We're probably all familiar with the long-running debate over Muslim head coverings in France, Belgium, and other European countries. How do we balance religious freedom with safety, security, and the liberal Western values of a free society? It's a question Europeans have been struggling with for decades.
Now, in the wake of the recent midterm elections, that conversation has begun anew in the United States. Earlier this month, voters elected the first two Muslim women to Congress in the nation's history. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib will head to Washington in January when the 113th Congress convenes for the first time. But this historic demographic inclusion has sparked debate over a 181-year-old (and some say archaic) rule that prevents members of Congress from covering their heads while in the chamber.
Initially implemented to lessen class divides (the rich often wore fancy hates), the rule, as written, states that a member cannot enter the House "with his head covered." This poses an obstacle for Muslim congresswomen who feel obligated to wear a hijab or some other type of headscarf.
Changing of the Guard
Although Tlaib does not wear an Islamic headscarf, Rep.-Elect Omar does. And she's adamant that her right to freedom of religion will not be infringed by any congressional rules:
No one puts a scarf on my head but me. It's my choice one protected by the first amendment.
And this is not the last ban I'm going to work to lift. https://t.co/7U3ZLTaWur
Ilhan Omar (@IlhanMN) November 17, 2018
Other Democratic members were quick to side with her, calling the rule outdated and unnecessary. They have introduced a proposal to amend the rule to include exemptions both on religious grounds and for health reasons.
Can the Rule Be Justified?
Despite this vocal support for changing House members' dress requirements to accommodate religious attire, there remains some opposition to the idea. Opponents argue that the rule while admittedly quite old still serves two important purposes: 1) it ensures that all members are viewed equally in the chamber, and 2) it maintains a distinct separation between church and state.
And beyond those concerns, opponents insist changing the rule could have unintended consequences. If we allow hijabs to be worn in Congress today, they posit, what's to say congressional burkas and niqabs won't be commonplace at some point down the road? It's not outside the realm of possibility, especially given that Islam is set to become the world's largest religion by the year 2050.
But others say this is nonsensical fearmongering. The U.S. was founded on principles of religious liberty and free expressions of faith. If someone's religion calls for a certain type of head covering, who are we to deny them that right? Plus, supporters argue, these concerns are primarily manufactured to target Islam. Think about it: when's the last time anyone complained about a Jewish man wearing a yarmulke in public?
Where do you stand? Should the rule be changed to accommodate hijabs in Congress, or are there good reasons to regulate how political figures present themselves?
152 comments
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Reverend Krystina S.
Why of course Muslim headscarves ought to be allowed. Would a (Christian) nun have to remove her headwear, if she wore it? Would a Sikh man have to remove his turban, if he wore it? We are free in the United States, and supposedly religiously tolerant. Let's make some people stop being FakeOutraged, and let Congresspeople and Senators wear religious headwear, if it is part of their tenet. It wasn't so long ago that A BLACK MAN was not allowed... the Outrage!? and that ANY WOMAN was not allowed... the Outrage!? See how far we are coming along, becoming a more tolerant and inclusive and accepting society....
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Don
"Would a (Christian) nun have to remove her headwear, if she wore it? Would a Sikh man have to remove his turban, if he wore it?"
The answer is a resounding YES - ALL persons are prohibited from covering their heads. This is equality made manifest. Why does this woman want to be Separate instead of Equal?
"let Congresspeople and Senators wear religious headwear, if it is part of their tenet"
NO. If you want to live in a country where the line between church and state are not drawn, please move.
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power to the people
Thank you for the narrow minded morning laugh.
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Don
I'm sorry you find factual information and logical discourse "narrow minded". More than likely, you are just a sleazy little troll who uses insults in place of reasoned responses. Let's see if I am correct...
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flugo
Excellent point of view, Don.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Don, is the Priest or Reverend who prays for the Senate at the opening of their sessions required to remove his collar because of separation of church and state or does he, in fact, keep his collar on? Of course, he keeps it on. If a Jewish rabbi were to pray at the opening of the Senate sessions, he would, of course, keep his yarmulke on his head as well. Separation of church and state doesn't mean that people stop being whatever religion that they are while they are in the Senate conducting the business of legislating, but only that they can't overrule the Senate with their religion and impose it upon them. Just wearing a headdress or a collar or a yarmulke doesn't do that, however. So, of course, it is perfectly alright for a Muslim woman Senator to wear her Islamic headdress during Senate sessions. Sikh men also have beards, as well as turbans, to express their religious faith. So, should they shave off their beards, too, along with removing their turbans in order to maintain separation of church and state? Of course not! Many government buildings also have the Ten Commandments plaques displayed on them, which would also have to be removed under strict separation of church and state and even Presidents couldn't pray for God's blessings or say "God bless the United States of America", if we practiced absolute separation of church and state!!! This would become totally ridiculous very quickly (more than it is already!) if pushed to its logical extreme! Why make such a big fuss about a Muslim Senator wearing an Islamic headdress?!! Just accept it and move on to bigger matters!!!
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Don
"...is the Priest or Reverend who prays for the Senate at the opening of their sessions required to remove his collar"
No, only head coverings, as previously explained. Collars do not normally cover the head...unless you have some strange collar...
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Rev. John D. Partin
But collars, as are quite evident to all REASONABLE!!!!!! people here and everywhere else, are expressions of religious faith, the same as Islamic headdresses, and don't have to cover priests' or ministers' heads in order to be such. If the objection is against expressions of people's religious faith in the Senate, that can't, again REASONABLY!!!!! only be restricted to Islamic headdresses worn by Muslim women, but must also, CONSISTENTLY!!!!!, be extended to collars worn around priests' or ministers' necks, as well as crucifixes or Stars of David worn around their necks or any other symbols of religious faith. It can ONLY!!!! be prejudicially demanded that Islamic headdresses ALONE!!!! have to be removed in the Senate, while all other expressions of religious faith there can be kept on. Yarmulkes are objects on Jewish men's heads, the same as Islamic headdresses, which Jewish men wouldn't be required to remove, either. If yarmulkes and collars and crucifixes and Stars of David don't need to be removed in the Senate, neither, CONSISTENTLY!!!!! and LOGICALLY!!!! should Islamic headdresses need to be removed in the Senate!!!!
