A public elementary school in the U.K. has become ground zero for an intense political standoff between two opposing groups: Muslim families and LGBT rights supporters.
The dispute centers around an educational program at Parkfield Community School in Birmingham called 'No Outsiders.' The program is intended to teach children about LGBT issues and promote acceptance of all identities.
Assistant teaching head Andrew Moffat, who is gay, helped design the curriculum and sees it as an important strategy for combating bigotry in schools. By addressing ideas like homophobia and transphobia before they are allowed to take root, the thinking goes, there is an opportunity to eliminate them entirely.
But not everyone agrees particularly those who pray to Allah.
Outcry from Muslim Community
Parents raising their children under the Islamic faith were none-too-pleased to hear their children were learning about LGBT issues in the classroom. Angry protests soon erupted outside the school demanding a change.
Numerous Muslim parents went on the record to accuse the school of "indoctrinating students" with ideas that are "inconsistent" with the teachings of the Quran. Others simply argued the topics aren't age-appropriate for young kids. "Children are coming home, girls are asking whether it is true they can be boys, boys as young as four asking whether it is true we can be girls. There is no need for it," one mother told reporters.
However, the most vocal opposition to the program stems not from a concern for children's well-being, but instead from religiously-inspired homophobia. The video below, shared widely on Twitter, shows a Muslim protest leader condemning the LGBT education initiative and shaming Mr. Moffat for telling kids that "it's okay for you to Muslim and for you to be gay."
Children can be heard echoing chants of "shame" off camera.
Amid the ongoing protests, public pressure to discontinue the program further escalated when over 600 children were held out of classes and some were withdrawn from the school entirely. Faced with no other option, school officials announced they were canceling the curriculum.
Religious Freedom vs. Homophobia
For those of us who've supported the LGBT rights movement over the years and loudly cheered the 2015 Supreme Court decision, this type of rhetoric is particularly disturbing even if it's coming from across the pond.
Fundamentalist religious beliefs whether they be Muslim, Christian, or some other faith are frequently at odds with LGBT rights. How, then, are we to balance these two competing ideals? What comes first: combating homophobia or protecting religious freedom?
Everyone has a right to their own beliefs, so long as those views don't cause or encourage harm to anyone else. This is already a difficult line to draw, but when you introduce public education the issue gets even more complex.
What do you think? Should religious groups have the power to dictate what's taught in classrooms?
67 comments
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Joe
I'm laughing to hard at all this" tolerance" imploding to answer. We need more tolerance for the intolerant.
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michelle
I will never tolerate the intolerant.
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Tom B
If this was here in the United States, my opinion is that no religious organization should have anything to say about public education...Peace...Tom
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Laurie Cleveland
You are correct, Tom, but unfortunately many precendents have been set and most of them have been bad, not only on this issue, but on the expression of culture and religion. For instance, up in Boston, there is a very big Muslim temple and many of the girls that go to school wear hajibs and clothing that covers their body except for their hands and face. This is an expression of their religion and culture. On the other hand, children of other faiths are not allowed to wear anything from jewelry to t-shirts, etc. espousing their religious beliefs. This is wrong and against the First Amendment. If you allow one group to do something, then you have to allow everybody else the same privileges. It's that simple. I'm in the middle. I'm not a fan of extremes of any kind, but the LGBT community is insisting that young children be exposed to this. Older kids and adolescents experiment. Does it mean that they are bisexual or homosexual? No. It's merely an experience. These people's rights have been trampled on for a long, long time. Now, they are going way over to the other extreme. Personally, groups should be all inclusive. When you single out one group, trouble inevitably follows, particularly with these people. It is unfortunate and ridiculous, but the truth is that all religions with a couple of exceptions promulgate peace, but they don't practice what they preach and this is a prime example of it.
