Playboy Magazine, Fifty Shades of Grey, and... The Bible?
One Utah parent is on a quest to get the Holy Book removed from their child's school library, arguing that it contains too much pornographic content.
“One of the most sex-ridden books around,” is how the parent described the Bible in their formal request to have it taken off the shelves. “Get this PORN out of our schools!”
The anonymous parent claims that the Bible violates the state’s recently-passed anti-obscenity law, HB374.
Book Banning Is Back on the Menu
Utah’s HB374 is just one of many bills signed into law nationwide within the last few years, as politicians and school boards rush to censor and remove books they deem objectionable or inappropriate from school libraries across the country.
So far, challenged books have included everything from the expected – like books with LGBTQ content – to the rather unexpected, such as Holocaust memoir Maus, for its depiction of black and white cartoon mouse nudity.
Amidst the flurry of book bans attempted and actual that have happened the last few years, one parent is now challenging the Bible, arguing that the holy text of Christianity is at least as sexually explicit and violent as other books which have been unceremoniously removed from library shelves across the country.
Is the Bible Inappropriate for Young Eyes?
It depends on how you interpret certain Biblical passages.
Among the specific inappropriate content examples they flagged: “Incest, onanism, bestiality, prostitution, genital mutilation, fellatio, dildos, rape, and even infanticide."
“You’ll no doubt find that the Bible, under Utah Code Ann. § 76-10-1227, has ‘no serious values for minors’ because it’s pornographic by our new definition,” the complaint reads.
And the parent also brought receipts; they submitted a massive list of biblical passages – more than 130 – that they say meet the threshold to get the book banned from school.
Here are a few of the passages that made the list:
Ezekiel 23:20 - For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.
Leviticus 15:18 - Also, when a woman lies with a man, and there is an emission of semen, they shall bathe in water, and be unclean until evening.
Genesis 19:33 - 33 So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father, and he did not know when she lay down or when she
arose.
Review Incoming
Similar to how book challenges work in other states, the Bible was automatically put under review by an advisory board.
Because of the massive backlog of books currently being challenged, however, reviewing the Bible for obscene content could take two months or more.
At this point, the review may not be completed before the end of the school year.
That said, the parent is confident the school will ultimately ban the Bible. “If the books that have been banned so far are any indication for way lesser offenses," they wrote, “this should be a slam dunk.”
The Fire and Brimstone Option
Based on the substance and tone of the complaint, it seems clear the parent disagrees with the book ban laws and is using the review process to see if they can fight fire with fire by forcing a removal of the Bible.
But should that matter? The listed passages technically do include sensitive topics like incest, bestiality, and murder.
Supporters of a Bible ban argue that such topics clearly meet the definition of lewd content as defined by the bill.
But opponents of banning the Holy Book disagree. One politician who sponsored the bill, Rep. Kent Ivory, calls the attempted ban disappointing and says requests like this are “antics that drain school resources.”
Ivory insists the bill has a very narrow purpose – to get lewd books that children shouldn’t be reading out of schools. And he believes that children should be reading the Bible. Ivory points out that the complainant must have “really had to go through their Bible study” to handpick the dozens of scripture passages listed in the complaint.
What do you think? It’s pretty undeniable that the Bible contains some sensitive subjects. But should it be held to the same standard all the other challenged books are held to? Or should holy texts be treated differently?
188 comments
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Mark Stricklett
Get over it!
sheesh.....
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Richard Lee Cornell
Pull the Book. It is full of stuff from the Torah which is Jewish and not Christian. Ask any Jew about the Christians that Jesus was Jewish killed by pagans now known as Catholics. Anyone worth their beliefs that a dead person that is blotting is dead. Or they never died.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Too many people think those evil bible stories are real, and that's a good reason to ban that book not just in Utah, but everywhere!!! It totally corrupts the minds of those who believe in it.
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Sheila M Oshea
Can't we all just get along???!!!
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Quinn R Amaro
I believe this: what is in my heart is what I believe and that cannot bechanged by a human. If I find it necessary to quote Scripture it is because someone has twisted the Scripture to meet his/hers own desires. I do my best to never judge because that is not my place. Those who think I judge are mistaken. If there is a human involved in a religion that has a questionable background, this must be made known to the followers which includes the religion I follow. If anyone disagrees with the statement I made, I believe it is time to look deep into your heart and see what is there without parroting the words of the one or ones you have chosen to follow.
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John Condron
Quinn. You claimed earlier that "You can find Joseph Smith sweating in hell."
How is that not "judgement?"
BTW: Wouldn't one run out of sweat after a while in hell? Just sayin'! Heat stroke would be pretty much inevitable, unless you think there is hydration in hell.
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John Condron
This woman has absolutely the right idea. If it is acceptable to ban books (it isn't), then the same standards should be applied to all books.
Or... hear me out... maybe we could just let libraries be what Frankin intended, free forums for the exchange of information, in the form of books. I know, crazy, but it just might work!
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Grand Poobah M
This whole thread is gold!! Valid points all around. No book should be banned. Leads to "whoever" is in charge to tell us what we can and can not do. They can ef off with that crap. Stay in your own lane and leave us be.
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Timothy Holland Sr
Well if they ban the Bible than they should just ban life altogether because that’s just what the Bible is… LIFE!
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Lionheart
How is a book of obvious fables, and mythical claims, with no credibility, LIFE?
That's like me saying that the Book of Mormon is LIFE, or the Harry Potter books are LIFE. Can you see how silly that sounds, Timothy?
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John Condron
So, Timothy. Are you suggesting that we kill everyone? Wouldn't that be what "ban(ning) life altogether"would entail?
Where would you like to start?
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Quinn R Amaro
Those who refuse to accept the Holy Bible for what it is should spend no time being concerned about the Holy Bible but for the hate that Satan put in their hearts.That hate which gives them them to the "right" to decide what others may and may not see and read and hear. What they are doing is exactly what Jesus said, 2,000 years ago,that would happen. If "they" refuse to accept the existence of God and Jesus then leave it alone. Unless they have chosen to ban everything they can and to start the Fourth Reich. And, if they do not know what the Third Reich, if they haven't banned that information, they need to read history and see they are supporting the thoughts and immature emotions of Adolf Hitler and his worthless Satan loving cronies. Think about that.
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John Condron
Quinn, Quinn, Quinn...
The point of this story is that right-wing christians all over the US are actively banning books as we speak.
It is they who are bringing fascism to our shores... from the inside.
Remember, "When Fascism Comes to America, It Will Be Wrapped in the Flag and Carrying a Cross." This is often misattributed to Sinclair Lewis, but we don't really know who first said it. Nevertheless, it is coming true today!
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Rev Ned
Ban it. The Book of Mormon is a much better read.
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Quinn R Amaro
Which is, if course, false. Just ask the conartist who had it written. You can find Joseph Smith sweating in hell.
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John Condron
"Judge not, lest you be judged," Quinn R Amaro (Matthew 7:1).
Who left you in charge of heaven and hell? As I recall, your bible gives that job to someone else.
BTW: I agree that Joseph Smith was a conman. I just don't think it's my job to judge him. Apparently, you feel it is YOUR job.
