If you've been following election news at all recently, you might be familiar with Vivek Ramaswamy, a businessman and child of Indian immigrants whom some consider a contender for the presidency.
And while pundits, evangelical leaders, and voters debate his policy positions, they're also considering something else: his Hindu faith.
Would America Elect a Hindu?
Ramaswamy’s Hindu faith is a sticking point for some evangelicals, who say they’d never vote for a non-Christian to enter the White House – no matter how much they agree with his positions.
A 2020 poll conducted by Pew Research Center shows that more than three-quarters of white evangelical Protestants believe it is important that the president share their faith in particular.
And although Ramaswamy often speaks about his admiration for the “Judeo-Christian values” he believes this nation was founded on, it may not be enough for many. Perhaps that’s why he tries to downplay the importance of his own faith, even while making overtures to evangelical Christianity.
“I share that same value-set in common,” he says of his Hindu faith in comparison to Christianity. But “I’m not running for pastor-in-chief.”
Here's Ramaswamy speaking to a crowd about faith issues on the campaign trail:
"Strange Gods in the White House"
Not everyone is sold, however. Some religious leaders are even speaking out against the idea of electing a Hindu.
In a viral sermon that’s been viewed more than one million times, pastor Hank Kunneman lambasted Ramaswamy’s faith:
Kunneman asked how he can be trusted to uphold Judeo-Christian principles in office if he’s not swearing on the Bible and “putting all of his strange gods up in the White House?”
“What are we doing even entertaining the fact?” Kunneman pondered.
Kunneman’s not the only evangelical Christian to criticize Ramaswamy’s Hindu faith, either.
Commentator Ann Coulter has also made headlines recently with comments about the Hindu faith that many found callous. “What’s with the worshiping of the cows?” she wondered on a recent podcast appearance. "Did you know they have a rat temple, where they worship rats?"
Callousness aside, the comments underscore the serious challenge that anyone of the Hindu faith will need to overcome to reach some Americans: "otherness" is not a label easily shed.
What Do Hindus Believe?
Although there are more than 1.2 billion Hindus around the world, the "otherness" factor here is impactful. Millions of Americans are unfamiliar with the faith, and surveys have shown many cannot answer basic questions about it.
Hinduism is one of the world's oldest faiths, with a rich tapestry of beliefs, practices, and traditions that have evolved over thousands of years. So, how are animals like cows and rats incorporated in Hindu beliefs?
Cows are revered in Hinduism as symbols of non-violence and are also valued for their agricultural importance. They are associated with deities like Krishna and are often involved in Hindu rituals.
Rats, on the other hand, have a more specific role. They are considered sacred at certain places of worship, such as the Karni Mata Temple in Rajasthan, where they are believed to be reincarnated relatives of the sage Karni Mata.
Hinduism is further characterized by a diversity of beliefs and practices rather than a single set of doctrines. However, some core beliefs and concepts are central to Hindu thought:
1. Brahman & Atman: Hindus believe in a Supreme Universal Soul called Brahman, and each individual soul, known as Atman, is eternal and a reflection of Brahman.
2. Samsara & Karma: The cycle of birth, death, and rebirth (samsara) is driven by karma, the law of cause and effect, where every action has consequences that may be experienced in this life or future lives.
3. Moksha & Dharma: The ultimate goal of human existence is moksha, or liberation from the cycle of samsara. Achieving this goal requires following one's dharma, the ethical and moral duties specific to an individual.
Voting on a Prayer
Back to electability... is it possible the country could elect a Hindu president? Is there any sort of precedent here?
The history of American politics can't exactly be described as a lesson in religious diversity.
In fact, every U.S. president has clearly identified as Christian except for two: Thomas Jefferson, who was a deist, and Abraham Lincoln, whose faith is still often debated by scholars and historians.
Otherwise, it’s been a long line of Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Baptists, Methodists, and hey, even a couple of Catholics too. Some were incredibly pious, others less so, but all of them were Christian in some form or another.
That's not to say that major barriers haven't been torn down before. John F. Kennedy was the first Catholic president, and he famously faced intense scrutiny over his faith. Critics at the time insisted JFK would be beholden to the Vatican over the American people (and those concerns emerged again when the second Catholic president, Joe Biden, took office in 2021).
Notably, however: when JFK was elected, Catholics made up nearly 23% of the U.S. population.
As it stands today, less than 1% of Americans identify as Hindu.
What do you think? Would you embrace a candidate whose faith you don't share?
219 comments
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Katelynne Shouse
I'm all for a Hidu being President.....but not this small Fascist puppet of Der Rapingnfuhrer the Orange!
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ServantOfJudgement
Do you mean Biden or trump? We know trump is a dirty dog that'll cheat on his wife. We also know Joe Biden spent too much time in the shower with his daughter. That's pretty sick too, I think worse. Yes, much worse.
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Rev_Shaun
So long as he believes in some kind of god and is not a Muslim, the americans will elect him. Just can't be an antheist president in the land of separation of Church and State.
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Daniel Gray
There is NOLL separation of church and state. The Constitution was made the law of the land in 1787. the very FIRST mention of this myth was in 1802 a good fifteen years AFTER the Constitution was ratified. So tell us child, when was where was the Constitutional amendment to make this part of the constitution, sent out and ratified? I wont hold my breath waiting as you cant.
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Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
Why not a Muslim? Is this your personal point of view, or are you referring to the general bigotry of some people against Muslims?
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ServantOfJudgement
Ahmed,
He's saying the citizenry won't elect anyone who isn't Christian. It would be a hard sell after 9/11, he might be right.
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Shabad Priya Kaur
I’m not convinced that’s what he meant - but pray you are correct.
It should NOT matter what religion anyone believes in. What matters is that our President is level headed, isn’t mentally unstable, and has the skills (and common sense) to do the job properly.
While we are told there is a separation in church and state, in practice, most politicians (and people) have a hard time separating themselves from their own bias as they do their jobs.
I am sure many of you have been in situations where you had to do that. I know I have had to remind myself that my job is NOT to judge but to serve. And when I am counseling new Sikhs… helping them find their Sect (yes, we too have many flavors) I must put away my own affiliations and leanings… because my job/role isn’t about me… it is about the Sangat (congregation). THIS is what I expect of my politicians… to make their jobs be about the community they serve. But in reality - it simply isn’t that way. That’s whole quid, pro, quo thing gets in the way of that the minute they run for election the first time.
We must recognize that, when we were a small country, representation was much more inclusive. Now, it is exclusive.
I have a difficult time convincing South Asians to register to vote and then to actually vote. Even as new citizens, they already feel their vote doesn’t make a difference. Somewhere in that first two years… our country’s reputation makes it to them. Through a language barrier even. That needs fixing.
And again, we need to stop fighting over the names of God, and uniting over being Brothers and Sisters of Faith. We are ALL part of one community… and many active leaders in that community… the community of humanity. So… set an example.
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Brien
Wow, I am scared of all of you. I will not be ruled by any hate filled mythical belief, and I certainly will not cast a vote on the basis of ignorant beliefs.
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Joy
I am with you on this.
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Rev. Z.D. Caballero
I don't see a problem. Evangelicals should know that a lot of candidates they have voted for, were not exactly practicing Christians: President Trump being the most recent. So long as Ramaswamy's agenda is mostly in cahoots with their beliefs, they'll vote for the guy.
This issue comes up everytime, but XXI century Americans could care less about religion. Never as much as appearances. If the person looks good and says the right thing, he or she is in. Again... there's Trump as evidence.
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
The only difference between the Christian trinity and the Hindu godhead is that the latter has more than three different manifestations of the same god. It's almost laughable that I, as an atheist, have to explain that to Christians. Of course,recent statements by some evangelicals disavowing Jesus would mean that they weren't Christians anyway. What do they believe in? The dollar bill? Capitalism?
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ServantOfJudgement
Alun,
It is very laughable that you have to explain to christians the God they worship is the same as the Hindu gods. If I were you, I'd keep on telling christians all about their faith, it's very very laughable indeed.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Next you'll say the eucharist isn't a ritual cannibalism.
Laughable, indeed.
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ServantOfJudgement
Kenneth,
As I'm still researching the new testament I'm not familiar with that phrase, the Eucharist. As with all things in the bible, there's a willingness to read what we want then slam the document shut. I'm familiar with the last supper and the things Jesus said during it. I doubt it is in reality a ritual in cannibalism. It's more likely that Jesus' words aren't able to be comprehended by those that believe it is such a ritual. Based on what I know about Jesus and his character it's likely to be a gap in comprehension of the reader.
I'll have to raincheck this until I've completed the whole document.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I see - so the existence or nonexistence of anything rests solely with your confirmation?
Talk about ego.
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ServantOfJudgement
Come on man, you asked me a question. I said I don't know. That is not a big ego, that's a little ego willing to be wrong.
I was thinking about that same thing on my way to work this morning. Since I've been on this site, I'm the only person that's willing to be wrong that I've seen. Maybe someone is but I haven't seen it yet. One of anti-christ members said the same somewhere, maybe Brien said it. Nobody here is willing to budge an inch is what he said. Nobody. He might have been right untill I showed. Because I'm looking for truth, I've always been willing to be wrong. Sure I can be cocky when someone politely asks for it but still open. I appear to be unique. What a disappointment. I sometimes wonder if there's a connection with a person who refuses to be wrong and therefore refuses to believe in the source (God) that says their wrong. Hmmmmm, I might be on to something. Maybe that's why most of you hate God so viciously. Aahhhh, who knows? Who cares? I'm prolly wrong. Maybe.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Are you feeling persecuted SOJ?
