A Florida teenager died after being exposed to coronavirus at a church-sponsored ‘COVID party’ that her mother encouraged her to attend. This completely preventable tragedy is shining the spotlight yet again on the role of churches during the COVID pandemic, and on defiant priests and preachers who insist on keeping their doors open – sometimes with fatal results.
A Preventable Tragedy
The victim this time is Carsyn Davis, a 17-year-old girl who, according to her mother, was a generous and kind person, an honors student who volunteered in her high school’s special needs classroom, and for the Special Olympics. She was also a cancer survivor, and as such was at high risk for COVID. By all accounts she had a bright, happy, and successful future ahead of her.
On June 10th, Carsyn’s mother took her daughter to a "COVID party" at their local church. The event, which defied all official safety guidelines issued during the pandemic, focused on bringing people together in a bizarre attempt to spite a virus that makes no distinction between color, creed, or belief system. The church in question allegedly spoke of COVID-19 as a hoax and argued that any casualties from the virus would simply be a result of "God's will."
According to Rawstory, more than 100 children were present – mask-free – at the church event.
So why would a high-risk former cancer patient be exposed to such an environment? Apparently, it wasn't her idea. Carsyn’s mother’s Facebook page is “awash in QAnon conspiracy theories, anti-vaccine and coronavirus misinformation and dubious legal theories.” Attending the party was apparently her mother's idea.
After her daughter contracted COVID, the mother reportedly tried treating her with home remedies, including hydroxychloroquine, which has been falsely touted by President Trump as a cure for coronavirus. Only after Carsyn’s condition turned extremely dire did her mother take her to a hospital, where she passed a few days later.
The Role of the Church
The tragedy begs a lot of questions. Primarily, why was a church hosting an event knowing that people could be exposed to the virus? Well, that might be more common than you think.
Hundreds of religious leaders in America are openly defying CDC guidelines, and putting parishioners and their communities at risk. Among them is Pastor Greg Locke, a Tennessee faith leader who is adamant that COVID is no big deal:
Early during the pandemic, prominent Christian leaders nationwide downplayed the coronavirus, leading many churchgoers to believe they’re immune, that the coronavirus threat is wildly overblown, or to disbelieve in it entirely. But the science has shown that church events are superspreader hotspots, in some cases infecting dozens at once.
And that’s when they aren’t hosting COVID parties.
Pope Francis himself had strong words for church leaders who continue to hold in-person services during the pandemic instead of going completely virtual, calling them “adolescents”. But many other religious leaders are staying quiet or doubling down on dangerous in-person events, needlessly prolonging the pandemic and dangerously putting visitors at risk.
Unfortunately, those events have very serious consequences, as the story of Carsyn Davis shows.
What do you think? If church leaders are supposed to be shepherds, why are so many bucking the rules and needlessly putting their flocks at risk?
188 comments
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Daniel Gray
And who forced this child to go T Kosse? It was the mother. And its as I have said from the beginning, its the mothers fault for the death of this child as if she had not forced her to go she would not have got the virus and passed now would she?
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T Kosse`
This will be my last reply to you Daniel Gray that is Bye Bye have a nice life.
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Daniel Gray
spon·sor
/ˈspänsər/
verb 1. provide funds for (a project or activity or the person carrying it out).
"Party is being sponsored by his church"
Similar:....finance.......put up the money for......fund.......subsidize.........underwrite
Nope its called RENTING the church gym. I own an old Amish church about 15 miles from me and the 2 acres it sits on. I RENT it out for parties and graduations and such but when I RENT it out I have NO responsibility if anyone gets sick or hurt on the premises as that is written into the same agreement that actual churches use. And again nobody forced the mother to take her child. she did that on her own. As such under US law the person that bears the responsibility for the death is the mother. ask any attorney or judge and they will tell you the same thing.
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T Kosse`
Not only is she a mother but a nurse as well, so she should have known better then most mothers as to what to do in a case like that.
"I think this woman wanted to do what she thought her God wanted her to do"
"Davis, who is considered immuno compromised due to her past illnesses and her preexisting condition, obesity",
"waiting nearly a week before taking her to a hospital. Her mother, a nurse,"
doctors recommended that she be intubated, which her parents declined. They instead had her receive plasma therapy treatments, but after three days, her condition had not improved, and doctors insisted on intubating Davis.
Would you listen to a preacher and or GOD and knowing take your son or daughter that is immuno compromised due to past illnesses to a party, held by a church that allegedly spoke of COVID-19 which is a highly contagious airborne virus as a hoax and argued that any casualties from the virus would simply be a result of "God's will. And the church acted irresponsibly by ignoring state warnings and calling it a "hoax", Then after he or she became ill from contracting the COVID-19. Would you then wait nearly a week before taking him or her to a hospital and also give your son or daughter azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine, despite warnings from the Food and Drug Administration that it caused virus patients to die more rapidly. Then after taking him or her to a hospital and when the doctors recommended that he or she be intubated, would you not listen to them and declined their recommendation but instead insist that he or she receive plasma therapy treatments, and after three days his or her condition still had not improved, would you still declined after the doctors insisted on intubating.
I'm sorry but just saying "She (Her mother, a nurse,) made a mistake.... a big mistake.... but a mistake" just doesn't cut it and another thing. If I had a son or daughter, there would be no GOD in heaven or on earth that I would ever listen to when it come to their health and well being.
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Daniel Gray
yes I did, sorry.
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Daniel Gray
yes I did with anoyone with brains can see.
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T Kosse`
By the way you really shouldn't sit on your brain so much because it cut off the flow of oxygen, lack of oxygen will cause brain damage.
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Daniel Gray
why are you talking about yourself yet again?
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Daniel Gray
sorry but I did and spamming the thread isnt going to make you any less incorrect.
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T Kosse`
That the pot calling the kettle black and he who is without sin cast the first stone. As if your hands are clean and you're not guilty of spamming the thread yourself.
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Daniel Gray
believe what you want, but dont try and pull the wool over peoples eyes here as you will be called on it
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Daniel Gray
there is no difference, they hosted them but they did not force anyone to attend like the parents did. And if the parents knew this was a covid party and still forced their kids to attend then the blame is ALL on the parents. get that through your head. The Church didnt force anyone to attend. I own property about 15 miles from my home and its a large gathering place. When I rent it out I dont demand to know what they are going to do with it if they tell me its a party or a graduation celebration or something like that, I take them at their word. I do not have to be at the place to police it and under the law I cannot be held responsible if someone gets hurt or contracts a disease. Thats all on the people who are attending and the parents of same as again under the law I did not force them to attend. You have some very strange ideas on responsibility
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T Kosse`
It was a church-sponsored event it doesn't matter where it was held whether it was held on their own church properties or even if it was held at your property they are the one would be held negligence by knowing creating an unsafe environment . As far as your responsibility goes is making sure your property and any building that on your property is well-maintained and to take "reasonable" steps to prevent or correct dangerous situations, You would only be held negligence is if someone was injured because you did not keep your property and any building that on it well-maintained and /or failed to take "reasonable" steps to prevent or correct dangerous situations (because it wasn't well-maintained) in and around your property and any building that on your property.
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Daniel Gray
Nope wrong yet again. All the church did was rent out the gym where this took place, they never sponsored it and you would know that if you had bothered to check the facts first before engaging mouth.
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T Kosse`
spon·sor
/ˈspänsər/
verb 1. provide funds for (a project or activity or the person carrying it out).
"Party is being sponsored by his church"
Similar:....finance.......put up the money for......fund.......subsidize.........underwrite
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T Kosse`
The Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner found that the immunocompromised teen went to a large church party with roughly 100 other children where she did not wear a mask and social distancing was not enforced.
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T Kosse`
Sponsor or sponsorship may refer to a person or organization with some role (especially one of responsibility) regarding another person or organisation:
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T Kosse`
In a June 10 post, First Youth Church wrote:
“Service is back and better than ever! We will be having our Release Party in the gym TONIGHT at 6:45. There will be games, awesome giveaways, free food, a DJ and music, and the start of our new sermon series. AND we’ll be starting Summer Nights afterwords [sic] with karaoke and basketball! We hope to see you there!”
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T Kosse`
As of Tuesday, Lee County has 7,859 confirmed cases of COVID-19, and the positivity rate is 24.6%, among the highest in the state, according to data from the state's Department of Health. Florida has 213,794 total cases and a positivity rate of 16.1%.
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Rebecca L Tice
I received a reminder that not everyone here is a practicing Christian.... I know..... But thank you for the reminder.
I am of the opinion that a mother's compassion for a child she has raised for all those years could not be a belated abortion.... as someone has stated. I think this woman wanted to do what she thought her God wanted her to do.... that she was led to do so by a preacher who was trying to make a name for himself [or herself]. How magnificent would it be for a preacher to add to his resume.... "he stood up for God in a pandemic and they all survived because he was such a devout guy".... making a name for himself..... IMHO... it was the preacher... not the mother....
