Most people think of Thanksgiving as an entirely secular holiday – free of both the religious connections held by holidays like Christmas and Easter, and the patriotic ties that come with events like the 4th of July and Veteran’s Day.
It’s just a day for feasting, giving thanks, and spending time with loved ones. Nothing else to see here… right?
Well, not exactly. In fact, Thanksgiving has religious roots that run deep – so deep that they’re easy to miss at first glance.
This is the story of how the pagans held the original Thanksgiving, how the Christian Church eventually coopted the holiday as its own, and how the symbolic evidence survives to this day.
Here’s everything you didn’t know about the (real) history of Thanksgiving.
Feasting With the Old Gods
Before the rise of Christianity in the western world, the holiday calendar looked a lot different than it does today. Across Europe, the pre-Christian pagans held all manner of seasonal celebrations – marking the coming of spring, for example, as well as the summer and winter solstices.
But some of the biggest festivals occurred around harvest time.
This was a time to give thanks to the gods for a bountiful harvest and to celebrate the success of another growing season.
There were many different types of harvest festivals, but the biggest three were Lammas, Mabon, and Samhain – each honoring different gods and celebrating different parts of the harvest and the changing of the seasons.
Christians Capitalize on Pagan Festivals
All holidays adapt and evolve as time passes – it’s only natural.
However, pagan holidays have a remarkable track record of (unwillingly) becoming the basis for Christian celebrations. Again and again throughout history, the Christian Church has coopted pagan festivals for its benefit.
From Christmas to Easter, Christians who sought to supplant the pagan faith with their own mastered the technique of incorporating pagan symbols, traditions, and lore into newly-created Christian holidays – thus making it easier to convert more people to the Church.
As you may have suspected, harvest festivals are no different.
The Rise of Harvest Home
As Christianity overtook the pagan faith as the most popular religion in Europe, the celebrations of the harvest were bound to evolve, too.
In England and Ireland, what emerged was a three-day festival called Harvest Home that featured a great feast to mark the last of the grain getting safely stored for the winter.
This modified tradition incorporated elements of pagan customs, but also had some heavily Christian influences (the festival began with a special church service, for example).
It was this Christianized harvest festival that provided the basis for the American holiday of Thanksgiving.
And yet, there is another twist to the story.
Puritans Shun Pagan Roots
Here’s the thing: the Puritans – the first English settlers in North America – weren’t big on celebrating Harvest Home.
In fact, they rejected this harvest festival entirely (as well as other holidays like Christmas and Easter) due to their pagan roots.
The Puritans recognized that pagan celebrations had been merged with Christian beliefs with the goal of converting people to the faith, and thus they weren’t comfortable participating.
But there were good reasons to celebrate the harvest. Starvation was a real threat for early European settlers in North America, and especially in New England, where the winter climate was fierce and unforgiving.
The First Thanksgiving
The "first Thanksgiving" is widely traced back to Plymouth in 1621, when members of the Wampanoag tribe gathered with the Pilgrims for a harvest feast (which perhaps saved the newcomers from starvation).
We put that in quotes because this certainly wasn't the first harvest festival ever recorded, nor the first to take place in North America.
Further, many don't view the first Thanksgiving as an event worth celebrating at all. For people of Native American ancestry, this event marks the beginning of centuries of turmoil, death, and destruction of their lands at the hands of white settlers.
Native American Harvest Festivals
Like the pagans of Europe, for thousands of years, Native American tribes had been holding harvest celebrations to thank their gods and spirits for the bounty of the season.
Although harvest deities varied from tribe to tribe, many Native American cultures paid homage to "creator gods" that were believed to have helped the Great Spirit complete the earth in its physical form. One such creator god was the Earth Mother, who some tribes believed was the one to bring corn – a harvest staple – to the Native peoples.
One major celebration occurred around the Harvest Moon in September, when tribes would gather for a harvest feast and give thanks to the crops that brought life to the community. Festivities would often involve dancing, drumming circles, and different types of games.
Tradition Spreads Far and Wide
European settlers in North America continued this ancient tradition of giving thanks, creating their own harvest holidays to celebrate the season’s bounty (though any praise in their versions would go to the Christian God).
