We seem to have gotten to the point where whenever Donald Trump says something controversial, it no longer surprises us. Trump is one of the most outspoken and non-politically correct politicians many of us have ever seen, and he hasn't slowed down one bit since he announced he was running for president.
Many people did not take him very seriously when he announced his candidacy back in June of last year. However, to the surprise of some, he is currently in the lead for the Republican nomination. On the campaign trail he seems to have created a warpath, attacking people of different genders, religions, and ethnicities. One of his more controversial statements centered on his belief that a wall should be built on the Mexico-U.S. border with Mexico footing the bill, of course.
Obviously, there were a lot of people unhappy with his statements. He's probably pretty used to that by now. One may even argue that he enjoys ruffling people's feathers and getting under their skin. However, his comments on Mexico seems to have made him a new enemy, and it may have been someone Trump never expected Pope Francis. The Holy Father himself has recently made several scathing comments seemingly directed toward the GOP candidate. Specifically, the pope suggested that Trump cannot be a Christian, because a Christian would not want to build walls to divide people, but instead build bridges to bring people together.
**Pope Francis Makes a Jab
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Similar to Trump, Pope Francis has not been afraid to express his opinion, even when his statements are considered highly controversial by fellow Catholics. Still, there probably weren't many people who expected him to call out Trump in such a strong way.
While most see Trump as the least religious candidate in the field, some can't help but wonder if some of his Catholic supporters will move on to a different candidate, since the Pope obviously doesn't want him as president. However, it's hard to say how many Catholics supported him in the first place. So, at the end of the day, it may be the case that the Pope's comments or opinions have done nothing to hurt his popularity among voters. A candidate's faith used to be front-and-center in the Republican race are those attitudes changing?
**Back and Forth
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As you might expect, Trump did not take kindly at all to the Pope's comments. There are few who expected him to stay quiet on the subject. After all, it is not Trump's style to leave a challenge unaccepted. Not 24 hours after the pope made his statements Trump shot back, saying things such as:
The Pope's comments were disgraceful
The Pope has no right to decide who is a Christian and who is not.
Who is the Pope to speak on walls with Mexico when the Vatican itself is surrounded by walls?
Trump also went on to say that he thinks the Pope would want him as president if ISIS attacked: "If and when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS, which as everyone knows is ISIS' ultimate trophy, I can promise you that the Pope would have only wished and prayed that Donald Trump would have been president because this would not have happened."
The Vatican has said that the Pope's statements were not directed at Trump, and were more of a broad statement. However, that's a little hard to believe considering that the Pope was asked a question specifically about Trump and gave that response. The Vatican was likely trying to smooth things over to avoid a controversy.
Was the Pope Right?
It is easy to see why the Pope did not like Trump's statements, but it probably wasn't the best idea to call him out and say there's no way he is a Christian. While the Pope is highly respected and revered by the Catholic community, Trump specializes in deflecting criticism and flinging it right back. Even the Pope makes mistakes; maybe this was one of them.
It doesn't seem likely that this will escalate any further; Trump has his sights set on the White House, and the media's main focus is on the remaining debates, primaries, and caucuses. However arrogant and disrespectful Trump is, it's hard not to stand in awe of a Republican candidate who can trade public blows with the leader of the world's largest united church and avoid any significant drop in the polls.
Is this a sign of what's to come? Is religion on its way out of American politics?
86 comments
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Steve W.
My first reaction to the controversy was that there are two people on earth whose job it is to decide who is a Christian and who is not. Both are designated by their religious doctrine as god's representative on earth: the Catholic Pope, and the Eastern Orthodox Pope (Patriarch of Alexandria). So they do get to judge. I know, that's pretty weak ...
Then I got to thinking about the difference between the noun and adjective forms of the word "christian." To be christian is different than being a Christian (in my understanding). My daily life tells me that there are many Christians who are not christian.
Of course the word Christian is almost always capitalized, so it's hard to tell what is meant in the written word. The Pope said "A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian." With a small "c," representing the adjective form, the sentence might very well be an accurate reflection the Pope's real meaning. "A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not christian."
I thought I had a pretty good argument going here, then I read the next sentence: "I say only that this man is not a Christian if he has said things like that." Oh well ... no doubting the meaning of that.
But I still maintain that Mr. Trump may be a Christian ("Nobody believes I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian.") but that does not mean that he acts in a christian manner.
