Should parents have the right to prevent their children from learning about LGBTQ+-related issues in the classroom?
That’s the question at the heart of a legal dispute out of Maryland between a coalition of religious parents and a local school district.
The parents argue that opting their children out of LGBTQ+ curriculum is a First Amendment right, but the school district says that the high volume of opt-outs would cause an overwhelming and untenable burden on school staff and resources.
When it comes to LGBTQ+ content and kids, who should have the final say: parents or schools?
To the Supreme Court
The case comes out of Montgomery County, Maryland, where a group of Muslim, Christian, and Jewish parents are asking the Supreme Court to hear their case against the Montgomery County Board of Education after a series of lower courts sided with the school district.
In the lawsuit, Mahmoud v. Taylor, the alliance of interfaith parents alleges that the school district is discriminating against the parents’ sincerely-held religious beliefs by not letting them opt-out of LGBTQ+-related instruction for their kids.
“Parents know and love their children best; that’s why all kids deserve to have their parents help them understand issues like gender identity and sexuality,” said Eric Baxter, senior counsel at Becket, the legal firm representing the parents. “The school board’s decision to cut parents out of these discussions flies in the face of parental freedom, childhood innocence, and basic human decency.”
What is the Content?
The content in question is largely aimed at grades K through 5, stemming from a new policy implemented in 2022. Per the legal filing by Becket, the new books and curriculum “champion pride parades, gender transitioning, and pronoun preferences for children.”
One book, the lawsuit alleges, “invites students to search for various images, including ‘underwear,’ ‘leather,’ ‘lip ring,’ ‘[drag] king’ and ‘[drag] queen,’” and another “invites children to ponder what it means to be ‘transgender’ or ‘non-binary.’”
Another book tells kids that adults only “guess about our gender” at birth, but that we “know ourselves best.”
Should Opt-Out be an Option?
Maryland is one of 38 states that allow parental opt-outs for health-related subjects – but the LGBTQ+-focused content is featured in a language arts class.
The school district initially allowed parents to opt their children out of those courses anyway, but later recanted after finding that “individual schools could not accommodate the growing number of opt-out requests without causing significant disruptions to the classroom environment.”
However, parents argue that it doesn’t matter if the curriculum is in health class or language arts – nor is it relevant that the school feels burdened by the large number of opt-outs – it’s still a violation of their First Amendment rights.
As Becket’s senior counsel Eric Baxter put it, “parents shouldn’t have to take a back seat to anyone when it comes to introducing their children to complex and sensitive issues around gender and sexuality.”
On the other hand, creating alternative coursework for such a large amount of students is no easy task. Is it realistic to ask a school district, which is likely already stretched thin, to essentially double their workload?
Critics also note that school is about challenging oneself and learning about the unfamiliar. Parents aren't doing their children any good by denying the reality of the LGBTQ+ community’s existence, they argue.
What do you think? Should parents have the right to opt their children out of curriculum they disagree with, including LGBTQ+ content? Who should have the final say on what kids see in school?
252 comments
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
If every newborn, merely due to the fortune, or misfortune, of birth, inherited (via, memeism) the religion of their combined parents - then everyone on Earth, today, would be existing in a science-free society. Parents, who indoctrinate their naive’ little kiddies, into one of the thousands of different religions mythologies accessible by Google, or another, are committing child abuse — socially acceptable child abuse though, as it clearly is. No youngster should be allowed to be exposed to religious brainwashing and other types of indoctrination— until they reach the age of reason — which in too many cases, isn’t reached, until one dies.
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Tanya Keller
I don't think this is age appropriate. It would be one thing to teach them about the existence of different groups of people and facts. Searching images for underwear is sexualizing people and leather and lip rings are perpetuating stereotypes. It is Halloween season, could you imagine the confusion in a young child if mom dresses like a man or dad dresses like a woman for a Halloween gathering after being given this 'education'? This is too young.
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Michael Blackwood
They are able to "opt out". Private schools are all around. If parents want their children to avoid public schools they have the power to do so. All of the bombast about this and K-12 Sex Ed is just that: bombast. Children need instruction at their level in these things. They see them in social media, on TV, and in their neighborhoods. A friend who taught first grade said it’s not unusual to see a little girl masturbating in class while reading, coloring, or like activities. The "horrible instruction" is to talk to them privately and tell them that it is a private activity not a public one.
People need to grow up and learn to parent. It is about raising children to become good citizens and members of society. It is not about raising ignorant adults who fear everything and have a tendency to yell rather than discuss.
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Raychelle Denise Irby
It's truly sickening to even hear of such a thing. Why not teach K through 12 algebra or calculus. Give them an instrument and see if they can play by ear. Teach them how to read whole books in a different language. Teach them how to code and about complex systems. Teach them something that is going to help them as they mature. We are sexual beings. Sexuality doesn't have to be taught it comes natural because God intended it to be between a husband and a wife to make more kindergartners. Good God from Zion. Trump 2024. Get this ness out of here
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Russel A. Kester
Raychelle, sex education does help prevent unintended pregnancies so that abortions are not needed. Teens will have sex. It was an issue in the colonies in the 1600's and it's still with us today. Sexuality doesn't need to be taught, that's true, but being responsible in having sex requires education. It is only a small part of the overall education of one's entire education. So, schools can make room for it in the curriculum. But there does need to be agreement by the majority of the public as to what is or isn't taught. The only way we can surmise God's intentions is to see what he has created. It seems he created humans male and female, gay and straight and bi. The last is fodder for many hours of enjoyable discussions.
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Raychelle Denise Irby
Yes Opt out should be an option for every parent nationwide. This is ridiculous. We are truly living in the last days. Where right is wrong and wrong is right. No kindergartner to the age of 12 shouldn't be taking about sexual content unless it's with their parents because of extenuating circumstances. This is really diabolical and it needs to be abolished immediately.
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Robert James Ruhnke
You who worship the golden calf and have the mark of the beast on your forehead have ZERO room to talk about what is or isn’t diabolical. Your hypocrites words are hollow. We are indeed living in the last days. The last days of your cult’s clutches on this world, zealot.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
To quote the Article: The content in question is largely aimed at grades K through 5, stemming from a new policy implemented in 2022. Per the legal filing by Becket, the new books and curriculum “champion pride parades, gender transitioning, and pronoun preferences for children.”
One book, the lawsuit alleges, “invites students to search for various images, including ‘underwear,’ ‘leather,’ ‘lip ring,’ ‘[drag] king’ and ‘[drag] queen,’” and another “invites children to ponder what it means to be ‘transgender’ or ‘non-binary.’”
I actually know the books they are bching about. There are NO books that invite kids to look for images of underwear, leather, lip-rings, drag kings and queens, etc. None. That Lawsuit, literally, uses a LIE as part of its case to try to justify this bonkers attempt at pushing hatred into the school system.
And as for "Inviting kids to ponder what it means..." That's misleading as I also read the lawsuit, since you can find it online for public reading. It's specifically worded by the schools for students to "Learn why some people are transgender or nonbinary, and some are not" And to "Accept others who are different from them, because everyone's still human"
Though in my opinion, the schools SHOULD let the parents opt their kids out, but the kids are opted out, then the classes should be at the end of the day and the students who are opted out should be allowed to go home early and let the PARENTS deal with having their kids home potentially hours earlier than they normally are, and the PARENTS can deal with the extra care time.
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Russel A. Kester
Brenda, there's no reason to release kids early as you advocate. Since so many parents are opting-out, better to have them opt-in as some here have suggested. And NO, no students K-5 should be subjected to this type of supposed education. The fact that the schools moved it from a health class to a language class shows the deceptive intention of the teachers unions and school officials. They are not operating in good faith. This is what happens when teachers are taught in colleges and universities to be advocates first and foremost. Sad commentary on teachers.
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Robert Gagnon
I seem to recall sex ed in 8th grade in the late 70's in P.E. class. Parents had to sign a waver to participate. Male and female were taught separately by their coaches. They covered the mechanics of sex, and human body function. More time was spent on venereal disease (those movies were scary) and prevention.What to look for and when to see a doctor, which back then meant telling your parents you were in trouble. They also mentioned abstinence as the only safe way to avoid all the bad stuff. Sure most of us were sexually active, but we didn't know the whole picture. I can not imagine having that class earlier then that, lot less in 1st grade.
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Warren Calvin Wall
LBGTQ++++ curriculum should be treated as religious curriculum. It has no place in public schools. Period. It is simply social engineering at its finest.
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Robert James Ruhnke
To accept others differences should be key for school. Nothing wrong with social engineering so long as the end results don’t turn people into zombies. You’re making a terrible false equivalency
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Joseph Gillespie
K to 5 is very young for this. Waiting until grade 6 when they are old enough to have developed better reasoning skills would be a better age to introduce the curriculum and then from grade 7 on make it an elective course.
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ronald
I find it appowling that children are taught such things as if it's accepted by the world it should be stopped not only does it go against most all religions. The. Time should be spent on history etc. this is nothing but indoctrinationand should be illegal in all schools
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James Riggle-Johnson
So, teaching children about reality is wrong? It doesn't matter if you accept it or not, but homosexuals are everywhere. Some studies place us at about 10% of the population. It should at least be mentioned that we exist because it’s about biology and DNA. We existed before religion and the bible. That doesn’t mean you have to teach physical sex acts, but at some point, a kid is going to see two men holding hands… just as they see a man and woman holding hands. We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it!
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Russel A. Kester
James, I was with you right up until the very end. LOL. Queer no longer is an alternative term for gay. It is another whole thing now that it's been co-opted by the far-left. Yes, kids should and I think do see gays as well as straights in life in general. It's pretty hard not to (yes, I ended that sentence with a preposition. My English teacher would be horrified). It's natural. That's perfectly healthy and acceptable. The trouble comes into play when we decide what, when, and how any such topics should be part of a school curriculum. As part of a health class teaching about sex when age appropriate, fine with acknowledging gay and straight orientations as well as male and female bodies. All factual. Stay away from the "isms" brought to us by idiot sociologists. That's pretty simple.
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James Riggle-Johnson
The last line was a call back to the late 80s and early 90s. But back to your point, it’s that the parents are never going to want us mentioned in the children's classroom regardless of age. They claim that’s their responsibility, but we both know that means teach them it’s sinful, disgusting, and never become that. It means teaching their gay children to hide and be ashamed, and their straight children that it’s okay to hate us. After all we’re disgusting sinners. That’s where we are headed if we don’t all (Left and Right) sit down and meet in the middle. Today, society is way to volatile to compromise.
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Russel A. Kester
ronald, what ages are you including in the term 'children'?
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Patti Anne Lisenbee
If a child is young enough to learn that Jebus was born from a virgin - and what that means - then a child is old enough to learn about LGBTQ+ people. A lot of children by age THREE know they are different. They need to know what that is called and what can be done about it. Parents should be the first to teach children sexuality, but it's up to teachers to continue it. A lot of discovery of sexuality comes in the environment of school. Parents and teachers should work together on the subject. Problem is, too many people out there hate LGBTQ+ because we're different than they are, or their religious sensibilities are threatened. They will not teach the truth of LGBTQ, only lies. so children will learn lies that can only be counteracted by the truth from LGBTQ people. Children will not learn empathy and acceptance that way. If we are to have an equitable world, children must learn about LGBTQ+ people and that they are just as human, just as worthy of love and acceptance as anyone else.
