Imagine going about your day 3,600 years ago. Maybe you visit a local shop, visit with your family. It’s a quiet, sleepy afternoon, no different than any other day.
Well, except in one way.
Unbeknownst to you, a massive rock is hurtling towards you at 38,000 miles per hour, explodes 2.5 miles above your head, and instantly incinerates you, your city, and everyone you know in a heat blast 1,000 times stronger than the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
Not the best day.
Using new archaeological data, scientists say that’s exactly what happened in the Middle Eastern city of Tall el-Hammam thousands of years ago. And what’s more, they say this real-life devastation may be the inspiration for the biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Science Does It Again
The answers to what exactly happened to Tall el-Hammam were some 15 years in the making. Hundreds of people from three different countries spent a decade and a half excavating the site and testing sediment to determine what happened.
Now they believe they’ve solved the mystery: A massive firestorm, courtesy of a gigantic comet that hurtled through space at tremendous speed and exploded overhead. The heat from the blast was enough to blind anyone looking towards the city, metal began to melt, while wood (and people) caught fire instantly.
The area went uninhabited for hundreds of years, likely because the soil was contaminated from the event, leaving the earth completely barren for crops.
While it’s likely that there were no survivors within the city, scientists say it’s possible individuals from neighboring settlements might have witnessed the event, and lived to tell the tale, passing the story down for centuries until it was written in the Bible as the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Rain of Fire
Of course, if the Bible is to be believed, your ‘average day’ in the ancient city of Sodom was likely anything but sleepy.
Within the Bible, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were smote by God for their wickedness. As described in Luke 17:29, “The day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.”
Biblical scholars have long debated what sort of wickedness the inhabitants of Sodom were up to that offended God so badly. Some traditional interpretations hold that the Sodomites were engaged in rampant homosexual acts, and many Christians cite the story as part of the basis for their opposition to homosexuality.
However, other scholars believe it was the sin of pride that caused their downfall.
While that debate will likely rage for a long time, it seems entirely possible that the inspiration for this particular Bible story came directly from the unexpected destruction of Tall el-Hammam, passed down from generation to generation.
What do you think? Was this just an unfortunate cosmic event, or could it have been the power of God at work?
105 comments
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Rev. Howard Slayton
I think the argument that Sodom and Gomorrah fell because of pride and that’s why God destroyed them is weak.
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flugo
Howard: VERY weak . . . . . to the point that that argument is NOT adequately supported by Scripture.
God says REPENT! But, the guilty, those who are addicted to, and the purveyors of this filthy, abominable LGBTQxyz lifestyle, ignore His warnings, think they're enjoying their life, and are getting more deeply submerged/entrapped into their perversions.
They, as well as ALL sinners, must find that their only rescue is Jesus, and His sacrificial work on the cross!
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Carl A. Hankins
Remember the ghost you heard but never saw.? Most is just nature and superstition. Do people make themselves ghosts or are they just upset because their body fell apart from pattern skin baldness. Doesn't ghosts help you to believe in God or are they just bad little ghosts you want to spank. Oh. What shall they be causing tomorrow. They need God to be their daddy so they won't be lost...
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John D. Partin
You amuse me very much, too, and far more reasonably than you say that I "amuse" you, since you are, supposedly, a "minister", who either doesn't know or act on the knowledge that actual ministers have that title for their profession because they are MINISTERING!!!! to atheists and other wayward souls to help them come out of their darkness and wrong thinking. When they don't minister to those people or tell me or other ministers to stop ministering to them, due to their "thinking" wrongly that the ministers are "easy marks" or for whatever reason, as in your case, they no longer qualify as ministers!! Keeping these atheists and their ilk coming back, so that they can be given Christian instruction and brought into the fold of Christ is our and your responsibility, as you should already know without my or anyone's having to tell you!! Start doing your job toward Cowardly Heartless Lyin' (just calling "Lionheart" by his actual name and what he is and a spade a spade!!) and everyone else or throw away your ministerial credentials, which you aren't earning!!!!!
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John D. Partin
It isn't pride to tell people the truth about themselves, but only humility, since it is their pride that makes them lie to themselves. You will come to admit that very soon, too!!!
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Rev Mark D
John Partin: You don't get that he's baiting you to get you going, and it's working, which I now find amusing since you obviously, possibly sinfully, take yourself way too serious and now descend into name calling etc. Time to give it a rest, detach yourself from being such an easy mark, and move on, lest 8nformed rational people begin citing the very long history of Christian atrocity and inhumanity as bad as anything you sling at somebody else in your pride.
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John D. Partin
"Rev." Mark D: you don't get that it doesn't matter what he thinks he is doing to "bait" me because, as I told him already, I'm actually baiting him to keep him coming back for the purpose of his reclamation and reform, which won't happen without his continuing to come back!! So, he can tell himself any foolish thing that he wants, as he and his ilk always have, and lie to himself to his heart's content and "think" that he "is playing and baiting me", the same as you or anyone else here can, so long as he is reclaimed and reformed by Christ, as he will be if he keeps coming back long enough!!! So, you will be, too!! "Name calling", as you put it, is accurate observation and calling a spade a spade!! You aren't serious about any of your "beliefs" because they don't deserve to be taken seriously and you don't actually believe in any of your nonsense, anyway!! Only serious beliefs, such as we Christians have, can ever be taken seriously at all!! You are all my easy marks and being drawn into my trap to bring you to Christ, as hard as you try, poor things, to struggle half-heartedly against that and "think" that you "aren't being brought into Christ's fold", while it's happening!!! You won't give yourselves any rest from coming back to me to read more of the truth because you want to read and know it and can't help yourselves any more against it!!! You know as well as I and everyone else knows that the Communists, Nazis, and other ungodly people have committed far more atrocities BECAUSE!!!! of their philosophy than any few "Christians" have DESPITE!!! Christ's teaching and example, thereby proving themselves not true Christians, but you will come to admit that very soon now!! At least, be honest about that!!!