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John Condron
BTW: I am quite certain you have never read the Book of Mormon, so you are not entitled to an opinion on whether it is a better read. I HAVE read both, and have to say both books are incoherent nonsense.
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Lionheart
I too have read both books, plus the LDS, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, and I can confirm that John Condron is correct in his assessment.
As for your claim that JS is sweating in Hell, you first have to demonstrably prove Heaven and Hell are real. If all you have as evidence are tales from a book, then you have no evidence at all, which is the same as those proponents who believe the Book of Mormon, stories are real.
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J E Del Rio
where is the explicit language or pornography language in the Bible? Pornography–is material that depicts nudity or sexual acts for the purpose of sexual stimulation. However, the presence of nudity or sexual acts in piece of media does not necessarily make that media pornographic if the purpose of that media form is something other than sexual stimulation.
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John Condron
Have you never read the bible?
2 Samuel 13:11-14: “But when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her and said to her, “Come, lie with me, my sister.” She answered him, “No, my brother, do not violate me, for such a thing is not done in Israel; do not do this outrageous thing. As for me, where could I carry my shame? And as for you, you would be as one of the outrageous fools in Israel. Now therefore, please speak to the king, for he will not withhold me from you.”But he would not listen to her, and being stronger than she, he violated her and lay with her.”
1 Samuel 6:19: “And he struck some of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they looked upon the ark of the Lord. He struck seventy men of them, and the people mourned because the Lord had struck the people with a great blow.”
Exodus 21:7-8: 7 “And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she [a]does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her.”
Isaiah 3:16–17: “The Lord said: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty and walk with outstretched necks, glancing wantonly with their eyes, mincing along as they go, tinkling with their feet,therefore the Lord will strike with a scab the heads of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will lay bare their secret parts.”
Isaiah 13:9, 16: “(9) Behold, the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the land a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it… (16) Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished.”
Hosea 13:16: “Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.”
And, my absolute favorite!
Ezekiel 23:20: "She lusted after their paramours, whose flesh is like the flesh of donkeys and whose issue is like the issue of horses."
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Sheryl Kathryn Hussey
Good grief!! Books should not be banned. Families cand discuss and decide what books are age appropriate for children. Banning books is controlling behavior! Let people make up their own minds. It’s called education.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
It doesn’t belong in public schools merely based on separation of religion and government. Based on the wording of the law, it absolutely should be removed. I’ve read it cover to cover multiple times - many times as a minor. It’s completely unsuitable for minors.
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Quinn R Amaro
Then why do you keep reading it? And what is your God given authority for you to decide that the Bible is unsuitable for minors? It could s clear to me that YOU have forgotten that the One had it written is the One who made possible. His gift to you does not give you the authoritiybas a simple minded human to think tor God.
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John Condron
Many unbelievers read the bible, Quinn, because it is the book most american fascists use to justify their actions.
Typically, unbelievers know more about religion, and specifically about the bible, than believers. Per the Pew Research Center, "Atheists and agnostics know more about religion than most other religious groups."
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/21/among-religious-nones-atheists-and-agnostics-know-the-most-about-religion/
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
Quinn, I read it because I was deeply in the evangelical church at the time. I’m no longer involved with them as they weren’t good people and it was rapidly sliding into extremism. I’m now a Pagan/Wiccan priest. The Christian god doesn’t give me any instructions as I don’t believe in him. I make this assessment based upon my education in psychology plus work experience as a library assistant and teachers aide. You’ve been quite rude and made bad faith arguments in this comment section, claiming to speak on behalf of Christianity. It’s not very Christlike behavior you’re displaying.
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Quinn R Amaro
Then why do you keep reading it? And what is your God given authority for you to decide that the Bible is unsuitable for minors? It could s clear to me that YOU have forgotten that the One had it written is the One who made possible. His gift to you does not give you the authoritiybas a simple minded human to think tor God.
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Lionheart
How could anyone think for something that clearly doesn’t exist? 🤷🏼
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William George Keller
If people look for smut, they can find it in a lot of places. The Bible should not be banned!!
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John Condron
No book should be banned, William. That is the point!
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Paul Johnson
Just remember the Devil never sleeps and hell bent on destroying you and anyone who beleive in Jesus Christ. So get ready to fight.
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Lionheart
The Devil is just a human construct with no evidence whatsoever of its reality. Much like all of the worlds gods that mankind has created. There’s also very little evidence of the Jesus fellow.
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Michael Graham Sullivan
What goes around - SHOULD come around!
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Jessica Anne Danner
It is a sad time in this world. Especially for America. The level to which people have lost their minds is so crazy to me but Revelations does speak about it. Christians will be persecuted. If you believe that God created you as I do then your point about the flood is moot. Your point about everything is moot. Only God has the power of creation and only he has the right to take that life which he gives. You can't comprehend God or his word because you think of things that exist in the realm of Space and Time. God lives outside of those.
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Lisa Baker
I started reading the bible in elementary school. Right there at the beginning in Genesis, nakedness, and murder. It was quite the eye opener for small child me.
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Humanism Clergy Linda
Yes ban it from public schools. No place for religion to be in public schools.
Bible has some very creepy crap they did back then which is against law's. Just creepy.
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Ellie_Loves
Banning books is wrong across the board, yet I understand where this person is coming from. This idea that a group of people can deem what is appropriate or not appropriate for anyone is a slippery slope down a rabbit hole we should avoid. Yet there are leaders currently trying to erase and white wash history to suit their agenda. As for a bible being in a school I say remove it or allow every other religious text on the planet to be showcased right along side it. Otherwise we are no better than the Nazis and any other group that feels threatened by literature that allows for free thought and observations on the past, present or future. Remember, knowledge is power.
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toneybarber
The bible and all other religious texts need to be destroyed and erased from all human memory.
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Francisco Ricardo Polzin
There's a reason why Germany was compelled to make copper plaques as reminders of the innumerable book burnings during the height of the Nazi regime. The main reason why book burnings and bans are sanctioned is to control and steer thought towards accepting a single interpretation of what is "right" and "good".
Let's not forget how Goebbles weaponized the mechanisms of religion to elevate Trump....errr, I mean Hitler, to the status of a god-king beyond reproach. Coopting religious symbolism and grandiosity practically eliminate diversity of thought and acceptance of others.
When conservatives ban books, they effectively insulate the populace from reality that doesn't align to their own "family-focused values". Overtly excluding the Bible from their bans starkly reveals their objective -- force their brand of supply-side Christo-Fascism upon the impressionable and ignorant to compel them to carry out the objectives of the power-hungry.
Look more closely at the symbolism and unfounded perceptions of strength (as an Ubermensch) draped upon Trump. The parallels to Nazi Germany are obvious and frightening. THIS is why book bans are dangerous -- it compels the masses to abandon history and recreate atrocities.
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Francisco Ricardo Polzin
Dr. Z,
That was the BEST roast of the Bible I've read in quite some time. And, here I am forgetting to bring the BBQ sauce this time.
Succinct with apt descriptions of ignorance held by the gangbang of authors who dogpiled onto creating one of the most damaging texts to humankind.