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Tom B
Laurie...thank you...i agree with all you wrote...i am 77, and to me, this country is in the worst condition in my lifetime...i hope that the misguided middle and lower class MAGA people realize what is happening before the next election....letting what are practically evangelicals and zealots trample on Americans, in conjunction with the monied upper class, will destroy America...and this will be further augmented by gradually introducing aspects of Sharia...if religious groups do not want their children in the public schools, the laws allow them to home or private school their children, as long as the education meets the minimum State standards...Peace...Tom
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Rev. Laurie G. Cleveland, RN
You mentioned Sharia. It is not joke. I bought a paper some people were hawking at a light in one of the not-so-nice neighborhoods in Boston. When I got home I read it and was absolutely appalled at what these Sharia zeolots had planned for America. I have no respect for this nor do I have respect for the "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" "reverends" who spout out hate and intolerance. I grew up with the "monied" people, being a Goodrich. I had to learn everything a young lady should learn (and what a pain that was!). These people, for the most part, are insular. If you do not go to the "right schoo", wear the "right clothes" or have the "right hairstyle and string of pearls" each girl gets at their "coming out" party, then you amount to nothing. My girlfriend and I went to the Ladies Dog Club match in MA. It was on a Wednesday so they could keep entries down and the match was in the middle of a horse training track. We got there early and were invited into their meeting. It was like the Stepford Wives! My girlfriend was trying hard not to bust out laughing as I put on a Proper Bostonian accent and, of cours, I came from Cohasset, so that made them intersted in me. We had a very nice home on So. Main St. Certainly nicer than the one that I was in. At any rate, they had an older lady totally befuddled at the entrance table and I asked her if she needed any help, to which she replied graciously, "Oh could you dear?" Within 15 minutes, I had everything all straightened out and how to do the table. She asked me for my address to send me a thank you note. I never received one. Why? Because it wasn't on Jerusalem Rd. or Nichols Rd., the only 2 roads in Cohasset that counted to them. This is a problem and I decided that I would seek my friends elsewhere. As a result, I can function practically everywhere. The point I'm attempting to make here is that the people with money think that because they have it, nobody else counts. This President is exactly like this. Sad really. Then you have the troublemakers on Facebook. It appears that everybody is attempting to divide this country either by race, religion or economic status and at this time in my life because of a knee injury, I never thought that I'd have to tkae SSI and be on either a public health care plan or Medicaid and food stamps. At the end of the month with Medicare taking out Part B? Indigent would be an apt word, which means that I have to reinvent myself again. When you hit retirement age after working basically since I was 14, I should be making enough money to be comfortable and halthcare should be paid but that isn't the case anymore. We have all sorts of screwballs that are in positions of power and I swear that as soon as they get elected, they forget where their heads and hearts should be.
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michelle
Amen!
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Laurie Cleveland
I happen to agree with them. For me, it has nothing to do with religiouis freedom. There is a strong push way past the midline where people can decide what they want to be called, etc. This issue has gotten way out of hand and it needs somebody or something to rein it in. I was to marry a lesbian couple, only they opted for somebody else to do the ceremony, because they wanted to pay tribute to a service person who has recently died. I also offered to tie the knot for my niece who is marrying her longtime companion, both of whom are lesbian. I have had friends who are gay. I stand directly in the middle of the road here. Yeshua did not discriminate against those that preferred the same sex. It is the various religions that did that. The fact of the matter is that they want to shove their agenda down the throats of children who are too young to be exposed to this stuff. The problem with all of this is balance. For too long, these people's rights have been infringed upon and now it's gone to the other extreme. I also have a problem with a group just targeting these young people. There are many heterosexuals that experiment with the opposite sex during adolescense. I watched that happen to my other half's neice. Her motives were that she was angry with her parents because her father was a substance abuser and alcoholic and her mother was a mouse because of the abuse she had suffered at the hands of her mother growing up. If people actually started just LIVING their religious preferences (the good parts) and stop all of this nonsense, the world would be a better place. Christianity, Judaism and Islam all preach one God and peace, but it is always a conditional peace. It is because of that that many of these people seek what they need outside of traditional religions, i.e. Hinduism, Buddhism, Pagan, Wiccan, etc. Some even go to the extreme of either believing in Satan or nobody at all. The Universal Law is Love. The other Univsersal Law that comes into play here is The Law of 3. What you put out comes back at you x 3. You put out negativity, you get it back. You put out positivity, you get it back. Simple. I am a High Pristess of Wicca, electic. I believe in the dualism of both Male and Female God. It seems that when somebody is perceived as different, they are targeted. For centuries, any person that does not fulfill their sexes role is put to death. That is part of the Muslim culture. The Qu'ran is broken up into two distinct books really. The first part is true Islam, the second part is when Mohammed actually fell from grace and there is hate throughout it. There are two different types of Islam. One believes that women are lower than dirt and treats them accordingly. The other does not. I'm not sure which group these angry people are, but I can tell you that terrible things happen when somebody doesn't like somebody else. It's time we stopped this nonsense and learned from our mistakes before it is too late.
