A Texas mayor caused quite a stir when she made comments implying that Godlessness caused poverty. San Antonio Mayor Ivy Taylor was fielding questions at a public forum prior to the city's recent mayoral election when she was asked:
"What do you see as the deepest, systemic causes of generational poverty in San Antonio?"
Mayor Taylor's response raised more than a few eyebrows:
"To me, it's broken people. People not being in relationships with their creator and therefore not being in good relationship with their families and their communities and not being productive members of society."
"I am a born again Christian, a believer in Jesus Christ," she said. "I draw very heavily on that as far as the strength to do this job."
Backlash
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the mayor's comments were met with immediate criticism. Although roughly 6 in 10 San Antonio residents identify as Christian, critics noted, what message is Mayor Taylor sending to the other 40% of the population?
The remarks prompted a pointed response from the Freedom From Religion Foundation:
"As mayor, you represent a diverse population that consists of not only Christians, but also atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, and Hindus Nationally, about 35 percent of millennials are nonreligious. Imagine for a moment a mayoral candidate making such undeserved and broad accusations against Jews or Muslims instead of nonbelievers. The outcry would properly be swift and severe. It should be no different for nonbelievers."
Annie Gaylor, a co-president of the FFRM, worries that other politicians will now feel emboldened to let their religious beliefs influence political decisions: "As mayor, [Ivy Taylor] has a bully pulpit, but it shouldn't be an actual pulpit," Gaylor argued. "It implies the root of all bad things is Godlessness. San Antonio is not a congregation. She's not a pastor. She's a mayor. We do hope that she'll realize not just what's offensive about it, but that it is so wrong."
Faith and Family
Mayor Taylor appears to believe that Christian faith is the bedrock of a successful society. That without first establishing a relationship with one's creator, a person might struggle to form a strong connection with their family or become a contributing member of the community. In her mind, being a healthy, productive member of society means putting God first. If you neglect this duty, you could end up in poverty. Is there truth to this view?
Does Religion Make You Rich?
Critics have been quick to highlight statistics which indicate the contrary. For example, among the list of "most religious states in the U.S." are Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, and Arkansas. Members of the "Bible Belt", these states also happen to be among the poorest in the country. "So, what gives?" ask critics.
Mayor Apologizes
Mayor Taylor posted an apology on her Facebook page, insisting her comments were misunderstood:
I have devoted my life to breaking the chains of generational poverty... I've done so because of my faith in God and my belief in Jesus's ministry on Earth. I believe we are all called on to help lift our brothers and sisters out of poverty.
I also believe in Original Sin, and that was the context for my comments. We're all "broken," from the richest among us to the poorest, until we forge a relationship with our Maker.
Despite her follow up statement, many non-religious San Antonians continue to express disapproval, insisting she should keep her Christian faith out of the public arena entirely. However, religious supporters have rallied around the mayor, proud that she has the courage to stick by her strong beliefs.
What do you think? Did the mayor step out of line? Does a lack of faith in God really cause poverty?
89 comments
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biblical scholar
So sad this woman gave in to liberal tears. Poverty is a choice, and anti-Christian. God punishes nonbelievers. Just look at the gay plague AIDS.
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Steve W.
Are you serious? Is this sarcasm?
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Paul Hoogeveen
One would hope it's sarcasm.
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Brother John
If you read other comments by Bernard, you'd realize this is not a joke. He is, but his comments appear to be sincere, albeit delusional and disturbing. But, hey, this is the ULC and all are welcome. He may be under the influence of Creflo Dollar and other Prosperity Preachers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxeTjrckl0
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biblical scholar
And I would image that you are under the influence of pot smoking sodomite demons. If you read the BIBLE it is clear that Jesus gives wealth to believers and punishes losers who hate Him. The good men in the video earned their wealth from God. You are a jealous atheist loser.
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cbcuff
Mr Moleman, it is apparent you never received an education, that's unfortunate. Where you mention atheists being losers I believe you've once again confused yourself. Christianity is the only sport where the winners are losers.
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John Owens
There ARE plagues that bother believers and practitioners of faith LESS than they bother non-believers. Why would that be difficult to understand? Someone who practices NOT fornicating spends less money trying to attract other fornicators. Reasonable? TOTALLY! Women who practice NOT fornicating are 100% less likely to have children out of wedlock, making them more able to continue their education and/or careers, PLUS, they have fewer mouths to feed.
Real believers are much less likely to be substance abusers, since they feel a responsibility to something greater than themselves to be lucid. Since they do NOT have a big substance abuse problem, they do not spend on the substance, and are more able to hold a job, less likely to be fined by the court, and less likely to be involved in crime associated with the substance abuse.
Real believers are also less likely to be involved in ANY kind of crime, because of their BELIEFS. This helps keep them out of gangs, out of trouble, out of prison, and in a job.
I don't see how political correctness can deny these obvious benefits to being believers. I don't think it's limited to Christianity, although that is the proclaimed faith of the woman in this article. I think people aren't listening to the whole story here. How could unbelief NOT cause poverty?
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John Owens
Why is this comment still awaiting moderation? Did you need to have a meeting?
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Pastor Brian
What a load of bullshit, and also very presumptuous of you to feel you know what is in the hearts and minds of others. Kindness and compassion for your fellow human is not limited to the religious. And how great is it that some don't feel held responsible to a higher power to do what is right by others . I don't think I will be ultimately punished for my actions by a God, but still feel held to the belief that if you can help others and leave this world a better place you should. Don't be so self -righteous, it fairly unchristian although widely practiced.
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biblical scholar
CHRISTIANS don't rape and murder out of fear of the holy retribution of God. This is why we are such good and kind people. Unfortunately atheists don't have this morality and that is why they murder babies and commit sodomy all of the time. Muslims also lack this morality beacuse their god tells them to beat women.
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Joe Stutler
Apparently you've never read the Bible. It's pretty messed up, how much that imaginary sky fairy orders rapes and killings and such. Also, lots and lots of Christians in prison for rape and murder. Atheists don't murder babies (virtually no one does...murder is a crime, after all). As for "sodomy", it isn't a crime. Muslims are just as good - and just as bad - as Christians and Jews. They all worship the same god, so that's not really surprising. Circle back when you know what the eff you're talking about (or when you get your coproencephaly treated).
