Is it wrong to depict Jesus as a Native American?
Congregants of the St. Joseph Apache Mission in Mescalero, New Mexico were recently shocked to discover that an 8-foot painting of Jesus Christ as Apache was missing.
Now, Apache Catholics who have long frequented the church say the removal of the painting, which hung behind the church altar for 35 years, is forcing indigenous Catholics to unfairly choose between their faith and culture.
Let's examine what happened.
The Missing Painting
On June 26th, the church’s pastor removed the popular painting from behind the church altar, as well as Pueblo-made chalices used to deliver the Eucharist. The removal reportedly occurred on orders of Bishop Peter Baldacchino of the Diocese of Las Cruces.
The painting, created by Franciscan friar Robert Lentz, has hung in the St. Joseph Apache Mission since its 1989 creation. Depicting Jesus Christ as a Mescalero medicine man, it was a beloved icon of unity for an indigenous Catholic community who are often made to feel that their faith and culture are at odds.
Upon arriving at church, parishioners were shocked to see the painting gone, initially believing thieves had stolen it. When they were informed it had been removed by the Diocese, many were surprised – but also felt such a move was typical for church leadership that they say often makes them feel marginalized.
“Hearing we had to choose [between faith and culture],” said congregant Anne Marie Brillante, “that was a shock.” Brillante says church officials are trying to cleanse the Apache of their “pagan” ways by eroding their culture one artifact at a time.
A Rare Papal Apology
Catholic and Indigenous relations have often been strained, and only recently has Catholic leadership made a concerted effort to earn the respect and trust of the Indigenous community. That reconciliation began in 2022, when Pope Francis issued a rare formal apology to the Indigenous communities of North America for the church's past treatment.
From the 1870s through the 1990s, more than 150,000 Native American children were sent to residential schools in Canada run by Catholic missionaries. The goal of these schools was to forcibly assimilate Native Americans into white culture and “Christianize” them in what the Canadian government now refers to as “cultural genocide."
A disturbing 2015 investigation found that beatings, malnutrition, and psychological abuse were rampant in these residential schools, and estimated that between 4,100 and 6,000 children died under the church's watch.
“For the deplorable conduct of those members of the Catholic Church, I ask forgiveness of the Lord,” Pope Francis begged to representatives of the Indigenous community. “And I want to tell you from my heart, that I am greatly pained.”
Can Faith and Culture Mix?
That apology started a long road of reconciliation between the Catholic Church and the Indigenous community. However, critics say the painting's removal shows that relationship is far from repaired.
After an outcry from the community, the painting has since been returned to its rightful place. However, parishioners say that simply doesn’t cut it. “You don’t call or send a letter,” said church elder Larry Brusuelas. “You face the people you have offended and offer some guarantee that this is not going to happen again. That’s the Apache way.”
So far, at least, it appears no such formal apology has been made.
It begs the question: why remove the painting in the first place? Was the Diocese unhappy with an image they saw as biblically inaccurate? If so, some question whether the Apache painting is really any different from the scores of iconic works by European artists depicting Jesus Christ with glowing white skin and blond hair.
Critics argue that if the Catholic Church truly wanted to project a historically accurate image of Jesus, they should exclusively depict him as a Middle Eastern Jewish man.
What do you make of this controversy?
93 comments
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Paul Wallace
Upon reading this, I am reminded of a conversation I had with my mother. She was a Baptist preacher's wife, and the expected bias was often present inside her. It's not that she was evil or mean, but she was quite sire she knew when something crept up that was "just wrong". Mother and I visited the home of an Hispanic family, and on the wall in their living room wall hung a picture of a Hispanic Jesus. Mom was polite while we were in the home. But, as we entered our car to drive home, she commented to me, "Did you see that picture of Jesus on the wall in there? That's not wright." I asked her what Jesus looked like. She responded that He was a Jew. I pointed out to her that Jews do not have white skin. She gave me a look of disapproval, and that was the end of that. Only, it wasn't the end. I turned that over in my head long after. It seems to me that Christ was here for everyone. If it is easier for folks, who wish to believe, to see Him through their own eyes, as being like them, where is the harm? I have a feeling that Jesus would be happy to be depicted as any culture. If the point is a personal relationship with him, why not see Him just as you see yourself...Just my opinion.
