A priest walks into a convent, and propositions two nuns to help him recreate the holy trinity by having a threesome with him.
It sounds like the start of a bad joke, but it's allegedly something that really happened...
A former nun is accusing a Slovenian priest who is believed to be a close associate of Pope Francis of abusing his position of power and pressuring her and another nun into having a threesome and watching pornography.
Abuse of Power
The priest in question is Marko Ivan Rupnik, now 68. Rupnik is perhaps best known in the Catholic world for his artwork, primarily his mosaics; Some of his pieces are on display in chapels in the Vatican.
One of the former nuns recently told an Italian newspaper that, as spiritual director of a Slovenian convent in the late 1980s and early 1990s, he groomed her and pressured her into sex by exploiting his power and invoking God.
“Father Marko started slowly and sweetly getting inside my psychological and spiritual world, exploiting my uncertainties and fragility and using my relationship with God to push me into sexual experiences with him,” the nun explained. “It was truly an abuse of conscience.”
The abuses took place between 1987 and 1994, she claims. At one point, she says he used his ‘psycho-spiritual powers’ to pressure her into a threesome with another nun.
The threesome, he told her, would bring them all closer to God by recreating the Holy Trinity – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost – in bed.
The nun speculates that Rupnik abused as many as 20 women, likely pressuring them into sex and then bullying them into silence, just like she claims he did to her.
Deaf Ears
The nun says this isn’t the first time she’s brought up the allegations against Rupnik – just the first time anyone’s listened to them.
She says she tried to report his behavior in the early 90s, but no one in Catholic leadership cared. She speculates that her claims were ignored because Rupnik’s career as a highly regarded artist within the church was taking off.
That may finally change now. Rupnik and Pope Francis are believed to be close, and both are Jesuits. The allegations prompted outrage in the Jesuit order, and Pope Francis has asked for other victims to come forward as he tries to piece together both a timeline and the truth.
It was also recently revealed by Jesuit leadership that Rupnik was excommunicated in 2020 after absolving a woman of sin following an alleged sexual encounter he had with her.
But just months later, Rupnik was mysteriously and quickly reinstated. This revelation has only thrown fuel on the fire.
What happens next is still up in the air. The Catholic Church has been reckoning with many sins of its past in recent years, which means it likely has a playbook for this sort of thing by now.
What is your reaction? How will the Vatican navigate this latest scandal?
57 comments
-
John D. Partin
You can find a Catholic defense against your charges of the Catholic Church's being "totally corrupt" in Catholic Truth on YouTube under Catholic Corruption and the Protestant Revolution and Is Catholicism Evil?, unless you are too afraid to go and look at it and hear what he has to say, as we know that you are, for fear that it will shake up your little world and destroy your bigotry against Catholicism. At least, other people here will get some benefit out of it and come out of their bigotry, if they are more open than you are to letting the Church tell its side and being fair-minded and reasonable. Since you persist in focusing only on any wrongdoing in the Church and not considering or listening to or reading any defense from the Church for all of that, you must think that it is "right" for you to do so, and so must think that it would be right to have that done to you, too, and only what you have done that is wrong to be focused on and condemned, and no good things that you have done to be paid any attention to at all!! If you aren't operating on a double standard (which, of course, you are!!), that is what you must think would be right to do right back to you!! You could only have that double standard if you aren't even capable of understanding Jesus' straightforward statements to do unto others as you would have others do unto you, and with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged, and the measure with which you mete shall be measured to you again, and love your neighbor as yourself or just don't care about anything that he said. Which would make you as bad as those people in the Church who don't care about that, either. Some bad decisions made by the administration of St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital or any other Catholic hospitals or charities simply don't overwhelm the saving of children from cancer or any other good works, as long as those works are still going on, but are just misjudgements and mistakes, such as all other people make. Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone. Mistakes of some people in the Church don't overwhelm the far greater good example and practice of Catholicism of St. Francis of Assisi and the thousands of other Catholic Saints, as is just obvious, since there are far more of them than there are of these fake or mistaken "Catholics" and they have had far more impact on the world than these false apostles or wrong thinking or acting people have!!