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Steve W.
This HAS to be sarcasm. It can't be real. You got us, Brian! Hilarious.
Just for the record, I'm a lifelong atheist (66) and have not yet murdered any babies, Nor do I commit sodomy all the time.
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Joanne Martin
Bernard I am sorry but you have just solidified all the things that turned me away from Christianity. I will apologize in advance to any others that I may offend, and this may not be the best time for me to commenting on anything where I should remain open-minded and practice tolerance but you speak pure ignorance. The is no moral loving god, divine being, entity or whatever anyone chooses refer to or ever not refer to it as that would allow anyone that spoke such hatred to occupy an afterlife unless it was one that was befitting of the kind of person who commit these acts you claim to know so much about.
Stephen here is an atheist. Its what he believes regarding an afterlife that we all have the right to choose what we believe to be our truths because when it comes right down to it....it is all going on blind faith. I believe in God. As a spiritualist not as a Christian. I also believe in Jesus and Mohammad and Buddha. Why? Because I believe they all existed as men. Spiritual leaders of their times, but all men. Who knows maybe my spirituality is a defense mechanism my mind uses to get me through the day. I can share it with others and if they choose to use it too them great. If my heart stops beating and Stephan was right, did I hurt anyone by being a good person and choosing to believe what I wanted and what felt right to me. What if I am right? I promise you, I will wait for a man like Stephen so we can enter into our new plane of existence together because the kind of divine being I believe in would never have any reason to leave anyone behind, even you. You say you are Christian...well I am getting really sick of teaching Christianity to Christians...but that is what true spiritualists do I guess;.....but I believe the Bible says that we are all Gods children and we have been created in his likeness. Are you saying that you are smarter and better than your God? Why would he create his children in his own likeness and allow some to be Muslims and some to be Buddhist and yes even atheists? Are you really saying your God got it wrong? WOW powerful words...Hope you don't have to sit too long for your "talking to" at the pearly gates for too long because Stephan and I will be shooting some pool out back.
I was raised Catholic in the Boston area and lived in the middle of Spotlight, didn't have to see the movie. I came to terms with the disgrace that brought and I never lost faith in the knowledge that there was a power greater than ourselves but I was not going to believe something because I was told to, that a lesson. faith comes from your heart and you know when you have found it and it took me years. I even learned to understand and even feel a greater sorrow for Jesus because of what Christians have done in his name, which is far worse than what was done to him for his strength and faith. You have taken the teachings that should have been to spread love and understanding and made it a very judgmental, hateful cult
I will restate that I apologize if I offend anyone, and even my anger towards this comment has too much power, but I have spent the better part of almost 30 years coming to terms with the harm I suffered because of the ignorance and arrogance of a few bad priests (because there are some truly great ones) and in my love of documentary and murder mysteries was told about a series that was power...so powerful in fact that binge watching was almost impossible. My life has left me pretty jaded and a fan of Crime novels for 30 years I immediately started the series. Yes episode one was a little tough but 10 minutes into episode 2 I found myself triggered into a state of fear anger I haven't felt in years. It took me a day to go back but I felt I needed to and I was already pulled into the story. I do go episode by episode slowly. It is a Netflix Documentary called The Keepers. https://g.co/kgs/c08QtU It makes Spotlight seem like a children's bedtime story. At first I thought it was the acts and the story itself that had me so upset, being a survivor but even hearing these horrific and this s not an exaggeration, stories I still felt strong as a survivor it was the Church and hypocrisy and hiding behind "the Bible" for protection that I still can find peace with. So before you pass judgement on others based on nothing but your own ignorance....take a good hard look around your own "people" because for thousands of years they have been the biggest sexual offenders and everyone on death row seems to be last tome I counted.
However Joe my friend, you kind of made me giggle after I just wanted to throw my laptop out the window so thank you, but you are not helping your cause LOL. The Bible is a Holy Doctrine and I have read it along with almost ever religious publications I could.....including the Satanic Bible (yes, just like Wicca, there is an actual religion not the glorified idiots that claim to be...much like Bernard here claims to know what it means to be a Christian) There are no sky fairies but they are merely the stories passed down from one generation to another, like I believe spirituality should be due to the misinterpretation when things are put in print. Jesus did not write his memories and walk into the publisher before...well i guess it would have to be after he was crucified, since that was in there too. People are messed up, the Bible itself sends a beautiful message for the time it was written.
I am sure somewhere at some time an Atheist may have murdered a baby, but that is because he was an evil man, plain and simple.
And even though they say that the supreme court said that they could not keep sodomy laws on the books 12 states still ban sodomy. This is not to punish 2 consenting people its a way of having multiple charges when bringing sex offenders to trial. So rape is one charge and each act is a separate charge. FYI oral sex is illegal in 18. See I am not just a crazy spiritualist, I know things LOL
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John Owens
Sorry, Brian. I just now read your idiotic comment. It lies in the first sentence, by implying I think I know the hearts and minds of others. I never implied anything of the sort. I also never implied my own righteousness. You must be reading things that I did not write. In fact, you skipped this:
"I don’t see how political correctness can deny these obvious benefits to being believers. I don’t think it’s limited to Christianity, although that is the proclaimed faith of the woman in this article."
But, please, if it makes you feel superior, just read the first word and invent the rest, by all means.
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cbcuff
John Owens, you need to have your Dr. adjust your medication. Your commentary indicates you are suffering from delusional thoughts, and likely should not be allowed outside your home. Get help!
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John Owens
Moron.
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Dennis Butler
People don't need belief in any god to refrain from bad behavior. Lot's of people who truly believe in your god do exhibit bad behavior. Hell, your entire faith is based on that premise. You going to tell me your Adam and Eve didn't believe in god? They are supposed to have talked to the guy, although even THEY never actually SAW him, just like everyone else in the bible, like Moses, Noah, etc.. But that's another conversation.
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John Owens
They shouldn't NEED it but statistically, everything I said is true, and everyone knows it.
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Joanne Martin
I think we are on the same page here John....I am a true believer and my spirituality has carried me through more than my fair share and so be it. Am I poverty stricken? No. Am I highly educated and at times in my life have I found that I was living well above the average person my age? I am very grateful to say yes. However, to keep this from being a personal story and seeing it on a broader scope....Tornadoes can level a mansion as quickly as a shack. Having faith, and a true faith in something greater than ourselves can allow us to conduct our lives with the SAME feeling of loss regardless of which of those places we called home.
