A Texas pastor says he has the solution to end false rape accusations, and he believes the Holy Bible backs him up.
His plan? Execute a few women and the rest will fall in line.
Pastor Joel Webbon of Covenant Bible Church in Georgetown, Texas, made the controversial statement during a larger sermon in late September entitled “So The Rest May Stand In Fear.”
In the sermon, Pastor Webbon suggests taking our justice system back thousands of years, to when false witnesses were given the same punishment as their accusation.
And though this could apply to any number of crimes, Pastor Webbon had particular ire for women who falsely accuse men of rape, suggesting that movements like ‘#MeToo’ will be squashed very quickly if we dial back the justice system a few thousand years.
An Eye for an Eye
"This should be the law of the land in our country, in every country, still to this day," said Pastor Webbon during the sermon.
He says we should follow the legal blueprint found in Deuteronomy 19: Anyone who falsely accuses anyone of a crime must bear the punishment of that crime if the accused is found guilty.
For example: If you accuse someone of murder, and the punishment for murder is death, but the accused is innocent, the accuser will instead be put to death instead.
"If that were to occur, and the just penalties were to be enforced, you the false accuser is now put to death - and that's a public death, a public sentence, publicly carried out," Webbon explained. "Then the citizens of these United States of America, you know what they would do? #MeToo would end real fast. False accusing, playing the victim when you're actually not? You know how to end that real fast? All you have you do is publicly execute a few women who have lied."
It’s not just women who make false rape accusations who should be murdered, however. Webbon also went on to argue that “in a just society” women who commit adultery would also be killed, rendering divorce unnecessary because “there would not be a spouse left living to divorce.”
The sermons went viral after they were shared on X, with the clip of Webbon calling for false rape accusers to be executed has been viewed more than 5 million times.
Is This a Good Idea?
Responses poured in from social media users, most of whom were outraged at the pastor’s insistence that Bronze Age justice should make a comeback in the 21st century.
Though most agreed that Webbon’s solution is barbaric, he doubled down, insisting that he was only espousing biblical values and God’s justice.
Well, that’s one way to get divorce rates down.
Pastor Webbon says he’s suggesting we follow the legal blueprint laid out by God in the Bible. But most would agree that murdering false rape accusers and adulterers is particularly barbaric, and obviously rife for all sorts of abuse, and rape is already a difficult crime to prove in a court of law. If a woman is raped, takes her rapist to court, but is unable to meet the burden of proof for the crime… should she be executed? Under Pastor Webbon’s justice system, the answer appears to be yes. Is that really justice?
What is your reaction? Is an eye for an eye ever a good idea, or should we simply leave this idea thousands of years in the past?
182 comments
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Rev. BH
Texas - what a surprise. I guess they're not killing enough women there.
"A dramatic rise in pregnant women dying in Texas after abortion ban. Analysis finds the rate of maternal deaths in Texas increased 56% from 2019 to 2022, compared with just 11% nationwide during the same time period."
And who determines "false" rape accusations? A jury of all male good ole boys?
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
As I also pointed out in another discussion here, two texas billionaires, one a pastor, are working to make texas a theocracy, neither are shy about it and they admit that they are working to make the US a theocracy as well, because...texas be crazy and apparently filled with whackjobs who want to implement their kkkristofascists version of sharia law...literally they want to govern based on biblical law. And you wonder why I'm so disrespectful towards those poor excuses of human beings and those that think like them.
Imagine, health care determined NOT by medically trained personnel but by preachers and bjorn agin' holy rollers (and maybe a conspiracist with lawyerly training who could possibly be in charge of the US health care system). Dog save us all
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Donald Vincent Korbecki
It's already controlled by insurance companies and bureaucrats, not doctors!
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
"And who determines "false" rape accusations? A jury of all male good ole boys?"
Juries comprises people of both (all) sexes. A woman accused of making a false rape allegation would face a trial exactly as her alleged victim would have faced. She wouldn't be presumed guilty just because her allegation couldn't be proven to the criminal standard.
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Daniel Gray
Nothing of the sort BH, stop with your myths. My sister is a PICC Nurse and lives in Brownsville Texas and after checking with the State Health Department, they can find absolutely no recorded proof of this happening.
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Michael Hunt
Here's the original article: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-health/texas-abortion-ban-deaths-pregnant-women-sb8-analysis-rcna171631
"From 2019 to 2022, the rate of maternal mortality cases in Texas rose by 56%, compared with just 11% nationwide during the same time period, according to an analysis by the Gender Equity Policy Institute. The nonprofit research group scoured publicly available reports from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and shared the analysis exclusively with NBC News."
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Rev. BH
Daniel, Of course the Texas State Health Department can find no proof! It's like asking the NRA for gun death statistics.
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Daniel Gray
Yea right, and considering that they are REQUIRED BY LAW to have these statistics as well as the Texas State Police and the FBI for their crime report they deliver each year....it clearly shows that you have no bloody idea what you are talking about
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James Riggle-Johnson
And I thought I was naive, Daniel.
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Daniel Gray
You are, thanks for admitting it
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James Riggle-Johnson
Daniel, the alternate facts you come up with are out there. You won’t mind that I think they are wrong. I know you cannot admit fault. You can’t convince someone who will only believe what they read from Qanon. I learned this from your statement about Disney’s Kathleen Kennedy. Either you imagine facts by making them up, or you’re reading them from a conspiracy site. It doesn’t surprise me at all that you’re willing to put woman in jail for mistakenly identifying her rapist.
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Daniel Gray
seems you are the one coming up with alternative facts and then you seemingly get very upset when your "facts" are proved wrong and come back and stomp your foot like a 3 year old child throwing a tantrum
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Reverend Paula Copp
Mr. Gray, you obviously don’t keep up with current events… May I suggest that you rectify that at your earliest convenience.
