"How would Jesus kill an animal? That's the fundamental question asked in a new documentary making the case that Jesus was in fact a vegetarian and would not have endorsed the killing and eating of animals.
The powers-that-be have been trying to suppress this story for centuries, say the filmmakers, who characterize this revelation as "the biggest coverup in the last 2,000 years."
Drawing on biblical interpretation and historical evidence, the documentary, titled "Christspiracy: The Spirituality Secret," presents the case that Jesus’s diet did not include animals – and he instead was a strong believer in animal ethics.
Originally intended to be released on Netflix, the filmmakers split from the streaming company after a disagreement over redactions they were asked to make. The filmmakers said they didn’t agree with the cuts, explaining: “we feel they are vital to the narrative, especially around Christ."
The Case for a Vegetarian Jesus
The idea of Jesus being a vegetarian does indeed challenge centuries-old beliefs about his lifestyle and teachings. One of the central arguments of the film is rooted in Jesus's teachings against animal sacrifice.
An example cited in the documentary is the cleansing of the temple, as depicted in the Gospels. This narrative includes famous scenes of Jesus tipping over tables and expelling the money changers.
But the film argues that this story is misunderstood – claiming the temple in question was actually operating as a commercial slaughterhouse, which Jesus opposed. In cleansing this space, he was taking a dramatic stance of compassion towards all living beings.
"The fact that four days before he was crucified, he goes in and shuts down the temple to basically stop animal sacrifice … he was one of the most hardcore animal activists, the 'OG' animal activist," argues Kip Anderson, one of the filmmakers.
And they're far from the only people making this claim. Some online activists have been arguing this point for years:
But the film's argument goes even further – the filmmakers insist that the crucifixion itself was an act of protest against animal cruelty. The film posits that this famous event was not just about Jesus sacrificing his life for his fellow man, "but to stop the killing of animals as well."
In another section of the film, activist Keith Akers cites early sources that indicate James, the brother of Jesus, and John the Baptist (Jesus’s cousin) were both vegetarian. In that sense, "Jesus is simply carrying on the family tradition," Akers says.
Vegetarian Sects of Christianity
But where else does this theory stem from? There must be more to the story than speculation about the cleansing of the temple and vegetarian relatives.
Further grounding the hypothesis is evidence of early sects of Christianity that held similar pro-animal beliefs.
The documentary highlights the Ebionites, a Jewish-Christian sect that originated around the first century CE and were known for practicing vegetarianism. The Ebionites portrayed Jesus as an adversary of animal sacrifice and abstained from eating lamb during Passover. They held other curious beliefs; according to the 4th-century bishop Epiphanius, who criticized the Ebionites, the group also rejected the divinity of Christ.
The film contends that the Ebionites – along with several other early Christian sects, called the Nazoraeans and the Nasaraeans – trace their origins to this early movement that saw Christ as a vegetarian.
This belief structure, which hinges on the idea that Jesus opposed the slaughter and consumption of animals, is viewed as the most authentic version of Christianity by many proponents of the “Jesus was a vegetarian” theory.
Is There More Biblical Evidence?
Sort of. Supporters cite further scriptural references, including passages of the Old Testament that critique animal sacrifice, as well as John the Baptist’s preferences for baptism over killing animals.
They also cite Jesus himself, quoting the prophet Hosea, when he told the Pharisees "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" Matthew 9: 9-13.
"It’s so overwhelmingly obvious when you see this all put together that not only did he not eat animals, that this Nazarene movement he was part of were fiercely against killing animals," the filmmaker Anderson says.
Beyond this film, Anderson has directed a series of conspiracy-themed documentaries, including “Cowspiracy: The Sustainability Secret,” “What the Health,” and “Seaspiracy.”
Wait, Didn’t Jesus Eat Fish and Lamb?
Maybe not. Proponents of this theory question famous biblical tales like John 6: 1-14, in which Jesus multiplies the loaves and fishes, calling them metaphors – or perhaps even mistranslations.
"It becomes obvious that in full context, the story is that God’s creatures are to be protected and honored and that we have fallen away when we don’t do that," the filmmakers insist.
The documentary also features interviews with experts who argue Jesus did not consume lamb at The Last Supper, as is commonly understood.
But that’s not the only potential misconception about the most legendary dinner party of all time.
Read More: Busting Myths About Breaking Bread: Everything You Think You Know About the Last Supper is Wrong
There is also considerable evidence that Jesus was not a white man, as was commonly depicted in Western art for centuries. In fact, there likely wasn’t a single white person in the Bible…
So, for those who celebrate: if you’re reaching for a slice of ham this Easter Sunday, we’re not saying you shouldn’t eat it… but if this potential cover up makes you think twice, well, we also can’t blame you.
120 comments
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Dean Edward Cunningham
Jesus was a vegetarian? God does not want people to harm animals? Utter nonsense. Read the Old Testament. God asks for animal sacrifices more than four score and ten times. Jesus himself filled more than one fisherman’s net with hundreds of fish. None of God’s commandments condemn the killing of animals. His chosen people the Israelites were specifically instructed on which animals were clean to kill and consume. One could say God consumed tens of thousands of animals Himself through the sacrificial offerings to Him by the Israelites. To say God and Jesus were against the killing of animals for food or sacrifice is complete and utter nonsense. Be well. Be blessed. Give thanks and enjoy a delicious steak on the BBQ. Amen.
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RAYMOND BENITEZ
Are women allowed in the ministry? Are women pastors allowed to preach? What does the Scripture say about women in the church? These are controversial questions within Christianity.
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Donna May Evans
For a number of years I attended University Lutheran ELCA in GNV FL. Pastor Jack guided my exploration of multiple faiths. I was a Co Teacher for HS Sunday School.
One Lent we got into some heavy discussions. Jesus was Devine yes, he also was a normal Human Male growing up in a time were 'Family' was a crucial part of being Human.
