Leave your "they/thems" at the door, folks. That's the message from one Catholic Diocese amid a set of new church rules that are causing a stir in Iowa.
The Diocese of Des Moines will soon be instituting a suite of controversial gender identity policies encompassing everything from preferred pronouns to dress codes to bathroom usage.
The policies, which will take effect later this month, will be instituted in every parish, school, church, and charity under the control of the Diocese of Des Moines, and will apply to every employee, volunteer, and churchgoer within.
In the documents, the Diocese claims that these policies are guided by “unconditional love” and intended to help their LGBTQ members and assist those experiencing gender dysphoria to get proper care.
However, critics don’t exactly see it that way.
No Pronouns Allowed
The documents say that anyone experiencing gender dysphoria is "unconditionally loved by Jesus Christ and by the Church."
The policy papers argue that gender affirmative care is “not genuine compassion, that gender reassignment surgery is “mutilation,” and that everyone “should acknowledge and accept their sexual identity.”
Instead of gender affirming care, the Diocese instead is instituting a series of policies designed to force those experiencing gender dysphoria to present as the sex they were assigned at birth. Per local news station KCCI, some of those policies include:
- No one may designate a "preferred pronoun" in speech or writing, when related to minister activities
- Everyone must use the bathroom or locker room that matches their biological sex
- Everyone should follow the dress code or uniform according to their biological sex
- Participation in school sports or activities must be consistent with biological sex
- No person can have on-site, or distribute, medications meant for gender reassignment
Critics Push Back
LGBTQ advocates say this is a pretty twisted way of expressing love, and many weren't shy about voicing their criticism.
A state LGBTQ group likened the policies to "conversion therapy":
Meanwhile, a state senator offered her thoughts on the developments and how Jesus would handle the situation:
The Gender War Goes On
The war between Christian conservatives and the LGBTQ community has seemingly reached a boiling point in recent years, and teachers, libraries, and churches are all getting sucked into the skirmish over how to affirm – or deny – the gender identities of queer kids.
LGBTQ rights advocates argue that gender affirming care is necessary for trans youth to be their most authentic selves, and the Association of American Medical Colleges tends to agree.
In a statement, they wrote that “efforts to restrict the provision of gender-affirming health care for transgender individuals will reduce health care access for transgender Americans, promote discrimination, and widen already significant health inequities.”
On the other side of the argument are many conservative Christians who believe that it is reckless and dangerous to give gender affirming care to children. Those inclinations should be squashed, not reinforced, they say.
Similarly, the Diocese says their goal here is to help children.
What is your reaction? How do you think the proposed policies will affect transgender youth?
71 comments
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
If anyone wants to know why you people want no part of religion, this is why. The Mormon's are having the same problem. They are seeing religion as a way of control and extorting money from followers. Why would any young person today want to be a part of it? This is just another example of how mean Christians are to others.
Of course if the church changes their position on things like this it means the Bible and God's words are wrong. Either way the church loses.
-
John D. Partin
This is just another example of how mean false "Christians" are to others because no true Christians, who are actually following Christ's teachings to love your neighbor as yourself, and do unto others as you would have others do unto you, and whatsoever you have done unto one of the least of these, my brethren, you have done unto me, are extorting money from followers or seeing or using religion as a way of control. Do you really not see or know of any of that going on among non-Christians or anti-Christians? If so, you haven't been looking very hard or at all because it is happening all the time and down through history and was done and is still done by the actual non-Christians and anti-Christians, under their pretenses, in the Christian Church, too. The solution to all of that isn't getting rid of even what little Christianity we have, but getting much more actual Christianity in the world.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@John D. Partin People today look at what 2,000 years of Christianity has done to society and are ready for a change. As people have become less Christian in the world people have become more united, there have been less wars, people have become more educated, women, people of colors and who were born with sex differences who were once the target of Christian attacks are living much happier lives.
John people today are looking at all of the evil Christians have promoted and want nothing to do with religion. Woman don't what to dedicate their lives to religious services being obedient to God and the men in the church. And have you looked at the number of priests in the world? Over the past 25 years there are 50% less priests in the world. Young see Christians and Christianity as evil, controlling and just a big farce. Just look at how people have taken a vow to be a servant of God and Christ who are rapists, child molesters, and thieves. Would you want to be associated with such a crowd? Young people and many older people sure don't.
