Does "Thou Shalt Not Kill" apply to alleged murderers?
Attorney General Pam Bondi recently directed federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty for Luigi Mangione, the man accused of murdering UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson last year.
Thompson was shot in the early morning hours last December 4th outside the entrance of the New York Hilton Midtown, and Mangione was later identified as the alleged gunman.
Given widespread contempt for the healthcare insurance industry, he garnered sympathy in some online circles. Scores of commenters praised the killing, with many viewing Thompson as a symbol of an immoral and corrupt healthcare system which has killed millions through denied claims. Others, however, condemned the murder, arguing that even if the American healthcare system is a greed-driven, exploitative enterprise, murder is not the way to reform it.
Read More: Is It Immoral to Celebrate a CEO's Murder?
The directive for prosecutors to seek the death penalty has similarly been controversial. For Christians, is killing a killer an act of justice, or hypocrisy?
Is the Death Penalty Biblical?
The death penalty has long been controversial, particularly in Christian circles. The 6th Commandment explicitly forbids killing, after all. But what if the person being killed is themselves a killer?
Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, says that changes things. In a recent podcast, Mohler stated that the death penalty “comes directly from the word of God.”
Mohler cited Genesis 9:6, which reads “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.”
“The principle of capital punishment is intentionally revealed by God so as to underline the sanctity of human life, the dignity of human life, the worth of human life,” Mohler explained. “And it’s not just human life valuable on its own, but it’s because we are made in God’s image.”
Senior Pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas, Dr. Robert Jeffress, recently echoed the sentiment that the death penalty is biblical. Appearing on Fox News, Dr. Jeffress cited the same scripture. “God was saying [that] human life is so precious, so important, that anyone who dares take that human life ought to pay the ultimate price,” he explained. “This isn’t just an Old Testament [principle].”
“In the New Testament, Romans 13, Paul says, ‘Government is established by God. It does not bear the sword for nothing, but it’s an avenger who brings wrath upon those who practice evil,’” Jeffress said.
“Capital punishment does not contradict the sanctity of human life. It actually affirms the preciousness of human life. And thankfully we have an attorney general and a president who understand that.”
Former NFL head coach Tony Dungy added his voice to the debate online by arguing that the penalty "was instituted by God":
Is It Unchristian to Take a Life?
While a number of prominent evangelicals came out in support of AG Bondi’s death penalty directive for Mangione, other Christian denominations – including the Roman Catholic Church, the United Methodist Church, the Presbyterian Church (USA), and the American Baptist Churches in the USA – still say that the death penalty simply cannot be reconciled with "Thou Shalt Not Kill."
In fact, back in 2018, Pope Francis revised the Catholic Church’s stance to be that capital punishment is “morally inadmissible" in all cases.
Some commenters online agreed, arguing that even if Mangione is found guilty, the Christian stance is imprisonment – not death.
Other commenters on Reddit sought to introduce nuance into the debate. As one user put it:
I don’t agree with the death penalty (at least outside of very extreme circumstances). I’m largely in favor of eliminating the federal death penalty... But we all also know perfectly well that the Commandment is a prohibition against murder and not the imposition of the death penalty and that the long run of understanding of this law as it was given in Hebrew is not one that encompasses the death penalty, as also seen by the repeated imposition of the death penalty by the ancient Israelites after the time of the Ten Commandments.
What is your response? Is there a biblical basis for the death penalty, or is the 6th Commandment absolute? Does the severity of Mangione's alleged crime change the equation?
99 comments
-
Reverend Paula Copp
I believe Jesus said, “let you who are without sin cast the first stone…”
-
Lionheart
Who knows what Jesus ever really said, assuming he was real. 🤷
🦁❤️
-
Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Did you miss "Christians" torn about death penalty. Nobody asked about trolls and the death penalty.
-
Lionheart
No I didn’t miss the original post topic, I was merely responding to Lady Paula’s comment referencing something a man was supposed to have possibly said 2,000+ years ago in an attempt to try and add substance to the topic, which of course is very sketchy when we really have no idea what that man was supposed to have said, let alone existed. Thank you for your comment though. I’m sure you meant well. 🤗
🦁❤️
-
Cyril R. VanKeirsbelk
Given the context, it's necessary to assume the existence of Jesus. Christians, like myself, approach the issue from the position that Jesus is real. As a person who disagrees with that position can not be a Christian, and the discussion is about what Christians think, your original comment was off topic for the discussion.
You are entitled to your beliefs, of course, but this discussion is about what Christians think about the death penalty in regards to their beliefs. Please feel free to share your opinions about how Christians stick to or are incongruent with their beliefs. But those beliefs being correct or not is deviates from the topic under discussion.
-
Lionheart
Yes, you are welcome to assume the existence of Jesus was real, and someone like him may well have existed, but when people make a comment insisting they know what he said, I will reply to that comment, but thank you for your thoughts on the matter, Sir.
🦁❤️
-
-
Rev. BH
Lionheart, please! Stop your endless "if Jesus existed" addenda to every post. "The idea that Jesus was a purely mythical figure has been, and is still, considered an untenable fringe theory in academic scholarship for more than two centuries" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus) (Or, your encyclopedia!) You often make interesting points, then shoot yourself in the foot with that repetitive, incorrect comment.
You are correct however, in repeating that no-one knows what he said. No tape recorders. Leave it at that.
-
Lionheart
Thank you for asking me to stop my endless reminders of whether Jesus ever existed. While ever members will insist on their endless references to his existence, which might in fact be true, I will continue to add my endless comments, as they add their endless comments, as though we have never heard it before.