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Delayne Charles Smith
If there is not but one universe an one creator ,then why all the different religions?
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Delayne Charles Smith
The truth or the Gospel is sadly, if we look to scripture we will be mislead at best . I find it troubling that man looks to a book or a facilitator to know God. The bible is the most rewritten, revised, republished book known to mankind. And yet it is revered as a holy word or gospel of our beloved savior an creator. Are you kidding me? Are you all really serious? It's an introductory at best with some helpful insights in human psychology. The truth is constructed to maintain conformity. It's not factual in the true sense. God is real man made religion is exactly that. Dont give your life for it. It's not the eternity you seek!
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Pastor George Day
Delayne Charles Smith,
Are you related to Joseph Smith, the Mormon prophet? Your exposition of beliefs sounds very much like him.
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Pastor George Day
The Gospel, by its very nature, is Jewish but extends to all Gentiles, including them in the promise of salvation. Saation comes from the Jews, but the Great Commission extends to Samaritans, Gentiles, and Arabs.
This is a double standard. For two millennia, within the Constantinian Church, Yeshua, Myriam, and Yussuf have been portrayed as European Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, even to the point of associating the Nativity with the feast of the Sun (25 December instead of Succoth/Thanksgiving) and portraying the Lst Supper with the apostles eating floppy beard instead of matza (unleavened bread) and fish instead the Paschal Lamb.
In other words, the Gospel can and must adapt its narrative to the culture that is reached by the Grea Commission. However, when a non-Jewish culture proposes itself as legitimate over other Gentile cultures, this is no longer evangelism but heterosexual white supremacy! And since I missed the post on the Olympics Last Super, I feel that even that issue would fit here.
The Gospel is for everyone! Let the easily offended take offense - when the Bib says that it is foolish to take offense! The stupidity of the bishop is well known, like Cardinal Burke and staff!
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Kenneth Kling
Shame on me if I even suggest that I know what Jesus was up to all those years that he went missing. Some say that he spent time in Tibet learning Buddhism, or at least the Buddhist way, perhaps even Hinduism? The "Good News" here should be that the Apache Nation had an encounter with what they think might have been Jesus. If so, then they had the teachings from a man that touched the hearts and soul of folks in a much wider path than man originally suggest. No one can own God or any of the folks given to us by God. Instead of pontificating your personal beliefs, feel joy in the thought that God's directives were heard by more folks than we thought possible?
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Pastor George Day
Kenneth Kling,
Jesus was a Jew. He could not possibly have studied Buddhism. On the contrary, he probably spent his youth studying and applying the Torah. He is the only man able to keep the whole Torah with perfection.
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Karen LaBerdia
I wasn't going to post anything, but I was taught in my studies that there were men more genetically related to Custer on the opposing side than the white Europeans he invaded with. I have Apache blood matches; though I've never been there, and I've tried to find out why. I am also an artist. At an ancient site, once frequented by Apache ancestors, was discovered a type of reed endemic to and still found in marshy areas of the Kishon and Phishon Rivers of the Hebrew Horites, who were listed many places in the Bible, including Genesis. It is genetically different from cane on this continent which is considered native. A sandal was found in the area of caves used by the Apaches, whose design could easily have been borrowed from them or by them as those woven with these same reeds. There is also some proof that Apaches (or proto-Apaches, if I could use that word,) had canals to transfer water sources for the same reasons they were everywhere in Assyria, Babylon, Caanan, and elsewhere. Biblical anthropologists are saying that the more widespread a similar custom, the further back in antiquity it originated. I do not see pagan chalices and a mis-appropreated Christ figure, not at all. I love the way the artist and the congregation has preserved things so as not to be forever lost. What a shame that would be.
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John Wesley Rogers
In my father's house are many kingdoms. I go now to prepare a place for you(all).