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Daniel Gray
I obviously do, sad to say by your posts you dont.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Careful, Mr. Gray, your Kool-Ade is showing…
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Daniel Gray
And your ignorance is clearly showing.
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Pastor George Day
Daniel Gray
It is a pleasure to you.
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Herbert Moore
Yet another way to intimidate women who have been raped.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
Women who make false rape allegations should face exactly the same penalty their victims would have faced if the allegations had been true.
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Rev. BH
This is why most rapes go unreported. If it really happened, but she cannot prove it in court, the woman should now be punished? That will shut up even more rape victims. Is that the idea? Great idea, Webbon, et al.
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John Robert Peters
I really don't think women should be the focus of all that is evil. The Eve story is mythic and written by a member of an extreme patriarchal society. Women are raped frequently and abused more frequently in many other ways including severe physical abuse. Most of the time the men perpetrateing the abuse and rape and incest go unpunished and continue on in their normal lives while a women who suffers the abuse is left by society to either continue to suffer, seek help in a shelter for the abused, or flee and try to change her identity so she can't be found and beaten yet again.I truly believe that if the sort of nonsense coming from this pastor is supported even by indifference and silence, this socient will fall. Any god, goddess or god/goddess who would allow this to happen in her/his creation does not deserve worship and his minister desserve the punishment.
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Thomas P. Davis
I agree 200 % with your reply except the first line. "The Eve story is mythic and written by a member of an extreme patriarchal society." It is a real story written by Moses who was inspired by the Holy Ghost. She was not satisfied being Adams equal and fell for Satan's lie and desired to be above her husband and not equal to him. She was deceived by the serpent Adam was not. Thus, the Lord said Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
talk about coincidence, I brought up this exact incident (in the blog about the secret religious history of halloween) and a member claimed I was being paranoid and dismissed me, this story and other related items.
but to the point here, this is a glaring reason why I have no respect for people and religions such as the ones in the story. image, a 'religious man' who thinks killing women for making false accusations of rape is a suitable punishment. sadly he fails to note his feelings on punishment for the men who are actually found guilty. but then, he's all too aware that proving rape can be difficult and nearly impossible if the woman is not examined medically (rape kit). comments like those from this horrible little man are intended to make women afraid to come forth if they've been raped, which of course makes it easier and safer for men to continue raping women with impunity. it's not justice, it's open season on women under the disgusting auspices of religion, bible and god.
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John P Maher
IS IT RELIGION THAT is SICKENING MENTALLY and PHYSICALLY to THE HUMAN BEING or THE MENTALLY and PHYSICALLY CLERGY ITSELF TO BLAME TWISTING and FORNICATING TRULY B S in the FIRST PLACE to ESCAPE THEIR OWN SINS ? tRUMP is a PRIME EXAMPLE and THE CLERGY is FOLLOWING HIM CHANTING HE IS THE ORANGE JESUS, RELIGION SEEM TO BE THE ROAD TO HELL ! I DO NOT BELIEVE IN EITHER, HEAVEN NOR HELL, ITS ALL B S !!!
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Kenneth Kling
If you don't believe ...... then why are you out here in the first place? You used all Caps to make some sort of point? Seems to me you would have a less stressful life if you follow something else?
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Pastor George Day
John P Maher
It is beyond my understanding you continue to shout.
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Patricia Ann Gross
JJ, Your point is taken.
When is killing someone for a false accusation an "eye for an eye"? What I didn't get was how murdering a woman because she falsely accused someone of rape is punishing him the same way he would have been found guilty. The last time I looked, the only time that rape deserves the death penalty is when the victim is killed in the process of being raped to silence her.
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Thomas P. Davis
JJ, here we go again, people believing people for what they say. If he were religious, he would adhere to 1. the ten commandments. 2 He would exhibit the fruits of the spirit, Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than sitting in a garage turns you into a car. If not, He is not religious. Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. If he doesn't change his ways, he will be severed from the vine, is what scripture says. Some men are purely animal in nature. Look at the child prostitution, 9–12-year-old girls being visited by 25 men or more per night. If caught they get their wrists slapped, but the kid goes to jail
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Pastor George Day
Reverend. Father JJ,
You may be surprised that, for once, I concur with you.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
I encourage members to visit the links below that explain a bit more robustly who joel webbon is, what he is about and with whom he consorts:
www.peoplefor.org/rightwingwatch/post/they-worship-other-gods-joel-webbon-says-non-christians-living-in-his-neighborhood-is-a-sign-of-gods-judgment
https://churchleaders.com/news/489387-joel-webbon-brian-suave-new-christendom-press-conference.html
"Webbon is a militant Christian nationalist who believes that the American people are too degenerate, stupid, and cowardly to abide by the Constitution and therefore must be governed by a Christian dictator who “just rules with an iron fist” and forces everyone to, at the very least, “pretend to be Christian.” "
Militant christian nationalist...so I'm NOT paranoid
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Reverend Paula Copp
It’s not paranoia when it’s true…
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John Robert Peters
Well the Americans have apparently got jus that "Christian" dictator who will rule with an iron fist. Unfortunately he does not have a brain to go with his power and has no sense of Christ, ethics, integrity, or compassion. We should start a prayer circle for the US. Likely RFKjr and EM alone will create enough chaos to undermine most of the US cultural infrastructure to return us to about the early 1600s.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Dr. Father JJ
The individuals mentioned in this article including our pastor, are out of order!
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Tecla Caryl Loup
This guy is a total bozo.
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Robert Gagnon
Following this logic, This guy promoting such ideas and not knowing if the accuser is false, means he should be put to death also. He has falsely accused real victims, lets apply his rules here.
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Cynthia Mandello
Perverts love the Bible because it has no prohibition against having sex with children and allows slavery, even laying out the rules for slavery. Was Abraham stoned after fathering Ishmael with the maid while married to Sarah? No, because the rules only apply to being enforced by men against women. Where's that obese disgusting "pastor" (Dean Van Schoiack) in Missouri who did a sermon about how a PROPOSED child sex law saying the age of consent for marriage would be TWELVE, QUOTE, "interers in [his] God Given right to her fertile ripe body". Yeah, hard pass on ALL these "good Christian men".