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Russel A. Kester
Patti, people "out their" do not hate LGB people; at least not in the Western world. They do want the rest of the letters to stop trying to indoctrinate children or do hideous performances in front of children. The only ones hating are the T's and Q's who hate straight people and many hate gay men. You are simply wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Robert Gagnon
LGB stay out of the class room for the most part. The other letters are the ones pushing this nonsense. As far as truth goes, what about the Cass report discovering that 99 out of 102 pieces of evidence their whole philosophy is based on turned out to be manufactured? That's not solid science or "truth" anyone can rely on. I'm like Joe Friday, when it comes to school, "Just the facts M'am".
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Russel A. Kester
Robert t agree. And thank you for sharing more about the Cass Report.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Wrong Gags. Don’t misrepresent data by invoking a report’s name and then list a bunch of bogus misinformation. It’s all manufacture. I see you’re more active now. Y’all will misrepresent or lie about anything to seem relaxant, won’t you gags?
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Robert Gagnon
Greater minds than yours spent four years properly investigating that evidence and found most (99%) inconclusive, inaccurate or wanting for scientific accuracy. Just because you don't like the results, makes it no less true. Seems you're one of those people that suffered as a child because you are basically weak with a big mouth and no backup. Probably kept all your participation awards with pride. That's why you support children damaging themselves, so they can suffer like you did. As if that option were available back then, you would have grasped at it the same way below average and neurodivergent kids do now. You obviously have no self respect, not being respectful to others. Maybe that was the real reason for your childhood demise, not your penile conquests.
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Michael Hunt
Wow. Maybe layoff the personal attacks and appeals to emotion. It makes you look like the less rational voice here.
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Robert Gagnon
It is all about respect, which some people have none. Thank-you for your judgment.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Gags, I have no respect for lizard men in human suits like yourself. The way you use personal attacks instead of facts is always telling of how highly ignorant and what a troll you are. So far you’ve not even come close to who I am. It’s always funny how badly you swing and miss.
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Robert Gagnon
Personal attacks? No one that lives off their parents as an adult can ever garner my respect, nor do they deserve any unless physically impaired. That says it all. LAY DOWN!
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Joe R Day
Yes, I'm a liberal. I support the rights of Adults to choose their own sexual orientation. With that said, I disagree strongly with children 'changing their orientation' because they are kids, ok? This week it's Pokeman, next week it's anime/hentai... As far as the school teaching about 'Lifestyles' of the LGBTQ? I agree with the ones who said "Is this age-appropriate teaching?" Since I have not read the source material, I cannot say if it is or not...
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Scotty W Carter
Although I respect adults right to say that they are whatever they want to be, I think it's wrong to try to get young, impressionable children to know or understand what they want to be. And it flies in the face of the beliefs of many of the parents or churches that have to fight to have sexuality related issues not taught to their children.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Oh yes, let's have more sexually ignorant people in the world.
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Russel A. Kester
Once again, the school is in the wrong. Teachers and school administrators are so impatient to push their radical ideologies into the youngest amongst us. May God in heaven damn each of them for their actions.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Oh yes. Let's not educate the children.
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Russel A. Kester
Matthew, I'm not advocating that students not be educated, just not the idiocy advocated by the current teachers and administrations in our society. They are indoctrinating not educating. Get their LGBTQ+ agenda out of sex education and STOP trying to tell prepubescent children about trans issues or asking them to identify their sexuality. Those come off their own accord when it's right for each child. DO let every kid know they can ask or tell the teacher or better a school counselor anything in private.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Russ, I swear I’m not trying to pick on you. I respond to many of your posts and comments because there are usually a lot of them, and I find the need to respond.
First and foremost, I totally agree with you that if what is stated in the article is true then it is going too far. K – 5 should not have to be recognizing under wear, leather outfits or identifying drag kings or queens, but I question the reality of this story. Are the parents really seeing the material or are they blowing it out of proportion? I’ve never read Pride Puppy, but I’m seriously thinking of buying it to form my own opinion. Have you ever read Pride Puppy, or have you seen the syllabus for this class?
I think it could be exaggerated because the same reaction is happening when a parent sees a rainbow in a classroom. Or if they hear a male teacher had a picture of their husband on their desk. These two examples do not constitute an agenda. Yet, all the rainbows and pictures of same sex couples have been removed from classrooms, while allowing pictures of opposite sex couples to be displayed. It’s about representation. Kids seeing things that look like them.
Do you remember television shows sitcoms and melodramas of perfect all white families? The always portrayed the perfect household of a dad and a mom and 2 to 4 kids. The only black representation was portrayed as a servant. And when we finally started making shows about black families, where the parents were doctors, or lawyers, did the black children begin saying, “that could be me.”
Right now, if a parent sees a show with two men holding hands they freak out. They say we’re pushing an agenda. What about the gay kid hiding in the closet who can finally look up and say, “that could be me.” We are saying it’s not okay to teach kids that we exist and that should be left up to the parent, but when one of those parents sees two men holding hands, they scream it’s disgusting. Is that what we should be teaching children? They need to learn in a positive way that we (gay people) exist. I’m not professing to know how that should be done, but it needs to be done in a respectful, non-judgmental way.
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Russel A. Kester
Comment removed by user.
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Russel A. Kester
James, I don't think you're picking on me at all. I enjoy our conversations. If you get that book please do tell us what you observe. A white family with 3.2 kids might well have represented the viewing audience back in the 50's, but that wouldn't be true today and programs must reflect this change which I think they now do. Everything must be viewed in the context of the times. Gays and lesbians do exist and are seem both in public and private. And if a school allows straight teachers to have pictures of family on a desk the gays and lesbians should too. You and I agree here. I am opposed to the T's and Q's going into the classroom and teaching them queer and gender theories and pushing them to "explore" these ideas in themselves. That inappropriate. And no student should be told that the teacher must be referred to with a personal pronoun that doesn't match that teacher's biological sex.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Russel, I’m glad you’re not taking offense by my continued responses. As for representation, the laws being passed in some states that haphazardly limit any conversations of Lesbians and Gays have led to teachers who have some sex partners removing anything that would suggest that. Including pictures of their loved ones. They were removed along with pride flags. Yet other teachers are still able to put pictures of their families on their desks because they won’t be asked “who that lady with you and your kids?”
As for being on television and on the street, we constantly have people demanding certain programs not be aired regardless of recommended age restrictions. We have people on the street screaming, and in some cases attacking gay men who decide to hold hands. It’s happening everywhere including here in California. And it’s not limited to the streets. In the past two years bullying, hostility, and fights with gay kids has more than doubled across the nation.
If what the parents in this article are saying is true then it is absolutely wrong, but again, I am not so sure it’s not blown out of proportion. As for pronouns and the other stuff… if you don’t want trans teachers in the classroom then have at it. I’m not picking up signs to protest just yet.
Until we start teaching children that there are people of all different kinds out there then they will be confused and frightened. And when people are afraid, they attack. Regardless of this article, if we let parents eliminate all mention of LGBT people in grades K – 12 then that’s where we will end up. Florida started with book bans in classrooms K – 3 and now it’s been amended to K – 12. They are also rewriting what slavery was truly about. They have attempted to stop an AP course in Black Studies. They are also trying change curriculum in State Colleges. If we forget mistakes we’ve made in the past, we are bound to repeat them.
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Russel A. Kester
Thanks James. I too am concerned about the increase of violence and intolerance against gays in general but gay kids in particular. It is my unscientific research that the rise began with the clammer from the T's and Q's; hence, my insistence that the LGB community must successfully dissociate itself from them. As long as gays are identified with them, gays will be the largest target for negative reactions to the T's and Q's. I suspect we are seeing only the beginning as studies show that young men are becoming more conservative in society as a backlash against the feminization of men in general.
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Donna Jean Kain
There are ways to help young children learn empathy and navigate acceptance of all people without getting into the details of issues they're not ready for. Answering questions appropriatey as they come up is also reasonable. That said, people should not expect public schools to promote religious beliefs to children that teach shame, inequality, hate, or inaccurate science.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Didn't you have sex ed in school? It's not like they're showing kids "Back Door Sluts 9". It's super stripped down, basic info.
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LF24
There are a few interesting things here. I'd say the first issue is just from a practical stand point, if the schools have issues with the number of students being opted out of such classes and those numbers are "overwhelming" and "burdening" them, then why are they continuing to drive these classes forward. If there is no demand for it, why push it and now try and force it? It would make perfect sense to put the energy, funds and whatever else into a program that is less controversial and helps kids grow in other ways. Second, kids in K-5 don't need to learn this stuff yet, let them be kids for Gods sake. They'll have plenty of time to go through it when they are a little older and even more time to deal with the worlds crazy ideas.
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Eris Brianna Caver Boyd
Being transgender is real, biological and not of Satan ...
... but it's a disease, a disability, and should be treated as such in the classroom.
Men and women have different brains. For a person in a male body to be born with a female brain, or a person with a female body to be born with a male brain, is a horrible experience. A person's mental expectations about their own body would be extremely skewed, and it would be a devastating lifelong situation.
Transgender people should be treated with sympathy... like with other people who experience disabilities and diseases.
But encouraging a child to be transgender would be like encouraging them to be sick with an agonizing illness. It simply shouldn't be done.
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Warren Calvin Wall
It appears that this disease is contagious as well. Perhaps we should treat it as we did tuberculosis.
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Clara Ries
We should all be educated in acceptance. We are a diverse world, we must be able to understand and relate to people who are different than we are. You may believe one way or another about LGBTQA+ or other issues, but you will be neighbors, coworkers, and friends with people who feel differently. You will likely have family members, even children with different beliefs. We all need to respect this.
If you are so bigoted as to believe that people should not understand other people's beliefs, treat people differently based on their beliefs, or withhold services from people you disagree with, you are not following Christ. It is not your concern whether someone else is going to hell in your system. You need to respect their beliefs and love them as you love yourself. I would expect them to do the same for you.
-Rev Clara
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Scotty W Carter
I realize you're not wanting to go against other people's beliefs or religion, however, the issue is not solely religious. It's basically about having children in their formative years exposed to a systemic indoctrination to become a member of the LGBTQIA+ movement.
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Michael Hunt
Teaching kids that LGBTQIA+ people exist is not indoctrinating children into being LGBTQIA+. If you mean we're teaching them to be supportive of this community, we should be.
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Russel A. Kester
Micheal, I think your comment a bit naive. What is happening in schools is not merely telling students that gays exist, it's showing them the more extreme examples. Kids do not need to see leather queens in chaps with their butt cheeks hanging out to understand the existence of gays. The current teachings are inappropriate especially for the age group suggested in this article.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Nobody is GD teaching kids in K-12 about leather chaps, Kester. You using a sub group of leather kinksters as evidence is insincere and shows you don’t know what the heck you’re about. Again. Teaching kids to accept that there is an entire community of people, the LGBTQIA+ community, who are different than them, isn’t wrong. You however pushing for them to learn solely about gays is creepy and rather groomer like behavior of you. You’re gross. 🤮 🤢 😷
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Patricia Ann Gross
Russel, we get it. You don't like drag queens or anyone on the gender-bending/varient spectrum influding transgender people. Using extreme examples like this tells me you have never seen the drag community as it works with children. The dress is no more benign than a if they were read to by a woman wearing jeans instead of a dress and more resemble Mrs. Doubtfire than leather biker. Is there even one reported case of a school or public sanctioned drag event that targeted and welcomed children where the queens performed with their bare nether regions exposed? What city? What school? They simply don't bring the gay bar burlesque shows to the schools.