I highly recommend your roast. 5/5 stars.
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Patricia Proctor Bee
If the Bible is banned in Utah then the LDS seminary classes should be banned as well. Simple as that.
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Quinn R Amaro
I agree 110%! But, I must make it clear that if they pay to go such a school it should be acceptable. But if it is a public school it is s the responsibility of that school staff to make it clear that staff supports no type of religious or spiritual it faith based thoughts. Also, people need to stop wasting tax money on what the children should be taught at home.
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John Condron
Actually, students are given release time from their public school classes to go across the street to their LDS seminary classes. That, in my opinion, is batshit crazy, but apparently the theocracy in Utah (as well as Idaho) sees it as perfectly acceptable.
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Brien
No, the trouble is they have it classified wrong. Move it to the fictional section with the rest of the imaginary stories. And that brings up a bone of contention with me, if libraries tout themselves as a free thinking resource why do they have a special section for "religious" content? The religious books belong to fiction.
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John Condron
Or mythology. Or anthropology.
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Mary
Its the greatest horror novel ever written I'd say leave it maybe some smart kids will read it and realize just how insane it all is.
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Christopher Johnson
There's a lot to unpack here. Yes, the Bible should be banned if it meets the conditions in the law, because you cannot say "these things are bad in your books, but ok in ours".
Christianity and the Bible are in the spotlight here, because the majority of lawmakers involved in this, if they claim a religious affiliation, claim Christianity. And as it is from THAT basis that these laws are being made, it stands to reason that the symbols of that religion would draw the most fire.
Personally, I do find the Bible to be borderline offensive, not just due to the number of unjust situations perpetrated by or in the name of God, but also for the holes in the logic that are plugged up with faith.
If these other books are offensive to God, why did he allow them to be written? Some say the Devil did it. Yet it's widely accepted that the Devil is a creation of an inferior to God, and a part of God's plan. And that God knows everything we will ever do in the entirety of our lives and all human existence. So, God allows these things either way - either overtly or by proxy through the Devil, all so humanity can make choices that God is already perfectly aware of what the outcomes will be. For these choices, thT he knows you'll make before you're even born, you'll get punished for eternity. If that's not bad enough, an all powerful God, requires humans to usher these "sinners" to judgement faster, when he could just as easily NOT create sin in the first place. One time he did take matter into his own hands there was a flood that killed all the sinful, which for some reason included unborn children and animals (but I guess not fish or birds?) To justify that, the concept of original sin was created in the 16th century and adopted into Roman Catholic dogma.
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Guy Sutherland McLaren
I am against banning books, but if it's good for the goose, then the Gander must man up and take the hiding. I am surprised it's taken this long for someone to bring this up at all. This is exactly why censorship fails, you want others censored and then your rules turn back on you.
You can tame a tiger, but it will turn on you eventually.
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Holly Perloff
We need to stop trying to ban or erase the past. Learn from it and focus on changing the future. We need to do better. The lessons are in our past. Right now the future of this world is bleak.🙏
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John Condron
The bible, Holly, is not history, so banning it is not "ban(ning) or eras(ing) the past."
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Patricia Ann Peeples
I believe it is wrong for them to even think or attempt to ban The Word Of God it for it is for for our Life and Lifestyle in order to make it to the Kingdom. God Rebuke that demon for it is if the devil for people not to have the knowledge of God. 🙏🙏🙏💯💯💯🙏🙏🙏
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Brien
The word of fiction.
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Johnnie Roberte Lambert
Oh Puh-leeze Patricia, keep it to yourself.
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John Condron
Thump that bible, Patricia!
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William J Lewis
Book banning is for the Neo Nazis and Taliban among us, although, I think this is a great argument for not banning books .
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JaZe
That parent is correct, the Old Testament particularly. I was horrified when I first began reading it and never went past 6 or 7 pages.
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Maren Elizabeth Morgan
Definitely needs to be banned for all the reasons raised by the Utah parent. Fair is fair.
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Quinn R Amaro
No. It is not fair is fair. If that parent actually had that concern this is what is taught at home by the parents. If I am concerned about and reading materials IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL it will not have cuss words or blatant sex or the explanation of how to bend it break the laws.
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John Condron
That's the point, Quinn. The bible is chock full of nasty. Sex. Incest. Rape. Murder. Genocide. Genital mutilation. Slavery. You name it.
You say "this is what is taught at home by the parents." Great! If the parent wants to expose their kids to this abusive text, they can do that at home.
Keep the bible and other "holy books" out of the schools.
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Quinn R Amaro
I agree with what you said because I accept the separation of church and state. What I do not agree with us that books are banned and/or censored.
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Markus Grimm
To ban the Bible means banning GOD himself. The word of the Lord cannot be taken down. Modern life's and politics' perversions are vaster than anything from the Holy Book. Amen
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Lionheart
Well, we can ban the Christian god, as well as all the other man-made constructs of the worlds deities. The Christian mythical god is nothing but a genocidal, infanticidal, monster anyway. Who in their right mind would want to worship that? 🤷🏼
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John Condron
You must not think much of your god, Markus, if you think he can be "banned" by mere mortals. Why would you worship such a pathetic diety?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Vaster? You mean ‘more vast’. Do you also struggle with there/they’re/their and it’s/its?
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John Condron
Sorry, "Dr. Zerpersande," but "vaster" is actually an accepted, if unusual English usage. Here are some examples:
https://textranch.com/220315/vaster/or/more-vast/
You would do well to check your grammar before correcting others. "doctor."
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Douglas Robert Spindler
What people do during a church service in Utah.
https://i.redd.it/38feabpaudra1.jpg
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Sharrell Ronald Taylor
Well after reading the comments I believe a lot more people should be banned from making such comments. Keep your comments civil and respectful of others who have different opinions. The Bible is the word of God and no one individual should be allowed to censor it.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
sharrell so if someone says something mean about your religion they should be banned from saying it? well there's a nice attitude. so only your opinion matters then, is that it?
now what about the koran, or the vedas? do they deserve the same level of respect as your bible? or are you here to only defend your particular mythological beliefs?
see you're actually the problem here, suggesting that people should be banned for making comments YOU don't agree with. that is very much a cris chen point of view and I suspect you are one of those people at the "libary" demanding books you've been told are bad to be removed. people like you are sad and pathetic
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Sharrell Ronald Taylor
So you’re a reverend of what? If my religion is mythological what is yours? All I meant was to be more respectful of people’s religions and beliefs. And no I don’t want books to be banned because I don’t like them. That’s absurd. Perhaps it’s you who are sad and pathetic. I have a copy of the Quran also. You don’t know even how to spell it. Peace be unto you
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Johnnie Roberte Lambert
While you're trying to be clever Sharrell, you need to note that Koran is the "westernized" spelling of the word Qur'an. It is a non-preferred spelling but it is noted that most westerners are more familiar with it. You aren't respectful of anyone else's beliefs unless they are in agreement with yours. If they are going to ban books in this country, which was built on the premise of freedom of religion and free speech, we are going down a slippery slope.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Comments of ‘you are sad and pathetic’ paired with ‘peace be unto you’ while in the same freaking comment claiming “ All I meant was to be more respectful of people’s religions and beliefs”? (S.R. Taylor)
The above is a large part of why I’ve given up any tolerance whatsoever for the religiously delusional. I don’t search them out but if they express their Bronze Age nomadic desert goat herder beliefs through the right to free speech then I exercise my right to express the opposing opinion.
