Houston Public Library's Drag Queen Story Hour has proven to be a step too far in the progressive direction for some conservative religious groups. True to its name, the popular event consists of drag queens dressing up and reading stories to children at the library. But opponents argue the program is "perverting" children's minds and "recklessly promoting LGBT doctrine."
A group of these opponents, calling themselves "Christ-followers," have now filed a lawsuit alleging that the city of Houston is violating their religious freedom by allowing the drag queens to hold events at the public library.
Destigmatizing Drag
Launched last summer in Houston's historic gay enclave of Montrose, the reading events remained largely uncontroversial until recently, when religious activists began showing up to voice their disapproval.
Organizers and supporters of the city-sponsored program insist that it has real benefits for children. First, they point out that it exposes kids to the LGBT community in a fun and education-focused atmosphere. Second, it gives them positive LGBT role models to look up to. And finally, it presents an alternative to traditional gender roles by normalizing gender fluidity.
"Drag queens and children don't usually get together, which I think is a shame and one of the benefits of a program like this," a rainbow-clad drag queen explained to reporters.
A Hidden Agenda?
However, those behind the lawsuit view such explanations as buzzword-heavy manipulations meant to distract from a larger goal: leading children away from the Bible and its traditional teachings. They're demanding a federal judge put a stop to the reading events because they unfairly promote one ideology over others. When asked for clarification, the group pointed out that the library has no competing "man-woman marriage storytelling hour."
The so-called "Christ followers" include Chris Sevier, a local man who is best known for filing a lawsuit demanding the right to marry his laptop in protest of gay marriage. Interestingly, according to court records, another churchgoer backing the lawsuit had a previous husband leave her for a transgender woman.
The Show Must Go On
Despite the legal challenge, the group behind the Drag Queen Story Hour appears resolute and determined to continue their work. And there's plenty of work to be done. Originally created in San Francisco, DQSH now has 40 chapters and has held events in more than 100 cities around the world. A GoFundMe Page has declared a peaceful campaign against its detractors, fending off numerous protests and other organized efforts meant to derail its mission.
"We believe that reading is indeed fundamental, and while DQSH may not be for everyone, we're committed to standing up against hate and censorship one library at a time," the group wrote. Both sides now await the outcome of the lawsuit.
What do you think? Does Drag Queen Story Hour really constitute a violation of religious freedom, or should public libraries be given the freedom to host whatever events they choose?
[Update 10/26]: A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit, ruling that there was "no basis" for the religious group's arguments. One of the plaintiffs, Houston businessman Tex Christopher, told reporters that the fight is not over; he plans to keep pursuing the matter in court.
251 comments
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Secretary3rd
Gee! A picture of a clown. Maybe it is another way to get children to read. They might question why the clown sounds strange, but again if they neither ask about the funny clown looking strange then who cares. One of my books that I have on my shelf is called the Merck Index. What is between the covers is a mystery to most of you and it shall be for ever more. That is a Chemist book of spells. Only the very wise can understand them that is within. My caldron would be empty without that book. What simple minds that do not understand magic telling others to hid their eyes, hands over ears, close your mouth unless the words of wisdom can enter your body.
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Minister Bill
Hum. A different phrasing perhaps but yes, let the children enjoy being read too. Maybe one or more future leaders will potentially awaken.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
How ridiculously stupid and misguided. These “Christ Followers” are perverted monsters. If they were truly “Christ Followers” they would be walking His talk, like ministering to the ill, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, taking care of the poor. Jesus would slap the sh*t out of these hypocrites. There is nothing worse then a bunch of monsters in fake holier than thou robes. The real question is why are they so threatened by people who look different or have different norms than they do? Why do they look outward rather than inward at their true disturbed selves? What are they doing to really make the world a better place? How are they helping those who suffer in the world? The fighting back and forth is silly and just breeds more word bombs and testosterone missiles. I applaud volunteers who spend time reading to children, no matter what they look like. Children are our future. Love and compassion is the answer. Isn't that what some of you consider to be the teachings of YOUR lord and savior?
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John Owens
It is always encouraging when those who hate Christians try to tell Christians how to better follow Christ.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Follow HIS teachings and you well be in his good graces, simple as that. He taught love, not bigotry, not discrimination.
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John Owens
And what makes you think you understand His teachings well enough to judge others, MSW, ADS, OM?
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John Owens
BTW, where have I encouraged bigotry here? Please quote me encouraging bigotry.
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flugo
'cat iron-grip, msw, aids, om, xyz'': Typical of your comments . . . . lopsided!
Christ taught judging, rebuking, discernment. (See: John 7:24; Luke 17:3; Matthew &:6, 15-16, 23:23 among many others.)
Christ is not the 'lovey dovey', everybody equal, embrace diversity, 'namby-pamby', 'if it feels good, do it' person you seem to portray.
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Rev. John D. Partin
flugo, Christ taught "love your enemies and do good to them who hate you and despitefully use you and persecute you, and pray for them, that you may be the children of your Father in Heaven, for he makes his rain to fall on the just and the unjust and makes his sun to shine on the evil and the good" (Matthew 5:44) and "love one another, as I have loved you. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (John 13:34-35). That sounds pretty "lovey dovey", according to your definition of that. Also, if Christ wasn't a schizophrenic and always contradicting Himself, He couldn't have taught judging, rebuking, and "discernment", as you define them, and also taught "Judge not that you be not judged, for with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged, and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again" (Matthew 7:1). The Nazis also believed that Christ wasn't this "namby-pamby, everybody equal, embrace diversity, and lovey dovey guy", the same as you believe (which should cause you great concern to agree with them!!!) and thought that He wasn't even Jewish and was Aryan and anti-Semitic and a great practitioner of judging, rebuking, and "discerning", the same as you do!!! You are judged also by the company that you keep, if judging is right!!! Your and the Nazis view that Jesus wasn't about love, but only about judging, rebuking, and "discerning" is what is actually LOP-SIDED!!!!!
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The Doctor
Unfortunately Catherine You are being trolled by a guy that frequently posts replies to himself over and over to shut down threads. It is best not to engage them over everything and instead call them out when they are blatantly being deceptive such as when Owens tried to claim being called a birther had to do with immigration rather then nutjobs thinking Obama is from Kenya and hates it when he is rightfully compared to fellow lunatics like flat earthers.
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John Owens
No one ever claimed it had to do with immigration. Bwah hah ha ha!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
LOL, LOL, thanks you made my day. T'Keren. He and a few others are such boring, ignorant fools. I like to call BS when I see it. Yes, he is a nutjob no doubt and a few others here are too.You are right, they are not worth our energy. Love your long responses to them, Stephanie trying to present science to them and of course, Carl's incredible and masterful irreverence. Makes an interesting blog.
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John Owens
LOL, LOL. So easy to make your day. Amazing you talk about Stephanie trying to present science, and she has presented NOTHING but opinion based on NOTHING. YOU like to call BS? That's hilarious. Most of the people here don't even know anything but BS, including you.
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Stephanie Willey
John, within this forum I NEVER present opinion, I only ever state facts. And since you are so persistent in you inability, or more likely your unwillingness to find and read the medical science for yourself, here is the first of many studies for your reading pleasure.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5738422/
This one from the US National Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health.
Happy reading
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The Doctor
Johnny Owens you really do not ever bother to read actual scientific research. Methinks you must be one of those that think Genesis 7 is all about real science and men like carl sagan and John Bell are evil speakers of devil tongues or some other insanity.
The fact every time through out these forums that Ive bothered to put links to hard science you never again respond and slink away from the threads because you have been beaten like you likely beat your poor closet lover because you cant come to terms with all the deeply repressed feelings you have.
Its ok man being gay is OK so stop hating the brave souls out there that do what your terrified to do,
But we sane folks here get it, you have been pretty blatant in your views that people that are different then what you consider a good person are sub human. That you dismiss any facts presented that threaten to make you have to take a long hard look at how you where raised.
Because I have great certainty that you were taught to hate the way you do. You go on so frequently about we are only what we learn that you must of been whipped beaten and abused by some evil people that you call mom and dad.
I dont hate you or people like you john, I have contempt for you yes, but also great pity. Because you are a pitiful waste of human potential. And that saddens me.
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John Owens
FINALLY! I shall read it with great relish!
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John Owens
Thank you for providing me with this, Stephanie. Now, you can follow along, and see that what I told you in the beginning is absolutely correct. The following quotations are direct from the web page to which you directed me, with my own evaluations and notes attributed to myself: HEADING: ABSTRACT, 1st line: “Both transgenderism and homosexuality are facets of human biology, BELIEVED to derive from different sexual differentiation of the brain. (Emphasis mine) Me: So, at this point, some scientists BELIEVE there is something different about the brain that causes these variations. HEADING: INTRODUCTION, 1st paragraph, 1st line: “Gender identity and sexual orientation belong to the most interesting facets of human biology. Yet, their underlying mechanisms ARE STILL UNREVEALED.” (Emphasis mine) My question, How do YOU, Stephanie, know the facts, when these people do not? HEADING: INTRODUCTION, 1st paragraph, last line: “Both GD and sexual orientation are BELIEVED to be linked to prenatal and early post-natal sex hormone exposure8–11 leading to a less prominent sexual differentiation of the brain than in cisgender heterosexual individuals12–15. (Emphasis mine) HEADING: INTRODUCTION, 2nd paragraph, 2nd and 3rd lines: “While compelling, these data do NOT account for, NOR EXPLAIN the higher prevalence of bi- and homosexuality among transgender populations3–7.” (Emphasis mine) HEADING: FA and Sexual Orientation 4th statement, under the multi-colored chart: “Thus, the tract-specific analyses SUGGESTED that the non-significant sex differences in FA between the two homosexual groups were mainly explained by relatively increased FA values in HoW. (Emphasis mine) HEADING: DISCUSSION, 3rd paragraph, lines 5-10 : “The IFOF, in particular on the right side, MAY thus be involved in the perception of self (mediated by the mPFC50) and the perception of one’s own body (mediated by the right parietal lobe51,52). Consequently, aberrant FA in the IFOF of transgender individuals MAY be underlying to the unconformity between their perception of self and their body. Importantly, this finding of sex-atypical FA values in the IFOF did not change after accounting for the more heterogeneous sexual orientation among the transgender participants. Moreover, in our recent longitudinal study on testosterone treatment effects in a sub-sample of the TrM described here, we observed increases of FA selectively in the posterior part of the right IFOF, which MAY INDICATE treatment-related improvement of white matter integrity18. (Emphasis mine, of course, and self-explanatory) HEADING: DISCUSSION, 6th paragraph, lines 1-4: “The crucial methodological aspects of the present study were the inclusion of both cis-heterosexual and cis-homosexual control groups, and the use of Kinsey scores as covariate. However, adding scores on the sexual orientation questionnaire as covariate MIGHT NOT BE CONSIDERED A VALID STATISTICAL APPROACH, because the ASSUMPTION of independence between the independent variable, i.e. group, and the covariate is clearly violated in case of our four cisgender groups.” (Emphasis mine) MY POINT: The people doing the study were not confident their methods of using scores on questionnaires would be considered valid because of ASSUMPTION. HEADING: DISCUSSION, last paragraph, 1st line: “In conclusion, the present findings SUPPORT the idea of a distinction and partial overlap between the neurobiology underlying sexual orientation and transgenderism” (Emphasis mine) MY POINT: It does not say PROVE the theory, but support the idea. BIG difference. MY CONCLUSION: It is NOT considered by the scientists who are at the forefront of the research which YOU cite, to be a FACT that people are born homosexual, transgender, or any of that pangender stuff. I would also point out that ALL of this research was performed on adults whose orientation or lack thereof was already ingrained for years before this research was performed, thus influencing their brains well beyond whatever nature gave them before birth. What you postulate as FACT, is, actually, a THEORY in contradiction to the Theory of Evolution, which thus far, remains to be proven.
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Stephanie Willey
I expected you would cherry pick this paper, in the same way you and yours cherry pick the bible to try and make your ridiculous anti-science arguments. I'm comfortable in the science and knowledge that I've studied for decades. I'll leave you to remain comfortable in your willful ignorance. In the end I'm just glad that I don't believe in the vindictive, judgmental, exclusive god that you appear to. Every single argument here and on so many of these pages against the LGBT community is all based in simple homophobia. Homophobia is stupid. Homophobia is a mental illness.
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John Owens
YOU said you only state facts.
Stephanie, I read the paper as a skeptic. You read it as a gullible disciple of some LGBTQ pseudo-science guru. Not my fault you missed all this and made the QUANTUM LEAP in logic to state unequivocally that SCIENCE shows that people are born whatever they grow up to be.
If you would only consider that logically, you would see how insane it is.
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John Owens
T'keren Valmaz, I read and analyzed the research Stephanie cited. I did not contradict the research, but I proved that what Stephanie was not factual, according to the very research she cited. This is not the first time. Some pin-head cited about thirty souces once before, and went through them and proved he was totally wrong. Too many of you just believe this bullshit like an article of faith , and you will not read it with a skeptical eye, nor believe the truth when it is pointed out IN YOUR OWN REFERENCES.
