The Supreme Court just agreed to hear a case challenging Colorado’s ban on conversion therapy for minors.
The case, which will be heard later this year, is being brought by a Christian counselor who says that Colorado’s anti-conversion therapy laws restrict her First Amendment rights as a Christian to counsel the LGBTQ+ community from a biblical angle. Colorado is one of 20 states that currently outlaw the practice.
LGBTQ+ rights activists have long argued that conversion therapy, especially for minors, is tantamount to torture, and can have incredibly harmful results for LGBTQ+ youth.
The case has massive potential repercussions, as a precedent-setting ruling could pave the way for nationwide legalization of the controversial practice.
Will the Supreme Court overturn the ban on conversion therapy for minors?
A First Amendment Violation?
Colorado’s laws “silence counselors’ ability to express views their clients seek,” reads the lawsuit brought against the state of Colorado by Kaley Chiles, who is being represented by Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF).
According to Chiles, many of her clients are Christian, struggling with unwanted same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria. But Chiles is restricted by law from counseling questioning minors to embrace opposite-sex attraction and their assigned birth gender.
“Colorado’s law prohibits what’s best for these children and sends a clear message: the only option for children struggling with these issues is to give them dangerous and experimental drugs and surgery that will make them lifelong patients,” said ADF CEO, President and General Counsel Kristen Waggoner. “We are eager to defend Kaley’s First Amendment rights and ensure that government officials may not impose their ideology on private conversations between counselors and clients.”
Courting Controversy
The case is similar to one the Supreme Court declined to hear last year – a decision which was lambasted by the conservative wing of the court.
At the time, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas opined that “licensed counselors cannot voice anything other than the state-approved opinion on minors with gender dysphoria without facing punishment,” a sentiment which Justice Samuel Alito agreed with.
“In recent years, 20 States and the District of Columbia have adopted laws prohibiting or restricting the practice of conversion therapy,” Alito wrote at the time. “It is beyond dispute that these laws restrict speech, and all restrictions on speech merit careful scrutiny.”
Based on those comments, it's clear where some justices stand. The big question: will others join them to author a landmark ruling on conversion therapy?
Why Is Conversion Therapy So Controversial?
Conversion therapy has a long history, dating back to the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It emerged alongside early psychological theories that viewed homosexuality as a mental illness or moral failing, and in the early 1900s, medical professionals experimented with extreme methods to "cure" same-sex attraction, including electroshock therapy, chemical castration, aversion conditioning, and even lobotomies.
Throughout the mid-to-late 20th century, religious and psychological groups promoted talk therapy and behavioral modification techniques as ways to change a person's sexual orientation or gender identity. Though clearly less dangerous than a lobotomy, survivors of talk therapy often report severe psychological distress, including depression, anxiety, PTSD, and suicidal ideation as a result of these interventions.
As UN Independent Expert on sexual orientation and gender identity, Victor Madrigal-Borloz, puts it:
“Practices of conversion therapy are not only ineffective, but they can also be extremely harmful. They often lead to pain and suffering that will last far beyond their occurrence, leaving indelible scars on a person's body and mind. The combined effects of feeling powerless and extreme humiliation generate profound feelings of shame, guilt, self-disgust and worthlessness, which can result in a damaged self-concept and enduring personality changes.”
How Will the Court Rule?
At the heart of the case is whether Colorado’s ban on conversion therapy for minors is a restriction of Christian counselors’ First Amendment right to free speech. Chiles and her lawyers say yes, arguing that they have every right to counsel minors away from same-sex attraction or transgender identity.
But LGBTQ+ advocates say that conversion therapy is a harmful, unscientific practice which only serves to cause further distress in vulnerable people. And they say it needs to be restricted by law – especially for minors, who may be forced against their will to attend conversion therapy by their parents.
The case will be argued in the court's new term, starting in October. A decision isn't expected until sometime next year.
What are your thoughts? Should conversion therapy for minors be against the law, or does such a ban restrict the religious freedom of Christian therapists?
274 comments
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Michael Hunt
Conversion therapy is not therapy, it is the torture of a queer person because of who they are. If a religious group, or any group, believed that a child that was left handed needed to be beaten with a switch until they bled, we would be up in arms to stop them from harming children. All conversion therapy does is harm children and we should not tolerate any group who is doing things that are overwhelmingly documented to be harmful pseudoscience.
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Lawrence Pearce
Do you also condemn the "CONVERSTION therapy" that pedos use to groom and molest children?
Examples from real life include spiking a child's drink with alcohol or sedatives so they fall asleep for the pedo to abuse the child... and promising to buy a toy for a child if they will remove their clothes for the pedo to take photos. Those are the most harmful conversion therapies that physically harm children and cause lifelong traumas.
The pedo approved "conversion therapy" is practiced every day without one word of protest from the LBGTQ gang and we can all wonder why they are silent... or we can follow the evidence to expose the pedos.
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Michael Hunt
What is "CONVERSTION therapy"? Did you mean to say "conversion therapy"? If so, what you are describing is not conversion therapy. It's simply grooming for pedophilia which I, the LGBTQ community, and hopefully all sane people condemn.
Conversion therapy is the pseudoscientific practice of attempting to change an individual's sexual orientation, romantic orientation, gender identity, or gender expression to align with heterosexual and cisgender norms. It has nothing to do with grooming children into pedophilia.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
As a licensed professional who deals with kids and families and mental health, this is yet another issue that needs to be dealt with and appropriate decisions made among a treatment team that knows what it is doing: a child, a child's family, their MD practitioner, Therapist(s) and Interdisciplinary staff.
While abortion and other medically sensitive issues are paraded about by the "devout" in this case it's a live, fully formed person, a person whose spirit has come to live here, newly or again, but, in the rush to live...? Something might have gone askew.
At least that's my thoughts on the matter.
Maybe the person's spirit, body and mind need some help so the person who came to live with us can live with us as a whole person.
I don't have all the answers. But the people who want to interfere with Trans people's efforts to be whole? Demons with a quick Biblical Reference.
Which, if they were Jewish, would know the Bible is just stories anyway.
Because gods never really "spoke" to anyone but certain people. And that's why work in mental health.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I think those people who God speaks to out loud are called unmedicated schizophrenics. However, I do believe our deities speak to the rest of us through intuitive thoughts.
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Lawrence Pearce
Scientifically and genetically speaking, there are no trans people. There are men who may wear a dress like a woman... like the Scottish kilt, and there are women who may dress like a man... like girls who dress up like a man... but there are no trans people because there is no actual, identifiable gene marked trans in our DNA.
It's an imaginary thing that may stem from memories of a previous life before the child chose to be born into a different physical body in this life.
As parents and adults, it's our responsibility to counsel the child to accept the body that they have in this life, otherwise they will be frustrated and depressed, even if they choose to undergo genital mutilations later as adults.
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Michael Hunt
Science has validated the existence of transgender persons for over a century now. Just because there is not one specific gene that tells us if a person is trans or not does not mean it is not affected by genetics. You need to educate yourself on topics you are going to comment on before you make a post because so far you've only proven your ignorance of the topic.
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Lionheart
Where is your evidence to support your claim that we “chose to be born into a different physical body in this life”? In fact, where is your evidence to support we existed before we were born?
🦁❤️
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Lawrence Pearce
Hundreds of testimonies from thousands of intelligent people who died in hospitals and experienced life above this earthly level of existence. Look up NDEs on youtube.
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Lionheart
Yes, I am totally aware of near death experiences. However, there has been a great deal of scientific study on the bodily functions of death, especially the brain. The reason it’s called near death experience is because the body has not completely died and is going through a variety of processes. People who have had what are called “near death experiences” say they have experienced many things during that time which causes them to believe everything is true. Some people have said they have seen Jesus, some have said they have seen Krishna. Everything seems to be related to their life here on earth.
You might want to check out, “The Fallacy of Near Experiences.”
Thank you for your comment.
🦁❤️
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Shelly D Hancock
Given how much we've discovered regarding DNA in the last 30 years, we might still discover a DNA link. It's science.
What is a choice is hatred, intolerance and judgement as well as love, kindness and acceptance.
Peace to you
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Ty Ford
I think, if you've lowered yourself to THIS level as a TheMonastery, you need to consider shuttering your windows and doors and closing up shop.
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Michael Hunt
By what manner and what level has The Monastery lowered itself to?
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Yes, I agree. I find the topics here very archaic, unintelligrent.
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James Riggle-Johnson
The people filing this lawsuit are doing it under the premise that restrictions to these therapies violate their freedom of speech and religious beliefs. How is it “unintelligent” for the ULC not to post an article?
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Ellen B. Wentzel
The topic is one that is not intelligent if you know that people are born the way they are. This is an archaic idea. Gender, sexual orientation have to do with the combination of chromosomes and nothing else. It is not a choice, just as skin color is not a choice.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Ellen, I’m sorry I misunderstood your comment, and I totally agree with you. It is not a choice… I know I was born this way. It appears, by reading the comments on this article, that many ULC ministers disagree with that and fully support conversion therapy. I think that’s sad.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
We have to keep fighting. I don't think the stigma will ever go away. It is hard to open closed minds.
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David Cox
I think Satan has a hand in all of this. He has always tried to destroy what God has made. He is always doing things that God hates. He tries so hard to twist people's minds. Also to turn them away from God. A lot people's are ignorant of his ways. But if people would know God's word they would know the truth and the truthshall set you free. No matter what you think you are.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
So you’re confirming that satan is more powerful than your god.
And your god watches as babies and children are raped, never intervening to stop it. Some god.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
This comment won’t be adequately addressed other than perhaps to say ‘Free will!’.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Sometimes the silliness of the beliefs gets mixed with misconceptions of the facts to the point that it’s difficult to frame a serious response. To paraphrase a quote, I think by Jean-Jacques Rousseau, “I would find your argument easier to refute if you used words that made more sense.”
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Ellen B. Wentzel
They should not be ministers, as love and acceptance is everything.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
James, I totally agree with you. And I bet a lot of those ministers who speak in favor of conversion therapy are closet queens.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Ellen but it a choice as not one doctor or scientist or genealogist has ever proved otherwise
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Michael Hunt
Actually, they have: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat7693
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James Riggle-Johnson
Michael, thank you for posting this.
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Daniel Gray
actually they have not this so called evidence has not been peer reviewed and as such its not worth the paper it is printed on
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Michael Hunt
How do you know if this has been peer reviewed or not?
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Ellen B. Wentzel
I don't know what you mean, "but it a choice." Not a choice? Conversion therapy is totally archaic and should be made a felony. You may have misinterpreted one of my comments. Homosexuality and all other forms of it is not a choice.
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Daniel Gray
sorry but it has been proved that it is by the conditions the child is subject to and these studies are peer reviewed so they cannot be refuted.
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Michael Hunt
Could you please provide those studies? I'd be really interested in reading them.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Ahhh, Greh further proving what Forrest’s Mama said.
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James Trenton Smith
This is false. This notion that people are born "Gay" or "In the wrong body". This is a complete lie from the enemy. Homosexuality is a sin unto death. Pretending to transition from a man to a woman does not absolve a person from this sin. People cannot "transition". Most importantly, God the Father did not participate in this iniquity. Our Lord and Savior did not "make" any of us this way. He made us perfect and in his image. To make the false claim that God made a person Gay is to blame God the Father for the Sin. To make the claim that one is transitioning to male or female is to defy the will of God and his creation on such a fundamental level that it is tantamount to Blasphemy.
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Cyril R. VanKeirsbelk
Our current understanding of the science contradicts what you are saying about gender and sexuality. What's more likely, hundreds of scientists are wrong, or some translator with a cultural bias mistranslated the scripture? The whole not lie with a man as you would with a woman thing is not lie with a boy as you would with a woman in other languages. Cultural differences from that time would obligate straight males to comply with their master's wishes. This could have been intended to prevent that from happening. This is from Leviticus. We have the New Covenant now. We don't need Leviticus to tell us what is right and wrong, with Jesus in our heart we know what is right for us. This doesn't mean we get to judge others when what is right for them in their relationship with God. If you have hate in your heart, that's not Jesus.
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James Trenton Smith
Science...really...? The Lord Said that if you Love your brother, you WILL tell him the truth. There is no way to pin the sinful choices of man on God. To do so is blasphemy. And, to tell a brother this truth is not "judgmental" hate...it is actually what we are required to do. We are not to judge for the purposes of condemnation, but we are taught to judge for the purposes of discernment. Many times, the condemnation that is felt is actually completely within the sinner and is thankful evidence that the Holy Spirit is still at work in such a person's life...and is also evidence that they have yet to be turned over to a reprobate mind. The new Covenant does not condone or make allowances for this sin. The Lord did not come to end the Law but to fulfill it. We are still grafted into the perfectly cultivated Olive tree and the Lord is the same today as yesterday. Interpretations and the legalese of words is irrelevant. Gods Law is written on our hearts. Love is not merely feeling...the Bible teaches us that it is a choice...
