Should women have to sign up for the U.S. military draft when they turn 18, as is required of men? A new proposed law would mandate that women be eligible for the draft if the U.S. enters a war at some point in the future and needs soldiers.
While the proposal is gathering steam, so is an interesting coalition of people in opposition. The alliance includes women who hate the idea of being forced into military service, men who believe that women aren’t physically fit enough to serve in the first place, and evangelical leaders who say God intended men for fighting and women for child-rearing.
Controversy on Draft
Those in favor of the measure argue that women are just as capable of serving in the armed forces as men, pointing to the fact that the Pentagon officially opened up all combat roles to women in 2015 as proof.
And the movement for women to sign up for Selective Service is hardly new; President Carter proposed adding women to the draft in 1980, but was shot down by Congress.
Just last year, a congressionally mandated commission recommended that women be eligible for Selective Service. "Every American enjoys rights that are enshrined in the Constitution," Joe Heck, chair of the National Commission on Military, National and Public Service said at the time. "Therefore, every American should have the responsibility to defend those rights when endangered."
Part of that recommendation was based purely on numbers. 71% of American men wouldn’t be eligible for military service based on physical or mental health, or criminal record status. Heck pointed out that "it doesn't make sense to exclude 50% of the population when only 29% of the eligible population is qualified."
Gender Bender
While there’s a lot of pushback from both women who don’t want to get drafted and men who say women aren’t fit to serve, the faith-based opposition to adding women to the draft caught some by surprise. Essentially, some religious folks argue that integrating the armed forces defies traditional gender roles – which is a big no-no, in their eyes.
In an article for The Gospel Coalition, pastor Joe Carter writes:
“Throughout history, most men and women—and even children—have recognized the wisdom of not sending our mothers, daughters, and sisters to the battlefield. The pattern in the Bible is that when combat is necessary it is men, not women, who bear the responsibility to participate in warfare. The pattern in the Bible is that when combat is necessary it is men, not women, who bear the responsibility to participate in warfare (Gen. 14:14; Num. 31:3, 21, 49; Deut. 20:5–9,13–14; Josh. 1:14–18, 6:3, 7, 9; 8:3; 10:7; 1 Sam. 16:18; 18:5; 2 Sam. 11:1; 17:8; 23:8–39; Ps. 45:3–5; Song 3:7–8; Isa. 42:13).”
The argument seems to be that God created men and women for distinct roles, and it’s a man’s duty – not a woman’s – to fight and die for his country.
Carter explains that God created male and female, and "shaped our bodies accordingly." Men were "created to be self-sacrificial protectors of the family and, by extension, of the nation,” he writes, and forcing women to serve would lead to “a general degradation of humanity.”
What do you think? Should the government require women to be eligible for the draft when they turn 18? Or are there legitimate arguments for women to be exempt?
115 comments
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Robert Edward Szekely
The more that I see the Bible cited as support for irrational positions, the less value I begin to see in it. It should become an accepted practice in our legal system to reject any argument which lacks a rational foundation. Citing the Bible when it comes to any matters of State or law should no longer be respected nor enter into consideration.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
If a patriotic, freedom loving, USA’n, has any need to use a Bible (door stop, swearing in, to impress a religious potential sexual partner) they should either use the Thomas Jefferson Bible (available from the monastery) or the Einstein Bible (available from Amazon)
Instead most USA Bible nuts, use the Bible recommended by King James; the same King James who detested the Democratic process, and despised all of our current freedoms as expressed in our Constitution’s Bill of Rights.
The hereafter (AKA, the Christian Heaven) is a Communistic/socialistic dictatorship, authoritarian and dictatorial — that’s why the GOP loves Trump.
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Christopher M Ohnesorge
And you have shown how uneducated you truly are and how much Trump truly lives in your brain, Trump Derangement Syndrome is alive and well in you
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Aaron Michael Sandrock
I believe you are confusing your misguided opinions with truth. What he says may have some bias behind it but it's got more common sense behind it than your insult you threw at him.
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Philip Joseph Ryan
You'd be better off researching the subject matter, before spouting such drivel. For your edification, King James, in 1604 sought to address many of the religious differences by creating one universally accepted translation of the scriptures. This undertaking was begun by a committee of scholars led by John Rainolds.
It is generally accepted that the King James version is the most authentic and accurate version or translation of Scripture. That is why it is so popular.
King James was also the founding Monarch of the United States. Under his reign, we have the first successful colonies planted on the American mainland--Virginia, Massachusetts and Nova Scotia. King James ordered, wrote and authorized this Evangelistic Grant Charter to settle the Colony of Virginia:
"To make habitation...and to deduce a colony of sundry of our people into that part of America, commonly called Virginia...in propagating of Christian religion to such people as yet live in darkness...to bring a settled and quiet government."
So, he was hardly against democracy. In any case, since Magna Carta, Kings have had their powers limited by the charter, and parliament itself.
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Donald G Magel
agreed!
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robert
They should make all of the younger folks do two years in the service, I did four years on the Corps, mad me grow up and taught me valuable lessons
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Some folks are not suited to a military lifestyle.
National Service can have nonmilitary aspects, like the Depression era Civilian Conservation Corps.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Some of the women with whom I served were much more capable than some of the men with whom I served.
If we are truly a land of equal opportunity and consideration, women should have that constraint equal with men to have to register with Selective Service.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I should like to see, as I mentioned above, nonmilitary National Service options. I voluntarily enlisted in the USAF Reserve, after my wife was commissioned in the active duty USAF.
We did our time, got out and have tried to help build community as civilians.
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David Franklin Lancaster
If equality is to ever be accomplished in the USA then it should be at least be required to serve your country.Treat each and everyone as equals.
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Daniel Gray
If men have to do it, then so do the women. If the women dont like it then dont join the military. This is not rocket science here. Women want to be treated as equals, fine, then they need to register for the draft just like men or be known as hypocrites as they dont follow what they preach.