I am of the opinion that many prophets have called for us to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.... that's universal right???? Walk a mile in my shoes and then you can tell me how I should react.
I'm just trying to tell everyone what it must have been like in that mother's shoes..... don't stone her for following the preacher's desires..... Our church teaches us to do that.....
She made a mistake.... a big mistake.... but a mistake.... that's what I am trying to say.... and I believe mistakes are made in all religions....
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T Kosse`
Not only is a mother but a nurse as well, so she should have known better then most mothers as to what to do in a case like that.
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Teresa Renee Maxson
If a restaurant refuses to follow public safety regulations for food preparation, storage and cleanliness and their customers get sick, the restaurant is held liable for the illnesses because of their failure to follow the public health department and state regulations. The church in this case is the store, and its parishioners are the customers. They failed to follow public safety regulations, their customer got sick -- it's totally on them. This is really, really simple.
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Gale Mallette
Absolutely right. My condolences.
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Rob
The final tag to the article asks "If church leaders are supposed to be shepherds, why are so many bucking the rules and needlessly putting their flocks at risk?"
One word: ego.
It's not about being Christ-like, it's about desperately seizing upon an opportunity to self-aggrandize as a "Christian Soldier", while what they are doing bears zero resemblance to the real thing.
Such egoism, to declare that you know "God's Will".
And the innocent and naive all too often pay the price.
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Richard Lee Cornell
Since she had the underlining problems she risk dying from it. As those who have had major health problems. Most people of her age this virus is just another cold. It helps if those under 60 get this virus and snap out of it just as quickly. If your over 60 getting this virus. you snap out of it or die. TWiV # 634
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Virginia Wieland Kerr
Simply reading a few of the posts commenting upon this article is a sampling of some of the most pitiful conditions in America today among individuals who profess to be believers.
Where is the love among us? Where is the understanding concerning the widespread confusion in our nation reeling from the onslaught of this pandemic?
Did Jesus taunt fate and entertain crowds or followers with such reckless acts of so-called faith? Are there stories in the Bible depicting anything remotely akin to a temple crowded with people exposed to a plague?
Before you weigh in with venomous remarks aimed at me or anyone who doesn’t agree with yourself, I ask, no I beg, everyone to pray for this child who has died in the midst of a debate having nothing whatsoever to do with salvation or Christ and for all the souls departed from this world due to nCOVID19, their families and loved ones, for the sick and suffering, for all of the people living in fear and anxiety.
Thank you.
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T Kosse`
We should Thank you Virginia Wieland Kerr. I couldn't have said it better myself
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Virginia Wieland Kerr
Thank you for continuing a dialogue with the intention of spreading love. We are experiencing a crisis of consciousness unlike anything before given how connected people are nowadays. Here’s some wisdom from a beautiful spirit who crossed over some time ago. She apparently was one of the founders of Findhorn in Scotland, and the community keeps her spirit alive by sharing her poignant advice received via a channel of her own with creation in weekly emails from Findhorn Foundation, The Park, Findhorn, Forres, IV36 3TZ, United Kingdom. In the spirit of your continued mission:
Guidance received by Eileen Caddy Unite In The Things You Can Unite In
Your work is to do the linking together. You must never be dogmatic but absolutely open and free, willing to listen to all glean the truth from each one. Remember there are many spokes which lead to the hub and every spoke is necessary to make that wheel strong and well-balanced, so never try to take one away. Simply accept that each is necessary and do not interfere with it but incorporate it into the whole, realising that at the hub there will be no separation what so ever. So keep your eye on the hub and unite in the things you can unite in and ignore the things, which cause division.
Simply know that the time is near at hand when all those on their various spiritual paths will join together at the Source and find absolute peace, unity and harmony, for All are One in My sight. All are part of My perfect whole. 24 July 2020
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Daniel Gray
Both of them are places where you can catch this virus.
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T Kosse`
Both of them are places where you can catch this virus.
Is that really your answer, is that the best you can do Really! That is the most pathetic, unimaginative, unintelligent and dim-witted answer that I have ever heard so far. Sorry but it's not good enough.
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Daniel Gray
in answer to your constant and wrong demands that we hold the church responsible, then yes. The Church did not force the child to attend, that is all on the parents.
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T Kosse`
I'll take that as you grudgingly admitted you're wrong. And by the way I never said that the parents wasn't negligent as well . They are just as much negligent as the church is.
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Daniel Gray
no they were complete at fault as they didnt have to force the child to go. Something that you intentionally refuse to admit.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And are you suggesting there might be a place where you can't get this virus, Daniel? Don't you dare say another planet!
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Daniel Gray
Sure there is, the same place that the first one came from they have found one that is even stronger then this virus. You really should read the news and keep up with reality
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T Kosse`
Either you didn't read or chose to ignore it, but what Carl Bernard Elfstrom wrote was ("where you can't get this virus,") and not where you can get this virus
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Daniel Gray
I did read it, and the fact remains that the parents are the ones who are to blame and nothing you can say or do is going to change that
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T Kosse`
Not only is she a mother but a nurse as well, so she should have known better then most mothers as to what to do in a case like that.
"I think this woman wanted to do what she thought her God wanted her to do"
"Davis, who is considered immuno compromised due to her past illnesses and her preexisting condition, obesity",
"waiting nearly a week before taking her to a hospital. Her mother, a nurse,"
doctors recommended that she be intubated, which her parents declined. They instead had her receive plasma therapy treatments, but after three days, her condition had not improved, and doctors insisted on intubating Davis.
Would you listen to a preacher and or GOD and knowingly take your son or daughter that is immuno compromised due to past illnesses to a party, held by a church that allegedly spoke of COVID-19 which is a highly contagious airborne virus as a hoax and argued that any casualties from the virus would simply be a result of "God's will. And the church acted irresponsibly by ignoring state warnings and calling it a "hoax", Then after he or she became ill from contracting the COVID-19. Would you then wait nearly a week before taking him or her to a hospital and also give your son or daughter azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine, despite warnings from the Food and Drug Administration that it caused virus patients to die more rapidly. Then after taking him or her to a hospital and when the doctors recommended that he or she be intubated, would you not listen to them and declined their recommendation but instead insist that he or she receive plasma therapy treatments, and after three days his or her condition still had not improved, would you still declined after the doctors insisted on intubating.
I'm sorry but just saying "She (Her mother, a nurse,) made a mistake.... a big mistake.... but a mistake" just doesn't cut it and another thing. If I had a son or daughter, there would be no GOD in heaven or on earth that I would ever listen to when it come to their health and well being.
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T Kosse`
You really should read and comprehend what is written, instead of creating your own reality that only fit your world view.
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Michael James Linder
i have a few questions. why only one case of the virus out of the 100 attendees? sense this is touted to be a proximity virus why are there not more? is it not possible if in fact she died of the virus she could have gotten it elsewhere? does anyone else find it strange that only one case was reported from the party? thank you
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T Kosse`
Just because they didn't write about it, doesn't mean there weren't any other cases of the COVID-19 at that church. For all we know more people could have gotten it later, but we just didn't hear about it
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CB Cuff
My questions also. I suspect it a case of 'What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas'. Parishioners have likely been 'instructed' not to zip it.
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David Ciambrone
Another stupid idea gone wrong. What was the church thinking? Shows ministers do not have to be smart. Covid-19 parties are the breeding ground for the Darwin Awards. The church/paster was wrong. The kids stupid. Darwin wins again. You can't cure stupid.
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Minister Mike
Too many of the posts in TheMonastery.org's blog are ample evidence that ministers do not have to be smart.
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Roxanne Arlene Cato
I'm curious...what are these pastors/church leaders losing if they held virtual services? Tithes? Attention? Afraid members will stray or run to another church? Control? Loss of energy? What is the true motivation behind their need to disprove the existence and effects of this virus?
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Barrie Bradley
Sitting in a church makes you no more a Christian than sitting in a garage make you a car! These people are loons!
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Minister Mike
I've been thinking about this pandemic really being god's will, or maybe even its retribution on humanity for being such morons. So, during our daily talk this morning I asked god if it IS its will or retribution. What it told me bolstered my faith. It said, "Yes, it is retribution for being such morons, and that all you have to do to end it is wear face coverings and keep a social distance from others until the vaccine is developed, and then every one get vaccinated. Who do you think guided all those doctors and health professionals in giving that advice?"
Hmm?
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Laurence McGuire
Good reply. I agree whole heartedly.
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ed
This post about China virus party was proven fake on the news don't react unless you know. God is always in control even in the chaos of Satan.