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ET
In my opinion there’s nothing wrong with teaching tolerance and compassion for others in the public schools, The knowledge can reduce the tendency toward bullying. However if that isn’t acceptable to religious parents, then they are free to place their children in a religious school or home school them. Mainstream children shouldn’t be deprived of tolerance teaching and public schools shouldn’t allow religious groups to bully them into changing.
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Carl Elfstrom
Shoulding on ourselves won't get anything accomplished. It' very similar to the other thing that sounds that way. Religious beliefs aren't bad as long as they aren't hurting anyone, but when they promote disdain for a group of people for simply being themselves, that's a bad thing. Teaching children to treat others fairly is not bad. However, the subject could be addressed as a lesson in a social studies class, instead of being a separate class. Like how much do we need to know about how different kinds of people live. Also, there are many different kinds of people, and there aren't enough hours in a day to have a class devoted to each and every one of them. So why pick gaiety as the only subject of a class, other than a big wig is gay, so he naturally has strong feelings about it. It would be wonderful if everyone accepted everyone else, but that isn't reality, and no amount of education is going to make anyone feel better about anyone. Some people seem to be naturally accepting and tolerant of others, and some aren't. I'm glad most people are, or this world would be a much worse place to live. Still, after all the years we homo sapiens erectus bi-peds have lived on this planet it hasn't become a utopia for all, so it seems irrational to think it ever will. So, is there still such a thing as a social studies class? I was required to take that in school for a few years, starting in fourth grade. Children are social creatures, just like the rest of us, and are more likely to be ruled by their feelings than us older adults who have learned to discipline ourselves, so why not start teaching them about different kinds of people, at an early age, while they are quick learners, before they become set in their ways?
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Kirk
School is for the three “Rs”, reading, writing and arithmetic! Too much “social justice” crap in schools caused these two favored groups to go to legal war over which should be more favored. Looks like the group that throws gays off buildings in their home countries won this round.
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michelle
Lol seriously? It’s called biology. That is ok in school correct? Anyone who thinks that sex is not part of biology are fools. Plus kids often become sexually active in middle school. They need to be educated.
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Carl Elfstrom
Arithmetic doesn't start with an R, Kirk, writing starts with a W, and spelling starts with an S. What about science, history, government, home economics art, choir, band, biology, woodshop, metalshop, P.E., and JROTC. I took every one of those courses in school.Did you only take the three you thought were important, and skipped the rest? Sounds like you didn't learn much in school. Does that also reflect your personality type?
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Carl Elfstrom
P.S. Forgot to mention, I was also a writer on the school newspaper, in junior high, took piano lessons for two years, played baseball, football, and basketball, on teams with the gray Y, was a cub scout, and took swimming lessons for five summers at the YMCA. Nothing but reading, writing, and arithmetic, eh? What a boring way to live.
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Rev. Laurie G. Cleveland, RN
Carl, Carl, Carl! It used to be called "The 3 R's." You are correct that they are spelled differently, but that person was dating himself and I certainly remember it growing up along with learning phonics, which they don't teach anymore, Reading "Fun with Dick and Jane," lol. The kids aren't being taught anything except how to pass a test. Creativity has gone out the proverbial window. They can't write their names in cursive and in some schools, kids are being penalized for actually writing! They aren't being taught geography, real history, forget civics (you saw the results of that folly at the last election when some idiots wanted a "do over"), musc, art and gym and, of course, things like biology etc. I certainly disagree with what this group of people did, but while I do disagree with how they got their point across, I am in the middle. Any group should be inclusive. There is too much hate being preachred everywhere. There was a recent article that the military used 7th Day Adventists for terrible experiments using biological weapons. What is going on with everybody? Has this world truly gone as fruity as a Christmas fruit cake. Oh, forgive me, we can't use the word Christmas anymore. It's politically incorrect. I think you get my point.
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Jeanie
So it’s reading, riting and rithmatic? There’s your problem. If a religious group doesn’t like what public school is teaching, then they should home or private school their children. Publix school should expose children to as much education as possible and teach tolerance. And apparently you might want to take a relling course, that’s spelling for everyone else.