-
John D. Partin
In the first place, an anti-Catholic, such as yourself, is always going to say that any good that the Catholic Church is doing is "trivial" and "insignificant" and that the evil that it is doing is "overwhelming" and "far outweighs any good from the Church" because your hatred of the Church won't allow you to be objective and fair-minded enough to see it any other way!! The Pharisees'hatred of Jesus wouldn't allow them to see him as anything other than "a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of the harlots and tax collectors (meaning that they thought that he was having sex with prostitutes)" and someone "who casts out devils by the prince of devils Beelzebub" and whatever else that they could falsely say to discredit and defame him! If even Christ himself, who never did anything but love people and do good for them, didn't escape that slander and bigotry against him by people who hated him, none of his followers in the Catholic Church are going to escape that, either! Jesus even told us that that would happen when he said "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own" (John 15:18-25) "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!". (Matthew 18:7). I won't believe your bigotry about Catholics anymore than any other bigotry against people. Secondly, if you aren't telling me that St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital has stopped entirely treating children with cancer, which even such bigotry as yours won't let you believe about it, then just such bad judgments of some people connected with the hospital and your overblowing that out of all proportions into "the whole hospital is a scam", as Jesus told us would happen, are irrelevant!! The good of saving children from cancer is still happening, despite Satan's trying to discredit that good work and your going along with his trying to discredit that good work, as you naturally would, as one of Satan's helpers and followers in this world!! As I have already told you, any scandals going on in the Catholic Church are also going on in the Protestant churches because Satan hates them and wants to discredit them, too, and keep people away from any truth anywhere. Look at the Jimmy Swaggart sex scandal, the Jim and Tammy Fay Baker scandals, Jim Jones and the People's Temple in Guyana and their mass suicide, and all the other scandals in Protestant churches and the Reformation. So, if the scandals in the Catholic Church make it "not Christian or worthless", the scandals in the Protestant churches and the Reformation do the same thing to them!! I'm not saying that the sinning in the Protestant churches make the sinning in the Catholic Church okay, but only that we are all sinful human beings and so shouldn't be accusing each other back and forth, but should be helping each other to overcome our sins, as Christ would want us to do and be his true followers. To answer your question: I wouldn't send my loved ones to be treated by a known child molester or rapist, but it is also evil to just assume that all priests are child molesters and rapists because some of them are and not an assumption that you would want people to jump to about you or doing unto them as you would have others do unto you!! One sin doesn't justify another sin. The goodness in the Catholic Church still far outweighs the evil being done in it, despite Satan's and your attempt to focus only on the evil and exaggerate and maximize it, and ignore and downplay the good in the Church and minimize it!! Many people don't even need scandals in the Church to leave it because their own fallen human natures make them leave the Church, due to their not wanting to hear the truth. This is the judgment! Light has come into the world, but men preferred the darkness over the light because their deeds were evil, and they just use scandals to cover up their real reason for leaving. Anti-Catholicism, such as yours, has led to violence against Catholics in the past, from the Know Nothing Party and the Nativists in America (look it up!) and from The Church of England, and may do so again. As Rod Serling narrated at the end of The Twilight Zone episode "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street", March 6, 1960: The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices --- to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own --- for the children and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to The Twilight Zone.
-
Constance Diane Wilcher
They will sweep it under the rug and cover it up as always. Christianity looks at women as second class citizens. This is why women have no real power within the religion. Man put woman beneath them. Foolish belief that women are made only for servitude towards men and reproduction. This has been the way since the beginning of Christianity and not likely to change.
-
Donald J. Winfield
It's time that Catholic Priests were treated like what every human being is. A man. They should be able to marry whatever gender they prefer. (Also, women should be given full priesthood.) Nuns should likewise have their sexuality recognized and approved. Being accused of sinning for acting on the one instinct that's stronger than anyone's faith, needs to go. This would negate the need for a horny Priest to coerce nuns into sex, and largely decrease their offending against children. It won't stop pedophiles, but provides an outlet for the natural sex drive of more normal priests.
-
DubSpell
While I do agree with the concept of more normalized sexuality and balamcedgender representation amongst church clergy, "...What every human being is. A man." -Does not compute. I am woman and mighty glad for it. These men choose their lifestyle knowing what comes with it for the prestige. And then abuse said prestige. Hypocrisy and abuse of power is the real problem here, I would say.
-
-
P. Keith Benefiel
That's what nuns get for dressing in such a suggestive manner.