🦁❤️
-
Sarah Murphy
I have noticed this pattern with atheists, they seem to be driven to let everyone know that they do not believe in Jesus or God, even when it is completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. And depending on the situation, if you are in front of them, they will go on and on with the exact same super rigid, ears and eyes closed, 2 dimensional argument that I used to say myself, and with this frustration. They tend to be so tense and angry about people believing in God, like, why do they even care? Look the other way or something. I now believe it is the same pattern we see when people are lying to themselves about something..repression turns into an angry projection fueled by jealousy because they want to be happy, they want to be decent people so when they see others getting satisfaction and support from a belief system that they are outside of because they are disconnected from God/Universe/Creative Energy. From now on, observe how atheists behave and notice how they are stuck and miserable in their lives and they wish they could believe in a God too, but they don't know how to get there because they didn't have a mentor or model for it. I am saying this because I personally went through a long atheist period and I am actually just finally climbing out of it.
-
-
-
-
-
ServantOfJudgement
I trust you see the difference between a prostitute and a premeditated cold blooded murderer Paula.
I'm super cool with people not believing the Bible is what it says it is. I get that point of view really easily. I never could figure out why someone who doesn't believe the bible would quote quote it so often. I still can't.
Either way, even a child could see the difference between a person having sex for money and a rich kid poking holes in a guy's back with hot lead to satisfy his anger.
-
Cyril R. VanKeirsbelk
But what about a person who is doing harmful things to you, your friends, your family and your community to the point it can result in their deaths? Isn't that more like defending oneself and others?
When someone shows callous disregard for the lives of others and takes actions that can result in their deaths, for money, hasn't the social contract been broken? No, it's not right to even kill a wicked man, but does someone who slays a wicked man deserve to be put to death?
-
ServantOfJudgement
Cryil,
You're right. There's a growing epidemic of sick or injured people not getting coverage even though they have coverage. When hospitals are owned by insurance companies who front the paycheck for doctors, we can expect poor healthcare for the poor.
We can thank our Congress on both sides of the aisle for this. They allowed these corporations to collectively gain a monopoly over us humans.
I fell of a drunken horse (maybe the other way around) a few years back and broke my shoulder. The hospital I went to must have doubled as a veterinarian clinic and thought I was the horse. I walked away with a prescription for 800mg of ibuprofen. That's it. That's all my insurance would allow. Been in pain ever since and the shoulder is still funky.
It's a real pickle we're in. Us little folk that is.
-
-
-
David Hinckley
And after that we'll go by age and then height.
-
-
Ronaldo
Before anyone decides whether or not Mr. Mangione should be put to death for his crime, let's first prove he committed the crime. There are no eyewitnesses to him shooting the victim, because he was masked at the time. While casings retrieved at the site of the crime "matched" the ghost gun found in his possession, there is no statement yet that the bullets that killed the victim ballistically matched bullets fired from the gun. As of the end of February, the prosecution was still withholding evidence from the defense lawyers. The authorities have a lot of circumstantial evidence, but there are already some arguments being made that some of that evidence was collected illegally.
All that being said, if he did indeed commit the crime, he should be punished accordingly. The good or evil nature of the victim should never be a concern to the law, for there are no villains in this world. Ask any of them, they'll tell you. And we should always remember that Christ was charged, tried, convicted, and put to death for His crimes, so we are worshipping a convicted criminal.
-
Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
I’m a firm believer in the death penalty under specific circumstances. If there is zero doubt and 100% proof of guilt then yes, put the perpetrator to death. Robert Dear, James Holmes and others. I also support the death penalty for sexual molesters.
Some people believe that the death penalty does nothing to deter such crimes. However, they permanently deter the perpetrator who has been put to death.
-
Rev. BH
Elizabeth, and permanently hurts and angers the friends, relatives and associates of the executed. What collateral response may result? Shun the executed's innocent families? Dox a judge and jury? Attack a lawyer? Killing a killer is just another killing. And the possible start of an unending vicious cycle.
-
-
James Trenton Smith
The original bible does not say "Thou Shalt not Kill". It says "Thou Shalt not Murder."
-
Sarah Murphy
yes. And, even if we were to interpret the other quote in Genesis regarding if one man murder, than his blood shall be spilt by man because man is in the image of God, than actually, the CEO was murdering people systematically, "not his fault, they were sick." And would still be murdering people by refusing claims even though he was making $22 BILLION every YEAR. Capitalism. And it can only get worse because none of us are willing to change our own lives, sacrifice our own selves for the common good. "Give away all your possessions, leave your family traditions, pick up your cross, and follow me." That was not a suggestion, that is the only way forward
-
J Orville Adams
Murder is killing with malice. So, is there any killing that occurs without hate? The answer is yes, heat of passion, accident, that's why there are degrees of murder. And, in Mangioni's case this is the biggest hurdle for the state to overcome. Was it passion or was it hate? From what I have read Mangioni killed because the insurance company denied claims which lead to the untimely death of a loved one...
-
James Riggle-Johnson
By definition, a crime of passion is in the moment, not realizing the gravity of what you’re doing. Mangione thought long and hard about this. He created a plan and stalked him. He purchased a gun and ammunition, which he marked with a message. He planned his escape route, then followed Thompson, snuck up behind him, and shot him. There is no passion there. That was a cold, calculated, well-thought-out, planned murder.
-
-
-
John C. Myers
Execute him please.
-
Robert James Ruhnke
For what? Standing up for the working class? For reminding the billionaires and millionaires that we are many and they are few and there are consequences for inflicting suffering on the masses?