Different regions and religious denominations across the U.S. would develop unique versions of this seasonal celebration. However, it wasn’t until the late 19th century that the country rallied around a unified national holiday that was officially named “Thanksgiving.”
But even in this modern version of the ancient harvest celebration – many centuries removed from its pre-Christian roots – we can still see prominent symbols from other religions.
Thanksgiving Religious Symbolism
1) Cornucopia
Among the images closely associated with Thanksgiving is the Cornucopia – a horn-shaped basket that is typically depicted overflowing with foods of the fall harvest like squash, corn, and apples.
Far from a Thanksgiving creation, the Cornucopia (also referred to as the “horn of plenty”) actually traces its roots back to ancient Greek mythology.
According to myth, the she-goat Amalthea nursed a baby Zeus in a cave on the island of Crete. One day, Zeus accidentally broke off her horn. As a sign of gratitude, Zeus made sure the horn was always full of whatever goods the owner desired.
The Cornucopia later became a sacred symbol of the harvest in Celtic pagan tradition.
And today, this symbol of plenty lives on as part of the Thanksgiving holiday – in artwork, decorations, and centerpieces.
2) Turkey
It would be hard to find a more ubiquitous symbol of modern Thanksgiving than the turkey, which studies show is eaten by 90% of American households on Thanksgiving.
But did you know its origin at the Thanksgiving dinner table likely stems from Native American tradition?
Many tribes view the turkey as a symbol of fertility and abundance. Turkey is a totem animal, and turkey feathers also carry special importance and are used in certain Native American rituals.
Although experts disagree on whether the "first Thanksgiving" included turkey, that this large bird has become so prominently featured at Thanksgiving tables is no accident.
3) Football
Football on Thanksgiving is also a deeply rooted tradition. From family members gathering for pickup games in the backyard, to Detroit Lions fans gathering around the TV to watch their team lose, football is an integral part of the holiday.
And some experts suggest there's an ancient explanation for that.
In addition to large feasts, Celtic pagan harvest festivals often featured some sort of sporting event or athletic competition.
One such festival was the Irish celebration of Lughnasadh, during which people would compete in events like wrestling and archery.
In that sense, football on Thanksgiving is the continuation of a centuries-old harvest festival tradition.
What are your thoughts? Are there any other examples of pagan or Native American symbolism in Thanksgiving that we may have missed?
59 comments
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Rodney...could you post your comment a few more times please...just for effect
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Colleen McAllister
None of this matters to me; I celebrate my God on that day thanking Him for all the blessings of the past 12 months. If some origins are pagan than so be it. What matters is how I celebrate and who I celebrate.
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Greg Formoe
No supernatural required, natural to have a harvest festival.
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Greg Formoe
No supernatural required, natural to have a harvest festival.
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Robert A Stiff
My family originated in England and as a child in Oklahoma, my grandparents always called Thanksgiving 'Harvest Home'.
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Michael Wolfenbarger
It is the way we look at,how we as people believe in . We as people take godly things, that are for God.we are just people, we come to see the things we did that is not right, so daily we look at are self ,at the end of the day,ask God to help us daily, the problem comes when man thinks he is god.
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Richard Darwin Richards
Amen!!!
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Rodney Knight
We celebrate thanks giving gather family around the table for the dinner watch football on the television only a fool would think thiers is the only tradition to follow each family had their own as the same with foods they served turkey or ham or big beef roast mashed potatoes macaroni and cheese baked yams baked potatoes caked pudding fruit pies coleslaw every family had a dish they ate at Thanksgiving and a way to celebrate it let's us not argue over the what and just the people we love and care about on this holiday
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Rodney, might be a computer glitch, but this got posted 7 times.
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Robert A Stiff
Rodney..does your keyboard have no commas or period keys?
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Richard Darwin Richards
We knew football had Satanic origins, now take a knee to the nfl once and for all!!!
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Daniel Gray
Typical, when you cant just accept a holiday that allows families to gather together to feast and celebrate, you go through and make up lies and myths to try and destroy it. I am Native American and I can assure you that not one thing that was said about Native American history and tradition is factual. All this is, is just another pitiful attempt to try and destroy a holiday. And I bet the same ones whining and crying about this are the same ones who would feel themselves ill used if they actually had to work on this day instead of getting a 4 day weekend.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Shout, shout, let it all out! It sure feels good to sometimes vent, doesn't it Daniel?