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T Kosse`
Companies tied to Trump family members and associates were approved for up to $21 million in loans from the Paycheck Protection Program, which are meant to help small businesses survive the coronavirus pandemic, according to data released by the U.S. Treasury Department and Small Business Administration. Unlike the CARES Act, there is no provision in the PPP that excludes government officials and their family members from receiving bailout funds. The program was designed to allow small businesses — generally, those with fewer than 500 employees — to apply for loans of up to $10 million each. The loans can also be forgiven if they are used to cover payroll expenses, rent, mortgage interest, or utilities. Companies tied to Jared Kushner were approved for up to $6 million. A Dallas megachurch where Mike Pence recently spoke — whose pastor has been a vocal Trump supporter and sits on Trump’s evangelical advisory board — was approved for a forgivable loan worth $2-5 million. The school where Barron Trump is a student was approved for $2-5 million. The attorney who represented Trump in the Mueller investigation, as well as dozens of tenants of Trump’s real estate company, also received money. 22 companies at 40 Wall Street, an office building Trump owns in Lower Manhattan, received a combined total of at least $16.6 million in loans.
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Daniel Gray
Oh you mean like pelosi's Husband who received over 6 million? Or the Ohio and Florida Democrat party who also received a chunk of this? Or the Democrat controlled Florida Longshoremans Association? Or how about these Democrat lead or controlled businesses?
The law firm Boies Schiller Flexner, whose chairman David Boies has represented powerful clients such as former Vice President Al Gore in the Bush v. Gore Supreme Court case, received between $5 million and $10 million.
Perdue Inc., a trucking company co-founded by Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue, was approved for $150,000 to $350,000 in loan money. A spokesperson for the Agriculture Department said Perdue Inc., a trucking service, said the loan was for about $182,000 and supported 27 jobs. Perdue's adult children are 99% stakeholders in a trust that indirectly owns the company, and the secretary did not have any influence on the SBA's loan decisions or the company's decision to apply for aid, the spokesperson said.
Restaurant chains P.F. Chang's China Bistro and Chop't received aid of between $5 million and $10 million.
TGI Fridays, which is backed by private equity firm TriArtisan Capital Advisors, received at least $5 million. The private equity firm tried to take the restaurant chain public in a deal with a special purpose vehicle, but that was terminated in April amid market volatility due to the pandemic.
The Ayn Rand Institute, named for the objectivist writer cited as an influence on libertarian thought, was approved for $350,000 to $ 1 million.
Niche movie theater chain Alamo Drafthouse received a loan of at least $5 million. Theaters have been closed while new film releases have been delayed or pushed to streaming platforms.
The SBA released other details about the program Monday, including: It has approved 4.9 million loans for a total of more than $521 billion. Companies said that the funding supported more than 51 million jobs. But the businesses reported the total when they applied for loans, and it is unclear how many of those employees stayed on the payroll. The program has about $132 billion in funding remaining. The average loan is $107,000. Applicants in California received the most money overall with $68.2 billion, followed by Texas at $41.1 billion and New York at $38.3 billion.
Know the facts before you start
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T Kosse`
The White House has pressured the FDA to reverse itself and grant a second emergency authorization for the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19. The FDA revoked the emergency authorization for hydroxychloroquine last month after major studies found the medication wasn’t effective. Trump, however, praised a new study on Twitter this week, which scientists have widely criticized as flawed, urging the FDA to “Act Now.” White House trade adviser Peter Navarro has led the administration’s effort press the FDA to approve the antimalarial drug. There are 60 million doses of hydroxychloroquine in the Strategic National Stockpile that can’t be distributed unless the FDA issues an emergency authorization.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I've only received training as a natural health consultant, a drug and alcohol treatment specialist, and a nursing assistant through which the only healthcare advice I can give is to suggest a person consults a licensed healthcare practitioner of his/her choice. And if you can't find one on your own maybe I can help you find one.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
How hard is it to understand that only the people who graduated with a doctorate f r I'm medical school, or some other fully accredited health, natural health, or holistic health institute know what they are talking about regarding health, and are the only ones licensed to give health care advice, which means they are the only ones who should ever be paid any attention to in regard to the treatment of health conditions.
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T Kosse`
According to an autopsy report, the parents of 17-year-old Carsyn Leigh Davis waited nearly a week to take her to the hospital, and instead gave her hydroxychloroquine
But a newly-released report from the medical examiner, shows a different side of her death. According to the report, Davis contracted COVID-19 after attending a 100-person party at First Youth Church, where attendees were not required to social distance, and she did not wear a mask. And after Davis developed COVID-19 symptoms, her parents treated her at home, waiting nearly a week before taking her to a hospital. Her mother, a nurse, and a man identified as her father in the report, a physician assistant, gave Davis azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine, the malaria drug touted by President Donald Trump as a COVID-19 treatment despite warnings from the Food and Drug Administration that it caused virus patients to die more rapidly. Davis, who is considered immunocompromised due to her past illnesses and her preexisting condition, obesity, attended the party on June 10. Three days later, she developed a frontal headache, sinus pressure and a mild cough, which her family believed was a sinus infection, the report states. On June 19, her mother thought she looked “gray” while sleeping, and tested her oxygen level, which was alarmingly low, in the 40s. A healthy oxygen level is around 95. The mother then used Davis’ grandfather’s home oxygen tank, which got her oxygen level into the 60s, and hydroxychloroquine before taking her to the hospital. At the hospital, Davis tested positive for COVID-19 and doctors recommended that she be intubated, which her parents declined. They instead had her receive plasma therapy treatments, but after three days, her condition had not improved, and doctors insisted on intubating Davis. On June 22, Davis' condition continued to decline and her parents asked that she be put on life support. She died one day later.
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Rev Hannah Grace
I don't know if it is Darwinian selection or not but those so-called Christians and other religious fanatics of any denomination are basically killing themselves off. If a person is too stupid to take precautions during a pandemic, then they will suffer the consequences of their actions. The real tragedy here however is that the poor young girl felt compelled to attend the event and she ended up being the one who died. I consider this to be child abuse and a failure on the part of the parents to protect their child from harm.Maybe their stupidity was the cause or maybe their fanaticism is a result of a 'cult mentality' in politics, I don't know, but the more these religious communities come together to defy all scientific evidence by exposing themselves to a potentially fatal disease, the more these communities are simply going to die out. So maybe the solution to the problem will be found in the problem itself.
But oh how sad for the children involved.
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Rosamond Foster
I hold both the church and parents responsible in my own opinion. However I do not hold Christians in general responsible, and the number of Christian churches and groups who all believe and worship differently than one another are like the sands of the sea, nearly uncountable. There are fanatics of all kinds including in Christianity, and fanaticism is nearly always marked by a pronounced LACK of the love of Jesus. However, for those who are true Believers, the Bible clearly states that Jesus is returning for his people to take them home, And there is no Darwinian selection that will be influencing this event - simply Jesus gathering His people. Therein will be your "answer" - the True Believers in this world will simply disappear and will no longer trouble the minds of Darwinians. I cannot judge the souls of fanatics, but I pray that all people come to know the love of Jesus. I pray as well for the family of this girl. Their trials are just beginning, and I would not wish them on anyone.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I remember measles and mumps parties when I was a kid, born in 1957. Those were severe, but rarely deadly.
HOWEVER...
SARS2/COVID 19 IS DEADLY
I have had polio (got it from the vaccine), measles, mumps, chicken pox, German measles, scarlet fever, whooping cough, tonsillitis (had them out), bronchitis many times, strep several times, viral pneumonia (twice), pancreatic cancer...
I am a great believer in vaccines and suffering the inconvenience of modifying my social behavior to try and slow the spread of disease.
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T Kosse`
I am not in any shape or form condoning what First Assembly of God, Fort Myers, FL, did. I feel just as sick disgusted by it as anyone else. However I would caution people be careful as to where you direct your anger and blame towards
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Clay Serenbetz
This is just another example of self-righteous Christian's thinking that their God will protect them. If dying is protection, then all Christian's should die and then they'll forever have Jesus and God to protect them. Why bother living in the here and now? Go to your heavenly reward. Below is yet another example of Christian's believing that they are immune because of their faith. https://www.dailykos.com/story/2020/7/9/1959504/-82-test-positive-for-COVID-19-after-attending-Missouri-Christian-summer-camp
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The Rev. William C, Millhouse
I find this totally disgusting. These people are anything but Christian and a special place is being prepared in Hell for them. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Did Satan tell you that, Willy? Christian heaven seems like Hell to me. Are you sure that isn't the place they'll be going. I'm sure they won't be going to the part of the promised Land as me. I've got front row seats to watch Judas Priest perform throughout eternity. And we won't let them join us.
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Rebecca L Tice
How do we know that this was not God's plan? Are any of us... including the author of this article.... smarter than God? This girl passed because she obeyed her parents. That's a good thing. Who's to say that if she had not fallen to COVID that she would have survived until today? Perhaps the alternative was that she would be hit by a stray bullet to lay in a coma for years. No one knows.... but I do know that God uses cases like this to show His involvement.
Maybe we should consider that this child is now in the arms of the Savior.... she is not in pain.... she can breath easily... and she is known for honoring her mother and her father and the church......