Thus proving, I, John Owens the falsely accused hater, racist, Bible thumper, uneducated person , THAT John Owens, IS MORE rational than you are and has a better understanding of basic science and physical principles than you do.
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Minister Bill
https://www.buzzfeed.com/natashaumer/science-facts-you-might-have-believed-in-the-90s
What will be proved or disproved tomorrow John Owens? You are still quick to judge all other thoughts but your own. Amazing.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Amen, Minister Bill!!! Amen, amen, I say to you!!!
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John Owens
Y'all keep hoping your lies will be proven true. Sounds legit.
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flugo
'stephony will-he': You state in your 12 Nov posting that homophobia is 'stupid' and a 'mental illness'.
According to Websters's dictionary, a meaning of homophobia includes an 'aversion to homosexuality'. According to the dictionary, 'aversion' is not bigotry nor hatred! 'Aversion' implies: a strong desire to avoid; a repugnance; and as noxious.
The practices of the LGBTQXYZ-ers ARE repugnant and noxious. And, normal people would, of consequence, have a strong 'desire to avoid'.
The holy God of the Bible , also, views these activities as repugnant, sinful. It's commendable that many concerned Christians have pity on these mis-fits and counsel them to turn to the loving, forgiving Jesus for deliverance.
If you want to use the labels 'stupid' and 'mental illness', the practices of the LGBTQXYZ-ers certainly qualify!
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Stephanie Willey
Your basic disrespect and personal attack upon me aside (How dare you !!!) I thank you for proving my argument.
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John Owens
The only thing proven here is that you are living in a fantasy world, Stephanie.
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The Doctor
Hey boblf, normal people do not harbor a nearly overwhelming desire to rape their own sister. Something you admitted about yourself in the past on these very forums.
It is about as far from normal as you can get to want to rape your sibling.
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Rev. John D. Partin
b0blf, is it really true that you had a longtime desire to rape your own sister, as T'Keren Valmaz says that you admitted to in your posts? Not that I expect you to admit to it now, of course, but how can you call gay people "disgusting", "repugnant", "perverted", etc. when that is what you have been or still are?!! "Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone"!!!
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Minister Bill
Della Vest? Thank you.
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Della Vest
Old Evangelical Christian Midwestern Mom---Guys, they aren't promoting any "religion". I'm sure the little kids see it as "Oh, somebody's reading us a story! Whoo hoo!" If you want a "manwomanmarriage" story time, I am SURE the library would gladly arrange that. Oh, I'm also an Adult Ed teacher. I'm just glad when people are actually reading. PLEASE. Just start your own reading group, let whomever wants to take their kids to this story hour take their kids to it (I'm assuming it's taxpayer funded library, so open to all; believe it or not, drag queens ALSO pay taxes). I homeschooled a few of my kids, and they would have loved to be read to by anyone, including a drag queen. You see, they were raised to not look down on people.. I'm just thinking of all that lawsuit money, what it could have meant to a local literacy group. SMH
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Norma Battes
b0blf October 31, 2018 at 11:46 am " . . they are miserable! "
Sadly, reading most of your posts, misery is yours. I suggest you look "toward a loving, forgiving, righteous Savior, Jesus."
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Minister Ella
I believe that children have a part of them that understands the good in people and that they enjoy a good story no matter who reads to them. So if a drag queen wants to read to children in a public library and the child wants to go and hear the story, why not. We as adults need to look thru a childs eye every once in a while and understand what a child sees and hears. The story that is read by a blue haired lady or a pink haired lady or a really tall lady. We aught to look at what is on the inside not the outside. Christ does. He does not care if you wear pink or blue He sees what is in your heart. Reading is fundamental . We are all God's children even to the ones that enjoy judging others.
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Minister Bill
This is what's meant in the phrase "to mature enough to become child like". Yep. Amen minister Ella.
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Norma Battes
Bernard Moleman October 24, 2018 at 9:50 am " Keep men manly and rugged, thats what i like. "
So Bernard likes them manly and rugged men. Eewww
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Norma Battes
John Owens October 24, 2018 at 9:28 am " This is not going to end well. "
"There should have been armed guards at that library and everybody would be alive today", said someone of no great importance,
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John Owens
Don't even know where your mind took you on that.
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Stoodie Baker
Jesus was probably gay, he hung out with a whole gang of blokes all the time and had a "special love" with John. In the Last Supper art you see John cuddled up against Jesus or lying on his lap. Jesus was gay, deal with it! Or he might have been bi, because there's significant reason to believe he was banging Mary Magdalene too. So Jesus may have been a top AND a bottom!
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Lionheart
This is so funny! Thank you Stoodie. I suspect few will know what a top or bottom is, but your comment is hillarious.
When Jesus called ahead for a table he told them he wanted a table for 26. When he arrived the waiter said "Why did you want a table for 26 when there are only 13 of you". Jesus replied "We are all going to sit down one side of it"
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Larry
So.. spending an hour with a drag queen will pervert kids' minds, but spending every day and night with their parents teaches them nothing?
I'd be embarrassed to take a position like that. Then again, I didn't even know that Drag Queen was a religion.
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Bill Fox
I can read, write, and follow instructions. So can my wife. If we had young ones today, we would opt for a lower standard of living, and one of us would stay home, raise the children, and HOME SCHOOL.
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Gabe
I'm find with the concept of the DQSH, but it should not be held at a library (or any other place that is publicly-funded).
It's like putting the 10 Commandments on courthouses - public buildings and institutions should not promote any one specific ideology.
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Gayle
As long as the person(s) did not talk about drag or becoming such, then no problem. The kids have to learn to interact with all kinds of people.
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Jim M
At first I was thinking, probably not a good idea, but after giving a little more thought, no one is dragging your child into the Library to hear and see the story telling. Keep the kid at home if it bothers you. No one is being converted. Your children will most likely have the same beliefs you do.
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Nicole
So disturbing to see such Hateful comments about a story hour, to give children a love of books!
I hope those of you spewing hatred, disgust and disdane for your fellow HUMAN BEING never have to face your own mortality! You will find real fast your pathetic lines of self righteousness, dont mean a thing!
I find it funny those who say they are about love- ie..the "church" went to so much effort to hide & defend the sexual abuse of thousands of young children, by "Normal" looking men and these same that turn around and condemn Others for ??? Im still trying to what they are doing that is so wrong??-
John Owens
Nicole! Who is claiming their own self-righteousness here?
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Minister Bill
Nicole? Some of this is pure soap box instigation. The insults? I welcome them. I may inspire at least one intellectual thought in one person one day. It is a dream.
Minister Bill. I follow the silent man, for he is wise that listens.
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John Owens
Would that you were so wise.
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Marie
Society is attempting to normalize that which is not. It is not "normal" for men to dress up as women. Although I support freedom of expression, I find it to be an offensive, passive aggressive assault on femininity.
Homosexuality is not "normal". Plural marriage is not "normal". Interracial marriage is not "normal". Spoken without judgment, we can accept (not "tolerate") without attempting to con-vince society a small group of people choosing alternative life styles is the norm. Are we trying to teach children it is wrong to be comfortable in a culturally compatible male/female marriage for life?
Transgender as I see it presented today attempts to normalize delusion. Under no circumstance is anyone with a penis ever a woman. He can feel emotions traditionally expected from women. He can enjoy dressing as a woman. He has a right to express himself freely with all protections granted to everyone else. However he has no right to insist others see him as a woman, refer to him as a woman or include him in women's activities because he is not nor ever will be a woman (this life) because that infringes on the rights of all others.
Just as we would not support or encourage an anexoric's delusion of being fat, we should not encourage people to believe they can be a different gender because they feel like it. We should encourage society to accept people as they are (effeminate men/masculine women) without judging them to be less than the model. We do a disservice to children by setting them up to secretly explore options leading to a life of medical intervention and emotional turmoil.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Marie, why do you think that you and other people like you get to define "normal" for everyone else and everyone has to be the same as you are in order to qualify as "normal", making yourselves the standard for "normalcy"?!! You even say that interracial marriage is "abnormal", right along with calling homosexuality and plural marriage and transvestism and transgenderism "abnormal". So, in other words, according to you, nobody has the right to be different from you and everybody has to be a warmed over version of you and your ilk!!! That isn't reasonable at all or the reality of our differently living people in this world!!! You yourself are "abnormal" to some other people and so, by your thinking, you don't have the right to exist, either!!! "Normalcy" is in the eye of the beholder and has to be decided by everyone for himself or herself. Variety is the spice of life, not the curse of life, and so differences among people should be celebrated, not condemned, since they are meant to broaden and open our minds and make us more accepting of other people, instead of narrowing and closing our minds and making us unaccepting of other people, as you and some others here would have them be. Any emotional turmoil that transvestites and transgenders feel is due to other people's (such as yourself) small-mindedness and intolerance, instead of broadmindedness and acceptance of them, as you should be feeling!! Live and let live and mind your own business are very excellent and necessary standards for everyone in this world to follow!!! Men can be women in their psychology and souls, just as women can be men in their psychology and souls, and so men who are actually women inside and women who are actually men inside should live as what they really are and be accepted on their own terms, just as you and all other people want to be and insist on being accepted on your own terms and by your own definition of yourselves. That is loving our neighbors as ourselves and doing unto others as we would have others do unto us, in compliance with Jesus' teaching!!!
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John Owens
Yes, Marie. Let John D. Partin teach you about Jesus's teaching. He who hates conservatives and Christians, and using bigoted hate-speech refers to heterosexuals as "birthers". When a homosexual uses that, it is equally insulting to the N word or the Q word. He knows sooo much about Jesus' teaching and how to implement it in his life, you should listen to him.
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John Owens
He also accepts the mythical explanations of all the failed modern research into the fabled gay gene, apparently.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Iconoclast, John Owens, once again or still, shows himself to be wrong, as do you, by his claiming that I'm calling all heterosexuals "birthers" when that term, quite obviously (to anyone to whom it can be obvious, which leaves him out!!!), ONLY!!!! refers to people who think that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii, and keep clamoring to see his birth certificate, even though he has already produced it, and, generally, to people who doubt the American citizenship of other people who were born here and want to see their birth certificates. All heterosexuals aren't doing that, but only you and John Owens and your ignorant ilk are doing that!!!! IDIOCY is proven about you by your "thinking" that people would just "choose to become gay" in a homophobic society where they are persecuted, humiliated, ostracized, insulted, beaten up, and even killed for being gay, anymore than Jews would have "chosen to be Jewish" in Nazi Germany and that predisposition toward someone's being gay "couldn't possibly be a human genetic trait in some people", the same as blue eyes or blonde or red hair or skin color, regardless of what the research can so far prove conclusively. You don't need overreliance on scientific testing to just exercise some basic powers of observation, common sense, and discernment because science hasn't figured everything out in other areas, either, but when the obvious fact that people are still coming out as gay, despite all of the violence and prejudice displayed in society against them, is staring you in the face all of the time, you should (if you can figure anything out at all for yourself!!!) be able to figure out something from that and not just stupidly continue to assert that "people just choose to become gay". Magellan looked up at the Moon during a solar eclipse when the church and popular opinion said that "the Earth is flat" and said: "The church says that the earth is flat, but I have seen its shadow on the moon, and I have more faith even in a shadow than in the church". Likewise, I have more faith in people's continuing to come out as gay as proof that it is natural and genetic when the popular "wisdom" that they "only ever choose to become gay" should have nobody ever coming out as or being gay and always running away from it like the plague than I do in that popular "wisdom" or that lack of scientific evidence, so far, that "confirms" it. Magellan couldn't absolutely scientifically prove that the Earth was round, either, since he couldn't go out into space and look at it from out there because science hadn't advanced far enough at that time to build him a rocket ship for doing that, but only observationally and discerningly prove that it was round. So, science may not have advanced far enough on this matter, either, to absolutely prove scientifically that gayness is natural and genetic, which leaves you and John Owens and other people here free to go on saying "The Earth is flat" and its equivalent here, but I also have seen the shadow on the Moon and what is staring me right in the face, and that proves it to me and other people here who look---and see!!!! I'm not against Christians, being one myself and am not against myself, but only against the false equivalency of Conservatism and Christianity, since they aren't the same thing at all!!! Jesus was always arguing against the Conservatives of his time and place (the Pharisees), which He wouldn't have been doing if Conservatism and Christianity or godliness were actually the same thing. They aren't the same thing at all and opposition to gay people's having full equality and equal rights with everyone else in this country and in the world just obviously isn't loving our neighbors as ourselves or doing unto others as we would have others do unto us!!! It just isn't, that's all!!! If you and John Owens and any other people here don't understand or accept that, then it is you who don't understand or accept Jesus' actual teaching of love for all people, not me, and so, yes, I'm a far better teacher of that love to Marie and anyone else here than you are!!!!
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John Owens
Show me some demonstrated, proven, factual evidence that people are born gay, and we will consider the issue closed, with you being correct. If not, we can consider it closed with me being correct.
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The Doctor
Typical of you Owens, When people have referred to YOU here specifically as a Birther, its because you frequently acknowledge that you are in fact one of the hangers on to the birther conspiracy echoed by Cadet Bone Spurs Drumpf that Obama is not a born U.S. citizen.