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
yeah but thinking that way in here gets you charged with bias in favor of women and bias against men and bois which according to some (one?) is the root of all evil in today's society. but you know...consider the source
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Reverend Paula Copp
Exactly, JJ!
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Thomas P. Davis
In your story of Abraham and Ishmael. I agree He should have never done it. But it is one more of those stories in a world dominated by women that he only listened to the commands of his wife. Everyone to this day has suffered because of it. It is one of the many questions I will ask when I get to the kingdom. How can all these Godly men listen to their Godly wife and sleep with their handmaids. How could Jacob not realize that he married Leah and not the love of his life. The list could go on.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Mr. Davis, which world do you live in? In the USA our society is patriarchal, meaning it’s run by men (old white men). It seems to me that you are acting as if women cause more of the problems in our country. If that’s what you’re saying, I totally disagree with you. If that’s not what you’re saying, then I apologize for misunderstanding. Try not to sound as misogynistic as you do; women especially don’t like it.
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Thomas P. Davis
Paula, I was trying to respond to the comment that it was "Was Abraham stoned after fathering Ishmael with the maid while married to Sarah? No, because the rules only apply to being enforced by men against women" Abraham only did what he was told. I also don't know why a man that was supposed to be Godly would commit sin. You also have Adam listening to Eve and eating the fruit, then blaming her. You have Samson listening to Dalilah, Rabecca taking charge and creating division between Jacob and Essau, Jacob listening to his wife and producing offspring outside the bounds of his marriage and once again sin. Sure, parts of our society are run by men, but other parts are under the control of many women organizations. Sin is sin and it is not gender specific or country specific. As far as I am concerned all are responsible male or female. I will try not to sound so misogynistic in the future. I was married to a great woman for 36 years until the devil took her life. That was almost 8 years ago, and I still miss her dearly.
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Pastor George Day
Before accusing society of being by men, consider the following questions:
Do men have periods? Do women pass the seed?
The answer becomes clear once we understand why women have periods and men pass on the seed.
Just a thought...
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Thomas P. Davis
Cynthia, please read Lev 20:20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his Neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Not that what he did was biblical and we all suffer for it to this day, but he did what his wife commanded him to do. It seems like the Old Testament is no different than today.
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Pastor George Day
Cynthia Mandello
It is essential to conduct thorough historical research. Abraham was a Babylonian prince. During his time, it was customary to use a servant as a surrogate mother for a barren wife, and this practice was suggested by his wife. Verify the facts.
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Reverend Paula Copp
I have to wonder if he eats pork or wears mixed fabrics…
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Daniel Gray
so does a person who claims to be a pagan and then tries to use the Pope as a source.
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Alexander Arends
Biblical law, Sharia law, I think both would set us back a few thousand years. At the same time, I think that there should be greater punishment for those who bear false witness against their neighbor. Most certainly if they file a false criminal complaint. Such lies have and can ruin many people's lives.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
I agree, liars are bad for everyone. Imagine is someone were to claim that their election was stolen? stone that liar. ammirite?
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John P Maher
NOW THAT FATHER J J, I WHOLEY AGREE WITH STONE THE CREEP THAT CALLS FOR OTHERS TO BE STONED !!! I TRULY DO NOT MIND GETTING STONED MYSELF AT TIMES BUT THATS A UNICORN OF A DIFFERENT COLOR, " AMEN "
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Grand Poobah M
you need to turn your caps lock off...
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Reverend Paula Copp
Beautifully said!
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Thomas P. Davis
I agree Alexander. many decades ago, our local newspaper had an editorial every week from a Catholic priest. Someone asked him which commandment was greater than the others. His reply was "Thou Shalt not bear false witness." Because he had seen more lives destroyed by lies than by murder or the others.
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Robert Hauck, MD, FAAP
Another example of a self-declared "Christian" totally ignoring the message of the historic Jesus. And a rabid misogynist to boot! Why, oh why, do fanatics like Webber fall back upon Old Testament standards of revenge, cruelty, hatefulness and ignore the basic New Testament message: be good to fellow humans and promote love, not hate.
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Reverend Marika
That clown needs to be locked away in an insane asylum.
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Colleen McAllister
Totally abhorrent. The Old Testament laws do not apply to our world. The reasons for those laws were done away with when Christ came. Unfortunately there is no law to punish people like this so-called pastor who preaches hate and violence from the pulpit. If anyone deserves to be punished it is this man.
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John Robert Peters
Hate and violence from the pulpit + hate and violence from the White House. The new American way seems to be about the same as it was in the early 1600s w witch trials and hanging and burning of innocent women, unless you are naive enough to believe in satanic deals and the crap in the Maleus Malefactorun.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Colleen, I totally agree with you!
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Reverend Paula Copp
Colleen, I totally agree with you!
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Thomas P. Davis
Only the ceremonial laws were done away with. The moral is still in effect. In fact, Christ moved it up and said it is not only keeping the letter of the law but the spirit of the law as well. If there is no Law, there can be no sin, if there is no sin, there is no need of a Saviour, no need for ministers or churches to preach about Grace.
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Pastor George Day
Colleen McAllister
To which laws are you referring? Christ did not abolish the Torah; he fulfilled it. On the contrary, what Abraham did with Hagar was a civil law of the day, which disputes the adultery argument. It was more in line with polygamy laws. That is not Torah and has nothing to do with Christ. And no Christ did not abolish the Torah. He is the incarnate Torah himself!
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Robin Anne Hannon
Those are terrorist death threats, and he should be arrested then committed to a psychiatric facility. I for one think the police need to be called, especially because this man is dumb enough to put it in writing.