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Pat Alfus
BINGO!!! The dreadful rules of iz-SLUM is too despicable for this atheist to even tolerate. When it comes to meKKKah, there is NO SEPARATION. Any woman who enters that D**N place in the desert without a total covering is going to be punished to the Nth degree. As a person who literally watched THE Trade Centers get built floor-by-floor from my childhood bedroom window, and on my way to a conference driving go The NJ Turnpike, saw then hit by a follower of mud-HAM-mud, I have total hatred for the fayth and find any 'respect' for it a total dis-respect of reality. Furthermore, if that female person were to show up at a meeting within Sor-diD Ah-Ray-Bee-aH without her husband, she would be stoned. So, make her take off her symbol of discrimination or just stay out of our government. AMEN
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Rev. John D. Partin
Pat Alfus, every Muslim in the world didn't fly into the World Trade Center or the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, but only those 19 terrorists did. If terrorism were really a major teaching or practice of Islam, more mainstream Muslims or all of them would be doing it and not only a few lunatic fringe elements now and then. So, it makes no sense to hate all Muslims or Islam for the actions of just a few of them, anymore than hating all white or black or any other people for the actions of a few of their group does. Also, Muslims, generally, have no more say over the customs, traditions or laws in their countries than we have over ours in this country and so why should a Muslim Senator remove her headdress because of what men in Saudi Arabia would do to a woman without a husband there? Again, that makes no sense!!!
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Bob
You are one IGNORANT FOOL!!!! How about doing some REAL INVESTIGATING BEFORE MAKING YOUR DAMN IGNORANCE KNOWN!!!
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Rev. John D. Partin
Bob, what kind of "REAL INVESTIGATION" are you referring to that would require me or anyone else to believe that "all the Muslims in the world attacked the World Trade Center or committed any other act of terrorism", instead of, quite obviously, only those 19 terrorists or other specific people who were involved in those acts?!! You are certainly the IGNORANT FOOL WHO IS MAKING YOUR IGNORANCE KNOWN HERE, not me!!!!
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Alicia
Thank you for showing your immense hatred for an entire religious group. Also, thank you for showing how childish and petty you are by resorting to name-calling. SMH.
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Roger Camp
Alicia, it is not a religion, only a belief like a cult.: John d Partum, yes all Muslims are the same. Some nutter stands up on a soapbox and spews their crap out, and they all follow. The comic book they quote is full of Sura telling them to kill the non believers or infidels or kaffar.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Roger Camp, once again, if all Muslims were the same, as you believe, they would all be flying planes into buildings or strapping bombs to themselves and blowing themselves and everyone nearby around them up or committing other acts of terrorism, and they just aren't all doing that!!! Only a lunatic fringe of a few extremists are doing that. So, they are, quite clearly, not all the same. You might as well say that all Christians are extremists and terrorists because of our few people who have committed crimes, too, such as the Inquisitors and Crusaders and others. What works for "all Muslims" also works for "all Christians". The Jews also killed Midianites and Canaanites and other tribes of people because their "God told them to do it" and "some nutter stood up on a soapbox and spewed their crap out and they all followed", but that wasn't the actual Jewish religion or what God was actually telling them to do. Neither is terrorism the actual Islamic religion or what God is telling Muslims to do because, if it were (except according to nut cases), all Muslims would be doing it and they aren't!!! The Bible also has many verses condemning non-Jews and other religions in Biblical times and demanding death for them, but those were men's words put into "God's mouth", the same as they are in the Koran, and not what God was actually saying to the ancient Jews or Muslims today. If the Koran is a "comic book" because of those verses in it, so is the Bible a "comic book" because of similar verses in it, by the same standard!!! Also, my name is John D. Partin, not John d Partum. Learn how to spell!!!
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Heather Engelsman
Thanks Don, I agree this is more about equality and maintaining separation of church and state, not religious freedom. She should be willing to remove it while in congress and only wear at other times. She understood all the rules when she ran for office. Rev. Engelsman
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Nancy Kilian
Great point, Don.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Don: Your objection is mute. You and all who agreed with you lose.
Congresswoman overcomes 181-year headwear ban while Rashida Tlaib takes oath on Qur’an that belonged to Thomas Jefferson.
Rules were changed to allow Omar, a Muslim sworn in on the Qur’an, to wear a religious head covering on the floor of the House. There had been a 181-year ban on headwear of any type in the chamber.
“No one puts a scarf on my head but me,” she tweeted last November. “It’s my choice – one protected by the first amendment. And this is not the last ban I’m going to work to lift.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/03/ilhan-omar-hijab-congress-headwear
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Don
"Your objection is mute."
I believe you meant "moot". I am not mute.
"You and all who agreed with you lose." Yes, Democracy lost. I hope that makes you happy.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Don: Yes, moot not mute. Thanks for correction.
No, Democracy and justice won and xenophobes lost.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Don: Yes, it makes me happy that Democracy, justice, freedom for all has won.
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Lucas Corso
Under the new rule, anyone can wear religious head wear.
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Roger Camp
But the hijab is not religous same as the niqab, it is forced upon them by their menfolk. Muslims arent interested in equality which is seen and demonstrated in so many of their speeches quoted from their comic book. They have been ordered to infiltrate foreign countries and either convert the inhabitants to believe in the shite that spews from this comic book or kill them.
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Art North
My position is that a citizen of the United States is first a free person, irrespective of race, gender and political & religious affiliation. Only secondarily does he/she claim these traits. If the intent is to use dress code as a leveling tool, all of congress should wear robes, as does the Supreme Court. Faces and hands should always be visible, head covering, if present, identical by rule, possibly optional. Congress and our country have so many other things, like adopting the ERA amendment, to worry about than these egotistical, ridiculous and distracting issues that come between us. Our Constitution states that we are all equal. We need to act that way in the halls of government.
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David S Logan
Big difference between tolerant and gullible. Negligent. A nun wouldntw be there and a Sikh would remove their piece out of respect. They have basically sworn themselves as enemies to all Faith's. Wise up
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renie
she must remove her head gear . no exceptions. thisis not for debate, next thing people are going to start wearig all kinds of head gear enough. no head cover period.