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DGC
Women cannot legally register. Many of us have tried and been laughed at for doing so. The problem is with Congress, not women. We can currently enlist or become officers, however, even when we are right beside a male, both of us being shot at and both of us shooting back, the male is in combat but we aren’t. It’s beyond absurd and it’s wrong. Like me, many women have served this Country. We deserve to have our service equally recognized. That it we aren’t allowed to officially do certain jobs and that we aren’t recognized for the jobs we are already unofficially doing effects benefits we recieve. It also effects our opportunity for advancement should we choose to make the military our career, in many cases it essentially ends our career progression. Would you want to do a job you aren’t recognized for doing? It‘s time for women to be allowed the honor and privilege of serving the USA AND having our service fully recognized.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but the US Supreme Court stated yes they can legally register, all it would take is Congress to pass a bill that would include them just like they did with the men. Like Tammy Duckworth. She claims to be a Combat Vet and she is not and never could be so each time she makes this claim she is called out to be a liar. yes she was a chopper pilot, BUT she was not supposed to be ANYWHERE near where there was any fighting going on. She ignored the orders and lost her legs because of it. If I had been her CO I would have put her up for a Dishonorable as she violated federal law. She would never have received any Purple Heart nor any VA benefits nor would she have been able to run for Congress. And isnt it so amazing that she is the most vocal one AGAINST women serving in combat or being put on the draft/registration. The ONLY thing women can do right now is join groups like my 101 ST Airborne Rangers, 22nd Combat Charlie company for RANK ONLY as you can ONLY be a flag officer (from Brig General on up to General) IF you were in a combat unit. The women whined and cried that this wasnt fair, and then when they found out that if they joined a Combat Unit, they would have to go into combat like the rest of the guys did, then they howled even louder that this was not fair either.
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Teej Johnson
Lol, now you're insulting a veteran with a purple heart because you disagree with her politics. Gimme a break dude, this smear is going nowhere. Good lord, you're such a loser.
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Daniel Gray
No I am not tejas. I am stating fact. Women are not allowed in combat nor near any front lines and until the US Congress changes the rules then Duckworth was in violation of the Army Rules and regulations when she was anywhere near where she was shot at. As it stands like it or not, she was in the wrong and in violation of Army rules and regulations and as such she not only should not have received any medals for her losing her legs she should have been brought up on charges for violating the rules and regulations, as well as costing the US Army a working helo and she should have ended up with a courts martial and or a dishonorable discharge. Even today women can only join combat units for rank ONLY, they still cannot be in a combat unit for anything else and they cannot call themselves combat anything. When Congress changes the rules then yes, but not until then and it makes no damn difference if you like it or not. So give yourself a break dude and only talk about items that you know what the heck you are talking about and in this case you clearly dont as how are you going to call it a smear when its in the US Military's standing rules?
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Teej Johnson
Where's the rule? The only rule I can find are ones for ground troops, and even for those it's not that well-enforced because 61 female soldiers have died in hostile fire. This doesn't really matter because she was going back to her base when the RPG hit her helicopter. Do you have any sources to back up the fact that she doesn't deserve her purple heart, or is it just your feelings, loser.
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Daniel Gray
Then you are going to be very upset to find out you are wrong yet AGAIN
Combat Exclusion Policy, dates back to 1948 when the Women's Armed Services Integration Act excluded women from combat positions
You really should not speak on things you clearly know nothing about
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Teej Johnson
In 1994, the risk rule was rescinded with the exception of ground troops:
"except that women shall be excluded from assignment to units below the brigade level whose primary mission is to engage in direct combat on the ground, as defined below"
Under the definition of ground troops:
"Direct ground combat is engaging an enemy on the ground with individual or crew served weapons, while being exposed to hostile fire and to a high probability of direct physical contact with the hostile force’s personnel. Direct ground combat takes place well forward on the battlefield while locating and closing with the enemy to defeat them by fire, maneuver, or shock effect."
Literally, all you had to do was just read further in the Wikipedia page. Tammy Duckworth wasn't a ground troop by this definition because she was flying a helicopter when she was hit, and she was hit by insurgents while heading back to base. She wasn't on the ground engaging with hostile fire. I'll be the first to admit, I don't know that much about the army, but it's not hard to research this stuff. It takes 5 minutes.
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Teej Johnson
Literally on the same Wikipedia page where you found that quote:
"On April 28, 1993, combat exclusion was lifted from aviation positions by Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, permitting women to serve in almost any aviation capacity."
Tammy Duckworth was flying back to base when she was hit by an RPG. In fact, in 1994, they rescinded the risk rule completely, with that rule only existing for ground troops. This is all on the Wikipedia page and it takes 5 minutes to read it all. Either you're too lazy to read it, too stupid to understand it, or are deliberately trying to misrepresent things. Any way you cut it, you look like a fool.
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Teej Johnson
Did you even read the whole wikipedia article, or did you just skim it?
"On April 28, 1993, combat exclusion was lifted from aviation positions by Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, permitting women to serve in almost any aviation capacity. Some restrictions were maintained on aviation units in direct support of ground units and special operations aviation units"
Also, in 1994, Secretary Aspin rescinded the risk rule, with the exception of ground troops. It's all right there. As far as Tammy Duckworth's story goes, I don't think you read that either. She was flying back to her base when she was hit by an RPG. You're either too lazy to read further or are deliberately misrepresenting the facts to smear people you disagree with. Either way, you look like a fool.
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Teej Johnson
Lol, I don't know anything about this? You searched up something along the lines of "women not allowed in combat" and copy pasted the first thing you saw. If you actually read the whole wikipedia article, you would've found that in 1993, they rescinded this law for women in aviation:
"Combat exclusion was lifted from aviation positions by Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, permitting women to serve in almost any aviation capacity."
She was flying a black hawk to her base in Baghdad when she was hit by an RPG. She wasn't even on the front lines. This is very much well within the rules as far as I can tell, and you haven't given me anything to prove otherwise. It's also worth noting that, even though there is a rule about women serving on the front lines as ground troops, they still do:
"Due to a shortage of troops, women were temporarily attached to direct combat units slipping in through a bureaucratic loophole. Although they were not supposed to be in positions that engaged in direct combat, and were ineligible for combat pay, thousands of women have engaged the enemy directly in Operations Iraqi and Enduring Freedom."
So you're actually wrong about that too, women can fight and die for their country, on their commanders orders even. So, either you are too lazy to actually read the Wikipedia article (which is actually quite short) or you're deliberately misrepresenting the laws. This is why people laugh at you and your comments, you're wrong yet you confidently pretend you're right. I guess that's what happens when you're an American lol.