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Karen Petsche
It is no one to judge if a man is a Christian but himself and God. No Pope has that right he is just a man too. Especially the heart and belief of any man and his relationship with his maker. The Pope might have the right under their faith -religion to judge people and their actions as to say if the action is Christian or not, that I’m not familiar with except per my own knowledge of the Good Book and that includes judging others least not we be judged. We may take an action as not being Christian, which on the outside shud be able to determine if an action is just or not but we really don’t know ! We are only looking in and we do not have the inner heart of this person’s actions and what led up to him being him. (I use the pronoun man and him as all mankind ! ) If the Pope wants to get involved with one political leader and his faith relations then he needs to critic the rest of them and give his out spoken opinion of the communist countries and those that are killing their citizens. Freedom should be a right of all men and I would think there are so much more dire things around the world happening besides a leader of a country trying to protect his country ! The last I heard here in the US is separate church and government because someone has to act in the better of the country which is having rules -laws that protect us. Even our Bible encourages us to obey our government and to change things in an orderly fashion but we have to be civil! very disappointed in someone that holds the position as the Pope to not have more control over his speech. I do not like it for anyone to question the heart of someone else. We are here to disciple and to help all our fellow beings with coming into with their own feelings. To help and teach and be supportive not to tear down no matter what we first think of the actions of that person. That’s when we know it’s that person that might really need our guidance
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Steve W.
By the way ... the original author says "Even the Pope makes mistakes; maybe this was one of them."
So you aren't buying that notion of the infallibility of the Pope? That's Catholic doctrine, isn't if?
;~)
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Dark Gray
You joke, but according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the pope is infallible only "when in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the whole Church".
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Marcel French
It is true that Trump is blunt and to the point. The fact is it is because of political correctness has made it so that one can be long winded and seem to be make a good point and make others a social pariah and all with out having really saying anything. The vast majority of people world wide are being lead by the nose to do some elitist dirty work. There truly are only 2 kinds of people those who serve evil and the truly divine. Anyone that believes that evil dose not rule our global society is blind and will to turn against anyone that does not follow the heard. Funny that all of those that are blind claim to follow teachings of anyone of the various profits of old and with out knowing it are following a twisted version and if you really did your research you would know that all the old teachings and the ones that taught the masses where the social and political pariahs of their time.
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Rod
...your 'profits' of old should be 'prophets' of old, maybe? Or maybe not...
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Ed Adams
AND == follow the "heard" === If I speak it -- will you follow me???????
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JEFFREY
I TAKE IT YOUR FIRST LANGUAGE IS NOT ENGLISH
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Allen Alexander
Mr. Trump may be beguiling many, but I see him as a pawn of satan. He may claim to be Christian, but his actions say otherwise. He is a master of deception and discontent. No way is he fit to be the leader of "America, one nation under God."
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ariana
I agree..ty for sharing your comment. GOD HELP US ALL.
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Alvin Jones
Being a Christian is not a prerequisite to run or become the President of the United States, however, leadership in this country calls for spiritual insight and behavior to care for the requests and need of the people. Since the first two words to our preamble states "We the people..........", focus should always be placed on this and not personal beliefs for leadership, contrary to the record of past Presidents.
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catpersontoo
So why are all the Republicans pushing for a "Christian" agenda and not include our Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Mormon, Hari Krishna, Wicca, and so on brothers and sisters of different faiths? They are legitimate religions in other cultures who happen to live here in the United States. Isn't that setting up a "state" religion when the Republicans want "Christian" to be THE religion for this country, something our Forefathers fought when separating from England and the Church of England in the Revolution, for the freedom OF religion? They never did say "who's" religion, just the fact you can practice Your religion with out prejudice or none at all.
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Ed Adams
WELL Said /////////
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Brother John
Jorge Mario Bergoglio aka Pope Francis is the first Jesuit elected as Pope. As a Jesuit, he is still under the command of the Superior General of the Society of Jesus or the Black Pope. The Jesuits have a chequered history, as does the Roman Catholic Church itself, and neither are in any position to wag fingers and claim moral high ground.
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Alcoboy
Not so, as the jesuits are under a special vow of obedience to the supreme pontiff. This is how Pope John Paul II was able to dismiss jesuit father general Pedro Arrupe in 1985.
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Brother John
The fact remains that he is a Jesuit. Here's a link to a biography about another infamous Jesuit, Heinrich Himmler, and another to the RCC's collusion with Hitler and the National Socialist German Worker's Party.
http://one-evil.org/content/people_20c_himmler.html
http://jesuswouldbefurious.org/Catholic/NaziLeadership.html
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Catharina Hosseini Damabi
I think there is a difference between "political correctness" and being correct. Now I am wondering, are the american people really okay with a candidate which is lying all along, being very facist. I could list endless situations where Trump was not political not correct, but as well claiming false facts. Amazinglly everone finds excuses. Nobody really knows for what he stands, as he changes all the times, there are no real policies or program. So he ask simple, trust I will makes all fine. If he really goes on like this, I am so happy that the Pope was brave and voices concerns. & months no one dared to voice concerns. Now people start to think who Trump is. Remember look at the fruits, bible. What are Trumps fruits? His companies make bankrupt , many people lost jobs ad families lost their living. Alone this should make sense to think. He produces his products in China and Mexico, very cheap and sells it high prices on... Why he does not provide jobs in US ? I am only shake my heads, maybe for some people the Pope has no right to voice concerns, but I respect him for this even I am Hindu.