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Don
"This poses an obstacle for Muslim congresswomen who feel obligated to wear a hijab or some other type of headscarf."
It also posed an obstacle for Christians who wanted to wear head coverings. This is a SECULAR nation and needs to stay that way.
Equality = no one is allowed to cover their head. Period.
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Daniel
The rule is obviously outdated because it only used the masculine pronoun “his”, and it was originated in an era when women were not even allowed to vote. Also I’m pretty sure there are congressional members who are ultra right wing conservative “Christians” who wear a crucifix around their neck. If, as some claim, it’s a matter of separation of church and state, then NO symbols of ANY religion should be allowed. That would include any Mormon members not being allowed to wear their temple-garment underwear and no crucifixes for the other Christians. The leaders elected by the people represent the PEOPLE that elected them This lady never concealed her choice to adhere to her beliefs by wearing a head covering during her campaign. AS SUCH, her head covering was ALSO elected by the SAME people who elected HER. To not allow her to continue to wear the head covering would amount to degrading EVERY person who voted to elect her.
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Roland
Just saying as a reminder that the original intent of the separation of church and state is not to keep religion out of government but to keep government from establishing a one state religion as what they left the old country from.
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Norma Battes
" ...original intent of the separation of church and state is not to keep religion out of government but to keep government from establishing a one state religion... "
That distinction is too deep for most posting here. Unfortunately for all of us.
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Lisamarie BARRICK
Why would you bring in the Mormon undergarments? Or necklaces? The Rule/Law is no head coverings in the chamber. Thats what the rule is, of course if it was a Republican Muslim then the Muslim would have to remove the head covering.
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Glenn P Ordell
Forcing the social customs practiced by one segment of the world's population should not be used to injure or exclude another segment of that same population.
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Maria
Of course the head scarves should bcd allowed. I do however have a problem with head gear that only the eyes can be seen; and only because of safety concerns to others who can not identify someone (similar to the tinted glass on cars where the Police can see inside).
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Maria
Sorry for the spelling errors
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Janice A Ellery
Many Orthodox Jewish women and some Christian women also wear head coverings in public. There is in fact a black Congresswoman from Florida who is famous for her hats, I just can't remember her name. This rule seems outdated and definitely infringes on religious liberty,
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flugo
'jaundice oily':
We're NOT talking about 'wearing in public'! The issue is the covering of heads while in chamber. This troublemaker should have read the rules before she decided to become a member of a group . . . . a group that has rules which are to be respected..
She has no business 'making a point', 'pushing the boundaries' and 'causing trouble.' She ought to shut up or get out!
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Pat Alfus
BINGO!!!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
"flugo" You make fun of a woman minister's name by referring to her with disrespect as jaundice oily? What an ugly, disgusting troll. It would behoove you to shut up, not the Congresswoman. Janice, I agree, this is a religious freedom issue.
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Don
"Many Orthodox Jewish women and some Christian women also wear head coverings in public."
In public, sure - not in chambers. This rule applies to EVERYONE. Sorry, but Muslims are not an exception.
"There is in fact a black Congresswoman from Florida who is famous for her hats."
Her name is Frederica Smith Wilson, and she has NEVER EVER worn a hat in chambers.
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John Owens
Yeah. She dresses like a rodeo hooker.
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Norma Battes
" Yeah. She dresses like a rodeo hooker. "
Of which you appear most familiar.
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Pastor Dsve
Why do people make such big issues over things that aren't major problems? I'm Christian and a pastor. Someone tells me I can't wear a cross outside my shirt because it OFFENDS them I tell them GOOD, THAT MEANS I'M DOING MY JOB. Let's stop the hate in this world and try to better understand each other's faith so as to make this world a better place. If not for us, for our children and grand children. Take a look at my ULC profile and visit my web site.
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Don
"GOOD, THAT MEANS I’M DOING MY JOB."
Jesus said the EXACT OPPOSITE regarding professing your religion in public. Matthew 6:5-6:6
So, whose job are you doing, exactly? Satan's?
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flugo
'pastor' dive: 'OFFENDS. . . .DOING MY JOB'! What a load of crap! NO biblical basis for your error!
It's the Gospel that may offend. We are NOT to be offensive.
Get your 'opinion' correct, before embarrassing yourself.
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flugo
'pastor' dive: Offending people is 'doing your job'?!
NO where in the Scriptures does Jesus suggest we are to offend people. NO where! As a 'pastor' you ought to know that!
The Gospel may offend some people, but the presenter of the Gospel has NO right to offend.
You ought to know what you're talking about before embarrassing yourself.
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Pastor Dsve
ok, you'll have to know what profile to look at, won't you?
prison ministry services
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John Owens
If that has been the rule, it should not be changed to accommodate anybody. If they cannot follow the rule in good conscience, they have no business running for Congress.
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Pastor Dsve
Christmas is coming. Wouldn't it be nice to have a multi faith holiday for ALL PEOPLE OF ALL FAITHS? Christians Jews and every other faith all together. Universal . People coming together even if only for one day a year.
NO I'M NOT CRAZY.-
Don
FESTIVUS! For the rest of us! http://festivusweb.com/
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Pastor Dsve
I would like to start a muti faith Bible study in the Bridgeport, Connecticut area. This would be a around the table informal study of EVERY faith were we learn from each other. I feel there is just too much hate in this world. It's time we come together to make this world a better place. I want to do a weekly study. Any one interested can e mail me at prisonministryservices@gmail.com
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Don
"It’s time we come together to make this world a better place."
If you're honest about this, do something positive to achieve it - start by throwing out your racist, sexist, vile holy books...or at least stop trying to get advice from them. They are ignorant platitudes written by racist, sexist Bronze Age herders who didn't even know where the Sun went at night. Stop pretending there's any actual wisdom in there.