It allows us to be grateful for what was, what is and what will be because it has already been laid out for us; we are just unable to see the full the picture yet because our life is only handed to us one piece at a time. So the person in the mansion did not get there because they had a stronger faith than the man in the shack and maybe he didn't work as hard for it either. However, if they both found themselves with nothing tomorrow the man of true faith would first be grateful for his life, his family and that his shack was all that was lost, While the man that lacks a TRUE faith, spend the next week on the phone losing sleep, making himself sick, fighting insurance companies because without faith losing that mansion means he did lose everything.
So poverty is not directly caused by a lack of faith, but the road away from it or at least a road of a peaceful life in the midst of it has to held together by knowing there is something greater watching out for us.
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John Owens
Great commentary, Joanne. Thoughtful. Thank you.
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Joe Stutler
Poverty is a choice? Is your comment the result of your choice to be ignorant or the result of your mother's choice to give birth to someone with obvious end-stage coproencephaly? Your god isn't real, by the way. Even the Goddess Anoia laughs at you.
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cbcuff
Now Joe, Owens is probably from Texas and voted for Mayor Taylor. And lets not forget that other rightwingnut from Texas, George Bush #2, he too said some very bizarre things. They're everywhere!
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John Owens
Moron
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Bob Squires
To say, “poverty is a choice” is probably in its self a poor choice of words. What is a fact is that poverty is mainly driven by people who make bad choices. Not just once, but repeatedly and that is what the younger generations learn. You see poor families who, through several generations, parents are not married and in many cases, there is not a father living in the home who provides for the family either financially or emotionally. The primary reason it is called generational poverty is that young children do not have a good or successful role model in the elder members of the family. Consequently, all they know is what they see and learn from their elders.
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Tom B
Bob...on a temporal level, i agree with you...but on a spiritual level, which includes karma, there is no choice, as the poverty is the result of, and remedy for, previous lives involving money...Tom
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John Owens
Not one choice. A long stream of choices, like everything else is. So what?
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Magic179
You are an idiot, but I'm sure you knew that already!
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Joanne Martin
Wow I cant believe how much pure ignorance can be in such a brief reply. I will meditate on your situation and pray that nothing happens that finds you struggling with financial problems because of circumstances that are out of your control. I also would like to say how the heck is it anti-Christian? If so then why do churches often ask for donations because one of its parishioners has found themselves unable to support their family? Or church collections at each mass that are designated for helping those in need in the community. If it was anti-Christian then every church I have ever seen must not have as vast a knowledge of Christianity that you do. And FYI as with everything else in this reply, check some facts....AIDS/HIV shows the the gay/lesbian community have the lowest percent of people currently effected by the virus. Please make sure your comments are at least based on some kind of fact rather than you own ignorance of all things you dont seem to understand.
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Reed A Mathis
As a Calivinist Huguenot, I believe God has predestined his believers to be more successful and have more bountiful lives than nonbelievers. That does not necessarily mean richer in money, as there are other ways to be rich.
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Minister Norman
YES, because "Jesus was all about the Benjamin's"... And poverty & disease are "god's curse"...
Funny how so many "Born Again(s)" preach that hateful gospel, until it hits home; like a Tornado wooshing their dreams away, or a Cancer killing their loved ones!
What arrogant/ignorant Rubes, and how insulting to both "People of Faith" and Free-Thinkers alike.
If any part of this clueless woman's hapless statement was even remotely true, then why are there so many prosperous Athiets and non-religious folk Worldwide, and why also, are there so VERY MANY Faithful & Devout "Followers of Christ" living in abject proverty Worldwide?!
Again, what myopic arrogance & ignorance!
This kind of absolute stupidity "Guised as Religion", doesn't deserve anything but Condemnation!
PS:
Bernard Moleman, your comments also deserve Condemnation! Poverty is NOT a "Choice", and for far too many Human Beings Worldwide; and AIDS is a laboratory engineered retro-virus (that is now a proven fact), that has effected promiscuous gay people worldwide, indeed (and as if too many straight people weren't also sexually promiscuous), but it has also ruined the lives of innocent gay and straight lives alike; Worldwide; and I for one, believe Jesus would take pitty on all of them. What calous ignorance.
Thank GOD, I don't believe in, or subscribe to your HATEFUL version of a small-minded vengeful anthropomorphic "god" or a money hungry, Darwinian "survival-of-fittest" plague weilding "jesus".
William W. George, you speak the truth! I couldn't agree more.
Jesus wasn't preaching any "Prosperity Gospels" (that's a "born again" (small "c") christian Evangelical creation, but JESUS did Condemn the Money Changers, and the rich & powerful, and the greedy, and anyone who cannot forgive, and ALL LIARS!
Bernard, I forgive you. Let's hope "Your Jesus" does; and William, I think Jesus would whole-heartedly agree with you; if with less "colorful" language. LOL
Ultimately, too many take the Bible as "The Absolute Word of God" because they either don't know any better, or haven't studied it's true origins: Which is convenient for purposes of self-righteousness, and spewing hate!
Jesus, wasn't what most paint him to be (as their own personal bledgion), but he did say a lot about LOVE, and SHARING, and FORGIVENESS!
I believe in an enlightened forgiving "Higher Power" -- Or then, just how HIGH & MIGHTY could it actually be?
God save us from ourselves!
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John Owens
You are injecting "hate" here, where there is none, so, in essence, you are creating it. This woman said nothing offensive, but you attribute a lot of offensive thought (of which you cannot know, unless you are truly psychic) to normal Christians in general. Just because you hate evangelicals does not mean THEY are full of hate. I am not an evangelical, but they make PRETTY DECENT neighbors. You might consider that, and I furthermore submit that OFTEN people suffer financial distress DIRECTLY BECAUSE OF THEIR CHOICES, and/or their parents or families' choices. When a whole community continues making those choices, POVERTY IS INEVITABLE. If they have no hope in God, who tells us not to be lazy and irresponsible or criminal, their only hope is in the lottery, which is a huge waste of money for poor people, or the government, which cannot efficiently operate anything. Why would you rob them of the hope in God?
