In a recent interview, Vice President JD Vance raised the concept of "ordo amoris," or "rightly-ordered love." He explained it as an "old school Christian concept" that revolves around a ranking system of who individuals should care for and feel obligated to help – with family at the top and unmet strangers at the bottom.
This Christian hierarchy of love, he implied, guides the Trump administration’s policy on immigration, with their primary focus being on caring for American citizens first above foreigners.
“As an American leader, but also just as an American citizen, your compassion belongs first to your fellow citizens,” Vance, who is Catholic, said in the interview. "There is a Christian concept that you love your family and then you love your neighbor, and then you love your community, and then you love your fellow citizens, and then after that, prioritize the rest of the world. A lot of the far left has completely inverted that…. They seem to hate the citizens of their own country and care more about people outside their own borders.”
The interview set off a firestorm of controversy online, with scores of faithful weighing in on whether the Bible teaches of a love hierarchy.
British academic Rory Stewart weighed in to call it “a bizarre take on John 15:12-13,” that is "less Christian and more pagan tribal."
Vance then shot back that his view is not just biblical, it’s common sense.
What is "Ordo Amoris"?
Until Vance’s comments, it was a term largely unheard outside of discussions on classical philosophy and some Christian homeschooling programs. But what does this phrase mean, exactly?
Ordo amoris is a term coined by the philosopher and theologian St. Augustine and later developed by thinkers like Max Scheler. It refers to the "order of loves" or the proper hierarchy of affections and desires within a person. According to St. Augustine, a well-ordered heart prioritizes love in a way that reflects moral and spiritual integrity, loving higher goods (such as God, virtue, and justice) more than lower, transient ones (such as wealth, power, or pleasure).
This belief system was expanded upon by St. Thomas Aquinas, who said that our personal relationships should similarly follow a specific order. Above all else is the love of God, then self love, then close relations, then neighbors and our local community, and finally the world at large.
A well-ordered heart, they believed, cares for all; But we hold a stronger duty towards caring for those higher on our personal hierarchy than those on the lower rungs.
Pope Francis Weighs In
Writing on the topic of migration in a recent letter to U.S. bishops, Pope Francis appeared to specifically critique Vance's interpretation of ordo amoris.
"Christian love is not a concentric expansion of interests that little by little extend to other persons and groups," Francis wrote.
He continued:
In other words: The human person is not a mere individual, relatively expansive, with some philanthropic feelings! The human person is a subject with dignity who, through the constitutive relationship with all, especially with the poorest, can gradually mature in his identity and vocation.
The true ordo amoris that must be promoted is that which we discover by meditating constantly on the parable of the ‘good Samaritan’ (cf. Lk 10:25-37), that is, by meditating on the love that builds a fraternity open to all, without exception."
In his comments, the pope also offered thoughts on immigration policy, sparking debate over how "love thy neighbor" should be interpreted.
Opinions Remain Split
What did the wider faith world have to say in this conversation? Reactions were mixed on Vance’s endorsement of ordo amoris, and many debated just how biblically-based the concept is.
Proponents argue that it's natural to care more about your close relations than someone on another continent. Some even cited biblical passages to back up their views.
Meanwhile, others indicated a different view: that God calls us to care for all, and that following ordo amoris is a convenient excuse to act selfishly.
What do you think? The Bible calls us to love all, but should we love some more than others? Is ordo amoris rooted in – or in conflict with – the Bible?
86 comments
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Jon Nelson
I wonder if Ordo Amoris necessarily applies in this context: is the concept truly necessary to understand what is right with respect to helping others because we are faring so poorly that any help to others comes at the price of failing to help ourselves? In this case, are we as a nation truly prioritizing others over our own families? Is any family in danger of not providing for themselves because they work to provide too much for others?
Is our nation suffering because of our contributions and consideration of those less fortunate or do we just need to improve the balance of things? How many things affect that balance? Does it not seem extreme to blame some amount of foreign aid or concern and consideration of those whose only crime was not following proper procedure for asylum or immigration for our domestic problems and difficulties in taking care of our own?
Can our elected officials and experts not work to find larger imbalances in our nation's budget such that our nation will improve the balance and provide social programs for helping our own that need and deserve it while also sharing our country's bountiful wealth with those in need? Why must one come at the expense of the other when so many other things take up so much of the vast budget our nation enjoys?
