Adoption agencies in Tennessee may soon be allowed to prevent same-sex couples from adopting a child from their system if it conflicts with the organization's religious beliefs.
HB 836 would allow licensed adoption agencies in the state to refuse to place a child with a family if doing so violates its "written religious or moral convictions or policies." It would also prevent the Department of Children's Services from opposing any decisions based on religious objections, and grant adoption and child placement agencies immunity from discrimination lawsuits.
The bill passed an initial hurdle in the House of Representatives last week and will now go committee even as fierce opposition builds from LGBTQ advocacy groups.
Backlash and Warnings of Consequences
Tennessee Democrats and LGBTQ advocates have expressed outrage at the proposed policy, calling it a step backward that will ultimately hurt needy kids.
"We have children across this state looking for loving homes," explained Rep. John Ray Clemmons, D-Nashville. "Why are we wanting to do anything to prohibit a loving couple or a family of any denomination, any religion, any moral conviction from being able to care for a child and take it in and provide for it? We have got to stop discriminating against people. We have gone far enough."
Others have echoed this concern, pointing out that there are already an overabundance of children living in foster care, and many never get adopted. In fact, the average age of a child in the foster care system is 8 years old far older than the typical couple seeking to adopt will consider taking in. By removing opportunities for same-sex couples, critics argue, these numbers will only get worse.
Faith Flexes its Muscles
However, conservative lawmakers in Tennessee argue that this is a matter of religious freedom, and that faith-based organizations should not be forced to work with families that don't meet their moral standards.
"What we're doing is saying if you have a religious faith, we as a body are going to intervene before the courts do and we're going to stand with you and say we will stand with you in tolerance and allow you to be you."
While Tennessee's attorney general determined in 2007 there was nothing in state statutes preventing gay and lesbian couples from adopting children, this most recent legislative effort appears to be the fruit of religious lobbying efforts involving the Congressional Prayer Caucus Foundation, a group which claims its goal is to "bring back God to America."
Shaky Legal Ground
But there is another legal issue to consider: many Tennessee foster care agencies work on government contracts, meaning the proposed legislation may result in these agencies using taxpayer dollars to discriminate against same-sex couples. If so, legal experts don't expect it to hold up in court.
Chris Sanders, executive director of the Tennessee Equality Project, believes this bill "clearly opens the door to taxpayer-funded discrimination in foster care and adoption." He continues:
"If this bill becomes law, same-sex couples, people of various religious beliefs, and people with no religious beliefs now face the prospect of being turned away from adoption agencies that they helped fund because they are labeled morally or religiously objectionable, which leaves children and youth with longer wait times for permanent homes."
Even if some believe that God should have a say in determining suitable candidates for adoption, it's hard to fathom how anybody with a religious bone in their body could deny the multitude of kids in foster/adoption care the chance to find a pair of loving parents.
Does God really hate gay people so much that he'd rather foster kids grow up without a stable family?
334 comments
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Joni
Not mine lionheart but someone else who is gay who is 100% follow god she shared with thought i share
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Lionheart
??
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Joni
Maybe you will learn something who knows! Ignorance is a sad thing to live by..
We in the church have failed to remind this generation that while God is love, He also has the capacity to hate. He hates sin, and He will judge it with the fierceness of His wrath. This generation is schooled in the teaching about an indulgent, soft-hearted God whose judgments are uncertain and who coddles those who break His commandments. This generation finds it difficult to believe that God hates sin.
I tell you that God hates sin just as a father hates a rattlesnake that threatens the safety and life of his child. God loathes evil and diabolic forces that would pull people down to a godless eternity just as a mother hates a venomous spider that is found playing on the soft, warm flesh of her little baby.
It is His love for man, His compassion for the human race, that prompts God to hate sin with such a vengeance. He gave Heaven’s finest that we might have the best; and He loathes with a holy abhorrence anything that would hinder our being reconciled to Him.
What Does God Hate?
What does God hate, you ask? Solomon answers the question in the Book of Proverbs. We read: “These six things the Lord hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren” (Proverbs 6:16-19).
First, God hates a proud look. The Bible says, “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall” (Proverbs 16:18). It says, “those who walk in pride He is able to put down” (Daniel 4:37). And again the Bible says, “Behold, I am against you, O most haughty one!” (Jeremiah 50:31).
In almost every instance in the Bible, as well as in life, pride is associated with failure, not success. We hear a great deal about the inferiority complex, but the superiority complex of pride is seldom spoken of. Pride caused the fall of Lucifer, and he became Satan, the devil.
Pride keeps thousands away from Christ today. What will my friends say? What will my family think? Will my reputation be affected if I become a Christian?
Jesus said, “And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Matthew 23:12). The entrance to the Kingdom of Heaven is gained through your coming in humility.
The greatest act of humility in the history of the universe was when Jesus Christ stooped to die on the cross of Calvary. And before anyone can get to Heaven, they must kneel at the foot of the cross and acknowledge that they are a sinner, that they have broken the commandments of God and that they need the grace of God in Christ. No one can come proudly to the Savior.
Second, the Bible says that God hates a lying tongue. Where did we learn to lie? Isn’t it strange that children lie instinctively without being taught? The flagrant sins of fraud, embezzlement, slander, libel and breach of promise are the products of a lying heart.
Where did this blighting deceit come from? Jesus gave us the answer when He said to those who spoke a lie in His day, “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do” (John 8:44). Human nature was warped and twisted in the fall of Adam. But Jesus Christ, who is the truth, came saying, “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32).
Third, the Bible says that God hates hands that shed innocent blood. The sixth commandment says, “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13). Psychologists tell us that the seed of murder lurks in the heart of the most respected person.
The Bible says, “Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him” (1 John 3:15). Murder can be committed in many ways. You can murder your wife, your children and your friends by the poisonous venom of hatred and bitterness.
Not all murderers are behind bars. It so happens that only those who kill the body are punished by the law; but many who are free are just as guilty of destroying the lives, the personalities and the souls of others. The Bible says that you can strike someone with your tongue (Jeremiah 18:18). You can ruin another person’s reputation. God holds such people accountable for murder.
Fourth, the Bible says that God hates a heart that devises evil imaginations. Thought is sown in the mind before it is reaped in the field of action. The law judges sin according to the act, but God judges us according to the evil of our hearts. “Whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart,” said Jesus (Matthew 5:28).
We are living in a day when men and women’s imaginations are evil in the sight of God. The Bible says that He hates this. No person with an evil imagination can inherit the Kingdom of God. God hates evil imaginations. They lead to habits, habits lead to bondage, and bondage leads to death: “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).
Fifth, the Bible says that God hates feet that are swift in running to mischief. Evil thoughts and imagination, if nourished and fed, will eventually lead to sinful actions. There are people in every community who openly and flagrantly violate God’s law. They boast that they are not hypocrites, and they make no pretense of being good. But this does not excuse them for their wickedness.
Sixth, the Bible says that God hates a man or woman who sows discord among brethren. We seldom hear the slanderer, the libeler or the malicious gossip denounced. We have come to think that it is a harmless thing to sow discord in the office, the shop, the church or the home; but the Bible says that God hates discord and strongly denounces those who sow strife.
“Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice,” says the Bible (Ephesians 4:31). And the Bible says, “If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless” (James 1:26).
What Can We Do?
“What can we do about these dreadful traits that are in our hearts?” you ask. There is little that you can do, but there is something God has done. The secret is found in the words of the Apostle Paul: “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind” (Romans 12:2). Jesus Christ, if received into your life, can make your tongue so that it will speak only that which is good. Jesus Christ can come into your heart and transform you, change your nature, until you’ll love instead of hate. Gossiping, slandering and maligning will no longer provide pleasure.
How can this be? I’ll tell you. Christ, through His triumphant death on the cross, purchased for you a new lease on life. “I have come that they might have life,” He said (John 10:10). The Bible says, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). This is not just a theological theory; it actually works. It has worked in my own life. What is more, it will work for you. We have seen thousands of people whose lives have been transformed by the power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (see Romans 1:16). The same power of Christ can transform your life.
You say, “But Billy, I’m guilty of all the things you have mentioned today.” Yes; the Bible says, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).
But no matter how guilty you may be (you may have broken every one of the commandments), God can forgive you today because Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. Yes, God hates the evil of your heart, but He loves you. Just as a parent despises the bad behavior of their child but still loves the child, God loathes the forces that would cause you to be lost, but He loves you with an infinite love.
However, this matter of salvation is not thrust upon you; it is a gift, and it must be duly and properly received. Here is the promise on which you may put your whole trust: “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name” (John 1:12).
At this moment you can receive Christ. He will forgive every sin that you have ever committed and give you new strength, new power over the temptations of life. But first you must renounce your sins, confess them and receive Christ into your heart. Will you do that right now? You can at this moment, and He will change your life.
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Lionheart
Errrr ? Thank you for your story ? Joni, but it’s not for me. Someone else might buy it though. I like the part about the threat. Quite chilling! There have been worse stories that have sold, so you are in with a chance. You just never know these days.
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Don
Cowardly superstitious threats of damnation have no place on this page. Shame on you. Grow up.
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Joni
Don looks like you need a lot of growing up to do yourself. The story above is something a gay person wrote. Everyone has there own views is the point there on beliefs. Is that so hard to take in? Don’t pass judgment on other when can’t look at yourself and admit to yours
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Don
I'm not the one damning complete strangers for having different beliefs than I do. Grow up.
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Joni
Well that’s really adult like, Omg I’m friends with someone that don’t have the same beliefs as i do ? imagine how boring this world would be if we was all the same! No conversation, no debate, why because we are the same. No challenges because we are the same! Sounds like a world a child would wish for!
What scare you that a gay man or woman is smarter then you or that they can provide a loving home better then you can? You’re comments show you are a man of judgement, no self confidence or control. Thats sad. Surely being a man of God you would have some type of compassion.
O wait don’t bother answering I closed out this conversation. I have adults i have meetings with. Have a beautiful day and God bless!
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Joni
Who did I damn for having different beliefs? No one at all! Be a very boring world if I expected all to be the same shameful your so childish ?
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Don
"But first you must renounce your sins, confess them and receive Christ into your heart."
This is damning to every non Christian. Surely you're intelligent enough to understand this?
Also, learn how to spell "you're" before calling others childish, as it makes you look like a drooling moron. Thanks.
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Joni
Surly don let me help you with this. I except every person for who they are including gays. I have no issues people who don’t believe maybe you should reread all the comments.
Surely you would of seen under J which is me i was married to a black man. My parents was catholic, my best friend is gay, my 13 year old son is gay, im happily married to his fathers. Show me any comments i have personally condemned anyone. There isn’t one!
My point to people like you that have so much hate is sad seriously. God knows what i hold inside nothing but love for others.
O my spelling yes is an issue because i was in a car accident many years ago and suffered head trauma still learning new things but thanks for asking?
Childish fully ? have a Bless day
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Don
"maybe you should reread all the comments."
Maybe you should take your own advice and proofread yours before hitting Post Comment. The misspellings, partial sentences, and atrocious grammar would get my 8 year old grounded for a week...and possibly tested for drugs.
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Don
"I except every person for who they"
How hateful and sad for you. Instead of excepting them, try ACCEPTING them, you will find that to be more tolerable and loving.
Also, learn how to spell "surely".
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Joni
O i have 14 beautiful grandchildren! I am a mother of 7 beautiful children. They are all of mix races love them no different.
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preacher richard h.
I have 6 they are all one race Glory be To GOD
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Rev. John D. Partin
"Preacher" Richard H., you say that you have 6 grandchildren and "they are all of one race Glory be to God", which is more proof of your white racism and white supremacist belief, since, otherwise, you would be praising God for any races of grandchildren and not just one race of them!
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Joni
My son don’t need therapy and won’t force it on him as long as he happy with who he is i support that! My oldest son is black ? proud of that too God gave me great gifts i hold them close ?. Your reason for so much hate is what? I don’t have any hate! My life has been so bless with what has been given. Try it some time you may find gods peace! Have bless day .
Really is sad to see so much hate, you can never change my mind on homosexuality they are who they are like i am who i am. God see whats in your heart not what you hold on the outside what i hold on the inside is far richer then any amount of money.
God bless have a great day
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Joni
https://youtu.be/YWtPKCt9bS0
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Joni
Lionheart i am so sorry to hear that. Something i teach my children is no matter what anybody says be proud of who they are because i am always proud of them and proud to be their mother. They are very special children. They know I’ll stand by them no matter what and will fight for them.. sad people can make some one feel so ashamed they need to take their life.
This world needs a lot of love and hope. I’ll be-the first to stand for any child that needs a voice.
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Bobby Sunrider (@BSunrider)
I personally find it disgusting that people continue to use religion to spread the vile disease of bigotry. Can we please reclaim spirituality and religion as a balm of love and unity instead of as a weapon for hatred and division?
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John Owens
Of course, so long as other religions are in agreement and practicing the same. If not, we commit a type of suicide by allowing others the upper hand through our being passive.
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Don
So as long as OTHER religions are immoral and practice disgusting habits, it's okay for you? That's...just plain evil. And it explains a lot! Not to mention being the exact opposite of what Jesus taught,
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John Owens
What are you even trying to say? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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John Owens
I didn't say anything at all similar to what you are implying.
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preacher richard h.
Its a Disgusting and un-natural choice to be Gay Get on your knees to Pray. say I wont be gay just for today every morning Amen
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Joni
Thats your opinion! Don’t push it on to others! God will decide that when its time! Your job should be is to have understanding, love, compassion!
My place all are welcome ?
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preacher richard h.
Its not my opinion its GODS Word Its not love n compassion to observe sin an not try to point it out and help sinners become closer to GODS way All are welcome but if they keep on sinning over n over God says Judge with Righteous Judgement We Are God’s Messengers. When we are excited about something we want to share our joy with others by telling them the Good News. Christians not only have the responsibility to tell The Message, but also the authority and power of God Himself to proclaim it! Matthew 28:18-20 Now go and Sin no more amen
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flugo
Right on, Richard!
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Joni
1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”
Thats my last reply seriously you are wasting time on something you fear!! Learn to understand it.
Difference between you and i is I except everyone for who they are! Have a beautiful day ?
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Lionheart
Ok Richard say it, you don't need us to say it for you: "You won't be gay just for today, you won't be gay just for today, you won't be gay just for today."
Try not to beat yourself up about it. Many people are gay and are totally fine with it. We'll still love you Richard
?♥️
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preacher richard h.
If you follow my advice You can recover rom your disease and come closer to GODS Grace
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Joni
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Lionheart
What disease are you referring to Richard? Is it something that one can get a vaccination for to become well?
?❤️
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Joni
Lionheart don’t waste your time
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preacher richard h.
Homosexual behavior is the disease Just like Alcoholism you have to take steps not to partake one day at a time to go into remission There is no shot or medicine for either and neither can be cured but can go into remission Also your big advocate has been busy Long-time homosexual activist Frank Kameny’s claim to fame is successfully manipulating the American Psychiatric Association into declassifying homosexuality as a mental disorder, and today the Smithsonian honoree is now busily advocating bestiality "as long as the animal doesn’t mind." Kameny, 83, has had a long career advocating the removal of any restrictions on human acts long considered by sane societies as obscene, dangerous, and disordered... Kameny describes his mission as "Americanism in action" by advocating bestiality and encouraging the saturation of American culture with what he calls "more and better and harder-core pornography." According to Americans for Truth about Homosexuality (AFTAH), Kameny wrote an e-mail to them saying that while he was personally opposed to bestiality, he found it an otherwise "harmless" quirk, so long as it was consensual with the animal involved. "Bestiality is not my thing," Kameny wrote. "But it seems to be a harmless foible or idiosyncrasy of some people. So, as long as the animal doesn’t mind (and the animal rarely does), I don’t mind, and I don’t see why anyone else should."
the true agenda is to upturn Normal society
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Don
preacher richard h. is a prime example of what hate, bigotry, and sheer willful ignorance can do to an otherwise normal human being. Sad, pathetic, and a burden on anyone around him.
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Don
To recover from the disease of illiteracy, go back to school.
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flugo
This disease is called SIN! We inherited it from our parents. And, the shed blood of Jesus is the only remedy.
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Lionheart
Totally disagree Mr Flugo, but thank you for your opinion.
It’s my opinion that you are spreading malicious gossip, possibly inherited from your parents. If not, you have become infected by a malicious virus. There is a cure, and it doesn’t involve any god, or anyone called Jesus. It took me a while, but I can assure you it’s achievable, and you’ll be able to think a lot more clearer. You won’t be able to see that right now, because that’s how the virus works, but I can assure you there is a cure.
?❤️
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preacher richard h.
Don You right away claim Im the example of hate n bigotry but I have said Not 1 word about hate or being a bigot Its only a recent development that it was declassified as a Mental disorder and Many disagree because it was Politically motivated
A landmark event in gay history occurred on December 15, 1973 when the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder in its Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, aka DSM.
Many homosexuals would still be alive if they were seeking treatment an medication for this affliction , Instead of committing suicide or other self destructive behavior.
