Forget climate change. Pastor-turned-Bronx-councilman Fernando Cabrera spends his days worried about rising Democratic star Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Especially now that he's looking to usurp her seat in Congress.
"My biggest concern is socialism as being the biggest problem that we're going to face in America," declared the 55-year-old centrist Democratic candidate and Hispanic evangelical preacher at the New Life Outreach International Church.
Of course, Cabrera isn't only banking that his pro-capitalist stance will help inoculate against AOC's democratic socialism. In many ways, and like many politicians on both sides of the aisle in this country, he's betting that constituents want more religion in their politics, not less.
To make that point, Cabrera criticized AOC's response to the March 2019 New Zealand mosque shooting, in which she tweeted: "What good are your thoughts & prayers when they don't even keep the pews safe?" For the pastor, the quip betrayed a certain "detachment" from the religious rituals that bring followers a peace and comfort no government can. "It just shows me that she has no understanding what prayer means to both Christians and Muslims. We need somebody in Congress that gets it."
Faith Fight
To be fair, AOC has regularly referenced her own Catholic faith, both in Congress and on the campaign trail. She's argued those beliefs helped inform her stance on criminal justice reform, and cited Bible passages to support curbing climate change.
Ever since his own life-altering "encounter with God" at age 17, Cabrera proudly wears his religion on his political sleeve. And as far as conflicts between church and state go, he sees none, even if he's been forced to defend his public record on LGBTQ rights and explain his own personal opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage. "Our Constitution was established to have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion," he says.
He is not alone. Many other Hispanic evangelicals - a growing voting bloc in key swing states - have echoed similar conservative stances on social issues. The board of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference, on which he sits, recently convened a call-in prayer meeting for him, hosted by Trump faith advisor Rev. Samuel Rodriguez.
Juan Martínez, professor of Hispanic studies and pastoral leadership at Fuller Theological Seminary, made the point that "most Latinos will tend to be socially conservative on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage but will tend to be social liberals on issues like education and immigration, so we've tended to be divided on how we spread the vote." He continued, mentioning that many Hispanic voters cannot be easily boxed into one party. "Those of us who have voted," he says, "have struggled with this for years because the Democrat/Republican way this is broken out doesn't fit us well."
Do Religion and Politics Mix?
What the Cabrera/AOC battle reveals is that religion in politics is clearly not a red versus blue issue anymore. And even though society is becoming more secular on the whole, a great many voters still care about their political representatives' faiths. We may just see how important that is to voters when they cast their votes in the Democratic primary next year.
While there may be some truth to Cabrera's claims that his ministerial experience has brought him closer to the people he hopes to serve, and though there may be some wisdom in having AOC Bible-check her Green New Deal with the hopes of expanding support beyond idealistic millennials, there's still the larger question of how democracy truly benefits when religion and politics become one and the same.
What do you think? Given our country's clear separation of church and state, is it really appropriate for clergypeople to run for office? Or are our leaders better when their political decisions informed by their faith? Do God and government ever truly mix?
87 comments
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Jeanine Mary Hoffman
I agree!! TRUMP 2020!!! 😁😁😁🙏🙏
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Richard Lee Cornell
Sorry he does not have the money like Bloomberg has. Faith or no faith AOC has him dead to start with. She is a female and her words can bite while he must be gentle and not say what is true about AOC. There is a series on my local PBS about "The raises of the NAZI' that could apply to today"s elections. AOC as nasty as she is will call everyone who runs against her as a white raciest and it will stick. The pastor with his hands tired will not call her out.
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Daniel Gray
yet even more left wing myth. How nice
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Daniel Gray
yet even more left wing myth. How nice
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John D. Partin
Daniel E. Gray, anyone can toss out the phrase "left wing myth" or anything else they like and give no substantiation or evidence of that claim and then expect people to just go along with their statement, but that isn't going to happen (among sensible people, anyway) just on your say so! What is your evidence backing up that claim that anyone other than someone who already agrees with you would accept as proof of it? Until you come up with that, you are just wasting your and our time tossing out these phrases and are just talking here to read your own words!!