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Michael Hunt
Really. Science! You know, our best understanding of the world as we know it.
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James Trenton Smith
"Science" has failed and lied to us repeatedly. It is wise to shelve all "New" science for a few years. They have an agenda...and you know it.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
You are really in the dark and I hope some day you will open your mind.
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James Trenton Smith
Am I in the dark? What am I in the dark about sister?
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Brother, the thinking that homosexuality is a choice and a sin. It's not a sin, only small-minded people make it one. Conversion therapy is a "sin," as innocent people are tortured physically and mentally by people who live in the dark ages and have no minds of their own to find the truth. The truth is right there if only those offended would open their eyes and ears.
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James Trenton Smith
The Word of God is clear. If I am small-minded, then you are thick-necked. Romans Chapter 1 even goes so far as to say that they are inventors of new evil. I still love them brother... that is why I tell them and you the truth.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie,and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
She is right, there's tons of research out showing that being LGBTQ+ is genetic, not a "sin". It's simply how a person is born.
You can quote bible verses all day, but your book, which was written by HUMANS btw, doesn't overrule what tons of research has proven. You just hate the sciences because it contradicts your religious bigotry.
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James Trenton Smith
The Lord God has condemned Homosexuality as sin. Do you really need me to quote to verse? I know that you know that it is there. I know that you wish it was not true. The fact that it is sin is beyond debate. Therefore, there can be no "science" that contradicts the word of God. It is not bigotry to tell this truth. To tell you this truth is to actually show Love, for the word teaches us that if we Love our brother, we will tell him the truth. What do you show when you contradict the word of God with a message of acceptance of this sin: "Pride"?
If you do not agree with the word, and it is a faulty book written by man, why do you call yourself Christian?
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James Trenton Smith
There is NO gay gene. There is no genetic markers that can be identified as "gay"...none.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
First, James, I was never Christian. Never was as a matter of fact. I was born and raised ROMAN CATHOLIC until I broke away from the church when I was 15. I'm very much pagan, Shamanic Tradition.
Second, No your "god" has never said that. HUMANS wrote that into their books out of hate and there's only ONE line in there about it. Read "Sermon in the mount", though I know you won't. There's TONS of passages about loving and caring for people, and accepting them for WHO THEY ARE, no matter what.
Third. Yeah, it's BIGOTRY to hate someone for who the are. It's the same as hating someone for their skin color, or hating someone due to what country they come from. It's not "truth" at all. It's hate and bigotry, nothing more, nothing less. Something your bible specifically tells you not to do, but you do it anyway.
Fourth, it is not a single gene but a series of genetic markers in the human genome and yeah, there are tons of them. In fact the research on this is quite extensive. In fact, I've added the URLs to the research papers including the metadata research that PROVES this. There is research going back several decades that proves this, but again, I know, again, you will never acknowledge it because hatred won't let you. Btw, hatred is a LEARNED thing. People are taught to hate, they are not born hating someone for who they are.
Being LGBTQ+ at all levels is very much genetic. I will add, once again, the research to it. But I know full well that you won't look at it. You are incapable of it. The cognitive dissonance it causes you is too uncomfortable for you to accept.
Being Gay is GENETIC, not "A choice."
The diversity of Gene expression including sexual orientation.
https://www.diversityresources.com/exploring-the-connection-between-genetics-and-sexual-orientation/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3sGFGHGo-L0O3zs-STJStzBOpx3YZWSd5KYhFsYjIa9WvAcrwQjkaPVWI_aem_AQjUwBCy3g-aYQHGoQnNjUyfI4eIFD9HOmGR4wkl9-fd7ZhkBCcDWIVit38mHv7QYxd9YbvU8PAZ2C3gK7lFExcB
Gender variants are extremely common and seen most often in individuals who are bisexual or intersex aka Trans.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adj6958
There are multiple human genders beyond just born male or born female, but in fact genetics proves that gender dimorphism is more common than people may think. Though it is not always fully expressed, that is to say, the indivudals hormonal reactions via same sex or opposite sex attractions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10483070/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1Qk_0R2WNqc90IpZwk74Z5_S0C3Ac9EoQBBgBdaugpabpsF62BdprZYYQ_aem_AQh-RkFUFBlspSHCDLYSVLpaFVmAzxcOKGcrf5IqT2IAJfNmqrCANq1vnNMGlRrpNzSsqIsMeT0x-V-DuvE1Taic
How genetics plays a vital role in gender dimorphism in the human, that is to say, for an individual to be Intersex or, in layman's terms, "Trans".
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13293-023-00515-w
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James Trenton Smith
Why do you even call yourself a Christian when you believe that Gods word is "...written by man..."? And, if you believe that science and "...tons of research..." can overrule 6000+ years of Gods teaching, what is the point in believing at all? Why do you call yourself a Christian when you call Gods Will "religious bigotry"?
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Ellen B. Wentzel
A lot of the Bible is myth and made to keep people in fear and controlled. For example, King Henry VIII had some of the Bible rewritten to suit his needs.
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James Trenton Smith
Then King James came and done even more in 1611. However, Gods Law is written on our hearts and Jesus sent the Holy Spirit. We do have all that we need. There is NO "Gay" gene. There are no genetic markers that are identified as Gay....none
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Michael Hunt
Please read some of the research that has found a number of different genes affect a person's sexuality. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat7693
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Being Gay is GENETIC, not "A choice."
The diversity of Gene expression including sexual orientation.
https://www.diversityresources.com/exploring-the-connection-between-genetics-and-sexual-orientation/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3sGFGHGo-L0O3zs-STJStzBOpx3YZWSd5KYhFsYjIa9WvAcrwQjkaPVWI_aem_AQjUwBCy3g-aYQHGoQnNjUyfI4eIFD9HOmGR4wkl9-fd7ZhkBCcDWIVit38mHv7QYxd9YbvU8PAZ2C3gK7lFExcB
Gender variants are extremely common and seen most often in individuals who are bisexual or intersex aka Trans.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adj6958
There are multiple human genders beyond just born male or born female, but in fact genetics proves that gender dimorphism is more common than people may think. Though it is not always fully expressed, that is to say, the indivudals hormonal reactions via same sex or opposite sex attractions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10483070/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1Qk_0R2WNqc90IpZwk74Z5_S0C3Ac9EoQBBgBdaugpabpsF62BdprZYYQ_aem_AQh-RkFUFBlspSHCDLYSVLpaFVmAzxcOKGcrf5IqT2IAJfNmqrCANq1vnNMGlRrpNzSsqIsMeT0x-V-DuvE1Taic
How genetics plays a vital role in gender dimorphism in the human, that is to say, for an individual to be Intersex or, in layman's terms, "Trans".
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13293-023-00515-w
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Ellen B. Wentzel
The topic is one that is not intelligent if you know that people are born the way they are. This is an archaic idea. Gender, sexual orientation have to do with the combination of chromosomes and nothing else. It is not a choice, just as skin color is not a choice.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I bet Michael Jackson and Al Jolson wouldn't agree with that, Ellen.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
You might want to bring your knowledge into this century.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
That does not make any sense. Michael Jackson had a dermatologic condition and Al Jolson used black face. Why are you bringing them into this?
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Comment removed by user.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Pick a side? This idea of forcing religious beliefs on minors, in fact anyone, has fallen on ‘not my side’ for well over 50 years.
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James Trenton Smith
It possible that we could see a significant increase in the demand for Millstones in the near future....
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Minister Tim
As a trans man who grew up at a time you didn’t talk about such things, I have to say, some of you disappoint me. Lawrence always disappoints me but that’s beside the point. I went through a lot of mental hell until I finally started my transition in the fall of 2007. Even then it wasn’t easy, especially living in the Deep South at the time (I moved out west in 2009). I was in my late 40s when I was able to lave my most defining surgeries. It’s been 9 years this month since my last surgery. I have no regrets, I’m very comfortable and confident these days and honestly can say that transitioning saved my life. Yes, we are real and the so-called devil didn’t make me do it. I am a pagan, a practicing witch. I find it offensive when others try to force their beliefs on me and believe laws should be written according to their beliefs and to hell with mine. Sadly it’s the Christians in this country who are guilty of it more than any others. We do exist, we are real so please stop talking about us as if we are fake or the devil (who doesn’t exist) forced us. As a ULC minister I respect all beliefs or non beliefs. It’s sad to see so many here don’t. No one belief is the “one true” one. Some of you need to open your minds and your hearts. There’s no hope for Lawrence but maybe some of you can do some soul searching and realize we are all children of the same universe.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Oh, Tim, I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine how reading some of these comments must make you feel. To be honest, when I was a young gay man 40 years ago, I didn’t understand how someone could feel they were born in the wrong body. But then it hit me—I didn’t have the capacity to fully understand, because it wasn’t happening to me.
That’s when I realized I was making the same mistake others made about me. Who was I to question someone else’s lived experience or existence? I knew, down to the bottom of my soul, that I was gay. Why wouldn’t it be the same for someone else?
Why are people so insistent that the LGBTQ+ community conform to their way of life? We’re not harming anyone. We’re not trying to change straight people. And despite what some believe, we’re not trying to change their children. We just want to live in peace, without shame, without abuse, and without fear. No one should have to grow up hating themselves for simply being who they are. They also forget we are NOT all Christian either. Thank you for sharing your experience. I really appreciate it.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Minister Tim. You should speak out publicly, doing videos, speaking to the press, getting people to know who you are. Because these hate-filled individuals are trying to ram through these laws in almost every state and it's getting to the point that being LGBTQ+ is dangerous in some areas because they're actually condoning violence against our community.
I, too, am pagan, a practicing witch of the shamanic tradition. I'm also bisexual. Though I've noticed they seem to snarl and throw hate more towards men such as yourself than women like me. Transitioning or not. And it's actually frightening.
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Stewart Newall
Look can’t we all turn the clocks back where everybody at least tried to get on and stop this stupidity there are only too sexes that male and female I’m a sexual man but still man lesbian women are still women children don’t need to be taught about this. Either happens to them or it doesn’t. They can turn gay. They are not born gay let peace go around the world again.
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Michael Hunt
People are absolutely born gay or straight. Why would someone choose to be discriminated against in our society? If our sexuality is a choice, you must have felt an attraction to men at some point but you then decided that you were straight. At what age did you "turn" straight?
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Lawrence Pearce
Unproven hypothesis. There is no genetic test that proves your fallacious theory is there? No more than falsely claiming that some people are born to be killers while others are born to be saints. No genetic tests for that false claim. Get a real science education and try again.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Oh, Larry. There you go again. People are born gay; not even you can turn someone gay, lesbian or hermaphrodite. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it untrue. I suggest you google some studies and reassess your assumptions. Have a nice day.
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Daniel Gray
Ok Paula, then prove it with validated documented evidence. I wont hold my breath waiting
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
You want documented proof that people are BORN LGBTQ+? Ask and ye shall receive.
Being Gay is GENETIC, not "A choice."
The diversity of Gene expression including sexual orientation.
https://www.diversityresources.com/exploring-the-connection-between-genetics-and-sexual-orientation/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3sGFGHGo-L0O3zs-STJStzBOpx3YZWSd5KYhFsYjIa9WvAcrwQjkaPVWI_aem_AQjUwBCy3g-aYQHGoQnNjUyfI4eIFD9HOmGR4wkl9-fd7ZhkBCcDWIVit38mHv7QYxd9YbvU8PAZ2C3gK7lFExcB
Gender variants are extremely common and seen most often in individuals who are bisexual or intersex aka Trans.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adj6958
There are multiple human genders beyond just born male or born female, but in fact genetics proves that gender dimorphism is more common than people may think. Though it is not always fully expressed, that is to say, the indivudals hormonal reactions via same sex or opposite sex attractions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10483070/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1Qk_0R2WNqc90IpZwk74Z5_S0C3Ac9EoQBBgBdaugpabpsF62BdprZYYQ_aem_AQh-RkFUFBlspSHCDLYSVLpaFVmAzxcOKGcrf5IqT2IAJfNmqrCANq1vnNMGlRrpNzSsqIsMeT0x-V-DuvE1Taic
How genetics plays a vital role in gender dimorphism in the human, that is to say, for an individual to be Intersex or, in layman's terms, "Trans".
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13293-023-00515-w
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Daniel Gray
yea right, and all of your so called sources have not had any of their claims Peer reviewed and tested. So they are about as factual as a bucket of warm spit.
Nice try but major fail
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Ellen B. Wentzel
It has been proven. You might want to read some of my post on it and open your mind that you might be wrong.
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Daniel Gray
Nope sorry it has not been proven. Even the AMA as well as all leading psychologists say the same thing, there is no medical proof that you were born this way no matter how you wish it were otherwise
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Yep, it has been proven. The information is out there for all to read.