Sheesh - how Christ-like can you get?
You literally said "I'll have to raincheck this until I've completed the whole document." This says you WILL have an answer after you check your "document".
And I'm sorry, but I have yet to see you 'looking for truth'. Validation? Yes. Religious authority? Yes. Social authority? Most definitely. But mostly, as in the above, you seem to be searching for sympathy.
It seems much more likely all you want to do is pontificate to the masses. It seems much more likely what you want to do is run other people's lives - like the LGBTQ, and pregnant women. They make "wrong" choices too often, so naturally you feel you have the right to intervene.
And then you feel sorry for yourself because "You're the only person willing to be wrong." What a JOKE.
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ServantOfJudgement
And the tank rolls on
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I'll thumb that up.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
The Eucharist is a Greek word for Thanksgiving. You will not find it in the NT. Maybe in the Greek Text. Many words are used in theology that are not in Scripture like Trinity, etc.
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ServantOfJudgement
Ok, thanks Keith!
There we have it, the Eucharist is a ritual in giving thanks, not cannibalism!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I agree - that's a much better way of thinking about it than, "the blood and body of Christ".
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John Robert Milner
Why not! The current president doesn’t follow his faith and, I believe, has been banned from communion! Separation of church and state says V can be elected without prejudice!
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Parson Golden
Well, first that’s not true. And I suspect you know that.
Second, the ability to participate in an archaic religious ceremony has no bearing on an individual’s ability to hold public office.
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Michael Holland
Biden was granted communion, he is a man of great faith!
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Rev Mark D
Oh brother...
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Ok Pharisee. You have a veil .over your eyes. You have eyes but you cannot see. You have ears but you cannot hear. Suppirtinf and promoti.g everything he does absolutely goes against the Catholic Faith.
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Michael Holland
American Catholic bishops voted to adopt a document about Holy Communion and who should receive the sacrament, an issue that was in part inspired by President Biden's election. Mr. Biden, a devout Catholic, supports the right of women to have an abortion, which the Catholic Church opposes.
The vote was 222 to 8, with three abstentions.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Although banned he still receives in Washington, D. C which isn't his home diocese. The Bishops in America need to excommunicate together. They truly would send a message. Let's face ot: the b*****d is goingbstraight to hell because of his adherent faith in supporting and promoting abortion world wide. Abortion is not health care. It's murder.
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Minister Butterworth
On the subject of abortion, i agree that it is murder. Everyone sins. No one is perfect. But under the grace of God we can always be forgiven for sin. Anyone can convert and be forgiven by asking God in the name of Jesus. Its imperative that we (true Christians) remember this always because it's easy to become consumed with anger which can put our own souls in danger. It is not up to man to condemn one to hell and damnation, that is a job for God and God alone. As well, name calling accomplishes nothing. It only makes it look like you've got nothing more constructive in your vocabulary. I do applaud your view tho and commend you for posting them.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Dear Minister, mine is a righteous anger. Sqle as Jesus chasing the moneylenders out of the temple. In the Case of Biden when one sells their souls to the devil it's unequivocally clear thete is no turning back on that decision as in the case of the man who sold property and kept sole of the.money back for himself and lied to the Holy Spirit. Greed got the best of him. If he had admitted he kept some for himself he wouldn't have sinned. So he went straight to hell. We have every right to cast out sinners never letting some to return. You can judge whether they have truthfully changed by their actions and what they say. Biden has sold his soul. He makes no attempt to stop promoting abortion. Pence has sold his soul. He doesn't care about America. He admitted it. He's had his taste of little boys I do believe. Oh the Churchvas Catholic has every right to condemn . Their own actions and comments pkacebthemselves outside of the Church. It is up to the Church Hierarchy to.make it valid. The keys to the Kingdom were given to St. Peter as we Catholics belive.
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Minister Butterworth
Keith,
Your perception is most assuredly valid. As long as he continues to endorse the murder of innocent children he will continue down the path of destruction. If he was to realize the error of his ways, the door to salvation is always open to all persons.
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ServantOfJudgement
Keith and Raymond,
To touch on abortion, consider this:
Isn't it interesting that when a carrying woman is murdered and the unborn baby with her is killed also, the perpetrator is charged with two murders? Not only are people charged for this type of murder they're convicted for it. The us legal system recognizes an unborn baby as a human being and they do it all the time. So we've got science saying the thing inside the womb is a human being. We've law saying if you kill the human inside the womb it's murder and we've got opinions that contradict science and the law that demand the right to kill the human being up to birth in some tragic cases.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
To touch on abortion, consider this:
Forced pregnancy is a war crime according to the Geneva conventions.
Supporting the anti-abortion movement requires embracing the mindless absurdity that a brainless cell is a "Person", and to this brainless cell is transferred all the rights and privileges of personhood that formerly belonged to the real actual conscious woman at the moment of conception, who is then reduced to the status of incubator.
No brain = no person. This is the undeniable biological scientific FACT that anti-abortionists dance and contort to deny, but no matter how they hope and wish and pray and fantasize is NEVER going away. To think otherwise is textbook magical thinking.
99% of abortions are done before 21 weeks, but anti-abortionists are constantly acting like every abortion happens minutes before labor begins. That is an outright LIE, designed to evoke a visceral sympathetic reaction, just like the outright lie that a brainless lump of cells should be granted bodily autonomy by stealing it from the real actual aware conscious woman. Anti-abortionists promote this LIE because they know the truth is inadequate to promote their cause. A fetus doesn't even get close to the sophistication necessary for awareness until the third trimester, but nobody has an unnecessary abortion in the third trimester anyway, so that isn't what this is about.
The entire anti-abortion movement is based on lies. That is the truth. It is just another wing of the conservative busybody Gestapo seeking to run people's lives and imagine they're heroes for doing it - but anybody with any intelligence sees right through their cruel self-serving delusions.
This is what makes the anti-abortion movement brainless, criminal, and outright sociopathic.
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ServantOfJudgement
Kenneth,
I don't normally do this but here.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/
And man has the audacity to judge his maker? Man has blood all over his entire existence. Not blind to his own sinister and vile nature but proud of it. He's willing to invade even the womb to satisfy his blood lust. As you view that site, watch them be destroyed. One by one what could have been beautiful is delivered to the landfill for the seagulls and worms. How sad, how disgusting, how vile, how evil. Watch the numbers roll as their little bodies are cut from the safest place in the cosmos.
You think I'm trying to force a pregnancy or some such, you don't know what you're talking about, not one bit. You say people like me are sociopaths. I'm not the one happy about billions of children chopped from the womb and pressing for it like a rabid dog.
I am like my Lord, Jesus the Christ in this for I love children as my King does. You should make sure you're on the right side of things. As it stands, you're on the side that's killed 1.7 billion human babies since 1980 and counting. My side is the side that doesn't want to kill 1.7 billion babies. I'm evil? I'm criminal? I'm brainless? That's weird. What was it Jesus said....Right will be wrong and wrong will be right...yeah, that's what it was.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
SOJ - thank you for directing me to your anti-abortion propaganda provider. I can see how this web site fills you with religious purpose and fervor.
Those are wonderful feelings, for sure, but what makes them destructive is the cost to real actual people who are not you.
This is why people fall for the anti-abortion cause. It's because they buy into a STORY of INVADING THE WOMB and the DESTRUCTION of BEAUTIFUL LIFE. How SAD, how DISGUSTING, how VILE, how EVIL. Really?
The anti-abortion movement literally is the dehumanization of women to nothing more than broodmares. If a woman can't decide whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term, but somebody else does, then she doesn't own her own body, somebody else does.
Who owns a woman? It's not the woman, these days. Is it her fetus? Is it Jesus? Is it a bunch of old men in the state capital? Is it you?
Half of those fetuses that will be born are female - and the anti-abortion movement, in their zealous war to control women's bodies, will sentence those female fetuses IN THE WOMB to be born into a life of gestational servitude, just the way the Patriarchy likes it - and the men will walk free, just the way the Patriarchy likes it. The anti-abortion movement will not stop until the entire world outlaws abortion, and we become a race of broodmares in gestational servitude and their male masters.
But you don't care about that do you SOJ. All you care about is the STORY you tell yourself, about the 'loss of innocent life'. 'Innocent' as in unformed unbreathing unthinking unknowing and unborn. For this you will sacrifice REAL ACTUAL WOMEN, so that you can 'save the innocent' and think you're a hero for doing it.
Do you want to go on SOJ? Because I have LOTS more - in fact, I have an answer for EVERYTHING - and you are NOT going to like it.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
And to your question SOJ - who has more right to question his maker than the made?
Who has the more right to judge the server than the served? Who has the more right to judge the beneficent than the benefited? who has more right to judge the creator than the created?
It's a very simple logic.
I accept your humble acquiescence.
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Minister Butterworth
S.o.j.
Your absolutely right. Todays society is backward in so many ways. It saddens me greatly the way things are going. It is not an easy time to raise children for certain. Thank you for your words and the information. I hadn't yet considered the fact that people were charged and convicted for the murder of the unborn. Your thoughts are always welcome.
Thank you,
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yes, thank you SOJ for presenting yet another shining example of conservative rationalization.
It's funny because when abortion was legal conservatives respect for the law was reduced to marginal tolerance at best. Just look at all the attacks on abortion doctors and abortion centers. But when conservatives agree with the law, it's treated as a force of nature. "Of course this is the law, because it's so right!"