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Pastor Dsve
Jesus said we should judge not so let's stop being crule to people who are not of the same faith or race that we are. Don't worry about what they wear or who they call god. Christians are too fast to want to convert every body rather than just loving the person for who they are. They are not bad people just because they worship someone other than Jesus. Did you ever sit down with them to understand why they worship as they do? NO! We are too fast to judge them. Better to lead by example. These people look at us who are suppose to be CHRIST LIKE anfd what do they see? In case you don't know Christian means Christ like, look it up for yourself. When they look at you fo they see Christ? Maybe thst's why they don't become Christian. Hay I'm not perfect either, but I try to respect others and treat them as I would want them to treat me.
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Pastor Dsve
GOD IS LOVE...but we are not
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Pastor Dsve
http://prisonministry.net/btipms
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flugo
'pastor?' dave: You'd better 'look it up yourself''! You don't know what you're talking about! You're distorting the Bible's teachings about Christ!
Jesus said it's okay to judge and do it rightly: John 7:24. He, also told us to rebuke the errant(which involves discernment and judging). Luke 17:3.
If you're going to wear the 'pastor' title, do it with authenticity, reliability and validity!
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flugo
'pastor? dave': YES, YOU ARE CRAZY!
There is no Scriptural basis for it. NO where did God condone His people participating in other religions' ceremonies. In fact, He warned His people to not be involved in other faiths' worship, ceremonies, and activities.
NO way is 'light' compatible with 'darkness'.
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Hank Stanco
It's called ecumenism.
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flugo
'pastor? dave': WHO called it ecumenism? WHO is this 'it's' to which you're referring? I'd rather base my observations on the Scriptures than on 'it's'! God's opinion is what really counts. Right?
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John Owens
Ecumenism runs contrary to diversity. A culture that embraces and celebrates diversity should not really encourage ecumenism.
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Daniel
I like your idea of a universally day of celebration. I think the easiest wau to gay there would be to redefine Thanksgiving as simply a day for EVERYONE to be grateful. The current version only masks how horribly the indigenous people were treated after they helped their new neighbors survive. And - at the New Thanksgiving people could wear whatever they wanted to while recognizing we ALL have something to be grateful for. Hope you all have a great holiday season!
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Pastor Dsve
Thankx Daniel. Glad to see someone feels the way I do. Pastor Dave
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Rev. Gary Shade
so there are two of you?
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Daniel
Maybe just two who commented. But, for those who claim to be Christian a day of universal thanks and celebration would be a chance to practice how to “love they neighbor as thyself”-remember that the most neighborly was the one most despised and not the so-called religious leaders. One day out of 365 days of the year may not be much BUT it could be a start towards a better world.
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Rev Ned
I thought Thanksgiving was for everyone, not just followers The Christ or The Great Spirit.
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Randall Worcester
I believe the rule says “no MAN shall enter with HIS head covered” that ends that debate, she’s a WOMAN? Mitt Romney wears his Morman under clothes, Catholics wear their Cross, so a woman wearing her head coverings should be ok. That said a hijab? No because you don’t know who’s under it! They don’t allow them when getting a drivers license in Ca Let’s worrry about real issues like if we have a corrupt President who’s possibly violating the law every day.
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John D. Partin
Well, If I could be elected to Congress, which I cannot because the voters are so homophobic, I would want to wear a hat with a penis on it. I am certain the extreme right-wing christian libertarians would be deeply offended, and I would try to wear one with a penis from a different ethnic group every day, just to make sure I offended them all, because I hate them.
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Maiane santo santos
This is another bullshit bitch by people who cry about everything, you can see the ladies face, end it there, im so fucking sick of all the crap over nothing and the unknown morons hiding behind keyboards making scenes about everything, muslims, gays, black, white, athiest, christian, et al we all have rights, and screw you if you don't think so, the bloody dark ages are over, live with it.
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Maiane santo santos
Post this on twitter or fakebook, see what those fucking morons who are anonymous keyboard commandos have to say.
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James
Out dated for what reason? If head gear becomes legal. I'm gonna show support by wearing my head wear. My religons will let me wear my choices in full glory... https://www.scoopwhoop.com/Places-Where-Penis-Is-Worshipped/#.4ztdoqkwm
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James
PMS.... You crazy? Never... People coming together even if only for one day a year. What about the other 354 days? .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffO8nZThwmM
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ET
If the elected person wore the head covering during the election, then the electorate accepted it and it should not be problematic for the governing body.
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Daniel
It could very well be that the rule was also based on a rejection of the British protocol where their leaders wore powdered wigs while governing. So, if we literally applied the outdated rule today it would ALSO apply to wigs or toupees worn by the men as they are also a head covering. But how many older men would “flip their wigs” if told they could NOT wear their hair piece during congressional sessions!?! The outdated rule should not be allowed to selectively protect an old man’s ego while trampling in the will of the people who elected a woman and her known religious head covering. The outdated rule needs to be removed, or...OFF WITH THEIR WIGS!!!
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Pastor Dsve
I like you, YOU'RE FUNNY. BUT YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT.
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Pastor Dsve
THEY WOULD END UP WITH JUDGES WHO LOOKED LIKE KOJAK. ALL THEY NEED NOW IS TO PASS OUT TOOTSIE POPS TO EVERYONE. L O L
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Pastor Dsve
Hay! That's it. Stop the hate and pass out Tootsie pops. Who doesn't like Tootsie pops. And we can paint a smiley face on the back of their bald heads too. What do you think?
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Rev. Gary Shade
"If the elected person wore the head covering during the election, then the electorate accepted it and it should not be problematic for the governing body."
Her election is from a small area of Minneapolis and she does not represent all of Minnesota.
The rule iis in regard to head coverings only. Nothing prohibits someone to wear a cross or a star of David ro to carry a Koran into the Chambers. It deals with head coverings.
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Robert Bruce Kelsey
Both ideological sides here would benefit from a read of their own government's religious guiidelines. See Sessions' guidelines for protecting religious freedom ( https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-sessions-issues-guidance-federal-law-protections-religious-liberty ) and the SCOTUS opinions attached to the main ruling in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case ( https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/584/16-111/#tab-opinion-3910080 ). G. Ordell's post is close to the position of SCOTUS, which cites the need to protect expression of religion ** especially** when that religion is a minority and/or deviates from social norms. Gorsuch, concurring with the Court: " Popular religious views are easy enough to defend. It is in protecting unpopular religious beliefs that we prove this country’s commitment to serving as a refuge for religious freedom." Religious tolerance neither morally requires nor logically entails the suppression of all expressions of religious beliefs.
