Very soon, the Supreme Court of the United States will make decisions about several landmark cases concerning same-sex marriage. Should the justices decide that denying same-sex couples the right to marry is unconstitutional, it would create a fast track for marriage equality to become a reality in every state in the union. But maybe it's time to stop thinking about marriage equality as just an internal, domestic policy issue in the United States and to start thinking of it as a long-term legacy policy for the U.S. on the world stage.
Marriage Equality Overseas
Marriage equality is quickly becoming the status quo in the Western world. Recently, we saw Ireland legalize same-sex marriage by popular referendum. It wasn't an especially close race, either. Supporters garnered 62 percent of the vote. In our highly polarized political era, that counts as a landslide. Even in much more conservative Northern Ireland, the tide seems to be turning in the same way it has in the United States. While same-sex marriage is still illegal in Northern Ireland, the nation's highest court recently ruled that religious freedom doesn't exempt businesses from anti-discrimination laws.
It's not just happening in Ireland, either. The parliament of Greenland recently unanimously voted to legalize same-sex marriage. Similarly, the sovereign tribe of the Oneida People in Wisconsin also voted for marriage equality and changed the language of their marriage laws to reflect that. The Australian Labor Party has also created legislation to legalize same-sex marriage in their country.
Next Steps Toward Equality
As demonstrated by this wave of marriage equality events throughout the world, the question of the U.S.'s take on the subject can't help but be part of this chorus of rising voices. In today's world, the United States will have to decide whether it has more in common with the laws of ally nations like the U.K., or oppressive nations like Vladimir Putin's Russia. In a democratic nation like ours, the will of the people has already shifted to the support of marriage equality. The question now is whether those who sit in our highest court recognize that shift.
Is legalizing same-sex marriage something the United States needs to do in order to fit into this moment in history? Would marriage equality violate the religious freedoms of American people? Let us know what you think the Supreme Court justices should decide and why.
227 comments
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Tom
This shift is long overdue in the United States. I am hopeful and confident that the Supreme Court will come to its senses on this issue and vote for equality. The word equality, is now, and always has been a difficult one for the United States. Sadly, we do not have a very good track record on the subject of equal rights. We are, in so many ways, still fighting for equality for people of a different color. The War Between the States ended 150 years ago, yet the battles are still being fought. Voting rights, employment opportunities and many other issues are still race based. Immigration is still a hot button largely because of the fear of people who are different, even though our ancestors were quite different when they arrived. The Equal Rights Amendment, granting full equality to women, still has not been ratified and added to our constitution. It is amazing that we even have women in politics and a women candidate for the highest office in the land with that sort of record.
Equality is very illusive and not easily achieved in this good land we call the United States. Even if the Supreme Court rules for Marriage equality, it will be years before all the other laws on the books are repealed that discriminate against the LGBTQ community. I live in a state, Florida, where you can be fired for being gay and where you can be denied a residence because you are gay. What good is marriage if you cannot get a job or a place to live? Attitudes will not quickly change just because of a court ruling.
Most of us on this blog are clergy persons representing a wide variety of faiths. I would hasten to remind us all that the basic lesson of each and every religious movement since the beginning of recorded history to to "love one another". I would say that putting these words into action is long overdue. We, as clergy, need to be ever mindful of that lesson and preach it daily. If we can change one person, and they can change one more...just imagine, just imagine.
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Rjr
Love one another yes but except sin for what it is NO! We love the homosexuals, which they are, but we never accept the sin, we pray God will open their eyes and heart but NO pastor or clergy person should ever accept sin using love as their motive. God loves the sinner but hates the sin and there is no getting around that. Stop mistaking love for acceptance of sin.
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Steve Bubbenmoyer
Homosexuality is not a sin and if you're referring to the Bible, it never says it is. The Old Testament is rife with mythology and misinterpretation from non-literal translations. The most important commandment is to love God, and your NEIGHBOR as yourself. God didn't leave any room for debate. Jesus Christ pointed these out as the greatest commandments. What about that don't you understand? It is beyond ignorant to think otherwise. And in case you haven't heard, our constitution is based on legalities, not religion. It is unconstitutional to discriminate against the LGBT community for any reason. Religious fanatics can keep their idiocy as the world marches on toward truth, tolerance, and the true teachings of Christ.
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Rjr
YES homosexuality is a sin according to the Old and New Testament and you can ignore truth all you want God is a just God and call it mythology and misinterpretatons all you want but those who believe the Bible is full of myths and misinterpratations you have the right to be WRONG!
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Dr Griffith
Gosh Ray, what an open mind you have. It is a good thing you are not the new Christ or anyone different would be stoned. It is time to open your mind to others different than you and be accepting of them. I think you need to read the Gospels again instead of listening to there tell you what they say.
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Nicholas
I don't know why you are filled with hate for others that just to have the same rights as everyone else. You echo the same hate as racist from the 50's and 60's. just instead of hating color you now hate love
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Susan B Anthony
Listen RAY, you point out the verse where "god" specifically said homosexuality is a sin. And when you're done, check out Genesis chapter 19. I may be atheist but i am a HELL of a good arguer and I know i am not wrong. And when your done with that, check out the old testament where it SPECIFICALLY says how things like getting your ears pierced are sins as well
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God
I really wish you people would stop putting words in My mouth, and blaming Me for things written thousands of years ago by other humans. If I was really concerned with who you sleep with, don't you think I would have published a book with My name under "author", and given it to every culture? That if I was going to burn you for eternity for loving someone of the same gender, that would take the time to stop by for a chat? Hello people, omnipresence here!
Come to think of it, I did try publishing a manual once. I gave you people 10 simple instructions that I figured even you couldn't mess up, and I've been watching how you've managed to mess them up ever since! Hell, I even wrote them down for you the first time, on ROCK mind you, and you still managed to break them almost immediately!
I thought this had been settled when I sent Junior down to talk with you, but I guess not. So listen up. Outside of the big 10, the only requirements I've laid down is that you need to be considerate of your fellows, repent if you broke one of my prime directives and accept Junior as your savior. As long as you keep those 13 EXTREMELY SIMPLE commands straight then we're good.
Lets be clear - I'm not the bedroom, couch, kitchen, dungeon, beach or (insert wherever else you crazy kids like copulate) police. Its honestly beneath me, and it should be beneath you too. That Lennon guy had it right - All you need is love.
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Karen K.
Amen Ray
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Rev. John D. Partin
Ray, our being "wrong", as you say, isn't proved by just your or anyone else's saying that we are "wrong" and we just have to agree and say "Oh, well, Ray and these other people say that we are wrong and so I guess that it must be true, huh?". Where is your proof that we are wrong? Not just quoting the Bible because that is circular "reasoning" and the Bible can't be used to verify itself. Where is your proof that homosexuality is a sin just because of some Bible verses, which is circular "reasoning" again? Where is your actual and independent evidence of that?
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Rev. Elizabeth S. Arsenault
Steve Bubbenmoyer - you are wrong in saying that the bible does not say anything about homosexuality. Yes, it does say it in the Old Testament but those laws no longer apply when Jesus died for our sins. In the new testament it says the following:
26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved. - Romans 1:26-27 (NLT)
8 We know that the law is good when used correctly. 9 For the law was not intended for people who do what is right. It is for people who are lawless and rebellious, who are ungodly and sinful, who consider nothing sacred and defile what is holy, who kill their father or mother or commit other murders. 10 The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching 11 that comes from the glorious Good News entrusted to me by our blessed God. – 1Timothy 1:8-11 (NLT)
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. – 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NLT)
As you can see it is mentioned in 3 books. It is a sin. Yes our laws are not religious laws. I am not a religion, I am a Christian. I love all people no matter their beliefs. But I know it is a sin to be with the same sex. I do not care what they want to do. I have several family members that are homosexual or bisexual but I will not perform their marriage. It may be ok by man's law but it is not ok by God. That is my choice, my belief and I stand by that. If someone wants to perform a same sex marriage well then they have to live with that. I do what Jesus would do and He would not condone a same sex marriage. He would pray to His Father to save these sinners. That is what I do. I pray to God, through Jesus to lead them in the right path, whatever God wants them to do. It is Satan's world and we have freedom to do what we want. I choose God's way, not man's or Satan's. God Bless
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Roman
Hello Elizabeth, well their are many things that are a sin. Eating pork, shrimp, and anything dubbed unclean. Their are also rules in the Bible that say (Look at the complete book of Leviticus) that say you must "SELL" your daughter and she must fetch a fair price. It also says that "Slavery" is ok for as long as that "HUMAN BEING" is from a neighboring country. So are you saying we should make it illegal to eat pork chops, tear up the Emancipation Proclamation and when girls 18, put them up on EBAY so they may be auctioned off? People need to remember that "MAN" not God wrote the Bible. He GAVE MAN free will. This allowed man to be able to "Lie". You also must remember that the King James version of the Bible was the 14th revision. The other versions were much smaller. If you read the "Sermon on the Mound" and read what Jesus said his father "GOD" wanted, you will not see ANY HATE TOWARDS ANYONE. The word of God was manipulated by man to get what they needed from people. Do you think that if you had a daughter who was married, and she forgot to tell him that she was not a virgin on their wedding night that she should be pelted and murdered by being stoned to death? Hey, it's in the Bible. If you are going to be someone who is a "Word-for-Word Bible Believing Christian" ALL GODS LAWS MUST BE FOLLOWED.
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Mark
So, Exodus 21:7 sanctions selling your daughter into slavery, but she will not go free as male slaves do. Does this mean its okay to sell my daughter into slavery? Do you accept this as God's word or man's law?
Exodus 35:2 states that "for six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death." So should we take this so literal to believe its okay to kill anyone who works on the sabbath? While I believe the point is that we are to devote time to worship, meditate and pray for the development of spirituality and our connection to God, I certainly don't believe God condones murdering people when they have to work on the Sabbath.
Leviticus 25:44 states "Your male and female slaves are to be from the nations around you; you may purchase male and female slaves." So does that mean it is okay to buy slaves from Canada and Mexico? Does God truly condone slavery? Or is it possible that man came up with this concept to justify the owning of slaves/maidservants?
Leviticus 19:27 also states that "'You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard." So does that make it a sin to get my hair cut or to even shave my face?
Leviticus 24:14 allows us to "Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him." Does that mean you approve of the stoning to death of a family member who uses the Lord's name in vain. I personally cringe when I hear God's name used in vain, but I think Jesus would encourage me to express my anger in a manner that allows me learn and grow spiritually.
Truth is, I could on and on with Bible verses that seem to condemn every day actions with such violence and condemnation, it hardly seems that these were God's words but laws set forth by men who believe they know God better than others. I find that quite arrogant.
Jesus, at least according to the gnostic gospels taught that God was within us and could be found in our own hearts. Since this frightened the church leaders because it would diminish their power and thus their 'authority' over others, they condemned these teachings. I find it interesting how some persons take quotes from the Bible to support their personal argument but ignore those that blatantly don't agree.
In the end, I don't really know what Jesus would do or say to me about being gay. I do know that being gay is as much an integral part of who a person is as much as a man or woman is 'straight'. God doesn't make mistakes. Consider this, is it a sin to be born a hermaphrodite? If life/God sometimes creates person with both genitalia, Isn't it possible that a person is born gay?
Let me finish with this...It is very possible for a child born with both sex organs to grow up to have a healthy view of sexuality and successful relationships. From early on, the child should be taught how valuable, loved and accepted he is by his family and also by God. He or she is not a victim of divine judgment, but God has a plan for each one of us that will bring Him glory, as we can learn from a man who was healed by Jesus Christ:
“'Teacher,' his disciples asked him, 'why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?' 'It was not because of his sins or his parents' sins,' Jesus answered. 'He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him'” (John 9:2-3).
Since a gay expresses love in certain circumstances quite differently and often can relate to the emotions and physical being of both sexes, isn't it just possible that a person is born gay so that the power/love of God could be expressed by him/her?
Its up to those who truly believe in Christ, not to change what God has made into what we believe he or she should be, but to teach others how to express the power and love of God in their own manner so that others too may see the power and glory of God and Jesus' love for all of us.
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Jim
Actually, you're choosing Paul's way. God himself only wrote down 10 instructions and not one mentioned same sex relations. It isn't mentioned in any of the quotes by Jesus either, making it the opinion of the authors, not God or His son.
If you're going to take those opinions as gospel, then I recommend you read 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 as well.