-
John D. Partin
Again, look at 2,000 years of what many people's not practicing Christianity, and not loving their neighbors as themselves, and not doing unto others as they would have others do unto them, and doing to the least of his brethren what they wouldn't do to Christ have done to society, but how can you blame Christianity for what people who aren't even following Christianity do? On the other hand, look at 2,000 years of what many people's practicing Christianity and following Christ's teachings have done to society, and how can you and others indiscriminately lump those who are following Christ's teachings in with those who aren't following Christ's teachings and call all of it "evil, controlling, and just a big farce" and throw out the baby with the bathwater?!! How are many people's not living up to their vow to be good servants of Christ and, instead, being rapists and child molesters Jesus' fault, instead of just the fault of those people who aren't living up to their vow? But what about those who do live up to their vow, which you have chosen to ignore and not give any attention to at all, which is a very lopsided and prejudicial picture?!! You have to be really going through life with your eyes and ears and mind closed not to see any benefits of Christianity to the world at all!! Ask any children who are receiving cancer treatment from St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital and ask their parents if they think that Christianity has been of any benefit to society at all! Ask those who are receiving treatment in all other Catholic and other denominational hospitals if they think that Christianity is beneficial to society at all. Ask those who have received and are receiving any assistance from The Salvation Army and Catholic Charities and other Christian care organizations during Hurricane Katrina and other natural disasters, homelessness, and economic troubles if they think that Christianity is beneficial to society, and see what they tell you, especially when anti-Christian people, such as yourself, wouldn't have done anything for any of these people! There weren't any hospitals or care agencies before Christianity and sick and dying people were just left by the side of the road or outside of town to die and not burden other people with their problems because there were only unChristian people, such as yourself, then, who didn't care about them. So, all hospitals and care agencies exist today because of Christianity. There are colleges and universities in the world today because the Catholic Church kept learning alive in the Dark Ages and began Catholic universities. This also contradicts the anti-Christian propaganda that "the Church doesn't do anything for people between birth and death, and is only pro-birth". Abolitionism was a Christian movement against the indifference to and support of slavery by worldly people.The list of the benefits of Christianity to the world go on and on, despite all of the examples of false "Christians" trying to undermine and obstruct that benefit. True Christians haven't promoted evil, but only false "Christians" have promoted evil. 50% less priests in the world than 25 years ago is the result of worldliness in the Church, which is the cause of all of those things that you just condemned false "Christians" doing, but you can't have your cake and eat it, too, and your worldliness without the results of that worldliness! There haven't been less wars and more unity in the world because of any turning away from Christianity, but more wars and disunity, as the two world wars, and other wars, and divisions in the world prove. People haven't become more educated without Christianity when your and other people's "thinking" that "Christianity hasn't been of any benefit to society" and similar nonsense are the result of that "better education". Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of God, but only he who does the will of my father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out devils, and in your name do many wonderful works'. Then I will say to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers. By their fruits you will know them.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@John D. Partin Thank you for your reply, I'm thinking about what you have written. Can you explain something to me I'm not familiar with. Can you define for me what a true-Christian is, a false Christian and a non-Christian? When you look at someone how do you know if they are a true Christian or a false-Christian? Are there all priests and ministers true-Christians? God chose these people to be messengers of God.
Looking forward to your reply.
-
John D. Partin
Douglas Robert Spindler, Jesus himself defined what a true Christian is and that is: "By this will all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another" and "By their fruits you will know them". Being a true Christian requires following Christ's teachings of loving your neighbor as yourself, doing unto others as you would have others do unto you, loving your enemies, and doing unto all other people as we would do unto Christ himself. Nobody who doesn't follow all of those teachings consistently and ask forgiveness from God every time that he or she fails and goes right back to following those teachings, with God's help, is a true Christian, no matter how much or strongly he may say that he is! By their fruits you will know them, not by what they say that they are or say that they are doing. That is how you and anyone can know who is a true Christian and who is a false "Christian" and a wolf in sheep's clothing and whited sepulchre. When you or anyone looks at someone, you can tell if they are true or false Christians by what they do, say or think and if it is following Christ's teachings, and if it isn't, then they aren't true Christians. Jesus himself said: Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out devils in your name, and do many wonderful things in your name'. Then I will say to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers. Many people are also wrongly hoping that just their works will get them into Heaven, as these verses show, but they will be disappointed because we have to do good with a right heart and mind, and not just to appear "good" to other people and ourselves, for show. God chose priests and ministers when they have actually been chosen and that isn't their egotism again making them want and try to do something that their hearts aren't right for and they aren't suited for, but if they are truly chosen, they will cooperate with the Holy Spirit and follow Christ's teachings. Nobody is a Christian just by saying that he or she is, but by doing and renewing their hearts, as God tells them to do, since many false apostles are gone out into the world, from Satan who is always trying to defame and obscure Christianity in people's eyes, so that they won't turn to it and hear the truth. Satan is always trying to lead us down into darkness and lies because he hates us and wants to hurt and destroy us, and will even appear as an angel of light and imitation "Christianity", if that will deceive us and lead us astray. I hope that that answered your questions. If I can try to explain anything more to you about this, let me know.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@John D. Partin Thank you for your explanation. From what you have written It seems like being a Christian is subjective. And one can be a "Christian" without even being Christian based on their observed actions. I know a lot of non-Christians who love their neighbor as themselves, and do unto others as they would have others do them. Not sure about the action of loving their enemies as those people are usually dead.
I think you have proved my point of why young people don't want to be Christians today. You can be kind to your neighbor and be treat your friends the way you want to be treated without the being Christian.
