Should a Christian nonprofit be denied federal funding over a “Christians-only” hiring policy? That’s the question at the heart of a federal lawsuit out of Michigan, where a Grand Rapids-based charity which resettles refugees suddenly had federal funding pulled after instituting a faith pledge for employees.
Should nonprofits that only hire Christians be prohibited from receiving government funding?
Christians-Only Mandate
“A family-centered nonprofit supporting children and families with world-class social services, all designed to help families thrive,” is how Bethany Christian Services describes itself on its website. The Michigan-based nonprofit has been operating for more than 50 years and has more than 2,000 employees, making them a leader in refugee services and adoption in the United States.
Bethany is a Christian charity with a hiring mandate: to work for the group, you must have Christian beliefs.
That rule was not strictly enforced for many. But late last year, a new CEO took over and informed staff that moving forward no exemptions would be made to the hiring policy. Employees would be required to sign a statement of faith affirming their belief in Jesus Christ, God, and the resurrection.
Internally, the sudden pivot was controversial. One anonymous employee said that “people were shocked” at “how hard and fast the policy came down.”
“There was no conversation,” the employee said. “There was no ‘Let’s come together and talk about how this policy might be implemented.’ It was, ‘This is what’s happening, and you’re going to adhere to it.’”
Here's what the statement of faith reportedly looks like:
Funding Denied
Following the renewed enforcement of the hiring mandate, the Office of Global Michigan (OGM), part of the state’s labor department, began denying Bethany longstanding bids on contracts and federal funding which Bethany had long relied on.
Bethany believes it’s because of their faith-based hiring practices. Now they’re suing the state, alleging religious discrimination.
“For the first time since Bethany began serving refugees in Michigan in 1962 and became a contractor of the state of Michigan in 1981, the organization has been denied refugee-resettlement services contracts because of their religious employment practices, even though federal law has long supported this civil right,” reads Bethany’s federal lawsuit.
Federal law affirms that Muslim nonprofits can hire Muslims; Jewish nonprofits can hire people of Jewish faith; and Christian nonprofits can hire Christians,” says Nhung Hurst, Bethany’s general counsel. “For 50 years, this has been a long-standing American civil right that has never been controversial. We are disappointed that the state of Michigan would engage in religious discrimination.”
What Happens Next?
OGM is declining to comment on the lawsuit, but this isn’t the first time Bethany’s run afoul with the state. In 2019, the state of Michigan warned them that they could not discriminate against LGBTQ couples when fostering, prompting Bethany to overturn their longstanding anti-LGBTQ policy rather than risk a state investigation and possible legal trouble.
For now, Bethany says they simply want to continue helping people. “This is not about funding,” says Nhung Hurst, Bethany’s general counsel. “This is about people who will one day wake up and there won't be services if we don't get an answer.”
What do you think? Religious charities are legally able to require employees to adhere to their faith-based values, but should state and federal funding go to organizations that discriminate on the basis of religion?
Are these organizations entitled to public funds, and is it religious discrimination when they don’t receive them?
110 comments
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Derek Graybill
Peace, Love and Blessings!!The issue is simple...if you have 501(c)(3) the government places restrictions and opens your books to the public, so your donors how much and when is all their business. To be completely private with sealed books and pure anonymity you want 508(c)(1)(a) You have your Status as a minister, now Stand on your Rights.
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Miriam Gates
There is no 1 right religion, every religion created by man has issues. There is reasons to join or not join. God is bigger than our rules, organized way of having church services. If a person is very hungry or in such need for God to intervene in their life or situation, I believe God helps or delivers in spite of a religion! Religion is not God, church is not a building and God is not in our boxes we put Him in. Jesus held church wherever He was. Walking down a street, on a hillside, on the water in a boat, in houses or in a temple so why do we have to have a building to have church? This church is us, living and breathing humans….we are the church, God lives inside us…He goes where we go and He never forces Himself on anyone so if you don’t want God then that is your choice and He isn’t with you.
So this is my belief.
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Mark Fleming
I believe that my federal government should not be funding religious activities at all. There is no "America is Christian" exemption in our constitution. I also believe that such an exemption fosters hostility toward those of other or no beliefs.