-
Cindi
I believe her. After all, my mother attended a Catholic boarding school back in the 1940's. She told me stories of how the nuns abused children by hitting them with a measuring yard stick if they disagreed with them. She also found out that the Priest was having intimate relations with most of the nuns there. One day, she overheard 2 nuns speaking of how they had to bury a child that was aborted. So, yes, I believe her and God knows the truth! If he doesn't get his just rewards here, he will on the other side.
-
Warren Calvin Wall
I vote for a good, old fashioned stoning! I'd bet that would make the rest sit up and take notice. ;)
-
Merlin
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
-
Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
Anybody familiar with Slovenia will know that this is a very mild case.
-
Scott Batchelor
Apparently he had some bad habits...
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You're right about that, Ehrman. Many people do have high ideals, but don't expect to find that much ong the Catholic clergy. I've known atleast a few of them who were very good people, but there can be no doubt about them all being sexually deprived. And when a sexually deprived priest comes on to a sexually deprived nun, those high ideals go out the door, until they start thinking about what they have done. And they couldn't possibly see wrong in their own pristine selves, so they blame it on their studs for coming on to them.
-
Rev Mark D
Take away their tax exempt status and they'll fix it.
Meanwhile, as to "The threesome, he told her, would bring them all closer to God by recreating the Holy Trinity – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost – in bed." This has got to be the most creative con story in an extremely long time... I mean, this one is so clever it makes me think of televangelist rather than priests. Not to say anything because of the fear of woke retribution, but Jesus Christ, how gullible do you have to be to fall for something that far out, this one is way past the edge of the Flat Earth.
As far for his being reinstated and getting away with 50 of these pattern abuses and slavery ongoing relations, attacks, domestic terrorism, I can see why the church reinstated him: at least these cases apparently weren't minors. I mean, comparatively, I'm sure they could manage to make the point that that is an improvement, especially since the ones deciding such things are perverted predators themselves, I'm sure they had some moral misgivings about excommunicating one of their own kind. Anyway they have this automatic get out of jail thing going: "Say three Hail Marys."
-
Rev Frankie PG
First, I am extremely grateful that this psycho isn't another pedophile amongst their ranks. Second, this psycho needs to be excommunicated permanently as well as any others that create this type of harm upon victims. Third, I hope this psycho gets incarcerated and has a Prison Trinity, with him in the middle. Psychos and predators are everywhere and despite your connection or influence you should always stay vigilant and ready to protect yourself and others... See Something, Say Something.
-
Nicholas J Page
Strange how the church cover up the paedos who abuse little boys.Then when it all comes out all The Catholic Church just apologise.No body gets defrocked,given a prison sentence,a fine and the churchmen should have a lifetime ban serving the church etc.The pope makes me sick I'm so sorry.It won't ever happen again then after a few months it starts all over again.All church leaders should run a background check on everybody serving or waiting to serve It will never happen.Corruption and hush money involved
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Wouldn't it be funny if priests started impregnating nuns. They probably have already, but those pregnant nuns all got secret abortions.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Or maybe the priests and nuns put their babies in Catholic orphanages, when they're running low.
-
-
-
Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
Why are most articles posted on this cite sensational gossip, and usually negative toward Christianity? I know the unbelievers love it, but guess what there are millions of good stories about the good in Christianity.
-
Rev. Dr. Father JJ
so many of you have a martyr complex, if people don't bow down to crz chins and acknowlege their self-perceived superiority they are being picked on. Maybe just drop the pretense, call for the death of all non-crz chns and be done with it. It's what you want...and believe
-
Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
Very strange and unintelligible comment. BTW just your site name shows your disdain for Christians. You need not to comment; just put your name with . . . . We will already know what you think.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Waldron, I'm only referencing the people I've come in contact with, here in the USA. Ive never heard a non Christian tell a good story about Christianity. I've seldom ever heard members of other religions say anything about Christianity, but have heard very many Christians badmouth other religions. Personally, I can't think of anything nice to say about Christianity.
-
Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
Carl, I am sorry you feel that way. Christ died for you and me. Isn't that good enough? I know you don't believe, but I hope someday you will have an epiphany.
-
-
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Waldron, only Christians tell good stories about Christianity.
-
Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
What about the Palestinian Authority, the King of Jordan the Dali Lama, etc. I think your broad statement is wrong.