Also, isn’t it supposed to be ‘Peace be with you’?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Sharrel, if I pulled out a booger in the shape of a crucifix would you call it Holy Communion, and eat ? I hope you realize that this isn't a Christian blog, and we aren't christian ministers. If you want to be a Christian minister you'll have to be a student at a seminary first.
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David Arthur Lewis
Retired teacher says No, the bible is NOT appropriate for children. I don't know of any elementary school library that stocks bibles, although many do carry age-appropriate selections of Bible Stories and edited versions of the Gospels, which is fine. I feel the Old Testament and the Apocrypha should be rated NC-17 for graphic sex, violence, incest, murder, fellatio, infanticide, adultery, treachery, treason, sodomy, and descriptions of every crime and abomination imaginable. Which is not to say that the books are not enlightening, entertaining, and enriching (for adults).
Seems to me that most of the people commenting about it (including some ULC ministers) have never actually READ the book, and really don't know what's in it. Many who have tried to read it don't understand the ancient language well enough to grasp the meaning. They just think it must be good because it's "Holy" and sheeple bleat about it on Sunday TV.
This entire discussion is just another case of 'Christoids' and 'X-tians' trying to force their religion on the rest of society. By that I mean folks who claim to be Christian but do not grasp the basic concept that Jesus taught. (Matthew 22:36-40)
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Eric Taylor
I agree people should be allowed to read anything they want no matter what religion they all should be included
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Joe
There’s this politician from Colorado who is always quoting the Bible when defending her position on the LGBTQ community and abortion. Then her 17 yo son got a girl pregnant out of wedlock. When asked, isn’t this against your religion, according to the Bible? Her response was, “I’m not going to nitpick about Bible teachings, and no one holds Christian standards perfectly.” Hmm, they love throwing rocks at everyone “they” feel is sinning, then throw the ole, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone, or, “thou shall not judge” when they get caught sinning. Lol
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Gary Leu
The complaint against the Bible was in protest to the law enacted by the Utah State Legislature AND the interpretation from the Utah Attorney General who basically said that one line of text that referred to sex is considered "pornography" under the state statue.
It should also be noted that this applies to books in the libraries as well as books in the classroom used a curriculum. Library books are NOT curriculum according to the Supreme Court. School libraries have a special duty to provide broad unbiased access to knowledge and materials. Librarians are charged with high standards of ethical behavior that they use in managing their collections. Excluding a book solely because you don't agree with the content is censorship. School Librarians consider the age-appropriateness of the books in their collections. An elementary school librarian would include books of interest and readability to students from kindergarten to preteen. A high school would have a different collection.
It enrages me when some parents want to decide for other parents what is OK for their kids to read. Librarians are actually capable of restricting certain books if a parent doesn't want their child to have access to them. There is no need to make a fuss unless you're arrogant, egocentric, and disrespectful toward other parents. It takes a special arrogance to speak for God while you're doing it.
Librarians love input, but let's respect them to do their jobs. Parents shouldn't be deciding if a librarian made the right choice for a collection - other librarians should.
The Bible shouldn't be censored - neither should any of the other books. But if you're following the guidance from the Utah Attorney General, the Bible has no place in school libraries.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
“ The Bible shouldn't be censored - neither should any of the other books. But if you're following the guidance from the Utah Attorney General, the Bible has no place in school libraries.”
Fully agree. And that is exactly why I’d suppirt yanking that Bronze Age fantasy novel.
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Rev “D”
By the way, now I’ve bashed you and your fantasy. My first post response merely asked simple questions about other parts of the fantasy book, and why all nations are not blessed. But of course like most sheep, you missed that. So very christian like that binds you all, glue of pure ignorance.
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Rev “D”
Ban all religious texts from children. Do not allow them in any religious buildings. Stop indoctrinating them. At 18 let them decide if they want to go.
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Quinn R Amaro
The situation here is the failures to uphold the separation of church and state. If religious book of any type had never been allowed into PUBLIC SCHOOLS this controversy would not be taking place.
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Rev. Howard Slayton
We do NOT need to ban the Bible. The Bible gives students (every one really) instruction on what they SHOULD DO and what they SHOULD NOT DO. Of course they would complain at the sheer mention of what the Bible tells people not to do. Heaven forbid, we just leave something alone for once. If it’s not broke, don’t fix it. Children have been reading the Bible in the school house for many years and it has done them a world of good. Children have access to the Bible at home, at church, hell they probably own their own copy for memorizing Bible verses in Sunday school. People have Bibles, and they will continue to have Bibles. If there’s not a copy at the school library, children can just bring their own copy with them to school. So you’re not stopping anything. The Gideon’s hand out New Testaments to 5th graders. And God had blessed our nation because of the Gideon’s.
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Rev “D”
So Bible instructs we should sell our daughters, kill non believers, own slaves, etc. and you okay with that being taught to ? Do tell how god has blessed only our nation, yet not every other nation as well? As for gideons, they should be tried for crimes against children for presenting such blood thirsty murderous incest filled to 5 th graders. SMDH
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
When Rev D wrote: So Bible instructs we should sell our daughters, kill non believers, own slaves, etc. and you okay with that being taught?
David Cox wrote: Rev “D” how old are you 10? Why do you hate God so much did something bad happen to you and you blame God don't let the devil use you to bash God because in the end the devil will lose.
Typical religious believer. Had to field a tough question that is central to the point being discussed and since there was no logical, rational answer the believer first ignores the question, moves the goal post and starts a new topic, which is followed by throwing in an ad hom attack as a smoke screen for the subterfuge of moving the goal post.
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David Cox
Rev “D” how old are you 10? Why do you hate God so much did something bad happen to you and you blame God don't let the devil use you to bash God because in the end the devil will lose. He will be cast into hell he wants to take as many as he can with him. God has saved all those who believes in Jesus. A lot of people are ignorant and they don't even know that they are being used by the devil toying with them. They don't know how to interpret scripture because they are spiritually dead. God showed mercy to all and giving them a way but they choose death
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
God the father is EVIL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo-
John Condron
Ya gotta love Steven Fry! Thank you for sharing that clip, Matthew.
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Rev “D”
David cox how old are you with your rubbish nonsense? 5 years old with monsters under bed? At least you admit you are ignorant. No need to interpret that fantasy scripture. You, like most christians are so gullible over that book of fantasy & mysticism. As per you, god saves those that believe in jesus (which is himself) that came to save his own creations from themselves and is unable to defeat a fallen angel’s evilness from spreading. Yeah okay there bud, keep smoking that crack, as next god had to have one of the alleged creations, already married, birth him immaculately to come suffer to save his very own creations though he supposedly created all in heavens and earth. Wow, the sniff test says “such b*st! Yet you ask how old I am while you believe complete nonsense.