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Daniel Gray
and you really need to actually do something foreign to you, you need to actually READ Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which does in fact give a religious exemption so you actually CAN be fired from a religious school for not following their rules.
the U.S. Supreme Court held in Carson v. Makin that Maine violated the law Exercise by excluding religious schools from a private-school-choice program
https://www.propublica.org/article/ohio-taxpayer-money-funding-private-religious-schools
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-backs-public-money-religious-schools-maine-case-2022-06-21/
Flast v. Cohen, 392 U.S. 83 (1968) Argued: March 12, 1968 Decided: June 10, 1968
United States v. Fruehauf, 365 U. S. 146, 365 U. S. 157 (1961). Says the same thing that public monies CAN go to religious schools.
So my question is how many times do you wish to be proved wrong before you just give up?
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Darran Jones
Isn't that funny and ironic, the organization is suing the state for religious discrimination when that is exactly the same thing that they are doing in their new policy for employees? It makes my head hurt...lol
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Any specific belief is discrimination. Humans discriminate. It might be called natural selection, tribalism, or staying true to one's dogma, survival.
Free will, not oppression.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
I disagree. Any specific belief is just that, a specific belief. And that is not discrimination by any means.
However, trying to somehow marginalize, punish or otherwise diminish someone who believes differently, or even to think of them as being of lessor intelligence would be discrimination if acted upon.
But just having a belief...nope, not discrimination
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Victor Wayne Sweatman
If this organization is strictly a religious enterprise, It should not receive any public funding but rely solely upon private donations from Christian individuals and churches who feel so inclined to support it. When you receive public funding, that entire 'public' isn't necessarily Christian. If they want to keep it pure Christian, Keep it pure Christian. In Matthew 5:45, as part of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says this about God the Father: “He makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust”
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Ruth Batina E. VanDam-Hinds
Christians seem to be largely ignorant of the passage in the New Testament in which Jesus indicated, by using the terms "sheep" and "other pastures," that He also would/has/will come to other cultures. Naturally, he would be called Ram, Brigitte, etc., in those other cultures as they would not have the same language. I was raised to believe it is necessary to be a "born again Christian" to go to heaven.
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David Buck
Their name clearly states that they are "Bethany Christian Services". If you are not willing to sign the declaration of Christian faith, don't apply for a job with a Christian charity. Seems pretty simple to me.
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Patricia Collins
We all pray to a God in the belief that there is one, whatever we call Him. This is faith! We cannot see Him but He manifests in spirit and deeds without discrimination. Patricia, September 26, 2024 at 2pm
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John E. Bayer
God... is within all of us. When you ask."Is there a Right God...?" You are asking "Is there a Right Person...?" Look in a mirror... I am there... Look under a rock.... I am there.... Look at flower... see the Universe... To know God... is to be part of God.... You, the reader of this, all of us, have the ability to do good things. Things God would do to help with the prayers of others. The question is simple. Are you, the reader of this, willing to be a part of God to make things Right for others...?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
They scream "Religious Discrimination!!!" But then fiercely intend to use their religion to discriminate against others with an iron fist. Rather hypocritical, no?
Simply put, there is supposed to be a STRONG wall between Church and State. Hence the 1st Amendment as well as other clauses within the Constitution, and Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli.
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Warren Calvin Wall
A non-profit private organization can discriminate according to the registered bylaws under which it is formed. It simply cannot receive public funding from the government if it does so.
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Shanta McBain
The requirement for employees to sign a statement of faith by a religious-based organization, especially when funded by government, raises significant legal and ethical issues. This practice often prioritizes religious dogma over broader spiritual values like empathy and compassion, which are central to many spiritual teachings, including those of Jesus Christ (Jones & Smith, 2020, p. 29).
This scenario underscores a broader conflict where religious organizations may prioritize their doctrinal purity over both legal obligations and the spiritual essence of empathy and universal love taught by figures like Christ.