When someone uses the term Birther it is to accurately identify those that themselves have chosen to be a part of the birther conspiracy group. A group that rents its own tables and puts on its own discussions at conspiracy themed conventions. It is the only group along side Flat Earthers that tends to only draw those that already buy into such nonsense.
People like myself that enjoy UFO and conspiracy conventions because of being long time fans of chows like X Files tend to universally avoid birther and flat earther discussions and groups because they are the Capitol C for CRAZY even among conspiracy fans.
You are a Birther Owens. Unless you are back pedaling on your position that Trump is always honest and Obama is a deceitful keyan named Barry or some such nonsense.
The fact you even try to suggest birther means something else shows how much in your own little world you live in just like your dream back door lover Drumpf.
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John Owens
Did your lover forget to pack you a lunch again?
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John Owens
It's funny that you are so demented you believe YOUR conspiracies are entertaining and somehow sane, but anyone else's are NOT. Poor you.
Send me your lover's address and I'll send him some condoms so he can pack your lunch for you.
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Stephanie Willey
Marie, "normal" is just a setting on your washing machine or dryer. The REAL medical science about gender contradicts your notions.
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John Owens
Find a doctor who says there are more than male and female, and I'll show you a quack.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Iconoclast, you say in your post that I should show you "some demonstrated, proven, factual evidence that people are born gay, and we will consider the issue closed, with myself being correct", but I have already done that by examples of people's coming out as and being gay when, according to your "thinking" that they "only ever choose to be gay", there should NEVER!!!!! be any people coming out as or being gay in the world at all and they should ALWAYS!!!!! be choosing not to be gay and certainly not to come out as gay. Accurate observation of DEMONSTRATED!!!!!! daily realities of what some people are doing all around the world is also science and it doesn't require spectrometers, DNA or genetic testing, electron microscopes, EKGs, electroencephelographs, or any other modern scientific advancements, paraphernalia or methods in order to just accurately observe reality and draw consistent and reasonable conclusions from that observation, since that is what science basically is. Isaac Newton came up with his theory of gravity from an apple falling on his head before any of these modern scientific procedures and technology ever existed because that was---and is---science and the scientific method!!! Magellan, again, figured out that the Earth is round just by his seeing its shadow on the Moon before there was any modern scientific way for him to verify that fact and that was also science. Likewise, my and other persons' observation of people's still coming out as and being gay when, logically, according to your "thinking", they should never do so and should always choose to not be gay, leaves us with only one reasonable conclusion: they can't choose not to be gay, since that is who they naturally are, and so have to be who they are and come out as who they naturally are, despite all of the problems and dangers awaiting them for doing so, because if they could choose not to be gay or come out as gay, that is certainly what they would already all be doing, without your needing to insist that they not be gay or come out as gay. Genetic predisposition in some people toward their being gay is the only reasonable answer to why any people would be gay or come out as gay in this homophobic and gay-persecuting and murdering society!!! They would no more do that, if they could really choose not to do it, than, again, Jews would choose to be Jewish in Nazi Germany, if they could really choose not to be Jewish---and still be true to who and what they were. Science today, so far, not being able to verify this accurate observation of reality no more makes it untrue than science in Newton's or Magellan's time not being able to verify their ideas made them untrue. We need to come down off ourselves a little bit (or a whole lot!!!) and stop thinking that we have everything already "all figured out" by our modern scientific methods and procedures and that what we can't figure out by those methods "doesn't exist and isn't true" because we just don't have everything all figured out, that's all, since, as I said, science hasn't figured out everything else in every other area, either!!! Most of all, science hasn't figured out the Supreme Reality of All, which is God, and so if you're going to say that "science's not being able to verify anything proves that it isn't true", then you have to, consistently and logically, say that there is no God, either, since it can't verify His existence or pin Him down, either!!!! That would be ridiculous!!! Smaller issues, such as homosexuality's being genetic in some people, are, of course, able to slip by the scientists even easier than the existence of God slips by them, due to their---and your---tunnel vision and preconceived views on both matters!!!! Figure it out for yourself, if you can: if a gigantic meteor passing right overhead, somehow, wasn't noticed by you (because you weren't paying any attention!!!!), couldn't a little sliver of rock from that meteor escape your notice much easier!!!! The proof of homosexuality's being genetic is all around you and John Owens and every other homophobe on this planet every day for you to see and learn from, but you actually have to OPEN YOUR EYES AND MINDS!!!! to be able to see it----and there, as Shakespeare would say, "is the rub" because you're not able to do so!!!!! Let me know if you ever can!!! I won't hold my breath, though, waiting for that to happen!!!!
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Minister Bill
The voice of reason is often heard and seldom listened too. Many adages explain why your learned discourse is a waste of time. I applaud it tho and agree with every word. WE do not choose what we are. in the name of God in the Christian bible, "I am that I am". Their own revered words. I am a non standard minister and in this I choose not to follow standard accepted "beliefs'. However, I also accept that others are free to do so. A note on life. Not all things are a choice. Who you love can be a choice. Who you are attracted to? Not so much.
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John Owens
Your opening phrases are patently UNscientific, JP. The fact that Bill is encouraging your lunacy should be strong enough evidence of that.
Your anecdotal references are so far removed from science as to be quaint and primitive, like saying someone will visit because your nose is itching.
Then you go back into Jews and Germany-- my God Man, you are all over the place! Magellan? Magellan?
Claiming the proof of homosexuality's being genetic being all around me? Is that like, proof of the Creator is all around me? Proof of spirits? Your conceited delusion is tragic.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Iconoclast, as usual, you Conservatives (and especially you and Outhouse---I mean--- John Owens) "think" that anyone who disagrees with and contradicts you is "unscientific" and "delusional", as though your homophobia and xenophobia and misogyny and other attitudes and problems were "scientific" and "rational", which is just more of the whole pot factory's calling a single kettle "black"!!! That is why you included a reference to Minister Bill in your post, to insult him, too, for daring to disagree with you!!! Science didn't start in the last 50 years, but has been around for hundreds of years, and so why not mention Magellan and Newton, even if that is way over your head? You must not believe in God, either, since you don't accept proofs of His existence, which science can't verify, the same as they can't verify homosexuality's being genetic in some people, but that, again, doesn't make those things not true because science can't verify them, as yet or ever. Why should I waste any more words or time on somebody as obviously stupid as you are?!!!!
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John Owens
Well, I knew you would have something unintelligent to say. What you say is not unscientific BECAUSE it disagrees with anyone. It is unscientific because it has no scientific basis. Your whole philosophy on everything appears to revolve around homosexuality, but instead of trying to make it appear more acceptable to others, you seek to demonize those who do not accept it. This is why you are totally unable to evaluate anything remotely scientific concerning it, because you are so totally biased that you have no ability to reason beyond your obsession. Apparently you are unable to understand the things you, yourself have previously written. You should be weaving baskets. Harp away, Harpy.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Iconoclast, "unintelligent" according to an actually unintelligent person, such as yourself, and actually unintelligent are (as with everything else with you and your ilk) two entirely different things because Conservatives just NEVER!!!!!! see anything correctly, logically, and reasonably!!!! So, your "understanding" of "science", according to your perverted and distorted "thinking" is also erroneous, which it is useless to try to enlighten you about because you simply don't have the mental capacity to actually understand anything that I would say to you!!! Your saying, therefore, that I'm "totally unable to evaluate anything remotely scientific concerning" my philosophy is, quite obviously (to those to whom it can be obvious, which leaves you out!!!), actually unscientific and illogical!!!! Your "brain" is revolving around itself, which makes you "think" that "everyone who disagrees with you is wrong". You don't understand what you have written or yourself, even if you "think" that you do. You are a very sad and confused person!!!! All people who are actually able to understand TRUE REASON AND LOGIC!!!! (that is, liberals and progressives) do agree with and accept my philosophy about homosexuals and other matters, and only you STUPID!!!!!!! Conservatives don't!!! You are the Head Inmate in your own private Asylum, as Howard Hughes was in his, accusing everyone else of "being crazy and weaving baskets"!!! Wake up already and smell the coffee!!! Actually, though, you are a HOPELESS CASE!!!!!
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John Owens
That's beautiful, Johnny. Play some more. I love that tune you are singing.
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Minister Bill
http://listverse.com/2009/01/19/10-debunked-scientific-beliefs-of-the-past/
And tomorrow science will once again prove that the world is flat John Owens?
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John Owens
And there it is, Ladies and Gentlemen-- proof that all liberals and leftists get their thoughts and words handed to them by some lefty clearing-house: again with the flat earth thing. What a bunch of dumbasses.
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Daniel
Let’s not forget that there was just a story about Ernie and Bert being A gay couple. Also I’ve often questioned whether the Teletubbies we’re gay and the same for Barney the dinosaur. I think for young kids the issue of seeing somebody in “costume “is fairly common. If the LGBT wants to have a story hour with drag queens then it’s really pretty much the same as any number of other characters in costume that the children would be exposed to. With it being a public library the Constitution requires equal access for all. If the extreme right wing so-called Christians have a problem with that, then they should ask call the library’s to have a Christian reading hour. Then, if the library refused to grant them equal access, they might have a leg to stand on for pursuing legal action. We should also not forget that it is these public forums, including the school setting, where children are supposed to Have the opportunity to experience many different kinds of people, so that they can expand their sense of community identity to include others
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LN
As long as they are not promoting or deriding sexual matters or religious beliefs, or political parties, or trying to vocally promote alternative genders (all those are topics best left to parents, as they are primarily responsible for the children, not some stranger who sees them once and then flitters off without needing to deal with any fallout caused by usurping parental roles), then I don't think there's any harm in them reading books, even if they're dressed flamboyantly but decently.
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Sandra Lent
If you're a bible believer, it states clearly, that men are not to lie with other men. As for men wearing dresses back then, those were robes, and in those hot countries, it was common apparel. It still is. I find that generally speaking, there is an aversion to this same sex business...be it marriage or simply "being." Is it cultural, or a natural instinct? I don't know. What I do know is that the LGBGT group keep on growing and keep on making demands on society, some of which are ridiculous. Acceptance? Isn't that, like respect, an earned thing?
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Minister V
"Acceptance? Isn’t that, like respect, an earned thing?"
Well, I for one cannot accept, nor respect, anyone who believes that an imaginary friend is real, even if they do end their half of every conversation with "amen". See how it can go both ways?
Can't have freedom of your religion if you're not free from another's religion.
Christian fundamentalists, pushing everyday to make America like the Middle East - a theocracy. I'm left wondering how long it will be until the non-Christians in this country will be facing angry death mobs like Asia Bibi in Pakistan since her blasphemy conviction was overturned.
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Stephanie Willey
You've made THE most important point, Sandra, saying "If you are a biblical believer". The Bible is and ALWAYS has been the work and writings of men, assembled, edited, and reassembled many times by men for the primary purpose of maintaining social, economic, and political control of mostly uneducated masses. An intensive thorough study of the history of the book will show what I have said here. That said, it's an excellent book that I highly recommend reading, especially in the light of what it really is. There's some REALLY good stuff in it, especially the stories of that man from Nazareth, AND there's an incredible amount of contradiction and just plan ignorant crap in it too.
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Cleocatrajones
Not to mention that women are more often than not treated horribly throughout the bible. Mostly relegated to child birthing and being little more than a servant to men. Knowing how passionately stubborn and unwavering we all tend to be about our own beliefs of what is good and just it becomes impossible to not consider the massive potential for major liberties to have been taken when translating "facts" that went against those charged with editing the bible texts believed or disagreed with themselves. Throw in the greed driven agendas that have plagued mortals since the dawn of time and it's easy to imagine things being "interpreted" in ways that gave the church the power to acquire more wealth and power through intimidation techniques that force people to believe or at least act like they do for fear of being persecuted, cast out and/or killed. Humans have never handled having power of any sort over other humans very well. Greed and power are more addictive and destructive than any drug man has ever created. They drive all evils. Not even the church is immune to that as witnessed by the enormous amount of lying and cover ups that has come to light in recent decades in regards to child molestation at the hands of priests. So many blind eyes turned for so many years and for what?! To try and avoid the cost of massive lawsuits and the incredible shame and embarrassment that admitting there's been a LONG history of these problems would cause the church to have to answer for. THESE are the people that should be kept away from our children. Those who masquerade as righteous and pious men of god in public then force innocent children that are taught to trust them implicitly to engage in sexual acts with them. Depending on the fear of god and the church to keep them quiet and available for ongoing sexual abuse. THAT is what's sick and it's all created once again by deciding how someone's sex life should be if they worship god. If priests weren't made to live a celibate life these abuses would surely drop dramatically. It's human nature to desire and need physical companionship. You can renounce it in the name of the lord but in the end human nature is going to win out one way or another with weaker individuals. Loneliness and isolation are mighty motivators.
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Chris
They are in public libraries. Your "Religious Liberty" has no sway in such areas. If your religion is so easily offended then perhaps you should examine your religion better. There is nothing wrong with drag queens reading to children. It helps the children get a better view of diversity and accepting that not everyone holds the same narrow view. This has nothing to do with so-called "Religious Freedom" and everything to do with these small minded bigots wanting to keep control over everyone.