Now I'm not saying I disagree with that law. I feel fine with assuming the woman intends to carry the child to term, and there being legal provision for that in the unfortunate occasion of unintended loss. The trouble is that law does the same thing as anti-abortion laws - and that is assume what the woman wants. There's that patriarchy again, swinging right into mansplaining pregnancy to women.
What if the woman and unborn child were murdered while they were on their way to the abortionist? Does the law see any difference in this situation? Of course not. Some things are 'unthinkable'.
But as I said, once again this is a shining example of conservative rationalization and conservative thinking. Conservatives are so absolutely cocksure about EVERYTHING - about 'God', about 'science', about 'law', about 'women', about what's best for everything and everyone else - and by GOD if they see ANY discrepancy they're going to step up and ENSURE the world is what it's SUPPOSED to be!
And that's why we're having this discussion.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I would tend to disagree with you on that. Once a man has sold his soul to the devil which, by all means shows he has there is no turning back for forgiveness. He has made that very clear in his radical agenda of abortion even up to after birth. After birth there is no denial that it is life but he doesn't even recognize the gender. And the recent law passed this summer in California means that a child of any age under 18 could be aborted. Please read the signs. You lie to the Holy Spirit you die or are lost forever beyond any Christian redemption. Selling your soul is the same as blasphemous the Holy Spirit. You have denied life itself.Get deeper in the story of the individual who sold his home and kept some of the income for himself and his wife and then told the Apistle what he gave to the Church is all he got. He was called out for it because the Apostle knew how much he had received. He immediately dropped dead. If he had said he kept a portion for he and his wife they wouldn't have been caught in a lie.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
There is a common mentality these days that is frightened and small, seeking security and control through marginalization, denigration and subjugation.
For example, conservatives are very fond of asking liberals to define what a woman is. This makes for brilliant PR, because to liberals sex and gender are a complex and multilayered issue, based on science. To conservatives however, as with most things, it is a very simple issue. To conservatives, a woman is a uterus. Just a uterus. This establishes how conservatives look at all gender and reproduction issues. In the conservative worldview, a uterus receives man's seed and nurtures the young. This is opposed to the man's role in the conservative worldview, which is that of sower, provider, and protector. To conservatives, this establishes the subservience of women and the superiority of men, and because they think this, they call it "Natural Law". This is why in the conservative worldview gender divergence is "against nature", and why they feel it is their right to establish rights above the rights of women. This is why conservatives find gender rights and equality abhorrent, and are constantly seeking ways to marginalize women. That's the brutal truth.
The foundation of the anti-abortion movement is religious or ideological, depending on who you ask. The act, however, is to FORCE a woman to have a child she does not want. Having established the need to control women, the religious imagine God sends a soul into the womb at the moment of conception, and the ideological simply declare a brainless zygote is the same as an adult. Having decided that abortion is MURDER, they then feel justified in imposing their marginalization of women by any means, even to the reduction of women solely to the function of the uterus they imagine they are.
It is through these psychological contortions that they also deliver their judgements against any resistance - the more resistance, the more severe the judgement - and when this lunacy is pointed out to them for what it is, they cry "RELIGION BASHING!", angry at having been denied their virtue-gasms. Boo-hoo for them.
Nobody is getting aborted at birth or when they are ~up to~ 18 years of age, but so desperate are they for security and control they will grasp at any justification for their self-perceived superiority - but it is just as illusory as their propaganda.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
You really have such faith in man. No baby will be aborted at birth. They do it all the time. Where gave you been living? That's like saying nobody will ever send anyone to a fake shower, gas them, then off to the oven they go. If you have such trust or faith in man more power to you. You are disgusting. I don't nor ever will. That's one reason I prefer to trust in a higher being proven true time and time again. As I've said in previous posts wait until you die. You might have wished taking a different approach. I for one believe. That takes alot of faith. Science will never give you answers. Faith will. Especially in a faith that has consistently proven itself to be true time and time again.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"You wait until you die."
If I were you KASE, rather than constantly thinking about what other people are doing in their own bedrooms, I'd be thinking more about myself.
Conservatives could care less about babies, children, or women. This is why conservative voters and politicians are consistently against women's rights, subsidies for neonatal care, daycare, HeadStart, school lunches, welfare, food stamps, maternity leave, preschool, and any other mother/child assistance you can think of.
Conservatives just want to look DOWN on others. Conservatives want women in their 'place'. They want women to have no choice getting pregnant, and no choice staying pregnant.
And they want to have no resistance to their oppressive misogynistic policies, because when anybody points out their lunacy for what it is it makes them sad. So keep on casting your religious magic spells, spreading your rationalizations, your judgement, your misery, and be sure to invoke God in your every damnation.
Unconscious flesh is just unconscious flesh. A fetus doesn't even approach the sophistication necessary for awareness until the third trimester, but nobody has an unnecessary abortion in the third trimester anyway, so that's not what this is about. You can't invent 'rights' for an undeveloped unthinking unfeeling unbreathing unborn unperson by stealing them from an actual thinking feeling breathing aware PERSON.
I have nothing to fear. Nobody is required to light themselves on fire to warm another, EVER - but if you think someone should, feel free to light yourself - because it sure sounds like you've got a good start.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Well since you want to consider a blob of cells nonlife. Then let's consider you a blob of cells as well and abort you as the Nazis did the Jews, the Turks did to the Armenians and the Communists to non communists, and on and on. I for one do not care to share this world with someone who doesn't care to share it with me and respect my religious heritage.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I have no idea by what you mean in the first part of your reply, other than the obvious conclusion that you have no understanding of my replies.
About respecting your 'religious heritage' - it is YOU that has no respect for anybody else, demanding everybody else be subjugated by your 'Holy Spirit' superstition.
Against abortion? Then don't have one.
Not your womb - not your choice.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Comment removed by user.
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Minister Butterworth
Keith,
I agree with you on most of what you say. However, it is and will continue to be my contention that anyone, regardless of their sins may be forgiven and redeemed right up to the end, to the last breath, so says the Bible. One only needs to call on Jesus with truth in ones in their hearts.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
And you have the truth, right MRB?
Or do you.
Anti-abortionists are rapists.
Rape, by definition, is copulation against someone's will. Rape, by definition, is to have forced impregnation. Rape, by definition, is procreation without consent.
Rapists rape because they want what someone has, and they take it by force, completely disregarding what the other person wants, their sole consideration their own gratification.
The foundation of the anti-abortionist movement is religious or ideological, depending on who you ask. The act, however, is to FORCE a woman to have a child she does not want. Having established the need to control women, the religious decide God sends a soul into the womb at the moment of conception, and the ideological simply declare a brainless zygote is the same as an adult. Having decided that abortion is MURDER, they then feel justified in imposing their delusions by any means.
This becomes doubly apparent when anti-abortionists force a woman to carry and deliver a baby from rape. First a man uses the woman's body for his physical gratification, then the anti-abortionists use her body for their religious/ideological gratification. It becomes a rape after a rape, with lifelong consequences for the woman and ZERO responsibilities for her rapists. Throughout all of this the woman has NO SAY as person after person uses her body against her will for their own gratifications.
This is what makes anti-abortionists rapists.
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Minister Butterworth
What about the baby that just wants to grow and be born. A baby who hasn't never done a thing to anyone. Just kill him or her with a scraper hook. This is murder.
With cases of rape and in cases where to carry to term would endanger the mother, i could see the point. What of the women who have multiple abortions. Birth control is an option many fail to use. Im good with the morning after pill that prevents the pregnancy.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
MRB,
Let's take a quick look at the history of the anti-abortion movement:
ANNA MARIA MOZZONI (1837–1920) is commonly held as the founder of the woman's movement in Italy, most known for her pivotal involvement in gaining woman's suffrage in Italy.
IN 1864, ANNA MARIA MOZZONI triggered a widespread women's movement in Italy when she published a feminist critique of the Italian Civil Code that raised awareness of the injustices in Italian that discriminated against women (𝘓𝘢 𝘋𝘰𝘯𝘯𝘢 𝘦 𝘪 𝘴𝘶𝘰𝘪 𝘙𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘪 𝘚𝘰𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭𝘪 𝘪𝘯 𝘖𝘤𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘥𝘦𝘭𝘭𝘢 𝘙𝘦𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘥𝘦𝘭 𝘊𝘰𝘥𝘪𝘤𝘦 𝘐𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘢𝘯𝘰).
IN 1865, UNMARRIED ITALIAN WOMEN gained legal majority, as well as equal inheritance for women and married women gained the right to become the legal guardian of their children and their property if abandoned by their husbands. THIS DID NOT OCCUR WITHIN A VACUUM.
Feminist movements emerged in England and Scandinavia during the 1850s, followed by Germany, Bohemia, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Moldavia in the 1860s. This wave of feminism would wash across Eastern and Southern Europe over the next two decades.
THEN SUDDENLY, in 1869, Pope Pius IX issued a papal bull declaring abortion at any time after conception to be a sin, worthy of excommunication from the Church, thus establishing the Catholic Church's current position that "life begins at conception." Prior to 1869, the Church was permissive of abortion before quickening, a position it held for three centuries.