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Christiaan Wagener
The body of Christ is available to anyone who wishes to serve. If people who follow other prophets are willing to work to honor the body of Christ, they are in essence Christians. They are bringing the teachings of other prophets in line with the body of Christ as they practice the Christian principles and become the emmisaries enlarging the body of Christ. Do not stop those who are willing to do the evangelical work.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
A Christian organization should be able to disobey Jesus as much as a non-Christian one. Allowing only non-Christians to discriminate the way Jesus said not to would be unconstitutional; freedom of religion includes the right to represent your faith poorly, too. That said, the government is not allowed to favor a religious group, and by prioritizing their oath of loyalty they are making it clear that the "religious" part is more important than the "charity" part.
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Jamie Frost
They can hire whoever they want.. that's their right... And the government can give funding to whoever they want to as well....
Freedom of rights does not equal to freedom of consequences when you abuse them..
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Walter J. Holbrook
You can not force your religious on others. Even in the work place
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Benyahmin
I do not believe they’re trying to force their religion upon anyone the idealism that you have to be of the same faith or have a belief in Christ it’s only a prerequisite to employment. In the same manner, it’s like a public swimming pool, putting out an ad for a lifeguard requirement must be able to swim. It’s not discrimination to not hire somebody they can’t swim.
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Donna Jean Kain
What ever the previous decisions of courts have been, people can push for federal legislation to change how federal funding is provided when discriminatory policies are in place. If federal funds are provided to organizations that require people to pledge or swear to a religious belief that seems antithetical to the separation of church and state.
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Donna Jean Kain
What ever the previous decisions of courts have been, people can push for federal legislation to change how federal funding is provided when discriminatory policies are in place. If federal funds are provided to organizations that require people to pledge or swear to a religious belief that seems antithetical to the separation of church and state.
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Donna Jean Kain
What ever the previous decisions of courts have been, people can push for federal legislation to change how federal funding is provided when discriminatory policies are in place. If federal funds are provided to organizations that require people to pledge or swear to a religious belief that seems antithetical to the separation of church and state.
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Tom Herman
Yes, they should be denied. That is the nature of a non-profit organization. They can make their own rules but when it comes to applying for tax dollars they need to comply with the laws of the land. You can't have it both ways. Laws protect us from nany forms of discrimination. I support these laws. If a non-profit wants to maintain discriminatory rules, they should look for their funding elsewhere, not the public's tax dollars.
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Anthony Robert Burkel
Government funding is taxes collected from people of all religions, races & sexual preferences. Any organization that discriminates against anyone shouldn't get government funding. Any Christian that discriminates is no Christian at all. Love thy neighbor ❤️.
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Joseph Grieco
The problem really arises not from their not hiring a Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc. It comes when they decide some flavors of "Christian" are more deserving of employment than others. For example, there are some Protestant groups that will not hire Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Mormon or Unitarians as insufficiently "Christian", and won't even considering hiring LGBTQIA+ folks. The second problem comes if they take federal funds to operate, they are supposed to follow Federal Employment guidelines.
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Sheryl Kathryn Hussey
imo We all know good people who aren’t Christian. I respect their Constitutional rights to worship as they choose, which includes not at all. I don’t support discrimination in any form. I also think there should be no tax breaks of any kind for religious institutions. It’s a small planet We want to leave our children a planet that can sustain them
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Steven Ferrell
They have not stopped funding or contracts to similar muslim organizations that only hire muslims. Why are they only doing it to a Christian organization?
It is purely religious discrimination against Christians only. Typical of government controlled by the left.-
Robert A Stiff
Succinct comment....until the final sentence.
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Melinda Ann Cheatham
In a better world, the funding party should be able to dictate this. Government funding = government rules. Private funding = stricter rules unless violating federal rules. None of anyone's business who people sleep with. No one's business what religion you are. If you can do the work, that's it.
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Joseph Michael Schmidt
Separation of church and state only meant for religion to not run the government not be totally out of government.
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Timothy Brian Brent
I’m sorry if you don’t like what the government is doing, but separation of church and state does not work both ways. If the federal government stops funding, you cannot just sue them and get it back adhere to the rules and will keep their funding people have rights in this country and that’s the right to believe in their God their way.
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Govannon Thunorwulf
That is what kept me from getting a job in the local community. Many aid programs also get support from the church as well. That is why I think my internship was suddenly terminated.