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caz
When my grandson was about 4 years old he would often run into his aunt's room and hop into bed with her and her girlfriend. H grew up accepting that some people have same sex partners, and that is OK. He is 21 now, studying law at university and has a long term girlfriend who I hope he will end up marrying
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Rev. John D. Partin
It is certainly good that John Owens "NEVER attempted to impress YOU (Minister Bill), or any other person on here" because he hasn't succeeded in doing so and couldn't have impressed us if he had tried to do so!!! By what would he have impressed us or anyone outside of his ilk? By his narrow and small mindedness, homophobia, xenophobia, inability to ever admit that he is wrong about anything and to come out of wrong thinking about anything? That isn't really very impressive at all!!! By his own definition of "leftist" as a "narcissist" and one who "desires others to minister to you", he must be a leftist, since he is full of himself and his own views (and won't ever budge from them!!!) and expects everyone to agree with him and condemns them when they don't!!! That is really quite narcissistic!!! In what way does he serve his church by doing unto gay and immigrant and other people as he wouldn't want them to do unto him, since that is, quite clearly, a violation of Jesus teaching, that we should love our neighbors as ourselves and do unto others as we would have others do unto us?!!! He doesn't really serve his family or co-workers or club that way, either, because "whatever you have done unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done unto me", and only his moral and spiritual blindness and self-righteousness keep him from seeing and admitting that!!!! Therefore, it is hypocritical, just as it was for the Pharisees before him, to condemn other people's "self-righteousness" and "blindness" when he is so actually self-righteous and blind himself!!!
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flugo
Keith: You gotta be kiddin' me! Your 4yo grandkid grew up witnessing lesbo activity, so it's OK?! And, if he witnesses domestic abuse, or shoplifting, or cheating on school exams, etc. i't OK?! Viewing an activity makes it OK! What an absurd vein of idiocy! You'd do well to do your homework to avoid embarrassing yourself with you inane comments.
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flugo
Keith: 'Acceptance', and then it's OK, eh? If this 4yo witnesses domestic violence; witnesses shoplifting, witnesses cheating on a school exam, etc. So now it's OK? Witnessing his lesbo relative's behavior does NOT make it OK. Your 'thinking' is distorted, invalid and dangerous!
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Rev. John D. Partin
flugo, so, by that same standard, a 4 year old child's witnessing a man and a woman making love wouldn't make that right, either, would it (consistently speaking)? Because if their witnessing that wouldn't make that wrong and it would still be right for a man and a woman to make love, then, consistently, two lesbians' being seen by a 4 year old child making love wouldn't be wrong for doing so and the child's seeing them doing so wouldn't be wrong, either. That is what equal rights and equality and equal treatment are all about: the same treatment and standard for gay people as straight people receive, not a totally opposite and different standard!! Yes, ideally, a child shouldn't ever see either straight or gay people making love, but if the child does see a straight couple making love, they are just seeing a natural activity between men and women and it doesn't have to scar them for life. Likewise, if the child sees two lesbians or gay men making love, they are seeing another natural activity and it should help to teach them acceptance of other people's sexuality and not scar them for life, either. There is no more valid comparison between a child's witnessing lesbian or gay male activity and their witnessing domestic abuse, shoplifting, or cheating on school exams, and assuming that the domestic abuse, shoplifting, and cheating are "OK" just because the gay sexual activity is OK than there is between equating straight sexual activity and all of these things and saying acceptance of straight sex makes these things "OK", too!!! Sex and love aren't the same thing at all as violence and crime and it is hypocrisy and a double standard on your and anyone else's part here who does so to say that they are in the case of gay people!!! That "thinking" is what is actually absurd, idiotic, ridiculous, distorted, invalid, and dangerous!!!
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flugo
You gotta be kiddin' me! Two lesbos or two queers 'making love' is NATURAL?!
First place it's not 'making love' . . . it's making LUST!
Secondly, the two genders' body parts/configurations do NOT provide NATURALLY for this disgusting behavior.
Thirdly, these homosexuals are violating their Creators's designed intentions in intimacy, and are exposing themselves to the perils of their waywardness..
You're obviously deluded by all this 'toleration; whatever will be, will be; equal rights; diversity' crap.
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Rev. John D. Partin
In the 1st place, loving and lust are in the eye of the beholder and many things that men and women do together would also be called "lust and not love" (such as anal sex, fellatio, cunnilingus, and group sex). "Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone". Secondly, "disgusting behavior" is also in the eye of the beholder, since the above behaviors would also be considered "disgusting" by many conservative straight persons. too. Gay persons body parts fit together as well as they need to, for their purposes, and cocks fit into other men's asses as easily and well as they fit into women's asses and can be sucked as well by men as by women. What works between men and women works as well between two men or two women (with strap on dildoes). Thirdly, we have to just take your word for it that "homosexuals are violating their Creator's designed intentions in intimacy, and are exposing themselves to the 'perils' of their 'waywardness'" or that "God considers homosexuality a sin", instead of, as is actually the case, your putting those words into "God's mouth" and making "Him" say whatever you want "Him" to say, like a big ventriloquist dummy sitting on your lap, to "sanction" and "justify" your own bigotry against gay people-----and I wouldn't take your word about the time of day or directions across town, much less telling me what "God is saying or is against"!! You're obviously deluded by your homophobia and "thinking" that you are "the voice of God and His spokesman here on Earth". God is love and so, quite obviously, nothing that is anti-love (such as your homophobia!!!) can actually be from God!!!
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flugo
Your comment that 'God is love' is another of your 'lopsided' observations.
Proverbs 6:16-19; Leviticus 20:23; John 3:36 are just a few among many illustrations of God's justifiable wrath and hatred.
You represent the erroneous view held by many . . . . . . that 'if it feels good, do it', diversity, all are equal, everybody love everybody, etc.
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Rev. John D. Partin
flugo, I don't represent the view that "if it feels good, do it" and don't believe that very many other people here or out in the world really subscribe to that view, either, because, no doubt, rape feels good to rapists and child molestation feels good to child molesters and bestiality feels good to people having sex with animals, as do many other things to some people, and I and most people aren't in favor of any of those things. Those things are nonconsensual and impositions on other people and creatures and so are wrong. Homosexuality, however, is entirely consentual and only involves those who want to be involved in it and is entirely natural, the same as heterosexuality, since it is practiced by many members of the animal kingdom. Jesus said for "everybody to love everybody" ("love one another, as I have loved you") and our own Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal" and so these are, quite clearly, not erroneous views, unless Jesus and our Declaration of Independence are erroneous!!! "God is love", therefore, isn't lop-sided, but obviously right thinking, since when people in the past and today have tried to live by the idea that "God isn't love", we have had such monstrous situations as the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the "holy" wars, the Crusades, Catholics and Protestants fighting and killing each other in Northern Ireland, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ Himself, and anti-Semitism, generally, down through history and around the world!!! That is what is actually lop-sided, claiming to represent "God", while actually only making "God" say and support whatever we wanted and "Him" our servant, instead of our being His servants. We don't need God just to do what we would do, anyway, without Him, but only to be more loving people than we would be without Him or would be by just making "Him" up to suit ourselves!!!!
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Tom B
Respectfully, this has nothing to do with religion...those who protest should spend their time teaching equality to children...Tom
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Carl Elfstrom
And it would help them learn if they acted out the parts themselves. It could be like playing show and tell.
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Carl Elfstrom
Being a drag queen doesn't have anything to do with being gay at all. I've known a lot of gay men, and by far most of them look, sound, and act like regular men. And that's because they are regular men. Wanting to resemble the opposite gender is an illness all by itself. I've never claimed to be totally straight, but went to a few dragshows and didn't like them at all (except for comedy drag that's supposed to be funny (like bearded men in dresses, with hairy legs, searing combat boots). I've always preferred to see women who look like women (and the prettier the better), and men who look like men. I hope that doesn't sound too queer. I even knew one dragqueen, and a couple of transvestites who were and still are happily married to very pretty women who look like women. And they have seemingly normal children and grandchildren too. Go figure.
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John Owens
It also has nothing to do with being sane, functionally socialized, or stable, Carl.
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The Doctor
You do understand J.O that people that genuinely think there is an unseen entity watching their every moment and judging them when they die have no standing to judge what is sane or anything else.
People should indeed be free to dress how they want, and to be called what they want. People do not have the right to expect others to adhere to their archaic religions nor place a demand on society to give their religion anything but tolerance and then only as long as those practicing said religion recognize that their beliefs have no bearing and should never hold any sway with society at large.
In this case, people that are offended by this out reach program can choose not to attend it. That simple. However since the kids must eventually learn to function in society as a whole those parents choosing to build barriers between their kids and society are in effect abusing their children by denying them social and civil development with civilization and society.
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John Owens
Nobody is telling anyone how to dress, or trying to do so. The insanity is in thinking it is a good idea to have such a person reading to vulnerable, impressionable children. The cross-dresser is just being himself. The parents and supporters of this are the criminals.
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Minister Bill
T'Keren Valmaz. You waster your time and eloquence. I have written back and forth with Mr. Owens before. I have offered him proofs and documentations on ideas that he repeatedly dismissed. I once cited Wikipedia. Yes, a vague site. However, there are "sited" referents that are easily verifiable on that site that he also repeatedly dismissed as vacuous science and unreliable research. Now, just my opinion to and about Mr. John Owens. He has chosen his views, all others are viewed as wrong and he will not be swayed. So, perhaps your time would be better suited doing perhaps oh, I don't know, counting the grains of sand on a beach?
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John Owens
"Minister Bill" is so wise...in his own eyes.
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Minister Bill
Thank you for the insults. I take that as high praise. Why do you put Minister Bill in quotes? Like my information do you? Thanks for that. PS. I consider the source. Not greatly impressed sir. I do pray for you. I can discontinue that if you like.
later
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John Owens
I put it in quotes because I doubt that you minister to anyone. Minister means servant. It can be translated as secretary, assistant, helper, deacon. Since you are obviously a leftist, that means you are a narcissist and desire others to minister to you. I serve my wife, family, co-workers, church, and club, as well as my fellow man when the opportunity arises. Still I don't presume to give myself self-righteous sounding titles like some here, because it is a surreptitious claim to righteousness.
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John Owens
BTW, I NEVER attempted to impress YOU, or any other person on here.
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John Wilson
The real issue is that SCOTUS has ruled on religious liberty twice. Once with Hobby Lobby and once with the cake decorators. Those two ruling have set a precedent that any nut job organization can claim 'religious liberty' as a reason to sue. In reality the religious liberty nut jobs simply want to control the behaviors of the rest of society. All of you haters should take a break and let the rest of the world live how it wants to.
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John Owens
Your take is exactly the opposite of the facts, Wilson.
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power to the people
DANG!!!!!!! Another hot button issue brought to you by the ULC blog. ;-)
I don't care if your gay or not, it's not for me to judge...however, I am not sure I want a dude in a mini skirt reading "Mary Had a Little Glam" to my toddlers.
Maybe when you're a little older Jimmy.
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Timothy Blackwood
If you don't "approve" of DQSH... then don't go! Major DUH.
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Carl Elfstrom
It might even be fun for all of the boys who go to that to dress up like girls for that hour. Of course, their parents will first have to sign a consent form.
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John Owens
This cannot be happening.
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Carl Elfstrom
It can, and it is. Stick around, it gets better. For there's no business like show business like no business I know. On with the show!
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Minister Bill
In history, people were murdered in the name of Christ/Christianity or God. That is why I am a non-standard minister and instead preach faith in heart, health, family and home. I have stated before that if I could establish a church it would be the First National Church of the Irreverent Soul.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
How ridiculously stupid and misguided. These "Christ Followers" are perverted monsters. If they were truly "Christ Followers" they would be walking His talk, like ministering to the ill, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, taking care of the poor. Jesus would slap the sh*t out of these hypocrites. There is nothing worse then a bunch of monsters in fake holier than thou robes. The real question is why are they so threatened by people who look different or have different norms than they do? Why do they look outward rather than inward at their true disturbed selves? What are they doing to really make the world a better place? How are they helping those who suffer in the world?
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Carl Elfstrom
And don't forget, Jesus had long hair and wore something similar to a dress. I don't know if he ever performed in shows on stàge, but he could have.
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John Owens
The long hair thing is just an artist's concept. It probably wasn't a crew-cut or flat-top but most likely was not very long, according to the styles of the day. The robes, for sure.
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John Owens
How do you define monster? Is that someone who finds fault with others? If so, do you think your comments qualify you?
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
What in the world is your issue Icon? Do you walk your talk? I do not need to "qualify" to express my opinion when I see bigotry and hatred against those who are "different." If you don't like it, too bad, get over yourself. Ridiculous.
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John Owens
I can see the bigotry and hatred in your self-righteous comments. I am asking you if you can see them. As for walking the talk? Does asking a question require a walk?
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flugo
'catherine alphabet': Typical of your usual generalizations. Hatred and/or bigotry do not necessarily results from observing 'different' people.