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Frederick John Chiarello
There is something missing from this post. Yes the bible talks about loving your neighbors. I find it ironic that those who are quoting this scripture are non believers who keep stressing separation of church and state. As a Christian, I believe in the love your neighbor teaching from the Bible. Believers in God and His son Jesus Christ, are called to follow that teaching. There is no human being that the Christian should not show love and compassion for, and we should have a sorrowful heart, and a burden for those who are lost and don't have Christ in their hearts and life, regardless of their race, creed etc. But the bible also teaches about government, rules, regulations, conduct. As a country we have laws that pertain to migrants, immigrants, resident aliens and the like. Those laws are our guide to regulate the flow of people coming into our country. Those laws are set into place for both us and those who want to come in. There is a right way to enter this country and if they follow the law of entering, then they would be welcomed with open arms. But if they are sneeking in, then they are breaking the law. And those who break the law need to face consequences accordingly. You can't run a country solely on emotions, you get caos. If someone breaks into your home in the middle of the night, do you make them a sandwich, or do you call the police and have them arrested and escorted out of the house. There's a time to love thy neighbor, and there's a time to obey the law.
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Lion on the Beach
Start taking care of our veterans before illegals.
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Rev. BH
Yeah, Lion. Lets.
WASHINGTON, D.C.— Today, U.S. Senator Angus King (I-ME) scorned the recent firing of one thousand employees at the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) across throughout the country as having a detrimental impact on veterans and their ability to access their earned benefits.
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Travis A. Lee
Someone who doesn't believe in the Bible or Christianity has weighed in and you all are all over the place arguing with each other. EXACTLY what this fascist regime wants. They KNOW how much power "Religion" can hold and they are using it to pitch people against each other. But, whatever. I'm NOT in any Abrahamic Religions. What I will say is that YES, there is a Caste system in Heaven. It's all there. LOL! I READ the Bible to understand the Hate that is always thrown at me. Know thy enemies and keep them close.
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Scott Smith
If this is true, why are POTUS and VPOTUS threatening Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, and other programs that provide lifelines to millions?
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Lion on the Beach
Proof? Another whining attack from the "no one is watching" MSM
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Patricia Ann Gross
All of them and their friend Musk have at one time or another called Social Security and Medicare "entitlemets." They are not. I paid over $200K in my lifetime in SS taxes. That money cannot be touched, as it is in a special fund because we paid into it, just like any pention or savings plan. It was also an "insurance policy" that if I became disabled and beyond able to return to work, I would still have an income. If you want proof about Musk calling them entitlements, just ask Google to show you, and your browser might blow up he's said it so much since he took over our government.
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Rev. BH
J.D. Vance, former atheist, has a miraculous conversion to a weird version of (non-Christ) christianity in order fit in with Supreme Leader Trump's cult. According to his Ordo Amoris that ranks him below amoebas on my list.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Have y'all heard the one about Jesus having been in a gay love affair with his apostles, some of whom which left their wives to be with him, and never wanted a woman again. Like they say "Love is love".
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Rev. BH
No, I haven't.
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Patricia Ann Gross
My take on what both Augustine and Thomas Aquinas said, is that the "heirearchy" of love is not to the exclusion of everyone else. If you want to consider the Good Samaritan, none of the passers-by were poor beggars. Each had the means to help, but turned the other way, while the Samaritan not only helped the man on the road up, put him up in a hotel with an IOU that if what he gave the innkeeper wasn't enough, he would settle up his next time through. This is about the poor woman with a hungry child and just enough money in her pocket for a Happy Meal. It absolves her of feeding her child before the stranger on the street. It was not meant for rich people to hoard their money and neglect everyone else, because they fall off the hierarchy. Love is one thing. Helping others, even those you don't love (or on the bottom of that ladder), is something else. Augustine and Aquinas were trying to absolve those with little to no means, for prioritizing who they were able to help.
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James
What JD is talking about is the Abrahamic God's point of view on love, or a warrior's view. Prioritize resources according to your personal feelings or beliefs.
That is not at all what Jesus spoke of. If you look at the first part:
Love the lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul....
If you look deeper into Jesus's teachings, he taught God is in every one of us, God is you. You are the living representation.
He is saying love yourself, with all your heart mind and soul and then, when you have achieved that , go out and love everyone the exact same way.
If your house is not in order, if you do not love yourself you cannot love anyone else correctly.
Right now, America does not love itself. It has lost its identity and it's ideals and because of that , It cannot love the world properly.
We are just getting our house back in order. We are coming back to a place of self love. A place that American Citizens can be proud of.
Once that happens then we can go back to loving the world properly, because we will love who we are and be able to better love them according to who we are and not get lost.
Peace
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James
What JD is talking about is the Abrahamic God's point of view on love, or a warrior's view. Prioritize resources according to your personal feelings or beliefs.