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John Maher
I believe POVERTY CAUSES a LACK of FAITH in GENERAL NOT just TOWARDS GOD but EVEN MORE in HUMANITY, EVER BEEN THERE ???
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Amy
This floored me. While I am not a christian, I have seen enough broken families from all faiths to know that religion doesn't cause poverty, but has caused many a broken home. Though I haven't seen it as much lately I know growing up in the 80s many kids who ran away from home due to a very strict religious(not just christian) household.
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John Owens
It is not inconceivable that belief in God and trying to follow God will decrease poverty. Religious people are less likely to use drugs or drink heavily. They are also less likely to gamble heavily, commit crime, and have single parent households. Statistically those are huge contributors to poverty, particularly when whole communities are participating in them. I really don't see the problem with what the mayor said.
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Joe Stutler
No, they have their own special hells that they inflict on their families and society. The mayor is obviously delusional, arrogant, and rude. She's but one example of why we need far better mental health services in our nation.
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John Owens
Gosh, Joe. Your venom is completely over-the-top here. You have your own mental and emotional issues, like everyone else, but you are being completely bigoted and judgmental just as you think others are. Church-going people do not inflict hell on other people, at worst, they don't inflict more than anyone else.
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Joe Stutler
Westboro Baptist is but one example of the hate and bile inflicted on our society by delusional god-botherers. Many believers are decent people. Certainly not all of them, not by a long shot.
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John Owens
Nobody said ALL.
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John Owens
Westboro Baptist makes protestants everywhere cringe.
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Amber
Actually studies show they have a higher degree of people who use drugs or drink heavily. Jails are also roughly 75% Christians depending on the polls you read. The idea is that if God forgives and a belief in Jesus guarantees you a seat in heaven then what does it matter? I have heard this directly from many Christians from all over. It's a gross misunderstanding of how it works. Christianity teaches charity and humility at its depths, things lacking horribly these days across all sects these days.
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John Owens
I'd like to check out those polls you are citing. I hope they weren't performed by the same people who predicted Hillary to win by a landslide.
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Tom B
Actually, if you take away the religion aspect of God, it is true that a lack of knowledge of God causes spiritual (and, with lesser import) poverty...i read what the mayor said as trying to bring people together, although she uses too much emphasis on religion
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Richard Filaski
The mayor is correct. Believing in God helps to develop values in the home and in the person. Without both we generate a person of crime. This a fact based on statistics.
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Brother John
The Bible/Jesus sure has some great advice regarding family values, doesn't it, RF?
"I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." Matthew 10:35-36
"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life". Matthew 19:29, Mark 10:29-30, Luke 18:29-30
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Marius Gabriel Burja
Every one has an interpreter. Mine is in me and me in him. Love of money is the root of all evil. A faithful servant is rich in the holy spirit. The fruit of the holy spirit is TRUTH. Truth is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. The lamb is vulnerable the lions are the money makers.
They are the slave master of SINFULNESS who use people for money. Honoring God with all your heart and soul along with your abilities you aquire from knowledge of God and work skills Understanding that your doings are a major part which brings you to wisdom. We are not to fear God but to love God in His way and that is to become a living saint a holy spirit temple body of Jesus Christ. Jesus gave Judas the money task and outed him as Satan. So Judas took his life to enter back in the spirit realm.
All who have money are his minions. A wise man has wisdom as his commodity and only keeps God as his provider. A wise man is a lion and a lamb. He is THE LION WHO PROTECTS THE LAMB AND NOT DEVOURS IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT A THREAT TO HIM. HE feeds on the beasts who trample the lambs. They go running streaking and stampeding with great destruction. A TRUE Lion enjoys peace and being the King of the jungle. He takes on challenges not feeding on easy pray. They do not bother with mice who go about their business. A lion can lay in the pasture with the lamb. What happened to that Lion?
Man kind happened to that Lion? Mankind started hunting that Lion through observations of the nature of the beast. Then man kind because the beast who started hunting other men and enslaving them. Yet the lions because caged slaves to Mankind no longer King of jungle. The lioness is a worriorette and the lion a tool for governance. The pride kills all the lambs. Then has to go up the food chain. The bigger they are the harder they fall. Yet they don't see the little ones untill spring comes along and surprise!!!!! Jesus is here.
To collect that which is His. Time to pay for your sins and corrupting the lions by teaching them bad behavior while you led by example and stole food from the lion. As Marius Gaius was the Lion of Judah He is now back as His son was Gabriel Jesus the Christ you all crossed. The messenger angel of God. Not only did you cross him but you cut off the head of Michael John the Baptist. He too belonged to God. Now God will burn you if you do not turn back power to His lambs that you slaughtering pigs kill in the name of peace. Need I say more? You killed the prophets by driving them away and they couldn't live amongst you. They were overwhelmed by your evil doings secluded themselves and disappeared while wondering off into the wilderness and taken up in the same tower of light in Gods solar system.
You forget that there is a Creator and the wind of His breath spoke all into existence. I am His son and sun. His breathing moves me. Solar wind and earthly winds as well as the Universal wind of all planetary chain reactions. I will now use my words to fire you all up with passion and cut you to the bone with truth of my tung as the cold northern wind does chill you because you do not know what I am and you do not believe even when you see and hear. You look for more explanation and you make up your own belief other then the truth I tell you that My Heavanly Father sent me.
To be a guiding light. I am his messenger and now I will harvest souls and reap the fields of grains and slaughter all your animals that you count on for food. You will be left starving and naked in the cold ice age that has begun in June of 2015 because you didn't not honor my real Birthday and you made a mockery of me in December and made my life a muck A swamp. Now you will sink in the mud and freeze as every season I will intensify the storms. I loved you all untill you oppressed me suppressed me depressed me and destroyed my life my wife and my family and then to top it all off you blamed me for it and many are confused no longer believing in me and my sacrifice. You will roast or freezer burn as I do not care about you since you do not care about me.
