A Florida mother was called into her daughter's school after administrators said the 6-year-old girl was in trouble for damaging a school computer. What she didn't expect was to witness a crime – or to get it on video.
With the mother looking on in astonishment, the school principal pulled out a wooden paddle and began spanking the young girl. Unsure how to handle the situation, the mother (who is not a fluent English speaker) pulled out her phone and began filming.
Even as the girl begins the cry, the principal does not let up. Another administrator is seen helping to hold her down as this punishment is delivered.
The mother's video of the incident was released and soon went viral, sparking furious responses and a contentious debate over the ethics of corporal punishment in schools.
Should it be Legal?
It might surprise you to learn that this type of physical punishment for students misbehaving is currently legal in 19 states. Interestingly, Florida is one of them. So is the principal off the hook?
Not so fast. It just so happens that the school district in question had banned it.
The video's release generated a public outcry – not only for its severity, but also because the principal was not acting within the laws of that jurisdiction. Reports indicate the principal will now face criminal charges for her actions.
"Spare the Rod and Spoil the Child"
Defenders of corporal punishment as a disciplinary method are apt to quote the Bible to justify their views. You may have heard the famous quip “spare the rod and spoil the child.”
This isn't a direct quote from the Bible, but it's a popular paraphrasing of some proverbs that seem to promote hitting children for misbehaving. Here are a few examples:
Prov 13:24: “He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him often.”
Prov 22:15: “Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.”
Prov 23:13-14: “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (i.e. death).”
How many people believe in the power of the rod? Among certain religious groups, the numbers are definitive. Recent surveys indicate that 85% of Evangelical Christians, for example, support corporal punishment in some form.
The argument is that children learn best from physical discipline – something words alone cannot replicate – and that if you choose to put down the rod, it will leave you with a “spoiled” child.
What do you make of the video? Is corporal punishment ethical, or should violence against kids be outlawed entirely?
153 comments
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Brien
This is between the mother, child, and the school district. The question I have is if the mother objected to it, then why did she allow it? She pulled out her phone, instead of pulling the child away from the principal. You don't have to be fluent in English to defend your child. A failure on the principal for not abiding by this districts policy, and a failure of the mom for not stepping in. The only victim here is the child.
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David Arthur Lewis
NO, this is NOT between the mother, powerless child, and school. Child abuse is a CRIME. The fact that the mother was intimidated by authority and could not communicate with the principal is inconsequential. The principal committed a crime, and her teaching license should be revoked, which is LAW in every civilized jurisdiction in North America.
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Brien
Ok, let me go over your reply point by point. 1) "Child abuse is a crime." Yes, it is. We agree. 2) "The fact that the mother was intimidated by authority and could not communicate with the principal is inconsequential." No, in this case it means everything. The child's mother, no MATTER WHAT LANGUAGE she may speak, could have stopped the principle simply by taking her daughter home. If she saw harm coming towards her child she should have stepped in. I have seen plenty of non-english speaking mothers stand up for their children so please don't use that as an excuse. Instead, what does she do? Pulls out her phone and videos the abuse. Are you kidding me? You do not have to speak or understand any language in order to protect from harm. 3) "The principal committed a crime, and her teaching license should be revoked," Yes, on this we agree. The mother also committed a crime, albeit a moral one. If you are not going to defend your child against abusive behavior then you should not be a parent. As I said, the only person in this story that is a victim is THE CHILD. I am uncertain as to what type of household you grew up in, I hope it was a good one. Mine was, we were taught respect, and my mother never let any other adult hit any of her kids. Peace ✌☮
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David Arthur Lewis
Then your mother was a very rare individual, Brian. Be grateful for that. But I seriously doubt that you and your mother were ever in this kind of situstuin. In my opinion, this mother was doing the only effective thing a person can do short of committing a crime herself. Assaulting a school official on school grounds is a felony, remember? She did what she knew would work to make sure that justice was done. Just like those Pigs who are in jail for getting caught on video murdering George Floyd, if she had not taken that video, the principal would have gotten off scott-free. And the damage to the child victim is permanent.
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Brien
I never said for her to assault anyone. I said she should have taken her child home. She should have stepped in to prevent the abuse. If the principal made physical contact with her, then the principal would have been charged with assault. As it is now, nothing more will happen to the principal other than maybe a reprimand. I, like many others, think that my mother is very unique, however I know plenty of mothers that are just as protective as mine. I stand by my assessment of this situation.
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David Arthur Lewis
Well, you're wrong. That principal is losing her job and her teaching license and facing criminal charges of child abuse and child endangerment. Without mom's video, nothing would be done to restore justice. And you, sir, have a very warped idea of parenting.
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Brien
How dare you. With no information at all you have degraded me to the level of abuser. I demand that you explain yourself in detail and please tell me exactly why you think that it is okay to allow abuse to happen while you stand by AND DO NOTHING. It is you that has a warped sense of parenting, It is you that would stand by and WATCH your child being abused. That is YOUR argument not mine. You very opinion on this is disgusting. You are entitled to your opinion, I just hope no one has suffered from it. Peace, if that is possible for you.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That's a good point, Brien.
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Rev Mark D
Brien: BINGO BINGO BINGO. Thank God that there is someone here with a sense of teaching, parenting, and a sense of proportion. Bravo. So many personality disorders people these pages you have got to of course wonder how they will make out when they have to turn, as old people, to the care of people such as these commenters are now. Indeed. Thanks for having some common sense and proportion.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Sorry Bri, but no one has the right by their job to abuse children, except maybe cops ofcourse. The mother like many after the Drumpf era is likely afraid to find herself deported just for the crime of not being white or fluent in english, so she did what media has shown her is the only real safe way to be heard and believed. The video shows proof of a crime, one of the most evil crimes in society, that of doing physical violence to a child. Something we by and large no longer allow even parents to do with some sick states having exceptions.