Seems the homosexuals in this blog are hateful n just nasty people for not understanding other views without using buzz words like Homophobe, bigot ,Christian, for 2.5% of the population you are your Group is Truly OVER Represented in society
WE Demand YOU Except The Breeders Opinion also so get over yourselves. Being GAY is a CHOICE Just like that 1st drink an Alcoholic takes or doesn't
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Joni
It’s not completely known why someone might be lesbian, gay, straight, or bisexual. But research shows that sexual orientation is likely caused partly by biological factors that start before birth.
People don’t decide who they’re attracted to, and therapy, treatment, or persuasion won’t change a person’s sexual orientation. You also can’t “turn” a person gay. For example, exposing a boy to toys traditionally made for girls, such as dolls, won’t cause him to be gay.
You probably started to become aware of who you’re attracted to at a very young age. This doesn’t mean that you had sexual feelings, just that you could identify people you found attractive or liked. Many people say that they knew they were lesbian, gay, or bisexual even before puberty.
Although sexual orientation is usually set early in life, it isn’t at all uncommon for your desires and attractions to shift throughout your life. This is called “fluidity.” Many people, including sex researchers and scientists, believe that sexual orientation is like a scale with entirely gay on one end and entirely straight on the other. Lots of people would be not on the far ends, but somewhere in the middle.
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preacher richard h.
They probably had a Deviant around them at the time clouding their judgement at a young age. TV n Movies are pushing Homosexual activity on young people the same way they push Mixed Race to couple up like it is wide spread n normal Its still a choice to have homosexual relations an shouldn't be pushed on Heterosexuals as some sort of Right to intrude on a majority of Americans
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Joni
You have an issue with mixed race as well?????
Wow. I was married to a black man and my oldest son is bi-racial. This will blow your mind ready for this??? My youngest son who 13 year old is gay. I’m married to his father, I love him no different. I really hope you fine some love and peace in your life.
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Lionheart
I’m proud of you J for raising such a wonderful son. I’m sure he’s an amazing sensitive person worthy of all your love.
?❤️
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preacher richard h.
J You made a choice , Mixed Race is not something I would choose It is natural for people of the same tribes to want to be with those that are like themselves, The way they live, act , talk , worship , it makes them more comfortable, and trusting This is human nature. from the very beginning . And all the Forced Diversity gov. saddles people with wont change that. as far as your 13 year old is concerned 13 is too young to form his life long preference no matter how much the Gov. n Hollywood try to force homosexuality on Our young people. But there is still hope he may grow out of it. And your suppose to love your kid. I would get him therapy for sure. Hope your satisfied to never have a grand kid And he is Not BIRACIAL Census Burro considers him Black, Just a point.
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Rev. John D. Partin
So, "preacher" richard h., you not only "think" that homosexual marriage is "wrong", but also that mixed marriage of any kind (interracial, interethnic, etc.) Is "wrong" and has also "been pushed on people"!! Well, that figures, since most homophobes are also racists, due to skin color's being a more obvious difference between people than sexual preferences. Did you know that religious belief has been considered a mental illness, subtly here and more blatantly in the former Soviet Union (and, in cases such as yours and the Inquisitors, it certainly should have remained being thought of as a mental illness because that fits it!!)?!!
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preacher richard h.
Long-time homosexual activist Frank Kameny’s claim to fame is successfully manipulating the American Psychiatric Association into declassifying homosexuality as a mental disorder, and today the Smithsonian honoree is now busily advocating bestiality "as long as the animal doesn’t mind." Kameny, 83, has had a long career advocating the removal of any restrictions on human acts long considered by sane societies as obscene, dangerous, and disordered... Kameny describes his mission as "Americanism in action" by advocating bestiality and encouraging the saturation of American culture with what he calls "more and better and harder-core pornography." According to Americans for Truth about Homosexuality (AFTAH), Kameny wrote an e-mail to them saying that while he was personally opposed to bestiality, he found it an otherwise "harmless" quirk, so long as it was consensual with the animal involved. "Bestiality is not my thing," Kameny wrote. "But it seems to be a harmless foible or idiosyncrasy of some people. So, as long as the animal doesn’t mind (and the animal rarely does), I don’t mind, and I don’t see why anyone else should."
This is the TRUE Agenda for deviant behavior
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Joni
Your okay with bestiality but not gays that’s nasty ?
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Joni
What animal can say yes
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Joni
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Headstone-Honoring-Gay-Right-Pioneer-Frank-Kameny-Unveiled-at-Congressional-Cemetery-346315842.html?amp=y ??
Thank you lionheart he worth every part of me and one of the most sweetest kids i know.
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Lionheart
I lost a similar grandchild only last week to suicide, not much older than your son. Take good care of him, honor him for his choices, and most of all, keep loving him. They are very special spirits.
?♥️
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Francophone
To care that another being is Living his/her experience is to stifle your urge to live yours. You cannot live in a world without homosexuality because it is a real human physiological trait. And if you say it is not then you must agree that it is a free choice no different than choosing a color. Otherwise you are tied up trying to prove homosexuality is detrimental to participate in it or not. If it hurts anyone or not. In this case you then have a Bible that sYs it is OK for Moses to kill countless baby boys, women and men and take 35,000 little girls into sex bondage and commit child molestation, rape, and good knows what other perversion moses had in store for these kids
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preacher richard h.
J NO I posted this info to Inform about a GAY RIGHTS Advocate that fought for Your cause and NOW he fights for Bestiality The Homosexual leader now wants Ya'll to do it with animals. were does it end. Pedophilia? That's why Gays should not adopt an innocent kid to mold in their image.
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Tom B
Bobby...agreed...Tom B
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Joni
The remarks made on this is very concerning! You claim to be a preacher, or a follower of Jesus. But you set here and do what the bible tells not to.
Why would it matter to any of you who a person lays next to? Shouldn’t, not your home not your life!
Some of my good friends are just that and raised children who are married to the other sex! Loving caring strong marriages!The person that thinks you can change being gay by saying I’m not, needs a lot of education!
Each one that sets and judges is shameful not our place to do so!
People that don’t believe in Jesus that’s your opinion keep as that! People who there is a higher power don’t shove it down other people throat!
Be respectful to others, loving, understanding, listening goes a very long way.
Rev
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flugo
'rev'?: It's too bad a 'rev' doesn't know what he/she talking about. Nor our place to judge, eh?
Jesus told us how to judge. John 7:24 He also, told us to rebuke. Luke 17:3. We are to be discerning, evaluative and to rightly judge.
So, 'rev', I hope your congregation is more discerning of truth than you obviously are.
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Joni
You must be one bored person. Continue to read your missing a lot!! Have a blessed night!!
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Joni
Matthew 7:1-5
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
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Norma Battes
Seems the question is does an entity have a right to discriminate by religion. I say yes. If a business can say no entry without shoes, it can do so for head covering. As a private entity it is their choice. HOWEVER(!), if that entity is required government compliance whether certifications, licences, or funding to legally operate, then federal and state anti-discrimination laws and regulations come into play. Do business as you wish, you just won't have your health certificate. Or fire code compliance. Or .... Now, this story is about LGBT issues. What will people say about a Muslin being turned away from a christian agency? But wait, how about a Protestant refusing a Catholic? The religion(and sexual) neutral Federal government can only say, do as you wish but funding for child services, education programs, senior assistance or anything else you applied for is denied. No? This isn't about gay or not gay. This is about attempting to change a fundamental tenet of the Constitution, a government free from religious bias.
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tedmacgillivray
Laurie Cleveland, Bravo!
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Gary Minnis
Stoodie Baker, I understand how evidence works. I grow weary of Don being a consistent troll. I am fine with his lack of belief. I am just sick of seeing him berate and name call. He's a bully. If he can ask for proof of my deity, I can ask for proof of his claim that mine is a fairy tail.
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Secretary3rd
If you believe in a God the other side of that is a Devil. You can deal with me on a sane level as a God fearing person or deal with me as the Devil.You pray to your God that I do not have you struck by lighting. Have your house infest by flies, have your daughter sleep with half of the football team. If you will not serve me in your place of business then you shall see my wrath upon your house. Lice be upon you. If any adoption accepts any funds from the US government and or a 501(c) (3) status then it does not matter what their religion values are they must fellow government guidelines.
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Bill Fox
The responsibility for the child falls first to the biological father and mother. Historically, widows and orphans have not faired well in religious based societies. The Bible speaks of the responsibility of the Priest to be responsible for the care and support of widows and orphans, and the tithe is in part, for that purpose. In the US the government has taken over that responsibility. It is a secular function to care for orphans, that is, those children who have been abandoned by their parents. There is no religious aspect of secular functions. As much as one's religion cries against lifestyle issues, it is up to the state. If you don't like this, then foster and adopt as many orphans as you possibly can.
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Joni
So God said to Noah, “I have decided to destroy all living creatures, for they have filled the earth with violence. Yes, I will wipe them all out along with the earth!" (Gen. 6:13, NLT)
“Look! I am about to cover the earth with a flood that will destroy every living thing that breathes. Everything on earth will die." (Gen. 6:17, NLT)
"There must be a male and a female in each pair to ensure that all life will survive on the earth after the flood. Seven days from now I will make the rains pour down on the earth. And it will rain for forty days and forty nights, until I have wiped from the earth all the living things I have created.” (Gen. 7:3b-4, NLT)
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Lionheart
God! Every mans best friend, but don’t get him angry, he has a real mean streak in him.
I knew a boy at school that was just like God. No one liked him, but no one dared tell him, or pick a fight with him, because he’d bonk you on the nose. He could be real mean too! The only friends he had were the ones that were scared of him. Just like God and his friends I guess!
?❤️
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Francophone
Number 3:17 "So now, kill all the boys, and kill every woman who has had relations with a man, 18but spare for yourselves every girl who has never had relations with a man. " MOses was a sex slave trading Hitler character. A pagan whose personal God became the god of the ISraelites after who lead the attack and preached that it was OK for the Israelite's to enslave ancient Egyptians because his god said all other races were bad poeople. The Israel Seed took down ancient Egypt with raids of slavery, selling sex slaves to the Arabs, something they still do today. Hence Hitler's Final Solution. The only culture that Israelite know is slavery. The Hijab was created so that Arabs could travel with their captured slave women without anyone identifying them. Israel is the scourge of th earth. After the ancient Egyptians fled into Africa they massive slave trade stopped. They then turned to working as farm hands in Europe, still kidnapping people there and selling them to the Middle east. Then technology allowed and a new slave market opened in the Americas They Israelite Seed resumed trading the Ancient Egyptians that had then moved into central Africa. The Israelite horde led this slavery for another 400 years. Then it was abolished, they lost heir largest slave client in the new world and resume selling Europeans to England. When the English stopped they began selling Europeans to Arabs. The Arabs forbade them from selling Christians to Arabs. The The English had had enough of losing their women and children and helped the slave capturing kidnapping Jews to create there own country. No one wants to be their neighbor because everywhere they go so does slavery. The New Testament is actually a recorded document proving the fake trials the Israelite had as a pretext to kill all young ancient Egyptian men who had reach the age of Atate Yesous which simply means a 30 year old in Ancient Egyptian. That is why you have those mass graves in Egypt with yourn men that age. The Israelites took the Ancient Egyptian book of Light and made it into the Tolah or old testament, changing its contents to reflect their paganism. aka the Tanakh wich is the symbol of the Ankh which was a book of Ancient Egyptian logic etc, Ironic fact, Moses was the son of An ancient Egyptian Slave. So he was a half bredd that led to the enslavement and mass murder of his Mother's People. The Irony here is that So was Hitler. A Pagan of One God is a Pagan of 1000 gods. Moses brought Monotheism to the world which is simply a one god version of Polytheism. A pagan is a pagan in the same way a Box is a Box no matter how much you will it to be a ball. To someone from another planet the logical pattern of a sorcerer is the same logical pattern of a Jew, same logical pattern of a Christian It is the emotion you put in the word pagan that changes, but the pgan is in the act of believing blindly in something that is not there because someone says it is. Good Day
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John
The God I understand doesn't hate anyone. Have a glorious day.
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Joni
Agree
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flugo
'joh-knee and jo-knee': Why don't you do your homework? The holy, righteous, loving, forgiving and eternal God HATES!
Psalm 10:31 God hates the coveter. John 3:36 God's wrath is hanging over the errant. Psalm 11:5 God hates the wicked. And, there are many other references of His hatred . . . . especially sin.
Please don't embarrass yourself and the viewers with your false 'opinions'!
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Joni
It’s Joni, the God i know don’t hate, sorry you don’t carry the same faith or the same God i know! But i do wish you peace:)
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flugo
'jo-knee': The 'god' you know is NOT the god of the Bible. Sorry about that!
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Joni
Flugo you sound pretty bitter. You research what that means. You will find he didn’t hate the person but the wicked ways they was living. Education
God bless
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flugo
'jo-knee'; 'Education'? Alright, show me evidence that God didn't hate the person.
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Joni
First you shouldn’t troll, second spell my name right Joni, 3 you know so much your not looking to educate yourself. Unfortunately for your part, I don’t anger, I forgive, i love, as i said Read more dig for the meaning of the scripture you will find what you are so desperately seeking! Only God can open your eyes to what you need to see. Have a wonderful night
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flugo
'jo-knee': Discarding all your 'smoke', peripheral issues and avoidance distortions, please show me in the Scriptures that God never hated the 'person'. This is my second request.
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Lionheart
Yes, the ones he did hate he drowned in the great flood and other biblical events, so that took care of them. He can love the rest of us, if he exists at all. ?
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Joni
Thats your opinion I respect that as for my opinion you should do the same have. Beautiful day
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Joni
James 4:11-12 ESV
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
James 1:26 ESV
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Titus 3:1-15 ESV
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, ...
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flugo
Right on!
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Joni
Yes look in the mirror, write down what you see! God would never speak such hateful words as he said you are all my children.
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Jimmy Moon
If any of you need proof of a real GOD, look in the mirror. We are all created in HIS image. And no,sodomites are not good parents. You need ONE MAN ONE WOMAN .
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Lionheart
Great analogy Jimmy. So, my wife was wondering if he has breasts, and a vagina “and” a penis, which would make him an ideal candidate for being an hermaphrodite I guess. What do you think?
Also, if he has a navel, I’m wondering who his mom and dad are. Any thoughts Jimmy?
?❤️
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Rev. Minister Pope Ningo
Unfortunately all the comments above are wrong, as a Ordained Minister Pope of the Universal Life Church there is an imbalance here with homosexuality and I have been sent from above to fix it. Simply what needs to be done is we just need to kill them. Glory to to all that I consider holy and good. I hope that you all see the light and join me in my righteous quest to destroy the homosexual people and ensure that they never try to adopt. Thank you have a blessed day.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Have you people here read this INSANE!! post by "Reverend Minister" Poop Nincompoop above in which he says that he was "sent from above to fix the problem" of homosexuality by just "killing them all" and you really have nothing to say to this crazy fool or are you just ignoring him because he is too sick to rebuke and denounce?!! He is a very SICK!! person, but so was Hitler, who also believed that "God had told him to kill off all kinds of people", but that didn't stop people from rebuking, denouncing, and condemning him, and even fighting a war to stop him! Serial killers were also sick people who couldn't just be ignored and hope that they would go away, but had to be stopped. Nincompoop above here probably will never get as far as Hitler or the serial killers got, but still needs to be denounced and rebuked and not just be ignored and hope that he will go away or change, just on the general principle of opposing IDIOCY!!! Besides, he just might get somewhere with his sick ideas, as other people like him have! Let's nip him in the bud first!!
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Joni
Some women and men couples can’t either so your point is what?
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preacher richard h.
Well A man n women couple is Normal anything else is abnormal an deviant Choice
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Joni
No they both get help from Doctors. Nothing different ? education
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Troy
Two gay folks can’t make baby’s on their own, odviously they shouldn’t be given.
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Norma Battes
Troy April 17, 2019 at 6:11 am " Two gay folks can’t make baby’s on their own, odviously they shouldn’t be given. "
Oh poopy. You're a dismal failure, yet God still gave you a life.. And gay parents are doing better with their kids than you are with your brain. Obviously.
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Myrna Alvarado
God said NOTHING specifically about Homosexuality. Jesus said NOTHING specifically about homosexuality. Pedofilia, incest, rape; these are things that God and Jesus and the prophets spoke of. It’s only considered “abnormal” because men who say they’re speaking for God said so.
God and Jesus wouldn’t want any child to suffer. That was another thing specifically mentioned. If a child needs a happy home, then they should have a happy home, simple.
Render unto Caesar...
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Lionheart
"God and Jesus wouldn’t want any child to suffer. That was another thing specifically mentioned. If a child needs a happy home, then they should have a happy home, simple."
Unless of course your god gets angry, then he can drown them, or, to please his sadistic side for an added thrill, he can kill the first born of every male boy. Just saying!
?♥️
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disregard
I'm really too old to care about any of these comments although I think some were well thought out and others have a little more high school to finish. I, myself, will follow my Lord. I had too many things happen to me while in Vietnam to believe in coincidence. I firmly believe God put an entire herd of Angel's on my shoulders at birth and I've certainly kept them busy. I just find it hard to believe so many people have posted such nastiness. Let me settle this my way. God bless each of you. We celebrate his resurrection this weekend. What ever your belief is there is no doubt in my mind regardless of your belief or non belief He is Risen!