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, a parable, by definition, can't be taken literally. Jesus' saying in a parable that a character declared "bring those enemies of mine, who do not want me to reign over them and slay them before me" no more literally means slay his enemies than his saying "if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out and if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off" literally means pluck out your eye or both eyes or cut off your hands, but only don't let the smaller issues get in the way of the bigger issues. He might merely have been describing the attitude of worldly dictators, who do kill their enemies. If Jesus had really thought that killing enemies who were around him was a good idea and the way to go, he had the perfect opportunity to follow through on that and kill, instead of just drive out, all the moneychangers in the temple (since if you can drive them out, you can kill them with only a little more effort!) and kill the Temple guards who came to arrest him and tell Peter to keep hacking away at their ears and other body parts and the other disciples to join in and kill the Pharisees if he had still been brought before them for trial, since they were old men and easily dispensed with. "Put up your sword. Don't you know that I could call legions of angels to defend me, but how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled?" and "All those who live by the sword shall die by the sword" aren't compatible at all with "bring those enemies of mine, who do not want me to reign over them and slay them before me", if meant literally. You might think that Jesus was delusional when he said that he could summon legions of angels to defend him, but he believed that he could do it, whether he could or not, and so he could hardly have believed in taking personal vengeance on anyone when he believed that he could always summon legions of angels to do it for him. Many people have killed other people in Jesus' name, which is my and many other people's complaint about Christianity, but Jesus himself never killed anyone or let his followers kill anybody while he was still physically with them to prevent them from doing so. After he was gone, that was another story! Jesus couldn't have been too much of a narcissist or working very hard at it and gaining worldly power because when he was offered a worldly throne and crown to reign over the Jews, he ran away. He didn't even go as far as that with narcissism and so certainly can't be reasonably or honestly compared to Hitler, who went very much further with it. Let's be fair. I think that your dislike of Christians is leading you into unfair statements about Jesus, too. I don't believe, the same as you don't, that God sends anyone to Hell or that he is as petty and vindictive as the people who are ascribing all of these actions and attitudes to him and defining him. I don't believe that God sent a flood to destroy the world or that he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah or that he turned a woman into a "pillar of salt" or any of the other ridiculous and vicious things that were ascribed to him by Bible writers, making him reflect their own attitudes and desires, anymore than I believe everything written about people in the National Enquirer. I could no more believe all of these things that Bible writers have written about God than I could believe that all of the homophobia in the Bible actually was said by God, instead of just put into his mouth by homophobic Bible writers, in order to make him "sanctify" and "justify" their own views and impose them on other people even easier!! If flesh-and-blood people, who can even defend themselves against lies and distortions of fact, can still be lied about in the tabloids and the tabloids will be believed by some people, how much easier is it to lie and make up things about a God Who can't or won't come down and correct every misstatement that anybody makes about him?! People's sending themselves to Hell is another story because how often do we see people in this world living in self-made Hells, when the way out of their misery and Hell is right in front of them and staring them in the face: drug addicts, alcoholics, people in unhappy marriages, etc.---and still they go on in their misery?!! As C.S. Lewis wrote: "The door to Hell is locked on the inside". It isn't blackmail just to say that there are consequences to your actions, even if you bring them on yourself, but is just facing reality, anymore than it is "blackmail" to say that there are consequences for breaking human laws, such as going to jail or prison. If there is a life after this life, some people will have forever to put themselves into self-made Hells, the same as they did here. You can't blame their decision to do so on God.
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Clarke Alexander
Religion and politics are so much alike that they do not mix. Religion is a set of beliefs that's sole purpose is to control what you do, say, think and to separate you from your money. Each religious "brand" attempts to convince you that their way is the one and only way and that you should forsake all other religions. Politics is a set of beliefs that try to to do the same thing. Each candidate tries to convince you that their way is the one and only way and that you should send them money. They are the same but just enough different that they can not be blended together. Both are corrupt at their core and depend on gullible followers to succeed.
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Jim lovegrove
These comments, being constructed and posted by people who have taken up a cross to follow Jesus and the only commandment he gave us was to love one another as he loves. Judge mental Christians are so very far from that central point. How can one comment on his picture? How can anyone distrust only from what’s been read? Pray on it. If his views and opinions do not align with your own, move along and focus that energy on something positive that you can achieve. Social media has destroyed our ability to not respond. We feel our opinion matters. Sadly, this body of religious leadership, who have sought to further Gods kingdom in some fashion are the very ones who God wanted change from. Look within first. Remove the plank from your own eye before you point out the one in others.
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Mark Green
No, he can't win. And a good thing, too.
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? and you expect someone who 70% of her own district has said they wont re-elect her is somehow going to win?