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Brien
So, you would stand by and watch your child being abused? Don't apologize to me, I am thankful that I do not believe as you or some politician or the media. I am old fashioned, I was taught to think for myself and chose my actions wisely. I am in no way perfect, but I am not brainwashed either. Peace
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David Arthur Lewis
That is just absolutely, totally BARBARIC. There is never any reason to hit a child. Hitting is counter-productive. It does NOT result in well-behaved adults. It results in adults who abuse children and spouses, and are well-practiced in hiding it.
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Anisahoni
"Paddling" Oh come on, this is child physical abuse. It is amazing how adults are constantly white washing their abuse of children from referring to the rape of 17 year olds as "sex with underage girls." No one has the right to physically, mentally, or sexually abuse children. People who use a history book filled with violence and genocide to justify violence today should be locked up. Quote all you want hypocrites. You belong in jail for violence.
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Rev Frankie PG
Just imagine, if the mom would've been doing her job then that Principal wouldn't have had to go to such a measure.
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Jeanette Harlow
Why is everyone assuming the mom didn't do her job? The child in question appears to be anywhere from 5 to 7 years old. No one said what she actually did. I thought I heard she had an accident with a computer...oh god she should definitely be punished for that, right? What is wrong with this picture? Let's look at the punishment for the crime before we start blaming anyone! Blame is what doesn't work in our world. Blame the christians, the muslims, those who believe in Biden, those who believe in Trump. Blame, blame, blame...when do we start looking to our hearts and just let go of all that isn't working and try to make things right for everyone? The thought of how that child and mother felt is what hurts my heart the most!
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Nicholas J Page
Totally agree that is child abuse and should never have happened.This behaviour doesn't happen here in the UK .No teacher is allowed to abuse a child.I hope the mother successfully Sue's the school and the principal.No excuse period Reverend Nicholas J Page UK
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Rev Frankie PG
As you are probably aware, Americans and especially American children, are some of the most ill-disciplined in the entire world!! Whenever you hear about someone whining because they were disciplined or faced a punishment that they find to be astounding, it's usually an American (ie- American child gets whipped in public street because of stealing, American gets mauled by tiger in tiger habitat that has clearly marked signs of keeping windows up). This, in my opinion, is not child abuse, it's child correcting. There are MANY kids in the UK that are dubbbed, "snotty little brats" and they're usually corrected by their parents. Here, in the U.S.A., unfortunately parents are too scared to discipline their child because there are so many laws protecting children, just like there are too many laws protecting evil-doers. This country, which I love and cherish, is losing their way on protecting what is moral and just.
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J.W. Browning
"The Bible says" Biggest BS excuse for wrongdoing EVER! You know what else the Bible says? Get ready. Here is your God and your Bible.
See, the day of the Lord is coming — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger. . . . I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty. . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated." (Isaiah 13:9–16 NIV) Yeh buddy, he's a loving kinda guy.
And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: 'If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.' . . . When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! . . . After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed." (Judges 11:30–39 NIV) And if you don't kill her and burn her just sell her as a slave.
And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. (Exodus 21:7)
"And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." (Leviticus 26:27–29 King James Version) Yummy
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. (Exodus 35:2) Stoning was God's favorite . So don't mow that yard. Don't work at the power plant to keep the juice going. Oh, and if you are a pastor you better not preach, because that is your job and you will be working. A book of myth concieved and written by man to controll others with fear. Just like beating a child into compliance.
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Cynthia Jean Parker
BS
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Brian Scott Hoff
Those are not the words written? Did he misquote? Please, make corrections.
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Cynthia Jean Parker
BS
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Aqilah Jackson
How does a school administrator have more rights over your child than you do??? In most states a parent who did this would be arrested. This is assault not punishment. On a side note be glad that wasn’t one of mine because there would be two tapes. One of him paddling my child, and one of me paddling him. The article said the mother didn’t speak English, so is there a racial component to this...?
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Rev Mark D
A racial component? Get a grip, your imagination and your own racial prejudice belies you. Also get a sense of proportion and situation and message. No harm done, no assault.
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John P Maher
IF ANY ONE EVEN TRIED to TOUCH ANY of MY CHILDREN, WELL THAT PRINCIPAL IDIOT WOULD NEVER BE ABLE to DRESS in PANTs or USE UNDERWEAR for WHERE the PADDLE WOULD PETRUDE, STUPID PARENT !
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Rev Mark D
Until 15 years from now your kid is arrested for drug abuse felony murder, because he, nothing has consequences and answering to no one is how you live your own life. Great example. Any decent parent would add their own punishment when the young-un gets home. And by the way, saw zero that doesn't happen every time a playing kid slips and falls on his/her butt twice a day. Peanut gallery adults are so pathological, no wonder the world needs more help.
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Jemma Kimberly Whyatt
If you have to rely on violence to make your child understand right from wrong you’re intellectually challenged to the point of it being best for you not to breed at all. Only fools use violence to fix things, there is always a better option when it comes to children.
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Rev Mark D
Thanks for your helpful caring thought. Certainly there is much to learn from it, although probably more about you than about me.
Actually as a parent, teacher, and school psychologist, who has raised three well adjusted, generous, productive kids (one a doctor, one a lawyer) I can certainly agree that you must know what you are talking about...your class and assessing ability and civilized acculturation certainly shows.
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flugo
Excellent!
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Brien
John, I know we may have disagreed from time to time but on this point I AGREE WITH YOU.
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Elaine Jones
It’s ABUSE! Physically and emotionally! It teaches the young that violence is the way to resolve issues! It’s humiliating and degrading! It’s wrong !
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Brad G Whitney
Amen.
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Juan Ramon Valdes
Convicted felons aren't even treated like this. Imagine the police force issuing paddles to officers so they can just beat shoplifters, or anyone else who they suspect of a crime.
Tell you one thing, if that happened to my kid they would have to surgically remove that paddle from that principal's wind pipe.
Then again, we don't know the fear the poor woman may have felt about taking a stand against this.
This is simply disgusting behavior that accomplishes nothing except traumatize the child.
And just to put a period on it, it doesn't matter one iota what the Bible says about it.
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Cynthia Jean Parker
When parents choose a school to send their child to they should remember what they agreed to. This was not a public school this was a private school. Just saying.
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Juan Ramon Valdes
I don't think I get to terrorize and abuse a six year old because I do it on private property.