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Terry Firehorse Silva
Being NA, and raised Catholic (no longer Catholic), I fully feel the People's pain. Most cultures, which have depictions of Christ, alter his appearance to fit the look of the majority population. White Jesus was the ONLY one I saw as a child, teen, and into my 20's. It wasn't until I started truly looking at the area of the world He lived in, that I realized he couldn't possibly have looked like that! I fully support portraying Him as a Mescalero Medicine Man ... It connects culture to faith. I wish I had seen Him portrayed that way, growing up. I wish I could have shown our children that possibility. 🤗🙏🏽🪶A'ho
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Before t appeared here, I read about this subject on NPR... and native people's sites have a lot to say too....
I'm Jewish, so not entering any Christian debates on this issue, other than to say that this painting was very important to the people of a particular parish: it embraced their culture and the message of Jesus as Messiah in an image and language they relate to and in time and place.
The Church screwed up... the Church knows it... the Church restored the painting, apologized, and thinks it's fixed it... but it never should have happened in the first place.
Those beholdin' to the generosity of their coffers and subsequent positions should be grateful that any of these people continue to participate and provide support.
A new day for some, a setting sun for others unless they wise up....
Peace..tk
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Dr. Bob Thomas
John 17:13-16 NASB95 "But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. [14] I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. [16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."
Jesus wants us to be above this kind of thing ... Focusing on Him, not on the petty differences of this world. If one painting causes someone to loose their faith, I have to ask: Where is the preacher to teach on this, to get them beyond this problem?
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Sherryl Lee Shearouse
It sounds to me like they are trying to get rid of the culture and the Native Americans.
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Rev. BH
As always.
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
Put the Painting back! its historic its Christian & has the pueblo chalices symbolizing the Eucharist. The church goers want it back. Accepting Jesus in your heart & reflecting Jesus back when you become a Christian can take the path of apaches. Jesus is the way the truth & the light. If need be, You can file in court against the bishop's decision because its your parish. Your parish stands for unity & the indigenous rights of those who came before you.
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Harvey Zeller
Demand that the diocese return the painting or leave the Catholic Church as a body of indigenous people.
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Rev. Michelle Love
I do not see how the removal of a painting is causing people to choose between faith and their culture. This painting was beautiful and was probably sold to a museum for a hefty sum.
As a side note, Jesus' appearance is never described in the Bible and people all over the world have literally recreated Him in their image because they had no photograph or painting to refer to. Seeing that Jesus is a Spanish name, the artist may have made a logical assumption that He had darker skin and hair.
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William Anthony Huffman
HE was here for ALL of us! See HIM as you want to see HIM, HE loves us all.
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Farajallah Michael Yazbek
The parishioners should remember that Jesus says to forgive others' sins so ours may be forgiven, and whosoever's sins are not forgiven, ours are retained as well. So forgiveness should be offered with gratitude for the return of the Holy Items, which are sanctified by the Holy Spirit, or Great Spirit, having been at the Altar for more than the required 40 days. And removing the Chalice and Paten that was made by the local Apache people out of love and faith, and are sanctified by the Body and Blood of Christ, was definitely out of line. The Bishop, himself, should go and visit and give his personal apology to the people of that parish for such a grievous error on his part. If this is the faith items that bring people to Christ, who are we, as pastors and clergy, to cast these items of faith aside?
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Mark R Trump
Our God is not limited. Period
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Paul Edward Nunis
After centuries of depictions of Christ as a blond haired, blue eyed, English speaking BFF of Kings and Popes...
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Daniel Lee Weiss
how is this any different than the Black, Hispanic, and Korean depictions of Jesus?
while Jesus was born in the middle east, his depiction is a cultural matter.
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Paul Andrew Breda
"But lord, we saw others who are not part of our group casting out demons in your name!"
(I can hear Jesus laughing when he said) "Who cares? If they're not against us, they're for us!"
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Dr. Bob Thomas
Luke 11:23 NASB95 He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters.