The 'rules of the group' flugo references and Don's invocation of the separation clause would be legitimate objections were this not a case of protected expression.
Welcome to America, folks! What was the phrase....? Oh, yeah, America, Love it or Leave It.
History is full of ironies, isn't it?
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Dan Atatakai
Personally, I find the hijab to be quite an attractive piece of clothing. No, I am not Muslim. The way some ladies wear them frames their faces quite nicely with the coloring complimenting their attire and eyes.
To discriminate in Congress is a form of "religious test", is it not, therefore, constitutionally, not allowed?
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Willie
It seems most people are ignorant about the fact of what taking your hat off means in by gone days. When men or boys entered a home they would take their hat or cap off n hang it on the hat rack. It would show disrespect for the hostess or host of the home entered, not to. And in the better educated families that still applies.Not for women but men and boys only. So it is only natural this also applies to congress or any official functions or for churches.
When a man was outside he would greet a woman/ women by taking his hat off slightly n puting his hat back on. It was always impolite for men to wear their hats or caps/for blue collar workers inside. Maybe because of safety reasons. Men could put a weapon in.their hat or cap. The way men would shake another mans hand to show he did not have a weapon in his right hand.
For women it it was the opposite. She kept her hat on since it was part of her attire, like jewelry or other adornments. In fact if she did not wear a hat in a Catholic church she was supposed to put a scarf or handkerchief on her head. I don't know about other denomination churches. The way a priest has his official gear on his head or other denomination have theirs.
In fact when pres.Trump visited the English queen he walked ahead of her and had his back to her. Bad manners. A real oaf. He thinks money can buy anything, but not good manners or etiquette! You never show your back to royalty and never get up before they do. They will give you the signal by getting up first. Otherwise like in the old days you have to leave walking backwards. That is the difference between the better educated families and blue collar workers wearing.caps or who wears hats. To learn a good trade is also invaluable. But nowadays any body can learn that, like setting a table correctly. Manners are just common sense, like the law is! For those that have it. ???
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Willie
What I forget to mention is you never offend others on purpose either, that is also bad manners. And inately you know what does and does not. Good or bad manners. Unless it is a necessary thing to make a point!??
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corsair red
It was terrible how Trump disrespected the Queen. I'm surprised they didn't nuke us.
When did laws become common sense? Perhaps you should read the US tax code.
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Pastor Dsve
Before I get busy let me wish you all a happy and safe THANKSGIVING
Pastor Dave Prison Ministry Services
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Joe
Meawhile back at the fake news desk the sore losers are trying to discredit a senator for wearing a Confederate hat on her own time four years ago. If we are going to accept symbols that offend than we should accept all of them. If someone in hijab's district should visit Congress wearing a swastika and ask for her help when they get mistreated the reaction would be interesting.
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Daniel
I would feel the same way for the senator who wore a confederate hat IF she had worn the hat while campaigning. And The responsibility is to represent ALL the people in their district and not just the ones who voted them into office. I think the woman with the religious head covering would respond to someone with a swastika the same way the woman with the occasional confederate hat would respond to a “damn yankee” or person of darker color - by not letting their own beliefs get in the way of doing the job they were elected to do.
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bri
You are all going to be six feet underwater in thirty years time. Start worrying about the things that matter and not whether the lady covers her hair. If she came in still burqua, that's different. She might be a he with an AK-47 underneath, but of course that would be ok if he had a concealed carry permit!
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Willie
So it is alright to kill somebody as long as you have a concealed weapon permit?????
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John Owens
I would LOVE to see where you come up with that six feet underwater in thirty years bunk. That's hilarious.
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Rashid
Reading all these comments has made me think about how far we have really come in terms of racism.
Being a muslim convert wearing headwear I see it myself. Why? Because I recognize myself from way back in the day. I wasn't such a nice guy back then. Would you recognize me? Run from me? Run to me? Bald head, white T-shirt, jeans, boots and suspenders. Sound familiar? We were known as skinheads. Most of us were raised in that culture. We used written text as rule to push our agendas. We used force when we couldn't get our way. It's sad that I see churches, our heros, parents or others we look up to using those same techniques.
We have progressed by changing history. Women being elected to an office which once bared them, wearing items which is currently banned... but alas, there are those monsters of history supporting the archaic rules.
Racism is really just an idiot wanting to control another, for his/her own enjoyment, draw attention to him/her self or to creat chaos (war monger.) After all... those who percieve themselves to be alone or on the bottom have to push their way up, right? What better way than to step on another!
Racism is not over. It will never be over. There will always be someone who wants control over others... Until others controls him!
Aren't we all the same? Looking to meet our creator on the best terms. What a shameful creation we are!
Rashid
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Don
"We used written text as rule to push our agendas" The way Muslims use the Qur'an to commit atrocities?
"We used force when we couldn’t get our way." Just like the Qur'an commands. Would you like the verses?
"It’s sad that I see churches, our heros, parents or others we look up to using those same techniques." The same techniques have been used by Islam for the last 1600 years.
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Daniel
Rashid; I commend you for the insight that the progress in your life has brought you. Many point to the few radical extremists claiming Islam sanctions their violence, while forgetting the terror and violence spread by “Christian” colonialism. I think the perfect example of peaceful Islam can still be easily accessed in the writings of Rumi, who repeatedly said how people who kill each other in the name of God, obviously didn’t get God’s message. Anyway. I consider my self a “non-traditional”, “old school” Christian, without all the political crap that has warped current “Christianity”. And, as such, I can honestly and lovingly say, “peace be with you”.
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Hank Stanco
Robert Frederick Drinan, a Catholic priest, served in the House of Representatives from 1971-1981. He wore his Roman collar while serving and no one complained. Why would an Islamic headscarf be so offensive.
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John Owens
Umm... because one is a collar and one is a headscarf? Just spit-balling here.
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Rich
I CAN see banning masks OR anything that hides a persons identity being banned... I don't really care either way about head coverings AS LONG AS there is EQUAL enforcement of what ever rules there are... IF this is allowed then they HAVE to allow people to wear MAGA hats and others too... Bottom line with me is EQUAL TREATMENT UNDER THE LAW!