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John R
Yet another example of how Rightwing conservative religionists may call themselves "Christian" but actually follow the Old Testament, not the New. Yes they like to hurt others, and they quote the old Hebrew letters to justify their evil ways. They are the Bible's hypocrites.
Many people became "Evangelical" thinking it was something good, and are only slowly beginning to realize what these sick puritans actually are.
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Aqilah Jackson
How does a school administrator have more rights over your child than you do??? In most states a parent who did this would be arrested. This is assault not punishment. On a side note be glad that wasn’t one of mine because there would be two tapes. One of him paddling my child, and one of me paddling him. The article said the mother didn’t speak English, so is there a racial component to this...?
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Aqilah Jackson
How does a school administrator have more rights over your child than you do??? In most states a parent who did this would be arrested. This is assault not punishment. On a side note be glad that wasn’t one of mine because there would be two tapes. One of him paddling my child, and one of me paddling him. The article said the mother didn’t speak English, so is there a racial component to this...?
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Rev Mark D
Look up "In loco parentis." That's how. Perfectly legal. Perfectly appropriate when parents don't socialize their kids. Prevents bigger problems, much bigger problems, down the line...and by the way, no abuse apparent from what was done, three swats. Worse, much worse, is the message that destructive behavior has no consequences or expense. Though I don't believe in CP myself, nothing wrong here, except exaggerated complaints by what seem to be unbalanced commentors. Most thinking, loving parents actually double the school's punishment once the kid gets home. Really only a personality disorder would object.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
The principal broke the law. Florida allows corporal punishment, but Hendry County where this incident took place does not. This reminds me the case where the pastor rapped and molested a minor telling the congregation about the incident. Did the congregation call for his arrest? No, they stood up and applauded.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Douglas, I bet that congregation was full of rapists and child molesters.
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CB Cuff
Child abuse, by striking them, is not corporal punishment. Florida need to eliminate 'corporal punishment' not only from schools but as a overall means of punishing a child. Discipline is meant to teach, not harm. Violence breeds more violence. Let's hope all the families who have had their child abused by this teacher generate a class action law suit.
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Rev Mark D
Yeah, this was a rape and molestation. Nice sense of proportion there old boy. Nothing diagnostic there, eh?
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Jeanette Harlow
"The bible says" That statement really irritates me. Too many people get away with abuse and hurtful actions based on what the bible says. I don't believe in the bible anymore. Wonder why? Think about it.
Let's get real and think about a child being paddled for an accident. Let's think about a woman with a language issue, in an environment that she doesn't understand. And the fear that they most likely both felt!
Really? Too bad the bible doesn't say: have compassion for your fellow beings. Stand up for what is right, even if it isn't sponsored by the almighty bible, or church leaders, or government leaders.
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David Arthur Lewis
I think the Jesus God said something about "whatever you do to the least (smallest) of these, you do to me". So would Principal Karen paddle Jesus?
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flugo
'darle'; What an example of unscholarly, obtuse, and erroneous distortion of the Scriptures! In Matthew 25, Jesus is referring to adult behaviors of compassion.
Bible dictionaries define 'least' as 'most insignificant' . . . . the poor, the beggar, the imprisoned, the sick, etc. . . . . . .the ones to which Jesus was referring. OT
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David Arthur Lewis
Funny, but in my bible, Jesus does not specify that his comments are for adults only. If that were true, Christian schools should not exist.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Face it, flugo. The bible sucks!!!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Who knows what kind of kinky stuff Jesus might have been into, David.
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David Arthur Lewis
Oh, c'mon, Carl! Jesus was a rabbi, not a priest.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The only saying about that silly bible I like goes "When rolled right, the bible gives a good marijuana buzz."
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Rev Frankie PG
Blacks Law Dictionary defines Corporal Punishments as "Physical punishment as distinguished from pecuniary punishment or a fine; any kind of punishment of or inflicted on the body, such as whipping or the pillory; the term may or may not include imprisonment, according to the context. Ritchie v. People, 22 Colo. 251, 43 Pac. 1026; People v. Winchell. 7 Cow. (N. Y.) 525, note" Now I'm confused, spankings with clothing covering the buttocks is being considered Corporal Punishment? Spankings, standards, time-outs, forced to stand in a corner and more are all forms of corrective action that SHOULD BE endowed upon both by the government and the parents. We wonder why we're the laughing stock of the world when it comes to accountability for our wrongs and then jump on the opportunity to call corrective actions misdeeds when they're enacted upon? If this was this kids first time causing an infraction, especially "accidental damage" to school property then a spanking by the principal may have been overboard. HOWEVER, if this kid has been warned and/or disciplined before for past violations then it is DEFINITELY understandable. ANY responsible parent would've been happy to see that done, then taken the child home and did it themselves as well, ESPECIALLY in the Hispanic community, which this mother was obviously a part of. Hispanic parents were VERY well known for warning children that if the school ever affected punishment, then it would be much worse once that child got home. This is just another example of how parents are looking to score another buck wherever they can for neglecting their own responsibilities of being proper and attentive parents.
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Brian Scott Hoff
Spanking.. an excuse by lazy parents to "teach" their children to respect & listen to them or they will face violence. And, yes. My kids are in their 30's and the lack of spanking does not appear to have stunted them.
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Mark S Bailey
Exactly, when ones knowledge, as to how to deal with a situation, has been exusted then they resort to hitting. The reason why their knowledge is exausted is because they are not making the necessary effort to learn... "lazy".
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Aqilah Jackson
How does a school administrator have more rights over your child than you do??? In most states a parent who did this would be arrested. This is assault not punishment. On a side note be glad that wasn’t one of mine because there would be two tapes. One of him paddling my child, and one of me paddling him. The article said the mother didn’t speak English, so is there a racial component to this...?
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David Arthur Lewis
Of course there is a racial component. Let me be frank: White Boss Karen whips an uppity pickaninny.
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Bryan Bauman
I was punished one time I think it was In the 4th grade for being bullied . The 2 bullies got the paddle too. I’m for proper corporate punishment as long as the innocent isn’t caught up in it. I believe the thing thing for criminals as adults. What proof did the principal have that this child did the damage or was she sitting there when the damage was found?