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Daniel Gray
whats wrong child? mad because you were just shown to be the liar that you have proved yourself to be? Exactly HOW are you going to refute the rule that I posted. Only CONGRESS can change this and nobody else so until they do, that is the rule we go by no matter if you got your panties in a knot and like it or not
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Teej Johnson
Lol, I don't know what's going on. I replied to your comment once and it didn't go through, so I kept trying. Apparently now a bunch of similar replies have gone through. It still doesn't change the fact that what I posted refutes what you just posted. It's literally all there on the Wikipedia page, I quoted it directly, they rescinded the rule for women to serve in almost any aviation capacity including flying helicopters in 1993. It also doesn't change the fact that Tammy Duckworth got her purple heart because her helicopter was hit by an RPG when she was flying back to base on a routine run. If you can actually refute this with real sources, then please do. But so far, you've only shown YOURSELF to be the liar.
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Daniel Gray
sorry but you are the liar. Its easy to see that women can be part of combat units for PROMOTION ONLY, they are NOT allowed to be in combat on the front line nor are they allowed to be anywhere NEAR a front line unit. This is directly from the US Pentagon and the Joint chiefs. And I find it very amusing that you would use wikipedia, the same site that can be changed at the editors wishes, the same site that the creator was found to be "puffing up" his own bio and had to change it back, the same site that if you dare use it in any college or university and even in the majority of high schools, you will get a failing grade. Sorry to bust your bubble child but you really should know what you are talking about BEFORE you start talking
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Teej Johnson
She wasn't near a front line, she was doing a routine flight where she was piloting a helicopter when she was hit by an RPG. And you can search this up, the amendment to the rule which allowed women to fly in almost any aviation capacity is pretty well documented. This is a direct quote from air force magazine from April 28, 1993:
"Secretary of Defense Les Aspin lifts the long-standing ban on female pilots flying US combat aircraft, including Army and Marine Corps attack helicopters."
Even some basic research would show that you are wrong. So either you know you're wrong and are just trying your best to smear someone who won a purple heart, or you are too lazy to even look up the claim and find the numerous sources that back it up. Either way, you're still an idiot, by far one of the dumbest people I've come across on the internet.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Instead of a “Draft” the USA should (like Israel) require everyone, to spend at least two years, contributing a necessary service to the USA. And, military service, would meet this requirement.
In return, one would be able to attend any public college (including law, or medical) that one could pass the entrance exam, to get into — at no cost to them.
If a female wanted to become a Navy Seal, and could pass the physical in order to do so, so be it.
And if the mythological Jesus, wanted to comeback to the Earth, so he could be coerced into committing suicide again, this time he could come back as a female, before he tried to save “womankind” this time, instead of mankind during his last visit.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
The draft is and has always been an evil that needs to be abolished. Mandatory service shows one to be on the side of authoritarianism.Nothing about the people of Israel are worth modeling a civilized nation after, as they are among the most vile modern countries and their actions towards the Palestinians every year make it easier to see them as no better then the Nazi the world once saved their ancestors from not all that long ago.
Education, medical, homes, all these things should be a thing a modern and wealthy society gives to all and shine as a virtuous symbol of all that such success can bring to a society, rather than be used as carrots and the stick of having not to force people into slavery and violence.
Remember any and all who sign the contract of service are bound forever as proeprty of the government, the very definition of a slave.
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Angela Guyton-Cyril
As a Veteran I think two years mandatory is a fabulous idea because then you are able to get the benefits that come with being in the US Military. .
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arawngraalrd
Two years Involuntary Servitude would still be a draft. As to Jesus coming back as Woman, at last reports, she is 17.
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John Norris Campbell
Your last paragraph only shows your ignorance about what you hate so much. Perhaps you should diversify your hate and include all the other 'myths' you do not agree with. That way you can insult Muslims, Jews, Hindues,and anyone else that does not believe the same as you. Perhaps you could make a poster board declaring "Mohammed was a Pedo desert pirate" and go to your local mosque and start a dialog...I'm sure you'll be just fine, and don't forget to take some "selfies' while you on the way to the hospital.
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Teej Johnson
Someone's a triggered little snowflake aren't they? Need your safe space?
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John Norris Campbell
Hello "Tejas Srikanth" Thanks for your opinion about a subject that was directed at another person entirely...To make amends, I've started to address the paticular person my comment is addressed to, just as I have just addressed you. Care to expound on your comment? Or are you just like a fly on the wall evesdropping on a convo that has nothing to do with you? I was adressing a hate filled moron that only expressed his hatred towards one group in paticular...the very definition of a bigot.
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Teej Johnson
Lol, he was making a joke and you got mad. You're just as sensitive as the left-wing strawman you've created in your mind. Go back to your safe space, snowflake.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That sounds like a good, original story for a book, William. I bet it would be a bestseller! You better get started on it before one or more of our fellow ministers steals the idea.
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Rev Nolan
Wow! You and I think a lot alike. I didn’t read your reply to the post until after I replied to the post.
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Clay Serenbetz
I agree with 1 year mandatory service to the nation, but not necessarily in the armed forces.
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DGC
Good idea. An unintended benefit of the draft that ended when the draft ended was that people got out of their little corner and got to see there are other ways of doing things. The fact that that no longer happens has contributed greatly to the them versus us mentally that has become so pervasive. Whether in the military or through civilian community service, all Americans need to spend 1-2 years working for their country. It will give them a vested interest in the USA, something that has been lost due to voluntary service in the military being provided by only about 10-15% of citizens. Thanking a member of the military is nice but all too frequently that’s where it ends. Many people just plain do not understand what’s involved in serving this Country. There are sacrifices, but also the many opportunities.
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Joy
I was in the Navy and I am a woman. It was good for me and taught me a lot about myself and life in general.
I think everyone should have to do a one or two year stint at something - military, Peace Corps, NGO, Boys and Girl's Club, etc, but let the person pick. There is a lot of potential out there. Finding it might be the hard part for some, and not all are suited for the military life.
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Rev. Forrrest
Unless and until women are given equitable opportunities and treatment at every level in our country, I do not support women being drafted. In fact, unless our country is under immediate, existential threat, no one should be forced to serve in combat.