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Father Frederick
Although "execute" is an overreaction and hyperbole, I do think that when anyone does bare false witness such as alleged rape, or let's say testimony which damages a person professionally, I think there has to be a very strong signal sent. These cases have escalated in the past four decades, and we've even seen false witness on national TV hearings. Ergo, I would suggest that the person bearing false witness serve at minimum 20 years in federal prison, and be on restricted bond from any situation, persons, or group which enabled the false testimony to propagate.
You know, there is a simple answer to this. Suppose you were about to embark on the job of a lifetime, let's say a $1-million dollar a year job, and during the interview process I were to pop up and start bringing up all types of false claims to the point where the job was rescinded, and your career was basically over. Period. The only job you can now find is part time at a McDonald's for minimum wage. What would YOU fee would be a sufficient penalty toward me, in order to stop me from lying, and send the message to other people that if you lie and bear false witness, this too shall be your fate?
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
you seem a bit lathered up over the idea of someone making false claims of rape or other libelous claims.
1) are you aware that making false claims can cause that person a lot of trouble, maybe you've heard of rudy giuliani making false claims against two women in georgia? or a business man named donald trump making defamatory comments about another woman? both were found guilty and penalized with financial penalties. so it seems there are laws in place and they appear to work
2) while you seem overwrought about the thought of a woman making a false claim of rape against an innocent man (and your thoughts on her punishment) but, you seem a bit light on punishment (if any) for the man if the charges are actually true? do you have a bias?
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Daniel Gray
Oh really JJ, tell that to Steven Avery who lost 20 years of his life because of a fake rape claim
https://innocenceproject.org/cases/steven-avery/
Now I am not saying rape does not happen, but fake claims happen a whole lot more then you want to admit according to this group and the FBI Crime report 2022
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
fake rape doesn't occur nearly as often as actual, real, cruel, rape. not sure why you are so adamant about women being persecuted and prosecuted and just slithering past the issue that it's men that rape women.
Maybe get it through the heads of men that rape is a brutal crime and maybe once rapists cease to rape (and men who are rapists no longer walk free) then maybe false rape will disappear.
in the meantime you seem hellbent on punishing women at nearly every blog here so again, I am left to wonder, why do you hate women so?
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Daniel Gray
Prove it. I will wait to see if you can bring up accurate PROVED statistics as you seem to claim, but I wont hold my breath waiting
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
DG are you actually claiming fake rape reports occur more often than reported rapes? Where are YOUR stats to back it up?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21164210/
"All cases (N = 136) of sexual assault reported to a major Northeastern university over a 10-year period are analyzed to determine the percentage of false allegations. Of the 136 cases of sexual assault reported over the 10-year period, 8 (5.9%) are coded as false allegations. These results, taken in the context of an examination of previous research, indicate that the prevalence of false allegations is between 2% and 10%."
https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf
"The prevalence of false reporting is between 2% and 10%. For example, a study of eight U.S. communities, which included 2,059 cases of sexual assault, found a 7.1% rate of false reports (k). A study of 136 sexual assault cases in Boston found a 5.9% rate of false reports (j). Researchers studied 812 reports of sexual assault from 2000-03 and found a 2.1% rate of false reports (h)."
https://www.savacenterga.org/statistics
"On average, there are 433,648 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year in the United States."
You're another one here who seems to really not like women. Is there something you want to share or are you just misogynistic -y
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Rev. BH
JJ, well said.
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Daniel Gray
Guess you neglect to read the FBI Crime report of 2023 where it clearly states exactly what I said. Police are REQUIRED to send records of all their cases to the FBI so they can compile the crime report. Now who are we to believe? the police and the FBI or you and not one of your "sources" are official.
Oh and you do know that its a crime to not report a crime as you can be charged with being an accessory after the fact if you have knowledge and dont report it.
You just cant stand being proved wrong can you?
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Rev. BH
Daniel, you make your points, right or wrong, but always blow it with a "You just cant stand being proved wrong can you?" or "And your ignorance is clearly showing" or similar playground remarks. Doesn't help your cause.
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Daniel Gray
No DH I state fact and the only ones losing their minds over this are the ones that fact and reality does not fit into their world view
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Bond Wright
Yea. Gee, could he (Daniel) be just a common ordinary woman hater? I didn't say anything.....end of story. How's everybody doing? Hope you all are well... especially you Daniel.
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Michael Hunt
Here's some statistics from the National Sexual Violence Resource Center published in 2012: The prevalence of false reporting is between 2-10% although those numbers can be inflated because of inconsistent definitions and protocols or a weak understanding of sexual assault. The majority of sexual assaults, an estimated 63 percent, are never reported to police.
https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/2012-03/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf
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Daniel Gray
And the Police and the FBI Crime report clearly dispute both you and your source.
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James Riggle-Johnson
DG, where exactly are your statistics coming from? All these people are throwing statistics at you but you’ve not once provided where you are getting your numbers. That’s why we think you’re making them up. As you like to say, prove me wrong.
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Alycin Bellamy
...or that while it's law that LE departments submit reports, several departments fail to do so. Ugh.
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Daniel Gray
US Bureau of Federal Investigation Annual Crime Report. So I am still waiting for you to show how this report and how its made up from reports from EVERY police (local-county-state) are somehow wrong and you and your source are the correct ones.
Naturally I wont hold my breath waiting for your reply
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Reverend Paula Copp
Mr. Gray, Statistics show that only a quarter of estimated rapes are actually reported because of attitudes like yours…
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? then show the statistics that you are claiming. I bet you cant.
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Michael Hunt
Here you go: https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf
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Daniel Gray
And again the FBI and police are disputing your claim and your source
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James Riggle-Johnson
In the case you show as an example, the woman was actually raped. Are you suggesting the victim in this case be prosecuted for mistaken identity? Shouldn’t the legal system hold responsibility for using evidence that was fallible? Why did the police, prosecutor, and jury ignore the 16 alibi witnesses? The victim in this case is not to blame. It is an ineffective criminal justice system.