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Rev Mark D
Get a grip. If someone had quoted some other set of aphorisms to make their point it would have been the same function, has nothing to do with the bible itself, just someone using their own meme to impart a source of wisdom for a lesson. Your prejudice is showing. For instance, I was going to say "If I did something like that to a computer, after getting paddled at school I'd get paddled at home just to make sure the message and respect lesson was learned. Yes mistakes happen. But also consequences happen to get our attention. And this kid suffered zero damage...only a damaged person would conclude otherwise, and they'd be projecting.
No harm was done and maybe a message about valuable things one does not own got through. Exactly within "In Loco Parentis" even if I wouldn't have done it that way myself.
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David Arthur Lewis
"No harm was done"????????? She hit that baby HARD. I'd bet the kid at least has broken blood vessels, and possibly bruised leg bones. If the bible justifies this, the bible is WRONG. If the law justifies this it is WRONG and MUST be changed.
The fact that you and I were beat as children does NOT make it right. Nor does it result in "Good" adults. I was beat every day for six years, both at school and at home, until I was big enough to hit back. It made me into a violent, angry man who still has no respect for Catholics. A parent who hits a child is a complete and utter FAILURE as a parent.
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Rev Mark D
Yes david, I can certainly believe that you are a violent angry man. Hope you get some help for it.
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Brad G Whitney
When I was spanked in anger by my mother, I was resentful.
I had to "unlearn" fear and anger. I still find it pops up from time to time but I have the tools to lock it back up and put a stronger 'lock' on the door to that room.
Amen.
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Juan Rolón Rosario
Oh my God!!! What the heck happens to the director, (excuse my expression) but it's outrageous, is she living in medieval times? Unfortunately it is a reprehensible action, I would like to say so many more things but I am going to reserve it and of course she must pay for her actions, that they do not enhance the education of the children.
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Ms. Darcy
I guess I am going to be the one here who disagrees and agrees. I agree with spanking ( hold on before you yell at me...) With your hand only, never a "weapon" , and ONLY the parent has that right!! So I disagree about who is doing the hitting, and with what!! But I agree with corporal punishment, only for the parent !! I have spanked my 3 children, the oldest whom is now 30 yrs of age and a mom herself. But I only ever used my hand, no belt, or paddle, or weapon of ANY kind. And if ANY other human tried to touch MY child, I'd have "spanked" them !!
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Anisahoni
If you hit a child with your hand, your hand is the weapon. People assault children when they are angry and have lost control, not when they are happy and feeling good. "Spanking" is a white washed word for child abuse. The use of your hand was a weapon which physically and emotionally hurt your child. Stop deluding yourself for justifying your abuse. It is meant to HURT the child. Yeah right, "teach them a lesson" That's really helpful and teaches kids that violence is how one solves a problem.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You're right, I could become vain and bitter, but in this case I seriously doubt it.
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taycomama
I oppose any form of corporal punishment. However, my issue in this case is that punishment is being used inappropriately when the right thing would be restitution. Punishment, whether corporal or otherwise (detention, suspension, whatever) should be to deter behavior patterns that might otherwise be repeated, such as talking out of turn, cheating, fighting, vandalism etc. This case was apparently accidental property damage. The appropriate response would be to require the parent to pay to repair the damage. An adult who accidentally damaged property would not be terrorized and beaten.
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Rev Frankie PG
ABC reported that she accidentally scratched a computer. What was the actual damage? Had she committed an offense before? Those are things that the defense liar...lawyer...should be bringing up during the legal proceedings. I believe this post is '[w]hat do you make of the video? Is corporal punishment ethical, or should violence against kids be outlawed entirely?" I agree with you in regards to "...require the parent to pay to repair the damage" but once again that brings me back to the true damage and had she committed an offense before? CNN brazenly reported that the riots were mostly peaceful while a building was burning behind them. Can we really trust the media to provide all of the facts?
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Vincenza Dio te Mantegna
I'm a pastor and I do believe in the Bible way of raising children. Though people take it to the extreme. If that principal hit one of my children , especially my biracial daughter my foot would be so far up her behind , they'd have to send a search party to look for it. That's child abuse out right. Shame on anyone thinking differently.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm not very fluent in Italian, but had a great grandfather named Vincenzo Maniscalco who lived with our family for the first five of the last six years of his life. So I know that Vincenzo is Cicilian for Vincent, and the letter A at the end of a noun refers to something female. I also know that door means god. So Vincenza, are you claiming to be the god or goddess of Mantegna?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The Android poltergeist changed the word dio to door in my above comment to Vincenza. Please but this correction below it. Thanks.
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Lionheart
I'm very curious Vincenza, if you believe in the Bible and the ways of God, do you also believe in stoning people to death, and slavery of human beings, which he also condoned? If not, why would you go against what you believe in the Bible? How do you determine what to believe and accept, and what not to believe and accept, if it goes against your god?
🦁♥️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If one of my gods did something I couldn't accept I'd get another god with similar attributes, from a different pantheon. There are many complete pantheons to choose from. Although we should honor our gods and goddesses, there's no need to worship thwm, like a woman in our bedrooms, for crying out loud! They are always replaceable with deities that are better suited for our particular needs.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Enslavement and spanking is only good as a game played between consenting, adult spouses in their bedroom.
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Gale Paris Hahn
Disciplining a child is the parents responsibility. I do believe a swat on the butt, to get their attention, works. Nobody touches my child!
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Joanna Whitney
Wearing masks, social distancing and fear mongering of fake science is all corporeal punishment
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Cynthia Jean Parker
Amen
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Aron Mark Doherty
How do you even get dressed in the morning? So much stupid.
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Joanna Whitney
I don’t see how forcing children to wear masks and to social distance is any less destructive than this current definition of corporal punishment— and yet cognitive dissonance keeps everyone under that mind control
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Robert A Stiff
There are none so blind as those who will not see. How you can twist your mind into equating beating a child to taking precautions during a pandemic that has killed millions world-wide is seriously mind boggling. Right-wingers never fail to stun me with their illogic.