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Judie
First of all Trump is a business man. Second he is man. Third of all the Government said anyone can file bankruptcy man , women, business, so he did. He also found jobs for the people who lost there jobs. Yes his products come from Mexico & China why our Government aloud this, he is NOT the only one. Personally I believe this pope did NOT need to say anything yes I know this is the 2000 but he is changing so many things. Now he is changing ways for divorced people. He is a Jesuit not a Catholic.I understand we need to help people but come on we to help our own first not all these refuges an immigrants.
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Rev James
Donald Trump may be a bit outspoken and on the surface rash but he did not get to where he is by being a fool and not holding up his end, whether that is what is needed in a modern America remains to be seen. The Pope of course is the leader of the catholic church and for that alone deserves a great amount of respect but as for Christians building walls there is a great example here in the UK in Hadrian's wall built by the Romans and yes the Vatican is surrounded by walls and very rich inside and very poor outside, the comments could go on forever but I will not. Religion will I believe always play a part in politics because it is a belief in something with no conditions, in saying that I mean there are no rules on believing or who you wish to believe in the rules and conditions only apply after you have chosen to believe.
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Susanna
Trump espouses fear and hate.
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Brother John
Fear is the ultimate motivator of the masses and has worked for century after century, SLA. In the case below, it's political. But the fear of eternal damnation has worked wonders as Christian propaganda.
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Hermann Goering (1893-1946) Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reichstag, Prime Minister of Prussia and, as Hitler's designated successor, the second man in the Third Reich. [Göring] Date: April 18, 1946 Source: Nuremberg Diary (Farrar, Straus & Co 1947), by Gustave Gilbert (an Allied appointed psychologist), who visited daily with Goering and his cronies in their cells, afterwards making notes and ultimately writing the book about these conversations.
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William C Millhouse
Although I am a Pagan priest, I was always taught that Christian means "Christ like". It is quite evident that Mr. Trump does not meet this definition. More like he might be an Antichrist,
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jimgramze
Since all of the republican candidates support a wall between the USA and Mexico, can we then infer that none of them are Christian? Ironically, Bernie Sanders is Jewish and not Christian, and yet he is against such a wall. Perhaps all this should be discussed within the walls of the church.
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William Reichart
One nation under God,means just that.This nation was designed to be a free society for us to worship as we choose and to collectively make decisions,for the good of all.That is all mankind not only those residing in this Country.We are the Superpower that controls the World and supposedly keep peace and try to help those in need.The premise of this Country is to be good people guided by there beliefs.Not a Country that turns people away because they are poor or a different color.We Americans are primarily all from other Countries or at least our ancestors were.Who are we now to say (shut the door,dont let anyone else in)!!!!!Christian to me means to follow Christs example and be a good ,kind giving person that helps whoever they can.You cant pick and choose who needs help or deserves help if youre a Christian.You definitely dont turn away people that need your help!!!!!!!!By the way,you are not a Christian by how you spell it ,capitalize it or what religion you practice.A Christian follows Christs example and knows Christ died for our sins so we could have life everlasting!!! I do my best everyday to be a Christian.its something you do everyday.Not something you say!!!!!!
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Marius Gabriel Burja
Died and rose again. Gospel. Way of life not a job. Jesus lives in me and me in him in his spirit here on this planet. Where is Jesus Christ right now? Man wrote the bible after Jesus left. Where did Jesus go with that human body? (Ok I will let some one else call it half human half/holy spirit) What happens to a human body when it hits the stratosphere? Poof? Pulverization? He sent his holy spirit back to us. If he is at the right hand of the father then maybe fathers hand is on his heart. Yet they are a trinity of father son and spirit. So then I'm not two years old. The power of the holy spirit is here and leads us to Jesus. In his memory and honor we have bread and wine in the resemblance of his BODY AND BLOOD. There fore you must surrender your life to the holy spirit which guides your way to Jesus and his teachings which were gathered by men who we hope and pray were men of Jesus and his holy spirit.
Yet their fruit are questionable since some evolved in faith and some in religion. Ahh faith and religion are two different words and definitions.