-
John
Powerful people like politicians and CEOs make decisions that have huge consequences. Often those consequences lead to a loss of life. Colin Powell, Dick Chaney, George Bush and others knew well that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. But there was more money to be made in destroying and rebuilding Iraq than Afghanistan. Soldiers went to battle and some to their death under the lie that their service was essential in the safety of America. Powerful get away with it and repeat the lie so often that they believe it thus giving them a clear conscious. How does this minister feel about it. If I had been Chaney's heart surgeon in 2012, I would have quietly had him die.
-
ServantOfJudgement
John, good memory with those politicians you listed that caused people to die. That said you forgot a couple for some reason. Here, let me fill in the gaps.
Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, President Trump, Mike Pence, Barack Hussein Obama, Joe Biden, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton, George Bush, Ronald Reagan, Jim Carter, oh and let's not forget Hillary Clinton, she's better than most men when it comes to this sort of thing.
-
-
Rev. Donut
No. he would not be executed for standing up for what he may believe.
But, because he (allegedly) planned to shoot someone in the back and then (allegedly) did it. He may be found guilty.
Shooting someone in the back as they move away from you would be a cowardly, lefty, way to do it by the way.
If found guilty in court he may face the death penalty. Calling for the death penalty and then getting it are two different things.
This guy made the decision (allegedly) to become the jury and take matters into his own hands.
The person he shot (allegedly) did not get the opportunity to go to court for his (alleged) crimes.
Although, I don't think the penalty for any kind of insurance fraud is death.
I'm betting thousands of fraudulent insurance claims are filed monthly.
How about this. A punk, armed thug goes into a fast food shop with a gun waving it around, and demands burgers and fries. . He gets the burgers and fries then leaves the gun on the counter and runs for the door.
Another, angry, customer feels he has been somehow wronged and picks up the gun and runs after the punk and fires a shot hitting the thug in the back and kills the thug.as he is running out of that door.
The customer made himself the jury and took matters into his own hands.
Is he guilty of murder or manslaughter or should he be applauded?
-
-
-
Merlin
Terrorist or Patriot. Defender or killer. Depends sometimes on the view.
-
James Riggle-Johnson
I’m still amazed that some people see this man as a hero or believe he should be released. Whatever your view on the death penalty, he killed another human being, and murder is never justified. The victim deserved due process, too, didn’t he? Luigi is getting more consideration than he gave his victim.
It wasn’t just one man behind the failures of our healthcare system. Corporate boards, shareholders, and even government policy all play a role. But Luigi didn’t target the system—he chose to take a life. The problem with healthcare wasn’t Thompson’s sole responsibility.
If there’s truly zero doubt about guilt, not just “beyond a reasonable doubt”—then I have no issue with the death penalty.
-
Lady Mutt Cat
It most definitely is justified in certain cases. Defense of self is one. Defense of others is another.
-
ServantOfJudgement
Surely the systematic deportation of criminals to defend legal citizens is justified.
If murder is justified for the defense of one then allowing a criminal to live in their own country for the defense of millions is far less harsh that killing them.
Lady Mutt Cat, you're not suggesting Trump executes illegal aliens to defend us citizens are you? I don't think I'd like that. Maybe you should reexamine your logic.
-
-
-
Anthony G Keller
This argument can be very subjective. For example, if members of the IDF are celebrated for putting a bullet in the head of a child, how does it seem fair that that we execute someone for a random act, appalling as it is. If there is hope for this individual then dig a little deeper to find out why, then make your decision. There are people in our prisons who have done far, far worse who are ready and willing to do it all over again when they get out. The message this send out is "Don't mess with the people who control the money, who own or run our big corporates. They are protected by us, because this is what will happen to you if you do, we don't care who you are"
-
Richard Conte
The exact translation of the Sixth Commandment depends slightly on the version and language of the Bible being referenced. In Hebrew, from the Masoretic Text of Exodus 20:13, the commandment is:
לֹא תִּרְצָח Lo tirtsach
This is most accurately translated as:
“You shall not murder.”
Key point: • The Hebrew verb רָצַח (ratsach) refers specifically to murder, which is unlawful or immoral killing, rather than all forms of killing (such as in war, self-defense, or capital punishment).
-
James Riggle-Johnson
Thank you for that, Richard. I didn't know that. I've learned something new.
-
-
David Hinckley
I used to be pro-death penalty. Now, with the evidence that people were executed for crimes they didn't comit, I've changed. I want the murderers to live with what they did, even if we have to feed and house them. Even admitted child rapists deserve to live in the general prison population. If they get beaten to death by other innates, they made their choices when the did the crime.
-
Sarah Murphy
Mohler cited Genesis 9:6, which reads “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.” The CEO is responsible for the death of countless, and was making $22,000,000,000.00 EVERY YEAR and TURNING DOWN HEALTH INSURANCE CLAIMS. That quote by Mohler justifies Luigi's action more than the death penalty. Killing Luigi for killing a man who has clearly killed far more than his own self, the authentic self, the soul, which was not able to get through his enormous ego saturated by greed. Do you guys know how many of these guys have more billion dollar salaries??? look it up. If we do not wake up, there will be far more Luigi's because Luigi is not the problem. Our society that allows for individuals to collect BILLIONS of dollars ANNUALLY when our poverty is increasing and our health is decreasing....our own children are killing themselves before even leaving home. Look up that stat. NO MAN OR WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO KILL OR ALLOW THE SUFFERING AND DEATH OF OTHERS DUE TO GREED-DRIVEN NEGLECT WHO THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR EITHER by job or status when they can EASILY pay to reduce all suffering and death. BOTH men are wrong, the CEO far more wrong than the one individual who was actually following that quote in Genesis. Open your eyes open your eyes How do you know He is not here already? And you just haven't open your eyes wide enough yet.