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Rev Frankie PG
I never called Trump a Saint because he's far from it. HOWEVER putting Trump in the same category as Hitler is absolutely audacious. In the last 30 years that I've been paying attention we've had no President that was perfect (ie- I did not have actual relations with that woman, watch my lips no new taxes, COVID will be gone by Easter, ISIS is a JV League, etc). Every 4 years we have to decide if we want dumb or dumber and then just hope for the best. I NEVER saw Trump aim in dividing good American citizens of any color apart. Maybe you can educate me?
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Deborah du Boulay Theresa du Boulay
January 6th.
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Rafael Picon
I hav mix feelings . Talking sense to “some” children sometimes doesn’t work . I was hit as a kid but I was not abused . I understood the wrath of my parents more than a winded lecture . I also feel that millennials and X generations were coddled and pampered way too much
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CB
You are right!
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Maria
This is totally wrong! I’m not a violent person, but if anyone had done this to my child I would have grabbed the nearest thing I could find and start beating the crap out of her!! NO one NO one has the right to touch YOUR child! School is for teaching math science etc...the home is for teaching discipline. And parents need to discipline their children without beating.
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Julie Armstrong
I completely agree with you . We would be in jail together!. Beating children only teaches them it's ok to beat when mad or angry and the violence continues from generation to generation. I was beat when younger and I caught myself one day with my oldest child repeating the habit of violence. I stopped and never to be repeated. I do agree on light spanking and hand slaps when toddlers when learning. That's as far as it goes. Cleaning all the baseboards in the house is a great way to punish when older and house gets clean
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Christian
Do No Harm. Love one another. Teachable moment : give child a computer kit - her task , assemble it, install the O.S. & programs. You learn the greatest respect for the value of things when you must build it yourself. When children want a toy, give them lego blocks and tell them to make one... then you are raising Producers & engineers, builders and creators - not careless consumers. Model Kits, 3D printers, Estes Rocket kits, clothing dye kits, Create & be Creative. What she learned is: bigger can harm smaller, strong can attack the weak.
The school officials best pray she does not hold a grudge, seeking vengence later, when she is larger & stronger than them ! Follow the ways of kindness and learning...
If she made a mess - then she has to clean the classroom. EDUCATE, Teach, not attack.
The computer is junk. Her soul, beloved by God.
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Christian
Do No Harm. Teachable moments : have her assemble a computer kit, install the OS & programs. Build & Create. Models, Estes rockets, kits, be creative in arts & crafts, and cleaning and service. No paddles, just kindness. Love is the answer.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I bet Lionheart will have a lot to say about this subject. I can hardly wait.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I wonder if flugo can tell me whatever happened to Bob Fleutsch.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Bob Fleutsch was a corrupt principal, who could use a good sodomizing, in the name of Jesus! Defend that, flugo!!!
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Lionheart
I remember getting the cane at school, and also the "slipper", which was not a slipper at all but a trainer shoe on my backside. For the most part we were always very good boys in his class.
🦁♥️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Now they're telling me to not distress myself with dark imaginings. I was just having some fun with flukie flugo.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You're right again. Thank you.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Please tell me teacher are the answers to all my problems contained within the Desiderata?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm going to have to ponder that one.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You're so right, and that has been my weakness.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It is best to go placidly amid the noice and haste, but peace is not always in silence. I sometimes agree more with Tears For Fears than Max Ehrman, in the song that goes "Shout, shout, let it all out! These are the things I can do without! Come on, I'm talking to you. Come on".
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
The mother did the right thing by filming and publishing the event. If she had tried to stop it, not speaking English, the teachers could have charged her with assault.
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Michelle Mclaughlin
The mother could have opted to stop the principal or grab her child-she chose not to. She opted to instead create a video in hopes of it being viral.
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Brian Scott Hoff
Your narrative is showing. I'm sure your version makes the spanking worth it.
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Ronaldo
When my children were too young to understand the concept of punishment, such as removal of privileges or being confined to a room, a swat on the backside or the hand got their attention and helped train them. The spankings stopped as soon as they understood that other forms of punishment were meted out because of their actions. If schools required detention, suspension, or even expulsion for "crimes" committed by children in their care, and they ensured that the children being punished knew it was due to their actions, there would be no need for corporal punishment. Having to locate alternate child care for a suspended child would be enough of a hardship on many parents that they would take steps to ensure it did not happen again. A shepherd rarely has to beat his sheep. The great majority of the time, he uses the rod to guide his flock, not punish them. A lack of proper guidance is the main reason why these children act out and disobey the rules, especially for the repeat offenders. Sadly, most of that lack takes place in the homes, but the schools often get blamed for not being able to "control the children".
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Michelle Mclaughlin
Under some conditions I find this to be completely acceptable.
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Jeffrey Stoecker
Taking this principal's career away, although it might be a satisfying knee jerk, will only drive this kind of thing into the shadows. Just offer, if he wants to keep his job, to paddle him -- publicly -- in the school auditorium. That seems fair, since he broke the law and believes in "the rod." If he refuses, well... Bye.
The whole way that it played-out, with the parent brought there to view it seems VERY strange -- almost like the display was intended for her. Sort of a "See what happens if you don't socialize your kid" -- Scared-into-straight-parenting thing.
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Russell Edward Planck
I am 84 years old and all I can say it that it worked on me. It prepared me for 21 years of military service where much worse than the little piece of wood was applied when ignoring orders.
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Ellen B. Wentzel
The "rod" is discipline meant to guide the child to do the right thing. It is NOT literally a big stick to beat the kid.
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Peter Eugene Cypher
As a youth I was quite literally introduced to the board of education. It was (board policy that it had to be) 30 inches long, 4 inches wide and had 1 inch holes drilled through it. I survived, no counseling needed and I believe that I am a better person because of that. A reminder that if you do something wrong there is a price to pay.