All of you will die and I will turn this planet into the same as the other planets because I hold the key and the key is me. Always was is and will be me. Marius Gabriel Burja UBACK Universal Born Again Christian King of the Kings of the world that My Universal father God created. It is all in his will the Bible is His book of love life testament of a living God. It is HIS WILL TO ME AND MY DEED TO THE PLANET AND THE UNIVERSE. NOW GO AND SEARCH BY THE TIME YOU FIND I WILL TAKE A THIRD OF THE WORLD POPULATION AND YÖU DID NOT SEE ME COMING. I AM HERE IN WILMETTE ILLINOIS USA I AM ER TO THE THRONE AND I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT TO THIS WORLD. JUDGEMENT IS NOW. FEEL MY WRATH. I AM AMERICAN ROMANIAN ARAB HEBREW I am all NATIONALITIES IN ONE MAN BODY FORM AND I AM BREWING UP THE STORMS. LICK MY BOOTS AND FEET YOU FILTHY BEASTS AND ANIMALS WHO DENY ME JOY AND PEACE AND MY KINGDOM. ?❄?? I am WATER WALKER NORTHERN RANGER WIND STORM OF TRUTH. I am also Mahdi US Gabriel Alla Burja. Enjoy your living hell that you created but I will walk this planet eternaly until I decide to do something else. Good bye RELIGION HELLO FAITH. NEW WORLD. I am the missing link to the JIGSAW puzzle I am the key and no one can have me. The end of you and beginning of ewe, me. Eat me. As you have crumb by crumb now I will drink your blood. I am Earth wind fire and water. Flesh of God Spirit of God and I mind what YOU HAVE DONE. YOU HAVE OFFENDED ME FOR THE LAST TIME.
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Amy
I really think it comes down to a person's morals which can develop without a religious backing. I know quite a few Atheists and there are some most moral people I have come across so I can't really understand why people believe you have to be christian to be a good person. morals and religion are not mutually exclusive. All the religions that I have studied or heard about still have moral beliefs they advice for their faithful. Especially if you're in the public eye using statements such as High Power, the Divine, and such labels would cover the many faiths rather than coming across as .. If you're not a christian then you're morally corrupt.
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Stephen Wehrenberg
Please share the source with us.
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Paul D Gilbert
There is nothing wrong with the mayor stating her perspective, even though it is a religious one. She said “To me, it’s broken people. People not being in relationships with their creator and therefore not being in good relationship with their families and their communities and not being productive members of society.” Clearly "broken" people, poor family/community relationships, and not being productive are part of the problem. I doubt the relationship with creator part but I have to admit there is some evidence that a religious viewpoint is correlated with greater success. The backlash people are out of line. The mayor made no "undeserved and broad accusations"; she didn't make any accusations at all. I'm not religious myself but I support free speech. The "Freedom From Religion" people are trying to censor a perspective they don't like. Being open to all perspectives is better for society. Her comments should be a starting point for discussion. We need to defend free speech from people who think they have a right to not be offended and not hear viewpoints with which they disagree.
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Amber
Oy... Atheism has nothing to do with it. Lack of a combination of education and confidence is what causes poverty. Greed and selfishness of the wealthy is what causes poverty. Laws made by morally bankrupt millionaire and billionaire level politicians is what causes poverty.
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Joe Stutler
Truth. Gods have nothing to do with it.... except perhaps to further deplete scarce resources from the struggling worshipers into the coffers of the church/mosque/temple/etc.
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Dawn
Greed contributes to poverty. When we do not value equality or humans, when we focus on self and not us or try to capitalize on suffering we have poverty. Not all beings believe in a god or they may have a different perception about or relationship with god. Although religion is helpful for establishing faith, compassion and kindness , people are capable of cultivating these traits with out it if the develop or have the right mindset. Meditation can develop the mind. Charity can develop the mind. Giving and even reading positive info can develop a good mind.
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Rev Ned
My God does not hate the poor. My God love atheists because they don't go around killing people, then claiming He made 'em do it.
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The Prophet of Life
There are many causes of poverty. Atheism, in and of itself doesn't cause poverty. There are an awful lot of rich atheists in the world. Poverty is primarily caused by lack of opportunity, lack of education or bad choices. Some may argue that people who lack faith have a disadvantage when it comes to peace of mind during life's trials and tribulations but people with stoic values usually overcome life's trials and tribulations because they believe that they are inevitable and prepare to weather them, irregardless of whether or not they believe in God.
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Victor Reichstein
Poverty is caused by a lack of education. When one cannot think for themselves, due to lack of critical thinking skills, they tend to follow rather than lead. Understanding what God wants from us, or expects from us, must be obtained through personal understanding, not through what others tell us the word means.
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B. E. Scott
Her beliefs are based in pure ignorance. That's what they get for electing a religious nut to government office.
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Dennis Butler
There are far more hardcore Christians in POOR neighborhoods than there are in more affluent neighborhoods. I live near Detroit, and the place has a church on every corner and they get PACKED with all kinds of god-fearin' folk every week. They are deeply religious. And poor. So was jesus.
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Name (required)PH
Poverty in the US is caused by the extreme wealth imbalance. Working people create wealth, the top 2% take almost all of it and leave a tiny percentage of it for the working classes who created it. It's because of not just greed, but more than that--wealth addiction. A wealth junkie needs more and more to get their fix, they never feel they have enough. We live in a country in which the number one career choice for psychopaths is CEO (google "top ten careers for psychopaths" to see.) This is because the way business runs in the US, psychopaths excel at it. Psychopathic capitalism is a perversion of what capitalism is supposed to be: a great system that rewards hard work, innovation and honest competition.
Lack of belief in God didn't cause this. I've known Atheists who donated a lot of their time and money to help the needy. What caused this is a lack of empathy, a lack of personal integrity and a sense of entitlement that staggers the imagination. Belief in God doesn't cure these problems. The cure is to develop a sense of justice, because it's unjust that the people who make the products and provide the services should only receive the barest fraction of the worth of what they provide.
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Rev John
Some of the richest countries in the world have the majority of the world's atheist. Scandinavia, Britain, France, New Zealand, Germany, Australia etc. The woman is a buffoon and needs to do more research before she speaks. As I have stated before, Jesus would not be in America because as far as he knew - it did not exist - the earth was flat and Spain and the Sahara was as farthest west you could go. His father obviously hadn't taught him much geography!
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Bill Fox
From my own experience, the fundamentals of the statement are completely true. In any or all of the aspects of life, where God is not present, there is no or less prosperity than where God is full involved.