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DGC
This!
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Thomas A. Follis
I’ve had to bite my tongue over this trying to keep my mouth shut. Can’t be done. I already know how most, if not all of you will respond to my comment so, there’s really no need for you to respond. For this site to supposedly be faith based, there sure are a lot of people on here with a “Holier Than Thou” attitude. Your worship practice is different so all of a sudden, you’re better and smarter than everyone else. Also, here’s a news flash for a lot of you. I served 21 years in the US military and, I’m no ones property nor am I a slave. I did it for love of country as well as people like you guys so you would have the rights and freedoms to get on sites like this and show your true colors. And, in case you haven’t noticed it, a lot of you are on the edge of giving up those rights/freedoms. Now,as for women in the military goes? There was a time when I felt that women were a part of this country and should therefore share in the burden of the country’s defense. That has change over the years. Women sharing in the burden has become a burden. Putting women in the military is a huge mistake. EVERYTHING has to change for the accommodation. I can only tell you my story but, I’m sure I’m not the only one. I’ve served with active duty military women since the mid 80s not all, but most with higher rank walked around with a “Godly Attitude” because they felt they were better than everyone else. Those that rank lower portrayed an attitude of “I’m a female,I don’t wanna do this and you can’t make me”. My last sea command was a shop being transferred overseas from states side. Over half of the roughly 500 female got pregnant to avoid doing their job. During my last 2 years of working military law enforcement, it got to the point that I was even allowed to talk to women. I almost watched my career go right out the door. Like I said, I already know what you’re going to say. I know what you’re thinking. You’re mostly all wrong but, go ahead. I’m wide open to listen to your negative, know it all attitude. After all, isn’t that what most of you are all about?
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David Franklin Lancaster
I can only say I think you are right, BUT I served in the military and feel that I was very lucky not to have any females to worry about. There were none in the unit I was serving with.
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DGC
You don’t need to worry about a female any more than male. If you do worry, that’s your choice. Being male doesn’t mean someone male can do a job males have traditionally done any better than a female. I watched males seriously mess up in jobs that are traditionally male, mess up in ways which could have cost lives.
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AetherAgent
The only people who should be eligible for the draft are members of Congress. They want to start a war, they can be the ones to fight it.
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Philip Joseph Ryan
True equality means that women have to accept responsibilities, and that should include being conscripted into the armed forces, on the same terms as men.
They should also be made to serve in infantry units, as well. It might just make people think about who they vote into office. It is interesting that so many presidents did everything possible to dodge conscription. Trump famously 'suffered' heel spurs, that got him off being conscripted.
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Ralph A. Lawrence
A compromise that should please most advocates is this: Allow women to voluntarily place their names on the draft rosters for any branch of service needing personnel. No one forcing them, yet allowing them to do so freely. Of course, they can volunteer, as now, to join a specific branch if they personally desire to do so.
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Marcel French
If we are to truly want and seek true equity then it makes sense. I also agree with the sentiment of mandatory service time. Be it voluntary, draft or mandatory what is needed most is to do a better and much less political process, for the placement of the right people for every career and position. Military service should be about honor, equally and love of our fellow service members and citizens, guided by a government leadership that cares more about the service members and citizens then empty perception. Perception that is not supported by results is weak and encourages corruption.
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The Rev. William C, Millhouse
I support women being drafted as well as men. As to religious objections, I say that holds no weight due to the doctrine of separation of church and state,
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robert
Sooo who , if one was in combat, would want to have a 130 lbl woman carry you as a man weighing at 200 lbl? I know when I was in it wasn’t even a discussion and most women , a few tho, don’t want to be in that situation!
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John Anderson
I've seen a 120 lb woman fireman carry a 250 lb man. It all breaks down to doing what is necessary in the situation. Adrenaline is amazing when it comes to getting things done. It's not about the gender, or the size. The reason they don't want women in the draft is they don't want to lose control. Mandatory National Service, whether military or not, is a good idea to get people to understand things. Not just Israel, but Switzerland as well, has had mandatory service, where EVERYONE does at least 2 years either in the military or in another public arena. At the height of their power, Nazi Germany threatened to invade Switzerland, which they had surrounded. The Swiss general's response was priceless: "Each of my men will have to shoot twice". They would shoot down ANY military plane crossing their border, Allied or Luftwaffe. Mandatory service is a good thing. Everyone today is concerned about their rights, but forget that the rights they cherish come with responsibilities.
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Bruce Savage
I haven’t seen any 120lb woman that could carry a 250lb man. I suppose it’s “possible”… I wouldn’t want my life on the line trying to find that out or hers for that matter!!
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DGC
Women are also citizens. We should be able to serve our country in any capacity we are capable of fulfilling and be fully recognized for doing so. Not all males are SEAL material and I have served with men who couldn’t do a chin-up or who ran and hid rather than man a hose when there was a shipboard fire. One’s sex has very little to do with how well an individual does in the military. Throwing road blocks at women cuts out a little but more than half the population. We really can’t afford to do that.
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DGC
Women are also citizens. We should be able to serve our country in any capacity we are capable of fulfilling and be fully recognized for doing so. Not all males are SEAL material and I have served with men who couldn’t do a chin-up or who ran and hid rather than man a hose when there was a shipboard fire. One’s sex has very little to do with how well an individual does in the military. Throwing road blocks at women cuts out a little but more than half the population. We really can’t afford to do that.
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Rev Nolan
Well said.
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Lionheart
Yes exactly, and who would want to be carried by a man dressed as a woman on the battle field wearing lipstick, as many men seem to do nowadays? I guess if I was injured I might have no choice.
I’ve always had my doubts about the Jesus guy who is portrayed wearing a white dress. I think he’d have less followers if he also carried a handbag. I mean, if he turned up today and asked me to follow him, wearing that, I’d seriously have my doubts. I think I’d have to say, no way Jose’ …..just sayin’
🦁❤️
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Rev. Dennis
You make me laugh
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Well seeing as how a stick of a woman like Gal Gadot can literally carry a man twice her wait over her shoulders while running an obstacle course( Something every single person has to do in the ISF btw, yes carry twice your body weight no matter what that weight is, if your a 250 guy that means you need to be able to carry 500 pounds, which is why btw the ISF does not encourage larg body builder types in their ranks, a man at a 165 pounts is considered in optimal musculature and health if he is around 5'10 give or take. and that only goes up to a 175 at 60 foot even. The idea you want to be huge and ripped as a soldier is a stupid idea popular in the U.S. armed services and is part of why they end up so badly damaged by the training itself. You do not want men 200+ pounds doing things liek jump training or ranger school as that difference of just 20-30 pounds will cause drastically worse wear and tear on the kneeds and spine.