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Joni
Lets look at this open eyes really. 1. Who gives anyone a right to judge? 2. Doesn’t the bible state we should love one another as we love ourselves?
- What is unnatural? Because someone gay? You ever think man and women is unnatural to them?
You ever sit and have a conversation with someone that’s attracted to the same sex? I have they believe in God just as much as we do! You can’t change how the brain is wired. If you could why change who they really are? I am a minister, what I believe is God way is just how he made each person! I believe our true sins is when you follow evil. Meaning you follow someone other then Jesus! You commit a crime knowing its wrong. Being gay isn’t a crime nor do we have a right to judge how someone feels or who they love.
Rev.
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Carrie
I am sick and tired of the stupid people who use "Christian" text to justify hate. You are little better than the white supremeists and nazi jerks who seek to control the country. You low life people are gone! You are in the minority! You, like the dinosaur, (of course you don't believe in them, Arch Bishop Ussher said the bones were planted by your hate mongering god) are soon to be extinct! More and more, people are turning their backs on your child molesting, murder promoting "religion". Homosexuals, lesbians, Trans, bi...they have been on this earth far longer than you or your stupid "god"! Marriage is another thing you assholes think you have cornered the market on! It just ain't so! It has been around since long before you cockroaches crept into our kitchens! Get over yourselves! Jesus was the New Testament, not some hand picked crap from the Talmud! I am a Witch...we have been around since long before you parasites rose too! This site is for discussion...you turn it into a hate fest! Please, for all of our sakes, launch yourselves into deep space and leave this world in peace!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
Wow Carrie, well stated. It is a disgrace isn't' it that some folks here who pretend to be ministers, do not take our ULC seriously or the accomplishments of ULC to embrace ALL people and to stand against discrimination of the LGBTQ community of brothers and sisters. Those poor people you refer to are lost and low vibration spirits who have no clue where they originally came from nor how to love one another. They are incapable of love and compassion and live in utter fear. Those who are not ULC ministers are a bunch of trolls who come here to stir up their brand of trash talk. Thanks for your comment Carrie.
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flugo
Wow, 'caries', well stated! Your comments clearly illustrated your ignorance, bias, emotive generalizations and lack of scholarship.. Very little facts; immense amount of flatulence. And, your comments are, also, evidence of your decency, femininity, grace, refinement, womanhood.
- Christians do not seek to 'control the country'. A lie.
- Jesus hated sin. He told people to repent. He judged the actions and intents of others. He encouraged us to judge, as well.
- You have failed to make the drastic distinction between 'religion' and 'Christianity'.
- So, you witches, LGBTQxyz-ers have been around a long time. So what? So has lying, ignorance, sin, corruption, war,
etc. Longevity is NO proof of validity or value. - Christians do NOT think they have cornered the marriage market. A lie.
Your posting is evidence you need to consider your eternal destiny. The 'Jesus', to which you referred, is lovingly urging you to repent and trust Him.
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Carrie
Poppycock! You seem to have a lot of sewage floating around that tiny little brain. The Bible was rewritten so many times by biased individuals and no one knows which fable to fall for. The "evangelicals" in this country are true Nazis. And your god? Love me or I will kill you! Find something better to smoke. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
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Don
Just ignore flugo, Carrie. It's one of the more vulgar, racist, homophobic coward trolls that lurk on this site. It's like an itchy rash - ignore it and it goes away.
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flugo
'caries': Why are you referencing the Bible in your 11 April comment: 'Jesus was the New Testament, not some handpicked . . . . . '. Yet, you mention the Biblical 'fables' in your 16 Apr diatribe.
Which aspects of the Bible are fables? Which are not? Good scholarship says you can't have it both ways. The best remedy for you is to look to your 'Jesus the New testament. for forgiveness and salvation-
Carrie
Bull... The Bible is a travesty of porn and blood. You fools cherry pick lines to justify your hatred of mankind. I am glad I am not human, glad I am not"Christian", Glad I won't be going to that true hell you call " heaven". You make any reasonable being I'll!
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Thomas Lippert
You ar right. Never mind the leftists
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Laurie Cleveland
Amen.
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John Owens
Having never been an orphan, or been in charge of an orphan, I have no way of knowing what the orphans really think about this, but I IMAGINE that most children would be DELIGHTED to leave the orphanage to go and live with two doting parents, and, being children, would not be judgmental about their parents' sexual proclivities.
In this day and age, so many people are so damaged by abuse in different forms, bad parenting, bad decision-making, poor educations, substance abuse, crime, apathy, and just plain narcissism, it would be very difficult to say that one couple would make better parents than another. I would never consider myself pro-LGBTQ, but I have known some really really nice men who were gay, were not molesters of children, who would probably make EXCELLENT parents. I have also known some lesbian women who seem to be excellent parents.
I think the children may well be much better off in the custody of two gay men than many modern heterosexual couples. Being heterosexual does not in and of itself make anyone a better parent. or a better person than anyone else. Some heterosexual couples are the epitome of evil.
Just observations.
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Tom B
John...well said...Peace... Tom B
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John Owens
Thanks, Tom, and Peace right back at you.
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preacher richard h.
Its Sick n Getting Sicker Here's a thought If the Homosexuals n Lesbians are born that way as claimed. Then lets determine witch of the little orphans are Straight and have normal people adopt them an the deviants can adopt other like minded Little deviants
That works right?
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Don
Or we can just take all the ignorant cowardly hatemongers who call others 'deviants' and toss them off a cliff. That works, right?
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John Owens
Works for me.
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Joni
Wow a preacher speaking such hateful words definitely not a man of God. A man of God would give compassion, understanding, love . Nothing less. Bible says do not judge. You’re fear of not understanding others being different is sad.
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flugo
'journey': "Bible says do not judge." You'd do yourself and the viewers a favor if you were objective, accurate and unbiased in your comments.
The Bible has numerous passages teaching us to be discerning, critically astute, and judgmental. In John 7:24, Jesus teaches us how to judge. Luke 17:3 finds Jesus exhorting us to rebuke.
It's common sense that in life we are to use discernment, evaluation and judgment when addressing attitudes and behavior. It's a God-given capability and responsibility with which He's entrusted us .
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Joni
Not judgment stating the facts difference research learn it ?
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Lionheart
Who cares what the Bible says anyway? Most of it is just a load of superstitious, fictional, and mythical junk. You can quote it as much as you like, and I can quote Alice In Wonderland, but what does it prove? Absolutely nothing!
?♥️
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Tom B
Respectfully...the Bill discriminates against the children...this is not a "moral" issue; it one of ethics...do not deprive children of loving homes because a group of legislators do not understand or abide by the ethics of compassion...Tom B
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Ben
Let's cut the sh*t! These children need homes. As long as the parents aren't convicted criminals, or Trump supporters, let them adopt.
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Rev. Brien
ROFLMAO...two thumbs up
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Rev. Brien
Ok, I have read, threw up, and read some more. I am not surprised that the religious zealots are trying to badly quote their beliefs from some poorly translated book, which seems to be where they find their beliefs. First, belief comes from your heart, not some damn book. God gave you NOTHING. Man created his way, good and bad. Get over it already. Beliefs show in your actions. Those that show open hearts and minds look like good people. Those of you that hate because some damn book told you so look like assholes. I am tired of trying to sugar coat this so you zealots won't get offended. Frankly, I no longer care if you are offended or not. You don't care about anything else except some old book. Guess what? The world is waking up and deciding that you zealots are far to hateful to deal with, so the world is beginning to think for itself without you. You don't get to decide who can and who can't love. That is far beyond your control. Eventually, you and your bad ideas will be gone. My soul will celebrate that day. Children need homes, and love. If you prevent that, then YOU ARE EVIL. Remember, your actions show your true beliefs.
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Lionheart
You are right on Brien. Religion is starting to take a nose dive at last in the right direction. People are starting to wake up to the stupid ideologies of religions. The secular humanists that I know are more caring and loving than many of these zealots who preach doom and gloom, and eternal blackmail, from that pathetic book. Children do indeed need homes of love, and caring, and hopefully well away from religion and all of its stupid religious indoctrination.
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Rev. Brien
Lionheart, I don"t know about you, but I for one am so tired of the wacko zealots thinking that they speak truth and law. The only thing that ever comes out of their mouth is ignorance and hate. I use to blame this on the poorly understood and mostly abused system of organized religion, but now I just believe that they are complete assh*les that just need to be swept under some dusty carpet. Maybe we need to ignore them, make them completely irrelevant so that the rest of us can get on with life. Every day I see it, and every day I feel soiled by it. It no longer even matters what the topic is for as long as we still have nutjobs making the rules, we will all be soiled by them. I just need to close my eyes now and drink my coffee.
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Gerardo Defendini
OK here's my take: I think immorality can be present or absent in both Heterosexual and Homosexual households. One only has to look at the news to confirm this. I think everyone should have the same rights regardless of the sexual orientation. The couple will have a mush harder job to do because society's insistence on judging them but they should have the same rights as you and I. Period.
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Don
Not society's insistence, just a hateful, vocal group of religious bigots. Let's not group these mongrels in with good, decent people.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
You are so right Laurie, we do live in a nation founded on the principles of discrimination and unfortunately, some people will never evolve spiritually, nor will they walk the talk of their teacher..
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
Thank you Lord
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Don
You're welcome.
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Lionheart
????
You beat me to it Don!
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Laurie Cleveland
Ffirst of all, there is a thing called separation of church and state. This is one of the founding principles of the United States. Secondly, Yeshua didn't discriminate against those who were gay. The idea that a gay couple would raise their children to be gay is ridiculous. There are many studies that have been conducted to prove this fact. So many children need families to be apart of. This is a classic example of discrimination. For a country that was founded on freedom of discrimination, it seems that we have forgotten that. I don't have a problem with a store saying no, based on true belief, and notice that I said true belief. This is just another example of rights being taken away. I don't like it and it certainly isn't a Christian thing to do. It hurts more than the adults involved, it also hurts the children and that is terrible.
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preacher richard h.
The country wasn't founded on freedom of Discrimination primarily founded for Freedom of religion That we didn't get from England, an France n Spain also were an influence
I think People think Families in America are like the way Hollywood n the media portray them shows like Modern Family is nothing like a modern Christian family and it corrupts society n the youth
Kids should be adopted or placed with a women n a man BOTH bring different life lessons kids benefit from to make a Healthy adult in spirit , mind , and body
what's next adoption by pedophiles? or those that practice Bestiality? They claim they were born like that
We have free will to choose how we act or who we lay with
Just say " I Won't be Gay just for Today" and then Recovering homosexuals can Create their OWN BABIES.
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Don
"Kids should be adopted or placed with a women n a man"
A woman IN A MAN? Talk about unnatural!
Also, you are one sick filthy piece of trash for equating homosexuality to bestiality or pedophilia...there's this little thing called CONSENT. The fact that you don't understand it makes me worry for any children under your care.
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Don
Such ignorance. More proof Christianity is cancer.
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Don
How cute. The "preacher" doesn't know the difference between two consenting adults, and an adult molesting a child or an animal. Which tells us all we really need to know about this mongrel. Hopefully he doesn't have access to children...or pets.
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Don
"faith-based organizations should not be forced to work with families that don’t meet their moral standards."
Silly homophobes. Sexual orientation is NOT A MORAL STANDARD. Abusing children IS. How about you work on THAT one first? That way you won't all look like a bunch of ignorant hypocrites. Thanks.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
Yes! Don.
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Francophone
Don, I could not agree with you more. Here we have religious people hating Gays and Lesbians who are consenting, but they swear by Moses who boats to have taken 35,000 virgins. One requirement ot being a virgin is to be a child. So in essence these religious folks rather follow a child molester, and rapist killer of babies than allow a gay person to adopt a child. Numbers 31
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flugo
'phat toe': Hey! How 'bout coming up with the Scriptural reference of Moses and the 35,000 virgins. I'm waiting!
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flugo
'dun': You're right! The sexual orientation of the LGBTQxyz-ers is not a moral standard . . . it'a an IMMORAL standard!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
This is just another attempt of misguided hypocrites forcing their religious ideology on everyone else. Quite frankly, it is a clear demonstration of how little these people have spiritually evolved. Pathetic that this is even a conversation in 2019. I left formalized religion a long time ago due to the hypocrisy, discrimination, and promotion of fear of others who are different and their belief that only THEY had the answers and only They had the direct line to their god. These are the same people who might "sin" all week and then believe they are forgiven by their angry, jealous and vengeful creator on Sundays. I also find it most interesting that people like this are so concerned about what others do rather than them spending time in contemplation to sort out how they can be more loving, more giving and more compassionate in congruence with their lord and savior. Jesus Christ's teachings. "We are all Children of the Universe."
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
Its not religion. Its biology. Get real and up to date. Just cause they show movies and tv shows flaunting the sick life style does not make it right. Its a sickness with no known cure.......
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Don
Your ignorance and vile immorality are a sickness. Luckily for you, there are several cures available, but they all require learning how much of an ignorant bigot you really are, so it may take some effort. But you can do it, I have faith in you!
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
And the Angels sang.......
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Don
And the child molesting vermin all died... Oh, sorry! That wasn't meant as a personal attack. But if the shoe fits...
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
To you it is a sickness, to the rest of us, it is the diversity of life made by our Creator. You get real and up to date sweetheart. It is not ok to discriminate against a part of the population of the world. Movies and TV??? "Our mandate: "We are children of the Universe". "Lifestyle"??? Hardly a lifestyle. No one would chose to live in the path of constant harassment, hatred and discrimination. What religion? Certainly not what Jesus Christ taught.
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
Really, show me the scripture involving gays...
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Don
Mark 14:51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him: 52: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.
Mark 15:3 And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.
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John Owens
PFFT! Nothing there about being gay, though it is a funny story.
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preacher richard h.
Michael an John Owens
Here are a Few to Start off.
Leviticus 20:13 ESV If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Leviticus 18:22 ESV You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Romans 1:26-27 ESV / For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Romans 13:8-10 ESV Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1 Corinthians 6:9 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
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Lionheart
Don’t you just love all these threats from this wonderfully sick man made deity?
You’d never get stories like this from a Goddess. Isis was very loving and she adored Osiris, but that’s a story for another time.
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John Owens
Richard, I was replying to Don's comment. I was not referring to scripture as a whole, which these people try to twist and tell outright lies about.
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Don
"I was not referring to scripture as a whole, which these people try to twist and tell outright lies about."
As opposed to John Owens, who simply pretends entire chapters don't exist. The clown still denies any child murder or rape in Scripture,.
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preacher richard h.
Oh Lord be with you the Devil also twisted the scripture and is always tempting Christians
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John Owens
I categorically deny any approval of child-rape in the scripture, Don, and you are a jack-ass for mischaracterizing both the scripture and me.
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Don
"I categorically deny any approval of child-rape in the scripture" Wow. You continue to deny what is there plainly for everyone to see. Disturbing.
Do you also deny that Muhammed murdered and raped? Because the words Murder and Rape are not anywhere in the Qur'an, so, using your logic, it never happened...right?
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John Owens
I have not discussed Mohammed's murders and/or rapes. I have discussed what is written in the scripture, and what you say is not written in the scripture.
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preacher richard h.
What you call Discrimination an bigotry, and "GETTING Up to DATE" This just a Sinners way of Denying The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. This way Everyday is a party n Every meal a Feast with no Consequences (SO Ya'll Think) What you people call Harassment , Is your in ear shot of a Christian doing his duty as commanded by Jesus, to spread his word to the world an each person on it n Hopefully bring another soul to Christ Yes its a Choice or a mental disorder to Mutilate ones body into something it is not or to Lay with the same sex It is a choice, or compulsion to do it, Its likened to what an Alcoholic goes threw every day but stop n the compulsion will fade
Just say I wont be Gay Just for Today Do that everyday an you will be in Remission ,
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Lionheart
“Yes it’s a Choice or a mental disorder to Mutilate one’s body into something it’s not”
That’s why I disagree with your gods decision to circumcise. It was a mental decision by him. It was just not necessary.
As for your daily mantra, I do say daily “I won’t be religious, I won’t be religious “ and i can attest it does work, but I’m thinking it won’t work for biological issues such as heterosexuality, or homosexuality.
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preacher richard h.
Actually religion means a guide that helps you in the ups and downs of your life. It is but a Divine Guidance. Faith is a firm belief in the religion and it's teachings. you say biological issues Others claim it is a Mental disorder to do unnatural acts. Homosexuality is a result of a weak mind an usually a life style of a selfish minded person
Well Christ was circumcised, n we are to be more Christ like. plus Dr's say its healthier
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Lionheart
Just Googled the data Richard, and apparently there is an average death rate of 119 boys each year from circumcision. Why am I thinking it wasn’t healthy for those boys?
If it wasn’t healthy, one would have thought a real god worth his salt would have taken care of that during creation.