Some may know where I am going with this.
Yes I believe he had a mate & Children. After the crucifixion some were transported away from danger for safety reasons. It's Logical.
Water into Wine. Alchemist
Healing with Laying of Hands. Eastern Medicine, Homeopathic.
Food. Clean Eating, yes meat for what did the cave humans eat. Hunters & Gatherers.
Drink. Definitely Wine, Beer, both were developed for Medicinal purposes. I was an Army Pharmacy Tech.
Celibacy was brought to the Christian Church not by Jesus.
Oh the Manger, I'll save that til later in the year.
Peace Be Amen A'ho Blessed Be ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
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JaZe
'The Essene Gospel of Peace' book translated from a 3rd century aramaic manuscript goes on at length about Jesus vegetarianism.
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Nova Kali
I'm sorry, but humans really need to be educated in symbolism and etymology. This has to be the most ridiculous waste and more manipulated yet. Religions, your time us up.
Positive note, you are breaking down the illusion and letting the fmtrue ministry to do its work
Poppy's Field Project Ministry
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Rev. Daley
If my recollection of the movie, "The Ten Commandments" serves me correctly, weren't the door frames smeared with lamb's blood to protect the first-borns from the mist of death? Sounds sacrificial to me.... :-)
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Rev. Michael Gerraghty II
Nailed it perfectly!
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Lionheart
I blame Charlton Heston 🤭
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Colleen McAllister
What a bunch of garbage. Non believers will say anything to get true believers upset and cause them to doubt. Jesus was not a vegetarian. I see that nobody considered poultry. Quail in the desert anyone,? God did not tell us to stop sacrifices, He simply said He despised them if your heart wasn't in the right place. Eating meat was not and is not a sin. Jesus ate what every other pious Jewish man ate at that time. Including meat.
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Rev. Michael Gerraghty II
What about the instructions he gave to Moses at the beginning of Leviticus ? That's a contradiction if he disliked animal sacrifices.
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Lionheart
Did Moses really exist then? There’s as much demonstrable evidence of his reality as there is with Jesus, even though it’s possible they did exist,……or didn’t. 🤗
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Lionheart
Thank you Lady Colleen for telling us what you know he ate 2000 years ago. Your mediumship talents, tapping into the dead, are incredible. Did he add any gravy, and did he like his meat rare, medium, or well done? Also, did he have boiled potatoes, or did he prefer French Fries with his meals, if they had those back then. I can guarantee he had Bread Pudding for dessert after he’d broke bread. 🤭
Oh….and while you’re tapping into your spiritual realm, what type/blend of wine did he like?
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
FFS…seriously?!?
This is THEIR own book RIGHT at the fg BEGINNING…easily Googled, plus MULTIPLE other passages.
There’s even instructions on how to cook and consume THE FG MEAT.
I don’t even read this crap but I KNOW this is in there.🙄
I’m so sick of stupid people these days.
Exodus 12:
“The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 "This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year.
3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to TAKE A LAMB for his family, one for each household.
4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what EACH PERSON WILL EAT.
5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats.
6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of THE COMMUNITY OF ISRAEL MUST SLAUGHTER THEM at twilight.
7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses WHERE THEY EAT THE LAMBS
8 That same night THEY ARE TO EAT THE MEAT ROASTED OVER FIRE, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
9 DO NOT EAT THE MEAT RAW OR COOKED IN WATER, but roast it over the fire--head, legs and inner parts.
10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it.
11 THIS IS HOW YOU ARE TO EAT IT: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the LORD's Passover.
12 "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn--both men and animals--and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt. 14 This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD--a lasting ordinance.”
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Brennan N Lippert
Romans 14:6 Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
To abstain from meat is a good thing, if it is done in the service of announcing the coming of God on earth and the eternal resurrection in which we all will be conjoined following death. However, as well, to partake of the flesh is no evil, should it be done in the service of that same ultimate good.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Jesus was not a vegan. Cut the nonsense. He ate lamb, bread, and drank wine.
Even more, he demanded cannibalism & vampirism of his followers.
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Gary Young
Which Jesus? There've been so many. And sect's are numerous, I guess some have worshipped a vegan Jesus. Choose your Jesus, perhaps you can customise your own.
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David Jonathan Bauman
And this is the problem with this kind of stuff. You can't say, "I can prove it by the Bible!" And then say, "Oh yeah but no, he didn't server the disciples bread and fish when he came back from the dead. I mean, sure, it says that in John 21, but that's not what it means"
This approach is no better than the cherry picking that what I've heard the evangelical fundamentalists doing in their preaching all my life. If a solid case can be made for it, I'm willing to listen, but I've seen nothing in this article that leads me to believe it's not just another group trying to say that their interpretation is the right one.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
People are always going to interpret religious writings in a way that supports their own preferences. One can interpret any text that is at all philosophical in a myriad of ways. Looking at food history, which is empirical but incomplete, can help clarify a little, but historians too are subject to a lot of cultural bias.
I think squabbling over details like this is very distracting from the bigger picture and does nothing to support core tenets of love, community and compassion toward humankind.
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Miriam Gates
I don’t believe he was a vegetarian. He fed the 5000 with fish and bread he multiplied.
There is also a story where a disagreement regarding what was clean and unclean to eat and in the vision a sheet was let down with all kinds of animals and fish. God told him to take and eat… God created animals for man not man for animals
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Donna May Evans
I'm sure he was.
He also was a normal Human Male.
It us ridiculous to think he did not have a Mate. Probably Chidren also. Everyone had children back then. Christians Need to Get Realalistic.
Changing Water to Wine. ALCHEMIST
Should I continue.
The Manger !!!!
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ServantOfJudgement
Most normal human males aren't vegans. I've never met one but I hear Hollywood has a few of them sneaking around.
