Elections have consequences, and the most recent election in the United States is no exception. What may be exceptional, though, is a movement quickly taking hold among young women in response to what they see as a threat to their bodily autonomy. They’re calling for a sex strike.
Why Women Are Mad
Perhaps one of the most consequential, and most heated, issues in the last election cycle was the question over access to abortion. Across the country, thousands of women adopted the mantra “My Body, My Choice” as they sought to protect what they view as their freedom to bodily autonomy and their right to make their own medical decisions.
Since the re-election of Donald Trump, however, it appears as though opponents to this idea have grown incredibly emboldened. This clip in particular, from a controversial right-wing content creator celebrating the election results, has been making the rounds and fueling heartbreak and anger.
His conversion of the popular “My Body, My Choice” slogan to “Your Body, My Choice” has since been appearing more and more online, and even in real life scenarios. One school district in Minnesota has already had to issue a warning to parents about an increase in misogynistic, homophobic, and otherwise troubling language being used increasingly by their students. Meanwhile, signs with messages like “Women are Property” were seen at a victory rally at Texas State University.
What is the 4B Movement?
Since that election, online searches related to celibacy spiked dramatically. Hundreds of TikTok videos have been shared explaining how a sex strike could work and the historical context for this drastic measure. These content creators are encouraging young women across the country to embrace a sex strike - particularly against men who voted for President-Elect Trump, inventing slogans like “Don’t spread for red.”
These women are largely borrowing from another contemporary sex strike movement on the other side of the Pacific, the “4B Movement” in South Korea.
Beginning in about 2017, feminist activists in Korea, in reaction to a society that they viewed as inherently oppressive and misogynistic, began convening online and devised a remarkable response. The 4B movement encourages young women to avoid four activities (each beginning with B) as they try to actualize a new world for women. On the list? Bihon (marriage), Bichulsan (childbirth), Biyeonae (romance), and Bisekseu (sex).
Now, young American women, feeling that all other options have been exhausted, are trying to hit the men where it hurts and inspire some change by importing the 4B Movement to the States.
The History of Sex Strikes
And they are by no means the first women to withhold sex from men as a form of political protest. In fact, in the year 411 BC the famed Greek playwright Aristophanes authored a play in which a woman, Lysistrata, secretly gathers a group of women from warring nations across Greece and together they pledge to withhold sex from the men as a gambit to force the end of the Peloponnesian War. And it works!
Since then and throughout history, scores of women have engaged in sex strikes in hopes of spurring change. Indeed, just earlier this year a community of Orthodox Jewish women in New York organized a sex strike against their husbands until a local Rabbi granted one of their sisters a divorce.
But will a widespread sex strike work in America? In South Korea, 4B is a national discussion, and despite the government offering myriad financial incentives for childbirth, South Korea has the lowest birth rate in the world. But women say the strike won’t stop until conservative leadership is voted out of office and the patriarchy is disassembled. Will it have the same impact in the United States?
At least some of the 4B activists think so. “You push people far enough and they’re done,” explained 36-year-old Ashli Pollard, who joined 4B. “Women are choosing themselves in droves.”
373 comments
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Rev Morse
They are deciding what to do with their bodies. Good for them.
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Delayne Charles Smith
And if liberal women want to stop having sex because Donald Trump became president that's their prerogative it might even be a good thing.
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Michael Anton Goedeker
Thats not what my body, my choice is about and certainly not about 60 year old men deciding about a woman's body. Never was about a new president and never will be.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Okay, first of all, how ANYONE can even think about sex when the phrase "Donald Trump" has just been uttered is beyond me, that man is one of the most repulsive souls walking this planet right now. But second, they're not wanting to stop having sex just because they have to think about that creature being President, they're wanting to stop having sex because that creature emboldened a bunch of men to start thinking of women as property and trying to own them. Nobody wants to have sex with someone who thinks they own them, unless it's a specific kink.
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Delayne Charles Smith
Your body your choice. That is until you decide to share your body with someone else and mix sperm. Now you have created a life force. It's no longer just your choice anymore. Unless you're selfish and self-servant and disregard the Miracle of Life and have no heart for the life of your child.
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Emily Francis Harris
Life isn't a miracle. Miracles are a bit more rare and are never caused by sperm. At least, I have never heard, or read of that. Choosing a good life for yourself and your loved ones over a zygote isn't selfish. It's difficult to choose the few over the one, but that's what it takes sometimes.
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Michael Anton Goedeker
I can't believe I am even enterainen such an asinine statement.
The thinking along the lides of your Body, My Choice, and Biblical Principles
From a biblical standpoint:
Each person is accountable for their choices, meaning they must retain agency to make those choices. In a relationship, decisions should be made mutually, with respect, love, and understanding. Coercion or control by one partner over another undermines both individual accountability and the mutual submission modeled in Scripture. Removing someone’s ability to choose negates their accountability, which contradicts the biblical principle of free will and personal responsibility before God.
Ultimately, while partners share responsibilities and the consequences of their actions, the Bible supports the notion that each individual remains accountable for their own decisions, guided by love, respect, and the wisdom of God’s teachings.
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Martha Simmers
Really, Biden had Roe vs. Wade overturned stop blaming the wrong guy. Kamala took rights away from women, and you're blaming Trump? Biden raised Inflation your essentials not Trump during this democratic term we can't afford nothing. But come to this country illegally you can you can get free money overseas where he Blackmailing Ukraine sending money to useless wars.
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Michael Hunt
Roe vs. Wade was overturned by justices Trump put on the court. Trump has personally taken credit for overturning Roe vs. Wade. You clearly don't understand economics if you think inflation is all Biden's fault and Trump is going to magically fix it.
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Justin Mull
More people need to focus on trying to make their own lives better. Instead the general populous is hyper focused on finding something to make some grand stand against everytime some event catches the publics attention. If a stand must be taken then at least choose an action that will get the result you want. No sex because Trump got elected, i need this plans designer to draw me a map to to see how they think that'll work. If your life is so perfect that you feel you must change the world, please start smaller. Write a book that walks people towards having a perfect life as well.when you become to emotionally controlled by your side of an arguement, you end up hurting your own side more than helping, which this "call to arms" kind of does. I stay neautral, maintain balance, and take a deep breath when I see things happen that I know will make things worse because of peoples choices.
I apologize if anything i wrote offended you the reader, nothing is personal it is just my oppinion which is as likely to be wrong as anyone's.
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Delayne Charles Smith
We could just idly sit by and watch people influence others negatively. We could set idly behind watch a once faithful world totally turn away from the Creator. We could sit by watch children Disappear by the hundreds of thousands we could sit by and watch people just fade off until Oblivion while navigating through a fentanyl drug coma. But would that be what you believe would be the best? No if you don't speak out against what you know in your heart is no good it's the same thing as condoning it and facilitating it. Words may not be able to get the job done. But they bring about awareness and provoke thought within those who can do something about it. And I suppose when it becomes profitable enough for them or their heart weighs in on them heavily enough they will begin to act. But for some of us it's not about profit it's about what's right and what's wrong what's good and what's evil. How can you idly stand by and Watch the ignorant flow like a river coming down the mountain there's going to be no clean water left to drink in the fountain.
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David Hinckley
I find it amazing that people just sit on comment threads and spew their own beliefs back and forth, ad nauseum. Get off the computers and get some sun, people.
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Father Frederick
This thread has probably reached it's end. In the quest to prove a point, too many ridiculous and convoluted justifications are being made to support not just the original question, but a litany of complaints and social subjects.
If you feel a sex strike is necessary to prove your hate for someone's choice in an election, so be it. But if a husband, or boyfriend then walks out on you for your choice of protest, you have no right nor claim to their protest.
You can't engage an action without knowing there could be consequences. When those consequences arrive at your door, you can't say they are unjust when your own choice was equally malevolent.
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Danielle Elizabeth Ostach
I am all for a sex strike. All women should tell any man that voted for trump, "you are on the no sex list". It is right and sends a message in the way that can't be mistaken.
Women's right of consent and to say no and to control her body should not be trampled.
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Martha Simmers
Why? Are you that deluted in your warped mind that Trump is sexially molesting your mind. Roe vs Wade dropped by Biden Administration. Gender transformation added by Biden, gay pride month added by Biden/Harris. Men trampling down main street in sexual bondage clothing meanwhile demonstrating sex acts in front of kids. And you think Biden nor Harris cares about Natrual Women? Think again with hold sex they will cheat, go gay, go transgender, and where does that leave you bitter, still with no cause hating Trump. The Porn Star was paid by democrats to lie and whole feminine movement bought it hook line and sinker. No one is after real natrual women being brought back were losing our rights alright due to stupid mentality unstable men. Not Trump’s fault.
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JPrime
Martha, please look inward and drop the internalized misogyny. Roe v Wade was abolished by the loyalist “justices” put in place by 45, not Biden. Pride Month was started in 1972, as commemoration of the Stonewall riots. Not Biden or Harris. Do me a favour: WITHOUT mentioning a uterus or genitals, define for me “natural woman”. I am a woman, but have no uterus. So what does that make me? Please try seeing past your transphobia. Stormy Daniels had no reason to lie. In fact, it was more advantageous for her NOT to speak until required by the court to do so. 45 used campaign funds to shut her up, and THAT is why he’s a 34 time CONVICTED fraudster. So to that I say: actions, meet consequences. “No one is after natural (sic) women” - 45 and his cronies are after women, ALL women. We are nothing more than incubators, entertainment or servants to them. Certainly not people. Heaven forfend we should have thoughts, feelings or desires of our own! And, as head of the Republican Party, it IS his fault. He sets the example, and with what he exemplifies, I’m not surprised at anything that happens going forward. He is an adjudicated sexual assaulter, a fraudster, and a failed businessman desperately seeking to confirm his delusions of grandeur.
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William Christian Theile III
Nobody has a right to tell a woman what she can do with her body and what I’m about to say may offend but here goes: women have died because doctors won’t do abortions because they will lose their license! Women need to get together and file a law suite against politicians and courts for “conspiracy to commit murder!” No government, no court, no man, no politician has the right to stop abortions for women when it come to the life of the mother!
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Gary Leu
GO LADIES! You have my support. What's the plan to deal with the right wing wacko women?
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Lionheart
Would you be referring to those with a uterus? Just asking for a left wing wacko guy. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Klos Kris
Bottom line is, ANY man that believes that "Your body, My choice" Is a correct statement, of believes they can do what ever they want to their wives whenever they want, May be a christian, however you are also a rapist!!!! And need to be removed from common society. PROVE ME WRONG.
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Daniel Gray
Thanks for the laugh. We have one misinformed woman here who claims that a man can be replaced by plastic, seemingly forgetting that the plastic item she is speaking of is shaped like a mans anatomy. So she is still using a man no matter if its real or not. Sometimes I worry about people like this actually voting.
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Michael Hunt
Since when did dildos become men? Last I checked, there was no heart in there. And have you heard of vibrators (probably not)? They're often not shaped like the male anatomy. In other words, women have sexual alternatives to needing a man to give them pleasure.
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Daniel Gray
And I see you intentionally missed the part where I said "IF ITS REAL OR NOT" No wonder people are laughing at your attempts to spin things.
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Michael Hunt
Oh I caught that part, Daniel. Using a dildo isn't using a man because a dildo isn't a man, regardless of your real or not comment. Funny how you didn't have any response for vibrators. It's almost like you can't interact with the substance of the discussion. Instead you just try and insult me.
No one here, except maybe you, is laughing at me. On the contrary, many people here are laughing at you. Maybe take a look in the mirror sometime.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
I think that before women start publicly talking about their reactions to this stuff, they need to make sure they can defend themselves from what looks like inevitable violent physical backlash to their reactions. I'm worried that announcing their rebellion against misogynist standards is only putting a bullseye on them. That's what what's-his-face's viral threat shows us. Don't flaunt your strategy when it just aggravates predators, it gives them time to plan.
We should all remember that only a living rapist can testify against a victim in court. The law has been way too lax about rape for a very long time (for both male AND female rapists). It's time for potential targets (and the families of those targets!!) to take their safety into their own hands again, and if that means that a promising young athlete never gets to swim again because he attacked some girl...good. I am 100% confident that the world will only improve with every single removal of a rapist.
The tricky part will be that courts will likely become more lenient about male rapists and less lenient about lethal self defense. Despite that, I know a very large number of women who would happily go to prison with a rapist's blood on their hands, and an even larger number of men who would happily go to prison for protecting their wife, mother, sister, daughter, niece or any other family member from a rapist. It's shameful that women are having to decide to go 4B; we need to make rape an more terrifying prospect for the perpetrator than the target.
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Mark Bell
I’m not sure what the issue really is: it is impossible for President Trump to ban abortion, the Supreme Court has already made it clear it is not a Federal issue. So, explain to me what abortion has to do with women’s health? In regard to a sex strike, Great! Have at it, no sax, no abortion problem solved! As for me and my house, well we will abide by Scripture which by the way never mentions abortion, only killing children, babies to be exact. I’ll let you all figure that one out.
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JPrime
First, what is abortion? Abortion is the removal of pregnancy tissue, products of conception or the fetus and placenta (afterbirth) from the uterus. It doesnt matter if it’s voluntary or not. That’s what it means. Period.
What does abortion have to do with women’s health? It is an essential part of women’s health! No woman who wants her child will choose to terminate. The sad fact is that if something goes wrong (ectopic pregnancy, fetal malformation incompatible with life, carrying to term will kill the carrier, etc) then termination is the only option. If an incomplete spontaneous abortion occurs (that’s a miscarriage, btw), then a woman should be able to visit her doctor and have the rest of the fetal tissue removed before infection and sepsis sets in (otherwise, that’s EXACTLY what happens and she can die from it). If you speak of VOLUNTARY abortion, then respectfully, it’s none of your business what someone does with their body when it doesn’t involve you. If you don’t want an abortion, don’t have one. And to ban abortion altogether, no exceptions, does nothing but put women’s lives in danger. It’s not about “SaVe ThE bABiEs”, it’s about controlling women’s bodies. There are no laws on the books that control MEN’S bodies in such a fashion. Tre45on has already stacked the Supreme Court with loyalist conservative judges so they’ll do what he tells them. If that means finding a way to make a federal abortion ban stick, then that’s what they’ll do. Women no longer have the freedom of bodily autonomy when it comes to pregnancy. And in my opinion, that’s just WRONG.