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Amy
I know most people don't click and read links but this one is a really viable view on the difference between our ability to judge and gods ability. One of the lines that I really like is ..."It’s a terrifying thing to think of God judging me based on the way I judge others. So often, my judgment lacks mercy. It lacks compassion. And it lacks knowledge. Do I want to be judged by God and others with the same standard? https://theblazingcenter.com/2017/11/judge-not.html
As far as the hijab.. well I had an interesting encounter the other day. There is snow here and I wore a ring scarf , it goes around the neck twice and if you want you can pull it up over your head kind of like a hood. It is grey with silver thread and has white lace in the center. I was accosted and swore at being accused of being a 'White Islamac". One I am Native American just not as dark skinned. Two the stupidity of not being able to actually tell the difference between a scarf and a hijab BEFORE you start running your mouth is beyond understanding. I mean if your going to be racists at least KNOW what your being racists about. So hell if she wants to take the chance and endanger her life its her right to do so. But if she can't wear it I don't want to see any other religious symbols in congress. Oh Wait...that would be mean they couldn't have money in the government.. Yeah that would go over well lol.
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Rev. Gary Shade
"Do I want to be judged by God and others with the same standard?"
Actually when Jesus comes to judge you (and me) he is NOT going to be the New Testament Jesus you think he will be. He will have feet of Bronze and eyes of fire. He will judge quickly and without compassion according to Revelations.
What Bible are you reading where you think his judgement will be compassionate?
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flugo
'gray shades':
Excellent!
All of mankind is under judgement. We ALL are facing the 'death penalty' for our sins. But, JESUS took our 'sentence', our penalty on the cross. There, He showed mercy and compassion.
If we refuse Jesus' sacrifice, we WILL, one day soon, be judged quickly and without compassion. The time is NOW, to make the most important decision in one's life.
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The Doctor
I know which one your reading and it clearly is not one based on the following of the man deemed the christ by his followers.
Jesus clearly spoke that with his coming the old testament and its bloody ways were to be left behind. Any one with a basic understanding of theology and biblical history could explain that.
You sound much like the typical false christian trying to use the very same teachings Jesus condemned as divine mandate.
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Don
"Jesus clearly spoke that with his coming the old testament and its bloody ways were to be left behind"
Not at all. Jesus clearly said the EXACT OPPOSITE. Here is the verse verbatim - 'Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.'
Jesus clearly stated the law was NOT TO CHANGE ONE BIT until his return. Nowhere does he say the law is "to be left behind" - stop making up lies about Scripture please.
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John Owens
Don, you're a troll, but you are 100% correct on this one. In fact, when the New Covenant was promised, it never mentioned doing away with any of God's law. The prophets said He never changes.
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Don
"No one puts a scarf on my head but me. It’s my choice—one protected by the first amendment."
No one puts a gun in my hand but me. It's my choice--one protected by the second amendment.
Congressional rules prohibit both from being brought into chambers. PERIOD. Doesn't have anything to do with the Constitution or rights of any kind.
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M Wilhelm
Bullish!t Don it is only about hats. Men wore hats. Rule dates mostly back to 1800s
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The Doctor
Anyone with a basic grasp on history would understand that this rule was originally put in to help put the conflict between the Whigs and Loyalists to rest after the revolution.
However I do seem to recall reading something about it actually having in part a reason connected to religious garb as well. Recall that Puritan men wear hats. And those to where banned as yes separation of church and state did indeed intend to put the people they served before their religious values.
So while a part of me does want to support her position. Id not want to see it open a flood gate. However I also concur that does indeed mean any one wearing a wig or hair piece of any sort should also have to remove it, and indeed should not be allowed to have hair plugs or extensions of any kind.
Actually maybe we should even require everyone who serves in this capacity to keep their head shaved clean during their tenure.
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Bill Fox
The rule is unenforceable against a Representative.
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kevin oleary
every one has a God its not the same God you can have sun God rain God just because you have a God does not mean you have the right God so there for if your God not the right one well your not going to the place you want to go when you die let me just say the more hate in your country the less God in your country find the true God and you will find true peace. peace all
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M Wilhelm
It is about hats. Universal Church My foot! What a long winded drawn out bunch of crap
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william n Hodges
You need to have "like" and "dislike" buttons on the comments. That would give you and the rest of us a better feeling of the way the group is leaning.
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Lyn
This is just plain silly! Given everything going on in our government now, we have far bigger issues to deal with. Given that’s my first take, I’ll approach the head covering controversy. I do not recall right now but has no one ever worn a yarmulke in Congress? Has a priest or minister never worn a “dress”? It is absurd to bar a hijab. Frankly, I think underneath it all this is just anti-Muslim sentiment rearing its ugliness. If a nun were elected to Congress, I’ll bet what she wore would not even be mentioned. GROW UP, CONGRESS!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Agree with you Lyn. So much ignorance about Muslims. And to think these folks gnashing their teeth over this issue, probably still buy Saudi Arabian oil/and gas for heating, cooking and driving their cars and don't fuss about the Saudis. DUH.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Headscarves In The House? Congress Considers Rule Change For Religious Head Coverings Dec 12, 2018 by Liz Hayes
"Congresswoman-elect Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) said it best: “(T)he floor of Congress is going to look like America. And you’re gonna have to just deal.”
Omar was responding to conservative Virginia pastor E.W. Jackson, who is upset that House Democrats plan to spearhead a change to the chamber’s rules in January to permit representatives to wear religious headwear, including hijabs, kippahs and turbans. ... They plan to amend a rarely enforced House rule prohibiting hats and head coverings that’s been on the books since 1837, when a member of the House described the “really harmless but apparently indecorous practice” of indoor hat-wearing. The amendment would permit head coverings in response to illness and hair loss in addition to religious purposes.
It’s an appropriate religious accommodation that allows representatives to follow their own religious beliefs while not hurting anyone else or forcing anyone to favor one religion over another.