When I change water into wine it takes me about 6 months and a load of fruit. I was never able to do it just by touching a carboy of water.
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Keith Law
Sorry for the pun, but this is all hogwash!
Jesus was a practicing Jew who followed Old Testament kosher eating rules and regulations. According to the epistles, during the generation after Jesus, Peter introduced the eating of pork for early Christians. That’s because they desperately needed to recruit pagans to their sect. This began the paganization of the Jewish based religion that included the end of circumcision, and turning Jesus into a Greco-Roman demigod (part god/part human) like Romulus and Achilles.
Of course this all assumes that the New Testament expresses what occurred at the time, which, after all the translations from non professional scribes and then Roman scribes before the Medieval scribes got their hands on it, well, it’s dubious at best.
But even if we do accept its veracity for the sake of argument, Jesus and his followers would all have been Jews practicing Jewish law regarding their food.
Of course!
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Thomas P. Davis
Where do you see that Peter at pork? The bible says that those eating swines flesh will not be in heaven. Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
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Victor Allen Hawthorne
Is eating meat sin in the eyes of God? I think not. Even if Jesus chose not to eat meat, it doesn't mean his followers couldn't. I would say, he ate what was presented to him in their travels. The whole point of his coming was about the will of the Father, not his choice of food.
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Amber Fry
I doubt it but people will believe what they want to about him. I mean just look at how the MAGA folks are twisting things.
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Farajallah Michael Yazbek
Since Jesus was unable to disobey God, he partook in the sacrifices offered at the Temple, including the Passover sacrifices, which included sacrificing lambs in order to put the blood on the doors of the homes of the Jewish faithful in commemoration of the original Passover. After the sacrifices, we are commanded to eat the meat of the animals for the first and second days, but to bury anything left over on the third day. This is part of the Mosaic Laws in the Torah. Third, when the apostles were fishing after Jesus was resurrected, they saw him on the shore and he told them to cast their nets on the other side of the boat. When they couldn't bring the net in easily their eyes were opened and they recognized him immediately and rushed to the shore. Jesus had a fire going and was eating a fish and a honeycomb. He fasted regularly in order to cleanse his body and purify for the feasts, which was required by the Hebrew faith. We still observe these fasts in the Orthodox Christian Church. But we certainly do know that Jesus did, indeed, eat meat because of the requirements of the laws of the sacrifice. He was fulfilling that requirement when he instituted the Eucharist, mixing the water with the wine (as was the custom of the day to reduce alcohol's effects), and then broke the bread and commanded us to eat, for this is "my body which is broken for you for the remission of sins," and to "drink, this is the blood of my covenant, which is shed for you for the remission of sins." So the blood, commemorating the Passover, and the body, which fulfills the requirement to eat the sacrificed animal, is VERY traditional. Don't let anyone tell you what Jesus ate was not meat. There are too many descriptions in the Gospels that say otherwise, as well as in the Epistles of Paul and Peter.
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Thomas P. Davis
Jesus was fully capable of disobeying God, otherwise His sacrifice for us would have been totally useless. That is why the devil tried so hard to get Him to sin. The devil even offered Him the kingdoms of the world to sin. So, if he got him to sin, His sacrifice would not have been accepted by His father and we would have no life here after. The other sad note is that since Jesus was fully God and fully man, His divinity could not die, and He would be confined to this earth under the control of satan never to return to His position in heaven.
The Eucharist as you call it, if you look into it uses unleavened bread because yeast is a symbol of sin and Jesus had no sin in Him. The wine too was non-alcoholic because alcoholic wine has yeast in it which is a symbol of sin and since His body had no sin, neither did His blood. In fact, that is how REAL champagne is made, after the alcoholic wine has fermented, they add a little more sugar and bottle it. The gas that the little yeast farts out produce the bubbles.
Yes, Jesus ate meat. He ate it in the Old Testament and the New Testament, both before and after His resurrection.
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Lisa Miller
They must believe there was a farmer's market or whole foods every 10 feet back then. Jesus wandered the desert for much of his life.
Also are the loaves and the fishes being completely ignored or are they saying that part was misunderstood and it was actually grains and rices.
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Carrie JoHelena Meyer
Perhaps the biblical figure was against animal sacrifice. That's a helluva waste of resources. The Jesus portrayed in the bible would want us to stop obsessing over what he ate and just be nicer humans. Finally, does any truly sentient being who has received a grade school education actually believe Jesus was white? (What was that addition about, non sequitur?)
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Thomas P Norton
really people the bible says in hundreds of references gathering of fish takeing of them out to cast yheir nets what they casting in to the sea to catch kelp or the killing sheep for sacrifisal food sorry dond distort the bible take it for face value
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Thomas P Norton
so why would god give us as man and woman all the animals onland and sea for food and give instructions as to witch ones we could eat and witch we are not to eat?
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Thomas P. Davis
The ones he created to be the garbage disposals of the planted are created differently. So, all the diseases on the decaying meat doesn't kill them. They keep the planet clean, so we don't succumb to it.
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ServantOfJudgement
It's interesting that 4000 years before the FDA and CDC said avoid seafood that contains heavy metals a book said it first without an explanation as to why. Only don't do it.
There are literally countless very minute occurrences of recently discovered scientific facts that were laid down as truth or law 4000 years ago.
The atheist must ignore and dismiss this amazing and repeating phenomenon to remain true to his faith.
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Thomas P. Davis
They claim when you look at some peoples joints under a microscope that have arthritis, you will see trichina larva from pork. it apparently escalated years ago, when someone had the bright idea that the worm found its way into the pigs from the garbage being fed to them. Someone came up with the bright idea that if you stop feeding them garbage and switch to grain, they won't have them. Then you don't need to cook it at the high heat that used to be recommended to kill them and you could lower the heat and improve the taste, thus the pig industry went wild with all the ads for the other white meat. I have heard that if you heavily salt it and cook it under very low heat, you will see the little buggers come out. My friend here also seen on the internet you can put it in a pan and pour cook on it.