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Daniel Gray
No Carl, I am stating fact unlike you who uses every chance he gets to attack a person. But then again just remember and be careful Carl, as the Monastery mods here consider you a troll and have literally stated as much. And just remember what happened to the Troll under the bridge when he got too big for his britches.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Daniel, I don't care if they ever post another one of my comments, and never really have, but it sure has been a lot of fun, and I couldn't be happier in knowing that I got under your skin. If that's the only thing I accomplished on this blog, since you are the number one troll of them all, I couldn't be happier.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Carl you didnt get under my skin. And if you dont care if they post anything else from you then why are you still here?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
My dictionary states that morals are an individual's set of principles.
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Thomas J Kasprik
This is what I love about Festivus. I is a totally made up holiday and it can be celebrated any way to chose No roots, no rituals, no adaptation, not even tinsel
A FESTIVUS FOR THE REST OF US
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David Wright Tillman
I agree with some of the things other people are posting. Some of these things are a bit of a stretch, like the Football one. The reason people in the Northern Hemisphere all around the globe have fall festivals this time of year is because this is when the crops came in. You could just as easily make the argument the holiday coincides with the Israelite Festival of Booths, which also happens around this time of year. And it makes sense the Pilgrims of 17th century Massachusettes might have had a feast to celebrate just being alive after all they endured without thinking "Boy, I sure miss Thor". I'm a atheistic Satanist, and I approve this message.
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Clerance Homister
Here we go. Trying to destroy another American holiday tradition in the name of wokeness. You've already taken Columbus Day, What's next, the Easter bunny, Santa Claus, 4th of July? Give me a break.
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Catherine
@Clerance Homister
Most American holidays are based on lies and illusions that are easier for American to beLIEve than underlying truths.
Research the history of the establishment of each American holiday and you'll learn much.
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Amber Fry
It's funny how many people don't actually look up the history of things they take for granted. Every religion and each of their holidays has very surprising pasts.
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Douglas Person
That I will agree with. The true history of the bible should give any thinking person pause. It is no way to define one's life. Sin, Heaven and Hell are all concepts that are fundamentally used to control people. Human behavior is not sin. There is no God above us getting angry over our less than perfect behavior.
There is a simple concept such as this. The opposite of light is darkness. Light is something, darkness is nothing. Cold is the opposite of warm (or hot). But cold is the lack of heat, not a thing of its own self. God is love. The opposite of love is emptiness, loneliness being apart from love. No God I believe in would ever be angry with His children. All children (us) are imperfect. If God wanted us to be perfect he would have made us so. Instead he gave us the tools to evolve.
We can all chose the path of our lives. We can chose a path closer to God and in so doing live a life where compassion, generosity, empathy to each other are most important. Or we can chose a path far from the light, warmth and belongingness. And here we will live in our own Hell. We turn from the light and chose selfishness. We chose to disregard the pain of others especially the pain we create.
(This is a small part of a sermon I wrote) If I could give advice to any who would listen it would to be give great care to the wonderful Earth and recognize it as God's greatest gift. How we treat it is a reflection of our love for God. How we respond to other's needs defines our closeness to God's love. It is imperative that we not put ourselves in a place of the judgement of others. Judgement does not belong to us. If we have more than enough and we are aware that someone else does not, we must be generous. If we see someone in pain, whether it be physical or emotional, give comfort, Have empathy, even if it means to carry another's pain.
In all the things we do, being good stewards of our home, finding ways to give of ourselves to the betterment of others. Every act of love and kindness brings us closer to God and the closer we are to God the greater joy we will feel in life. In many simple acts that we make into a way of life, we choose God over darkness.
If God's love is like light than chose to be where it shines brightest. Do not walk in darkness but do not judge those who do. Be a guide, be gentle, be kind, be generous, forgive that you may be forgiven, be free of judgement. Let go of anger. Believe, as the words that define ULC, that we are all children of the same universe and thus the same God.
