in the Bible came from the place where procreation was important to sustain tribes. It's not about sex it's about growing a nation who believes in one God.
It's not a sin.
Anita, read Romans chapter 1. I will be most interested in your thoughts or your hermeneutical gymnastics that you will perform to try and convince me that Romans 1 does say what it says.
Val - Romans 1:26- has to do with the Roman pagan fertility rituals which were held annually to the goddess Diana, and it had nothing to do with homosexuality.
You hit the nail right on the head Gina. Can't say it any simpler than that.
Oh please ... if Jesus came back now he would be shocked and dismayed by "Christians" - he taught love and said judge not ... his love was love based freely given to all, not fear based full of judgment and a holier then thou - to be delivered one would commit random acts of kindness, love freely, release all judgments and be Christ like.
Love your comments. Love is the answer and the most powerful weapon. Loving with pure hearts and not fear-based for there is no fear if we truly believe.
That was beautiful
exactly. It’s fine when someone becomes aware that they themselves have strayed from Spirit. It is wrong to claim everyone did, it’s something one cannot know.
Homosexuality is something that challenges our limited human understanding. God is so vast and can find countless ways to challenge us to truly KNOW Him. I believe homosexuality is one of them.
The folks who claim to know God and His Will for all by simply reading the Bible have not likely taken on any medical coursework either, which shows how chromosomes don't always perfectly align as a definite male or female at conception… the Creator’s Own doing.
What could be the "perfect purpose" for that?
Perhaps to help us realize our spiritual nature, all of us are just "spiritual beings" having a human experience.
So well put Debbie. I believe that God loves all people, gay, straight, trans, whatever. He said give him your heart and love Him. And 2nd love one another. I don't think that He condemns based on sexuality. We all sin, we don't repent every time. There's no way we are all so perfect. That, I believe, is where grace comes in. As a Christian, who is educated, I also know that the Bible has been touched by man too many times, and I don't accept that some of it has not been changed to suit man's purpose. All I know is this I love God, and I love everyone.
With all due respect to your comment Gina, Love is not a sin. God is an image that we the people have given to God, the qualities that we believe God should have we pin them onto God.
God is Love. Love is a God given right. To Love and cherish till death do us part. Isn't it what we say when we join in matrimony? Yet who stays forever in marriage now a days.
With all due respect, Love is respecting the dignity and beliefs of all people, not just the people that we want.
Your Truth is right but so is the Truth of others. Our God given birth right is to be our best self. That is all, and nothing less.
Love who you Love, your Love is not my business, my business is that all people are supported in the decisions they make, not who they Love. Love belongs to all.Just as Life is bestowed upon us, so is Love. With Gentle Thoughts, -Pastor Ketta
Thank you for your sane and humane answer to this question.
Your comment is almost entirely antithetical to scripture.
many of us accept Christ as their Savior and God as their belief in creation and remain Gay or Lesbian or Trans or Bi. Many of us do not, and none of us have sprouted horns, become less humanistic, or loving or caring or spiritual than the next person. Because this woman also chose alcohol and drugs and a negative thought pattern that was changed by religion does not mean she is not also drawn to women. I don't doubt her account but her emphasis for her redemption is on the wrong aspect of herself.
Yes it is, because you seem unaware many here are of varied beliefs and do not give care nor credence to the bibilical mythos as other then one of many to study as a scholar of all forms of faith.
The man Jesus son of marie and joseph does have some evidence to support he existed. Specifically roman documents. We know romans loved to build up all those they captured and executed so have no doubt they would of shouted jesus being a demi god they had killed from the roof tops if that was even a remote rumor about the man during the actual time of his life.
The Christ aka messiah is a figure of jewish prophecy that rabbinical scholars then and now agree jesus did not meet the requirements to be. One of those is bringing world peace within his life time. Since we can all agree we have not had world peace it tends to support the view of said scholars that the messiah of their prophecy has yet to come.
If you wish to believe a man suffered so you wont go ahead but if your going to come to the ULC forums where all faiths have equal standing and none is automatically the one true faith.
A man was not tortured and crucified for me 2 millennia ago. He was tortured for being an outspoken liberal minded person decrying the unjust society he lived in. I certainly am sad such cruelty happened then and still does all over the world today. The fact it does supports the view Jesus was not the messiah.
Open the Bible. Read the Bible. Believe what is say. How radical. Don’t let Scripture get in the way of what you want to believe.
On the contrary...I feel the love of God every day of my life. There is nothing you can say that will change my knowledge that God loves me unconditionally and made me a wonderful lesbian for life. I am grateful everyday. Perhaps you were using a lesbian relationship for a certain reason of your own that has nothing to do with God.
Excellent, Gina!
I was be thinking the same thing
That pray away the gay is just religious mumbo jumbo and bigotry. It makes ZERO difference in ones path. LOL
Cure supposes there's an ailment...so why would God "cure", if one is not needed? Before the "Christians" give their hateful Christians responses, you're wrong, if you think I'm LGBTQ. Nobody appointed me to the morality police, so I won'the judge and accept people as they are.
Agreed!
Amen! Lol
Haaa, haaaa! You are probably right, but she is probably also brainwashed!
I've blasted the ULC, on Twitter, for even giving BS like this any oxygen; it does a REAL disservice to the LBGTQ community. WTF is the ULC thinking? They might as we entertain the debate (from the KKK websites) that blacks are, according to the Bible, a sub-human race.
Clyde, you clearly haven't payed much attention. The ULC is insanely pro-gay they get yelled at by homophones in tons of blogs. There's a pink triangle in the logo for pete's sake! hahahaha
The ULC is also insanely anti Bible.
Well said, Val!
Val Jester, then what in the Hell are you doing here in the ULC, if you don't believe in their way of doing things?! Go find some place that does it your way and stick with them, as you tell people in here to do, since you are never going to convince ULC or anyone else to go along with you!!
https://youtu.be/DSXJzybEeJM
It’s not in the natural order of the world to be same sex attraction, much less the fact that Sin is Sin! It’s simply wrong! Without Holiness, no one will see God! His words not mine! Sorry!
It's a little odd to argue about what is "natural" on a website, on the internet, on your computer. If you are trying to argue that there's nothing natural about it, it occurs quite a bit in nature. Your computer, however, is totally unnatural; god doesn't make computers. So if you believed in your convictions, you probably shouldn't be here.
And that my dear friends is a shining example of convoluted and tortured logic.
I know you are, but what am I?
Amen to that Sister!!!
Any of our cruel comments or thoughts are easy to come when you delve into her life, yet, is mine/yours that different? Take 'sex' out and put in its place smoking, drinking, crazy driving, spending, stealing, and we see the same...take your love...L-O-V-E that fills the air with perfume and lights an ugly hallway to clear beauty and keep the freshness of that just for God and no other to become close to that; this is a relationship with God, our creator. The wonders of me as stardust and the beauty of my abilities that came from the Creator, now that is not just a relationship though it is real LOVE.