If you're talking about what a child sees at a Pride parade that is different. The parents are there with them and responsible. It is not the same as a school where there is a degree of separation from the parents and the parents' perspectives and a completely different discussion.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
It's education, not indoctrination.
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Russel A. Kester
Wrong.
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Victor Allen Hawthorne
Who decides what is good and right? Humanity, the devil, or perhaps a misguided scholars opinion? Who do we trust, or are we our own best educated regarding what is moral. Morality begins in the home, parents should be able to decide the direction for the best interest of our young ones.
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Deekin224
Is this school board nuts? They're talking about kids that are under the age of 10 or 6 even. 99.9% of kids at that age are clueless to their own gender of than the words Boy/Girl. Getting into how they "feel" about themselves is something that is still foreign to them. Even the bible teaches that children age 6 and under are still in the "age of innocence". That is exactly where they need to be without some form of forced curriculum that is designed as a means of conditioning of something that they won't understand for years to come. Heck, kids won't start to look for their own identity until are the age of 12/13 and up when they begin to question every thing around them in life.
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Deekin224
Is this school board nuts? They're talking about kids that are under the age of 10 or 6 even. 99.9% of kids at that age are clueless to their own gender of than the words Boy/Girl. Getting into how they "feel" about themselves is something that is still foreign to them. Even the bible teaches that children age 6 and under are still in the "age of innocence". That is exactly where they need to be without some form of forced curriculum that is designed as a means of conditioning of something that they won't understand for years to come. Heck, kids won't start to look for their own identity until are the age of 12/13 and up when they begin to question every thing around them in life.
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Rev. Donut
Here's a note.
All the kids in my 6th grade class, all of us, ended up gong to college after High School. One guy got killed in Viet Nam by a sniper.
We were taught reading, writing and arithmetic. We had an United States of America flag in the corner of the classroom.
Nobody rode a bike in any type of parade naked.
I would not want my kid in a school where the "teacher" showed up dressed like a slob with dilated, blood shot eyes, a nose and eyebrow ring, wrapped in some foreign country's flag with pink hair, not knowing what bathroom to use.
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Michael Hunt
"I would not want my kid in a school where the "teacher" showed up dressed like a slob with dilated, blood shot eyes, a nose and eyebrow ring, wrapped in some foreign country's flag with pink hair, not knowing what bathroom to use."
Please provide the class examples of this occurring.
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Aaron Tebrinke
Honest question, is the based in science or history? If so, the separation of church and state is valid and the teaching is fine. In any case all students should have the right to express their beliefs to opt out of series of classes for something that goes against their belief system. For example, a vegan or vegetarian student should be able to write a paper about their legal equality for a passing grade in place of an examining a dead animal for a biology class.
If the teaching is about a belief system of opinions about the LGBTQ+ communities, that opens the door to teaching all the thousands of religious beliefs in schools.
Facts should be taught. Beliefs should be respected and protected, as is our right within our Constitutional representative democracy.
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Raychelle Denise Irby
I totally agree with the parents stance on this issue. Parents should be allowed to dictate what their children are exposed to especially as it relates to their sexuality. I wouldn't want my children being exposed to this diabolical heresy neither. It's confusing enough trying to learn why we are here than to be tricked into believing a boy is a girl and a girl is really a boy if they feel like that's what they identify as. The devil is a Liar. God isn't confused and neither should his creation be.
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Robert James
No, there should not be an opt-out.
Let me be clear: education of our young is not supposed to be an a-la-carte program intended to produce an individual with a customized pallet of information ordered special to meet the needs of individual parents. If the parents want that, let them educate their young by themselves. School-provided education, particularly public school, is to produce individuals with the core information and competencies to continue to operate and improve upon our society and its body of knowledge. And like it or not, it is an improvement to be aware of and tolerant/accepting of LGBTQ+ people.
The curriculum itself could stand to be reviewed, IF the allegations made about the content are correct, and the curriculum actually calls for students to perform internet searches for material irrelevant to LGBTQ+ issues -- such as lip rings, which last I knew, could be acquired by anybody.
But to claim this is a violation of the parents' religious freedom is utterly ridiculous. No one is suggesting the parents cannot belief what they wish, and practice what thy wish. But this insistence on having crushing control over what information their children are exposed to simply highlights the attitude that parents OWN their children, and that serves neither the interest of the child, nor the society they live in. If the parents can't cope with the inevitable questions their children will raise, perhaps the kids aren't the only ones in need of some education.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, why do you think that you or the school system have the right ideas of what should or shouldn't be taught? You simply want what you want to be taught regardless of the rights of other parents. These are their children and by God you nor the school system should have the right to force indoctrination in bad sociological justice warriors theories or values on the kids without consent of the tax paying parents and public. Your comments reeks of self-righteousness.
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Tony Alvin Owens
The morality of the world has slipped far below moral standards by allowing the LGBQ community to take over our entertainment, government, our industry and our schools. May is no different than a pedophile, a rapist. God did destroy Soddom and Gamora for these practices. Our civilization sadly is now heading down these same practices. God has attempted to correct this through natural means like the AIDS, Covid viruses to name a couple.
No, our kids do not need the LGBQ shoved at them in school or anywhere!
GOD said to Adam and Eve "Go forth and multiply " not Adam and Steve "
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Interesting, did you write this on your own?
Well you know, what can I say, our Gay Agenda works, right.
Of course you should realize by now that it's not our (the LGBTQ+ community) at fault but the fault of people like you, who not only demonize us with the same stupid, bigoted nonsense but, your fault for MAKING GAY BABIES.
I mean, come on, where do you think LGBTQ+ comes from? Nobody decides to become gay anymore than anyone (you) decided to become straight. As long as straight people keep making babies, gay gonna be with us.
Of course that whole AiDS thing as Dogs revenge is of course nonsense, but Covid...yeah that was a real thing from Dog, sent to kill mostly sick people, young and old. Seems your Dog shot too broad with his Covid bullet but now worries, he'll get you the next time, I'm sure
As to Adam and Steve...did you make that up? it's really clever, Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Ingenious.
BTW, any kids? Grandkids? What would you do if one of them came out as LGBTQ+? Go all biblical and stone them?
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Michael Hunt
If by take over, you mean finally be recognized as existing in society then I suppose there's a LGBTQ take over but I know that's not what you actually mean. Gay people are not pedophiles or rapists, it's primarily straight men, many who are Christians, who are more likely to commit those crimes.
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James Riggle-Johnson
In theory Sodom and Gamora was destroyed because their people were hostile to strangers, who unknowingly to them happened to be angles, and assuming they were evil and not wanting them in their city. BTW, that’s something I can see you doing to strangers.
AIDS was a cure for gays? Well, it’s interesting that despite AIDS a lot of us survived, and str8 people like yourself kept bring us into the world. For more than 10,000 years str8 people have been making gay babies. It’s not their fault of course, it just happens. With every 10 people born at least 1 of us is born. You would think if God wanted to really get rid of us, he would stop us from being born.
As for COVID being a cure to homosexuality, well God missed again. There have been over 7 million deaths related to COVID, and It affected everyone, but mostly people over the age of 50 years. PS… there is not data on how many were homosexual, but I’m willing to bet it wasn’t. In fact, I’m still here.
Since we’re talking about God, he did promise not to do that again after the Great Flood. Interestingly, that promise was represented by a rainbow. The same thing all the homo haters are now saying is EVIL and they could live without EVER seeing one again.
Finally, on the subject of pedophiles… a good portion of those are again str8 men, but let’s not leave out the clergy. How many priests were protected by the church over decades of the past two centuries? How many times did they simply move them for one place to the next so they could continue their reign of terror on unsuspecting families.
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Tye RedBear
As a nonbinary parent I would love to have a someone in a professional role teach my children about gender identity and sexuality before I do so they can learn the whole spectrum and not just my views. A lot of parents don’t even understand the topics themselves so of course they’re gonna be against it bc how dare their children learn something important to the world today that doesn’t align with the parents view. It’s not teaching children to be queer or trans or whatever, it’s to teach TOLERANCE and ACCEPTANCE of those around them who are. I find it no different than learning about the lifecycle of a plant.
xoxo your friendly neighborhood witchy nonbinary queer satanist single parent of 2 minister 🖤
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Russel A. Kester
Tye, it sounds like you too want your children to be taught your world view so grant other parents the same right.
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Guy Sutherland McLaren
Reading some of these commentors opinions is baffling, It seems some would have it made compulsory for people to be gender queer. I have been a libertarian for many years, In my book just live your life and stop interfering in others, teaching primary school children about sexual perversions does not improve their lives, it is not leaving them alone,
Primary education used to be about reading, writing and arithmetic, maybe it's time to go back to the basics. Secondary education could include this stuff, teaching 13 and 14 year olds about this stuff seems more age appropriate, they are then starting to find their nether parts a whole lot more interesting.
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Michael Hunt
Teaching kids that LGBTQ people exist isn't teaching sexual perversions.
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Robert J Cauckwell
Parents have absolute rights. Just grooming to reduce God's will. God created Eve for Adam.
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Mrknowitall
Holy Christmas Satan is everywhere ! Quit forcing our kids to learn what is wrong on all fronts. Homosexuality is a door to demonic spirit possession !
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
LOL you are adorable, I'll give you that
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Robert F. Denk Jr
Being a memeber of this ridiculous sub class of humans (LGBTQ+) I educated my child to the realities of difference from day one. No one is trying to make children Gay, what they are attempting to do is answer questions and educate children at a young age to realize and accept that LGBTQ+ people actually exist and this is who they are. They are a normal part of our world and have been since the beginning. I suppose that it is also not allowed to talk about race in these classes even though these children have questions that need to be answered. Parents should not be able to determine if children get taught about the actual reality we live in and not some fairy-tale world where everyone is just like you.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, there seems to be this underlying assumption in your comment that parents are bumbling idiots and teachers are paragons of virtue. Hardly! Parents are also well educated and many are far better educated than teachers. It is the tax payers who decide not sociologically compromised teachers. And parents are the majority of those tax payers.
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Sally Hilferty
I feel like I am very open and do not criticize people for their choices in life as I have friends from every lifestyle but it's the parents place to introduce alternative lifestyles to children just like they are not taught sex Ed until middle school this is another category that should be left to family but if family doesn't teach it then yes middle school can make a forum to teach it and just like other sensitive subjects parents can fill out the form to opt out but know by then your kids are learning via other ways. Kids are loving so seeing that a friend has 2 mommies is not going to phase them because divorced kids have mommies at other homes and they know those as extra mommies and as long as they feel loved they don't care kids are easy to please. The world is forever and always changing.
