Anyone who argues that men and women are fully equal must not study religion very closely. While most contemporary religious views support equality of the sexes, there still exist plenty of traditional religious sects and organizations which teach otherwise. In some cases, this unequal treatment is justified with statements such as "women need to be protected for their own good". In others, they are sheltered in a supposed effort to preserve the "moral integrity" of society. No matter the justification, these perverse attitudes and policies are hardly distinguishable from outright oppression. We'll cover a few different examples, varying in nature and extremity, but all of which illustrate the troublesome relationship between women and religion.
Burkas
Perhaps the most recognized symbol of religious oppression is the Islamic women's head covering known as the burka. Billed as a sign of modesty and an expression of the Islamic religious faith, the burka (along with other variations, such as the hijab, abaya, and niqab) are representative of fundamental Islam's antiquated beliefs regarding women and women's rights. While some women don them willingly, these coverings symbolize women's subservience to men in many Islamic societies. Levels of enforcement vary from region to region in Islamic countries, but the reasoning is always the same: women must cover their bodies so that men are not tempted by them. Born from this same twisted ideology are the disturbing stories of women in Islamic countries being raped and then sent to prison for "having sex out of wedlock". Such attitudes underscore a misogynistic idea inherent in many fundamental religious interpretations that men cannot be expected to control their desires, and so women must dress accordingly. If they don't, then they only have themselves to blame if something happens.
NYC Pool
To offer a less extreme example, you may have heard about the recent controversy surrounding a public pool in New York City which offers women's only hours. Among those who took advantage of these sessions were Orthodox Jewish women, whose religion doesn't allow them to wear swimsuits in the presence of men. Some people say that the pool should be allowed to continue women's only hours, because otherwise the Jewish women wouldn't be permitted to swim at all. Others say that this policy discriminates against men and thus should be abolished. Either way, one thing is clear: if Orthodox Judaism wasn't so restrictive about women showing their bodies, this wouldn't be an issue.
Quiverfull
Then there is the so-called "Quiverfull" movement. This Christian fundamentalist ideology is maybe best described as "radically pro-life". The movement has gained significant notoriety recently thanks to the Duggar family, Quiverfull adherents who starred in the TLC show 19 Kids and Counting. The group's name originates from Psalm 127, which compares children to "arrows" and says, "Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them." While it sounds harmless enough, the values espoused by Quiverfull adherents are highly patriarchal and misogynistic.
Vyckie Garrison, a former follower of the movement who now speaks out against it, provides some concerning insight. According to Garrison, not only do Quiverfull followers entirely oppose birth control, but the wife is "obligated to provide sex to her husband on demand". The natural result is a woman who is constantly pregnant, with a family that grows incessantly. Under this ultra-traditional religious interpretation, the woman's sole purpose is to please her husband, give birth to children, and raise them.
Israeli Rabbi
Finally, you may have heard about the ultra-Orthodox rabbi in Israel who decided to ban girls over the age of five from riding bicycles. His reasoning? That such behavior is "provocative" to men. The rabbi insists the ban simply seeks to "protect the modesty" of young girls. This line of thinking is inherently flawed, however. If men are so barbaric that they cannot control themselves upon the sight of a woman acting a certain way in public, then clearly they are the problem. In this sense, women do not need protection from immodesty what they need is protection from licentious men. But instead, we again see the underlying theme that women's behavior should be regulated in order to cater to men.
A Reversible Trend?
While it bears repeating that these cases represent minority groups within the larger faith, it's unsettling that there seems to be a pattern of oppression across gender lines within numerous religions. Women are expected to cover themselves in public, behave in certain ways, or take on a limited societal role in order to please the patriarchal religious leadership. Extremists are quick to write off their treatment of women as a necessary function of society. This absurd rationale begs the question: why must the onus be on women to accommodate the shortcomings of men? It's clearly a breach of equality, and one has to wonder how sustainable this ideology will be going forward.
What do you think? Is it possible for these religious groups to change? Will women ever receive equal treatment?
112 comments
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c5092
As a student, we have the same responsibility even if you are men or women. We should take our advantages because we have our duty or deal with something or of having control over someone. Yes, we have different cultures, religion and position. But if we think about it we are here to show to everyone to prove that every one of us has capability to do work. I mean, the people who are in the high position, have no right to control ourselves. It is a very disturbing characteristic which it does not help us to have confidence in ourselves that we can do something without controlling us. We, people must help each other because we are created in a unique way and equal. We are free in this world.
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Br. Karsten Johansson
Its always spoken of, but rarely acted upon - sooner or later we won't be able to stuff kids into little binary boxes and dictate what they do and don't do within that box. The younger generation seem to get it more so than their elders, so it is going to happen regardless. The World-Wide-Everything probably has something to do with that. It's hard to force someone to be a certain way when they have direct access to every possibility they can imagine, and decide for themselves what suits them best.
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Gregg
It is easy for us to honestly admit to barbaric ideology and practice. God loves all of creation, women and men. We each must be responsible for our reverence toward God's creation. We must act respectfully to our fellow beings in how we present ourselves, because we do reap what we sow. It is just common sense that we would give others what we would expect for ourselves, equal rights, freedoms. We have freedoms, but must pay the price for our actions. Love thy neighbor as thyself is the new commandment given us by Jesus Christ. His life and death ushered in a New Testament which dispelled barbaric law with much promise for the future. If we could only be willing to try to live by his teachings, we would cease to obey and instead be reverent. Obedience is when we feel obligated to behave because it is what we are told. Reverence is when we act with honor, respect, and dignity because we understand its full benefit to all of life. It's easy once we are willing to be honest. God bless!
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Br. Karsten Johansson
Hilary Clinton is a powerful woman. If she were to ride by on a bicycle, I just might be able to control myself.
All joking aside, and I do apologize for putting that image in your mind, these thoughts are instilled in girls at such a young age that they often cannot see it any other way. Then they justify wearing a burka saying it is their choice, when in reality, it is their conditioned state.
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Saibhreas
Conditioning is huge, it is the reason why education of women is limited. The smaller the view, the fewer the opportunities, the more dependent women have to be. Many societies control women by keeping their minds dull and vistas limited. Consequently they make bad choices because the better choice is not anywhere near their vision, they can't see a better way.
Conversely, young boys get advantages not realizing that they are getting special benefits, After a while they are inculcated into the idea of privilege. and it changes things. The boy of 5 would never think his sister of 6 is less than him, but the boy of 15 has lived with-- and expects privileges, and unconsciously learns he deserves more than his sister. And as they grow the cycle continues.
We have to work out a respectful way to break the cycle And there in lies the ruff, is it governments place to social engineer? If no, is it governments place to restrict my rights over my body? Does the government protect the status quo or protect the rights of individuals who don't fit what we consider the traditional norms of male and female?