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John D. Partin
Spoiler Alert: You might want to talk to some Christians about their actual beliefs about the Saints, so that you won't continue to make a fool of yourself in front of everyone here by your stupid statements, such as anyone believing that Santa Claus rides in a sleigh around the world, delivering toys to children, instead of merely being representative of the joys of giving and the Christmas spirit!! But you will probably want to be sitting down for that, as it will be a great contradiction to your ignorant and unrealistic view of Christianity and shock to you and your brainwashed wife's delicate systems!!
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John D. Partin
Would you, if you were confronted by a spirit right in front of you and staring you in your face, still deny that it was really there, and was "just an underdone bit of beef", so that it would have to ask you "Oh, Man of the Worldly Mind, do you believe in me or not?". As another man and spirit conversed in a novel by your countryman Charles Dickens called A Christmas Carol? Do you also need to be visited by spirits and taken back to your past, throughout this present, and into your future and shown your grave to try to convince you of the errors of your ways?! Just an appropriate message for you at this Christmas time to show you the reason for the season (Jesus Christ), not the solstice, and hoping that you can figure it out better than you have before any such visitation would be necessary for your reform and reclamation and before it is too late for you!! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
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John D. Partin
Is that the same "logical thought, mixed with a certain amount of reasonable intelligence" that makes you believe that a mindless universe can, somehow, still come up with super-intelligent laws and interconnection of them for its own operation, which all the geniuses in history put together couldn't do, and that prayers that are answered with people's receiving what they asked for "weren't answered by anyone because there isn't anyone to answer them and they are just coincidence", which you say about no other cases of people's getting what they ask for?!! That "logical thought" and "reasonable intelligence"?!! When you can't, obviously, put that together and figure out the whole universe's reason for being here any better than that, which is clear to anyone who actually thinks about it that it didn't come up with itself and doesn't maintain itself without a mind behind it, why would anyone believe you about the Bible, either, when the actual Word of God in it, of love, is clearly different from the human rocks and dirt in it? But you just lump it all together and throw the baby out with the bathwater! Very "logical" (that is, stupid!) procedure!! Reading the Bible deeply to see the deeper love of God there brings people closer to Him and Christianity, while reading it superficially, as you and other atheists do, seeing only the surface human rocks and dirt in it, drives people out of the Church.
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Marius Gabriel Burja
Suspicious Observers channel on YouTube needs our help. You will know the truth about what happened and what will happen.
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Shanta McBain
These scientist have an agenda. Every site they looked at has the same conclusion. A metier did them in but never hit the ground. Some of the evidence points to this. Others don't. Science dose not agree that this is the solution, possible but not probable. Some evidence is cultural for the time IE the dead being berried in or around residences. A common occurrence historically for the period. Another anomaly in the data is the closeness of the sites they say this happened to. The more current sites that we know were examples of the meteor strike, and they happen every year in varying sizes, Are far more random over the entire planet to justify the conclusion.
Interesting to look at though as a possible explanation.
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Rickey L Smith
I have to agree with Russ on this one
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, if they'd quit posting the boisterous scribblings of loud and aggressive fools on this blog I'd be able to avoid them. However, I get the impression that they want me to do their dirty work for them, so their hands will remain crystal clean. And I honestly don't mind. As a matter of fact, I'm really quite tickled pink, to oblige, while singing "Happy Days Are Here Again"!
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Gordon Billingsley
The point of the Sodom and Gomorrah story is to vilify city life. The Hebrews were a pastoral people who saw themselves in a special relationship with God. That's why God preferred Abel's sacrifice of a lamb to Cain's grain, a symbol of settling down. The S&G story amplifies the thought that wandering is good for maintaining the covenant with God, city living is bad. It may have had the practical impact of keeping the boys down on the pasture where they felt they could avoid the wrath of God.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The problem with that Gordon is too much time in the pasture gives those country boys too many kinky ideas about doing perverted things with barnyard animals. I'd rather stay home, in constant quarantine, in the ❤️ of the city, and do all my shopping between Amazon and walmart.com. Along with what I get from them I spend too much time on this Android smartphone to ever get too hungry, angry, lonely, or tired (H.A.L.T.), so I think I have a better than average chance of survival in the city, despite it's evil ways.
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Karen Marie Kissinger
This is the same theme in all of The Hallmark movies. City is evil, rural small towns are good. Ha!
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Karen Marie Kissinger
Gordon, your theory tracks with the reoccurring themes in Hallmark movies and the romanticism of rural life.Big city life equals corruption as opposed to moving to a small town and opening a cupcake business which is the obvious path to redemption and finding true love.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I wonder what flugo thinks about all this blather.
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Lionheart
It's not just flugo, it's John Partin as well. I think they mean well, bless them, but who really knows? All we can do is love them.