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Rev. Elizabeth S. Arsenault
@AKAJim - I find your comment amusing. It does show where your mind is referring to women. Have a blessed day.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Elizabeth, do you think that it is possible that Paul and other Bible writers put some of their personal prejudices and ideas into their writings, such as these verses that you have quoted here? If not, what is your proof that they didn't do so? The Holy Spirit certainly wouldn't have prevented them from doing so because He doesn't ever prevent anyone from doing or saying anything wrong, since that would take away free will. So, He also wouldn't stop people from writing their own prejudices and wrong things in the Bible, either, anymore than anywhere else. How do you know that these anti-gay verses in the Bible weren't just put into God's mouth by Bible writers, in order to make Him "agree" with them, and sanction and "justify" their bigotry, so that they could impose their views on other people? Should we, therefore, follow these bigoted teachings, dressed up as "God's words", and treat them the same as clearly Godly teaching to love our neighbors as ourselves and do unto others as we would have others do unto us and "Inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me" (Matthew 25:40)? Homosexuality is not a sin, except according to homophobic Bible writers and homophobes out in the world. Gay people deserve the right to be married, the same as straight people, and all other rights and freedoms enjoyed by all other Americans and human rights enjoyed in the rest of the world!
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kg
Oh Steve, I loved your comment. I keep telling people this but they say it's in the Bible. No, it's not. I'm glad to see someone agrees. The Bible has been rewritten by so many kings of old to control their people. I'm sure if the LGBT community read your comment you would be their hero. God Bless you.
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Melissa
Thank you for posting this. I only wish more people believed this and recognized this as the truth of the teachings of the bible.
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Doug Prideaux
Thank you Steve, for saying it all; not that your words, or any words for that matter, will assist Ray Rupertus in seeing beyond himself…which to me, is among the greatest of sins.
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Rev. Elizabeth S. Arsenault
Roman - Why do you say I hate? I said I have family that are homosexual and bisesual and I love them dearly. They know that I believe that the same sex marriage is immoral. I never said anything about loving each other is being a sin. Sexual immorality is a sin. I do not hate anyone. We all have our beliefs and the good Lord gave us the right to choose the way we want to live. As long as you love God and accept Jesus as your Savior you are saved. So all this is mute when it comes to God. I do not agree with same sex marriage and that is my right. It does not mean I hate anyone. It means I feel it is wrong. That's all so please don't put words out as if I spoke them when I did not. You are entitled to how you feel as well.
Also, if you know your Bible you know that the God sent the Holy Spirit upon the men who originally wrote the bible. He gave the the knowledge. God gave us freedom and scholars have taken that liberty and have done many changes. It still is a good book. It still teaches right from wrong and to spread love. It says nothing about allowing same sex marriages. Again, my opinion but do not say I hate. If you knew me you would know better.
God bless you and yours and thank you for communicating with me.
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Pastor Susie Timlick
Hmmnnn ..Let me see...Oh I remember..." Judge not LEST ye be JUDGED "..I believe I read that some where...
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AbbyJo Ovitsky
smile, thanks
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Pastor Roger L. Schwanke
Amen Pastor Timlick. We will alll be judged when we stand before the Lord jesus Christ on judgement day
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Susan
I believe the greatest teachings were very simple JUDGE NOT ... I doubt God pulls back the covers to see who is love whom. Judgment and hate and the idea that we get to define sin is what causes all the suffering in this world.
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Dr Griffith
Susan, you are so correct. I think that Christianity has become a religion of hate and exclusion instead of love and inclusion. All the great religious leaders are rolling in their graves. Perhaps the second coming ha already happened and the majority of Christians missed it because of their hate and persecuted Christ because of his love and acceptance of those different from him.
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AbbyJo Ovitsky
Amen, Sister Susan, "the idea that we get to define sin is what causes all the suffering in the world."
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Dr Griffith
If you worried more about your imperfections and less about others you might become a better person. Why is it that anyone who has different beliefs than you has to follow your, yet when your beliefs are attacked it is wrong? It ins a sad time for the USA which was founded on freedom of (from) religion is ignoring that and becoming a Christian nation where no other religion is tolerated.
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Bob
I hope you don't mind my jumping in on your comment Dave. I just couldn't resist any longer. Something almost all of you have brought into this discussion that all of the social media and courts seem to want to forget is the religious aspect of the situation. Although it is pointed our that our country was founded with Christian blessings, our leaders were denied the royal/divine status of kings of old. There was a division of power. Courts do not have the power to legislate religious belief.
One of the biggest problems we seem to be having is we forget that every time someone translates an item, there is a chance that something will be lost in the translation. Example, investigate the meaning of the Greek word Arsenokoite. I am not going to define it for you. For those that are interested,see what can arise.
There is one other point to consider. There are many different religions in the world. Most of the arguements against LGBT ways come from the Christian segment.Their teachings come from men who were moved "by the spirit" when they wrote their book. That book has been translated many times. My most commom teaching is that all the religions of the world are like spokes of a wheel. The hub is our goal. It is "God", "The Great Creator", or any other name by any other religion. All religions are based on faith. What gives any of us the absolute right to say we are the supreme answer?
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Karen K.
This is what a Christian is. A Christian believes the bible and its teachings. It doesn't believe in man made politics or rules and regulations such as hold your hands this way or that, or woman have to wear dresses, or you can't belong to boy scouts, or go to dances, and so on. They just believe God's word as it was written in the Bible. The United States was founded by 56 men of which half were educated in Bible Study and seminary education. The freedom they sought was to break away from Great Britain and begin a nation under God. Here are the words of the founders of the United States.
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. – Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln Memorial
United States Supreme Court
“This is a Christian nation” – United States Supreme Court Decision in Church of the Holy United States Supreme Court
This nation under God – Abraham Lincoln, Gettysberg Address and inscribed on Lincoln Memorial -
“[The Bible] is the rock on which our Republic rests.”
– Andrew Jackson
God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever. – Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial
We beseech [God] to pardon our national and other transgressions… – George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation 1789 -
It goes on and on. Our country was blessed by God. Our money says "In God We Trust". He has given us abundance of natural resources and wealth. He will soon withdraw his blessing as we deny his words. The Supreme Court has lost sight of how it began. Here are the words of the first chief of the Supreme Court.
John Jay – First Chief-Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court
Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty – as well as privilege and interest – of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. – John Jay
The Supreme Court allows abortions and decides when it is a human being or not. 57% of all abortions are done because the baby would be an inconvenience. It is easier to get an abortion than go to the drugstore. Statistics on the percentage of gay members in the United States vary. How can this small percentage change the word of the Bible and the Marriage Constitution of the United States. It is because people have lost the word of God. They have become complacent and indifferent. It is becoming easier everyday to understand how 6 million people believed Hitler. It used to blow my mind how such a horrific event could have happened. Reading these posts of "pastors" confirms that it is easier to go with the flow of peace, love, and happiness and it should all be "cool". No word of God needed! Make up what makes you feel good. I truly believe that this decision if passed will be close to being the last insult to God.
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Carol
I agree.
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terry lewis
I agree however let's not forget. God is the same today as he was yesterday. Sodom and gamora was destroyed for these sins. People have forgot to love our God but also fear him. To many preachers preach about the love of God but leave out his wrath.
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Rjr
finally some one with sense!
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Steve Burke
Simply, I agree. We as a nation have not only become tolerant of sin, we as a nation have changed our laws to make sin good (legal), and morality bad. I don't hate anyone, but I cannot condone legalizing sin. Pray for us sinners instead of tolerating our sins. God bless.
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Nicholas
Doesn't God say"tho shall not sin" but yet his own son stole. It was in hunger not for greed but a sin none the less. Wouldn't we all do the same if in same position. The same goes for gay marriage. If you were in love with a person of same sex wouldn't you want to be legally allowed yo share your life / love with that person? I know I would. Tho shall not judge so I say allow it. Let God judge it not mankind.
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AbbyJo Ovitsky
"What you are now is what you have been, what you will be is what you do now. ..... "If you judge someone, you have no time to love him or her."
Lessons from this teaching: As soon as you affix the label "sinner" to someone for something they do you do not look at their soul much less at what else they might be doing that's not sinful; You yourself become the label, in due time. If you focus on the label "sinner" you yourself become that. There is sin and there is sin. Buddha taught that "avoiding sexual misconduct" is not desirable but who am I to judge what is "mis"conduct? To me, misconduct is anything that violates free will. A minor/child cannot consent by free will to a sex act, that would be misconduct. Rape is misconduct, it violates free will. Is prostitution sinful? In Nevada, by willing workers who are licensed by the State Health Department to provide sexual services to clients?
Each soul I believe has its own "account." A label does not have an account. "Gay" does not have an account in heaven or hell. Souls act, accumulating karma, labels do not. My job as a minister, as I see it is to focus my attention on souls, not to judge but to let God do the judging.
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Rick
So if I follow your thinking we shouldn't accept your sins, either. Does that mean you should be treated differently because you sin? So what if your sins are different? While you and your church are praying for "those sinners" you might want to make a great deal of room in your prayers for yourselves. Because in the Bible, the truly unforgivable sin is judging others.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mathew 7:2
I'm not Christian, but it seems while you're so interested in someone else's soul, by your own bible, you should be more worried about your own soul.
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AbbyJo Ovitsky
we chant a steady drumbeat of equality equality equality and all the Republicans hear is commie, commie, commie
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Rick
It's great that you categorize Republicans as one single ideology. I am Republican but I am all in favor of equal rights for the lgbt community. Heck, I was a stand in boyfriend for a friend of mine so he wouldn't be alone in the gay pride parade. Just as any other people they should have all the same rights. Our rights only go as far as they infringe on others' rights, but gays/lesbians getting married doesn't seem to infringe on anyone else's rights. One last thing. This part is just my opinion, but you should consider going to Huff Post to spew your hatred of the Republican party. Just as people here who want to bash Democrats/liberals should go somewhere else. Shouldn't this be a place where we seek answers, understanding and peace without people attacking and vilifying others?
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Marc Arneau
We are all God's children and he wants all of us to be happy and spread his word. It should not matter how we do it as long as we do it. The love of two people doesn't matter as long as they are worshiping Christ our Lord.
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Sue Nicholai
I think we need to revamp a lot of our laws. Like a baby at the same number of weeks old can be aborted and it isn't a child,but if the child was wanted and some caused trauma to the woman they can be charged with murder. Pokice can seize assests for their own gain without proof if they say they suppect drugs. Their are many of these kinds of laws and practices that are wrong
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Tayalor Fraser
very simply, I married the person I wanted to. Why should others be denied the same right? They shouldn't. It's criminal to discriminate. Have we learned nothing since 1964 when the Civil rights Act came into being. That gave equality to minorities. But, still, it was for everyone.
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Clyde Brooks Gardner
The government has no place in religious matters. Therefore, the rights of same gender partners to marry is up to each individual church or denomination. The pastors have the privilege to make their own decisions about interpretation of how marriage is defined. In our country it is a matter of equal rights.
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Pastor Susie Timlick
Simply APPLAUSE and AMEN...
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Rjr
No pastors only have the right to preach the truth of the Word of God and not deviate from it. If your not preaching truth then don't preach! Show where one time God ever says this is acceptable to Him? I am tired of so called preachers who don't know their Bible!
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michael head
The Holy Bible is very clear on the matter. How could anyone ever claim to be a minister of the Gospel and deviate from the Holy Bible? If you deny this fact, you should not claim to be a minister of the Gospel. None of us say it's a sin to love thy neighbor, just that Gay marriage is not in alignment with the Holy Gospel.
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Dr Griffith
Please list the Bible verses from the New Testament that say Gay marriage is wrong. I cannot seem to find them.
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Rick
David Griffith - It's actually Leviticus 20:13 that they're all cuckoo over. Old Testament. But according to the old testament most of us should have cut out our eyes and at least one hand by now. I don't see that happening so it seems to me they are just picking one single verse to follow and forgetting that in Christianity the entire old testament is basically disregarded because of the coming of Christ and the teachings to the contrary in the New Testament.
But I was only an altar boy, so what do I know? Well, I know I'm glad I was an altar boy in a Protestant church and not a Catholic one!
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Janet DeMar
It is quite clear that you do not know the bible yourself could someone you know counsel you need some serious help and I hope you seek some repent and maybe you can save yourself before its to late .
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rob113
Love is love.
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Rjr
and sin is sin!
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Pastor Susie Timlick
Matthew 7: 1-3 and so is JUDGING....We have but one judge and He is not of this earth, but ever watchful of all His children' s acts...
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Rick
Thank you Susie,
I've been trying to tell people that, but somehow they aren't good at seeing their OWN problems. Go figure.
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Hoot Owler
Sin? we all sin, we all miss the mark...I do it everyday. a sin here, a sin there..Tell me Ray you don't...But God's love is like a one coat primer and covers them all...