-
Gregory Leon Franklyn
I am against capital punishment on principle, beyond any scriptural instruction. In this specific case, I'm against it because it puts value on one life over and above another. Pam Bondi is decreeing that the lives of powerful and influential people (and law enforcement personnel) is somehow more precious than my life or the lives of people who do not weild such influence. She also decrees that people who commit acts of vandalism against products belonging, specifically, to Elon Musk should suffer more serious consequences than acts of vandalism against my property, the property of some other wealthy and powerful person or the property of a homeless person. As human beings, the value of our lives and property are either equal, or they are not.
-
Rev. BH
I have a problem with tax payers supporting a prisoner for life, especially a murderer. Money better spent on more noble causes. On the other hand "thou shalt not kill" rings true with me. This is my dilemma.
Those of you with simple, from the gut, black and white answers to everything need not apply
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Never found data to back it up but I’ve heard several times it is more expensive to execute someone. Basically lawyer/court fees.
-
-
Matthew Mastrogiovanni
He's a hero, who deserves a statue in his honor.
-
Lionheart
The USA is built on laws. This man took it upon himself to commit the crime of murder. If everyone took it upon themselves to circumvent the law insisting they had the right to do so we would become a nation of anarchy. The man you like to call a hero was in fact a coward who shot a man in the back. Perhaps you think John Wilkes Booth should have a statue built in his honor for shooting President Abraham Lincoln in the back, but I certainly hope not, Sir.
🦁❤️
-
Robert James Ruhnke
Those laws mean nothing when the wealthy are not held to them, kitten butt. Of course you’re a boot gagger.
-
Lionheart
Vigilantism is still not the way we do things here in this country whether you agree with the law or you don’t. We have enough people in this country with that type of criminal mentality burning Tesla’s, and creating mayhem. I think they are called Democrats.
Bless your heart Robert, please get well soon, there will be another election in just under 4 years, so there’s plenty of time for you to try and get used to this administration, just like we had to for 4 years under sleepy Joe, the beach dweller. In the meantime, enjoy 4 years of trying to make America great again as we bring to justice those criminals against our democratic republic.
🦁❤️
🦁❤️
-
James Riggle-Johnson
What does mob mentality have to do with the subject we’re talking about? How did this become about democrats? I have no idea what political party Luigi belongs to and I don’t care. He murdered a man in cold blood and should be punished. Why does everything become a discussion of politics? If we were commenting on an article about water, someone would turn it into politics.
-
-
David Hinckley
What the hell is a boot gagger?
-
Robert James Ruhnke
It’s someone who polishes the boot of their corporate masters with their whole mouth, not just their tongue. Most of the reich wingers on this blog are boot gaggers.
-
Lionheart
I just wish I knew how to post images here to this blog. I have some great pictures of Hillary Clinton, Obama, Kamala Harris, AOC, and Pocahontas Warren, all with one arm outstretched in that typical Nazi salute fashion, but total crickets from CNN. I wonder why that is?🤔
Only 3 years and 7 months left before the next election. I wonder what mental state Biden will be in by then, or any Democrat for that matter. 🤭
🦁♥️
-
Michael Hunt
Those photos are intentionally taken out of context to portray them as giving a Nazi salute but when you watch the full video of these situations for context, you realize that they were not making any salute. Musk however made the exact salute twice.
-
Lionheart
Ohhhhh, yes of course. Why did I know you would have to find some sort of narrative to support your left wing views, but can’t find one for Elon Musk. 🤭
🦁❤️
-
Robert James Ruhnke
Elon musk has been cozying up to Nazis and ultra right in Europe the last half decade.. that’s the narrative you’re ignoring, kitten.
-
Robert James Ruhnke
Because you’re a troll who goes for low hanging fruit, kitten butt. Like Michael said, you’re taking situations out of context to try and mirror. Nice try though.
-
Lionheart
It must really hurt to know your party lost, bless your heart. Never mind, only 3+ years to go to try and have another go. Don’t you just love democracy? 🤭
🦁❤️
-
Robert James Ruhnke
Kitten butt, I’m an independent. Democrats are done. They aren’t my party. It must be so blissful to be apart of the magat cult and blame everything wrong on everything but the obvious problem in the room. Being apart of the most corrupt regime in us history will have its burns. Even if you’re too willfully ignorant to want to notice.
-
Rev. BH
Lionheart says: "Only 3 years and 7 months left before the next election. I wonder what mental state Biden will be in by then, or any Democrat for that matter." 🤭
Biden is not running for anything. What's your point? But Trump aiming for his illegal third term will be a perky 80 years old.
-
-
-
-
-
J Orville Adams
How do you know he committed murder? Yes, he (probably) killed the man, but, was it murder? Murder is defined as killing with malice aforethought. From what I understand, he had a close relative that was denied coverage and ended up dying due to this insurance company's decision to chose profits over life. This sort of act would've made me fired up! So, was it murder or killing in the heat of passion? It is really too early to jump, as you seem to have done, to any conclusions. And, given the surrounding facts, it is not the sort of case where the death penalty is warranted. Especially in federal courts where the death penalty has been reserved for only the VERY WORST, like Timothy McVey or the Boston Marathon bomber. Here, the choice of penalty is politically motivated and driven...all the wrong reasons!