-
John D. Partin
Being a Christian could only be "subjective" if you and other people really can't tell the difference between someone's being objectively and clearly good to you and someone's being objectively and clearly bad to you. If that isn't true, then true Christianity is objectively, not just subjectively, good. The Church has never said that there aren't some good things that are done by worldly people, up to a point, because God speaks to the world that rejects Him, too, and some of that gets through to them, despite themselves. But Christianity is about going beyond that point of just being good to some people, if it's comfortable for us and doesn't impose on us too much, which even some worldly people can do, sometimes, and a lot of them don't even do that much, into uncomfortable and unconditional love. If your and others' enemies were all dead, it might be easier to love them and gloss over their faults and eulogize them as "good" people, but it is much harder to love enemies who are still living and insulting and offending us by their actions and words every day, as God tells us to do, and that is what gets us forgiven for our being enemies of God and our reward in Heaven. So, the limited goodness, as far as it goes, of just some worldly people isn't the same and as good as Christianity. If you only love those who love you, what are you doing more than other people do? Even the tax collectors do that. But love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, pray for those who despitefully use and persecute you, that you may be the children of your father in heaven, for he makes his rain to fall on the just and the unjust, and makes his sun to shine on the good and the evil. That is the higher standard of goodness of Christianity, beyond the minimalist standard of worldly people. Everyone in the Church doesn't come up to this higher standard all or most of the time, but it is better to fail at going after a higher standard and keep trying to reach it than it is to succeed at the lower standard of worldly "goodness" and just settle for that. It is following after the higher standard of unconditional and uncomfortable love that overcomes racism and other problems between people, not the worldly standard of "goodness", if it doesn't put me out too much, which keeps people in their own groups and not trying to reach out to other people and keeps racial and other divisions and problems going. Jesus' giving his life for the sins of the world and forgiving even those who scourged and mocked him and nailed him to the cross and stood around to watch him die was and is the higher standard of goodness of Christianity, which has changed the world and which just worldly "goodness" wouldn't have done. So, I haven't proved your point at all, but you have proved my point and God's point again!!
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Thomas Payette
I have long held the belief that thise churches who have been around for centuries were founded on the concept of people are to ignorant to understand the teachings within the Bible. That the church has believed the people could not live a righteous life without the church telling them how to live. Now, look at the power and wealth of the Catholic Church. A church that in the past pillaged cultures for all religious artifacts. A church that for centuries has horded property of many cultures without remorse, or offers to return what was stolen. This paints the picture of an organization that strives for global domination, wealth, and power. And now today it's an organization that has decided that it knows best for children and adults in regards to personal identity. Passing judgment on God's people. But wait, didn't God proclaim that judgment was his domain?
Judgment is mine sayeth the Lord God!
So, then does the Catholic Church believe that God is unworthy of the task of judgment? Therefore the church must step in and pass judgment on the people. This an organization who has killed and pillaged countless cultures over centuries, and continues to horde the spoils of it's war for religious dominance. Why do they hide away all they robbed from history? Why do they highly restrict people from viewing text and artifacts from history?
Power. Power over people. Power over the religious world. Power over religious beliefs. Power to deny free thought. Power to dictate peoples relationship with God.
What would happen if the people of the world began demanding the church open it's archives and return all documents and artifacts to the cultures and people they were stolen from. Who made the church the keeper of God's gifts and knowledge the God had given his children? The church made themselves this for Power and influence over God's children.
My final thought is this. Is such an organization truly worthy of being allowed to claim to be an organization of God? And continue to be allowed the privileges given to churches by the people and governments?
Agree, disagree. Enjoy your God given right to decide what you believe and don't believe. Enjoy your God given right to voice your own opinions regardless of what the opinions of others are. Embrace you God given right to free will and to worship how you believe in your heart is right for you and your relationship with God.
-
John P Maher
WELL POSTED Mr. PAYETTE, BRAVO !!!
-
Annamarie
Nicely said! You go to the head of the class.
-
Clint Knight
Well said! Thank you!
-
Roseann Stanley
Well said!
-
-
Canadian Yankee
I would never join a group in which I did not feel respected or that disrespects others. In my past I have quit several organizations that descriminate on race. With that said if one does not like the rules of the Catholic church then find another one. There are hundreds of demomonations out there and maybe even thousands to choose from.
-
Joe Stutler
It doesn't really matter to me what an international pedophilia conglomerate believes. They blame their deity for their bigotry....and the whole kiddie-rape thing shouldn't go unnoticed.
-
James Riggle-Johnson
I’m not surprised... it’s Iowa, it’s the Catholic church, and they don’t like us very much. I wish they had this much zeal about their priests when they were molesting children for all that time.
-
Val Jester
Jesus did not eat with sinners, prostitutes and tax collectors because he wanted to appear inclusive, tolèrent and accepting. Jesus ate with them to call them to be changed and lead a fruitful life, to die too self and live for Him. Jesus calls for transformation of life not affirmation of identity. Good for them.
-
Reverand Jim
Well said. The sick need the hospitals and doctors, not the healthy.
-
-
Rev Frankie PG
My husband and I think that these policies are fair. Your biological sex is what matters even when you are an adult. When you're a responsible adult with your own insurance, tear them off or glue them on, frankly my dear I don't give a darn. Why they still ask for gender and race on forms is still comical to me, as we're supposed to be in an all accepting society. But morons and old school people like Biden and even his young cronies, still put it at the top of the scale.🙄
-
Daniel Gray
And this is coming crashing down on the "woke" people who want this. Seems the Swiss have just made it national Policy that there are only TWO sexes no matter how many people want to claim otherwise. And from what my Cousins say in Eppigen Germany, care to guess what the next European country is that will be following suit?