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Rev. John D. Partin
But, Ray, you haven't proved that homosexuality is a sin, and certainly not by the circular "reasoning" of quoting Bible verses against it, since those verses were put into "God's mouth" in order to make "God agree with those Bible writers".
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Kathy
Love is all-ways the answer. Loving human beings are the ones setting the right example and better to follow and support them as they raise their young to be Loving Humans and make their own choices. Free will is not so free now -is it.
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Pete
The Bible recognizes homosexuality as an abomination. Does it not? Therefore I will not agree with a homosexual Union nor should anyone that recognizes the holy bible as a truthful vessel created and inspired, thru man, by God.
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Rjr
We should all read Leviticus 18:22 and what God has to say about this, not our opinions that matter but what God's opinion of Gay marriage is to Him. Read Romans chapter 1 again God is against it and then 1 Corinthians chaperter 6 read it again God is against men with men and women with women. So stop the whatever attitudes and get your attitudes right with God wrong is wrong no matter how much society excepts wrong. Either you stand with God or you stand against Him! I am taking my stand with Him!
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Tayalor Fraser
So you're saying God called in His secretary and dictated the bible? Wake up! The people wh wrote the bible were humans who obviously were bigoted folks who just did not like people who were different from themselves. This is but one reason I'm a practicing Buddhist. It is one of the world religions which stresses tolerance. Tolerance is a foreign word in the Christian faith. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo
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Kathleen Baird
This vision of justifying intolerance and legalizing inequalty on the grounds of religion must be stopped. A Christian "Sharia" is not a true ideal for the government of the U.S.A.
Those who talk about the "Founding Fathers" creating a "Christian country" are unaware of the REAL history of the States. The Pilgrims and the earliest settlers came to North America to ESCAPE religious intolerance, not to continue it. The following quote is the BEST description of their ideas!
"The business of the government is to protect the people. If a man says he believes in 20 gods or no gods, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Thomas Jefferson
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Karen K.
Kathleen,
www.allabouthistory.com Pilgrims: The Escape of Courageous People The Pilgrims were English Separatists who founded Plymouth Colony in 1620. The Pilgrims, fleeing religious persecution, broke away from the Church of England because they felt the Church violated biblical principles of true Christians. Due to persecution and economic distress, they believed they had to break away from the Church of England to form congregations which were more in keeping with divine requirements. Coming out of the recent Reformation, the pilgrims believed the Church of England had not come far enough. The Church was under strict rule of the State so their actions were considered treasonous and these Separatists had to flee their homeland.
Determined and very courageous men and women committed themselves (in all aspects of their lives) to life based on the Bible and a relationship with God. They brought their only known culture and spiritual values to the New World and attempted to establish an improved foundation of English society on an unfamiliar new continent.
Because people insist on ignoring God's word, we will soon suffer what the evil in the world has in store for us. The bible was written with 25 % of its word being prophetic in the future. We are close to the last of the prophetic scripture coming true. Satan is in crunch time to get every last soul he can. The United States is not indicated in Revelations. In Daniel, the lion which represents England had eagles wings on its back. The wings represented the eagle of the United States. In Revelations the wings are gone and 7 countries make the new world order. Perhaps it is useless to try to change so many people that abandon God. It is probably already written.
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Karen K.
Sorry, it is www.allabouthistory.org/pilgrims.htm
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Karen K.
www.allabouthistory.org/pilgrims.htm Pilgrims: The Escape of Courageous People The Pilgrims were English Separatists who founded Plymouth Colony in 1620. The Pilgrims, fleeing religious persecution, broke away from the Church of England because they felt the Church violated biblical principles of true Christians. Due to persecution and economic distress, they believed they had to break away from the Church of England to form congregations which were more in keeping with divine requirements. Coming out of the recent Reformation, the pilgrims believed the Church of England had not come far enough. The Church was under strict rule of the State so their actions were considered treasonous and these Separatists had to flee their homeland.
Determined and very courageous men and women committed themselves (in all aspects of their lives) to life based on the Bible and a relationship with God. They brought their only known culture and spiritual values to the New World and attempted to establish an improved foundation of English society on an unfamiliar new continent.
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Chuck Ellenberger
The whole issue has been about the protections a heterosexual couple receive automatically by saying "I Do" that a homosexual couple doesn't receive without marriage or thousands of dollars of of legal bills for "equal" protections and there are still loopholes.
Imagine, you have been with your partner for 20 years, you have built a life together, business together, had good and bad times together.
One half ends up in the hospital and all of a sudden the other half doesn't legally exist and can be legally kept from visiting their partner because the family or, worse yet, the hospital says no because the partner isn't FAMILY under the law!
Or they have built a home or business together, one dies and the other half looses everything because they aren't married or FAMILY under the law.
This happens on a daily basis!!!
The media and traditional religion has made the fight something entirely different! Special privileges or special rights is what they say. NOT!!! Just equal rights and protections.
I don't believe anyone in the LGBTQ community ever cared about the religious aspect of this, originally they just wanted the equal protection under the law. Now the situation has an entire life of its own!
I don't necessarily agree with the promiscuity in the LGBTQ community but there has traditionally never been a reason for them to settle down and stay together.
Why should it matter who someone loves to have equal protection of the law.
I think if the court rules for equality, it is something that should have been there all along?
I'll get off my soap box but that is my opinion.
Thank you for your time and God Bless!
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Pastor Susie Timlick
FINALLY , SOME PRECIOUS SOUL...WHO REALLY GETS IT.....
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Carol
I'm confused by the legal issues surrounding SSM and the argument opined above. Don't most corporations through their medical insurance companies now provide for partner rights? Is a Beneficiary Designation still binding? Isn't a Last Will and Testament a binding legal document? Is a Power of Attorney a legal document with regard to medical decisions? Can't a SScouple involved in a legitimate business draw up a legally binding document that allows for a division of property? What am I missing?
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Chuck Ellenberger
Unfortunately the biological family in a lot of cases can still triump or fight the legal side.
Remember it's only in the last 5 years or so that the SS protections that do exist have existed.
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Carol
Fair enough, but it seems to me that even heterosexual couples have the same problem, vis a vis 1st family children over 2nd wife inheritances. And, if a SScouple were married and one or the other partner inherited a sum of money, a family would be in their rights to sue just as easily. How would SSM circumvent that?
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Lynn Cason
Who am I to judge some one on this same sex marries. I just know what it tell us in the Bible. As faith in God its wrong.
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terry lewis
I always here gays say we're judging them. When we're not. It's not our place to judge anyone. That is for God to do. We as Christians are to love the person but hate the sin. If you wanna be gay be gay. Just know as I do that we will all be held accountable for our own sins
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jaanet demar
Terry Lewis you are being judge and jury you must repent yes when we go to the lord in death all people beaten down will find peace repent now before you have to answer yourself
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Carol
jaanet ru a paid blogger?
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Janet DeMar
Not a paid blogger a disabled kind truthful and have respect for all that God has created
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ChristaW
I am hopeful that the Supreme Court will make the right decision to spread marriage equality throughly the U.S. I don't know why this is even a topic of debate. Marriage, love, equality for all. It seems so simple.
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Jay Kleine
I pray that SCOTUS finds itself on the right side of history, which is allowing two people to marry regardless of gender. I think this will happen this month, though I am curious to see if it will be a 5-4 or 6-3 decision.
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Tom
SCOTUS should rule in favor of marriage equality. It is long overdue. As for the world stage, the USA is not the leader of thought and deed it used to be. Several countries have eclipsed us on issues such as health care and equality. Canada and the Scandinavian counties have not fallen off the earth due to their support of marriage equality. SCOTUS should approve excuse it it the right thing to do..
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Angie Taylor
Love isn't something that can be dictated by others, it's something that just happens. Hopefully we'll all evolve past this someday and learn to appreciate diversity rather than allow it to divide us.
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Rev Denny Edwards
Please stop calling it gay marriage when it is simply equal marriage. We are all one.
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Minister Michael Rooney
Marriage is between man and a woman not two men or two women. I don't hate anyone because they are Gay. But as a Christian and my belief calls me not to support gay marriage. It's gay marriage not God marriage
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Susan
God marriage is more like judge not just join the loving couple together - just saying we sure do define God as a rather controlling judgmental being. My God is just pure unconditional love.
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Janet DeMar
If you keep these views of this subject you should get out of the ministry you do not speak for God and if you don't find kindness and respect when your time comes you will answer to God himself you are a hater
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Tess
it is the soul of another we fall in love with... gender should never stand in the way. if we do have freedom left in this world then let all which is of goodness be accepted
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Tess
Tess * sorry typos
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Galen M. Ross
We as pastor's need to ask one question in our lives as pastor's. What would Jesus do? Would He discriminate against a segment of society simply because they love someone of the same sex or, would He see the love the two people had for each other and honor that love by performing a wedding ceremony for them? I have said this before, people need to get over themselves and realize that if God didn't want same-sex couples to exist He wouldn't have created them.
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bootjock@ca.rr.com
Our normality scares the status quo. Oh well, they will just have to get use to it !
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Tayalor Fraser
Well spoken and very true.
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dennis
I agree gay marriage sucks.
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JG
The Supreme Court should do the proper thing, which is leave the issue of gay "marriage" to the States, where it is up to the invidual States to decide whether or not to allow gay "marraige": anything else is improper. However if the liberal perverts get their way and it does become a national law, methinks I'll take my sister to the courthouse and apply for a marriage licsense, as we are two consenting adults and if we love each other that should be ok...right? Right?
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revbarbarajadams
Really? Please read my post about what Alabama is doing right now with marriage licenses. They are disassembling marriage licenses here. WE are going to contracts, like a marriage is a thing, a car, a house, a nothing. And if she is your STEPsister and no blood relations, go ahead and trot to the courthouse. Sounds odd to me but okay dokay.
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Felica
I love love. Regardless if you believe in creation or the science of evolution, we as a species will always evolve. Why slow the process? Maybe this is the creators way of making us all equal so we'll be ready to return home, equal by his side, made in his image, as he wanted it to be.
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jfseybold
One must remember, the religious ceremony is a "blessing" given to the civil act! If we wish to curse (the opposite of bless) then we are not ministers of love. What we bless are the people, the love and the community. We do not determine what constitutes marriage, we bless the people who are getting married!
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Missloveletlive
Hooray for Marriage Equality!!! Hooray for LOVE!!
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Morne
Why does nobody head the guidance of the Bible ? Is the Bible now to be discarded ? Please do not ask what Jesus would do when we have clear guidance on what is morally acceptable in the Bible.
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Reverend, James
Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor "homosexual offenders" nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
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Janet DeMar
REV YOU NEED SOME SERIOUS HELP GO GET THERAPY AND YOU WILL STOP YOUR HATE FOR OTHERS
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Sheryl Taylor
I chose to become a minister because of this very issue. Equality is not just a good idea, but a spiritual principal. Equality is inclusive. We are not truly free until we offer our brothers and sisters all the same rights and opportunities to all. I am not gay, but I have many gay friends. They are my friends first and foremost. Their sexual orientation is their business, not mine. I believe love should be celebrated. I am pleasantly surprised that gay marriage is being passed in this country and others. I can't imagined not being able to marry the love of my life. God is Spirit and we are made in His image as Spirit, not bodies. Bodies are only our "earth suits" to move through this life. This is an opportunity for our own spiritual growth, to keep our minds and our hearts open, even if our mind doesn't totally understand yet. It is my responsibility to set my intention each day to walk in love towards ALL my brothers and sisters.
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revbarbarajadams
Thank you, Sheryl. I totally agree. I loved the "earth suits." So very true.
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Carol
I'm not sure that simply saying that 'if God didn't want same sex couples to exist, He wouldn't have created them.' sums up this question. God also created Satan to test us and in that test to prove our LOVE for Him by following His commandments. Do we know or have we really studied the long-term consequences of same-sex marriage rules, both civilly and personally? What do children of same-sex marriages have to say? Are their case histories that can be studied? What about civil histories; what are the often-quoted "unintended consequences"?
I have no bias or stand in judgment of gays - they will answer to God as I will do. What is the ultimate goal for them, however? Do they not have civil unions now? What is this rage to have it made the law of the land? It won't change their love for each other, will it?-
Janet DeMar
PLEASE QUIT CALLING HUMAN BEING GAYS LIKE THEY ARE DIRT CAROL YOUR COMMENTS MAKE A GOOD PERSON SICK TRY TO LEARN FROM SOMEONE THAT KNOWS THAT YOU HAVE MADE A BIG MISTAKE IN YOUR JUDGEMENT HOW DARE YOU SAY WHAT YOU WILL BUT YOU SHOULD PRAY YOU CHANGE YOUR HATEFUL WAYS
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Laura Quirk- Wyckoff
If I loved a woman as much as a man I should be able to marry her.