-
ServantOfJudgement
J
It's amazing how the anarchist will tapdance to justify his evil.
It's murder because he walked up to the guy and blasted him.
You really think it's ok for anybody to kill someone because they think they deserve? I actually bet you do. You're an anarchist, of course you do.
If the murderer is an alleged murderer then whatever the victim did was also alleged though he'll get no trial.
The murderer should get a fair trial then publicly hanged.
-
Robert James Ruhnke
You link arm an arm with evil with every comment you make SOJ. Your comments usually drip with it as you attempt to be “witty.”
-
ServantOfJudgement
Really Robert, it's evil to say we shouldn't murder? It's evil to say we ought not walk up to people and blast'em?
That's really odd. So if I said we should go blast someone we think did bad things, that would be good?
How in the world did Jesus know you guys would call good evil and evil good 2000 years removed?
-
-
-
-
-
ServantOfJudgement
Tell me Matthew, what's heroic about a spoiled rich kid throwing a temper tantrum in the form of murder?
Lol, fear not, his mammas money will set him free. Don't ya love money folk? They get idiotic poor people to fight for them while they have grapes and brandy.
Oh gosh, what a hero and what lemmings. Lmfao. (First time in my life I used that acronym).
-
-
Michael Hunt
I don't support the death penalty in general because I believe, even if someone is imprisoned for life, they could still provide positive contributions to society. Take Ed Kemper for example; he committed heinous crimes and was diagnosed in 1973 with antisocial, narcissistic, and schizotypal personality disorders. While imprisoned, he was a prolific narrator of audiobooks for a charity program that prepared material for the visually impaired. He was the coordinator of the prison's program and had personally spent over 5,000 hours narrating books with several hundred completed recordings to his name until he had to stop in 2015 after a stroke.
Even if someone has committed terrible, unforgivable crimes, they still could do good things while imprisoned for life and, while it might be expensive to do so, I think it's the more ethical punishment.
-
Robert James Ruhnke
Good for you on not being blood thirsty like some of these other animals who pretend to be human. I’m one the animals who applauds what Luigi did. I make no excuses, but see it for what it is, vengeance. Yet I see it as a symbol of justice for those of us who’ve been stabbed in the back too many times by these corporations and ultra wealthy.
-
-
Karl Axel Lindström
Capitalism is murder Capitalism is inherently anti democratic and luigi is the kindest warning the rich could have gotten they are poking a sleeping bear bear. it frankly surprices me americans will put up with so much abuse from the rich and the corporations...
feels like most populations would just have started a long brutal bloody revolution and started killing rich ******** non stop until they tired of the blood shed...
the corprorations and the rich are franly boking a sleeping bear i think... and no one will like it when it wakes... uncluding the bear.
As for the death penalty is hugely stupid! people inheretly think they are immortal on some level or they would be to bummed out by mortal dread to function....
its only good as a shock to the system to terrify some population that thinks they are untouchable i.e what luigi did. that is the only utility it has.
as a punishment its stupid! really really stupid! it has little real deterrent effect or at least less then people assume.
rotting in jail for life would be way more effective and frankly probably cheaper too given what a death penalty trial cost to put on.
-
Arthur Wood
the killing was justified :)
-
Lionheart
I’m sure there are people who had similar feelings to yourself when Abraham Lincoln was shot in the back, but it doesn’t make it to be right.
Law and order is critical to civility, otherwise we will all soon have to start watching our backs as we step out of our front door into the public right away, not knowing if there is someone like yourself that agrees to people taking the law into their own hands to shoot someone in the back. What has our nation become if people agree with your comments?
🦁❤️
-
-
Larry Duane Langwell
A modern day David and Golith story. Both playing God over another.
-
John P Maher
??? WHAT ABOUT JAN.6, D J TRUMP IDD, I BELIEVE MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE HE D J TRUMP IDD SHOULD GET THE " DEATH PENALTY " for TREASON, MURDER,34 FELONY counts and COUNTING and SCOTUS FOR AIDING and ABBETING SAME, ALL GUILTY< ACTUALLY CIVIL WAR SOUNDs GOOD TOO ???
-
ServantOfJudgement
Who did trump kill John?
-
-
Carol J VanderMiller
If someone planned to murder someone you loved, how would you feel? If you internalize how it would feel if this happened to your loved one or close friend wouldn't you want either the death penalty or life in prison without parole? The premeditated planning to take someone's life regardless of their reason they should accept the responsibility of their actions with receiving like kind action. Just because the planned murder didn't affect you personally is no reason not to hold that individual accountable for their actions.
-
J Orville Adams
There is one inherent problem with the death penalty in the US. Not a single person on this planet is the same person he was 20 years ago. The average length of time between application of the death penalty and execution is 20 years. So, we are not executing the person that committed the crime, rather we are executing somebody completely different.
In China, when someone is sentenced to death, they are provided an appeal. If it is a "no question" case, after the appeal is heard and the sentence upheld, the prisoner is taken to a field outside the court and shot. It is a total of 15 to 18 months between commission of the act and execution of the penalty. Thus, they are killing the person that committed the crime.
In the US, many that committed heinous crimes were on drugs and had mental problems that get addressed when they are incarcerated. So, by the time they are finally scheduled for execution the person being executed is not the person that committed the crime. This simply isn't right!
Another thing in America is the disproportionate treatment by race. If you are black you are much more likely to be sentenced to death than whites. If you are male you are much more likely than a female.