Basically a smart service has botha min and max standard for body size, and being big and buff is as bad as big and fat. Also bigger guys need more food, this is why Alexander the great famously had every man in any given unit be as close to a body weight and height as possible, so that it was able to give the exact same rations to each man in a given unit, and adjust the amount based on the average size of the men in that unit. Something modern military leaders would be wise to do the same as, as it also means uniforms and armor are easily redistributed to remaining members after a battle and losses are incurred and gear needs to be mended before the next march.
Its pretty clear you are at best some soldier slave, and lack the higher mental capacity needed to be one who manages and leaders the lesser minds of this world.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'd like to see a show of hands of all the men who think they could handle seeing a bunch of Of pretty, dead, female soldiers all over a battlefield.
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Rev. Dennis
How many people could handle any dead people around them regardless of gender. War is a waste of so many things but defense is sometimes necessary, otherwise you could be forced into involuntary servitude by a conquering nation. Just because you are in the military does not necessarily mean you will see combat, although the potential exists. You are currently more likely to be killed as a civilian by other civilians as worldwide violence is spiking.
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Victor Marcus Monroe
I would also like to see how many can handle a field of dead men soldiers with their bodies torn apart and some of them were friends? Soldiers come home from war, which is a 4 letter word, and end up committing suicide or reliving that moment in their nightmares. PTSD is real. A dead soldier is a dead soldier no matter what the chromosomes are but I do get your point.
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Rev Nolan
I don’t necessarily support a “draft,” but I do believe that as soon as individuals turn 18, they should be required to serve their country abroad in on capacity or another like a two year mission for your country building up nations so that they can become self-sustaining while getting accredited college credits for on hand training in the field(s) of their choice. In the process, rather than draft these individuals into the military, I support recruitment from among those on such missions, once they have served their two years abroad. If male or female wants to join the military and he or she makes it through boot camp, then we can at least know we have among the best selections for our military.
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Angel
Listen, I am a female who has worked several "male dominent" jobs such as a CO and Loss Prevention. And what I noticed is this..men, in general, have a natural tendency of protecting the female no matter how capbale she may be in protecting herself. Even the inmates have rules about messing with female officer's for the most part. For this reason, women on the frontlines places the men at risk for getting killed because not only are they looking for the enemy, they are also watching out for the female in the group. The second reason is very simple..in most countries wego to war with, the culture in many of these countries disreguard women as human beings, they are objects. If an enemy camp finds out you have a female in the foxholes, they will more likely attack that troop and what do you think will happen to the female? It won't be getting killed, instead they will keep her alive and make her wish she was dead. There have also been many occassions of women getting attacked/raped by their own people because when your out in the field for weeks on end, pressure get's high. People are sexual beings no matter how much you try to reprogram them not to be. And then you have stregnth. I know some women who can literally do as much or even more as a male, stregnth wise, but generally speaking, no they cannot. Female police officer's (I've seen this in the academy of a CO) as shown some lienancy or given accomidations in orerto help them pass the tests to get in. Problem is, in the field, this doesn't work. If you can't pull your fair share of the weight because your notphysically strong enough to pull it, someone else has to pick up the slack. What is your handed a gun and can shoot without any problems, but can you carry the weight of all the ammo across your body while paddeling through waist high mud? Can you do it without constantly falling over and keep time like the males? Probebly not, and if you can't, your placing your people at risk. I could care less about femanist and womens rights when it places another human beings life at risk and when your in a combat zone, the stakes are way higher then busting shoplifters or working at an American prison where the mentality is similiar. Could something happen in a prison? absolutly, but the percentage of it happening is much lower then in a country where the mentality towards women is much different. I don't view this as "conservative" because this isn't political for me, I view this as plain old common sense. You have to weigh the pro's and the con's and what's best for the whole, not to make people happy. I am for equal rights, but not at the cost of other people's lives.
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Bruce Savage
Well stated. I fully agree.
If you watch Cops, you’ll notice that the females in a confrontation step back when a suspect struggled and the men battle for control. They have superior numbers but a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link. The female cop makes the same but can’t do the same job in the end and thus, doesn’t belong there. It’s hurting the team.
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robert
They have lowered the standards is why women can now pass the field test
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DGC
Malarkey.
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Daniel Gray
yea your post is malarkey. I saw it when the so called first woman ranger failed during her third term and instead of having her go back and restart from the beginning like the men have to do after waiting 6 months and then applying again, they were "recycled" (meaning moved back) to the group that was coming up behind them. If they cant do every thing that a guy can do then they shouldnt be there. If I am ever in combat again I want to make sure that if my foxhole buddy is female, she can carry me and BOTH our equipment back to the rear lines if I get hurt. Now how are you going to expect a slip of a woman who at best weighs a buck and a quarter, going to move 160 pounds of equipment (two 80 pound rucks) and a man who weighs between 230 to 260 pounds? She CANT as she isnt built strong enough to do this. But saying that if ANY woman can do this and do everything a man can do to pass the course, I will be first in line to shake their hand and welcome them into my beloved Ranger Corps.
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Ruth Veale
I don't think women should fight on the front line in any armed forces which has always been a male dominated field. However, if women want to join the armed forces then they should do less strenuous jobs. When it comes to some things and the armed forces being one of these things, no matter how much people argue women just don't have the stamina or body strength of a man and would slow things down.