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Shilo
About Women Ministers and The Church, When Jesus said to both Mary's "Go and Tell my disciples", the same word "Go" was the same word He used to tell the disciples to "Go" into all the world. The Message He told the Women to tell them, "That Jesus was dead, but had risen from the dead, and is live!" is the same message the disciples preached as THE MESSAGE of GOOD NEWS (Gospel). So, in my mind, Women were entrusted with the Ministry of the Gospel first!
Simple as that, however people's biases get in the way, but women today, have no need to ask person of men to do anything. God is the head of mankind, He is the Groom, the Husband, that covers woman, just as He does men.
Someone cultures can't see the truth past their pride of life, and position & Title.
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gary
men cut the grass and mow the yard women bear children, do the wash and dishes
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Rhonda
hmmm I cut the grass and mow the yard and have the children and do the dishes. and my husband likes to cook and helps do laundry. roles are what u want them to be.
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Frank McGrath
Wouldn't it be a great place to live if we all just followed the golden rule?
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John Owens
It certainly would.
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Saibhreas
I follow the platinum rule. It says treat others the way they want to be treated. the golden rule is self centerd, it presumes the way I want to be treated is better than the way you want to be treated. It has a good intentions, but has caused a lot of harm with different cultural interactions. When confused ask someone how he or she would like to be treated and follow up to the best of your ability, and you will be surprised how things go.
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Amir Harris-De La Nuez
I completely agree with you on the prostitution issue.
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John Owens
I fervently love the women in my life. I try to teach them about things many females are not taught-- about machinery, weapons, self-defense, carpentry, how to deal with bullies, etc. Not that I want them to do those things, but I want them to understand them, so that other men cannot so easily take advantage of them. When I was young, gas stations had attendants that pumped the gasoline. When I married, my wife did not know how to pump gasoline. The stations were all moving to self-serve, so I had to teach her to pump her own gasoline and check her own oil. I didn't mind doing it for her, but there were too many times we were not in the same place.
Biblically, a man should REVERENCE his wife. Nowadays, the definitions of manly behavior and feminine behavior have been blurred considerably, and I accept that. I personally think a "man-bun" looks sissy, but that doesn't mean the man who wears it is a sissy. Some women are very athletic, even fierce, but they are still women.
It is obvious, whether you believe in God or not, that women have been engineered differently than men, and it begins in the womb, and the differences increase as she matures into adulthood. Men are generally made for hard work and physical stamina, and women are made for bearing and raising children. They have the ovaries, the womb, the lactating breasts. That is not to say that their roles are inferior or set in stone, only that they are biologically engineered to perform some functions that men are not, and they are wonderfully and beautifully put together.
When my wife and I are together, I open the car door for her. Some people consider that chauvinistic, but we don't care. She is a woman, married to a man, and she wants me to behave like a man. It is a very simple act, but it subliminally conveys a LOT of meaning: I am hers, she is mine. If you threaten her or harm her, I will defend her without fear or mercy. If she is ill, I will care for her, and vice-versa. Hopefully it also says to younger couples, this is how we did it back in the day, before the lines differentiating men from women were so blurred.
In our church, the roles of women are more or less traditional. They do not preach or lead prayers. It is acceptable but rare for them to lead songs. They often do special music. If there is discussion, they are active in the discussion. They are active in organizing church events and visitation. Without them there would be no church. Most men would not go to church if there were no women. Just being honest. The church itself is supposed to be the bride of Christ, who gave His life for His bride. He is the groom, and the bride honors Him. He also loves His bride and will do anything for Her. She worships Him, and He reverences her. That is the way a marriage is supposed to be. "A man should love his wife as if she were his own body." and, "A man should love his wife as Christ loved the Church."
The biggest threat that I see to women's rights are pimps, madams, and their customers who routinely use women as slaves. I hear of very little organized protest or resistance to this kind of oppression. It is usually focused at some political or religious group, other than Islam (who routinely practice slavery, child-marriage, and consider women as property). I would like to financially support a group who disarms and disbands slavers, and generally discourages wife-beating, child-beating, and pedophilia, OUTSIDE the government (who appears to me to do nothing but lip-service to prevent them).
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Brian Balke
Much of what is presented here is not limited to religion - modesty in dress and control of women's bodies has a long cultural pedigree. This should not be surprising: perhaps the most powerful biological urge we have inherited from our Darwinian past is the procreative urge. Religion is not the source of the difficulty we have in managing it, nor is it surprising that people with principally secular motives (property inheritance, for example) often project their program into the religious sphere.
But I think that there's also a talking past the point of the religious proscriptions. Let me offer a definition: taking religion as management of our spirituality, and spirituality as the negotiation of the boundaries between the "I" and the "we," the proscriptions have to do with preventing our spiritual landscape from being polluted by lust.
Our society tends to facilitate that pollution in two ways: by celebrating adolescent sexual license, and by limiting our opportunities to express self-love. Intercourse is often the only time that we are allowed to really enjoy our bodies. Even in exercise, our culture has so objectified the outcomes of that effort (both in terms of our self-image and competition) that we rarely enjoy sports.
Here's an experience: I was doing child-care at a battered woman's shelter, and the children liked to have me push them on the swing. One night, I was pushing a seven-year-old on the swing, and began to get a distinct feeling of sexual arousal. I stopped pushing the swing and said "I would appreciate it if you would keep your energy HERE" - placing my hands on her heart - "and HERE" - putting my hands on either side of here cranium. The sexual feelings evaporated, and when I began pushing her again, she shook her head and laughed with joy.
You see, she was managing me in the same way that her mother managed her abusive father. I was mature enough to recognize that and demonstrate that a caring man encourages women to manifest other potentials.
So I tend to side with the Rabbi here: little girls should cover their bodies. I also understand why some women in orthodox religions wish to avoid revealing their bodies to lust-filled men. On the other side, I have explained to my sons how to manage unwanted attentions coming from women.
As science currently offers us no explanation or tools for managing our spirituality (except drugs, unfortunately), we need religion. I would also agree that we need religion to do better that command prohibition. But I don't think that the spiritual aspect of the problem can be ignored. I recommend the chakra model in the vedantic traditions.
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Ron. L
"Here’s an experience: I was doing child-care at a battered woman’s shelter, and the children liked to have me push them on the swing. One night, I was pushing a seven-year-old on the swing, and began to get a distinct feeling of sexual arousal.... So I tend to side with the Rabbi here: little girls should cover their bodies."
Okay, WHAT? There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.
You can't be serious...
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Brian Balke
Yes, I am serious. Don't you every touch children that aren't yours? Did I make any sexually suggestive comments to her? Did I act sexually to her?