And finally, the "there has been doubt" cases. Whenever there is even a minute doubt, execution should never be an option. The level for conviction is beyond a reasonable doubt. The level for execution should be beyond any doubt! They must be absolutely guilty, there have been at least 3 people executed in America where there was lingering doubt, but because the states were red states, they had to see blood! That was wrong on all Christian levels!
-
Cyndi Everetts
When I was young and inexperienced I believed in the death penalty. As I’ve gotten older and become much more intimately involved in law enforcement and the “justice system”, I’ve learned differently.
There have been over 200 people exonerated from death row-at least one AFTER he was executed;more than 3,478 exonerated overall.
Look at it this way: we don’t steal from thieves or beat up those charged with assault-why do we kill murderers????
I have to confess, I wasn’t sad about UHC’s CEO. For too long health insurers have put profits above patients. They deny claims for anything they think they can get away with and it sickens anyone with any consciousness.
My empathy lies with the plight of Mr. Mangione and every other American who suffers, struggles to pay for meds, and the elder and disabled who have no advocate to be the voice heard.
Pain will drive the most normal person to their edge.
-
Patti Anne Lisenbee
An Eye for an Eye makes the whole world Blind.
-
Christopher Wayne Patterson Job
The 10 commandments are old testament teachings. When Jesus walked the earth he opened up the heavens to the gentiles and said "love the lord God with all your heart and treat others the way you would have them treat you". We don't stone adulteries anymore so why should we kill someone for making a mistake. Everyone can change. Let those among you without sin cast the first stone.
-
Kathleen Anne OBrien
But there is a Jewish addition to the commandment against killing. It is prohibited EXCEPT IN JUSTIFIED cases I think the CEO Killing hundreds of thousands of people should not be allowed to live as he never swayed from his poath of murdering for money.
-
Robert Gagnon
If you can kill any stranger many dislike, there would be many more murders out there. If the guy he killed was that evil, they can talk about it in hell if it exists.
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Nobody said that you can kill anybody you dislike. Punishment still exists. Being given life imprisonment would be far worse than death for me.
-
-
Colleen McAllister
The Ten Commandments tell us not to kill. The additional rules written out in the books of Moses elaborate on those 10. To pass sentence on one who has broken any of the 10 is simply fulfilling the law. I have no quarrel with the death sentence IF the crime has been proven without all doubt.
-
Thad A Wolf
Yes, the 6th Commandment, which states "Thou shalt not kill," is traditionally interpreted as a prohibition against murder. It applies to all individuals, including murderers, as it underscores the sanctity of life and the moral obligation to respect others' lives. In a religious context, it emphasizes the ethical standards that govern human behavior and the consequences of violating them. Is the Death Penalty Biblical? The death penalty has biblical references, particularly in the Old Testament, where certain crimes are met with death as punishment (e.g., in books like Exodus and Leviticus). However, interpretations of these passages vary widely among religious groups and scholars. Some argue that the New Testament emphasizes mercy and forgiveness, while others maintain that the principles of justice in the Old Testament still hold significance today. Consequently, views on the death penalty's biblical endorsement differ among faith traditions and modern ethical considerations. Is It Unchristian to Take a Life? Taking a life is generally viewed as unchristian, particularly in the context of the teachings of Jesus, who emphasized love, mercy, and forgiveness. The 6th Commandment, "Thou shalt not kill," reflects the sanctity of life, and Christians are called to uphold these values. However, interpretations can vary, especially regarding issues like self-defense or state-sanctioned punishment. Ultimately, many Christians believe that ending a life is contrary to the core tenets of their faith, which promote compassion and the inherent worth of every individual.
-
Steven Ferrell
I fully believe in the death penalty in cases of 1st degree murder and in the killing of a LEO. Both should carry mandatory death sentence.
-
Steven Ferrell
I fully believe in the death penalty in cases of 1st degree murder and in the killing of a LEO. Both should carry mandatory death sentence.
-
Willie L Johnson
I am in full support of the death penalty even in the case of rape or molesting a child, but I would rather see a guilty man go free than an innocent man go to jail. The death penalty does not bring justice to the deceased, they are still dead while the accused continues to live for several years awaiting his punishment. I also believe prison life is to easy for criminals, it should be 12 hours a day of hard labor & minimal living standards & water only to drink. Prison life should be a detterant to crime. Not 3 hots and a air conditioned cot.
-
Sarah Morrison
I guess you don't realize just how many innocent men are in prison, and I can tell you have obviously never been to prison either. Unfortunately, the U.S. has been in dire need of serious justice system reform for a very long time now. The system detains the accused before they are ever convicted- innocent until proven guilty, ha- what a f-ing joke! We have no rights anymore because we have given the courts all of the power they need to become too powerful. They do what they want and whatever it takes to get that conviction because each conviction is nothing but dollar signs $$$. Matter of fact, they are SO greedy and evil that they have made 'crime' fall into pretty much any category if you dont obey their dictator orders. So I have a better idea, how about first of all, start with decriminalize non violent offenses and stop sending people to prison for personal monetary gain. Next, imprison the private corporation executives who have made under the table deals with the judges to keep these prisons full for their use of free labor by the inmates, imprison all of the judges and anyone else involved in this courthouse scheme, and last but not the least, for any self righteous holier than thou mother f-er such as yourself who believes prison should consist of 12 hours of hard labor with only water to drink, I think maybe a day or two of that very thing for you would open your eyes a little and teach some compassion and empathy for others, especially if you didn't even deserve it in the first place. I guarantee you would not think prison is 3 hots with an air conditioned cot anymore after that experience. For those of you who are ignorant and uninformed about what the justice system has become and what actually goes on behind the scenes, it is made up of money hungry judges, prosecutors, lawyers, and law enforcement who takes full on advantage of immunity for themselves, and use the system for personal monetary gain at the expense of disadvantaged low income citizens whom they know will never be able to afford to find a way out so they are guaranteed a conviction that results in a life sentence no matter what the crime. It becomes a life sentence for every one because it comes with a lifetime of failure purposely set in place beforehand by the court. I could continue on for days with an argument for why the system must undergo reform but I won't. I'll stop here and say that love is the only answer so I hope you find it before you end up back here again, learning these same lessons all over again because you didn't learn them this time around...