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Michael Hunt
I think the person who needs to get a science education is you since, hey, here's a scientific study done that found multiple genes contribute to a person's sexuality. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat7693
Sexuality is absolutely connected to genetics. Real scientists have proven this. The reason there is no one genetic test is because sexuality is biologically complex, not just a simple blue eyes/brown eyes gene.
Come back with peer reviewed scientific evidence next time instead of vitriol and lies.
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Daniel Gray
and you need to go back and re read your source as it clearly states that its a combination of your home life and association with others, there is no evidence that you are born that way in any form
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Michael Hunt
This is literally the first line: "Twin studies and other analyses of inheritance of sexual orientation in humans has indicated that same-sex sexual behavior has a genetic component."
Here's the conclusion: "Same-sex sexual behavior is influenced by not one or a few genes but many."
Respectfully, you're the one who needs to re-read my source.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Yes, there is evidence. Geez...All you have to do is check online. Very simple. I just don't understand the lack of wanting to learn the truth.
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Cyril R. VanKeirsbelk
Lawrence, it's a supported hypothesis. Your diatribe about genetics is a nice strawman, but not relevant to the conversation Epigenetics determines how the genes are expressed and determine many factors of human development. Environmental factors during the development of the child in the womb change how the child will behave or appear after being born.
It's a lot more complicated than you understand it to be. Go back and learn more about the subject instead of assuming others know less than you do.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Being LGBTQ+ Is 100% genetic, he's right.
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James Trenton Smith
No, persons are absolutely not born Gay. The bible calls these unnatural lusts. There is no natural attraction between man and man or woman and woman according to the word of God.
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Michael Hunt
Well scientific study has proved that it is natural, so you've either misinterpreted the Bible or the Bible is wrong.
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James Trenton Smith
No, scientific study has absolutely NOT proven that this is a natural state. As a matter of fact, it proves otherwise. There is no natural state between man/man and woman/woman. Science does not prove anything to the effect.
The Bible absolutely calls this an unnatural state and an unnatural lust.
Let us explore the Bible being wrong then...there is no misinterpretation. It is there clear and plain as day for well over 2000 years. You know it. Preachers know it. Do you Michael Hunt proclaim the Bible to be false or wrong on this issue?
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Michael Hunt
Yes, I do proclaim the Bible to be wrong on this issue, much like it is wrong about the age of the Earth. Here's a scientific study that found a link between a number of different genes and one's sexuality: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat7693
What studies have you found that proves me wrong?
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James Trenton Smith
So, Michael Hunt proclaims the Bible to be wrong on the issue of Homosexuality. Meaning that the Bible contradicts HIS opinion. He has many studies to prove this, just click the link folks and see the well formulated arguments for yourselves. I put forth that this is not so much about truth as it is about the Powers, Principalities, and Dark Forces wanting us to proclaim with our mouths that Good is Evil and that Evil is Good...just like the word said "they" would do...
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James Riggle-Johnson
The word “Homosexual” did not appear in the bible until 1946. It has not been there for 2000 years. It was added right here in the United States.
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Michael Hunt
It might be my opinion, but that opinion is informed by scientific research and expert testimony. Your opinion is informed by blind faith.
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James Trenton Smith
If people are born "Gay" then YOU attribute Homosexuality of the hand and will of God...
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Michael Hunt
I mean essentially, yes. I don't believe in the Christian God so I don't really attribute it to him so much as I attribute it to the complexities that exist within the human physiology.
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James Mounts
Can someone please translate the posts from Ty Ford, Michael Hunt, and Stewart Newall into ENGLISH?
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Michael Hunt
They're all in English for me. Sure, Stewart could use some more punctuation in his comment, but it's still in English.
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Lionheart
I totally agree with you, Sir Stewart. There are only two sexes, some females like to dress up as men, and some men like to dress up as women and both like to act out those roles. Back in the day they were called transvestites, but somehow that seems to have got lost in translation over the years.
We are part of the biped homo-erectus animal kingdom, which has evolved over millions of years. Our ancestral primates still only have two sexes, and by the way, do not have to undergo male genital mutilation of circumcision. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I saw two male dogs having sex on a street corner once. They seemed really happy, and proud of themselves.
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Lawrence Pearce
True, although DNA science shows we are a very different species than the apes, orangutans and monkeys. We can test any human body whether alive or thousands of years old and the DNA test will tell only one of two results... is the person born male or female? There is no trans gene, no third gender in the science of human DNA.
Trans people were diagnosed with gender dysphoria until surgeons who perform castration of children decided to cash in on the gender dysphoria trend and violate the Nuremberg Codes, opening themselves up for arrests, indictments and years behind prison bars for abusing children.
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Michael Hunt
German scientists were beginning to study transgender identity very early in the 20th century including developing and performing gender affirming surgeries by 1930. Then the Nazis came along and burned all of the studies and began exterminating transgender people and homosexuals along with Jews, Roma, Soviet, and Polish citizens, those people whom Hitler deemed “lives unworthy of living.”
In short, gender-affirming care was not created as a cash grab by surgeons.
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Daniel Gray
yea and these are the same people that also studied the fact (according to them) that they were the master race of the world and all others were sub human. These the same ones you want to try and quote from their studies?
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Michael Hunt
No, they were not the same people, Daniel. Per my previous comment, the Nazis burned all of the studies and then attempted to exterminate transgender persons in Germany.
The Germans who were studying transgender people were viewed as enemies to the Nazis. The Nazis tried to erase their research, they were not the ones doing the research.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I've heard that Hitler was also a closet queen.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
1) No one is performing gender reassignment surgery on children. It is 100% illegal in the United States.
2) Being LGBTQ+ (Yes that includes being Trans) is 100% genetic and there are TONS of research papers proving that. Both genetic research and neurological research has proven that it is biological.
3) It has nothing to do with upbringing. A person can be brought up in a household where their family is LGBTQ+ and be hetro. Or they can be brought up in a religious family that believes only in 2 genders and be transgendered. Again, this is a proven fact.
Your FEELINGS, nor your religious views, overrule scientifically proven facts.
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Angelic Realms
Mutilating children is a human rights violation. A crime against humanity. Hitler did this stuff to children.
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Lawrence Pearce
Dr Josef Mengele did it to children. It's why the Nuremberg Codes were written and enforced after WW2. Any adult who knowingly castrates, mutilates and causes permanent damages to a child is a criminal felon and subject to arrest, imprisonment and prison sentence or dp as a violator of human rights and the Nuremberg Codes.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I think Hitler just liked little penises, and had a large collection of them. There's a good chance that he was the reincarnation of Michelangelo Bonarotti. And we know what he thought about little penises. Just look at what he did to King David.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
I wish everyone would be educated on this. It is a matter of the combination of chromosomes a person is born with, not choice, just as skin color. This is so sad that this is not accepted everywhere. Everyone is different and no two are alike.
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Lawrence Pearce
There is no evidence that any combination of chromosomes can predict or diagnose anyone as trans. If there was, we would be able to find genetic testing kits for parents and doctors. Yet there are zero - nada tests for trans.
Get a real education in genetic science and leave the delusions to the mental health patients. Thank you.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
I find you very disrespectful. I suggest you look online where you can find any information about this before you show your vast knowledge of the subject. Look up 5-alpha reductase deficiency, Swyer syndrome, and X-linked adrenal hypoplasia congenita, just to name a few. You will be embarrassed by your replies.
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Lawrence Pearce
Okay I'm calling your bluff. Tell me the name of the fake "transgender blood test" that can tell any doctor or parent that their child was born with gender dysphoria.
Until then, I don't believe a word you say when it's not supported by any scientific evidence. Truth always wins. Delusions are dangerous to your mental and physical health.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
You don't have to believe me. I have never heard of a "transgender blood test," either. Maybe you can enlighten me.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
While he's at it maybe he'll invent an ADHD blood test, too, or an autism blood test. Then he can cure cancer as an afterthought and we'll all be happy.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
LOL!
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Michael Hunt
I would be hesitant to demand others get an education in genetic science when you clearly have not had one either.
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Lawrence Pearce
I have a background in medical research. I've read more medical journals and studied nearly every medical research company and biolab listed on all stock exchanges.
If you have evidence of any scientific "tranny blood test" that will tell doctors and parents that the child was born with a "tranny gene" then produce your evidence. Until then, you're blowing smoke while living in a delusion.
I'll wait...
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Ellen B. Wentzel
I doubt you have any experience in medical research, or else you would know of what I tell you. You refuse to acknowledge that you don't know. You might want to open your mind to "real" research. Who is talking about "tranny blood test" other than you.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
The very idea that someone who is actually knowledgeable about any of this would use the word "tranny" is an unfunny joke. Best not to give him the time of day--he is trolling.
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El Gringo
As I read all these silly arguments back and forth, I have to laugh. My simple feeling is so simple, but I wish everyone would start off explaining their attractions. I have always felt attractions for women and not at all for men.
I have spoken to a few people who were attracted to both sexes or to opposite sexes. I have no attraction at all for the same sex so I can understand that people who have this same sex attraction have a genetic difference. People don't choose which sex attracts them. They are just attracted. It is not because they are bad people. They were born that way.
Before people should write to express their opinion on this they should explain which sex attracts them.Men do not attract me but it is not because I am so moral. I was just born that way.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Major medical associations worldwide rightly oppose conversion therapy because it is ineffective and harmful. The foundational ethic of medical professionals is to "do no harm." While adults should be free to make their own choices, they must be informed about the potential negative consequences of conversion therapy.
Minors, however, should be protected from undergoing a process that has proven harmful without any evidence of success. Attempts to convince someone to change their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual have consistently failed. If the reverse were attempted—trying to convert heterosexuals to homosexuality—societal outrage would be immediate.
I can speak from personal experience: I have always been aware of my identity as a gay person, and I have witnessed the devastating effects of conversion therapy on others. For many, it led to feelings of shame, worthlessness, and lifelong emotional scars.
The decision to limit or ban conversion therapy should not fall to the Supreme Court, whose understanding of medical evidence is lacking. Instead, we should heed the recommendations of respected medical associations, not those driven solely by religious beliefs. It's time to prioritize the well-being of individuals over misguided ideologies.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
I totally agree with you. Thank you for sharing your story.
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John Ekers
Yes. Than you
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Michael Howard Schrader
Conversion therapy for minors should be treated as child abuse. Puberty blockers, etc. for minors should also be treated as child abuse. Both are equally bad. Once a person has reached the age of majority, let he or she decide for him or herself without interference.
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Michael Hunt
So force them to go through puberty as a different gender and then forever have physical traits of that gender even though that's exactly what they are trying to prevent?
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Nobody who is against this will listen to that argument. They don't care, and they don't want to know the truth about the condition; that's why they refuse to listen to medical experts. They are convinced they are right just because this gives them the heebie-jeebies, so they just do not care if anyone is caused suffering as long as it relieves their mild social discomfort.
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Dwanda Denese Scott
Because one does not agree does not mean they are not listening. This may be an over simplification: I want to be a bird in flight. I ache to be a bird. I feel so strange in this human body. I even like being around birds because i feel like that is where I belong. I go to the doctor and i get wings sewed on my back. I eat all the things birds eat even rocks to help digest the food I consume. I get feathers glued to my body. I purchase the equipment that allows me to fly. Am i a bird? I believe I am a human being who wants to be a bird. I also say that is ok. Should all of our society change and say i am a bird? Should i now only have the rights that birds have? I do not believe a man has the right to be considered a girl or a woman because that is not their experience. The same goes for women who want to be men. Being a female is more that genitalia reconstruction more than wearing makeup and high heel shoes. It is even more than having sexual intercourse with another person. We have the right to pretend to be anything we want. However the truth sets us free. At different times in fetal development we have no genitalia; then we have both. Then in most people genetics pick a side. Nothing can change that. How one feels is how one feels. How one thinks is how one thinks. But are who and what we are. If you are a man who whats to be a woman no matter what you do you will always be a man who wants to be a woman. Not a woman. You will never truly have a female experience. That is also true for a woman wishing to be a man. All that being said I believe we should embrace diversity and differences and love all that God created for us to take care for and enjoy. We should care and enjoy the thing that are hard for us to understand and things we take for granted. Maybe we should stop judging and just accept that which does no harm. Parents should teach children to love and accept who they are. Your genitalia does not define who you as a person or child of God. I have worked with children for several decades. I know through out childhood we want to be many things. Adults should be adults and not give in to a child whims. A child’s sexuality is not the same as an adult’s. Please stop trying to make little adults out of children. Most of what they say should be and stay on a child’s level. My son pretended to be a dog. So should i have feed him dog food and allowed him to take a crap in public? I didn’t focus on his whim one way or another. He got to play like he was a dog. I didn’t make a big deal of it. After a few months he wanted to be superman. You support your child in being a good & kind people. The rest is for entertainment purposes only. Conversion therapy is a way for greedy industrialists to make money off you and your child. Hormone therapy is a way for greedy industrialists to make money off of your and your child. I apologize for the long over simplistic argument but sometimes i beg most times things are very simple. And truth is very simple and easy. We all at one time feel an attraction to the same sex. I use sexual loosely. At one time we all have thought about what is would be like to be another gender color height weight or just different. Thats why we have cosmetics and plastic surgery; that is why we travel to different places. God gave humans the ability to choose.