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Allen Haas
Background: The United States last declared war in 1944. That's 77 years ago. Since then our elected officials have crafted numerous specific and general legislative acts to use military force. Many of these uses amount to war in my understanding of the concept. That being said the armed forces have a vast variety of ways to utilize the gifts of all regardless of gender. And although all who serve receive basic training in combat skills including proper care and use of lethal weapons a very small percentage of them will ever see actual combat. We have giants of theology who have produced works on the concept of just war for Christians. The notion that a woman's purpose in life is child rearing - well men are not the hunter gatherers while women sit in the cave tending the fire and children and preparing meals is not a theological concept. Women and men defend their families and tribes when attacked.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
A country that eats its youth, is a country in decline…
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Rev Nolan
A country that eats its youth is full of cannibals.
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Donald Sargeant Brant Jr
With equal rights should come equal responsibilities, including national service of some sort. I agree with the suggestions that everyone serve two years; I would suggest that the two years after high school graduation (or equivalent age for dropouts) would give kids an opportunity to grow up and be able to better appreciate, and benefit from, college, technical or vocational school. I went to college during the Vietnam war and the difference between the veterans and the high school kids was strikingly obvious.
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Tammy Lyn Deschesne
Women today fight spiritual warfare on a daily basis, just like men. Fighting is not just for men. There is a lot of women that have what it takes to fight in battle.
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P. Keith Benefiel
It was the draft that stopped the war in Viet Nam. Maybe drafting women would end war.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Equal is equal. Draft these men and women equally. Let's get these shield maidens on the battle field.
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Patricia Maria O'Connor
No-one should be drafted. Stop fighting and start talking. Stop walking into other people’s countries, raping, murdering, enslaving, and stealing their resources. This is a non-argument.
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arawngraalrd
13th Amendment prohibits Involuntary Servitude, and should protect Men as well as Women. Women can't be indentured as soldiers involuntarily, lest it interfere with their duties as Women, but Equality requires that Men should also suckle their Infants.
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Rev. Dennis
There has also been some question raised about the draft in regards to the 13th Amendment. Surely the draft, for at least some, constitutes involuntary servitude, prohibited by the 13th. The only exception the 13th contemplates for slavery or involuntary servitude is as a punishment for a duly convicted crime. However, the courts have ruled that the intent of the 13th was never to abolish the draft, and that serving in the military, even against your will, is not involuntary servitude. These "duties owed to the government" are exempted from 13th Amendment protection. In Butler v Perry (240 US 328 [1916]), the Supreme Court wrote:
[The 13th Amendment] introduced no novel doctrine with respect of services always treated as exceptional, and certainly was not intended to interdict enforcement of those duties which individuals owe to the state, such as services in the army, militia, on the jury, etc. The great purpose in view was liberty under the protection of effective government, not the destruction of the latter by depriving it of essential powers.
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Nicholas J Page
Yes women's equal rights.If a woman wants to serve their country let them No one is forced to do what they do or not want to do.Its their choice.With the exception of the Ghurkas where women are not allowed to join We have women in the armed forces in the UK no one I have met moaned about joining.I was a civilian driver for the military police and a security officer for the MOD it would have been unusual not to see women.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I can see drafting women into non-combat positions. The only problem of which I can perceive about women in combat positions is the distraction it causes to the male soldiers who are attracted to them. And such a distraction can be a very big problem on a battleground. Otherwise, we are definitely all equal, and have the right, responsibility, and patriotic duty to all serve our nation in the military, if we are of sound mind and body, as long as our nation wants to win wars, and protect it's citizenry.
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flugo
'sea bee ess': WRONG! You said we are all equal. NO! Anyone with basic anatomical knowledge KNOWS the woman's muscular build and skeletal structure are inferior to male's . . when it comes to brute power, endurance ,and strength. You'd do well, avoiding further embarrassment, to do your homework.
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John Norris Campbell
Women's suffrage, is the right of women to vote in elections. Beginning in the mid-19th century, aside from the work being done by women for broad-based economic and political equality and for social reforms, women sought to change voting laws to allow them to vote.Their main opposition to this movement was mailny OTHER WOMEN. Why? Because part of the responsabilty of voting also required that person to be available to fight fires and and form citizen patrols, typically armed, summonded by a sheriff to enforce laws. The law was eventually passed but under the conditions that the women would NOT have to be subjected to the same criteria as the men. Now...150 years later I guess women WANT to fight when "summonded". While all communist countries require "mandatory" service time, that is only because everyone is forced to, under penalty of being sent to a 're-education' camp...aka slave camp. Israel requires military training of everyone at the age of 18, only because in that area of the world, all the surrounding countries are commited to erasing the Hebrew nation off the map and It's a real good idea for everyone to learn how to fight, as they are outnumbered 10 to1. In United States, during WW2, women were the main labor force in the manufacture of war planes and Tanks, and keeping this country's farms running...In Russia, today, school children are taught how to feild strip an AK47, as well as what is known as a Patriots class.While here in the U.S. school children are being taught the joys of masturbation, gender studies and how/why one should hate the color of their own skin...yea maybe we do need a draft...all our fighting age "men" are wearing lip stick.
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Rabbi Francine MacHotka
Currently, the physical requirements to get in and stay in the military have become so difficult that recruiters have to get busy bringing in new soldiers all the time. Not that I disagree with strenuous requirements, there are practical reasons but the military breaks it’s soldiers then ignores that they’ve been broken and then stresses them out to pass physicals and pt tests and keeps them in the end because they can’t be replaced.
I’m not one sitting back with rose colored glasses saying our country’s leadership is so awesome, every time our government orders the troops to go where we aren’t welcome to intervene where we are considered busy bodies at best or how about leading them to an empty garage to sit chaotically.
How about we just leave other countries alone. The rest of the world criticizes our interference non stop and there’s no appreciation so why bother except our president gets to have a tough guy reputation in his own country to rally some patriotic support and allegiance? Why not try to get some genuine love for our country by staying home and making our own country better off.
All foreign governments want is our money. Period. I’ve lived over a decade overseas in multiple countries. I know our reputation first hand having read their newspapers, heard and been apart of the conversations.
In a depression, metal sells and where is metal needed but for war and gets the guys (or gals) out of the work force that’s not hiring. So, here goes our government picking a fight for no reason time and time again. That’s not a reason to sign up to be a soldier or to do what they’re asked to do.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You do grasp if we did as you want, we would also have no reason to have such a massive force, and would likely have to end many of the social benefits given to active and retired soldiers to avoid having them bankrupt the nation as without all the coporate donations to keep us at war, there would be no money to house and feed all those soldiers.