🦁♥️
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Rev Mark D
You and Carl need to realize you are sending the poor guy off into the deep end, they don't understand how you are baiting them and how it is working and poor John Parton is escalating, and pretty soon it is going to dawn on John Parton whereupon he is going to blow a cork and have a heart attack. Someone needs to help him understand he does not have to become apoplectic every time you say something unless you say "Simon says" first. Must be an R from Wisconsin.
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John D. Partin
It's you and all other atheists in here because we can figure out, just logically, that a mindless universe can't come up with its own laws and interconnection of them for its operation and so there must be a Mind behind it to do what it can't do for itself. You might "mean well", though I doubt it, but "meaning well" by itself doesn't matter, since the road to Hell is paved with good intentions! God bless your poor confused minds! All we can do is love all of you by telling you the truth!!
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flugo
'lying fart': You guys, deficient of academic integrity, fail to believe God's Word on homosexuality. Instead, you resort to a blather of isolated ambiguous bits and pieces of Scripture.
Genesis 19 is unmistakable in describing the homosexual intents of the male inhabitants. ( and, yes, they dis display a degree of hospitality!) Deuteronomy 23, They also had other sins as described in Ezekiel 16. God's views of this sexual vice is obvious in Leviticus 18 & 20.Romans 1, Jude, I Corinthians 6, Romans 1, just to name a few.
God's intended plan for man and woman in early Genesis is His unchanging view. Any lifestyles of the LGBTQxyz ilk are rightfully an abomination to Him.
A heap of broken, damaged, worn out, useless hammers lying at the base of an unblemished anvil reminds me of your vain attack on the eternal Word of God.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You may think it's still a beautiful world Ehrman, but I still agree with Devo about that. "It's a beautiful world we live in, beautiful in every way. Beautiful people everywhere. I love the way they show they care. Makes me want to say: It's a beautiful world, it's a beautiful world, it's a beautiful world for you, for you, not me"!!!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It looks like we've got a fresh batch of those evil, irreverent, prolific christians on this blog to run off. I've got a lot more obscenities to shout at them, and will be right here waiting for them, screwing Jesus all the way, for his insubordination, and failure to kiss my holy feet!
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flugo
'seabee': I fear for you for your blasphemous, vile, and foul aspersions toward God and His Son Jesus.
Each of your breaths and heartbeats are a gift from God. He's giving you every chance to repent of your decadent, rebellious and irreverent life. For soon you'll come face-to-face with Him in judgment.
I make the foregoing comments out of concern for your eternal wellbeing, not in criticism. Repent!
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John D. Partin
Carl Bernard Elfstrom, if you believe that Christians who stand up for the loving Jesus against His enemies are the "evil and irreverent and prolific" people here, while you and your ilk, I suppose, are the "good, reverent, and unprolific" people here, you have everything upside down and inverted in your mind, as do most of you here!! As for "obscenities' running us off", you very much overestimate their power to do that, since even 300 hundred years of 10 major persecutions didn't succeed in getting rid of Christianity and the Church finally conquered their persecutors!! So, a few profane words to try to accomplish that will just be a big waste of your time, but knock yourself out (literally!!). We are from this world, too, and have heard all those same words and used them ourselves before, and so aren't impressed by them at all!!! Your talking about "having sex with Jesus" again is more proof of Pagans' and Wiccans' having no morals at all and not doing unto others as you would have others do unto you!! Your saying that that would happen because of "his insubordination and failure to kiss your holy feet" just shows your overblown ego and opinion of yourself!! You said in other posts of yours that you "believe in humility", but that isn't evident in your comment here!! Come down off yourself and get some actual humility about yourself!!!
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Lionheart
You are far more worthy Carl. Well done. I hope you had a good Yule Tide. Beltane is just around the corner. Always a fun time! I'm surprised Christians haven't adopted Beltane. They did try with the Easter thing that we call Ostara....right?
Take care
🦁♥️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That damn bible never mentioned a word about the women eating eachother, but if the men were doing it with eachother you know the women hadto be, too. And those were the days, before perßonal hygiene was an issue, when fish truly smelled and tasted fishy. Imagine that for a moment, and see if it doesn't make you barf.
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Rev Ned
Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. No mention of sex or debauchery. Joel Osteen's "church"?
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Rev Ned
Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Kinda like 45's family doncha think?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Watcha talkin' 'bout, Willis? I'm always glad to give the poor and needy directions to the local soup kitchen, Our Daily Bread, where I did volunteer work for a couple of years. I can also tell them how to get to local free food giveaways, but I'm going to keep stuffing my fat, couch potato face on the food I painstakingly spend all month pre-shopping for at Amazon and walmart.com. Except for special holidays, like the Witches New Year, that's coming up soon. So I bought a new charcoal grill and five pound boneless pork loin with this months order from walmart.com, and there's ten single-dwelling units in this little apartment building where I live. So I should be able to slice ten half pound porkchops out of that loin, season them with Mc Cormick's barbeque rub, and throw them on the grill, so I can feed the fat, arrogant faces of my couch potato neighbors, to make sure they won't knock on my door later that night, while holding a little bag, and saying "Trick or treat"!
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LB
EGO not God or Spirit speaks frequently on this site.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ministers, not god, have only ever spoken on this blog, Loney. And if you don't like it, "please, I emplore you, let the door hit you in your irreverent ass, on your way out"!