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Michael Howard Schrader
They are too young to know what they really want. It is the same reason we don't legally allow children to get married or have sexual relations. These are life-altering events.
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Amber Holcomb Raxter
Ellen, stop engaging with ignorance. Lawrence isn't interested in having a productive conversation that based on science. Much respect for your efforts, but he thinks he's the smartest person in the room. He's not which is why his arguments only get more ridiculous and comical.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Yes, I realize. I wish all would just read a bit and know the truth. They must pray to St. Upid.
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Paul Johnson
More LOVE exposed.
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James Trenton Smith
Is this the proper forum to have a discussion based upon "Science" ... or ... is this a proper forum to have a conversation based upon Gods Word?
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Michael Hunt
Why not both? There are more religious practices than just Christianity and some believe in following science.
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James Trenton Smith
Comment removed by user.
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George M Davis
Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common.
Dorothy Parker
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Paul Johnson
Tell that to God.
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El Gringo
read my previous posts. Gays don't choose to be gay. They are born that way.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I have. I pleaded with God to take it away, but the answer never came. For years, I lived in shame and fear, believing I had been forsaken. But in time, I realized that I am exactly who I was meant to be. The ones truly going against God were not me, but those who used His name to spread hate—those who claimed I deserved death and were willing to act on it. When I let go of their judgment, I found peace. And I have never looked back.
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Danielle Elizabeth Ostach
The role of a counselor is to help the patient. Not impose their beliefs on them. They can ask questions, make suggestions to help person look into themselves, suggest ideas for self improvement, they can not force change or impose their religion on others. Any Counselor that engages in Conversion therapy to force issue should lose their license and be blocked from the field. That said, if person is uncomfortable about a same sex attraction or gender dysphoria, there is nothing wrong with exploring issues to see if it not true situation but rather a different issue causing it (like abuse causing fear or something).
Every person's right to religion is for themselves, they have no right to force religion on others. Your right to proslytize does not exist in a trusted role as doctor or therapist and does not allow you to force belief on others.
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Kevin Joseph Kervick
This is correct and balanced.
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Blake Andrew Tallman
as someone who is gay man which i am i cant tell u that conversion therapy is sick sadistic and twisted and anyone who supports it is sick and twistsed cause u cant change who someone likes the straight people who r doing it r wrong all because they want people to not be themselves and only pop out when we dont need to do that the people r free to be themselves no ifs no ands or buts so to those who like conversion therapy know this u guys need to have ur heads examined and maybe we need to try it on u guys and see how u straight people like ok so quit trying to change people they r born as they r the universe made them as they r
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
For those determined to comment that there is "No evidence to prove that being LGBTQ+ is genetic" here are the URLs of the research papers showing otherwise.
Being Gay is GENETIC, not "A choice."
The diversity of Gene expression including sexual orientation.
https://www.diversityresources.com/exploring-the-connection-between-genetics-and-sexual-orientation/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3sGFGHGo-L0O3zs-STJStzBOpx3YZWSd5KYhFsYjIa9WvAcrwQjkaPVWI_aem_AQjUwBCy3g-aYQHGoQnNjUyfI4eIFD9HOmGR4wkl9-fd7ZhkBCcDWIVit38mHv7QYxd9YbvU8PAZ2C3gK7lFExcB
Gender variants are extremely common and seen most often in individuals who are bisexual or intersex aka Trans.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adj6958
There are multiple human genders beyond just born male or born female, but in fact genetics proves that gender dimorphism is more common than people may think. Though it is not always fully expressed, that is to say, the indivudals hormonal reactions via same sex or opposite sex attractions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10483070/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1Qk_0R2WNqc90IpZwk74Z5_S0C3Ac9EoQBBgBdaugpabpsF62BdprZYYQ_aem_AQh-RkFUFBlspSHCDLYSVLpaFVmAzxcOKGcrf5IqT2IAJfNmqrCANq1vnNMGlRrpNzSsqIsMeT0x-V-DuvE1Taic
How genetics plays a vital role in gender dimorphism in the human, that is to say, for an individual to be Intersex or, in layman's terms, "Trans".
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13293-023-00515-w
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Rev Samantha Counihan
transition isnt harmful for minor transgenders, not being able to transition for transgenders are harmful, christian or not, bigotry and hate shouldnt be part of the "law" and theyre "banning" it because of politic crap
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Daniel Todd Kamm
"And that's why 'I' work in mental health" was intended.
Peace Out and don't fear the authoritarians' presumed "clout."
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Daniel Todd Kamm
And in response to a private... Yes, I believe g-d makes mistakes... all the time...which is why we do....
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Lawrence Pearce
Did you come to that conclusion after looking in the mirror? It still does not give any authority the right to castrate a child or give the child toxic chemicals. The law clearly states that only the parents of underage children can make permanent decisions regarding the minds and bodies of their children for counseling and surgeries.
The child must wait until the legal age of 18 before authorizing castration of his or her genitals, otherwise the physicians and psychiatrists are committing crimes against children and violators the Nuremberg Codes enacted after WW2 to prevent the abuse and torture of children.
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Michael Hunt
Wow. Was it necessary to attack Daniel here at all? They're not talking about transgender persons at all yet you're quick to call him a mistake and lecture him about your ignorant, uneducated views on the transgender community.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Friends, it's fine if a reader wants to"critique," though obviously there is a misunderstanding of the many, expressions of Judaism and so, it seems a criticism and perhaps a challenge to defend, however:
I adhere to my own tradition. I am secular and humanist; I do not endorse any myths, beliefs or practices beyond tzedakah (charity) tikkun olam ( healing to the earth) yahrzeit (remembering those we have lost) and shabbos, (Sabbath.)
I love history, paleontology, anthropology, archaeology, sociology, and the psychological sciences associated with my actual profession.
Subsequently, I enjoy, but do not believe or establish as fact, ancient stories, certain artifacts, or the interpretations of evolving scientific endeavors: though I am always fascinated when old Jewish stories coincide with stories from non- Jewish sources: peoples they lived side by side with, peacefully or not. Validation, by friends or foes is still some validation.
But that does not validate or establish a spiritual truth or a basis for religious practice.
Jewish peoples are not a monolith. We are highly diverse ethnically and culturally, we have many beliefs and traditions, social and political structures, and we have the same needs and goals for our individual selves, our families, our diverse communities and how we see ourselves as Jews as anyone else.
To "critique" is an art; agree or disagree on educated "guesses" at best, educated "beliefs" less so. But "criticism" shows disdain. To criticize one makes assumptions. And I am sure that we all know, at least culturally, that when we "assume" we make an "ass"out of "u" and "me."
Have a blessed and positive whatever you choose to have.
tk
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
A person's sexuality is no one's business, unless you're talking pedophiles. It's time to stay out of people's bedrooms
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Please educate yourselves. It is not a choice, nor in the mind. Look it all up: It's scientific fact that humans come in two varieties - XX for female and XY for male. EXCEPT: 1. You can be born appearing female, but have a 5-alpha reductase deficiency and grow a penis at age 12. Medically, this condition is known as “5-alpha reductase deficiency. 2. You can be born legally male with an X and a Y chromosome, but your body is insensitive to androgens, and you appear female. Androgen insensitivity syndrome is a condition that affects sexual development before birth and during puberty. 3. You can be born legally male with an X and a Y chromosome, and have a penis and testes, and a uterus and fallopian tubes. This another form of androgen insensitivity syndrome. 4. You can be born legally male with an X and a Y chromosome, but your Y chromosome is missing the SRY gene, which gives you a female body. This is a condition known as Swyer syndrome. 5. You can be born legally female with two X chromosomes, but one of the Xs has an SRY gene, which gives you a male body. This another form of Swyer syndrome. 6. You can be born legally female with two X chromosomes - and also a Y chromosome, which gives you a male body. This child would be "intersex", another form of Swyer syndrome. 7. You can be born legally female with two X chromosomes, but your adrenal gland doesn't produce enough cortisol, and your body develops as a male. This is a condition known as X-linked adrenal hypoplasia congenita and affects the development of the adrenal glands. 8. You can be born with XX chromosomes -and XY chromosomes (chimerism).
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Lawrence Pearce
How many ULC ministers in this forum will agree that abusing, castrating and mutilating children is absolutely wrong and should be punished? Upvote if you agree.
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Kevin W Titus
I am not a person with answers on this subject, other than Homosexuality, is a Sin in the Bible, period. I donot undrerstand why Gods Churches condone it either? We of the Faith, must stay within Our Lords words .No human is born that way, sorry. you are born what God assigned you, nothing more,
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Can you prove where it says that in the Bible?
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James Trenton Smith
Yes...multiple places. Do you really want to see?
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Jeanne Caruso
You don’t need religion to be a good person. Child abuse by any name is still child abuse. Allow people to be who they were born to be.
Offer constructive help. Love your children for who they are and not what certain societies want them to be. A parent’s job is to be strong and teach their children to be good human beings. It’s that simple.
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Rebecca L Tice
OK... Ban this Ban that and Ban the other. Ban Abortion... Ban Daycare for those who didn't keep their knees together. Ban onions before taking communion, to save the preacher from your breath. Ban Vacines.... God is all you need. Ban Maskes... You've got God.
Now they had to ban conversion therapy. Should I have conversion therapy because I was born with long legs and freckles?
No? You say those things are in the DNA.... yeah I use to preach that... but let me tell you.... Gay is in the genetics too!
I'm a good Baptist. I made a Confession of Faith and was dunked in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, when I was twelve.
When I was 19 I married a man who was funny and talented. And then I came home from work one day and found him in our bed with another man. So.... the day the astranauts first landed on the moon... I started drinking scotch and asking myself what I did wrong.
The church didn't want to talk about it. Divorce was not an option. I wasn't shown the book of Jude until after I had three kids with this man. I asked my parents to raise my son... I did not want his gay father to ruin him. My mom and dad agreed as long as I stayed away and kept my mouth shut. I did... and now my son has been told I never wanted him... He has five kids now. My daughters are both straight. Two of my grandchildren [by one of the girls] are gay. They didn't plan it... they didn't even think about it until one day they just realized they are.
It's genetic. You can't pray it away.... you can't beat it away. It's genetic... and I have learned this the hard way...
There's something in the Book of Revelation... a secret... and my guess it is that Jesus doesn't hate gay people. Some are gay by birth... some by choice. Jesus love all humans who believe.
Preachers... if you abuse those who come to you.... you are doing wrong....
There should be no conversion therapy... but the government should have no part in banning anything like this.
Jesus loves us.... not everyone is going to love Him back... but He is going to love you anyway.
Stop being so petty.... feed and heal... The last command Jesus gave His disciples after the Last Supper and before the Arrest was "Love One Another". When did everyone forget that????
https://forums.somd.com/threads/yall-take-care-of-each-other-hear.409355/
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Rev Ned
Why are “Christo-Fascists” so terrified of LGBTQ+ people? It baffles me. Are they really that fragile?
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Paul Johnson
Demonic forces don't care what side your on just as long as they are winning,.
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Rebecca L Tice
I use to be one... it's what we are taught. There are bullet points....
This, I think is the new "Little Black Sambo" debate.
It's not evil... it's just not the way to grow the population.
God said be fruitful and multiply... and this is not conducive to multiplication.
Remember though, there were Eunuchs that were in charge of the women in waiting for kings and pharaoh's. Women had to wait a year to make sure they were not already "with child" before getting to meet the king. It was the Eunuchs who insured that took place.
It's taught
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James Trenton Smith
Christians are not afraid of LGB-whatever. Christians are afraid FOR you and are required by the Lord to warn you or suffer judgement. In the end it is still your choice brother...
Ezekiel 33:6-8 King James Version 6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
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JT Sunrise
Love, Truth, and the Healing We Need
The Supreme Court has taken up a case that has reignited a firestorm—conversion therapy, free speech, and the boundaries of faith and law. The debate rages, and in its wake, I hear voices trembling with pain, with anger, with uncertainty.
I hear the ones who have been told they must change to be loved. I hear the ones who fear their faith is slipping from their grasp. I hear the ones who just want to do what is right but are lost in the noise.
And so I say this, with all the conviction in my heart: The truth of existence is love. Not judgment, not fear, not coercion—love. And where love is absent, we must question what we have built.