-
-
-
The Gray Minister
I could of sworn catholic priests are supposed to take a vow of solvency But as time went on, I guess I’ve gotten away from that I guess everyone changes And apparently they have two honestly had all the religions Catholics can go bye-bye I don’t hear much about Christians or anybody else really doing stuff like Catholic priest Vain repetition All these idols they have as a walk around Yeah, I’ve heard people close to me that are very devout Catholics And yeah, I’d rather just keep following my way. The Gray Minister
-
Angele
https://youtu.be/n2Dr-vz9I-M
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
Nothing new.... This is exactly what Martin Luther witnessed 500 years ago when he visited the Vatican, We know priests have been grooming women and children for at least 500 years for sexual gratification.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
The Catholic Church, along with a couple of others, make the claim to being the "original Church".
But since then it has been recognized by other Christian denominations, mostly protestant, as having lost its way centuries ago.
That is why it is often referred to as the Whire of Babylon.
To be fair, the dark forces, call it the the devil or Satan if you want, has indeed infiltrated all the major christian faiths to one degree or another on Earth to corrupt them as much as he is able.
Unfortunately that's easy to do because they are all run by men that do not have a divine nature in this world.
When such sinful acts is this are not acknowledged and appropriately punished by other christians, they not only fail their brother and sister men and women, they also fail God.
This idea that a Christian is not a good Christian unless he is perfect is ridiculous, but there is a difference between perfection and living as we do our daily lives with our human flaws versus in engaging in continuous and overt despicable sinful activity such as this
-
Pastor Jody S.
Eeeeeewwww!
If this is true, then this offends me both as a pastor, and a woman. All the parties involved are breaking Sacred Vows, which, in the Roman Catholic church, are covenants made with God. But particularly Father. This is the kind of stuff that happens in patriarchical organizations. The sisters would have felt enormous pressure to conform to what "Father" asks of them.
Stuff like this happens when only men can be ordained as priests and deacons.
I'm sure Father will go to Confession, hoping to be absolved of this. If I were the priest that hears him, as penance I would, instead of telling him to say three Hail Marys, tell him he has to get himself castrated, if he wants to be forgiven.
Let the punishment fit the crime!
-
Robert Shedrick Kinann
Well you are breaking a commandment of God also if you are Woman Pastor. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 KJV Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. [35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
-
-
John P Maher
WELL I IMAGINE the PRIEST BELIEVEs THAT tRUMPHUMP and HIS SLOVENIAN NYMPH WIFE MALIGNIA CAN DO IT then WHY NOT ???
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That nun shouldn't have been winking at him, and throwing him kisses.
-
-
Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Well ... typically they chose young boys, but here's yet another Catholic rapists. Yet they hypocritically criticize the LBGTQ+ community for their sexuality.
There needs to be a full-on investigation into the Catholic church. See how many rapists there really are.
-
Daniel Gray
And there should be a full blown investigation into the LBGTQ community for their simulated sexual actions in Pride Parades and allowing children to dance with Transgenders and Harvey Milk and why this child molester was given a stamp and had government buildings named after him. If you are going to do this then we do it to ALL, not just the ones you pick.
-
Nonnye Lynn Lucky
Really?! Stop using these kinds of issues to Justify this kind of behavior. When any child is harmed by any adult/adult in power, when any woman is raped, when any man is raped, get off your sanctimonious butt and raise the out cry. DON't sneak in that this pervert is ok because others get away with it. You have the perversion to make a woman's story of abuse into your "outrage" against the LBGTQ community. Not all priest are good, nor are all LBGTQ neither are they of each group bad.
-
Daniel Gray
Not justifying anything, just stating fact. And if you have a problem with that then you need some self reflection to try and find out why you say we shouldnt go after ANYONE who violates the rules or molest children or tries to use them or present them as sexual items.
-
-
-
No Longer Interersted
During the 80 and 90s the Gay community helped proliferate the AIDs epidemic through indescrimate mulitpe sexual encounters in bathhouses even when it was known how infectious AIDs was. Not to discount those who were infected and knew it, but continued have unprotected sex and did not warn partners.. So before you start pointing fingers at the Catholics I suggest you stop wearing the Gay community as a badge start looking at those who were dishonorable in your own community.
-
-
Colleen McAllister
This is so sad. Power truly does corrupt - even those in religious power. We must start listening to those who accuse those in power. Better for one innocent to be accused unjustly than many innocent to be abused.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@Colleen McAllister As if this is something new... When Martin Luther visited the Pope 500 years ago he witnessed the same thing.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
So Douglas, it sounds like you're saying that Martin Luther was a voyeur who liked to watch priests and nuns have sex.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@Carl Bernard Elfstrom. Not exactly,…. After seeing all of the sexual promiscuity going on in the Vatican he started the Protestant Reformation and exposed the Catholic Church's teachings as fraud.