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Rev. Howard Slayton
Rev D
Obviously customs change. But sin is still sin and will always be sin. The Bible gives us instructions not to do certain things. The Bible is holy and true. Mankind is sinful and flawed. Man’s story is contained in the Bible alongside Gods holy instructions. The devil has you misled brother.
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Lionheart
Do you have any demonstrable evidence that the Bible is true, Howard?
Unless you can prove otherwise, “sin” will remain just a human construct.
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Christopher Johnson
I might also argue that if the Bible was not personally written by the hand of God (which we know it was not, the book of Mark being the earliest, and that written about 70 years after Christ's death) then humanity had to recieve it. When mankind would die from seeing or hearing God (hence the need for The Metatron), we would have received it from an imperfect being. And as we are even more imperfect, is it not hubris to think we are capable of understanding a perfect God? Especially through imperfect means?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Utah legislators who for the most part are LDS church will never ban the Bible in their religion so they can call themselves Christians.
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Sean Nettles
Exodus 23:1 you shall not spread false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious Witness. Proverbs 19:9 a false witness will not go unpunished and he who breathes out lies will perish
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Mark Hannon
I have read the entire Bible. I don't use the book as if it is the literal word of God. SOME of it has historical benefits and makes some good sense for living.
I love to study the book of Judges with newbies because it's so wild and catches them off guard.
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Daniel Gray
And the same and much worse can be said about the LDS's. Or the same can be said about Islam and on and on it goes. So for one person to get their drawers in a knot, or a simpler way to say it is to look at a tree and complain about that in a whole forest, does not make a lick of sense.
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Clay Serenbetz
If these deranged book banner people are banning other books with adult topics, then they should also ban Bible. Otherwise, the ban becomes hypocritical and probably Unconstitutional, although with this unethical Supreme Court, who knows?
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Daniel Gray
Nope its not constitutional to ban the Bible, nor is it constitutional to ban the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita or any other religious book as that would violate the 1st Amendment. So do us all a favor and keep your uneducated opinions to yourself.
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Stephanie A Willey
Any book banned, religious or not is a violation of the 1st amendment. Why should any religious book hold any special class or rights over any other book?
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Daniel Gray
Thats my point. They cant ban the Bible unless they are going to ban ALL religious books. And you know as well as I do that people will not stand for this in any way. So one wonders why this thread was even started when it would be ruled unconstitutional faster then ice melting in 90 degree heat
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John Condron
OK, Daniel. What if I declare the Harry Potter books to be the gospel of my church? The Satanic bible already has that level of religious protection. ANY book can be declared a "holy book."
The law passed in Utah sets up specific criteria for banning a book. The bible meets those critieria. If other "holy books" meet those criteria, they should also be banned.
If christians don't like it, maybe they should stop banning books.
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Daniel Gray
Ok as soon as you get harry Potter to be a recognized religion then you can have your books not be banned. Till then deal with it
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Exactly.
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Quinn R Amaro
It is the U.S. Constitution and Bill if Rights which separated this nation from those ruled by Kings and Queens and Emperors and Dictators which, if they do exist now, have no authority at all.
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Colleen McAllister
The Bible does contain some very explicit language and scenes but how many children are going to read the Bible on their own, let alone understand those passages. Besides what could be more obscene than putting an innocent man to death?
Are there other religious books in that library? Is there also a Quran? Bhagavad Gita? I am more concerned that the Bible alone is in the religion section.
And yes I am a Christian.
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Lionheart
Well...talking about putting an innocent man to death, isn't that what your God is supposed to have done to children of the first born when dealing with Pharaoh? How about your gods genocide of babies, infants, toddlers, and pregnant women, during the great flood? How about him asking to stone someone to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. How about him stating that it was ok to have slaves, and that they can be beaten as long as they don't die within the first day or two?
It's a very blood thirsty book, but fortunately, it appears to be all fiction. Let's hope those things never happened.
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Daniel Gray
Oh really Lion? Ok try to do that to the Koran and see what happens. Their prophet married his "wife" when she was freaking six years old and then had sex with her when she was 9. The Koran tells believers to kill ANYONE who does not believe in Islam. And I bet if I looked I could find the same things in every religion out there.
And there you go again trying to imply a religion that you have problems with is false because YOU say so. Are you now going to deny this is exactly what you posted? "It's a very blood thirsty book, but fortunately, it appears to be all fiction." if you dont like religion Lion, then why are you here? And if you dont like religion then ignore it, there is no reason for you to be making snide comments.
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Rev “D”
Deuteronomy 12, 13, 17; Numbers 31 sound familiar Mr. Gray? As for other religions, feel free to point out those other religions, then show us where in USA they push their religious beliefs through laws of either party. We will wait.
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Daniel Gray
SO what laws are they pushing? You make the claim and yet you do not give any proof. As such Rev D, this is nothing more then your OPINION and it should be taken as such
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John Condron
Well, Daniel, how about abortion?(Though the bible is actually supportive of abortion, going so far as to provide instructions for a chemical abortion (Numbers 5:11-31). In fact, that particular passage seems to demand abortion!) Christians use their bible to support thier efforts to ban abortion.
How about the whole anti-trans movement? Again, christians thump their bibles when pushing for their position.
I could go on, but your demand that Rev. D provide examples is disingenous. You just aren't that stupid.
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Daniel Gray
and nowhere in the bible doe it say it supporting abortion NOR does it even mention abortion. So for you to just make this up shows exactly who the stupid one is here.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
The books that hold the sayings of Muhammed are very explicit which is also a sacred text in Islam. There is one book in Hindu which is about sexual practices which is really explicit . Only book that needs to be banned in any library is the Satanic Bible which is against any k.own existence of God's Creation. I am almost inclined to say to ban Hitler's Mein Kamph and his speeches but that needs to be read to warn us never again and yet the democrats and the socialist agenda is about the very same thing. Bring the population down to 2 billion to manage as slaves. They openly talk about it at Davos in the yearly WEF get together with all of their prostitutes and sex trafficked children. Bill Gates and all these elites are using climate change as an excuse to kill the rest of us. Don't think all these barge accidents, train derailments aren't intended to poison our water and land. Amazing the land that China and Bill Gates is buying up holds alot of underground water sheds. No conspiracy theory. If we don't ban them from existence we won't need to worry about banning books. Their new approach now is to change the wording in classic fiction.
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Daniel Gray
Um no. While I may not like satanism, the Supreme Court ruled it and atheism and humanism all three are religions and as such the books are considered religious texts and cant be banned. The freedom of Religion and the ban for Congress to make a religion are absolute and cannot be separated, its all or nothing.
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Lionheart
I’m sorry you see my logical statements as being snide comments, Daniel.
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Daniel Gray
they are not logical Lion, they are your OPINION. Try and separate the two next time.
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Lionheart
5/10.
Try and do better before the next Parent Teachers meeting to improve your score, and especially work on your ego, or you’ll be seeing me after class.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Yes. Lionheart does make snide remarks.
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Lionheart
Who? Me? 🤭
Please excuse my Englishness, I've seen too many Monty Python, Benny Hill, and Ricky Gervais skits,
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Well, then if you're being comedic and sarcastic you're completely forgiven. Sometimes I take people's comments very seriously. Especially when the White House gas turned into "Killer Clowns From Outer Space".