So much harm has been done in God's name and in that we have created suffering. Even today, there are those in positions of great power that create unimaginable pain. It is a burden we all share and we must endeavor to rise above.
No matter who you are, where you are, or what you have done in your life - you are my brothers and sisters as you each other's. I choose love, I choose to seek the light, I choose to bring others to the light. I choose to believe that we are all one, all of use God's children, all of us responsible for this world - this greatest gift of God. I choose to believe that only by uniting all of humanity in an understanding of God's true nature, well we find true world peace and find an end to human suffering.
If there is one great sin - than its name is greed. Greed for power, greed for wealth. Let us all choose love, God's love, for it is all that He is.
God created not just the Earth but all that we see in this Universe. For God placed his finger upon a single point and gave a part of his perfect self that it would expand and become all that we see. We are each made not in his image but of the very essence of God's self. (I use the male pronoun, but God is neither male nor female).
(This is all what I remember of a sermon I gave in a park in Los Angles 55 years ago)
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Lionheart
Thank you for telling us what you believe, even though there is no demonstrable evidence to prove anything of what you believe. Every religion on earth has no choice but to believe using faith, because that’s all every religion has. Your religion is no different to any of the others, but thank you for your thoughts.
🦁❤️
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Pastor Jim
For me Thanksgiving is a holiday I observe to remind me of my gift of life, the opportunity to pursue my goals, express my spirituality, and reconcile the many facets and chapters of my 70 years. I don't mean to come across as if I'm virtue signaling... my purpose is simply to offset the negativity espoused by those above who know no better.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
which means you're virtue signaling
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Rod Gesner
Wampanoag may have attempted generosity; However the Pilgrims thanksgiving story is Typical white mans Lies... They slaughtered a whole tribal Village stealing the foods gathered there.. That is the ritual the xstains repeated from one coast to the other; Murdering Rapeing and Pillaging the original inhabitants killing with disease, starvation and horrific torture the better part of 100million from the original tribal cultures. To truly honour this holiday we should be giving lands crops and meats to all the remaining tribes untill they At LEAST GET THEIR ORIGINAL TREATY LANDS AND SOVERIEGN RIGHTS RETURNED. AS WELL AS GIVING THEM STEWARDSHIP CONTROL OF ALL FEDERAL AND STATE PARKS AND FORESTS, DNR LANDS. COASTAL AND INLAND FISHERIES.. THAT WOULDN'T BEGIN TO COMPENSATE THEM FOR ALL THE CRIMES AGAINST THEM AND LIES TOLD; BUT IT'S THE BEST WE COULD DO WITHOUT BECOMING UNWELCOME REFUGEES IN AN ALREADY REFUGEE OVERTAXED EUROPE.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Rod but you are a liar. The Pilgrams never slaughtered the whole village as you try and claim and even Brian Weeden, who is the tribal leader; will call you out on this lie. I know your hatred of anything that might smack of religion but to out and out lie through your teeth is below pathetic. Now that it has been proved you lied about this then tells is Rod, why would anyone ever believe anything you say again?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Daniel, as far as I can tell the only thing anyone around here ever believes that you say are the laws you transcribe from law books, but don't think highly of your personal opinions. Let's see how many votes this one gets.
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William Joseph Moczan
$&@? YOU
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Robert A Stiff
Rodney....does your keyboard not have a comma or period key?
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Catherine
Harry Hubbard's research into Thanksgiving history can be found on YouTube. There is also this article by : 1637 Pequot massacre: The REAL Story of the Annual U.S. Thanksgiving
"In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared “A Day Of Thanksgiving” because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.
Cheered by their “victory”, the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.
Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of “thanksgiving” to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts — where it remained on display for 24 years."
While there is no harm in setting aside a day to be especially grateful for what we have, how history was rewritten to inaccurately portray real events also bears remembering. Perhaps Thanksgiving Day might be a reminder that we can choose to live so we do not feel such extreme shame that telling lies as history becomes necessary to obscure truths.
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Audie Brunson
The problem is because of the murder and savage treatment by their ancestors they benefit at the expense of countless others. The mindset has allowed them to dismiss the horrors of their past and still continue to lie about the history of the people they have and continue to oppress..