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Daniel Gray
No I am not disputing anything, the problem with your claim is the DNA does not match the man she accused, sh she intentionally lied through her teeth and put an innocent man in prison for 20 years, thus making it harder for women who actually were raped to get justice.
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James Riggle-Johnson
You have no proof she intentionally lied. Mistaken identity is a real thing. As for the DNA… why wasn’t this run 230 years ago? Did they not have the technology to do so? Men convicted of murder have been later exonerated after DNA testing got better. Are the witnesses and prosecution held accountable? You’re only talking about women being punished for being confused following one of the worst experiences of their life.
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Daniel Gray
Yea I do, sorry to bust your bubble. But the man proved he was not even there when it happened and she accused him anyway. The DNA evidence proved he was telling the truth all along and she was lying through her teeth. You still want to try and justify your myth of a position?
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James Riggle-Johnson
Grey, the only thing you’re bursting here is your own brain cells. DNA evidence DOES NOT mean she lied. It means she mistook him for the perpetrator, nothing more. The DA who prosecuted the case is somewhat at fault. Are you related to Joel Webbon or something? You’ve made your opinion clear on the matter. I’m sorry my comments are so disturbing that you had to respond on Christmas Day, but it simply isn’t that important. Go get life, live a little, take some downtime, and relax. You can come back and play kick the victim when they’re down after the holidays. Peace brother.
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Pastor George Day
Daniel
Thank you for sharing that - a clear example of a witch hunt!
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Reverend Paula Copp
I was wondering the same, JJ!
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James Riggle-Johnson
Sexual assault and rape are difficult to prove in court, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. The defense always blames the victim in these cases, and jury trials must be beyond a reasonable doubt. Sometimes it only takes one person to cast doubt. Do you think the accusers in that situation should be punished?
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
The fact that a womman's allegation of rape could not be proven to the criminal standard is NOT proof that her allegaion was false. If there is other evidence that her allegaion were false, she would be entitled to a fair trial just the same as alleged victim was.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Maybe I’m being naive but I doubt a prosecutor would charge a man with rape if no evidence whatsoever excited.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Jrj, I think you’re being naive…
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James Riggle-Johnson
Paula, are you saying that prosecutors charge men of rape with no evidence at all?
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Reverend Paula Copp
It’s very rare, I admit, JRJ, but it has happened before… I saw it first hand at a trial our class viewed during a law class. The judge was upheld on appeal, so… I think it was a guy who had been guilty of several rapes in the area, and the m.o. of the viewed evidence was identical to that of the other rapes. I guess that was enough evidence…circumstantial.
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James Riggle-Johnson
In rare casses, yes.
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Daniel Gray
when the dna provided proves she accused an innocent man into prison, then its like the people who cry wolf. You hear it so much then you get numb to it and when it really happens then its that much harder to prove
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James Riggle-Johnson
It doesn’t mean she lied! If the DNA evidence only came after the conviction is not her fault.
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Daniel Gray
Yes JJ it DOES mean she lied. Maybe not about the rape but about who did it. No matter how you want to try and spin it, the fact remains she stole 20 years of an innocent mans life.
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Pastor George Day
Father
In all fairness, it suffices for her to be charged with calumny.
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Rudolph M Garza
For a Christian, this pastor has ideas about women that are very much like extreme Sharia Islam perspectives on women. From Daily Mail and other articles I would suggest his personality is characterized by a preoccupation with perfection, orderliness, and controlling relationships. (According to Daily mail he “dictates” and controls every moment of every aspect of the lives in his family.) He’s “classic” textbook case for students in psychology to look at.
Whenever a name and place is given, I always like to research it and get other sources to gather more information. Next thing you know, a more complete picture emerges
I did the same thing with ULC’s “about” and “history”. I come to discover ULC is about as candid and transparent as you can get! The leaders have the innocence of a child with a vision of an idealized world where society is just, fair, and harmonious. Obviously, the pastor in this article is completely opposite!
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Kathy Kristine Norris
When we start playing the game of "an eye for an eye", we will see a lot of blind people walking around.
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Kathy Kristine Norris
When we start playing the game of "an eye for an eye", we will see a lot of blind people walking around.
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Alexander Clarke
Beware the bible thumping Christian Taliban.
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Rev. Rory
We are now officially a country of WCN. The majority of voters wanted this so there is no reason for us to debate it any longer. Women deserve to die for anything considered a transgression by these pastors and now by the WH and Congress. Washington has the trifecta, they invited WCNs into the oval Office (officially they were told they can have a seat at the table) and women are now at best 3/5 of a person. This is who we REALLY are. Yes, it is a sad day.
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Alejandro Medina de Wit
I am pretty sure he has being accused of raping women, hence the desire to murder his accusers
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Robert James Ruhnke
This psychotic nonsense is why people leaving the churches in droves. Pastors who make the faith about themselves or about politics (another aspect aboot themselves), are just cult leader wannabes who need to be ousted by their congregation. There is no decent excuse for this man’s, no, this middle schoolboy 90’s mean teen behavior. I might be diarrhea smart mouth from time to time, but nothing ever this insane or extreme. Yeesh.
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Russel A. Kester
While the pastor in the article seems to have gone to a rhetorical extreme to demonstrate how different our society would be if we were to follow ideas about justice written in the Old Testament by quoting Deuteronomy 19 "Anyone who falsely accuses anyone of a crime must bear the punishment of that crime if the accused is found guilty," we do not have those quotes in context nor does the printed word allow a reader to hear any inflection or nuance his voice gave to his speech. It is also noteworthy that the source of the quotes on X came from Right Wing Watch. "Right Wing Watch is a project of the progressive nonprofit organization People For the American Way" per Business Insider https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-watch-banned-from-youtube-2021-6 and therefore may be highly edited for sensational effect.