The discovery of penicillin led to significant reductions in syphilis mortality, which, in turn, spurred an increase in non-traditional sex during the mid to late 1950s. The development of the birth control pill in 1960 gave women access to easy and reliable contraception. Divorce rates dramatically increased, and marriage rates were significantly decreasing in this time period. The number of unmarried Americans aged twenty to twenty-four more than doubled from 4.3 million in 1960 to 9.7 million in 1976. These and other factors led to what was to become known as the 'Sexual Revolution' of the '60s in which women found new freedoms and sexual expression.
You can read how the Republican party came to exploit the modern turn of events here: https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/181629
You said it yourself - the overused and untrue trope of "loose women" using abortion as birth control. The truth is the number one listed reason for abortion is FAILED birth control. The pill has a failure rate of 9%. Male condom 18%. Female condom 21%.
https://americanpregnancy.org/unplanned-pregnancy/birth-control-pills-patches-and-devices/birth-control-failure/
As you can see, anti-abortion has ALWAYS been a reactionary movement to marginalize and control women. It is simply conservatives exercising their influence to control social change.
As to your initial questions, please go back and read my previous comments. I answered you several times over already.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
You are placing a false assettion on a passage that makes it very clear that when you lie to the Holy Spirit that you still can be saved by changing your mind. Sorry, Scripture doesn't uphold that. You can deny Christ many times and always accept the truth but the Spirit is quite different. It is the Spirit that gives life and takes it in and within Jesus Christ and God the Father, but when you sell your soul to the devil there is no forgiveness. It is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. You have rejected the final person of the Trinity. Jesus made it very clear and so did the Apostles. That act once decided upon and acted upon allows no forgiving act. Adolf Hitler could not be saved because he sold his soul to the devil and only God knows when he did that. Probably at the decision of reaching the Final Solution. Then he took his life at the end. This man was the personification of the devil himself. The Antichrist. What he had planned for humankind would have been horrific. The complete annihilation of the Jewish people and eventually the complete genocide of all Africans had he achieved taking control of Africa. He eventually would have turned on the Arabs also once he achieved the use of them. No I am sorry but there is a point where one goes to far and that is the rejection of the Holy Spirit who gives life. I don't know where you acquired your theological training but definitely not at a Catholic or Orthodox seminary or reputable Anglican seminary or any reputable Protestant seminary. It sounds like an evangelical opinion you are trying to argue and it doesn't hold to sound theology based on Jewish theology or Soteriology in the study of the Church Fathers. You can consistently deny God the Father or Jesus Christ but once you deny the Holy Spirit there is no salvation beyond that choice. You have sealed your fate. And ones actions and consistent pursuit of fulfilling and pursuing absolute abortion is unforgivable. As the Jewush Talmud teaches you save one life you've saved the whole human race. The first time it mentions that it is the life of a child. The next time it mentions that it is an adult. Biden, Pelosi, Obama and others have sold their souls to the devil. There is no salvation for them.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Why are you so anxious to see people damned?
No brain = no person.
Even God knows that.
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Minister Butterworth
Keith,
If one has had a change of heart, if one truly realizes the error of their ways, they need only confess to Jesus and ask for forgiveness in Christs name and one will be forgiven. This must be a genuine change to ones life. One cannot pull the wool over the Almightys eyes.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I would recommend you do more research into the writings of the theologians and Patristic writings . They make it very clear there is a fine line to your theology. Once you've crossed that line there is no salvation. It is very much like the angels. They had will but once they made the decision to reject God there was no turning back. Once a man has sold his soul to the devil and I mean to the devil there is no turning back for any redemption. Their fate is sealed. St Paul persecuted the Jews but did so in a sense of religious righteousness. He did not commit evil by selling his soul to Satan. Once you have made the choice and you fully know the consequences of your actions there is no turning back. You have sealed your fate. I will not keep harping on this but for once I could give many sources but I don't give those sources because someone feels their theology is correct. Your theology has many flaws in it. Even Jesus never condemned the use of the death penalty for taking life. Once you have taken life you have renounced your own right to life when taken unjustly. You have chosen to dissociate yourself from society and the respect of all human life. Blood is the essence and meaning of life. Since humankind is made in the image of God you are killing God Himself. You have rejected God. You have denounced God. You have ultimately made the decision to sell your soul to the devil. Any ounce of goodness is now gone. There is no redemption . Hitler could never have made an act of self redemption. To even entertain the idea of him doing so is repugnant to the meaning of life and to the souls of all who died by the hands of such unredemptive social misfits. I will not nor ever pray for the souls of such individuals. By their actions of disaffirming life they have made their choice. The criminal who denounced Jesus on the Cross could not be saved. He rejected the Holy Trinity with his decision. You can reject God, you can reject the Son of God and later choose to accept them both, but once you've chosen to blaspheme the Holy Spirit there is no longer any salvation. You have sold your soul to the devil and there is no act of self redemption after that. What I mean by self redemption is you can no longer change your mind. You should read the Bishop's letter of Archbishop Corddileone of San Francisco. He states that you offer the act of forgiveness towards the actions of certain politicians who go against the teachings of the Church by offering to sit down with them to discuss the futility of their path to unredemptive hell. You offer them the choice of salvation. If they consistently refuse to respond to your offer of Christ's salvific act then they ultimately have already sold their souls to the devil himself. Their actions show where their souls are. Beyond that there is no longer any redemption. They have chosen who their god is. Best not to waste your prayers over such individuals. They have revealed their hatred for God and his children. They are empty walking shells of humanity. And for them to continue saying they are good practicing Catholics and by continually receiving communion in other churches after they have been excommunicated by their own Bishops they just are piling coal after hot coal on their heads.. and the refusal.of Pope Francis not abiding by those acts of excommunication by giving them communion seals his fate as well. He has sins he should seek forgiveness for by not showing support and respect of his fellow Bishops actions. Not all popes are saints and this present pope has shown radical actions which actually scandalizes the faithful and the Church in the world. A Pope's teachings need not be followed when they go against the doctrine and holy teaching of the Church. Only when they speak ex cathedra.
In the last days the Antichrist will be the most evil personified and he will be a pope. The very last one. It horrifies me to see how some fellow Catholics embrace Pope Francis when some of his teachings are strictly anti catholic. Beware of another's actions and walk carefully. -
Minister Butterworth
My research is complete. In the new testament, under the grace of God, all who have a change of heart and truly want to confess and be redeemed have the opportunity. Period. Read rev.22; 18-19.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Well. You're wrong. You lie to the Holy Spirit it is the unforgivable sin. Better study acts . Do not assert you know the Bible if you're not a Christian. You seek yoyr soul to the devil thete is no turning back. Better read some C.S Lewis.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Whatever floats your boat Keith.
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Minister Butterworth
Keith,
YOU SAY; im wrong? Maybe you should put down your c.s. Lewis and read the Bible before you try to correct anyone.
If you were to directly witness Jesus wield the power of the Holy Spirit for healing or any other miracle and then attribute said miracle to the power of satan, this is blasphemy, this is unforgivable. Were you to read the entire section instead of just the paragraph that says what you want, it will make this much more clear. Witnessing the Holy Spirit in person while possible, is unlikely until the wonderful day that Jesus chooses to come back for his flock. Daniel 9-9. Under the grace of God all things are forgivable.
Question; why are you so gung-ho to see a person condemned? As Christians, we must pray for those in the grasps of sin, pray for their eyes to be opened and that should find redemption. A true Christian is never happy or glad to see a soul lost to hell. God doesn't want us to go to hell. We are his flock, He doesn't want to LOSE us to satan. It is gods desire that we all enter into heaven redeemed and righteous. See John 3:16 for an example of how much He loves us and wants us to be redeemed.
You say he is going straight to hell. This is judgement. Judgement is gods job. It is not for us to do. See luke 6:37.I know some of the things people do are pretty awful but the Bible teaches us to pray for those lost. It is not for us to judge them nor to ponder the condition of their soul.
YOU SAY: "do not assert you know the Bible if you're not a Christian". Very interesting choice of words for you. Instead of using a few lines of the Bible trying to sound right, consider the scripture in its entirety. Try matt 12:22-37.
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Catherine
Hinduism is not an organized religion.
I think religious faith should never be a factor with who runs for any office, especially the presidency. Ever.
I like bacon. An east Indian president could put a dent in my diet. Not looking good.
I think following the money is a better idea for comprehending economic motives. India is notorious for dishonest business practices. Then again, which countries aren't?
Kinda wondering if countries are 'bobbing for apples'; the US being one of the yummiest apples in the barrel for resources with a workforce conditioned to tolerate abuses.
What does appeal to me about Hinduism is that given basic parameters and rules, someone who practices Hinduism decides their how, what, when, and where. Seems closer to self-determination and autonomy than organized religions allow.
I think any practice requiring humans to believe in other than themselves, is a blight on humanity.
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Paul
The UK has a Hindu Prime Minister. He's a nasty piece of work but that's his politics not his religion. Ireland has a Prim Minister who is half Indian and a gay atheist. In neither instance is the religion or lack thereof an issue and or has zero bearing on their ability to take objective decisions.
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Rev Mark D
Exactly. Who you eat is irrelevant in a non-totalitarian or non-theocrtatic democracy and republic...
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Rev. MichaelRS
Well of course he can....as long as it's president of India.
Oh relax. I'm just kidding.
Sadly Article VI of The Constitution requires that all persons wishing to be president profess profound belief in Jesus Christ as their lord and savior. So that would exclude Hindus and many others.
Still kidding.
But since there is Article VI of The Constitution the whole question of whether or not a Hindu CAN be president is moot.