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Anna Harding
If you dig seriously into the origins of the Abrahamic religions you find that what is in the Christian Bible is heavily edited, redacted, and altered to fit particular biases. The roots of this set of religions go back many thousands of years but what we have today bears very little resemblance to what it was back when. Thus, Biblical accounts are inaccurate at best and possibly even wildly fictional.
But let's assume, for the sake of argument that the Gospels are reasonably accurate. In these accounts who did Jesus hang out with? It wasn't with the elite of his society, nor the wealthy, nor the pure of heart, nor the powerful and influential. It was with the poor, the derelict, those beset by problems mental, physical, and spiritual. And his thesis is that you should try to better their lot, regardless of whether they agree with you regarding religion or not. And it is true, a hungry man cannot think clearly. But if you can get some food into him, ease his pain, get him to think clearly, perhaps you can reason with him.
Does this mean, to borrow the phrase, "My way or the highway."? In my opinion, not. We are all individuals. That you have brought someone to the point where they can see what you are offering does not mean they have to accept it. They might be fine without it - that is for them to decide.
If you want to sell someone your message, don't shove it down his throat. Lead by example. If he sees value in what you are doing, he might well sign on. If he doesn't, remember we all approach these fundamental issues each in our own way. What is valid for me is not necessarily valid for you, and vice versa. Religion is not a one-size-fits-all deal.
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James.ULC
What is Love? What is Hate?
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Joseph E Knopick
Prosperity Doctrine in full swing...Heresy at the forefront.
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Frank Villari
When San Antonio Mayor, Ivy Taylor, was asked what she saw as the deepest, systemic causes of generational poverty in her city, she answered, "To me, it’s broken people. People not being in relationships with their creator and therefore not being in good relationship with their families and their communities and not being productive members of society.” Mayor Taylor is a born again Christian and, in my humble opinion, grammar check notwithstanding, she is also wrong. After all, wasn't 2017 presidential candidate Ben Carson raised in a poor family, mother working as a domestic, and an estranged father? He was brought up Christian and became a missionary doctor for a time before becoming one of the world's most noted brain surgeons. Was being poor the cause of him being broken, or his mother, who worked several jobs to support the family alone? I think not.
To read more of this My Sunday Thought on the idea of poverty being caused by a lack of faith, please follow this link to my blog, “The Path”: http://congregationforreligioustolerance.blogspot.com/2017/05/my-sunday-thought-for-052817-poverty.html
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Joanne Martin
As anyone who has read any blog I have commented on you know that I was raised Catholic but left for personal reason. I did not however, ever stop believing that there was something much greater than myself that understood why my life's journey was the way it was.
I had 12 fabulous years that every child would dream of. I was the youngest of 4 yet I was a "late in life" baby so the sibling closest to my age was 6 years older and my oldest sibling, my only sister was 12 years older than me. It was safe to say I was spoiled and my sister was and remains my biggest hero. Our age difference made us closer, rather than more distant. She brought me everywhere and did everything with me. I became an aunt at 10 when my sister gave birth to her first child, my niece, and still my place in her heart never faltered. At 1 I was going to be an aunt again A nephew this time. Only this time my sister would not come home with her child. She would never come home again. Six days following my nephews birth she succumbed to what can only be described as mistakes during a c section and left my life forever....so I believed.
This was just the beginning of a life full of traumatic events and horrific experiences that most people will never see in an entire lifetime, never mind in the quick momentum they were happening in mine. Even through all of this I never stopped searching for an understanding of this divine being that would allow such things to happen all to me while I watched others enjoy a childhood I left behind at 12 years old.
Everything wasn't bad for sure but the things that were far outweighed in magnitude the many good things I had in my life. On my search I knew that one day I would come across just one thing and I would just know in my heart without a doubt I had found what I was looking for.
I identify as spiritual and not with any religion, however the first answers to my lifelong questions came within the teachings of Buddha. I feel this necessary to explain because the Mayor has stated that her comment and beliefs have come in her wake of being born again into Christianity. My awakening did not draw me back to Christianity, yet it did allow me to let go of my anger towards it and be able to understand the true teachings of Jesus and not what I was taught to believe about him.
I do not agree that poverty in any way can be directly correlated with a persons belief in a higher power. But in my own search for the truth I also found that my jealousy of people who seemed so happy and could have such a strong faith in anything was no unwarranted.
I can only explain it as spending my life looking through lenses that were always smudged. Not enough to be unable to see infront of me but everything was just muted. I did not realize this until I started to find my spiritual self. The more I learned about myself and the more questions I asked that finally gave me that understanding of a solid grounded foundation that can never be shifted once you KNOW exactly what it is you are meant to know. I state it like this because there are all kinds of religions and belief systems and there is not one that fits everyone, nor does everyone fit with each belief but if you know it is what you are meant to believe and follow than nothing can break you. It was only then that I woke up one day and realized these invisible lenses had been wiped clean for the first time in my life and I saw things I never noticed before. Colors were brighter on even the darkest days, there were more people smiling and happy then I had ever noticed and more importantly I found a meaning and understanding in the life I had/have to live through which makes my past hold new meaning.
So I do not believe that a connection with you God will make you rich or even help you become debt free. I am living proof that is not true. I raise my kids paycheck to paycheck and have the same worries as most Americans these days regarding the future for my family and through it all I may question my ability to be a good mother, or whether my sister is proud of the person I have become and even whether I am strong enough to see my way through PTSD and find my strength once again BUT I never question, doubt or reconsider my spiritual self or the fact that even through the doubt, there is a reason for all of it and that is why I will never break.
I bring my children to a Universalist Church so they can learn as much as they can and find a spiritual path set for them. I have a greater tolerance of all people and even though I was diagnosed co-dependent long before I found my spiritual self, I am even more empathic and compassionate to those in need. So to say that it has a direct effect on poverty may be pushing the case regarding the importance of spirituality in everyone's life but I do believe that a truly spiritual society that practices coexistence rather than judgement would have a higher success rate of people offering help to those in need and people accepting the help humbly and without abuse.
Her comment was worth the apology but the premise of a healthier more effective culture by bringing spirituality back into peoples lives is not a misguided idea.
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John Owens
Beautiful.
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Tom B
Poverty is caused by karma...it has nothing to do with what Trump or anyone else does
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Joanne Martin
Karma is not to be looked at as a punishment. So this would not be an accurate description of the powers of Karma. It is neither good or bad it just is. These days many factors have contributed to the increase in poverty and we can sit and lay blame whatever and whomever we want...why dont we work on a solution instead.