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Eric
Please include a link to the peer-reviewed paper when reporting on developments in academia:
"A Tunguska sized airburst destroyed Tall el-Hammam a Middle Bronze Age city in the Jordan Valley near the Dead Sea" T. E. Bunch et al. https://rdcu.be/cyzDa
This provides appropriate recognition to the authors of the study while giving readers the opportunity to learn more. It's also standard to provide the name of the lead author, for example, "Using new archaeological data, Ted E. Bunch (Northern Arizona University) and other scientist say that..."
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Eric, I also saw that Tunguska episode of The X-FILES. I've got the first six seasons on DVDs. You sound like quite a fictional scientist.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Sorry all it wasnt Yaweh, it was myself. Being a supreme cosmic being that surpasses little Yaweh, I frankly find it amusing so many here think that small pathetic being has the power to manifest anything beyond a few fish or water turning into wine.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I heard it wasn't even good wine, Ilmenheru. And the fish were scràwny, and half starved. On top of that nobody could find the Tony Cachere's to season it. They had to get drunk on that cheap wine before they started eating it. Apparently, that little demi-god didn't even have any culinary skills.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You forgot to put the letter h after the a in Yahweh, divine cosmic being Ilmenheru.
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
God moves in mysterious ways His wonders to perform! It seems He uses his natural world to do His bidding. We call things miracles, even though a natural thing has happened. Why? Because of the unexpected happened at that time and place I.e. the mysterious hand of God was involved. People make big mistakes trying to figure out God outside what He has already revealed to us. He has not revealed all. Eve wanted the knowledge of God, the people of Babel wanted to reach heaven to see God, but these attempts did’t work out to well. Be patient in the faith and at that time all will be revealed. AMEN
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Rev Mark D
... and God created darwin, and said "It is good." And Darwin's followers created the Darwin Award, and said "Yes, like shooting fish in a barrel."
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It wasn't the masks they were wearing to avoid catching the plague Shango, but the amyl nitrite the sniffed too much of while having sex with those angels. They mistakenly thought they could sniff as much as those angels they were screwing. Never think of yourself as being as mighty as an angel, just because he's a good lay.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, by comparing myself with others, I joyfully guard myself from fools. And that's not something to be bitter about, but quite the opposite.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, besides people striving for high ideals and sometimes being heroic, the world is much more full of stupidity, as its highest ideal.
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Rev Mark D
Boy you got that right.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, I wouldn't have dark imaginings, if it wasn't so much fun. I'm laughing too hard to be distressed about anything.
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Daniel Gray
Does not surprise me that they can explain this. Sort of like the parting of the red sea, Science has determined that it was an explosion of a volcano in the med that cause the waters to move out and then come back like a tidal wave. While the Bible claims it was from God, even science proves that it did happen
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Rev Mark D
Daniel, can you care to track down a reference or source for that one, I'm really awfully curious about it and just maybe need the tiniest tail to get me started in a search that will take me on all the way through that.
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Rev Nolan
I recommend you “start with” Zacharia Sitchin’s “Earth Chronicles.” From there, you’ll know what other resources to hunt down.
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Anisahoni
And Christine Hardy, Michael Tellinger.
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Daniel Gray
For Sodom and its sister city
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/biblical-city-of-sodom-found-in-jordan-a6693576.html
https://scitechdaily.com/sodom-and-gomorrah-evidence-that-a-cosmic-impact-destroyed-a-biblical-city-in-the-jordan-valley/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/destruction-of-city-by-space-rock-may-have-inspired-biblical-story-of-sodom-180978734/
Parting of the red sea https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/volcanic-eruption-triggered-biblical-parting-of-red-sea-d8pc0ttg0c0
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1412815/Biblical-plagues-and-parting-of-Red-Sea-caused-by-volcano.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-carbon-dating-tool-could-determine-if-ancient-eruption-tied-to-exodus/
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/03/scientific-explanations-for-the-parting-of-the-red-sea-the-10-plagues-and-the-burning-bush.html
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2271871-volcanic-eruption-may-have-forced-ancient-egyptians-to-abandon-a-city/
Scientists Explain Red Sea Parting and Other Miracles - ABC ... https://abcnews.go.com › Technology › story
Scientific explanations for the parting of the Red Sea, the 10 ... https://slate.com › news-and-politics › 2010/03 › scienti... Mar 26, 2010 — Before he parted whatever sea it was he parted, the Bible describes Moses and ... which in turn caused a population explosion among frogs.
Santorini and the Exodus - Bible Odyssey https://www.bibleodyssey.org › tools › video-gallery Eric Cline on the theory that the volcanic explosion of Santorini and the ... up it caused a tsunami and that was the parting of the Red Sea and that caused ...
Rapid Red Sea Deep Water renewals caused by volcanic ... https://advances.sciencemag.org › content › eaar5637 by F Yao · 2018 · Cited by 19 — Observations suggest that the large-scale climate variability associated with large tropical volcanic eruptions or the North Atlantic ...
Volcanic eruption may have forced ancient Egyptians to ... https://www.newscientist.com › article › 2271871-volca...
Science and the Miracles of Exodus - Europhysics News https://www.europhysicsnews.org › 2005/03 › epn05306
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-03-14-mn-3138-story.html
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1078958/moses-exodus-red-sea-parting-radiocarbon-mapping-mount-thera-tsunami
That should help you for a start. And its a slap in the face for the people who insist that these are just myths.
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Clay Serenbetz
This new theory is very compelling and is much more probable than theories advanced in ancient literature (e.g., the Bible), which were written when scientific understanding was less than rudimentary and when God was used as a tool to suppress freedom among the plebeian masses.