She obviously wasn't conscious of what she was doing, and I did nothing that made her conscious of the sexual nature of the interaction. I placed it firmly in the realm of play, and she was happy that I did.
I think that the problem is on your end.
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Ron. L
MY end? You basically just admitted to getting turned on by pushing a little girl on a swing. And then you went on to say little girls should cover up so men like you don't get horny looking at them. I really hope that you misspoke... You look really bad in this situation.
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Kathryn
This individual needs to be removed from his place of employment and reported to the authorities. He is working with the most vulnerable of children aka 'pedophile paradise'. Isn't there a way to track this sicko??
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Brian Balke
Both you and Ron L. are projecting your fear of spiritual experience onto my offering.
Of course it is disturbing: this was a battered women's shelter. This little girl lived in fear of her father, and had to reach deep into her personality to discover means to placate him. The means she discovered was the one used by her mother.
If you haven't associated with people that live in that space of fear, you don't understand what happens to distort their personalities. As one that has, that my undoing of that distortion is disturbing to you and considered needing of censure is simply bizarre.
You also represent the insanity of modern society that was instituted by Sigmund Freud. A number of his female patients described their experience of spiritual molestation. Freud decided that they were manipulating him, and cast this whole area of human experience into a hole from which is desperately needs to be rescued.
The OP continues in Freud's vein. I know a Muslim women that won't shake the hands of a male acquaintance. It has nothing to do with "shame of her body." It has to do with maintenance of her spiritual integrity.
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Ron L.
I'm going to go ahead and ignore that long string of meaningless babble. You're worse than Trump when it comes to saying nothing with many words.
One thing did jump out to me -- your "spiritual experience". Seriously, if you think getting turned on by a little girl is at all "spiritual", please seek some professional help. I would NEVER let you near my kids. EVER.
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Amir Harris-De La Nuez
This is reprehensible and you need to be reported and removed. Your narrative is disturbing.
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Kathryn
Agreed. This man is a sexual predator. The fact that he is working with children is abhorrent.
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John Owens
I also agree. I have raised a daughter, now have a grand-daughter, and played a large role in raising a niece. I have never become aroused by a pre-pubescent child, nor is there any natural explanation to do so. They do not produce the pheromones to arouse a male at that age, so pedophilia has to be an unnatural attraction. At the same time, when dealing with anyone else's child, or any adult for that matter, I make sure any physical contact is beyond reproach or suspicion.
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John Owens
You're going about this the wrong way, Kathryn. You offer to trade pics of kids with him and get his email. THEN track him. I'm kidding, of course. You probably wouldn't do that, because it would throw suspicion at you, but that would be one way to track him.
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Rhonda
brian is a danger to children...I was molested as a child and men like him who get...aroused.. by innocent children should be put away. Freuds theories have been diputed in modern therapies ...dude....you have issues and should not be on this site or in this conversation!!!
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John Owens
Freud was a freak. His ramblings fast-forwarded mankind's descent into depravity, yet he still has followers.
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Kathleen Baird
Tell me... how good are the chances of my being acquitted of any crime if I (a woman) walked into a luxury car dealership or upscale jewellery store and stole a car or a diamond? Couldn't I use the defense that it was advertised and presented so enticingly that it is not MY fault, but THEIR fault for making it look desirable. Yet, people (usually men) say it is the woman's fault if she is sexually assaulted, because they thought she was dressed in a manner they found provocative. IT IS NOT THE CLOTHES THAT MATTER! Most men find the idea of rape reprehensible. Those religious leaders who blame the woman in a rape case, and feel men must be "protected" from lusting after a woman, are saying that men do not need to have self control because a "decent" woman is covered up and "protected" at home. Religion should never be a reason to subjugate half the people. Unfortunately, the major world Faiths continue to believe women & men do NOT deserve equal treatment.
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Ron. L
Which begs the question: why are women religious at all? In the age of technology, surely they can learn there is an alternative.
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Pastor Stephen
Women brings us or most precious gift, life itself,and so is as precious as life.Without women, there is no mankind,love and respect her always. Stephen
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Dennis E. Loucks
I've read a lot of comments about women taking responsibility and taking their rights back. That is only half of the solution. MEN! We need to take responsibility and give women their rights back. Women need to be covered to protect them from lustful men? Bah! If that's the issue then men who can't control their lust need to be censured and removed from the general population. Men respect and adore the ladies. Protect them with your life for she is your mother and your sister. There is a very disturbing lack of men taking responsibility for their actions in these outdated views. Yes I am my brothers keeper, and I say love and respect women.
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Kevin Magovney
Women deserve the same rights and protections as men. They are more then just vehicles for reproduction and sexual obedience . They are children of God who deserve our love and respect not our dominance and submission .
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tomarseneault
Point 1) It has been said in others posts but I will reiterate it here: A woman may dress a certain way or wear makeup/hair in a certain way to be "Appreciated" on how she looks. This is way different to being "Harassed" on how she looks. Men have to control there own impulses its not up to the woman, she has her own impulses to control (Just wait until the annual fireman calendar to come out for proof).
Point 2) In Islam the only admonishment is for both men and women to dress modestly, it's more custom then religion for their weird rules on covering up. Sharia Law is a mix of custom and Quran.
Point 3) Many of the rules regarding women have logical roots. Back in the Prophets days, women were poorly educated (sadly still happening today) but Muhammad was a big proponent of equality, his own wife was high standing in Islam and worked outside of the home. The rule where a women got 1/3 of a man concerning inheritance was because all the money a man got was dedicated to the family while a women's money was here own to do as she wishes (admittedly she has to obey her husband, not sure how that works). Also the rule of having to consult men when entering into a contract or other business matters was because as stated above at the time women were poorly educated and at the time needed help to understand such things, should not an issue today.
Point 4) If it was not for men, Islam would be a model of how to treat women.
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Sally
Will it change? I fail to understand why women don't just LEAVE. Women have been the backbone of church congregations doing much of the work. Leave and the patriarchal churches will crumble. Find a spirituality that celebrates YOU.
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Sharon LaVerda
I wondered that too. I have decided that they like the power (one actually said to me "power and control, I love power and control") and doing the backbone work of the church is the only power they get there or at home. I believe you are right, but as long as power of any kind is perceived by these sad individuals, it's not going to happen. We need to find a church for them, where God is not perceived as just male and they can be the backbone there.
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M.E.Holt C.N.