A person can describe, admonish, pity, and avoid members of the LGBTQXYZ-ers without rancor and bigotry. These people ARE different! Their lifestyle is reprehensible and sinful. Many of them troll/recruit.
But, their 'differences' do not necessarily elicit the reactions and emotions your'e describing.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Grow up misogynist. Bigotry is bigotry. Your "sinful" ideology does not inspire, nor bring love and compassion to anyone. What you consider reprehensible is a gift to others. Recruiters are those monstrous racists, bigots and misogynists who try to force their beliefs on others as if THEIR way is the only way and the RIGHT way. There is no need to "admonish" or "pity" those who are different in their appearance. This is the United States of America, made up of diverse groups of people of color, creed, culture and sexual orientation. If you do not like the way people look here in the US, leave the country and go set up shop elsewhere. We have always been a diverse nation.
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John Owens
Bigotry IS bigotry. Even if it is directed at me.
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The Doctor
Here is a difference between you and I boblf. You have admitted here on these forums that you long had a serious incestuous desire to rape your own sister.
I on the other hand have never had any desire other then to care for and protect my female relatives.
Remember in at least some sects of christianity thinking is as bad as doing. So yeah. when it comes to even thinking something as sick as you admit you thought of long and often well you must grasp how little meaning your words can have.
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Ann Wood
The incredible notion that you can be "taught" to be either gay, or straight tells us we are still a nation of frightened and mostly ignorant folk. With a multitude of real problems that adversely affect ALL of us, why are we wasting time and energy on inconsequential minutia ? If the country plunged into nuclear war tomorrow, and bombs fell in your community, or if you went bankrupt with no hope of recovering money or home, or if you got a diagnosis of liver cancer - - -how would LBGT (not sure I got all the letters describing "different" orientation) be of any import in your life? It would not then, nor is it now. Relax, be who you are comfortable being with regard to sex, but whatever you choose, be kind to others, love your family, and work for a better environment for all Advice from a 90 year old Mother of 5
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CRAIG
AMEN!
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John Owens
We are taught and learn EVERYTHING that we become. To think otherwise is lunacy.
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Stephanie Willey
Science, that's REAL science says something VERY different, John.
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John Owens
No, it does not, Stephanie.
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Stephanie Willey
Oh YES it IS !
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John Owens
So, once again, put up, or shut up. Were you born, destined to wear the hair style you prefer? Were you born, destined to walk like you walk? You are telling me, that a newborn little baby can be born to be a lesbian. That is the stupid thing anyone could ever believe, and there is no scientific FACT that it is even possible, much less likely.
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Minister Bill
Amen Sister!
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Beth K
This appears to be quite popular.
Note that all drag queens are not gay, and most gays are not drag queens. Most people in either group are not child molesters.
If you want to see someone with a higher probability of being a child molester, look at someone who befriends single mothers or dates or marries them.
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Rev. Rene
Beth, as a hetero man who married a single mother and is now 34 years happily married to her, second marriage, widowed, with grand kids and great-grand kids, I must take exception to that. I spent lots of time reading to my kids, and to my grand-kids, and perhaps being read to is a very real benefit, with love. Many single women, with daughters or boys, would like to find a relationship with the right partner, and almost most of those are NOT molesters!!! With the right partner, why on God's green earth would they be??? Could this be why so many Catholic Christian priests are just that? NOT a partner to marry?
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John
I would have to agree with you on this my son married a single mon and he is DEFINITELY not a molester
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John Owens
Whether they are child-molesters or not is almost irrelevant here. The point, the GOAL, is to confuse the children, to change their values. Look at that little girl staring incredulously at a man with a blue wig, dressed as a woman, reading a story like her parents should be doing. This kind of thing will cause blood to be spilled.
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The Doctor
Spilled by whom? Oh yes thats right the false christians that never understood the actual message of the faith they claim to adhere to the dogma of.
You as usual try to suggest acting violently towards people that are doing nothing wrong is somehow acceptable and to be expected.
Then again what else do we expect of a conspiracy nut that thinks Obama is not a born U.S. citizen and the earth is flat.
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Minister Bill
Ala the "Crusades"? Saving people by killing them in the name of God? I may understand the crusades improperly but there where Holy Christian Knights of one type or another and knights kill. That's what the sword and shield are for after all, right?
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John Owens
So, both of you think that people who do not accept this should be FORCED to accept this? Silly for you to attempt to preach or shame me. I'm telling you, that you cannot force people to accept this, and it is ridiculous to WANT them to accept this, and even MORE ridiculous to try to MAKE them accept it. Sure, you want Christians, Jews, and everyone else to turn the other cheek to you when you are trying to take their values away from their children, as though THESE values have something positive to offer. Tolerance has a limit.
T'Keren, why do you insist on using that stupid ass flat earth bullshit? That is a flat lie, with no reason for you to even mention it besides the fact that militant leftists use it in their diatribes so often, because their speech, like their thinking, is programmed by their peers.
I did not encourage violence. I predicted violence. Not the same thing at all.
It does not make me a nut to believe Obama was not born in the United States. Also, if conspiracies did not exist, there would be no legal term referring to them. RICO deals with conspiracies. That is how they bring down cartels and organized crime. They prosecute CONSPIRACIES. The DNC conspired to give delegates to Hillary at the expense of Bernie Sanders. Does that make everyone who heard that news NUTS? Your brainwashing makes you think that by saying "conspiracy nut," that automatically makes someone wrong or the idea untrue. THAT'S DUMBER THAN A ROCK!
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Chris
It's a public library, not a private Xian library. Your narrow beliefs have no say in such places. You want to force your beliefs onto everyone else and when someone refuses to bow down you claim we're forcing our beliefs onto you. Nobody is forcing these children to go to the library. Nobody is forcing them to sit and listen to someone read to them. However, you and your kind are wanting to force anyone who doesn't live as you do out of existence because you can't stand not being in control.
So get over yourself, John. This isn't about losing your religious freedom. It's about losing control, losing power, and that scares you and your kind more than anything else.
You don't like this, don't go. Don't take your children. But you cannot force your narrow beliefs onto everyone. You have no right in telling me I can't go or I can't take my children. You Have No Right. Just like I can't tell you what church you must belong to or which deity you claim to worship.
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Norma Battes
John Owens October 29, 2018 at 8:40 am
John, have you considered other websites? Maybe one where participants share more of your views. Just a thought.
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John Owens
Norma, do you really want to be on a blog where everyone thinks the same, and encourages each other's bad concepts?
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John Owens
Chris, you talk like a tree hit you. I guess you meant Xtian library, but I never mentioned religion in connection to this being a bad idea that will not end well. No one has asked anyone to bow down either. Where the Hell did you pick that up? And WTF do you know about me and " my kind?" That talk doesn't sound bigoted to you? Also, I have never mentioned EVER forcing anyone to live as I do. In what kind of paranoid fantasy are you living?
Get over MYself? You need to get over yourself. You think you can see so damned deeply into my thinking and you can't even see that you are imagining a whole lot of stuff about me concerning which you have no clue.
You want to talk about rights? You have no right to assume you know so damned much when you obviously do not. You talk much more like a self-righteous little prick than I do.
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Chris
John Owens,
You're a real crack-up. No, I mean Xian, since the X represents Christ. Why would I say Christtian?
The entire purpose of this article is about religious folk trying to force their beliefs on everyone. They don't agree with drag queens so they're suing to stop these people from reading to children for no reason other than to force their religious beliefs onto everyone. There is no reason this will not end well except for those bigots who are suing the city. Such a lawsuit could put an end to a beneficial reading program just because they don't approve of who is doing the reading. These Fundigelicals want everyone to bow down to their beliefs, by law if necessary. This lawsuit is an example of exactly that.
You appear to support such a lawsuit, and certainly seem to be opposed to drag queens, gay people, and pretty much anyone who is different from you. In fact, you seem to be quite intolerant of anyone different from you.
Per Merriam-Webster, the definition of a bigot is: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Based on your responses to others on this post and other posts, it seems safe to say you're very much a bigot. And yes, technically that would make me bigoted toward small-minded people who want to take rights away from anyone they don't like for no reason other than they find such people offensive for existing. You certainly don't appear to be a follower of Christ, but more of an American Fundigelical. Completely different set of beliefs.
So yeah, get over yourself. You are the one hating people who are trying to do a good public service just because you don't like them. You rant and rave against people who hold differing opinions, You, sir, speak like a self-righteous prick constantly.
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John Owens
Chris, The X is used to represent the greek letter, CHI, which looks like an X. Christos is spelled CHI RHO IOTA SIGMA OMICRON SIGMA . I have often seen Christian written as Xtian, but never as Xian.
Now, why do you attribute this: "You want to force your beliefs onto everyone else and when someone refuses to bow down you claim we’re forcing our beliefs onto you," to me? I never said any such thing. In fact, I asked you where you got that bullshit. You made that up.
You don't know anything about me or "my kind" you prejudiced prick.
Here's another one: "you and your kind are wanting to force anyone who doesn’t live as you do out of existence because you can’t stand not being in control."
If I'm REALLY that much of a bad guy, you wouldn't have to make up shit like that.
Here's another one: "You have no right in telling me I can’t go or I can’t take my children." Who the Hell told you that you can't go? Why are you making shit up? You must be nuts. Show me where I said you can't go. You don't know what the Hell you're talking about.
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John Owens
BTW Chris, this describes YOU and John Partin: "Per Merriam-Webster, the definition of a bigot is: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance."
I certainly never presumed to know anything about you other than the things you have actually said. You ASSUME a lot of stuff about me that is not in evidence, and you stick to your opinion, like John Partin.
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Chris
You're a real pip, Mr. Owens. You stick to your story no matter what, even when you have to change it to suit your needs. You just keep drinking that Kool-aid. As for me, I have better things to do than to argue with someone who can't even keep his story straight. Blessed be, and may your deity treat you as you treat others.
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John Owens
My story doesn't change, doesn't NEED to change. YOURS does, though.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Yes, it DOES!!!! make you a NUT!!!!! to believe that Obama wasn't born in the United States, the same as Flat Earth Society members are NUTS!!!!! to go on believing or, at least, saying that "the Earth is flat", despite all the evidence that proves them WRONG!!!!, because Obama has, similarly proved all of you birthers WRONG!!!! by producing his birth certificate and proving that he was born in Hawaii, which is part of the United States-----not Kenya!!!! Short of always wearing a t-shirt or baseball cap with his birth certificate on it or having it tattooed all over his chest and going around without his shirt, there isn't any more evidence that he could provide to prove his American citizenship, especially to people such as you, who wouldn't believe any amount of evidence or facts disproving their beliefs and conspiracy theories, no matter how compelling or obviously true it is!!!! You want to disassociate yourself from the Flat Earth Society, so that your conspiracy theories and "thinking" won't be lumped in with their beliefs, but the fact remains that you do "think" along the same lines and have the same psychology as them. So, your denials of being Flat Earth kind of people are just worthless and more self-deceit on your part!!!! Yes, calling someone a conspiracy nut, when it is verifiably true, as in your case, DOES!!!!! make it true, as even you think when it comes to Flat Earth Society members and. maybe, Holocaust deniers yourself!!!!! You would be the one, along with your ilk, to be DUMBER THAN A ROCK!!!! to deny that!!! As for "forcing you and other people to accept homosexuality", nobody is talking about doing that to you, which can no more be done than making all white racists accept and love all black people and other minorities, but if you want to go on not accepting homosexuals, the same as they don't accept other races, at least, keep your non-acceptance of these people to yourselves and don't impose that bigotry on them. You wouldn't want them doing that to you, if your positions were reversed, and so don't do that to them. That is the Golden Rule of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you would just do that, you could go on being as unaccepting of these people. keeping it to yourselves, as you liked and to your hears' content!!!
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Rev. John D. Partin
T'Keren Valmaz, you are entirely right about John Owens and his ilk!!!! The point of a drag queen's reading a story to children (as John Owens isn't able to understand or appreciate) is to broaden their minds and make them more accepting of differences in people, instead of unaccepting of differences in people, as Owens and other homophobes and xenophobes would have them be. The little girl in the picture wasn't staring incredulously at the drag queen, but only with wonder and curiosity and openness, as little children do. Not accepting drag queens' reading to our children at story hour in schools is not accepting them---PERIOD!!!, the same as anyone else reading to our children, which is just wrong and unequal treatment to do!!! There isn't anything at all wrong with men dressing up as women or women dressing up as men, no matter what bigots such as John Owens may say about it!!! He is, quite obviously, a conspiracy nut because Obama has clearly demonstrated (to anyone to whom it can be reasonably demonstrated) that he was born in Hawaii, not Kenya, and the birthers, such as John Owens, are all IDIOTS!!! We need more drag queens reading stories to children, and running for public office, and doing everything else that other people are doing, not less, and to accept them all!!!!
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John Owens
T'Keren, you and I do not often agree on an issue, but if this guy Partin was agreeing with me, that would be like praise from John Maher-- it would make me re-think everything. Just saying. Partin is a hand-wringing, hysterical, bigoted loon who just hates conservatives and lumps them all together. Textbook bigotry.