For some reason it seems it’s ok for other primates to keep their foreskin intact. Unless somewhere in lost scriptures there’s a paragraph saying all primates should be circumcised because it’s unhealthy for them to keep it, but somehow I doubt it, don’t you?
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Don
Doctors do NOT say it is healthier. Wasn't Jesus against lying? SO STOP LYING. But thank you for admitting your god has a mental disorder.
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Joni
Philippians 4:8 ESV /
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Luke 6:37 ESV
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
Psalm 50:19-21 ESV
“You give your mouth free rein for evil, and your tongue frames deceit. You sit and speak against your brother; you slander your own mother's son. These things you have done, and I have been silent; you thought that I was one like yourself. But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you.
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John Owens
Joni,
Thank you for quoting that.
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Carrie
Considering that there are more children in need of adoption than there are couples who seek to adopt, this is both negligent, and short sighted. Gay couple are, in many cases, better parents than straight couples. They seek to adopt out of love for a child and should be allowed if they are able and willing to raise children with love and support. Since marriage is recognized in all 50 states, they should be treated like any married couple! It has nothing to do with religion and has everything to do with the common good of the children.
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
Totally disagree. A gay atmosphere is not a moral conducive atmosphere to raise a child.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
How do you know that? What is a "gay atmosphere"? Is that one of love, care, compassion, understanding child development and making sure the child receive the utmost of basic needs in addition to building self confidence? Am truly curious how you come to this conclusion. Not bashing you for you belief, just curious.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
So what is a "gay atmosphere"? How does one know if it is or is not a "conducive atmosphere to raise a child"? Have you ever spent time with a gay couple in their home? I doubt. I agree with Carrie 100%.
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
Doesn a wife or husband show their love .So do GAYS. Have been in many homes as a ac tech and have seen it all.
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Lionheart
Considering your god doesn’t know what a moral conducive atmosphere is from the amount of people he has killed, especially children, where do you get your morals from Michael?
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
From Jesus Christ the true savior.
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Don
Wow. So you're okay with beating slaves (Luke 12:47-48) and murdering nonbelievers (Luke 19:27)? Because those things are not only illegal, they're evil and immoral.
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Lionheart
Michael reads his bible through rose colored glasses Don. He only sees what he wants to see.
He’s more than likely reading from the King James Bible, which few haven’t realized, or don’t want to know ?, that King James was gay. And that’s ok with me, I’m sure he was a very nice man. He had a very limp handshake, but that’s ok, some do ?
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preacher richard h.
DON references LUKE as a GOD that is okay with whipping slaves or murdering an he is very confused MY Guess is he or many don't understand Jesus spoke in parables to get his point across. Used the slave one to point out the difference between a man who much has been give (The HOLY SPIRIT ) and one who doesn't have it or even knows the word of GOD. Its about How we will be Judged.
Luke 12:47-48 47"The servant who knows the master's will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
But these mine enemies, that would not that I should reign over them bring hither, and slay them before me. See Luke 19:14. A reference in the first instance to the Jews who were citizens of Christ's kingdom and who were justly destroyed for rejecting him when he ascended his throne. A reference in the second instance to all the inhabitants of the globe who are all in his kingdom and who shall be destroyed at his coming if they had rejected him. It is a fearful thing to contemplate the destruction of sinners, but it is more fearful to think of sin, rebellion, and uncleanness being tolerated forever.
"These mine enemies." This portrays the fate, not of church members, but of those who would not have the Lord reign over them. It embraces all the impenitent
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Don
It's both sad and pathetic the mental gymnastics some Christians will do to excuse the atrocities and immorality in the Bible.
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John Owens
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=fFq_MGf3sbk
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Don
Golly! More youtube "evidence" from John Owens where all the comments are disabled. But only insane conspiracy theorists, flat-earthers, and Creationists with no evidence disable comments, so why...
Oh. Right.
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John Owens
THERE IT IS!! Proof that Don is a troll! He said "flat-earthers!" A troll! Only a troll talks about flat-earthers!
TO EVERYONE EXCEPT DON:
See, this is how some people try to look intellectual: They pick an argument, then they just make up something ridiculous, or pull it out of their backside, but something that has nothing to do with anything, THEN they tear THAT apart, and figuratively say, "VOILA!," as if they have actually done something. "Look at me! I'm such a prissy little smarty-pants!"
You know no evolutionist is ever, ever going to admit to intelligent design, even as they cannot speak of science without using words that allude to intelligent design-- words like clever, adaptation, highly structured, navigation, instinct, sonar, equipped, process, mechanism, laws, etc. All of those are very powerful evidence of intelligent design.
This flagellum motor, if you have not investigated it, is such powerful evidence that they don't even like to talk about it, because it might cause them to blaspheme against evolution. Evolution itself is not a horrible theory, but it could not have invented itself, ordered itself, caused itself to become adaptive, nor given itself any ambition to preserve the life-forms IT supposedly CREATED.
If you see something with your own eyes, you do not need "peer review" to say you saw it. Check out the motor. Science does not deny it. It has an armature, stators, shaft, bushings, and propellers, all made of proteins. And this SOPHISTICATED MOTOR is the flagellating whip-like tentacle or tail of a BACTERIA.
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Don
"Only a troll talks about flat-earthers!"
I wonder if John Owens realizes he just called the authors of his Youtube "evidence" for intelligent design "trolls", since they talk about it often. It' funny watching him derail himself.
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John Owens
No one I have ever watched on YouTube talks about Flat Earth. Only trolls like you, whom I would not watch on YouTube.
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Don
Hey Johnny, see the links imbedding in your YouTube "evidence"? CLICK ON THEM. The only way to claim you don't see entries on Flat Earth is to turn your monitor off.
Now, about the evidence you keep claiming to have for Intelligent Design...ever find it?
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flugo
Excellent!
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Don
Do you have any evidence to support your claim, or are you just making your ignorant bigotry public?
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
As a ac tech and appliance tech i have been in many castles and have seen it all
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Don
What?! Being a Peeping Tom is not only criminal, but if convicted... Are you a registered sex offender??
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flugo
'caries': It matters NOT what marriage is 'in all 50 states'.
What DOES matter is what GOD considers marriage. And that's one woman and a man.
Anything else is perversion, subnormal, and contrary to our Creator's design.
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Lionheart
Ummm! King David had 8 wives, Moses had 2, Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (way to go Solomon). There were of course many others. Then the Jesus guy comes along and I think he moved the goal posts.
Slightly prior to his birth, Mary had two husband type people, Joseph and god. Though I think god was a one night stand. I assume Joseph was okay with that. I mean, how can you complain when a god does naughty things to your wife, puts his fingers to his lips, and tells you it’s okay. That’s a very difficult situation, but Joseph and Mary got away with it, and everyone seemed to buy it, so that’s good. I’m not sure people would buy that story today, and I bet many have tried.
Don’t you just love religion? Personally, I’ll stick to reading Harry Potter. Better story, nowhere near as much death and gore, and no gods messing around with women, so that makes it better for children to read in my eyes.
?❤️
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Don
You are a perversion. And your god is an imaginary boogeyman. Grow up.
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G Dobson
Totally agree Carrie. Aside from the illegality of shoving religion into law (again), the best interests of the children is what matters. As one of the opponents said: “Why are we wanting to do anything to prohibit a loving couple or a family of any denomination, any religion, any moral conviction from being able to care for a child and take it in and provide for it? We have got to stop discriminating against people. We have gone far enough.”
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Ken
Ill let god do the judging.... My ego isn't big enough or hypocritical enough to tell anyone that their not as deserving as i
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Don
Which god? Because if Shiva judges us, we're all doomed!
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Miranda Allison Young
If the Tennessee Legislature actually passes this legislation and it gets signed by the Governor, then they are going against what Jesus preached. How dare they call themselves Christians? They certainly do not follow the concepts laid down by Jesus. He would have done anything possible to find homes for those children instead of punishing them. It is not the prospective adopting parents who are the worst hurt, it is the children. The legislature is telling all the children in that state that they do not matter, that they do not deserve to be loved. This is just plain wrong.
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flugo
'Stable family'? I think NOT! No way is a gay couple providing a stable family atmosphere.
NO way should a foster kid be subjected to such a perverted, subnormal home atmosphere!
God doesn't hate the gay people, but He DOES hate their homosexual activities!
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Don
Your god is a joke, just like you. Kindly take your hateful trash somewhere else, thank you.
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Gary Minnis
Hey Don, kindly take your hateful trash somewhere else. Thank you. I bet you were the class bully weren't you?
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Don
Have you always been a spineless homophobe, or is this a new development? Grow up.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Flugo Marx, a gay couple would certainly provide a more stable family atmosphere than an idiot and bigot such as you would provide for a child, since you would raise the child up to be a regular little goose stepper, Sieg Heller, and cross burner in no time at all!! Oh, yeah, "good way to bring up a child"!! Bigotry is perversion to everyone who can still think, even if it doesn't seem to be to you, because people's minds aren't supposed to work that way!! So, it is far worse than something that only seems to be "perversion" to someone like you, whose mind isn't functioning correctly and who isn't playing with a full deck!! Gay people would teach a child to be loving and not be judgmental of other people and be open to differences in people and to treat others as they would want to be treated, which is more than you and your kind could ever teach them!!!
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
This needs to pass. Raising a child in a home that is not of the male female gender will alter the childs mind as they grow in that family almost certainly creating an unhealthy sexual appetite.
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flugo
Excellent!
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Joni
Not true
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Ken
God had a hand in creating all people on this earth.... all people. Does god make mistakes... or could it be he doesn't know what he's doing? When i look around at what he has created i see only perfection... hey folks why not just trust in your god and be the good Christian you think you are. God does the judging not us.
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Ralph J Miller
God gave everyone the power of choice.
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The Doctor
Ah the old myth of free will something all modern experts in psychology recognize as just that a myth. from the moment we are born, and every second we are raised, socialized and absorb that which is around us directly contradicts the idea of free will.
While we certainly are able to make choice logical or emotional in basis. All that we use to make those choices has been affected by all that came before. Even when people for example that are raised as bigots have an epiphany and shed that bigotry it nearly always comes in tandem with an event that causes that view.
For example one soldier who Ive given spiritual council to to help with PTSD was raised in a neo nazi family, and he joined the army with a true loathing for all non whites. Then one day his life was saved by a black man who he had treated like shit the entire time they had been serving together. That black man died saving him. after that the man shed his neo nazi views, in doing so lost his family, that turned their backs on him.
But his change of world view was not an act of free will it was a mixture of trauma and survivors guilt making him turn that hate once directed towards other people due to skin color, towards himself and all he had been raised to be.
Now he struggles constantly with depression, suicidal thoughts,isolation as his own children do not want to ever see him again so he gave his ex wife sole custody. So now he is no longer a man blinded by bigotry but it cost him so very much. Is he better off ? That none can ever truly say.
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Laurie Cleveland
T'Keren. There is both Karmic and Free Will. However, Free Will cannot be a choice of true attraction to the same sex. Despite everything that has been done to these people over the centuries, they simply are a normal variationi of sexual manifestation. Now we get into the BS sticky wicket part of things. Many children and adolescents experiment. It's a given. It doesn't mean that they are gay or not gay. I believe that it is just a part of growing up. Should this be taught to preschoolers? No. Grade school? No. When kids approach high school, then yes, because they need the knowledge to understand that feelings are not "bad" because some church says that it is. There is a lot of documentation regarding Yeshua or Jesus and The Essenes and that he accepted them with love. If He can, than who are we to deny what is obviously just what is. As for transvestites, transexuals and the lot, well, the jury is out. There are true transexuals who are born with both sex organs and the doctors and parents have to figure out which way the child is to be. Sometimes they make the right call; other times, they don't. A lot of it depends upon what is present and developed vs. not and lab tests of hormonal levels. I believe that we have gone way too far in politicizing something that should be a matter of privacy. The pendulum has swung so far in one direction and now in another. I'm in the middle. The "no gays served here" is the same baloney that was done to the blacks and every new group that came into this country, yet we pride ourselves on our freedoms. If it is OK to sell a gay couple various cakes, then the precedent has been set so a wedding cake should not be a big deal. If I remember correctly, that baker even refused to do Halloween cakes. I get it. I see both sides of the coin here, but we need to come to a rational way of looking at it. I have a niece who is gay. She is getting married this year to her long-time girlfriend. I have another 4-H'er who has found her soulmate and best friend and they are both gay and I couldn't be happier for them. Gone are the days when people lived with "friends" and then when the long-time "friend" was in the hospital or dying, the family flatly refused to allow their lover to visit. How cruel is that? Furthermore, legally until recently, if you weren't married or joined in a legally-binding civil union, your other half would be denied health care benefits, etc. There is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Should a man or a woman be forced to marry somebody of the opposite sex just to please convention and be miserable? I don't agree with this or do I agree with arranged marriages. People should be free to choose the person that they love. It is our job as clergy to help both the couple and the families come to an equitable understanding and remember what Paul Stokey said in his "Wedding Song," "That whenever 2 or more of you are gathered in His name, there is Love." People who are prejudiced because they don't understand something tend to be both ignorant and, it seems, hateful. There is too much of the latter in this world. We need to exhibit love and tolerance. This is not, nor it ever has been a "one size fits all" when it comes to religious beliefs.
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John Owens
Sad story, but each of us must walk our own golden pathway. Sometimes that means walking alone, in order to move in the right direction.
There is an old Spanish saying--"Mejor solo que malacompañado." Better to be alone than in bad company, (or poorly accompanied).
He needs a friend or two, and a loving pet. I hope you do well with him.
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Joe
How do babies up for adoption choose ?
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
Usually a thunbs up
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Lionheart
The first born babies that your god killed, and those he drowned in the flood didn’t have a choice either.
Isn’t it weird what type of mythical god some people like to look up to and follow?
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Carrie
I am glad I don't follow this god. He is a psychotic, sadistic, narcissitic, pervert! Oh wait, I must be talking about the god trump.... To say that gays are anything less than human, or that they are incapable of loving and providing for children is what a true asshole would say. It would seem to me that only certain "christians" and republicans have the market cornered on perversion. They are constantly being arrested for child pornography, child trafficking..aka Epstein, Acosta, Trump...evangelicals caught in sex acts with children and young men....The gays are good and decent people, unlike alot of others.
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Rev. Brien
Thank you for trying to open eyes, but I fear that the religious zealot will refuse to see.
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preacher richard h.
GOD didn't KILL the First born male children, The Pharos Chose to do that. Moses Parted the Red sea to escape Slavery and Free his people,
The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become and GOD was filled with Pain The People were given a chance to repent (like you) an refused . GOD Judged ALL the truly righteous were SPARED the evil were Destroyed. GOD gave us choice but he created humans to Worship him Good Luck Amen
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Lionheart
Richard:
Exodus 11:4-6 New International Version (NIV)
“So Moses said, “This is what the Lord says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again.”
It seems like your god decided to take his anger out in the first born cattle as well then. Kinda weird don’t you think? I bet you can find a good sick explanation though...right?
When you say “All the truly righteous were spared” I guess the drunkard Noah was classed as righteous then by your god, and all the little children in the world were not righteous.
What sort of sick mythical deity is he Richard?There’s no way I would ever worship that sick SOB who can’t control his temper.
Anyway, you carry on worshipping it if it makes you somehow feel good.
Good luck!
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John Owens
Pharoah was warned. Nobody cares about the cattle
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Lionheart
Ohhhh, that’s okay then! Thanks John for clearing that one up. I was mistakenly thinking God chose to kill some of their food source for a reason. What on earth was God thinking if no one cared about the cattle. I wonder why he did that then? His thought structure is magnificent isn’t it?
As for the little children that suffered, along with the parental trauma the parents went through, because of Pharaoh getting the almighty omnipotent god angry, I’m amazed he couldn’t think of something a little less traumatic and gory, like making him blind, or deaf for a while. But there I go being practical. I bet Gods now wondering “Why didn’t I think of that?” I bet I’m in Gods black book now.
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John Owens
All of those who died will be resurrected in the second resurrection, Lionheart. Then they will have a chance to live forever in a world without suffering. Remember, Pharoah was a totalitarian tyrant who thought himself a god. How would YOU have taught him differently?
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Lionheart
But that’s only if you believe it John. What if you’re wrong? Children still died, people still suffered.
I already suggested what I’d do differently. I certainly wouldn’t have taken it out on little children, or cattle.
Turning Pharaoh into a pillar of salt would have been another option to save the lives of all those children. God could have done that. He did that to Lots wife, and all she did was not do as she was told.
I believe my suggested options are better than Gods. Does that make me better than God? Ohhhhh I hope so. I think my morals would be better than his. I wouldn’t drown people either because I was angry at my creation. I’d own up to it and say I messed up. But I would have known mankind was going to be a major issue anyway if I was omnipotent...right?
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John Owens
Whether I am correct or not, you say it as though you believe it actually happened. If that is the case, you should really be a little more concerned with your own karma. I say this as a friend.
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Lionheart
Thank you John. I say it because I don’t in fact believe it, but many on this blog do.
I also don’t believe in Karma. If I did I would have been struck down long before now. As a septuagenarian, I’m glad I’ve made it this far. Many Christians haven’t! ?