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Tim
I don't have an issue with gay people being married, my issue is when those who try and force others who don't religiously or morally agree with SSM say no then the SSC sues those who do not agree
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James peel
God intended one man one woman for marriage any other is conforming to the world which is against the Bible which is against God God said that shall not conform to the world
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Kim
It's wrong and I hope you all realize that before you wake up in front of the judgment thrown some day. It would be horrible to hear God say depart from Me, I know ye not. I'm particularly disappointed at the pastors and preachers who claim to carry God's Holy Word that are allowing people to believe that they are okay. The blind will lead the blind....
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REV . Eugene Moore.
I will not marry 2 man or 2 woman GOD put man here first then woman for man not man for man or womam for woman MAN FOR WOMAN ONLY .
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Rjr
AMEN brother!
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Janet DeMar
WHO LEFT YOU REV MOORE IN CHARGE OF GODS KINGDOM CHANGE YOUR HATEFUL WAYS SEEK THE TRUTH YOU AND RAY DO NOT SPEAK FOR GOD YOU SPEAK SATANS WORD >THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE
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defender
In the Bible Jesus is "AGAINST" Gay Marriage, as I am. I feel it is unnatural and unholy.
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Melissa
There is nothing 'unnatrual and unholy' about love. Jesus was never against love. Reread your bible before spewing such hatred. I mean no disrespect, but know what you are saying. What happened to love thy neighbor?
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revbarbarajadams
Hang in there, Melissa. You have right on your side.
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Janet DeMar
If you have a hotline to heaven my friend your phone is being disconnected you are full of yourself and a bigot repent
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Tayalor Fraser
And, who wrote the Bible? Did Jesus call in His secretary and dictate it? NO!! Bigoted people from a long time ago wrote the bible and, just because they didn't like people different from them, they said it's a mortal sin for this, that, and other thing. When we die, if, in fact, there is a Heaven, we will be judged at that time. It is not up to us as pastors to deny people basic, simple human rights.
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Carol
Do you not have civil unions where you live? That is a basic human right. A pastor has a right to refuse to marry same sex individuals if his moral underpinings tell him so. Why doesn't he have rights?
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revbarbarajadams
I have no issue with an individual's right to decline marrying people. There are plenty of wedding officiants that don't. I'm one. Have them call me.
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revbarbarajadams
Historical fact: Jesus came from a sect of Jews that were literate and taught how to read and write. I have often thought that it was odd that Jesus, who could read and write, left us nothing from his own hand. I'm not trying to take anything away from Jesus, his Apostles, or anything else in the Bible. I am just making a statement of fact, and it has always made me think.
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Rjr
After reading most of these comments it is obvious some of you so called pastors do not know your Bibles. Sad that so many who teach shouldn't be because they have no idea of the True Word of God and as usual only want to talk about the Love of God when Jesus walked this earth He spoke more on Hell then Heaven why is that? "Because broad is the way to Hell" God is a just God and can NEVER EVER EVER accept sin. Proof of it look at the cross God the Father turned His back on the Son because He could not look on the sin Jesus took on the cross for the world. Jesus said My God My God Why has thou forsaken me, because God can't look on sin and accept it. Those who desire to teach and teach falsely better be careful God says He will add the plagues of this Book to those that do. You play with fire you will get fire. You have been warned.
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Karen K.
Ray, here are the 26 signs of the end of time. 2, 7, and 11 pertain to this. I realize that it is hard to be a modern day disciple. It would be far easier to read these posts and just shake your head and walk away. I don't want to let these things happen and say that I did nothing. My favorite saying is: "Evil thrives when enough good men do nothing." I have been blessed to have been brought up in a Christian home and been taught the true word of God. Thank you to Jesus who died for our sins. The only way that we knew the truth is because someone told us. We must share and tell others. You have done just that.
False Bible teachers would be money hungry. They would be smooth talkers, have many followers, and slur the Christian faith (2 Peter 2:1-3) See some at: Fakemessiah.com
Homosexuality would be increasingly evident at the end of the age (2 Timothy 3:3)
Earthquakes would be in diverse places (Matthew 24:7)
Stress would be part of living (2 Timothy 3:1)
Many wars would erupt (Matthew 24:6)
People would forsake the Ten Commandments as a moral code, committing adultery, stealing, lying, and killing (Matthew 24:12)
There would be a cold religious system, in denying God's power (2 Timothy 3:5)
Men would substitute fantasy in place of Christian truth (2 Timothy 4:4). This is so evident at Christmas when the birth of the Savior is lost behind the myth of Santa Claus.
Deadly diseases would be prevalent (Matthew 24:7). The worldwide increase in AIDS deaths is almost inestimable. Over 160,000 Americans die of cancer each year.
The fact that God once flooded the earth (the Noahic flood) would be denied (2 Peter 3:5-6). There is a mass of fossil evidence to prove this fact, yet it is flatly ignored by the scientific world because of its uncanny implication.
The institution of marriage would be forsaken by many (1 Timothy 4:3)
There would be an increase in famines (Matthew 24:7)
Increase in vegetarianism would increase (1 Timothy 4:3-4)
There would be a cry for peace (1 Thessalonians 5:3)
The possession of Jerusalem would be at the center of international turmoil (Zechariah 12:3)
Knowledge would increase (Daniel 12:4)
There would be hypocrites within the Church (Matthew 13:25-30)
There would be an increase of religious cults/false teachers (Matthew 24:11 & 24)
The future would seem fearful to many (Luke 21:26)
Humanity would become materialistic (2 Timothy 3:4)
There would be many involved in travel (Daniel 12:4)
The Christian Gospel would be preached as a warning to all nations (Matthew 24:14)
Jesus said Christians would be hated "for His name's sake" (Matthew 24:9)
24: And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Luke 21:25-26).
25: Youth would become rebellious. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy (2 Timothy 3:2)
26: Men would mock the warning signs of the end of the age saying, "for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." (2 Peter 3:4). The Bible even reveals their motivation, they love lust (verse 3). They fail to understand that a day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us. God is not subject to the time that He created. He can flick through time as we flick through the pages of a history book. The reason He seems to be silent, is because He is patiently waiting, not willing that any perish, but that all come to repentance.
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OJ
Personally, I have no dog in this fight, so everyone can come to whatever understanding they have with their god, right or wrong in others' eyes. My beef here is that "marriage equality" is exactly what we have now. Any man can marry any woman and visa versa. You can be ill, a drunk, white, black, gay, straight, even an inmate and you can marry someone of the opposite sex. This is equal across the board. What the LGBT community wants is special consideration. Let's be honest and call it what it is. The "equality" label is used to impose a bit of guilt on people in a way that masks the fact that other than equal consideration is what is being asked for. Again, I could care less how this turns out, but is it just impossible to have an honest conversation without having to be PC anymore?
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Rev. John D. Partin
O.J., what part of "marriage equality" are you not understanding? It isn't marriage equality for gay people to just go ahead and marry persons of the opposite sex, the same as straight people do, and conform to that practice indulged in and approved of by straight people already. It is marriage equality for them to marry persons of the same sex whom they love and for those marriages to persons of the same sex to be given the same legal standing, respect, rights, and consideration as are given to marriages to persons of the opposite sex. For somebody "who has no dog in this fight, so everyone can come to whatever understanding they have with their god, right or wrong in other's eyes", supposedly, you certainly sound suspiciously the same as those who do have a dog in this fight on the pro-homophobic and straight side and arrive at their same conclusion: marry someone of the opposite sex and conform to our practice.
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Terri Paul
I live in Wisconsin by the Oneida Tribe Nation. Does this mean I can legally marry someone on the reservation? Plus only Native right? I to will try to check on this and see is there is anything I can find out. please help me in this matter. Sincerely Ordained Minister Terri Paul
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AbbyJo Ovitsky
As far as I know the feds do not have jurisdiction over native reservations, the tribal counsel does, ask them first.
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Hoot Owler
Ray, surely you jest? You will continue to put Christ on the cross to die for our sins over and over again. You will walk around spreading shame & guilt on people thinking this is pleasing to God?. You have a measuring stick on your brothers sin, while yours are not judged. That Ray sounds like hell....Warn me all you want but on redemption day God will find me spreading love...Peace to you
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revbarbarajadams
God Bless you, Hoot Owler.
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Melissa
I am a lesbian. I don't believe God would send me to hell for who I love. Is that not what the bible teaches us? To love? There is so much hatred out there, over many things that people refuse to open their eyes to see the bigger picture. They only choose to believe what is told in snippets in a church sermon, instead of actually sitting down and reading the bible and developing their own opinion. Their own identity. I am the first one to say I have sinned, I have done things I'm not proud of, need forgiveness for. But I'm also the first to not condemn someone else for their life. To each their own, I love them either way. I don't have hatred for the straight person who yells at me, calls me horrible names and uses the bible as a shield. I feel sorry for that person. Because they don't know what the love Jesus wanted us to feel actually is. And I don't mean to offend anyone on here, I'm apologize if I have. This is simply my statement as yours is your own.
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revbarbarajadams
Melissa, no matter what other people say, God doesn't work that way. He is NOT going to send you to Hell for who you love. Ignore the idiots and recognize the truth. God is omnipotent. Does any rational person REALLY believe He would be so caught up in the petty sexual lives of His flock. I don't know about you, but I am just not that prideful, narcissistic, and full of myself! Your words are heartfelt and reasonable.
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AbbyJo Ovitsky
- Gov't needs to stay out of our bedrooms!
- IMHO it is going to happen regardless of what the Supreme Court says, but the SC can make a uniform law instead of what we already have with gambling, prostitution and marijuana, which is buffet style.
- IMHO our statutes are hypocritical whilst protecting immorality in leadership and banking then declaring that private expressions of love are immoral. Since when do grownups need gov't permission to express love and affection to other grownups?
- The danger here is setting a precedent that federal laws regarding civil rights are more important than State or tribal laws regarding the same basic human rights. What I see is certainly a steady eroding of traditional ways and replacing them with equality. Will this decision, if favorable in banning discrimination against gay marriage and gay couples openly using public services result in the kinds of laws France has passed which ban any public display of private religious symbol? Will the court try to use this type of precedent to impose vaccines in the name of equality?RFID chips? Or will those opposing chips and vaccines cite the new pro gay marriage case law as precedent for the right to say no, as a basic human right, a civil right? I am not sure it makes sense to invite the high court to interfere in our personal lives any more than they already are. However, this intrusion is not new. Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973) was pretty intimate. That was the beginning of a snow ball that's turning into a hailstorm.
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revbarbarajadams
You really need to look up Alabama Senate bill SB377. Keep a barf bag handy.
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thesteamingteabag
we are all entitled to our opnion even when its not the popular opnion. i follow what Gods word teaches so i believe marriage is for male and felamles to procrate and be companions to each other. we dont havae to know what anu]ybody does in their private bedroom shoved in our faces to explain to our kids what it means. when kids ask what is gay or lesbien we are forced to explain twisted sexual encounters that children shouldnt know about until their parents teach sex ed at home. Gods word win with me marriage is for men and women but what ppl do behind doors at home is their busniess. and their age of consent but parents shouldnt be forced into explaining sodemy to a child
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Hoot Owler
You follow every word the bible says?
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Minister Tracy
Life is short Who cares who marry's whom? Why is it anyone's business except those who are marrying? Live your life in such a way that you do no harm. Do what's right. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make you right. In the U.S. We have freedom of speech freedom of religion Live and let live!
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revbarbarajadams
Exactly!
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CRAIG
I always looked at the situation this way: If two people really care for each other, what does it matter, and what business is it of mine at to what sex both parties are? If you can find someone you love enough to want to spend the rest of your life with them, then more power to you!
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roc
Lucky for some of you on here, that your God either hates the same people as you do, or feels as you do, that they should be enslaved with bigotry or have less than you. You that cast stones or point at another with accusing fingers at those over there, who shall be treated as less or will burn in hell and NOT have the kingdom of many houses . etc etc. Again Lucky for you that your counterfeit Christ (the father of lies) has granted you the gift of damnation and judgment onto others! Your infinity, so shall you be measured with your own spoon of your measurement's! The true Christ is about love which is the nourishment of life. ALL LIFE! Hate /bigotry/ fear/your judgments... this is the nourishment, the food of pain/suffering and death. Again you belong to the father of lies and he has tricked you with fake light, as he collects his damned. Not one of you is without sin, NOT ONE. Blessed be and much luck. Pax-out
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Skippy
MY bible has an opinion! That gets ignored! :(
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Jim
I'm a minister of faith not religion. The history of the bible speaks for itself. Christ represented faith not religion , We live in a country of seperaion from church and state. If a person gay pays their taxes is law abiding they should have equal rights,to denie them that is criminal. The days of Rev. Phelps and others who preach fear and hate should no longer be talerated. I'm a citizan of the United States Of American not amember of ahate group.