I've read ignorant humans taking both sides of the mask issue. I live in Apache Junction, AZ.... the county requires a mask but the city does not.... and parts of the city are in one county and parts of the same city are in a different county. The governor of our state went on public tv and announced that when a person is released from jail or prison... in the state of Arizona.... they are issued two masks. This the home state of Tuscon where gunfights, bar brawls, bank and stagecoach robberies all executed by masked men were common place.... now issues two masks to those already convicted of crimes.... these are indeed strange times.
I have a friend who just split with the Mormon church.... she was so deep into the church that she says she had to get counseling for a sort of PTSD caused by the church. I had a friend who killed himself because the priest raped him and then told him he would never get to heaven because "he liked it". Still.... people need to be around "other Christians" so they have to go to church.... some to see and learn.... others to be seen and prosper financially.
I would not hang the mother.... she is only doing what she thought was right..... the church is supposed to be a safe place covered by the hand of God. She was only doing what she thought was right.... even the Pharisees who thought that Jesus was bringing a harmful message instead of seeing Him as the Son of God thought they were doing right.... and Jesus forgave them because they just didn't have the whole story.....
Please don't persecute the mother...... she was doing what she thought was right......
Please don't persecute the preacher who condoned or planned the gathering..... he was doing what he thought was right.....
I doubt they passed the hat at this COVID party.... it was probably meant to be a celebration of how wonderful it is when God is in charge..... so I really doubt that the preacher was in this for profit. I guess you could say they were really in it for prophets not profits..... and that's a good thing.... an exercise of faith.... regardless of how ill conceived... should be celebrated.... and this little girl.... well she's not in pain.... she's in Heaven.... where everything is Heavenly.... and given the choice... I'd trade places with her.... but then she would have to live with a detached retina, lyme disease, cancers and human ignorance..... and wishing that on her would be cruel.
Please don't persecute these people... it was ill conceived but it was a tremendous leap of faith on their part.
And she is a mother who made an ill conceived decision that killed her daughter.... she's been through enough... she will have to live with this for the rest of her life.... I pray for her walk.... that she can see that this was a human tragedy not an act of God.
That's how I see it today..... these are horrible times....
I've been posting a chapter of the Bible online with commentary and my thoughts for years..... and today I was reading about Stephen.... who walked into a nest of free thinkers..... Stephen was a good man.... and they murdered him..... this is a good woman..... don't stone her.... please.... https://forums.somd.com/threads/acts-7-a-history-lesson-and-murder.359836/
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Good woman? even the lowest of animals,l those we deem vermin, when they perceive danger will do all in their limited brains ability to protect their young. The clever rat who has multiple back up dens and escape points and senses so attuned to doing their best as a potential mother, that they can sense illness and even genetic mutations in males and will fight them to the death rather than mate with an inferior male.
A persons faith should not have any relevance to a criminal act, and sending your kid to get exposed to a dangerous virus is beyond any reasoned line of defense.
She needs to be held to account and made an example of to help stop this from happening with others who put faith over reason and endanger the next generation because of zealotry.
This isnt like losing your line of sight to your wee one at the park and they get grabbed and killed, due to a momentary distraction. This is a woman telling her child, ignore reason, and forsake thinking, put faith in the fictional and believe willful ignorance is bliss.
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Rebecca L Tice
Saul of Tarsus was riding along.... hunting down Christians to throw into jail.... and he was knocked down and blinded.... by God. When his eyesight was healed, he became a leader of the Christian Church. That woman believed this.
Jesus healed anyone who asked.... by faith. That woman believed this.
All things are possible with God... it's Biblical.....Jesus said it.....Matthew 19:26 .. the Christian Church preaches this.... That woman believed this.
I know you are angry.... I would have been too... some time ago.... I've seen people destroyed by the church.... most of the time tho... it's the fake shepherd who led the flock to do ignorant actions like this. It's the preacher who is in for the paycheck and the free housing..... who led this lamb to slaughter..... the mother.... was only a lamb herself and now she has lost a child.....
She was led by that church to do this ridiculously stupid thing.... and now she has to live with that decision for the rest of her life.
If this daughter had not contracted the virus.... or even if this daughter had contracted the virus and survived..... would we even be discussing "all things are possible through God" ? Her daughter was a martyr for Christ..... even if we don't like it.
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Minister Mike
The road to hell (and death) is paved with good intentions (and "doing what one believes is 'right' ")
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Z
@Rebecca L Tice, it's also God's will that reasonable, compassionate people will decry this horrible, cruel, willfully ignorant behavior on the part of this church. Smart people are God's children too, not just the negligent and the spiteful.
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Rebecca L Tice
As stated before... I'm studying the Bible from Genesis through chapter by chapter... this morning I made it to Acts 19.... interesting read considering this discussion is going on at the same time..... https://forums.somd.com/threads/acts-19-sweatbands-demons-and-riots.360302/
Now I read where that woman in Matthew.... who had the bleeding issue.... touched the hem of the coat Jesus was wearing and she was healed. Jesus felt the power going out of Him and turned around to see who touched Him... in the middle of a big crowd. His Apostles and disciples were amazed...
Then today in Acts 19 [link above] I learned that the handkerchief or apron Paul the disciple used while he was tent-making was used to heal people.... when Paul wasn't around.....
These are two examples of what is taught in the church today..... and people believe it to be true.... that's why that mother sent her daughter to the party and the church....
Now... in the same chapter.... Acts 19.... there were some people who were healing in the name of Jesus and Paul..... and that didn't work... the demon saw right through their unbelief..... see if they knew about Jesus .... then they would know that Paul was only a disciple doing miracles for Jesus..... they would know that Paul had a personal relationship with Jesus.... and that's why it worked.... God was using Paul..... most preachers don't preach the whole Bible....
Most preachers only preach the good parts of the Bible that will keep people coming back.... and keep them emptying their pockets.....
That's really dangerous for the mothers and daughters who believe the preacher without getting the whole story.....
Maybe that's why she sent her daughter to the party.... like the demon possessed man in Acts 19,,,, there was a lesson to be learned.....
Just saying... please understand that we probably don't have the whole story....
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Ill endeavor to explain something to you Rebecca Tice. This is not a christian centric site. While we try to be civil and open minded, that doesnt mean blind tolerance to those who use any faith tradition or religious mythology for purposes contrary to the betterment of the world as a whole.
We also by and large around here actively preach against blind faith in archaic beliefs like the above in the article that lead people to think their faith will keep them safe from illness.
We know it had nothing to do with demons, because those are and say it with me now FICTION! It does not matter what they are being preached, it does not matter what her faith is. The duty of any parent is to do their best to protect their offspring no matter what species. To fail in this is a crime in the truest sense of the word.
I find it hilarious the people who are anti abortion and anti womens rights think this case of a 15 year late post birth live teen age abortion via a truly inhumane means is just fine.
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T Kosse`
"How do we know that this was not God's plan? That's a good thing. Who's to say that if she had not fallen to COVID that she would have survived until today? Perhaps the alternative was that she would be hit by a stray bullet to lay in a coma for years. " "she is known for honoring her mother and her father and the church......"
You know if that was my son or daughter that had die and you had said that to me, I honestly would have slap you into the next state. How anyone could be so stupid cold and incentive is beyond me. How in the hell someone can so blind in their faith, that they would be so devoid of any humanity compassion or empathy towards another person.
I
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T Kosse`
First Assembly of God in Ft. Myers, Florida is a rather large Church I left out the names these are just all the staff job titles, Senior Pastor , Senior Assistant Pastor, Minister of Music, College & Career and FSOD Pastor, Pastor of Apologetics, FSOD Dean & Family Pastor, Student Ministries Pastor, Women's Pastor, Pastoral Care Pastor, Christian Education Pastor, Children's Ministries Pastor, Care Facilities Pastor, Missions & Care Facilities Pastor, Cornerstone Campus Lead Pastor, Spanish Campus Lead Pastor, Spanish Campus Children's Pastor, Spanish Campus Student Ministries Pastor, Staff Evangelist. They all had to known about this party, yet not one of them said or did anything to stop it.
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Daniel Gray
Then this is all on the mother, the church has nothing to do with it. If the child didnt want to go the mother should not have "encouraged" or made her go
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Lionheart
I doubt we know the real facts. The headline says she was “forced” to attend, then the first sentence says she was “encouraged” to attend, by her mother. It’s a typical type of headline that the liberal press loves to drum up, unless there are liberal led riots, in which case you will see very few headlines, if any.
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Alexander Clarke
You can't fix stupid. All religions say they are the "one and only way" and they all believe that they are "special" and that their god will protect them. Education can cure ignorance but nothing can cure stupidity especially religious stupidity.
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Daniel Gray
You mean like your post here?
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Minister Mike
Yes, precisely like his post here. If you read it and heed it, you, too, can end your stupidity (religious or otherwise)
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Daniel Gray
the only stupidity I see here is coming from you. But do continue...