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Tom B
Jeanie...I agree...in the present world, where parents do not teach their children how to go out into the world, it behooves the schools to teach honor, humility, compassion, tolerance, respect, etc...Peace...Tom
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Rev. Laurie G. Cleveland, RN
Jeanie and Tom B. While homeschooling is always a fairly populat choice, the kids don't get the same interactions with their peers as they would normally do, whether good or bad. I was ranked on, despised, didn't get credit by the athletic dept. for anything I could do, the captain and chief jock attempted to steal $20 from me and I chicken winged him and put him ina hammer lock. He couldn't escape and he refused, like an idiot to give me back the money my mum had given me for a book fair. My life was a living hell, but I survived it. Getting back to homeschooling, I had a protege in dogs. The young lady in question came to one of my obedience classes and she showed such an interest and aptitude, that I took her under my wing. She had Squeaker, who was a natural in the show ring, but everytime she made Best Junior Handler, she had to switch to a different dog. That way, she learned how to bring out the dog's best features and minimize the faults. She was home schooled and her mother was a bit, "soft in the head" and was a rabid Born Again and Right-to-Lifer. The kid had no childhood until she came to me. What the mother didn't know was that once we set up at a match or a show and she had time, she could go and seek out her friends at the dog shows. It was the least that I could do for her. She later refused to take my written test because, as I later found out, everything that I taught her except for the showring went in one ear and out the other. Without a written examination for the Board of Education, all of her time could not be counted. She, unfortunately, got her revenge years later as I considered her to be like a little sister. Sometimes, things just don't work out the way you hoped they would and her early beginnings clearly hadn't helped her one bit. She was everything that The Bible teaches you NOT to be. Very sad.
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michelle
It use to be called the 3 R’s. So either you are ignorant to that which is fine or you are choosing to be difficult
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Jeanie
I meant public school not Publix! ?
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Dr.Rev. Annie
Parents who are very religious should send their kids to a religious school.I do think the subject of sex can wait until about third grade, but let's face it, kids find out a lot of misinformation about sex from their friends so it would be good for them to be given some facts and not just gossip. And nothing wrong with kids being taught tolerance at a young age.
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michelle
But why? Sex is as natural as breathing or your heartbeating. We teach young kids about good and bad touch. We need to take shame from sex. A guy I met years and years ago was a farmer. He was raised on a farm/ranch and always knew what sex was. He said in first and second grade he watched he father “helping “ during mating. He didn’t understand why parents kept the action of sex secret. He even said he was in first grade and he asked if people did it the same way. He said his daddy laughed and said it was more fun for people and they did not have to do it outside.
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Carl Elfstrom
My parents sent me to two Roman Catholic schools, and thank God,I managed to get expelled from both of them. Those were two of the happiest days of my life! Only miss getting drunk on communion wine before mass, when I was an altarboy. That's not why I got expelled, though. It actually helped me tolerate the whole Catholic experience better.
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Tom
In the rock, paper, scissors societal hierarchy, I guess Islam beats gay. Here I thought nothing can beat trannies at this game then along come the muzzies for the win. In the words of the late Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?" The answer is no Rodney, unless the world converts to islam, there will always be an issue with how the rest of us choose to live our lives.
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John Owens
Islam is not compatible with most western values. It ceryainly is not compatible with the more liberal of western values. Everyone should have known that, even when Obama was claiming that Islam built the fabric of our country. We knew that was not true.
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Ralph J Miller
I'm not Muslim and I don't want my kids learning about this crap.I wish people keep their lifestyle choices to themselves
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Steven
Ralph, the problem with your statement is that being gay is not a choice. Did you decide to be straight? Are you gonna teach your children about it at home? They will be exposed to it sooner or later. Fact is people are different in many different ways. If YOU don't teach your children about the differences and that everyone has to be respected and loved no matter if they agree or disagree with them, well then YOU SIR are teaching them that it is ok to hate and mistreat persons who are different than themselves. It might be race, sexual orientation or any number of differences. Some differences are choices and some are not. However to refer to any differences in the spirit of calling them crap is very concerning with it comes to mutual respect for individuals.
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John Owens
Being straight or gay is not ONE choice. Being a good father or husband or friend is not ONE choice. Being a good worker or citizen is not ONE choice. It is a million little choices, made day in and day out, year after year.