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Thomas P. Davis
I think i agree with most of what you are saying. God above doesn't get angry with us, but just as earthly parents, I am sure He weeps a lot just as Jesus wept for Jerusalem. Heaven and hell are real, and some do use them to scare people. The hell that man teaches is totally different than the one that God describes. God does want us to be perfect, and He could make us perfect, but then we would not have free will and just be robots. So, you are correct, it is all about choosing this day whom you will serve. We will never be able to make those changes, but has Jesus' example, If we all allow God by faith into our lives, He will, and He can. Jesus said He did not come to condemn the world, neither should we. With what measure we judge others will be how we are judged. God bless
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Lionheart
Interesting 🤔. Did you read all this from somewhere?
Just to let you know, the Harry Potter books are also fiction, just in case you are thinking differently.
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Since after my last comment to Daniel Gray our good ULC brothers and sisters told me to avoid loud and aggressive persons, for they are vexations to the soul, I'll take a break now, and wait for another good article, but occasionally check to see how many votes that comment receives.
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Paul Phillip Miller
not surprised
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Monika Rose N
Additional Symbolism, corn/maize, an important crop to indigenous people. In some tribes Corn itself was seen as a spirit and often it played a role in ceremonies. Also the ritual of prayer and expressing gratitude. For many non-religious families this is just about the only day they might have prayer.
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Alyce Kaufman
The celebration of Thanksgiving was derived directly from the Jewish autumnal holiday of Succoth. It is one of the three harvest festivals mandated in the Chumash ( Five Books of Moses) which make up the Torah, the Hebrew bible. “ The Three Pilgrimage Festivals, in Hebrew Shalosh Regalim (שלוש רגלים), are three major festivals in Judaism—Pesach (Passover), Shavuot (Weeks or Pentecost), and Sukkot (Tabernacles, Tents or Booths)—when all ancient Israelites who were able would make a pilgrimage to the Temple in Jerusalem, as commanded by the Torah.”
The Pilgrims were well aware of this and requested a day of Thanksgiving for being brought to the “New Jerusalem “!
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Herb Kopper
does anyone have a nice, somewhat short thanksgiving blessing for a group of family and friends? I have been workinbg on a quick one, just wondered.
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Frederick Arnold Kendall
Just have to make a comment on this whole Thanksgiving thing. Why is it that Christians have to insist that if you don't follow their beliefs you are wrong and/or foolish? I stop having anything in common with them or their religion when they make the claim that I must accept the idiotic idea of the Great Spirit says that you must believe in the whole Paganistic theory that god has to be a trilogy. Completely insane!!! A plurality of deities is in Fact pagan. There is no father/son/holy ghost. The creator wants only that you believe in IT ( not male and not female), we need to live in a way that is holy, and by our actions and life we either show ourselves to be good, decent people or not. To make the claim that you must believe in the bible being the absolute word of god and accept the myth of reincarnation or be dammed to the christian hell is laughable. No book anywhere has been rewriten, altered, added to and deleted from more than the pagan, sick, violent and disgusting one their religion is based on. From the very beginning it has been altered to fit the requirements of the twisted individuals who were in charge of it. If they find a section of it doesn't fit in with the current agenda they just change it. A glaring example is the "slave bible " kept in a museum and hidden from the general public view. This was the version used by the missionaries in the American south and west. All mention of the idea of equally and free will was removed so the Native American people and the slave population could be taught to pray to the pagan trilogy and not be encouraged to believe that they were in fact as good as the white Europeans who were stealing the native land, forcing the people to follow the path of a pagan trilogy, and accept the ignorance that if we called our deity by a name the Christians didn't know or like or understand then we were all dammed. HORSE ****!!! I follow the path of the great spirit, live as a a servant of the creator and refuse to accept the idea that I need a "savior " . Even thier own book ,in genesis, says " thou shall have NO OTHER god before me" .I take that to mean NO OTHER. This father, son,holy ghost stuff makes it PAGAN !!! The oral traditions of the indigenous people all over the world are much more valid. I wish all people everywhere peace and happiness and absolutely reject the idea that a religion that is responsible for the deaths of millions of people who believed in something not christian can have any right to act the way they do. We are bombarded with the news of people who actually claim to be cousins constantly murdering each other. If christians, Hebrews, and moslems are all the decendants of Abraham they are in fact cousins. And what kind of sick belief system can pray to a deity that demands a blood sacrifice anyway??? That which gave us the gift of life and said "thou shall not kill "would absolutely never allow such a sick twisted thought. To take life in sacrifice to the giver of life is an ABOMINATION. Hey people wake up. Sacrifice is giving of yourself to honor the creator. Certainly not destroying the greatest of all gifts. Instead of trying to force people to believe in something which is an absolute ABOMINATION, why not do all you can to help your neighbors, no matter whether we pray the way you do or not!!!