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Paul Andrew Breda
I guess I prefer Mark 9:41 - John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.” But Jesus said, “Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. For he who is not against us is for us. For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.
I guess we're left to decide? (Mark was the original Gospel, after all)
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Cheryl
I'm still looking for the comment that acknowledges that, if Jesus were to appear before any group of people anywhere in the world, He would easily be able to appear as one of their own. Which He is. Why limit him to Middle Eastern? Or to Judaism? Sure, that was where He originated from. But by becoming Christed, surely He would be able to appear however, whenever, wherever He was sent so that His message and His essence would be openly received without prejudice or bias.
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ServantOfJudgement
Sometimes I wonder if the reason people had a hard time identifying him is because he looked different to each person. Even Judas did not immediately recognize him in the garden of Gethsemane after he betrayed him. He may have actually looked different to Judas.
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Gordon Billingsley
Always amazes me how limited in scope and ability Christians imagine God to be.
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Rev. Michelle Love
It always amazes me how often people confuse Jesus for God.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
My first thought was about Pale Blond Jesus images, before I reached the end of the article where they mention that. This just outs Bishop Peter Baldacchino of the Diocese of Las Cruces as a racist.
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Eileen Mary Flores
no one's faith should be shaken by a missing painting, keep your eyes on Jesus
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Rev. BH
Try knocking over all the statues in a your church, or ripping the Stations of the Cross off the walls. Remove the icons. Spray over the Sistine Chapel's ceiling. Then ask yourself why the Indians are upset..
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Russel A. Kester
Technically, in Roman Catholicism the buildings belong to the bishop of that particular diocese. In the Episcopal church in Navajo land that was also true. I met with the Episcopal bishop of that diocese and we visited all of his churches. He was a wonderful man. I'm confident that if a church goes defunct that the property would revert to the tribe, at least that seems reasonable.
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Paul Dolk
The only Hi-Res picture of the painting I could find is here: https://www.historicsantafe.org/events/2018/5/salon-el-zagun-with-frank-graziano-native-catholicism-at-the-pueblos-mescalero-apache-nation21
It may be trending a bit more after this removal silliness.....
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Patricia Ann Gross
Peter Kwasi Sarpong, former Archbishop of the Archdiocese of Kumasi was instrumental in getting indigenous worship elements infused in the Catholic liturgy in Ghana. In an interview I had with him in 2006, he stated that, "If singing, dancing, beating of drums, and pouring of libations on the ground are how they view getting in touch with their creator, then allowing those elements in the liturgy are more likely to get them to recognize the Creator God that we know than telling them that these are evil and will place them in eternal torment." I met him during a multicultural immersion class I took in seminary, and my questions for him had to do with the acceptance of missionaries in modern African cultures. He has since retired, but has written a couple of books that include the topic. This was wrong on so many levels. Personally, I find a blond-haired blue-eyed Jesus equally offensive, but have not ordered their replacement in any buildings, as if this depiction (however historically inaccurate) allows some to feel closer to him, who am I to deny their feelings. For some, holding an article of capital punishment (i.e., a cross) provides comfort. It offen allows me to center when I need to feel a connection to Christ. The senses of sight, touch, sound, and smell are often important worship elements as it helps in allowing the physical mesh with the spiritual.
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John Alex Paxson
Humanity must respect each other's beliefs ... nobody really knows ... they just believe they know ... get it????
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Lionheart
Hello fellow Goblin. I’m not so sure I respect those that want to harm others that don’t have the same belief structure as themselves, but I think I know what you mean. 🤗
🦁❤️
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John Alex Paxson
sorry ... I did not mean belief to harm others.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
I'm not surprised. Many who call themselves "Good Christians" are VERY hateful toward indigenous individuals. Even here in the comments, there are those who are filled with hate and bigotry and are screaming that "It's their own damn fault for being heathens!"
And saying things like "If they don't like it, then they can get the hell out of the church" and other hateful things.