So now we have walls and denominations with doors to buildings. Yet the holy spirit powers through the heart minds and bodies of mankind to shape their individual spirits to meld and mold into a holy spirit circumsising the evil spirit which possesses the vanity and fleshly cravings of tainted mankind for evil things. The worldly pleasures of perversion murder theft and so on. Yet we are fooled into working as slaves for the better of mankind and do not give the credit to God or Jesus or the holy spirit. Even TV evangelists turn proverbs into modern day language wives tales and sayings and put their names on them. Then post them all over the internet for their profit. Now they decide how Gods money is spent. Oh yes they do a lot for the poor but that is just to say they do it. What kind of Jesus flies on a private plane while others starve? The fruits of their labor are mass production of propaganda with their names and pictures. Well your fame here now is your reward but in the next life will be different. Anyway as Christians after Jesus we are promised eternal life is that on earth as it is in heaven? Well now we must learn what heaven and earth mean. Long story short. Can you find him? Will his spirit guide you to him or will your spirit stand in the way? Is he coming again? From the beginning life came through the nostrils. From Gods wind of his breath. From that point on life began in the womb at conception. At birth yet again life comes through nostrils as you are separated from the umbilical. Yes you can breath through your mouth but you have to blow your nose or you suffocate. Then your but gets paddled so you can start development of the use of your lungs. We are a lot closer to God and Jesus as infants then as we grow up and learn right and wrong. I have to skip a bit or I will write for ever.lol
Religion turned us all back into slaves to manmade systems. Faith frees us from the material things that mankind's systems forced you to work for. What in the world will we do when we value a machine over human lives. We created nuclear bombs versus uniting with love peace and joy of life. We fly to outer space to find the secrets of the universe as if eternal life is out there. Yet it is supposed to be here in the holy spirit of Jesus Christ of Nazareth the grown man not the child of Bethlehem. He was just a sweet angel in that manger. He became a son and grown man through studies in sinagogs. He learned so much that his spirit grew to be God like and mankind yet again was out smarted by itself because Jesus Christ evolved into a son of God and a son of mankind. Mary was a daughter of man and woman.
Yet God's secret spirit of holy ness impregnated Mary and at the same time Elisabeth was with child.
Well then now the time has come to put our science to work and find these CHRISTIAN BLOODLINES.
WHY? Because I believe that certain religions have been robbing these families throughout history of the fruit of their labour and the inheritance to the point of down right manipulation of Jesus Christ teachings. I guarantee you that a teacher healer and many of the other subjects that Jesus studied he had to have written some things.
Yet the churches and law men of the land have hidden just as much if not more then what the bible explains how God buried secrets. So I distinctly remember reading in the KJV probably Revelation the fraise BLESSED IS THE MAN WHO KEEPS GOD'S SECRET. SO I have to wonder if God has one or many secrets. I learned secrets are not good.
Sharing is good. Yet God does not waste any time in conversing with us only with his chosen.
I would give all to be one of those chosen and I have and I will therefore......... I love and hurt when I feel and see unjust injustices and justices.
All judges are men and women judging men and women even animals. They have become false Christ's just as priests clergymen and women and everyone else.
I can not go to churches or any place of worship without being judged. Descifering discerning they all just became words of the ages.
I've been robbed of my heart by the evils of this world. Regardless of my choices. What little I had to keep me growing is gone. God let's all kinds of things happen for a while.
My life was wasted by others. I have nothing to give And I don't want anything anymore. Love is my worse enemy. Because only God could love me and he even doesn't want me but I for sure do not belong to anyone not to evil not satan not man or woman. I am just fertiliser for this planet.
I have heard it all done lots of things. I kept no tabs or friends and my family is not mine. I can only pray I parish and the sooner the better. But there is nothing I can do anymore. I also don't want to be a part of existence in any shape or form.
Trump and isis are the same thing to me. Nothing is great nor will it ever be for me. All can have heaven and earth and all they entail they can have hell also.
I am not the first nor the last Marius Gabriel. I'm the outcast. I did not chose it God did. He gets all the credit for my successes and failures. I no longer exist.
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JO-ANN
You certainly vent very well......I have NO WORDS OF WISDOM FOR YOU....you have come full circle....You have had FAITH...and lost FAITH...."I no longer exist"..is exactly needed to loose the ego...and, become part of the bigger picture...you sound lost...but, your not... You know the CREATOR and that you have your free will and that it is your only option remembering....IT IS UP TO OUR CREATOR WHEN WE NO LONGER EXIST.
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JO-ANN
SUBMIT.......THY will be done....PRAY AND OBEY! Maybe just a few words of wisdom.......
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Catharina Hosseini Damabi
Asking questions: Why can the Pope not voice concerns? My understanding is the first amemdment can be used by everyone. Has voicing your opinion anything to do with your religion? Does not Jesus Christ has voices enough of his opinion as he kicked the traders out of the temple? From the point of today it would be "disgraceful" isnt it ?
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John
I think that if the Pope decides to mingle with our politics we should have the right to vet the priests they are hiring, that way we could avoid rampant pedophilia and the shell game played with some of these guilty parties.