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Mark S Bailey
"If you do something wrong there is a price to pay" correct but the consequence for that wrong doing must relate to the doing... if not it will have no educational values. e.g. if a child is spanked for disrespectful behavior what is the child learning about disrespectful behavior? Nothing. Why? Because a spanking is not a real to life consequence for disrespectful behavior. Spanking is an effective deterrent however not a cure, that is one problem, outside of that it causes more harm than good thus no longer suggested. We have more effective ways to deal with unwanted behavior that show no unwanted side effects thus such pain and fear (torchure) tactics are totally unnecessary... all people need to do is learn and that is the problem we are having, getting people to learn, understand and do.
As mentioned corporal punishent is an effective deterrent but not a cure. The thing is with the use of deterrents (unrelated forms of correction) they only show high success rates when the threat of a deterrent is present... elsewhere the child/individual tend to repeat the unwanted behavior. When stimulants (behavior related consequences) are used this does not happen.
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William Francis Foley
Yes, the Bible speaks of Spare The Rod. Spoil the child. However, what is really the meaning of Rod? Rod is referring to discipline, not some manmade item. Then, we need to understand the tone of voice, and what is really being said. Is it not a plea to spare the rod, and spoil the child?
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William Francis Foley
Yes, the Bible speaks of Spare The Rod. Spoil the child. However, what is really the meaning of Rod? Rod is referring to discipline, not some manmade item. Then, we need to understand the tone of voice, and what is really being said. Is it not a plea to spare the rod, and spoil the child?
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Mark S Bailey
What does the "Bible" say?... The Bible is a lost book. For one much of it is missing, outside of that it has never been accuratly translated... lost languages. To date we have over 43,000 intrepretations of the Bible(?) being preached. The Bible is the most misunderstood book in the world. Back in biblical times the rod/staff was a symbol for authority... meaning to be authoritative in this case... does not mean actually hitting a helpless child. Nowhere in the Bible is the rod/staff actually used to stike another individual... it is only used in a symbolic way... the only exception to that is when it was used in evil/unholly ways.
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Cynthia Jean Parker
Spanking has its place. But this was not a spanking like I got in school one time. The child obviously lacks discipline or she would not have deliberately damaged a computer. Her mother needs advice before this kid grows up to be a destructive self indulgent handful or worse. HOWEVER, this paddle is an excessive tool even for a adult! Some schools reserve the right for corporal punishment and parents know. BUT this on a small girl? No way. Sadistic! I have to quit here. This was just wrong.
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Elizabeth P. King
This occurred near my community. It has come out that the mother requested the spanking which was reported to be light. Personally, I think a well placed wack sends a message to shape up and pay attention. Time outs don’t always work. Beatings are not, and never will be, acceptable.
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Mark S Bailey
Time outs were suggested back in the 50's later it was found that they only worked when they related to the behavior. Today behavior related correction/consequences are being suggested. The time out era was wiped out by the professionals decades ago.
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Mark S Bailey
First, the statement "something words alone cannot replicate" is not a description of what professionals are suggesting. Professionals "are not" saying to "use words alone"! People are being told to replace pain and fear tactics with more effective forms of correction. People are being advised to use forms of discipline that "relate to the behavior"... that does not mean only talking. .... It is of the utmost importance that children "experience" consequences for their doings but real to life consequences "not" fantasy consequences... the use of pain and fear tactics being one of them.
THE BIBLE IS THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD BOOK IN THE WORLD...
The book of Proverbs uses the word “rod" several times and is defined as a metal bar, a staff, a branch, a club, or a mark of authority, a symbol of authority in a symbolic way; for example, we use the scales to symbolize justice. Thus this can be interpreted in two ways... 1. An instrument used to strike a child or 2. The act of disciplining your child by being consequent and authoritative; not giving in and being consequent... Thus the use of the word “rod” is symbolizing strength and authority or being consequent “but not actually striking the child”. The Bible does not teach acts of evil nor acts that spread or create evil and striking people (including children) does precisely that; thus I believe that interpretation Nr. 2 is correct. If the word “rod” is interpreted as a symbol of authority, then the Bible is saying the same thing that professionals we have proven. We must also consider that nowhere in the entire Bible is the rod used to strike anybody except for acts of evil/unholy.
Spanking promotes unwanted and not to mention evil behavior and has a growing list of unwanted side effects; there is absolutely no doubt about this. Since there are more effective forms of disciplinary actions, we do not need it. In every country where spanking has been replace with harder and more educational forms of discipline ... real to life forms discipline the criminal rates especially violent acts are going down. I prefer to think that the Bible has been telling us the truth the whole time. We can say that the Bible is wrong or we can say that "some" made a mistake interpreting/translating it. Bear in mind that to date, the Bible has not been accuratly translated (to date well over 43,000 intrepretations are being preached, not to mention much of it is missing. Choose as you wish but rest assured the future is guaranteeing harsh consequences for people resorting to this act of evil (corporal punishment) on children.. It is a good time to look into what the professionals are "really" saying on this subject. In my opinion they have proven the Bible right but that all depends on what somebody has led you to believe.
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Michael S Cope
Well. That is a tuff call. If it damaged the computer... then the parents pay for its repair. No damage... then no computer access for a week. She didn't need to swing so much. She should be fired and loose her teaching license. Let mom /day walk the butt. After... the pay for the damage.
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Laurie Rice
Interestingly these people forget about the Old Testament until it fits their purpose. Uh, these hypocritical Xtains make me spit. How do they know it wasn't an instruction such as spare the rod and spoil the child meaning kids are meant to be spoiled and rods are meant to be spared.
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Laurie Rice
Interestingly these people forget about the Old Testament until it fits their purpose. Uh, these hypocritical Xtains make me spit. How do they know it wasn't an instruction such as spare the rod and spoil the child meaning kids are meant to be spoiled and rods are meant to be spared.
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Laurie Rice
Interestingly these people forget about the Old Testament until it fits their purpose. Uh, these hypocritical Xtains make me spit. How do they know it wasn't an instruction such as spare the rod and spoil the child meaning kids are meant to be spoiled and rods are meant to be spared.
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Marie Diana Briguglio
Florida!!!