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Lionheart
I agree that the White House clowns are totally destroying this once, very powerful, and wonderful country. We are now the laughing stock of the world. We have totally lost our border control. We need an ID to get married, get a vehicle license, and borrow a library book, but none to cast a vote for our countries leader. 🤷🏼
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Quinn R Amaro
Please be nice to Jack Nicholson because it wasn't his fault. Thank you.
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Guy Sutherland McLaren
11 not 9
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Daniel Gray
Nope, NINE years old https://luk.staff.ugm.ac.id/kmi/off/XIslam/USA/chap0302.html and even if it was 11, thats still child rape.
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Rev. MichaelRS
You did not address the issue that was his real concern; The Bible being singled out in this regard as opposed to any other religious books.
Why is everybody so hot to remove the Bible but they're not brave enough to stand up there and demand the Quran be removed?
I will tell you why. Because today's Christians will only TELL somebody they are going to Hell for engaging in blasphemy or other certain sinful activities.
On the other hand there's no shortage of Muslims who would try to send them their personally. And that includes the "sin" of disrespecting the Quran.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
The bible is being singled out because it is it's adherents that are dictating what anybody else can read wherever they are able - so I for one feel it is entirely appropriate that somebody is applying to their book what they apply to everybody else's.
Seems entirely fair to me.
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Rev “D”
Agreed. Always funny how the Bible thumpers fail to see their own hypocrisy.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Good summary by RLF Sanderson.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Or is it that said Bible adherents are objecting to straight pornography or erotica involving children as part of an agenda to desensitize them regarding certain sexual activity and to sexualize them in a certain direction from an early age?
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Michael Hunt
Name one book that has been requested to be banned from libraries that is straight pornography or erotica. Maus? And Tango Makes Three? The Hate You Give? Beloved by Toni Morrison? The Handmaid's Tale? All of these books have been the target of bans or have been successfully banned from schools and you would have to be one twisted person to find any of the content in those books to be erotic or pornographic.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry you three but teh SCOTUS said you are all wrong and so did the Constitution. Now if you three want to try and overturn these two groups, then feel free to try. Just get ready to be humiliated so badly that you vanish from sight never to be seen again like the Newdow guy from California who tried this and got slapped down so hard from the SCOTUS that he is still trying to dig himself out of the hole he put himself into.
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John Condron
That is the entire point, Daniel. Banning books is unconstitutional. Period.
Banning books is a step towards totalitarianism.
The SCOTUS is supposed to protect us from totalitarianism. The current SCOTUS does not appear inclined to do so, but that is the theory.
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John Condron
Well, Michael, at the top of this thread there is an article about a Utah woman seeking to have the bible removed from a school library, based on a Utah law.
I seriously doubt that the Quran is in that Utah school library. If it is, someone should seek to have it removed on the same basis.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Those things happened to cleanse the world of such evil it was beyond meaning. Just as the Holocaust and Hitler and all the Communist and Socialist murderers are incomprehensible and what they plan to do and are doing already with the Great Reset. What the Covid jabs are now doing. What they have planned is worse off then any of the past. They will make this planet unliveable if it wasn't God's intention to eventually step in.
They are no.more concerned about climate change then the man in the moon. What they are doing to the planet with cloud seeding, these chemical spillsvall planned, meat packing plants being burned, the fake avian flue, it's all being done by individuals being paid. And it all happens in agricultural areas. Over 40,000 farm animals have died from the train derailment in Palestine, Ohio. But, you don't here the press talk about it. It's againstbtheirboverlying agenda. But, I think the people are very aware in the U.S. what's going on. Our silent complacency is really the sleeping giant that is just awaiting g the right moment to rise and destroy these elites like the crime family in the White House and the other threr family's before them. Not even counting the congressional crime families past and present. Put them all on stakes and impale them for crimes of treason against the U.S. and humanity once they're found guilty which crimes of treason demands.-
Lionheart
Ohhhhh ok, Keith. Sounds like a wonderful god. He must have taken great pleasure watching babies, toddlers, children, and pregnant mothers drown.
Have you ever watched someone die, Keith? The experience is horrifying. Multiply that by hundreds of thousands. But, hey, I’m sure your god was totally ok with it. Keep worshipping it, Keith. You obviously need it for some sick type of reason. 🤷🏼
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
If you really truly understood theology you would understand the reason for cleasning the earth of evil. The downfall caused great departure from God's ways. So he cleaned it of sin. He gave ample warning to repent. Of course I've seen people die in a happy death devoid of pain even if sick. You just are a totally devoid of any understanding. A liberal who gaslights but doesn't really care about anyone. you don't fool me. Evil exists because of sin. God is not responsible for peoples decisions. So don't gaslight. You know more care about thousands od deaths then a man in the moon.
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John Condron
"Theology," Keith, is “the science of God or of religion" (Websters dictionary). I would quibble with that definition, as the word's origins have nothing to do with "religion." In any event, I take issue with the idea of studying something you can't even prove exists.
Prove that your specific god (or any god) exists, Keith. Then we can talk about who "really truly (understands) theology."
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Lionheart
The biggest insult you just gave me was calling me a Liberal. Thank goodness you didn't say I was Woke 🤭
As for the rest of your diatribe, Keith, everything you mentioned is a construct of human kind. Sin; Downfall; God; Cleansing; are all human constructs with not a shred of evidence they are real.
Fortunately, there is also no current evidence of a world flood if you truly understood the science of the earths geological history. Also, if you understood the science of genetics (animal, and plant, genetics), you would also know there was no original man, aka Adam and Eve. The very fact that you believe in the "sinful fall" of that mythical pair, sadly shows the level of your academic education.
Thank you for your comment. 🤗
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Quinn R Amaro
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John Condron
The only "proof" of which is in your bible. Quinn. There is some independent evidence that the man we now call "Jesus" really existed, but there is zero independent evidence for the resurrection and ascension of the Christ. Such an event, as described in your bible, would have been a very big deal, and surely would have been mentioned in contemporaneous historical accounts. At the very least, I would expect some mention of "the bodies of many holy people who had died (being) raised to life," and going "out of the tombs after Jesus' resurrection and (going) into the holy city and appear(ing) to many people" as described in Matthew 27: 50-54.
But yet, the Romans, who wrote down lots of things, failed to note zombies wandering around the city? I don't think so, Quinn.
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Quinn R Amaro
I do not claim proof and I never have. Regardless of what anyone has written is not what I base my beliefs on. I base my beliefs on what I feel to be the truth and disagree with those who seem to think they have the right to tell me what I may or may not believe. If I chose to believe that a 1943 Mack truck with a 1973 Fiat Spyder engine and powered by Gummies Bears is the Great Pumpkin, you cannot change that. Can you understand what I am saying?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Can’t change your beliefs but I can justifiably say that you are delusional.
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Lionheart
Yes I have read it, Quinn, and that is why I now realize how much ridiculous nonsense it contains. I really can't believe there was a time that I fell for it.
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Quinn R Amaro
And that, sir, is your personal choice.