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Billy Whalin
I would like to comment about God and Jesus in our country. WW2 shows how much we had God in our country more then today. We had nothing not even an Army after WW1. God called upon us to defeat the evils trying to ruin God's world. There was no way in this country state of being that we raised up and defeated the evil without God being with us. He was in our schools our government our citizens. We used Thanksgiven to thank God and Thank for our freedom. Do we favor in God's eyes today? Maybe not as much because we have removed God in every place he once was. I think it's going to take a war to get that faith back almost losing but I do not think God will allow us to be defeated but be humbled again. He has a use for us in the coming of christ. God bless Merry Christmas to all in Jesus name amen.
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John Robert Milner
On October 3, 1863, expressing gratitude for a pivotal Union Army victory at Gettysburg, President Abraham Lincoln announces that the nation will celebrate an official Thanksgiving holiday on November 26, 1863.
The speech, which was actually written by Secretary of State William Seward, declared that the fourth Thursday of every November thereafter would be considered an official U.S. holiday of Thanksgiving. This announcement harkened back to when George Washington was in his first term as the first president in 1789 and the young American nation had only a few years earlier emerged from the American Revolution. At that time, George Washington called for an official celebratory “day of public thanksgiving and prayer.” While Congress overwhelmingly agreed to Washington’s suggestion, the holiday did not yet become an annual event.
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Alexander Arends
So this is what someone sent me today: "Let us be a source of hope for those in need, and contentment for those who are lonely. Let us give gratitude for our opportunity to serve. Let the feelings of love, kindness, and a well directed, yet gentle spirit always be reflected in our actions." Thanksgiving means a lot to me
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Amber Fry
I had a pretty secular upbringing. Yes, all holidays have a history but often morph into something else with other meanings. For my family the span of time between October with the celebration of the final major harvest of the year, through the end of December were meant to get family and friends together to celebrate life, reconnecting, appreciating each other and making it through another year. Some years it was much needed as life can get downright dirty and cruel at times.
Lots of false, dis and misinformation here. If Thanksgiving has a Christian religious origin, why are there so few countries in Europe that know or even celebrate Thanksgiving.
What do Native Americans have to be thankful for on Thanksgiving? The white Europeans who fed them stole their land, took their food, killed off many of them, stole their children and enslaved many forcing them to be Christians or die.
American’s have the Native American’s to thank for the American football we have today. Fact check and you will find Pop Warner was the football coach for the Native Americas at the Carlisle Indian Industrial School.
Sad this article doesn’t mention any of this.
Most countries are godless and don't celebrate any holidays such as this. The US believed in God at one time and was a great country for that reason.
Actually they are many places that have a harvest festival and all predate the christian religion. Countries are not godless. They just don't have the same god that you do. In fact in 1797 the Treaty of Tripoli, declares that “the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion. This is why there is a separation of church and state.
We were once a great country because people cared about each other. It is the evil taint of power and money that has turned many a heart. Also just because a person doesn't "follow a god" does not mean that they are incapable of caring or having morals. If that were true people predating Christianity would have never lasted long enough for Christianity to appear.
They (Christians) pulled their dogma from another older religion (Judaism). God didn't just suddenly appear and create the Christian religion. There has always been a belief in a greater power. The only difference being in what these powers were named. Even Christians have multiple names for god. (https://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/The%20Many%20Names%20of%20God.htm).