All of these issues have always been active and always will be. Religion has no place in a women's right to carry or abort. None. It's a decision between the woman,her doctor, and God. It's simply not our business. All the people yelling, banging fists, and threatening are wasting time and energy that is quit frankly not there business. I'll say it again, It's NOT your life or business. Yes, Pray. You have NO right to intimidate anyone seeking medical help. You don't know the story behind a very difficult decision. The topic about swimming pool access. How ridiculous can this get. Rules for swim hours have been in effect forever. DAH. Go to another pool. Men ogling will never end. I believe women should dress respectful. That is to say cover your butt and boobs up. I don't like seeing girls and women in the grocery store barely dressed and exposing rolls of fat. Men who look like they'll give birth any minute. We have an obese society and who says it's okay? It's ugly, dangerous, and a major health risk. Most of these people have a defeated attitude, or think they look just fine, or a death wish. Yes. You should care about how you are dressed when you leave the house. It's called respect for yourself. Stop wining and start searching for the way to recover your health. Your will feel so much better, look better, live better. Stop being so lazy or in a rut, change your life style. Find help. Good luck.
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Nikolas
M.H. - You started off great, but really got sidetracked. We're not talking about obesity in America. We're talking about women being oppressed all over the world.
"Stop being so lazy or in a rut, change your life style." ???? Tell that to the women in Saudi Arabia or in areas under control of ISIS. They can do nothing for risk of being raped/killed. WE are the ones who must do something to help. WE are the "lazy" ones you speak of.
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Rev paul
I'm posting this just to say this women don't get the same pay for doing the same job as men men can go out in public topless women can not until these things change a women will be treated as a equal to men
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hindu2u
In the great religion Hinduism females are give lots of respect and are considered the queen of the home a man build a house and the women makes a home.
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Ron. L
Really? A quick google search found this:
The Hindu Woman:
The Hindu Woman has no right to divorce her husband.
She has no property or inheritance rights.
Choice of partner is limited because she can only marry within her own caste; moreover her horoscope must match that of the intending bridegroom/family.
The family of the girl has to offer an enormous dowry to the bridegroom/family.
If her husband dies she should commit Sati (being cremated with her dead husband). Since today's law forbids Sati, society mainly punishes her in other "holy" ways (see below).
She cannot remarry.
The widow is considered to be a curse and must not be seen in public. She cannot wear jewelry or colourful clothes. (She should not even take part in her children's marriage!)
How is that respect?
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William C Millhouse
To me, the gods and goddesses appear in whatever form they want. They are both sexless and male and female at the same time
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John Owens
Boy, that's generic enough.
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Amir Harris-De La Nuez
Yes, this is not generic but true duality.
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John Owens
To me, it's like saying, "I believe in blah blah blah mumble murmur."
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Amir Harris-De La Nuez
Disrespectful much? Well, I'm going to do the same thing I see others do when I don't see what their talking about, wait for you to get it. This behavior is disgracefully typical of someone with chauvinism as a practice. I cannot believe a man who considers himself a minister said blah blah blah...
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John Owens
Come on. "the gods and goddesses appear in whatever form they want. They are both sexless and male and female at the same time". It's all kind of nebulous. Like space aliens or something. Not even a capital G. Personally, I only recognize one, and He only has two personages, Father and Son, identical in appearance. To me it's like saying, I don't know what I worship, or, I worship anything, depending on my mood. I cannot comprehend it. Maybe that is a failing on my part, but God has always been real to me, always spoken of in the masculine, and not the substance of dreams or fantasies.
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John Owens
Anyway, what's so bad about blah, blah, blah?
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Amir Harris-De La Nuez
Jesse Owens, "always spoken of in the masculine," by whom? Men, no one else has been allowed to have a voice. Your "Oh, Come on.." Is the same paltry beginning given to every woman who has been raped emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually; often in the name of this male voice you swear you hear.
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Amir Harris-De La Nuez
Which until everyone experiences it on a mass level, it is a dreamlike state. Human beings have the audacity to take allegory and use that to shape God Conciousness. Constantly applying our flesh to an unknowable and Divine concept as Intelligent Creative Involvement. Or design.
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John Owens
Visitations from God, any god, real or imaginary, to large groups of people, are extremely rare, and do not happen in each generation. I'm not sure what you were saying in the last sentence.
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John Owens
Not Jesse. Jesse Owens was a famous black athlete who embarrassed Adolph Hitler at the Olympic Games in Munich before WW2. I'm John, not famous, not black, not an athlete, although his hometown is about an hour and a half by car or motorcycle from my home.
But yes, I refer to God, the Father, and the Son, Jesus, and the scriptures we use always refer to them in the masculine. That is partially because of the languages in which the scriptures were written. Like Spanish, if you refer to your children, the word is the same as for "sons". If you actually refer to your daughter, then the word is "daughter". Only rarely does one say (in Spanish) my sons and daughters. The word for son is "hijo" and for daughter is "hija". If you only have daughters you say, "hijas". If you have sons and daughters, you say, "hijos," which includes sons and daughters. The ancient Hebrew and Greek did the same. "Children" of Israel was written, "Sons" of Israel. Regardless of the reason why, neither God the Father, nor the Son, nor any of the angels was ever recorded or referred to as feminine, and if they ever appeared unto humans, they appeared as masculine, never feminine. Not once.
That is not an insult to women. That same God said that rapists should be stoned to death, and that women should be treated with honor, and Jesus said that the men's hearts were hard toward their women. I have one or two long posts here which detail my reverence for women. I also respect the women in my life greatly, and would defend them with my life. Nothing can anger me more than oppressing women. Please don't attribute motivations to me where none have been stated or implied. I am both humble and kind, a loving father and husband, and not evil. I just cannot understand someone believing in multiple amorphous deities which are sexless AND hermaphroditic.
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Saibhreas
WOW! Really WOW! Mr. Owens you realize most of the biblical literature disregards women as active players, or leaders because it was a way to keep women in the realm of property, not equals.
I also I hope you understand that the Notion of God as father & Son, and holy spirit (angel of death) was decided at the council of Nicea (325 AD)
(The Nicene creed, sound familiar). This was a truly masterful political move by the emperor Constantine to codify Christianity so that he could use it to unite an empire across cultural lines, specifically the cross could become the emblem. It was a very political gathering of bishops from different factions of early Christianity all claiming to have the best belief system. There were winners and loses. The winners got to plug the trinity, and gain territory. Other winners were from north Africa that believed in the mother goddess, hence the adoption of the Virgin Mary as sacred deity for them. The losers were scientist and mathematicians. Now the bishops had the direct line to god and were the ones to interpret the reason for things happening. The great libraries were destroyed. The mysteries of divine intervention took over science and reasoning. Sacred talisman (bones of saints, wood from the cross, thorns from the crown) began to hold power over weather, crops war and much more. It was the dawn of the dark age. It was not just the institutionalization of the subjugation of women, but of free thought as well. This is when all books of the bible written chronicling women as power brokers, and integral to the survival of different tribes, as well as their involvement with Jesus, was removed from the cannon. And only the writings of the approved bishops chroniclers were given credence to continue in the cannon.Thirdly the notion of original sin was a discussion in a later Nicean council in which St. Augustine contributed a lot of what we now consider the cannon.Most people don't realize what we consider the bible was really written in the early 4th and 5th century. The old testament has mutated quite a bit over time from an oral tradition to being codified on papyrus It was a mutable document of its times. It is a very important political, and cultural document with much historical importance, But by no means is it fact. It has been influential throughout history, and unfortunately been a clarion call for much destruction over centuries. It has also influenced many good things as a codification of fair treatment in civil society (as fair as it could be for the social norms of the times). But it is not fact.