-
-
Patricia Ann Gross
I once saw a t-shirt that said, "Some people are alive today, only because it is against the law to kill them." All I could do was laugh, because I knew a few of those people.
However, I also know that there are mistakes made and our legal system is not perfect. The "innoscent until proven guilty" not only protects the innoscent, but also allows some offenders to go free due to legal maneuvering or "reasonable doubt." For this reason, and the ultimate penalty of a death sentence being irreversable, I would rather see the person live away from society for the rest of their natural life than for one innoscent person to be executed. Matthew Shepherd's mother begged the courts to give her son's murderers life without parole (which they eventually did) rather than execute them because she wanted them to rot for the rest of their lives in a horrible place remembering why they were there, which she felt was a fate worse than death. In their case, the sentence was extremely long because they were in their twenties or early 30s when they killed Matthew.
Even when you quote "eye for an eye" and other places in The Bible where legislated executions are acceptable (read Leviticus and see all the reasons why someone could be "put to death" including a child talking back to his parents) many of us would have not made it to adulthood if they were codified into today's judicial system. I find it disgusting that Luigi has become some sort of folk hero when the CEO he shot in the back, and was no imminent threat to him, would not have had to face any charges for simply being a capitalist. I'm not saying he was beyond blame for what he did, but this was not by any stretch, an eye for an eye. Putting people's lives at risk for the sake of a buck or two happens every day. Just ask the defense contractors and the manufacturers of WMD. It's called capitalism.
-
Brian Patrick Molloy
We are all children of the same universe . ✝️
-
Jeffery D. Sanders
Very interesting discussion. I have seen points I have never considered. Thank you. I have also heard a bit of hatred towards a particular 'class'. Regarding that I would remind all Americans that we all have the same opportunities. Some see themselves as victims and will likely never enjoy greater fruits and others will utilize the same opportunities and better themselves. Sure there are some who see wealth as power and use that power to control. But all control is rooted in fear. If I am afraid of something I will try and control it. This is why God is in change and not in "control". Additionally, there is the concept of Truth. Scripture says truth sets people free so what then might "bind" people up?? The lies we come to believe unconsciously. As I see it, the true root of all evil is selfishness. Christ, God incarcerate, modeled selflessness choosing to sacrifice His own life even for those who were nailing Him to the cross.
That said, perhaps in this case, we are looking at FEAR vs. CONTROL; TRUTH vs.LIES; SELFISHNESS vs SELFLESSNESS. For which I say no law can fix for these are issues of the heart. Which reminds me, regarding the 10 commandments, isnt there scripture that indicates these 'laws' will no longer be written on cold hard stones but on the hearts of man?? One thing I believe about God is that he is all about the "restoration of all things". The word for "saved" in the biblical Greek is 'sozo'. This word does not mean a ticket to heaven but more like the being made whole, on the inside. That is God's heart for all us kids to be whole, without all the little trauma fractures we seem to carry around and make so many messes with. Jesus came to "save" us... from ourselves, from our junk! Some here say the Health official deserves it. To know that one must have spent time with him to truly know His heart but usually we don't want to do that!! We'd rather believe what we want to believe (often which are lies) and make judgements. Often our information comes from the "news", which is part of the entertainment industry I might add, so how accurate is it really? How leading is it?? (Could the news be responsible for this murder???) Ultimately 2 families have been ripped apart because of all this and many more, made evident in this discourse, have been affected as well. Do we all stop and ck our current beliefs about all of this or do we humble ourselves and ask "Lord, what might I be missing here"? "What are YOU saying in all this"? "What is your desire for this situation"? Or do we even care what the Lord has to say. (By the way, according to Scripture, Truth is a Person...) In the end, I believe in my heart that God is Love and that in either this world or the next His heart will see the redemption of this situation and that gives me hope. I hope this does not offend anyone but if it does, please stop and ask yourself; WHY did that offend me? Do I have an unresolved injury that is still a bit painful and this touched that unhealed 'bruise'? Let Jesus 'sozo' you. Peace.
-
Cyril R. VanKeirsbelk
I disagree with your assertions that we all have the same opportunities in America. The laws have been changed again and again to favor the privileged more and more. Sure, you can succeed, but the bar is a lot higher for some people than others.
-
-
Joseph Grieco
The death penalty is a real tough one for me. It provides an instant solution to a situation, not the actual problem. Add to that, with the exception of some states in the South, it's almost impossible to impose the death penalty, due to jurors or the almost 20 year process of appeals between sentencing and execution. As a result, it costs more to incarcerate someone waiting for execution than it does to sentence them to Life Without Parole. My belief is that is the correct punishment, but with this caveat - the murderer should be forced to have a picture of their victim(s) in the cell as a permanent reminder of what they have done.