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revbarbarajadams
Bravo
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revbarbarajadams
I think all of you should visit the Alabama House of Representatives website and look at bill SB377. It has already passed the Alabama Senate and now is in the House of Representative's Judiciary. The bill states that it is abolishing marriage licenses in lieu of a marriage contract. No ceremonies anymore. No vows to make it legal. Oh, citizens can have a ceremony, but it won't mean a hill of beans because it doesn't legalize the marriage, it is just fluff.
Think of all the businesses that will go out of business because so much of their revenue comes from weddings. Approximately $15,000.00 on an average is spent on weddings in Alabama. That is a lot of tax revenue that won't happen anymore. Bakeries, venues, wedding attire shops, caterers, restaurants, florists...there is a whole industry that is supported by weddings, including wedding officiants.
And I was told at the soon-to-be defunk marriage license department that with the way it is written, only lawyers will be able to create the contract. Gee, poor lawyers. They just don't make enough cash as it is....boo hoo
Alabama gets to decide WHO gets to participate in the contract. See, there's the rub. Alabama is trying to sidestep the Supreme Court's ruling if it become law that marriage licenses should be available to same-sex people. There is a law on the books in Alabama that says that a marriage is between a man and a woman. Period. They are thinking that if they change it to a "contract" that they will not have to provide same-sex couples with the ability to marry because of that stipulation.
And guess what is going to happen? The good taxpayers of Alabama will be paying through the nose for all the litigation and lawyer fees when we are challenged. And we will be.
Plus, the extra "fee" that the probate judges will collect for the marriage contracts will be more than the marriage license is now and the "extra" funds will not go to the County that the people obtain the marriage contract from but to the Alabama General Fund.
That is the $$$$ aspect.
My issue is with the heart aspect. I am heterosexual and have been married to my husband for almost 25 years. I do NOT have a problem with same-sex marriages. To quote Hillary Clinton (and I am not a Democrat), "What difference does it make?" Love is love.
We are not sheeple; we are people with rights and responsibilities. I love Alabama, but this is ridiculous.
Let's say that our Alabama probate judges didn't like redheads. Who knows why, they just didn't. If those judges said to our State, "Gee, we just don't agree with giving marriage licenses to red-haired people" someone justifiably would say, "Look, you agreed to this job and because of a law from the Supreme Court, issuing marriage licenses to redheads is just part of it. If you cannot find it in your heart to provide a marriage license to redheads, you need to find yourself another job because that's what the job entails."
But no. Why couldn't we have come together and recognizw that the world is not a perfect place and we aren't the Island of Alabama. We are a part of the UNITED States of America, and therefore, we abide by the law of the land, which will soon be that all people have the right to be married, if they choose.
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Skippy
YOUR ALL FORGETTING! IN BIBLICAL TIMES BIRTH CONTROL DIDNT EXIST SEX WASNT A GAME
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Skippy
The moral application is similar.. Sex was a gift from a lord Necessary to procreate
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Minster Denise
As I read the comments it saddened me on how much anger and resentment people still have of others who are different. I think we should be allowed to believe any way we want to and pray to whom ever we want. All of us will never believe the same way and that's what makes our world so unique. I don't care what your sexual orientation is because to me we are all created equal and we love who we love. I just don't get what the big deal is if a man loves a man or a woman loves a woman. I pray for all of us to have peace within ourselves and not worry about those who are different than we are. We should accept one another for who and what we are not feel the need to judge others because our beliefs feel threatened. Peace and love to us all.
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Rev. Donna
I totally agree! We are all God's children, equal in every way.
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PAL
Every one has freedom of choice ... to choose right or wrong ...if the govt said everyone was free to jump off the Empire State Building how many would flock to jump.....just because a system of order deems something is okay doesn't mean it is moral or RIGHT.... there is no Equality when it comes to SIN.... sin is sin no if and-s but-s or maybe-s......just as n the days of Sodom ... oh how history repeats itself....we are to love the sinner and to hate the sin...judgement is coming soon and very soon for everyone and all will be judged by the same moral standard. Choose the Grace of God while it can still be found...!!!
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Carol
I provide this - "Granting civil union status or, worse, marriage to homosexual unions will ultimately weaken marriage for everyone. The introduction of same-sex registered partnerships in Scandinavia has coincided with a sharp rise in out-of-wedlock births. Granting gay marriage or its functional equivalent has not helped marriage in these countries; it has made marriage increasingly superfluous. When eroticism is perceived as merely "more intimacy" rather than as a means to a "one-flesh" reintegration with a sexual other into a sexual whole, when the only requisite for sexual unions is commitment and fidelity (and a truncated definition of commitment and fidelity at that), when "lifelong" becomes "long-term" and "long-term" is thought of as a 5-10 year-union, when even the concept of "serial monogamy" is called into question by the high incidence of "open relationships" among male homosexual unions, when sexual unions are once and for all severed in society's perception from a commitment to have and raise children, and when society rejects as bigotry the notion that a mother and father are both needed for the optimal development of children--when all these elements are in place, consistent with the pro-homosex agenda, the general public will cease to value marriage as a special and even sacred institution. "The profanation of marriage" will have gone full circle--both its secularization and debasement. Imagine society granting marriage licenses to any union that met the conditions of a committed friendship and ask yourself how long marriage can survive as an institution." I DID NOT WRITE THIS, however, Robert Gagnon, from Western Seminary did and I offer it as a slippery slope scenario, if you will. Gay or straight; you can love anyone you wish, and I hope you continue to do so, for a life without love is not happy. But if you're gay, search and deeply examine your NEED for special consideration. The joining of man and woman in marriage is millenial old and should remain so.
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Janet DeMar
Your a sick woman I will pray you see the light
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Carol
Thank you
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Reverand: Sequoyah
Right on Pal. My Bible tells me it is sinful,and wrong for The same sex gender to lay with one another. Praise be to the Almighty God the father of ALL creation.
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James
"While same-sex marriage is still illegal in Northern Ireland, the nation’s highest court recently ruled that religious freedom doesn’t exempt businesses from anti-discrimination laws."
This is a bit of a nitpick, but I believe the ruling you are referring to was issued by a county court and is likely to be appealed, and religious freedom did not play a significant role in the ruling. The main issue in the case is simply whether or not the defendants' actions fell within the definition of discrimination under Northern Ireland's equality laws.
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CDawson
I have no ill will for those different than myself. If we weren't allowed to choose, GOD would not have given us free will. As long as it is hurting no one, do what makes you happy. We all only get one life. Do what makes you happy. I have married a lesbian couple. I have no problems marrying a gay male couple. To hate is wrong! If you are going to quote the Bible then remember: "judge not, lest you be judged!" Life is too short to be angry at things you cannot control. I hope that gay marriege is allowed. EVERYONE has the right to be happy! Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is what this country was founded on. Have a nice day!
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Rjr
So many of you show your ignorance to knowing the Word of God! All to your shame! God says that no Homosexual will ever see the Kingdom of God unless they repent and stop their SIN! Don't try and twist God's Word to what it is and says about Men lying with men is an ABONIATION! as it is. Jesus said i am the same yesterday today and forever i never change. What some of you are doing is trying to change God to accept your sin and He never will. So read and study as it says in Timothy "Study to show thyself approved unto God a workmen who needth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the Word of Truth". Some of you so called no it alls need to stop leading people to hell where wide is the road and the road to Heaven is narrow and few it says choose it. Judge me anyway you want my judge stands beside me in judgement of your false teachings. God will never be swayed to accept homosexuality as ok if thats what you want. Professing themselves to be wise they become fools! God sees you as a fool! Like it or not!
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janet demar
Ray please get help you are becoming a sorry excuse of a human being mind your own business
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Carol
Ray, you are correct. What some of the people on this blog are doing is what is simply known as propaganda. Joseph Goebels was a master at it. He is famously quoted as saying, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it..." Now some - maybe all - of the people spewing those lies won't even know who Joseph Goebels is (or was). They refuse to believe in what the Word teaches and certainly have no interest in what history teaches - only what they preach. In the end, their numbers are small and represent only a tiny percentage of our population. WE won't be swayed; we have the Word; we have faith.
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Brother Cody
To all of the ministers that are preaching hate, listen up. God did say that all gays will go to hell and will never see the kingdom of heaven this is true and I agree with yall, I sat in on a sermon one Sunday at a local church and the minister there brought up good points that we should instead of preaching hate and sin sin sin sin sin sin, instead we should preach love. Is that not what Jesus taught his brothers to teach? is that not what God so clearly says in his book? You cant read the word hate my friend and not read the other words of love that are also in the book. Gay people are not evil by no means what so ever, yes what they do is a sin but we are to love our brother as Ourself, When you preach to people that God hates you that shows them only that they see a mean and unforgiving god.. instead show that he loves them and he sent his only son to die for them, you must understand that love is won with love not hate my friends. Remember that God is in control, and nothing I nor you can do can change what anyone does in this world only he can.. but if I can change one thing it would be your decision to be mean to gays because they are not gays they are people and they deserve love just as you. Jesus says every child of his fathers is equal and shall enter the kingdom of heaven if he repents.. god bless you all...
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Robert
I have read just about every post on here and no one has look at the big picture. The whole reason LGBT communities want same sex marriage is not a religious thing. It's for taxes, estate planning, social security, etc. Sad thing is we have to make it a religious fight. Take religion out of it and it wouldn't be a problem. I've been to several weddings that did not mention the word God. Weddings and marriage have been going on for thousands of years. Long before Christianity. They have to be looked down upon and talked about, told that there lifestyle is wrong all because of what you think is right. It bothers me that we still live in the "I'm right so if I'm right than everyone else is wrong" mentality world. No matter how open minded we can be We're still right. We as humans will never know what the real truths about the Gods and Goddesses until we meet up with them. So whether your Christian or Pagan or Wiccan or whatever. Lets try to keep an open mind. No one is saying to let go of your faith and belief but you can have that and also have respect for others as well. Love and Compassion
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Carol
Sorry Robert. I can't agree wholly that it's for taxes, etc. If you read all the posts you will have read my post asking why the legal things you speak of can't be solved by legal means. There are Power of Attorney privileges for medical issues, Agreements with respect to co-owned business, Wills, Irrevocable trusts or other legal means. Attorneys love this stuff.
But, I enter a more somber and threatening note here other than a subjective argument that will never get solved. I say 'never get solved' because people make their decisions 90% of the time based on emotion, as evidenced here in this blog. Some cite bibical teaching against homosexual pairings; others refute it with their own philosophical understandings.
There are Islamist forces that are of great consequence to our lives (never mind our love lives) that are insidiously making their presence known in this country. We all would do well to spend our energies trying to stave off efforts to compel our government allow sharia law to be practiced in this country rather than fighting to be allowed to marry another man/woman. I'm sure you're aware that Sharia Law pertains to many things not the least of which is homosexual behavior. There are approximately 2.5 million Muslims in this country and growing steadily because of their unchecked reproduction rate.
I am heterosexual and considered an Infidel because I don't adhere to Islam; I guarantee you that Homosexuals won't have to worry about heterosexual Americans threatening to beat them up or not being allowed to marry whomever they wish if Sharia Law is allowed to gain a foothold here.
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Chuck Ellenberger
Amen Robert, essentually what I said in another thread at the beginning of this subject.
Well said!
Chuck
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Janet DeMar
WAKE UP WE ARE ALL GODS CHILDREN WILL YOU PLEASE WAKE UP AND STOP YOUR OWN THOUGHTS ON WHAT GOD SAID YOU NEVER SPOKE TO HIM PERSONALLY GET A GRIP REPENT YOR IGNORANCE
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Carol
I do not hate homosexuals and if you did read all the posts you would've seen that many of us believe the same. No one denies your right to love.
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victoriarose217
Speaking as someone whom is LGBTQ (I'm both lesbian, and transsexual - don't "over-think it...just go with it), I oftentimes find it heartbreaking that should I ever be blessed with the proper lady to marry, I would like to simply be able for us to walk down the street, and people see us sharing a tender little kiss and say, "Look at that sweet couple!", rather than, "Look at those "Godless sinners!".