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John Owens
Saib, All of the things you mentioned are good reasons not to practice Catholicism, while admitting their influence over the world for the last two millennia. Constantine and the Nicene council changed the Sabbath and the Holy Days, and the way we count time--SEPTember WAS the seventh month, OCTOber the eigth, NOVember the ninth, DECember the tenth, canonized pagan celebrations and the Catholic church over the centuries took all of the pagan pantheon deities and changed them to "saints". The statue of "Saint Peter" in Rome is the pagan statue of Jupiter, supposedly with a different head carved for it. I have friends I dearly love who are Catholics, but I have no love for their church or their beliefs. Now, Constantine and the cardinals certainly influenced the scriptures erroneously called "New Testament," and most likely some versions of the Law and the Prophets, but they did not affect the Septuagint, Targum of Jonathan, the Syriac Book, or any of the versions written in the older languages. Even Jerome, when tasked with compiling the Vulgate, requested to go to the original manuscripts in their original languages, but the people in charge made him use Latin translations of them to compile the Vulgate Bible. My point being, that the oldest of scriptures still refer to God Almighty as male, and as a husband (as in the Prophet He commanded to marry two harlots, Aholah and Aholibah, who represented the House of Israel and the House of Judah), and in Isaiah, where the Saviour was prophesied, the prophet said, "His name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, PRINCE of peace, Everlasting FATHER..."
I do not believe at all in the subjugation of women. Even in the Commandments, God said, "Honour thy father and thy mother," here specifically referring to honoring the female parent. Even the Saviour obeyed His mother. People are going to believe what they want to believe, but the reason Scripture was written at all was to prevent different people from "interpreting" it into meaninglessness. God is a Father, but perhaps His kind of love is represented by Father and Mother, because Yeshua the Saviour cried out, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, How oft would I have gathered the under my wings, as a mother hen, but ye would not."
So, I realize a lot of things, but like it or not, God is a Father, whose love is represented in humans by a father who provides and protects, and a mother who nurtures and protects. And that's the way it is.
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Sharon LaVerda
To say that God is male is a human way of finding a definition for God. To say God is male is limiting God. We as human cannot fathom God. The people who made the human defining of God were male and so it went forward as such. Those who wrote the bible were male, and so it went forward as such. They chose to ignore their own writings about Sophia, the female spirit of God. God is all, not our determination of what God is.
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John Owens
I cannot say with any certitude that God the Father is male, or that God the Son is male. I only know what the scriptures say. Now God (the Father and the Son) did say, "Let us make man in OUR image," and it turns out, He made us male and female. This incidentally shows that God is dual, and not triple. It may be that a true prophet is such a sexist that he writes "Father" or "Son" or "He" or "Him" instead of "she, her, hers", knowing that it is untrue. I rather doubt it, SINCE WE ARE DEALING WITH A HOLY PROPHET, but it may be possible. I think it at LEAST equally possible that the prophets wrote He and Him because that's the way GOD inspired them to write it. The being we mistakenly call Jesus (we should say Joshua), was MALE, and He referred to His FATHER in Heaven. I have no earthly idea about this Sophia to whom you refer, perhaps you can enlighten me, since the Holy Scriptures do not mention her, and I'm just a layman who studies scripture and don't really have a lot time to indulge in random studies about deities.
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Rhonda
huh???? very confusing.
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catpersontoo
If you are to believe in the creation of "everything" by a God, the very description of God is both female and male, which in my mind means all things equal. It is "man's" conceit that he takes power over women's rights to exist at all with rules that he, the man, made up, and continuously breaks all the time. We should be helping each other to grow as humans, and not suppress one another with archaic rules that do not apply in this day and time. We should move forward, not backwards, live in the present, not the past. Our future depends on us as humans to continue to treat each other as equals, otherwise we are doomed as a species.
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WarriorMaiden
Women gave away their power and rights and Men were happy to receive it and returned for whats left...Until Women decide not to be treated this way and take back what belongs to them...the status quo will NEVER change...!!
So as far as I'm concerned get to work, support those putting up and fighting the cause or harden up and shut up because whining (has and will not) get you anywhere...!!!
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Carla Robinson
Truth! This world is falling apart under patriarchy. It is long past time for the return of the matriarchy.
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Gregg
It is the ego which pits one against another, we are all beings, time is overdue for a beingarchy.
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John Owens
Oh yes. All of our problems will be solved if we just let the ladies be in charge.
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hsw
Carla, yes. Absolutely.
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Rubin maxwell
Oh,ok...
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Rubin maxwell
All you people go read Genesis as in Holy Bible after their disobedience God covered them.There is no subsurvant here he covered them both equally and appropriately . Whom do you serve God our creator or man. Male and female have a responsibility accountability o clothe dress themselves accordingly as demonstrated by God himself.One should seek to do Gods will not contentious do your "self will" self will is what caused the downfall of the man in the beginning! What book are you reading and studying.Exactually what are you teaching?What is your standard of measure or do you have one.Or are you creating your own so as man will be pleased?...
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hsw
What I'm not reading is the bible. This isn't a Christian church so I'm continually surprised to find people bible-thumping here.
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rsmith52
While I'm not a big fan of Bible thumping, this is a UNIVERSAL church, ie all inclusive. Let Rubin thump all he wants. We are all...
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hsw
Thumping is one thing - read both the words and the tone - he's not just thumping - he's insisting that we all believe as he believe. That truly has no place here.
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John Owens
H, You say that about Rubin but in the process you are trying to censor him, hence, you are insisting we NOT believe like him, which in essence means, you are insisting that we believe like YOU believe. I haven't even read what Rubin wrote, but now that I read your post, I'll have to read it. You are trying to exclude Christians here. That is at least as wrong as thumping, so that also has no place here.
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hsw
John I'm not - I'm just suggesting that opinions can be expressed without insisting that theirs, or yours, or mine, is the only one worth considering.
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John Owens
It seemed he was asking on what authority you base your views, and stating what the Bible (admittedly ancient, but well-accepted for millennia as an authority) states. None of us is capable of forcing anyone to believe a certain way. All we can do is look down on one another for believing differently, since it is so difficult to reason together.