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John P Maher
IT BECAME WASHINGTON D. C., HEY SHANGO WHEN CAN YOU VISIT THE CAPITAL or WERE YOU THERE ???
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Rev Mark D
Why no reference?
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Chaplain Shawn
So, here is another interesting topic headed with two nonbelieving views disrespecting the ancient manuscript for laughs and to troll for emotional responses. The historical account of Sodom and Gomorrah are mentioned in Genesis 19. The Thomas Jefferson Bible (TJB) is not a work on theology. It is a supportive and philosophical account of Jesus. The TJB is not an authoritative source of theology. It was an account of valuable philosophies of great thinkers from ancient times like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Jesus is also mentioned. The TJB reads as various accounts, but does not specifically mention all the historical events / prophecy that the Bible does.
To understand the destruction of the two cities, one needs to consider the biblical account. As the article points out, it was not a good day for either city. Abraham was told by God these two cities would be destroyed, and they were as the biblical account states. So science confirms what history has already told, and faith and reason are in harmony / balanced. Beyond pride, homosexuality, and evil acts; both cities also lusted after strange flesh which could include angelic figures and animals. Unfortunately, the secular refuse to research in some fields or areas. So, science will have to catch up with ancient history to tell the tale of these miracles and wonders.
Respectfully,
Minister / Chaplain Sean, MA Apologetics & DD Chaplaincy
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Shaun, I've heard that angel goes good on toasted rye, with horse radish and mustard. Bon apetit!
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Russ
As a true minister I don't need science to explain it. The bible doesn't lie!
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Lionheart
Yep the Bible doesn't lie, unicorns are real, a serpent and an ass could literally speak, woman was born from the rib of a man, a whale swallowed a man that has a throat no bigger than a baseball, and a person that wasn't in the Garden of Gethsemane wrote a detailed account of Jesus sweating drops of blood from every pore as he conversed with his imaginary father in heaven. I'll ignore the stories/tales of supposed miracles written decades later by people who were never present at said events.
What's actually frightening about all this is that millions, possibly billions, actually believe this, and many are in government running countries controlling our lives.
🦁♥️
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John D. Partin
Yeah, you are right, it's much better when millions of lunatic fringe Trumpophiles here or Nazis in Germany or Communists in Russia or elsewhere are imposing their guy and will on the rest of us in government and their lies are accepted as "truth", while rejecting all other ideas, beliefs, and statements as "lies"!! Nobody expects an architectural textbook to be a recipe book or a musical instrument guidebook to be a travelogue. Many other books, such as Aesop's Fables, Norse or any other mythology books, plays, or other fictional works, which are meant to relate morals, aren't dismissed as "worthless" or "not even any good at relating morals" because they aren't literally true. The Bible isn't a history book or scientific manual or to be taken literally, either, since it is for the purpose of teaching morals, which aren't what some people have put into God's mouth or attributed to Him. Where God speaks for Himself in the Bible, and not through someone's claiming to be "His spokesman", He teaches "Love your neighbor as yourself", "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you", "Inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me", and 1 Corinthians 13 (the Love chapter). So, it is as ridiculous, hypocritical, and illogical to reject the Bible because it doesn't serve other purposes than its own, as it would be to do that to any other book that doesn't serve other purposes than its own. The Bible is like a gold mine, but gold mines aren't solid gold all the way through and the gold has to be dug out of them. They are mostly rocks and dirt, and the Bible is mostly the "rocks and dirt" of human opinions, prejudices, and made up stories, and the truth has to be dug out of it, too, and it is no more "worthless" because that is the case than a gold mine is. It doesn't matter if anyone was literally there to record Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, Noah was actually swallowed by a whale, there were actually unicorns, or any of the stories in the Bible are literally true because they are only meant to relate spiritual truths, which they do, to those with eyes to see. God is love, which isn't imaginary.
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Lionheart
Wow....three months later and you are still reading my posts to comment. Whatever it is you have said here, please continue, you are seriously building my ego. I obviously mean a lot to you. Clearly, I am getting through, that's the intent. Thank you so much.
🦁♥️
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John D. Partin
You aren't the only person that I'm responding to in here and it takes a while to get around to everything in here, and so you are hardly the main focus of my attention. I believe that you are already too infatuated with and entranced by yourself for anyone else's attention to you to be necessary to your greatly overblown ego!! But go ahead and tell yourself whatever lies and delusions float your boat, as you always do, anyway!! You aren't important to me or anyone else, but only to yourself!! Your wrong thinking is all that I care about fighting, to keep it from infecting anyone else or more people than it has already infected!! Come down off yourself and view yourself realistically and humbly!!
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Rev Mark D
Forget Lion, he's a jerk narcissist who doesn't believe the bible anyway, because if he did, he's going to Hell per the bible anyway for what he's done.
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Lionheart
You are so right Mark. He's beyond hope and not even worth responding to anymore. By the amount of words he uses in an attempt to logically reply we obviously are living in his head BIG time rent free. He must spend literally hours putting it all together whatever he says. Ive stopped reading his comments, its not worth my time. It's actually quite sad when you think about it, but fortunately, some people are at last starting to wake up. I doubt he will ever be one of them but there is always hope. 🤷🏻♂️
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John D. Partin
"Rev" Mark was talking about you, CHL, and calling you a jerk narcissist, who doesn't believe the Bible, anyway, because if you did, you're going to Hell per the Bible, anyway, for what you have done". Read his post again and understand it!!! As for the rest of your post, it is just more thinly veiled pleading for me to send you more Christian instruction, which you can't get enough of, and to help you draw closer to God faster and be transformed into a new creation and reclaimed and reformed!! We will get you back on the right path very soon, my son!!