That said, men falsely accused of rape are not receiving justice for the pain, suffering, and anguish they endure.The Hill asked, "[s]hould deliberately false reports of sexual assault be subject to the same legal penalties as false reports of other felonies? Right now, accusers who lie about sexual abuse are criminally liable for filing a false report and perjury, as well as civil sanctions for defamation, but legal consequences rarely occur." https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/411905-is-it-time-to-punish-deliberate-false-accusers/
"When a man is falsely accused of sexual assault, he may experience a range of adverse psychological effects, including anxiety, depression, anger, shame, and a profound sense of betrayal. These emotions can lead to the development of PTSD, a mental health disorder triggered by traumatic experiences." https://medium.com/@mrdcooper7/the-trauma-of-false-accusations-understanding-ptsd-in-men-wrongly-accused-of-sexual-assault-5b8057a20631 I heard the testimony of a young footballer in the UK who was falsely accused of rape and lost his position on his team and his career. It took two years before his case went to court in the UK and took the jury less than 10 minutes to find him innocent, but the damage was done. And worse, the woman, under UK law, remained anonymous and received no punishment.
The very real harm experienced by men is great and there must be a severe punishment to women who falsely accuse men of rape.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
working to prevent harm to men and boys...only...
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Rev. BH
JJ, Curiously, always RAK's main concern.
PS: a suggestion to all. When you reply to a specific comment, name the person you're responding too. (Like I just did with JJ), because frequently the comment gets bumped way down the forum and seems to relate to nothing said. Hopefully a helpful idea?
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Reverend Paula Copp
BH, you’re right about RAK concerns about young men’s health, but to add to that, he seems to be actively misogynistic. A couple of the gentlemen on here seem to be actively misogynistic. I wonder how that affects their ministry…
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Rev BH point taken
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Thomas P. Davis
BH, amen it gets confusing who said what. Plus, sometimes the vote button won't let me vote and other times what I wrote disappears.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Aww, poor babies. Boys can dish it out, but darn, let someone call them on their stuff and they all start to whine. Go home to your mommies, boys.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
Do you really believe women should be allowed to make malicious false allegations of rape with impunity?
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Rev. BH
Whoever said that?
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Daniel Gray
how about you take your own advice Paula?
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Robert James Ruhnke
really weird how you only go after Paula’s comment. Grey. When just a few comments ago you were railing against this disgusting “pastor.” Which leads me to believe it was performative.
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Daniel Gray
How strange you want to get involved Ruhnke as you have been proved wrong so many times Joe Isuzu is jealous of your record.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Just because they could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that sexual assault or rape occurred does not mean it didn’t happen. Do you think the victims in these cases should be punished? Wouldn’t that scenario make more women not come forward to report such crimes? It can only take one juror to not be convinced for a rapist to go free.
In many cases when a woman is assaulted, they are blamed, shamed, and accused of lying. What if they’re in shock and don’t immediately report it and do a rape kit? Should they just keep silent? What about their PTSD? Are you telling me this is another example of women's rights going too far?
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
James Riggle-Johnson, a woam accused of making a false allegation would be entiled to a trial just the same as her alleged victim was. This is about woman who deliberately make malicious false allegations, not women who allegations of rape cannot be proven to the criminal standard.
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Thomas P. Davis
Just curious if there are any statistics on the women in my area. There is a group that has been functioning for years and call themselves cougars. Their only purpose is to seek out only happily married men and seduce them to destroy their marriage. After listening to all this talk about false rape charges, I wonder if any of them do that as well. Now they can make it financially prosperous as well.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Mike Eggleston
Your astute distinction is wise.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Russell, this is really off putting. Probably more off putting than your other comments. I’m really sick and tired of men who worship the shadows of other men. Being gay you know men are predatory, me being bi, I know just how exploitative and predatory gay and straight men can be. Women who maliciously go after men like this are out there, but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the harm men do women and each other men for that matter. You’re pushing yet another false equivalency out there.
Do I think men should get help when they’re being abused? Of course. Men seeking therapy would solve a lot of the problems, but that would also entail them getting to hold themselves accountable for their own problems and stop blaming women for their issues. Therapy helped me immensely.
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Daniel Gray
This guy needs to be muzzled and removed from whatever church he is supposedly leading. You DO NOT wish for the death of anyone and still be able to call yourself religious.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
I think women that do that should be subject to the exact same consequences that the man would have faced if he had been found guilty. Usually rape involves at least several years in prison. Say 10 years.
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Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
So, what you then have is women who are afraid to bring charges against their attackers for fear reprisal, so that rapist will continue to victimize other women. I do agree that publicly charging a person with rape, and having them judged in the media is wrong, but to make women further fear for their safety, by instituting an archaic reprisal tactic. What's next? Stoning adulterers and jailing people who don't attend church?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You misunderstand my sentiments. I’m not saying that if a man is found not guilty of the charges that the woman should be then put on trial for false accusations. I’m not saying that at all. What I’m saying is it when it’s found that a woman has completely and deliberately falsified such claims That the penalty for making such claims should have the same degree of severity as the charges that were leveled against the man. Charging a man with rape they could put him in prison for years and years, and then being found guilty of making a false police report with a much less severe penalty is just not an equitable arrangement. To be very clear, there needs to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the woman deliberately and falsely accused a man of rape or sexual assault.
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John Robert Peters
Men who rape are generally not givein sentences of years and years. Some with good lawyers only get probation. It is serial rapists, child molesters, and rape/murder perpetrators who get years and years. Rape is not really consider the seriously violent crime that it is and domestic abuse is even worse in the legal/judicial system.
Try focusing on the woman's situation as being considered an object of possession and pleasure for the man who owns her. Up until the early 1900s a man could sell his wife and children just as he could his horse or cow. That hardly meets the idea of equality or even the biblical idea of a helpmate. The patriarchal system is wrong and outdated. Stop trying to continue nurturing it with crap like this.