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Carla Robinson
Spot on
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Carla Robinson
And I mean, spot on to hsw
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Lee
I think all they covered with is a fig leaf. I will take it!
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Rev paul
Lee you are correct
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Kathryn
Perhaps the problem is with the interviewer and not the interviewee. Unless the female applicants held a gun to their heads, these 'gentlemen' made the hiring decision. Just because there wasn't enough blood going to their brains at the time of the interview, doesn't make it a gender issue. It's a maturity issue, but again, let's blame the women. Grow up, boys.
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mega
Women shouldn't have to cover up to avoid giving disgusting men impure thoughts these days due to laws protecting us against acts such as rape. However i do believe that too many women showing cleavage during an interview are getting an infair advantage over qualified candidates. Not just more qualified but simply QUALIFIED candidates. Therefore covering up in that sense seems totally logical.
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mega
I'd like to add an example of this... i knew an attractive female with no work experience and less education than me. She asked me if i knew of any jobs. I told her about a job i was applying for at a finacial planning firm. I was rejected due to not enough education but imensly shocked to see a photo of her working there a couple of weeks later. I learned that not long after that she had been seduced by her boss. This wouldn't have happened had she have been properly covered during the interview. And yes she is the type of female that likes flopping her money makers around and no doubt did so in order to land a job she wasn't qualified for.
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hsw
This sounds a like like blaming the woman for the actions of the man, which you already said no one should have to do. It also assumes that women aren't doing the hiring, which in most cases I assure you is not the case. I walked into one interview where the men had already gathered to interview an attractive female, and when she saw me she immediately pulled her jacket together. Yes, women are still trying this tactic, and yes, it still works in some cases - but in the end, would you really have wanted to work for "that guy" with his disgusting impure thoughts anyway?
But I guess my question goes back to the original premise - why should I "cover up" because some man somewhere is going to get a cheap thrill? I don't dress for anything other than the occasion - there are a lot of very feminine blouses and short skirts that are completely professional, and I'm not sure why someone shouldn't choose to wear them. It might even weed out those people you wouldn't want to work for, but in any case, their "impure" thoughts shouldn't be my problem.
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John Owens
I'm with you here, H. I think clothing should be MOSTLY for protection from the elements, fit the occasions, and for utility (pockets, tool-pouches, etc.). Of course I think the lower portion of the torso should be covered, mostly for reasons of sanitation, but also modesty, but how much is covered should pretty much be up to the individual doing the covering. Of course, parents should have a good deal of say in what their children wear, up to the time the children are ready to move out, but men in general, should not be able to dictate what women wear, or vice-versa. You can't go by what turns perverted men on, because they might get excited by a pile of cow manure with a wagon-track through it. I'd say 9 times out of ten, when a guy is lusting after every skirt that passes, he has a woman at home who is not getting the attention she deserves, and she can easily outperform him, so he should be trying to satisfy her instead of his ego.
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benjamin willis
when we talk about how women are covered how do you think the mother of dressed when our society degrade our women in movies using them as sex symbols having women with a thong in their behind and telling them to twerk! for little girls can copy we need to straighten this society before we can talk about someonelse jesus was thee example lets be the example how did mary the mother of jesus dress?
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Janice
Some men will rape women even if they are covered up head to toe!! It has been proven time and time again. And time and time again the women gets punish. A father raped his daughter and SHE was killed for tempting her farther. WHAT!!! She was only 15.
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Rev paul
Your so right janice
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Joe Fanning
Well, my comment below is just redundant to the way most of us 'enlightened' people feel - Religion is merely a ridiculous source of evil.
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Kathryn
Satan's greatest weapon: oppressive religions and those who follow blindly.
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Susan
Amen!
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Amir Harris-De La Nuez
Yes!
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ginnysbreadbasket
Well said. Reminds me of C. S. Lewis' The Screwtape Letters. https://fpatheatre.com/production/the-screwtape-letters/ Just think of all the 'witches' burned by the Church under the pretext of heresy. Sometimes it seems as if humanity has learned nothing at all over the course of recorded history.
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Susan
Let us hope that this can change. Many, if not most, religious factions are still vehemently opposed to female equality. Catholicism, along with many other Christian denominations, still deny women the priesthood. Girls are still accused of provoking men into sexual assault by the way they dress. Interestingly enough, I personally experienced absolute vitriol from some other ministers here when I responded to a blog post about God's gender. I think that as long as religion is used to control people, it will remain displeasing to God,
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Lynn Fitzsimmons
Regarding this article on "equality between men and women" will always be present until women stand up together and take control of their own identity and sexual issue. In the Bible it states that a rib from Adam was taken to create a partner for Adam, who was Ever, in order he would not be alone and the reason for the difference in the sexes is the purpose to reproduce and to have children.
Throughout the centuries man has always looked upon a woman as a sexual object and women have allowed this to happen and to continue. Women today must stand up and take responsibility for who they are, what they say, how they act, and how they want to be perceived! It truly takes being "100% responsibility" to be a woman and if the women of today are NOT STRONG ENOUGH to accept being "100% responsible", for themselves, and to be an example for others, then the equality of the sexes will never change and men will always look at women as sexual objects and women will be oppressed!
Those women dressing provocatively are lowering themselves to the oppressed mentality of the men in order to play the game of sexuality to get what they want! Is that the kind of woman you want to be? Taking "100% responsibility" is a difficult thing to do but if we as women can commit to accept our responsibility to be a strong woman in everyway; in the way we act and present ourselves, in the way we dress in order to be perceived in a certain way as confident, strong intelligent women, in the way we walk, stand, and to reflect ourselves to be confident, intelligent, and in control of who we are and represent, in the way we speak, take on the role of the appropriate person you want others to see you as, and to treat you as such! Women must take on a 100% responsibility in order men understand the role we take on, the respect that is required by us, and to show that we are strong enough to be "man's equal"! Women today cannot be afraid but have the courage to take on this huge responsibility and to support each other as responsible human beings being equal to men.
When women realize that they have the power to stand up and show that they can be equal to men without playing games and without the manipulations, then, and only then, will men begin to realize the equality of women.
As a woman are you strong enough to take on this huge responsibility of being "!00% responsible" and being appropriate in the right situations? As a woman I own my own business, meet men in management positions on an equal platform, and yet still love being a lady who loves to be treated and respected as a lady when appropriate; after all, we are all sexual beings and have equal needs. I do believe we can function as equals but the power lies in the woman herself to be strong enough to accept the responsibility in being an equal to a man in appropriate situations.