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James Edward Hagopian
all I can say on this matter I was raised in the generation of this going on .now since I'm an adult this whole entire form of punishment has psychological damage me from childhood to adult and I cannot shake the feeling of being hurt by adult .you cannot punish a child with an object or with your hands to correct them all you ever do is more damage than what's being done by their behavior maybe as an adult we must teach them another way no matter which way you look at it that is violence on a child
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Julie Armstrong
I believe this is totally wrong. Punishment as such (I THOUGHT) was outlawed years ago. As parents we can't correct our kids by spanking or we will get our children taken away. What right does a school have. to correct children in such a manner? 6yrs old seriously? What they heck are they using computers for at that age. Pencil and paper! A 6yr old does not know how expensive or anything about computers. They can't even remember their password at 8 yrs old. Honestly if that would have been my child, I would have been arrested for grabbing the paddle and whacking the crap out of the principal and anyone helping hold them down
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Rabbi Francine MacHotka
It’s not a rod. That’s the wrong interpretation. It’s a twig & must be small enough to bend like what you’d use for a marshmallow at a fire. That’s the correct translation. My kids use a bendable plastic flip flop on the bottom in the same way. The idea is small, soft & bendable.
The spanking if necessary should be on their bottom with the child bent over a lap & held with one hand so they can’t fall and never done in anger so the child sees mom or dad out of control. There should be a cooling off time with the child in their room & parents holding off any spanking if they’re upset.
My kids got off my lap and laughed at me when they out grew it. They still remind me how they laughed at my “spanking”.
At 12 they’re supposed to be ready to understand right from wrong. That’s not to say stop discipline but that you have to find another way. My kids never had bruises or slap marks or broken bones. All of that is child abuse.
There are other verses that say each child is different & some are ok for verbal warnings or other forms of discipline.
No school should use corporal punishment. It’s a parent’s choice.
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Rabbi Francine MacHotka
I absolutely abhor verbal abuse of any kind & this principle called her a brat. I hate that she did that, also. There’s no place for that in raising or teaching a child.
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Rabbi Francine MacHotka
By the way, in Hebrew there are different words for child that show the age group & gender.
The age group & gender for the “rod” verses is a boy in his youth. I would say between 8 & 11. The Hebrew word is na’ar.
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Rev. Howard Slayton
I believe there is a time and place for corporal punishment. If a kid is way out of line, refusing to direct orders and not following directions and behaving poorly, then you may correct them with the paddle. But this little girl would have learned her lesson, by the principal having a chat with her. There needs to be a good reason to spank. If the paddle is your only means through which you disciple youth, you must have a very narrow mind. And it’s no wonder Johnny can’t read. He goes to a narrow minded school! They probably teach Johnny word recognition instead of phonetics.
Wow...spare the rod huh? Are you really willing to give your parental rights to just anyone? Anyone who works for the school, the church, the coach of your child's team?
Not me!
That damn, evil nun principal, Sister Miriam started paddling my tender, young culo in first grade. It's no wonder, by fourth grade, as an altar boy, I started getting drunk on communion wine, before mass. I sure had a lot of fun on that altar.
The Catholic nuns I encountered as a child were, I seriously believe, all former concentration camp guard trainees. Their absolute glee in butt smacking their charges was obscene. I survived their cruelty and began to study what religion promotes and condones this behavior. Turns out it was mostly just two; Christianity and Islam. And from these years of reading and study I came to the conclusion that ALL religions are stuff and nonsense. If you believe, good for you. But I insist you allow more enlightened people the right to disagree.
👍
'jean howlow': The Bible says (Romans 13) authority is ordained by God and we are to obey it, respect it; and pray for our authority figures . . . from the parental level up to the president of our country.. In many states, school personnel are 'de-facto parents' while the student in engaged in school functions. Children must be taught these precepts. As a school teacher and principal, I used a wooden paddle an numerous (little and large) miscreants, public and private schools. By enrolling their student in those schools, parents permitted corporal discipline by certain school staff. AND, in schools permitting corporal discipline, attendance is higher, academic success higher and the drop-out rates lower.
When Mom says 'Be home at 10:30', do it. When the boss says show up at 7:45, don't be late. When the cop says 'Stop', . . . stop! When the governor says wear masks, wear 'em. When the President says 'Go to Viet Nam', . . . go! When God says 'Thou shalt not . . . ' obey! Think of the lives saved and tragedies averted if authority was respected.
(By the way, the above 'offending' school officials were out of line by violating school policy. . . . . for not respecting their authority figures.))
flugo...what? authority is not let those in charge do as they will. I will not give my authority to anyone who thinks authority is the be all and end all of action in this world.
When people stop thinking for themselves and just follow like sheep, we end up with more disaster than those who question and follow their hearts.
Sorry, but I won't be able to ever go there.
Jeanette Harlow agree this id how we get Hitlers and trumps ....
letting them have unquestioned authority. Swats are useful but only if used rarely when it becomes common the fear lessens .
It never was really about hurting it was about shaming ohhhh you got swats . At 6 y/o 1 swat was more than enough .
All too many parents today depend on everyone else holding their child responsible but then freak out When someone actually dose something to enforce rules .
We need to start holding mommy responsible for misbehavior a fine or few days of work release jail time . Maybe just maybe mom will teach her child to mind reasonable rules.
@Stewart - your post has me torn, first I ADAMANTLY disagree with putting Hitler and Trump on the same scale. For example, Trump REPEATEDLY called for unity of all good persons (ie- law abiders) to stand up to those that were evil doers (ie- law breakers), Hitler's call was of race domination. If you couldn't see that about Trump then I suggest to do that little funny thing called research and not just look upon other to tell you all of the facts.
On the other hand I agree with you that, "all too many parents today depend on everyone else holding their child responsible." If there were more Baltimore moms then kids wouldn't need to be disciplined by outside environments BUT because MANY people FAIL as parents, society really has no other choice. Now I'll admit that I was a bad kid and I got spanked both at home and at school, which is probably why I like it so much today...that's a different story...I believe that in addition to the spankings, if I would've been sat down and dialogue would've taken place then I more than likely wouldn't have done over half of the bad deeds I did as a child.