-
John D. Partin
I hope that you aren't presenting Martin Luther as an example of "purity" and "righteousness" because after seeing all of the promiscuity and corruption going on in the Vatican, he started the Protestant Reformation, and then Protestants got their chance to have their own promiscuity and corruption!! Henry VIII in England, who had his wives killed and became head of his own Church of England because the Pope wouldn't let him divorce his wife to marry again, and his Church which drove dissenters out of England to find freedom of religion in the New World and persecuted and killed Catholics. Witch hunters and burners in Salem, Massachusetts and England, who followed the example of the Inquisitors. And Martin Luther himself, who wrote Concerning the Jews and their Lies, which made the Nazis admire him and use his book for their propaganda, and who married an ex-nun, and believed that people should sin powerfully to be forgiven, and was a very bigoted and immoral person, and all the rest of disintegrating Protestant history!!
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@John D. Partin By no means am I saying Martin Luther was purity. He was just the first of many who exposed the Catholic Church and Pope as being a scam.
John that's for sharing the connection between Martin Luther and Adolf Hitler. Until your post I didn't know the hatred Martin Luther had for the Jews was on par with the Nazis and probably influenced the Nazi/Hitler's hatred of the Jews as well.
I know the Catholics aren't fond of the Jews even today, but Protestants? Are the Jews on their hate list today as well?
-
John D. Partin
Douglas, you shouldn't generalize, since you don't want people to make assumptions and jump to conclusions about you, and say "the Catholics aren't fond of the Jews even today" because only a few inconsistent "Catholics", in name only, dislike or hate Jews and don't follow Christ's teachings to love their neighbors as themselves and do unto others as they would have others do unto them. All Catholics who are seriously following Christ's teachings don't dislike or hate Jews and violate those teachings. You also can't fairly or reasonably dismiss all of Catholicism as a "scam" just because of some dishonest and conning people in the Church because that is bigotry and not doing unto innocent people in the Church as you would want others to do unto you. Catholic Church teachings aren't scams, which is just anti-Catholic bigotry! There are actual scams in some Protestant churches in their doctrines and beliefs, as I already told you about with Martin Luther and many others, and in their financial schemes and control of their followers, as with Jim Jones and the People's Temple in Guyana and their mass suicide! Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone and first remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@John D. Partin When I said Catholics I guess I should have clarified saying it was the Pope. (Doesn't the Pope speak for all Catholics? Just look at how the Catholics have treated Jews. And who did the Catholics side with during the European Holocaust? And the years after? It wasn't the Jews. And this is still happening today.
How can you not call the Catholic Church a scam. Martin Luther over 500 years ago exposed the Catholic Church as being a scam. And you know people believed him, which is why there are Protestants and the Protestant religion.
Please tell me where in the Catholic teaching or it Jesus's teachings where it say priests should rape and molest young childing and women and be protected by the Pope and the Vatican? And thanks to Martin Luther we know it's been going on for over 500 years. Martin Luther also documented many cases of homosexuality at the Vatican on his visits.
-
John D. Partin
The Pope doesn't speak for all Catholics, except in matters of faith and morals, when he speaks ex cathedra, infallibly, in accordance with traditional Church teaching. In their individual decisions, actions, and "thinking" to be anti-Semitic, or side with Nazis, or rape or molest women or young children, or commit financial wrongdoing and scams, or do anything else that is immoral, those few Catholics who do so are entirely on their own and have only themselves to blame for going along with any of that, in defiance of Christ's teachings, and can't blame any of that on the Pope. They made that bed all by themselves and have to lie in it, until they repent and ask forgiveness and then don't go right back to their sinning, in which case, they have to repent all over again and they won't be forgiven by God if they aren't sincere. The Pope doesn't even speak for all Catholics when he personally says or does immoral things, but only for himself. As for Luther's documenting many cases of homosexuality at the Vatican, what part of Catholics are responsible for their own immorality and can't blame the Pope or the Church for what they decide to do didn't you understand? Those "Catholics" weren't taking their Catholic faith seriously, the same as many "Catholics", in name only, today aren't taking their Catholic faith seriously, but that is all on them, not the Church or the Pope. When Luther finished his judging of the whole Catholic Church by those few examples of immorality that he saw at the Vatican, did he then go and look into the immorality beginning among his followers and in his own life or did he, as he did, only point the accusing finger at other people and never point the accusing finger back at himself and his followers?!! What about all the homosexuality, pedophilia, rape, incest, and other sinning that is going on in Protestant churches and happened during the Protestant Reformation?!! What about all the scams in the Protestant churches and during the Protestant Reformation, unless you have deceived yourself into believing that "the Protestant Reformation and churches were and are entirely innocent". But some scams in the Catholic Church or Protestant churches don't make the whole Church a scam, which is anti-Catholic or anti-Christian bigotry! Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone and first remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Instead of engaging in this game of finger pointing and accusing back and forth, between fallen and sinful human beings, who are going to sin, sometimes, and need forgiveness, which is just what Satan wants us to do, since it defames Christianity again, we need to be supporting our brothers and sisters in overcoming their sins, not judging them!!