Oh and look up Numbers 5:11-31, the Trial of the Bitter Waters. That is a SCRIPTURE describing the termination of a pregnancy. You’re welcome.
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William Christian Theile III
Men and women should file “conspiracy to commit murder” against any politician who outlawed abortion! How many women will die because THEY need an abortion to live?
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Lionheart
It looks as though the biblical god was also into post birth genocide, if the biblical flood is to be believed. Amazingly people actually worship it. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
If you're not in control of your own body, you're not a free American.
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Lionheart
Yayyy! Democrat left leaning females, (and I’m referring to those with a uterus just in case there are some men here thinking they are females), are suggesting banning procreation. I love that idea. It’s the Darwin theory in action. One species dies out and another one prospers and advances. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Theresa C. Marquess
...and the dinosaurs shall inherit the earth, thanks to technology.
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Warren Calvin Wall
Women wish to be equal. Women want special protections. That is not equality.
I simply ask, who protects women's rights? Who are women petitioning to have their rights protected?
I'll leave it at that. W
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Michael Hunt
Enlighten us; what "special protections" do women want that equates to inequality?
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Martin Norman Bates
Or if living in the US is so horrible, they could leave, give our land back, and Make Turtle Island great again. Aho🪶
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Thomas Edwin Peterson
Do what you must. There are plenty of supporters of President Trump. Get over yourself. There will be another election in 4 year's. I for one keep this fact in mind every election cycle. Many complaints regarding election process come from non-voters. Regards.
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Travis A. Lee
I am NOT going to debate anyone on this matter. I Will comment on what is being said ON SOCIAL MEDIA. At least Half of the Female Population IN the United States of America and its Territories were VERY much AFRAID the Night of and a few days AFTER the Election. IF you "men and few women" are simply dismissing the movement about to start YOU were NOT on Social Media seeing the Damned HEARTBREAK of the Women trying to find Solace in what they fear will become Reality from the "Handmaiden's Tale". YOU did not SEE the Confusion, the despair, the plain hopelessness these Women and no few Men felt. Then a few days later a KNOWN Racist, misogynist goes online and started screaming his micro pecker nonsense off about "Your Body, My Choice. Forever" WTLF??? THAT is what this Country has become. A Country where MEN BELVIEVE they OWN WOMEN. Disgusting behavior and attitude and thinking. It is abhorrent to anyone who actually has higher critical thinking mindset that such people can still exist. YOU dismissive people also did NOT see what was starting as WOMEN who OWNS THEIR OWN BODIES AND MINDS started thinking past the grief and sorrow that so many people would rather have DOMESTICALLY Cheaper groceries without KNOWING what the hell a Tariff is. Than to protect a Woman WHOM as one person basically tried to use the Bible to justify misogyny. WOMEN are to be protected, not used, not sold, not owned. They are under the Protection of their FATHER, until they MARRY then they are under the Protection of the HUSBAND. But, People seem to gloss over that and think "Protection, Ownership, same thing". IT is NOT the SAME. Then again, until Patriarchy became the norm, Matriarchy was the rule of the LANDS and it was different. Go look up the few Matriarchal Societies that STILL exist and see if THEY have any problems. They may have some, but it is from OUTSIDE INFLUENCES. And with that, I'm done.
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Bond Wright
Bravo, Travis. Rev. Bond Wright.
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Michael Anton Goedeker
Agreed, the amount of heartbreak and sense of betrayal of the men in women's lives is tangible and understandable. I for the life of me can't understand how any man in good conscience or as a real christian could even think or utter those words "my choice your body". In this perverted line of thinking, there is no valid Christian interpretation or alternative way of explaining that behavior or conduct with scripture or true Christian values or morals.
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Lion on the Beach
By the looks of 99% of them, they won't be missed in or out of bed. Thye hair cutting this definitely not a good look either.
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Shawn David Spencer
They are frustrated and have every right to be but they do not know the details behind the issue if this is their intended reaction. First of all Donald Trump and his success in the election has nothing to do with men in general but with dirty corrupt political members and basically the wicked hearted in this country that want to keep their life of opulence and sin. Those that voted for him didn't do it for anyone else but themselves. Second of all reacting this way is exactly what he wants, it's fuel for civil unrest and civil unrest will justify his reasons for radical change that will oppress the people even more and not his elite aristocrats.
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Louise Marie Harmon
YES!!!
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Theresa C. Marquess
Okay, Girls...Do you really want to withhold sex? If you do both you and your partner lose out. If I were you, I'd think twice about that. Just remember that there are always girls out there who would fill in for you. Is that what you'd want? Life is too short for all of this garbage...
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Reverend Paula Copp
Most men can be replaced with plastic…
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PiratePreacher
Yo. I think I love you. LOL. Rev. Anne
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Rev Ned
Too late! Shoulda done this BEFORE the Florida Orange Felon got elected.
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Mark Hannon
My thoughts exactly. It's like closing the "barn door" after the horse is splattering ketchup on the dining room walls. Or, leaves a Palm Beach barn.
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LustRust Belter
I fully endorse women living conservative lives of abstinence and reducing their birthrate. I hope it isn't as vapid and devoid of substance as the last time this was threatened. None of the people you have problems with even want sex from you all. This will turn out about as well as a possum that plays dead in the middle of the road to avoid ran over. I wish you all the best, but you may want to re-evaluate who you follow off a cliff if you can think more than a day or two into the future on this one. Think about it.
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Rev. Donut
Yeah, make sure and shave your head also. That'll show us.
Most women, especially the liberal lefty's that will do that, are not the type of women guys want anyway.
Men don't want some "activist" that wears a different hat every week and does not know which flag to wave this week because their "friend", teachers or "Professors" or Big Bird or the members of the Neighborhood Boxed Wine Club have not told them.
Most real Men won't care.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Do you represent “real men”? Hahahahaha! You’re so cute, Donut…
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
interesting movement!
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Donald R. Wooster
No big deal. Most guys would rather hang out with their buds, watch TV and drink beer anyway!! Also, when push comes to shove, there ARE alternatives!!
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Pastor Lyn
Dang man. You went there totally on your own. When women say that, you can rest assured that men made it possible to not need them for anything. Not even getting pregnant.
But think really hard about how that reads as a man saying that and all people know about things best not talked about,,,
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Ronaldo
I have been married for over 45 years to my lovely bride, and have been faithful that entire time. Of course, there will be some that don't believe the latter part of that statement "because all men cheat", but my bride does, and that is what matters to me. If she ever decided to deny sex because someone I don't even know personally got elected, I would tell her that, since it is her decision, then me finding sex elsewhere is not cheating any longer. Fortunately, we love each other, so that situation is not going to arise.
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Amber Fry
Not in the eyes of the law. That would still be cheating and she could file for divorce if it came to that. Marriage is a partnership. If you cant work together then you probably shouldn't be married.
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William Christian Theile III
It is a woman’s choice and nobody else has a right to tell her what she can decide. Doctors are afraid to do the procedure because the government will take their license. A women in Texas lost her life because of the anti abortion bill passed by men! Someone needs to stand up and file a law suite against politicians for “ conspiracy to commit murder” for the preventable deaths of women health!
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Amber Fry
Not just take their license but in many cases jail them as well. Women will soon be without medical help at all while pregnant because the OB/Gyn division of medicine is leaving states that threaten as much and fewer students are going into that field of study. This is beginning to threaten the health and life of both woman and the unborn more than allowing for the choice.
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Shane Michael Westerbur
I say good, they shouldn't breed. This amount of contempt for someone who holds very little power over them is absurd. They are only hurting themselves and the men that they care about. Their sex strike doesn't affect me in the slightest.
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Reverend Paula Copp
I’ll bet it doesn’t, Shane.
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Patricia Law
it is a question of whether or not one thinks of women as separate human beings or an extension of a man. Women are human with rights to live their lives as they wish regardless of men's desires!
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Michael Anton Goedeker
Of course Women are separate human beings. To criticize that God made Man and Woman separate would be a sin. Of course Women have rights and Men especially politicians have no moral right to force a Woman or Wife to do anything against their will.
But this is the thing 99,99% of people are missing. This is not a believe or not believe issue. Even when modern topics are not specifically listed in the Bible, the default is Love, Compassion, God judges not man. But no one follows this guidance, especially Pseudo Christian Nationalists. They will discuss and explain psudeo scripture and supposed facts the whole day.
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Julie Armstrong
Seriously, you aren't suppose to have sex before marriage anyway. If you believe it's OK, then you are sinning. I know that won't stop people, however abortion laws protect babies. I completely understand for certain reasons. Not for birth control. If a child can live outside of the body, it's MURDER. 24 weeks gestation a baby can live outside of the body, therefore it's murder. New York kill live OK babies upon delivery that's murder. Doctors push in the soft spot.
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Reverend Paula Copp
I don’t know where you got your information, Julie, but NO STATE IN THE COUNTRY allows babies to be born and then murdered.
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? Then why do we have a term called Partial Birth Abortions in Medicine its defined as this "A partial-birth abortion is a procedure where a living fetus is intentionally delivered vaginally until the majority of the fetus is outside the mother's body, and then killed. The procedure typically involves crushing the skull or removing the brain by suction"
Do you ever get tired of being completely and totally wrong paula?
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Partial-birth abortion has been banned by federal law since 2003, without exceptions for the mother's health, which was what caused controversy when it was passed. It has not been repealed and no states are able to override it, and are not doing so. The term exists because it already existed. Reverend Paul is completely and totally correct. No state in the country bucks the federal ban against PBA.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but you are wrong, it happens all the time according to the DOJ
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Since when? What is your source for this information? Because Google isn't finding anything new since 2004.
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Thomas P. Davis
The also in some states, as the child is in the process of being born, ram a scissors through the base of the skull. So, they are not found guilty of aborting a live birth. I have pictures in my extremely prolife wife's book of full-term living babies thrown into a stainless-steel sink to wiggle and squirm until they die from cold or lack of food. Plus, I have seen live videos of the same of nurses that finally could not take the killing anymore and defected to the other side. Or suction abortions where they go in and chop the baby up and suck the pieces out. What makes absolutely no sense to me is they consider it not human until it is born, but if the mother is on drugs, they arrest her for harming her unborn child, or you get into a car wreck with a pregnant woman and your arrested for a double homicide. How can the system say in one case it is not human and then in another it is.
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Michael Anton Goedeker
You make several assertions about sex, sin, abortion, and judgment, each with varying levels of support from the Bible.
- Sex Before Marriage
Supported by the Bible: The New Testament teaches that sexual relations are meant for marriage, referring to sexual immorality (often interpreted as sex outside marriage) as something to avoid. 1 Corinthians 6:18-20: Paul urges believers to flee from sexual immorality, reminding them that their bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 13:4: “Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.” Therefore, the statement about abstaining from sex before marriage aligns with these biblical principles.
- Abortion and Protection of Babies
Mixed Biblical Support: The Bible does not address abortion directly, but it does affirm the value of human life and God’s involvement in the creation process. Psalm 139:13-16 expresses that God is intimately involved in forming a person in the womb. Jeremiah 1:5 suggests that God knows and calls individuals even before they are born. While these verses emphasize the sacredness of life, the Bible does not specify laws or explicit timing around when life is legally or morally protected, nor does it comment on viability outside the womb.
- Abortion as Murder
Not Directly Addressed by the Bible: The Bible does not explicitly address abortion or define it as murder. Murder, as defined biblically, is the unjust taking of a life, and much of the debate about abortion centers on when personhood begins. Since the Bible doesn’t specify this timing, there isn’t a clear biblical foundation for defining abortion in any or all cases as murder. Additionally, the concept of viability (24 weeks, as noted in the comment) is a modern medical milestone, not something discussed or defined in scripture.
- Judgment Against Others
Significant Caution from the Bible: The New Testament provides clear guidance on judging others, cautioning against a judgmental attitude and urging believers to focus on personal faith and righteousness. Matthew 7:1-5: Jesus says, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged,” warning that the measure we use to judge others will be applied to us. He encourages believers to address their own flaws before condemning others. John 8:7: Jesus confronts those who accuse a woman of adultery, saying, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” This underscores mercy over condemnation. Romans 14:10-13: Paul tells Christians not to judge one another regarding personal convictions, explaining that each person is accountable to God, not to other believers, for their choices.
The Bible also emphasizes a compassionate, understanding attitude, especially on complex moral issues. For instance, while it upholds sexual purity and the sanctity of life, it also encourages Christians to respond with kindness and empathy rather than harsh judgment. The tone of the comment may seem judgmental, which is at odds with the New Testament's teachings on showing grace and leaving final judgment to God.
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Alice Kay Looney
Well, let's just see what your Bible has to say about when life begins, the value of an infant's life, and a recipe for abortion....
When does life begin?
Gen 2:7 "And the Lord...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." Job 33:4 "...the breath of the Almighty hath given me life." Eze 37:5-6 "Thus saith the Lord God...cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live... and put breath in you, and ye shall live...."What value is placed on children's lives in damage claims? Lev 27:6 "And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver...." EXO 21:22 "IF men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her... shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."
A biblical recipe for abortion? Num 5:17-28 "Then he shall take some holy water... and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water... Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, 'if no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband may... this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your... womb miscarries.' The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. He shall make the woman drink the bitter water.... If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry...."
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Thomas P. Davis
I would have included this as well. Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
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Pastor Lyn
It kills me every time I hear a woman talk about abortion.
Prolife is a lose/lose situation. Let's ignore the medical bit shall we? Let's hit on something else, because it is always ignored.
Let's talk about forced pregnancy through rape or incest. You people seem to think that a father who knocks up his 12 or 14 year old daughter is perfectly ok. It's ok to force her to carry that burden, that atrocity to term and deliver. Or a rape victim who has been forced to carry that burden and deliver it.