-
Geraldine Pape Alleva
You are one-hundred percent accurate...pedophilia is in all walks of life including ALL religions.
-
-
Cindi
It should not be up to me or any other person. I am not the judge of anyone, by any means or reason. But, I don't have to tolerate LBGTQ shoved down my throat. OK, you have a sexual preference. Don't broadcast it, shouting about it. Afterall, I don't shove it in your faces that I am a woman who prefers sex with a man! Also, I have no problem if you think you were born with the incorrect gender. What I do have a problem with is parents brainwashing a young child to change their biological sex just because they weren't what they wanted. To me that is child abuse. As far as the bathrooms are concerned, no, you should use the one with your biological gender. Especially is you're a pervert!
-
Richard James Holden
It saddens me that fundermental American Christians are constantly forcing there will on people, usually against the wishes of the individuals in question. Their insecurity and desperation for control is utterly medieval, they would be chopping off hands and burning witches if they were allowed. Please leave minority groups alone you bullies. Remember God created them as well and has no need to hurt, harm or hate them....this is all on you, not God !
-
Daniel Gray
it saddens me that we have people like you who seem to think that everyone needs to accept the flavor of the month ideas as fact. You have internal plumbing that shows you are either male or female. Deal with it.
-
-
Deborah Lynn Strafuss
Y'know, we are so good at arguing the letter of the law and missing its heart and spirit - just as Jesus himself remarked of the the Hebrew religion of the day. Humans want rules and laws to put their weight down on so that someone can be right. What is the spirit of the word here, not its literal interpretation used to justify a letter-of-the-law life type of group self-righteousness? And what is self-righteousness and its role in here but our desperate need to feel we are okay and on the good guy side so we don't what - go someplace horrible when we die, which is one of our greatest and most unaddressed fears in modern society. The fear of death, the existence of death as a punishment - these are belief systems based on fear. So this verse has become hey kids, you want in, gotta do this - and we keep adding to it. That is not at all what Paul was speaking to here and anyone reading this knows it.
Paul taught for the needs of his contemporaries and their immediate needs. He responded from spirit to their current crisis. He was managing a new baby church in the midst of then current lifestyles. We have made his words into iron bands. No one gets hot and bothered about his also very clear directive that greed and thievery shall not enter the kingdom of heaven, yet that is what he says here as well. I wish to heaven we took that as seriously as we prevaricate over sex.
And talking about following Jesus, who spoke globally and across time to human nature, I recall no record where Jesus refuted homosexuality in his time with us here. This is Paul, responding to people who have willingly chosen and are entering a new phase of life. When we make these changes we often need to change behaviors in order to create new paths for our new directions in life. When I stopped smoking I stopped drinking coffee for a long while - not because coffee is bad, but because I needed to rework the unhealthy pattern of my life and coffee and a cigarette was my pattern. I went happily back to drinking coffee after many months, now free of the addiction to nicotine.
While I respect the words of the apostles, I recognize two things in their letters: 1) They were speaking in time bound existence to immediate groups needing direction ( with the understanding that we can take many lessons from their words) and 2) the clear knowledge that not only has the bible suffered much in translation, but that it is missing many parts. We do not have the whole picture, we have what those in their human biases, even though prayerful ones, at the time wanted us to have for the sake of creating a unity around spirituality to anchor the governing of their populations. We also have what modern translators want us to interpret. We are flawed beings. Our thoughts and interpretations are the best we can offer at a specific point in time and often couched in our present reality no matter how hard we try to climb out of it for a more expanded view. The beingness of God is not imprisoned in our current reality and not meant to imprison others in the future.
Fifty years ago when I was deeply learning the word in my spiritual youth, this verse held the word sodomy, and that was generally known to refer to acts of worship of animal deities that involved having sexual relations with animals and was a direct reference to the acts of the people of Sodom who were involved in this kind of worship. The issue here was one of worship. The Word of God is living and continues today in the hearts and souls of the living. Whose altar are we worshipping at today? Often we think it is God's because we are obeying the outwardly established rules of the day. But when words of discrimination and acts of violence and laws of oppression come out of us, who or what are we worshipping? It is not what goes into a person's mouth that defiles them, it is what comes out of our hearts. Prettying up our revulsions with spiritual tutus does not make them acceptable for universal consumption.
-
Kirk England
I don’t see the problem with taking a stand based on thousands of years of actual science. The current political based science has zero facts to back it up and claiming people are going to commit suicide because a Catholic diocese wants people with body dysphoria to seek proper mental healthcare, is absolutely baseless. Body mutilation has never been proven to prevent suicide. That weak reference to the AMA, which is democrat controlled and therefore political these days, basically proves it.
-
Joe Stutler
So while the cannibal cultists blame their deity for their bigotry, what do you ascribe your bigotry to? Poor parenting? Bade genetics? Sub-human? Please elaborate.
-
Kirk England
I said not a single word that came from bigotry. Maybe you should look it up! Is that elaborate enough for you?
-
Joe Stutler
Denying your bigotry does nothing to mitigate your bigotry. Or are you genuinely a NAMBLA supporter?