The Jesus of their bibles would absolutely renounce them for that behavior. He would demand their treasures be returned to them undamaged. But then again, these so-called "good christians" also believe that Jesus was a "Thin, blonde, blue-eyed european looking man."
Wrong. He was MIDDLE EASTERN in appearance. Darker skinned and more than likely with black hair and brown eyes.
But then again, if he were alive today, these same "good christians" would absolutely HATE him.
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Theresa C. Marquess
The painting is beautiful. I believe that it should be restored to its former place.
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Rolland Pitzer
Who does this bishop and priest think they are nobody knows for sure what Christ looks like but that really doesn’t matter to them it’s their way or the highway. The Native American culture is very spiritual and maybe Christians could learn something from them. I have had the great honor to be allowed to hear the songs of the Cheyanne that no white man has ever been allowed to hear something that I will never forget and cherish my entire life. I wouldn’t blame the parishioners would walk away and just let that priest and bishop be their only congregation to an empty room. To hear a story like this makes me feel sick to my soul This bishop and priest should not only be ashamed of themselves and be fired but we all know that won’t happen
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Rolland Pitzer
Who does this bishop and priest think they are nobody knows for sure what Christ looks like but that really doesn’t matter to them it’s their way or the highway. The Native American culture is very spiritual and maybe Christians could learn something from them. I have had the great honor to be allowed to hear the songs of the Cheyanne that no white man has ever been allowed to hear something that I will never forget and cherish my entire life. I wouldn’t blame the parishioners would walk away and just let that priest and bishop be their only congregation to an empty room. To hear a story like this makes me feel sick to my soul This bishop and priest should not only be ashamed of themselves and be fired but we all know that won’t happen
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Bernardo Martino
A'HO Brother ~ WELL SAID.... I am Part Huron - Abenaki - and Algonquin Native American on my Mother's side..... IMO Native Americans are More Spiritual then Any whites I have ever met.... ( and I'm 78 yrs. old ) everyone could learn a lot from them.... When Natives walk the Red Road every step they take is done in Prayer.... They pray to the Creator more in one day then most whites do in 5 years ! You must read books Written By Native Americans Like Wallace Black Elk a Holy man , and Frank Fools Crow another Holy man... Education about the real Native Americans is needed.... ....
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
I think the fault lies with the mescalero people themselves. They should have dropped that false conqueror nonsense decades ago and reverted fully back to their original beliefs. They still can and maybe this is their spirits and gods giving them the opportunity to dump the false beliefs of their conquerors and return to the old ways. The white man and his word have never been good for the first nations.
The painting was removed by the pastor, on orders from the bishop, who answers to the cardinal, who answers to the pope, who governs the small nation of vatican city. So in effect the mescalero people have submitted to a nation smaller than the area they use to tie up their horses.
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ServantOfJudgement
What, and go back to raiding the next tribe over butchering men women and children for their land, supplies and resources? Yep, native Americans chopped up each other for land and stuff, same as white guys, black guys, Asian guys and any other group that has people in it.
They're known to be one of the most viscous and violent of all North American natives. Their blood soaked and gory raids produced the man we know of as Geronimo. The "old ways" you speak of are waist deep in blood. Shucks, Geronimo was part of a subclan of Apache and they still chopped them up for beads and snail shells.
Jesus is the way, not psychopathic bloodbaths. Let the old days stay where they are.
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Deborah Lynn Strafuss
Sorry - wasn't the Spanish Inquisition a "Christian" psycopathic bloodbath? I seem to remember dismemberment and torture on a grand scale - also the "Crusades" which attacked another successful culture by demonzing it and trying to remove it and which made many "Christian" invaders rich; and witch hunts that tortured and killed many women and painted healers as evil witches, opening the doors for the dark ages of the plague. It is not Christians and Christianity that is civilized. It is the understanding of our own human nature that is transformed by love that makes us divinely human. Has not "God" the ability to appear in any form, in any color, in any race, and who are we to say He/She has not? There are many teachings of love, forgiveness, respect of the gift of life, all over the planet in many cultures and belief systems. We have amplified our experience and reporting of one remarkable appearance as a pathway to what was hope and is now self-righteousness in its most awful form. Jesus told us that we would recognize each other by our spirits, not our professions of faith and statements of beliefs. And certainly not by how many other faiths we wiped out. Please educate yourself more deeply about native cultures. It is possible you have a very limited view of them as well as a limited view of the history of Christianity upon this earth and its peoples. We, as Christians, have inherited a very tainted heritage among the story of human history and need to walk with great love, compassion and self-realization to even begin to heal our own history, let alone become the "light" we were asked to be. People are drawn to the light, not beaten, demonized, degraded, denied, tortured or legislated to it. Let's learn from our own old days and hopefully keep them in the past.