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Steven Ferrell
Good grief. Is that how low vegetarians have gotten trying to force people to go with what they want.
If you don’t like meat, don’t eat meat. I prefer meat and will eat meat. To me vegetables taste nasty, but for those who love them, enjoy.-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
If veganism is so good, why do they make those fake burgers taste like meat? And why do we have canine teeth and incisors? God made us to eat meat.
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Thomas P. Davis
There are many no meat-eating animals in the world, with those same teeth. Gorillas for example.
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Daniel Gray
WRONG, Gorillas do eat meat just like Chimps do, they just dont eat it all the time. Gorillas are omnivores which means they will eat anything they can get their hands on. Insects, eggs, small lizards, etc.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Please eat some veggies along with your meat, it's not healthy to leave those out either.
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Wayne Charles Paul
No, they were not vegetarians. They kept the Passover, which of course meant that they ate Lamb!
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Raymond David Cook
No one can actually prove one way or the other but what concerns me is how he tries to use the Bible to prove his theory while at the same time discrediting the Bible when it contradicts his theory. This points out that he doesn't really have a legitimate theory but more a basic guess.
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Rev'd Andrew
I love how so many of you are twisting like pretzels over this. What Christspiracy reveals is yet another fatal inconsistency in the core beliefs of Christians. Read Genesis and you'll learn that in Eden there was no death, no killing of animals. Therefore, if we are to be closer to God's plan for us we will only eat the fruit from the trees and the herbs from the ground. Jesus went fishing, and he served fish at the Sermon on the Mount. God wouldn't create a paradise where nothing dies and then come down and serve fish. Ergo, Jesus =/= God.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Thank you for spelling Christspiracy right so I could figure out what it meant. The two mentions of Christ piracy had me wondering what in the world was being pirated.
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Rev'd Andrew
He would have made an amazing pirate. Rather than needing to chase after a ship in a boat, he could have just run from the beach to his target.
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Thomas P. Davis
You are correct in Eden there was no death it was only after Adam and Eve sinned that the first death took place and God created garments of skin to cover Adam and Eve the Bible says that life is in the blood plants do not have blood so there is no life yes that's all we will be eating in the new heaven and Earth
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Cynthia B. Adwell
You can twist it any way you like. But it is extremely doubtful that Jesus was a vegetarian. Starting under Mosaic law, man ate meat. If Jesus, who kept the law, fed others fish, I feel it safe to say He, too, ate fish. He delivered the Temple of money changers, those that sold animals for sacrifice, not because of the animals, but because the people had made the Temple a place of commerce. There is no room within the Temple that God ordained for such a purpose. Therefore, Jesus chased the money changers from there by overturning their tables. If that’s a metaphor, then I would think that the metaphor is the Temple is God’s holy home. Just as we (man) are His dwelling place. To have our bodies become more than God’s dwelling place, is not sanctioned. Therefore, keep His Temple a holy place. Thanks for letting me add my two cents here.
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ServantOfJudgement
Yep, you said it right
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Miriam Gates
I agree with you
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Rev Big Al
Well said
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Thomas P. Davis
It wasn't at the Mosaic law that meat was introduced it was at the time of the flood that was the purpose that the unclean animals went on the ark 2x2 but the clean animals went into the ark by 7. If upon leaving the ark and the clean animals only went in two by two as soon as you ate one of them or sacrificed one of them that species would not be on the Earth today that's one more reason why if you look at the longevity of the lifespan of man it rapidly decreased after the flood as well.
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Nathaniel Joseph Merritt
Jesus was a member of the Qumran Community, near the Dead Sea (he was in fact their Master of Justice, referred to in earlier treatments of this Community "The Teacher of Righteousness"), as was John the Immerser (Baptizer). These were the folks responsible for the Dead Sea scrolls, a truly tedious and pointless read unless one is a Biblical scholar. The Jewish historian Josephus calls those of this Community "Essenes" and yes, they were indeed vegetarians, as all should be if they are serious about their spiritual walk (killing, causing terror-agony-death to other living things is a terrible thing, folks) and their eventual Moksha (deliverance) from the Wheel of Birth-Death-Rebirth and returning to the Godhead or Root and Ground of Being. (Pick a term that YOU prefer.) Every Christian I have ever known has missed the entire point of "Jesus". The real Point is that YOU are God Incarnate, YOU are the Son (or Daughter) of God, YOU it is who is "filled with all the Fullness of God" and it is YOU who shall pour out your life's Blood on your own Cross and you will indeed one day "Cross Over" to the Other Shore and reunite with the Godhead. Now THAT is worth singing and dancing about! Amen.
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Michael Sciulli
Meals fish lamb
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Thomas P. Davis
Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
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David Sanchez jr 2
Im kiels cousin. My palm reads deacon. Any chance me, my babies, family, and guestlist can go to north pole nation with santa.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
@ jr 2 Stop taking that!
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Farajallah Michael Yazbek
LOL
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David Arthur Lewis
No. Jesus was an orthodox Jewish rabbi, not a neo-pagan animal worshipper.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Comment removed by user.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Comment removed by user.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Neopagan does not equal veg/vegan or worshipping animals. Revering nature means understanding the food chain, not condemning it. Being vegetarian or vegan is a personal choice of any Neopagans doing that, not a religious one
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Dawn
Yes he was. Genesis 1:29. And of you see Christpiracy, you’ll find out even more and not just about Christianity. From scholars. Eye-opening. Excellent documentary.
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Thomas P. Davis
Not only did He eat fish with the disciples, He also ate beef. Gen 18:7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
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Lionheart
Interestingly, though there is still very little contemporaneous evidence of Jesus’s existence, there is even less evidence for Abraham’s reality that you quote.