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Brother John
Here are some cases he could deal with immediately instead of meddling in politics….
http://bishopaccountability.org
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JEFFREY
HOW MANY BRIDGES LEAD INTO THE VATICAN AND HOW MUCH OF THE VATICAN IS SURROUNDED BY WALLS SO THE PERSON WHO IS HEAD OF THAT LITTLE STATE MUST BE THE MOST UN CHRISTIAN RULER IN THE WORLD USING THE LOGIC OF THE PERSON WHO MADE THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT WHO WAS IT AGAIN? HA HA HA
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Jackie Carlyle
So true.
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JEFFREY
FEEL FREE TO FORWARD TO WHO EVER ;-)
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Mark
This country was formed to allow religious freedom. When The United States Of America the country was formed it was just that a country. It is now a corporation and business is run by business men. Each of us are unique. The Pope had no business to interject his view about Christian and business. Seperation of Church and State was established for a reason. Churches all across the US have lost attendance due immorality and a lack of true guidance of the people! The average American has no idea of the basic teachings in union between the sprit and the Creator. This is a sad fact! Then we have the agenda to wipe out Christian faith worldwide. Islam has been handed American guns to kill anyone not Islamic. This is the physical realm and all humans want the best for there offsprings. In the old day the king has large walls surrounding them from the common folks as the king felt he was worthy and selected by the Gods to take by force what everyone else earned or was granted to use by the Creator. Human nature has not and will never change. All of you are sinners just like the Pope and The Donald. I know you all inside! Given Freewill but you still choose the wrong path most of the time. We are a nation of Kings so we better build a wall to keep out your brothers the other sinners. When you are left with no way to protect the land that your creator lets you live on. None of this physical belongs to any of you. You are a domesticate animals and would fight to the death to protect what you precieve as yours! Let let a Business man run this business.
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Don Marvin
If Pope Frankie finds walls that objectionable, why hasn't he removed the walls surrounding the Vatican. I don't see him or any of his successors tearing down that wall and issuing an open invitation to anyone who wants to move to the Vatican. That kind of hypocrisy is nothing new to the papacy or, for that matter, to the Catholic church itself.
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Steve W.
Mark, I didn't follow much of that last comment, but are you saying that the United States of America is a business?
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Charlie Landman
As I understand the issue, the question is whether a person can avoid doing all of the things Jesus called for - feed the hungry, heal the sick, raise up the poor and downtrodden, answer the door to whomever is knocking - and still have a legitimate claim to walk in the path of Christ. The fundamental message of Jesus was one of compassion, of love for all. Can a person show, not compassion, but hate, and still be a disciple of Christ? I think that if you are a true Christian, if the message of Christ is indeed within you, then it has to show through you, it has to show in how you are in the world. If you are not as Christ in the world, then you are not of Christ. There are plenty of folks who don't want it that way, who want to separate what they say from what they do. We have a country that is by in large religious but not spiritual, so there is a home for all those who profess Jesus but ignore his teachings. And we are a poorer and meaner place for it.
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Catharina Hosseini Damabi
:) thanks
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Brother John
Well said, Charlie! As evidenced by the number of bigoted, judgemental and outright ignorant comments from "Christians" on this site alone, there are many who "profess Jesus but ignore his teachings."
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Jackie Carlyle
The Pope is a man not God. His remark, made with an angry bent, shows this all too well. Whether it be Jesus Christ or Donald Trump established organizations don't like anyone coming in upsetting the established order of things. It gets the average person thinking which ticks off the people who control the average person. For instance why do the very poor people give their last dime to the opulently rich who live at the Vatican? How could the Pope in good conscious ask these poor starving Mexicans to tithe their last dime to the Church when they live in mud? Need I say more? This is everything Jesus was against.
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Brother John
Excellent point about discouraging people from thinking, Jackie. When belief and faith smother rational thought and allows racism, bigotry, patriotism, materialism and entitlement to flourish, the results are horrific and inhumane.
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Steve W.
Well said, Charlie.
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annette henderson
For many years now, I have thought that the best way of teaching is by our own humble example. If the Pope wants to say something meaningful, he needs to lead the Church by example first. In some ways, he is doing this already and people have noticed and welcomed it. He is now challenged on deeper levels and we watch his actions. Are women respected as equals......No. What is wrong with condoms?when they are so helpful to the human race. Why can't the Church admit its own mistakes? and ask forgiveness . A patriarchy will never be healthy without inclusion on all levels, just like an unhealthy marriage is doomed when only one person gets to decide. Time for the Church to get healthier itself if it wants to have a teaching role. Actions gain respect, while words seem shallow without integrity. All of us, including Mr. Trump, can take notice.
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Charlie Landman
The dominant theme within these comments seems to be - not the words and actions of Donald Trump - but instead that the Pope cannot criticize Mr. Trump because the Pope and the Catholic Church are not perfect. I think we are all well aware that neither the Pope nor any other person or institution has achieved godly perfection, however it might be defined. If perfection is indeed the standard, then none of us has a right to comment, about Mr. Trump, the Pope or anything else. Does it really require personal purity to point out the harmful words and deeds of another person? Do we really have to, not just aspire to loving kindness, but actually achieve it at every moment, in order to call out what looks like demeaning language and proposals of all kinds from another? How do we bridge this gap, between this demand for perfection and humanness of all of us?