-
-
-
Genevieve Friday Ard
"based on thousands of years of actual science" Well, are you aware that the history of Scientific Study has various eras and most studies beyond 100 years ago are typically ignored because they were not empirically based, nor peer reviewed, and every aspect of Science is only valid until the next study that proves/disproves the hypothosis. Today, Dentists are still struggling to conduct empirically based, peer reviewed studies on dental proceedures. Just a few years ago, a new bone and two new organs were discovered in the Human Body. The stance that those with Gender issues should seek out competent and qualified psychological/medical care is a great stance.
-
-
Robert Gagnon
For once I agree with a church. To be unhappy with who or what you are invites tragedy. Parents that are too weak or naive to guide their children thru self doubt, should never have been parents. Everyone has self doubts and esteem issues as children. Facial birth marks or unpleasant features could be altered so a child wouldn't stand out. Parents taught their children to love themselves for who they are and to make good use of their individuality. A three year old should not be aware of sexual identity except that a penis makes a boy and not having one makes a girl. It's very simple and always has been. Being gay, bi, or straight is something to be worked out after puberty. Delaying puberty is an affront to nature and human kind. It serves no one any good to allow someones body dysphoria to grow with age. It should be nipped in the bud and not allowed to flourish. You must love yourself before you can love someone else. All the surgery in the world only makes you a fake, a poser, something grotesque, someone perpetually unhappy and incapable of experiencing true love.
-
Pastor Jody S.
Interesting that the diocese would do this. Our local docese has never said a peep about any LGBTQ+ subject. I'd hazard a guess that money - most likely in the form of donors - played a part in the Iowa diocese decision. I was a sacristan and alter server for many years in the Roman Catholic church, and can testify to how much power the "major givers" have over the clergy and the direction of the parshes and diocese organization and what doctrine gets emphasized.
Now, as to the question of "gender dysphoria", that's a symptom, not the actual condition. The actual condition is that God gives some of us challenges. While Genesis declares that Yahweh God created us "Man and Woman", it wasn't "or". So gender is not necessarily binary.
There are exceptions. Quite a few. If you want an example of one,look up "Androgen Insensitivity Disorder" on GOOGLE. You will find photos of perfectly normal looking women.
EXCEPT - they have XY chromosomes, and are genetically men. Yup. But the gender receptors malfunction. So, according to the Iowa Diocese, they should use only the MENS room, dress in Men's clothes, and be called He, Him, and Sir.
See how ridiculous the "Only Men or Women" proponents are? And there are as many as 45 other genetic defects that can cause gender issues. We don't persecute diabetics, we treat them. As Christians, welcome them, comfort them, and ask God for healing of them.
For Bible support, go read Isaiah 56:4-5. God promise a place in his hall to the eunuchs. That will NOT be taken away.
And for heaven's sake, Drag Queens are not this. They are entertainers. Getting mad at them is like wanting to beat up Ronald McDonald or the Shriner's Clowns!
-
Kirk England
Umm, if they look like “perfectly normal women”, do you really think anyone is going to ask for their chromosome load?
-
-
Alun Lloyd Palmer
They want to drag everyone kicking and screaming back into the 19th century. No thanks.
-
Catherine Christina Deslippe
When reading the Christian Bible, God so loved the world - now, when we break that down, that includes everyone. No matter what one identifies themselves with, they are loved by God. Faith is not about judgment, for that day will come when one passes. I pray for those who do not believe, for I have seen cruel punishment toward those who do not identify as straight. Also, we look at "hate" years ago in the residential schools, those I even knew who were in foster care never to return home; we must stop judging and start loving; Lord, hear my prayers,
-
Lionheart
So, Catherine, did your God equally love those first born children that he killed when he was having his temper tantrum with Pharaoh, or that person he had stoned to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath? I won’t even mention his genocidal drowning of most everyone on earth that would have included, children, babies, pregnant mothers, et al. Ooops, I guess I just did. 🤭
I’m just breaking things down like you suggested. So, as for, God so loved the world……I thing not. 🤷🏼
Fortunately, there’s no demonstrable evidence that any of the worlds Gods are real.
🦁❤️
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@Catherine Christina Deslippe If God so loved the world why did God kill so many in floods and wars. Where was God in Europe during the Word Wars? If God loves as you say everyone why did God allow Europeans to kill so may Africans, Native Americans, and South Americans? And continues to do so today?
I don't think Lord is hearing your prayers - Just look at the drug addiction and homelessness the Lord you pray to is causing. A loving Lord would not allow that to happen.
-
-
Peggyann Johnson-Hansen
When it comes to pedophiles in spiritual communities, such as the Catholic Church, I shake my head at the lack of realization by the public that pedophiles exist in all spiritual communities. The Mormons are quick to deflect news coverage of those in their communities and often quickly move them into programs not associated with children. The mega churches in our country attract many pedophiles in their communities. If caught the individual will leave the church and find another church. Even if they spend time in prison. Information about these individuals, which include men and women, are not passed to other spiritual communities as many of these spiritual organizations do not have hierarchical connections, which allows informational flows. Plus, some of these spiritual organization believe that God will heal the individual, therefore, former churches do not want to hinder Christion growth of such an individual. In the Protestant spiritual communities many of their pedophiles often are in positions as Youth Ministers or helpers in these positions of ministry. Pastors, Priests, Deacons, Church Counselors or people in leadership roles may also embody the role of a pedophile.