Then again that would be ideal, shut down all our global bases, kick all the excess soldiers to the curb, make them understand they did wrong ever serving such an evil empire, and let society suffer the rot such damaged souls will spread among the society.
Yes good plan I see your goal now, you want to bring down the U.S. and empower Russian to take over the world in the vacuum left behind.
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Rev. Jonathan Peebles
No one should be forced to join the military period. This is the only reason I am actually happy to be diabetic because could not do it with my personal beliefs and for a time I did not agree to violence but now I basically do not trust the military or the government...
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John Anderson
Flag in the pic is both upside down and backwards. Stars should be towards the front of the uniform, closer to the shoulder.
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Ruth Veale
I don't think women should fight on the front line in any armed forces which has always been a male dominated field. However, if women want to join the armed forces then they should do less strenuous jobs. When it comes to some things and the armed forces being one of these things, no matter much people argue women just don't have the stamina or body strength of a man and would slow things down.
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Russell Willmoth
Not true, The vast majority of countries do not have women in combat roles, and those that do, which are mainly those where feminism is dominant, they reduce the standards so that women can pass the tests, and then very very few women end up in combat. The reason is that they get hurt too much, spend long periods injured, and frankly they just aren't very good at it. It's a place where university feminist theory meets reality.
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Bruce Savage
Oh, please!
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Victor Marcus Monroe
The 1940 law instituted conscription in peacetime, requiring the registration of all men between 21 and 35. President Roosevelt's signing of the Selective Training and Service Act on September 16, 1940, began the first peacetime draft in the United States. This law has changed a few times since then. President Clinton added that pregnant women needs to fight on the front line in battle. This too was deleted by president Bush. Having said that only 1 percent of the population are military. It's not for everybody. I spent decades in the Army and have seen those who could not integrate into military life and were discharged without penalty. As far as the draft goes I personally don't think it's necessary because there will always be those who will go willingly. There are different reasons why this happens. I never look at those who don't or won't serve in this manner because they have a right to feel this way or just know what their limitations are when most people don't until something happens that brings them to an understanding of themselves more. I have met women who can fight on the front lines and I would be right there beside them. There are some who say women shouldn't fight because many men believe in chivalry and would put themselves in danger to protect. That's just talk from those who never took the oath. A soldier would put themselves in danger to protect another soldier regardless of the chromosomes. It's almost impossible to explain to someone who has never served what spiritual connection brothers and sisters in arms feel about each other. 2 soldiers who don't like each other will put that difference aside to watch each other's backs. Those who won't shouldn't be there. Blessed are those who would give their life for a friend. I always looked at being a soldier as someone who is willing to protect those who are are too afraid to do it. Being a military person has nothing to do with religion. The main question to me is can you live up to your oath? If you can't then just don't take it. It's ok if you can't. Most can't.
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Ronaldo
This article states; "71% of American men wouldn’t be eligible for military service based on physical or mental health, or criminal record status", but provides no data to verify this. I disagree with this number, unless it's primarily due to the mental state of a lot of our youth. With record numbers of suicides among the young in recent years, mental stability may be an issue. Leaving that aside, and removing all non-violent criminal acts, I would venture to guess that a lot of men would be eligible for some form of service. I served during the Vietnam Conflict, but did not have to slog through a jungle with 80 pounds on my back. I could have done it back then, but did not have to. Now that I am within six months of my 70th birthday, there is no way I could travel more than a couple of hundred yards, at the most, with an 80 pound pack. On the other hand, it would probably not take me long to figure out the changes in the nuclear reactors now in use on Naval vessels, and I could maintain one of them fairly easily. Even at my age, I could serve in our military, and do things very few of those qualified to slog through jungles could do. Not every job in the military requires a strong back and a weak mind, so there is no reason why women could not serve, nor is there any good reason why they should not be drafted if the men are to be drafted.
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Cheryl Anne Hamm
Women have fought and died on almost every battlefield since the beginning. They just had to dress and act like men. When caught they were deemed perverted and thrown out with no pension. Women are now in highly trained and physically and mentally demanding special forces. And in all fairness should be eligible for the draft. Women are definitely not the weaker or fearful sex. They can stand shoulder to shoulder with the best males. Its our victorian sensibilities that have tied women to homemaker status that doesn't apply anymore.
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Alexander Clarke
If one believes that we are all created equal then the draft for all is good. Of course one of the main reason for religions is to keep women in their biblical place - subservient to men.
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Michael S Cope
She is saluting wrong. The american flag us upside down and it should be od green wearing that uniform.
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Clint Knight
Equality! Equal pay for equal work! That includes the military! Feminism doesn't get to cherry pick what they want or don't want! Welcome to the club ladies! Now get in line with the guys!
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DGC
Feminists aren’t cherry picking. If you believe that then you have been misinformed. The issue many feminists have is that equal service by females is not recognized as equal. Females have fought for the right to serve right along side males all along. We already do, however, Congress refuses to make our combat service official. We cannot legally be assigned to combat roles. Right now, if I am right beside a male and we are both being shot and both shooting back, he is in combat but I am not. As a female who has served, I can tell you this is a very common occurrence. The situation is absurd and wrong. Would you want to be shot at and possibly maimed or killed doing a job you aren’t recognized for doing? Many of us have done it for love of our Country, however, the time for us to be allowed to serve equally AND be recognized equally for our service is LONG, LONG overdue.
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DGC
As a female who has served, I can tell you females are already serving in combat. We just aren’t given credit for it because Congress refuses to ‘allow’ us to be officially assigned combat positions. When the male standing/sitting/lying right next to me is being shot at and we are both shooting back, we are both in combat. It is LONG past time to end the absurd technically that says females aren’t in combat for no other reason than Congress refuses to recognize the fact that we very much are.
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Minister Deidre
The fact of the matter is that the United States is not a theocracy. We have separation of church and state for some very good reasons. Whether or not women are included in the draft should have nothing to do with anyone's religion, and everything to do with what women can add to being in combat. The fact that women not only already serve in the military but also serve in combat proves that we are fit for the job. There are many tribes and countries where women serve in combat alongside the men and have for centuries.