Folks? I couldn't care less which side you happen to agree with on this issue - liberal, moderate, or conservative - facts are still facts. We (the LGBTQ community), are no more, or less human than anybody else. If people yell at us, or say hurtful things to us, we cry bitter tears. If people strike us, we bruise, and we break. If we're cut, it's blood that emits from our wounds - not poison. And besides, I'd like for people to take a moment to think about something.......
If "God", (in whichever form that you worship "Him" in) - the same "God" that supposedly had the powers to create all of creation as we know it - the same "God" that wiped out humanity with a great flood - if this higher being...this higher intelligence has the power and ability to do all of that, and "He" has the power and ability to either allow something to happen, or keep it from ever happening in the first place, then dontcha kinda think that maybe this same "God" would have stopped any and all LGBTQ's in our tracks before we were even born - myself included??? Think about it.....it's a rather "deep" subject, isn't it?!
We cannot help the way that we are, folks. For all you heterosexual (straight identified) couples out there, you're a man, and a woman that (hopefully!) deeply, and passionately love each other, and are "in love" with each other. Way to go! :-)
Well, there are lesbian and gay couples in the world, that share that same deep, heartfelt bond of love. We only want the same right to marry as any "straight" couple - not "special rights" to be able to marry. And you know something....I really don't believe that's a whole lot to ask for in the overall scheme of things.
Peace to you and yours.....
Rose Llewellyn
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chris
rose I believe in your right to love who you want but I also believe that in gods eyes homosexual relations are an abomination and a perversion. just because you want something doesn't make it ok. a rapist wants to rape, a child molester wants a child and because you want to lay with the same sex you want the world to be ok with it. I'm sorry but god destroyed sodom and gamorrah for the perversions that were there.
Genesis chapter 19 records the two angels, disguised as human men, visiting Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot met the angels in the city square and urged them to stay at his house. The angels agreed. The Bible then informs us, "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom — both young and old — surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.'" The angels then proceed to blind all the men of Sodom and Gomorrah and urge Lot and his family to flee from the cities to escape the wrath that God was about to deliver. Lot and his family flee the city, and then "the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah — from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities..."
In light of the passage, the most common response to the question "What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?" is that it was homosexuality. That is how the term "sodomy" came to be used to refer to anal sex between two men, whether consensual or forced. Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual gang rape on the two angels (who were disguised as men). At the same time, it is not biblical to say that homosexuality was the exclusive reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were definitely not exclusive in terms of the sins in which they indulged.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html#ixzz3di5EjcWV
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Janet DeMar
DONT continue to spread your hate the people have spoken Chris find some needy people it will keep you from thinking you have talked to God personally
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Rick
I have news. The population of people, even "Christians" who think like that is very small. Sort of like the LGBTQ community, they seem to be everywhere, even though their numbers are small, because they are so damned loud. Even my very right wing, very Christian parents who are in their late 70s don't think like that. And next time someone says something crappy to you, tell them a very mild-mannered Buddhist said they're going to hell for the same sin as Sodom and her sister were destroyed. That sin was lack of caring for others, not homosexuality. I'm Buddhist now but I used to be an altar boy then a deacon. I know the Bible and the sin of judging others (whether you're in the majority or the minority) is the one that incurs judgment on one's soul. Whether someone's living a sinful life is between them and God. We all sin daily (according to most religious texts) and that's why Jesus said, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone." Casting that stone is a mortal sin. Plus, who doesn't love the gay pride parade? It's a BLAST!!! Peace be with you. ?
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victoriarose217
Thank you, Rick! VERY well said, indeed, Sir!
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Carol
Rick Just as an aside and truly I don't mean to be snide. But seriously. It used to be just LGBT - now "Q" has been tacked on the end? How many more letters are going to be added to the LGBTQ category?
Anyway, there is a more secular reason for not legalizing gay marriage nationwide. It destroys the institution of marriage. Wherever it has been legalized, out of wedlock births increased triplefold. I refer you to my older post from June 4. The basic question is "what is the need for legalized marriage if not for procreation?" You will say for legal reasons. I will say I don't think it's a valid reason. Contracts in the heterosexual world are broken all the time; how would SSM prevent that. Powers of Attorney declarations can avoid the medical questions. Attorneys live for this stuff.
And, by the way, the gay pride parade is what most people believe to be very distasteful. In the end, it doesn't gain the community a swelling of respect.
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Rick
OH, I didn't say I thought it gained anything for them. Quite honestly I thought it looked asinine until I was a "stand-in" boyfriend for a gay friend of mine once and it was a blast. As I did some research - because I don't really know all that much about the alphabet soup title either - I found out that it can be LGBT, LGBTQ, or even LGBTQA (lesbian/gay/bi/transexual or transgender/Queer or genderQueer/Asexual or Ally)... So the LGBTQA could include people who are completely straight. I'm all in favor of inclusiveness.
I find it hard to believe that letting members of that group get married could push out of wedlock births higher than it is in some communities, with non-hispanic blacks being at 72.2% as is... And I think part of the trend might be coincidental and cultural in other ways. As more people are "supportive" of single mothers and show pity to them, the more there seem to be. No more "shotgun weddings" that generally never worked anyway, and after all, welfare and the state take care of people who make poor decisions. Heck, that's part of our problem in America, isn't it? I think it's just as probable that the permissive attitude that says, "you don't have to be married to have a baby - we'll support you and give you money" could be prevalent in areas that are also in agreement with gay marriage but I don't see a causal effect between gay marriage and unwed births.
As far as legal reasons -- It's not about forcing someone INTO an obligation, it's about two people who are in love, living together exclusively, frequently raising children together, not being able to share the same common rights as straight people who are married are entitled to. It can and does cause problems. I assume that you would agree that adoptive parents (in general) are a good thing. I have known several gay couples that were absolutely the best kind of parents. Yet in instances where they can't be married, frequently only one of the parents has legal custody of the child, so if something happens to that parent, the child is again a ward of the state, instead of reasonably staying with the remaining person they see as a parent. If you don't think that's unfair to the child, then you're just being intentionally obtuse.
There are other examples (like in death of a would-be spouse and necessary transfer of ownership, etc.) that are just not right and the one thing that would make it right is allowing those two committed, loving people to legally marry. Marriage has been around since long before Christianity and is not exclusively a Christian thing. In some countries "marriage" is just what it always has been. A commitment between two people to work together through the struggles of life. What is more beautiful or sacred than that promise between two people who are pure of intention?
May your path be well lit and free of stones. :)
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Carol
Where do I begin.
I think there should be a BSSS tacked on to the LGB thing: born-straight-staying-straight. Silly, I know, but the whole category is silly. If gay people are content with who they are why do they need to identify with a group especially when the some of the members are totally bizarre. I'm convinced that many gays would not like to identify with them. I have gay friends who have been in a committed relationship for more than 30 years and I know they wouldn't identify with them.
BTW, inclusiveness is such a 21st century term just to make people sound like they really care. I'm inclusive too, though; I'm part of the female category.
I didn't derive the statistics on out of wedlock births. I did a little research and that was part of the outcome. However, I do agree that there is a trend in the U.S. that is frightening and has eternal implications in my opinion. It's an anything-goes kind of mindset. If I want to have a baby out of wedlock that's what I'm gonna do and in some cases YOU'RE going to pay for it. And the future and everyone else be damned. There doesn't seem to be any sense of UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES or taking resonsibility for ones actions.
I will cut and paste my post of June 4 to further illustrate the more secular view on SSM:
“Granting civil union status or, worse, marriage to homosexual unions will ultimately weaken marriage for everyone. The introduction of same-sex registered partnerships in Scandinavia has coincided with a sharp rise in out-of-wedlock births. Granting gay marriage or its functional equivalent has not helped marriage in these countries; it has made marriage increasingly superfluous. When eroticism is perceived as merely “more intimacy” rather than as a means to a “one-flesh” reintegration with a sexual other into a sexual whole, when the only requisite for sexual unions is commitment and fidelity (and a truncated definition of commitment and fidelity at that), when “lifelong” becomes “long-term” and “long-term” is thought of as a 5-10 year-union, when even the concept of “serial monogamy” is called into question by the high incidence of “open relationships” among male homosexual unions, when sexual unions are once and for all severed in society’s perception from a commitment to have and raise children, and when society rejects as bigotry the notion that a mother and father are both needed for the optimal development of children–when all these elements are in place, consistent with the pro-homosex agenda, the general public will cease to value marriage as a special and even sacred institution. “The profanation of marriage” will have gone full circle–both its secularization and debasement. Imagine society granting marriage licenses to any union that met the conditions of a committed friendship and ask yourself how long marriage can survive as an institution.” Rick, that is areality unless you're be intentionally mulish.
Your point of gay couples being the best kind of parents. Their intentions are no doubt sincere. However, there is only ONE kind of relationship with a mother and a daughter. Raising a child in this society with both sexes is one of the most difficult jobs one can have. It can't be anything but totally confusing to have two mothers or two fathers. Nothing obtuse about that.
The legal argument always seems to rear its ugly head. Legalities of ANY relationship can be fraught with complications. It applies to heterosexual and homosexual unions and I don't think worthy of argument. SSM is NOT going to prevent it. I repeat myself: attorneys love this stuff.
Lastly, Rick. I hear the soulful sentiments in your statements. It's all about feelings for you, isn't it: "It's a blast" standing in for a gay friend; watching the gay parade is a blast (if you think individuals making total freaks of themselves is a blast); "what could be more beautiful or sacred than that promise between two people who are pure of intention?" It's all about the moment, right? Live in the present and all that, right? Most Americans are reactionary. We will try to fix something once it happens but won't think ahead to try to avoid problems. Well, intentions change and that's what this is all about in the end.
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Carol
Rose,
You gave a very heartfelt explanation of your position. I found myself thinking what a sensitive person she appears to be. But when you got into the "If God..." speech, I drew back. That is not a valid argument for who you are. God also created evil people who abuse children, horrific diseases and any number of unspeakable things in this life that both homosexuals and heterosexuals have to deal with. He also created Satan who is there to tempt us (all of us) and to resist that temptation is a way to show love and respect for God's teachings. But that may be the deep subject you speak of. It is, indeed, a spiritual conundrum. Clearly, that is not where you are.
I am at a loss as to why you think SSM is so essential to your ultimate happiness. There are huge numbers of heterosexual couples that haven't availed themselves of the right to marry. The statitistics show there are already many gay and lesbian marriages. There are about 390,000 same-sex marriages in the United States. Thirty-three or 34 states allow ssm. About four in every 10 same-sex couples are married. There are 1.2 million adults living in a same-sex domestic partnership. Roughly 183,000 same-sex couple are living together in states that don't allow SSM. Statistics also show that the majority of those marriages or partnerships don't make the 10 year mark. Granted, many of heterosexual marriages are demonstrating the same results. I ask. Why this "right to marry as any straight couple" mantra? Will having that status prevent hateful people mocking you and yours?
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victoriarose217
First of all, Carol, I wasn't slamming anybody's "God", or anything like that. I actually don't believe in the Abrahamic "God" that most do (I worship the Feminine Divine), nor do I believe in the metaphorical "hell", or "Satan", that many do. At one time I did - back when I was a Pentecostal minister. What I now believe is that we go through "hell" while we're alive....at least I know that I have. I certainly respect those who do still believe in the Christian perspective....but it's just not who "I" am.
As far as why same sexy marriage is so important to me, and to my wellbeing, it's quite simple.
When other people say that I don't have the legal right to marry the woman that I love because we're LGBTQ's, and then they try to throw the Bible in our faces, and try to pass laws to keep us from being united as a married couple, then that's saying that we're a lower class of people - that we don't deserve the same rights as everyone else. We're being marginalized in the name of religious belief. I want that to stop, and for people to understand that #1: We're just as human as anybody else. 2: We deserve the same rights as everyone else - including the right to wed whom we wish - gender and/or sexual identity/preference aside.
And while your point is very true about there already being many same gender marriages in the US, there are still many LGBTQ couples living in places where it's still illegal for them to wed. That needs to stop.
Peace to you.
Rose
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Carol
Rose, Thank you for the first comment I think I've read here that actually makes the point that gays simply want to be viewed as "normal." I may not agree with it, but I get it. it's a principle thing. I understand your position. You are who you are; I respect that.
But here are questions I asked before. Do you think heterosexuals will accept you more readily if SSM is approved nationwide? Someone else said that they were mocked and ridiculed and perhaps attacked violently. Will SSM avoid that? Is it any cheaper for a heterosexual couple to seek legal advice than a gay person? I think not. Unfortunately, I don't think in reality it will avoid hateful people doing hateful things nor will it give you the status you seek. People will have to change not just laws.