That is not at all what Jesus spoke of. If you look at the first part:
Love the lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul....
If you look deeper into Jesus's teachings, he taught God is in every one of us, God is you. You are the living representation.
He is saying love yourself, with all your heart mind and soul and then, when you have achieved that , go out and love everyone the exact same way.
If your house is not in order, if you do not love yourself you cannot love anyone else correctly.
Right now, America does not love itself. It has lost its identity and it's ideals and because of that , It cannot love the world properly.
We are just getting our house back in order. We are coming back to a place of self love. A place that American Citizens can be proud of.
Once that happens then we can go back to loving the world properly, because we will love who we are and be able to better love them according to who we are and not get lost.
Peace
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Roy S. Thorpe
The Bible and many more religions works always seem to be open to personal interpretation! Which means anything good and bad can be twisted to fit ones life style! But in the end you'll really know the meaning when God explains it to you!
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Richard T. Dallas
There is another concept expressed in Latin: -ORDO AB CHAO- That means "Order into Chaos". We are to bring order into chaos. We can't allow an unchecked and unvetted flow of countless illegals into our country. To do that is to sow CHAOS, not order. Get in line, and wait your turn. Resources are limited, and we have an obligation to meet the needs of our own countryman first.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And what do you think about "Vini vidi vici"?
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Rudolph M Garza
I will leave JD Vance Catholic matters on love to the Church which has already spoken. As for governance, JD Vance knows the duties of his office.
Meanwhile there are a lot of ideas about "love" and sometimes in actual practice it's a little different. All that matters is one thing, does your idea work for you and keeps you and those you care about happy?
I, for one, I am not going to impose my likes and dislikes for one idea or another on anyone.
I like the 2nd tenet of ULC, express your religion anyway you like without infringing on the rights of others or breaking any laws. And with that...
I wish all my brothers and sisters health and happiness!
Reverend Rudolph Garza (I "LOVE" my title! Thanks to ULC!)
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Otha Bell
I think the Vice President, being a politician and not educated in Biblical interpretation or theology, should stay in his lane.
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Patricia Sydney Solis
What Vance doesn't understand is that the other IS YOU. The stone you omit is the cornerstone. Unconditional Love has no hierarchy and is whole and complete, but conditional love that patriarchy likes is to split things apart, fragment and categorize, causing neurosis. Until one can recognize that your neighbor is yourself, that refugee you hate and fear is your own self hatred and fear, you will live in darkness.
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Milanko Djurdjulov
We can all Love, neighbor and enemy, but not Chaotically means in a confused or disordered way, or without any order. This is universal and I believe set forth from our Creator, God. Without out a clear understanding of this all the biblical stories, writings and teachings will fall on deaf ears. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear” is a Bible verse that appears in Matthew 11:15 and Mark 4:9. "Jesus used this phrase to encourage people to pay close attention to what he was saying. " Deacon Milanko Djurdulov.
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John Reseigh
First off, this concept is brought to you by the same people who burned heretics at the stake so I don't give it much credence. Second, the commentors do what apologists so often do and that is cherry pick Bible verses from different books to shore up their arguments. Jesus was clear in his teaching that loving one another was second only to loving God.
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Lady Mutt Cat
I completely support this, as long as it is understood that I am doing so as a Witch and not as a Christian. We value "Home and Hearth". My husband always came first. Now it's our cats. Then I give to the rest of the world.
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Rev. B.D. Rees
I think Christ made it abundantly clear... Love thy neighbor as thyself... If one follows that to it's conclusion then, one can only assume it means God first, everyone else second. This includes yourself, Family, and others after God. This to simply mean, If I truly Love God, then helping others becomes my show of faith in my God and how much I love him/her.
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John Robert Peters
I remind the people posting here of the motto of the ULC to which we all seemingly adhere: We are all children of the same universe.
As a Pantheist I extend this to all things not just the anthropromorphic interpretations. If you love God then you must love all things, treat them with respect and dignity as you would do to yourself, and protect them as you would yourself.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I love God, Goddess, and the ultimate unknowable Deity more than anything else, but don't truly love the people who I don't know, even though I do care about the good and decent people of this world. And the ones I'm in the closet relationships with are the ones I love the most. Caring about something and loving it are two different things. Someone can say they love everyone and everything all they want, but if they believe that, I think they're only deceiving themselves, or trying to deceive others into believing they're goodie two shoes.
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David Arthur Lewis
So... Do these Christian Fascists also have an "ordo odium" or Order of Hate? It seems that they practice hate much more than love.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Ephesians 5:22— Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.