Rev Sally
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Cheryl Pettijohn
Yelling is unnecessary and invalidates your arguments.
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Steven Ferrell
The SCOTUS should side with the parents. That type of garbage teaching of alphabet lifestyle trash, should not be taught to children so young.
They are to impressionable at that age and thus to easy to confuse.
For pity sake, stop teaching that crap and stick with teaching reading, writing, math, and some science. Maybe we might see test scores going up for kids in the states instead of continuing to go down.Stop pushing satan onto children.
If it were at all possible, those parents should put their children in private schools that don’t push the alphabet lifestyle.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
steve ferral, let's work backwards. schools don't push the alphabet lifestyle, what they do teach (about that) is understanding and acceptance, two things you appear to lack. as for you inexcusable comment about "...teaching alternative lifestyle trash..." well you at least a clear on what kind of a person you are.
secondly do you feel the same way about kkkrstofascists trying to brainwash children by insisting on teaching their nonsense in schools? I hope you do because otherwise you're a hypocrite
as for test scores, parents take a lot of that responsibility, it isn't JUST left to the teachers to give a child an education, it's up to the PARENTS to work with their children, ensuring homework is done, helping them to understand their homework, making sure their children eat proper meals and get enough sleep and get to school on time. granted not all parents can provide all of that but the good parents...they try has hard as they can.
the bad parents...they blame everyone else but them (teacher's fault, school's fault, board of ed's fault, town government's fault, state government's fault, the federal government's fault). everyone's fault but that of the bad parent...amirite...steve-o
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Cheryl Pettijohn
First of all, it's not Satan. Secondly, you are the type of parent who expects schools to raise your kids.
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Zekester
Comment removed by user.
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Vanora O. Jorgensen
Amen
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Patricia Ann Gross
While I think there should be a certain amount of awareness, even in K-5, but also remember that when the school offered "sex education" for us in school, it required parental consent, even with the rudimentary and age appropriate understanding. I, however, do agree that certain aspects can be handled in an age-appropriate way without parental consent. Kids are going to find out about a classmate's two mommies or daddies without it coming from the teacher's mouth. Open discussion moderated by the teacher could help curb some of the bullying that exists when someone who is "different" shows up at school.
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Lion on the Beach
Parents, present your children a gift that will last a lifetime and endure with rewards later in life. Remove them from all public schools.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
pussycat on the litter box, I bet you are suggesting religious school, amirite?
that way one doesn't have to bother with unnecessary or uncomfortable facts and can instead insulate their children with the warm, fuzzy, ignorant cocoon of religious ignorance, denial and sanctimony.
tennessee as a state is working on just that option...well, the part about ignorance etc
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Lisa Marie Judge
It could have been the school system I went to but by 3rd grade we all ready had talks about teen pregnancy, drug addiction and alcoholism. We were given the realities of life early on about a lot of things, so understanding more about LGBT+, where it's part of the world, wouldn't be the worst thing.
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Dayne Voigt
I think parents should be allowed to parent. The government is is trying to take over the role of parent and they can't even manage themselves. Let the parents do the job God assigned to them.
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Brian Edward Colgan
If I still had young children I would certainly opt of of this LGBT propaganda nonsense that’s causing so much gender dysphoria caused by social contagion. Our schools are failing, mostly as a result of wasting time on this nonsense
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Rev Ned
I guess they’re scared of 🌈s. But… in the Bible it says that “God” made 🌈s, after the “flood”, as a sign that He’ll never do that again. So what, exactly, terrifies them? 🤔
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James Aidan
Absolutely right. I'm sure these 'concerned parents' would think it fine to attempt to indoctrinate children with religious beliefs, yet beliefs (and I am a very firm believer) is all they are. Being gay is a fact and in many parts of the world, including parts of the civilised world like the USA and EU, that can be very dangerous. This type of teaching is not to do with 'conversion' but loving acceptance.
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Vincent Van As
If children are educated to embrace tolerance and acceptance, LGBTIQ+ individuals will no longer be marginalized, bullied, or labeled with hurtful slurs. Therefore, it is essential to include thoughtful, controlled literature in schools that fosters understanding. Parents should not rely solely on religion to guide their children’s values, as religious teachings have been misused to justify violence against those who are different. Even ancient texts, like the Bible, contain passages that condone harmful actions, such as the mistreatment of women. Spirituality, however, calls for compassion, respect, and the recognition of the divine in every human being. It teaches us that love and acceptance are the true paths to unity, and ignorance cannot be excused under the guise of belief.
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James M Elliott
Or, they don't need to be exposed to mentally ill people at all. It is not normal. Only 3% of the entire world population is part of this fantasy world. That hardly makes it in any way normal.
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Vincent Van As
James M. Elliott To clarify, being LGBTIQ++ is not a sign of mental illness. It's an expression of identity, orientation, and individuality that exists naturally in the spectrum of human diversity. On the other hand, blindly adhering to the belief in an imaginary man in the sky, without evidence or reason, can be seen as a form of delusion. In some cases, such unquestioned belief may align with symptoms observed in conditions like schizophrenia, where individuals experience hallucinations or hold onto ideas disconnected from reality. It's important to distinguish between embracing one's identity, which is rooted in self-awareness and acceptance, and clinging to unfounded beliefs that can distort one's perception of the world.
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Michael Hunt
About 20-25% of the U.S. population suffers from mental illness. Being LGBTQ is not one of those mental illnesses. Should we keep children away from a quarter to a fifth of our population? Of course not. We have to learn to live together an be accepting of the way people are born as long as they are not harming someone else, such as the LGBTQ community is not harming anyone by being who they are.
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Jannetje Eleanore Van Went
This is when people use their faith to control others, you are under a faith, part of a faith or used by your God to share and spread the beauty of your faith, blasphemy if you use your God or faith to control others, your attitude has really damaged people's perspectives of religion, it is against spiritual rules to use your God or faith... you are a product of your God, a fellowship of faith and appear to have lost your way through ego when you use divine powers of God's over others. Religions had no problem when other faiths and perspectives had to have their children learn and endure a religion that wasn't natural, tribal, humanistic or even Jewish, Muslim or Buddhist in 1930-70 when migration was Heavy. They managed to keep their home and church the faith they believe and learning about others was what school was and is for, culture, science and geography will teach them these perspectives regardless, this is life, we have to get past controlling each other to see, learning is growing together. Peace❣️
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Vincent Van As
If children are educted to tolerate and accept then LGBTIQ++members will not be bulkied and called Freaks or F***. So. YES keep controlled litterature in school. Parents cannot use religion to educate their children because Religion says it is Okay to Bomb amd Murder people who do not conform. Even the Bible says it is okay to rape a virgin and buy her from the rapist. So religious beliefs cannot justify their ignorance.
Approach this from a Spiritual aspect.
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Bryce Ray Bell
School is a place for learning facts and skills for becoming an adult. Certain topics should be addressed as kids get older but education should come first not political, religious, or social values that are for adults.
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John P Maher
HEAR YE, HEAR YE, HEAR YE ( RAVEN WOLF SONG ) SING IT LOUD SING IT CLEAR !!!
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Rev Deborah Dunkle (Raven Wolf Song)
This is yet another over blown dog whistle. Children have rights too. Forcing them to follow Christian faith is not only unacceptable it is in violation of the tenants of christs teaching. Believe me children are exposed to these things in school and bullying happens due to miss information. Wouldn’t it be better to have basic understanding and acceptance rather than locker room misinformation and learning on the street. Don’t parents know that children are exposed to all kinds of stuff and that only true education can replace street misinformation??
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James Riggle-Johnson
First, I’m not so sure about the facts of this article. Has anyone actually read Pride Puppy? Does it tell in detail stories of leather men, drag queens, and trans people, or is it just a colorful story about people dressed up in costume celebrating a day that comes around every year? Then everyone bands together to find a puppy who gets lost. I’m also not sold if this course is teaching kids to find pictures of lip piercings or leather outfits. I don’t know because I haven’t looked at the curriculum and I’m hoping it’s just parents being hyperbolic.
Second, I absolutely agree that if they’re teaching anything other than what I described above then NO they shouldn’t be doing it. It’s true that there are children between the ages of 5 and 9 who begin to realize they are different but that doesn’t mean you need to teach them about sexual identity.
If a child tells a teacher they think they may be L, G, B, or T then talk with that one child privately. Ask the child if they feel comfortable talking about it with their parents, and if not, ask them why, and proceed from there. There is not a reason for all kids K – 5 to learn about the nuances of sexual or gender identities.
For the record, I am gay, and I’ve been out since the age of 19. I wasn’t able to come out sooner because it was clear people would have harassed me and/or physically attacked me. I never want a child to have that same fear because there is nothing wrong with them. Had my family known at the time I don’t think I would be alive today. That’s how bad things can get so overall, I believe children should learn people are different and that differences are a good thing.
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Betty Wilson
God gave a gift of children, we.should be more protective of our children they don't understand completely what they are doing? The schools has no right to be teaching our children about their gender. God made man Adam and women eve.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Christians are so full of hate and discrimination. What would Jesus say?
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Betty Wilson
A true Christian doesn't hate anyone, no matter what show kindness towards others. We are not born to hate its learned by others.
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arawngraalrd
There's a question? How about, why are parents opting in to Public Education? "Teach your Children The Law, and do not forget the Poor and the Fatherless," you'll learn more, that way. Home Schooling is efficient; Public School is meant to keep the Poor down.
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Dr. Darryl G Dykes
True, but not every family has a parent able to home school their children. Many can barely feed, clothe and provide a home for thier children. The extra financial burden of buying supplies and books make public education their only option.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Homeschooling is the biggest contributor to the failure of public school.
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Russel A. Kester
Elizabeth how could homeschooling have any affect on the abismal failure of public education?
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Robert James Ruhnke
By raising adults who are not ready for the world, Russell. By and large these religious home schoolers are teaching their kids to be willfully ignorant and to bully their beliefs onto the rest of us. Something Christians have been doing to others for too long now. Public schools are failing because admins are paid too much, and teachers too little. Public schools are begging defunded whilst religious private schools are receiving all the funding. There are lots of reasons for the failure. None of it has to do with anything “woke.” Woke being the stupid bogey man y’all invented to scare people into capitulation.
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James Riggle-Johnson
When you homeschool a child, they do not learn how to integrate with other people. Children need to learn how to socialize and be exposed to peers from different backgrounds. Public or private schools offer this opportunity.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Parents who “share” their homosexuality, homophobia, racism, fascism, anti-evilution, and all the other anti-this’s or anti-that’s-isms, with the tender minds of those posed to inherit their Earth; are guilty of child abuse — but such has yet to be classified as such. My denomination of the ULC thus so recognizes though; so forward your donations accordingly.
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ServantOfJudgement
You made two Freudian slips or two intentional zingers.
You called evolution evilution. Did you mean people who believe in evolution are diluted by evil?
When you said parents who share their homosexuality with their children are engaging in child abuse?
What about socialism, that's an ism. That's child abuse as well?
Are you saying anything a "parent" does is child abuse?
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
I was wondering when you would jump on this discussion!