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Tom B
Lionheart (apr 11 5:24)...Respectfully...karma is not vengeance or vindictiveness; it is balance...and it carries from lifetime to lifetime, until we arefree and enlightened, at which point we do not return to this life...fyi, i am 77, and i am also glad i have made it this far...thank you for your various thoughtful comments on various subjects...Peace...Tom
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Lionheart
You are very welcome Tom. It’s always fun to respectfully share thoughts and ideas, and sometimes with a little tongue-in-cheek humor. ✌? ☮️
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Don
God gave EVERYONE the power of choice? Have you ever read the Bible? Jephthah's daughter was burned alive as a payment to God for winning a battle. Are you really going to claim she CHOSE to burn to death?
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
She knew the rules
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Don
She was EIGHT YEARS OLD. If you treated YOUR daughter this way, you would be sitting on Death Row. Have you always been this wicked and immoral?
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Lionheart
They only want to read the nice bits Don, if they've read it at all, to try and prove their mythical God is a nice guy.
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Laurie Cleveland
According to The Bible, the first person out of the house would be killed should Jephtha win the battle. He didn't know that it would be his beloved daughter. She was the one who told the heartbroken dad to "do to her what he promised to do." When he tried to cover her face, she took off the covering and held her eyes up to the Light so that she would die iin The Light. She could have said that a slave girl could go in her place, but she was more concerned that the father keep his promise to God. Sometimes, the price of making a promise to God is a very large one. I know that my promise to God that should He see fit to make me a nurse that I would work for Him and that I have done to the best of my ability. I believe that we should live our beliefs, whatever they are. Words are cheap and actions speak louder than words. Would you deny a child a home, a good home, just because you didn't agree with where that child would end up with? That is very cruel and almost abusive. Who cares so long as the children are well taken care of. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what is right before your nose.
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John Owens
He did not say the first person out of the house would be killed.
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Don
"He didn’t know that it would be his beloved daughter."
But the all-knowing God did, right? And this God could have stopped it from happening at any time, but instead chose to watch as the child was burned to death. Nice God you have there. Makes Hitler look like a nice guy.
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John Owens
People who believe in late-term abortion hardly have any room to talk.
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Don
And people who molest children also have no room to talk. But that's as irrelevant as the previous statement...er, evasion.
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John Owens
You make a habit of slinging terrible accusations at people with no grounds for doing so. That shows that you have no scruples and no interest whatsoever in fact or truth. Why would you disrespect yourself so much? How do you live with yourself, having no honor?
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John Owens
Moderators, WHY don't you post at least ONE of my replies to this? I know at least one of them has to be acceptable in thy sight.
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John Owens
You keep saying the Bible says things it does not say. The scripture does not say Jephthah's daughter was burned to death or even killed in sacrifice. That is an erroneous inference at which people arrive based on a lack of knowledge.. A person could offer their child to the service of the Tabernacle or Temple. There was zero provision in the Torah. for actual blood or holocaust offering of human beings.
The Bible also does not say that Nephilim were the hybrid offspring of fallen angels and humans,
that the Earth is 6,000 years old,
that people go to heaven when they die,
or that they become angels,
that sinners burn forever and ever,
that any human has an immortal soul,
that Jesus was buried on Friday afternoon and resurrected on Sunday morning,
that " it is better to plant thy seed in the belly of a whore than to spill it on the ground,"
that Jesus abolished the Law,
that Jesus was born on or near Christmas,
that we should observe Easter.
There are many other widely-held misconceptions about what the Bible says, that it does not actually say.
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Don
Bwahahaa!!! I've never made ANY of those claims about Scripture. There are believers that DO make some of those claims, but as you know, I am not one of them.
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Don
"The scripture does not say Jephthah’s daughter was burned to death or even killed in sacrifice."
Except that it does.
Judges 11:35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back. 11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who DID WITH HER ACCORDING TO HIS VOW which he had vowed: and she knew no man.
And his VOW was: Judges 11:31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.
Enough with the lies.
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John Owens
So, where is the verse that actually says, "Jephthah actually burned his daughter." I'll wait.
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Don
No need to wait as I've already posted it. Try paying attention.
Judges 11:31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I WILL OFFER IT UP FOR A BURNT OFFERING. 11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who DID WITH HER ACCORDING TO HIS VOW
Do you need help with the big words?
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John Owens
https://www.aish.com/atr/Jephthah-Sacrificing-Daughter.html
"You are right that the story is at first glance shocking. The Torah clearly detests human sacrifice – or murder in virtually any form. Idolatrous practices which involve child sacrifice are especially abominable to God (see e.g. Leviticus 20:1-5 and Jeremiah 19:5). Likewise, one of the most difficult aspects of the binding of Isaac was that Abraham was forced to (almost) act in a way completely antithetical to the ethics and morality he had until then been preaching to the world.
In truth, the commentators to the Book of Judges unanimously explain that Jephthah (or Yiftach) did not literally sacrifice his daughter (Rashi, Radak, Ralbag, Metzudat David, Malbim). In fact, if one promises to transgress any law of the Torah, his promise is not binding (Rashi to Numbers 30:2 quoting Sifri). "
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John Owens
Same page:
"Rather, as the commentators explain, the promise was fulfilled in a different manner. Jephthah promised to offer up whatever emerged from his house to God. For an animal it would have meant sacrifice. For his daughter it meant devoting her life utterly to God. Jephthah’s daughter was thus not allowed to marry, raise a family, and interact normally with others. She had to live a life of isolation, fully devoted to Divine service. This is why the Torah concludes that as a result of his promise she never “knew a man.” The Torah does not state that she was put to death, but that she remained a virgin.
Even so, God was very critical of Jephthah. If a person makes an oath and afterwards finds it is impractical to fulfill due to unforeseen circumstances and the like, he can typically go to a great rabbi or a court and have it annulled. Jephthah’s promise was clearly one he regretted for good reason. Yet he and his daughter went ahead with it anyway.
God through the prophet Jeremiah later railed against Jephthah for not remedying the situation but allowing his daughter to remain single. “Is there no balm in Gilead, is there no doctor there? For why was not the healing of the daughter of My nation forthcoming?” (8:22). Gilead was Jephthah’s region. As the Sages interpret, he was punished for not seeking out “balm” for his oath and bringing about his daughter’s healing. Likewise Phinehas, then the High Priest, was punished for not coming himself to absolve Jephthah of his oath (see Talmud Ta’anit 4a, Bereishit Rabbah 60:3). "
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John Owens
Do YOU need help with the big words? Again, you say it literally says something it does NOT literally say. You might LEARN something if you didn't think you already know everything.
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Don
"You make a habit of slinging terrible accusations at people with no grounds for doing so."
I'm not sure if it's sad, funny, or both that John says this with a straight face. The irony is palpable.
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Don
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the same person who denies child rape in the Bible even after the verses are posted for him also denies the child sacrifice. I've often thought that the only way to accept such an immoral book as "holy" would be to lie to oneself about its contents so much that you start to believe the lies. So sad.
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Don
"she returned unto her father, who DID WITH HER ACCORDING TO HIS VOW"
And his VOW TO GOD was to offer her as a burnt offering. Your gymnastic-like apologetics are amusing...and they also show just how far some believers will go to mask the atrocities in their own holy book.
But they fail to erase what Scripture actually says. Sorry about that.
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John Owens
So, YOU'RE the expert on the Hebrew scriptures-- the same guy who DOESN'T BELIEVE ANY OF IT, ANYWAY! Why don't you get a hobby besides being a troll?
There was NO provision for human sacrifice in the Torah, and there WAS a provision that if a man excitedly made a vow to God that would violate another part of the Torah, he was not bound to that vow.
He bound her over to temple (or tabernacle) service, a virgin, leaving him no progeny, himself being of lowly birth, yet having attained stature through character, courage, and determination. Thus, his family tree was ended.
You would rather believe the stupidest, most evil things about everything, it seems, than an innocent and simple truth.
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bakoa
And look what you have dine with your power of choice thats do much bettrr than the gays
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Lionheart
“When I look around at what he created I see only perfection”
I’m guessing you wear glasses...right Ken. ?
Anyway, people will always discriminate, it’s just the way we are. Even mythical gods discriminated, and if you believe in the jealous Christian god, everyone was made in his image, so surprise surprise.
I’m glad that as a secular humanist, my morals of discrimination are better than the gods.
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preacher richard h.
Made in his image Given Free Will to Worship Him or not to but he made us to worship him. those who don't well Lets just say I'M Not the one going to HELL
Discriminate against sin and Un natural acts Id say so because if you flock with sinners you will commit more sin
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Don
"I’M Not the one going to HELL"
Kindly take your cowardly threats of damnation and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. They have no place on this page.
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Gary Minnis
Don your double standard is showing. Just saying.
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Don
Double standard? Either show where I threatened someone with eternal damnation over their personal beliefs. or apologize for the sleazy lie. Thank you.
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Laurie Cleveland
You know Lionhaert, I am really fed up with you putting everything on God. You are clearly one of these people who just loves calling the kettle black and creating dissention whenever something doesn't feel comfortable in your wheelhouse so to speak. All you have to do is take off the proverbal blinders and actually see the beauty and wonder around you and know that someone or something had had a hand in it and it wasn't the Rockerfellers! The Bible is part history and part alagorical. I'm not going to say that the flood was God's way of getting retribution on a world that has gone bad (sound familiar here?). Many times, natural disasters are blamed on something other than what may have caused it. The floods of Noah probably happened with a major polar shift, but that is giving it a scientific bent, which again, may or may not be true. The fact of the matter is that things going back that far in time weren't written down. They were passed mouth to mouth. Things changed. It doesn't mean that the core of it wasn't true, but even the Bible has been re-written so many times, much of what is true has been taken out because it was "politically incorrect," which, once again, we are seeing. Man's inhumanity towards man has a long and sordid history. None of us can deny that. I can, however, say that no one religion is to blame or is the savior. It seems that whenever you have people that are on either ends of the spectrum, there is trouble and it's fact that the "born agains" as part of their platform go out and get up on their soapbox and decry anybody else's beliefs. Same with the Shi-ites. Same with every religion where there are extremitists. Don't believe the way they do? You're put to death. Need a job? Well, if you don't believe the way the people who own the business believe, then you lose your job. I know that one all too well because I'm Wiccan and it has taken me a lot of soul searching and redoing BSN courses that UOP took away from me (and charged me $41K) that one of the jobs I was at, I was a victim of religious discrimination. Hell, I was a victim of it being a Prostant in a predominently Catholic state growing up. I know all about it! You need to stop. Just stop. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but you do not have to be so abrasive comes to mind here about your own beliefs. You clearly have issues with the IAM. I get it, but don't put somebody else down for theirs.
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Lionheart
Thank you Laurie for your comments. My intention is not to put everyone down, it’s with the intent to open their minds, heart, and eyes, because I too get tired of reading ridiculous unproven religious rhetoric that often causes anxiety, and fear, to the point that some have taken their own life because of the “shame of sin”. I know of more than one teenage Christian boy who has shot his brains out because of his religious guilt. To me, this is appalling, and someone needs to stand up for those lost lives through religion. One boy I know actually did that in front of his girlfriend on the doorstep of her home. Can you imagine the trauma that family went through seeing that happen all over their front door and doorstep all because of religion.
I know where you are coming from. I too have been involved in Wicca as I moved away from religion. I’ve been involved with sabbats and esbats, skyclad, as the years rolled around. You will understand that Laurie.
I do indeed see the beauty and wonder around me, but I don’t attribute that to any god, because I also see, with no blinders on, the horror, gore, and destruction that nature can also bring, as well as it’s incredible beauty.
Please ignore my crusade in my stating truth of how it truly is if anything I say displeases you. I do at times try to make my tongue-in-cheek remarks humorous as best I can.
Blessed be!
?❤️
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preacher richard h.
The bible says to judge your neighbors with Righteous JUDGEMENT so Christians know who the Immoral Sinners are. So enough of this we aren't suppose to judge that's just a Cop out Flagrant sinners use to justify devious behavior.
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flugo
Excellent!
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Don
The Bible also says eating shellfish is an abomination. How many Red Lobsters have you protested at?
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Gerardo Defendini
Maybe you need to read a little more of the Bible before quoting it. Shellfish was unclean in the old testament. Along with snakes, pigs, etc.The old testament came into effect when Moses, in Horeb, sprinkled the blood of a sacrificed animal on the people and said "this is the blood of the testament that God has made with us" Exodous 24:8 A testament comes in effect when someone dies. Jesus said "For this is my blood of the NEW testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. So there is a new testament that replaces the old one.
Now, on Chapter 10 of the book of Acts, Peter was very hungry and has a dream. And in this dream he saw a large sheet come from heaven. On this sheet were all kinds of animals. "Clean and unclean". God then said to him "Peter, get up, kill and eat" Peter answered "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."and then God answered "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." Shellfish and other animals that the Old testament called "unclean" are now clean. Your argument, my friend, is not valid.
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Don
You skipped over Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says that ALL of the Old Laws are to remain UNCHANGED until his return.
Unless you now claiming Jesus has returned?
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flugo
Superb!
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preacher richard h.
First of all, there is a confusion of time. During His lifetime, Jesus always kept the Law of Moses Himself, including offering sacrifices to the Jewish priests (Matt. 8:4), attending Jewish festivals (John 7:10), and eating the passover lamb (Matt. 26:19). He did on occasion violate the pharisaical (and false) traditions that had grown up around the Law (cf. Matt. 5:43–44), chiding them, “You have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition” (Matt. 15:6). The verses that indicate the law has been fulfilled refer to after the Cross when there is “neither Jew nor Greek ... for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28).
These ceremonial and typological aspects of the OT Law of Moses were clearly done away with when Jesus, our Passover lamb (1 Cor. 5:7), fulfilled the Law’s types and predictions about His first coming (cf. Heb. 7–10). In this sense, Jesus clearly did away with the ceremonial and typological aspects of the Law, not by destroying the Law, but by fulfilling it.
When the moral principle expressed in this OT commandment is stated in the NT, it is expressed in a different context, namely, one that is not national or theocratic, but is personal and universal. For all persons who honor their parents, Paul declares that they will “live long on the earth” (Eph. 6:3). Likewise, Christians are no longer under the commandment of Moses to worship on Saturday (Ex. 20:8–11), for, since the Resurrection, appearances, and Ascension (all of which occurred on Sunday), Christians worship on Sunday instead
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preacher richard h.
Amen to your knowledge Gerardo Defendini
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Gerardo Defendini
Don: I did not. Read the whole chapter you quote and learn ths. A text without a context is a pretext. On the same chapter on the same book you quote you conveniently leave out the context. Jesus changed the commandments on that same chapter. The old law is changed by his own authority. He says "You have heard" and then says "I tell you that" at least 8 times changing at least the same amount of laws. We have new commandments and not one of them deals with "unclean food". By the way, you offer no explanation for Peter's vision in Acts, do you? that's because there is none. Just like there's no "unclean" food. Do me and the community a favor and learn this.
"Before you speak, make sure you can improve the silence" J.L.Borges
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John Owens
Don is right on this one. Jesus didn't do away with anything except the need to sacrifice animals, and the Aaronic priesthood.
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Don
Do yourself a favor and stop trying to re-translate Scripture to fit your narrow minded views. Thanks so much.
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John Owens
Gerardo, Jesus did not change God's laws. He cited how the teachers of His day were teaching them, but then He told the way it was originally written to be. He did not change God's law. He was telling them the Pharisees AND Sagicees were twisting the laws, much like the mullahs and priests of today do.
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
Thats a cop out
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Laurie Cleveland
I find that the most judgemental people have the most skeletons in their closet. How many times have we seen televangelists get caught doing all sorts of things. "Judge not, lest you be judged."
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
God only created Adam and Eve .The rest is on us. He did not make any others. So got to expect some failures. Just like the mechanical products we make .Face it its not Gods doing.
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Don
"God only created Adam and Eve" And Lillith, Adam's first wife - or haven't you actually ever read the Bible? Not to mention all the people from the land of Nod - where do you think Cain and Abel's wives came from? You should probably open a Bible and READ IT before making any more false claims about it.
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Gerardo Defendini
OK this is getting ridiculous. Lilith is NOT in the Bible as Adam's "first wife". period. She makes a solitary appearance in the Bible, as a wilderness demon shunned by the prophet Isaiah. Is. Chapter 34. In the Middle Ages she reappears in "Jewish sources" as the dreadful first wife of Adam. but this is not documented or accepted by Bible scholars. Please be careful when quoting this book or you may end up looking like, well, youjust did.
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Don
Riiiight - So, are the unicorns, satyrs, and cockatrices in Scripture accepted by "Bible scholars"?
Based on your comment, you seem to have the capability to understand that the Bible is a work of fiction. Why do you deny this?