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Thomas P. Davis
If man wrote the bible and it was not the inspired word of God. Then women would not have been involved in spreading the news about the savior being risen. Since women had no value in that society, they could not even be used as witnesses. If the 11 disciples were lying about Jesus, which one of us would continue to perpetrate a lie that would lead us to death. If you rule out what the bible says, and secular history says you have what the old saying says, " A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." All that we are called to do is share the good news, it is the Holy Spirits position to convert.
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Lionheart
Well, it is true of course that mankind is the species of animal that put quill to parchment to create some of those very nice stories, as well as some of those horrific ones involving death, destruction, infanticide, torture, etc., but all authors have done that throughout time.
I remember, as a child, being inspired by the Robin Hood books. Authors of all books use personal inspiration. J.K. Rowland was brilliant at it. As for people writing into their stories a deity, it doesn’t mean to say they were inspired by a fictional human construct called the “Holy Spirit”. I do realize that people like to say it was some sort of “divine experience”, which of course is really no different to what other authors like to have said for creating the Upanishads, Book of Mormon, Qu’ran, Pearl of Great Price, Vedas, Bhagavad Geta, etc,.
We have no idea if those handed down stories from disciples, and others, were true. We do know some of those books were possibly written by the same person due to their similar writing style, even though the book likes to make everyone think that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written by them. We know that to be not true.
Anyway, thank you for your comment, Sir Thomas. 🤗
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Daniel Gray
Well then Lion I guess you want to ignore the Pilate report sent to the Emperor of Rome detailing Jesus life and his Crucifixion and then Pilate stone that clearly shows Pilate was not a made up person either, or the simple fact that there have been bones dug up that clearly show a crucifixion just like in the story of Christs crucifixion. I would say that there is quite a bit more evidence that he existed then you are willing to believe.
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Lionheart
The Report of Pilate to Tiberius, commonly known as the “Anaphora Pilati”, has been classed as an authentic forgery, and possibly written in the second half of the 5th century.
We know crucifixions were a common form of capital punishment back in those days. What we don’t know is if the “story of Christs crucifixion” as you call it, is exactly that…..just a story.
Thank you for your comments, Sir Daniel.
https://shs.hal.science/halshs-01526047#:~:text=In%20it%2C%20the%20governor%20of,by%20various%20early%20Christian%20writers.
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Daniel Gray
Ahhh yes, the supposed expert Anne-Catherine Baudoin who has been refuted and proved wrong more times then Carter has liver spots. The same woman who tried to claim that Nero was a normal human being and that he didnt have relations with his sister or make his Horse a Roman Senator even though every person who has studied Roman History knows this for a fact from the records left. You mean THAT person Lion? And since this was just one of the many different times she has been refuted and proved wrong, you still want to quote her?
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Lionheart
Would you like me to find more, but I guess if I did you will obviously refute them as well, because of your “faith” thingy, which in your eyes is more believable. I bet you still believe in a unicorn and a talking snake….right?🤗
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Daniel Gray
Not my problem is you refuse to believe historical documents. And no I dont believe in a talking snake BUT there are such things as unicorns or what people came to believe was unicorns. So yet again you refuse to believe historical fact, The horse was called There is a breed of horse called the Moyle. It was associated with the early Mormons and further back in history it was found rarely with the Picts (who lived in the british isles) and the Norsemen (also known as Vikings and it was very rare there as well) And all the way from what is now known as paris clear to what is now known as hong kong; the exact history is kind of fuzzy. They have small “protrusions/horns” on their foreheads, above the eyes, that have been said to resemble small horns; don't think like Rhino horns, cow, goat or sheep horns. Did they have magical powers? Nope its just that they were so rare that when people say them they thought they were the creatures in their mythology.
And please go ahead and try and prove Christ didnt exist. As if you can you will be the most famous person in history as you will have been able to bring down Christianity/Judaism/And Islam all with one fell swoop.
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Lionheart
Why don’t you believe in a talking snake, or serpent? How are you picking and choosing what you want to accept as truth from that book of tales/stories.
Can you prove there wasn’t a talking snake, if not, why don’t you believe it?
I can’t prove your Jesus friend, or your particularly god, or even a talking snake didn’t exist, just like you can’t prove they did.
It seems they don’t seem able to prove they are real either, even your “omnipotent” god still hides himself/herself/itself away. Crazy…right? I guess it’s just not capable. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Daniel Gray
And thats my whole point yet again Lion, while I cant prove he existed except from historical documents, YOU on the other hand CANNOT prove that he didnt exist no matter how hard you try. Thats why its called faith. I have faith that he did exist, and you on the other hand have faith that he didnt. So tell us Lion whats the difference? I dont see anyone in here or in any other place disrespecting your beliefs that he didnt exist, just asking you to prove it since almost every time he is mentioned you start in with calling or implying he was a myth. So why dont you offer the ones who believe in him the same courtesy they give you?
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Lionheart
Because those that believe in such idiosy have in the past, and most likely will do in the future, cause some people to have psychological issues. Hence the term Religious Trauma Syndrome, more commonly known as RTS in the psychological field of work.
I work with people suffering from RTS, mainly because they fear not meeting the mark and are under the impression they might go to a place called Hell. Also, people actually die because of religious beliefs Sir Daniel.
On the other hand, with my belief system that no deities exist, it doesn’t harm anyone psychologically, and those who don’t believe certainly won’t start a war, or harm anyone, just because they don’t believe in deities.
🦁❤️
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Daniel Gray
And you show your Anti Religious Trauma Syndrome with every post.
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Lionheart
It's very clear that you are really grieved that I have a clean bill of health, physically, and mentally, unlike many that are trapped in their head from the religious indoctrination they have received over the years, causing them immense stress, resulting in seeking professional counseling. You might want to seriously consider it at some time, Sir.