Why are you so ecstatic to keep a victim down and keep her a victim. Keep abusing her time after time, when in reality, you're only probirth. After that you couldn't care less. As a matter of fact, there are so many unwanted children in this world and 90% of you prolife people couldn't care less. You also seem to think it's ok for a woman to die giving birth. That this is somehow God's will. No, God ensured that intelligent people became doctors so that they could prevent this crap. It isn't the dark ages.
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Thomas P. Davis
Lyn, I struggled with this decades ago. Children of rape and incest verses the commandment Thou Shalt not kill. Prayed a long time for answers. Then one night I listened to a radio program where a Dr. interviewed mothers of rape. I learned a lot. First was even though those that promote abortion tend to inflate the pregnancy rate of that crime, it is less than 2%. Second that any woman that goes through an abortion suffers mentally for the rest of her life. Thirdly any woman that it raped also suffers the rest of her life. But if the woman that is raped and becomes pregnant decides to keep that child (It still half hers) much of the pain from both experiences diminishes. Then the doctor spoke to their children and asked if they were glad that mom kept them. They were. I am still not sure with the incest one for several reasons. One sometimes it is the fault of the mother, and since the birth would be prone to disability because the genes are two close, I am not sure about that situation.
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Steven Kaszab
A strategy placing women out front and personal with those who deny their full rights and expectations.
1.The first stage will go something like this folks. Women will unite together with a universal message that is clear and understandable even for men.
Equality is a Human Right - A Sexual Right - A Socio-Political Necessity
Through public marches, protests and mass gatherings women will voice their displeasure on how they have been treated in the past, the present and how they fear for themselves and generations to come. Fear that the future has little to offer the girl of the next generation. Mass education schemes will be devised and presented to all people in all nations, rich or poor, white or non white, to all genders alike.
2.The second stage will be initiated if men and their female allies do not respond to the above propaganda messages demanding equal rights, equal pay for similar like jobs performed, full educational opportunities no matter the nation, race or creed.
A Full Strike will be had in which all women will withhold their sexuality and affections from their partners, mostly men. The length of this strike and its nature in reality will depend upon the women's culture and political circumstance. Full denial maybe expressed in such a way as men will be denied the following....
No intimacy, no sexual contact with a woman Usual house work will be curtailed and fall upon men. The care of children will fall to their male parents and guardians
The LGBTQ Community will be asked to fully support this strike as partners in the struggle for Human and Women's Rights advocates.
- Should this strike be met with partner or legislative aggression a third stage will be initiated. Should men not respond favorably to the above mentioned stages of Women's struggle to be free of male dominance and control financially, economically, culturally, socially and politically this third extreme stage will be initiated.
All Women will take Religious Orders, pledging themselves to their deity through the vows of Poverty, Chastity and Obedience. This action will threaten the very future of humanity. Through the vow of chastity all women will be faithful to their deity by not having sex. The future of the human Race will be threatened by this action.
Could men be so ignorant and self centered as to not realize that by their historic actions women have been oppressed, sexually and financially used, denied of their constitutionally promised rights and established as second class citizens in most nations globally?
Women must take up the mantel offered them by Gandhi, Dr. King, Jesus and many other men who recognized the importance of womanhood. Women globally have only one ability, one tool of change available to them...to deny men. As men denied the rights they have to women, women can deny themselves to these same men.
Martin Luther King Jr once said "a right delayed is a right denied". Women have delayed their taking action against the historic, cultural manly oppression they have experienced since time immemorial. The world exists in division, poverty and extreme financial distress. Women can offer the motherly comfort and care a world like our needs. Men have screwed \ up our historic pathway towards peace and unity. Give women a chance.
Steven Kaszab Bradford, Ontario skaszab@yahoo.ca
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Reverend Paula Copp
Thank you brother Steven! Beautifully said!
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Teresa Freeman
Sex has been used as a weapon of destruction since Adam and Eve, when Satan manipulated temptation , wasn't ever meant for pleasure , but to create a physical family for Gods pleasure , so that in the third earth age God will reside here in earth with His family , all about choice and decernment, it's an individual conviction to be drawn to Christ ,no matter if it's sex ,or money , Anything that separates us from a relationship with God will be experiencing the second death , we are three parts , His image, but our choice, to comply
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Michael Anton Goedeker
Comment removed by user.
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JaZe
Where were the campaigns directed at men calling on them and encouraging them to be very VERY responsible with their sexual freedom? Ziltch. That load is always put on women! As for freedom ha! !
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Mrknowitall
Go ahead, dent sex to your gay lover, who the ' F ' cares...Deny sex to your spouse or boyfriend and he will move on, by by !
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Reverend Paula Copp
Ok, Knowitall, by all means go… as far away as you can, please.
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Daniel Gray
whats wrong Paula, did he hit a nerve?
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Michael Hunt
I believe that's part of the point... Furthermore, this isn't just denying sex to current male partners, it's abstaining from physical relationships with men in general.
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Klos Kris
Judge not, that ye be not judged. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? These so called christians who believe that a woman shouldn't have dominion over her own body are hypocrites. But then most christians have NEVER read the bible. Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it ‘a den of robbers. that is what he would do today with these people who call themselves "christian's". Listen to Eric Schwarts song on you tube, "Don't call yourself a christian."
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Gregory V. Bailey
Is real misandry a wise response to perceived misogyny? Does a physician who adheres to his or her Hippocratic Oath, which in part reads "Moreover, I will give no sort of medicine to any pregnant woman, with a view to destroy the child", actually hate women? To me, this rhetoric and exaggeration of truth rings of outright misanthropy.
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Tony Minish
Where were these genius’s when our government forced the whole country to take a ZLethal Vax?? These people definitely need Jesus Christ in their lives Love and Tolerance!!!
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Reverend Paula Copp
Hahahahaha! LMAO!
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Michael Hunt
If this vaccination was so lethal, why is every person I know who took the Covid vaccine still alive? Someone needs to work on their critical thinking skills.
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Veronica Deevers
It's not YOUR body. The baby has a body as well. The baby has its own DNA, its own fingerprints. It's not YOU. It's someone else and they have the right to life. Why do these women think they have the ability to decide who should live and who should die? I weep at the loss of these children. Who were they? What would they have become? What cures and inventions has the world lost out on because of their murders?
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Amber Fry
Yes, and that fetus draws off a woman's body to survive. sometimes that is too much for her body to take and survive. Things can go horribly wrong and often do. Her own health and life can be threatened just to support something she might not have wanted in the first place. That means the woman gets a choice of whether or not she will risk her own health and life to do so. Why is that such a hard thing for people to understand? Are women just not people worthy of making that kind of decision anymore?
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Imotox VH
When the baby is dying, its not an abortion that is needed. When the mother is dying they will take the baby out even before full gestation. The act of intentionally killing the baby is abortion.
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Michael Hunt
Take a look at what's happening in Texas. There's countless women who have died or wound up infertile because they were denied medical care over doctor's fears that they will be prosecuted for performing a medically necessary abortion, which is defined as the termination of a pregnancy by removal or expulsion of an embryo or fetus. It is not the intention that makes it abortion, it's simply the termination of pregnancy before birth.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Dearest Veronica, please understand that any organism which feeds on another organism is a parasite. Until the fetus is born and goes from fetus to viability, it is a parasite.
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Imotox VH
Not all humans have the right to life. The founder of planned parenthood was a woman whose ideology fueled Hitler. Abstinence will give cause for less unwanted pregnancy.
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Richard T. Warn
First of all Its not YOUR body , its GOD'S body. Secondly Trump did not ban Abortion the Supreme Court did.. He took it out of the hands of the Federal Government. And finally WHY are we using scripture to justify or deny the election of a political leader ? I think this author has some soul searching to do.
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Michael Anton Goedeker
Your reply clearly shows how you lack any real understanding of scripture or what Jesus and God actually said and meant. Religion is dangerous, being connected to God isn't. There is a big difference between actually believing in the teachings of Jesus and Christianity than hiding behind it and forcing a personal desire of what you want that doesn't exist in scripture. Secondly, As Christians and Men at that, it is our responsibility to love others as Jesus did. But this lesson also seems to be lost to you.
Your unhinged comments about assessing the quality of leaders is also a fact spelled out in the Bible, wether you want that or not, it is there and is fact.
I "search" my soul every day. Do you? I am fully in line with what Jesus taught. Are you? No man that follows Jesus could act in a demeaning way to any woman.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
For those women and men who are not Christians and have not given themselves to that god, no, it's not his body. That's an opt-in.
You are absolutely correct about not using Christian scripture to justify or deny election. Politics and religion need to stay in their own lanes.
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David Van Bourgondien
So, you want to “withhold sex” and you believe that will hurt us? Hmm, maybe we don’t care! Go ahead, be our guest. If you think mankind is that shallow in this day and age you may be in for a rude awakening. No sex for you either. No attention, no kindness, no respect because all of that has to be earned and your attitude and actions are simply telling us to leave you alone. So guess what, we will!
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Reverend Paula Copp
David, you do realize that you can be replaced by a piece of plastic, don’t you?
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Pastor Lyn
I did not mean to like your comment.
The majority of men already treat women this way. Why do men always become offended when a female states the truth.
I cannot be trusted with fragile masculinity. I was raised by males and was taught by them not to trust any male. When I bring more to the table than a lot of men now days and they start whining, I turn and walk away.
And don't tell me men want to protect their women. Because many women are not safe in your care. Marriage seems more like a slave contract than actual love.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
You can un-like a comment by clicking on it again.
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Patricia Sydney Solis
The inferior function, that which is repressed, such as sex, always has the most influence, says Freud. Sexual repression is why we have Republicans! Helpful to Capitalism to keep men under the thumb of hierarchy and patriarchy and expanding markets. The Barbie movie tells you everything you need to know about anima and animus, when Inanna took her descent to the underworld to reconnect with her lost sister Ereshkigal, Dumuzi took power and made every woman his arm candy. He's been terrified ever since. Why dogs run in packs and snow on Mt. Fuji was the latest on record. There's a dry spell out there in fertility and fecundity. Same thing happens in Salamanca, Spain every Easter. The prostitutes since medieval times have been sent across the river during Lent, then on Lunes de Aguas, the Monday after Easter Monday, they return and the waters of life flow! They celebrate with a pork pie! Want a ham job, guys? So damn the men, and let them eat cake instead until they appreciate some manna from heaven, their own Anima.
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Michael Anton Goedeker
My personal opinion about Trump is the following based on my belief and what the bible actually says.
Here are a few key biblical themes relevant to assessing leaders and their actions:
Humility and Pride: The Bible emphasizes humility and warns against pride and self-exaltation. For example: Proverbs 16:18: “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.” James 4:6: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”
The Bible warns that leaders who are proud and self-serving may face consequences, encouraging instead that leaders act with humility and service toward others.
Integrity and Honesty: The Bible frequently calls for truthfulness and integrity in word and deed, especially for leaders: Proverbs 11:3: “The integrity of the upright guides them, but the unfaithful are destroyed by their duplicity.” Ephesians 4:25: “Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.”
Honesty is considered a fundamental quality, and leaders are often judged by how truthful they are in their words and actions.
Justice and Compassion: Biblical teachings stress the importance of justice and compassion, especially for the marginalized: Micah 6:8: “What does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Proverbs 29:14: “If a king judges the poor with fairness, his throne will be established forever.”
Leaders are encouraged to act justly, to defend the rights of the poor and needy, and to avoid favoring the powerful at the expense of others.
Moral and Sexual Conduct: The Bible also places a high value on moral conduct and fidelity: 1 Corinthians 6:18-20: “Flee from sexual immorality… You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.” 1 Timothy 3:2 (regarding church leaders, though often applied more broadly): “Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach.”
While these verses are directed toward spiritual leaders, they emphasize qualities like self-control, respect, and moral integrity, which are encouraged for all leaders.
Using Power Responsibly: The Bible criticizes leaders who misuse their power for personal gain or who exploit their position: Matthew 20:25-28: Jesus teaches that leaders should not “lord it over” others but should serve them, saying, “The greatest among you will be your servant.” Isaiah 10:1-2 condemns leaders who “make unjust laws” and “rob the poor of their rights.”
Applying these biblical principles to any leader, including Trump, involves considering whether they demonstrate humility, integrity, justice, compassion, responsible use of power, and moral conduct. Based on these teachings, if a leader acts in ways that are contrary to these values—such as displaying pride, dishonesty, lack of compassion, or misuse of power—many biblical interpretations would view such behavior as falling short of the ethical standards upheld in scripture.
Based on these facts from scripture, no Christian could in good conscience vote for a leader like Trump because he does not uphold the moral qualities of a leader. There is no excuse and he is not sent by God in any capacity.
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Michael Anton Goedeker
Hey folks, the argument I heard that the "Bible" states that women must obey thier husbands blindly is BS and taken out of context. What it does however state that both must respect each other. So any comments from would be Christians to that effect should go back and reflect on what the bible actually says. Ephesians 5:22-25: “Wives, submit to your own husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church... Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.” This passage emphasizes mutual responsibilities: wives are encouraged to submit, and husbands are called to love sacrificially.
Colossians 3:18-19: “Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.”
To put this into context: In the New Testament, 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 discusses sexual relations within marriage:
"The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer."
This passage stresses the importance of mutual consent and highlights that neither spouse "owns" the other unilaterally; both are accountable to each other. The instruction to avoid deprivation, except by mutual agreement, emphasizes that both spouses should have a voice in matters of intimacy, reinforcing the need for communication and mutual respect.
The broader biblical themes of care, love, and honoring each other also provide support for prioritizing health and safety. Passages that instruct husbands to love their wives as they love themselves (Ephesians 5:28-29) underscore that a loving, respectful relationship should involve consideration of each partner’s well-being.
In light of these principles, many interpreters conclude that the spirit of marital unity and mutual care would support a woman’s (or man’s) discretion in refusing sexual relations when issues of safety, health, or well-being are at stake. The guiding principle of love and respect for one another's needs suggests that decisions about intimacy should honor the physical and emotional health of both spouses.
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Reverend Paula Copp
I would no more submit to a man than I would become an astrophysicist, Michael G. (I taught college English.)