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
I think the biggest problem is evident right here in ULC; people simply don't bother to read what the issue is about. You can see people's personal agendas at play here in the way they've responded to the blog. Left or Right there's a lot of hysteria here
The issue is a program for K - 5 about LGBTQ+, "...the new books and curriculum “champion pride parades, gender transitioning, and pronoun preferences for children."
"One book, the lawsuit alleges, “invites students to search for various images, including ‘underwear,’ ‘leather,’ ‘lip ring,’ ‘[drag] king’ and ‘[drag] queen,’” and another “invites children to ponder what it means to be ‘transgender’ or ‘non-binary.’"
Why would K - 5 need to understand these concepts? They are simply too young and it would be meaningless (and confusing) to them. There is nothing wrong with books about Johnny having two moms or Susy having two dads, many kids have only one parent and it's reassuring to kids that they are not weird or odd because of their family structure.
But trans, drag, pronouns...in kindergarten? This is just about age appropriate material in the classroom. Of course the kkkristofascists want no mention of LGBTQ+ anywhere, anytime. I'm just saying, K-5 is neither the time nor place.
Introduction to this should be saved until 6t grade, with more information as the child moves into and through high school. Sometimes even the well-meaning can be as wrong or bad as the not-well-meaning
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Dr. Darryl G Dykes
Public education has no place for sexual lifestyles indoctrination of students at any age period. Alternative lifestyles are just that alternative! Education systems need the teach reading, writing, mathematics, true world history, geography many young adults do not know where the country of Georgia is or even that there is a country of Georgia and this is very sad to know how bad the US educational system failed.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I don’t necessarily agree with this topic being taught to K- 5 kids, but LGBTQ issues are not lifestyle choices. They aren’t choices at all. You either are or you are not. Maybe that’s the first myth we need to dispense with is that it’s a choice. And it's good to start geography early in a childs education. Learn how to read a map.
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Danny D. Maynard
ALL of society must prevail or it will fail ... for all people. Allowing any groups with special interests that discriminate to have great power over minorities and individuals is not only a mortal sin but it is wrongful and hurtful!
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Roger Lee Reed
Life is short, children grow-up to fast, slow down, do not force feed babies.
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Theresa C. Marquess
I totally agree with you, Roger. I am not going to comment too much further on this subject, because I firmly believe in letting children be children. We, as parents, do not need the interference of the school system to influence our babies. By the time our kids reach puberty, they will know what they are.
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Robert James Ruhnke
which should include your nonsense religion too.
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Michael Howard Schrader
These are topics that are better for older kids, not 4 year olds. Let kids be kids and worry about political issues when they are old enough to understand.
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Danny D. Maynard
LGTBQ+ topics are not political topics! They are human rights topics and those definitely are not political.
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Michael Howard Schrader
Human rights topic are, by their very nature, political topics. Let's take a look at the Israel-Gaza conflict, for example. Hamas made an unprovoked attack on innocent people; many Palestinians support Hamas and are okay with this. So whose rights win?
Where LGTBQ+ topics are concerned, what 4 year old child really knows if they are straight or not, are the right gender or not, etc.? Not one, so it shouldn't be discussed by either side. I don't agree with the thumpers cramming their worldview down our throats, but I also don't agree with other people doing the same thing. The book shown in the post, which is recommended for 4 year olds, is a bit "in your face" and is really not appropriate at all. How about we just teach kids two simple words - "Be Nice".
We need more material where race and gender are not a part of the story. Just good stories about a diverse group that are friends and are nice to each other.
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Danny D. Maynard
No one should be advocating for violence and murder. Anyone who does is flatly wrong.
I was 5 when I knew I was Gay. It would have been better if I had known about Gayness before I was in my mid-20s. You are an example of not being nice. And you want to cover it up with a whitewashed club.
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Stacey Owens
Danny, when you was five you were lusting. You just didn't know it. You can not blame someone for not teaching you about being gay when they didn't see you as gay.
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Danny D. Maynard
Not true. I had a Lesbian aunt, my Father's Sister, and the family knew about it. I learned when I was 12 by listening in from another room. I did nto understand any of that until I was probably 25 or 26, after I came out. Yes, my family could have taught me, since there were LGBT+ people on both sides of my family, I made it a point to ensure that did not happen to my other cousins, nieces and nephews. Now we can marry! We are part of society now!
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Stacey Owens
So you were taught to desire the gay nature? So your nature was built on desire, right? In other words, you had assistance in your nature. I mean, family members pampered your desire to help you along.
The thing is, I don't see what you call as being gay as a child. I see, you were a child, that's what it was like at that time. In the process of time, it transfromed into lust and desire. So you choose what you would become in time.
For any one to say they were born as gay from the wound, is not true. A person must choose to become what they are, Just like a boy wanting to become a boy and a girl wanting to become a girl in life.
You chose who you wanted to become in life by how you were nurtured to become, just like a boy and girl.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Stacey, I hate to burst your bubble, but yes, you are born gay. It is not a choice you make later in life. You might only discover it later in life, but it was always there. Just as straight people are born straight, you cannot teach them or convince them later that they’re gay.
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Stacey Owens
James, so what your saying, in all actuallity, they are born in unbelief, right? Then they choose and determine what they will become based on the information they receive from the enviroment they live in life, right.
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James Riggle-Johnson
That is the exact opposite of what I said. You are born either gay, straight, or bi. It is not a choice. Outside influences might lead to a person hiding their gayness out of fear, but it’s still there. You cannot teach or convivence a straight person they are gay. Nor can you teach or convivence a gay person they are straight. I might teach a gay person that being gay in wrong, but that leads to a lifetime of self-hatred.
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Danny D. Maynard
Exactly. Sexuality is a generic trait, influenced by epigenetics, environment and external forces the person cannot control. Many people have been actors to achieve a personal goal that otherwise could not have been accomplished; that is why one hides one's own sexuality. There are at least 4 physical sexes in humans. What are they?
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Stacey Owens
James, its my guess you didn't choose at all in your life.
You already knew how to read, drive a car, cook, wash your self. put on cloth and shoes, at birth.
If you have any children, you probliy called them, it and you when they were born because you didn't choose a name for them.
The point is every human being has a God given ability, choice. We are born to make choices. Its what we choose in life that determines our identity.
Gays choose to be gay, just like a person chooses to be happy.
Does a baby choose to laugh when it comes out of the mother wound. No.
Get your facts right.
As it is written, Beloved, now we are children of God. It is not yet revealed what we will be; but we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him, for we will see him just as he is. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Amen.
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Michael Hunt
So when did you choose to be straight? I never chose, I just am straight.
Trying to equate "choosing your sexuality" with already knowing how to read and drive a car is a bad comparison. Obviously we all learn things, but there's certain things we know from birth, like the color of our skin.
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Stacey Owens
When did you stop trusting in Gods power and will in your life. If you can truly answer, then I'll answer your question.
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Michael Hunt
I've never trusted God's power or will in my life because I don't believe there is a deity who has such power.
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Danny D. Maynard
Your religion is teaching you falsehoods, lady!
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Danny D. Maynard
You carelessly toss around your words. All children are born without a religion. Religion is a brainwashing activity done by adults after birth to an unsuspecting innocent child.
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Stacey Owens
As I said many times before, I don't believe in religion, its man made. God created male and female, point blank. If your born either one, thats what you are born as. What you people don't understand, man creates the gay gender. God has nothing to do with what you make yourself to be. You choose who you are or who you will service. God only said, lean not to your own understanding so you would not be able to choose which way you would go in this world. He also said, take no thought for your life. Yet people choose to do it anyway. Stop blaming God for the mistake we make. If you want to chose to be a woman and your a man its the choice you make in life with out God ordering your steps. Science has nothing to do with how a person chooses. Unless your on druges.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Stacey your dogma is the only thing in this conversation which is unnatural. People were LGBTQ+ long before your silly prayers and scriptures were ever an idea. I trust that when you speak it’s an outdated echo of a bygone time in history which should remain a part of history. Stop using god as a cudgel to beat down others who don’t live by these outdated rules enforced by hatred and ignorance. You say you don’t believe in religion then quote word for word one of its many tools. You’re a hypocrite and a liar. Good day.
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Russel A. Kester
Stacey, man does not create a "gay gender." Being gay, straight, or bi are sexualities not genders. I think you mistyped when you wrote, "You choose who ... you will service." No one is blaming God for any mistakes because being gay, straight, or bi is not a mistake. All are wonderful gifts. Perhaps a little less literal interpretation of the scriptures and a little more attention to reality are a good prescription for what ails souls whose thinking is reflected in your comments.
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Stacey Owens
I'm sorry but you truly believe in a falsehood. I'll just leave you believing a lie. You truly do miss the mark. But its okay, its your choice. I'll leave you in Gods mercy and peace.
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Stacey Owens
I understand they are sexaulities and people yeiod to their esxaulities by choice. I didn't mis type what I I texted. It just wasn't understood. I understand why. I never blamed God. I never blamed anyone, I was only touching on the choices humans make. Mistakes are the result of choices, its evident in this world. The thing is, is the choice you make fruitful, thats the question.
Perhaps if you could see literally in the spirit. then you would be able to understand the scriptures true languish. Just because you understand the words doesn't mean it reflects what you understand in reality.
So, you must pay more attention to what the spirit truth has to say then what you think in the flesh (world). This is my prescription for you. Get widsom in all your getting get understanding. Praise God.
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James Riggle-Johnson
God did not write scripture. I was not taught homosexuality. I did not learn homosexuality. As I grew into puberty my attraction was not to girls it was to boys. I tried so hard not to be attracted to boys. I prayed every day that God would take this away. Do you know what, Stacey? He did not take it away. Instead, he began to show me I was who I was meant to be. There was no problem with what I was, and that I was exactly what I should be. God had to show me that because there was nobody in my life that could understand the attraction I was feeling. There were not any homosexual people in my life that could teach me what I was feeling. With your logic I should have learned to be straight given the environment I grew up in.
Also, if you don’t believe God told me being gay was okay, then you have to question all those men who wrote the bible if they were really moved by God to write it.
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Stacey Owens
Answer me this, is gay a gender created by God? If you answer the way I believe your going to answer, then, why would God say men work out with men leaving the natual use of women, be inflamed in the desire of themself doing those thing that are inappropiate? Also experiencing the error of of this way of life. Which is the rejection from people who believe this lifestyle is not fitting. In other words, in error.
Why would the God of Glory contradict His word by saying its okay to inflame yourself in you desire? Causing His word to be in error? Canceling the whole inspired word.
God is not the author of confusion.
What I understand from what your expressing to me, there was someone to lead you in the right direction. With your logic, you should have known it was an error. The person was you, because your spirit man knew your inflamed desire was not right. The I Am in you. You choice not to become a living sacrifice. Your desire to be with men was greater than the will of God. So you say, God told you it was okay.
That's interesting, because, He gave you over to yourself. Actually fulfilling His word in your life. You changed the truth of God in your mind into a lie, and served yourself more than God who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Please understand, you choose what you are when it reflects you. The world has to accept it because it's of the world. But if the image of God in man reject it, it falls under the law of the spirit of life. And if the law of the Spirirt of life is broken, the only result is destruction.