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Catharina Hosseini Damabi
Thank you, a voice of reason. You made my day :)
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annette henderson
Many of us older people were strongly indoctrinated early in our childhood that the Church WAS/IS perfect, infallible, so it took a long struggle to understand that that is simply not true. You see, we felt betrayed by that lie. It still carries wounds within people, as I have seen, that hurt and endure. It was a type of soul abuse. Forgiveness and amends could be made, which would include acknowledgment, moving forward with respecting women as equals, LGBTQ, the rights of children, inclusion on all levels, etc. These would help renew some credibility and integrity.
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Brother John
Sadly the indoctrination continues, annette. It's common for us to avoid reality when it's contrary to our beliefs and personal comfort. We want to be "happy" and to do so we choose to deny and avoid realities that are "negative". Aside from the acceptance of unfounded religious beliefs, there are real world realities that affect all of us. When denial of reality is done en masse, as has been done with climate change, 9/11, the Global War on Terror, Fukushima and other cataclysmic events, they are accepted and allowed to continue unabated. On an individual basis this includes bigotry, racism, and an overblown sense of entitlement, all fuelled by en masse acceptance.
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Pastor Davila
I think it's quite refeshing that we have both a religious leader and politician that are not afraid to speak their mind and not scared of being politically correct! I commend both of them!
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John hus
I think the pope should mind his own business he is not part of any country but the Vatican who is he to meddle in other countries affair we know the agenda this pope pushes that is socialist liberation theology which is common in central and South America he hates democracy he has already came out and said so and what else can you be for but left wing socialism well if America will not stand for a person like Bernie sansanders and his Vermont hippie support group to steal the White House why listen to a argentine Italian hippy in Rome
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McLellan
Anyone who believes in the Christian god and wants to call themselves Christian, should be allowed to regardless of whether others feel they are or not.
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Charlie Landman
I agree, but it you are a public figure and want to wrap yourself in the cloak of Jesus, then the rest of us have every right to ask just how you bring the love of Christ into being in your life. Surely to be a Christian means something more than "I say I am one." This, by the way, applies to all of the those who say they are Christian, not just Donald Trump. For instance, how does Ted Cruz show the love of Jesus in his life? By being as mean spirited and vindictive as possible toward those different from him? What part of that makes him a Christian?
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Brother John
Excellent point, Charlie. There are a number of "Christians" posting on this site that claim they have the only Truth and Way to it and regularly disparage "non-believers", more often than not Muslims. Their judgemental bigotry flies in the face of their professed Saviour.
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Charles David Whitfield
This was a silly comment by the Pope and the Pope should have known not to used that type of language. Only Yahweh know who are really saved. No person who follows the teaching of the Messiah should be supporting building walls to keep people out. As followers of the Messiah, we should be embracing and promoting more people to come. Because the GOD of the USA is more powerful, wise and compassion than any evil forces that wish to do us harm.
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Brother John
"The God of the USA", Charles? Having your own GOD must be the epitome of American exceptionalism….
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rich08854
The reason we have laws that Separate Church and State, are just for this reason. I try very hard to be a GOOD CHRISTIAN, however I am an AMERICAN CITIZEN VETERAN, who believes that charity starts at HOME, we have ailing Senior American Citizens who have to decide between food or medicine, we have homeless Veterans and Veterans that are receiving sub par medical care. The Vatican has Billions of Dollars, why don't they help poor people in every third world country and tell them to use Birth Control.
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annette henderson
Good question, one that has been asked many times. If the Church did that, it would be a Church that could lead by example of how Jesus identified with the poor and Gospel values of compassion. That is asking too much, I guess. It might well just admit that it has a bad history in doing this, ask forgiveness, and then move in a more Jesus-like path, like all of us need do.
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Simon placek
I think donald trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread...who needs the pope when you have donald trump....if it were up to the pope america would be a smouldering crater as religious values supposedly beat public safety
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Ernest Risiott
This Pope has no right to point the finger at anybody except all the Peadaphill priests who are wanted world wide on charges of Child Rape, abuse & in some cases, threatening of lives! This pope is nothing more than an accessory to Peadaphillia after the fact, so fuck him & his opions!
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Jim
We are all not catholic in America. Mixing church and politics is wrong. I believe if churches support a political movment they should no longer have tax exempt statis. If they want their followers to vote a certain way influience should only be within the walls of their church.
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JO-ANN
Trump is not running for the head of a christian organizaiton....