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Past Security Enforcement Loss Prevention Officer
Ok play nice. If the little boy thinks he's a little girl then maybe he needs to see a shrink, but that's up to his mom and dad not you. Me myself would beat my son over the head with a bat if he even thought about wearing a dress, but thst's just me. If he came home with something pink I would burn it.
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Quasi
Please learn some real facts from Biology and Genetics:
There are more than just the common 2 physical sexes (XX and XY chromosomal types) in humans. Can you name them all? I know you can't so here goes: 1. asex (no sex organs); 2. male; 3. female; 4. intersex ( some or all of 2 and 3).
Additionally, are you familiar with the "human chimera"? They are the natural, in-womb merger of two separately fertilized eggs cells, in the same mother, into one single individual. One set of chromosomes will be male and one set will be female. That resulting baby will have either the XX or XY chromosomes in their cells, but not within the same organ. The sex organs will be one set, and the brain can be the other. Mother Nature is most flexible, and creative.
Moreover, many other chromosome configurations exist than just the common XX and XY pairings. There are XXX, XXY, XXXX, XXXY combos and a host of others.
There is the Xq28 gene on the X chromosome that is associated with Gayness, found from identical twin studies. There is an unnamed gene on the 8th chromosome that is associated with Gayness, found from fraternal twin studies.
Isn't science wonderful. One simply CANNOT impose one's artificial limitations onto Mother Nature!
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John Owens
None of which shows that anyone is born to be homosexual or a cross-dresser, nor has anything to do with cross-dressers reading stories to small children in a public setting.
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Stephanie Willey
Wrong yet again John Owens. The medical science is clear on this : Your sexuality AND your identity, that includes your gender identity are developed in the brain along with many of the higher brain functions early in the third trimester of pregnancy, which means your ARE born with them. Even though sexuality does not usually manifest itself until puberty, you were still born gay or strait or asexual or pansexual or whatever. Try reading some REAL science .....
Actually, after reading John Owens' comments all these years I am nearly convinced you are in fact a Russian Troll. And if NOT you sure do sound like one.
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John Owens
Show me the study that proves this or stop saying it.
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John Owens
I have looked into every claim of this that has been thrown out on this blog and not one of them says what you assert with any clarity or authority, much less any proof or demonstrability. What you assert is, in fact, a myth.
BTW, how on EARTH would you know what a Russian Troll sounds like, unless you have been to Russian Troll Recognition Training? The fact that you use such speech belies the stupidity of your false belief system.
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Stephanie Willey
John, I am clearly NOT your instructor. Go out and find the research yourself just like I have. I'm going on 20 years intensive dedicated study of the human brain structures and development, sexuality, and the concept and science of "the self". But I suspect that you do n ot want to understand the real science as it will certainly challenge your old testament biblical notions.
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John Owens
I have looked up the research claiming and it is not a "scientific fact" that anyone is born gay, straight, or this stupid "pansexual" you are claiming. You aren't reading research. You are reading propaganda.
Just read the scientific reviews of what you are calling research. If you had any foundation in science at all, you would know that what you are trying so desperately to believe is biologically impossible. You probably DO know that, but still want to believe it. And stop trying to think you have any clue about my biblical notions. For starters, old testament is a false expression for a false concept.First thing YOU need to do, is look up the lexical definition of a scientific fact. What you believe might by a stretch, be considered a theory, like evolution, but not a fact, because it is not proven, because it cannot be proven, because it is not possible to prove it. THEN talk about how there is something wrong with MY thinking. It is not my fault I am right and you are wrong. That is YOUR fault for allowing yourself to deny actual facts.
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John Owens
As I said, show me the study proving it or stop saying it.
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The Doctor
Sorry Johnny Owens but as always your entire position is invalid. You as a believer in unseen mythical creatures, and as a buyer into insane conspiracy theories as a birther and most likely flat earther and creationist do not ever get to ask for, nor have any level of understanding to grasp the evidence you keep claiming others need to show to state well documented and established research on well anything really.
You cant show anyone your god and thus even if you were a school teacher would not have any business asking the students to show their work.
Only when you stop being blind by the unseen can you learn to understand that which your eyes do perceive.
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John Owens
Do you believe in gravity, T'Keren?
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Minister Bill
T'Keren Valmaz? I don't know you but I think we would get along. Thanks for this.
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The Doctor
I dont believe in gravity I observe it. You as always attempt very weak tea whataboutism tactics.
You can experience and observe the effects of gravity easily by going to a carnival and riding a ride called the gravitron.
Observation of a phenomena that is experienced by everything on this planet daily is about as far on the other end of the spectrum from someone constructing a self delusion and believing in it as one can get.
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John Owens
Like in, say, your own self-importance?
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John Torregiano
Hey Quasi...did you fall out of your bell tower and onto your head? EVERYTHING you just stated is a huge steaming pantload! First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "gay gene". Secondly, one is either born with XX, or XY chromosomes. They are either MALE or FEMALE. PERIOD! Two sexes, PERIOD. Where in the hell did you come up with that crap you are peddling. You won't find a geneticist on THIS PLANET who will give one iota of credence to ANYTHING you just said. I think you had better stay of the leftist science-fiction websites. Good Lord! Science puts it this way: "Since sexual orientation is such a complex trait, we're never going to find any one gene that determines whether someone is gay or not," says Mustanski. "It's going to be a combination of various genes acting together as well as possibly interacting with environmental influences."
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Stephanie Willey
John, you are wrong. There are MANY X and Y genetic combinations. While there is yet no clear scientific medical evidence of a "Gay Gene", the multiple X and Y gene combinations is clear, proven science. Go study it for yourself.
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John Owens
Like I said, I HAVE studied it. That is why I know you are allowing yourself to be misled by people to whom truth is less important than agenda. Mere observation should teach you that babies are not interested in sex at all, heterosexual or homosexual. I have held a lot of babies in my life, male and female, and not one ever tried to fondle me or encourage me to fondle them. Babies LEARN behavior. They are not BORN knowing how to behave. They are TAUGHT. Period. If not, ALL of us would be more or less the same, since we have common ancestors somewhere back in aniquity, which would limit the amount of differences attainable. All straight people would be more or less the same, and all homosexuals would be more or less the same, but we are not, because we LEARN differently.
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The Doctor
admitting you would abuse and likely murder your own child for choosing a life path you dont approve of is very telling about the kind of mentally ill violent psychotic you clearly are.
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LN
Luke 17:2 (KJV) is pretty clear that Jesus has a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to child abusers. I can't see how someone could claim to be Christian if they intend to abuse their child for any reason at all.
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Norma Battes
T'Keren Valmaz October 26, 2018 at 7:02 pm " ...telling about the kind of mentally ill violent psychotic you clearly are. "
Little wonder why there is child suicide over homosexuality. To the original poster, take a hint, "Just Stop already".
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Sammy
A lot people don't us Christians talking about JESUS I am tired of the ACLU which my sister work for well I tired of the LGBT or what they call them I don't want to see anything about them just go away
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Minister Bill
"Disgusting, subnormal, sinful lifestyle". Much like yours I suppose as he that would cast the first stone? Are you then perfect?
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Rev. Wilmer Stanley
I'm a Christian myself and I must say, the opponents of DQSH are morons. Their rights are not at all being violated, yet they are trying to violate the rights of others. They need to understand that our (Christian) values are not meant to apply to non-Christians. We live in a very inclusive society and that is fine. Belief is a choice - not a hammer to pound pegs into a hole. Don't like DQSH? Don't go. Problem solved. Meanwhile, people who practice the real ideals Christ plainly gave us (love for EVERYONE, regardless of belief) will go down to the library and prove what a real Christian is and demonstrate love and compassion despite our differences.
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cbcuff
Well said, "....that our (Christian ) values are not meant to apply to non-Christians". If only those 'Christ followers' could only grasp such a fundamental show of respect.
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Cleocatrajones
Very well said Bill. We should all move from a place of love no matter how our beliefs my differ. The only thing to fear is fear. Truer words have rarely been spoken. Positive things RARELY come from fear. Fear breaks down communities and breeds hate and negativity. We don't have to fear and/or hates things that we don't understand or that make us uncomfortable for whatever reason. Teaching our children to do so will poison their minds and stunt their personal growth into kind and loving human beings in far worse ways than a library drag queen story reading program ever will. This should be clear to anyone with an ounce of intelligence, common sense and empathy especially in these present times we're living in where hate and violence seem more prevalent than ever. Speaking for myself personally, I was a hair stylist for 25 years in the 80s and 90s. I lost many friends to AIDS. Some gay and some not. I worked with many gay men and women over that span of time and many became and have remained very beloved extended family. I've known MANY that never did drugs or overindulged with alcohol. Just as with my many straight friends, there were some that did experiment with drugs and alcohol and others that never did. I can only speak of my personal experience but of the MANY friends and acquaintances that have shared their stories of 'coming out" with me the number of those that were molested as children has actually been very low. You can't make these incorrect and hurtful assumptions and blanket statements about things that you don't REALLY want to understand (and therefore hate and fear) into ACTUAL truths no matter how hard you try. What you will do (and sadly seem hell bent on doing so) by spreading lies like your belief that ALL gays are miserable depraved suicidal child molesting drug addicted alcoholics is greatly disappoint the god you claim to love and obey and spread the word of.
"Judge not lest ye be judged" When we condemn someone’s behavior, whether it’s blatantly what we believe to be sinful or just different than our own, we almost NEVER use the proper standard of judgment. We pass judgment according to our own strengths and opinions. When God evaluates that person, he takes into account everything about that person – their biology, sinful tendencies, weaknesses, family history, current struggles, and a thousand other factors. God’s judgment is perfectly just, our judgment as normal human beings is terribly skewed. Without omniscience, all our judgments are doomed to be off kilter. When God judges a person, his judgment flows out of his omniscience. It’s a terrifying thing to think of God judging us based on the way some of us judge others. So often, our judgment lacks mercy. It lacks compassion. And it lacks knowledge. Do I want to be judged by God and others with the same standard? No! That would be crushing. This is why Jesus warns about the dangers of judging others. If we’re not careful, we’re going to end up being judged by our own crushing standards. We should stand for righteousness and we should defend the weak and vulnerable. There’s a massive difference between judging arrogantly and judging with humility. Arrogant judgment says, “What a despicable, vile, weak person.” Humble judgement says, “Apart from the redemption of Christ, I’d be joining them, and apart from God, I would lose my salvation." Arrogant judgment says, “I would never do something like that.” Humble judgment says, “Though I may not struggle like they do, I sin in other ways.” Arrogant judgment says, “I’m better than them.” Humble judgment says, “We both need Christ.” Jesus said, “Judge not lest ye be judged,” as a gracious warning. If we start playing judge, jury, and executioner to people, we're going to find ourselves on the business end of our own standard. That’s a frightening prospect to listen to hate some of y'all are spewing. Jesus didn’t say, “Judge not lest ye be judged,” in order to make us meek and mild people. He said it so that we would be slow to judge and so that any judgment we do pass will be tempered by mercy and empathy not fueled by fear and ignorance and the resulting hate. Peace and blessings.
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flugo
These LGBTQXYZ-ers will stop at nothing to advance their disgusting, subnormal, sinful lifestyle. They are immoral predators who are miserable in the inside, yet tout their happiness and fulfillment in their sordid condition..
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Quasi
b0blf, Please tell me what my sins are ... puleeze? Why are they any worse than yours and the sin that is your comment? Thanks, Minister Quasi.
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The Doctor
I can tell you one of BobLFs he has admitted on these forums in the past that he for a long time had very real yearning to rape his own sister.
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biblical scholar
the GAY AGENDA will not stop until all our little boys ARE SHAVING THEIR LEGS AND WEARING LIPS STICK. I for one WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS. Keep men manly and rugged, thats what i like. Whose with me!
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Steven
First of all, if you actually knew anything about the gay community you would know that all gay men do not shave their legs and wear lipstick. There are probably some gay men out there more manly and rugged than yourself. Second of all there is no agenda in the gay community to make anyone, child or adult do anything. We do not recruit and we don't have the power to make an individual anything that they are not. I have actually meet quite a few men who say they are straight that are far more FEM than a lot of gay men that I know.
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Woke
"We do not recruit" Oh yes you do. It's called pederasty, and it, along with other forms of sexual abuse, is rampant in the gay community. Show me a gay man who didn't have an older, wiser gay mentor showing him the ways of degeneracy, all the while feeding him drugs and alcohol to make it "easier", to drown the pain. Rare is the homosexual who is truly biologically homosexual. Most gays, men and women, are that way because of a combination of abandonment (whether physical or emotional) of one or more parent coupled with sexual abuse. It is very far from being something to normalize and celebrate. Of course real homosexuality is rare - it's a biologication deviance that prevents propogation of the species. People always point to "gay animals", but two males in the wild are all about dominance, not affection. Like all arguments trying to make gay ok, it's a ridiculous and unintelligent stretch. The gay agenda is all about the breakdown of the family as we've known it for many millenia. Break down the family - the basic building block of a healthy society - and you break down the culture, leaving it ready to be remoulded by the degenerate powers that care nothing about tradition. I'm not interested in god or the bible, I'm interested in the emotional and psychological health of our children and society we are raising them in. The liberal gay agenda is about destruction. Gays are not happy - just look at the rampant drug abuse - and no amount of acceptance will make it better. Does it suck to be really and truly gay, abnormal and different? I'm sure it does. I'm heartbroken for people whose lives are difficult through no fault of their own. But shame on the gay community for grooming the youth to follow in their miserable footsteps, destroying their chances of healthy normal relationships, increasing their risk of drug addiction, venereal disease, and suicide. It's not about a lack of acceptance, it's about an unshakable knowing deep down in every being that homosexuality is an aberration.