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Pastor Lyn
I approve in general of all that you have said.
But due to many weird and odd parts of the Bible that make absolutely no sense and is constantly contradicting itself, the word submit according to the Bible actually means to give up all autonomy for the woman. It states women should be seen and not heard, not allowed to speak up in their holy places, etc. There is no equity between a husband and wife according to the men who wrote the Bible and edited it to conform to what they needed/wanted at the time.
Make no mistake here, women are not stupid. I know many women living in fear of their husbands, but they were raised to be so. Men who keep stuffing this drivel down womens throats and using God as a backdrop, excuse, etc are actually the problem.
So many men want their 1950's wife back. Why? Women were addicted to drugs and alcohol just to appear happy. Men abused them and many were killed. They had zero rights. It isn't a popular opinion, but Christian men should just admit they want to be Taliban.
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Rev. BH
LSH, very well said.
Sadly, trolls and flamers have found our site and bring their hatred (real or manufactured) to cause discord or simply get attention. Our moderators seem pretty lax about them. So it is up to the Good Guys and Gals to ignore them. Responding only encourages them. Might I suggest, as our friend Paula (and I, somewhere),use laughter. A simple 'ha ha!" or "you're a riot!" - something along those lines as a standard response? Logic, rebuttal and considered replies have no effect on these people.
Lastly, most religions at their core, teach The Golden Rule. The rotten part is those who use their "One True" manipulated religion as a weapon. And that is sadly, more and more people all over this world. I'm frightened by this growing trend.
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Pastor Lyn
It's very possible that the growing trend is in direct response to younger people and women leaving religion entirely. I know the majority of women are sick of how they are treated especially by their religion. Not to mention by men, by employers and complete strangers. A lot of Christian churches are reporting less attendance. All religions are being pressured to change or only have men. Cue the trolling, cue the backlash and cue the religions that support men above all and why aren't they controlling their females.
Meanwhile, the men are getting nasty because in reality, the great American illusion of, "if you work hard enough you'll prosper", is losing it's shine and validity. They are frustrated and angry. So many of them take it out on their wives and females in general and blame them. Why wouldn't they? According to the Bible Eve ate the apple first and led poor, stupid Adam down to hell. Shakes head I have no words to explain that bit of idiocy.
Anyway, religion(mostly due to a serious lack of tithing) and men are fighting back. 8 billion people on the planet, not enough jobs, jobs going to other countries or to robots. I can't blame them for their anger, but I can totally get angry for how they are acting because of it.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Women across the country need to do this.
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Daniel Gray
Go ahead. let them. And with all the ones having meltdowns refusing to have kids, while the regular women are having kids, in one generation the regular ones will clearly outnumber the ones who are having the meltdowns. In short they are admitting they are a dying breed and will soon be extinct
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Michael Hunt
You're telling on yourself by inferring that women participating in the 4B aren't regular.
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Daniel Gray
No I am stating fact. The ones whining and crying about not having kids are the ones that are allowing the other side to have more kids and sooner or later the side they are complaining about is going to outnumber them so much that the ones complaining will never get into power again. Now tell me, how does that make any sense?
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Pastor Lyn
I've been a Minister now for awhile. When I first joined in, there seemed to be a consensus of kindness. I'm assuming that if you're in here, you are indeed ordained.
To my point. I'm witnessing a breakdown amongst us. I'm seeing perfectly good (am assuming) Ministers, Pastors, whatever you found to go by, turning into trolls and finding it easier to hate instead of love. Arguments are happening, lines being drawn. Where does this end? When do a group of supposedly like minded humans find compassionate common ground? I myself am finding it very difficult not to judge the hateful ones. I am wondering why they bothered to become ordained. I have thoughts and opinions and none of them are charitable. I try so hard to believe in something greater than me. I have to fight myself daily to find a kindness to do for others who truly do not seem to want it. My biggest belief before becoming ordained so that I could help those nobody else believes in, was that, with 4 exceptions, all religions are rotten from the inside out and their followers show it in a blinding fashion. My 4 exceptions are Wiccan, Pagan, Druid and Satanism.
I've traveled the world, studied all religions, taken comparative religions in school, actually befriended many Jewish. Islamic and Christian people. I've watched horrid things happen in other countries in the name of God. When do you start holding yourself accountable for your behavior, rather than blame Jesus or God for your abhorrent behaviors? I'm keep wanting to walk away, but some very tiny part of me still has hope and damn if humans aren't trying to rob me of my decent humanity.
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Mitch
Kindness is definitely a good place to start, but I'm not convinced that it's ever easier to be kind. And that's especially so I'm our current environment, having religious and political wars going on internationally, and just off of an important election cycle in the US. Tensions are high, for sure. I might argue, given your reasons for becoming ordained, that this is exactly when you're most needed.
Having said that, I do tend to take sides. I didn't get ordained to support religious views or to preach peace, though I personally do support peace as a goal. I am neither religious, nor interested in studying religion. I got my ordaination in order to perform a marriage or two. Until we get religion out of government, it seems the only logical and available way to provide the loving service in an equitable way, outside of a courthouse.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I love that men think it’s their responsibility to make sure a woman are doing the right thing. Nick Fuentes’s comments are what we should be afraid of. Keeping women down, and it’s your body and my choice. That’s an extreme, but there are men out there that think this way than we know.
I keep seeing comment on this post that degrade women. We are supposed to be pastors from all sorts of denominations and beliefs. Still, some of us think it’s okay to insult women. That’s what needs to stop. If some women want to stage a peaceful protest against men who think they should carry a pregnancy under any circumstance, then let them.
It's now okay to say all the quiet parts out loud. What is that?
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Christopher W Patmore
Yes! Keep up the fight ladies. Do not let others tell you what you can & can't do with your body. Pretty soon it will be your right to vote. Then you will be treated like property again. Look at what is already happening to a lot of black & brown people. Keep fighting. Man or woman; if you care about civil rights at all, we should be together on this.
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Amber Fry
The sad thing is all this has happened before and sadly if we don't pull together soon it will come to a war as it did before. This is exactly why education is important regardless of how it makes people feel to learn it. Good, bad and ugly should be known and understood better than it has been of late or we are going to relive it over and over.
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David Bower
Yes you are right. Your body, your choice...to go to spend eternity in the lake of fire. Well done to you.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Hahahahaha! That’s funny!
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Thomas P. Davis
At least the eternity that people preach won't be the eternity they think bible preaches.
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Colleen McAllister
Lots of anger in these posts. Honestly I don't understand how a couple can exist with such opposite political opinions. My husband and l agreed on most everything. I would never withhold sex from him and certainly not on political grounds.
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Amber Fry
It can happen. Hard lines of respect have to be toed but apparently it's a rare thing. My husband and I have very different political opinions but we manage to make it work. We both strongly believe to each their own and as long as what you do isn't harming or taking from the other then have at it. We are just both considerate in most things and understanding if we overstep somewhere that might cause harm to the other. There are lines and as partners in our combined lives we navigate those lines as best we can.
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Pastor Lyn
I'm still trying to understand how the men equate women saying no to sex and being forced to have children whether or not they want to or whether it will kill them or not.
Those two things do not go hand in hand. Forcing women to have sex is rape. Forcing them to have babies or die having a nonviable child is turning the women into cattle.
I have to say, every time I hear or see a man putting women into a position of being worth less than cattle and doing because of your god? Really?
Forced male sterilization sounds more like common sense rather genocide.
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James Riggle-Johnson
At least male sterilization is reversable. I don’t see the men pushing that. Their body, their choice. It’s only women who they think cannot be rational in making choices about their body.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Bravo brother James! Thank you!
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arawngraalrd
Bisekseu wasn't even a word, Sixty years ago. The Koreans obviously didn't advertise their wares. Biyonae will only be denied by Democrats, who are not those attractive Republicans. Have you looked at the resume of our Second Lady Elect? Republican Women are beautiful, and obviously worth breeding. A few more Incel Democrats won't damage our race. Nick Fuentes sounds more like an incel, than a congresscritter.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Melania is a soft porn star; Jill Biden holds a Doctorate in Education. Melania has the class of a two-bit hooker; Jill Biden is a lady. Viva La differance!
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Daniel Gray
So explain then why they lost the last election as Jill was out on the stump for Kamala. Your view of reality does not match actual reality
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Michael Hunt
Paula is pointing out the vast difference between Melania and Jill Biden. What does that have to do with Harris losing the election?
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Daniel Gray
No paula is stating what her OPINION is and sadly for her it does not match reality
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Michael Hunt
So you're saying that Jill Biden doesn't have a doctorate in education?
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Daniel Gray
Nice try, since when did I say that? but then again thats all you have left since you have lost everything else.
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Michael Hunt
Are you claiming that it's Paula's opinion that Jill Biden has a doctorate and that Melania Trump is a soft porn star? Because both of those things are true statements...
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Daniel Gray
Sure, just as much as Paula's claims, but hey...keep on pushing your opinion and see how far that gets you
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John Ash McCormick
To the Greeks 2300 years ago it was a comic situation. See Lysistrata, Aristophanes. It is likely to be less funny this time around. But no more effective. This time it was started in S. Korea which already has a plunging birth rate that will virtually empty the country in 50 years.
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Amber Fry
So work to make life better. Birth rate has gone down due to the lack of wanting to bring children into a world that has become pretty awful of late. People fighting, wages lowering, no care for health or education to make any of it any better and a serious lack of care for one another enough to do anything about it. When life gets better, birth rates go up again. That's been seen throughout history in many countries, including our own.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
These misogynist comments on the line so far? Breeder talk. A breeder male is a breeder male, not a man, not a lover, not a partner. Just a breeder, whose potency begins to decrease not long after it's prime which is 17 or 18 years of age and then in decline. So "Where's the Beef?" Sorry, I thought it was pork.
Glad for this election, as I was for the one in '16. I'm not wont to quote christian stories, but, I believe "you will know them by their works" is every bit as valid as Maya Angelou's "When somebody shows you who they are, believe them."
And there you go. Gnaw on that and gnash a few things while you're at it.
Peace, tk
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Robin Anne Hannon
This does not make sense, and I am a woman. Why would you deny sex to your marriage partner? You are hurting the person you love due to the politics of the time. If you are single and want to remain so and not have sex, that is a choice. However, if you are married this is not the way to handle it. Without getting graphic sexual love can go beyond the obvious coitus if pregnancy is a fear.
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Reverend Paula Copp
For each action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It the action taken by men is vile (which in this case it is), then the reaction must be proportionate. I feel the 4B movement is proportionate.
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Daniel Gray
And you do know Paula yet again that the Husband can sue for divorce for alienation of affection.
Alienation of affection is a common law tort that has been abstained in every jurisdiction. Alienation of affection is a lawsuit where a spouse sues a their spouse and or a third party for damaging their marriage, usually resulting in divorce
Black Law 2024 edition
So I guess Paula that you are wrong on this as well.
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Reverend Paula Copp
As ever, Mr. Gray, your ignorance astounds me. Do you think that any judge is going to entertain that garbage? LMAO at you and your misogynistic ilk.
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Daniel Gray
So I guess your ignorance of the law makes you think you can come in here and lie through your teeth?
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James Riggle-Johnson
So today you are a lawyer? An expert at everything means an expert at nothing.
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Reverend Paula Copp
The phrase is: Jack of all trades, master of none. Your lack of knowledge is very humorous, or it would be if it weren’t quite so pathetic…
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Daniel Gray
No the phrase paula, is more intelligent then you are.
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Daniel Gray
No I am just citing the laws, no skin off my nose if you just found out that the law has destroyed you yet again.
You dont like this then check Adkins law or Blacks law library, its in both and is taught in basic law 101 at all law schools.
Enjoy wallowing in your ignorance.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Trust me… I’m not destroyed, and the only thing I’m wallowing on is the floor, laughing at your rude/crude/hateful commentary.
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Daniel Gray
sure...then why do you sound so nervous?
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James Riggle-Johnson
You really think a lot of yourself, Mr. G. There is nothing about you that makes me nervous. Your ramblings are amusing. Your conclusions are ridiculous. You live in a fantasy thinking of yourself as the smartest person in the room and yet you’re nothing more than a bully looking for attention. You’re confusing being nervous with simply being annoyed by your incessant rude and obnoxious behavior.
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Tanya Keller
So, let me get this straight...I'm supposed to deny MYSELF sex (by denying my husband sex) if my husband voted for Trump? I don't understand why denying myself something I want helps anything.
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Amber Fry
Only if your wants override you needs. You do you.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Nick Fuentes is a professional, negative -attention -seeking opportunist.
Provided the women don't take his gonads off to help rid the world of future perverts, being followed wherever he goes and being pelted with "little dick" condoms and those hard little tampons would be ... amusing.
The misogynist, racist and ethnic cleansing language out there has grown bolder the last few days. The "back in the kitchen" stuff, the "You are my ...." etc....
Ladies, women, womyn and trans women... prove your point. And if you are violated... lock him up as many times as needed until he shows some respect, or gets a dose of his own in the local justice center.
Sounds harsh I know, and I man no harm to anyone. Harsh times call for harsh measures when that thing has been let out of its prison....
Don't be afraid because mid-terms are only two years away!
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Johnny Mac
Good, while you’re at it visit the altar and get on your knees and repent of your sins ladies. Amen
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Reverend Paula Copp
I suppose you know what you can go do…
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Daniel Gray
we already know paula that you have done it.
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Rev. BH
Daniel, please say something kind and thoughtful occasionally. Your crude remarks towards the female sex are ignorant and reprehensible. A little decorum.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Daniel is a bully. When someone disagrees with him, he’ll try to beat them down and demean them until they relent to his madness. He just doesn’t realize people simply find him toxic and hateful. It does become exhausting at times.
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Rev. BH
JR-J, We all know he's a naughty little playground instigator with a trashy mouth. But I suspect he enjoys the attention.
Waiting anxiously for his reply!
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but I state fact, and if that bothers you then we know how to take your posts.
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Daniel Gray
Why? if the truth hurts then so be it. You cant teach a fool a lesson in being truthful if they are being coddled.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Daniel, you wouldn’t know the truth if it came up and bit you in the butt!