I genuinely hope you can find peace from what really upsets you about me. It could be religiously based, Daniel. I somehow doubt you will ever want to find out.
Peace! ✌🏻
🦁♥️
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Lionheart
Who knows what he was, if he ever really existed? He more than likely had a glass of water with it that he turned into a glass of Merlot, or a full bodied whisky barrel aged Cabernet. He was obviously very fond of wine🍷.
I wonder, if he had turned water into cask conditioned ale would clergy be pulling a pint of ale for sacrament today.
Turning water into Whisky would have been a revelation, or a “Moscow Speaking Mule” cocktail 🍹
🦁❤️
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Theresa C. Marquess
Are they serious? Jesus a vegetarian? No where that I know of is it written that he didn't eat fish or lamb. Give me a break!
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William Leon Barfield jr
I always said he was born to the vegan Mary, not virgin.
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Original LeftNut
This is the best comment I have read in a long time. love it, and probably the most logical explanation for a grave historical error.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
The founder of Christianity (Saul, who morphed into Paul) fabricated Jesus, because Judaism was too strict during Saul’s time. After Saul, became Paul, Paul invented a Jesus who promised anyone who’d follow him, an eternal paradise after they died, as a payment for being a follower of him (Jesus) until they died. Less obligations than Judaism, with a far more generous return — how could Saul (aka, Paul) miss with such an offer. But the Romans wouldn’t buy it — so Jesus had to commit altruistic suicide in Paul’s version of Hebrew/Roman history — which is the rest of the story,
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Daniel Gray
No such thing as a bishop here and I guess you forgot to read the Pontius Pilate report sent back to the emperor: "The Report of Pilate to Tiberius, known also as Anaphora Pilati, is an ancient apocryphal work written by Pontius Pilate and originally written in Greek. In it, the governor of Judea informs the Emperor in Rome about Jesus' miracles, death sentence, crucifixion and resurrection." And before you try and claim Pilate wasnt real you might want to take a look at The Pilate Stone, which clearly identifies this man as a real person.
Now since it was death for you to like to the Emperor in Rome no matter who you were, I doubt very much that Pontius was going to place his life on the line to make up a myth. Which logically and historically means that Jesus was real.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Pontius Pilate never learned Greek, ergo anything purporting to be written by PP, was probably translated into Latin, by Saul, who changed his name to Paul, in order the confuse the Romans, who still wanted to follow the Roman Gods ( who weren’t yet turned into saints). And, Paul, as most credible New Testament scholars know, was the chief propagandist for a Jesus, to get rid of oppressive, and difficult to follow, Hebrew rules and regulations..
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Daniel Gray
Really? And you want to show your proof of this Mr Fake Bishop? Seems you are wrong yet again. According to historical records Pilate was from the upper classes, a patrician, and would also have spoken Koine Greek. It might even have been his native language—to the upper classes in Rome, Greek was the prestige language, much like French in the 18th century in Europe, and there are recorded instances of Roman patricians being brought up to speak Greek as their first language. He would also have had to speak Greek to communicate with his troops in Jerusalem, who would mostly have been Greek-speaking. It is unlikely in the extreme that he would have spoken any Aramaic.
In all likelihood Pilate spoke Koine Greek, with no interpreter. The conversation is somewhat halting. One particular exchange indicates this: when Pilate asks if Jesus is “the son of God”, Jesus replies “Those are your words, not mine”. This sounds very much like he is trying to explain that it’s a set phrase in Aramaic—it just meant “devout Jew”—and what Jesus was trying to get across was that it didn’t mean the same thing in Aramaic as a literal translation into Greek would have you imagine.
There’s also circumstantial evidence: if they had spoken Latin, there would most likely not have been anyone around—especially not anyone sympathetic to Jesus—who would understand and relate the conversation to someone else later. Latin was not widely spoken in the Eastern half of the Roman Empire. If they spoke Koine Greek, anyone who was around and not mentioned in the narrative—soldiers, slaves, whatever—would have passed it on.
Please know history before you try and speak on it.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
I give my permission, to the ULC, to email you a copy of my ULC Bishopship, in return for you sending the ULC, $20.00. Are you OK with this, historically-gullible Dave? There’s not bit of court-admissible evidence that either the Jesus, who was fabricated by St. Paul, who morphed from Christian-bashing Saul, into Paul, so that he could attack the Roman Empire with the Hebrews he converted from Judaism, to follow Jesus, by having the fabricated Jesus, guarantee an eternal bliss-filled hereafter, to anyone who followed him. Even Judas got into the act, by notifying the Roman’s, that St. Paul was offering a better hereafter, than the Hebrews were — and that Jesus was willing to up the ante, to give a better Heavenly deal, marked the beginning of what’s now the Roman Catholic Church.
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Daniel Gray
Already checked with them and they clearly say they have never heard of you nor do they have you listed as a pastor, let alone the Bishop you claim to be.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Check out my ULC bonafides on the ULC ministers profiles, and check out the non-religious history of Christianity (particularly by Karen Armstrong, a recovering nun) instead of relying on British monarch King James, to provide you with your view of the history of Christian mythology.
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Daniel Gray
Again I have and not one of the things you claim backs you up on anything.
And I see you are so desperate to get anyone to believe you, you use a discredited book by a supposed nun (who the Roman Catholic order she claims to have been a member of denies having any record of her ever joining) So there is a major strike against you. And isn't it so hypocritical of you to try and dis me claiming I am relying on the King James Bible (English) when the author of the fake and discredited book you want to source, is Northern Irish and part of the English/Or Great Britain? So tell us just how you can dis someone for supposedly using an English version of the Bible when you are trying to use a discredited book from an Northern Irish claimed author?