The proposal was met with broad support, including from Jewish groups. Avi Shafran, director of public affairs at the organization Orthodox Agudath Israel, told Jewish Insider: “Just as we would want a Jewish congressman to be able to wear a yarmulke in chamber, we would want a Muslim or Sikh representative to be able to hew to his or her religious convictions.”
https://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/headscarves-in-the-house-congress-considers-rule-change-for-religious-head?fbclid=IwAR0Pc5zhSi7MJ2Z453DPWBHvOwYzEvWH9isnU8Wb3JBDTq7C7fekfbIMrDk
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Jimmy Moon
First thing, shame on those people that elected a towel head to office, let alone two. America will pay for this when the towel heads rule us.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Jimmy Moon: Same on you, you xenophobic, racist slimeball!!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Jimmy Moon-Wow, why in the world are you on our ULC blog? Your racist and unkind comments are in direct conflict with what we believe and have agreed to uphold as ULC ministers. Please peddle your racism and xenophobia elsewhere. Racists like you are not welcome here.
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flugo
Maybe the manner in which you expressed your opinion is not so acceptable; but your message is 'right on'!
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Jimmy Moon: Shame on you, you xenophobic, racist slimeball!!
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Headscarves In The House? Congress Considers Rule Change For Religious Head Coverings Dec 12, 2018 by Liz Hayes
“Congresswoman-elect Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) said it best: “(T)he floor of Congress is going to look like America. And you’re gonna have to just deal.”
Omar was responding to conservative Virginia pastor E.W. Jackson, who is upset that House Democrats plan to spearhead a change to the chamber’s rules in January to permit representatives to wear religious headwear, including hijabs, kippahs and turbans. … They plan to amend a rarely enforced House rule prohibiting hats and head coverings that’s been on the books since 1837, when a member of the House described the “really harmless but apparently indecorous practice” of indoor hat-wearing. The amendment would permit head coverings in response to illness and hair loss in addition to religious purposes.
It’s an appropriate religious accommodation that allows representatives to follow their own religious beliefs while not hurting anyone else or forcing anyone to favor one religion over another.
The proposal was met with broad support, including from Jewish groups. Avi Shafran, director of public affairs at the organization Orthodox Agudath Israel, told Jewish Insider: “Just as we would want a Jewish congressman to be able to wear a yarmulke in chamber, we would want a Muslim or Sikh representative to be able to hew to his or her religious convictions.”
https://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/headscarves-in-the-house-congress-considers-rule-change-for-religious-head?fbclid=IwAR0Pc5zhSi7MJ2Z453DPWBHvOwYzEvWH9isnU8Wb3JBDTq7C7fekfbIMrDk
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Rarity
Personally I think that in the republic of the United states the key word being United this crap is nothing more than more me to movement. I have had enough of being tolerant of all things and being told I have to understand that its religion I have read the karan its very stupid its says kill all infadels no tolarance yet I have to be tolerant of them .I REFUSE
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
If we want to better understand Trump supporters, we should think of them as his congregation. He preaches to their fears ad sense of victim hood. He empowers them, he rallies them, he emboldens them. He tells them who to blame. He becomes their truth. He is the answer. Any assault on him is an assault on them. Do not deceive yourself into thinking your facts or logic can penetrate that emotional armor.
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Norma Battes
" (the rich often wore fancy hates), "
Still do. Still do.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
This ongoing argument is pointless and mute. The Democratic House changed its rules to allow Islamic women to cover their heads. All of you opposed to it GET OVER IT! https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/03/ilhan-omar-hijab-congress-headwear
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Don
So arguments are pointless and MOOT depending on arbitrary rules being enforced? Okay. I'll remember that the next time you post, Robert.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Yes, moot, not mute. Don is correct. But he only likes "arbitrary rules being enforced" that agree with his racist, xenophobic political views.
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Don
"his racist, xenophobic political views" Would you mind quoting my racist and/or xenophobic comments - you know, evidence for your claim?
Failing that, will you man up and apologize for your sleazy two-faced slander?
Thanks so much.
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The rule is outdated and unnecesary.
Would a hoodie then b allowed? How about a cowboy hat? Skimask?
"Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ..."
If a hoodie, cowboy hat or "skimask" are part of one's free exercise of religion, then yes, they would "b" allowed.
How about a collander? Pastafarians actually wear them on their heads. Google it. When is this nonsense going to end? Christians are always having to lose their cultural symbols, lose your scarf or get a different job.
Oh would you calm down Nancy?You Christians are NOT losing your "cultural symbols." You're just being told that you're not going to be given special privilege anymore. What cultural symbols have you lost? There's a 180 foot steel cross resting in Saint Augustine that is visible through most of the city. Christians have every single one of their major holidays off on the calendar. Christians can find a place of worship usually well within a short drive or a mild walk, with MULTIPLE choices as to denomination. Christians are so privilege that if they decide they don't like one church, they can walk down the street and find another church.
And if you'd actually give yourself two minutes of critical thinking, you'd know that no one who calls themselves a Pastafarian takes themselves seriously, and they are essentially a trolling operation akin to the Church of Satan. They don't actually believe the things they claim, they do it for satire.
And lastly, what does ANY of that have to do with an American Muslim woman being allowed to keep her head-scarf on during congressional meetings? Absolutely nothing. Extending the same privileges to Musliims, Jews, Pagans, Zoroastrians, and others does not mean that Christians will not have their own privileges. It's not pie. If someone else gets a privilege you have, it doesn't mean you have less privilege or right. It just means someone else was extended the same courtesy you were given.
So maybe take a Xanax, and a breath, and just chill, yeah?
Why not? And how does allowing Omar to wear her garb in anyway cause Christians to "lose their cultural symbols?"
i pray that Nazi democrats do not change this law and i will check and see what democrats and republicans voted on this bill. please do not destroy america.how come people from other countries come to america and change our laws wake America//////////
Sure. Why not?
All points are very valid yet equality goes 2 ways. With the money grubbing, gerrymandering , lies and denials what if she wants to blow her head off? Hijab means nothing to me.
Secondly, the spiritual leaders of this faith have sworn to destroy the United States. Read the old out dated book they follow and worship with. No. No head gear.