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Daniel Gray
talking about yourself yet again I see.
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Bond Wright
Daniel: When dishonest people have lost the argument, they resort to slander.
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Daniel Gray
sort of like what Paula does almost every time she posts.
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Father Frederick
Perhaps the husband should deny them the comforts of marriage? But the bigger concern, why would anyone want a partner who, (for some ridiculous knee-jerk reaction), denies sex in a relationship on the grounds of "I didn't get my way in an election." I don't care how much DJT triggers you. Introducing your insanity into a relationship would be grounds for a marital disconnection. And I would make that as quick and legal as possible. And just so I'm not attacked on political principles ... I did not vote for DJT. I voted Libertarian. So throw a copy of the Constitution at me if you're mad.
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Rev. BH
Father Frederick, your comment "Perhaps the husband should deny them the comforts of marriage?" should take any woman aback. What are these comforts only men can provide? Who are these needy ladies who are incapable of surviving without a man? I know quite a few strong, intelligent, hard-working women who are more than capable of taking care of themselves. One whose drunken husband got the boot, yet she still managed to raise two great kids alone.
I suspect some of these sex-denying women fear bleeding to death outside hospitals where doctors are in fear of helping them.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Hey, BH, This is a two-way street you know.
A man definitely does not need to be with a woman who's going to be using sex as a weapon. What weak man's going to put up with that?
First off hopefully you know the person well enough before you marry them or become their partner to not get involved with somebody like that. But if it's 5 or 10 years down the line and she's changed...as a MAN its time to pack your bags and go.
Either that or have your urologist remove your testicles and put them in a glass jar on the mantle where you can look at them, because they're obviously doing you no good on you.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Michael, there are far more strong women and many more weak men, apparently, than you can handle…
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Reverend Paula Copp
Fred, do you even HAVE a wife? I’ll wager that your intimate life is not what you wish it were.
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Father Frederick
Paula, yes I have a wife. We've been married happily for 43 years. Several children. Both of us very happy.
It's too bad you didn't wager. I would have been pleased to take your money and donate it to our homeless shelter. Opportunities like that are rare, but sometimes we make the wrong predictions.
Here's the problem, Paula, you're assuming that by scratching a line in the sand against your partner that they can can not have intimate relationships with you, somehow shows your contempt and disapproval for Trump. In reality, it's poor choice of character and ethics and punishing someone for the most obscure reason. I would never place my marriage or relationship by using politicians and elections as the criteria for intimate relationship. It's lunacy.
The fact that DJT won an election, should not have anything to do with relationships. It should not cause outrage on social media, nor should it display anger and angst in your community and friends. The election was simply a vote of the people. Simple as that.
If it makes you feel better, I hoped Chase would have won. But a Libertarian candidate in a race with a Democrat and Republican is like trying to run a three-legged horse at the horse track.
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Reverend Paula Copp
It has nothing to do with the election. Those who voted for the orange menace have shown their moral depravity, and most women don’t want to be with morally depraved people.
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Thomas P. Davis
If the data is correct, it wasn't by a landslide. " Harris had the advantage among women, winning 53% to Trump’s 46%," It seems this election has made the devil very happy on his ability to divide and conquer. First, I hear that any woman that votes for him has no brains (46%) now I hear that they are morally depraved. It must be the reason that so many men go overseas to find their mates.
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Reverend Paula Copp
If you go, do us all a favor and stay there, Mr. Davis. And please take your ilk with you.
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Thomas P. Davis
Paula, Barbara Wallace many years ago, did a program on all the males going overseas to obtain their wives. I know about a dozen people that have done the same thing. When I was on a mission trip to the Philippians years ago after my wife of 36 passed. They were trying to provide me with a new one. I told them I was not interested. Although I have friends that Philippines for their wives and are very satisfied. I just wonder does it also hold true for women. Do they go overseas as well to look for good husbands? I am 70 and marriage in this country is much different than it was when I was 26. I have heard from one male friend that men go overseas not looking for a wife but rather looking for a slave.
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Father Frederick
Thomas, while I can not deny that some look for slaves, (not calling them that), there is about 13% of the population which seeks a foreign bride. I do guest minister work at one church which has been sponsoring "brides" to American men. About 6 out of 10 women want to leave Ukraine because they have lost their boyfriend or husband in the war, and sadly a few have lost family.
However, there is an interesting dynamic in the Ukrainian bride aspect that I never realized until one gentleman explained why he sought overseas marriage. There is no denying that in many situations American women are their own enemy in the dating scene. And the "I'm not going to have sex because I'm mad at politics" has done more to drive men to women overseas. My stats are out of date, but I believe in September, the number of marriages have topped 230 for 2024. The one thing I hear over and over in this discussion is the justification for the action because of party, DJT, a perception that their significant other MUST believe as they do, or the my way or the highway. I say, good. Keep it up, ladies. You're just driving good family men to women who appreciate a good relationship and family.
Cue the "hate" replies.
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Rev. MichaelRS
No, what the problem is; who are they going to sex strike against?
If they have a partner they're probably partners because they already agree on those type of things politically. So what would be the point of punishing those guys?
What do they expect is going to happen that those guys will then try to badger their or co-workers into voting for candidates whose main issue is pro-choice?
Can you imagine a co-worker or a friend coming to you and saying, "Dude you need to vote for Harris or this pro-choice person running for congress on my wife won't have sex with me."
I would be like, "Brother, that's YOUR problem."
LMAO
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Paula, not having sexual relations with your spouse in every state of the union is called "alienation of affection" and is grounds for a divorce with no spousal support. You really need to stop trying to force your fake ideals into almost every conversation.
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Reverend Paula Copp
If my spouse were to try that garbage with me and said I was guilty of that, I’d laugh in their face and tell them to sue me before the divorce. You, sir, are the one with fake ideals, and you always give me a chuckle. Thanks for the laughs.
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Daniel Gray
and they could and would win, all you have to do to make you lose is set off your attitude and its game over for you
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Thomas P. Davis
In the Catholic Church, it is also the only reason for divorce.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Who actually gives a flying …. about the parade of pedophiles masquerading as men of god? If you care, good for you! Keep your god to yourself. Those of us who know better laugh at your medieval nonsense.
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Thomas P. Davis
Paula if you are speaking to me, for one I am no longer Catholic, since 1983. For two I was just telling everyone their belief. My first wife left me, and the church did not give us a divorce. I could have asked for one years before because she did not want children. The church only gives annulments. They explained it this way. There was never a legal binding marriage because one of us lied on the altar when saying our vows.
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Daniel Gray
very strange Paula since you were trying to use the pope as a source for your argument.
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Rev. BH
Thomas, on divorce:
"The Catholic Church doesn't recognize divorce and considers marriage a lifelong commitment. If a couple's marriage breaks down, they must either get an annulment or separate."
Daniel, on divorce:
"Alienation of affection is a legal concept that allows a person to sue a third party for actions that they believe destroyed the love and affection in their marriage. It's a common law tort that's been abolished in many jurisdictions, but is still recognized in a few states, including North Carolina."
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Thomas P. Davis
BH, they must have changed the rules. I will need to check, since at one time the partners refusal to have offspring was the only time they permitted divorce. That is why the Tribunal would only give me an annulment.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry BH, My sister in Brownsville Texas just told me about her neighbor that sued for divorce making that claim and she won. Guess you dont know as much as you think you do
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Rev. BH
Oh, I do, Daniel.
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James Riggle-Johnson
What does this have to do with the election? This is aimed at the people in state government who voted against abortion, and those at the federal level who would vote for a federal ban. No body argues that tRump won the election. Almost half the country did not vote for him. Will he be president for all or just the far right? That is yet to be seen.
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Amber Fry
Almost half the voters. You have to keep in mind there was a fair chunk who didn't vote and a fair chunk who cannot vote for whatever reason. That would make it somewhere around a third, not almost half.
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Rev. BH
The Sex Strike should have been before the election not after. Like Lysistrata, to stop the war, not protest it belatedly. As in: "You bro's vote for that creep, stay out of my bed."
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Rev. MichaelRS
How would a sex strike from leftist Banshees affect anything election-wise?
Who are you going to punish, leftest soy boys that already agree with you politically? LMAO
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James Riggle-Johnson
Michael, why do you keep referring to leftist banshees? It’s not just the far left worried about this. It’s also the middle and some of the right. I don’t think any of this would have changed the election results, but you shouldn’t just be complaining about the far-left.
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Daniel Gray
they tried this in 2016 and it didnt work then and it wont work now.
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Amber Fry
Not as far as I recall. It was mentioned as a tactic iceland women used that worked but the US is much bigger population wise with a much larger range of different ideals and beliefs.
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Daniel Gray
Columbia School of Journalism clearly shows that some women did in fact call for a national sex strike after the 2016 elections. Didnt work then and isnt going to work now as why threaten to do this when most men wouldnt have taken these women up on this if they gave it away
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Diane Minna LaFave
You have misunderstood about the abortion issue. According to our Constitution the Supreme Court doesn't have that kind of jurisdiction . That's why it couldn't .The issue is for each state to make rules/laws about abortion. See what your State rules are. Going after Trump is a waste of your time .
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James Riggle-Johnson
They are going after him because he claims it was him that overturned Roe v Wade. That ruling had been the standard for 50 years. Each justice tRump nominated said they would never overturn something that had precedence. Of course, they lied and returned the power back to the states. Was that right? The ruling was made, and we should have stuck to it. There are other things they are expecting to overturn that would be a mistake as well. Thomas wants to overturn the ruling which made it legal for him and his wife to be married. Should that have been left up to the states?
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Amber Fry
Trump was the one who placed the judges who overturned it. The judges were not following precedence or their own oath to leave precedence alone. Go back and review why Roe was instated in the first place. The reasoning was sound and these judges are right wing zealots pushing to make religion the law of the land. We didn't fight a war of independence from that sort of nonsense to let us all fall back into it again 250 years later because a minority decided to rule the majority in that direction.
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He Who Breathes
Thank God that those women that are striking are just those same women I would never want to have sex with anyway.
It is also very nice that they are taking themselves out of the gene pool. (very Darwinian...)
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Reverend Paula Copp
HWB, I guess you’re going to be an incel then…
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Rev. MichaelRS
So unless one is attracted to and wanting to have sex with leftist Banshees, they are destined to be incels? LMAO
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Reverend Paula Copp
No, you’re just upset that more and more women don’t want to be with right wing nut jobs…
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Rev. MichaelRS
Well, since I do not live on the Isle of Lesbos, over my lifetime I have not noticed a shortage of beautiful, strong conservative women willing to have sex with strong conservative men.
That scenario is only in a leftist fantasy world.
And obviously the issue is not that important to most of the country since the Donald won not only a substantial Electoral College victory but also a substantial popular vote victory.
So as usual the left is making noise far louder than their actual number. Kind of like a cat that humps uo its back and puffs up its fur to try to appear larger than it is.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Only trumper husbands need to be concerned…
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Rev. MichaelRS
You better check the stats again. More women overall across all demographics went for Trump this time than in 2020.
And it's not going to affect Trumper husbands because they're probably not with women that are bent like that. This is nothing more than a very empty threat
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Reverend Paula Copp
Goes quite well with the number of thoughts in your head, especially about viability and women’s reproductive care, Michael
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Rev. BH
And vice versa, HWB.
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Najah P Tamargo
Najah Tamargo-USA
GO 4B!!!!! I'm IN!!!!
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Anisahoni
A sex strike only focuses on one area of the problem and little insecure men will continue to turn to pornography and prostitution to satisfy themselves. Most men are incredibly ignorant about our bodies and in banning abortions fail to comprehend the dangers of ectopic preganancies, miscarriages and in utero fetal deaths which require abortions to avoid sepsis which kills women. These unfortunate events occur in every state and in every country. Misogyny has been a driving force behind most religious traditions, with the exception of Judaism.The National Council of Jewish Women has been active in raising awareness about Jewish Law and women. Misogyny is magnified by tiny little boys who never grew up to be men and who are threatened by women. In fact, they forget they were birthed from a women'a body. It's sad that half of the country voted for an adjudicated rapist and misogynist.
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James Riggle-Johnson
You’re absolutely right. It’s made worse by men like Nick Fuentes making comments like “your body, my choice” and “we will never have a woman for president.” Or my favorite, “hey B*tch, we control your bodies, guys win again.” It’s sickening.
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Bond Wright
Political analysis:The good thing is he is only in a fringe group. Comments like that galvanize the women's civil right movement.
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Rev. MichaelRS
That is a great idea. While they may be pro-choice we can't rely on them actually having an abortion.
Therefore them not having sex is the only way to ensure that they're crazy genes are not passed on.
Meanwhile, pro-life conservative women will continue to have sex and increase the population of that demographic. Win-win.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
I have yet to meet anyone who is “pro-life.” They are FORCED-BIRTH.
Wait until your ten year old daughter is raped by a member of the clergy and gets pregnant. Your tune will change.
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Ronaldo
I am pro-life, but have never entertained the idea that a woman must get pregnant so she can be forced to give birth. I am also a scientist who believes as most biologists do that life begins at conception or shortly thereafter, not at birth or after. Those who believe that a fetus is neither human nor alive until birth should be challenged to explain how the birth canal can take a random collection of cells, much like a cancer or a parasite, and turn it into a fully-functioning living human being within two minutes. If no one can scientifically explain how that works, then those who believe such should be considered pro-murder by those who don't. Simple and scientific.
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Amber Fry
Um, no. That isn't what most biologists say. Take a course. There is a point of viability around 22-24 weeks in. Before that the organs are not developed enough to support life in any circumstance. Until then it is a potential for life.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Oh, Christ be merciful! Another man spouting his credentials, claiming to know what people in his field of study know, so of course, by virtue of being a man he knows all about abortion. What a load of hogwash! Ronaldo, if you believe that life begins at conception, then you will no doubt embrace child support beginning at conception. Pay up!
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Theresa C. Marquess
Excellent comment, Ronaldo. There is an abundance of birth control methods available to prevent conception. A big problem is that all too many young people are using abortion as a method of birth control. No woman should think that she should be 'forced to give birth.' If she feels that way then the choice that she made when she did not use birth control is what is at fault.