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Ralph J Miller
Being gay or straight does not define who you are.You can choose not to have sex...You say it's not a choice? What this tells me is that you have no control over your sexual desires.Just like a rapist or pedophile,they say they can't help it.Does that mean they were born that way?
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Kathleen Baird
If they choose to keep their children from learning about other lifestyles or other religions or being vaccinated, that is their right as parents, as long as they know they must homeschool their kids to keep them from contact with others who do not share their ideas. The world, and its media today, discusses so many different fields of thought that they are deeply stupid if they think they can send their kids out into it and not expect them to have questions about ideas, values and lifestyles not identical to their own. (Disclosure: 76 year old heterosexual grandmother to 5)
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Mark Hannon
I am a gay man living in a country that has not stopped employers from firing LGBTQ. Christians haven't learned too tolerate others so why is it a surprise that Islam hasn't caught up with that yet? Look at what Ralph J Miller posted the other day.
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John Owens
Christians are much more tolerant than Muslims, Mark, or you would not be living in a country where Christians live. Muslims would through you from a roof for sport.
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michelle
I hope you are joking. I’ve never found Christians to be overall tolerant
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John Owens
If they were not, people like you would not be here.
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michelle
Not sure what that even means. You are the perfect example of why Christian are not tolerated.
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John Owens
Let me say it slowly for you-- If...Christians...were...not...tolerant, ...people... like...you...would...not...be...here.
Now, if that is not self-explanatory, permit me to explain it to you:
If Christians were not tolerant, you would not find it tolerable to be here.
How is my explaining that to you "a perfect example of why Christian are not tolerated?"
How is it intolerant for me to tell you that Christians are much more tolerant than muslims, or more tolerant than you want to admit? Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself.
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Mark Hannon
I've been arguing with people like you for 47 of my 57 years. You bore me.
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John Owens
That is YOUR fault. You aren't bored. You are boring. If Christians were not more tolerant than Muslims, you would be dead or deep in the closet, afraid to come out.
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michelle
Again the perfect example of intolerance. Troll
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John Owens
YOU are the troll, Michelle. How is it intolerant for me to point out that Muslims make homosexuals afraid to come out on fear of death?
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John Owens
I guess someone rethought their own hatred.
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michelle
Lol are you 5? No you are? That is not an intelligent conversation. Thanks for playing
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John Owens
I was humoring your hypocrisy.
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Ralph J Miller
Mark Hannon.I'm not preaching hate,I have friends that are gay.their private people.Meaning they don't shove their lifestyle down people's throats.They admit to choosing that lifestyle and don't support the lbgt organization.What purpose does it serve to teach homosexuality in schools.
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michelle
I don’t believe you for a second. People like you always claim to have gay friends who do not support the LGBTQ community and say it’s a choice. Lol.
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Rod Gesner
This story is from England that has a National religion... I attended a School with British teachers St Richards, in Indianapolis In.. from kindergarten to 3rd grade.. Chapel every day; My parents were Unitarians, my grandfather a Disciples Missionary; Best family friend a Jewish doctor; so I got a Well rounded education; (with only the Ruler to the back of my hand to complain about;) That being said when I went to Public school and the School tried to force religious ed on me (they dodged the law by renting a trailer space to the Rel ed group;) But they required that my parents send a Note; Refusing my attendance.. They refused to send it, because they felt it was contrary to the Law in USA; and left me in the middle of a Confusing battle with school Admin...Eventually it got sorted out and I was allowed to stay in the classroom and do ?Busy work with an irritated teacher that didn't get her break time.. But again this is England.. not USA therefore the Muslims Rights are not protected by separation of church and state. they can Pull their kids on the days these classes are are taught.. Same option given to USA Fundies... But They should not be allowed to influence School Policy; any more than they should be allowed to inforce Sharia Law Here (USA) or There (England). as far as those complaining that it is Too much Education for Grade schoolers: Tolerance and acceptance should be taught as early as kids are placed in a Public Forum... Children with awakening feelings of Not fitting in should be protected and counseled at ANY AGE! Anything less contributes to the Bigotry and Bullying; that has Killed TOO many!!! Caused To many Suicides!! To not address these issues in Public Schools is NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE...
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Ralph J Miller
Here's the problem with teaching this in school...If a kid grows up in a church where they teach certain lifestyles and choices are a sin then goes to school where there told that lifestyle is ok because there born that way...causes conflict"Who's right who's wrong" kids can be harsh(especially with the invention of social media) tolerance should be taught at home.