What do you think and how do you perceive my commons on this equality issue?-
Rhonda
well said Lynn... Oppression is not the fault of religion or men or government or...blah blah blah...Women...STAND UP...Take your own power and responsibility. As a midwife I have watch women ...give up...their own power to hospitals and doctors...whos fault is that? I also know women of about every economic and racial and sexual orientation category. I have been in abusive relationships. There is plenty of help out there and when we finally stop allowing the victimization and stand up and support eachother as people...not just women. (There are many good men out there who support womens rights) THen there may be real change. I was right in the middle of the womens movement years ago...ive been with Goddess worshipping groups...which by the way often want o subjugate men. Equality is a right and has to be earned. My observation today is that men...especially middle class white men are looked at as evil and the cause of all womens problems. THe only way there is inequality or abuse ...is if it is allowed. There are some women...and men and children...that have been so victimized they have no self worth and cant climb out tof the abusive situation...that's where we ALL come in to help. I know women who have 12 children...because they wanted that many. I had 5 babies...because I didn't want 6. We al are worthwhile in Gods' eyes...in fact as a daughter of a loving Father...and Mother in Heaven...we are loved so very much....and our equal counterparts...men, are also. We are children of deity and caring and loving one another is our biggest and first responsibility. There will always be groups and individual's who want o subjugate others and who are abusive. It is not just women who are not treated fairly. I worked a t ahospital who wouldn't hire a male nurse...because he was a man!!!! Be the change you want to see. Be strong and powerful. Sisters...but be loving and fair to others...including men and religion in the process.
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Ruberita Bandihai
Yes! Responsibility is very important and everyone has to responsible to one self first. How can we expect others to be responsible for us if we don't know how to that to ourselves.
As someone broke this word down for me, and since then I have had a totally different understanding and respect to the word R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y, She said, it means "The ability to respond" When you know when, how, where, to whom......., you are responding to, you're in the now and you will know that responding is not overreacting, which is what we do most of the time.
Other thing we have to know as women is that it's not them against us, we are in this together and we are all responsible of what has been going on in this planet for centuries and we are all suffering. I don't think there is any man who doesn't feel the pain of being pointed at, called all these names, most of them would like to do what is right and most of them do as much as they know how.
And we shouldn't forget the "law of attraction", as we keep saying all the bad things about the male and male about female, what do you think we are attracting..... Underneath all that is nothing but F E A R.
These men were babies, boys before and us as mothers were the ones bringing them up, in most cases, ( and this is not because we were enslaved to feed these babies, it's an honor to take on this part of creating and nurturing the being) until we recognize this as so, we will continue to bring up irresponsible men and women and we will never break this chain.
As a human family we need to learn together our strength as a male and as a female, and show up fully in our strength, and know that this is not a competition.
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Lynn Fitzsimmons
Being responsible is taking control of one's one power. The power to be who we want to be, what we say, what we do and what happens around us with the effects of our power! Being responsible is taking 100% control of our own power and the effects it has on others. Once you begin to make the slightest excuse, "you" are not being responsible!
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Rev. Jo-An Josephine
BOOKS like the Bible and the Kuran and the rest of them, were written by MEN, not god, for the soul purpose of controlling the masses, especially women and children.
As for the Bible...it's THE greatest works of FICTION ever published. But hey....we all need to believe in something right?
STOP believing the "written" word and start believing the "inner" word, for that truly is where god lies....WITHIN!!!!!
God= Ala= Buddha= Messiah= etc, etc...all the same thing!
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Lynn Fitzsimmons
You have responded to my comment/article. The Bible is open to many interpretations. I believe it has many historical facts that cannot be overlooked. I do not believe it is fully fictional as you have stated. The interpretation is with the reader and the believer of his/her own beliefs. I do believe we are of one creator of Heaven and Earth and all of the solar system, stars, and galaxies around us. As we are of one creator, then, we are all connected through the one spirit of that creator which I choose to call "God" or "Heavenly Father". I walk in grateful praise and speak of the spiritual connects and blessings we have been bestowed upon us. We have been given the gift of free speech, to think. to learn, and to grow and develop in many ways especially in the purpose of us being on earth!. Our failures and shortcomings are our learning experiences of life. If one so chooses not to learn or to take opportunity of the challenges and struggles before them, one will stay the same. But, if one believes in the Heavenly Father who loves us all, he then believes in the pathways in which Our Lord leads us. In this pathway of our journey of life is struggles, barriers, and our own stubborn ego and physical challenges we must face. These we must challenge/fight in order to learn, grow, and to share with others and to connect with the spirit of others.
, Through our spirit and connecting with the spirit of others, we can make a real difference in this world to live together in harmony and peace. You also speak of FEAR.. Fear is False Evidence Appearing Real. It is our own self who feels afraid and allows our ego to increase the feeling of being scared until it is a huge monster of a FEAR. Individuals create their own fear. Look at what you fear, break it down, understand what the fear is, can you do something about it, challenge it and succeed over your fear. Get rid of it! Living in fear is not living at all! Religion is how you practice your own personal belief in your God. Religion is the practice of your faith to refresh and nurture your body, mind, and spirit. Spirituality is believing in your God and believing each one of us is connected in spirit to be free, to journey, to experience, to learn and share our true purpose of being alive on this earth. I walk in grateful praise, to help, support, and to touch hearts, in order to ignite the flame of hope and passion in individuals and to encourage/motivate them to take action on their passions and to follow their dreams and make them come true. Each one of us is unique and have strong passions of what are purpose on earth is to be! Use your uniqueness and follow your passions, discover and find your purpose on this earth and share it with others. Believe in the Bible. Don't believe in the Bible. God does live within your soul. Allow our spirit to soar and unite. .-
John Owens
Nice reply. Good spirit in your words.
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John Owens
Sorry. I have to fervently disagree with everything you just said, not that it matters, but Allah and Buddha do not compare at all to the God of Israel or the Messiah. As to characterizing the Bible as being a work of fiction, you can choose to believe that, but you have to be willfully ignorant to do so. There is so much archaeologically verified history in it, and so many historical figures that CAN be and have been verified, that your statement is hyperbolic. Even if you don't believe some of it, to characterize it as the greatest work of fiction is insanely extreme.
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Lynn Fitzsimmons
Well, John, I believe we have just connected spiritually. I do believe in the Bible. But, that is not the question at hand.
When you speak of religion and spirit I believe they are two different and separate entities on their own.
Men and women have to both take responsibility for their own actions and who they are as a human being. Each in respecting our sexuality! Sex is a human need and desire but their have been horrific and tragic incidents where sexuality has been exploited and many acts of violence have occurred. This is not sexuality. The act of our sexuality and the act of sex is suppose to be consentual between two people, loving, compassionate, caring, and fulfilling to both parties involved. Where two spiritual beings share their love (or share their consentual passions and desires). When individuals can put sex out of mind, interact and communicate as human beings without sexuality being front of mind, only then, and only then, can men and women be equal. Can it happen? Probably not!