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Reverend Paula Copp
You want sex? You provide the protection… or the child support…
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Bond Wright
A solution to end abortion: There ought to be mandatory classes in the last grade of elementary school teaching boys to pull aside from intercourse and NEVER ejaculate into their partner until they are ready to take on parenthood.This would stop all problem pregnancies, stop laying all the injuries on girls and women because of his mismanaged ejaculation, promote very responsible parenthood and eliminate most abortions. It would put a stop to this agonizing struggle between "pro-life" and "pro-choice" for all of us. It would put a stop to a fetus growing and being terminated by terribly stressed women. We could then focus on other things that need to be addressed--like climate change. Men are 100% responsible for all pregnancies--wanted or not. And, we need to stop laying the whole load on her because of his irresponsible and ignorant conduct. educate boys and men now.
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Thomas P. Davis
Bond, an added note. there are a lot of pregnancies caused because the boy does pull aside as you call it. However, those little sperms can still swim up to be where they were intended to be. Another added note is the use of condoms, their success rate is only 25%. Also, not sure what you are saying, but men(animals) are only responsible 100% of the time if it is rape. Any other time it takes two to tangle and they are both responsible. We need to educate (if they will listen) both. How often have a heard a girl hooked on her feelings say, well if I give him what he wants now, I will have him for life.
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Bond Wright
Mr. Davis. The argument isn't: it's human and we can prove it therefore you MUST carry it. No.It is a much much higher consciousness issue: The issue is "why do men get carte blanch to "deposit" out of his selfishness or ignorance and cause an impossible pregnancy? Why is there a deafening silence on this fact? Men are responsible for ALL pregnancies. An impossible pregnancy is existentially /spiritually tragic for the woman AND the fetus AND the entire human. race. Why aren't there biology/sex classes in every junior high school teaching boys to pull aside? Why aren't there ample services/financial resources available for women to enable them to carry and rear a child until age 18? Including collective responsibility for the woman and the fetus? Instead of dumping it ALL on her. Who gets to decide for the class of women? You? (with your science argument)? The Pope? The president of the Baptist Church? The Mormon Church? Trump? Any joker who wormed himself into the Senate or House of Reps? The irresponsible sperm donor? Abusive spouse? Other self-hating women? The rapist? Did I leave anyone out? (Probably). Make abortion illegal will not stop it. It will go underground--like it always has.And, many women have died (been killed) and will continue to do so. Some women will be forced to carry the fetus to term into a life with a "mother" who is not able to handle it. (oh yippie--so good for our specie). And causing untold suffering. That lingers on and on for generations. Maybe one positive thing is unwanted male babies make darn psychopathic good soldiers and (they are so crazy made) and the females make a new population of sex workers, servants, etc. traumatized and easy to manipulate. It's not a pretty picture. we can do better. We must MUST do better. Every child deserves support, love, respect, joyful, opportunity and all else to produce a healthy democratic human being. Want to stop the wars? Produce human beings who won't show up for one. Abortion will always happen--legal or not--until we get it straight. No, the issue is not just the fetus is scientifically proven to be a human being. It's MUCH bigger than that. Thank you. Rev. Bond Wright. PS: THANK YOU ULC for allowing us to have this blog.
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Thomas P. Davis
Mr. Bond can you explain this statement of yours? "And cause an impossible pregnancy?" As I said before women unless it is rape are also responsible for all pregnancies. It takes both the egg and the sperm. Your other comment "Why aren't there biology/sex classes in every junior high school teaching boys to pull aside?" Shouldn't both sexes be taught? From the time I was in 7th grade in a catholic school, the girls would tease the boys with what they had. They even teased the other girls who had not reached puberty yet. This statement is confusing too. "Why aren't there ample services/financial resources available for women to enable them to carry and rear a child until age 18? One it is not the governments business to aid the needy, The Government was set up on two things. Protect our borders from foreign invasion and separation of church and state. The last I look 80% of all tax dollars go to people that do not work for it. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTIY OF THE CHURCH to take care of the people. As I said before I know women living with the same man and popping out babies right and left and collecting a check from the government every month for each of those kids. The sole purpose of not marrying the father is that they will lose that money. My late wife work in the cafeteria for the school system for the government sponsored food program. She would have 7 kids come through the line for their free lunch, all had a different father, but all had the same mother. I worked with a woman here with three children, she divorced him, and he disappeared and for 14 years no support. He found a good job started to pay double and triple back support payments. The court found out he was back and garnisheed his wages and his employer fired him, and those payments stopped. Some pro-life clinics offer all those services, but those pregnant girls only hear the rhetoric from the prochoice people. Where are the parents that claim they love this child? Quit calling it a fetus too. The bible says "Lev_17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood" God says He knew you before you were born. If a pregnant woman gets arrested for doing drugs, she will be arrested for endangering the LIFE of the unborn CHILD. If some kills her in an auto accident they will be charged with a double homicide. Talk to the children that are thankful that their mothers chose to keep them. If the infant was a female where was HER rights? Where is the father's rights. The father that wanted to marry the girl and wanted to raise the child. Your comment from above. "we can do better. We must do better." It will never happen, it can't happen. WHY because of sin in the world. Keep thinking that one sex has priority over the other and I will continue to laugh. Tell me that they are both sinners with problems and I will agree. The devil is NO Respecter of persons, he enjoys causing division, I was a supervisor in a department of 83 women. What I saw and heard would devastate me for life. Thank God that the respect that I have for women comes from the bible and not this world. It was the same with my childhood. I thank God every day for growing up in an ALL-black neighborhood hood. Plus, my late wife and I did 6 or 7 mission trips to Africa. If I went by what is propagated by society and ignored what the bible teaches, I would think much differently. Yes, abortion WILL always happen. It is a sin issue, and man's answers will always fail. Our only hope is for the lord return and from what the bible teaches that will be soon. God Bless
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Daniel Gray
Try telling your mother that line and see how far it gets you.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Hahahahaha! Bless your itty-bitty heart…
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Daniel Gray
whats wrong paula? hit a nerve did I
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Amber Fry
You are kidding, right? Most mothers I know would be thrilled if their son was so considerate as to leave it to her since she's the one that has to go through the pains and risks.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Why do you assume that I am against abortion in all circumstances?
I'm very much pro-choice in the first trimester.
But I want tougher restrictions for the 2nd trimester. I don't know off the top of my head what those restrictions would be. I'd have to consider them one by one.
I'm very much against it at any point in the 3rd trimester as simply a matter of choice.
I also believe the law in that regard should in any way be ambiguous and if a baby is aborted in the third trimester, and for whatever reason comes out alive, I believe life-saving measure should be taken.
Meanwhile, those nutty women withholding sex affect me not in the least. In fact, if there is a man who is crazy enough to be with them in the first place the only one they would be punishing is him... probably somebody who agrees with them over the issue. That is why it's a dumb protest
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James Riggle-Johnson
Michael, most abortion laws state it’s only legal up to the point of viability. Anything after that has to be examined closely and is only allowed to save the mother’s life.
Also, the article is talking about holding a sex strike with men who voted for tRump. If you have a husband that didn’t vote for him, I guess it’s okay.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Well the simple answer to that is to divorce or otherwise get out of the relationship with those shrews.
Or maybe they should stay with them and get what they deserve because they have horrible taste in women.
Additionally they could have their Urology surgeon remove their testicles and put them on a glass jar on the mantle, because they're doing no good attached to the so-called men
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Reverend Paula Copp
Michael, Michael, Michael… just because you can’t get a date…
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Rev. MichaelRS
My God. You are so ridiculous.
And you're right. I can't get a date bit for two reasons and two reasons only. (1) I don't want to because I have a girlfriend. (2) if I was out on a date with somebody else said girlfriend would be upset and no longer be my girlfriend.
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Reverend Paula Copp
I will indulge your ignorance no further, Michael, but I wish you the best.
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Reverend Paula Copp
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Reverend Paula Copp
Hahahahaha! That’s funny!
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Rev. MichaelRS
Do you feel the same way when it comes to mandating vaccines?
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Reverend Paula Copp
Absolutely, vaccines need to be mandated for the good of society. If my kids get sick because you were an irresponsible parent and didn’t vaccinate your child, we’re going to have a problem.
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Rev. MichaelRS
So, no "My body, my choice" when it comes to vaccines, but that's a valid argument for abortion?
Especially when half of what's growing there is essence from a man... who apparently is not supposed to have any say in the matter at all?
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Reverend Paula Copp
Mr. IRS, you are comparing apples to oranges. I won’t indulge your purposeful obfuscation of the facts.
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Rev. MichaelRS
It's M.R.S.
But don't feel bad. A lot of people often mistake the L at the end of Michael as an I.
But I'm not obscuring anything. Either individuals have bodily autonomy period or they don't.
And even though I'm pro-choice for the first trimester there is something to be said for the argument that what is in there is ANOTHER person's BODY that is developing.
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Reverend Paula Copp
You seem to forget that just as an egg is not a chicken, a zygote is not a person. Personhood begins when you have a birth certificate, not before. That “other person” you reference is merely a parasite feeding off a host until it’s born. Vaccines protect the vast majority of global populations from myriad diseases, thus vaccines make everyone safer. Abortions affect the woman, not the sperm donor…
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Rev. MichaelRS
Why are you talking zygotes? It could be, but I've never particularly heard of a woman who suspects she's pregnant at the zygote stage or the following blastocyst stage.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but most women don't suspect they're pregnant until a little over 4 weeks.
But by that time it has become an embryo. Not a chicken embryo or a goat embryo or a gorilla embryo. It is a human embryo.
And we know that after 28 weeks, 7 months, babies have a high chance of surviving if there is some situation where they need to be delivered through cesarean or so forth.
But in your world, if not born and issued a birth certificate anytime between 28 to 40 weeks, the baby is still a THING with which the woman can do with as she wills... including having an abortion by having the doctor go in there and cut the THING up and remove it piece by piece. Is that right?
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Amber Fry
Yes, but you are forgetting a couple things here. A woman is not a machine. She is also a person. That embryo still draws off her to survive. Her health and wellbeing take a hit to carry it. If it takes too much, she will die and so will it. Also if it stops growing and festers, it is no longer viable and has a very high chance of causing her death in the process. This is why it should be her choice. Her body and life is at risk to carry it so it should always be up to her.
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Rev. MichaelRS
But we're not talking about; If something goes wrong. At least I'm not.
What I'm talking about is, all other things being equal, purely a matter of choice.
And MYVposition, which you probably did not see in another comment, is it I am pro-choice up through the first trimester.
After that I want very sharp restrictions for the 2nd trimester and, generally, speaking I want complete prohibition in the 3rd trimester.
Again when it comes to simply a matter of choice.
My position on the 1st trimester things puts me at odds with a number of my conservative friends.
But I understand their arguments and I don't try to rationalize my position against them. I simply say that is how I feel about it personally.
And the 1st time trimester is plenty of time for a woman to decide. In fact if I were a woman I'm pretty sure I would have the decision >75% made one way or the other, given my particular circumstances at the time, before I even started having sex with somebody.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Your ignorance of the process of abortion, and when it could be done is astounding. The only reason any woman has a late term abortion is because of her health or the health of the fetus. If a fetus can survive at seven months at become an actual baby, then the mother would not be allowed an abortion.
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Rev. MichaelRS
You are the one that is ignorant.
Alaska,
Colorado,
D.C.,
New Hampshire,
New Jersey.
New Mexico,
Oregon,
Vermont,
all have NO TERM LIMITS on abortion as a matter of choice.
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Reverend Paula Copp
You really don’t have a clue; you just talk crap out of your butt. If you truly believe that women can get abortions on demand, then you haven’t learned any human anatomy or physiology, and there’s no help for you. May your god give you peace.
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Rev. MichaelRS
In the places where abortion is legal are you telling me that a woman cannot walk in in the first trimester and say, "Hey I want an abortion" and they won't just do it on demand?
And if late term abortions don't or cannot happen as a matter of choice as I have said, then what's wrong with putting that in the law to spell out that can't be done?
Because right now in those states that I mentioned it CAN theoretically happen.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but wrong, even the most left wing states like California and NY and Ill have restrictions on abortion. NO state has allowed abortions right up to the date of birth
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Bond Wright
MichaelRS: You have no credentials on this subject. Why? You are male. You repeatedly have shown you have NO understanding of the issue. Another example: and, similarly, you are white. You have no credentials to speak on the black experience. So be quiet. Period.
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Rev. MichaelRS
@Bond Wright
That sounds pretty racist and misandristic to me.
And I'm pretty sure my opinion and support on the subject would be VERY welcome if I was a leftist that agreed with you.
Such as if I was a certain "knucklehead" that just lost the race for the vice presidency.
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Bond Wright
Rev. MichaelRS; You have completely x-ed out that the WOMAN is a person. (Like human males) with a heart, a soul, with needs, with an existential and DNA imperative to that must be allowed for her healthy and wholesome mental state and for the well being of the race. She is not just a mindless uterus that should be taken over by others, to be used as some kind of receptacle for anything including reproduction against her will. Women are not brood cows for utilization or your pleasure. Women are sovereign. When women have full soverenity, democracy flourishes and every citizen in it: human males, animals, the planet,etc. All must have the status of sovereignty. If you don't think this, your consciousness needs work.
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Daniel Gray
Dont worry about Paula, she makes no sense on her best days. In every state of the union if a pregnant woman is in an accident and the baby dies, there are laws on the books that are called INFANTICIDE meaning the causing of a death of a child. And the laws make no difference if its inside the mother or outside. And under the US Law you CANNOT be charged with the killing of something that does not exist, so the law clearly states that Paula, as is her usual route, is wrong yet again.
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Thomas P. Davis
Paula, it is interesting that you say that. " Is merely a parasite feeding off a host until it’s born." I went to an abortion rally years ago and they had the same sediment. That you could take the life of that child until it was able to take care of itself. In your words all five of my children continued to be a parasite for many months after they were born. They were unable to feed themselves or change the diapers, etc. In some ways there are many full-grown children and adults that are still parasites.