Titus 2:9— Slaves are to submit to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative
Deuteronomy 23:1-3 1 “If a man’s testicles are crushed or his penis is cut off, he may not be admitted to the assembly of the LORD . 2 “If a person is illegitimate by birth, neither he nor his descendants for ten generations may be admitted to the assembly of the LORD . 3 “No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants for ten generations may be admitted to the assembly of the LORD .
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Reverend Paula Copp
I never have “obeyed” a man, nor will I EVER “obey” a man! Any man who thinks he can tell me a damn thing, has another think coming… more men than not in this forum have only emphasized my determination.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Iny bedroom, behind closed doors, I've worshipped some women like demi-goddesses, and some have worshipped me too. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. However, it's best to leave those games in the bedroom.
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ServantOfJudgement
Oh I don't know about that Paula.
If a man said, "Why don't you pick out a place somewhere in the world you'd like to vacation for a week and I'll pick up the tab, you might obey his request.
If a man said, I want you to tag along with me down to the car dealership and I want you to pick out a car you'd like, you might obey his request.
What if the man said tell me what kind of vegetables you'd like me to grow in the garden for you. Would you obey his request and tell him what you like so he could please you?
Obedience comes in many forms and mindsets. I realize some men and women interpret obedience not from Gods perspective but from Man's perspective as you do Paula along with nearly all liberals. The biblical perspective of man and wife being obedient to one another is as I've laid out in my examples, which my wife and I practice. Obedience in this form sprouts naturally from love where coercion is neither required or welcome.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Reverend Paula, there is no force on Earth more evil then the patriarchy. The world will never no peace until it's toppled.
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Stacey Owens
This is spiritual according to the Holy Spirit. It is written that Jesus Christ was the one that would baptize a believer with the Holy Spirit. In Ephesians 5:22. A woman is not submitting because he is her husband. She is submitting beause of the obdience to Christ just like Jesus was obdient to God when he layed down his life for the world. As it is written, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. This is the wisdom of God through the Holy Spirit.
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all your getting get understanding. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal the Kingdom of God.
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ServantOfJudgement
I've seen a few husbands who've submitted to their wives. That's quite the show, sure to shock the first time viewer.
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Amber Fry
First, I really don't care what Vance does or says. He's about at bright as a post. Second, does it really matter the order of the list? It's on the list. And family first doesn't have to mean family only, or family and then maybe, if I have time... or maybe, if they are deserving... We really have to get out of the "me against the world" mentality. It's only serving to destroy our world. Protect when you have to but at least try to be helpful and civil otherwise.
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Irvin March Cutler
My beliefs are 1. God first “Self” 2.family, 3 Country, Friends, then 4. Acquaintances. Anyone who breaks the law is last and needs to be dealt with accordingly but to forgive is ones option. If your in America “My Country “ illegally you need to be sent back to your own Country. I believe it’s up to each person to contribute to their own country and not come to another’s expecting handouts. Make your own land great.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Luke 7:58 (NIV): Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”
Jesus was a homeless refugee, yet we worship him. Unfortunately, if he showed up again today, we would probably deport him.
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Rudolph M Garza
JD Vance can justify his actions anyway he likes. I only care about the end result. After all, "action speaks louder than words".
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JT Sunrise
Rev. JTSunrise: The Mandate of Unbounded Love
“Love your neighbor as yourself.” — Mark 12:31 “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” — Leviticus 19:18 “Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and do good to parents, relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, and the neighbor farther away.” — Quran 4:36 “Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam” (The world is one family). — Ancient Vedic teaching “May all beings be happy; may all beings be free from suffering.” — Karaniya Metta Sutta
The sacred call to love is not a privilege to be rationed based on self-interest or confined by the narrow borders of a misguided patriotism. Across the sacred texts of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism, the command is clear: every soul, regardless of origin, deserves our care and compassion.
Today, we witness leaders and policies that seek to prioritize one group over another—policies that shun the refugee in favor of a restricted notion of community. When public sentiment is stirred to build walls around our hearts and our neighborhoods, we stray far from the divine mandate. The true Gospel, as well as the timeless wisdom of our ancient traditions, calls us to extend our hands to the stranger, the marginalized, and the oppressed. This is not a matter of political expediency; it is the moral law of the Creator.
Modern examples are glaring: communities turning away those fleeing violence, corporations neglecting the plight of the impoverished, and governments enforcing exclusion under the guise of national interest. These actions are a betrayal of the sacred principles found in Matthew 25:35—“I was hungry and you gave me food; I was thirsty and you gave me drink; I was a stranger and you welcomed me.” Such selective compassion is not only unchristian, it is an affront to all that is just in every faith.