-
John D. Partin
The Church is a hospital for souls and so how can you and other people not expect there to be sin-sick people in a hospital for souls and point at sin-sick people in the Church as "proof that the Church is a failure" when they are, in fact, the reason for its existence. Nobody finds no sick people in a hospital for physical sickness or injuries or would consider it a "failure" because of those sick and injured people in it, since that is the purpose of a hospital to treat those people and help them to get better. So, why do you, illogically and inconsistently, say that a hospital for souls is a "failure" because it has spiritually sick people in it and tries to help them get better? I have not come to save the righteous, but to bring sinners to repentance, that they might enter the kingdom of Heaven even before you. Because if you already think that you are "righteous", there is no hope for you until you realize that you are also a sinner and need to repent and need to be saved, the same as an alcoholic can't do anything about his problem with alcohol until he first admits that he has that problem. There isn't anything more ridiculous than one hospital for souls, in a Protestant church, condemning sin-sick people in another hospital for souls in the Catholic Church!!:Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone and first remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@John D. Partin I agree with you the Church SHOULD be a hospital for the soul. As you have pointed out it's a cesspool.
Would you go to a hospital Protestant, Catholic or Mormon where you know there are rapists, child molesters, scammers and liars and expect to get cured? How can sick people cure you if they are sick?
This is why people are fleeing from religion and young people want nothing to do with God and religion.
Thanks to social media people who are victims of religion are speaking out telling others just how evil the Catholic and Mormon churches are. YouTube, Tik Tok, Twitter, Mastodon, Instagram and Meta are just filled with stories from devout religious women and men saying how evil God and the church are to people.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@John D. Partin I take it you are not familiar with ex cathedra. I guess you don't know Catholics believe that their bishops are the successors of the apostles and that Peter had a special role among the apostles as the preserver of unity, the Pope is considered the spokesman for the whole Church.
Why do you say otherwise?
How can you say anti-Semitic, siding with Nazis, the rape and molestation of young children and women, financial wrongdoing and scams are the actions of individuals? We know this is not true. We know the Pope has known about the rape and molestation of thousands and takes action to protect the priests who have and are committing these crimes. It was the Pope acting as the head of the Catholic church, not as an individual who sided with the Nazis.
Is it fair to say you didn't know the Pope and Hitler were in secret negotiations for many years.
Are you trying to rewrite history or is it you falsely believe the historical records including the ones at the Vatican are false?
I see you are trying to protect all of the evil things the Catholic Church has done by saying the Protestant are doing it too. As if that makes the Catholic Church less evil.
As young and even older people read what you say about the Catholics and Protestants they are asking themselves why would I would to be associated with a religion which protects priests and ministers who rape and molest young children and women, promote hate of others, and were directly involved in the murder of Jews. And the Pope and the Catholic church 30 years ago made an official statement this was not true, yet today we have the evidence proving the Pope and Catholic church lied.
Would you, (maybe you would), be part of a religion where you leaders lie, protect thousands of rapists and child molesters? Would you want your young children to be around a priest who might be a a child molester or rapist?
Young and older people today are saying no. Which is why they no longer believe in God.