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Reverend Paula Copp
The same “sediment”? LMAO! Go back to school and maybe learn something! Tom. Dude. I said that they are parasites until they are born. Please take some reading comprehension classes.
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Thomas P. Davis
Paula, I read what you wrote and was just commenting on " That “other person” you reference is merely a parasite feeding off a host until it’s born." All my children were breast fed until almost two years old. It was many months after they were born that we started them on whole foods. So, in theory they were still parasites living off of mom. Then I compared it to an abortion rally I went to at a local college where they said it was acceptable to take the life of a child until it became independent. Yikes that is scary since my mom and dad basically took care of me until I graduated and moved away from home.
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Echo
It's my body, my choice. Otherwise your a rapist and criminal of sexual assault. PERIOD!
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Cindi
You are right, it is your choice not to have children. That doesn't make us sexual assaulters. (that made no sense!) You can sterilize yourself and make it permanent. Look around! There is another baby boom that you can't stop. However, if all younger gen-z and gen alpha, male and female decide to sterilize that will snuff out the entire human life on the planet. Glad I won't be around long enough!
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Reverend Paula Copp
Cindi, We have 8.2 Billion people on our planet. I think we can safely sterilize a few generations before we run out of people…
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Daniel Gray
And just WHO do you think you are to make that call or that decision? Your post clearly shows you have a mental problem of wanting to be in control of everything at all times.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Mr. Gray, you weren’t involved in the conversation and your comments are not welcome. When you remind yourself that you are absolutely no better than anyone else, then maybe I will have an inclination to listen to you. Who am I to make what decision? You are insinuating that I made some sort of decision that affected you. I made no indication that I was deciding anything; I stated a fact and added my opinion. You, sir, (and I use that term very loosely) are, as usual, putting words in other people’s mouths. Just stop!
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Klos Kris
gREY, You are the problem, You are the reason, I am a man, I know I have NO SAY IN WHAT A WOMAN DOES WITH HER BODY!!!! PERIOD!!!! If men treated women with the respect of the heart, and not the church, The world would be a better place. I practice community, We all support each other, Men aren't better then women, and vise versa, (that means reversing the previous statement.). And to quote you, (quote means to directly restate what another states verbatim) "Your post clearly shows you have a mental problem of wanting to be in control of everything at all times."
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but no, when you lie you are going to be called on it like it or not.
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Daniel Gray
Amusing paula, you constantly inject yourself into others conversations and then go off on a tizzy when its done to you. What are you? Three years old?
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Reverend Paula Copp
Gray, the one who has problems mentally is you. Your mouth leaks egotistical garbage, and you make others laugh at your puerile antics. I’m always ready to laugh at your posts, which makes you a pathetic figure.
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Daniel Gray
why are you talking about yourself like that, that is not healthy
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James Riggle-Johnson
Cindi, who is talking about sterilization? They are talking about cutting off their bodies for men’s enjoyment. And Echo is right. If a husband forces himself on his wife without her permission that is rape.
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Rev Nolan
Once the Republicans have complete control, because women have become chattel property of their husbands, it won’t be considered rape anymore. Look at who’s in the Supreme Court now. It’s not rape “anymore.”
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Thomas P. Davis
Not sure where you get your statistics, but the other statistics say that the population rate is below what is needed to keep the country viable. The only exception is the Arab world that produces an average of 7 per family.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Google “global population” and you’ll see that it stands at 8.2 Billion…
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Thomas P. Davis
I was speaking of the USA not the world. They have been saying for decades that we need not fear the attacks of the moslem world. With their birthrate at 7 and ours at I think 1.4, they just need to wait a little longer and they will be the majority in the USA. on another note, I have no problem with my moslem brothers. The same decrease is happening in the black community since the abortionists targeted them years ago.
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Reverend Paula Copp
I was speaking about global population…
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Thomas P. Davis
Ok, I had looked it up yesterday instead of going by my aging memory, I wasn't too far off, if the data is good. The U.S. fertility rate hit a record low in 2020 — just as it did in 2019, and 2018. Although the COVID-19 pandemic seems to have accelerated this decline, the drop has been underway for years. The total fertility rate — the average number of children a woman is expected to have over her lifetime — now sits at 1.64 children per woman in the U.S. Not only is this the lowest rate recorded since the government began tracking these stats in the 1930s, but it’s well below the so-called “replacement-level fertility” of about 2.1. I had read not too long ago that it is actually the non-citizens that are keeping our numbers up.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Once again, I was talking about GLOBAL POPULATION. JHRC!
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Thomas P. Davis
Yes, I know you were, I just thought I would share those figures with you, that I could not find before.
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Daniel Gray
fine, then since its your choice for you to have children, then why would you go ask for the government to pay you for having them?
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Reverend Paula Copp
Who’s asking the government to pay someone to have children? What a silly statement!
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Thomas P. Davis
I am not sure how to understand your statement. I have a neighbor who is living with the father of her children (not married to him), and she enjoys the checks that she receives every month from us taxpayers to raise those children. The mailman says he delivers many of those checks to others as well.
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Daniel Gray
Guess you never heard of welfare then did you Paula?
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Thomas P. Davis
Biblically not so. A husband and wife can only abstain from intimacy if they both agree, unless the devil get a foothold.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
LOL! No woman needs a “man’s” permission to allow his penis into her vagina. I don’t care what your “bible” says.
Good for the women who will Bobbitt any man who dares defile her without her permission.
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Daniel Gray
and you do know that Lorena spent 10 years in prison for doing this to her husband and she freely admitted that she messed up in trial and didnt read her chart correctly and was afraid of getting pregnant. If you dont want to get pregnant or have relations with a man, then stop using the items that take the batteries or are shaped like a portion of a mans anatomy. Help yourself out.
Oh and to the women who are married, refusing to have sex with your husband is under us law called "alienation of affection" and is able to be used to get a divorce with no spousal support. SO you really need to be careful and think about this for a long time.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Mr. Gray, your statements continue to give me chuckles every time you post. Your pomposity is hysterical and the fact that you expect others to take you seriously is funnier yet. Thanks for the laughs.
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Bond Wright
Daniel: Yea. Women really do need to think about it. Marriage is dangerous to your health. Better to never marry and just find someone to love--without the legally binding sexist laws.
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Daniel Gray
Amazing how you and paula still refuse to see reality
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David Hinckley
The Google machine says: "Currently, the tort of alienation of affection is available in six states: Hawaii, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Dakota, and Utah." "Alienation of affection" appears to be directed at a third-party, not a spouse. I don't think that counts as "us law"
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Daniel Gray
And the US DOJ clearly says Google is wrong in this case. I mean if they were correct then WHY is the DOJ going after them to break them up like they did with Ma Bell?
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Thomas P. Davis
Elizabeth, You sound just like my retired pastor friend, and you can believe whatever you like, but in the United States if you force sex on your partner, it is called rape. So, you apparently are for the abuse of women. As for me, I will stick with the bible.
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Klos Kris
I will guarantee that no one can Stick with the bible without HATE, No one can believe in the bible and not contradict yourself. You clearly have a board in your own eye if you think that. Bitter and sweet water can not flow from the same faucet,
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Thomas P. Davis
I may have a board in my eye, sanctification is the work of a lifetime. The bible is a history book and includes the good with the bad. If you follow the bible stories on how we should live, not the bible stories on how we shouldn't live, it has all to do about love.
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Klos Kris
The bible has NO historical value by any means, It is the most hateful piece of literature in the history of the world, You can not show any part of the bible actually happened, there is NO evidence, And if you believe the bible in it entirety, Then you are ______________________, I say that in this manner to respect the rules of this forum. There is nothing of love in the bible. Being joyful in Dashing infants against the stones is NOT LOVE!!! Slavery is not love, incest is not love, rape is not love.
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Klos Kris
The bible has NO historical value by any means, It is the most hateful piece of literature in the history of the world, You can not show any part of the bible actually happened, there is NO evidence, And if you believe the bible in it entirety, Then you are ______________________, I say that in this manner to respect the rules of this forum. There is nothing of love in the bible. Being joyful in Dashing infants against the stones is NOT LOVE!!! Slavery is not love, incest is not love, rape is not love.
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Thomas P. Davis
The bible reports all the history, not just the good. It shows what happens when man follows his own ideals verses God's. It does not condone the bad. Jesus says love your neighbor as God loves you. You could not follow His advice and do what you are suggesting the bible condones. There is plenty of evidence, one just needs to look for it. How else would God send His son to this earth, leave His divinity behind and take on humanity. Leave His place in heaven, to be persecuted by man's sinful nature, just so we could go where He came from. All the time with the possibility of losing the battle with satan and being stuck here forever. Read Daniel and historians will tell you that it is spot on as far as history goes. There is even a book called " A thousand Shall Fall" tells the story of a German soldier under Hitler that explain to his commander that Hitler would not win the war, using the book of Daniel.
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Klos Kris
People who believe in the way are suffering from cognitive dissonance, along with a huge side of Dunning Kruger. In no way can you prove any historical value of the bible. Prove me wrong
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Thomas P. Davis
Secular history will verify biblical history. Just ask Suddeim Husein. He tried to rebuild Babylon, even though the bible said it will never be rebuilt. Just ask the secular archeologist who follow what the Christians tell them where to dig for these cities the bible talks about. They find them and the verify that they and the people existed.
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Klos Kris
There is ZERO secular evidence for the bible. husein was a psychopath. There are no real archeologist who agree with you. Just because someone says they are an expert, doesn't make them one. Give me names and evidence or you have NOTHING.
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Thomas P. Davis
I guess I should have saved my old archeology magazines with that information, but I didn't. But that is Ok because as they say a man convinced his will is of the same opinion still.
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Reverend Paula Copp
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Reverend Paula Copp
Watch me. I will deny sex without hesitation for any reason. Touch me without my permission, and I will make sure that the bible’s definition of hell is nothing compared to mine.
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Klos Kris
You do realize that your bible does not say what you think it says, you clearly never studied it. The contradictions in the bible are countless, I can spend a week in genesis alone, And if you claim to be a textualist, then you, yourself need to be stoned to death. You dont follow the bible, but you will force women to follow it??? You are a hypocrite, Please contact me if you ever want proof of your misinterpretation
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Benny A Dean
I want that proof.
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Thomas P. Davis
How am I forcing a woman to follow it? There are no contradictions in the bible other than those that man put there.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Because men wrote the tome! Misogynistic men trying to control women for the last 2 thousand years. What better way to do that than to start a new male dominated, soul sucking religion? Davis, get a clue…
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Thomas P. Davis
Paula, men inspired by the holy Ghost. Yes, it is paternal and not maternal, why, I have no idea. I will ask God when I see Him, hopefully. God intended for man and woman to be side by side, not one behind the other. I never even like it when I would go for a walk with my wife, and she fell behind me. I would immediately slow up. Society is probably the farthest thing from being male dominated. As far as it starting it, that seems highly improbable as well. Since there are 8 billion people in world, and most don't believe in the book to begin with and many of those in the 10/40 window cannot read or it is not in their language.
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James Riggle-Johnson
They claim they were inspired by the holy Ghost, but were they? We have men today who are supposedly saying the holy ghost tells them to eliminate people. I think it’s more likely they imagine it’s their creator speaking while it’s the subconscious, or they are just lying.
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Thomas P. Davis
Just because someone claims something, does not mean they are to be believed, if it does not agree with the written word of God, it is not true. He does not change. We need to verify everything, whether read, or heard or seen with the written word. There two spiritual entities out there speaking to us through our frontal lobe. One good and one bad. We need a standard to determine which to follow. Many frontal lobes are damaged at the time some people make those decisions.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Davis, believe what you need to in order to keep yourself happy. Blessings .
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Klos Kris
Do you mean the holy ghost delusion, Because thats all it is.
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Klos Kris
There are thousands of contradictions in the bible. Man wrote the bible, not gOD. thats your first contradiction.
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Pastor Lyn
Remind me where you are from again? I never want to within 100 miles of your ignorance.
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Daniel Gray
Good as just reading your posts makes a persons IQ drop 20 points.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Daniel, you continue to be hateful and rude in your comments. Is that because you know they have no basis in reality? What is with you? Wait, I forgot. You're my bully buddy.
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Daniel Gray
no stating fact
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Bond Wright
When dishonest people have lost the argument--they resort to slander.
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James Riggle-Johnson
That's exactly what you do.
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Michael Hunt
Projecting once again I see, Daniel.
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Daniel Gray
no stating the fact about people with strange ideas and then whine when they cant force them on others, sound familiar? Like all your posts.
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Michael Hunt
Yep. It sounds exactly like you.
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Daniel Gray
projecting fact and reality, why thank you
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Reverend Paula Copp
Do you think that means ANYTHING, Mr. Davis? Do you think for one minute that any woman (other than those trad wives) cares what your god thinks about denying sex? The bible is as misogynistic as a few of the men on here. The fact is, Mr. Davis, that forcing the woman you’re married to, to have sex is rape, and a woman can say no at any time for any reason. Otherwise, you’ll be on the wrong side of human law.
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Thomas P. Davis
Paula, the bible is far from being misogynistic. It seems as if we are talking on two different topics. Nowhere did I say that forcing sex on someone was acceptable. Here is my quote from above "Biblically not so. A husband and wife can only abstain from intimacy if they both agree, unless the devil get a foothold." I still stand by it. It makes excellent sense. If they don't agree together, than the one who can't control the carnal desires may just go elsewhere to fulfill their lust of the flesh.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Thomas, remember that the 10 commandments is a list of things you aren’t supposed to do. I seem to recall that one of those commandments reads thou shalt not commit adultery. Apparently, you feel that particular commandment doesn’t apply to men. As for the bibble, it was written by men, for men at the expense of women and other minorities. Inspired by god, my butt. It’s more like they were high on something…
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Thomas P. Davis
Paula, I need to go back to school and learn to write properly. I never said adultery did not apply to men. Abraham was wrong to father a child with Sarah's handmaid, even though she told him to do it. Same goes for Jacob listening to his wife and fathering children from all of her handmaids. Let's not leave off the kings and all their wives and concubines. I even quoted from Christ where He said just the thought of it was adultery, nowhere, does the bible condone it. Christ lifted up many women in the bible despite the anger of the men around them.