-
Shawn F. Orsini
There's not much difference between life in prison and death penalty after he exhausts all his appeals it's still like 25 years but is it fair/ worth the tax payer to pay for his incarceration where he lives in pretty modest conditions in the long run it DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE/ANYBODY THINKS HE ONLY HAS TO ANSWER TO GOD WHEN AND IF HIS TIME COMES .
-
Carol J VanderMiller
If someone planned to murder someone you loved, how would you feel? If you internalize how it would feel if this happened to your loved one or close friend wouldn't you want either the death penalty or life in prison without parole? The premeditated planning to take someone's life regardless of their reason they should accept the responsibility of their actions with receiving like kind action. Just because the planned murder didn't affect you personally is no reason not to hold that individual accountable for their actions.
-
Margaret Grigor
Sentence him to the full penalties of the state law. We are NOT judges. Present the facts and let a jury of peers make a decision.
-
Cameron Rene Ramirez
We are not a civil society if we murder those that are convicted of murder. Please bear in mind also that legal murder administered by corporations for money such as the medical insurance companies should not be killed but should be isolated from our society. Our capitalist society is the worship of mammon and go against the Christ’s teachings.
-
Danielle Elizabeth Ostach
I am not Christian. I was raised Jewish, mix Judiasm and Wicca but I have studied bible (and about couple dozen other religions).
The first and most important thing is translation issue: 6th commandment is thou shall not commit Murder. Many old testament punishments included death sentence met out through lawful authorities and under specific conditions. This is a huge difference between Murder and killing. The reason for this issue the greek of that time which the hebrew was translated into before going to latin to english uses the same word for Murder and killing. This is also why "suffer not a poison to live" became "suffer not a witch to live" and many other issues.
That said, When you execute a murderer, you are sending their soul to be judged (if you aren't buddhist for reincarnation as a lesser life form) and letting God sort him out but you are not giving him time for redemption. You are not giving any sort of worldly punishment for a worldly crime. I admit life in prison means he could get out and kill again (which would be on us that didn't execute him) and the cost of housing, feeding, clothing and so on.
I personally believe that an unrepentant murderer should be removed to never be threat of another murder again. It is a deterent, kill someone, you will die in return, you can see it happened so you know it is not speculation.
-
Justin Kyler Sharp
In the death penalty, if one is established than the next should also be established, “ An eye for an eye “ just as the state deputy murdered that innocent black woman , But if man issues death penalties then make it an eye for an eye including wars, man reaps what they sow “ People don’t listen these days to JESUS, GOD, and the HOLY GOD, but they sure do hear …….. Makes no sense, one is put in this world to see how the world works on both sides good and evil, then hears and listens to the unflesh ( GOD, JESUS EMMANUEL CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT) and then human beings are either jealous, not wanting to listen to the truth so goes about there short lives , or filled with strife, It’s like live the world , learn the world, in all aspects, every body was doomed prior 2019 , food for thoughts…… 🤷♂️🥷
-
Cindi
Thou Shalt NOT kill! To me it means we should not induce the death penalty, but the murderer should serve his/her entire life in prison, without parole. Also, means not to kill a baby, fetus, HUMAN life! Murder of human life is murder.
-
Rev Frankie PG
There are many references in the Bible, Koran and others regarding killings and the killing of another. Many of them will contradict themselves too, in the above mentioned even within themselves. The taking of a life, other from God is wrong and there must be a punishment, hence that person losing their life. Having been in government as long as I have, especially in law enforcement, I can say that the death penalty, when finally carried out is a relief to many, even the person losing their life. On one note, no more tax payers monies have to be spent on the individual and the most dignified part is that they get to go be with their maker and have their ultimate judgement.
-
Rev Morse
It should be reserved for serial killers and the worst of the worst. This includes not taking a life of the unborn.
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You think abortion deserves the death penalty?
-
Let him go, he did nothing wrong. The man he allegedly killed was responsible for far more evil than the killing of one man. The suffering of millions has become so normalized in this country most have become numb to it. Especially reich wingers. The real evils in this country such as corporate greed and the wars it’s caused with the millions being sacrificed in its name have warranted an answer that rhymes with mud. It’s not very Star Trek federation of me but then again I’ve always been a bigger fan of Klingons. To those of you calling for his death. Shame on your apathy to the suffering of millions and those eeking out a living in suffering. Our grandparents and great grandparents wanted us to have a better future, not be buried in misery just so a few can live in luxury. Or have you all forgot that it’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven?
So you advocate this coward of a mutt who didn’t have the courage to look his victim down in the face; who hid like a little rat; who snuck up behind his victim like a parasite and ended his victims life. Yeah, what a “hero” of the people. Bring back the guillotine in a public setting. Put this “poor soul” face up so he sees it coming.
The rat was the man who sentenced people to death by denying health claims for sick people. The useless wealthy who parasite from our societies and prey on people. Denying those claims was no different than stabbing someone in back.
Shooting someone in the back is ok robert?
See how squiggly the thought train is once in the mind of leftists? You'll not trace it from start to finish. They can't even trace it.
Being a judge, jury and executioner makes good sense to a leftist.
Regarding the luxurious life people live and your biblical quotation, anyone that has the luxury of commenting on a blog handily fits Jesus' description of a rich man. Proper impoverished people don't even have running water. We can order anything we want and have it show up the next day, sometimes the same day. Even Kings of old knew nothing of luxury when measured against you or I.
Four thumbs up for Robert James Ruhnke's "Let him go." Interesting, folks. So it depends on the type of killer you set free.
Let's say your uncle runs a 500% interest payday loan outfit targeting the poor. Is it okay to kill him? Okay to let him go?