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Laurie Cleveland
Geraaardo, I decided to do some checking and technically, you are correct. I decided to check Wikipedia and Lilith, not always the most "religious" of sites, but you get some good information on it and it seems that because of whatever she did or didn't do, she was demonized, just like Mary Magdalene, Yeshua's wife, was, for so long. It seems that the farther from an event that something happens, the more myth takes place and the less true comes forward. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith Then I went to a pagan site (yes, I hear all of you dyed in the wool "Christians" groaning, but folks different strokes for different folks. https://witchesandpagans.com/pagan-culture-blogs/spirit-garden/welcome-and-let-s-learn-about-lilith-in-astrology.html The person who wrote it is an astrologer and looks as Lilith as that which is hidden, an interesting viewpoint. Let's face it, anybody who dresses provocatively is thought of in varying terms, none of them nice, and while it may be acceptable if you are single, most men simply do not like their women to "strut their stuff." If you look at it from this perspective, it is, once again, what is good for the GANDER is not good for the GOOSE. I stick firmly by this based on how many "free" women were put to death, etc. over the centuries and are still being persecuted.
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John Owens
Bible scholars know those are flukes of translation.
Cockatrice should just say adder , see Strong's tsephaʻ, tseh'-fah; from an unused root meaning to extrude; a viper (as thrusting out the tongue, i.e. hissing):—adder, viper.
Unicorn should have been a now extinct wild bull (reh-ame'; or רְאֵים rᵉʼêymlemma רְאיֵם second vowel, corrected to רְאֵים; or רֵים rêym; or רֵם rêm; from H7213; a wild bull (from its conspicuousness): and satyr--Strong's Hebrew dictionary 8163-- should have been a shaggy he-goat. -
Don
Bwahahaa! God's Perfect Word has "flukes" Classic!
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John Owens
The translators have flukes, Don. You probably don't know any other language, but oftentimes, things either cannot be translated directly, or they might be translated in more than one way. In the case of the KJV, the translators were also trying to please the king and the church of England. Modern translations have returned to the Greek and the Hebrew and the flaws of the KJV are well known by those who study it.
For instance, Jesus' name was not Jesus. It should be translated Joshua. We know this. We understand it. I say Jesus so people will know of whom I speak, even though it is a horrible transliteration of the Greek name for Joshua, or Yeshua.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Michigan has outlawed such discrimination. EXCERPT: Faith-based adoption agencies in Michigan that benefit from taxpayer funding will no longer be allowed to legally turn away same-sex couples or LGBTQ individuals based on religious objection, under the terms of a settlement in a lawsuit alleging the practice constituted discrimination.
Attorney General Dana Nessel reached the settlement with the ACLU on Friday, recognizing that a 2015 law that permitted state-contracted child welfare agencies to refuse to provide foster care or adoption services that conflicted with their religious beliefs violates federal anti-discrimination laws.
"Discrimination in the provision of foster care case management and adoption services is illegal, no matter the rationale," Nessel said in a statement. "Limiting the opportunity for a child to be adopted or fostered by a loving home not only goes against the state's goal of finding a home for every child, it is a direct violation of the contract every child placing agency enters into with the state."
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/22/706049119/state-funded-adoption-agencies-in-michigan-barred-from-refusing-lgbtq-parents
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preacher richard h.
Discrimination lol Why do they discriminate against a single straight Man wanting to adopt a girl child/daughter
Should he be able to do this? its not his fault he is single in todays day n age. perhaps he has below average looks should he be able to adopt a child.?
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bakoa
See what Woody Allan did? He wasn’t even single. He adopted a kid and started abusing her Asap. Should households with men adopt children?
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cbcuff
After reading all the comments I came back to yours as it seemed to be the only one which addressed to main issue, discrimination. Most comments are simply opinions about being gay, and have gone on and on, and around in circles. It truly is amazing that a country with such a huge cross section of ethnicity and religions in its' population can't come to terms with, or understanding of what a democratic society is. Unfortunately the US version of democracy under the current regime, is undermining not only civil rights but also humans rights. The values / views of VP Pence are is a good example of the hypocrisy which runs through the veins of the right wing zealots in office. (see other article in this posting about Mayor Pete) Democratic laws are meant to end discrimination, not enforce it.
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flugo
l. God hates homosexuality, not the homosexual! 2. A gay couple raising a kid is NOT a 'stable' family! 3. Homosexuality is an abnormal, perverted and lifestyle.
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Don
- Gods are myths
- Phlegmo wouldn't know a 'stable' family if it ran him over. 3 Phlegmo is an abnormal, perverted little man who needs to grow up.
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Laurie Cleveland
Actually Don, God/Goddess is not a myth. It is a real force. We humans, being the imperfect creatures that we are tend to worship Him/Her in various ways, which I think is a good thing. I believe that they are so many different religious because God chose to appear differently to each group. We are sort of all colors of the rainbow here. The flood was real. It happened when the poles shifted. If it happened because the world was so wicked,and He/Her got totally PO'd, then God help us because this world is in seriouis, serious, serious trouble right now and ignorance and the inability to not allow another person or people the right to see creation and the Creator or IAM as they choose to see it just shows us that you can see the splinter in other people's eyes, but you can't see the plank in your own. Think about that one for awhile. There is no room anymore for hate. That is what you are spouting out of your mouth Flugo, nothing more than slimy hate. You can either continue on your pathway and find out the Truth after you die or you can start now by understanding and learning about different religions and different groups of people. I think your congregation would be very grateful if you did, because, right now, if I had to sit and listen to one of your sick "fire and brimstone" sermons, I would probably excuse myself and walk out and pity you and your parishoners.
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Don
A real force? Then you have real evidence to support its existence. And you're seriously claiming the Flood was real? Oh goodness. Evidence for your claims please - otherwise, purple fairies created the universe 2 weeks ago.
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Gary Minnis
Your ridiculous. If you believe nothing why are you here? Where is your proof that God/Goddess doesn't exist?
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Stoodie Baker
Gary-That's not how evidence works. You can't prove something doesn't exist or didn't happen. When I was a kid, I had super strength just like Superman. I hit a baseball so hard it left the planet and went into the Sun. That's a ridiculous claim, that anyone with any sense of reason would dismiss as false. However, you cannot prove it didn't happen, but common sense governs most people except when it comes to their favorite deity.
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Dr. David Griffith
The flood did happen. Too many different groups around the world have stories in their culture about a flood to believe it was not real. Now, what is a flood? Did the word get changed from something else in the interpretation of the Bible? Perhaps, it was just so much rain that rivers flooded their banks, like what has happened recently in the Midwest of the USA.
I also do not believe their is a God and I respond back to those that ask for me to show proof there is not with, "prove their is." I never get a answer that can be proved through science. It is always a believe because I tell you.
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Malad City
It's just like saying, prove you love your wife or your mother and father, the proof is in your Testimony and your humble heart to recieve the Holy Ghost into your heart and life, the proof is in your humility to open your heart and pray to your Heavenly Father in the same way, I promise if you do, it will change your mind .
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Don
Malad City -- Thinly veiled superstitious threats have no place on this page. Thanks so much.
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bakoa
A real force. Mass x Acceleration. Action Reaction, Power. Now, God is an emotional force meaning it is as real as your emotion. So take the box that you claim moves by god in your imagination. You swear it moved and you get enough people who say they swear it moved and you guys form a group that have the emotion that a force called god moved that box that never moved. You vilify anyone that says there is no motion and you tell yourselves they are going to an imaginary hell, God is your emotional force that even a a dog thinks dont exist, but Ive never spoken to a dog but my dog dont pray, that I know. Read Numbers 31. Tell me, those 35,000 virgins taken into slavery is that the power of god? All those baby boys slaughtered, all those men women and boys. That is the true force of your emotional god. The urge to murder snd enslave another. Are wolves worshipping when they howl? Or are you saying you are a better living thing than my dog? My dog is a living breathing loving being. Tell me
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Delphine Manigo
Can a person be born gay?
Question: "Can a person be born gay?"
Answer: In 1996, The Advocate, a gay and lesbian magazine, asked readers what they believed the potential impact would be to the advancement of gay and lesbian rights if a scientific discovery proves a biological basis for homosexuality. About 61 percent of the magazine’s readers asserted that such scientific research would advance the cause of gays and lesbians and lead to more positive attitudes toward homosexuality. For example, if one can be born gay, much as one can be born with brown eyes, then a fair society could not possibly condemn him as being unnatural or immoral. To that end, gay activists and the liberal media have actively encouraged the idea that homosexuality is inherited and unchangeable, and researchers have diligently sought scientific evidence to back up that claim. Unfortunately for the pro-homosexuality movement, the research on this subject has failed to establish any scientific evidence that shows a purely genetic basis for homosexuality.
The controversy began with the work of Simon LeVay, M.D. In 1991, LeVay tested the brains of 41 cadavers and noted differences between homosexual versus heterosexual males. The hypothalamus, an area believed to regulate sexual activity, was smaller in homosexual males than in heterosexuals. Dr. LeVay believed the differences proved a biological basis for homosexuality, but he failed to consider a variety of reasons, other than genetic, that the brains were different. First, all 19 of the homosexual cadavers had died of AIDS, a disease known to affect the neurological system. It could be that the disease had shrunk the hypothalamus. Second, scientists who study brain biochemistry know that the way a person thinks affects the way his brain functions; specifically, it affects the neurochemicals released in the brain and the way certain pathways grow and change. Could the structural brain differences have started with the difference in thoughts between homosexuals and heterosexuals, rather than with genetics? Third, there is no proof linking hypothalamus size with homosexuality, either as a cause or effect.
In 1993, Dr. Dean Hamer, a pro-gay activist, made the astounding claim in his research that there may be a gene for homosexuality. His team of researchers began a series of gene linkage studies, in which families with several homosexuals underwent genetic analysis to determine if any chromosomal variants could be found in the family and if the variant correlated with those individuals who displayed the homosexuality. Although Hamer's study sample was very small, he found a significant linkage between gays and a marker on the maternal X chromosome, Xq28. Additional studies with larger sample sizes produced conflicting results in the linkage to Xq28. It is important to note that Hamer’s experiments have never been validated; in fact, other groups of researchers have discredited Hamer’s work as non-replicable or even fraudulent.
Even if there were some genetic commonalities among homosexuals, associated characteristics do not prove a causal link. To illustrate, a genetic study among professional athletes would probably show that a significant percentage of these stars share certain genetic sequences. One might erroneously conclude that the genetic sequences for increased speed, agility and strength prove that engaging in professional sports is a heritable trait. However, no genetic sequence can account for human choice and the effects of environment. People who have the genetic traits of an athlete may naturally gravitate toward professional sports or be encouraged to play. Although athletes share some common traits, being a professional athlete itself is not heritable. The culture in which an individual matures and the choices he makes decide his career path.
There are many researchers who cite environmental factors as major contributors to homosexual feelings. They strongly believe that negative early childhood experiences in an unloving or non-supportive home environment are a critical part of this process. Common elements seem to include an emotionally withdrawn or physically absent father and an overbearing, fawning or over-protective mother. In many cases, there are reports of physical, sexual or emotional abuse. Disruption of gender identification may contribute to the development toward homosexuality. This process begins between ages two and four. During this phase, children move from their primary connection with the mother to seek out deeper attachments with the parent of the same gender. For males, the relationship between a boy and his father is the primary means of developing a secure gender identity. As a father and son share time together, the father expresses his value and interest in the son and gives to the son a sense of masculinity. The boy begins to develop a sense of his own gender by understanding himself in relation to his father. Conversely, a mother who is distant, abusive, or physically absent or a mother who is viewed by her daughter as being weak (such as when the mother is abused by males) may disrupt her daughter’s identification with being feminine.
Peer attachments with same-sex friends also play a role in developing gender identity. Eventually, after years of interaction and bonding with same-sex peers, children enter puberty and begin to pay attention to the opposite sex. When this natural process is disrupted, it feels natural for a child to love and crave the attention of those of the same sex. When children with certain temperaments initially perceive rejection of the same-sex parent, they detach and bond with the other parent. They begin to adopt the patterns and attributes of the opposite sex. However, there is always a longing for a connection with the same-sex parent, love and affirmation from the same gender. These children believe that they were born that way, having craved love and attachment with the same-sex parents for as long as they can remember. Homosexual behavior thus begins as an emotional craving, not a sexual craving. It reflects a legitimate need for non-sexual love, an emotional need that ultimately becomes sexualized with the onset of puberty.
Most researchers have concluded that sexual orientation is a complex, multifactorial issue in which biological, social and psychological factors combine to play a role in the ultimate sexual orientation of an individual. According to Julie Harren, Ph.D., the formula for this interplay between factors might be represented by these equations:
--Genes + Brain Wiring + Prenatal Hormonal Environment = Temperament. --Parents + Peers + Experiences = Environment. --Temperament + Environment = Homosexual Orientation.
What’s missing from these equations are the existence of a soul, the choice of the individual, and the temptation of the devil (see James 1:14).
Although it may be easier, psychologically, for a homosexual to believe that homosexuality is inborn, the accumulated scientific evidence suggests otherwise. Homosexuals may have a genetic predisposition, but human choice is still a factor. A predisposition is not a constraint. Ultimately, sexual orientation is determined outside of the womb. For those who are unhappy living a homosexual lifestyle, this truth offers hope for change. Clinical experience has shown that, with help, some homosexuals can change learned responses and defense mechanisms to early painful experiences.
In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, the sin of homosexuality is listed right next to theft. Just as there is no genetic excuse for stealing, there is no genetic excuse for homosexuality. Environment, culture, and choice make one a thief, and the same factors make one a homosexual.
Christ died for homosexuals. God loves persons of all sexual orientations, just as He loves all sinners. The Bible says, "God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). Jesus Christ "is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:2). The gospel of Christ "is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes" (Romans 1:16). In Christ alone we find the definitive source for healing, restoration, forgiveness, and comfort. He is the way by which we can all experience the affirming, unconditional love, value, and acceptance of our Father in heaven.
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Laurie Cleveland
Don, The Bible has been re-written I don't know how many times, and every time that it has been re-written, things are taken out of it or the wording changed. Furthermore, people love to take a small quote out of The Bible to make their point, but what it was part of had been removed centuries before. For instance, we were all told that Mary Magdalene was a whore or worse. She was anything but. The Celestine Bible, which is a different sect tells in very easy to read English that she and Yeshua were wed at The Marriage of Canna. Furthermore, there is more and more Truth being found almost everyday now. Why is that? Well, because there was so much that was hidden from the average person. The Pope got Constantine to go to Egypt and torch the library at Alexandria where many scholars went. They then continnued on up the Nile torching and killing monks along the way. Enough of them got word ahead so that not all of the scrolls were destroyed and these we are finding in sealed jars. Unfortunately, time hasn't been particularly good, but there is enough evidence to say that, while some of The Bible is correct, because so much of it has been removed and with all of the re-writes, along with whole books being removed from it such as Enoch for one (which has 3 different versions), A friend of mine, who is Muslim said, "The Qu'ran is more accurate because it has never been rewritten." I'm not quite sure about the accuracy, but he did have a point. You are obviously going on what has been spoon fed to you since you were little. I had an epiphany when I went to nursing school the first time and I realized that I could either remain ignorant or I could learn about different religious and ethnig groups, etc. or I could continue on in the same pathway, which was narrow and you couldn't see the forest for the trees. Just think about that Don. You have the right to your opinion, but you cannot dis anybody in such a crude way if you truly believed what you preach, because your message would be couched in love, not hate. You've a lot to learn and little time to learn it. May the Goddess/God or IAM bless you.
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John Owens
Some people are a god (with a little g) to themselves, Laurie.
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Don
And some people make claims, refuse to provide any evidence for those claims, then spew insults at anyone asking for evidence.
Right, John?
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Don
And some people are too cowardly to respond directly, and sneak their insults into another person's comment thread. Hiya Johnny! Find that evidence yet?
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John Owens
Gave ya that GD evidence several times, Donkey, but you insist I didn't. Same as the extra-biblical evidence of Jesus' existence. You just pretend it isn't evidence. Makes you look pretty damned stupid.
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Don
Ah yes, the magical vanishing evidence that no one but you can see. How quaint.
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John Owens
The magical evidence that only YOU cannot see.
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Malad City
I will enjoy being there to meet you in Heaven with open arms and love, Our Heavenly Father loves nonbelievers to .
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Malad City
I'm surprised that all these negative comments from everyone is coming from a Christian society, we should be responding to comments with Understanding and Intelligence not with hate and ignorance, Love thy Niehbor and respect one another, God bless.
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preacher richard h.
As of now He wont GET TO HEAVEN The ONLY WAY is through FAITH in our Lord JESUS CHRIST and he thinks he is a MYTH.
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Lionheart
If there really is a heaven, which I doubt, I'm thinking that few Christians on this blog, because of the way they write abusive and unloving comments to people, will get there. Just saying!
?♥️
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preacher richard h.
I cant speak for all Christians But not ALL on this Blog are or claim to be Christians Christians know the difference, Even the Devil knows the Holy Scripture.
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John Owens
Hey y'all. Just adding a little something here: About 90% of that heaven stuff comes from Dante, who was satirizing the prevailing beliefs of his time. Hardly any of that is biblical. Saint Peter keeping the gates, immediately going to Heaven or Hell when you die, all of that is from extra-biblical mythology and not the Bible. Biblical teaching is actually that when people die, they die like everything else dies.