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michelle
That is the parents problem. Sexuality is science. Basic biology. If as a religious person they are afraid of science that is their problem. The religious right likes to ignore science. It always has.
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John Owens
The irreligious left also likes to ignore science. Bigtime. It always has.
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Ed
This is hilarious. 2 liberal "poster issues," coming to a head, in opposition.
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W
Absolutely disgusted. Breaking British law and legislation that protects individual's with a protected characteristic. This is a hate crime and police should act to be honest. I feel that religion is the indoctrination and the thing that poison's people's selfish minds. What a hypocrite as he stands on his van spouting negativity. I feel sorry for their children, a percentage of whom will grow up to be gay or trans.
Welllll......go to school somewhere else. Your religious beliefs are yours not ours, keep them to yourself!
Totally agree!
It is really a shame when people possess their ignorance and make it so dear that they take it as fact, when almost always, that ignorance is wrong, especially when it comes in the form of racial or religious bigotry.
I have seen this in Christian schools as well as a great deal of "stink" in the public schools.
This is a social issue, not a sex education issue.
Somewhat insensitive, no? But on a different tack, who the heck decided our children needed to learn IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, for crying out loud, about all the different birds and bees??? Is there nobody anymore who thinks this is the parent's responsibility??? Schools are places for learning future skills, and it is about time PARENTS accept responsibility for teaching their children about the world and their place in a moral society! This should have never been the job of teachers!
I agree with you Rev. Sometimes the best information is no information and just defer to the parents. These are professional educators who should have better judgement on the appropriateness of this material to the emotional and intellectual readiness of these children. Now having said that I do believe there is a place to present valid and reliable information through the school system. But not at this young age. Parents of course should have the option of removing their children when it comes time for the kids to learn about different opinions, values, and choices that people make. Just because some parents want to keep their children in the dark does not mean it shouldn't be offered in a public school. Just make sure it is appropriate for their level of understanding.
Just a quick counterpoint to the first sentence. Often times the alternative to no information from the parents, which is WAY more common than one would hope, is wrong information from the internet, friends, finding things in your older brothers room, etc. etc. At least information from school should be (I know, not always) factual.
A counterpoint to yours, it is not for you to decide what beliefs or what sex MY children should learn. My kids are not in school to learn about sex, they go to learn academics.
I also agree with you Rene. It is the parent's responsibility to teach the kids the facts of life and it is the parent's right to discipline them when they have done wrong and to decide whether or not their children should recieve 5 shots at once. More and more, parents are "too busy" with work to pay attention to what is going on at home and they certainly are "too busy" or "too tired" to send their kids to church school and attend themselves. Each one brings something different to the table, but I think the worst things to happen to public education are these: 1. Abolishment of dress codes. 2. MCAS or Common Core. They don't teach children what they need to learn and we have several generations of abysmally stupid people. I'm not talking about IQ, I'm talking about what they aren't being taught. 3. We have gotten rid of The Pledge of Alligience, a moment of silence (which was the agreed upon compromise) and have banned anybody that wears a symbol of their faith in class with the exception of those girls who come from strict Muslim families where showing any skin except for the face or hands is considered immodest. As far as I'm concerned, this constitutes a symbol of faith. If you are going to allow it for one, then you have to allow it for all. 4. Cell phones. These should be checked in when the kids enter the school building and checked out at the end of the day. If there is a family emergency, call up the principal's office, like we used to do. That way you don't have distracted kids and kids who no longer understand how to communicaate with their peers. 5. The LGBT community has gone from being picked on and scorned (or worse) to the other end of the spectrum. I do not agree with their agendas. If somebody wants to know about them on their own time, fine, but not as a group afterschool. In this case, it should be open to all, not just those who identify as such. When you have people who come from strict religious backgrounds, you are going to get problems like this, yet it is so stupid! Almost every religion preaches peace and love, but do they practice what they preach? No. It's time to remember the number one Universal Law and that is Love. Unconditional love. Yeshua did not discriminate against them, but everybody else sure has.
You realize kids often become sexually active in middle school or Junior high. And why would you wait into then to explain sex? Sex is not a dirty word. A long time ago I was talking to this guy who was about 90 he said he knew what sex was from an early age. He lived on a farm and the animals often needed “help”. He said they knew what sex was and so did all the kids in class. When did people become so prudish? Because parents are so prudish is why we need sex education in schools parents are why too uncomfortable
Maybe they watched Archie Bunker too much.