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ServantOfJudgement
Deborah, I didn't single out native Americans, I clearly tagged all of mankind for murderous rampages or at least capable when there are willing men. The Apache in no way represent the entire native American sub cultures. They(Apache)were absolutely brutal but it doesn't mean they all were. Those from my region were and are extremely peaceful. The Apache would have obliterated them if they were neighbors. I actually adopted one of the natives customs, that is the home I and my wife of 27 years live in and build together is hers. It's a sign of good faith and trust. If she doesn't like me anymore it's hers. She wouldn't get half my dear, she would get it all. I liked that about their culture.
The so-called Catholic Spanish inquisition was filled with white guys that said they were Christians. If I apply your logic to the inquisitors that claimed to be Christian, we'd find straight away they weren't Christians.
If a man says he's a fisherman but never fishes, he's not a fisherman.
At the end of the day we agree with one another and disagree with JJ. Let the old days stay where they are.
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Bernardo Martino
Amen Sister... Well Said...
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Robin Anne Hannon
Who is to say that Jesus did not appear as Apache after his resurrection? Maybe his appearance depends on the culture? I think this is really terrible to remove this picture. It wasn't harming anyone. They should put it back, that's my thought on the matter. Jesus was probably not blond nor blue eyed. Most of the culture at that time were more along the darker tones of skin and curly dark hair, semitic or Arabic type features. Either way who are we to say how Jesus would have manifested? It seems to me this is more of the same sick anti native garbage that's been going on since whites landed in America.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. MichaelRS,
Probably the Mormons would agree with you :-)
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
That painting is one of the best Jesuses I have seen. It should be kept in that church for as long as it serves the people.
Should one day an original photo be found of the "one and only real Jesus", a decision could be made as to whether to update the painting.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. MichaelRS,
Was it not a painting of St Joseph, or am I missing something?
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John Alex Paxson
Do not get upset, remember one thing, it all depends on your beliefs, (and if that's all you have been taught, your beliefs are real), in the end, it's all the same, just with a different name
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Nicholas J Page
Too little too late leave religious artefacts alone it has been there for 35 years only for it to be removed what's wrong with people.
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Rev. BH
I've never understood the pale, blue-eyed, anemic, tears-of-blood Christ. Creepy. Wasn't he a tanned, muscled fisherman in a Mediterranean country? The Native American Apache Christ is a more honest representation of a working outdoorsman than Andy Warhol.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Bishop Baldacchino seems to think it's OK to depict Jesus as a pagan Macedonian (Alexander the Great, who claimed to be descended from Greek gods) but not as a Mescalero Apache. Jesus was a Hebrew and almost certainly looked like one. Once again I see why I left that church as soon as I escaped to the wider world at age 17.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Who really knows what Christ looked like. If this is how they perceive him then that's their way. I think of him as white so there. It's beautiful artwork.
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Lionheart
Yes, I think of him with a pony tail, tattoos, and some piercings, being as he was obviously into that, and drinking a nice glass of wine being he was predisposed to turning water into a nice Merlot, or fruity Cabernet. 🍷
🦁❤️
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Thomas P. Davis
Your description of long hair does not agree with the bible. 1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. No way is he going to make something He spoke negative about.Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
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Lionheart
Yes, you are so right, Sir Thomas. I keep forgetting that people like to believe everything that is written in that book, as Gospel truth.