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Klos Kris
The bible is completely misogynistic, man came first, women caused sin, men can sell their daughters, women are to be silent. and hundreds more. Why can a man have more then 1 wife, but a wife can't have more then 1 husband??? Weak men blame "the devil" for their shortcomings. The bible not only condones adultery but commands it. Looks like the men who wrote it, needed an excuse to take advantage of the situation. Doesn't the bible say that before you rape the captured women, you need to wait 30 days so they can get over the slaughter of their family????
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Thomas P. Davis
You read a different bible than me. I do not see anywhere in my bible that God says that man can sell their daughters, that God says man can have more than one wife, YES, weak men and women like to place the blame on everything but themselves."Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, what is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. " Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. As for the women keeping silent in the church, that was not a command of God, that was a rule they had back then. I did not live back then, but I have been told that the men would sit on one side of the church, and the women would sit on the other side. When the women had questions, they would yell across to their husbands for the answers which would make for an interesting service.
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Reverend Paula Copp
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Robert Gagnon
Tom, according to your biblical theory both must agree to abstain, correct? So if the man does not want to get pegged, but the woman insists, he must submit?
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Thomas P. Davis
Robert, you are correct. Although why if there is real love in the relationship that would happen, I don't know. Here is what the bible says not my theory. Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 1Co 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 1Co 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
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Robert Gagnon
Two people really in love don't need the rules spelled out for them. I think your quotation was more concerned with avoiding fornication.
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Thomas P. Davis
Robert, yes, to your comment but I believe the rest of the verse covers marriage as well. It talks about "let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." then it goes on to say " Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time," then " and come together again" It finishes with "that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency." some ones inability to self-restraint.
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Klos Kris
You clearly aren't a minister, are you a christian????? Read the red letters
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Thomas P. Davis
If you are referring to me. I will answer as a carnal Christian in the words my mother raised me with. " You sound a little like the pot calling the kettle black" I say carnal because a Christians words are always to be edifying.
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Klos Kris
a Christians words are always to be edifying???? Like my brother who as a christian, raped my disabled sister, impregnating her, then demanding that he was forgiven after he confessed his sin to god??? All christians lie, All the time. They have to just so they can justify the bible. The bible has thousands of contradictions, millions of act of cruelty, rape, slavery. For people to support the bible, they have to completely lose all humanity. As it has been said, a good man will do good, a bad man will do bad, but to do true evil, that takes religion.
Or to put it another way. “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”― Steven Weinberg
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Robert Gagnon
Religion is not evil, people are. There is always someone ready to manipulate peoples beliefs to their purpose. Beliefs can be political, moral or religious.
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Thomas P. Davis
There are many people that call themselves Christian. Just like going to McDonalds doesn't make you a hamburger, going to church doesn't make you a Christian. As they say if you are going to talk the talk, then you should be walking it as well. Only eight were saved at the flood and it will not be much different at the end of the world. Narrow is the gate, and few chose it.
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Klos Kris
And NO christian can walk the walk without suffering societal consequences, You can't sell your daughter, You can't stone someone to death if they work on the Sabbath. I bet you, right now are sinning, if you are wearing tighty whities, 2 types of thread. If only 8 people were saved after the flood, It would be seen in DNA testing, It's not. The flood can not happen and did not happen.
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Thomas P. Davis
Christ said pick up your cross. He never said that the life of a Christian was going to be easy. Look at the stories in the bible. Look at Foxes book of the Martyrs. Look at all the persecuted Christians in the world. Why would I want to sell my daughter? Mankind gets the bible, and its laws all mixed up. They put Moses's laws, and the ceremonial laws, and the health laws on the same level as God's moral laws. Some of those laws of man were done away with after the cross. The Flood did happen, the earth is a testimony to it. All the ancient cultures have stories of it.
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Klos Kris
Christians are persecuted due to their actions. Not because they are christians, sodom and gomorrah wasnt about being gay, it was about rape. Look at how christians treat gay people. WWJD... Tell me you believe the crusades, was a good thing. Bombing planned parenthood clinics. hitler was a christian, The belt buckles he had his soldiers wear said "Gott mit uns und wir mit ihm" translation, “God is with us and we with him!”. You can be a christian, but you cant expect respect from the people you hurt. the christian religion deserves NO respect. The christians support the orange baboon.
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Thomas P. Davis
From the statistics, more non-Christians supported your orange baboon. Read what is happening in the Moslem world. These people as fast as they turn Christian, they come under attack. Sure, there were crusades and sure there was the bombing of clinics, If it was as you wrote it would have been the non-Christians. I don't believe that a Christian would bomb something they preach against. I do however believe a pro-choice person would bomb an abortion clinic, to falsely claim the other side did it. A true Christian can't hurt intentionally. Just because you claim the name, a good fairy doesn't wave a wand over you and poof you are Christian, just as JESUS said in the bible, by their fruits, you will know them. A good tree can only bear good fruit.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Thomas, you have yet to say anything edifying in any of your posts. If you are indeed a minister, please start practicing what you preach. Otherwise, you are merely the “clanging cymbals” spoken of in 1Cor. 13:1-13.
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Thomas P. Davis
Paula, I would be interested in seeing where I demeaned any one on these posts. I certainly have been, and I have seen many others as well. There was one point when I quit reading them for all the hate speech.
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Nicholas J Page
It's up to the ladies personally I don't think it will work.Women have a right to deny sex.
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Rev Nolan
For now, women have a choice, but once the Trump Administration resumes, women are inherently property by virtue of Republicans being in complete power.
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Bond Wright
YES Nolan. That is their agenda. thanks for your comment.
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Parson Golden
Good, I support this 100%. It is a woman’s right to consent or not consent at any time.
Republicans have passed draconian laws that are in fact killing women and increasing the infant mortality rate.
They do so under the guise of being “pro life” they do nothing to sustain life.
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Robert Gagnon
The concept of cutting off sex to men that don't agree with women's basic rights sounds like a great idea. But the women that voted this in will not participate. Abortion rights didn't pass in every state. That means even in the privacy of a voting booth many women agree with the anti abortion movement. So exactly who's getting cut off here? I believe in women's rights, but cut me off for some political or any reason and I will go elsewhere for sex. Did anyone ever notice that women like sex too? If they think guys will wait 4 years while they teach them a lesson, they hooked up with a weak man or hold the purse strings. As far as women's alphabet friends, they can go hang out with them until their daily freak session makes em leave, they ain't abstaining for any reason. Nice concept, with little affect.
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Amber Fry
Maybe. There are a number of people who didn't think that things would be pushed that far. Some thought the guide rails in the constitution would be enforced to keep things in check but they seem to be failing this time. Some are literally panicking over the changes coming down the line now. More women are starting to realize they are no longer as protected and are getting on board. As time goes on I think it will start being a bigger and bigger deal. TIme will tell.
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Sadie Tan
Diddy or didn’t he?
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Michele Marie Miles
It's not about what you think it is about. It is about body autonomy for women and consent. It doesn't matter if they agree or disagree with abortion rights. It doesn't matter if they have rainbow friends. It is about women taking up for themselves.
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Robert Gagnon
Any women voting against abortion rights is in direct conflict with your autonomy. Rainbow friends are irrelevant. I'd enjoy watching the misogynists get cut off, but they select passive women on purpose, so they will never feel the affects of 4B. I ask again, who's getting taught a lesson?
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Daniel Gray
Oh PUH-LEAZE. The Government already tells you what you can and cant do with your body. You want to go overseas? Ok you WILL get shots or you wont go. You want to send your kids to a public school, ok they WILL get shots or they wont be allowed to attend. Covid? they made it mandatory that you get the jab or you could have lost your job or be locked into you home like they did in China. You go into the military and you WILL get shots no matter if you like it or not. And there are thousands of other ways the Government controls your body.
Now some would claim that well this is for the public good, ok then you are now saying that in cases like this you dont mind if the government controls your body? Cant have it both ways here
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Reverend Paula Copp
Mr. Gray, you are a true misogynist in every sense of the world, and you totally miss the point. A woman has the right to deny sex to anyone. You, sir, have no rights whatsoever what women do with their bodies. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that being a woman equates being in the military, although how you ascertained that from the article is unclear. In any case, unless you are married, no woman has to deal with you, for which I think most women are very grateful.
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Daniel Gray
spin it all you want Paula, the fact of the matter is that neither women NOR men have control over their bodies as The Government can always step in and demand and force you to do things with and to your bodies that you may not want to do. Simple fact.
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Reverend Paula Copp
I don’t think it’s all that serious, but you are free too believe what you wish…
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Daniel Gray
Just pointing out that someone other then you has control over your body, guess you still have not figured that out.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Apples and oranges. "Or you won't go", "or they won't be allowed to attend", "or you could have lost your job" and "you join the military" all involve choices, neither of which (except the voluntary military signup) involve being punished by death, permanent disability, or being partnered with a rapist. Mandatory vaccines are also not a measure imposed by someone else's religious beliefs; they are to prevent the spread of disease throughout communities. Abortion bans are a direct imposition of someone's religious beliefs onto another person's body that can directly result in the death of that person, among other horrific results. There is nothing similar between killing a woman because of church-sanctioned legislation, and offending a conspiracy theorist to prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths.
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Edward Lee Scott
Perhaps trying to show a little respect for other viewpoints would help us actually come to an agreement. Too often we see our opposition as being nefarious in some way. I truly believe that the average American voter wants to do the "morally right thing." One side sees it as a women's rights issue, and one sees it as an issue of what we allow our medical professionals/corporations to do. With that being said, I feel that the first thing that needs to be agreed upon is when do we consider life to be valuable. I personally do not want anyone to suffer, but if the baby can survive outside of the womb, then I don't understand termination. I also feel that a deeper respect for life would see less need for this service. As a "black" man, I also think it's imperative that we not forget the origin story of Planned Parenthood.
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Parson Golden
Actually yes we can have it “both ways”.
Women have rights, republican policies are killing women and increasing infant mortality.
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William Robert Wall
Democrat Party policies on abortion have had more effect on infant mortality than any Republican could ever have.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
William, the unborn aren't infants. So, you're incorrect.
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Reverend Paula Copp
What a joke, Wall! It’s plain that you have no clue about what you speak. Google it; you may learn something new…
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Daniel Gray
take your own advice...oh wait you wont as it will destroy the point you are trying and failing to make
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Reverend Paula Copp
😆. Too funny, Mr. Gray!
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Daniel Gray
so fact is now funny to you?
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Michael Howard Schrader
You do understand that going overseas means going to a different country, and if they require vaccines to enter, you better get your vaccines. Since the military can be deployed in other countries, many of which have vaccine requirements, then you better get your shots or get discharged. There are other people whose children attend public schools who don't want their child infected, so get vaccinated. Your rights end when you infringe on other people's rights. As for abortion, since a birth certificate is issued upon birth, and with it all rights and privileges, until that certificate is issued, you have no rights.
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Daniel Gray
Exactly, and its the Government that is telling you what to do with your body. And I gave a few other examples, so this "my body my choice" is bull and hokem but I guess it sounds good to the left.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Hahahahahaha! Daniel, your humor is precious! Bless your heart…
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Patricia Sydney Solis
Comment removed by user.
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Daniel Gray
So you consider fact and reality a form of humor? Good to know as now we know how to take the hokum you are spewing
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Reverend Paula Copp
Far better than the nonsense you like to vomit, Mr. Gray
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Daniel Gray
Oh so fact and reality and backed up by validated sources are vomit to you because they dont fit your agenda?
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Bond Wright
Males are responsible for ALL pregnancies--wanted or unwanted. Why? Because they ejaculate. Don't t want abortions? Simple solution.....Teach the all men to stop ejaculating into women. And, make it a crime to do so with punishment. Period. No more problem.. Now watch the outcry from sexist men. They will be running around with their panties in a knot and their hair on fire.This is sexism at its core. Non-sexist men probably already practice pulling away--to their credit.
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Rev Nolan
I think responsible men will agree with you on this.
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Bond Wright
Rev Nolan: Of course they do.
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Daniel Gray
so what you are trying to claim is the extinction of the human race, asa women cant have children without men. And no I am not saying to rape or sexually assault anyone, the ones who do this need to be in prison if proved they actually did it by DNA tests.
So tell me what do you think would happen to you if your parents followed this idea.
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Amber Fry
The thing that you are missing here is that we are connected on the health care level. That means if you contract a communicable disease, you are a threat to other people if you don't self isolate and take care of yourself. However not everyone has that option. People need to work, eat, pay bills, etc. To keep society working and healthy, immunisations are required to keep everyone safe. That isn't controlling your body. It's controlling the disease from entering your body or making your body fight it off more effectively, depending on the disease and vaccine. The point is your rights end when it starts infringing on the rights of others.
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Patricia Sydney Solis
Mixing up apples with oranges here. A flu shot is not a sexual act. Somebody is promoting, in manipulative ways via language, government control of the body rather than autonomy . Think. That's the best remedy. Think, no FEEL, for yourselves what is right. Jesus would agree. So would Mary Magdalene.
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Klos Kris
What the hell does vaccines have to do with a woman's uterus??? The government only suggests vaccines, and for the greater good. Since when is a woman having her right to her own body taken away, for the greater good??? There are 2 reasons I can think of for these freaks to want to remove a woman's rights,,,,, 1, the labor force, they need workers in the sweat shops, and 2, so evil men can get their rock off without consequence, Both are only for truly sick minded people,
All it takes for the triumph of evil is good people do nothing. I WILL NOT STAND BY!!!!!-
Bond Wright
Well, good for you and right on.
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The government did not force anyone to get the vaccine. Getting the vaccine was a condition of situations that people had a choice in. Even if it is a difficult choice, it's still a choice. Get the vaccine IF you want to keep your job is not the same as get the vaccine or go to jail. Making something actually illegal is removing the choice. There are still some people around who didn't get the vaccine and have not been prosecuted in any way because it was not made law. Bodily autonomy was not violated by legislation in the way that these abortion laws seek to do.