The Bible is not the truth of sexuality. It is personal, private, and should be respected to one's self.
My spirit glows strong, as I respect myself, my beliefs, and my God, and in who I am! Thanks John. -
hsw
You are obviously not acquainted with the genre known as "historical fiction." It weaves storylines around historical facts in a creative way that injects a sense of reality into the story. Point being, the ability to verify some historical facts doesn't lessen the fact that a work is fiction.
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John Owens
Thank you Lynn, and hsw, having people SAY something is fiction does not make it fiction. Harry Potter is fiction. To Kill a Mockingbird is fiction, Conan, Tarzan are fiction. Tom Clancy writes historical fiction (and very well, I might add) as do Robert Ludlum, John Grisham, and others. Those do not compare with the Bible.
We all know why so many want to dismiss the Bible. Namely, because it reproaches their behavior. Some seem to think that if we just let everybody be themselves without reproach, we can have peace and stability. Not so. Peace and stability come from obedience to the Bible. They are the blessing of God, who promised to make our enemies be at peace with us if we (nationally) were obedient to Him. Of course, that is not going to happen, because the obedient people will not kill all the disobedient people, and will not allow the disobedient to kill them. So, we struggle and argue over the more mundane factors in life. I suppose we should find some happiness that we have nothing better to do.
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hsw
John Owens if you read any agreement with your comments into mine, you misread me completely. I do believe the bible is a work of historical fiction.
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John Owens
Smiling here, hsw. I would not be so unkind as to read any agreement into your posts. And, btw, if there is a genre of literature with which I am NOT familiar, chances are, neither are you.
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Willie
I totally agree with Rev. Jo-An. There is only one Source, only energy as is proven by Quantum Physics. Everthing is Energy, Freqency and all that comes out of it and visa versa. The so called Gods were created by the different religions to control the people, power and control and since men were in control in those days and mostly still are, they set the rules! And basically they are the same barbarians in war and in Peace as is allowed by other men and their religions! Just look at history and see what countries surpress or have surpressed women and made us subservient before or now that should give you a general idea! And also remember mostly history in the USA and most countries is His-Story. Open your eyes and see and use your mind and consciousness!!! In Light
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CHuntDooley
Well said, Jo-An! You can tell it's a lie because god is given male pronouns. The person who invented god would naturally model that god in their own likeness. In this case, it was men who invented god for their own treasonous desires. ALL organized religion needs to go. Women need to lead the battle out of this make believe world, as it is women who have been most harmed by all of its lies.
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CHuntDooley
Lynn, with all due respect, your response is ignorant and offensive. I was a child when I was molested by my grandfather. He was a pedophile. I was raised to believe that "men are the head of the household" and that you should not speak badly about your "elders". Everything I learned was from those in control of me. The religious zealots primed me to be abused by a pedophile misogynist. It's cute that you think that women are in charge of their own destiny. A woman should be able to walk out of her house stark naked and go grocery shopping and get the same respect as if she were wearing a burqa. Thanks to the lie of religion the patriarchy still heads our governments and communities. You are naive if you think that men's policies do not negatively affect you. I could do NOTHING as a child. But now that I'm grown I can speak out against men like him, and against women like you who've never experienced the true terror of the patriarchy we live in. Count yourself lucky, but don't you dare say that I had control over what happened to me. The trauma that it caused left me vulnerable as a teenager. Think how much women could accomplish if the patriarchy didn't exist, if we didn't spend all of our time trying to prove that we're good enough to compete with men. Ridiculous. You can take your sicky-sweet, over-simplified views of the world, and you can bury them in the back yard with your bible.
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Rachel
Men sexually have assaulted children who are very young even two year olds. Not because of how they dress or act, and often someone who they know and trust. Religion has nothing to do with it. Men need to be held accountable for their actions. God says even thinking about it is a sin. If the punishment for such acts was to become a eunuch, I am certain the rates of such horrific crimes would drop and those offenders would have a slim chance of reoffending. It is also said that this is some way of thinking that is inherent in the genetics and has something to do with the mind. I think that is still a poor excuse. Either way, those guys should not have any right to breed. What else can these guys not control themselves with?
I think that women only pool hours is a good idea because of the number of women who have at some point been sexually assaulted. They deserve to have a time when they feel safe and comfortable to swim as they may not be able to otherwise. Let the men have a men only swimming time as well to keep it equal if that is the problem. Swimming is the best excersize and everyone should be allowed to feel it is ok to participate at some time.
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Janice
I agree with you Reverend Rachel all the way.
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Rev paul
I agree 100percent
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John Owens
I think everyone, not just men, should be accountable.
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Rev paul
Don't you're so right
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Silver
I am from a country where women are expected to give birth to a baby boy,minimum 2, and if not u will be tagged unfit woman and when u gave birth to only girl or girls you will be definitely send back to your parents or your husband marries another wife. WHAT A SHAME!!! A woman is expected to keep quiet when cheated on but will be killed when cheats.
SAY NO TO WOMEN OPPRESSORS
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John Owens
I say no to women oppressors, Silver. As the son of a good mother, the husband of one good wife who gave me two children (a son and a daughter) who died of cancer in 2002, the father of a wonderful, beautiful, charismatic daughter, and husband of a fantastic woman now, I LOVE the women in my life, and I do not believe in mistreating women. Daughters bear grand-children, and are therefore as valuable in any sense as sons. My only son's only child is a daughter, but she can bear great-grandchildren. The female is just as necessary and to be treasured as the male. I despise cultures that castrate their women and oppress them. I do know that we are meant to be different, but women should be free and not oppressed. Men who oppress women should have to live and die without them entirely. Death to all tyrants, small and great.
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LR
On top of that, women are not allowed to speak to men unless they speak to them first or they can get sexually assaulted or abused.
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For me, this article has its points and flaws. It has its points in parts that some Religion actually oppresses women’s rights as a human being, and also in doing things for the benefit of the men. Yes, they are women, but they have their own rights too! We can’t deny the fact that women are more vulnerable to men but we can stand up in our own. We don’t have to be dictated by the people around us just to please them. We should just think of 1 thing, which is Responsibility. We should just be responsible with our actions and be sensitive to the people around us in order for us to get the respect that we deserve. It is wrong to blame only the women because of their actions like riding a bicycle. They say that it is “provocative” to men but are we going to blame it on the women again? It is now in the hands of men to control themselves upon seeing a woman like that. I would like to quote the quotation beside this article which caught my eye that says, “When men are oppressed, it’s a tragedy. When women are oppressed, it’s a tradition.” This one-line quote sums up this whole article and I’m very thankful for this post because I shared my insights about the topic.