Our ancient texts and teachings remind us that true love is unbounded. The Torah and the teachings of the Prophets demand justice and mercy for all. The Quran extols those who care for their neighbor, near and far. Hindu wisdom proclaims that the entire earth is our family, and the Buddha teaches that boundless loving-kindness must extend to every sentient being.
We must reject the ideology that divides and isolates. We must expose the deception of those who manipulate the call to “love thy neighbor” to suit narrow, self-serving agendas. The measure of our faith is not in who we exclude but in how we extend unconditional care to all. The ancient mandate is a call to transcend prejudice, to dismantle barriers, and to build a community where every human life is valued.
The time is now to act with unwavering resolve. Let us demonstrate our commitment to truth by opening our hearts and hands wide to all, following the sacred example set before us by our spiritual forebears. This is the only path toward a just and united future—a future where every soul is embraced as part of the one human family.
Rev. JTSunrise Celestial Nexus Church, Seattle, WA
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Reverend Paula Copp
Maybe, just maybe, if we followed the golden rule there would be no need for a descending order of loving relationships.
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Thunder
The Golden Rule should say "Do NOT do to others what THEY do not want done.", or to put it more succinctly "Take NO for an answer." In it's more commonly known formulation it's simply an excuse to foist one's own preferences on the unwilling (eg. ramming Christinanity down everyone's throat).
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Valerie Van Haltern
Do we need anger, judgement, hate, shame and blame......love and diplomacy work so much better ....there is not one among us who is not guilty.......enough stones have been thrown - where do we go from here......if we all walked the path of the good Samaritan for an hour or day or the rest of our lives would it hurt us so very much???? life is short, take a breath - connect with creator and mother earth, the gifts we have been given....honor those gifts, share......remember gratitude....if you had a minute left to live would you use that minute to leave a kindness? these are simple things
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
‘I am a stranger and an alien residing among you; give me property among you for a burying place, so that I may bury my dead out of my sight.’ Genesis 23:4
You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. Deuteronomy 10:19
The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Leviticus 19:34
‘Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.’ Then all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ Deuteronomy 27:19
When they were few in number, of little account, and strangers in the land, wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people, he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account, saying, ‘Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm.’ 1 Chronicles 16:19-22
I was eyes to the blind, and feet to the lame. I was a father to the needy, and I championed the cause of the stranger. I broke the fangs of the unrighteous, and made them drop their prey from their teeth. Job 29:15-17
The Lord watches over the strangers; he upholds the orphan and the widow, but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin. Psalm146:9
For if you truly amend your ways and your doings, if you truly act justly one with another, if you do not oppress the alien, the orphan, and the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own hurt, then I will dwell with you in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your ancestors forever and ever. Jeremiah 7:5-7
You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who reside among you and have begotten children among you. They shall be to you as citizens of Israel; with you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. Ezekiel 47:22
Thus says the Lord of hosts: Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another; do not oppress the widow, the orphan, the alien, or the poor; and do not devise evil in your hearts against one another. Zechariah 7:9-10
You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you. Matthew 5:43-44
I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me. Matthew 25:35
Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of my brethren you did it to me. Matthew 25:40
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself. Luke 10:27
Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. Acts 10:34
Contribute to the needs of the saints; extend hospitality to strangers. Romans 12:13
Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. Romans 13:8
Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Romans 13:10
In that renewal there is no longer Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and free; but Christ is all and in all. Colossians 3:11
Let mutual love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it. Remember those who are in prison, as though you were in prison with them; those who are being tortured, as though you yourselves were being tortured. Hebrews 13:1-3
Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do for the friends, even though they are strangers to you; they have testified to your love before the church. You do well to send them on in a manner worthy of God; for they began their journey for the sake of Christ, accepting no support from non-believers. Therefore we ought to support such people, so that they may become co-workers with the truth. 3 John 1:5
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “See the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them as their God; they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them.” Revelation 21:3
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Thunder
This neighborly advice only applies to people who worship the Abrahamic God according to the OT (Jews) or NT (Christians). In nearly every other case in the book it advocates to mercilessly murder thy neighbor (especially if they're Pagan) including their women, children and even their livestock. In some cases if even one person offends the Abrahamic God (eg. speak the name of a foreign deity, criticize a Rabbi, depict their deity using visual artforms, etc) or their ancestors did, their entire civilization is to be brutally murdered, including their women, children and livestock. In a few cases the Israelites are allowed to keep the women and livestock for themselves. In fact if the neighbor is Jewish but does not adhere to the Torah strictly enough (eg. woman who has premarital sex, those who perform divination, commit adultery, are apostates, etc) it says they should be dragged out into the street and either stoned to death by a mob, or burned alive. The history of Abrahamic religion from it's beginning to the present as I type has been characterized by one Biblically endorsed genocide after another. You can cherry pick all the chapter and verse you like, but that fact remains undeniable. To cherry pick a verse of my own, "You shall know them by their fruits."