Again and this site you are posting on clearly does NOT show any Bishop ranks or titles. So why do you keep trying to inflate yourself when its so easily proved that its not true?
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Rev. BH
Catholics "eat the body and drink the blood of Christ". That's not vegetarian, for sure.
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Ulc Who
Actually, bread wafer and wine is veg, there, Scooter. Sorry about your high school education failure.
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Nicholas J Page
What does it matter if jesus christ was a vegeterian or not
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Original LeftNut
It matters to them, some of the most self righteous (read that as annoying) people I have ever known were the Vegetarian/Vegan Zealot type. If they could claim all the dinosaurs were vegan they would, you have to remember Vegetarian/Veganism is like a cult for some, throw in god as well you have some real hard line crack pots on your hands.
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ServantOfJudgement
If the Bible is true, Jesus is God.
God commanded the continual sacrifice of a wide range of animals, at times commanding the consumption of the animals. Jesus commanded the sacrifice of animals.
During his ministry Jesus mostly lived from charity. He would not refuse food as long as it met the standards set forth in the law. He taught to do so. He instructed his students to eat what was offered if they so chose, negating the Biblical dietary laws when preaching to the gentiles. Jesus isn't a picky or a hoity-toity eater.
The bible documents Jesus eating meat in several locations.
The turning of the money changer tables was a violent response from Jesus where he fashioned a whip on the spot and physically herded people from the temple as you'd do with animals. He did so not because they were sacrificing animals as he commanded to, rather because they'd turned the meaning of the sacrifice into a meaningless and mindless business. Jesus does not like godless business, especially in God's temple.
Jesus was not a vegetarian prior his crucifixion.
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Dawn
You really need to watch Christpiracy. Everything you wrote is what the religions say & do-not Christ. It’s all been lies and manipulations.
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ServantOfJudgement
I read those things in the bible Dawn. It's right there in black and white.
The genesis verse you quoted elsewhere in no way negates the meat eating verses nor do they negate the Genesis verse. They all are correct.
If we ignore or dismiss other verses as irrelevant or fake were left with a Bible we personally authored to suit our needs.
Better off to junk the whole document otherwise you'll end up with a cult.
Jesus is the word and the word said Jesus ate meat pre crucifixion. Jesus said he ate meat.
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Melinda Fulk
Okay, he may or may not have eaten meat - that was a pricier commodity once upon a time and there are a lot of Jewish proscriptions on certain kinds of meat. And he may have been a vegetarian who ate fish - a lot do even nowadays. But it's a big jump from no animal sacrifice to being vegetarian. Animal sacrifice was something sacred with definite ritual attached to it.
There was also the fact that he was considered the ultimate sacrifice, so no more would be needed.
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Daniel Gray
First off there is no such thing as a Vegetarian or a Vegan. Ask your own doctor, when you sleep at night you exfoliate skin cells from your face into your pillow. Now when your head is on your pillow or your face is next to your loved one all these skin cells are left and when you breath in you are factually ingesting them and your body uses them for food, that comes to 1.6 pounds of them each year and thats even after you wash your face before going to bed each night (I have 6 different family members who have careers in the medical field and combined have a total of over 100 years experience). In short no matter if you like it or not, if you think its gross or not; every night you fall asleep you are ingesting skin cells or in short MEAT! So you cant claim you dont eat any meat as you do.
Now as for a Vegetarian eating fish? Um no not hardly. Vegetarians eat Vegetables Nuts Legumes Tofu Egg Fruits Grains Green leafy vegetables Beans and lentils Breakfast cereals fortified with iron Dairy Dried raisins Oils and spreads Pulses Yogurt
The difference between them and the ones who call themselves Vegans are Vegans eat the same things except anything that is a byproduct of animals like eggs and milk and dairy. At no time do either of them eat fish as fish is classified as meat.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Ask my doctor if I eat skin cells in my sleep? 1.6 lbs/year?
Really, Greh? You asked your doctor this question? Please don’t lie. I think you SHOULD ask your doctor this. Your doctor will have something to tell the family at dinner….
‘Honey, you won’t believe what a patient asked me today!’
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James Thomas Mann III
Remember “Up His Nose “ from Cheech and Chong?😇
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Daniel Gray
Yep james, I think that is what Zeph is worried about
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Daniel Gray
Its not my problem Zeph if you want to go through life as ignorant as you sound now. You produce about 10 grams of dead skin cells per week. Since you spend one third of your time in bed, that means about one third of those skin cells will come off while you are in bed and almost all of them will come from your face since you wear pajamas. That means every night your bed is collecting about 300,000 dead skin cells. and when you breathe in care to guess where the dead skin cells on your pillow go to? Source? American Medical Association. And I guess it shows how ignorant you are to think I was suggesting you ask my doctor when I clearly suggested for you to ask your OWN doctor.
Every time I think you might be learning something you open your mouth and ruin it
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Reverend Paula Copp
Sorry, but fish is NOT now, nor has it ever been, considered meat.
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James Richard Norby
Not too many open minds here. I am willing to listen.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
I’d watch the film if I came across it. Not going to go look for it. And it probably would be more accurate to say I’d START watching it. It needs to be remembered that the case for a historical Jesus is not a slam dunk. What’s next….Jesus was a coin collector?
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ServantOfJudgement
Don't joke like that Dr Z.
Jesus had a fish bring a coin to Peter. If we get another cult started I'm blaming you.
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? The I guess you missed the report of Pilate to the Emperor in rome where he described Jesus and his actions. And considering it was death to lie to the emperor, do you actually think he would put his life on the line just so you can make a stupid remark today?
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Alexander Arends
"So, for those who celebrate: if you’re reaching for a slice of ham this Easter Sunday, we’re not saying you shouldn’t eat it… but if this potential cover up makes you think twice, well, we also can’t blame you."