The question then becomes will certain other people's vote for him in sufficient numbers that he can be elected to the office.
All I can say is that if the person has shown that they love America and will put it first over the globalist and Godless Socialist/Communist, then they are likely to get my vote.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I thumbed you up not because I agree with you - specifically - but because you made it entertaining.
That I appreciate.
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Catherine
@Rev. MichaelRS
Any president truly putting America first seems unlikely, given globally interrelated rulers tend toward using status and position to grow personal bank accounts and property holdings. How else is America's destruction course explained?
"According to his most recent public tax return in 2015, Biden filed a joint tax return with his second wife Jill Biden, reporting a total adjusted gross income of $392,233 under a 23.3% tax rate, totaling some $91,546 in total federal tax.
But Joe Biden's net worth took a turn for the better in early 2017, when Joe and Jill Biden signed a multi-book deal... Rumor has it the book deal was for $8 million."
This is not to pick on left, right, or middle. Similar deals are brokered for all sides. Those that stay there, do so the same way they get there: deal making.
I sometimes ponder what independent candidates manage to acquire by routing their votes to the left or right when push comes to shove. I think those votes go to the highest bidder.
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Susan Colmenares
I don’t see the problem at all.
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Rev Mark D
Yes, there is no problem to be had.
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Stephanie A Willey
Listening to his words and statements, he is most certainly reaching out to the MAGA base and the "former guy" has even recently published encouragement and praise for his statements and positions. Now the MAGA base is mostly white, Christian, homophobic, and lean heavily toward white supremist ideologies. So HOW will a Hindu (note: the Hindu religion is not a mono theology, not a critique but just an observation), brown skin man with an obviously not "American" name Vivek Ramaswamy accomplish his goal of the US Presidency? Some of my very knowledgeable friends argue that if Vivek just says the "right" things long and loudly enough, the MAGA base will follow him just as they followed the "former guy". While I'm not convinced, it will be fascinating to watch just how Ramaswamy progresses.
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Joseph Knopick
Absolutely.
We are not a Theocracy. The religion of a candidate can weigh in on whether or not the candidate is someone you'd vote for. However the integrity of the candidate and moral position they take is far more important.
We've had mostly all Christian presidents. Not all of them would fit as the ideal Christian. Jefferson was a Diest, not a Christian.
If the candidate was a Satanist, same would apply. However, someone who directly worships the concept of evil embodied, well, I suspect they'd not get a very good vote turn out.
A Hindu, why not?
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Rev Mark D
Actually we are a theocracy, maga is one religion and radical left is another, the functions are absolutely the same.
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Chris
The Constitution, something the MAGA crowd knows as much about as the book they love to thump, specifically says there shall not be a religious test for any federal office. Therefore, as long as he meets the the real qualifications he has as much right to run as any of the others, and possibly more so. That's not to say I support him or any other MAGA person. Personally, I'd rather see an atheist or Pagan in the WH than any organized religious follower, but I'll settle for someone who won't try to make their professed (but not followed) beliefs into law.
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James Mounts
The question was not whether he could legally run for president, but whether we would vote for him. The Constitution has nothing to say about for whom I vote. Apparently far left radicals are also ingorant of The Constitution.
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Rev Mark D
"Apparently..." Good one!
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Chris
The question, James, as stated at the very top of the article, is whether a Hindu can be president. Apparently you read this as well as you have the Constitution and the bible.
However, since you insist the question at hand is whether we would embrace a candidate with whom I don't share a faith, as posed at the very end of the article, then the answer is yes. I will embrace a candidate who does not insist theirs is the only religion and does not insist on violating the First Amendment by putting their "beliefs" into law.
It's a shame actually following the Constitution makes one a "far left radical." I guess that shows how little some care for the rule of law.
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James Mounts
No, Junior, using "MAGA" as a derogative is what makes you a radical leftist.
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Chris
Interesting. I only stated I would not support a MAGA person. You see this as derogatory. Very telling that you see anyone who disagrees with you as "radical."
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
A Hindi could but won’t.
Bernie Sanders was hampered by being Jewish. Although his democratic socialist views likely hurt him more. Are you also avoided questions regarding his believe in God and there were some that thought that he was atheistic. Of course I voted for him. Twice. And his views so well echoed what I have felt my entire life that I had to go out and vote and that was the first time in my life that I had voted. So I had both something to vote for in a particular individual to vote against.
And, as with Sanders, the DNC would likely ‘nix and fix’ the nomination just as that seem to have done with Sanders.
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John W
There is no religious means test in the Constitution, so the chosen faith of a candidate is or should not be an issue. So long as the candidate meets the qualifications as written in the Constitution of the United States with regard to age and being native born than it should only be about how they address the issues of the American people.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I have no problem with his religion.
But I've heard him speak. He's a total right-wing nut-job. Perhaps someday the conservative party will come back to reality - but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
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Rev Mark D
He's a typical Wall Street scam artist and hustler.
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Michael Holland
The reality of Mr. Ramaswamy’s business career is more complex, the story of a financier more than a scientist, and a prospector who went bargain hunting, hyped his vision, drew investment and then cashed out in two huge payouts — totaling more than $200 million — before his 35th birthday.
Mr. Ramaswamy’s enterprise is best known for a spectacular failure. As a 29-year-old with a bold idea and Ivy League connections, he engineered what was at the time the largest initial public offering in the biotechnology industry’s history — only to see the Alzheimer’s drug at its center fail two years later and the company’s value tank. His failure has nothing to do with his religion, he's a poor businessman just like trump!
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ServantOfJudgement
- Is the president faithful to his wife?
- Will he prevent an unchecked invasion of my country?
- Will he continue to borrow against the American Dream and plunder it or will he do as the citizenry must do, pay as we go?
- Will the working American continue to endure 21st century slavery for the sake of the elite, capital gains, climbing change cash cows, parasitic citizens and corporate welfare?
- Will he repeal the horrific laws imposed upon my fellow citizens? There are many.
- Will my fallen brothers and sisters be important to him?
- Will I carry his gold or will I cut my own road?
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Amber Fry
Probably not. The right has gone Christian Nationalist for the most part and the left wouldn't trust a Republican regardless of his religion in office these days... particularly one that is a businessman. We have far too many of those in office already.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Heck.no. most are RINOS. Can't trust them. Conservatism is here to stay.
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Daniel Robert Paluscsak
For a nation, where one of the founding principles was separation of Church and State and Freedom of Religion, the American people really have a confused view of what that is supposed to mean. And through it's almost 250 year history has quite handily shown it's spiritual bigotry and hatereds. It took almost 185 years before the first Catholic was elected president, and even now, Joe Biden happens to only be the second, a 60 year gap! With that idea in place of the separation of Church and State, how, according to law, should being a practising Hindu be a barricade to holding the Office of President? It should not! A person's walk of faith is a personal, not public one. I have stronger issues with Mr. Ramaswamy's politics as a Republican than as his life as a Hindu.
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Rev. Jim Sutton
"Separation of Church and State" was never a "founding principle." If it had been, there would've been no need for the First Amendment.
And all it states is that the U.S. will not proclaim or set up or establish a national religion nor support any religion over another. That is not "separation."
Again, if there was true separation, "In God We Trust" would not be on our money and government meetings/gatherings would neither open or close with prayers, blessings, invocations, etc.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Joe Biden is no Catholic. He only says he is. His actions prove he has excommunicated himself from the faith as many others have.
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taycomama
I would not object to any non-Christian candidate. I would not vote for Mr Ramaswamy because he's a Republican. His religion is irrelevant.
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TZTX
I found it interesting that the headline is, will Americans vote for a non Christian president. They did for Obama, and they did for Biden. Just because someone says they believe in God does not make them a Christian
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ServantOfJudgement
That's it, you said it T
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Minister Butterworth
TZTX,
Absolutely. Even satan BELIEVES in God, and we know he's not a Christian.
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Ronaldo
Considering the behavior of some of the men who sat in the White House, I'd say it's a safe bet we have had more than one non-Christian in that office. They may have professed to be Christians, but their works that have defined them otherwise.
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Rev Ned
We’ve had Protestants, a Catholic, a Pseudo-Christian (45). Why not try a Hindu?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Btw, people DO know, according to the Treaty of Tripoli, which our founding fathers signed, it made it VERY clear that the USA is a SECULAR nation, not a Christian one, right?
They put that right into wording of the Treaty. Also, first part of 1st Amendment : Government shall not officially recognize any one religion, or many any laws in recognition, or enforcement thereof.
Hard-core separation of Church and State.
Whenever Church and State become the same thing, as is happening in many modern countries, and happened in the world's past, thousands of innocent young girls, young women, older women, and thousands of innocent young boys, young men, and older men, are brutally murdered.
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Michael Holland
No if Muslims are frowned upon so are Hindu, they do not believe in christ and the country was founded on religious principles although seperation of church and state are paramount. If the church wants a say in government then they should be taxed!
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Parson Golden
You are wrong, the country was not founded on religious principles.
You are correct, the church should be taxed. Clearly it has partisan inclinations.
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David Cox
Back up your arguments with fact or keep quiet
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Lionheart
Do you have facts that your god is real? If you do, there is a Nobel Prize waiting for you. You’ll be the first person on earth with supporting facts to claim the prize. Are you up to the task?
🦁❤️
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Minister Butterworth
God is most certainly real. That is a fact.
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Lionheart
Will your name be on this years Nobel Prize as you come forward to prove to the world, with real demonstrable facts, that your god is real?