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Lawrence Pearce
All of those words are meaningless because the god of Moses told him to kill all men, women and children in Palestine Canaan.
Deuteronomy 7:16 "You must destroy ALL the peoples the Lord your God will deliver to you. Do not look on them with pity. Do not worship their gods, for that will be a snare to you."
Numbers 31.17-18 "So now, kill all the boys, as well as every woman who has had relations with a man, but spare for yourselves every virgin girl who has never had relations with a man." (Moses decided he wanted the underage girls for himself and his fellows so he gave orders to bring the girls back to him to inspect their virginity.)
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Lawrence your quotes do nothing more then prove that the God of Abraham is an evil, murderous entity.
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Blake Andrew Tallman
well love thy neihbor does mean love everyone as u would love urself but the hate groups dont love anyone so should we give them love back or should we hate them as they have hated us for me i love and care too much but i cant care or love someone who doesnt care for themselves cause then that person is just using me cause they cant love themselves and im gay so i do like the same sex but i cant love a guy who doesnt take care of himself cause then it puts too much on me so yes love thy neihbor as u would love urself and treat others as u would treat urself otherwise when u r down and out then other people wont care for u and they have a right not to but make sure they r not using u cause there is a difference in that if they r using u then u have a right not to love them if they dont use u then love them.
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John Robert Peters
Very nice post. Thank you for this.
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Alexander Arends
To love God is to worship him. That is the first commandment. Loving your neighbor is the second commandment. In this case I believe "your neighbor" means anyone but yourself. That does not mean that you can't prioritize. Loving members of your family means nourishing and protecting them. Loving your neighbor means having compassion for others.
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Thunder
The statement "good Samaritan" implies that Samaritans are defacto "not good", which required making this special qualification to point out the exception. This is due to ancient antagonism between Jews and Samaritans. Samaritans are a minority Abrahamic religion related to Judaism which still exists. They weren't among the fabled 10 lost tribes, nor subject to the Assyrian captivity, and thus have a different Torah (laws) from Jews. The Samaritans consider their own Torah to be the original unaltered version. Anyway, citing the "good Samaritan" as evidence of the need for importance of hospitality between neighbors is highly ironic because Jews and Samaritans were never on good terms historically.
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Lawrence Pearce
The Torah consists of the first five books of the bible. You are probably thinking of the Talmud which came from Babylon when the Jews returned to Jerusalem.
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Thunder
No. I'm referring to the Samaritan Torah.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_Pentateuch
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Thunder
Incidentally, the oldest copy of the Pentateuch in Hebrew is the Masoretic Text which is from 1000 CE. Beyond a few excerpts such as in the Dead Sea scrolls, and some disparate out of context fragments like the Ketef Hinnom scrolls (a magical amulet/mezuzah for protecting the dead), there is little evidence other than legend to substantiate the Torah existing in Hebrew whatsoever prior to the Septuagint (3rd century CE), and zero evidence for it's common practice prior to 3rd century BCE.
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Thunder
This concept also exists in Germanic/Norse Paganism as circles of frith.
https://www.friggasweb.org/frith.html
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Lawrence Pearce
You're right. This seems to be hardwired into all people around the earth. Only the insane disagree with this basic common sense approach which prefers our family and neighbors to the strangers invading our nation.
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Rev'd Andrew
So Jesus was insane, according to you. Another interesting take.
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Najah P Tamargo
Najah Tamargo-USA
I think a lot of people are missing the point. The Pres and VP want US to love them like God's. Then us and our families an neighbors. There is no place in their world for immigrants, although our entire country is made up of IMMIGRANTS!!!! And they treat the people that were here FIRST as thou they are no better than the immigrants they are trying to keep out!! I think they need to keep their religious beliefs to themselves!!!!
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Lionheart
Our country, the USA, was first established by Settlers, and then immigrants. I am one of those immigrants that, like most, came here “legally” in 1987. It took me two years of organizing, and by visiting the American Embassy in London on two occasions to be interviewed and vetted to be accepted into the United States. That’s how it should be done. Do you have a problem in understanding how legal immigration works, Najah?