The Harm of Erasure
Conversion therapy—no matter how it is framed, no matter what language is used to soften it—begins with a premise that something about a person is fundamentally wrong. It tells a child that who they are is a sickness, a burden, something to be corrected. And what do we know of the fruits of this belief? Depression. Isolation. Despair. Some never find their way back.
This is not the work of God. This is not the work of healing.
Scripture tells us, “By their fruits, you will know them.” So I ask: What are the fruits of love? Joy. Peace. Belonging. The knowledge that you are seen and held in the light of grace. If a practice bears only suffering, if it drives children into the shadows instead of into the arms of love, then it is not of God—it is of fear. And fear has no place in the house of love.
Free Speech, Faith, and the Responsibility of Care
Yes, free speech is sacred. Yes, faith should never be silenced. But let us not mistake freedom for license, nor faith for harm. A counselor’s role is to heal, not to impose. A shepherd’s duty is to guide, not to break the spirit of the lamb. If faith is to mean anything, it must be a place where people can lay their burdens down—not where more are heaped upon them.
If we are to build something better, we must build with truth. Not with legal battles over who has the right to shame whom. Not with fear disguised as righteousness. But with an unwavering commitment to love as Christ loved—without condition, without restraint, without agenda.
A Better Path Forward
So where do we go from here? How do we heal?
We start by listening. Not with ears poised to argue, but with hearts open to understanding.
We start by asking: Does this path lead to more love? Does it lead to more peace? Does it make space for all people to breathe freely, to exist fully?
We start by rejecting the lie that love and faith are at war. They never were.
To those who have been wounded by the hands of those who claimed to love you: That was not love. That was not God. You are whole. You are beloved. You are not beyond the reach of grace.
To those who fear this battle will tear faith apart: True faith has never been afraid of truth. True faith expands, embraces, evolves. Love is not lost—it is waiting for us to catch up.
And to all who feel weary, all who feel lost in this storm: There is light ahead. There is more love in this world than fear. And that love has already claimed you.
Rev JTSunrise
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June Whalen Gonzalez
Please do not subject our children to these brainwashing therapies!
Many of those who undergo conversion therapy later go on to commit suicide!
Stop judging.
Accept the person inside the shell.
Again, I don't think the great creator makes mistakes. It is not up to us to judge .
As a footnote....you might consider - When you look at the statics.....most crimes committed against women and children are by heterosexual men.
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Michael Hunt
Actually, gender-affirming care is shown to lower the rates of suicide in transgender persons.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Yep, and June's talking about the cruelty known as "Conversion Therapy" aka "Pray the Gay Away" camps where LGBTQ+ are .. well the cruelty there is easily looked up. :-(
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El Gringo
Thank you minister Tim and Blake Tallman. You are adding more information to this debate based on knowledge instead of ignorant bigotry. I previously posted a self-test that few people read or understood or replied to. The test seems so simple to me, but individual prejudices keep people from honest evaluation. The simple test is this: Imagine yourself in a group of 5 beautiful same sex and 5 ugly opposite sex and which group would be attractive to you. I am heterosexual so the same sex doesn't attract me. I would be attracted to the ugly opposite sex. I wish people would think about and give themselves this simple test. I am very curious to hear the results. How many people are attracted to the attractive same sex as opposed to the ugly opposite sex? The only answer was from someone who missed my point and ended up supporting it. Basically, the response was "why should I like another man etc." That was my point most people don't have same sex desires and homosexuals have some form of attraction that is the way they were born. Take my test. Do you have feelings for same sex or opposite sex or maybe both? Are thos feelings because you are good or bad or because of the way you were born?
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Brad Rierson
I am solidly heterosexual, but i grew up in the gay community, Some of the things the other side is tossing out, can have a grain of truth to it. Like all things, there are those that try, those that become addicted, those who dabble (not talking about Bi)
so their statements are sort of true, they just don't give the rest of the back story. twisting the narrative to their political viewpoint. Most of the GLBTQ+ community go to work, raise their kids, go out to dinner and all the normal things that heterosexuals do, if they are "sinning" behind closed doors, thats between them and god.
I'm pretty sure that Jesus fellow told his disciples "love god, love your neighbor" So, while a number of so called Christians engage in hate, they are showing they aren't following the teachings.
I'm pretty sure god frowns on trying to steal his job.(divine judgement) or hating his creations. But what do I know?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
100% True.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
For me, it's pretty easy. I find myself deeply attracted to both sexes.
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El Gringo
I appreciate your reply. As I have described myself, I am only attracted to women. I have male friends, but it is not a sexual or physical attraction. I will be interested in hearing what others say. I know one woman who married and loved a man and later loved and married a woman, so I do see some people who have feelings both ways. Each person can have different feelings. I have mine and you have yours. Thank you for sharing.
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El Gringo
I appreciate your comment. I hope to hear more from you. We can all learn more. I am
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
People tend to frown upon the bisexual and pansexual because they believe we're "promiscuous" and that we are also unfaithful to our loved ones. That's the furthest from the truth. We're just like anyone else. We just find that we have no "gender preference" we love both sides.
Then there are those who are equally mistreated, those who are A-Sexual. That is, they do not find any physical attraction in that way toward anyone. They're often called cold, heartless, or even called liars saying they're just "hiding it."
Though "hiding" what is unknown.
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El Gringo
Thank you for your additional information. I see so many people. Your attraction is interesting. In the past I have thought the attraction would have had a preference for one sex or the other. People who fail to understand what attraction is think everyone has same kind of feeling or attraction. I am attracted to women but others are different.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Did you all know that this day happens every year to raise awareness? It is on March 31. transstudent.org/tdov
International Transgender Day of Visibility (often referred to as TDOV or Trans Day of Visibility) is an annual event occurring every March 31 since 2009 dedicated to celebrating transgender people and raising awareness of discrimination faced by transgender people worldwide, as well as a celebration of their contributions to society. wikipedia.org
Please open your minds to the reality.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
I know of that. Sadly, in many states, it's damn near a crime, now, to be transgender. Give them time, and it WILL be a crime to be LGTBQ+. Because "god told them so" :-(
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Yes, God would not punish people for being who they are. He loves everyone. Also, God does not make mistakes. Everything is exactly as it is supposed to be. The people against learn, hopefully, the lessons they are supposed to learn, as are those who are discriminated against.
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Mary Haviland
This is only an issue since this is christians. If this was being so e by any other group of people in this country. This wouldn't be an issues. This is another form of war in Christians. The lbgtq xyz community have been brainwashing kids for decades and that's ok with your stupid idiots. The Muslims have been brainwashing their kids for centuries and that's okay with you freaks. And the atheist and satanists have also been brainwashing. Their kids. But the christians can't, and they can't take back their kids who has been brainwashed. This is very biased.
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Michael Hunt
But Christians aren't brainwashing their children into believing that a book of fairy tales is the ultimate truth and only means of "salvation," whatever that might mean? Pot, meet Kettle.
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Lawrence Pearce
Science agrees with Genesis 1.1 "In the beginning (scientists admit there was a beginning of the universe), Elohim Gods (aka Intelligent Designers) created the heavens (galaxies) and the earth.
In that one bible verse we find the beginnings of TIME, INTELLIGENT LIFE, ENERGY, CREATION OF ENERGY AND MATERIALS... ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS FOR LIFE IN THIS UNIVERSE!
Yes, there are scientific facts hidden within the bible, especially Genesis, Job and Isaiah. "The earth is a sphere" and "the earth is suspended in space" and "there are currents in the winds and oceans of earth." All written long before humans about those scientific facts. The man who wrote those words was educated in Egypt by the Pharaohs, so the original claims found in Genesis One must have originated with the Egyptians, who may have been in direct contact with superior beings. All evidence points to their advanced wisdom and technologies.
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Michael Hunt
Science does not agree with Genesis 1.1 because the overwhelming majority of scientists dismiss the theory of Intelligent Design.
Also, I have yet to find a non-Christian, non-creationist article or analysis of your claims regarding "scientific facts hidden in the Bible". I did, however, find an analysis written by a professor at Berea College in Kentucky that disagrees with the claims of scientific facts located in the Bible. https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2001/PSCF9-01Schneider.html
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Robert Gagnon
Parents have a right to raise their children how they see fit. The term conversion therapy should relate the same way to current believers in sex changes. They are both different beliefs and both believe they are right. Major difference is you can not help what sex you are attracted to, no matter how much someone else may encourage or dislike personal desires. To physically or chemically alter anyone's body to function other than original design is causing damage. People damage themselves all the time with tattoos and piercings. Cosmetic surgery to fix an irregularity like cleft palate etc. is improving functionality and appearance. Encouraging sex changes, puberty blockers and other unnecessary procedures is a harmful form of conversion therapy which is self evident. Why outlaw one and not the other?
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Michael Hunt
Gender-affirming care, or sex changes as you call them, have long been shown to improve the mental health and livelihoods of those who receive the treatment. https://sph.washington.edu/news-events/sph-blog/benefits-gender-affirming-care
Humans typically have 46 chromosomes divided into 23 pairs, not just X or Y chromosomes. The 23rd pair is labeled "X" and "Y" and referred to as the sex chromosomes. There are also a number of known chromosome abnormalities that can occur which may lead to, for example, Turner Syndrome where a person only has one X sex chromosome instead of two, or XXX Syndrome, where a female has a third X chromosome, which occurs in about 1 in 1000 females, or Klinefelter Syndrome, where men have an extra X chromosome.
https://www.genome.gov/about-genomics/fact-sheets/Chromosome-Abnormalities-Fact-Sheet https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21751-genetic-disorders
You're also conflating sex and gender to mean the same thing when they are very different. Sex has to do with your biological and physical characteristics while gender is referring to self-representation influenced by social, cultural, and personal experience. That's why there are typically two sexes, not including the rare cases of intersex persons, but many more genders. The way we express ourselves in society exists on a spectrum, not a binary.
https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/what-do-we-mean-by-sex-and-gender/
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Robert Gagnon
You can find studies that prove or disprove the results you speak of. Then again giving anybody a certain thing they want will always improve their mental condition. Genetics may result in tendencies but no one is a slave to their genetic make up as far as attractions. So the born that way theory is childish thinking. How anyone damages themselves is how they represent. Gender is not fluid, just how people view the world and themselves on the spectrum between male and female are. There were always feminine guys and boyish girls that had no interest in same sex relations that were perfectly happy with their born sex.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
"Born that way" is not a theory. I would hope that you read the information I have posted.
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Robert Gagnon
Did read it and understood the confusion these physical characteristics can cause in the defining of male and female. Sex identification should refer to functionality since these organs are primarily there for reproduction. Best way to clear this up would list Male, Female or N/A. Just mark one or multiple boxes for the exceptions. As for gender, there is only male or female and what is societies expectations of each. Responsible parents teach this. Those who deny the difference are not properly preparing their kids for the world they will live in. Everyone wants to make exceptions for their kids rather than explain reality of mixing water and oil.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
The brain controls the reproductive system. That's medical fact. Brain structure differences exist between males and females and nonbinary people. That's also medical fact. Sex organs do not control this. The brain and sex organs develop at different times, independently. While hormones can affect how well a brain functions, they cannot change that function. The fact that function improves in transgender people who are taking the correct hormone for their brain is well proven. If they were trying to change to something they weren't, it would not save their lives and make them function better, it would have the opposite effect. Like many medical conditions, a patient's response to the medicine given to them can be proof of diagnosis, and this is one of those cases where it is.
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Robert Gagnon
In the mean time the physical detrimental effects are ignored. Gender affirming care is a white washed word that equates to chemical and surgical sterilization. Lets cut off some body parts and have a party for the happiness it brings the delusional. If you are an adult that's fine to do what you want to yourself. Children are not adults and as you mentioned their brain hasn't fully developed into anything stable enough to treat responsibly without causing unknown damage. Long term effects have not been analyzed competently. Happiness does not mean cured.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
How would you then explain a person who is born with both a womb and testes?
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Robert Gagnon
Birth defect, uncommon, abnormal, exception, not average..list goes on. Same way you describe someone with three nipples, extra testicle, spinal bifida. None of this makes anyone less of a person, just physically different. Even the very physically challenged can have a brilliant mind completely independent of their challenges. When normal healthy with no abnormalities people get a self destructive idea it's better to help them than encourage unhealthy behavior.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
How many "normal healthy with no abnormalties people get a self-destructive idea" do you know? The ones who are destrictive to themselves are mentally ill. Again, there are those who are born with the chromosomal differences and want and need help that need support, too, mental and physical help.
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Robert Gagnon
Know plenty of them. I don't encourage alcoholism, drug use, or self emulation either.
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Lawrence Pearce
So now you claim that when the British courts sentenced Alan Turing to take chemical castration drugs after he was caught molesting a teenage boy, that was a GOOD thing for his mental health? LOL
You just contradicted everything the lbgts have been yelling about for the past 60 years! If it wasn't for hypocrisy, the lbgts wouldn't have any standards or morals, would they?