As for the wine, it was possibly a nice fruity white Cabernet. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Rev. MichaelRS
Here's a news flash for those that did not get the memo:
Jesus the man was not an Apache. Particularly, as a pious Jew, not an Apache medicine man with all the paganism associated with those practices.
Nor was he a light brown-haired handsome European looking chap from MGM Central Casting as depicted in many European-Centric paintings and images of him. Nor was he black as in black African.
Now, precisely what he looked like we do not know. But there is a high probability that he didn't look like any of the above. And considering where he was born and his earthly parentage there is nothing to indicate that he was anything more, or less, then an average looking Semitic/Mediterranean person that occupied the land of Judea 2000 odd years ago.
And yes, the man Jesus was a Jew. So he was not culturally Apache or European or Chinese or anything else.
And if one's belief in him as the Son of God and the Messiah was depended on the belief that he was part of that believer's culture, well, sorry to disappoint, but that's just not in the playbook.
And lastly, I know it's going to come as a shock to some, but He wasn't an Italian or Irish Catholic either.
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Grand Poobah M
Listen, you throw the term pagan around rather handily, but I'm here to inform you the Universal Life Church embraces all beliefs and cultures. We are all trying to get through this thing called life. Show compassion like jesus would. The term "pagan" was used by "the Church" to degrade non christians..
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Susan Christine Giganti
So this Bishop would want all Euro-Centric, African and Asian depictions to be taken down? Only use Michelangelo’s boyfriend in the Last Supper as a “true” depiction?
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Colleen McAllister
Leave the painting alone. We don't have an accurate depiction of Jesus. All we know is that He was a Jew. If it helps them to identify better with Christ then it is a good thing.
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Lionheart
Yes, if it helps people to identify with anything they love to believe is/was real let’s leave them to their imaginings if it gives them peace and comfort. 🤗
🦁❤️
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Mountainsage
Replace the painting, put it back and know that Christ is interpreted individually in each person’s heart and soul.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
The painting has been restored to its former place but the church members have not received an apology.
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Jina Lynn Johnson
Glad the painting was replaced. But unfortunately they probably will never receive an apology. And if they do it would not be a sincere one. We all know in our own hearts our relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ and we need to be comfortable with that relationship and not allow others to frustrate us. We should focus on that relationship whether there is a picture or not. There will come a day (I think very soon) that our bibles will be taken, pictures will be removed, all of the things we use for worship, and we will have the only one thing left that is important, and that is our relationship with the Lord. Learn your Bibles. Learn to pray properly and when all these things are gone we will not be so lost. We will be ready. God Bless you all. Have an amazing Day
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Pastor George Day
Tecla Caryl Loup,
Where does it say that the painting was restored to its original place?
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Iarrthóir Eolais
"After an outcry from the community, the painting has since been returned to its rightful place."
Under the "Can Faith and Culture Mix?" section of the article.
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Rev. MichaelRS
An Apache medicine man, with all the Pagan spiritual rituals that go along with that, and Jesus do not mix.
Here though is the quandary of how the picture was allowed to go up in the first place. But having been established for a generation or two it might have been good to leave well enough alone.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. MichaelRS,
Also, Da Vinci's Last Supper painting doesn't go with the real thing, yet no one would dare replace it!
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Lionheart
Hello fellow Goblin. You’re right that believers in mythical people, deities, fairies, and other elementals are all in our hearts. It’s nice to have these types of silly thoughts isn’t it? Thank you for your humor. 🤗
🦁❤️
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Najah P Tamargo
Najah Tamargo-USA SERIOUSLY!!!!???? After the despicable way that all Relgions have treated Native Peoples since stepping on (and stealing) THEIR land, this is an abomination! Their "culture" has kept them alive thru unspeakable times. It's a digrace!
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Daniel Gray
Dont know why you are saying anything. I am a TRUE Native American and clearly listed as such at the BIA in DC. You are no such thing as adopted people are not listed as real Native Americans.