ECCLESIASTES 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
ECCLESIATES 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath. 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
That's what happens when you die. Nothingness. The difference between humans and animals is found in the two resurrections in Revelation 20.
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Delphine Manigo
What is Christianophobia?
Question: "What is Christianophobia?"
Answer: The word Christianophobia literally means “fear of Christians.” But, just as very few people are genuinely afraid of homosexuals (the literal meaning of homophobia), so are very few people actually fearful of Christians. Usually, Christianophobia refers to the state of being hateful or spiteful to Christians. A Christianophobe hates or despises Christians and/or what they stand for.
The existence of Christianophobia should not be surprising. Jesus Himself predicted the world’s hatred for Christians: “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you” (John 15:18–19). Christians are called not to conform to the world but to be transformed into the image of Christ (Romans 8:29; 12:1–2). The unbelieving world hates what it does not understand and, therefore, will hate those who follow Christ.
Few would admit an actual emotional hatred for Christians. And, admittedly, the hatred that Christians endure in most of the world is relatively mild. But the Christianophobia in the world today is simply a foretaste of what is to come. As the world increasingly turns away from God, the hatred of God’s people will increase exponentially.
Examples of Christianophobia in the world today:
(1) In much of the Muslim world, Christians are subject to extreme persecution. In many instances, the choice is to convert to Islam, flee, or die.
(2) In much of the Western world, Christians are looked down upon, mocked or ridiculed, and marginalized.
(3) It is becoming clear that Christians who desire to live by their convictions will be ineligible for certain careers. For example, opposition to gay marriage is absolutely a biblical position. If a Christian stands firm in biblical convictions, any career that might possibly touch gay marriage is becoming off limits. Christian bakers, florists, venue owners, and government officials are being fined and even jailed for attempting to live by biblical convictions.
(4) Christian beliefs are being presented in an extremely biased manner. A belief that homosexuality is sinful is presented as hatred for homosexuals. A belief that abortion is wrong is portrayed as hatred for women. Christians proclaiming the biblical way of salvation are declared to be intolerant, even hostile, toward other beliefs. Christians desiring to train their children in a biblical worldview are seen as guilty of brainwashing.
Christianophobia is real, it is increasing, and, according to the Bible, it will get much worse as the end times approach. Ultimately, Christianophobia is satanically driven. Satan hates God, and, as the “god” of this world, he controls the evil world system that hates God and His followers (2 Corinthians 4:4). Thankfully, Christians have nothing to fear. Followers of Christ are overcomers (Romans 8:37). Greater is He (God) who is in us (Christians) than he (Satan) who is in the world (1 John 4:4).
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Don
"according to the Bible" --- You lost all credibility right there.
Unicorns and satyrs and cockatrices, oh my! (yes, they're all in the Bible)
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John Owens
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=fFq_MGf3sbk
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Don
Gosh, why is it that EVERY SINGLE video John posts as "evidence for intelligent design" has the comments disabled? (I think we all know why).
Creationists sure are silly.
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John Owens
UM... Didn't you just comment on this one? Why do you keep changing Intelligent Design to Creationism?
You equate intelligence with things like Michelangelo painted on the Sistine Chapel, I guess. It would probably seem that way to you.
I equate intelligence with a super-genius inventor with a laboratory of unlimited size and material and scope and equipment.
Everybody, evolutionists included, concede that the bacterial flagellum motor IS, in fact, a MOTOR, in every sense of the word, only built of 30+- proteins rather than metals. It was only discovered a few years ago, and that by electron microscopy. It looks as though it came from a space ship rather than bacteria.
No matter what evidence is put out, you will not accept it, but others who look at the video will see that you are in full brainwashed denial, so I don't care what you say about it. You were a lost cause from the get-go.
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Don
Coward. I knew you didn't actually have any evidence. A shame you don't have the balls to just admit it like a man.
Great! It's a MOTOR in every sense of the word. Good for you. Now provide evidence this MOTOR had an intelligent designer. YOU CAN'T. So you play these spineless evasion games with vague hints of "evidence". Just stop. You're done here, Go work that MOTOR mouth somewhere else.
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John Owens
A motor doesn't have an intelligent designer? A MOTOR? An invisible force designed it. An INTELLIGENT invisible force.
You know it, everyone else knows it-- A submicroscopic motor with stator, bushings, shaft, armature, propeller, EVEN a chemical clutch so that it can reverse directions without damaging itself. Sure-- it designed itself. No-- evolution did it. Evolution reasoned it all out-- "Let's see, " Oops! Evolution has no eyes. "This bacteria needs to propel itself." How could evolution figure that one out?
THEN, it had to figure out how to build it, using principles that humanity has only managed to learn in the last 150 years, so, EVOLUTION knew, before mankind was a reality, how to build a motor. That would make evolution itself intelligent, OR programmed by some intelligence.Nothing vague about the evidence I present. A LOT more verifiable than the cartoons used to depict the steps of evolution in the absence of physical evidence. People tend to feel so foolish when they realize they have been convinced that stupid drawings are actual scientific evidence. I know you feel that way and it hurts. I'm sorry, but you criticize people who take Genesis literally, and then what you believe comes from cartoons and fairy tale books passed off as science.
What I tell you is observable, thanks to science, and rational, BECAUSE it can be observed by everyone.
What you believe is neither, unless one believes the artists depictions of evolution, which is not a rational thing to do. You're just being a fanatic now, denying the obvious in favor of that which is popular among your herd.
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
True
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David
The question shouldn’t be is it legal, the question should be is it in moral for gay couples to adopt children. According to the Bible, I would say not. Homosexuals will raise her children thinking that the homosexual lifestyle is normal, which is a lie from the pits of hell!
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Peter M (@zobva)
No David, what YOU are saying is the lie from the pits of hell.
You make the mistake endemic among many of today's haughty, self-righteous Evangelical Christians: cherry-picking verses from the old Jewish law in the Pentateuch that fit with your own personal paradigm of what you think God should have said and done instead of what he actually did do and say. And in doing this you are nailing Christ to the cross all over again.
The whole point of His earthly ministry was that it was literally impossible for people to adhere to the plethora of old Levitican laws to achieve Godly perfection, so He made the supreme sacrifice of sacrificing His own Son, the Lamb of God, who took ALL the sins of the world upon himself. It's very sad that many Christians such as yourself don't understand that gift. You seem to want to keep qualifying it because you don't really believe it. You can readily accept that the blood of Christ covers all your sins, and continues to do so -- but you cannot accept the same thing for others.
"Man lying with man" in Leviticus is not differentiated from wearing mixed fabrics (cotton and wool), eating meat and dairy with the same utensils, cutting your beard, not growing your hair on the sides, not isolating your wife and daughter in a tent when they are menstruating, etc. All are sins worthy of death. And yet you would single out homosexuals -- who are simply the way God made us -- for eternal torment merely because of your own human prejudices, fears, or lack of understanding.
I am a Christian. And I am a gay man. Paul said that "Whosoever believes will be saved." i believe Christ died for me, just as He died for you. Unfortunately you don't feel the same; you apparently simply don't have a grasp on the amazing grace of God's love.
I know you will say, "But you cannot be a Christian and knowingly keep sinning." And yet you do just as everyone does. Because there are none righteous according to basic Christian doctrine. Should you be put to death or not be served in a restaurant if you wear a polyester shirt with cotton slacks? Your condemnation of LGBT brothers and sisters is just as ridiculous. You simply fear that which you do not understand.
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Don
People like David are why the world is so full of ignorance and hate. And I bet he calls himself a Christian. Pathetic.
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Minister J.
A gay couple raising a kid is more stable than a Straight couple just having kids to get on welfare... second the kids that are adopted are at least in a good home. Unlike most kids in the straight world whom are taught to hate and discriminate against all others. The kids raised by gays are taught to love all.
I find kids with gay parents have a better live than Kids with straight parents. Being gay is not a choice or lifestyle. I myself as a ordained minister am living proof being born with the XXY chromosome and yes I'm all Male and yes I'm a gay Male not by choice but born this way. With medical proof being gay is nothing new it's been in the world for many years if social security can recognize gay marriges then everyone should .
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Joni
Absolutely agree they offer so much mire because they know the hurt, words cause! They know what it feels like to be judge. They offer compassion, love, time, understanding.
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REV. BIGSBY
i agree with minister j. comment, being both transgender myself & grown up in the foster system, if i had of had choice id rather be in a stable lgbtq family enviroment than any form of crazytown one ! my life has literally been destroyed every way to sun. ! its never stopped not in over 40 yrs ! , i didnt come out trans til about 2yrs ago, so i know it wasnt for that ! most kids shouldnt even be in states custody period ! Rev. Bigsby
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Dudley Baker-Beall
In the UK, the Equalities Act 2010 resulted in the closure of a Catholic adoption charity a friend was involved with running. They were placing children whose natural parents were Catholic, but were unable to support them, with new Catholic parents who were unable to have children. This seemed to me a reasonable way to resolve two problems, and hopefully give the child a good start in life. It seemed to me unfair that the charity would be deemed to be discriminating if they failed to offer babies to non-Catholic couples, as the charity was solely funded and supported by Catholics.
Is a Church that supports its own flock to be condemned of discrimination? There is a dilemma here, however much we abhor discrimination of any kind, between supporting our neighbours and being compelled not to, as it may offend others. -
Tom Kay
Religious organizations should not be forced to put children into families that conflict with its doctrine.
If the church’s definition of marriage is a man and s woman, it does not need to operate outside of this definition.
Although the current social includes homosexual relationships, the core belief of the church does not change based on social norm.
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flugo
Excellent!
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Don
The church changed its "core beliefs" regarding slavery and the treatment of women based on "current social norms" - why are they remaining ignorant bigots on this one?
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Don
Religious organizations should not have racist, sexist, or homophobic doctrines that are based on ignorance. Sadly, many do.
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Dr. Griffith
At the very least they want the children. All of the Christians scream about abortion being wrong and save the "children," but once that child is born no one cares about it. There should be no child without a home because Christians that are anti-choice should be adopting all of the unwanted children and raising them with love, respect, and proper financial support through an undergraduate education, or what the child chooses to do after high school. Again, people who want to raise the unwanted children should be allowed too because Christians are not doing it. Where is the love you so often speak about?
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Tom B
David...i totally agree...unfortunately, hypocrisy does not bother opinionated persons...Peace... Tom B
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Thomas Lippert
Yes, yes, yes.
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Mary
God isn’t real and you’re a nonce
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bakoa
Nothing exists Without prior knowledge. Everything needs a pattern from which it comes to be. So if a person is gay that gay behavior did not manifest from thin air unless humans are gods and we create something. If we can create behavior out if thin air then we are gods otherwise god too has gay in it from which the human gay came from. So to say man is born sinful is to say god is sin, otherwise is to say man creates sin in which case man is god because man creates sin. You see the pagan in religion now? Any religion really is Paganism because it is blind belief without logic. A grain of logic blows up a mountain of faith.
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preacher richard h.
Adam was created without sin until he disobeyed GOD an eat from the tree of knowledge, he an eve were banned from the garden of Eden, Hence forth all men were born into Sin Penalty for Sin is Death ,To be cast out of GODS Grace an Light. It took Gods sacrifice of Jesus One without Sin to Pay for the Sins of Man . we are only redeemed through Faith in Jesus Christ
Homosexuality is a Choice Man makes not God just say you wont be Gay Just for today Say that every morning an you can recover. amen
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Delphine Manigo
Why are Christians homophobic?
Question: "Why are Christians homophobic?"
Answer: By definition, homophobia is fear of homosexuals, but its meaning has been broadened to include hate for homosexuals. Correspondingly, being homophobic tends to manifest itself through an outward demonstration or behavior based on such a feeling. This, in turn, sometimes leads to acts of violence or expressions of hostility. The truth is that homophobia is not just confined to any one segment of society. It can be found in people from all walks of life. Such hate groups have viciously attacked homosexuals and have used especially violent language in attempting to persecute and intimidate homosexuals.
More often than not, Christians are said to be homophobic simply because they condemn homosexual behavior as sin. But the fact is that the term homophobic is merely a word used by homosexual activists and supporters in their attempts to deflect a genuine criticism of an immoral and unhealthy practice. Without question, there are people and organizations who have developed an irrational hate of homosexuals and who are prepared to use violent actions to inflict suffering upon homosexuals. However, the problem is that the homosexual-rights activists have accused anyone who opposes homosexuality of harboring similar hatred. Therefore, Christians who rightly discern that homosexuality is an unnatural sin are equated with violent lunatics who hate for hatred’s sake.
While the Bible strongly condemns homosexuality, it never instructs that homosexuals are to be hated. As Christians, we are to speak out against the perversion of homosexual activity. The Bible is explicit in its condemnation of it, as well as God’s wrath towards those who practice such behavior. As Christians, we are called to clearly and lovingly call sin for what it is. Using the term homophobia to refer to anyone who opposes homosexuality is a distraction, not a valid argument or accurate representation. A Christian should have only one fear regarding homosexuals, the fear that they will suffer eternally because of their decision to reject the only means of salvation—the Lord Jesus Christ who offers the only hope for escape from a degrading and destructive lifestyle.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Delphine Manigo, your post here is based on the assumption that fear and hate are always or usually mutually exclusive and locked into different and separate compartments of human thinking and feeling, whereas, in reality, in everyday life with most people, they are mutually inducing and complementary. People hate what they fear and fear what they hate. The Nazis both hated and feared the Jews and hated them all the more because they feared them! White racists fear black people (with good reason for all of their crimes against them!), but even before slavery and so much discrimination against black people, they feared them just because they are different in appearance and anything different than they were was "wrong" and "fearful" to them, and that made them hate them and commit all of these crimes against them. Homophobic people both fear and hate gay people because they couldn't be against gay rights and gay marriage unless they hated them, just as white racists and segregationists were against black people's civil and human rights because they hated them. Homophobes aren't honest with themselves about their hatred of gay people and disguise it under the camouflage of "concern for these poor misguided people and desire to keep them out of Hell" or something else along those lines, but their not being honest with themselves and playing all of these games with themselves about their hatred of gay people, in order to maintain their delusion to themselves and others that they are "loving and caring people", isn't the same thing at all as their not actually hating gay people. The same as white racists toward black people, these homophobes hate gay people because they are different and different is "always wrong", according to them. Don't you believe and, in fact, know that "Christophobes" (people whom, you say, are "afraid of Christ") also "really hate Christ", according to you? Why, if you do, would you apply a different standard toward homophobia than you do toward the "phobia against Christ and all Christians", except to make yourselves feel like martyrs again and to have another double standard? Once again, I'm telling you, as I have told all other homophobes here that I can find, the Bible only calls homosexuality a "sin" because it was written by homophobes, who merely put their words into "God's mouth" and made "Him" say whatever they wanted "Him" to say, in order to "sanctify" and "justify" their own bigotry and impose it upon other people much easier. So, it makes no more sense to believe or follow the Bible's teachings about homosexuality than it does to believe or follow Mein Kampf's teachings about Jews, since they are both equally bigoted and biased sources on those subjects!
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Delphine Manigo
Does God hate fags?
Please note - we are reluctant to even use the term "fags." We intend no offense or insult. We only use the word in response to the group which promotes the "God hates fags" concept.
Question: "Does God hate fags?"
Answer: There is a "church" in the United States that promotes the slogan "God hates fags!" This group pickets gay parades, gay bars, gay events, etc. This group has even picketed the funerals of gay people, shouting to the attendees that the gay person is now burning in hell for being a "fag." On its website, this group has a counter which updates daily how long a certain gay person has supposedly been in hell. Recently, the "God hates fags" group has begun protesting at military funerals, claiming that the soldier was killed because the USA is supporting the homosexual agenda. Is there any truth to their claims?
Proverbs 6:16-19 tells us, "There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers." Notice that homosexuality does not make this list. It would be more biblical to promote phrases such as "God hates liars" and "God hates murderers." In fact, the Bible nowhere directly states that God hates homosexuals.
That does not mean that the Bible approves of homosexuality. The Bible consistently tells us that homosexuality is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Homosexuality is described as an abomination. Romans 1:26-27 teaches explicitly that homosexuality is a result of a continual rebellion against God. When people continue in disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over,” allowing them to experience their sinful desires and the resulting consequences. First Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. Homosexuality is immoral and unnatural. It is a perversion of the "natural order" and, more importantly, of God's view of sex.
With all that said, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a greater sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17). While the Bible declares that God hates all workers of iniquity (Psalm 5:5), the Bible nowhere singles out homosexuals as objects of God's hatred.