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T Kosse`
You're the only one that "continuing" being stupid Daniel Gray
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Daniel Gray
no sorry but that is clearly your expertise as you have that all wrapped up and tied with a ribbon
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T Kosse`
Actually you have far more expertise, then I or anyone else on this planet could ever have at being stupid with the exception of Trump, there you two are equally stupid. Since I know you love Trump so much, that you be happy to know that something you both share in common. So you both hold the title of "Master of the Universe of Stupidity" You should be proud to know that one area of expertise that no one else in the whole galaxy can ever surpass you both at. So congratulation to you both for your achievement of "Master of the Universe of Stupidity"
You will receive your certificate of "Master of the Universe of Stupidity" in the mail so that you can proudly hang it on your wall, so all your friends (If you have any) and family see just how stupid you really are.
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Brien
The parents NEED to be arrested and convicted of murder. Manslaughter refers to an unintended death. The parents purposely allowed this young women to be exposed to a DEADLY DISEASE. There is no excuse. As far as I am concerned, your rights end when your faith causes harm. This is way beyond harm. I hope if there is a HELL that both parents spend eternity in it. I would rather they get the chair, but that is unlikely. Please, do not dare to try and justify these disgusting examples of humanity.
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Delphine S. Pillar
OMG!! How anyone can make a political thing out of this terrible loss is unbelievable. You are living in darkness, I have seen what comes after and you won't like it when you are called to account for the terrible unkindness I am reading here, and the people here are ministers?!! I am done after reading this, it is too heartbreaking , all the preventable losses of life because of an epidemic of stupidity and selfishness. Making life and death health issues into politics, how sick is that. ,Maybe if you lose your mother, your father, your child ,your gf, you might wake up, but I don't think so. TOTAL CASES 3,106,931 59,260 New Cases* I guess they died of their political affiliation. I seriously pray that people wake up.
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JKM
Hear, hear.
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Pastor Susie Timlick
Amen Delphine.. ignorance is just not a lack of education. It becomes of blindness that is created buy human beings who do what they want to hear and not what they need to do and listen to. And that includes those who call themselves Spiritual Leaders of a Flock. Sad that this precious child became a victim of this blindness and ignorance. Her sweet soul rests in the arms of the Heavenly Father now and until the time comes we will all come together again.
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Delphine S. Pillar
The Mother and Father should face charges of manslaughter in the first degree, the preacher should also face charges for this horrendous irresponsible behavior. There is no excuse for this kind of wanton selfishness and disregard for human life. The parents are more at fault, the child was high risk in the first place. That poor child to survive cancer and then have her life cut short by careless, idiot parents. Jesus was in no way selfish and was all about other people, he would never have put a child in harms way. He even gave a dire warning in the Bible about people who harmed children. If it was me I couldn't live with myself after such a thing. God forgive them, how do you kill your own child. I put more on the parents as they knew her history and vulnerability, but the minister should face charges of his own for putting hundreds of people at risk. What is wrong with people, the person above me who commented is part of the problem also and many like him, who give " strawman" arguments, shift responsibility and try to confuse the facts. Shame on him and anyone else who does this. I am an infection control practitioner for many years, none of my patients died from an infection. I am seeing what is going on and am just horrified by the entitlement, selfishness and irresponsibility. I learned something a long time ago, even though God loves us dearly, " God helps those who help themselves" Some of these comments show such immaturity and unkindness. You may be lucky but I lost two neighbors to the virus. If you don't care for yourself, at least be considerate to others safety. What I have seen happen to some children is horrible with the inflammatory syndrome that sometimes happens after. This virus is unpredictable, affects minorities and A+ blood types more than others. Also elderly and with pre-existing medical conditions like that poor child, you are also more susceptible if you have other viruses like herpes, hepatitis, etc. So because you don't get it or some have it and don't even know because their symptoms are so mild it is okay to go around infecting others. Many have it and don't even know it but can still infect vulnerable people. SHAME ON YOU, I just wonder how you are going to face Jesus when your time comes.
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Pastor Susie Timlick
I do so wish Delphine think I could take your response and place it on my Facebook page and request all the people that feel as you do and I do about this whole situation would flood the social media sites with your words clear concise compassionate to the point. As a Pastor as Minister's as Reverends as Priest we too are on the front lines.. There when the illness strikes, when passings occur and to be the comfort and strength for the families as they reel from the so many times the unnecessary loss of a loved one.
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Daniel Gray
Again the church didnt do anything, the parents were the ones; specifically the mother who made her go.
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T Kosse`
The Church is negligence by knowing creating an unsafe environment..
Criminal negligence refers to conduct in which a person ignores a known or obvious risk, or disregards the life and safety of others. Federal and state courts describe this behavior as a form of recklessness, where the person acts significantly different than an ordinary person under similar circumstances. An example is a parent leaving a loaded firearm within reach of a small child. In this case the loaded gun is the obvious known risk of contracting the Covid 19
Certain crimes base culpability on a criminally negligent standard. An example is the offense of involuntary manslaughter.
- he/she acted recklessly and created a high risk of death or great bodily injury, and
- a reasonable person would have known that these acts would create such a risk.1
Just like owners of any other property, religious institutions have a duty of care to protect worshipers and guests from harm. If the church management fails to take reasonable steps to prevent or correct dangerous situations, the church is then liable, meaning responsible for the person’s damages, injuries or death
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Gale Mallette
I Agreed
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Daniel Gray
Saying that is like saying a person getting sick in a hospital while waiting to visit family is negligence. Do you think before you post or just post to see your words?
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T Kosse`
You ever read and fully comprehend what is written, before you come up with your asinine replies.
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Daniel Gray
How can it be so when its fact?
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T Kosse`
And exactly what is it that a fact.
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Daniel Gray
Already showed you. For example on tonights news there was a worker at a senior center who felt a little sick but went into work anyway and her supervisors knew she was sick and allowed her to stay, and 30 people caught the virus. IN this case then yes the business is responsible. IN the case of the church, the only person who forced the child to go was the parents, and as such they and they alone should be responsible
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T Kosse`
Here CB Cuff reply to your answer
CB Cuff Jul 24, 2020 at 09:48 am
On June 10th, Carsyn’s mother took her daughter to a "COVID party" at their local church. The event, which defied all official safety guidelines issued during the pandemic, focused on bringing people together in a bizarre attempt to spite a virus that makes no distinction between color, creed, or belief system. The church in question allegedly spoke of COVID-19 as a hoax and argued that any casualties from the virus would simply be a result of "God's will." ~ Pretty clear the church acted irresponsibly by ignoring state warnings and calling it a "hoax", and by 'doing nothing', as you harp on, lead to the death of this young girl. End of story.
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T Kosse`
What you wrote is a bad analogy, therefore it does not apply to what I wrote.
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Daniel Gray
It clearly does apply, sorry about your luck
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T Kosse`
Sorry but it doesn't, how do you equate a church with a hospital .
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T Kosse`
In what way are they similar.
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Daniel Gray
Already showed you how they are similar.
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T Kosse`
No you didn't
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
We're glad you figured it out, little Danny! Why do you keep restating it? That doesn't make it any clearer to us.
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Daniel Gray
So why then do you keep responding?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Don't fret, Danny boy. I just feel like your comments are worthy of a little sarcasm, from time to time. And I do expect the same in return.
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Daniel Gray
No you are such that you like being proved wrong
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CB Cuff
Daniel Gray; your point is clear that 'the church didn't do anything', but you're obviously confused about the benefits of the church's ignorant belief that there was no risk to children attending a 'party'. Their failure to do anything is exactly why they are responsible. Given what the informed world now knows about the virus, there was likely someone else at the 'party' who was already infected, and/or someone else has now been infected..... other children may also die. Is that okay Daniel Gray, you can sleep at night knowing that might happen... maybe to one of your own?? Tell us you're okay with that Daniel.
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T Kosse`
Talk to a lawyer or insurance agent they both would tell the same thing that I just told you.
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Daniel Gray
No I am not confused, but you clearly are. This is no different the spring break, other then its the parents that made the children attend. So how can you sleep at night trying to blame an innocent party? If the parents had not made the children go then there would not have been any children at the party. How hard is this for you to understand??
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CB Cuff
On June 10th, Carsyn’s mother took her daughter to a "COVID party" at their local church. The event, which defied all official safety guidelines issued during the pandemic, focused on bringing people together in a bizarre attempt to spite a virus that makes no distinction between color, creed, or belief system. The church in question allegedly spoke of COVID-19 as a hoax and argued that any casualties from the virus would simply be a result of "God's will." ~ Pretty clear the church acted irresponsibly by ignoring state warnings and calling it a "hoax", and by 'doing nothing', as you harp on, lead to the death of this young girl. End of story.