As we learned of the pedophile, Josh Duggar, in the Duggar family, 19 Children and Counting, TLC, who follow the teachings of the now debunked Bill Gothard, Basic Life Training, and the Quiver Full teachings, these spiritual communities chose to send their pedophiles to Christian Work Camps believing that pedophile behavior can be changed. This behavior is a mental health issue that requires treatment and a willingness to exclude oneself from children 100%. To date there is not permanent cure for pedophilia. It is like an alcoholic you can never touch a drink of any kind the rest of your life. My point of this message is to encourage all people to open one's eyes and realize Pedophiles are not contained to one spiritual community.
-
Peggyann Johnson-Hansen
.If we are all made in the image of God, which includes all variousness' of human vessels. How do we truly know that spirits are not placed in only male or female vessels? On earth we do carry around a human vessel in a myriad of forms, colors, and cultural systems. However, when death comes it is the Spirit that God created in His image that leaves the body to dwell with the Holy Trinity.
-
Lionheart
Where did you get your evidence from to support your claim that “when death comes it is the Spirit that God created in His image that leaves the body to dwell with the Holy Trinity”? Are you just quoting statements that you read in a book?
🦁❤️
-
-
John Edgar Buonagurio
I'm confused as to why anyone would encourage their child to undergo years of body modification, which can have serious and long lasting health consequences. I accepted and continue to accept, love, encourage and celebrate my kids as they were physically born. There is absolutely nothing "wrong" with them that requires medical intervention. Others may think differently and that's beautiful, but I love my kids as is and try to inspire them to do the same.
-
Lori-Ann Neeb
Yes, pedophiles are wrong wherever you find them. I don't think anyone refutes that. but what of the topic? The churches bigotry against alternative lifestyles? That was the topic. No one should attend any church that doesn't welcome all people equally.
-
Lori-Ann Neeb
You said you do not judge but apparently you do judge others.
-
David Arthur Lewis
Who Would Jesus Hate?
-
flugo
'darts': Jesus said He and His Father are 'One'.; and that He does what His Father does. (John 10:30) So, if the Father hates, Jesus hates.
The wicked - Psalm 7:11; 11:5; 10:31; 5:5; Proverbs 6:19 - false witnesses. Romans 1:18 & John 3:36 says the wrath of God is presently hovering over the unrepentant evil doers.
To clarify your posting . . . . . yes, Jesus hates!
-
-
Merlin
Man makes rules.
-
Jeremy Dax Herrera
I say this diocese is on the right path and the true path of the Bible. Sadly, with how the current status of the Catholic Church is heading, I am sure there will be a leadership change at this diocese. As for the senator's post goes, yes it is what Jesus would do. Jesus wants people to repent of their sins, but still loves them. I know I am sure that statement alone will get me hate mail.
Love does not mean that punishment and rebuking statements won't be made. No, a father still loves his child when they do wrong but the child still must have a form of punishment or rebuke to teach them. God made you with the sex that you are, no one but God assigned your sex. Feeling like you are more male or female does not make you either or, God already made you biologically the sex everyone can see. He doesn't love you less because you feel one way or another.
In the Bible there are many times where Jesus would rebuke someone for their sins and then let the person decide to repent or not. He didn't force them to repent, but also made statements for them to do so before they could follow him. The woman at the well is an example of this. He told her to repent from her sinning of adultry and then follow him. Then the rich man that wanted to follow he told him to sell all his possessions first, but the rich man walked away. In both cases the person had a choice to make, but Jesus loved them both. One choose to follow him and the other walked away.
Does this mean I hate those that cross dress, are gay, want to use different pro-nouns... No. If I saw any of them in danger or in a situation that could take their lives I would step forward and help them. That doesn't mean I will accept their sins as being ok.
-
John P Maher
I THINK EVERYTHING CHRISTIAN is BEING DESTROYED BY T O D A Y s so CALLED CHRISTIANs for THEIR TOTAL CORUPTIVE ACTIONs,,GREED, LIEs, and NEVER FORGET THE SUPPORTING of the ANTI CHRIST tRUMP
-
Daniel Lee Weiss
its about time, its rare to see the catholic church sticking with the bible.
-
Daniel Todd Kamm
I know the the world is changing. And there are now so many issues I choose not to engage many of them. Pronouns is one area. What to spread on my garden is another. When I was in elementary school, we were taught that a pronoun was a word that took the place of a noun. Forward almost 60 years, a pronoun is still a word that takes a place of a noun. So regardless of the word, it still takes the place of a noun. I'm not sure of the plurals such as we/they... as a mental health therapist my internal jury is still way out on what that means: some dissociative disorder, or something else? So I am sharing this: when I was growing up, one of my grandmothers, her sisters, and her friends affectionately referred to all small children as "It." No one said "look at him or her," doing whatever we were doing, (we could have been pulling our pants down, it was always the same.) "So- and -so ... look at It!" This was actually meant to be affectionate... boys, girls, (they had no sense of trans in those days) and we kids never thought about it. Because those old ladies loved the hell out of us all the time. Later on , as a teen I came to realize that they were also using "it" to refer to men, primarily their husbands, and especially when a husband was coming up short in the husband or father categories. Interesting. To this day I can still hear my great aunt Ethel or my great aunt Frank referring to most of us as "it." I never felt slighted or less loved or cared for by any of this...those ladies poured love on everyone, friend or not. Which is, I suppose, my point. Love is Love, whatever one chooses to call it. It's not the words we use but what they mean. Peace Out Rebtk
-
Matheu Martell
This. I agree with you 100%.