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flugo
Excellent, Woke! 'Gays' are not gay . . they are miserable! And to be pitied. prayed for, and pointed toward a loving, forgiving, righteous Savior, Jesus.
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The Doctor
Coming from Boblf who has admitted here on these forums in the past that he long harbored desires and yearnings to rape his own sister.
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Norma Battes
Woke October 31, 2018 at 9:03 am " Rare is the homosexual who is truly biologically homosexual. " The one bright (and factual) point in your whole post.
But then, if you actually spoke with (and heard) homosexuals about their lives, you would know that it is not the fact that they are homosexual that brings their angst. It is the judgments of others, the demeaning, the ridicule, the outright hate that they feel towards them that they agonize. Be proud! It is your beliefs that drive children to suicide. Be joyful! It is your glances and whispers that untold thousands in our communities live in fear of reprisals. Be righteous! It is your condemnation that they are evil that they marginalize themselves from living fulfilling lives. You are truly God's chosen!
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John Owens
This particular thread is off-topic, but is there really any way to measure whether all of their angst and suicide comes from the judgement of others? Wouldn't that mean if they lived in an enclave of like-minded individuals they would have no angst and suicide? I'm asking, because it doesn't seem logical to me that such an opinion can possibly be verified.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Enough of the angst and suicide comes from the judgment of others to cause angst and suicide for some people for that reason. Do they always result from that judgment of others? Probably not, but if it only happens for that reason one out of a thousand times (and it is considerably more frequent than that, just logically considered), it is one time too many!!! If judgment of others and bullying and persecution weren't contributory to angst and suicide at all, there would be no relevance in them to these things or any reason not to go on doing them, but we all know (who are able to know) that they are contributory to angst and suicide and so they are wrong to keep doing to people. Any other "thinking" about them, such as John Owens offers, is just making excuses for them.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Woke, if rampant drug abuse among gay people "proves", according to you, that "gays are not happy", then that same rampant drug abuse among straight people should, consistently, "prove", according to you, that "straight people aren't happy, either". Any people, gay or straight, abusing drugs has no bearing on their being basically happy with their sexual orientation or themselves or else we would have to say that straight people abusing drugs "must be unhappy with being straight and really want to be gay", according to your "logic"!!!! One thing just has nothing to do with the other and people, gay and straight, abuse drugs for many different reasons, none of which have anything to do with unhappiness about their sexual orientation. As for animals' "really just expressing dominance and not sexual attraction or pleasure in their sexual activities with other animals of the same sex" (to paraphrase), they have, again, many other ways of expressing dominance over other animals without sticking their genitalia into these other animals and copulating with them and so this sexual activity couldn't possibly derive from the same motivation as overt domination of other animals. Pleasure is pleasure, even for the animals, and so they couldn't be doing something that even they know will give them pleasure only or even primarily for the sake of domination of others, without the expectation of that pleasure entering into their thinking or motivation at all. Bulls and moose head butt each other to prove domination; they don't mount each other in turn and copulate with each other to prove it. Even inmates in prison who sexually use other men could very easily find other ways to dominate and humiliate them (such as by just beating them down!!!), if sexual pleasure and desire played just no part in their actions at all, since a solidly straight man, with no leanings toward homosexuality at all, would never even consider sexual activity with another man, under any circumstances, and would be disgusted and nauseated by it!!! So, some homosexual attraction and desire must be at work even in those cases and natural among men and animals. Again, if gay suicide "proves", according to you, "an unshakable knowing deep down in every being that homosexuality is an aberration", then, consistently, straight people's suicides must also "prove an unshakable knowing deep down in every being that heterosexuality is an aberration", instead of, as is actually the case for both gay and straight suicides, that these people are just despondent about other matters and areas in their lives, which have nothing to do with their basic sexual orientation. You can't honestly say, though, that persecution and unacceptance of gay people never drives any gay people to commit suicide because there are just too many instances of its having done so for you or any other honest or reasonable people (if that is what you are) to deny that!!!! Look it up if you don't believe me or don't already know that. Don't just take my word for it. I can point you in the right direction and can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink or do the work of discovery for you. That is your job!!! Gay people don't recruit people to become gay because that isn't something that people can be recruited into: you are gay or you aren't, and either way, you were born that way. Again, are straight people having to recruit people into becoming straight or are all people, gay and straight, just who they naturally are, without needing to be recruited into it? Obviously, we are all who we naturally are!!! Let's have one consistent standard for gay and straight and all people, instead of two or more different and dishonest standards!!! Gay people aren't anti-family, but only about broadening the very narrow and small minded definition of "family" to include them as people who love each other. What is wrong, except to small and narrow minded people, with broadening the definition of "family" to include gay people, too, and opening our minds to love between two men or two women in committed relationships as well?!!!! Acceptance of gay people does make it better for them, the same as acceptance for yourself or anyone else makes it better for you. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you and love your neighbor as you love yourself!!!
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Don
That would be much easier to do if our gay neighbors loved us as much as they love themselves.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Do black people who have been unjustly treated and discriminated against by white people also love all white people indiscriminately as much as they love other black people and themselves? Why would it be any different with gay people toward straight people and homophobic straight people indiscriminately when it comes to loving them as much as they love other gay people and themselves? Put yourself in their place and tell me what you would do, then.
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William Tarrest
Woke, 1. Your claiming that "two males in the wild are all about dominance, not affection" doesn't really fly because animals have many other ways of demonstrating dominance with sticking their genitalia into each other. Pleasure is pleasure for an animal, too, and they would hardly be doing something that they knew from experience would give them pleasure just for the sake of dominating other animals. Bulls and moose and elk (and all other Lodge members!!!) head butt each other to show dominance; they don't mount each other in turn and copulate in order to do so. Animals, the same as people, are quite capable of doing things for purely sexual enjoyment, without that being falsely interpreted by you or anyone else as "just demonstrating dominance". Even inmates in prison, who indulge in homosexual activity with other inmates, must be somewhat inclined toward homosexuality, since they could do other things just to demonstrate dominance over them (such as beat them down!) or to obtain sexual pleasure (such as masturbate) and solidly straight men would never even consider having sexual activity with another man under any circumstances whatsoever!!! 2. You say that the rampant drug abuse among gay people "proves that gays are not happy", but, then, consistently, the same rampant drug abuse among straight people must also "prove that straight people aren't happy being straight, either". There are many reasons why straight and gay people abuse drugs, none of which have anything to do with unhappiness over their sexual orientation. That is consistent and logical thinking on the matter. 3. You say that gay suicides and venereal disease "prove an unshakable knowing deep down in every being that homosexuality is an aberration", but, again, consistently, by that same standard, suicides and venereal disease among straight people would also have to "prove an unshakable knowing deep down in every being that heterosexuality is an aberration". Once again, consistently, straight and gay people commit suicide and contract venereal diseases for many reasons, none of which have anything to do with their sexual orientation or unhappiness over it. "Normality" is in the eye of the beholder, the same as beauty, and you can't apply your standard of "normality" to everyone or anyone else, the same as you wouldn't want anyone else calling you abnormal. That is doing unto others as you would have others do unto you and loving your neighbors as yourself. Acceptance of gay people does make it better for them, the same as acceptance of yourself by other people makes things better for you. It is ridiculous to say that it doesn't!!! 4. Did somebody have to mentor you on how to be straight or did you figure it out on your own and it just came naturally to you? That is how gay people also figure out on their own how to be gay and it just comes naturally to them, without their needing to be "mentored", either. That idea that "gay people must be mentored into being gay" is very prejudicial and bigoted!!! Once again, you wouldn't want anyone's saying such things about you and so it is just doing unto others as you would have others do unto you for you not to do so to them, either.
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William Tarrest
Obviously, I meant "without sticking their genitalia into each other", to correct my statement.
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Don
Is it just me, or is anybody else getting turned on by this?
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Stephanie Willey
The story is about Drag Queens. All Drag Queens are NOT gay just as all pharmacists, or all Catholic priests, or all hair stylists are NOT gay. SOME Drag queens are gay, SOME are even Transgender, and many are heterosexual men. Equating Drag with gay as this article implies and many here, like Mr Owens states is stating a falsehood. That man from Nazareth ( Jesus ) did NOT teach us homophobia. He taught us all something quite the opposite.
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John Owens
Where did Mr. Owens equate Drag with gay?
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John Owens
I'll ask again, Where did Mr. Owens equate Drag with gay? Why is it that people on this blog keep inventing things?
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John Owens
No answer? No retraction? What is this? CNN?
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John Owens
I realize I am nowhere near a perfect human, but the way some of you people just tell outright lies is reprehensible.
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Quasi
You obviously know nothing of the Gay Leather Underground. #winkwink
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Jennifer
Actually it sounds like he knows all about the Gay Leather Underground and prefers it.
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Sister Ann
I am most assuredly with you!
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Minister Bill
With whom?
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Dr. David
What gay agenda? How do you know they are gay? Almost of the drag queens that I know are heterosexual men who enjoy wearing women's clothes. Yes, there are plenty of gay men doing it as well and you probably even know some and don't realize it. Perhaps one is your friend and when they are not with you they are in drag. Many work so hard to look like a woman that you don't know they are men, they are quite beautiful.
Grow up and accept that people are different than you and are not trying to change children and all the other creep being spouted here. They are doing something good for the community and if you don't like it don't go, why ruin it for others because you disagree?
I disagree with your church, but if you want to buy into that foolishness good for you. I don't condemn you, and take you to court, or anyone else for attending something I disagree with and you should learn the same.
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Shane Lowrey
"Keep men manly and rugged, thats what i like." Then, try a leather bar rather than a drag show. To each their own.
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Janmac
Absolutely - maybe it will eventually stem some of the "phobia" and stigmas surrounding them. If the children our exposed early, it could change maybe? Besides which, the library is for learning - it isn't mandatory - don't come if you don't want your child exposed and it's YOUR duty to bring your child up in the religion you want - not the other way around.
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John Owens
This is not going to end well.
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Katelynne Victoria Shouse
Drag Away, baby.....keep up the Fantabulous work!!!!
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Walt
You are SICK! DRAG QUEENS have no place in public, much less around our kids.
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Matt Meteski
Yeah, those perverts! Godly men like President Trump, Justice Kavanaugh, and Roy Moore should have story hour. Kids need role play
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Gary
Once again no facts Matt, please consider that next time you talk
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CHARLES A COOK
The "facts" are that all three of those men are misogynist perverts.
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Lionheart
Spoken like the true misandrist you obviously are, Charles.
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John Owens
Good one, Lionheart.
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Minister Bill
Hum. President Trump at one time proudly stated the he was a close friend of a proven pedophile. Then denied he ever said it. Gee, those perverts. Which ones?
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Matt Meteski
sorry, typo. I meant role models
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Gary
Typo's ok I make many just statements without facts are not
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warjna
Gary, what "facts" need to be supplied here? Three names were give, identifying the three as "godly men", and stating that the three should have story hour. Do we need to document the names? Do we need to document the need for them to have a story hour? Or do we need to document that they each are "godly men"? I would think the third would need documenting. Because recent events seem to be proving the opposite.
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Norma Battes
Matt Meteski October 25, 2018 at 4:29 pm " sorry, typo. I meant role models "
Actually, in Roy Moore's case allegedly the kids did have role play.
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Antonia
As I always say: If there’s something anti-gay coming out of your mouth then there’s probably something very gay going in someplace else.
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Cleocatrajones
This! <3
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Minister Bill
Don't punish the children for sheltered beliefs. Sorry folks. "All are welcome in my home". The way to salvation is open to all. If a person is willing to teach children to read, leave them alone. Do they proselytize the gay lifestyle? I highly doubt that. What next, shield the children from the air for fear of antibiotic resistant flu?
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Minister Bill
Yes, I know how the flu bug is spread. So, don't bother.
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Gary
Yes you are correct it is open to all but only one way as im sure you agree
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Minister Bill
Pardon? One way?
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flugo
Take your repulsive, abnormal, sinful and degrading outlook on life and keep it to yourself. NO one needs to be blighted with your filthy, immoral propaganda. NO ONE!
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Minister Bill
Immoral? Your view of the lord is non accepting? Hum? Shame on you sir or mam.
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John Owens
Our Lord did not teach that this is good.