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Lionheart
Of course it is, Quinn, but my assessment is based using logic, reason, and critical thought. Is your assessment just based on a belief structure with no evidence, much like many others do with the Book of Mormon, Quran, Bhagavad Gita, etcetera?
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Rev “D”
You right not many children read on their own. They have those invaluable Catholic priests and Christian youth ministers that instruct them by giving personalized one on one private instructions on what sex acts are sinful, and which are not. That they then practice on till they get caught or child grows up in shame.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Rev. D . What is your hidden underlying hatred of the Catholic Church. Your statement I find elusive and some might find it offensive so just shut your atheistic trap.
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John Condron
He mentioned youth ministers, Keith. That suggests that his comments apply to more than catholics. But really, you don't have a problem with the catholic church, given it's long history of protecting priests who were known to molest children? Do you follow the news? Are you aware that the report just released that shows that the Archdiocese of Baltimore protected 600 such priests?
Surely, other churches have been guilty of such abuses, but with the possible exception of the Southern Baptists, none hold a candle to the catholics.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Yep, ban it. Or try. You have to remember that the US is composed of about 85% or so ‘believers’. These delusional individuals eat double-standards for breakfast. They vote their ignorance.
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Rev “D”
Wow, where did you get that percentage from 1950? Multiple news agencies and research groups have the percentage that identify as Christian between 55-63% since 2021. With the number dwindling steadily downward as more & more come to realize that fantasy book written by word of mouth years & years after, later rewritten, translated, rewritten again then rewritten some more is nothing more then poor excuse used to justify one’s nonsensical suppression views on others.
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David Cox
Rev “D” the bible talks about people losing faith in the end times.
12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Many on this blog their love has grown cold because they think they are smarter than God. The ONLY true God. He has given everyone a chance but you rather be with the devil and go where he goes
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Rev “D”
Quoting a fantasy book is just that quoting a fantasy book. To tell why god needed mere mortals decades & hundreds years later to write it all? Oh right, because the publishers been making bank on best selling fantasy story since.
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Quinn R Amaro
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ServantOfJudgement
It's not fantasy when archeological digs uncover what the Bible documented. Sure, sure, you can deny God but you're not able to deny the great many events that have been uncovered by scientists, both athiest and believers alike.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
‘The bible talks about……’
Here we go, somebody using the bible to support what the bible teaches. The bible was written by ignorant Bronze Age nomadic desert goat herders that apparently thought they could not only explain cosmic origins (a magic being that had been there forever snapped its fingers) but could also explain biogenesis (Mr. Magic uses a bit of dust and upstages the future David Copperfield). And yet in spite such major insights the ignorant twits couldn’t even explain where the sun went at night.
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Quinn R Amaro
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John Condron
Ah... name-calling. The last tactic of a person with no real arguments. "I can't challenge your argument on it's merits, so I'm going to attack you personally." Most of us grew out of that tactic in elementary school, but it is in the theist playbook!
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Quinn R Amaro
They cannot grow out of giving a personal attack when they are proven wrong because their level of immaturity will always out weigh good common sense. Am I wrong to have said that!
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ServantOfJudgement
Actually the vast majority of our laws can be found in the old testament although ours today are a little wacky comparatively. The ever expanding universe is also identified whereas our enlightened scientists only just recently discovered that. Human nature and psychological patterns we know to be true today can be read from the Bible at your leisure. The method of teaching God uses throughout the entire Bible is the single most effective method even today. Many many truths we all rely on can be found there. As always though, God says it best.
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ServantOfJudgement
The dictionary is used to support the dictionary. That's nothing new or strange. Steven hawking used his own work to support his own work, same as Darwin. Nothing odd there.
Regarding the concept of magic, in general atheists select this word because it plugs in for an ability or procedd that's outside their realm of comprehension. While they have a hard time explaining where we came from and still can't, a Christian fully comprehends where we came from, no magic required.-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The dictionary doesn’t support anything. It’s a compilation of meanings of the words we use. Scientific works compare previous observations with current observations and develop theories that incorporate both. And it is all based on observable facts and can be replicated. The bible? No reproducing that stuff. No proof whatsoever.
Mr. Magic snapped his fingers. Silly.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The dictionary doesn’t support anything. It’s a compilation of meanings of the words we use. Scientific works compare previous observations with current observations and develop theories that incorporate both. And it is all based on observable facts and can be replicated. The bible? No reproducing that stuff. No proof whatsoever.
Mr. Magic snapped his fingers. Silly.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
And keep in mind that your existence depends on all of these theories and facts. You use them every day. Your daily life depends upon them.
The bible? Squat all.
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Lionheart
Why should anyone care, David, of anything written in a book of fiction. I bet you’ll be saying Unicorns, a talking snake, and a talking donkey, were real, right? 🤭
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William J Lewis
Lawlessness, per capita, has only increased in the news, due to the instant availability of "News" through modern technology. News now is broadcast as it is happening, where it is happening, around the world. It is immediately shown on TV and sensationalized because that is what the people want. Considering there are 7.5 billion folks living on earth today it is actually more peaceful than it was 150 years ago. Not only that, but Major events would take Days and weeks to Hit the news. Many things would be read about in history books. Very little was known about the Lewis and Clark expedition until 150 years after it happened. Stop being concerned about the "End of the world" and be a little more concerned about the 6th extinction.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Just checked. Gallup poll indicated 81% believe in god, which is what I meant by ‘believers’. Of course I knew all those aren’t xtians so didn’t know that exact percentage. I haven’t lived there for 30 years. But there were enough of them to elect Trump in 2016. So I was guessing if you tried to ban the bible (a justifiable effort using ‘their’ standards) even more would crawl out of their echo chamber to vote.
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Lisa Miller
Does talking down to others make you feel superior? Who hurt you? The way you speak to others is a reflection of how you feel about yourself. You must be very sad and lonely.
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Pink Clover
Be sure to check more than one resource. The number of 'Christians' in the USA is 62%-65%. Keeping in mind that believers don't all believe the same thing, no matter what they call themselves. We have been shown that repeatedly for the past 7+ years now.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Gallup…the gold standard of polls.
As opposed to somebody telling me to check other sources. You have figures. Do you want me to check source after source until I find a source that matches yours and then stop, saying “Oh, Pink was right!”.
Give me YOUR source. And if it isn’t as well known as Gallup give me one more that matches it.
My guess is that you are taking the approximately 20% of Americans that support Trump, and multiplying their 300% increase over the stupidity of the average stupid American.
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John Condron
In this particular case, a more important statistic than the number of "christians" in the US is the number of christians in Utah, since that is where this particular case will be decided. Per the World Atlas, 73% or Utahans identify as christian; 55% of these identify as mormon. Note that mormons have their own "holy books," but they include the bible among them.
The Pew Research Center reports a somewhat lower number of mormons, but agrees that 73% of Utahan's identify as "christian."
BTW: I would argue that Pew is more reliable than Gallup.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
“ In this particular case, a more important statistic than the number of "christians" in the US is the number of christians in Utah”
You may consider that more important but extrapolating that to cover the nation isn’t warranted.