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Lionheart
🤣 Try and have yourself a wonderful festive Yuletide season.
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John D. Partin
Try and come to know the reason for the season, which isn't just the solstice, but the Person Who died for you and all of us out of love for us!! Merry Christmas (Christ's Mass, in case you didn't know) to you, too!
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John D. Partin
Try to find out the reason for the season, which isn't just a time of year and the solstice, since that doesn't do anything for us, but He who died for all of our sins out of love for us!! Merry Christmas (Christ's Mass, in case you didn't know)! This being Christmas Eve, it is appropriate to mention the story A Christmas Carol by your countryman Charles Dickens. If a spirit came to you, as Jacob Marley came to Ebenezer Scrooge, and, encountering your skepticism, said "Oh, Man of the Worldly Mind, do you believe in me or not?", would you disbelieve your own eyes and ears, and mock him, Mr. Scrooge?! Do you need three spirits to also escort you back to your past, through the present, and into the future to show you your grave to make you see the errors of your ways? Do you really want to be unreachable and die unrepentant and suffer the consequences of doing so that you bring upon yourself when it is too late to do anything about it? Well, that is enough casting pearls before swine and love and Christmas cheer wasted on an ingrate and hopeless case for now! As Tiny Tim said "God bless us, everyone"!
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John D. Partin
Would you, if you were confronted by a spirit right in front of you and staring you in your face, still deny that it was really there, and was "just an underdone bit of beef", so that it would have to ask you "Oh, Man of the Worldly Mind, do you believe in me or not?". As another man and spirit conversed in a novel by your countryman Charles Dickens called A Christmas Carol. Do you also need to be visited by spirits and taken back to your past, throughout this present, and into your future and shown your grave to try to convince you of the errors of your ways?! Just an appropriate message for you at this Christmas time to show you the reason for the season (Jesus Christ), not the solstice, and hoping that you can figure it out better than you have before any such visitation would be necessary for your reform and reclamation and before it is too late for you!! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
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Lionheart
Hope you had a wonderful festive Yuletide John, with lots of presents from Santa Claus.
Spoiler Alert: You might want to talk to someone about Santa Claus. I know you have strong beliefs about so many things that are hard for you to come to terms with, but It's not for me to tell you, but please make sure you are sitting down when they talk to you about him.
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John D. Partin
You have, at least, one person here ("Rev. Mark D below), who has been taken in and fooled by your claim that you are "only baiting me to get me going", though you and I both know better than that and that that is only your cover and pretense, to save face, due to your knowing, too, that I'm baiting you to keep you coming back for more Christian instruction and for your outward reclamation and reform. You don't actually believe in any of that atheist nonsense that you spout in here, and have actually been converted already to Christianity, but can't come right out and admit it because it would make you seem "weak" and "ridiculous" to the other people here. Still, you will get over that soon and be forthrightly believing and proclaiming Christ for all to see and hear there and read in the blog here, since you know your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ's words that "If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my Father in Heaven" and so can't go on with your pretentiousness too long. I will continue teaching and preaching to you about Christ, as you so strongly desire me to do, until you can muster the strength and courage to come out with your actual belief in Christ here and over there through your constant prayers to God!! Those prayers will be answered!! Until then, we will keep up your pretence and charade here!! This will just be between you and I.
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flugo
fartin': As usual, your blather represents the raving ramblings of a pseudo-intellectual trying, in vain, to appear informative, wise.
In your 18 Dec 21 diatribes, you intimate that God's theme is love, tolerance, compassion, etc. It's another of your examples of perpetuating a lop-sided, biased, unbalanced viewpoint of an situation, while ignoring the core issue.
God hates! His wrath is hovering over (Romans 1:18, John 3:35) categories of people and sin in general. The wicked Psalm 7:11,11:5; the coveters Psalm 10:31; the evildoers Psalm 5:5; the false witnesses Proverbs 6:19.
The only Way for us to escape the righteous judgement of a holy God is to repent of our sinful lifestyle and look to Jesus as our only Savior.
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John D. Partin
Flugo Marx, by the way, how long is it since you have talked with any of your brothers (Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Zeppo, and Gummo), in your "mind", at least, but I won't spoil it for you! You were offered the choice before of going along with the crowd's stoning the woman caught in adultery or Jesus' forgiving her and telling her not to sin anymore, and you didn't go along with them stoning her, though that is rebuking, judging, and hating sin, as you say that we should do. Are you now in favor of sinners' being stoned to death?!! Make up your "mind" because you can't have it both ways! You have a lopsided, biased, unbalanced viewpoint of all HATE!!! and "think" that God is as hateful as you are or far more so!!!, but He isn't and wants to love and forgive people. Nobody has ever been hated into repenting of their sins and becoming a better person and returning to God or the Inquisitors and witch burners would have been bringing more people back to God and repentance than all the Billy Grahams, Joyce Meyers, and evangelists and preachers that ever lived put together, instead of only torturing and killing people!! "I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that he turn from his wicked ways and live, saith the Lord". But if God were all about hate, as you claim, it would read "I take great pleasure in the death of the wicked, so that they can start being tortured forever in Hell!!". Jesus came to love people into repentance and going to Heaven, not try to hate them into doing it, which can't be done. If you think that it can be done that way, go out right now and start screaming at people on the streets (instead of only screaming at people in this blog!), and cursing and raging at them and telling them what rotten sinners they all are, and see how many people you get to repent of their sins---and not, actually, how many beatings, black eyes, busted lips, knocks on your head, fractured skulls, brain injuries, teeth knocked out, broken ribs and arms and anything else that they can break on you, fractures, and internal damage that you can get because PEOPLE DON'T LIKE OTHER PEOPLE BEING HATEFUL TOWARD THEM!!! and those who do so do it at their own risk!!! And that isn't the way to reach people, anyway, and isn't doing unto others as you would have others to do unto you. Again, people can't be hated into better behavior or repentance, but only loved into it. But if you still insist that we have to hate sinners, instead of loving them and just hating sin and reaching people through love, you have the examples of the Inquisitors, witch burners, lynch mobs, Nazis, Klansmen, vigilantes, and crowd that wanted to stone the adulterous woman before you: Go and do thou likewise!!! It's either Christ's way of love and forgiveness or these unforgiving and hateful people's way. Which is it? You can't have it both ways!!