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Brother John
Yes and no, JO-ANN. A number of people posting here claim the U.S. is a "Christian nation" and the candidates will pander for all the evangelical votes they can get.
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JO-ANN
SO TRUE ...we used to be a christian nation....not so much any more...and, if the globalist have thier way....its over....including open borders with MORE constiutional changes....but, as far as the Pope is concerned......its like the pot calling the kettle black!
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Bart
simply put the pope should lead by example and tear down his walls
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Evangelist, Creto Howard
Its amazing the pope would call Trump un Christian for building a wall, why doesn't the Vatican open its borders? isn't it the smallest country on earth?, nobody's allowed in. Mt,23vs27, Jesus said to the priest," Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones and all iniquity". It was the roman religious sect of the day that killed the Son of God, pull the mote out of thine own eye, before you tell your brother to get the beam out of his eye! according to Catholic teaching the pope is without sin, it says in 1jn 1:8, "if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us". and the pope or priest cannot forgive you of your sin! 1st Tim,2vs5, says "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"....take care my friends, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".
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Catharina Hosseini Damabi
- This Pope has not build the wall, he has the wall inheritet,.
- The Pope is a human being, following this he can use the first amendment, as you do. 3 . It seems lot of energy given to the fact that the Pope said something, but less what he said. Again wondering if Jesus would be alive, would he survive the christians?
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Charlie Landman
Thank you, Catharnia, and I wonder the same thing: what would Jesus make of the world we have made, and all of the fear and intolerance around the globe, at home, and even here in these comments? Would we demand he clean up his house and his life before he could comment on anything? Probably that would be the least of it. Suppose he demanded that we actually follow his teachings, and live the love and compassion he preached? Might well be a second crucifixion. Years ago, Kris Kristofferson wrote a song about this that has always resonated with me:
Jesus was a Capricorn He ate organic food He believed in love and peace And never wore no shoes
Long hair, beard and sandles And a funky bunch of friends Reckon we'd just nail him up If he came down again
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Rev John
I think the pope has way more pressing needs to worry about than a wall between U.S. and Mexico. The wall would help to keep out not only unwanted immigrants, but people who are used as drug mules by the drug lords in Mexico. The long border between Mexico and the U.S. is also used by terrorist that come into the country to plot and destroy innocent people. I think the POPE should concentrate on the problem he has with all of the priest and Bishops that are molesting children all over the world.Talked about that would cause a climate change among Christians. In other words, don,t criticize my house until you clean yours. And yours is really dirty.We want to build a wall to protect ourselves against being invaded, The Vatican builds wall to keep the truth from being known.
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Ed
Trump said it best: The Vatican is surrounded by walls...they have no business criticizing others about building walls.
Some wouldn't even consider the Vatican, or Catholics in general, as actual Christians. Reasons vary from Orthodox and Unorthodox churches, to that they have Sunday, instead of the Seventh Day of the week as the Sabbath...which interestingly, in some languages and cultures, have a version of Sabbath be what many know as Saturday.
Course, like anyone else, the Pope's entitled to his opinion, but that's all it is.
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Rev. Ida M. Grossi, M.Div
You are all losing your country. Under this current president, administration and the democratic (communist) party, the United States of AMERICA has turned its back on God. The United States of AMERICA has turned its back on Israel. God is turning His back on America. God keeps giving us chances to make a correction in this behavior. However, He will have us fall just like other successful, historic kingdoms, empires and governments from past history. Back when we truly worshipped God, He made us powerful and great. We were blessed. This pope is soft on the murder and genocide of Christians in the world. This pope is soft on, and even allows birth control, abortions, and same sex marriage. Everything that God and the bible speaks against and warns against. I don't see Donald Trump as the antichrist. He wants to make America great again. How America was when we praised and worshipped God in the past. How this country was at its birth, as it struggled through its growing pains, through a major depression, and through several world wars. Things shifted for this country in the 1960s. That's when we began to turn against God. Even the pope back then, Pope Paul made major changes in the Catholic church. Which began the eroding and cracking in the Catholic doctorine. Unfortunately, it continues. I do see this pope as the false prophet. Perhaps the antichrist will manifest as a female. Turn back to God, pray, follow Jesus' teachings. America will be great again. God bless every child of God and God bless America.
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Simon placek
id actually pray to donald trump before id pray to christ
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Brother John
What the Pope thinks means little to much of the world. But what does the rest of the world think about Trump and, more importantly, about America and the best it has to offer as the potential "leader of the free world"?
http://globalnews.ca/news/2554446/jaw-dropping-astonishment-mixed-with-dread-what-the-world-thinks-of-donald-trump/
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Pastor Jim
Though I have not been there and laid hands on it I do Believe the Pope is protected by a wall and many men with guns. I also believe that Solomon had such a wall constructed as did many other religious figures of our history. This Pope if he condemed Trump building a wall of protection needs to resign and go back to his belovid jungles.