I went with Gallup that 85% are xtians. Pew is a valid source and says 64%. But that includes children and they are just little echo chambers. I’ve only got a horse in this race bc I went with Gallup at 85%. Seems like the actual number is lower and THAT’S GREAT NEWS!
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John Condron
I'm not "extapolating" anything. Read the story! It is taking place in the state of Utah!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
When you take something that is happening in Utah and then use that data to say something about the entire US that is the definition of extrapolation.
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John Condron
I did not cite data from outside of Uth, "Dr." In fact, that was exactly the point I raised. In fact, you captured that in the sentence you chose to quote from my post! I was commenting on a story that took place in Utah, and said nothing whatsoever about the larger country. I am beginning to suspect you might have some reading comprehension problems.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
My original comment, which may have strted this particular thread, was that there were about 85% ‘believers’ in the US. You’re talking about Utah in a thread/ comment oriented around the percentage of religiously delusional Americans. The bulls**t in Utah is found all over the US. If it were just Utah then perhaps I would not have been so quick to expatriate.
I despise the manner in which threads are displayed on this site. This thread has become to narrow. I quit.
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Quinn R Amaro
Truthfully, I figure about 60% if those who vote are basing their decision on what their personal emotions tell them instead of reading everything they can for an informed vote.
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Mary
Its the greatest horror novel ever written I'd say leave it maybe more smart kids will read it and realize just how insane it all is. I get what your saying but we shouldn't sink to their level and start banning books. Put The God Delusion, the santanic bible, the witches bible in there too. Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris should defiantly go in there too put them all together on a shelf and keep adding right next to the xtian bible.
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Quinn R Amaro
Thank you. Very few see the benefits of leaving it alone do each individual can make her and his own personal decision.
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John Condron
Apparnetly, Quinn, you stopped reading when you saw that Mary wanted to leave the bible in the schools, and failed to note that she wants "The God Delusion, the santanic bible, the witches bible in there too. Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris should defiantly go in there too put them all together on a shelf and keep adding right next to the xtian bible."
I 100% agree with Mary on this. If you REALLY want to let individuals make their own personal decisions, you should support this, as well.
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Quinn R Amaro
No, John. I read all that Mary wrote. Regardless of how she feels about such books and how she classified them, she is still 100% correct to not ban books.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Ok. Dr. Mengele
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Quinn R Amaro
It amazes me that so many humans think they are smarter than others. And based on what? What another human told them and their foolish misbegotten being that they are SMARTER then others. Are they? You will realize your failures when you are on your deathbed or when you are dead and you suddenly have to accept for eternity what you claim is bs right now.
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John Condron
Quinn. By definition, 50% of humans are above average in intelligence, and 50% are below average. That is how intelligence, and pretty much everything else (e.g., height, skin pigmentation, weight, foot size) we can measure. works.
Survey after survey finds that most people consider themselves to be "above averabe," but that CANNOT be true. Again, BY DEFINITION.
Some people are, in fact, smarter than other people.
According to a 2013 metaanalysis of 63 studies published in the Personality and Social Review journal (DOI: 10.1177/1088868313497266), there was a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity. In other words, as religiosity went up, measures of intelligence went down.
Another study, published in 2019 in the Personality and Social Psychogy Bulletin Abstract (DOI: 10.1177/0146167219879122), found essentially the same results. Note that this second study was done because some of the results of the 2013 study had been challenged. In other words, this was good science, in that scienctists do not read just one study and consider the question closed. Replication studies are a normal part of the scientific culture.
One last thing, Quinn. Your last claim was just s restatement of "Pascal's Wager." Though Blaise Pascal was a brilliant mathemetician and philosopher, this particular argument has been refuted so many times that I am surprised by the frequency with which theists trot it out. Look it up, Quinn. You might learn something!
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Quinn R Amaro
My concern, John, is not looking up information but an understanding that it does not matter the intelligence of anyone if they are not able to separate fact from fiction and make an informed choice. Yes, there is a lot I need to learn but I will always do my best to understand others and not parrot a human form of judgement to condemn others.
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John Condron
Quinn, the ability "to separate fact from fiction and make an informed choice" is one of the many things that make up the construct we call "intelligence."
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
A dozen or more years ago I had a heart attack and ended up lying on a table while doctors did an angiogram. What the doctor found was not what the doctor expected from my symptoms. A coronary artery was almost totally blocked. I could see the fear on his face. Although a month long stay in the hospital with three separate stent procedures resolved my problem, at that moment in time I thought I was dead meat. I really thought it was over.
It wasn’t until later when I was back in my hospital room, that I realized that the old saying of “There are no atheists in a foxhole” is a crock of excrement. The quaint believe in the supernatural deity never even crossed my mind for a single split second. No thought whatsoever. No deathbed realizations. Nothing like that crossed my mind. What I felt was just kind of a letdown. It was like being on a roller coaster and after going through the exciting parts you’re coasting very slowly into the boarding area and you just feel a kind of a sadness that it’s over.
Quinn stated “ It amazes me that so many humans think they are smarter than others. And based on what? What another human told them and their foolish misbegotten being that they are SMARTER then others.” The hilarious aspect of this comment is that you base your beliefs, with no proof whatsoever, on the world view of a bunch of ignorant, Bronze Age goat herders.
Keep in mind that I don’t ‘disbelieve’ in your god. Such a thing doesn’t even warrant that much of an act of thought on my part. I simply do not give any credence whatsoever to your claims for the existence if a deity, a deity which I have never seen an iota of proof for.
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Lisa Miller
Then they also need to ban these trans books that they have been sneaking in to the libraries of elementary schools with full depictions of masterbation and oral sex in comic book form. If the bible has smut this is full on pornography the world is grooming children to get medical professionals money from the LGBT people. It's a full on pandemic of idiots.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Please give title/author of the books depicting masturbation and oral sex that schools ‘have been sneaking into libraries (under cover of night???) of elementary schools’. This sounds like the perfect example of just parroting bulls**t that you have been told by delusional nutjobs.
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Daniel Gray
This book is gay by Juno Dawson. This described sexual acts and masturbation so much that a parent was almost tossed out of the Dearborn Michigan school board meeting just for reading two pages of it out loud. Now if this is that bad that the school board stopped him, then why should anyone with any brain cells think its ok for children to get hold of this? Same thing happened at the Collingswood Middle School in North Carolina. And in Wasilla Alaska
Or gender Queer a memoir by Maia Kobabe which shows actual homosexual acts in comic book fashion. You did ask Zerpersande and these are just two books from a list. So if you dont want to be proven wrong, then you really should not be making the challenge.
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John Condron
That, of course, is the point, Lisa. The mother described in the article is using the very laws right-wingers are using to ban such books to ban the bible.
To do otherwise would be hypocritical.
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Rev Mark D
Pretty racy stuff.
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Quinn R Amaro
Just as racy as the Katzen Jammer Kids?
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Poor old Americans are really getting their knickers in a twist over the most minor things. Was Semen not involved in making the lady a mother, or did she keep her eyes shut for that bit. And now they are saying that Michelangelo's David should have his rude bits covered up. Sounds like half of you are still stuck in the 12th century