Saying “God is real” is no different to me saying fairies, and unicorns are real. Come up with the goods or your name won’t be on that prize.
Why am I thinking you will not be claiming the prize? 🤔
🦁❤️
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Minister Butterworth
Im not seeking a prize nor any other type of recognition. I believe God is real and awesome. You believe God is not real. Im not going to change my belief system. You seem to be solid in belief system. I wish you the best.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
There's the foundation of empirical science right there - "I'm not going to change my belief system".
And then people wonder why it took 150,000 years to stop living in caves.
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Minister Butterworth
Lol
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Maximillian Martin
This country was NOT founded on religious principles, especially any of the abrahamic religions!!! IT IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN A christian NATION!!!!
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Dr. Jerry Moyes
100% correct
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
100% wrong. Read our documents of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, Plymouth, Jamestown, And Maryland. They made it very clear.
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Minister Butterworth
Mm,
You may be correct but Christian values have been showing up for many years. An example would be "In God We Trust" which first began in feb. 22, 1864. Food for thought.
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Maximillian Martin
No, you're wrong. That saying was started July 30, 1956. That's when congress, in its infinite stupidity, declared it the national motto because of the so called communist panic. And, even IF it was used sooner, what so called god was referred to? There have been many in history and the abrahamic one was definitely NOT the first!!!!
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Minister Butterworth
MM,
Before you tell someone there wrong, it would seem intelligent to do your research first. Feb 22, 1864, United States 2 cent coin came with "In God We Trust".
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Minister Butterworth
Amendment to my previous post;
The "In God We Trust" began showing up on United States fractional currency feb. 22, 1864.
My apologies to all for any confusion caused by my mistake.
Thank you,
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taycomama
I'm Jewish. There has never been a candidate whose faith I shared.
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Rev Mark D
Barry Goldwater, Michael Bloomberg, Joe Lieberman, Bernie Sanders, Arlen Specter, Marianne Williamson.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Christians in the country will never let it happen.
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Daniel Gray
Dont see why not, the law says you cannot discriminate between religions
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Doesn’t seem to apply to xtian views of atheists, agnostics and any other religions!
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Daniel Gray
There is NO separation of church and state. The Constitution was made the law of the land in 1787. the very FIRST mention of this myth was in 1802 a good fifteen years AFTER the Constitution was ratified. So tell us child, when was where was the Constitutional amendment to make this part of the constitution, sent out and ratified? I wont hold my breath waiting as you cant.
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Chris
Check the First Amendment. It implicitly states the federal government shall not show preference to any religion. They did this because the US was never intended to be a theocracy but rather to be free from any one religion taking charge. There's your separation of church and state.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
DG prefers not so see it that way - and that you also see it his way.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Kenny, but after the Constitution was ratified in 1787, then you would need a constitutional amendment to put your myth into the constitution, so tell you what. Hows about you show us when and where this constitutional amendment was ever brought up or sent to the states for ratification. I wont hold my breath waiting as you cant.
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Rev. Jim Sutton
Not showing preference is not the same as separation. As I've pointed out numerous times, IF there was a TRUE separate of church and state, then there'd be no "In God We Trust" motto on our currency and numerous government meetings wouldn't open (or close) with prayers, blessings, invocations, etc.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Is that the result of a religious Constitution, or religious politicians?
The religious are continuously working to rule the world. It makes a difference.
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Rev. Rory
I don't know why the GOP bothers to run non-Christians, non-Whites, or women at all. Many in prominent positions in the party have expressed that those are disqualifying traits. Obviously many people have responded that a non-Christian is a no-go. Too bad. This is not a theocracy - yet.
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
A real Hindu would be a lot of fun. Mr. Ramaswamy talks like there is only one god. That is boring, and not the slightest bit Hindu. I personally have 16 gods. Much more interesting for me.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Have you seen a psychiatrist?
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Summer Weber
Who cares what religion he is as long as your "faith" doesn't dictate everyone else's laws🤷♀️ he reminds me if a used car salesman or game show host at the debate
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Merlin
Everyone has a personal philosophy. Some are more adamant or needy. Defines the "sheep" and the "Shepards". Leader of the free world MUST have experience in our constitutional government. Remember business is a dictatorial function. A candidate would ideally have experience in both which should give perspective. "Knowing how to fly the plane" would go along way to stop a disaster.
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Father Flanagan
America already elected a muslim president with obama who is also homosexual and we have had multiple satanists as president but unless he’s a globalist puppet ramaswmy will never get elected so I don’t know what everyone is worried about - they will cheat again and install whoever they want - if voting actually did anything they wouldn’t let us do it!
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ServantOfJudgement
I was surprised how many open satanists the current president appointed. They seem fairly open about it all nowadays. At least we don't have to wonder if the bald kleptomaniac in a dress and bright red lipstick is evil or not. I feel the same way about voting these days. Doesn't really change anything.
Bummer.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Satanist bashing.
But that's to be expected - of course.
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Dr. Jerry Moyes
I was excited to Ramsawamy enter to race, as he represents an under represented voice and point if view. With regret, some of his positions on key issues differ from mine. The religion or belief system my a public servant has no impact of thier ability to hold and office, however the inability of a candidate to understand that what they believe only impacts what they may or may not do, and how they must live, does. For this reason I won't support any fundamentalist candidate, which Ramswamy clearly isn't. The ignorance in many comments in this thread sicken me. Let me set a few misunderstanding straight: Hindu don't worship cows or other animals; President Obama wasn't and isn't Islamic; no elected US President is or has been a member of The Nazi Party. We're better then this non-sence.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
You’re right about Hindus not “worshiping” animals, but they do consider them sacred, cows being the most well known. I’m not sure how “worship” and “sacred” are actually different!
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Minister Butterworth
As a Christian, i want a true Christian with solid Christian values to be president. Looking, Looking, i just don't see any in the running. Oh sure, theres a few who say they are but past actions don't support their claims. This hindu man may not be Christian but it does seem that he has some good qualities that may make him a good president. When your options are hypocrites and nonbelievers, I'll take the nonbelievers. They at least are being honest with themselves and that is better for all.
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Reverend Marika
Doesn't the Constitution of the United States clearly state that religion is not a test for official office?
The Constitution, Article VI specifies that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
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Humanism Clergy Linda
Why not? Religious beliefs aren't what supposed to make laws of the land.
We've only had what 2 Catholics in office so far rest have been WASPS. I don't vote for their religious beliefs I vote on how ethical they appear to be.
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JaZe
Children are better served by learning about different religions, that is a democratic approach, imposing religions is not. The US is a multi cultural, ethnic, religious country not separate from the rest of the world.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
That's a lie. Look at all of creation and the universe itself. Earth put in the right spot to generate life. Really. It didn't just happen. It took an Intelligent Design to do that.
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Rev Mark D
Well Reverend Eash And what sort of design did it take to burn the Earth to an unlivable crisp as we have pretty much turned the corner on that?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
A person's religion has NOTHING to do with how they can lead. If they are Hindu? If they are a potentially good leader, yeah I'll vote for them. Same if they were Buddhist, Wiccan, Taoist, Jewish, or Muslim, or hell, even if they were a Satanist. I don't give a damn about their religion, it's the person's ability to lead and move a nation forward that counts, not what religion they follow.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
A Hindu, or anyone else, who is qualified and meets all of the Constitution's criteria to run for the office...there should be no concern regarding religion.
I am not personally impressed by the man's personality, his reprobate social and political views, his questionable agenda, or the pure lust for recognition and power I feel from him. I live in Ohio and considering the area of the state he hails from... well, what can one expect?
Unfortunately, many Indians I know plan to support him simply because he is running even if they completely disagree with his politics. They are very excited about his running, and they should be.
But that does not a presidential candidate make, because a President needs to preside over all, in all of our best interests, just as our legislators should legislate in all of our best interests, and the same goes for the courts... need I say more?
The problem with people in power is that absolute power attracts the power hungry.
I am not seeing this one's political future. He can run and compete. Just like capitalists can compete until they are out-competed and sue someone because they couldn't compete.
But, his politics aside, for me, his personal religious beliefs are no barrier, and they should not be a barrier,
Unlike the American WASPS keeping the Catholics out until JFK because they feared he would turn the country over to the Vatican.; and keeping the Jews out pretty much forever until Lieberman ran as VP in 2000; we have come closer still via Kamela Harris' husband , Second Gentleman Mr. Emhoff.
But that is not an elected office.
Crazy unfair system overall. Lots o' bigotry.
Thankfully California yesterday made some social and political in-roads to prevent the Indian caste system that keeps Dalits from achieving their full potential in that state due to caste discrimination.
Hopefully, a caste system mentality will not enter the White House?
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Donald G Magel
Don't lambast his faith. Lambast his political beliefs and goals. This guy seems to have no grasp of our political system. He seems dumber in this area than even the so-called christian right's chosen one.
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Rev Mark D
I like how you think Donald!
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David A Foreman
This is a nation of MANY, MANY religions. It is NOT a Christian Nation. So I'm just fine with a Hindu President. Just not THIS Trump imitator dictator wannabee.
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Tareq Asfour
Yes he can be president of India as like Xi is the president of China and MAGA pastor Hank Kunneman is clown shouldn’t be interfering with India or any other country unless he wants to be new emperor pope of new rome america telling others what to do
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Michael Hunt
You do realize that Vivek Ramaswamy is running to be president of America, not India...