Michelle, Kids are growing up way too fast and getting into things that they have no business getting into. Not every kid is sexually active in middle school. Many parents still teach their kids what they need to know. When I had to give my daughter "the talk," even as an RN, it was difficult, but I got two movies. One was entitled what teenagers want to know about sex and the other was about how life starts. I think the latter was a National Geographic one. My daughter was almost in puberty at the time and I also told her that while I did not condone her being sexually active, I did tell her that if that was her choice that I would be more than happy to take her down to the GYN and get her on birth control pills, because condomes sometimes break. In high school, they even gave the kids one of those dolls that mimick a baby crying and you had to figure out why it was crying. Just like a real one. By the time the weekend was over, my daughter was exhausted, lol, and had a different perspective on parenthood. I do't mind if schools do this because it is very effective and boys need to do it as well. They may then understand that "wearing a raincoat" isn't such a bad idea afterall! Even in the Muslim failth and culture there are gays, but they are generally forced to marry and have a child or two, regardless of their natural incliniations. Below there is a Father and the Catholic Church has had one scandel after another and it is because they don't allow priests to marry. My own grandmother from PEI was raped by a priest and nobody would believe her. There is no excuse for that, just as there is no excuse for this type of hatred and that is what fuels the LGBT agenda to the extreme. I don't agree with gays dressing up as women reading to young children. I don't believe in "gender neutral" baloney and I certainly don't believe in allowing a boy access to the girl's bathroom or locker room because he feels that he is a girl trapped in a boy's body or vice versa. We are already seening the stupidity of that. In certain instances with children being born with both sexes which is rare, but common enough, the doctors and parents have to figure out which way the child will grow up to be. Sometimes they get it right. Other times they don't. These are the only true transgender people. This has gotten so out of hand, it isn't even funny.
Why is it difficult? I honestly do not understand that. It is just sex. Sadly you are choosing to not understand about trans people. I’m not going to waste my breath. I pity people like you. I’d say educate yourself but you will not.
Speaking as a minster here in the UK I like to give you my thoughts. Yes you are totally right it is the jobs of the parents to teach there children about this but this just isn't the case. Some years ago the UK had a high level and teenage pregnancy underage sex and unfortunately rape. The sex education that was brought into the schools was in two parts, one was very mush a biology lesson about how your body works and how you get pregnant and the baby grows. The second was on contraception STDs and what consent is. Because of this the the teenage pregnancy dropped by 76% underage sex didnt really drop that we know off but teenage STDs did drop dramatically. And so did the teenage rape with kids understanding just because a girl said yes to kissing didnt mean she said yes to sex. In uk schools parents have the option of their children not taking this class and they do another lesson. The sex ed is done over two half days at high school (10-16 years of age) normally when they are 13 or 14 so to not take much out of the rest of their academic learning. I can also see the idea of teaching children in school can stop the embarrassment of wanting to know things ans understanding could stop homophobia but of course it was never going to be easy as people would have an issue with it especially in Birmingham with has a high concentration of Muslim and Asian families. But with all things it should start at home but if there is homophobia at home that's all that will be learnt.
Fr. Anthony: I applaud that your country took a sensible approach to the matter. If the sex education classes did all of that at the right age, then that is a wonderful thing! Congratulations on something that worked so well! I remember when I was maybe round 13 or 14, a boy that I had been friendly with when we were children wanted me to come and see his train set in the basement of his home. I was very naive. He had other ideas. He tried twice. I told him "no" twice and when he tried to force the issue, I believe that I may have clocked him one. At any rate, it stopped him and BTW he DID have an awesome train set! After the second time, he decided that I wasn't such an easy target.
I remember the entire 5th and 6th grades of my elementary school going to a sex education movie and talk in the gymnasium - boys and girls. That would have been 1972. Up until then I thought women popped babies out of their butts. The boys I told that to made fun of me and got us all in trouble. Roseville, Michigan and it was Washington Elementary School.
why should someone be forces to go to another school because they don't want their kids to learn something in school. I also hate how schools teach children useless things and now we have to deal with this subject, I'm sorry but this subject is not necessary at all. If they want to learn about it, better their parents tell them about it and school teach children important roles in society.