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Pastor George Day
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You make yourself very clear and I fully agree.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
I agree. Malicious allegations of rape can ruin a man's life, even if he is, eventually, acquitted. There must be some just for men who are maliciously accused.
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Reverend Paula Copp
What’s the harm to the victims of rape? What’s the social impact on a woman who has been raped, or is that not part of your consideration?
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Teresa Freeman
Another example of a false leader /teacher used by Satan to cause more mass confusion, you can go to a casino on Saturday but not a church , my sabbath begins Friday sundown to Saturday sundown ,you can't serve two masters , Sunday is the pagan sun God day of worship so if course the false religions will arise
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Thomas P. Davis
Amen!
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Stephen D. Atchley
You cannot claim you're preaching a New Testament gospel and promote Old Testament justice. They are incompatible and leave everyone susceptible to the stringent code of the Mosaic law. This is just another example of a 'pastor' with no true comprehension of grace. Most likely he's got a skeleton (or two) in his closet he's afraid will start talking.
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Tom Herman
This pastor is off the rails. How any alleged minister can advocate putting women to death even for a false accusation is beyond the extreme. This congregation needs to police their own.
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Michael Lakota
His mind is too simple, i cannot go on sharing his nightmares, my own are becoming clearer and they open into prehistory, into a village lit with blood, where all the fathers are shouting "my son is mine"....
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Ty Ford
Quote: "Webbon also went on to argue that “in a just society” women who commit adultery would also be killed, rendering divorce unnecessary because “there would not be a spouse left living to divorce.”"
He doesn't mention men. I posit that if men who commit adultery were put to death, our population would be a LOT lower. Of course, there's also the sticky wicket of, if the man is married and his fling is not, is she also committing adultery? Guilt by association? So kill them both or just him?
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Joseph SCott Queen
Well, seeing 👀 that we are not under law but grace, there is no eye for an eye. No death penalty for adultery or for lying. I do believe if women give a false testimony about rape or sex act to destroy a person's life, they should either pay a hefty fine or have some jail time. Now we are under the new covenant not the old covenant that is obsolete we shouldn't be killing anyone. Well maybe a murder should be.
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Mark S Laudenslayer
Me thinks pastor Joel has been diddling the congregation. 😳 Perhaps trying to intimidate someone.
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Rev Ned
Christo-Fascist Texican. (Texican is Rooster Cogburn’s word, not mine.)
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Rev Ned
Does their favorite hymn go 🎼 Jesus loves me, but He can’t stand you.?
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Rudolph M Garza
Lucky for the rest of the world, the majority are more rational about what the consequences should be for fabricating serious accusations in a court of law.
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John Robert Peters
Unfortunately the last election demonstrated that at least in the US the majority are not rational. Likewise for the other nations falling to the lure of Nationalism and right wing exclusivity ideas...mostly exclusive to men.
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Rudolph M Garza
You are on an entirely different track.
Allow me to be clear. I was referring to the pastor’s idea for the consequences of making a false accusation of rape and that the “majority” see a more “rational” solution, ie. the legal consequences of making false accusations. Meanwhile….
I suspect you are so preoccupied with the “last election” you see a “Nationalist” behind every tree! 😂
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Francis Joseph Burkhardt
What? This is like the new elections laws when there was no problem but a man constantly spreading lies. America could be worse than it will become on 20Jan25.
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Rudolph M Garza
Comment removed by user.
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Gary Leu
Hmm... did he just accuse all (or even some) of the women reporting rapes of falsely accusing their rapists? Well... let's hold this ignorant Texas doofus to the same standard he is advocates for all false accusers! Who gets to choose the method of execution? Off with his head!
Whether you're a Christian or not, I think Jesus had a good point when he stopped a stoning "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He also encouraged us to the the beam out of our own eyes. In other words (mine, hehe), take the sticks out of your butts, stop judging everyone, and shut the "firetruck" up. :P
Bless! :)
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John Robert Peters
I totally agree w you here. This is especially true if the standard of guilt for the woman is failing to prove a rape or abuse in a court that requires really overwhelming evidence to prove the rapist guilty in the eyes of the law. I would venture that combining this with the number of unreported rapes and hidden domestic abuse there are far more men who go free despite true guilt than there are women who falsely report a rape. This pastor and the vociferous Daniel Gray seem to fall on the side of a god of wrath and punishment like the one in the Book of Job, the one the Gnostics called Ialdabaoth, the mad god. They hardly even approach the god of mercy and love preached by the early Christians. I would again point out that ULC specifies "We are all children of the same universe". Please behave as if you at least accept the teaching of the church to which you have joined and which provides this sort of platform for sharing.
Blessed Be and Bright Blessings to all.
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Steven Ferrell
They should be charged and sued, but this guy is crazy to say put to death.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Not if the charges the man was accused of could have resulted in the death penalty.
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Rev. BH
Dr. Z, The death penalty for rape? When has that ever happened?
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Theresa C. Marquess
Is this minister out of his mind? Betcha he locks his wife in the closet if his coffee isn't brought to him on time in the morning, too. There are already large numbers of rape victims who were too scared to report a rape. Just the process of proving it was a rape is humiliating to a woman, add that to a rape and it's no wonder that so many go unreported. What has this man done in his lifetime to say that a woman who falsely reports a rape should be executed?
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John Robert Peters
According to the ULF:we are all children of the same universe...see the bottom of this page...there is no distinction re sex, gender, sexual preferences, religion, color, or language.
Apparently a fair number of the pastors on this site do not believe in the tenant of the ULF even as they consider themselves members of the ULF.
Perhaps a bunch of folks need to grow up and consider how they say they believe and how the behave in practicing and preaching their beliefs.