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Tareq Asfour
Well if Vivek Ramaswamy runs for president I will vote for him in heartbeat if he could do a better job than what we have been seeing last 2000 years of nonstop bloodshed with religions of middle eastern in constant conflict with each other including what is happening in America.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
It is the people , not the church that gets involved in the government being moral and subservient to their constituents, but that's a complete joke.
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Angelic Realms
I don't know. He's of course intelligent but represents about 1%of America and Hindus Believe in Shiva and about a million sub gods and the caste system. Most concerning to me..they see that untouchables as trash and that should never be able to reach a place of self determination. They have engaging in this form of serfdom for thousands of years dooming millions to extreme poverty. They also have child brides and slavery. This is not representative of America, which is 71% white and shouldn't really be allowed. We don't need foreign people governed the masses. Kamala Harris the lagging fool is also easy Indian she's not black and her grandparents owned 56 slaves. As Hn dus they're the untouchable class so mistreatment is allowed.
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Angelic Realms
Sorry typos. Harris is East Indian and her grandparents, wealthy Brahmans, owned 56 plantation slaves. So Harris has directly benefitted from slavery. It was in the 1950's.
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Nicholas J Page
If he has the credintials to be a president and being English myself why not if he's not interested in revoking Christianity or Hinduism let him run He sure would do better than Sleepy Joe and not keep falling over.See what the polls say.
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David Cox
A person running for president should be born in America.
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Colleen McAllister
Pay attention. A candidate for US President legally must be born in the US. Do you not remember the lies spread about Obama? Vivek Ramaswamy was born here of immigrant parents.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
They weren't lies. Obama was born out of the U.S. and his mother had renounced her U.S. citizenship before he was born. That made him a non citizen. Conception when and where doesn't apply.
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Michael Hunt
That's totally false. His Hawaiian birth certificate which confirms he is a naturally born American citizen is publicly available for anyone who's actually interested in looking: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=obama+birth+certificate#ip=1
You've been conned by racist propagandists who's goal is to disparage the first, and still only, black president of our country.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Some people worship the propaganda.
There is no telling them any different.
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Rev Mark D
Actually, legally, has to, not "should."
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Austin B Beamer
This is the controversy that encircles a Nation who claims to know God, but their fruitfulness in Godly principles and actions tells otherwise. God has not let go of America! America...You've let go of God! This is the spot where Jesus should come in!
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Lionheart
….but he won’t. He’s dead! That’s if he ever really existed.
As for god….his lack of absence says it all. He obviously doesn’t care, or doesn’t exist. After all this millennia of absence, the latter seems to be the obvious answer. But to those who refuse to believe the obvious, they will create some apologist explanation rather than accept the obvious. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Rev. Jim Sutton
America has never really claimed "to know God." Just read the First Amendment. It's right there.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Don't worry. Jesus is coming. Alot of people in here are going to go into the Lake of Fire finally recognizing their mistake.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Xtianity, the religion of a loving god the father, son and holy ghost is coming to send a huge number of non xtians to the Lake of Fire because they have other beliefs or no beliefs? Have you forgotten about what science, logic, evidence, history and other human achievements have given to the living standards we all take for granted? I really don’t understand how anyone can believe such things in the 21st century with all the benefits of modern discoveries and technology!
KASEash do you really think that the people of medieval times who lived miserable lives of oppression, wars, plagues, and filthy hovels would prefer that to everything we have now thanks to science and human development?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
And do you not think times have ever changed. Poverty still exists in the Third World. Oppression, wars, plagues, filthy hotels still exist sir. Times haven't changed and science sure is not going to make it better. The climate changers claim science and they are the worst rapiers of the planet. The forests their arsonists are sitting fire to, the cloud seeding going on, the studies that The Gates Foundation supports to cool the planet by turning the suns rays back, sawing down trees to cut hydrogen dioxide in the air. The mining of lithium and what its doing to the planet and humankind mining it. I'm sorry. Don't even know a gender when a baby is born. Really dude. Cash it in and jump off the next cliff if you believe in your balderdash. Times haven't changed.
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Rev Mark D
Is a politician, so he doesn't believe in anything. Everything depends on this record, and he spends a lot of time lying about things that are easily fact checked, including things he said on camera previously.
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Alice Iline Wieland
By the American laws you must be born in America to become a president
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Patricia Ann Gross
The constitution only states you have to be a natural born citizen. Having American citizen parents and being born overseas qualifies you in that regard.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I don’t think religion should come into the decision at all but with that said, evangelicals would lose their minds. I think people might vote for him anyway if they agree with his policies. Personally, I think he could be worse than tRump. I think if religion wants to keep getting involved in politics then perhaps they should be forced to pay taxes.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
I'd rather have a non-Christian in office, but need to know his stance on other things.
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Rolando Couce
Why not we have Biden who is a communist and a Nazi who is president
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Amber Fry
False. He's is neither of those things and if you actually looked at what each of those things are and compare it to what Biden has actually been doing, not what the right lies about but the actual records, you would know otherwise.
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Rev Mark D
Gee Rolando, good answer. Yes that is a logical answer. Good thinking.
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Patricia Ann Gross
What faith a candidate proclaims is at the bottom of my list of why I would vote for them. The first questions should be, "Do they understand the Constitution, and basic legal principles?" After that I would study their platform and see if those concepts and priorities align with mine. Honestly, there is a reason that people with legal backgrounds have been more prevalent in the White House than business people. 1) they [usually] understand the law and the Constitution they swore to uphold, and 2) [most] businesses are authoritarian enterprises not democracies, and business people in politics cannot let the "I'm the boss" attitude go. Faith background has little to do with either of those. IMHO, if a candidate cannot give an overview of the Bill of RIghts, know how many articles and ammendments there are in the Constitution, and define diplomacy and bipartisanship, they have no business being in office.
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Jason A Bradford
I would have no issue voting for a Hindu, Muslim, Satanist, or whatever. I'm not concerned with their religion (unless thare are religious extremist), as I am concerned about their policies. If they can keep and maintian a separation for church and state, their religion is not a concern for me.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Otherwise you'd support a communist, a Nazi, because they are followers of Satan. Look where that's gotten the world. Guess what. Tzke my advice don't vote unless one claims a faith in God
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Val Jester
I am a born again Christian and I would vote for him in a heart beat.
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Tom Herman
People of non Christian faiths are elected as State Governor's and Legislatures so why not President? I do think however that most citizens vote for the person they believe can best do the job and religion takes only a minor role in the process. Policy positions, clearly stated plans and demonstrated experience in government mean more to me than how a person worships. Unless of course the only being they worship are themselves.
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David G Fountain
He might make a great president, problem is he will never get elected ! As long as President Trump is so popular and the number 1 pick of the majority of the Republican Party, problem is the rest of the people who hold office and call themselves Representatives of America
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Gene Schenck
All people looking to run for office must take a lie test the most truthfull may still loose for failing the test next give the same test to children they may be a better for the job all gods children must be tested for the job. George Washington maybe the only winner or may Jesus rule the world.
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Larry Wayne Worley
No. Only Christians!
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
That is a very spiteful and hateful view point there. Tell me, what's wrong with any other religion, given that there are so many.
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Rev Mark D
Hey Larry: Someday you are going to be disappointed, then what? Would it surprise you to learn that every one of the presidents of the modern era at least has not been a Christian, he's only said so for the votes and the money?
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Rev Mark D
For Larry and all the so-called Christians, a quote from a famous WASP story (the Good Shepherd, about the elite class of wasps running the country including creating and running the CIA)
- Joseph Palmi: Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the ni****s, they got their music. What about your people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?
- Edward Wilson: The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.”
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Doctor Loyal
Just separate the Religion from the Political, and accept that any candidate must not be judged by their Religion.
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Shawn
If he was not republican.......................................
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Brenda Leigh Oliiver
From what I have learned, "if someone is borne n in The united Staes of America, they are able to become Prsident, regardless of religion, faith, or gender
What’s the difference in a religion that worships animals (hint: cows, rats, etc) and a religion that worships a “triple” imaginary being (hint: father, son, holy ghost)? None!
I should have added “and all other kinds of nonsensical mumbo jumbo?”
Apart from the "Judeo-Christian" stance of an apparent majority in the Western world, did they not have a "Separation of Church and State?" Can't have your cake and.......
I'm nothing like a Christian, but have always voted in every presidential election for Christian candidates, and never have been concerned or interested in the religion of anyone running for office. Ofcourse there hasn't been anyone running for president in my lifetime who wasn't a Christian, before now. And the one who's running now has never interested me, but not because of his religion. I'm sure he doesn't stand a chance of winning, for plenty of other reasons. I wish all of our presidents had been good Pagans, or Wiccan like me, but it doesn't really matter. I don't think any of our presidents have been controlled by their religions, or have been overly religious, or they would have been ministers, instead of politics. I don't even think very many of them have been very good people. However, we never have very many people to choose from. Few people make it to the primary and we have to pick one of them. For me it's never a question of which one of them will do a good job, but which one of them isn't as bad as bad as the other ones. And considering how poorly I think of all of the 2024 candidates, there's a good chance that I'm not going to vote at all.
It's only imaginary to you. The word of God is real no matter if you don't believe it or not
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Where is your demonstrable evidence that your god is not only the real one, but is also real?
I’ll wait!
🦁❤️
Unfortunately you’ll have to wait forever as the religious will never believe in the evidence of science, logic, history and even other religions as their brains have been infected by the religion virus! Why not just say we don’t know as us agnostics and atheists say? Show me the undisputed evidence that fulfils all the tenets of science and logical explanations instead of claiming they are the only ones who are correct! I would give them so much credit if they did!