-
rebadams7
By placing children on a medical train, that will do nothing but cost them money the rest of their lives, promise, many things, but deliver, even less, and possibly leave them in worse shape, if they avoid puberty, they may end up with neither male nor female anything. This church has the right to its rules. Don’t like them, don’t attend .
-
Patricia Ihnat Hughes
It seems to me that the Catholic church is up to something No Good as usual. I grew up in a age that what the priest said was law. Throughout history the Catholic church has been the cause of much bloodshed . I wouldn't trust a thing that the Catholic church says or dose. I'm going to be a bit rough here. Priest for some reason can't keep there pickle in there pants. Being molested myself by a Catholic female family member as a child countless times. I was told that this family member was a good person by the priest and I was lying to get attention. I'm not sorry at all about what I just wrote. The good Catholic church makes me want to vomit!!!
-
John D. Partin
Patricia Ihnat Hughes, how is hating the whole Catholic Church because of your terrible experiences with a Catholic female family member any different than some black people hating all white people because of their personal experiences and other black people's history with some white people? Or white racists' hating all black people because of their bad experiences with some of them or just how they were raised? Or Jews hating all Germans or people of any group hating all people in another group? It's all bigotry and prejudice, and is only overcome for anyone by forgiveness and not lumping all people in any group together, but considering them as individuals. And saying, in time, as Christ said of those who nailed him to the cross, scourged and mocked him, and stood around to watch him die "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". She didn't know what she was doing, either, and so should be forgiven, which is for you and your peace, not for her. Read the lives of the Saints, who haven't done such rotten things as she did to you and that other "Catholics", in name only, have done to others, and balance out your lopsided thinking about Catholics. Promiscuous and child molester "priests" aren't actually priests and don't represent Christ because they don't love their neighbors as themselves or do unto others as they would have others do unto them, as Christ commanded. So, the Church shouldn't be hated because of people who aren't following Christ's teachings. God bless you and give you healing from your pain and help you to forgive.
-
-
Mark E.Petrelli
I am sorry to say that I DO agree in what they are doing in part. I am an Eastern Orthodox priest and as we are having this problem in our churches we try and help the family and individuals. We have an open policy whereas as long as you do not flaunt your sexual identity you are allowed to come to church but we do not encourage such behavior that is against what God has preached. It is written in a few verses what the Lord thought about this subject. You cannot change Gods words to justify your behavior to make you feel better about yourself and the way you are living your life sorry.
-
Genevieve Friday Ard
Matthew 12:19, Jesus’s words inscribed by Matthew, speaks to this. I have many questions on the stance taken, and the edicts issued by the Diocese in question.
God created me with genes whose expression as noted are 46XX and 46XY. I have two blood types, one is A+ and the other is O-. Biologically I am a person made of two siblings, one female and one male. I have worries about autoimmune disease and cancer, I also have to worry about ‘autonomous auto amputation’ if the two different cell lines go to war. I exist sheerly by God’s grace. I also carry that label ‘Transgender’ and have many friends and acquaintances who are Transgender, Intersex, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Pansexual, Gender Fluid and more. They are good people.
How can one lay down a statement that ‘you are unconditionally loved’ in one breath, then issue near nonsensical Levitical like edicts where every ‘sin’ has a punishment of being stoned? Those edicts that demand one adhere to stereotypical gender roles as aligned with ‘their biological sex’? Does this mean they will have police forces to strip folks to check their ‘biological sex’? What is their definition of that? Does it allow someone like me or others who are Intersex to exist?
As a Clinical Mental Health Counselor, every competent psychology study on Transgender children, teens, young adults, adults and elders all show clear correlations between acceptance and flourishing and rejection and poor outcomes. When I state that, the evidence is overwhelming.
As an Intersex person, I know that many Intersex people DO have to take steps to address hormone issues and many do have to take surgical steps to make life easier or to survive.
As a Transgender person, I know many who struggle every day with >60% unemployed, <30% under employed and ~3% advancing beyond Transition. Over 50% contemplate suicide due to familial rejection, rejection from long time friends, loss of gainful employment, homelessness and for many the only avenue for survival is sex work. If they end up in hospital emergency rooms they have to deal with ‘Transgender Broken Arm Syndrome’, the act of a Trans person appearing at the ER with a very obvious broken arm or heart attack and in lieu of a qualified physician a Psychiatrist appears at their bedside. That is if they are lucky, some hear the words “We don’t treat their kind here. Transport them elsewhere”. One time, that was me and a heart that could sustain 360+ beats per minute for hours on end, but that heart rate is deadly for most. Should I speak to the endless violence Trans people endure? The false statements made by the far right wing who keep pushing the trope that Trans people are masquerading as women to secretly hide in women’s spaces to attack them? I assisted a Professor of Law who did that study. Over 600 cities and towns throughout the United States was surveyed for any crimes described as a Trans woman attacking anyone in or near a bathroom, changing room or locker room. None were found. I kept in contact with the Professor, and I kept looking. I never did find one instance at that time, a few have occurred since then and those few individuals cited the trope. What I did find was shocking, Trans people are attacked in and near bathrooms, change rooms, locker rooms and it does not matter if that room signage reflects the gender they were assigned at birth or the gender they held.