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Michael Hunt
Will you ever have a discussion in good faith here? I won't hold my breath.
Alan Turing did not receive gender-affirming care, he was chemically castrated. Gender-affirming care is not chemical castration.
You can twist words all you want but it will never make you right.
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Lawrence Pearce
True. Parents are held responsible if their child finds a loaded gun and then uses it to shoot itself or anyone else, so they have a few other responsibilities to protect their children and prevent traumas.
So parents and teachers are responsible for instructing children on the science of genetics and that is there are only two chromosomes X and Y and there are only two human genders Male and Female. Anything other than scientific facts are illusions and delusions. Parents and teachers only responsibility for teaching children about sexual activity is to call 911 if anyone touches their genitals.
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Steven Ferrell
It seems to be fine when some is counseling in sin and yet to counsel away from sin is wrong. If a counselor can promote the sin, then other counselors should have the right to speak against it and show a better way of life.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Speak and show, sure. Psychologically torture kids until they break is not speaking or showing, it's torture. People are not idly calling it torture, that's not meant to be an insult or an exaggeration just because someone doesn't believe the same thing. Children are literally tortured in conversion camp. No amount of speaking about something or modeling a lifestyle equals torture. That's not what anyone is asking to ban.
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James Trenton Smith
This notion that people are born "Gay" or "In the wrong body" is false. This is a complete lie from the enemy. Homosexuality is a sin unto death. Pretending to transition from a man to a woman does not absolve a person from this sin. People cannot "transition". Most importantly, God the Father did not participate in this iniquity. Our Lord and Savior did not "make" any of us this way. He made us perfect and in his image. To make the false claim that God made a person Gay is to blame God the Father for the Sin. To make the claim that one is transitioning to male or female is to defy the will of God and his creation on such a fundamental level that it is tantamount to Blasphemy.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
To make the claim that a way that God made someone is sinful is to deny God's ominscience. To make the claim that a medical condition that has been researched for decades doesn't exist just because you don't think God would do that is blasphemous; there are children born with organs outside their body, born blind, born missing limbs, born with brain abnormalities, born with both sets of reproductive organs, and none of those are mistakes either. They are tests of faith, and tests of compassion and care, and people are failing this one bigtime. God does not think humans equal their genitals in worth, it is their hearts and souls that make someone worthy, and he knows who people are inside. You do not. You cannot. You are not God. You cannot read minds or hearts, you can only know your own. I suggest you try to do that, because you are speaking without any sort of compassion or love.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Well said, Ari.
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James Trenton Smith
To be clear we are not talking about people who have medical conditions. But, no matter how you slice or dice it Brother Bertine and Brother Johnson. Homosexuality is a sin, condemned by the word. The desire to surgically transition one's genders is not a medical condition requiring treatment. It is an indulgence, desired by the recipient, who made the willful choice to permanently mutilate their bodies to appear male or female. Persons who participate in this process alongside children, below the legal age, should face prison sentences. Truth is the only language I speak brother....it will set you free or make you angry. But to say that men are born Gay is to say that it is not a choice and that God the Father had a hand in the creation of this iniquity. This is simply not true. I am being good to you by telling you this truth....even though I know the church is all but doomed because of all the lies and iniquity that it has allowed itself to tolerate, enjoy, and apparently now ... even pursue. So, to teach others that this sin is ok is to hate your brother.
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Michael Hunt
It's a good thing that there have been a number of scientific studies that have proved that sexuality is not a choice and is instead influenced by a number of different genes. You are not telling us the truth, you are telling us your "truth" which you've based upon a book that's a few thousand years old and was written by men. That same "truth" got Galileo put to death by the church for committing blasphemy when he determined that our solar system revolves around the Sun and not around the Earth, a hypothesis that we now know to be true.
No one chooses to be homosexual or transgender; they are simply born that way.
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James Trenton Smith
Gods Truth Michael Hunt. He goes so far as to identify this as a lie and those involved as inventors of new evils. But, I still Love them and you. I pray that you will repent. But, Gods word is clear and plain.
Romans Chapter 1 - King James Version
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
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James Trenton Smith
Furthermore, Daniel knew that the Earth was round, and that we revolved around the sun. It was evil men...not the Church...who condemned people for socio-political matters.
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Michael Hunt
No, Daniel said no such thing. In fact, people point to Daniel 4:10-11 as evidence the Bible is suggesting the world is flat.
10 These are the visions I saw while lying in bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous.
11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth.
If the earth were flat, a sufficiently tall tree would be visible to “the earth's farthest bounds,” but this is impossible on a spherical earth.
And it was the Roman Catholic Church who condemned Galileo to house arrest where he would stay until he died about 9 years later. I was incorrect in my previous comment when I stated the Church put him to death. I was getting him mixed up with Giordano Bruno who was burned at the stake in Rome for coming up with similar conclusions in 1600 by the Catholic Inquisition.
You can claim that the men running the Catholic Church were evil men, but they were the ones running the Church and acting at the Church.
You also claim that the Bible is the word of God and therefore the truth. Neither of us were there to witness the events in the Bible so we don't have an eyewitness account of what happened. In truth, the Bible is the supposed word of God according to those who wrote it, but we have to take it on faith that they were telling us the truth. Is it not equally possible that the Bible was written at the direction of Satan posing as God as a means of corrupting God's people?
You can claim all you want that you are being good to a person for giving them the "truth" but in reality you have no way of knowing for certain that it is the truth.
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James Trenton Smith
People used those scriptures to make those false claims about flat earth...not Daniel. He is the reason that the Han Dynasty sent the wise men from the East. Daniel provided the knowledge in Babylon that later led them to the knowledge that a "King of the Jews" had been born...for we seen his Star. Daniel knew the truth concerning the Firmament, Stars, and the Earth.
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James Trenton Smith
Why do you even call yourself a Christian if you do not believe the Word of God?
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Michael Hunt
When did I call myself a Christian?
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James Trenton Smith
Why do you even call yourself a Christian if you do not believe the Word of God?
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El Gringo
This may sound silly, but it might make sense to some readers. My simple explanation is that if you put me in a room with several really sexy good-looking men and several ugly women, I will feel an attraction for the women and not for the men because I do not have gay feelings. I am happily married so I won't make a move for the women but sometimes I have to remind myself that I am married and don't try to do anything towards the women no matter how attractive they are. I never have that desire about men. Think about it. Do you react the same to both sexes. Maybe this can help you understand that gay attractions are something that are natural for some people. I am not a better person because I am not attracted to gays. I was born that way, and they were born that way. But that is using common sense rather than just reacting. I can sympathise with gays and their reactions.
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Paul Johnson
Sometime I wonder if we all are reading from the same book. Why would I want to be hooked up with another man how in the hell will you ever reproduce. So if you can't it must be contrary to God's way. Have I missed something in the word that he enjoyed people doing their own thing instead of what He has called us to do. Be fruitful and multiply.
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El Gringo
you are missing the whole point! I am not attracted either! Obviously there is a reason that some people are attracted to same sex As I said, I think they are born that way. reread the point I was making. You say contrary to Gods way. We are all God's creatures. Your reaction is verifying what I said. Gays are attracted to others when most of us aren't. It is something biological.
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El Gringo
I wish you would reread my comment. You are missing the point. Non gay people are not attracted to same sex. Gays have a natural attraction to same sex. Attraction has nothing to do with morals. Attraction is a normal reaction that people have towards other people. What you do with that attraction is another story. Question. Are you attracted towards women?
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James Riggle-Johnson
Who wrote Genesis? Do you believe God physically wrote it? The Bible, including Genesis, was written by men—not by God’s own hand. According to Scripture, the only thing God is said to have written Himself is the Ten Commandments, inscribed on stone tablets (Exodus 31:18). The rest was recorded by people interpreting their experiences and beliefs over centuries. Even the New Testament wasn’t written by Jesus—it was written by His followers.
So, when we discuss what is or isn’t 'God’s way,' we have to acknowledge that human interpretation has always played a role in shaping these texts. If being 'fruitful and multiplying' were the only measure of righteousness, then by that logic, those who are infertile, single, or choose not to have children would also be 'contrary to God’s way.' But we know that God’s love and purpose for us go beyond reproduction. Jesus taught love, justice, and compassion—none of which depend on one's ability to have children.
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James Trenton Smith
El Gringo, the word of God says that Gay feelings are unnatural lusts. It is sin. It must be resisted like drunkenness/drug abuse, whore-mongering, fornication/adultery, violence, greed, gluttony and the like. Different people are plagued by different evils at different times in their lives. The only standard that we have to truly go by is God's Word.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
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James Riggle-Johnson
James, the idea that being gay is evil or vile didn’t come from God—it came from men. Men who claimed to speak for God, who decided what was “holy” and what wasn’t. It was men who determined which books made it into the Bible, leaving out others. The Bible carries their fingerprints, their biases, and their desire for control—just as some people today use religion to maintain power and manipulate others.
The truth is, the Bible was written by men, not by God. And in my view, if God were to speak on this matter, I believe He would call us to respect one another, to do no harm, and to care for each other with love and compassion. That’s just my belief—God isn’t whispering in my ear or handing me a manuscript to distribute. But if we truly seek what is just and good, shouldn’t love and kindness be at the heart of it?
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James Trenton Smith
You make very seductive argument. However, it amounts to far more that simply turning a blind eye.
You are actually going so far as to formulate an argument that you use to convince Gods Children to accept this sin as normal, refer to it as "natural", attribute the hand of GOD as having created it, rejoice in it as Gods creation, and call it "Pride".
This is what you are doing my brother...there has been judgement reserved for this very thing...we have been commanded to avoid this. It is sin brother and if you do not believe the Word of God...why do you call yourself a Christian?
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James Riggle-Johnson
I am a skeptical Christian. Don’t get me wrong—I believe in God. But what I don’t believe without proof is a book written by men. Too many people are quick to judge me for who I love, calling me a deviant or even saying I should be stoned. Yet the very book they cling to tells them that only God will judge. Hmm.
I think it’s more likely that people like them wrote the Bible—men who condemned others while committing the same sins they claim will damn us to hell. We see it today: a priest entrusted with the souls of a congregation betrays that trust by molesting a child. Then the Church covers it up, quietly moving him elsewhere to offend again. And it’s not just Catholics—it happens across denominations.
I’m at peace with who I am. If I am to be judged for loving and showing kindness, so be it. Judgment is God’s alone. I have a feeling we’ll all be in for a surprise when we pass and find things are nothing like we expected.
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William Tomasso
I think that a person who was born a woman or man should not change who they are. I believe its disrespectful to God and the parents who gave birth to them. I also believe that those who have children need to teach them that who they are is ok. This is my opinion that children should accept who they are and not encourage them to change.
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Paul Johnson
Pretty simple wouldn't you agree?
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Daniel Todd Kamm
I have been working in mental health in many roles, for over 35 years. My profession will not follow the dictates of conversion therapy and I will not follow any aspect of conversion therapy in my practice as it is detrimental and nothing more than discrimination and indoctrination.
The client is the one who determines what the concern is, how they/ their guardian want to handle it, and what their ultimate goal is.
And yes, I work with kids, so sometimes there are differences in views. Many years ago when I worked in an adult mental health setting I had parents who opposed how their adult child identified: they demonized me for supporting him, but, it wasn't my life, was it? And they raised him outside any influence I could have had anyway.
I have always though my client's improvement, and his mother's support changed after his father passed: while we remember and honor our losses while we may count our many blessings.
One of which is self-determination.Supporting self-determination is what I do.
'll bet there are very few supposedly religious who could say the same... they express contempt and condemn, offer prayers and prayers for a donation... but essentially they have no guts for a real personal struggle where g-d made a mistake....
And g-d does make mistakes it's called "mutations" "genetic anomalies" whatever. And if g-d made one of g-ds mistakes: I believe it was an intentional mistake: because there is more in heaven and on earth and in the seas...etc....
And you and I just have to deal with it.
I was also gratified today to see that an appeals court unanimously upheld the litigants cases re: trans kids, their parent's rights to determine any treatment needed, and the non-discriminatory use of medications that may be essentialriginally for some people to find relief, etc. here in Ohio.
OHIO FUCKED UP when it passed a very nasty bill last year against transgender folk, that our Republican Governor vetoed, but the right wing Christian Nationalists and other legislative reprobates, especially the ones running for elected office or political appointments, overturned.
Nasty little social climbers!
The courts have spoken. The State Atty General has vowed to fight it because he is running for Governor against a far less and completely mercenary Trump endorsed candidate....
All good and I am going to get a new roof and paint my house this year... because one can only do what one can do, and crazy people, like Donald Trump and his people, will pass away soon enough.
But what they leave for the rest of us to clean up? It will take a long time before the damage can be repaired.