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Carl Elfstrom
He didn't have to teach men to wear dresses. He wore one himself. And so did his twelve gay (merry) apostles. What a sight for sore eyes that must have been. It didn't even matter back then. Everyone did it! And they didn't even have a single word meaning homosexual, but some men liked to share their beds with other men. And no, they weren't only sleeping. One friend of mine put it best when he told me that he and a friend were "Just dicking around." Too many people blow things out of proportion, and are overdramatic, in this day and age.
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Minister Bill
Ah John Owens yet again. The man that will not see. Treat others as you would be treated. Dine with your own killer. Forgive those you believe to be in sin. Forgive those that are helping children to read? Man, you will never get over your own hypocrisy will you? No, I don't want you to answer. If you are the same John Owens I write about you refuse to see that which is before you. I cannot council you or save you. That is a weight upon you own shoulders and Atlas himself could not bear the load.
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Tina McDaniel
but he did teach to love one another as you love yourself .
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John Owens
Bill, point out EXACTLY what you are calling my hypocrisy, PLEASE!
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Lionheart
Wasn’t your lord the first drag queen. I only ever see him depicted in a dress with long hair :)
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John Owens
Lionheart, yes, He is often depicted as having soft-looking eyes, long slightly reddish or light brown hair, a robe, and a beard, but by occupation He should have at least been rugged-looking, and by heritage, should have been swarthy and dark-haired.
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John Owens
I guess Bill realized he only imagined my hypocrisy, since he hasn't pointed it out.
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Minister Bill
John Owens. I posted no reply because whatever I could post you would deny. Always. You have done this in the past and I see no reason you would not do it now or in future discourse. As to hypocrisy. Tell me sir. What then are your "beliefs'?
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John Owens
"Minister" Bill, it is asinine of you to accuse me of hypocrisy and not show where I have been guilty of it. I will inform you that the mere accusation of it could easily be construed as hypocrisy on YOUR part, since you have no answer except to dissemble and deflect. That would mean you do not judge yourself nearly as rigorously as you judge others.
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Minister Bill
John Owens I do not imagine your hypocrisy. Do you in fact believe in some version of the bible? If I still think with your non stop denials of any proofs that you claim as inadequate or false science that conflict with your personal views that I think would include "acceptance of even the lepers and outcasts" ? "Hypocrite". Or do I in fact owe you some type of an apology? Hum? Bring unto me all your brethren, all are children before God? hum. Or does John Owens not have that in his faith? Hum? Help me out here. I am sure your fans would love to know.
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Iconoclast
Bill thinks you are a hypocrite because you do not agree with him, although what he actually believes is unclear.
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Minister Bill
To John Owens again. I may retract "hypocrisy". However I will stick with your views seem to agree with no one. Ever. You again and again refute everyone and argue or rather seem to deny any and all other views. You dismiss scientific works as "false science". You claim all proof as invalid. Does it never seem to you that you may be wrong? I though hypocrite may have applied assuming you to be "a good Christian" that would espouse fellowship and love of thy neighbors. I am not sure you have posted acceptance? I have no further time for you. Play with the other fellows for now, this seems to be your pastime, writing to incite. So, enjoy, have a great life, peace.
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John Owens
I have never dismissed science, Bill. I dismiss your childish interpretation of science. Not sure what science you mean, exactly, but if you say people are born trans, or gay, I'll dismiss that, and science agrees with ME. You have to twist science to make it say otherwise. For science to be considered science, it first has to be honest, then observable, then demonstrable and repeatable. Nobody can dismiss that. You have not presented any like that with which I have disagreed. Any time someone presents something "scientific" on here, I look into it, read what the scientific reviews say about it. They NEVER say what is being presented here. NOT ONCE. Sometimes they have some desperate speculation. Nothing more. Yes, I could be wrong, have been wrong, but very seldom wrong about anything I say here, no matter how unpopular it is with the New Agers. Yeah, you take off. Best thing for you and people like you.
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Minister Bill
Again John Owens? You prove my point.
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John Owens
The only point you have would be your head, Bill.
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DonBiase
Never in a million years
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Carol Carter
People complaining because someone does something good for the kids, yet do you see the straight people donating time to read like this? How about we appreciate people that want to help children and try to follow in their footsteps
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Bert Dithers
If the children and their parents are alright with, blessings all over it.
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Norma Battes
Bert Dithers October 31, 2018 at 12:07 pm " If the children and their parents are alright with, blessings all over it. "
There appear to be quite a few adults in the background. I would think the library system would have ended the program if there were no participation, much less a string of other venues across the nation adopting it. Gender issues aside, one by-line behind this is, people that read more generally have a broader understanding and acceptance of differences. It is the cloistered minds that have the hardest time understanding the nuances of humanity.
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Minister Bill
Yet another well earned Amen!
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Dan Maida
The children's parents need to make better decisions
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John Owens
Yes.
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Minister Bill
To think, a person reading to children would raise such a fervor. Were I to wear a Pope costume and read to children, would that cause as much fetid feedback and "perceived societal disorder"?
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John Owens
Equally as frightening, I would think. Priests and nuns are creepy.
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Rev. John D. Partin
"Priests and nuns are creepy". Yes, there is certainly no bigotry against Catholics in you, huh, Owens?!!! People are always saying that some other people are "creepy" or some other thing against them without that proving, according to you and your ilk, that they are bigoted against those people. Your own words prove that you are bigoted against Catholics, gays, Muslims, liberals, equal rights for all people supporters, and many other groups, no matter how much you deny it.
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John Owens
Partin, you are the bigoted person here. I have not spoken one bigoted word against gays, nor Catholics as a whole-- only priests and nuns. Some of my closest friends have been Catholics, but not priests or nuns. That goes for Anglicans and Greek Orthodox, too. If you don't think they are creepy, that's your problem. They dress weird. Not unusually, not uniquely, WEIRD. They take vows of CELIBACY, which only a few can actually fulfill faithfully.
Muslims-- maybe I am bigoted, maybe I am realistic. It's funny that you take up for Muslims. Shows how stupid you are. Any practicing Muslim thinks you should be KILLED, period. That's just part of the absolute lunacy of liberalism. You would rather accuse ME of bigotry, and I just disagree with you, than Muslims, who want to KILL you.
The fact you say, "you and your ilk" shows that you are the bigot. When you say "ilk" you are talking like a bigot. The very word is bigotry, in that you refer to any group as "ilk", and classify me in that group. Why don't you go and suck up to Maher and T, and stop worrying about me? They'll probably agree with you and make you feel good about yourself again, until you look in the mirror, that is.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Owens, a person, such as you, saying bigoted things against priests and nuns or anybody else, while at the same time also calling me or anyone else "bigoted", is not only still the really bigoted one here, but self-deceived as well!!! "Some of my closest friends have been Catholics" again sounds like the old white racist line "Some of my best friends are black people", as I told you once before. You can't be against people's spiritual leaders (be they Catholic, Anglican, or Greek or Russian Orthodox) and not also, actually, be against those people themselves, too, anymore than someone could be against your denomination's leadership or your particular minister and not really be against you, too. "Weird" is in the eye of the beholder and not defined by you for all other people, the same as you want to define "right" sexual activity for all other people. I'm certain that many people would say that your clothing, if it is typical of motorcycle club members, generally, is "weird" (those same snobs against MC members that I wrote to you about before), but the same as you don't accept their view of your clothing and lifestyle as valid, priests and nuns shouldn't accept your view of their clothing and way of life as valid and neither should lay Catholics accept your views about their spiritual leaders as valid. If it "right", according to you, to call priests and nuns "creepy" and "weird" because of their garments, then, by the same standard, it is "right" to call you "creepy" and "weird" because of your garments and clothing, too. I'm certain that you don't really want to get into that whole name-calling contest with priests and nuns and them and Catholics' doing the same to you, back and forth, (or shouldn't want to, anyway), considering your own appearance and lifestyle!!! "Why do you comment on the speck in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the beam in your own eye?" (to paraphrase). "Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone". "Judge not by the appearance, but judge a righteous judgment". Live and let live. Why shouldn't priests and nuns dress differently than other people or non-priests and non-nuns, since they are doing different work than these other people? Don't chefs wear different outfits and hats than non-chefs, without your also, hopefully, calling chefs "weird"? Don't policemen wear different uniforms than non-policemen, without your calling them "weird"? Don't soldiers in the Army or Marines or Naval officers or enlisted personnel, generally, wear different uniforms than non-military personnel, without your calling them "weird", too? Don't cowboys wear cowboy boots and cowboy hats and different cowboy clothing than non-cowboys, without all of them being "weird", according to you? Don't ballerinas wear different outfits than non-ballerinas, without your calling them "weird"? Don't Amish people (getting back to religion) dress differently than non-Amish people, without their being, hopefully, "weird", according to you, too? The list goes on and on and on!!! If all of these other people can dress differently than you do or than "normal", without that making them "weird" or "creepy", according to you, why should priests and nuns be singled out from among all of these people by you for calling "weird" and "creepy", except because of your particular bigotry against Catholics and especially Catholic leaders?!!! Deny that as much as you like, but the truth comes out in your continuing to single these people out from among all other people who dress differently for calling "weird" and "creepy"!!! Why should all people dress or look the same, anyway, when variety is the spice of life and not the curse of life, as you and other conservatives and xenophobes make it out to be!!!! "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" excludes the practice of calling other people's clothing or way of life "weird" or "creepy" when you wouldn't want them to do that to you!!!!! As for "any practicing Muslim thinking that I should be killed", if that were really true, all actually practicing Muslims would be committing acts of terrorism, instead of that only being done by the lunatic fringe of Islam. As I said before, all the Muslims in the world didn't attack the World Trade Center, but only those 19 terrorists did. That wouldn't be the case at all if ALL Muslims wanted to kill me and other non-Muslims; in fact, it would be reversed with only 19 Muslims in the world abstaining from terrorism and all other Muslims in the world indulging in it!!!! Even you should be able to see that that isn't the case at all!!!! I have no difficulty at all in preferring a peaceful and loving and accepting Muslim over an unaccepting and hateful and non-peaceful conservative such as yourself because I don't indiscriminately lump all Muslims together, as you ignorantly do!!! "Maybe you are bigoted"? Definitely, you are bigoted against Muslims!!! I'm not certain at all that we really want to accuse all Muslims of being "terrorists" and "wanting to kill everybody", considering our own Christian history of torture and murder of those who disagreed with us, since that is the pot's calling the kettle "black"!!!
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Rev. John D. Partin
The person who actually wrote this post, under my name because he is TOO COWARDLY!!!! to use his own, probably has gone out walking in public wearing a priest's cassock, with nothing on under it, and blessing people and is simply describing his own experiences and preferences or, at least, his fantasies!!!
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Ava
No i would not take my kids to see that. This os whats wrong in the world today nobody stands up as Christian with Christ read your Bible on homosexuality yes you love the person and hate the sin, thats for all of us who sin. These kids are given the message in school secular and Christian schools that homosexuality is ok even in some churches today the pulpit promote it and its sad and gone be worse when He comes back and destroy the world as he did Sodom and Gomorrah. Read your Bible King James with understanding and good exegesis of the truth.
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The Doctor
Oh my were do I begin because this is going to be fun.
Lets see, well to begin with this is a site for all people of faith and an open mind able to accept that others may practice different faiths does not make them opponents.
That only happens when someone like yourself acting as a terrible representative of your branch of faith speaks as if only your faith is relevant.
Your god will never dare return to this world for I walk this world and your god fears me more then you fear its divine wrath. Know this as sure as the sun will rise with each new day.
Theologians from across the world and many faiths agree that the story of Sodom was in no way a condemnation of Homosexuality but instead is a fable about welcoming strangers into your home as family rather then treat them as outsiders to be abused.
Ah here we get to the root of your cloistered archaic egocentric view. The King James version of the bible in no way represents the actual ancient teachings you claim to be an adherent of. King James himself ordered the bible edited, entire sections re written to favor his personal wants as divine mandates, and in general act as propaganda for a church backed monarchy. Anyone that reads that book and treats it as scripture rather then a piece of historical text highlighting the real issue with and danger of monarchist and monotheist putting their idea of a divine king on a throne rather then deal with society and civilization as a functional individual.
You are free to have your god and dismiss all others, but you best do it in privacy or make enemies of all that do not kneel to your unseen master.
So maybe try reading well anything other then that version of the bible. try studying ancient latin and read a copy of a version from an era far closer to the lifetime and teachings of Jesus the man you call messiah.
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Cleocatrajones
He will not be coming back Ava. Some serious food for thought that's heavily based on common sense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5_P2F2o01c&list=PLMPlp9nqGMrs6JDvetDqrGA4DdBvS-1fK&index=103&t=0s
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Minister Bill
Finally, one who see's.
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Daniel Adams
I am whatever I am in the privacy of my love life. Whether gay or straight should have no place in schools or any other place involving little children. The subject of who certain people like to fuck has no place in the classroom. That is for the bedroom.
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Rev. John D. Partin
I wonder if your MOTHER!!! wore panties under her fishnets while she was out hooking on the streets!!!
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Rev. John D. Partin
Was your MOTHER!!! also into bestiality and being sodomized by them?!!!
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"Mary Had a Little Glam" BWAH HA HA HA !