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Daniel Gray
thank you for proving my point...in your reply YOU said "Carsyn’s mother took her daughter" It was very clear that the church didnt force her to come, it was the mother. And as I said the mother bears sole responsibility for the death of her daughter
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T Kosse`
You only see,hear and read what fit into your precondition narrow-mind ideas
He also wrote this as well. but you willfully ignored it because it does not fit into your narrow-minded world view.
The church in question allegedly spoke of COVID-19 as a hoax and argued that any casualties from the virus would simply be a result of "God's will." ~ Pretty clear the church acted irresponsibly by ignoring state warnings and calling it a "hoax", and by 'doing nothing', as you harp on, lead to the death of this young girl. End of story.
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CB Cuff
The D. Gray's are an example of what undermines the intelligence of earthlings.
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T Kosse`
You're so right about that.
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Daniel Gray
and if you would remove your genes from the gene pool it would increase the intelligence of the world by 1000%
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Daniel Gray
Sorry buy you just proved that I am correct and you are a fool. You just admitted that it was the PARENT who took the child to the gathering, not the church. And as such its the PARENT who shoulders the responsibility, not the church. And to think you did this with your eyes wide open. Maybe next time you should engage you tiny brain first before flapping gums and you would not look so foolish as you do now.
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Christian
ALL MADE OF FLESH WILL DIE. Are you Ready to Face God Almighty?
Jesus Saves, in life we Love and Live for Jesus, and in Death we return to God. No fear because we Know Love : Love is God, Jesus is the Way.
The Way of Love is VICTORY over all sin and all death for al time, past, current, and future.
For those that Love Jesus - we all shall meet again on the Golden Shores of Heaven !
THANKS BE TO GOD.
A M E N.
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John
The woman died of ignorance, supported and encouraged in that cause by her ignorant Mother. People who put their children in harms way and then claim ignorance should be brought up on charges of child neglect.She should not be allowed to walk away stating this tragedy was "God's" will.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
To quote a famous person "My mama told me that stupid is as stupid does."
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Johnny Mac
First off how many more died or were infected? Who gave it to her? Did she get it from her church or from someplace else she visited? I accuse RawStory of journalistic misconduct for not including those facts with their story! Also where are the investigators notes on what they found? How many more attendees have even been tested? The whole pandemic was a lie! I have been mask-less for the last 4 months and have been to 4 counties and 4 major cities in those counties, Walmarts and Food lion’s and churches and test negative for the virus! I am 67 years old! I get regular sinus infections each year! I walk outside in the countryside and I tested negative! I have not been given flu vaccine in 3 years! Pneumonia vaccine was last given 2 years ago! My gut revolts on me regularly as I lost my gall bladder. My faith is strong! Quit being wimps and get back to work and enjoy your church! Remember what House taught you. Everybody lies to their doctors! Amen
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T Kosse`
You know in honesty Johnny Mac I really don't give a damn if you get it, Just stay the hell away from everyone else.
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Pastor Susie Timlick
I counter this with the numbers that have not been officially posted that have been adjusted shall we say by the government here in Florida. You're very lucky obviously God has a purpose for you here. Thinking maybe that that purpose should be that you would encourage people to do the safe practices. And not refer to them as wimps. I am 72 and in relatively very good health.The week before Easter I came down with the " hoax virus " I was in bed and close to a door I don't want to ever get close to again for 22 days. I still have remnants left behind because of the virus. But it does not deter me, it does not stop me, it does not impede me going out and caring for those who I am called to help. I wear a mask, carry hand sanitizer and spray disinfectant in my vehicle and offer them to my visitations in the event they don't have these available.as I carry extras. it is just common sense. So you've been Blessed and once again I would say to you maybe you're very Well Health has been given to you so you could serve a purpose and that Purpose being putting out the WORD about SAFE PRACTICES . He will smile when you save your brothers and sisters in Christ. God Bless..Stay well and Stay Safe..
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Asa William Sprague, II
Congratulatioins! You may be one of the precious few who are immune to Covid-19, or, you're exceptionally lucky. Sadly, 136,000 people have died in the USA from Covid-19; and the number is still climbing. To those unfortunate souls who have died from Covid-19, the pandemic is neither a hoax nor a lie.
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T Kosse`
Global: Total confirmed cases: ~13,027,000; deaths: ~571,000
U.S.: Total confirmed cases: ~3,347,000; deaths: ~136,000
Source: Johns Hopkins University
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Can we just keep playing along until after they've given us atleast a few more stimulus payments. Those of us who play by the rules, and survive, will only be better for it, and a little richer in the end.
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T Kosse`
Two top health officials in the Trump administration said they “expect deaths to go up” in the U.S. as coronavirus cases continue to skyrocket in parts of the country. Admiral Brett Giroir, an assistant secretary with the Health and Human Services department, and surgeon general Dr. Jerome Adams both emphasized their concerns about the surging outbreaks, many of which are occurring in areas where people haven’t followed the recommendations from the CDC on how to limit the spread. “We’re all very concerned about the rise in cases, no doubt about that,” said Adm. Giroir, who has been in charge of the Trump administration’s testing response. “We do expect deaths to go up. If you have more cases, more hospitalizations, we do expect to see that over the next two or three weeks before this turns around.”
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T Kosse`
The World Health Organization acknowledged that the coronavirus may become airborne and spread through particles in the air in “indoor crowded spaces.” The agency also acknowledged that the virus can be transmitted by people who do not have symptoms. WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus warned that “the pandemic is still accelerating.”
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Daniel Gray
Considering that the WHO is in the pocket of the Chinese Government, nobody listens to them anymore as they were the same ones who first said this was nothing to worry about
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ronald wolfe
What libtard wrote this aritcle. Its very obviously slanted to the democratic side. To say that hydroxychloroquine was falsley touted as a cure by president trump is an out right lie I challenge you to show any proff that he ever said it was a cure! He never said that he said it showed promising results in many studies as a POSSSIBLE prevetion drug not a cure! stop posting lies about president trump and blaming him. If you look at the facts im sure you will find this your innocent victim had underlying conditions as almost no one dies from covid alone, especially young people. as a cancer survivor she or her mother should have not had her attend this event I agree but most people should be allowed to attend. This is still the United States of America and we still have some individula rights, although not many are left im sure they will all be soon gone. For now each person should be smart enough to make up their own mind what events they can safely attend. no one is being forced to attend any of them. If you dont feel comfortable going stay home but dont put others down that choose to attend. Hillsdale college has 35000 student they didnt shut down and to date they still have 0 cases of covid. My point is simply we are all able to choose for ourselves what we feel is a risk and to attend or not, as is and instiutuion can choose to hold events it is up to the people to decide if they wish to attend or not. THis country is not a dictatorship. Its been clear from the begining that no doctor or so called expert knows what is going on . rememer the changing many times about if masks should be worn not? remember the prediciton of millions of deaths? some how we can not have large gatherings of people for a funeral or parade but thousands can riot and destroy businesses and our so called doctor experts say that the parades and funerals are deadly yet the riots are not because it benefits a greater casue.
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T Kosse`
In answers to ronald wolfe comments/statement
There are two parts to this. The first part is about Trump & hydroxychloroquine.. The second part is about Your rights when they impose on the health well-being of others.
On March 21 President Trump touted hydroxychloroquine – and its biochemical cousin, chloroquine – as potential “game changers” in the battle against COVID-19. Two months later, he announced on national television that he had been taking the drug himself as a preventative treatment.
During the 10-week period between Feb. 17 and April 27 doctors wrote approximately 483,000 more prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine than in the same time period in 2019. The week after President Trump mentioned the drug during a press conference, prescriptions were up more than 200% compared to the previous year. The vast majority of excess prescriptions were written between March 14 and April 4, but as news spread about shortages of the drug and the lack of evidence to support its use, prescribing returned quickly to normal.
Trump’s full remarks on hydroxychloroquine from his Sunday briefing.
Trump: We bought a tremendous amount of … hydroxychloroquine, which I think is, you know, it’s a great malaria drug. It’s worked unbelievably, it’s a powerful drug on malaria. And there are signs that it works on [coronavirus], some very strong signs. And in the meantime, it’s been around a long time, and also works very powerfully on lupus. So there are some very strong, powerful signs, and we’ll have to see. Because again, it’s being tested now, this is a new thing that just happened to us, the invisible enemy, we call it.
… It’s a very strong, powerful medicine, but it doesn’t kill people. We have some very good results and some very good tests. You’ve seen the same test that I have. In France, they had a very good test. But we don’t have time to go and say, gee, let’s take a couple of years and test it out. And let’s go and test with the test tubes and the laboratories. We don’t have time. I’d love to do that.
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump · Mar 21 HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents).....
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP said on Monday that he has been taking hydroxychloroquine every day for about a week and a half because he hears "good things" about the drug. He has touted it as a potential treatment for the coronavirus, though it has not been proven to be effective and Trump said he doesn't have the virus.