And our kids and grand-kids will be paying the price... oops! Does that sound like the republican argument about the national debt and why they need to slash and burn?
There are worse things to inherit than debt. Fascism is one.
Peace, Out...
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James Riggle-Johnson
Daniel, thank you for your psychological point of view. I’ve been trying to come up with something like this for a bit and couldn’t quite get it right. It is about the patient and helping them. Do No Harm. Isn’t that a guiding principle in providing care?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
"Conversion Therapy" is, in a nutshell, where religious individuals brutally torture an LGBTQ+ person, both mentally and physically, to the point the person absolutely hates themself for being LGBTQ+ They, then, convince the person it's better to be dead than LGBTQ+ and the person becomes severely depressed. To which the religious individuals consider them "cured".
This brutal practice, unfortunately, results in many suicides.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Can’t use it on minors. Can’t force someone to partake as some sort of court required condition.
If it floats your boat, and your 18 or older, knock yourself out.
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Brad Rierson
I think both sides can live in peace. I have long supported GLBTQ+ rights, as a protected class, has right to live life and pursue happiness as they see fit. I don't need science to prove this claim, I only need Belief. If a person truly believes they are living their best life, i think they should be protected from discrimination, using the constitution to restrain the government. The constitution should never be cited to restrain a citizen. So should anyone in the Queer community be forced into conversion therapy? NO.. but...
Christians are entitled to their beliefs, some Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin and against god's law. They believe conversion therapy cures this ailment. so it should be allowed and protected.. BUT only on those homosexual Christians who wish to undergo this type of therapy. Can it be listed as a potential therapy, sure.. patient is allowed to decline, if the therapist pushes.. time to find a new therapist. The patient isnt required to do business with that practitioner.
The days of force need to be over, I don't need to make them believe as i do. Don't force them to bake cakes, provide birth control, or anything else an individual citizen is opposed to doing, for any reason. Use your own faith and inner guidance to see what your opposed to doing. "They" shouldn't be forced to do anything, I am not forced to do business with them. The area will dictate which side stays and who goes.
Each side has a right to exist, each side has a right to compromise or reject the ideas put forth, each side has the right to walk away and do business with someone else.
Dr Antiwolf
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Najah P Tamargo
Najah Tamargo-USA
Kids today have enough to deal with. If they don't feel, or simply can't, talk to their parents, they NEED to be able to talk to somebody! Why not a school counselor? At least a counselor is trained in these matters.
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Lawrence Pearce
A school counselor has no training or education in the sciences of genetics or gender dysphoria. As long as the child is under age 18, their parents are fully responsible for any counseling, castrations or any major surgeries of their children.
When the child turns 18, he or she can legally choose castration if they wish, but the long term evidence shows that genital castrations and mutilations do not improve the mental health of the person who has not accepted they physical body they chose to be born into. Castrating children is a violation of the Nuremberg Codes and physically abusive crimes against children.
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Michael Hunt
Once again, you are making factually inaccurate claims with no evidence, probably because you realize the evidence is not on your side. In reality, gender-affirming care is connected to a higher quality of life and mental health for transpersons. To date, no studies have reported findings that suggest gender-affirming care increases negative mental health outcomes. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10290445/
Meanwhile, conversion therapy has shown zero effectiveness and leads to significantly poorer mental health for those subjected to it. Even those who used to run these clinics have come out and said they do not work.
Why do you call gender-affirming care "physically abusive crimes against children" despite the wealth of research, and plenty of anecdotal evidence, showing that it does improve the lives of those who receive it while also saying it's the parent's choice to subject their child to conversion therapy, which is akin to torture and causes significant harm to the children subjected to it?
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James Trenton Smith
I think you are purposely trying to deceive people on these matters. Puberty Blockers do cause chemical castration on male children who are subjected to this ungodly treatment.
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Michael Hunt
I'm not trying to deceive anyone; I'm trying to provide factual evidence based on scientific study. Puberty blockers do not castrate male children; they can stop the puberty blockers at any time and they'll progress through puberty just the same as if they didn't receive the blockers.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Larry, CHILDREN ARE NOT BEING CASTRATED!
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Lawrence Pearce
Yes they are. Nurses have reported doctors who have chemically and surgically castrated children. Look up "children castrated by surgeons in America" for the evidence!
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James Riggle-Johnson
Larry, I searched as you suggested, and there is nothing! I even had ChatGPT take a shot at it, and again… NOTHING. If you have actual evidence, provide a link—but make sure it’s from a verifiable and credible source. Otherwise, this is just another case of people pushing fear-based misinformation. Laws and executive orders are being passed to ban something that isn’t even happening, which makes no sense.
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James Trenton Smith
Puberty Blockers bring about a chemical castration in boy children who are subjected to these treatments.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Puberty blockers have been in use for more than 40 years to treat early-onset puberty. They are also used safely in gender-affirming care to pause puberty, giving children and families time to make informed decisions. The effects are reversible when the medication is stopped, and they do not cause sterilization or permanent changes.
I suggest you look beyond politically motivated claims from certain physicians and politicians. Instead, check real medical data from credible sources like:
• Mayo Clinic (mayoclinic.org) • American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) (aap.org) • Endocrine Society (endocrine.org) • World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) (wpath.org) • Harvard Medical School (hms.harvard.edu)
Children are not being medically castrated by the temporary use of puberty blockers.
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James Trenton Smith
Some actually are...
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James Trenton Smith
Some actually are...
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Daniel Todd Kamm
As a licensed professional who deals with kids and families and mental health, this is yet another issue that needs to be dealt with and appropriate decisions made among a treatment team that knows what it is doing: a child, a child's family, their MD practitioner, Therapist(s) and Interdisciplinary staff.
While abortion and other medically sensitive issues are paraded about by the "devout" in this case it's a live, fully formed person, a person whose spirit has come to live here, newly or again, but, in the rush to live...? Something might have gone askew.
At least that's my thoughts on the matter.
Maybe the person's spirit, body and mind need some help so the person who came to live with us can live with us as a whole person.
I don't have all the answers. But the people who want to interfere with Trans people's efforts to be whole? Demons with a quick Biblical Reference.
Which, if they were Jewish, would know the Bible is just stories anyway.
Because gods never really "spoke" to anyone but certain people. And that's why work in mental health.
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Lawrence Pearce
Lumping all Jews together is a fallacy. There are Orthodox Jews who despise Zionism, keep the Sabbath day holy and believe every word in the Torah is true.
Get an education about Judaism and then try again.
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Lawrence Pearce
IF we're going to hold all parents responsible for the actions of their children, then it's fair to give the parents the authority to raise their children in the manner they prefer until the child is a legal adult at age 18.
A child cannot legally decide to have anyone cut off his or her genitals or poison them with toxic chemicals or make permanent changes to their bodies. This has always been the law. If parents want to hire counselors for their under age children, then that's their right in America. What their child does the day they turn 18 is the childs personal decision and the parents are free from all legal responsibilities for their adult children. End of story.
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Michael Hunt
So would parents have the authority to beat their children for being left hand dominant if that's the manner in which they choose to raise their children or should they be stopped from harming their children? There's no genetic test we can do to know if a person is left or right hand dominant so that's just made up, too?
Why are treatments proven to improve the lives of patients "violations of the Nuremberg Code" yet a treatment shown to have serious negative effects on children with no efficacy is fine for a parent to subject their child to? Transgender children who receive gender-affirming care are willing participants in the procedure while many queer children who are sent to conversion therapy are not willing participants. That actually appears to go against the Nuremberg Code:
"1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion, and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment.
"The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity."
Also the Nuremberg Codes outline how medical experimentation should be conducted in order to “satisfy moral, ethical, and legal concepts.” Gender-affirming care is not an experiment; it's a well studied treatment plan created thanks to decades of research. https://research.unc.edu/human-research-ethics/resources/ccm3_019064/
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Lawrence Pearce
Legal fact... a child under age 18 is NOT able to give informed consent to any medical procedure that would cause permanent damage to the child. This would include castrations via surgery or chemicals.
Strange how the LBGTS raised a stink when they learned Alan Turing as an adult was required to take chemicals for castration after he was found guilty of molesting a teenager, and yet now the LBGTS approve of giving the very same toxic chemicals to castrate CHILDREN! If it was wrong for Turing, then it is 100 times worse for innocent children, isn't it? At least be consistent in your condemnation against the abuse of children.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Larry,
1) Chemical castration is NOT part of gender affirming care.
2) Alan Turing never molested a minor. His 1952 conviction was for "gross indecency" related to a sexual relationship with another man, not child abuse. The man was 19 years old. Homosexuality was illegal back then, and they thought he was a pervert. We are upset because of how he was treated for being gay. Especially after his contributions to science and ending the war by cracking the German Enigma code.
3) You seem very obsessed with the child molestation thing, and it appears you’re implying that LGBTQ people are pedophiles. That idea went out with Anita Bryant. Come live in the 21st century.
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Michael Hunt
Well, actually there are a number of states that allow minors to give informed consent to medical procedures. Regardless, I don't see anywhere where I stated that children under 18 can give informed consent without their parents' permission. Pediatricians are generally concerned with the minor's assent or dissent of the procedure. https://schoolhouseconnection.org/article/state-laws-on-minor-consent-for-routine-medical-care https://www.oncolink.org/cancers/pediatric/resources/informed-consent-in-pediatric-patients
I think James covered the rest of your nonsense pretty well already.
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
I think think is a great topic for discussion. I agree that conversion therapy should be a right to choose at any age.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
With all due respect, conversion therapy is not a right to choose sort of thing. It is a way to try to stop someone from being who they really are and is total abuse to anyone. I doubt that anyone would choose it for themselves, only those involved who don't understand what it really is and want to try to change someone who does not hold the same beliefs, who know they are by birth.
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Daniel Gray
And want to bet how much you are going to howl and show fake outrage when the SCOTUS UPHOLDS the ban on this?
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arawngraalrd
In principal, the First Amendment protects Conversion Therapy, but the Thirteenth Amendment protects the right of the patient to refuse any treatment. In practical terms, anyone advertising Conversion Therapy is likely a Fraud intending to Torture Children into Submission. A.S.Neil boasted a set of graduates free of Homosexuality, so it might be curable.
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Paul Johnson
What would be wrong with just being parents and teaching our children what is right and what is wrong, Children don't need to be GROOMED to think that something guided by the devil is alright. Nothing but sick little puppies!
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Walter J. Holbrook
This is indoctrination by law enforcement. Programing people who are different.
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Paul Johnson
This not programing people who are different, It is programing children to be what some sick people would like to call okay.
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Paul Johnson
This not programing people who are different, It is programing children to be what some sick people would like to call okay.
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Frederick Goslin
God has already determined that there are only two genders. Male and female. There are no others. That being God's design, renders lgbq what ever moot, wrong in the eyes of the God Almighty.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Only in the minds of those whose hearts are filled with hatred. Being LGBTQ+ is genetic and, since in your view, "God" made everyone, then being LGBTQ+ is also made by your god. As it is a GENETIC TRAIT to be such. Being Trans is as natural as being born Cis.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
That is in the minds of men.
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Lionheart
…..and women. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Don't take that literally. It means all humans.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
OH, PEOPLE, Use your ears and eyes. Jeremiah 5:21 ESV “Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes, but see not, who have ears, but hear not."
Mark 4:9 ESV helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful And he said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
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Kevin Joseph Kervick
All Conversion Therapy laws should be repealed because they are anti-client choice. Reparative Therapy, a more accurate and appropriate term for sexuality change therapies, works and is humane. It may be required for some people that are caught up in lives filled with sexual addiction emanating from adolescent sexual abuse. Most Conversion Therapy laws go too far to discourage even questioning sexuality or doing watchful waiting. These ideologically/politically-driven laws has lead to the affirmation therapy malpractice nightmare that has consumed the psychotherapy field.
Homosexuality is a temporary stage for many, and an addictive compulsion for some. It can be cured for some people that reject their same sex attraction and want to get better. We allowed the homosexuality political movement to bully a noble profession.
I believe this case may fail and is not really the issue because this is a clinical not a Christian issue. Controlled opposition forces get in the way.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Being homosexual is not a "addictive compulsion" and it's not "temporary". And conversion therapies are not "Reparative Therapy" . It is brutality in its highest form. Being LGBTQ+ is not due to sexual addiction, nor is it due to "adolescent sexual abuse".
A person is born LGBTQ+ It is not a "phase".. A person is, or they are not, it's that simple. And being homosexual is not a "Political movement" either. And it's not "bullying" any "noble professions" either. You see, Conversion therapy is, and you apparently only read the headline and not the article, where Christian / Catholic, so-called "Therapists" with use of both severe physical and psychological abuse, force the LGBTQ+ person to state that they are "Straight / CIS". And they will keep brutally working on the person until the person absolutely HATES themselves for being LGBTQ+.