Do not generalize an entire religion's followers by the ignorant words of a few. If we were to play off of your words, then would the entire Christian community be nothing but terrorists and racists due to the actions of the KKK. Hijab can mean nothing to you, but it means everything to some. Would you expect a Christian nun to remove her headdress? No. You speak of equality but your easiness to fall into untrue and anti-Muslim stereotypes astounds me.
Muslims have no damned business in our government! Period Their mission is to destroy us!
AlE.Oop: Right wing extremist Christians have no damned business in our government! Period Their mission is to destroy us!
David S Logan: It is your sterotyping and bias that is part of the problem. For this reason we need to have Muslims elected to our representative bodies.
"Why Muslim women hope this year's historic election helps curb the discrimination they face." "Ayat Abu will never forget the time a complete stranger called her a "terrorist" in front of her children.
The mother of four, a Muslim who covers her hair with vibrant scarves and wears modest fashions as part of her religious practice, was walking out of a Murfreesboro Walmart in February with two of her boys when a man lobbed the insult at her.
"My son was extremely aggravated," Abu said. "I said, 'Do not do anything because the best thing for these people is to ignore them.' Because I don't know them and they might have a gun."
It was not the first time someone had harassed Abu for her religious beliefs. Far from it.
She chooses to wear the hijab, and that visibility can make her a target for hate. Abu has been flipped off more times than she can count, but the run-ins are scariest when they happen in front of her kids....Michigan Democrat Rashida Tlaib and Minnesota Democrat Ilhan Omar, who wears a headscarf for religious reasons, are Muslim, and both won seats to the U.S. House of Representatives in the midterm election." Read the whole news account here: https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/religion/2018/12/09/muslim-women-congress-rashida-tlaib-ilhan-omar-hate-discrimination/2027754002/
Are you out of your damn brain case!!! All these IGNORANT PEOPLE HERE have yet to read the SATANIC MANIFESTO THAT IS THE koran!!!!! DONT PISS ON MY FOOT AND TELL ME ITS RAINING....have any of you DAMN FOOLS read the HADITHS AND THE SURAS OF Mohammed?? AKA the minor demon of “Allah” AKA IBLIS/SATAN/ THATS his name if you damn IGNORANT FOOLS took the time to read THE SATANIC MANIFESTO that IS THE KORAN/ THE HADITHS/ and the SURAS..,,,ITS ALL ABOUT DOMINATION AND KILLING OF JEWS AND CHRISTIANS AND DESTROYING ALL OTHER FAITHS EXCEPT..,,THE DEVIL WORSHIPING MUSLIMS (before any dumb asses say anything) Muslims are NOT A RACE AS CHRISTIANS ARENT!!! But the MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS ARE SUB-HUMAN ARABS AND THEIR SLAVES.,,.NORTH AFRICAN SUB-HUMANS!!!! HUMANS DONT TREAT THEIR FELLOW HUMANS LIKE THEY DO!!! THEY ARE WAAAYYY BELOW TO BEING CALLED HUMAN....THEY ARE BEASTS OF THE FIELD AND SHOULD BE ULTIMATELY DESTROYED.....MEN-WOMEN-“children”-AND THEIR FELLOW ANIMALS...,.dont salvage ANYTHING. COMPLETE AND TOTAL ANNIHILATION....like they have done to almost every country they have put their in human meat hooks on!!!
I remember when Mother Theresa visited the congress, no one balked about her veil. She wasn't a member of congress herself, but everyone sure listened to her words and paid her due respect.
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This is a red herring. No one is suggesting guest do not wear head gear, just members.
Agree!
If a nun was a member would you require that she remove her veil?
Mother Teresa was a vile monster who caused more suffering just to line her Order's pockets. Shame on anyone taken in by this immoral shill.
Would a nun be asked to remove her covering in the White House. Of course not. This is a pointless discussion based on bias and ignorance.
I'm sorry but the Hijab isn't actually part of the Muslim faith! It's a symbol of women's oppression within the Muslim faith. So they don't look sexy in anyway. Muslim women have been fighting against the Hijab for a long time now. How can anybody get behind this symbol of women's oppression!! Wake up america I know we have the first amendment but certain religions have some seriously oppressive ideologies towards certain classes of people. Don't NORMALIZE it!
After 181 Years of No Hats in Congress, Dems Eye Exception for Religious Garb Ilhan Omar will become the first federal legislator to wear a religious headscarf.
https://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/headscarves-in-the-house-congress-considers-rule-change-for-religious-head?fbclid=IwAR1YpHz-C8oTuEvyZUrVBDc-8ZWQyak5TEguMtlJWgyiqBI-7z0Ryy9YUo4
Here's another news story about dress in the Congress that will make the fundi-conservatives heads explode. "Rashida Tlaib will wear a Palestinian gown as she's sworn into Congress." "US Rep.-elect Rashida Tlaib will be sworn into office next month while wearing a traditional Palestinian gown."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/politics/rashida-tlaib-palestinian-gown/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_content=2018-12-15T13%3A17%3A05&utm_source=fbCNNp&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR32KQ27_9oMUlhlz2zjLcX7YIBJsAaLnSChPC9lK1clBSrB4SAl__cP1uU
Government and religion are are separate in this country. Get rid of the headgear! She doesn't like our rules, our country, then LEAVE on the next flight. She also wants lighter sentences for Terrorists. They are trying to destroy our country from within! WAKE UP, AMERICA!!!!!!
There is no rule against wearing religious items in congress. Anyone can do it. The rule here was against HATS, and that rule prevented her from wearing her item. Any congressman can wear a cross pin if they want.
I believe the House of Representatives have violated the Constitution of the United States in that Separation of Church and State has been violated
They smell there gross should not be aloud in Congress they r killing people
Lisa Sass, learn how to spell! "There gross" is "they're gross", which is just your opinion, since gross is in the eye of the beholder and you are "gross" to some people. "Should not be aloud" is "should not be allowed", since the first means not said so that anyone can hear it, while the second means not permitted, which is also just your opinion. Also, headscarves aren't killing anybody and aren't responsible for what a lunatic fringe who wear headscarves might be doing. Non-Muslim head coverings also have been very violent and murderous at times!!
Also, "they smell" is just your opinion and prejudice against Muslims.