The president said he isn't experiencing any symptoms of the coronavirus. He said he gets tested for it every couple of days and his results have always been negative.
"I take it because, I think, I hear very good things," Trump said, adding that he has heard of frontline workers and doctors taking it as a preventative measure.
The president said he asked the White House doctor if he could take the drug, which has long been used to treat malaria, along with zinc.
"All I can tell you is, so far I seem to be okay," he said.
When asked about the evidence behind using hydroxychloroquine in relation to the coronavirus, Trump said that he's received "a lot of positive calls about it."
"I want the people of this nation to feel good. I don't want them being sick, and there's a very good chance this has an impact, especially early on," Trump said during a meeting with restaurant executives.
No you're wrong Your rights ends when they impose on the health well-being of others
US courts almost always deferred to public health authorities that have deprived individuals of their liberty in the name of public health. One US state high court declared at the beginning of the twentieth century that, “[i]t is unquestionable that the legislature can confer police powers upon public officers for the protection of the public health. The maxim Salus populi suprema lex is the law of all courts in all countries. The individual right sinks in the necessity to provide for the public good” (Parmet, 1985). Even more remarkably, a plenary grant of authority was still found to be constitutional in the 1960s. In upholding the detention of a person with tuberculosis pursuant to a statute that provided virtually no procedural protections, a California appellate court declared in 1966 that, “[h]ealth regulations enacted by the state under its police power and providing even drastic measures for the elimination of disease...in a general way are not affected by constitutional provisions, either of the state or national government.”
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Brien
Well done!
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flugo
Excellent!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I like it when flugo only posts one word comments.
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T Kosse`
He must have had a brain fart. Those other times he posted he must have a bad case of diarrhea.
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Asa William Sprague, II
Hillsdale College (Michigan) stopped all class activities in March 2020. They have yet to reopen.
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Tom
rESPECTFULLY...WHEN CHURCH LEADERS AND/OR PARENTS ACT LIKE THIS, IT IS THEM PLAYING GOD...they do not understand that God is not anthropormorphic; God does not direct people's lives; and God does not have rules...the parent and these church "leaders" have serious ego problems...Peace...Tom B
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Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls
This was an absolute tragedy.Covid 19 is not a joke.This virus has the potential to wipe every human being from the earth.Where is the common sense in individuals? Stay six feet apart,practice social distancing.It's not complicated.This young child shouldn't have left this world in this manner.May she R.I.P.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Well, I did read someplace that he'll come like a thief in the night. If there's any truth in that this could be what was meant by it.
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Jason
It is sad that she is gone.
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William Cureton Fox
The role of "which" God is significant. I live in a physical world, with many real physical issues. If I avoid harm, caused by God, it is unlikely that I am unaware of what has append to me, not that I have promoted or dared God. I was in Vietnam for two years (1968 and 1969). I was an agnostic/atheist during that time of my life. Although there were dozens of rocket and mortar attacks over the two years, and many Marines were seriously hurt or killed, I was never injured. Often, I had been sleeping or drunk (I've been in AA forty years, praise God!)! So, was God protecting me and allowing many God fearing Marines to die? I tend to believe it was a good luck/bad luck situation, but I had some close calls? From my experience, everything in life is a risk. We have to understand what God wants us to do, whether we live of die. I am very thankful to God that I survived. I'm much more cautious to think about what I am doing today. Part of this is learning the Bible. Part of this is having prayed about what can be done for God. I'm sorry for this poor girl. Hear life was shortened by not understanding about being thankful for God and not testing God.
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James M Slack
To Whom All This May Concern I’m getting sick and tired of all you liberals wanting to put the blame on President. I guess you feel it’s easy. In no way did he or anyone else want to see this young lady pass away or others. If as much pressure was put on the protesting, rioting, looting and shootings, we may have accomplished something. It’s all to easy to blame the other person that your jealous of and I’d getting things done that you couldn’t. It’s gotten to the point that it’s not about BLM. It’s about taking over our great country. If that happens, I hope all envolved are happy. Well turn this country into a third world country and God help us. God Bless America
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm not a liberal or a Democrat, but hate Trump's guts anyway, and would love to hog tie and sodomize him, if he's willing, in the name of Jesus, during a photo-op in front of a church, while praising the Lord. Hallelujah!!!
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Carla Ruth Robinson
We're already a third world dictatorship in the making, mainly due to the wilfully ignorant Fox addicts such as yourself. James.
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Anisahoni
What does your ranting have to do with this tragic story. This virus doesn't discriminate based on politicla ideology. Take it elsewhere.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If the good ol' ULC didn't like it they wouldn't have posted it. So, take your crap elsewhere, lady! They only posted your rude response so I would correct you. And you'll know that when you see that they've posted this, too. This isn't a free for all. They only post what they they think is appropriate.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And not only that mam, but I've received numerous e-mails over the years stating they appreciate my comments, and encourage me to continue contributing to this blog.
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Minister Mike
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 They send those emails to EVERYBODY who writes a post.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And Aunt Minnie's insurance man used to send me the most beautiful birthday and Christmas cards every year, when I was a kid.
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The Heretic Hour
"Democrat" is the correct word. Putin is running America sanctioned by every Republican holding public office, so no I do not blame Trump.. Sounds like you are packing alot of hate. Peace be with you.
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JKM
Well stated. The hateful responses & name-calling here are mind-boggling to me.
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Daniel Gray
well well yet another snowflake speaks. And how do you justify your myths when even the investigation into Trump said that your Russian Boogyman was all a lie? I mean good Lord, even Steele was just fined close to 100,000 dollars american in a british court for his part in this fake claim.
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T Kosse`
Snowflake A very sensitive person. Someone who is easily hurt or offended by the statements or actions of others.
Hmmmm You know, that sound a lot like you Daniel Gray
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Daniel Gray
and yet here you are spamming the thread and calling names, Seems the post you wrote clearly refers to you
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
James M Slack, you sound like a loud mouth sissy. Why don't you come down here to Galveston, and prove me wrong?! I bet if fuckwad Trump asked you to you'd get down on your knees, and give him head.
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Brien
If stupid were against the law you would have a life sentence.
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T Kosse`
This one is called the Hillbilly Law of Stupidity. Which strangely enough seem to describe Trump
The First Law of Stupidity is to blame all of your problems on someone else. This relieves you of any responsibility whatsoever for your life, and also makes the people you blame your problems on into permanent enemies. This is a highly intelligent thing to do!
The Second Law of Stupidity is to never learn from your mistakes. The smartest people learn from other people’s mistakes, the second smartest learn from their own, and the dumbest don’t even learn from their own mistakes.
The Third Law of Stupidity is to talk or act without thinking. That is, be impulsive! It’s the same thing as being ruled by your more childish, indeed infantile, feelings.
The Fourth Law of Stupidity is to think than what you feel is what is right. One of the things it’s based on is arrogance, or what the Greeks called Hubris. It is of course followed by Nemesis.
The Fifth Law of Stupidity is not to know you are impulsive and convinced that what feel is what is right. Instead, you believe you are rational and logical, even though you don’t know even one logical fallacy.
The Sixth Law of Stupidity is to not listen to good advice. This is related to the Second, Third and Fourth Law of Stupidity. In fact, all the Laws of Stupidity are related to each other, and it’s probable that all Stupid People show all of them in one degree or another.
The Seventh Law of Stupidity: you don’t know you’re stupid. In fact, you think you’re smart! Aristotle noticed this one, when he wrote about ignorant people who didn’t know they were ignorant. That was like 2500 years ago! Oh no! Stupidity is inherited! Someone get me one of those castration things that are used on sheep.
The Eighth Law of Stupidity: you can’t tell when someone is smarter than you and almost always think you’re smarter than them. This is related to what I call Scott’s Law, after a friend of mine who formulated it: “The smart understand the stupid a lot better than the stupid understand the smart.”
The Ninth Law of Stupidity is that you can have a high IQ and still be stupid. I’ve heard these people referred to as “high-IQ idiots.”
The Tenth Law of Stupidity is: “The stupid are always really surprised when they end up in prison or when someone kills them.”
It’s a bit frightening to realize there are Ten Laws of Stupidity, just as there are Ten Commandments (although “Commandments” is the wrong word – Utterances, or Words, is correct).
Let’s see if I can put all this into one sentence. Stupid people blame their problems on other people, they never learn from their mistakes, they think and act impulsively, they always think they’re right, they think they are logical and rational, they don’t know they’re stupid, they think they’re smarter than other people, they don’t listen to good advice, and they’re amazed when they get caught.
The Laws of Smartness, of course, are the exact opposite of the Laws of Stupidity.
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T Kosse`
Trump claimed that “nobody ever heard” that Abraham Lincoln was a member of the Republican Party before Trump became president. “Like people don’t remember, nobody ever heard of it until I came along, nobody remembered it for a long time, or they didn’t use it at least, I use it all the time: Abraham Lincoln was a Republican,” Trump said. He added: “You know you say that and people say, ‘I didn’t know that,’ but he was Republican, so we’re doing a great job.”