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Rev. Laurie G. Cleveland RN
I believe that God created different religions to speak to different groups of people so thst they can understand him better.
He used prophets and some fell on thheir face whilr others didn't. This is religious disxrimination ajd I was thevvictim of it st a nursingvsgency where I worked an LPN eho didn't like me and was ,"teacher'spet" concoted this vock and bull dtory thst Ibtried to recruit a pstient my religion. First of all, it showed her complete ignorance. It's dort if the Masons to be obe, you have yo ask one and it usn't sutomstic. It takes a year and.a day and secondly. I wasn't guilty of it. I wss woyh mt LPN who was teavhing me how to fo a eounf VAC. She never asked her and luedvabout. The inly two quedtions that the patirnt question asked me :Oh so you're one of tjose? And donyou heal? I answered yes to both. Thevtruth reallybis that I outgrew my narrow teachingbwhen my mind was opened up in nursingvdcjoolnand tgen college because I had to learm about different faiths, ethnicities, etc.
Problems always arise wglhen you drag religion into it. Do I believe that Muslim women cannot.go swimming injust a tastefuo bathingbsuitvand still be prooer? Yes. I spoke to a young mum at a pool. She had 3daughters and she and I dtsrted talkung and it was a hotbday. She said thatvshe lived to swim andvIbasked ehy she didnXt grt in the wzter with her girlsvandvthe answervwas painguoly obvious. Her husbandvwho kept circling like a shark. Religion can be devusive and discriminstion is routinrly practiced in the darndest pkaces, but if you ever took a comparstivevreligiond course you eould understand this voncept of one god ir supreme being. It's the hesrt of all religions.
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Rev. Rory
There should be no government funding for any religion and there should be no "non-profit" of any kind, religious or not. All religious groups should have the ability to operate and be funded by their own members. That means every group - United Way, ASPCA, Scouts, political PACS, churches, hospitals, etc. If you take in money, you pay taxes just like any other business. There should be no tax exemptions for those that donate to a charity. There is really no such thing as a non-profit. If there is a serious need (for example, help for wounded veterans) then it should be addressed by the government OR addressed by groups that help but not with a "non-profit" status.
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John J Albers
Today’s ‘MAGA’ Republican Party and Supreme Court has taken religion in as a form of political correctness that should be subject to their interpretation and not what has been held for decades and decades — there is a separation of state (government) and religion and there should never be a preferential system and treatment to any of them and against the approximate 320 million citizens of the United States of America (USA).
The USA was not created, nor its government and separate branches to be a theocracy and theocracy was to stay out of governance and laws and rules.
Religions institutions, religious's organizations and personal directly affiliated with them and/or hired should abide by the individual state and federal law and rules.
I mean already religious leaders (ministers or called by other names) are exempt from many tax laws and get many breaks. That is why you see little religious facilities pop up everywhere to take advantage of these rules and to give individuals a powerful tool over others.
Which seems to be what is happening now, some new religious leader comes in with a power trip and upends 50 plus years of working order within the norms excepted all because he and maybe other staff were placed in an environment where if they don’t agree then the door is there and don't let it hit you in the butt.
They aren’t Christian in the ways if the New Testament or of what Jesus specifically says (red edition words), Jesus was all inclusive and not a racist, bigot, hateful person of men or women who were LGBTQ, prostitution, etc., they were all welcomed.
However, in my humble opinion, when western (predominantly) white MEN got hold of an English language bible THEY not through God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit inspired reinterpreted all that was written to fit their Power hunger to make themselves (MEN) the only leaders of religious institutions and giver of their interpreted freedoms WE ALL should have — such as hiring because of one or a few minions afraid because they have no clue what a true Christian is.
In ending remember so called Christianity has as of 2023, 200 different denominations in America alone, with thousands of individual of religious facilities that all say they read, speak, preach, study and teach from the same one bible which Jewish people wrote over 2000 years ago, but claim its the same God, Jesus and Holy Spirit that speaks to them and/or them alone as the one true religion!
Wow, the Tower of Babel, never; still exists because God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit should be on one page, using one bible; save all the other books the Catholic church burned as heretical, because they thought it was in their best interests! Well, why would God have told someone to write it then if it wasn't meant to edify the people at the time?