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Terri Davis
Every "religious leader" should promote lectures on peace through justice. The Pope should not direct judgements to specific people. The Pope has a platform to promote peace and justice throughout the world to provide listeners a spark for imagining how citizens can go about doing that.
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Rev. K. Shafer
Trump is not building a wall to keep people out. He doesn't want to keep people out of the U.S. He simply wants them to enter legally. Also, please remember our constitution. The division of church and state. We don't need a religious person. Just a person who will use good judgement and protect us from those who want to do us harm in the name of religion.
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McLellan
First of all you fail to see that BUILDING a WALL is an extreme, there is no need of it. The border patrol does a good enough job. And secondly you think Donald Trump has good judgement.
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JO-ANN
AMEN ............ how evil.... evil is... he wants to build a wall to help keep corruption out.. yet....they proclaim with constant mantra.....that he is against all Mexicans.............HEAVEN help us and we stay in LOVE and FORGIVENESS
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Brother John
I've used my ULC ordination to publish newspaper articles over the years. Here's one that's appropriate for this article….
Is yours a Peace Church? Brother John Seeland
There are many Christian churches, often called “peace churches, that refuse to participate in war and killing. These include: the Anabaptist group (Mennonites, Amish, Hutterite, etc.), Quakers, Seventh Day Adventists, some Pentecostal groups and others.
“Thou shalt not kill”, “Love your enemies, and pray for those who wrong you”, “Blessed are the peacemakers” and “Do unto others what you would have them do unto you” is very clear to them and they had, and have, the courage and conviction to adhere to them, regardless of the consequences. Many of their members have faced derision, persecution, imprisonment and even death, particularly when their countries and fellow citizens were at war and conscription was in effect. They didn’t just “talk the talk”, they “walked the walk.”
Not so with some of our mainstream Christian churches today, who have decided that “kill” was a mistranslation that should read “thou shall not murder”. This translation allows for “righteous killing” assuming there is a proper motive, intent and justification, creating a gray area that remains black and white for the Christian pacifists. For them, God created all of humankind and all lives are precious. Just as importantly, they follow the teachings of Jesus, the namesake of their religion, who is quoted in the previous paragraph.
Assuming “murder” has replaced “killing” in some versions of the Bible, what are today’s Christians to believe? What is the stance of their chosen denomination and their minister/pastor/priest? Is there a gray area? The answer will probably depend on the circumstance.
In a home invasion or robbery, is a Christian justified in using deadly force to defend themselves and their families? Many would say yes. But how about if you were the invader, in a far away country, where you chose to put yourself in harms way with no immediate threat to your family or even your country? What if the “collateral damage” from your bombs and drones included the deaths of innocent people including women and children? Does this qualify as “righteous killing”?
Brother John is ordained through the Universal Life Church
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DJ
This entire thing has been over publicized & Donald Trump couldn't have paid for that much exposure. It seems like more of a media frenzy than anything else. In the end, there are more important issues facing our world than getting stuck on things that don't really matter. EX: (He said...,He said).
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eliud colbath
Im going to get to the point.the pope has no business in politics.yes buildingbridges is a good thing when dealing with reasonable people . Walls are built to keep bad elements out. walls are built to protect us from people breaking the laws.if the laws of this country are not upheld then lawlessness takes over.pandering to people that are vulnerable is not right.people need to be educated to people like hilary. We need to expose her to what she stands for.look at both sides and dont let anyone influence you.search for truth.and then make an educated dicision.God bless you.
If the Vicar of Christ chooses to become embroiled in political issues perhaps governments should consider revoking the tax exempt status of the Catholic Church. That would place billions in the hands of governments who could help the poor.
The problem with that is the Government would not give it to the poor, but line their own pockets.
This should also apply to all other churches that choose to preach politics. Especially those despicable TV Evangelists.
Good point. And the Catholic Church through time has always been involved in politics behind the scenes. The Vatican has walls. And the jewels, statues, wealth it holds are obscene. How about if the Pope sells some "earthy" goods and helps the poor rather than encouraging them to tithe what little bit of money they really can't spare into the churches coffers. Just because this Pope delivers sermons with a little bit softer demeanor than the last doesn't mean my eyesight has gotten weaker.
Although the Pope seems to live a relatively austere lifestyle, not so for many of his brethren in high positions in the church. As the superior to all of them, why doesn't he insist they sell off the medieval finery and quit flaunting their immense wealth?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/08/pope-francis--preach-frugality-cardinals-finery-cost-15000-picture_n_4064404.html
The poor does not need another hand-out, they need knowledge and opportunity. Hand-outs are just another form of control and does not address the issue.Instead of giving a man a fish every day, how about giving him a rod and some baits and teach him to fish? The next hand-out should be given with this in mind.
Amen!!