As a Brit, i am horrified at this, Simple rule, if you want to chastise my child, ok, but if you are going to use a weapon to Assault my child, which is exactly what this is, the principle used a weapon to assault someone smaller, weaker, less able to defend themselves, And if it was my child, i would not have stood and filmed it, the principle would be picking their teeth up off the floor, and i would not have used a weapon to do it. Chastising is one thing, physical assault is another
It was wrong because it went against the policies of the school system however, I wouldn’t consider a pinewood paddle as an assault weapon. Paddles are actually more humane than using an open hand, and spread out the impact area creating more of a frightening noise than pain.
She obviously also did not use a terrific amount of force either, and certainly was not attempting to harm the child in any form of severity.
Again, it was wrong because it was against the rules, but we do not know and we were not shown all of the circumstances leading up to that moment.
I’ve been to college and I have pledged a fraternity, I am more than familiar with the paddle on a much more intricate level...
Hitler/Trump ok you can’t relate then try The anti Christ!!! Trump has created the largest cult known to man with its ok to lie on top of his greatest hits!!! Florida Trump nasty behavior etc etc etc!!! Ignorance is bliss!!! Good luck!
truth
Clearly you have been brainwashed by mainstream media and have done zero research.
Frank Peter Guarino: You, like so many on the right, have drunk the Trump Kool-Aid and are seemingly blind to his many transgressions while in office and out. Is he in the same league as Hitler? No, but he employs the same lies and anti-democratic tactics. Give the man the chance and you can kiss democracy goodbye.
It’s a shame how some people still can’t get over the fact that Donald Trump WAS elected President of the United States by the voters of our nation. I voted for President Trump; does that make me a Nazi?
This topic has zero to do with #DonaldTrump and it should remain that way.
Would it be right of me to place blame on #Biden for the gas pipeline shutdown and say that This is what happens when we have weak leadership like Carter, Clinton, Obama, and Biden?
God Bless You and may God Bless the Child.
It's probably a good thing they don't have downvoting on this site.
The answer to your first question is yes.
Comment removed by user.
WOW! Just wow! You are one very sick individual. You must get off on hurting children. Do you masturbate about it afterward?
Flugo here once said in a comment some time back that they would happily rape their own mother or sister if they did not have their faith in god. So it should not surprise us they think god empowers them to do harm to children.
Flugo you have just admitted to beinga serial abuser of children, I wont forget that either and be sure to remind everyone of it on this forums along with your barely contained desire to commit rape.
'darles': Have you forgotten?! All consequences of disobedience, sin, illegality, etc. involves 'hurt'!
Run a stop sign - pocket book hurt. Unfaithful to spouse - feelings, trust is 'hurt'. Cheat on test - personal integrity is damaged, 'hurt'.
Being 'hurt' gets one's attention, provides an opportunity to examine one's behavior, attitude, etc. 'Hurt'/pain is profitable when the result is a positive change.
The Bible, God's Word espouses corporal discipline, because the resultant hurt is meant to promote improved lifestyle, get one back on track.
(My comments are general in nature, because none of us know all the details of this ULCM posting.)
And, by the way, your personal insinuations are churlish, immature, and evidence your inability to objectively and scholarly confront an issue.
Your imaginary old man in the sky does not exist. The bible is just an old book of mythology used to justify cruelty, abuse, slavery, misogyny, human sacrifice, and hate crimes. Time to put Christ back in Christians!
@David- if that's what you choose to believe, then so be it, why would you chastise another for believing in the The Bible? The Bible, I'll admit has been interpreted by man SEVERAL times, causing flaws to exist. The songs and even the pledge to the Holy Bible says to make the Bible a light onto my path, they never say that it's the only word and when people believe that, it is their choice.
As for the "...imaginary old man in the sky...", if that's what you choose to believe, then so be it. Once again, who are you to chastise another for their belief?
Glad you're back flukie flugo, but I wonder who let you out of your cage.
God did not write the Bible.
Flukie Flugo, the only bible I ever care to read, which was written by the greatest of all Popes Anton Lavey states that we should do unto others as they do unto us. And that makes much more sense than what is stated on that subject in your silly Christian bible, which was written by paranoid schizophrenics who were then called prophets. And I swear I would never do unto you as I would have you do unto me, for that would mean you would have never existed. However, you belong here just as much as the rest of us, atleast to give the rest of us something to disagree with. It takes all kinds in this world. And I, for one, thrive on diversity.
@Carl - you thrive on diversity yet just chastised all religions that believe greatly upon the "silly Christian bible"?
The outcome of the "remedy" of paddling is unpredictable. If it were a prescription, the warnings of potential side effects would be long. They would include: Potential darkening of a child's heart, Possible latent need for psychotherapy by recipient, Possible invoked schism in child's parental unit. May result in unpredictable elevation of a child's social status, or in social ostracism. NOT TO BE ADMINISTERED TO CHILDREN WITH SUICIDAL TENDENCIES. Corporal punishment should not be used when: A. recipient "looked at you cross ways" B. you "don't like the cut of their jib" C. "there's something off about that kid" D."an example must be made" E. recipient "needs to learn respect." WARNING! Use of this remedy may result in loss of tenure, demotion, or firing. Use of this remedy may result in legal fees, incarceration, future unpleasant incarnations and potential damnation. Becoming an internet meme and/or never being able to eat a meal out without wondering if it has spittle in it often follow the application of this remedy.
Flugo sounds like a corrupt, outspoken teacher and principal who never reprimanded, so he thinks he was in the right, most similarly to some pedophile Catholic priests I've heard of.
Fine. Corporal punishment is allowed in this state,but not in this school District? My question is this. If legal, how many swats does it take before it becomes child brutality?
Spanking has its place. But this was not a spanking like I got in school one time. The child obviously lacks discipline or she would not have deliberately damaged a computer. Her mother needs advice before this kid grows up to be a destructive self indulgent handful or worse. HOWEVER, this paddle is an excessive tool even for a adult! Some schools reserve the right for corporal punishment and parents know. BUT this on a small girl? No way. Sadistic! I have to quit here. This was just wrong.