Neither Jesus nor his Apostles ever had words recorded on this topic, but I think Haddaway (1992) said it best with “What is love? baby don’t hurt me, don’t hurt me no more”.
-
Nathan C Baker
Since there are only men and women created by the one and only God to be either single or one man and one woman in matrimony, I think the entire world should get on board. Some say Jesus himself never spoke on certain subjects, but as John one explains, Jesus has been since the beginning. Nothing that is made was made without him. He was there when Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. He is not different than God, he is God. He has not changed his mind about sin. He will judge us all. Those who are saved, follow the teachings of Jesus and his apostles whom he himself commissioned.
-
Wesley Allan Good
God made Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve !!!
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@Wesley Allan Good How are you so sure? We know every human starts life as an Eve not an Adam. It's only after 10 weeks where were might start becoming an Adam. But then God screws up in one out of 175 people born giving some Adams a penis, a vagina and breasts. And then we know God makes some Eves unable to get pregnant and have children.
While God says he make Adam and Eve we know he lied. God and Christians can't even tell us what characteristics make someone a man or a women. The truth is like height and weight there's a spectrum. And then we know there are some people who are born who are neither male of female.
What's you definition for an Adam and an Eve?
-
-
Daniel Donovan York
Hi Gay Pastor here I'm actually hoping to open a church that invites all people in regardless of sex gender sexuality because God teaches us to love not hate.
-
Dawn Rubin-Miller
It is so sad that Organizations use God and Jesus and quotes from the Bible, (out of context) to justify their Their own power and ego. Their teachings are nothing short of hypocritical. It is dangerous! They preach love, kindness and compassion. Yet, they cause parents to disown their children, tell humans that they are not worthy to be loved both in family, friends and God, Jesus, ( or whom ever they call their Higher Power). If they fully believe in their Bible, ( love they neighbour as you love yourself, or do not judge as you will be judge), as set in their beliefs foundation, they are all lies. You will also find the Catholic Church has more cover up for pedifiles and child abuse more than any religious institution. I, myself, as not only a Minister but a Certified Master Life Coach, have seen what happens to our scared, rejected humans of all ages. It sickens me! And to any LGBQT people, I'll stand by you! Need someone to talk to, to walk you down the isle, to preform your ceremony, someone to lean on? Get in touch with one of us! Our beliefs are, we believe in love for the good of humanity, NOT to control humanity.
When the Catholic church adequately punishes pedophile priests I will listen to their views on other subjects. Actually, that's wrong. Because the Catholics have not adequately punished their pedophiles, I will never listed to them on any other topic. They have lost all credibility.
When it comes to pedophiles in spiritual communities, such as the Catholic Church, I shake my head at the lack of realization by the public that pedophiles exist in all spiritual communities. The Mormons are quick to deflect news coverage of those in their communities and often quickly move them into programs not associated with children. The mega churches in our country attract many pedophiles in their communities. If caught the individual will leave the church and find another church. Even if they spend time in prison. Information about these individuals, which include men and women, are not passed to other spiritual communities as many of these spiritual organizations do not have hierarchical connections, which allows informational flows. Plus, some of these spiritual organization believe that God will heal the individual, therefore, former churches do not want to hinder Christion growth of such an individual. In the Protestant spiritual communities many of their pedophiles often are in positions as Youth Ministers or helpers in these positions of ministry. Pastors, Priests, Deacons, Church Counselors or people in leadership roles may also embody the role of a pedophile.
As we learned of the pedophile, Josh Duggar, in the Duggar family, 19 Children and Counting, TLC, who follow the teachings of the now debunked Bill Gothard, Basic Life Training, and the Quiver Full teachings, these spiritual communities chose to send their pedophiles to Christian Work Camps believing that pedophile behavior can be changed. This behavior is a mental health issue that requires treatment and a willingness to exclude oneself from children 100%. To date there is not permanent cure for pedophilia. It is like an alcoholic you can never touch a drink of any kind the rest of your life. My point of this message is to encourage all people to open one's eyes and realize Pedophiles are not contained to one spiritual community.
I guess since CNN and MSNBC and ilk didn’t spread the word that the Pope that just died, Pope Benedict XVI, defrocked 850 priests, you make this silly claim.
How many did he turn over to the various justice systems where they committed their crimes against children?
Ugh! Are you that in capable of figuring stuff out by yourself? Parents of these children call the police first! Sheesh!
The Cannibal Cult is notorious for being an international pedophilia conglomerate. That you're defending them shows you'd be of best service to humanity by being well-composted and spread across a bean field.
What are you talking about? It was all over the news... CNN aired it for a week.
CNN is fake
I agree with you there it’s all fake news it’s what they think is true it’s not
The problem exists in every religion not just in catholicism.