Does God approve of homosexuality? Absolutely not. Can a person truly be a Christian and at the same time a practicing homosexual? No (1 Corinthians 6:9). While the "God hates fags" group is correct in proclaiming that homosexuality is sin, it fails miserably in the tone of its proclamation. Ephesians 4:15 instructs us to "speak the truth...in love." First Peter 3:15 teaches us to proclaim the truth, but to do so with "gentleness and respect." We must uphold the truth of God's Word in proclaiming the sinfulness of homosexuality. However, we must uphold this truth in a loving, gentle, and respectful manner. We must warn homosexuals about the eternal dangers of continued rebellion against God. At the same time, our message should be focused on the forgiveness and freedom from sin that are available through the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Delphine Manigo, you write "Does God approve of homosexuality? Absolutely not". Neither you nor any other homophobic person in this blog or in the world speaks for God and the homophobes who wrote those verses in the Bible condemning homosexuality and put their words into "God's mouth" didn't speak for God, either! So, since your premise for your post here is faulty and fallacious, your entire post is fallacious and wrong, which is just basic logic. Enough said about that!
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Delphine Manigo
Is it possible to be a gay Christian?
Question: "Is it possible to be a gay Christian?"
Answer: “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). There is a tendency to declare homosexuality as the worst of all sins. While it is undeniable, biblically speaking, that homosexuality is immoral and unnatural (Romans 1:26-27), in no sense does the Bible describe homosexuality as an unforgivable sin. Nor does the Bible teach that homosexuality is a sin Christians will never struggle against.
Perhaps that is the key phrase in the question of whether it is possible to be a gay Christian: “struggle against.” It is possible for a Christian to struggle with homosexual temptations. Many homosexuals who become Christians have ongoing struggles with homosexual feelings and desires. Some strongly heterosexual men and women have experienced a “spark” of homosexual interest at some point in their lives. Whether or not these desires and temptations exist does not determine whether a person is a Christian. The Bible is clear that no Christian is sinless (1 John 1:8,10). While the specific sin / temptation varies from one Christian to another, all Christians have struggles with sin, and all Christians sometimes fail in those struggles (1 Corinthians 10:13).
What differentiates a Christian’s life from a non-Christian’s life is the struggle against sin. The Christian life is a progressive journey of overcoming the “acts of the flesh” (Galatians 5:19-21) and allowing God’s Spirit to produce the “fruit of the Spirit” (Galatians 5:22-23). Yes, Christians sin, sometimes horribly. Sadly, sometimes Christians are indistinguishable from non-Christians. However, a true Christian will always repent, will always eventually return to God, and will always resume the struggle against sin. But the Bible gives no support for the idea that a person who perpetually and unrepentantly engages in sin can indeed be a Christian. Notice 1 Corinthians 6:11, "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
First Corinthians 6:9-10 lists sins that, if indulged in continuously, identify a person as not being redeemed—not being a Christian. Often, homosexuality is singled out from this list. If a person struggles with homosexual temptations, that person is presumed to be unsaved. If a person actually engages in homosexual acts, that person is definitely thought to be unsaved. However, the same assumptions are not made, at least not with the same emphasis, regarding other sins in the list: fornication (pre-marital sex), idolatry, adultery, thievery, covetousness, alcoholism, slander, and deceit. It is inconsistent, for example, to declare those guilty of pre-marital sex as “disobedient Christians,” while declaring homosexuals definitively non-Christians.
Is it possible to be a gay Christian? If the phrase “gay Christian” refers to a person who struggles against homosexual desires and temptations – yes, a “gay Christian” is possible. However, the description “gay Christian” is not accurate for such a person, since he/she does not desire to be gay, and is struggling against the temptations. Such a person is not a “gay Christian,” but rather is simply a struggling Christian, just as there are Christians who struggle with fornication, lying, and stealing. If the phrase “gay Christian” refers to a person who actively, perpetually, and unrepentantly lives a homosexual lifestyle – no, it is not possible for such a person to truly be a Christian.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Delphine Manigo, Christian isn't synonymous with straight or else all straight people would be Christians, which even you can see isn't the case. "Christian" means (as far as is possible for any human being, which isn't much!) a follower and lover of Jesus Christ---and not necessarily or, really, at all a follower of all the restrictions that Bible writers and people since Jesus have tried (and succeeded with most people) in pinning on "following Jesus", in order to make him support their agenda. Homophobia and conservatism are the two main "requirements" that these people have falsely pinned onto "following Jesus". Your or anyone else's quoting Bible verses, written by homophobes and put into "God's mouth", condemning homosexuality is as circular and illogical a tactic as someone's quoting Mein Kampf, written by an antiSemite, in order to "prove" the "inferiority" and "vileness" of Jews. Neither list of quotations actually proves anything against their subjects, but only something about the human beings who wrote those words: namely, that they were bigots! So, it is definitely possible for someone to be a gay Christian, if they love Jesus and follow him (and not the rules that have grown up around him and been pinned on him), as much as any straight person can be a Christian the same way.
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Delphine Manigo
What does the Bible say about gay marriage / same sex marriage?
Question: "What does the Bible say about gay marriage / same sex marriage?"
Answer: While the Bible does address homosexuality, it does not explicitly mention gay marriage/same-sex marriage. It is clear, however, that the Bible condemns homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural sin. Leviticus 18:22 identifies homosexual sex as an abomination, a detestable sin. Romans 1:26-27 declares homosexual desires and actions to be shameful, unnatural, lustful, and indecent. First Corinthians 6:9 states that homosexuals are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God. Since both homosexual desires and actions are condemned in the Bible, it is clear that homosexuals “marrying” is not God’s will, and would be, in fact, sinful.
Whenever the Bible mentions marriage, it is between a male and a female. The first mention of marriage, Genesis 2:24, describes it as a man leaving his parents and being united to his wife. In passages that contain instructions regarding marriage, such as 1 Corinthians 7:2-16 and Ephesians 5:23-33, the Bible clearly identifies marriage as being between a man and a woman. Biblically speaking, marriage is the lifetime union of a man and a woman, primarily for the purpose of building a family and providing a stable environment for that family.
The Bible alone, however, does not have to be used to demonstrate this understanding of marriage. The biblical viewpoint of marriage has been the universal understanding of marriage in every human civilization in world history. History argues against gay marriage. Modern secular psychology recognizes that men and women are psychologically and emotionally designed to complement one another. In regard to the family, psychologists contend that a union between a man and woman in which both spouses serve as good gender role models is the best environment in which to raise well-adjusted children. Psychology argues against gay marriage. In nature/physicality, clearly, men and women were designed to “fit” together sexually. With the “natural” purpose of sexual intercourse being procreation, clearly only a sexual relationship between a man and a woman can fulfill this purpose. Nature argues against gay marriage.
So, if the Bible, history, psychology, and nature all argue for marriage being between a man and a woman—why is there such a controversy today? Why are those who are opposed to gay marriage/same-sex marriage labeled as hateful, intolerant bigots, no matter how respectfully the opposition is presented? Why is the gay rights movement so aggressively pushing for gay marriage/same-sex marriage when most people, religious and non-religious, are supportive of—or at least far less opposed to—gay couples having all the same legal rights as married couples with some form of civil union?
The answer, according to the Bible, is that everyone inherently knows that homosexuality is immoral and unnatural, and the only way to suppress this inherent knowledge is by normalizing homosexuality and attacking any and all opposition to it. The best way to normalize homosexuality is by placing gay marriage/same-sex marriage on an equal plane with traditional opposite-gender marriage. Romans 1:18-32 illustrates this. The truth is known because God has made it plain. The truth is rejected and replaced with a lie. The lie is then promoted and the truth suppressed and attacked. The vehemence and anger expressed by many in the gay rights movement to any who oppose them is, in fact, an indication that they know their position is indefensible. Trying to overcome a weak position by raising your voice is the oldest trick in the debating book. There is perhaps no more accurate description of the modern gay rights agenda than Romans 1:31, “they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.”
To give sanction to gay marriage/same-sex marriage would be to give approval to the homosexual lifestyle, which the Bible clearly and consistently condemns as sinful. Christians should stand firmly against the idea of gay marriage/same-sex marriage. Further, there are strong and logical arguments against gay marriage/same-sex marriage from contexts completely separated from the Bible. One does not have to be an evangelical Christian to recognize that marriage is between a man and a woman.
According to the Bible, marriage is ordained by God to be between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:21-24; Matthew 19:4-6). Gay marriage/same-sex marriage is a perversion of the institution of marriage and an offense to the God who created marriage. As Christians, we are not to condone or ignore sin. Rather, we are to share the love of God and the forgiveness of sins that is available to all, including homosexuals, through Jesus Christ. We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15) and contend for truth with “gentleness and respect” (1 Peter 3:15). As Christians, when we make a stand for truth and the result is personal attacks, insults, and persecution, we should remember the words of Jesus: “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you” (John 15:18-19).
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Delphine Manigo
Question: "What does the Bible say about homosexuality? Is homosexuality a sin?"
Answer: In some people’s minds, being homosexual is as much outside one’s control as the color of your skin and your height. On the other hand, the Bible clearly and consistently declares that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1–13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26–27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). This disconnect leads to much controversy, debate, and even hostility.
When examining what the Bible says about homosexuality, it is important to distinguish between homosexual behavior and homosexual inclinations or attractions. It is the difference between active sin and the passive condition of being tempted. Homosexual behavior is sinful, but the Bible never says it is a sin to be tempted. Simply stated, a struggle with temptation may lead to sin, but the struggle itself is not a sin.
Romans 1:26–27 teaches that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. One of the fruits of rebellion against God is homosexuality. First Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that those who practice homosexuality, and therefore transgress God’s created order, are not saved.
A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. Just because a person is born with a greater susceptibility to fits of rage, that doesn’t make it right for him to give in to those desires and explode at every provocation. The same is true with a susceptibility to homosexuality.
No matter our proclivities or attractions, we cannot continue to define ourselves by the very sins that crucified Jesus—and at the same time assume we are right with God. Paul lists many of the sins that the Corinthians once practiced (homosexuality is on the list). But in 1 Corinthians 6:11, he reminds them, “That is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (emphasis added). In other words, some of the Corinthians, before they were saved, lived homosexual lifestyles; but no sin is too great for the cleansing power of Jesus. Once cleansed, we are no longer defined by sin.
The problem with homosexual attraction is that it is an attraction to something God has forbidden, and any desire for something sinful ultimately has its roots in sin. The pervasive nature of sin causes us to see the world and our own actions through a warped perspective. Our thoughts, desires, and dispositions are all affected. So, homosexual attraction does not always result in active, willful sin—there may not be a conscious choice to sin—but it springs from the sinful nature. Same-sex attraction is always, on some basic level, an expression of the fallen nature.
As sinful human beings living in a sinful world (Romans 3:23), we are beset with weaknesses, temptations, and inducements to sin. Our world is filled with lures and entrapments, including the enticement to practice homosexuality.
The temptation to engage in homosexual behavior is very real to many. Those who struggle with homosexual attraction often report suffering through years of wishing things were different. People may not always be able to control how or what they feel, but they can control what they do with those feelings (1 Peter 1:5–8). We all have the responsibility to resist temptation (Ephesians 6:13). We must all be transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2). We must all “walk by the Spirit” so as not to “gratify the desires of the flesh” (Galatians 5:16).
Finally, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Without Christ, we are lost, whatever type of sin has entangled us. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is available to the homosexual just as it is to the adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, and thief. God promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).
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Delphine Manigo
What does the New Testament say about homosexuality?
Question: "What does the New Testament say about homosexuality?"
Answer: The Bible is consistent through both Old and New Testaments in confirming that homosexuality is sin (Genesis 19:1–13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26–27; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Jude 1:7). In this matter, the New Testament reinforces what the Old Testament had declared since the Law was given to Moses (Leviticus 20:13). The difference between the Old and New Testaments is that the New Testament offers hope and restoration to those caught up in the sin of homosexuality through the redeeming power of Jesus. It is the same hope that is offered to anyone who chooses to accept it (John 1:12; 3:16–18).
God’s standards of holiness did not change with the coming of Jesus, because God does not change (Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8). The New Testament is a continuing revelation of God’s interaction with humanity. God hated idolatry in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 5:8), and He still hates it in the New (1 John 5:21). What was immoral in the Old Testament is still immoral in the New.
The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.
Homosexuality is not the cause of a society’s decline, but it is a symptom of it; it is the result of people making themselves the final authorities. Romans 1 gives the natural digression of a society that has chosen idolatry and sinful pleasure instead of obedience to God. The downward spiral begins with denying that God has absolute authority over His creation (Romans 1:21–23).
The result of a society’s rejection of God’s rule in their lives is that God gives “them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator” (Romans 1:24–25). Verses 26 and 27 say, “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.” The phrase “God gave them over” means that, when we insist on shaking our fists at God, He finally lets us have the perversion we demand. And that is a judgment in itself. Homosexual behavior is the result of ignoring God and trying to create our own truth. When we defy God’s clear instruction, we reap the “due penalty” of our disobedience (2 Thessalonians 1:8–9; Revelation 21:8).
The good news is that homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin. It is forgivable just like greed, theft, and murder are forgivable when we repent and turn to Jesus (Acts 2:38). He provides us with new identities (1 Peter 1:14; Colossians 2:13). Second Corinthians 5:17 says that “if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!” Those “old” things include former sins that once held us captive. Whereas we were once defined by our sin, being born again (John 3:3) means we are now defined by Jesus and His righteousness (Colossians 3:3). A thief no longer has to define himself as a thief. He is cleansed from his former ways and made new in Christ. A murderer—such as Saul before he became the apostle Paul—is forgiven and conformed to the image of Christ (Galatians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 15:9; Romans 8:29). And someone trapped in homosexuality can be set free to walk in purity when he or she agrees with God about sin and trusts His power to forgive and restore.
As has been noted, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10 includes homosexuals in a list of those who will not have a part in God’s kingdom. But verse 11 goes on to say, “Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” The truth is that some of the saints in the Corinthian church were former homosexuals. God’s kingdom is populated by sinners. No one comes to God on personal merit. We all come the same way: through repentance, renouncing the sin for which Jesus died, and accepting the righteousness of Christ in its place (2 Corinthians 5:21).
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Delphine Manigo
Does the Bible call Christians to defend the faith / argue for the faith?
Question: "Does the Bible call Christians to defend the faith / argue for the faith?"
Answer: The classic verse promoting apologetics (the defense of the Christian faith) is 1 Peter 3:15, which says that believers are to make a defense "for the hope that you have." The only way to do this effectively is to study the reasons why we believe what we believe. This will prepare us to "demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ,” as Paul said we should (2 Corinthians 10:5). Paul practiced what he preached; in fact, defending the faith was his regular activity (Philippians 1:7). He refers to apologetics as an aspect of his mission in the same passage (v.16). He also made apologetics a requirement for church leadership in Titus 1:9. Jude, an apostle of Jesus, wrote that "although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (v.3).
Where did the apostles get these ideas? From the Master Himself. Jesus was His own apologetic, as He often stated that we should believe in Him because of the evidence He provided (John 2:23; 10:25; 10:38; 14:29). In fact, the whole Bible is full of divine miracles that confirm what God wants us to believe (Exodus 4:1-8; 1 Kings 18:36-39; Acts 2:22-43; Hebrews 2:3-4; 2 Corinthians 12:12). People rightly refuse to believe something without evidence. Since God created humans as rational beings, we should not be surprised when He expects us to live rationally. As Norman Geisler says, “This does not mean there is no room for faith. But God wants us to take a step of faith in the light of evidence, rather than to leap in the dark.”
Those who oppose these clear biblical teachings and examples may say, “The Word of God does not need to be defended!” But which of the world’s writings are the Word of God? As soon as someone answers that, he is doing apologetics. Some claim that human reason cannot tell us anything about God—but that statement itself is a "reasonable" statement about God. If it’s not, then there is no reason to believe it. A favorite saying is, “If someone can talk you into Christianity, then someone else can talk you out.” Why is this a problem? Did not Paul himself give a criterion (the resurrection) by which Christianity should be accepted or rejected in 1 Corinthians 15? It is only misplaced piety that answers in the negative.
None of this is to say that apologetics alone, apart from the influence of the Holy Spirit, can bring someone to saving faith. This creates a false dilemma in the minds of many. But it does not have to be “Sprit versus Logic.” Why not both? The Holy Spirit must move someone to a position of belief, but how He accomplishes this is up to Him. With some people God uses trials; in others it is an emotional experience; in others it is through reason. God can use whatever means He wants. We, however, are commanded to use apologetics in as many or more places as we are told to preach the gospel.
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Don
You are the most verbose hateful ignorant troll coward I've ever seen on here. Um, bravo?
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Joni
Flingo
Here your response please read the Bible the answer you search for is in there! I can not open your eyes to whats in front of you only god can do that for you.
Have a bless day
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I have worked for many, many years in child welfare, and much of that in treatment foster care. A parent is a parent and a child is a child. Parents are looking to create families, and kids need and are looking for forever homes. It's the "match" that is important... that bonding of kids to adults with whom they feel safe, protected, and nurtured. Kids also grow up in a loving, nurturing homes with parents of opposite genders... and then mom, or dad (or both) come to terms with their sexuality: it's not the sexuality of their parents that cause issues for the kids: mom and dad are just mom and dad. But there are changes in relationships: separations, new partners, new step parents... it's no different than if parents were separating and finding new different-sex partners. Never underestimate the kids... their capacity to embrace parents of all backgrounds is enormous....
Reb TK...I agree...well said...Peace...Tom B