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T Kosse`
Well we have the King of Stupidity sitting in the White House surrounded by his merry band of imbecile.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Coming from an idiot like Brien I take that as a compliment. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. So there, take that, you nave!
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Brien
Carl the comment was for James, but if you wish to spit at me, pack a lunch buttercup. You will be here awhile.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Sorry Brien, they sometimes put our comments where we don't intend for them to go. I've always liked the things you've said, especially when I realize where you meant them to be.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Brien, that picture of you makes you look really stupid. And the things you say only contribute to making it worse. But keep it up, I love the laughter it gives me. I'm laughing at you, all the time!
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Brien
Carl, I am happy to make you laugh. If you wish to troll for a fight, pick someone else. I only battle true stupidity, not clown trolls.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You sure do call people stupid a lot, Brien. Could you be projecting onto others what you don't want to see in yourself?
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T Kosse`
Dr. Anthony Fauci advised states “having a serious problem” with a surge in coronavirus cases to “seriously look at shutting down.” The government’s top infectious disease expert said some states “went too fast” with reopening and that in other states, residents didn’t follow social distancing guidelines. Trump, meanwhile, continued to push to reopen the country as quickly as possible despite the U.S. setting another record for new cases on Wednesday – the fifth national record in nine days. At least five states — Missouri, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and West Virginia — set single-day records for new infections on Wednesday as the daily number of new cases had increased by 72% over the past two weeks.
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Minister Mike
Get you're bucket, eat some crackers, and be ready to be sick some more. The orange lyin' king is, through his childish lack of leadership, responsible for more deaths during this pandemic than any other single or combined reason.
I'm neither liberal nor conservative. I'm pretty much middle of the road on most issues. But 45 is not an issue - it's a murderer.
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T Kosse`
Are you ex Navy Minister Mike
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Giovanni T.Coleman
Hello to my brothers and sisters in Christ. We are the light of the world!! That being said we can't ignore Covic19. We have to continue to pray for our country and our leaders. I know it's not easy missing the assembling of us together in the temple, but for now it's not wise. Video service or service from your car. Unless we all wear masks and keep our distance. This pandemic is real and we to act accordingly. Nothing on this earth happens that our God doesn't already know about. "Pray for his guidance"
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Pastor Susie Timlick
AMEN..😔
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Minister Mike
Do you wish those good thoughts for only christians or was it a typo?
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Dave J
I hope manslaughter charges will be brought against the mother, the church, and after he's out of office, Donald Trump.
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Daniel Gray
And just what did the church do? absolutely nothing, just like Trump did nothing. You need to seek professional help because of your TDS virus
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Dave J
If the church did not have the service, specifically to deny Covid, then she would not have gone, and would not be dead. If Trump had not denied the existence of a real Pandemic, then we would be more like Canada with 300 new cases a day instead of thousands.
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Z
@Daniel Gray, this church DELIBERATELY hosted a party where plague rats were served as hors d'oeuvres and the sick were made to spit in each others' mouths. They opened fire with live ammunition on their congregation. They locked Christians in and set fire to the building. They absolutely share the responsibility for this. And this will not be the only death this gathering causes.
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Daniel Gray
So using your logic, then all the places that allowed Spring Break where hundreds if not thousands of people got this virus, should also be held responsible....right?
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Z
That's a good question. Honestly, I think anyone involved in following through with Spring Break does have something to answer for, yes; but in general Spring Break was something already happening that just wasn't stopped in time, when it wasn't clear yet how serious things are.
I think most of those businesses would behave differently if they had it to do over again. What this church did was a new event, created MONTHS into the crisis with hundreds of thousands already dead and outbreaks everywhere.
It's the difference between having an old building with lead paint from a time when no one knew better, and going out to BUY lead paint out of spite, painting a cell and locking your kids inside. Just to show 'em!
One is merely ignorant; the other is criminal.
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Daniel Gray
And as I said, its the parents who should be held responsible for this
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Z
Turns out you didn't say that. Don't believe me? Scroll up and see for yourself. You said the church did "absolutely nothing".
That is wrong. The church not only contributed to this situation, they CREATED the situation. They handed out guns and said, "Hey, here's a good idea, everybody shoot your kids dead." And people did.
Are the parents responsible? Of course. But to claim that the church's hands are sparkling clean is seriously deluded.
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Daniel Gray
and the church did absolutely nothing. They hosted bingo partys and birthday parties and retirement parties...so I guess you are going to try and blame them for that as well? And I guess you intentionally missed the post right above yours where I clearly said it was the parents fault for forcing the child to this
Daniel Gray Jul 23, 2020 at 04:57 pm (0 votes)
And as I said, its the parents who should be held responsible for this
You need to come out of your ivory tower child
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Z
A birthday party is not a "COVID party". One is incidentally dangerous - the other is INTENTIONALLY dangerous. The fact that you can't comprehend the difference doesn't make them the same.
... And you realize you're quoting the very post where you claimed you said something as proof that you previously said it, right?
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Gale Mallette
What kind of god are they serving? Omg that's horrible.
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Mark Anthony Crnkovich
What did the church do wrong? All I see is well over 100 children gathered, and 1 was KILLED by their mother. No one else is, or should be involved in this story. The title should be, "Mother kills daughter" nothing in this was covid-19 fault, nor was it the church's fault.
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Daniel Joel Gibson II
When you lead a group of people across hot-coals some will get burnt, badly; known risks, known rewards.
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Mark Anthony Crnkovich
When one "Leads" others must "follow" to be associated with a "group". Not all risks are known or presented to the group in multiple ways to make sure everyone understands the facts and information, to reduce the risk of getting "burnt"(as you described here). The WHO paid people to spread misinformation about the virus and then had to pay "influencers" to bring back faith in the WHOS word. The whole covid-1984 is very suspicious and we definitely shouldn't be wasting time talking about whether churches are responsible for mass gatherings...... We are all one, and we all can worship the all knowing anywhere we feel safe, since our bodies are the temple with which we can worship. Stay blessed brothers and sisters.
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Joshua Peter Kiem
COVID knows no faith. Catholic Italy, Protestant UK, Muslim Iran, Jewish Israel have all been afflicted.
COVID knows two things:
1 How to replicate in our temple bodies, and 2. How to hitchhike on a wet exhalation to the next temple body.
In the 1300’s, the people who are likely NOT our ancestors prayed and died. They’re not our ancestors because they and their families died horrible deaths.
Churches do good things for their communities. Exposing them to COVID isn’t one of them.
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Gale Mallette
True but God gives us common sense. If Holy spirit is involved one will hear the direction to take.
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T Kosse`
Well apparently they weren't standing in the line when god was handing out common sense. They thought they were in the other line for stupendous, but it really was the line for stupidity.
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Christian
God Bless the 1st Amendment protecting our Pre-Existing, natural god given HUMAN RIGHTS to Worship in the Faith we Love. Phillipians 4:6 states, "Do not be anxious about anything but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God. " In 1 John 5:14 it states, "And this is the confidence that we have toward Him. If we ask according to His will, He hears us."
The godless communist-globalist-antichrists will never understand : it is good to live for Jesus, and it is also good to die and return to our Lord God.
For all will die that are made of fallen flesh, but for the believers - we understand our container is not us - our Soul longs to return to God, and our Spirit rejoices the moment it is freed from thus old leather bag...
Rejoice for those who have gone ahead of you - they make the way for your turn to return to God.
For we are already born Twice, once in the flesh, and the second birth when we accept Jesus into our hearts and are BORN AGAIN... For the life to come - more wonderful than your greatest imagination !
PRAISE JESUS ! 1. GOD. 2. FAMILY. 3. COUNTRY.
Put these first in your life, and lean not on the wicked empty thought of the hopeless and haters...
LOVE is God. Love LOVE. Love All Beings. Love your Self. Love enemies and create new friendships.
When your turn comes to Die - are you Ready ?
REPENT & RETURN TO THE LORD.Ask Jesus Christ into your Heart RIGHT NOW. Know with Christ inside your heart - you have received ETERNAL SALVATION - GOD is with you now & you shall return to GOD when this tool, this temple is no more. Eternal Life is yours forever.
For we are the Chosen, the Children of the Living God, the Saved, Blessed not by our own faith or works, but Blessed by the Grace of Christ's DEATH ON THE CROSS !
Jesus Lives ! Jesus Saves !
JESUS IS THE WAY.May the Creator open your heart & mind to the Truth & Love of Jesus.
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Another human sacrificed at the Church of Trump by foolish political idiots. I hope after Trump is deposed, the new law abiding AG will bring charges against the mother and the pastor at that idiotic church. Do you think Trump cares if she died of an early needless death? The wages of following false gods and teachings are death. Pastor Greg Locke has a lot to answer for to God in the near future.