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Tom B
Joanne...karma is in no way punishment...it is teaching the balance necessary to realize we are in God...poverty is part of karma; it is not punishment...this is not to say we should not show compassion and love and help those in poverty...there are only intellectual and illusory "punishments"; not real...Tom
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Joanne Martin
In a sense I guess I can see what you are saying. It is, on the most basic of definitions a cycle of cause and effect. It says that for every action is met with an equal reaction as a way of a balance in energy. If you toss a ball against a wall gently it will bounce of and gently return to you. If you throw a ball with all your might at a wall it will return at the same pace and with the same amount of energy and rage you put into it before the release. Not as easy to catch and could possibly be fairly dangerous.
I guess as long as using Karma as a way of describing poverty is meant as a way of understanding that if the economy suffers, the equal reaction to that is the ,loss of jobs etc. Its an awkward metaphor for me I guess but I do understand what you are trying to explain; I just know that too often people use Karma as a way of wishing bad on another person (which in itself is a negative energy being released and will soon carry its own Karma be hind it) so I just wanted to make sure no one was confused into believing that poverty is a punishment for some based on something bad they have done to deserve it because its not always the case....
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Tom B
Joanne...people can say that karma is punishment, but it is not...it is the way the universe makes us aware of things in our illusory world, so we can achieve the balance that enables us not to be here...although it is not necessary, the only way to understand karma on this level is to go through past-life regression...but that too, is still illusory, as there really is no cause and effect, as everything that has ever happened, is happening or will happen is just an illusion, as infinity is the peace and the only existence...tom
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Joanne Martin
Karma is- that result that occurs due to a person's actions with the results being equal to the original action. Karma may have some ramifications in any future lives based on whether the action was properly compensated in this life. It will not always be a teaching lesson since thee reaction may not be in direct response to the original action.
Kind of like when my kids are getting lippy and wise mouth and turn to leave and bang their foot on the bed frame and it hurts. We always refer to this as instant Karma. Therefore a person unaccepting of the concept of Karma would not see this as a result of the act. Its not as cut and dry as, I stole a dollar from you and now I have a dollar missing. Its not always that cut and dry.
Karma is really not anything anyone should concern themselves with because once the Karmic energies are cast out there is no way to stop them, change them or avoid them. The ball bouncing off the wall will come back at you whether you decide halfway through that you have changed your mind.
When saying that the reference to Karma as a punishment carries its own Karma (which we should be reminded works the same in positive circumstances also.) means that threatening a person with the idea that you will not worry because Karma will take care of them is just further releasing negative energies into your world and with itself have its own effect.
Because Karma is unescapable once it is set in motion, people should spend more time focusing on their own Dharma, which is the moral laws that all people are responsible for Simple stated carrying out.it says we are responsible to live moral lives, gain spiritual awareness, be helpful to others and interact responsibly in society. For this we can control. It is how we conduct ourselves based on these principles of moral law that create Karma.
Therefore, focusing on our own dharma is the only way to have kind of impact on our own "karma". Once the behavior is done and the experience is over, no amount of meditating or thoughts of forgiveness can stop the inevitable Karma. We just need to live with the knowledge that if we have been done wrong or suffered due the actions of another person, that they will meet with their own Karma. We do not need to wish it upon them or remind anyone or anything, it just is. So I guess what I am saying is that the real topic should always start with Dharma and our responsibility to living a good life and that the way others live their lives needs to stop being of such importance to us. If they are living a life less than enlightened or at least with that in mind and if others choose to live differently than us, the universe will answer, it is not out place to force change on them or use Karma as a way of causing fear. It is an uncontrollable response to an action.....simple....
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Maraya Perez-Sonntag
Osiyo Brothers and Sisters,
Poverty is caused by people who lack the Compassion, Humanity and Understanding toward their Fellow Human Being. Let us be honest: The Creator did not create religion or politics, HUMANS DID! To be more honest, both were created by Sadistic Males because of this need to be in control. I am not saying that all Males are sadistic, because that would be a lie. But those Males who derive pleasure from seeing others suffer are so.
Therefore, let us reason: If we can create suffering, we can end it. Faith has absolutely NOTHING to do with the condition of Humans. If religion did not exist, poverty would still exist because of those who lack Empathy. As a Tsalagi (Cherokee), I have received more Compassion, Friendship, Honesty, Respect, and Understanding from Atheists and Agnostics than ever from a Christian. I can say this because, I once was a Christian.
I do believe in Christ. I also believe in Socrates, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Confucius, Chief Joseph and other great Philosopher Prophets
But, I will never believe anything that comes out of the mouth of anyone who claims to be a Christian. Let you actions and deeds speak for you. Then, I will believe.
Wado, Maraya "Winter Song" Sonntag
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Paul D Gilbert
Sadistic males created religion and politics? How did you reach that conclusion? And you will never believe anything a Christian says? Isn't that a bit extreme?
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Tom B
Maraya...Native American beliefs, which are essentially pantheistic, are much closed to reality than religions...and yes, people cause poverty, but there is a strong element of karma...Tom
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Maraya Perez-Sonntag
My comments are history based. As for not believing anything a Christian say is also based in history, as well as my experiences in a Christian church. I left Christianity because of Ethics, Honesty and Truth. I could not, in all honesty, hate my sister because she is gay, wish death on my cousin because he had AIDS, or condemn a woman who desired a abortion because she was a victim of rape. And that is just a few instances.
Show me where men have not created dogmas and laws using religion and politics to obstruct, oppress, suppress and terrorize majority of society? Give me examples where Christianity was not used to justify the annihilation of whole Nations/Tribes in the North and South Continents called The Americas? ((There are actually Nations/Tribes made extinct due to diseases brought here from Europeans). Explain to me the rational for enslaving the Indigenous/Aboriginal Peoples of Africa and Australia? .
More importantly, who were (and still are) the heads of these religious and political orders? (It is true that there are women now in positions of power. But, that is only recent history. And, this does NOT include the Monarchy)
Before Euros came here, we had Freedom. We had order. We understood that we are connected to each other. We respected that. We cherish Life. We understood that we are Humans. And in order to be Human, one must be Humane.