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James Riggle-Johnson
God is not the author of anything. The scripture is not written by God. Man wrote scripture and now people are running around saying it’s the WORD of GOD, but it’s not. It’s nothing more than a fairy tale. It’s all a matter of faith. I have faith that God loves me just the way I am. I have no worries about my place in heaven. Praise the Lord, Amen.
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Stacey Owens
Why praise the lord if He's not the author? What you dont realize your actually agreeing by disagreeing, why flip flop? Make up your mind?
You believe in nothing but yourself. its your religion, nothing. You only have the patient for yourself, which is nothing. And when you die you go to your god of nothing. Because what you believe is nothing.
You should be focusing on others, what contribution is your life offering, instead of defending being gay.
This is where God is at, the gift you contribute to life It produces the presents of God. Your fruitfullness.
I have many friends that live the life of being gay. I never looked at them as being gay, because to me they were people. They contributed much in their lives and my other friends never judged them because they never had to defend themselve to us.. They were just good people by what they did in life.
You on the other hand, jumped into defending what you are when you never had too. I only commented on a statment that was made about being a child.
And I qoute, "James, its my guess you didn't choose at all in your life." I just asked a question. I wasn't putting anyone down. I just believe all people are born with the nature of unbelief, and when they grow up in the process of time, they choice what they become in there lifes.
You choose to attack my belief, and my faith in God because it has know place in your life and what you believe in. To me thats darkness.
You think my faith is based on religion, but what you don't understand, its a personal relationship in a God you choose not to believe in. I'm okay with that, and understand your defence. I understand with you it's personal also. But my personal means nothing to what is personal to you,
You will be defending what you are all your life., which is sad. Instead of living your life contributing to the gift of life that lys with in you. That gift has nothing to with being gay. Its the living sacrifice you contribute. The life you contribute needs know intraduction.
You can't name it, other people do. Some people will call it a blessing, some will call it, it's from God. What ever you contribute to life, it will be glorified.
To me it's the gift of God, the I AM in me: (The Life).
When you come to understand the I AM in you then you will stop defending what you are and starte living who you are: (LIFE is). Amen.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Stacey, be careful… your Christian is showing… telling me I am nothing, and my god is nothing, and I should be focusing on others. You are making assumptions. You know nothing about me as a person. You know nothing about how I live my life or what I contribute to this world. I am not defending me being gay. I’m trying to show you that it’s not unnatural. And my reference to “praise the lord” was sarcasm. Learn not to judge others and you might move closer to Jesus Christ and God.
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Mary E Benoit
In public school every child should be welcome. The agenda should include understanding and appreciating differences as well as similarities.
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Dr. Darryl G Dykes
At PK-5 are too young to be Indoctrinated into Alternative Lifestyles, even if by some chance a child is a hormorphidite at this age they are too young to understand and most like the parents have not explained it to them. Puberty doesn't began until 6th grade children don't know their sexuality until after they puberty stage is complete. The public school system has no reason to teach children sensitive issues like this to any student at all.
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Danny D. Maynard
I knew I was Gay when I was 5 years old. So yes, children do need to know about these things. They are part of life everywhere. What makes you think there are no LGBTQ+ children?
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Rev_Shaun
Ditto, I knew I was gay before I even knew what gay was!
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James Riggle-Johnson
Thank you. So did I and it would have helped if there was someone I could talk too.
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Michael Hunt
I was certainly aware of my sexuality in 1st grade. If I'd actually been educated about it I would have been able to understand it better.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Being LGBTQ+ is not a “lifestyle” it is simply the way some people are.
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Robert Gagnon
LGB is a sexual preference, the others are identity. Life style of any kind is a conscious decision.
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Robert James Ruhnke
They’re all not straight, Gags. Sure there are heteronormative and cis Lesbians, Gays, and Bi, but they’re still part of the community whether they like it or not. A loud minority of gay and lesbians trying to gatekeep people out in order to play bigot buddies with white supremacists and theofascists isn’t going to give them brownie points they think they need to be kept out of mass graves. Life styles are influenced by the communities around them, and many leave few options outside of cis, strait, and Christian. As always gags, you’re full of it.
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Robert Gagnon
Simple factual statement used as a soap box for a maniacal tirade. No one has to join a club, nor pick a lifestyle imposed by imaginary forces.
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Robert James Ruhnke
History shows us that Christians have killed each other because they weren’t Protestant or Catholic. Especially Catholics who kill during one of their inquisitions. Choose or die has been their quiet part for a long time now. The god of the Bible may very well be imaginary but his cultists are not. Touch some grass after reading a book, gags.
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Irvin March Cutler
I don’t want perverted behaviors public period, especially to children. The youth today are mixed up enough without unholy ideas put in their heads.
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Danny D. Maynard
I agree. Religion is very unholy and needs to be purged from all of mankind, and womankind too!
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Please state what behaviors you consider “perverted?” Priests and other “religious leaders” who sexually molest babies/children/adults are perverted. And of course others who have different or no religious backgrounds are. Like parents, siblings, etc. Being a member of the LGBTQ+ community does not automatically mean they are “perverted.”
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Russel A. Kester
Elizabeth, per Google AI when I asked it who was more likely to mostest children teachers or priests:
Of the public school teachers who have sexually abused children, most are married or non-celibate, and somehow, public school teachers tend to offend in this way at a higher rate (5-7%) than Catholic priests or other clerics (4%).
Your teachers are bigger offenders than priests. Maybe it's time to lay off constantly pointing fingers at priests.
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John P Maher
IRVIN the CHILDREN of TODAY ARE MIXED UP BECAUSE of THEIR PARENTS and GOVERNMENT SCREWING UP THEIR MINDS, THEY NEED EDUCATION IN TOTAL if ITS OUT THERE LEARN ABOUT IT IF IT INTERESTS YOU !!! WHAT IS TAUGHT in SCHOOLS TODAY TOTAL B S JUST ENOUGH TO GET YOU A JOB DOING MONKEY WORK, THE FACTORY LINE, CHARLIE CHAPLIN, THE RICH KEEP PLAYING THE MONEY TUNE BUT YOU NEVER SEE THE MONEY, THEY STUMP EVERYONES EDUCATION to MONKEY WORK !!!
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Nicholas J Page
The parents need to stop telling schools how to run education classes it's up to the teachers to educate children not their parents.
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Dr. Darryl G Dykes
No this us wrong when you allow school systems to run unchecked we end up with a perverted system that indoctrinated students with subjects unfit for the school to deal with. Many teachers and educators welcome parental oversight.
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Danny D. Maynard
I know. So much of the far right gaslighting in the school systems needs to stop immediately!
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Parson Golden
Actually that should read “Bigoted Parents Demand Kids Opt Out of LGBTQ+ Curriculum”.
It is evident that hatred and Religion continue to go hand in hand in the church.
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Robert Gagnon
Just starting headline with bigoted shows a predisposition towards negativity. Getting tired of the name calling for having a different opinion. The with us or we hate you because you're a hater is getting pretty old. This is the attitude that causes half of the violence towards their own people. They don't want bullying to stop, they want to be the bullies. It's human nature at it's finest.
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Parson Golden
Calling out bigotry for what it is is not the problem.
Those who think it is are hiding their obvious motives.
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Robert Gagnon
Labels and innuendos are not productive or informative.
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Dr. Darryl G Dykes
Public schools are no place for Alternative Lifestyle education. Think of this private don't teach these subjects because parents know best. These subjects are adult subjects has nothing to do with religious beliefs. The lawsuit is facing this issue the way the court understands that is the reason that the religious beliefs are included in the suit
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Rev_Shaun
Parents do NOT know best!
For example, something like 80% of parents in the US, even those who are not religious, pointlessly and needlessly mutilate their sons within days of their birth. I am talking of course about at act of pedophilia that is circumcision.
Why is America such an angry nation - particularly its men? The above stat is your answer. Stop slashing boys and your nation will calm down a LOT!
Do parents also know best about plumbing, carpentry, building? Do they know best how to fix the gas or electrics in their houses? No, of course they don't - they leave those things to EXPERTS.
But yet, apparently, just by having what we in the UK call a 'bunk up', they suddenly become invested with generations of knowlege, gained through millions of hours of study, about the care and welfare of another human being. What rot!
Children - and this is backed by academic evidence - become self aware from the age of two. That is why you get tantrums at that age. Some call it the 'terrible twos', I prefer to call it the Terrific Twos, because it is the age when they really wake up to who they are in the world.
It is not parents who know best, but SCHOOLS staffed by teachers with qualifications up to Doctoral level. And I would rather trust them, than some back country hick who only outlook on life comes from that he has been told by the nonsense peddlars of organised religion.
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Robert Gagnon
Circumcision is a pre Christian custom performed originally by the Hebrews for hygienic purposes. It also marked a male as belonging to the tribe and is hardly pedophilia. Yes, toddlers act up because crying from birth got them food and changed and snuggles. So it only figures loud tantrums will get them material goods. An experienced parent can tell which cries mean what the child needs. Tantrums are to be delt with curtly, lest you become their servant and the child develops a lack of self restraint. Last good thing to come out of Briton is the Cass report. Just wish our scholars would recognize it's quality here in the states. When we Yanks fully absorb The reports wisdom, I will agree on teachers being as adept as you claim.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Hush Gags. You’re a troll who doesn’t actually care about kids, just people’s reactions to your sad comments. The cass report was interesting but it’s been over sensationalized for what it doesn’t say. That’s called lying, Gags. Seriously, do get help for your narcissism.
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Robert Gagnon
get a life
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Robert James Ruhnke
You first.. Obsessing over what other people do with their genitals is no way to live gags.
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Robert Gagnon
Have a home, a wife and a life. Not living off Mommy.
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Parson Golden
That would not be true.
Educating children for all the topics that are appropriate for their age is never an issue.
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Melinda Fulk
Didn't there used to be a similar fight over Sex Ed in schools? I seem to remember that - AFTER I'd graduated and had gone through a Sex Ed course. Why, oh why, do we keep going backwards!?!?!? (That was rhetorical. I already have a good idea.)
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Dr. Darryl G Dykes
The opt out of sex education in the 70's was classes that tought biological, human body functions not the actual act of intercourse. My southern baptists parents allowed us to take the classes and we did not become sex monsters on the conquery I was sacred of my girlfriend becoming pregnant because I learned in health class that is what having sex was for.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Dr. D, where did you get the idea these courses are teaching intercourse?
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Russel A. Kester
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Rev. BH
Wish I'd had the option of opting out of calculus. I got a horrible grade! Or biology where I had to dissect frogs. Ugh! How about opting out of high school all together to goof off all day!
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Wilberta M. Berry
Schools are to educate. When parents censor education they end up stifling their children's knowledge base. This does not help a child in life. Knowledge is power and limiting a child's knowledge base limits their ability to navigate their way to live successful lives. Ignorance is not bliss. It's debilitating. In order to make good decisions people need to have all information to discern the differences between good and bad decisions. They need measures of comparison.
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Patrick Kauther
At a young age, my parents exposed me to very graphic images of the world around us through magazines from different countries. They were there to explain the what's and why-for's even though we didn't really have the understanding to formulate good questions. That did come, as we were further educated, both at school and home. Having a broader base of knowledge to draw from has been an incredible asset as we ventured forth into the real world around us.