Those who go through such abusive "therapies" end up with massive psychological, and often also physical, trauma and many end up suffering severe depression, and even suicide.
Accepting a person for who they are, instead of trying to ostracize them for it, is the only way to ensure this doesn't happen. I say ALL laws BANNING the practice should be in place and any laws enforcing the practice should be removed.
Affirmation therapy, that is to say, aiding an individual in accepting who they are, no matter their sexual orientation, even if they are a Trans individual, and helping them see that they are not bad individuals, they are not "confused", they are just who they are meant to be, saves lives and doesn't lead to malpractice suits.
Those that practice "Conversion Therapies" are the ones that lead to severe malpractice suits, as well as many wrongful death lawsuits.
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Michael Hunt
Call it conversion therapy or reparative therapy, it still does not change a person's sexual attractions. There is no empirical evidence to support any efficacy of conversion therapy. There is, however, lots of empirical evidence to suggest that this "therapy" actually causes significant harm.
Gender-affirming care, on the other hand, has been shown to lower the rates of suicide and depression in transgender people.
You refer to people wanting to change their attractions as wanting to get better, as though homosexuality was a disease or illness. The reality is that these people do not need to "get better", they just need acceptance of who they are.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
You're right Michael. Gender affirming care is far more apt to save lives.
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James Trenton Smith
If genitals do not define gender, even in part; how does removing them affirm it?
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The article states that "LGBTQ+ rights activists have long argued that conversion therapy, especially for minors, is tantamount to torture, and can have incredibly harmful results for LGBTQ+ youth."
The truth is that it isn't just "LGBTQ+ rights activists." All leading professional medical and mental health associations reject “conversion therapy” as a legitimate medical treatment. This includes the the American Psychiatric Association, the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, the American College of Physicians, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychoanalytic Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American School Counselor Association, the American School Health Association, the World Psychiatric Association and the Pan American Health Organization.
Conversion therapy does not work. According to a recent U.K. government review of roughly four dozen relevant studies, “there is no robust evidence that conversion therapy can change sexual orientation or gender identity.” Likewise, a 2009 American Psychological Association survey of peer-reviewed journal articles dating back to 1960 found that “enduring change to an individual’s sexual orientation is uncommon” and that “compelling evidence of decreased same-sex sexual behavior and of engagement in sexual behavior with the other sex was rare.” A more recent Cornell University investigation concluded that “most accounts of such change are akin to instances of ‘faith healing.’”
So, "conversion therapy" is considered torture, dramatically increases suicide risk, and doesn't work. Oh... and Jesus never said a single word about homosexuality.
Faith healing is a very real thing that is tested and proven to work in 30 to 35 percent of cases. Medical doctors have two or three different names for their own faith healing... words like PLACEBO EFFECT and SPONTANEOUS REMISSION and ITS A MIRACLE are three of the phrases that doctors are known to use to perfectly describe faith healing!!
The more you know, the more intelligent you will be on these matters.
And nobody should trust so called peer reviewed articles written by criminal surgeons for surgeons, when their castration crimes against children are known to be violations of the Nuremberg Codes! They are just as evil as Dr Mengele who carried out surgical experiments on children and adults without their legal permission.
There is no scientific evidence to support the effectiveness of faith healing. It can often be harmful, actually, when it causes people to abandon proven conventional medicine. Placebo effect is not a form of healing; providing a placebo to a cancer patient is not going to get rid of their cancer, nor is there any evidence to suggest prayer from a faith healer would have any effect on the disease.
As far as doctors who provide gender affirming care to transkids, which is what I assume you are talking about, nothing they are doing violates the Nuremberg Codes. The patients receiving gender affirming care are giving their permission to the doctor to perform the procedure. Maybe be more specific as to what part of the Codes you claim they are violating.
It's wild that you compare these doctors to Mengele when Germans had already begun transgender studies as early as 1919 only to have the Nazis burn their research and deem homosexuals and transgender persons as "Lebensunwertes Leben", or lives unworthy of living in the '30s. The Nazis tried to exterminate the transgender community and now the GOP is trying to erase them from existence and deny their validity contrary to a century of scientific study. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/
In other words, you're taking the side of the Nazis.
"Deaths caused by doctors, pharmacists and medical staff are now the FOURTH leading cause of death in America according to a study by Johns Hopkins. An estimated 400,000 Americans are killed every year by medical mistakes."
It's well known that the medical monopoly is far more dangerous and deadly than all faith healers put together! Again, faith healing and placebos are known to cure 30 to 33 percent of those people who trust them, while the doctors BURY their 400,000 mistakes!
Lawrence, the fourth leading cause of Death in the United States is not "Doctors, Pharmacists and Medical Staff.
I have looked up the 10 leading causes of death in the USA - honestly it took less than 2 minutes - and such things are nowhere near. Don't know where you are getting your information, but it's certainly not from John Hopkins University Hospital. Maybe a misinformation blog written by a guy by that name.
LGBTQ issues have to do with the chromosomal combinations a person is born with. Please educate yourselves. This is such an archaic subject.
Show scientific evidence for the so called "chromosomal combinations." There are only X and Y combinations and as genetic scientists admit,
"A fetus with only one Y chromosome and no X chromosome is not viable and cannot survive."
As for any other combination, there is no genetic evidence that can diagnose or reveal gender dysphoria. Remember to follow the Science and not delusions.
It is not for me to prove it to you. Open your mind and educate yourself.
Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me. I imagine you have all the evidence you need in your mind.
It's scientific fact that humans come in two varieties - XX for female and XY for male. EXCEPT: 1. You can be born appearing female, but have a 5-alpha reductase deficiency and grow a penis at age 12. Medically, this condition is known as “5-alpha reductase deficiency. 2. You can be born legally male with an X and a Y chromosome, but your body is insensitive to androgens, and you appear female. Androgen insensitivity syndrome is a condition that affects sexual development before birth and during puberty. 3. You can be born legally male with an X and a Y chromosome, and have a penis and testes, and a uterus and fallopian tubes. This another form of androgen insensitivity syndrome. 4. You can be born legally male with an X and a Y chromosome, but your Y chromosome is missing the SRY gene, which gives you a female body. This is a condition known as Swyer syndrome. 5. You can be born legally female with two X chromosomes, but one of the Xs has an SRY gene, which gives you a male body. This another form of Swyer syndrome. 6. You can be born legally female with two X chromosomes - and also a Y chromosome, which gives you a male body. This child would be "intersex", another form of Swyer syndrome. 7. You can be born legally female with two X chromosomes, but your adrenal gland doesn't produce enough cortisol, and your body develops as a male. This is a condition known as X-linked adrenal hypoplasia congenita and affects the development of the adrenal glands. 8. You can be born with XX chromosomes -and XY chromosomes (chimerism).
That is a very informative and descriptive list of birth defects. Just curious, has anyone ever been born fully functional with both male and female reproductive organs? Syndrome means uncommon condition, meaning the exception or abnormality. The original discussion is about sexual attraction whereas some believe you are born either straight, gay or bi. Some claim it is genetic, and predetermined at birth, as if every thought we will ever have has been scripted. Meaning we have no free will and can not be influenced by anything. Were that true, conversion therapy is a part of many peoples plan to continue that script and should not be interfered with. The obvious conclusion is that in early development the wind happened to blow some folks way or the other and they became the summation of those winds. Born that way is a childish excuse for irresponsible behavior. Lots of people switch teams or get dysphoria later in life, is this all predetermined or just another wind from another direction?
Who says we are not the ones with a birth defect? Please read the evidence that has been out there for a very long time. Thinking otherwise is a total lack of knowledge. Give reading about it a chance.
The normal people are the larger percentage of humans. The anomalies you listed earlier are the folks with birth defects. Or we can look at these defects you listed as genetic illness. You can Often treat an illness with medication or surgery. But these cases are few as compared to the masses. If one person out of a thousand grows a wart on their nose at puberty you treat those people afflicted. You don't cut off everyone's nose that imagine they have a wart. Blanket treatments for healthy people are not the logical answer. Gender-affirming care encourages abnormality, it treats the physically unafflicted. Good mental health requires normal acceptance of self without conditions. It's amazing how the world opens up when people face reality instead of believing and being told their body, planet, and society are all wrong, and only they are right. If you want to carve yourself up and pretend to be something other than you really are then wait for adulthood.
Doesn't make sense.
As has been posted several times on this blog post and others, sexual attraction is influenced by multiple genes and (I suspect) is also influenced by cultural, societal, and personality factors, which can also be genetic. I wasn't born knowing who or why I was going to fall in love (with), but I was born mostly attracted to men (but have an appreciation for some women as well. Sexuality is no more binary than gender (a social construct). Gender is not the same as sex assigned at birth. Gender is the "box" society wants to put people in because of the sex they were assigned at birth. The discussions of intersex/sexual anomolies only clouds the issue rather than answers it. Look at it this way. There are genes for blue and brown eyes, but other factors will change the shade of the blue eyes to varients of green and brown eyes to varients of light brown to almost black. I am blue eyed, but my eye color can change with my mood, so even eye color, which is mostly controlled by one gene is variable due to circumstance. Hair condition and color is a better analogy to the genetics of sexuality, as it is controlled by as five or more genes which give the full range of colors and textures. However things like stress can cause premature graying of the hair and also affect baldness, so there are environmental factors that contribute to what happens to the hair as we age, and the color as a child. Some people are more attracted to the same sex rather than the opposite. Others can be attracted to either. Assume any of these three varients can be equated to blonde, red, or brunette hair colors and you can see how not one genetic test cannot equate to sexual preference any more than I can look at a genetic sample and tell whether you have blonde or brunette hair. The full spectrum of the genetic makeup and what each gene does is not fully known at this point in time. Personally I would prefer scientists spend their research dollars on identifying genes that indicate alzheimers or various forms of cancer or diabetes than worrying about whether my son will prefer to marry a man or a woman (or vice versa).
stop with the obvious bs claims.
IF YOU HAVE A GENETIC TEST TO IDENTIFY TRANS, SELL IT AND MAKE A MILLION DOLLARS!
You dont have it bcuz it doesnt exist! so s h u t tf up.
A genetic test kit is not a prerequisite for having a genetic link. Test kits only work once the gene has been isolated and a test kit can determine if the gene actually exists (if you are looking for a home variety, I can tell you now, they wouldn't exist, as this is something that has to be done in a lab setting).
There has been a lot of research done, primarily where a trangender indiviual has an identical sibling (twin/triplet) and there is enough evidence through these studies to suggest a genetic link. In some cases, it is caused by mutations in certain genes, in other cases the suspect is defects in the glands that produce the sex-related hormones (primarily testosterone, which occurs naturally, but in diferent levels in both biological men and women). The scientific studies I have seen are now behind a secure wall I can't access since I finished my doctorate, so I'm providing you with something that is a reflection of the extensive research I have done on this topic. I suggest you read this link in it's entirety before you make any judgements as the author is now on his twelveth edition of his studies on this topic, and his conclusion has narrowed down the genetic link(s): https://dnascience.plos.org/2017/03/02/is-transgender-identity-inherited/
There is NO Gay gene...no genetic marker for this ... none.
Influenced is not certainty. Not everyone is a lemming. Not everyone is a slave to their lizard brain. Basic morals or taught social behaviors have always regulated to some degree the ability to express independent thoughts and expressions. Their must be a base line for logic. Otherwise humanity is just folly.
Robert, I'm not sure I understand your point. Everyone is a slave to their brains, and what it is telling us we are. Your brain tells you you are a man, mostly because of your hormone makeup and your genitals. What would you do if the signals your brain was sending you was something different? You don't know, because you've never been there. Would you want to be erased from existance or sent through therapies that were akin to pounding a square peg into a round hole (and equated to torture), just because people didn't like it that you wanted to live outside what they perceive to be normal? Who's the lemming now?
Lawrence you’ve already demonstrated that you’re not very intelligent by the archaic ideals you keep parroting.
I agree! LOL
SHOW ME THE GENETIC TEST KIT THAT IDENTIFIES TRANS or Q KIDS. You cannot bcuz it is a delusion and a lie that doesnt exist!
That is not what this post is about. There is no mention of tests that identify LGBTG in this post.--Why would you want to know that? You can have genetics tested, though, for whatever reason, even for sexual deviations. Just for example, the Veterans Administration now has a test of genes to determine how your body responds to different pharmacologicals to help determine how one's body reacts to different medicines to help the doctor prescribe. Just read about it. Shut your mouth and open your eyes and come into the 21st century.
....Neither did his twelve gay apostles. Could they have been trying to hide something? They even left their wives to be with Jesus, and never mentioned having romantic relationships with women again. So, if Jesus was a top, I bet he had a really big one. He probably told them it was manna from Heaven, and there was only one way they could get it.
Now that is something to prove.