My argument against SSM is a secular argument; that it will eventually destroy the institution of marriage. Here is my June 4 posting.
“Granting civil union status or, worse, marriage to homosexual unions will ultimately weaken marriage for everyone. The introduction of same-sex registered partnerships in Scandinavia has coincided with a sharp rise in out-of-wedlock births. Granting gay marriage or its functional equivalent has not helped marriage in these countries; it has made marriage increasingly superfluous. When eroticism is perceived as merely “more intimacy” rather than as a means to a “one-flesh” reintegration with a sexual other into a sexual whole, when the only requisite for sexual unions is commitment and fidelity (and a truncated definition of commitment and fidelity at that), when “lifelong” becomes “long-term” and “long-term” is thought of as a 5-10 year-union, when even the concept of “serial monogamy” is called into question by the high incidence of “open relationships” among male homosexual unions, when sexual unions are once and for all severed in society’s perception from a commitment to have and raise children, and when society rejects as bigotry the notion that a mother and father are both needed for the optimal development of children–when all these elements are in place, consistent with the pro-homosexual agenda, the general public will cease to value marriage as a special and even sacred institution. “The profanation of marriage” will have gone full circle–in both its secularization and debasement. Imagine society granting marriage licenses to any union that met the conditions of a committed friendship and ask yourself how long marriage can survive as an institution.”
Marriage as an opposite gender event is a millenial old tradition. I look at the long term implications if that changes, even as I appreciate and respect your rights as I would any human being; as a thinking, hurting, loving person.
Having said that ALL that, I think in the long run the SCOTUS will rule in favor.
Carol
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Janet DeMar
Carol have had enough of you hate posted for gay PEOPLE GODS CHILDREN REPENT WOMAN I HAVE HAD TO READ YOUR HATE FOR DAYS PRAY TONNIGHT I WILLPRAY FOR YOU FOR THE FIRES OF HELL AWAIT YOUR KIND OF THINKING
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Chuck Ellenberger
Well said Rose,
Unlike what a few people here voiced, that if we want the protections the LGBTQ community can have the same rights with living wills and other legal documents that they get just by saying "I do" it's not true.
First it costs a lot of money and time to just get close to their rights, second it doesn't always work if the judge is in a bad mood, third a hospital or hospice can legally keep you out because 'You're not legally family, etc.
The fight never has been about Marriage but equal rights and protections for our loved ones! I for one don't care if it's called marriage or cat and dog so long as my loved one is protected and I can take care of him!
I'm a veteran and served proudly, however this is a slap in the face to all vets to reject an entire class of people just because religion says so. It's not a religious issue in the end but an issue of human rights.
God bless you all,
Chuck
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chris
While I do believe you are entitled to love who you choose to I do not except gay marriage as ok in the eyes of our lord it was made to be between a man and a woman. there is no Adam and Steve, it was Adam and Eve. If it was two men or two woman in the garden of eden none of us would be here. I am not against civil union for the gay community but marriage is sacred in the eyes of our lord and should not be allowed because you choose to live in sin. If we are going to change this part of the bible why stop there we can do what we want as long as the courts say its ok. love who you want god gives us a choice to do what we want to but in those choices we may go to heaven or hell.
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chris
Genesis chapter 19 records the two angels, disguised as human men, visiting Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot met the angels in the city square and urged them to stay at his house. The angels agreed. The Bible then informs us, "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom — both young and old — surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.'" The angels then proceed to blind all the men of Sodom and Gomorrah and urge Lot and his family to flee from the cities to escape the wrath that God was about to deliver. Lot and his family flee the city, and then "the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah — from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities..."
In light of the passage, the most common response to the question "What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?" is that it was homosexuality. That is how the term "sodomy" came to be used to refer to anal sex between two men, whether consensual or forced. Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual gang rape on the two angels (who were disguised as men). At the same time, it is not biblical to say that homosexuality was the exclusive reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were definitely not exclusive in terms of the sins in which they indulged.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html#ixzz3di5EjcWV
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Rick
Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
It could be that the homosexual group sex was a sign that the cities had become corrupt. However, when their sins are ENUMERATED in Ezekiel, that is not what's mentioned. It is their lack of caring for others. Any "meanings" gleaned from Bible passages are questionable because "no man knows the mind of God" and the bible has so many linguistic translations. There are meanings too, that don't translate well from language to language and era to era.
What it comes down to is whether you go with the possibly implied reason in Genesis or the Directly stated reason for the destruction as stated in Ezekiel.
And actually, sodomy is just non-vaginal sex (oral/anal) between people OR other animals. And, given the biblically-based rationale against contraception and masturbation, hetero oral sex is a sin that we can be struck down for as well. But I'm guessing most people don't look into that very much since it's not convenient at all for their personal lives.
May your path be well lit and free of stones.
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Kathleen Baird
What this "Good Christian" quoted from the Genesis account of the destruction of the Bible is interesting in it's exclusions. First, translations vary, but what I read was "bring them out that we may know them. Next, that "good & righteous man", who was saved when all the sinners were destroyed, came to the door and announced that he had two virgin daughters who have not known man, and told the mob to take them and do with them as you will, just go away from my door. THIS is the kind of rightousness that should be praised? Since I was raised Christian, (baptized, confirmed, sang in the choir, etc.) reading this, in my search for why I felt a lack in my Faith, instantly crystallized my feeling that women are lesser beings in Christianity. I begin to read, to study, to search for a Faith that valued ALL people equally. I found the Old Religion with my heart AND my head, and the Law of "And it harm none, do what you will" covered everything. (Jesus said "Do unto others as you would be done by".) Wicca says kindness and tolerance are virtues and hurting people is a sin. Jesus, in the New Testament says NOTHING about homosexuality. He DOES condemn divorce 5 times. Modern life has taken the attitude that divorce is acceptable, but too many look at the Old Testament for a reason to hate LGBTs. The Old Testament has many unacceptable, punishable by death, outmoded, rules. If you are truly a "Christian", concentrate on the New Testament, not the Old. As a practicing Wiccan for more than 40 years, I feel that all faiths that make you a better person are valid. (Wiccans do not try to convert anyone and do not claim to have the "One True Path".) Most people try but know they cannot follow ALL the rules of their faith. It would be a better idea if they do not choose to follow a path of self-rightousness and hatred.
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kevin
that is illitacay of which even God never recognised why did God create male and femele ?
The world is rejecting bigotry and discriminatory practices, and recognizing equal rights for all. We still have a ways to go, but progress is progress.
equal is fine as long as it is not lowest common denominator equality
marriage is a spiritual bonding. as such is not under regulation legally by any government agency. so it is unlawful for any government agency to deny the people these rights.. I believe the opponents are insurance corporations. they seem to manipulate our government against the people
Marriage is a Tradition not a spiritual bonding .Traditions are passed down from generation to generations .An inherited established or customary pattern of thought , action and behavior (as a religious practice or social custom ) . My point being it is not traditional for same sex to quote get " Married " ..Same sex people should come up with their own traditions . Something like " Hitched or tied or bonded ."
Actually, the GLBT community tried to have their own "marriage" years ago calling it "civil unions" or "domestic partnerships". Our government, however, watered down the legalities of these as to make them nothing more than a useless piece of paper. The GLBT community was forced to seek the term "marriage" so the government would be forced to give GLBT the same rights as straights have.
That was an ignorant comment. You cannot determine for everyone whether Marriage is a tradition or a spiritual bonding. Equality means people can choose "traditional" or non-traditional matrimonial ceremonies. It's their choice, like you have your own choices.
Charles you should be ashamed to have posted your comment you are a bigot and hater repent our the kingdom of heaven will be lost to you.
I might agree with your sort of straight-centric philosophy, except that we're talking about a legal status here, not just inviting someone over for Thanksgiving. And under the law, gays have the RIGHT to the pursuit of happiness and the RIGHT to equity under the law unless and until their RIGHTS step on yours. Same-sex couples being legally married in no way infringes on your right to the pursuit of happiness or equal treatment under the law, so you have no standing except your own particular bias. I suggest that if you feel it minimizes your marriage, you take a closer look at your marriage or your beliefs, because one of the two might not be quite right. Surely even you can see the similarity between this and "Separate but equal is NOT equal"... yes? This is the same attitude that kept segregation of blacks in place for quite some time.
Love that " rob" is making such a bigoted comment and not even getting the name right ? it's LGBT so if you're going to hate on people trying to get HUMAN RIGHTS! Then atleast know who you're hating Rob ? homophobe.
Look no further for a lowest denominator than what opposite-sex marriage has done to undermine the institution.
Michael Bryant
This whole thing reminds me of the child hood story " The Emperors New Clothes " Today the Emperor in our world is Public opinion fueled by the poplar media.
Same sex marriage is the Emperor's new suit of clothes , that is being brought out before all of us to marvel at and bow down before .
Traditional marriage was instituted by God and has carried society for thousands of years now .
I am a common sense person . I have a decent education . I know that there have always been Male and Female and that they work well together and even continue on thru what Science calls reproductive biology .
I am sure that the New Emperor has NO clothes and that does not make me a bigot or a hater , just a normal person with common sense .
Michael Bryant Minister ULC
One person's "common sense" is another's "bigotry".
What you do within your ministry has no bearing on the rest of us in ours, nor in civil society. Oh, and the concept of "marriage" predates the concept of your "God". And now you know...
I assure you I am not "bowing down" or standing in awe of same-sex marriage. I just don't think it's right to deny a legal status to someone because of who they sleep with. Think about it. Try saying it like this and see how it sounds.... "He's not allowed to go into a library because he's a virgin." or "She can't get a driver's license because her husband is ugly." They are the SAME THING! Disallowing someone else in society the right to be happy based on who they are or aren't having sex with is crazy! And, quite honestly, it's none of our business who anyone is sleeping with unless we are also intimate with that person. It's tasteless and childish, in my opinion, to be so concerned about someone else's sexual activities.
So true!
i can't believe you get that i hate out of anything i said, far from it go back and read just because i follow Gods Word and you don't i am a hater? Wow you must be Democrats ! And honestly you don't know your Bibles to your disgrace! Just like the world you stray from Truth!
Hang in there Ray. Those that spit vile words like "Hater" out versus speaking in reason and truth are the one's that can look in the mirror and see sunshine when in truth they most often are the one's mired in hate when the facade is uncovered. This is NOT a "Christian" (as in follows Christs work) site, so do not expect much. Christ taught us to love all and that should and can be a very easy thing to do but he did not accept changing Gods definition of marriage as many choose to do as they have decided long ago they supersede his design. In my natural health practice, you can't even discuss natural facts on homosexuality much less Gods design on marriage. Bottom line is people want what they want and when that's in treat, they very weakly belittle everything that isn't them. There are millions upon millions like you that love everyone equally just as you should yet firmly believe just like procreation being between a man and a woman, such is marriage. The last 8 years (including hugely growing racism from the top down and dangerously poor economy) is just been a prelude to whats to come in 2016. Time for the end? Nooooo...thats just getting started. Just keep an eye on Europe. We still haven't got it yet and continue to follow them off the cliffs socially while they start to get eaten up by spiritual radicals that will not accept "equality" in every respect. We need to just let people be, love them and quit forcing everything down everyone else's throat that disagrees with them.
i am going to sign off with this Stephen was stoned to death because he stood for the Truth of the Word of God and it wasn't what the people wanted to hear John the Baptist had his head cut off because he preached Truth but it was not what the people wanted to hear Paul was stoned twice and left for dead, 6 times he received 39 stripes because he stood firm on the Word of God but it wasn't what the people wanted to hear Jesus Christ was Crucified because He stood for the Truth of His Word but it wasn't what the people wanted to hear. today as then if you stand for truth it's not popular even in the so called Christians who show their weakness by accepting things that are wrong. So call me a racists call me a hater call me a bigot call me whatever you want I stand FIRM on the Word of God so i like the company i am following. And believe it or not i stand for Love but not at accepting the things Jesus said were wrong! I am the same yesterday today and forever i NEVER change! "Study to show thyself approved unto God a workmen who needth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the Word of Truth"!