That said, the real world doesn't pull any punches. The sooner children are taught, the sooner they can create the necessary neural pathways to "connect the dots" as they enter unfamiliar territory; socially, personally, and culturally. This is key to the development of a strong mind, a strong person. It is pure foolishness to believe LACK of knowledge promotes strength.
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Brien
I have stated this before and it applies to ALL parents. The teaching of morals and beliefs is a parental right and responsibility, not the school. Parents have the right to opt their children out of classes that they disagree with. The schools are not for the teaching of morals and beliefs. If you object to the teaching of religion, there can be no complaints about parents objecting to the teaching of lifestyles. Parents, all parents, need to reclaim their parental rights that government has taken away. Just my opinion. Peace 🕊️
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James Riggle-Johnson
What happens when the parents want to opt out of history, or only certain parts of history. Like slavery was bad, yet the white supremacist wouldn’t want the child to learn that. Is that then, okay? That too is a question of morals.
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Brien
No, that is true history with lesson plans adjusted per grade level. Not a belief nor a religion nor moral lessons. You are attempting an argument where none exists. Are you a parent? The way you frame your question suggests you are not. You cannot deny the teaching of religion but then say it is ok to teach other beliefs. Children should be able to learn math, reading, history, sciences, and even trades with out bias. If I don't wish my child to be taught someone else's bias views then it is my right to say no.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Brien, then let me ask a father this question. Do you teach your child to call gay people ****, or other names? I ask this because some of these parents who opt out do teach their kids to feel disgusted with gay people. It’s becoming more prevalent in middle and high schools every year.
I’m not for teaching k – 5 to look at under wear or leather, I’m not even sure that part of the article is true. However, at some point in school children need to learn there are people who differ from them, and they need to accept that. They need to embrace rather than fear or hate the differences in other people. Would you teach your child that?
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Brien
James, much of what you say is taught in history/social studies. It is NOT taught as beliefs nor morals. Lessons are taught to allow children to exercise their minds and develop their own opinions. This process is just the natural progression of the lessons taught. If you start trying to teach specific beliefs, morals, and judgments that is when parents will stand and object. Parents have the RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY to teach their children morals and beliefs, (as in religion or life style choices), not the government. Let me clarify, if my children were forced to take bible lessons or any religious teachings I would object strongly. But in all fairness, other parents may object to teaching morals that they do not agree with. School is for teaching factual things, real history, social studies, math, reading, writing, ect. No morals, judgments, beliefs should be taught in public schools. This position makes it fair to ALL students, not just a few. I hope you can understand this. I am not advocating for any belief or moral structure.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Well, why not opt out of world history, civics, US history too, because the information might not be to their parents’ liking! What a load! Children should learn a lot of things that their parents aren’t comfortable with. Oh and well.
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Brien
Does that include indoctrinating into religion? I for one do not want religious beliefs forced upon my children. If you want other morals taught, then you must also reach religious beliefs. No thank you.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Religion of any sect should be left to the churches or in the home.
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Dr. Darryl G Dykes
This issue is not about teaching religion it is about teaching PK-5 about alternative lifestyles. They are too young to be tought such issues.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Being a member of the LGBTQ+ community is NOT a “lifestyle.” It is very simply the way some people are.
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Danny D. Maynard
No they are not. What makes you think there are no LGBTQ+ children?
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Robert Gagnon
Maybe these subjects do not belong in K-6th grade. If the schools cannot accommodate the LARGE number of parents rejection, then they shouldn't have implemented this in the first place. Just remove this unnecessary indoctrination program and back to teaching the three R's. There is no benefit to subjecting children to social and mental illness.
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Danny D. Maynard
Religious indoctrination is just brainwashing poor unsuspecting children!
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Robert Gagnon
So where is the religious indoctrination in this? Only one indoctrination is going on here, lets stay on point and deal with education not social ideologies. Poor unsuspecting children should not be brainwashed by the mentally ill brigade. And yes identity disorder is mental illness, promoting it as a norm does not diminish the malady.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Education is a product of social ideologies, Gags. It’s religious indoctrination that’s pushing for LGBTQ+ people to be categorized as mentally ill, it’s the religious indoctrination of the right pushing their religion into schools. It’s the right and maga aligned who are trying to brainwash people as they’ve been brainwashed. Your projections and accusations are more telling of your cowardice and your willingness to lie about others reeks of narcissism, Gags. Do get seek help for it.
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Robert Gagnon
Does not belong in elementary school period. Any philosophy that teaches you can change your sex is a fantasy. Reality is real and fantasy is not. Fantasy has no place in a classroom. Taking a healthy human and sentencing them to a life time of medications and amputations to affirm their fantasy is encouraging mental illness. WPATH is run by the mentally ill to impress their illness on society as a form of social evolution. Says it right in their S.O.C.It is an incurable illness, but should be delisted from DM3 because of stigma. You want the page number? To counsel a trans to face reality is considered conversion therapy and outlawed in a number of states. Yet, converting troubled kids to a life of hell, (and yes many trans call their life such) is WPATH's goal, which you support. Yes, religion is a fantasy also, requiring faith to exist. Only one of the two claim to be science. Can't claim scientific base while living in a fantasy. I think that is a contradiction.
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Robert Gagnon
Ive decided to be completely honest. In 1985 while in work release in Tampa, I was waiting for the bus at Tampa General hospital. Over twenty little kids came out to the bus stop area. The whole bunch were pail and bald, with little wool caps to cover their heads. They were from the cancer ward. These kids were so happy to be outside and some of them talked to me about a field trip they were going on. I smiled and tried not to show anything other than enthusiasm about their trip. I had to walk away after a while, using the need for a cigarette as an excuse. Fact was it tore my heart out knowing some of these kids were never leaving that hospital. Big tough convict with a reputation walked off to cry for them where they couldn't see. I'm sure they'd seen that reaction enough. That day has haunted me for 40 years. These kids just wanted to be healthy like other boys and girls. So when I see this push causing psychological and physical harm to children. I see those trusting faces. I am outraged that educated people that should know better are hurting these otherwise healthy children. And for what reason? THERE IS NO GOOD POSITIVE REASON. Let's just take their innocence and health so some adult men in dresses with PhD's can feel better about themselves? I'm sorry, but I feel nothing but rage to entertain the thought. This has nothing to do with religion, it is an overt violation of human trust. Children deserve stress free love and caring without adult ideologies. They can deal with that stuff the rest of their lives.
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Robert James Ruhnke
That’s a really long winded “never happened” story, Gags. You made several crap false equivalencies and a lot of dumb projections. You’d gladly take a child’s innocence if it meant continuing this evil religious campaign. Telling kids they’ll go to hell if they don’t believe in the Bible is what awaits them should the religious right get their way is hardly character building. You’re a liar and just another internet chat not, Gags. You defend a fantasy influenced faith which has tried to control people through violence and fear. An that’s all you’re doing now. The DSM 5 doesn’t say anything you just mentioned. Get real liar.
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Robert Gagnon
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Russel A. Kester
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. Just reading it brought tears to my eyes. I wholeheartedly agree that the medical profession along with educational institutions and the government are failing to protect our children from detestable sociological theories that leave trusting children with horrible disfigurements for life. Perhaps one day we will see these so-called doctors sent to prison; one can only hope.
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Robert Gagnon
Thank-you, it was only a few months ago when doing some soul searching I figured out why I was so passionate about the issue. Those kids aren't all of it, but they are the better part. If you read the whole SOC history, you can see where they went from mandatory 1 year of therapy to recommended therapy before chemical treatments. They conceded to trans demands and then made one president of WPATH. It truly is the inmates running the asylum. You'd think greater minds would win out.
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Danny D. Maynard
What makes you think there are no LGBTQ++ children?
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Russel A. Kester
Danny, of course there are gay, lesbian, and maybe bi kids. I was one of them. Acknowledging that simple truth is very far from trying to indoctrinate kids with progressive nonsense represented by all of those other letters which are bonkers.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Maybe bi, Russell? You gladly try to say LGB, when you need us, but then leave us out when I was 8 when I knew I was bi. The other letters were aware they were different at a young age. Gods you’re so facile. It’s ridiculous.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, you're the first person I've ever heard say that he knew he was bi at such a young age. But I've heard from many who knew whether they were attracted to men or women by that age. I do understand that it is normal for kids in that age range to "explore" both sexes to better understand themselves and others. But I don't consider that as being bi; just curious. How did you determine at such a young age that bi was your sexuality?
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Robert James Ruhnke
Because you were too busy writing them off as closeted gay, or you weren’t paying. Like so many other gays who’ve tried to erase being bi. It’s why I don’t believe you “LGB” yahoos. Using bi people as a recruiting orientation for you yours or the twisted lesbians part of your HS clique is dumb as well as obvious. It wasn’t rocket science, Kester. I was attracted to both. I saw a future where either would suffice. As I got older it evolves to not just cis gendered but trans, non binary, and gender fluid as well. You over complicate things to undermine people. That’s called gaslighting. You’re not curious, you’re fishing for ammunition to use against me. You’re a liar or you’re wrong, Kester. I haven’t forgotten, neither should you.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, now you've confused me. It seems you're saying that you are now trans, nonbinary, and gender fluid not simple bi. Did I read that correctly?
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Robert James Ruhnke
“I was attracted to both. I saw a future where either would suffice. As I got older it (it being my attraction to people) evolved to not just cis gendered but trans, non binary, and gender fluid as well.” No Kester. I said my attraction to people evolved. Not that I was anything of the above. I also said “You over complicate things to undermine people’s talking points.” Which you just did. Don’t play innocent or obtuse. In fact my attraction to men has actually dimmed in the last couple years. Gay men in my area are all straight worshiping weirdos now. Too many of them are married cheating on their wives or they’re just older chasing college age young men and trying to groom them. When their profiles say straight acting it’s enough to make one heave. Your weird comments about segregating boys from girls in education leads me to believe you’re one of the young man chasing groomers I was talking about. Remember this Kester, I’ve been around gay men long enough to know they’re as predatory as their straight counterparts. And you’ve already said some quiet parts out loud already.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, thank you for the clarification. Your comment about gay men isn't very good to say the least. Alas, you decry that gay men might appreciate the beauty of male youths. I know some women who do too. In fact, society as a whole is coming to appreciate such beauty. To wit, the last season of Elite, a Spanish show about an elite high school, showed such in scene after scene. But don't despair as the beauty of youthful females has been the subject of artists and poets for centuries, maybe even millennia. But it is too often the case that when some of us get old(er) there is a tendency to become bitter because we're no longer desirable. That's life. Practice a bit of stoicism and accept each stage of life. I will rightly ignore your other supercilious.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Stoicism is just astrology for men. You show me a man, and I’ll show you a plucked chicken. It’s a philosophy in which its own followers turn to drink or worse because they cannot handle the insane pressures it puts on one to be a level of so called super man in which most crumble underneath. Whilst we are carbon, we are not made to be metal or diamonds.