I think we can be sure that Jesus did not eat ham, a pork product, or the Pharisees would have been all over him for that. We also do not read about Jesus specifically forbid the eating of meat products. So if he did not eat meat, it would have been because of personal preference. And just because we don't read about what vegetables ate, it does not mean he was solely on a fish diet. We do know however, that he did not disapprove of wine. If I were to determine what Jesus ate or did not eat, I would assume that his food intake would be the same as that of other Jews. Happy Easter.
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James Thomas Mann III
I believe you will find that according to scripture Jesus specifically addressed this question when he was asked about it. He said that you were allowed to eat anything as long as long as you said grace. I have even heard morans say that Jesus was actually a woman too but I think someone would have noticed that during the crucifixion and comment on that don’t you think?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Whose is/was morans?
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James Thomas Mann III
Well for some, whoever was involved with developing this text app that changes what you write even though you really do proofread it twice carefully before posting. But this one was my screwup.
Thanks for pointing out my moronic mistake.😎
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Thomas P. Davis
As far as the other comments on wine, it was non-alcoholic. I know of several denominations that serve alcohol with their communion bread. I ask them what type of bread, their reply is unleavened since it can't have yeast in it, because yeast is a symbol of sin in the bible and God was without sin. I ask them why then they use alcoholic wine since it too has yeast in it and God's blood had no sin in it either.
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Farajallah Michael Yazbek
NOPE. Wine was NOT non-alcoholic. It was mixed with water in order to lessen the alcohol's effects. Don't believe what the prohibitionists tell you about things that happened when they weren't there. The wine was probably a good locally-produced wine made from raisins and dates, which were the fruits of choice of the local vintners at the time. You can still enjoy this wine if you purchase a Greek wine called Mavro-Daphne from the Peloponese region of Greece. And there is absolutely NO wine that doesn't contain alcohol. Otherwise there wouldn't be the complaints about Jesus keeping company of the "wine-bibbers" in the taverns and inns. And Peter, in 1 Peter, would never say to enter a little wine into our souls but don't be drunk on it. Read the scriptures and believe what they say, not what some man has told you they say.
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Thomas P. Davis
The wine was non-alcoholic. That was what the miracle at the feast of Caanan was all about. Weddings lasted all day back then and the children as well partook in the wine. New wine was available only one time a year at harvest time. In order to keep the wine from fermentation. Which in most cases would turn to vinegar, they needed to process it. One method was to boil it down to a thick syrup. The reason why the added water to it, to reconstitute it (as we would say in today's language.) That white powder on grapes is wild yeast, only in a very few grapes, is it wine yeast. Most of it is vinegar yeast. A wine maker, which is what I once was, first adds a chemical to the must (grape juice) to kill the wild yeast in preparation for the addition of the wine yeast. Someone who has drank an alcoholic beverage all day would be so inebriated; they wouldn't be able to tell the difference in the quality of the drink they were consuming. So, since the bible says that there is nothing new under the sun, You would have us to believe that something God preached against. Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. Pro 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Would have a bunch of people get drunk, drive home and wreck their chariots on the way and kill a few in the process, then once home beat their wives and kick their dogs. The word used for wine in the bible can be interpreted either as alcoholic or non- alcoholic. It needs to be interpreted in the context that it is writtten, So you need to read it with glasses other than what the people that manufacture it give us.
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Rev. MichaelRS
This is ridiculous on the face of it.
Not only was Jesus a Jew He was a pious Jew and that piety would involve things such as animal sacrifice. And animal sacrifice in the temple would not have been possible anyway until it was spiritually cleansed and rededicated. So it has nothing to do with animal activism.
This is nearly as ridiculous as speculating that Jesus was actually homosexual because He hung around with those 12 dudes and never married. Or that maybe He was Bi because He apparently did enjoy a hooker now and then, as evident by his association with Mary Magdalene.
The vegetarian thing is not too bad but the latter two theories are absolutely demonically inspired.
But even if He, as Jesus the man, did prefer vegetables, it is spiritually meaningless. If they were around back in that day it's as spiritually meaningless as if Jesus had preferred Pepsi over Coke.
If He was such a radical vegetarian in He would have fed the multitude with five loaves of bread and two carrots sticks instead of two fishes as described in Matthew 14:17-19 during The Sermon on the Mount.
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James Richard Norby
In the recently discovered book of Cola Jesus had a strong preference for Royal Crown Cola.
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Daniel Gray
Try that with Mohammad and see how far you get.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Considering that Jesus was a pious Jew, and the fact that he was 33 years old at the time of his death, it is probable that he did marry. In all likelihood, he married Mary Magdalene.
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Rev. MichaelRS
If Jesus had married it is beyond ridiculous to believe that it would be something that people would have to search for or speculate about or create theories over from some fragment of ancient text from the day.
It would be clearly stated somewhere in what we know as the Christian scriptures today to the point where nobody could deny it.
But there's no shortage of "biblical scholars" that are trying to justify their existence, justify their paycheck, by coming up with these harebrained ideas.
One thing we do know for sure though is that, considering the miracles of the wine and separately the loaves & fishes, if he ever did get married he wouldn't have to worry about catering at his wedding.
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Thomas P. Davis
No
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Daniel Gray
Oh Give me a break. He ate Lamb and fish BOTH of which are MEAT! How stupid can you be to believe something like this
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James Thomas Mann III
I have to agree with you on that. I know that it’s fashionable to declare that no animals were harmed during this movie… but you either believe the Book or you don’t. Politically correct doesn’t apply here.
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Daniel Gray
Or even if you dont believe the Book, then you still have to believe the dietary functions of the people in that area and era.
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I am in my third year of Bible College. The claim of this movie is ABSURD on its face. All one has to do, is simply adhere to a close reading of scripture (both OLD and NEW Testament) and you will find that the film is an utter waste of time.