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John D. Partin
Flugo Marx, I see that you are still at your childish and immature name-calling and haven't figured out yet how stupid that is!! You are the pseudo-intellectual and lopsided, biased, and unbalanced person here, and think that hate is "being intellectual" and that God is as hateful as you are or even more so!! Jesus came to save sinners and convince and win them through love, not hate them! Nobody has ever been hated into repentance or becoming a better person!! That is ridiculous!! The Scriptures say "God is love"! So, do you think that the Scriptures are "lopsided, biased, and unbalanced", too, in their definition of God because of a few other verses that advocate hate, the same as the Inquisitors and witch burners did?!! Hating people, as you do, is also a sin and so you deserve to be hated for that sin, too, by your own standard!! Either follow Christ's way of love and forgiveness or the Inquisitors, witch burners, and Pharisees' way of hate, rebuking, and judgment----and then go out and start stoning people to death for their sins, as they did, because you can't have it both ways!!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The bible is nothing but a lie Russ, and so are you and your worthless scumbag god!!!
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Russ
As a true minister I don't need science to say what happen . I already know (Bible doesn't lie)
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Russ and Jesus sitting in a tree k-i-s-s-i-n-g!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
When you see Jesus, Russ, tell him I said thanks for last night. He gives head even better than a Catholic priest!
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John D. Partin
Carl Bernard Elfstrom, why would you make such a sick and disgusting remark about Jesus' "performing a sex act on you", who has done nothing against you at all and shouldn't be hated and mocked for what other people have done in His name, since He isn't responsible for any of that and any rotten things that they did are against His teaching and example?!! Do you Wiccans or Pagans have any morality at all, since that isn't evident from your hateful remark here and isn't doing unto others as you would have others do unto you?!! You seem to think that any sick or obnoxious comment that you feel like making is the same thing as its being funny, but it isn't and especially not in this case!! Such "great comedic talent" as you think that you have shouldn't be wasted on those of us here in this blog, but should be taken out on the road and booked into all the comedy clubs, so that you could be the "next great stand-up comedian" and fulfill your "potential"!! A word of warning, though, and don't try that Jesus' material in front of a live audience because some of them might do much more than write a post to you condemning it!!!
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Rev Nolan
I don’t believe this theory one bit. I believe strongly in the Sumerian Anunnaki war story and their version of the Sodom and Gomorrah tragedy. There’s sufficient evidence proving that the Sumerian record is quite accurate.
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Roger Scott Gilbert
true
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Rev Mark D
Thanks, will start on my homework. Always appreciate opportunities to learn something new.
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Anisahoni
O my, someone who has been studying Sitchin's works along with others. It is suspected that the Vatican stopped production of the film: https://youtu.be/eo7SWzx6M0c Interview of the writer/roducer: https://youtu.be/yROe6r3QFco
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Br'er George
God from the Bible did it, says so in the Bible.
Angels warned Lot too then BLAMMO!
That's what happened, Bible says so and science just explained God used a space rock to do it.
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Br'er George
And He didn't wackem because they were a buncha homos either!
People who don't read, know or understand the Bible need to stop saying that because you don't know what you're talking about.
Ezekiel explained why God put the KABLAM! on them:
‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom:
She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
They were haughty and did detestable things before me.
Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Nothing to do with being a homo see?
Although trying to rape a couple of Angels probably counted as "detestable things" and I would concur.
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Darrell Hebert
Exactly.
The perfect word of God❤️
I encourage all skeptics to read the Bible, and experience the love and Peace that a relationship with Him through his Son Jesus can bring. 🙏🏻
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Lionheart
I did that Darrell and that's why I am now a secular humanist. I also encourage everyone to read it and when you apply logical thought, mixed with a certain amount of reasonable intelligence you will come to the obvious conclusion what a load of mythical rubbish it is.