Humanity is a lost art.
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Paul D Gilbert
Are you trying to bait people or start arguments with your extreme statements? It is bigotry (intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself) to say you can't believe anything a Christian says. I am sorry you had bad experiences with Christians but I know plenty of Christians who are honest people. And your assertion that religion and politics were created by "Sadistic Males" because of a need to be in control reflects a biased and simplistic view of history. There are plenty of sites online about the origins of religion and politics, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_origin_of_religions and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics. As to your questions, I don't see how I can take them seriously. I know plenty of men who aren't "using religion and politics to obstruct, oppress, suppress and terrorize majority of society". And there are plenty of examples of Christianity being used to justify service to humanity rather than "annihilation". I agree that history is replete with terrible injustice and it continues today. Hopefully the future will be better. And hopefully this blog promotes the understanding needed for a better future.
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Stephen Wehrenberg
Thanks Paul. A much needed comment. There are plenty of places on the Internet for those kinds of ugly generalizations. Hopefully we can keep them to a minimum here.
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Paul D Gilbert
Thank you, Steve. I agree.
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Tom B
Joanne...in the kindest way possible, i suggest thinking about karma as balance, not as reaction, punishment or anything in any way negative...and virtually everyone avoids thinking about the fact that almost all karma is interactive, and not inherently for one person...i feel the reason people think about their own karma almost exclusively is due to ego, and the sooner we neutralize our ego, the sooner we can go from this world of illusion to peace in God...Tom
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Joanne Martin
Tom I have never considered you response or comments to be anything but respectful and kind. I do believe we may be saying the same thing but our difference in :turn of phrase" makes it harder to see that. You are correct Karma is merely the universes way of keeping things in balance.In saying ti is a direct reaction to ones own action was providing too much of the text book definition if you will. I was express the exact thing, and with the same concerns it sounds you have here; Karma is not to be thought of as some cosmic punishment and rewards system and when it is not understood in that way it seems to cause more havoc than anything. The only part I disagree with is that more people are concerned with their own Karma. I find it much more alarming how often a person is under the impression that they are leaving to the forces unknown and being the "bigger" person as they declare with such hate that Karma will take care of you. This is where I said that you then create another Karmic balance, if you will, to even out the negative intent behind the words that are being used in a way that you would hope meant that the person had an understanding of it. Unfortunately not many do.
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Poverty is caused by the lack of money in a monitory system controlled by the greedy S O B 's in corporate businesses, and supported by A Hole polition's who chose to support a failed and discrimitory system, i've worked all my life ,where the HELL is mine ,you ...!^*#^
YOU SAID it WILLY, RIGHT ON, 100%, POVERTY is CAUSED by GREED, TRUMP and REPUBLICAN GREED !!!
Yeah, John. Democrat greed never hurt anyone. When they lie and steal it's to help themselves, not some corporation. Putz.
All politicians. I wouldn't focus on just democrats in this. Republicans have their fair share of guilt. They are the ones who think it best to save money by dropping programs that actually teach people how to decent living make a living and get off assistance.
Like I said, when Democrats lie and steal it is okay. It is horrible of Republicans to think we should each spend our own money.
Poverty is caused by far too many factors to list here. But a true faith in a divine being can at least help eliminate such anger and may allow more people to coexist and work together for a better future rather than fuel the tumultuous state of affairs we find ourselves in right now by dividing our country even more than it already is.
I am as worried about the future for my children and family as anyone and for the first time here I will tell you too John that I rallied against Trump getting into the white house probably more than I have ever even supported any candidate in my adult life. I am still unsure how some of the most intelligent people I know in my life actually supported Trump all the way through. I respected and still respect these people which is why I can still not believe that we watched the same news or read the same articles and could have such opposing views. It was by far the most black and white election I have ever experienced. There was no debating or even trying to have civilized conversations about it and I am no less confused or scared now.
But we are no better than our own actions and reactions. Riots are still erupting all over the place over this election and the election is done. It is more important than ever to stand as a united people and not lower ourselves to the being the kind of people that you are claiming to be the cause of all our problems right now.
This is a spiritual site with articles relating to all things spiritual based. I only gave into the political banter here since we are discussing an article involving an elected public figure (even if only for New Jersey) so I gave in. But like I have told my children, and what I refer to as the Rosa Parks Effect.....we can not change or control what is happening in the White House, Washington DC or even in the house next door. What we can control is how we chose to live our lives. We can choose the kind of people we allow to become a part of our inner circle and we can control how we treat others. We can not expect everyone to do what we are doing because we tell them to. We can not get angry at things we have no control over, but if we start with ourselves and our own little place in this world we can hope that others will see us as examples of how they want to live and will follow suit. That is truly the only way to try to bring any kind of peace to an angry world. Rosa Parks did not set out that day to be a monumental figure that is credited in a huge way to the civil rights movement. She was just tired and refused to give up her seat. She was just doing what she believed was right for her, and in turn others wanted to find the same strength within themselves. That is how true change happens.
hogwash
William very well said and so true
I agree with the mayor and with you....the greed of many deprives the need of the masses...the power of the darkness can be all consuming...there will be those who choose to feed the darkness because that is the balance of this reality...the curse of free will...but those of us who seek out the Holy Spirit can only offer to share what we have...open doors for those who want to rid themselves of the darkness ....to teach them hope thru the positive strength of Christ and the actions of the Holy Spirit once they open their hearts, minds and souls to the light of our Creator....it must be their choice to make the action of stepping out of the darkness...we can only be there for them to add to their strength.....they must speak out loud to the Creator as if you were talking to a friend and speak with certainity and confidence and faith that the Light will be given to you...but you must seek out the doors that will open to you using your free will and faith to take those first steps....money is like an addiction....you must have it; you chase it but there will never be enough....others have made it a god worthy of their total devotion and it will consume and destroy them in the end....see it for what it is...a means to an end...you give to others freely of your time , love and labors and the Universe will return this energy ten fold...you only use what you need and give any excess to those who are hopeless and have yet to see the Light. And the circle of Universal Engery begins again to provide for you needs....it is the way of this reality...put out positive energy and your Guardian Angels will find you even in the Darkness. Try it...I dare you......practice it I beg you and let the Light become stronger around you and all those you have touched....Be Blessed.