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Pastor George Day
John Robert Peters
Why do you refer to us as ULF when we are ULC?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Are other people chocking to receive notifications of responses to comments and subsequently not receiving said notification? Because I haven’t received notification on any of the comments that I’ve recently left.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Let's see the death penalty for rape be restored, first. Then we can talk about bouncing that penalty onto false accusers. And no settling out of court with money, either. If a rape can be proved to have happened, instant death for the rapist. And false accusations be proved just as solidly as rape, no assumptions due to lack of evidence.
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Jerry M Choat
The laws were not given to all humankind.
The Lord made a covenant, or an agreement, with the descendants of Jacob, who became the nation of Israel.
God gave his laws to this nation only. The Bible makes this clear; When Moses summoned all Israel and said: Hear, O Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them.
For Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today {Deuteronomy 5:1-3
The apostle Paul asked the question: “Why, then, the Law?” Yes, for what purpose did God give his law to Israel.
It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by a mediator. Now a mediator implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not!
For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
For the Scripture' imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those exercising faith.
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the mosaic law imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith. {Galatians 3:19-24
The many sacrifices required by the Law reminded the Israelites that they were sinners who needed a Savior. Read {Hebrews 10:1-4
Jesus Christ, of course, was that promised Savior, even as the angel proclaimed at his birth. Read {Luke 2:8-14
So when Christ came and gave his perfect life as a sacrifice, what happened to the Law? It was removed.
Since that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. {Galatians 3:25
The removal of the Law was a relief to the Israelites. It had shown them up as sinners, for all of them fell short of keeping that Law perfectly.
Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law.
{Galatians 3:14 states; This was so that the blessing of Abraham would come to the nations by means of Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" {Romans 10:4
Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. {John 1:17
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Although execution would be inappropriate because rape isn’t generally punished by death, cases where deliberately made false accusations were made should be prosecuted. And if found guilty the maximum penalty for the crime the accusation was made for should be imposed. In rape cases this would mean jail time.
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Daniel Gray
I love how people who claim to be enlightened, then turn around and use 3rd grade insults. For instance like this
"Daniel, you make your points, right or wrong, but always blow it with a "You just cant stand being proved wrong can you?" or "And your ignorance is clearly showing" or similar playground remarks. Doesn't help your cause"
The poster makes a false claim, and then whines and attacks when they have no leg to stand on
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Pastor George Day
Daniel Gray
Extremely well articulated!
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Francis Joseph Burkhardt
I am a veteran and this nation is rapidly becoming one that I would not give my life for. The American education system started failing during the Raygun years and this society is the result. We are a nation of ignorant fools who chose to follow the Orange Faced Clown.
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Lionheart
Thank you for your service.
So are you pleased that your service for this country has ended up with some woke individuals helping to run this nation? Are you pleased that we now have open borders? Are you pleased that we have many fellow veterans homeless on the streets while illegal immigrants are being housed in hotels?
Will you be grateful if the Orange Faced Clown resolves many of these issues?
I'm just asking for someone I know that was brutally killed by an illegal immigrant.
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Didn't Jesus say to let he who is without sin cast the first stone? I would be willing to bet this Incel has a few skeletons in his closet he'd like to keep there.
As goes history, I'm sure we'll see a story about him being arrested for kiddie porn or keeping young girls chained in his basement in the future. Those are not the skeletons I'd want to see him keep hidden.
While that is what is said, you forget these right wing nuts totally believe themselves to be pure and free of sin because of their faith.
Fair point. I keep forgetting logic and rationality and reason are not the strong points of such people.
Assuming he was real, how does anyone know what Jesus ever really said. 🤷
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Totally irrelevant, LH. I'm using his weapon of choice against him. It's more sporting that way.
LH, he was using Old Testament (Deuteronomy) justice, not what Jesus is reported to have said.
Ah, then he is not a "Christian", is he? Christians, loosely defined means a Follower of Christ. They would be Preaching the lessons taught by Jesus Christ, when he was walking to villages. From what I remember, Only the first Four books of the New Testament are what Jesus Christ taught.
What "he" are you talking about. LH was talking about Jesus, and no, Jesus was not a Christian. He was Jewish.
He was only half Jewish. His Mother was Jewish, His father was not.
Only by ethnicity. He observed and practiced the Jewish customs.
He also referred to the other books as well.
Jesus instructed us to love and to go the extra mile.
Again, Sir George, how do we know what Jesus ever really said, when we know that no contemporary historians at the time Jesus was supposed to have been alive ever wrote about him.
Lionheart,
We continue to go back and forth with the same questions and answers. Have you noticed? I refer you to the book: A Case for Jesus. It is a better job than I can do.
If you are that impressed with the author, Dr. Brant Pitre, why are you not a Catholic like he is? Is there something you disagree with him on, or have you now converted to the Catholic faith?
🦁♥️
Lionheart,
He was a Baptist minister who had converted from Amadi Islam. His wife and child survive him.
Are we talking about the same person? He’s still alive and lives with his wife and 5 children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brant_J._Pitre
He’s staunch Catholic and believes in transubstantiation. That’s enough for me to tell me that he is completely off his head. I don’t need to read anything he has published with that sort of crazy ideology.
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I apologize, Lionheart. I got confused.
While I do not know the person you quoted - and I have no issue with transubstantiation, as it is merely one of four diverse understandings of the mystery or sacrament of the Eucharist (viz: transubstantiation, consubstantiation, spiritual/real presence, memorialism), I confused A Case for Christ with Seeking Allah & Finding Jesus. The two authors were best friends, and one is deceased.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?&q=Seeking+Allah+Finding+Jesus&qpvt=Seeking+Allah+Finding+Jesus&mid=203E43B1EA1B79A27A14203E43B1EA1B79A27A14&&FORM=VRDGAR
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=A+case+for+Jesus&mid=14F8708494D28C8E749A14F8708494D28C8E749A&FORM=VIRE
The initial link appears to be faulty. Kindly try this alternative.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0D8Uz4oQck
Likewise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDlgWC49iqA