Religion and morals are separate things. Morals are "rules" put in place that enable people to live cooperatively in a group. Morals are what this country is missing not religion.
@Amy Minckler Well said, but I will differ with you about one point you stated. "We were once a great country because people cared about each other." We didn't care about the Native peoples, "we" killed many, stole their land and enslaved many forcing them to be Christians. Then "we" purchased slaves at auctions and many were treated poorly killing many when productivity decreased.
If you remember your American history review Manifest Destiny. The famous painting "American Progress" shows just how much those early White European Christian illegal immigrants murdered, rapped, stole and pillaged what was to become the United States in the name of God. Look at the mess they left us with to clean-up.
Hi, being of Native descent, this holiday (and Columbus day) have always been sore points for me. I was doing my best to add to the discussion without devolving into a secondary topic :). Religion and politics are horrid bedfellows and are the horror story version of psychologically conjoined twins. I try my hardest to stay on topic as I know I am one to get very high up on my soapbox when it comes to my heritage.
I do not think the people of today are responsible for their ancestors actions. I do not take offense easily. But when someone goes off about lazy, casino rich Natives who need to get off their bums and join the United States like the good little conquered savages they are, I do take offense.
*Nods and steps off her soapbox" :D
@Amy Minckler While people today may not be responsible legally for what their assisters did. But what the native peoples have today is direct result of Manifest Destiny. That God gave white European illegal immigrants America to rape, steal, pillage, enslave and murder the native peoples so the whites could proper.
You should take offense about the “Indian Casinos”. Do you know how they came to be? The man who kidnapped Frank Sinatra jr. is the mastermind behind the casinos and what portion the few Native tribes receive. Sadly where I like the families of the native peoples receive so much money they have a difficult time spending all of it. Kids getting $125k cars on their 16th birthday, lots of drugs/alcohol and not having to work for it is why some people may think the natives are lazy. The reality is they don’t have to get off their bums and they can be lazy not having to do anything and receive a nice cut from the casinos. This of course is NOT true of all native peoples. As a result of Manifest Destiny many are still living in homes with no electricity, no running water, no waste water/sewage treatment, very poor medical care, and many times do not have enough food. You need to get on your soap box and share your thoughts.
@Douglas Robert Spindler
How many reservations have you visited?
Do you have any comprehension at all about how reservations function? If you've been to even one, did you notice the American flag flying to maintain 'superiority' over indigenous 'sovereignty'?
You commented without real knowledge. Why bother when you must know you don't know because you haven't bothered to learn more?
You are correct! The Jews are God's chosen people and all religions have stolen from them .
@Richard Darwin Richards Who told you "Most countries are godless and don't celebrate any holidays"? I can't name on country that doesn't celebrate many holidays.
What made America Great were all of the White European illegal aliens who came to the Americas and stole, murdered, rapped, pillaged, brought slaves and and enslaved the Native peoples in the name of God branding it as Manifest Destiny.
I would encourage you to fact check ALL of my claims as you are currently have a believing in a false God and beliefs.
Let ANY group of people step forward that hasn't lied, raped , murdered and stolen. I'm waiting.....
@Richard Darwin Richards Christians would be at the front of the line. I have found they create alternate forms of the truth, and then believe in what they made-up.
Once again we have people on here talking about how the “white” man did this and did that completely ignoring that everything they claim white men did was done and still is being done to this very day by every other race and religion on the planet yet only white men are held to the standards of the sanctimonious virtue signaler’s while Arabs continue the slave trade to this day and American Indians butchered plenty of innocent white settlers and their own kind as well! I am just tired of every other race that has and still does commit atrocities being given a pass while the white Europeans history is picked through with a fine tooth comb looking for things to accuse and point fingers at thus vilifying an entire race of people as evil and racist for crimes every race has and does commit with impunity! You can not judge what people did hundreds of years ago or thousands of years ago by looking at it from a 2023 lens, everything you want to claim as horrific was normal in their time but you all want to feel virtuous by pointing out others flaws when you couldn’t survive one day in their world!
@Father Flanagan Don’t you think the white Europeans who in the name of God and Manifest Destiny and the government program to eliminate Native Americans not more than 5 generations ago has a lasting effect on the Native Americans today?