Ray, I stand with you on the Word of God, Yes the Bible teaches us to love one for another this comes from the Word of God, I as a Christian do not hate the gay this would be against God's teaching however, the Bible says that it is an abomination before God for us to choose this lifestyle. Those who choose this lifestyle will answer to God. Churches that promote this are wrong and leading their followers straight to hell. It is up to us to teach the Bible not our thinking of right or wrong but what the Bible says is right or wrong. I have to love everyone according to the Bible however I hate their ways. This is the end times and the Bible is being fulfilled. Just remember prayer changes things. This nation is in trouble because Christians have quit praying like they should and bringing their children up with Christian values. You don't have to agree with me and I'm sure I will be criticized and that's ok God gave you a dangerous gift. THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE it is your choice to do right or wrong. Use it wisely
I am amazed at the number of people that side with the norm just because it is easy. RAY you and I know that judgment is close at hand and although the world has made it easy for the anti christ to walk in and take over GOD will have the upper hand with one swoop AMEN
Ray, it isn't only the "truth" (if you insist that that is what you are speaking) that people don't want to hear and hate to hear because they also don't want to hear lies and hate hearing them! That is why they protest and demonstrate at KKK or Nazi Party gatherings, even though the Klansmen and Nazis think, as you do, that they are speaking the "truth", too, and can't understand, the same as you can't, why people don't want to hear their "truth" and hate them for telling it. So, you should consider that that is the real reason why so many people don't want to hear what you and other so-called "Christian" homophobes have to say, either, and hate you for saying it!
It isn't the "Christian" institution of marriage that is the subject here, but rather the legal institution of marriage. While most Christians seem to assume they invented the idea, the fact is that marriage is a concept found around the world in nearly every belief system. We have separation of church and state precisely because not everyone is Christian or even religious.
If your beliefs are against two men forming a holy union, then I back you 100% - the government has no right to tell you what to believe, or say that you have to recognize their union as blessed by your god. However, you also have no right to deny them the benefits of forming a legal union.
You also might want to consider that the concept of marriage Christians have today originated in the 16th century and is NOTHING like what is in the bible. The concept of a union blessed by god included arrangements not acceptable today, some of which were downright evil. For example:
Victim and her rapist (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) Childless widow and her brother-in-law (Deuteronomy 25:5) Soldiers claiming virgin POWs (Numbers 31:15-18) Man, wife and wife's slaves (Genesis 16) Male slave and female slave assigned to him (Exodus 21:4) Man, wife and concubines (Abraham, Solomon, etc) Man and multiple wives (David, Solomon, etc)
With those examples, its really hypocritical claim that you want to deny people with different beliefs the same legal benefits you enjoy because of religion - Especially in America, where people are supposed to have the right to religious freedom. So the next time you want to claim that, ask yourself when was the last time you helped stone a woman the day after her wedding because she wasn't a virgin? (Deuteronomy 22:21)
I agree with you wholeheartedly. A holy marriage is a commitment and, in my heart, should only be entered by a man and a woman. However, as you have so nicely commented, our "marriage" is a legal commitment as well. A civil union is created under the law. I think it is time the law should reflect the reality of same-sex civil unions - with all the legal benefits that are given to heterosexual couples.
God made adam and eve not adam and steve. This is Satan's system of things so, as for me and mine we will put God's law ahead of man's law.
How can you say you follow God's word and right after stress your dislike for Democrats. How can you say what kind of person someone is because they are Democrat. You are judging people because of their political decision. That my friend is not someone who follows God's word. Perhaps you need to know more of your Bible.
By Biblical reference, 2 things clearly forbidden are:
1) Murder, which kind of describes 3rd Trimester Abortions 2) Homo Sexuality...
Both are heavily supported by the Democratic Party...
once again you miss quote me i asked if they were a Democrat only because most Democrats are Liberals and Liberals do not follow the Word of God so stop miss quoting me. And i love them as all men and pray for their conversions as well as yours!
One thing that will cause you to be judged, even if you think you have accepted Christ -- Judging others. "With what measure you judge your neighbor, by the same measure shall you be judged." Being judged is what sends a person to hell, since everyone sins. The bible speaks repeatedly and very seriously on the matter of judging others. Those sins are no worse than other sins. Sin is sin and it is not for us to judge.
Hey ray I am considered a democrat by my friends, but on this subject I am not a " liberal". I do not oppose marriage equality on biblical reason, but I could. Rather I oppose it because the gates will be flung wide open on the question of whom and what is marriage. Will the lgbt group abandon their "b" friends. Will half siblings be denied marriage? Couldn't really love each other, and with modern science they could control genetic birth defects, etc. finally, the lgbt group claims they were born with the " condition"-- well if one researches the data one will find zero conclusive evidence. It doesn't matter what some professional group says if the proof-- real organic proof- is not there. No proof brothers and sisters, no cell test, blood test, semen, test, tissue smle, gene test. Please don't use the argument of strong " indications", so in conclusion Roy you are not a hater.
You certainly are speaking for "the west", because recognizing "equality/homosexuality" as a right is not exactly the case for about 4 Billion people on the planet. Abortion is a so called "right" staying away from how you justify that, does not make it right in the eyes of those that cherish life differently and at different stages of procreation. Progress? Rather subjective now isn't it? Keep in mind that many are exercising their "rights" from China (South China Sea) to Russia (Ukraine) and from ISIS (Everyone) to Africa believing full well in those rights while countless suffer and others profit. Who gave you the "right" to define a "right". What is the genesis of a "right".? Man???? Please..... God was because man murdered what was believed to be their rights. Christ was progress beyond anything anyone can do here or say. Complete acceptance of the person or persons, including those things done wrong, but not accepting changing what is wrong to what is right by selfish reasoning.
I just don't get why this is such a big deal. Same sex marriage is legal here in Canada, and we are still the true North, Strong and Free!
God meant for marriage to be between male & female. No exceptions!!
You do not have the right to judge other peoples rights . If you believe in God you should be ashamed for your comment .You are not in your right mind and I hope you are not a Minister
Hugh Roberts you will be judged by God you really should get some help with your issues hate is a sick evil part of your makeup the devil has taken control with your hateful comments.
Janet, Search and examine YOUR need to accuse someone else of hate. "first get the beam of timber out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the tiny particle out of your brother’s eye."
Apparently, you have never read the Sermon on the Mount. Does God speak directly to you? How dare you hate in the holy name of God!!!!! This is certainly an abomination before him: To hate in his holy name. You need much prayer, brother.
I hate to break it to you, Hugh, but you're wrong. Oh, and God asked me to tell you he'd very much appreciate it if you would cease presuming to speak for Him...He doesn't like that you pervery His message.
Joe I hate to break this to you , lets forget God for a minute since you obviously discount the bible and traditional values .
Lets talk about biology , science , mechanics , even electricity .
Everything in nature and the working world has a male and female . Try plugging in two radios with just the plugs and not the sockets . Try putting two sockets together .
Try as two men alone having a baby without a surrogate or a test tube .... need I go on ???
Now if you are a starfish , I stand corrected .
Marriage was meant to further the human race even if you dont believe in God and is meant to be between a man and a woman.
People that believe in this are educated and normal . Not bigots or haters
People who hold this rainbow view are kidding themselves and not living in the real world .
Sorry....
Sincerely,
MR. Common Sense
Mr common sense you don't belong in America the people have spoken if you don't like it leave I will send you a ticket to a country far away that has no rights that you can try to control with your thoughts and foolishness
What people have spoken Janet ???
Are we taking about the supreme court ( the whole 5 of them that agree with you ??)
In California a few years back they put this matter to a popular vote . They brought out all the big names in the media , Hollywood , sports , and Government . Even Obama was weighing in on the side of the Gay community at that time and with all that prop 8 still won by over 10 percent .
So here in California , one of the most liberal states in the union , The majority of people used their Common sense and voted to keep traditional values .
So now you are telling me and all of the rest of us we should leave the country , because 5 people , who are appointed ( not elected ) Say the rest of us are wrong minded .
I am sorry but I wont be needing that ticket unless those same 5 people decide that the law also says I need to watch what I believe in my heart to be right and true and also must keep my mouth shut in public as well .
This is still a free country today, that is and all of us have a right to an opinion .
Sorry , but we will need to agree to disagree on this matter Janet
Well said, Michael. Not to mention the fact that 2 of them should have recused themselves because they had officiated at a gay wedding in the past.
Mike and Carol I did not offer you a ticket I did to Mr. common sense but have the funds to send the both of you too Stop being such a hater of people that are not like you. I pray you see the light or are you questioning your own choice of sexual partners will always be here to help you and by the way I am a tea party republican so go figure so sorry I hit a nerve Happy fourth of july
Hugh, look how these people attack you just for stating what you believe. Such arrogant and unwarranted attacks. It's really unfortunate...
People have the right to state what they believe, and if others find those beliefs abhorrent, they are just as free to say so. I've never heard of conservatives being beaten and killed by gays for expressing who they are, though I know plenty of gay people, myself included, that have been beaten by conservatives for being who they are, so I'm not persuaded by anyone with a victim complex even though they are sitting high up safely in society.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but I know you know their actions are not representative of all conservatives. Unwarranted attacks, whether they are physical, verbal, or otherwise, only serve to increase the animosity between people of opposing worldviews.
Joseph you obviously don't get out much ... People are dying and being persecuted in many parts of the world for their faith in Christ . This has been going on since after Christs death and resurrection.
Have you actually ever done any study on this matter ???
Faith In Jesus has cost many people their lives over the centuries , Even before Christ walked this earth .Even in the present day
God's issue with homosexuality and it being wrong goes all the way back to the Old Testament. This isn't something Christians just made up in the last 50 years .
Christians are dying every day for what they believe .
Sorry . Do some research in history from the past as well as modern day , you will find I am telling truth
To be fair though I have no respect for any one that hurts another for being Gay . We are all people and Jesus Died for all of us . We are are sinners and have no relationship with God without the Blood of Jesus .
We all need to repent at some time in our life and accept God's grace .
Then we go forward in his ways ....
We obviously don't agree you and i but we both are free to believe as we choose .
I will pray you come to see this going forward. Christians arent haters or bigots .
We just dont believe or follow the current popular thought ,
like I said previously on this site NO I DONT SEE THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES. This does not make me a bigot , I just have common sense .
Equal rights for all? Do Bible believing Christians have the "Right" to stand by what they believe the Bible says about marriage? Does it not seem hypocritical that those shouting the loudest for equal rights do not advocate for the 'Rights' of the opposite view? While I sincerely recognize this argument applies to each side of every 'Right' each side must advocate for the others 'Right' to their convictions and not simply label them Biggots or Racist or Discriminatory.
I agree with you , I have an opinion just like yours , i feel I am educated , and have common sense . I am a christian and I am sorry if what I believe offends others ,but supposedly in America we have a right to believe as we feel guided in spiritual matters .
Supposedly the constitution guarantees all of us that right . So those that call us bigots or Haters are really not true Americans I guess.
I think they are the real bigots and haters ... sorry but its true...
The Lord God loves all his people Michael if you preach the real word of God please stop with the calling of people who really know the bible haters and bigots I shall pray for you .But it is time for you to open your eyes the lord shows love to all his people why don't you give that a try. Please repent or seek counseling for we never know when the angels will bring us to be judged God bless you and hope you see the light respectfully Jp DEMar
Leigh, equal rights for all does mean that homophobic and conservative "Christians" do have the right to speak out against gay marriage and homosexuality, but that "equal" part means that gay people have the same right to speak out against your speaking out and call it what it obviously is: bigotry, the same as Nazis have the equal rights to speak against Jews and Klansmen can speak against black people, Catholics, and Jews to their hearts' content, but the Jews, black people, and Catholics get the same right to talk against them. Equal doesn't mean just you get to talk and we have to be quiet or we get to talk and you have to be quiet, but both sides get to talk at the same time and in discussion. I've never noticed conservative and homophobic "Christians" having any trouble making themselves heard, Neither will we any longer! We do advocate for your rights, too, but that is mainly your job, as advocating for our rights is our job. We can't do your job for you anymore than you can or will do our job for us. It is right, however, to call homophobes, the same as Nazis, Klansmen, the Nation of Islam, and all other hate groups and individuals bigots because that is just telling the truth and calling them what they are!
I raised three daughters, not easy as a military man, I ALWAYS told them that if they truly loved someone, gender didn't matter, all that mattered was LOVE, happiness shouldn't depend on what OTHER people think.
From the very beginning of His creation, He made man and then woman to reproduce life. He has not chaged that and niether will I. Being ordained when two people marry to me it will be man to woamn as He intended it to be. He is the final judge of us all and to Him the Creator of all is who we will answer to. People have the right to their own opinions. Yet in the end of it all, His will be the final word and judgment.
If god had intended for things to be that way then I don't think he would have been so clear about this in the Bible. Who are we to change the laws of God I think a lot of people need to sit down and read there bible and under stand why this should not be.
Daron were you there when the bible was written I bet not so stop your stupid comments we are all gods children repent you been brainwashed hope you see the light will pray you do