Another creepy assessment. One can appreciate beauty without coveting it so enviously and with claws that rend the coveted to traumatized bits. Appreciating beauty does not involve grooming someone younger than you to be there toy till they’re broken or your tired of them. Gay and straight men both have a problem with this. Accepting each stage of life means growing old with grace and acting one’s age which doesn’t involve preying on the young for self validation or vicarious living. Supercilious? Hah! Another accusation turned confession on your part. You act like supercilious see you next Tuesday all the time Kester. That’s a bit kettle calling the pot black. 😜
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Russel A. Kester
James, your last comment indicates there is much about stoicism which you don't know. Why your comments continue to refer to grooming is beyond me. But the one theme that I did note is your hatred of men, gay or straight.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Not hatred, Russell. An utter distrust of the concept of manhood. This alpha male nonsense which has been debunked a hundred times and has been pushed onto people just so some guy can sell someone something. I’m by no means misandrist, I have harsh criticisms of men. Yes. But someone has to hold them accountable as weirdos like you who worship the ground their feet walk on. I’m referring to your comments, Russel. Half of them are the excuses groomers use on their victims… As for stoicism, I’m aware of what it tries to achieve, and like many of the ideals which revolve around machismo and male peacocking, it rarely ends well for the those who take it seriously. Usually ground into dust all for the sake of appearances and to make their lives harder than necessary. All because some goofball believed in divine reason. Lol there’s nothing reasonable or divine about life. It just simply is. And there is far greater beauty in the world without some divine answer for it all than if there is. Look at what all the divine answers have wrought in the last 2000 of our 200’000 year long history. Bloodshed and misery at the hands of blind Christian fanatics who seek to push their idea of order onto others. You echo their sentiments whilst also being an apostate in their eyes. A gay pastor is an evil to them. The Christian right hasn’t changed their minds on that.
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Russel A. Kester
Okay, there's a lot there. I will continue to look back at your comments as we'll have future opportunities to address the different issues in upcoming articles. Your comments were clear and provide for good conversations. But this thread is already rather long. Take care..
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Stacey Owens
If your going to teach a child to do anything, teach him or her in the way they should go. Don't teach them its okay to lust.
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Danny D. Maynard
I know many Christians who lust and even give into their lust too!
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Zekester
So you're a child molester who wants children to give in to lust? That's what it sounds like
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Michael Hunt
That was quite the jump to accusing someone of being a child molester for no reason.
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Danny D. Maynard
Your conclusions must have originated from a kangaroo!
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Danny D. Maynard
We now know what is on your mind, Zekie!
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Russel A. Kester
Stacey, I think you're simply wrong. Lust, like hunger, is a natural and healthy appetite in humans. Better to teach children how to manage those feelings in appropriate ways.
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Stacey Owens
You know what kind of lust I'm speaking about, why are you playing dum? The topic is not about food, wanting a car, clothes, or candy. It's about Opting out of LGBTQ+ Curriculum. Is it important to teach young children self nature or how learning is fun? What good are we if we don't shine a light so that they can comprehend the truth rightly. Give them a chance to choose.
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Russel A. Kester
Stacey, I still don't think I quite understand your position. Are you opposing all sex education from K-12 or are you advocating sex education for 7-12, but only allowing discussion of straight sexual desires and acts (aka lust after the flesh)? In a comment above Minister JJ gave actual grades when the students should be able to understand it. Your comments still seem rather unclear.
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Stacey Owens
Russel, I'm touching on a God giving ability: choice. Not sex education, Children have to find their way in life naturally. They don't need to be exposed to socities ideas. If they need to be taught anything, teach them about the kingdom of God. So they can grow and learn what direction they want should go. We need to stop conditioning young people to the world and let God reveal the Kingdom to them.
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Colleen McAllister
Here we go again. Small children should not be taught anything but reading, writing, and arithmetic. Let them color or fingerprint. Let them play. Let them be children. Yes the parents should be able to opt out. Or better yet, let parents opt in for that type of teaching.
Funny how I managed to learn all about LGBTQ+ lifestyles without hearing anything in the classroom. My parents answered any questions I had whenever I noticed someone who was different. I was also taught that different is not a bad thing it simply is. People are simply who they are.
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Danny D. Maynard
What makes you think there are no LGBTQ+ children?
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Zekester
Children that age have not developed sexuality yet. To have sexually based mental disorders shoved down their throats is just wrong on so many levels.
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Stephanie A Willey
I was just 5 years old when I knew I was born in the wrong body. Many children are a lot more intuitive than you think ... than you can imagine.
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Russel A. Kester
Stephanie, how can anyone be born in the wrong body? It's nonsensical.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
When people say "born in the wrong body", they mean that features of the body they were born with are a hindrance to living normally and without discomfort. It's simply a poor way of expressing the concept. People are oversensitive about using the term "congenital defect" because it makes people feel belittled, but not calling a spade a spade just prevents clear comprehension.
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Russel A. Kester
Ari, thanks for the response, but it still remains to be explained why one would feel, should we say, that they were born with the wrong equipment. Wouldn't they have to know how it felt to be the opposite sex? I am a man and have no idea what it feels like to be in a woman's body; none. And neither does a woman know what it feels like to be in a man's body. Therefore, I hold to my claim that such statements are nonsensical. However, I will accept that one can suffer from a psychological condition which makes them feel a sense of disassociation with their body as there's ample evidence for that, but not that they would feel any more at home in a body of the opposite sex which can never actually happen anyway. It can only be made to appear similar on the outside but not genetically, not the brain, and not psychologically. Good response though.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Russel, you have no idea what a trans person is going through other than what you’ve read that reinforces you take on the subject. Chromosomes cannot be changed, but hormones can, and the physical can also be changed. It’s been happening for almost 100 years. Just because you disapprove and find articles that support your opinion doesn't make it so. There are just as many articles and studies that support the other side of the argument.
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Robert Gagnon
No, but I know what every human being feels about having to play the cards they were delt. Most accept what they have to work with and pursue a life of happiness to some degree. Only a real woman can experience a woman's life because they did not choose it, but live it as best they can. A true psychologist should help trans accept reality and enjoy the life they are given. Encouraging hatred of self and masking reality with drugs and surgery is like putting a band-aide on an open wound. Can't treat an illness by ignoring it or allowing it to spread. By the way a mans orgasm is totally different than a womans', and never will anyone experience what the other does. It's a shame the medical boards allowed the mentally ill to promote this madness in the first place. So many could learn to be happy with proper mental care.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It’s not an illness, Gags. Trans hasn’t been considered a mental illness for a while now. It’s a shame you don’t get help for your narcissism. You’d be a lot less of a pain to others. You’re 8 rabid rats in a skin suit on the internet, how would you know what being a real man is about anyway? It’s certainly not gaslighting an entire community and trashing them with outdated viewpoints.
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Robert Gagnon
Delisted from DM3 because of stigma say's it right in the SOC. Excuse used was mental illness stigma made it hard for trans to get a job adding to their distress. Once again, normalizing a mental illness does not make it go away, if so their would be no trans, just people with a fetish. By the way you're the last person to mansplain anyone. Courage is by your own words not in your nature.
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Robert James Ruhnke
I wasn’t mansplaining. You’ve already normalized your narcissism, gags. Get your own Mental health in check before you comment on others. Good thing the DSM 5 has already debunked your crap claim. You wouldn’t know what courage is, Gags. You’re too busy being a keyboard bully to know.
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Robert Gagnon
Not so just ignore the SOC which is your bible. You wouldn't last a day in places I've been.
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Danny D. Maynard
When did you achieve a doctorate in genetics and surgery?
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Sadie Tan
I think you mean finger PAINT there Colleen, maybe you didn’t learn writing huh.
im always watching
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James Riggle-Johnson
Colleen, bravo for your parents teaching you that people are different and there is nothing wrong with that. However, if they taught you that it’s a lifestyle, they were wrong. You might have benefited from more in depth teachings.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Why should this even begin to be a subject. There's nothing to discuss. Keep it out of the schools. Teach our past history. The civil war and the 2 WWs. Something worth learning and where we came from. And don't forget about the Native Americans
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Danny D. Maynard
LGBTQ+ history is a part of US History!
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Russel A. Kester
Not the way lefties teach it, Danny. Good of these parents for standing up the such insanity.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Russel, I’m not sure you can take what the article is saying as complete facts. I think some of the parents might be embellishing what’s being taught. But let’s say it’s true, then they definitely should not be teaching to identify leather apparel. That’s a bit ridiculous.
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John P Maher
DID NOT " GOD " SAY TO SOME IDIOT THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED " EQUAL " ??? I PRESUME " GOD " MEANT ALL HUMAN BEINGS ??? MAYBE HE "GOD " WAS DRINKING TOO MUCH WINE @ THE DEVINE SCHPEEL ??? RELIGION HAS BECOME TOTALLY USELESS and FULL of LIES, TOO, TOO POLITICIZED, BUY THE CHARLITANS KNOWN AS " GODS " SERVANTS THE CHURCHES ! WORSE PERSONS LIKE tRUMP and THE G O Pigs !!!
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James Mounts
Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were wise and powerful men, but they were not God and no doubt would be upset to be called thus.
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Dr. Darryl G Dykes
The reason for including religious beliefs in the lawsuit is so there is a grounds for the lawsuit that the court understands. It simply states that under the Constitution Admendment 1 we have the right not have religious beliefs dismissed. The court ruling will only be on was the Constitutional rights violated of the person bringing the issue before the court. The lawsuit will not affirm any religion at all.
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ServantOfJudgement
John, that was the people of the United States stating what you said in a letter to the King of England commonly known as The Declaration of Independence.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Sadly, I have to agree with the kkkristofascists and islamofascists. Children K - 5 don't need to search for lip rings or drag queens, this is clearly junior/senior high school level material and should be dealt with matter-or-factly and not made into silly little games.
Things like Johnny has two daddys or Annie has two moms is sufficient
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Cheryl Pettijohn
I have to agree with you. This is content that should move up to middle school. I do think that some books should be in their reading assignments that talk about the wide variety of families. Including two mom's or 2 dad's as well as single parent households and blended families. the 1950's version that says you must have a Mom and dad and you must be white to be valid is unacceptable.
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, I too agree with you.
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Danielle Bruns
I watched a baby come out of a woman’s vagina as part of my 5th grade sex education in the early 2000s, with opt-out included for our class (as always). This was in FL. I think my brain could have handled learning about leather and lip rings at that age if I could handle witnessing childbirth. Children are rarely as frail as we like to treat them.
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John P Maher
PERFECT ANSWER FATHER J J !!!
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Human sexuality has no place in public schools. It is the responsibility of parents to do the job of teaching family values and determine when the appropriate time for “the talk” is. Public K12 schools should avoid politics, race, religion and any adult topics and stick to read’n, write’n, and arithmetic.
There are, however, cultural universals that could be taught by example in the course of normal living and human interaction such as being kind to one another and when it is appropriate: letting students know that being helpful to one another is a virtue.
When we take our children to the grocery store the parent doesn’t go around identifying sexual preferences of other customers. If it is inappropriate in public. It should also be inappropriate in public schools.
How on earth, did sexual preferences that were once private information ever become some sort of “human right” let alone considered appropriate to discuss with children in K12 schools? Such a debased culture will lead to chaos and conflict that is already in progress in America and will only get worse if the values of decorum are not restored.