-
John D. Partin
Douglas Robert Spindler, all that I and everyone else ever hear you say in here about the Catholic Church is judgmentalism and condemnation and only your one-sided bigotry against God and the Catholic Church!! You never speak of anything except the Catholic Church's sins and negative things about it, and not once do you tell the other side of the story and let the Church defend itself against your constant barrage of charges. That isn't very fair-minded or balanced of you at all! No examination or trial of anything can be based only on evidence for the prosecution and no evidence for the defense, and arrive at anything other than the wrong conclusion!! If the wrong things done by some, not all, priests in the Catholic Church "prove" to you that "the whole Church is wrong", why don't the good things that are done by many priests and the Church prove to you that you are wrong and that the whole Church isn't wrong and that there is a whole lot of good in it, except that you are closed-minded to any good in the Church and can only see the bad? What about St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital for children with cancer and all other Catholic hospitals and Catholic Charities and all other good things that are coming out of the Church and why don't they balance out your lopsided thinking about the whole Church? What about St. Francis of Assisi, St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Martin de Porres, and all of the other Saints of the Catholic Church, who only tried to love God and other people with all of their hearts, minds, and souls? Why don't they matter to you at all or prove anything about the whole Church at all to you, as though such good people could have come out of a "totally evil" Church, or figure into your evaluation and judgement of the Church?!! You can't look at only the negative in anything and come to anything other than a distorted view of it! That is why Jesus Christ said "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged, and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again"---Matthew 7:1-2. And what if these s**t covered glasses that you are looking at the Catholic Church through were turned right back around on Douglas Robert Spindler and someone else judged you only by the wrong things that you have done and wouldn't listen to or consider any good things that you have ever done in their evaluation of you?!! How well would you do under that unfair and one-sided examination?!! Because that is what Jesus says will be done to you at the Judgment, if that is how you view the Church and other people. All priests aren't pedophiles or financially corrupt or otherwise immoral, but only a small percentage of them, but, as with all other objects of prejudice, the worst and most noticed minority of the group gets the whole group condemned. Does all of America become "wrong" or "immoral" because of bad Presidents or Senators or other public officials? Do all police forces become "bad" because of bad police officers, and so on for every other group? You apply a standard to the Catholic Church that you don't apply to anyone or anything else, including yourself, which is very lopsided, unjust, unfair, and immoral itself!! You really don't want to put yourself in the role of accuser of the brethren, which is Satan's job, even if you "think" that you do, because then you will receive the same judgment and punishment that he is going to receive. Why don't you let the Church defend itself against your charges of "the Pope's collaboration with the Nazis" by considering the evidence against that in historical films such as The Scarlet and the Black, starting Gregory Peck, and Under the Roman Sky, starring James Cromwell, which tell about the Nazis' plan to abduct Pius XII and put their own puppet "Pope" in his place, and that they wouldn't have wanted to do if he was already going along with them, and read a fair-minded biography of Pius XII, instead of getting all your "information" about the Church from Jack Chick and other anti-Catholic bigots?!! Be fair-minded and read the actual history of, not propaganda "history" against, the Catholic Church and free your mind from the mud and fog of bigotry that it is immersed in and do unto others as you would have others do unto you!!
-
John D. Partin
I didn't say that the Catholic Church is a "cesspool". That is your word and anti-Catholic exaggeration and bigotry again! There is and has been a lot of wrong done in the Church, but also a lot of right and good done in the Church, and the wrong doesn't cancel out the right and good. They have to be considered together and a balanced view of the Church maintained, instead of your lopsided thinking and view of the Church. Jesus Christ himself said that this would be the case and that the tares and the wheat would grow together until the harvest and the wheat is brought into the barn, while the tares are bundled up and thrown into the fire, in his Parable of the Tares and the Wheat. The Pope and Cardinals and Bishops and priests aren't able to make anyone do right, and wouldn't do so even if they could because that wouldn't be those people making that decision to do right for themselves. People remain free agents and can choose to ignore Church teaching and do and think whatever they want as much inside the Church as they can outside of the Church, and when they do, they are just obviously worldly people inside the Church, instead of outside of it. The Pope and Church leaders can only preach against evils and to convince people to do the right things and avoid the wrong things, but can't make them do it. That is how I can say that people are responsible for their own actions and can't blame the Pope for what they decide to do. Not all priests are molesting children or corrupt in any other way, but only a small minority of them. So, it is bigotry to condemn the whole Church for these priests and Church leaders covering up their sins! But why even stay in a Church that has corrupt