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Pamela Kiser Ismail
At age 71 I've always thought we gals have the right to the same jobs, job security, pay ,benefits, education, military privilege, education, recognition for accomplishments, and we're worth more than unpaid household help, baby makers, cake bakers and abuse takers. We have brains. Women were hardworking pioneers who helped "win the west", plowing for crops, living in rough conditions with very little. We made military equipment in wartime, served as nurses, as helicopter pilots in Vietnam and nurses, and women are serving in combat now. They are not cowards, are working hard and have the respect of their fellow soldiers and the families at home, including husband's. Israel has has women drafted into service for years. What's the big deal. If you don't want to be a soldier your M.O.S. can be a consiensious objector status or could at Vietnam draft time and there are many noncombat jobs to fill. I had a friend in the Navy who never had one day if sea duty. NEVER LEFT LAND. There probably won't be a woman Amazon enough to ever be a Navy Seal, but that doesn't mean she can't be a seaman or a pilot. Get off your "Holier than thou" high horses. We aren't fighting trojan horse wars anymore in chariots. We have armoured tanks, missiles and bombs. That's not brain surgery...and guess what, guys! We can do that too. After some of these don't want to be drafted draftees change their first 100 or so really gross poopy diapers, get smacked around by abusive obnoxious macho man husband's that think women aren't good enough for anything except popping out brats and tangle with bossy overbearing mother in law's, they'll be wishing they've been smart and joined the Marines! I thought it was unfair that I couldn't fill out a draft card and thought it was discrimination, often wondering what would have happened had I.
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John Norris Campbell
Hello Miss Pamela...you DO realize that the people that are against women being drafted ARE WOMEN eh? But you are RIGHT! In this day and age of drone strikes and smart bombs, women are still needed to make sandwiches and and bring soft-drinks and chips to the fighting men is their computer chairs...SOMEBODY has to do all the laundry! It's not brain surgery...all ya'll have to do is read the labels.
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Minister Raydeen
Praise God!!! My Bible tells me a lot of things, He has a order if you can find it, some people pick things out to use it for their purpose.....yes we are equal, but a woman can not have authority over a man, my Bible told me that, Man serve God and woman serve man, Its a order given by The Most Highest. say what you want, studied a little more....Praise him!!!!
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Rev Nolan
Yes, Paul basically tells women to sit down and shut up and obey their husbands as their husbands are to follow Christ. Suzanna the prophetess in the Old Testament would have something to say about that.
In the Qur-ān, however, men and women are equal but not the same biologically. With the exception of what nature makes impossible without human or genetic engineering, i.e., conception versus siring, women are provided the same rights as men. Unfortunately, there are sects of Islam that continue to see women according to Arabian traditions and cultures forbidden by the Qur’ān and The Prophet.
I guess this is an example of conscientious objection based on varying religious beliefs or views.
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Lionheart
So if you believe implicitly in your book, and presumably you don’t just cherry pick the nice bits, you will believe in slavery, and stoning people to death, not to mention your approval of the killing of little children by your infanticidal, and genocidal, god?
Who on earth in their right mind would want to worship that? Fortunately though, it seems they are all handed down stories and tales written by human beings that had the ability to read and write, in many cases decades later than the alleged event.
There are actually better stories in the Harry Potter series, and, they are better reading for children to digest, not as horrific, and with better morals. As a spoiler alert though, please bear in mind, if you do read them, they are also purely fiction.
🦁❤️
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Rev Nolan
I just had another idea after rereading all previous comments. Along the line of the mandatory two year mission to serve your country in one capacity or another, high school dropouts or high school graduates with GOAs below 2.5 (using the usual A, B, C, D, F grading system) should be drafted for boot camp and four years of mandatory military service.
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John Norris Campbell
Awesome Idea Rev Nolan! But then you would have the NAACP and the ACLU all up in arms because the majority of failed students with -2.5 are actually inner city school drop outs, wanna be rapp stars and dope dealers that cannot be trusted with fully automatic guns...Good luck with that Idea!
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Marathuzula
Equal rights should mean equal chance to die in combat. World and national populations are out of control. We could use some deaths in war to lower the problem. But lets be honest drafts in modern warfare may be an impossibility. This is a moot argument.
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John Norris Campbell
"we could use some deaths in war"...Let me be the first to volunteer you and your entire family to be the first to "lower the problem" Don't worry...we'll all sing songs and remember your great sacrifice for about 2 or 3 weeks...Let me be the first to congradulate you Marathuzula! Your shed blood will mean absolutly nothing as soon as it has dried.
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Richard Michael Salvatore
RUTH
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Daniel Gray
Sorry taco, but even she admitted that she was in her after action report. So I guess now YOU are calling her a liar?
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Richard Todd Tolsdorf
So many angry comments in a place that should be the opposite of angry...
It saddens me.
I think that "Pastor" is a dumbass.......women all over the world fight in combat roles, the US shouldn't be any different. Plus what the Bible does or doesn't say has zilch to do with how our Secular Government should be run!
A better book about government is called The Republic, by Plato. Thanks for reminding me! It's been too many years since I read it, and will look for it on Amazon, right now!
Lol, I'd prefer if there was no draft altogether and the US tried to deal with things internationally without getting into wars. But yeah, I agree, religion and the Church has no business in government
Hello Tejas...hate to burst your bubble, but EVERY war the U.S.A. has engaged in, is at the direction of this world's banks and corporations...Since the 1950's, every war the U.S. has sent it's sons and daughters to die in, has only been to either steal that nation's natural resources, or establish a new market. Upon your birth you were issued a Social security #...your own personal bar code...you are nothing more than inventory from birth to death...And when the Banks and Corporations need yours or your children's blood to fatten their portfolios there will be another draft...They will use Main Stream Media to convince the American public that what they are presenting is a "fact"...Remember 9/11/01? That lie caused one of the biggest loss of lives since ww2...While YOU focus on "religion and the church" your sons and daughters will die in a war designed to bring a Starbucks or McDonalds to another country...
What does either one have to do with the other? People aren't stupid, they can have multiple different opinions. I don't think religion has a place in government because there should be a separation of church and state. The Bible shouldn't inform policy, science and rationality should. I also believe that the US shouldn't get into wars and that we shouldn't even have a draft in the first place. I don't see how these two are mutually exclusive.