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John D. Partin
Is that the same "logical thought, mixed with a certain amount of reasonable intelligence" that makes you believe that a mindless universe can, somehow, still come up with super-intelligent laws and interconnection of them for its own operation, which all the geniuses in history put together couldn't do, and that prayers that are answered with people's receiving what they asked for "weren't answered by anyone because there isn't anyone to answer them and they are just coincidence", which you say about no other cases of people's getting what they ask for?!! That "logical thought" and "reasonable intelligence"?!! When you can't, obviously, put that together and figure out the whole universe's reason for being here any better than that, which is clear to anyone who actually thinks about it that it didn't come up with itself and doesn't maintain itself without a mind behind it, why would anyone believe you about the Bible, either, when the actual Word of God in it, of love, is clearly different from the human rocks and dirt in it? But you just lump it all together and throw the baby out with the bathwater! Very "logical" (that is, stupid!) procedure!! Reading the Bible deeply to see the deeper love of God there brings people closer to Him and Christianity, while reading it superficially, as you and other atheists do, seeing only the surface human rocks and dirt in it, drives people out of the Church.
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ServantOfJudgement
@lionheart Interesting, that's what I did. It converted me to a believer live. By the time i reached Romans i realized i believed. No preacher, no church, no pressure groups, just searching for the most logical explanation of man and the circumstances were caught up in. Before I read the Bible I researched all other credible explanations for decades and found them all as impossible as a God creating it with a word. For fun, let's see what happens to USA now that we're approaching the same destination as several corrupt civilizations God says he will destroy when they do what we're doing. The proof you've been asking for may rear it's ugly head.
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Lionheart
I think I'd settle for him actually showing up to settle things, and cure mankind's problems, much like I would, if I had a child of mine wandering around searching for the reality that I existed. Thanks for your thoughts 🤗
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David Arthur Lewis
And now, the rest of the story... https://www.yahoo.com/news/forget-meteor-talking-biblical-rape-090727328.html
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David Arthur Lewis
Obviously Lord Flying Spaghetti Monster dropped a meatball.
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
God smote Sodom and Gemorrah for the wickedness of the inhabitants walking around the city wearing masks! This wickedness caused their brains to be starved of oxygen, so God had to smite them all to allow other cities to survive without diminished intelligence.
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Rev Mark D
Personally I think they don't like masks because the backwash reminds them they need to brush their damn teeth.
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Rev. B
Teeth? Plural?!?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
However Mark, wearing masks is an excellent way of not having to show off knarly teeth, and an excellent reason to not have to buy dentures. Out of sight, out of mind.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
To get revenge for this God killing the people today who are not wearing masks. Science has shown us wearing masks and physical distancing prevents the spread of covid and prevents pregnancies.
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Roger Scott Gilbert
Anyone wearing a mask or falling for the depopulation agenda has diminished capacity in the first place! The creator supplied us with built in protection. It's called an immune system.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
God also provided us with the knowledge of herbs and nutrients to improve our immune systems, Roger.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
As a self-identified expert, regarding the real USA’s patriotic Thomas Jefferson Bible (used exclusively by those who “really” appreciate the wisdom of the USA Constitution) and as a ULC Bishop for more than 40 years, I can State, with a great degree of certainty, that a fire took place, at Sodom and Gomorrah, but it wasn’t caused by the Christian God, because there’s no evidence whatsoever, that the Christian God ever existed.
But it can be proved that the Secular Humanist Pantheist “actual-real” God exists — because the SHP God is the synonymous with nature — and everyone alive, who doesn’t live alone in a cave, knows that nature (aka, God) exists.
The fire was caused, and you can quote me in this regard, by a milkmaid, who kicked over a full bucket of milk, which resulted in the fire, that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
And, you can bet your mortgage on this.
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David Arthur Lewis
You crack me up! You're the funniest evangelist on the internet! Thomas Jefferson's Novel. Wow, and I thought Rev. Moon was wacko.
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John D. Partin
William Dusenberry, the universe exists and that is the proof that God exists because the universe didn't create itself, which is an impossibility, and so it had to have been created by a Power greater than it. That is God. Nature didn't create itself and so it isn't God, either. God couldn't not exist and is self-existent. Many people, such as yourself, want nature to be God because God gets in the way of what you want to do and how you want to "think" and live, as He did for the Nazis and Communists and other worldly sin loving people down through history, and so they said and say "Let's make something else 'God' for us that doesn't make any demands on us or get in our way!" and so set up their false idols and substitute "gods". The ancient Israelites fleeing Egypt with Moses made an image of a golden calf to worship, while Moses was on the mountain top speaking with God and getting the Ten Commandments. The revolutionaries and assembly of the French Revolution made a prostitute their idol and called her "the Goddess of Reason"! This is an old practice and story in the human race, and is as wrong every time that it happens now as it was for those Israelites and French Revolution participants!! As for your feeble and sad attempt at "humor" again, quite obviously, you have Sodom and Gomorrah mixed up in your head with Chicago, but it was a lantern that a milk maid in a barn kicked over to start the Chicago fire and not a bucket of milk, since a bucket couldn't logically cause a fire anywhere by being kicked over! The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was caused by God's destroying them, which you only come up with your unfunny "explanations" of to avoid facing that fact!!
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Katelynne Shouse
Makes more sense than anything previously put forth......
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Nicholas J Page
3,600 years ago hm if it did happen why has it taken this long to explain about Soddom and Gomorrah.Also how accurate is the information passed from generation to generation.Surely some bits would be left out or forgotten or bits added which may not be true.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Some are slower than others, Nicholas. Especially when it comes to making up new goobly gob about fictitious, biblical stories.
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Those cities made their wealth by selling salt. Actually Potassium Nitrate. Salt is salt by any other name. You soak your meat in a salt brine. Over time those mines shafts perter out and were filled in with trash. It was only a matter of time that some one dump in hot coals and the results were a big boom. A act of God or just plain being stupid.