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Amen.
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Cheryl Pettijohn
If they get public funds they should abide by non discrimination laws. This is clear discrimination. If they want to have those hiring practices they should not get public monies. period
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Mark Stephen Edwards
I agree. Public funds require the receiver to accept the giver's rules.
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Sylvia Clark Sirmons
Dr. Sylvia Clark Sirmons I have always said. Church and State has never been separate, Only when they believe, their way of life has been intruded on. Dr. King said “The Most segregated place, on Sunday Mornings is Church in America “ 🇺🇸
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Even a flower is right sometimes.
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David M Hines
Keep in mind these people don't pay taxes, which in my mind certainly makes up for any government-funded goodies they might miss out on, as well as putting their bleating about "fairness" into context.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Neither do secular 501c3 organizations that target mental health, AIDS, cancer, animal cruelty and the full spectrum of other non-profit organizations. Would you deny those federal funding too? In many communities, Catholic Charities administer the LIHEAP (federal funding for heating/cooling assistance) and run shelters supported by HUD. Where would these communities be without this type of help?
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Joe Stutler
This is one of those "Whose face is on this coin?" moments. You want public dollars, you comply with public laws/rules.
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Deborah Jean Howard
This is my belief. If it is loud to say, you can only be a Christian to work here or go to school here. It should be across-the-board for every nationality, religion or group. There is some colleges out there some businesses can’t say they don’t do it. Will not hire you or let you go there unless you Are the same as them
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John Anthony Laben
By denying none Christians they are missing out on an opportunity to spread the word of God by leading by example, Jesus's never turned anyone away, their actions are saying we do not practice what we preach
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Rev Ned
Who, in their right mind, who believes otherwise, would want to work in a Christo-fascist organization?
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Patricia Ann Gross
I've seen this comment posted several times, and it's simple. It's a job. I have worked retail jobs where I can't afford to shop, and it is basically the same thing. Many churches hire people who do not worship there, and in some churches it is policy. They can go to a similar church, but not have their membership where they work, because it creates a conflict of interest and opens them to claims of unfair treatment. This organization is not a church, but a church-supported service organization where a lot of people who would love to help the refugees cannot get the job unless they sign the statement of faith. I have turned down jobs and refused to apply for ones that require a statement of faith, generally because most of the ones I have seen are for a specific denominational belief system or literal Bible understanding. Whether I believe in The Bible as metaphore or The Bible as a historical and science text is none of my employer's business.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Thanks for your opinion.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Tough titties. People are being hired for jobs. Follow the guidelines or close up shop.
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arawngraalrd
No test of Religion may be a qualification for Public Office.
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ServantOfJudgement
No Christian organization should ever get government funding. Not ever. They should never accept it apply for 501c3 status either.
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Canadian Yankee
We need to get religion out of goverment. Why should I or anyone pay taxes and support groups that do not. Preachers buying jets to wisk them around the country and millions taken in a the collection plates with little oversight. Stop these leaches from taking our money.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Some humble preachers work 40 hours weekly and preach their faith on Wednesday night and Sunday.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
I would have to say that whatever the rules or standards are to qualify as a religious non profit are they should be considered the same as any other qualifying religious non profit for funds. I personally would never want to work for a bigoted organization and would never support or apply there. But that is me disagreeing with the group's tenants. When striving for equality and nonjudgmental policies across the board all need to be considered fairly whether we personally agree or do not agree with their policies. It could just as easily be turned around to where a gnostic christian non profit applied and bible thumper conservatives opposed them for not being their concept of christian beliefs. My opinions of the group would be very different and supported by me in that case.
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Alexander Arends
This is sad because Bethany Christian Services has done so much good in the communities it serves. In my opinion it ought to fire the executive director who is more concerned with the purity of it's employees than service to the community.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
but that is what their kind of kkkrischinsanity is all about...purity of their employees (according to them, anyway)
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Has the monitor asked you to delete your post?
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Break the law, don't get funding. Sounds simple.
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Susan Christine Giganti
No employee in the USA should have to sign a faith statement. Church and State are separated. Is the new manager named Henry VIII ?