🦁❤️
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ServantOfJudgement
I didn't catch that Najah. I read that Vance puts citizens ahead of foreigners.
On a personal level I read he puts family ahead of neighbors and so on.
The interesting thing is I do the exact same thing. You do realize Vance married an immigrant right?
Could you please explain how he hates immigrants and loves an immigrant enough to marry and build a family with?
Ps, when you explain it make it easy, I'm just a dumb country boy with little to no education.
Do you want a president that cares more about foreigners than his own citizens?
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Lawrence Pearce
There's a HUGE difference between legal immigration and illegal invasions! Look them up. Most of our US ancestors had to go through an immigration process that required ID, background checks, proof they had jobs available here and they would NOT be dependent on US citizens for any of their food, housing or medical care. Many were sent back to their home countries because they failed to meet the basic standards.
Apply those same standards to the illegal invaders and 99 percent of them will be sent back home in their own country. They're just here for the freebies and the chance to rob us, r*ape girls and set up gang members to do the same to us.
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Michael Hunt
"Apply those same standards to the illegal invaders and 99 percent of them will be sent back home in their own country. They're just here for the freebies and the chance to rob us, r*ape girls and set up gang members to do the same to us."
Pure racism. Nothing in that paragraph is factual. It's purely slander of immigrants.
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ServantOfJudgement
Kindly Michael, some illegals are most certainly here for nefarious reasons. Some are here for a better life that do nefarious things, some are here for a better life at our expense. Some are here to make US dollars to send home where the value multiplies by 20 or 30x. Some are here for honest living. All are here illegally.
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Patricia Ann Gross
SOJ, while I agree that a person that is here illegally (i.e. not fully vetted and with the appropriate immigration documents, visas, etc., should be returned to their home country provided there isn't an assylum hearing pending, the rhetoric surrounding immigrants does not distinguish the two. An immigrant is considered here illegally until proven differently.
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Clark Johnson
Illegal immigrant isn’t a race or ethnicity. I find that those who believe that illegal immigrants are all one race are generally shallow of thought and fairly racist themselves.
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Colin Jeffrey
Wow, overt racism certainly seems to be alive and well in the US, despite the fact that the bible of the predominant religion specifically said:
“Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt."
- Exodus 22:21
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Lawrence, Illegal invaders? Really? Like the early settlers that came here and killed the native Americans? Those coming across the borders through improper channels aren't killing wide swaths of American citizens, or raping and pillaging their way across the country. Without a social security number or proof of address, you can't get any "freebies". And not 1, not 1 of these aliens have committed a third the crimes that our President has been convicted of.
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John Robert Peters
Well modifying an old syllogism: God is Love Love is Blind Reoublicans are Blind Therefore, Republicans are Gods
So much here is idle speculation and undocumented comments it is really hard to take most of the responders seriously. I am quite sure AI would be a better way to have a conversation about what is happening in the US/
My prayers are for all and not just in the heirarchy suggested by Augustine, who himself had some serious psychological problems which he wove into his theological speculations. The Gnostic true One, God, is love and wisdom, What is posted here is mostly sophistry derived from a mad god. God is love, mercy and forgiveness. Pray to that God and stop bickering about heirarchies and justifications.
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Nicholas J Page
Pope Francis is in hospital so how can he have a conversation or was it before he was hospitalised
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Lawrence Pearce
Poope Francis probably has dementia and that's why he has 80 foot tall walls around his vatican palace, while he lectures the rest of us to get rid of our walls that protect our families from criminal invaders, burglars and killers.
https://www.livescience.com/64410-vatican-city-walls-explained.html
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Rev. BH
Sounds like Trump's Mar a-Lago compound.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I don't know about you Nicholas, but I always had a telephone in my hospital room. It may be different on the charity ward.
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Lawrence Pearce
Maybe the evil master of the pope is trying to bring him back down to the hot place where he was born? Aren't there more than a few who deserve the pain they have caused others to suffer while they were here on earth?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Lawrence, karmic retribution is like that.
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Drew Stangle
So did everyone catch that citizens are second to last on that list? They will help themselves, and their friends(i.e donors) before they even remotely consider the citizens of the country. If anyone believes we the people are their friends or neighbors you are wholly misguided on who these people actually care about.
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ServantOfJudgement
Vance said us citizens first over foreigners. That's logical and expected of a leader.
Vance said love family and then you love your neighbor, and then you love your community, and then you love your fellow citizens, and then after that, prioritize the rest of the world. That's logical and expected of a family man.
Please don't tell me you let your family starve while you send bags of rice to Ethiopian warlords so they can fuel their conquests Drew. I hope not.