leaders and any pedophile priests in it? Because the Church isn't about them and is much bigger than them, and we go there to meet and be with Christ, and take him into ourselves, which these bad priests aren't able to interfere with. Does anyone blame the whole law or refuse to call the police when they are being victimized because of bad cops, and go without any justice at all? Where would law and order be in this world and country if that were always done?!! Bad cops and some bad police forces need to be reformed or replaced with good cops and police forces, just as bad Church leaders need to be reformed or replaced with good Church leaders, as Christ already tells us will be done, but you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. If we could only be in any organization that had no corruption in it, we couldn't be in any organizations because all organizations with people unavoidably in them are going to have some corruption in them, but we don't let that keep us out of basically good organizations (as a Church whose purpose is to bring people to Christ, however much we fail in that, most certainly is!!). The Church is both human and divine. "Evidence", according to you and your anti-Catholic bigotry, that "proves that the Pope and Catholic Church lied" actually proves no such thing, since that is all that you will let yourself believe, anyway. Children aren't in danger of being molested or women in danger of being sexually approached or raped by the overwhelming majority of priests, who aren't doing that, except according to bigots, who always "think" that "it is happening", even where it clearly isn't!! Some young and even older people don't need any excuses of non-existent "molestation of all children by priests or raping of women by all priests" to turn them away from the Truth and the Church because their own fallen human natures do that all by themselves!! This is the judgment: Light has come into the world and men preferred the darkness over the light because their deeds were evil. And any excuse, no matter how ridiculous, will suffice to "justify" to themselves people's turning away from the Truth, which would convict them of sin, and staying in the darkness where they don't have to face the truth about themselves, like cockroaches scurrying for the dark corners once the light is turned on!! That is why they don't believe in God, and just use some bad priests as a coverup of that real reason. As I wrote to you before, we can go on in this game of accusations back at forth and do what Satan wants us to do, to discredit Christianity, or we can help our brothers and sisters to come up out of their sinning and restore them to holy living, as Christ wants us to do. The choice is ours: do we follow Christ's will for us or Satan's will for us?!!
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@John D. Partin As you mention the "Good" the Catholic does, there are just more scandals and misdoings. You've mentioned St. Jude, but failed to mention the scandals and misdoings. Why no mention of the $3.7 million paid in fines for false claims and kickbacks. And what about the other scandal from just a few tears ago.
Do you have any idea just how bad the Catholic church is in the eyes of the public and Catholics? You do realize the Catholic church has admitted they covered up the evil doings (rape and child molestations) of nearly 4,000 priests. (But that number continues to increase.)
You also seem fail to mention the Vatican has paid out over $4 billion in settlement payments. How can you say it's just a few rogue priests? To everyone else, including many Catholics it's systemic within the Catholic Chinch just as Martin Luther told us over 500 years ago.
You said the Catholic church is a hospital for the soul. To which I replied we know is filled with serial rapists, child molesters scandals and coverups. I ask you if you would send your wife, daughters, children or grandchildren to one of these hospitals for the soul. You avoided answering the question. So let me ask again. Would you send your loved ones to be treated by someone who could be a child molester or rapists?
Many Catholics have already answered that question and have left the church and have come to same realization Martin Luther did. While the Catholic Church might appear to be doing good on the surface it's filled with corruption and evil doings. Heck just look at how few women today want to become nuns to serve the Lord. Same story with the men. Over the past 25 years the Catholic Church as lost over 50% of it's priests. And thank God at least one had the decency to step forward to work with law enforcement to get rape, child molestation and fraud convictions against priests and church officials.
Wouldn't you agree this looks really bad for religion and the Catholics? What person today would want to be associated with rapists, child molesters, scammers, and fraud even if they do some good. The bad is really bad and discussing and certainly doesn't offset the trivial good the Catholic Church might be doing. The damage has been done.
-
-
-
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@Carl Bernard Elfstrom. If you want a threesome Take a look at the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Now that’s some threesome.
-
-
-
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Let’s see, maybe she could have said ‘No’?
-
Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Or maybe priests could ... I don't know Doctor ... maybe ... stop effing raping people. Cause ya know, saying no has stopped ZERO rapes from happening. Where'd you get your doctorate, from a cereal box?
-
Rev. MichaelRS
When you say saying no never stop to rape I assume you're talking about a physical attack.
Because when somebody's MO is trying to conjoule or in some way persuade a person into a sexual relationship saying "no" to that person IS effective.
-
-
This priest should not only be removed from service , But charged for various kinds of sexual misconduct .. Period