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Daniel Gray
No they are not as that myth does not exist and never has.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Myth has spawned religion and science...
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Rev Deborah Dunkle (Raven Wolf Song)
The non profit was aware of the rules which they observed until the new director took over. They had already been told they could not discriminate against lgbt people. If you are accepting public money you agree to follow the rules. You can not say you have to be our faith to work here. What is wrong with people? I’m sure they have a copy of the rules this feels like trying to get the courts to force non Christian’s out of work. How very Christian is that??
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Daniel Gray
wrong. No government agency can tell you who you can and cant hire. Do a simple google search in the US Library of Congress and you will see a plethora of court cases that have LBGTQ people losing because they didnt follow the rules of the company they applied to. And even the SCOTUS has clearly ruled that you cannot be denied government funding just because you wont hire people. You need to start paying attention to the actual laws and not to the laws that you mistakenly think exist or your own personal beliefs.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Well Daniel, there is that law called the Civil Rights Act that says you cannot discriminate on the basis of Race, Religion, or Sex. Firing a man because they are married to another man is sex based discrimination. That same person would not have been fired had they been married to a woman. So, if you’re a man and they think you should be married to the opposite sex then they are judging you on your sex. SCOTUS has already ruled you cannot fire someone for who they have sex with without taking into account their sex.
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Daniel Gray
And the Supreme Court showed that law does not apply with the Coach decision where they had to rehire a coash and the school district lost close to 2 million dollars.
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James Riggle-Johnson
The ruling said they cannot infringe on his right to pray on the field, or to have his player, if the chose, to participate. This is about the hiring policy of a religious organization. It is much different.
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Daniel Gray
Nope they fired him because he was praying on his own, and they got slapped so hard that their eyes are still spinning and it cost them over 2 million dollars.
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Michael Hunt
He was most certainly not praying on his own. That's an inaccurate description of the case.
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Daniel Gray
And he was on the sidelines all by himself. Now how in your reality does that not constitute praying alone?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The State government seems to disagree with you. Take it up with Michigan.
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Daniel Gray
dont have to Zerp. If Michigan is sued like Maine was, they are going to lose as the SCOTUS said they (states) cant do this.
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James Riggle-Johnson
The supreme court said no such thing.
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Daniel Gray
and you really need to actually do something foreign to you, you need to actually READ Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which does in fact give a religious exemption so you actually CAN be fired from a religious school for not following their rules.
the U.S. Supreme Court held in Carson v. Makin that Maine violated the law Exercise by excluding religious schools from a private-school-choice program
https://www.propublica.org/article/ohio-taxpayer-money-funding-private-religious-schools
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-backs-public-money-religious-schools-maine-case-2022-06-21/
Flast v. Cohen, 392 U.S. 83 (1968) Argued: March 12, 1968 Decided: June 10, 1968
United States v. Fruehauf, 365 U. S. 146, 365 U. S. 157 (1961). Says the same thing that public monies CAN go to religious schools.
So my question is how many times do you wish to be proved wrong before you just give up?
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James Riggle-Johnson
Daniel, they way you talk to people… you are rude, and a bully. I stand up to bullies every day, and you are no different. Do you know how to identify a bully? They don’t just try to use logic in their arguments. They need to add insults that try to demean the person trying to make them feel insignificant.
In reality, your insults show just how insecure and afraid you are. Maybe you’re afraid nobody will take you seriously. It’ doesn’t matter how many facts your throw around because it’s obvious whatever you’re reading will be twisted to agree with you. Did you graduate law school? What kind of law did you study? You are not going to bully me, Daniel. I think it’s funny.
This organization did not fire someone because they did not follow the rules. They suddenly have enacted a practice they haven’t used before. Even the employees of the organization are shocked their new CEO is doing it. We will see what the supreme court says, if need be. But here’s something that’s not in your law books, if you own any… people are losing faith in SCOTUS and their ability to rule objectively. It appears more and more they are using Christianity as a guide rather than man made laws. That would certainly dismantle faith in the legal system.
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Daniel Gray
whaaaaa. I give you proof that you dont know what you are talking about and then you get your panties in a bunch. No skin off my nose if reality and fact destroys your beliefs.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I go free style, and as I thought, you go with another insult. I’m glad it’s no skin off your nose. That’s what a bully does when someone stands up to them.