Tell me why it's wrong to put citizens ahead of foreigners like Vance said. Then tell me why it's wrong to put your wife ahead of the neighbors wife like Vance said. Both are sure to blow my mind.
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Lionheart
That sounds right to me 🙌🏻. My wife comes first in my family. Do people here in the US really think different to this ideology? I guess they do, knowing how they are happy for our own citizens, some being Vets, to be homeless over illegal aliens.
Great post SOJ 🤗
🦁❤️
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Rev'd Andrew
The hierarchy VP Vance described is logical for members of a secular community. It is not, however, consistent with the teachings of Christ. There's nothing wrong with favoring family, then community, then country, and then everyone else, provided you don't claim that to do so is "Christian". It isn't.
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ServantOfJudgement
Hardly true Andrew. There are several old and new testament passage that tell us to do precisely what VP Vance says he does.
For example, in Mark, Jesus criticizes religious leaders for encouraging people to dedicate their resources to religious offerings while neglecting their parents.
We have a practical creator that knows we must care for our own ahead of strangers and even the church. Jesus meets us where we live and knows our hearts.
How nice it is to have leaders that share and express this basic and common human reality. Let's hope that they follow through with their promise and put USA ahead of strangers.
It's odd to me that any citizen would oppose this. I suppose sometimes you have to drag people to success whether they like it or not.
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Lawrence Pearce
Elon and his DOGE posse just discovered 20 million frauds claiming social security, ages 100 to 360 years old!
How long has our social security trust fund been robbed by democrats and republicans before Trump and Elon exposed the grifters being protected by our corporate owned fake news media who could never find any reporter to investigate these social security thieves?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14406439/doge-social-security-fraud-dead-people-vampires.html
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Michael Hunt
And what evidence has Musk provided to prove this? All he's done is make a claim but he hasn't backed it up. The truth is much less dramatic: https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/feb/17/are-150-year-old-americans-receiving-social-securi/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-doge-social-security-150-year-old-benefits/
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John Robert Peters
This is all ridicuolus posturing to justify a dictatorial rule of a formerly democratic nation...some say we are not democratic but a representational democracy. Well now we are neither. The claims from the administration are all disastorous lies and doublethink. Trump has now accused Ukraine of initiating a war against Russia. Vance is justifying cruelty to anyone low on his personal list of love. There is nothing in the New Testament to justify anything he and his Lord Trump are doing and there is nothing documented to justify the accusations of the non-elected Trump appointee Musk led posse attacking federal employees who have spent their lives serving the Nation.Neither Musk nor Trump are veterans and yet they allow slashing of services for veterans in the VA and elsewhere by cutting programs and employees who serve the veterans. This whole thing makes me sick and fearful. Christianity was never meant to be a political party nor a religion to prosyletize through force, regulation, and decrees of law. The Christian Nation concept is both the death of trueChrtistianity and the death of Democracy. May God have mercy on us all and forgive those who mock his words through sophist justification for cruelty.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
John, The part of your statement I agree with 100%. The second half, I feel you're incorrect about. Christianity has had a convert or die mentality for most of it's existence (The driving out the serpents from Ireland, ie: the Druids/The "Holy" Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, the Witch burnings in Europe and the Witch trials of Salem, Slavery was endorsed in this country by the church). To that you can add the inequality of women in America, the persecution of the LBGTQ+ community, anti-abortion extremities that include blowing up clinics, and the coverup and encouragement of pedophile priests.
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James Bullard
That has been debunked. What is ridiculous is that Musk/DOGE were given access to the raw SS data. The SS Administration publishes accurate summaries publicly. Instead, Musk/DOGE have gone in and made outrageous and unsupported claims based on their misinterpretation of how the system works.You can't "audit" data that you don't understand.
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James Mounts
After years of being last on the list, I am enjoying being, at least, next to last.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
James, it sounds like you're climbing the ladder of success. Keep up the good work!
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Prioritizing your own family before you help others is perfectly natural, and the logical and instinctive thing for social animals to do. It makes sense in terms of efficiency, it makes sense in terms of satisfying emotional bonds, and it makes sense in terms of personal ethics. Where it does not make sense is to bring religion into it, because Jesus very, very clearly said to equate the care of others with care of self, and demonstrated time and again that he did not want people to turn down requests of aid from foreigners. Trying to twist the words of Jesus, or ignoring them in favor of human speakers in the Bible, is just ridiculous. Vance needs to quit being a blasphemous coward and just own being human and not giving a rat's patoot what Jesus said to do.