Geoffrey, You're assuming your measuring stick has the right ticks on it to read "Gods Real".
Try to realize that just because science can't find something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Try to imagine looking for something that requires a science yet unimagined or dreamed of if you can. Like back before they discovered the X Ray, back before light was a frequency, back when pathogens were a myth to science. None of these things existed until science found them? Surely man didn't will the X Ray into existence did he?
Tell me, how can you measure something you don't have the technology to detect or even suspect when it's in plain sight but hidden from you? How you detect the same thing when it's superior to you and it won't let you detect it? Really, how?
I think you are supporting my argument by that statement. Just because something cannot be proved by science, measurements or absolute observation doesn’t mean the god theory is correct either! Take the sensible path and say that science is correct as it gives a logical idea or theory until proved wrong as it freely admits is what it accepts until proved otherwise! Exactly the opposite of religionists illogical bigotry! The whole world can see the results of science, eg, space and air travel, computers, Internet, medicine, etc! Need I say more? What exactly has religion contributed to human existence except bigotry, oppression, wars and misery?
Geoffrey,
Make something up and call it fact untill proven wrong is definitely the scientific method we use. We also punish if one disagrees with the made up scientific fact waiting to be proven wrong.
Science burned down Japan with the atomic bomb. Science is busy developing new ways to kill us off and control us. Let's make sure we know what science worshiping will get us.
My statement is still true. The arrogance of vile and putrid man needs to live in a godless world, he demands it.
Once again you are only reinforcing my points. Science starts with a hypothesis, that can evolve into a theory that depends on observable evidence, for example the theory of evolution. The final stage is when the theory becomes a fact! For example, flight ambitions of humans was a hypothesis until il became a theory in the 19th century before the Wright Brothers developed their first aircraft. Now obviously a fact! So your argument of a higher being, god or whatever, is still in the hypothesis stage as there is no observable evidence that any higher being, gods or whatever, exists or existed that created the Earth and everything including the whole Universe. So where is there any evidence of a creator, and please don’t say it’s everywhere, because that’s NOT observable evidence of a higher being(s)? That’s just an observation that life developed on this planet! So when your claims of a god or higher being move from a hypothesis to a theory and finally into a fact will I accept that your religious claims are more than nonsense!
Geoffrey,
We agree. You should look at what you've said and consider any loss in credibility that may occur when a free thinker watches science change it's determinations reliability, regularly and rigorously.
This is a fun one for me, I hope you enjoy it as much as I do:
I was taught the cosmos is 4.2 billion years old. Now science says the cosmos is about 14.5 billion years old. It turns out it may be closer to 15.5 billion years old recently. Notice anything strange there? If we are to blindly trust science, that puts my age at approximately 10 billion years old. I was here when the cosmos was 4.5 billion and I'm here when it's 14.5 billion and about to turn 15.5 billion. I the mighty and righteous Servant of Judgement have walked this earth for over 10 billion years, so says science. Please stay seated, I'm not so prideful that you must stand in my ancient everlasting presence. And don't try to shine my shoes, it's embarrassing.
If your god can't be detected, if can't have any effect on anything. Therefore we can safelty ignore whether or not it exists.
Mike, Since when does not knowing something render the thing you don't know nonexistent? Again, mans putrid rotting ego strikes again.
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Strawman!
I didn't say it doesn't exist. I just said if it can't be detected. it can't affect us. That's simple logic.
Like the AIDS virus in the blood donated for you from a person who has it but it just can't be measured right now... Will that assurance be enough for you when you need a transfusion? I think not, certainly wouldn't for me.
You'll think differently after you die.
As will you.
Do the research yourself instead of people giving you your answer. I get tored.of lazy people who can't do research themselves.
So I take it you have 'proof' instead of just collecting validations that other people have said.
Right?
Lionheart
Produce self generated life form from muddy water or anything for that matter, I don't care. You can't use a laboratory though, that would be cheating, remember your God is spontaneous unassisted self creating life, no labs allowed. Using a lab only proves it can't have happened naturally. If you can not, I must reserve a slot for you in the fairytale bin next to unicorns, hippogryphs and things that can't be proved.
Ill wait for your not-created self spawned creature but in the meantime let's have fun and start picking unicorn names...
SOJ - Create life from God's will. Go ahead - just do it. No millions of years in a chemical soup allowed! If you cannot do it I must reserve a slot for you in the fairytale bin next to unicorns, hippogryphs and things that can't be proved.
I'll wait for your not-created spawn of God's will but in the meantime let's have fun and start picking unicorn names...
Kenneth,
No. I'm not God and he doesn't work for me. Reserve any slot for me you like, it doesn't change mans rotting ego that tells him if he doesn't know then it's not real and can't possibly exist.
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I dismiss your dismissal.
There is no evidence for a 'Creator' - and that's a fact.
That's a lie. Look at all b of creation and the universe itself. Earth put in the right spot to generate life. Really. It didn't just happen. It took an Intelligent Design to do that.
That's a great hypothesis you have there. Have you devised an experiment with which to demonstrate your theory - or are you just talking out of your rear?
The Creator would be very disappointed KASE.
No, life evolved to fit the conditions on Earth. If the Earth had been somewhere else, any life evolving there would fit the condidtions there.
Exactly!
One problem with the religious view is that it is so simplistic, so predictive. They envision a static universe where the 'Creator', like some sort of Great Decorator just whips things up and then sticks things here and there to make the world we know, which will then never change.
Their ignorance is their loss. They have no conception that the real magic of the universe is constant renewal. This is the real trick that makes all that has happened possible. The heavier elements in our own bodies, all born from the lives of previous stars. The muck that first launched the reverse entropy of life, eventually evolving to look up at the stars - the universe literally waking up and wondering at itself - all without leaving a trace of the ultimate source.
These are the true wonders. This is the true genius of 'Creation', the contemplation of which gives a profound sense of astonishment and gratitude.
Oh really. If we had been placed where Pluto or Mercury is. Sad ti say your Biden science is way off.
Your dismissal is rejected Kenneth. I'm holding you to the same standard you hold me to. Science can not demonstrate or identify self creating life therefore you are forced to believe, you can not know, you must do as I must do, you must believe.
As far as proof goes for the existence of God, I have found sufficient proof for me to believe. It's quite obvious to me. When weighing the improbability of the two against one another, self spawning flawless life requires more miraculous events to occur and requires continual miraculous events to be maintained. Atheism actually requires a greater faith than God requires and knows nothing of forgiveness for there is none to be found in nature. No wonder why I ruled out Atheism, it's kinda well, dumb.
"You must believe".
You mean I too must accept wild conjecture over observable evidence? That's delusion squared.
Notice how you just talk over me, the same as you talk over reality. Your statements about me, about anybody you disagree with, are ultimately just about you.
And I never said I was atheist. Fact is I don't push my beliefs on others, because I see no point. What I personally believe - what I have personally seen - you have no idea, but none of that matters does it SOJ. You have your beliefs, and you just assume they define the entire universe and everyone in it - as I told you months ago.
The Bible, which you likely believe is 'the word of god', is a composition of myth, magic and metaphor. Collectively an invitation to imagination. Most recently, many hardcore evangelicals are convinced christians need to (once again) reinterpret the book so that it more readily meets their "personal needs"....it's too weak they say.
CB
Yes I believe the document is what it says it is. Archeologists have uncovered many of the events revealed to us and continue to do so. One by one, event after event is uncovered.
Let me square you up: The bible is a composition of myth, magic, metaphor, poetry, music, fact, psychology, science, health, logic, love, war, mans despicable nature and most important of, The Word of God.
Now you're square.
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"...I believe...".
Yes, you do.
Next.
Myth can be truthful just as legends can be truthful. Otherwise do some research. You'll find much holds elements of truth. That's what storytelling is all about. If we didn't have storytelling this world would be in worse shape then it already is. And I can officially tell you the evil onbthe world is real and has infiltrated the souls of many who are the real elements of ruining our planet on their false climate change. Danm the communists.
I know what you mean KASE.
I am a feather on the bright sky I am the blue horse that runs in the plain I am the fish that rolls, shining, in the water I am the shadow that follows a child I am the evening light, the luster of meadows I am an eagle playing with the wind I am a cluster of bright beads I am the farthest star I am the cold of dawn I am the roaring of the rain I am the glitter on the crust of the snow I am the long track of the moon in a lake I am a flame of four colors I am a deer standing away in the dusk I am a field of sumac and the pomme blanche I am an angle of geese in the winter sky I am the hunger of a young wolf I am the whole dream of these things You see, I am alive, I am alive I stand in good relation to the earth I stand in good relation to the gods I stand in good relation to all that is beautiful I stand in good relation to the daughter of Tsen-tainte You see, I am alive, I am alive.
—The Delight Song of Tsoai-talee by N. Scott Momaday
As a Secular Humanist Pantheist, we don’t believe (which requires no evidence, whatsoever) we SHP’ers know, based on solid non-controversial evidence, that God exists, and I’m able to prove it, at the drop of a hat.
Because God and Nature are the same thing — ergo, anything you can see, hear, smell, taste, breath, or otherwise interact with, is God (AKA, nature)
Anyone not knowing that nature and God are the same thing, is an atheist ( as the Romans, who believed In Jupiter, called the early Christians),
Exactly, put in to perspective.