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Daniel Gray
and then you start complaining when you are proved wrong. Thats not being a bully, that is showing how incorrect you actually are and forcing you to change your opinion to fit with the facts.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I’m not complaining, and you’ve proved nothing. And Showing me? Forcing me to change my opinion? That’s how a bully talks. You prove nothing except you’re bully.
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John E Smith
Comment removed by user.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Isn’t it odd that we’re taking about a Christian organization claims discrimination because they want to discriminate using their Christian religion? Other companies are not allowed to discriminate based on Race, Gender, or Religious differences. Why should it be legal for them to do it.
It’s one thing if they don’t want to serve people who are not of their faith which has happened in some cases, but now it’s going too far. Discrimination is discrimination.
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Patricia Ann Gross
James, you nailed it. They are "claiming" discrimination, but it is unclear whether or not they were told that they were denied because of their hiring practices. This may only be an assumption on their part. Catholic Charities, Jewish Family Services, Lutheran Comunity Servicies and many other religious outreach organizations are primarily supported by their faith groups, and hire primarily their faith groups, but they also serve and hire people outside their faith communities (with the possible exception of executive management). Some of them have lost federal funding for reasons other than their hiring practices (service no longer qualified, had reached a limit in consecutive grant years, etc.)
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Warren Calvin Wall
Other companies are generally for-profit. Non-profits have different rules.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Thank goodness “it’s not about the funding.”
They can look elsewhere for funding!
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Comment removed by user.
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Theresa C. Marquess
Their name, "Bethany Christian Services" really says it all. Why would a non-Christian even apply for employment there? The statement of faith...The "Apostles Creed" is spelled out clearly. If you don't agree, don't apply! As far as funding is concerned, it would be up to the Federal Government as to whether to agree to fund this organization. If they don't, then Bethany Christian Services would have to look elsewhere, perhaps to the local Christian community, for their supplemental funding.
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John J. Beck
There are Roman Catholic hospitals and health care systems across the USA. One does not need to be a Roman Catholic, or even a Christian, to work there, practice there, serve on their boards, ...
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Warren Calvin Wall
And they are all for profit organizations. The rules are different for non-profits. Even if they are non-profit, it would be a matter of policy rather than law whether they choose to discriminate or not. The primary reason for establishing a non-profit status is tax exemption and the ability to make its own rules within the regulations.
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Colleen McAllister
If you want Federal funds then you must follow Federal guidelines.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
You got it. Play by the lender's rules.
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Robert Gagnon
They should hire one token trans and watch the flood gates open.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Comment removed by user.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Have whatever hiring practices you want, but if you discriminate you don’t get federal funding… pretty simple.
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Daniel Gray
wrong In June 2022, the U.S. Supreme Court held in Carson v. Makin that Maine violated the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment by excluding religious schools from a private-school-choice program—colloquially known as “town tuitioning”—for students in school districts without public high schools.
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Warren Calvin Wall
And that has absolutely nothing to do with a charity assisting refugees. It applied to schools and only schools. A non-profit private organization can discriminate according to the registered bylaws under which it is formed. They simply aren't eligible for public (government) funding. I worked for such an organization for 29 years in an executive position. I'm pretty familiar with the regulations concerning this.
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Daniel Gray
Nobody said it did. What I said, and you would know this if you read the thread; was that just because its a religious school or a private school, they STILL are able to get money from the US Government according to the Supreme Court so if someone decides to sue Michigan they are going to end up just like Maine did, on the losing side of the equation.
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Rev. Donut
What is the policy of the federal government on hiring?
Unfortunately, they do not have to hire the best qualified person for a job. They have to fill quotas.
Check boxes must be checked.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Weighted test scores based on race and national origin bootstrap less academic and experienced applicants at getting a job or slot in a university in which better-qualified candidates, not of his ilk, are discriminated against. One of these methods is Affirmative Action.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Reason with logic is often the best way to go. You got it.