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Daniel Gray
It is just as wrong to remove the painting as it is to try and blame a fake division between the Church and the Native Americans. The person who shoulders the blame is the pastor no one else as even he admitted that he was not told by his superiors to remove it.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Whilst I don’t think that painting shouldnt have been removed. There is no fake division between many Natives and the Christian Church, considering the church backed the conquest and eradication of their cultures. Many natives view the church as an evil invading force. I agree with them and empathize, considering a thousand years prior Christians were murdering nonbelievers and were conquering Europe. Many natives are also Christian converts. Capitulation to overwhelming odds and duress is just a survival tactic. No one can fault them for that. Though one can hope they can find their true roots again.
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Daniel Gray
stop with the lies Ruhnke. I have stated numerous times I am Native American and I would know far more about this then you ever would. So if you are going to pass on your personal Opinion, then do us a favor and actually state that it is your personal opinion and has no basis in fact.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Daniel, Please read "Missionary Conquest" by Rev. Dr. Grant Tinker, PhD who is a professor at Illif School of Theology and be enlightened on this topic. It describes the "mission" of the missionaries during the western migration in this country and how they were funded. While the church would have you believe it was evangelism, and perhaps Fr. DeSmit and the other missionaries that were involved in it also believed it. In fact it was Capitalism at its finest and a way to rope the indigenous into our capitalist system at the risk of eradication. History tells us how that turned out.
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Daniel Gray
Um sorry, but no. anyone who has to puff up their resume like he did isnt worth the time to even bother to look for the book.
I mean anyone with any sense would know that a Professor in a university must have a PHD to call themselves a "doctor" so why does he have to give a list of his supposed titles. My Sister is a PICC Nurse and thats all she identifies herself as. yet she has a list of other titles she has earned that would make her name a good 110 letters long. and she says all they need to know is I am a PICC nurse they dont need to know my life history.
So anyone who tries to puff themselves up is trying to compensate for something.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Grant Tinker is Native American, and I was only showing that he has more credibility on the topic than some Wikipedia page, so I take it you don't want to expand your knowledge. Dr. Tinker made me realize that if I am about to embark on a role as a missionary, it is important to know who is funding the mission. This book opened my eyes to that message when I was in seminary.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but no he isnt. I did a nexus-lexus search on him (think google on a massive dose or steroids) and not one Native American clan/nation/tribe has ever claimed him as one of theirs and he is not listed in the listings of the Bureau of Indian Arrairs in Washington DC as he would be required to be IF what you say is fact.
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Patricia Ann Gross
I'm sorry, but I got the first name wrong. It is George E. Tinker. My original post was from memory, and I should have looked it up before posting. I'm human, not perfect. Again, apologies.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, first congratulations on having attended seminary. Where did (or will) you serve as a missionary?
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Patricia Ann Gross
Russel, Since I was not able to go overseas with the church I was affiliated with because of the anti-American sentiment in areas with high concentrations of Muslims (primarily Africa was where I was considering), I ended up staying at home, and have spent time working case management with a non-profit that assists homeless and people at risk for homelessness. I also did chaplaincy in both a hospital and hospice for a few years. I am now doing outreach to the LGBTQIA+ communities, so my missionary work has primarily been in my own community.
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Russel A. Kester
It was wrong to remove the painting as it seemed symbolic that the Christ is to be found in all persons.
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Rev. BH
Hey, Brother. We finally agree on something! Amen.
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Russel A. Kester
Hallelujah! LOL :-)
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Lionheart
Well, that’s only if you believe in your claim, which obviously you do, Sir Russel. It’s really interesting to me on what mankind love to believe in, so thank you for your comment. 🤗
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Hallo Lionheart,
Good to see you posting after a while :-)
I'm still in Bosnia enjoying my summer break.
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Lionheart
Have fun, and stay safe, Sir George. It’s nice to see you back here . 🤗
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Bingo!
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Censoring Art. I wouldn't imagine that it would be accepted to censor a sensible depiction of someone's faith. What does it achieve really? Not sure what this does but fuel more upset . ~ Wilson, Erika