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Najah P Tamargo
Najah Tamargo-USA
Aren't "....love thy neighbor", and "....acceptance" tenants of the "Christian" faith??? And where did the "...separation of church and state" go??? If these things have taken a vacation, when are they coming back???
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Dr. Jerry Allen
Separation of Church and state was and has never been codified. The idea was taken from a private letter from Thomas Jefferson who in fact was stating a "wall of separation" should exist between religion and government interference. Totally opposite of how it's been used. A CHRISTIAN organization should be able to hire only Christians. And if they meet qualifications, should be able to receive same funding as fundamental Muslim groups which do not allow Christian or Jewish employees yet government walks on egg shells around them.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Ditto.
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Rebecca L Tice
Well that's the way it has always been. They don't tell the church who they can hire or fire or ignore... but since they have that autonomy, they are "private" and therefore do not get "public" funds.
They don't have to cover abortion on their employee health insurance. They also don't have to accept "significant other" on the insurance either.
So because they get these understandable exemptions, they do not qualify for public funding.
It's been that way for a long time.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
Non-public entities get public funds for various causes. If the Catholic church accepts Title One funding/benefits, the Government expects it to follow bureaucratic guidelines.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Well said!
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Daniel Gray
wrong. In June 2022, the U.S. Supreme Court held in Carson v. Makin that Maine violated the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment by excluding religious schools from a private-school-choice program—colloquially known as “town tuitioning”—for students in school districts without public high schools.
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Cheryl Pettijohn
Read your own post. It specified school districts without public high schools. That is a rare exception. If you want to discriminate (not a good thing) you don't deserve public funds.
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Daniel Gray
Did read my own post AND unlike you I read the SCOTUS decision. Had something like this happen here in a Catholic school. The teacher was doing fine and everything was going smoothly, right up till she came out that she was in a same sex relation, thus VIOLATING the clause she signed when she was hired. She sued and she lost as it went clear up to the 6th US District Court of Appeals (one step below the supreme Court) and they specifically told her that once she signed the papers she committed herself to following the Schools rules. And she could have refused to sign the papers and go work somewhere else. BUT once the papers were signed it was a legal and binding contract and when she violated it, that was reason enough to fire her.
And as for not receiving public funds, seems the Supreme Court in a 6-3 decision says you are wrong Carson v. Makin, 596 U.S. 767 and again in Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue, 591 U.S. ___ (2020). In short it states that where a student goes, so goes the money the state set aside for the students education.
Seems you are on the wrong side of the logic tree this time.
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Joe Stutler
Pretty narrow decision, applies to cult/religious schools. While it's true that the Roberts court has taken a hard reich turn into Xtian Nationalism, there are still plenty of restrictions - at least on paper - on public funds going to cults/religions.
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Rebecca L Tice
Hold on there bucko.... The church is owned by God. The rules of the church are from God.
When it comes to the Supreme Court... well they just don't sit higher than God. On top of that... God doesn't need the money. If the lights are on five days a week more... and it's God's Will... God will provide the extra money to pay the light bills.
God says we are to treat others as we would have them treat them. If someone comes to the church for refuge... We are to be kind.
To withhold the services of the church is not kind. It's a room for crying out loud. They will pick up after themselves.... and they will probably return to the church on Sunday... and smile. They would be new converts... a plus for God!
God doesn't have to listen to the Supreme Court. The church shouldn't be fighting with anyone over this.
Let them use it and file the proper paperwork. It's paperwork people... They don't have to take down the cross or fill the Baptismal pool with cement to follow the agreement. They should just fill out the paperwork as requested and let the children learn in a safe place.
Maybe the kids won't get shot at quite so often in the church..... God doesn't need the money.
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Mark Stephen Edwards
'They" might believe it separates not Church and State.
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Rebecca L Tice
If the person wanting to "rent" a room in the church, were to pay for it with food or clothing for those in need.... Would it be any different?
Are you afraid of the "money changers" getting into the church?
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Here's how one solves this.
If you talk with someone long enough, you can determine if they're a Bible-believing Christian. If you don't want non-Christians working in your organization, then deny based on "culture fit", not religion. Simple process.
Or ask about other "volunteer" activities the candidate does.
That said, turning around and suing the government is ill-advised, but I understand the logic behind it.