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Tom Wilson
Here is a problem I see with this post and others. One is that it doesn't recognize that religiosity/religion and spirituality are two different and opposing forces but that religion and politics are nearly the the same thing. Both religion and politics attempt to control people with fear and shame for the purpose of increasing riches of those who are supposedly religious or political representatives/leaders. Both are used to make someone rich. When mixed together they are both even more exploitive of those who are subjected by them whether voluntarily or involuntarily.
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Michael Mangold
Very insightful. I have stopped telling people that I am "religious" but rather "spiritual" for that reason. It also allows me to acknowledge and approve of others who are on spiritual paths of their own, no matter what religion they identify with.
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Scott Shelton
socialism is an economics system. it is when the people own the means of production. it would actually be a good system if people would take the time to learn things instead of always taking the easy way out. anyway, when the government taxes its citizens, that is not socialism. if the the government wants to do something that not all its citizens approve of, that is not socialism, it is closer to fascism, but its not that either. when people scream "bloody murder", they really should know who the "murderer" is...or they just look uneducated...
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Terrence
Google “failure of the commons”.
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Psychiatrists near me
Hi, great article. We must all be equal before the law, regardless of personal, religious and sexual preferences, national differences, etc. We all make different choices in life, but we must have equal rights as citizens. Due to religious beliefs, people can decide not to have abortions, not to get divorced, to have relationships with the other sex just for childbearing, not to have same-sex marriages. This is an individual choice that should be respected, no matter how erroneous we may consider it or how heated debate it may cause. However, no religion can strive to impose its worldview on others, regardless of whether they are adherents of other faiths or simply universal values. Good luck!
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Luke
By the way, if you are looking for a psychologist or help with depression. Then you here - https://www.depressionalliance.org/psychiatrist-near-me/.
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Noel
Religion is good, of course, if it's not fanatics .... Good advice!
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but Sexual Preference is not classified as a protected class such as age or sex or disability. You are free to think it all you wish but you are not free to make a claim that is so clearly false.
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Michael Mangold
Afraid? As an older White male I so disagree,and find your comments disgusting. I personally love younger, strong, and motivated women. I appreciate these qualities in older women, too. Always have.
As for the rest of your comments, all of those governmental policies and services didn't exist until very very recently in our species and we seemed to get along fine without them. You're also confusing a disdain of government in general with a disdain for the recipients of government largess. Not the same thing at all. I love my neighbors as myself and don't expect the state to do it for me.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
What a moron. He has no clue about the difference between socialism which is an economic structure versus communism. Oh, how he hates all those socialist benefits like public schools, fire departments, first responders, the military health care system known as Tricare, social security, etc. Best he goes back to school and learns something. These old white men are so terrified of strong intelligent and articulate women.
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Frank Villari
“The useful idiots, the leftists who are idealistically believing in the beauty of the Soviet socialist or Communist or whatever system, when they get disillusioned, they become the worst enemies. That’s why my KGB instructors specifically made the point: never bother with leftists. Forget about these political prostitutes. Aim higher. They serve a purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. For example, your leftists in the United States: all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defenders. They are instrumental in the process of the subversion only to destabilize a nation. When their job is completed, they are not needed anymore. They know too much. Some of them, when they get disillusioned, when they see that Marxist-Leninists come to power—obviously they get offended—they think that they will come to power. That will never happen, of course. They will be lined up against the wall and shot.” -- Yuri Bezmenov (1939-1993), former Soviet journalist and KGB informant
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John D. Partin
Frank Villari, you are talking here about the scheme of a government for the "subversion of the United States" (the former Soviet Union) that itself no longer exists and hasn't since 1993! Who subverted whom?! It certainly sounds as though they were the ones who got subverted, since they are gone and we are still here! If leftism and liberalism were merely "useful idiocy" to that regime and if civil rights work and defense were merely "going along with the enemies of America and contributing to the subversion of this country", then I suppose that the Klan and other right-wing groups and individuals were "pro-American and working for the good and betterment of this country and against the Soviets" by fighting against civil rights and attacking civil rights workers, unless you are now going to say that pro-civil rights and anti-civil rights activists were "just putting on a show for the benefit of the public and to distract attention from the evil machinations and schemes of the Soviets and their maneuvers in this country"?! This conspiracy buff "thinking" and weaving of nefarious scenarios certainly becomes ridiculous and illogical very quickly, if followed through to its logical conclusion!! Standing up for civil rights isn't anti-American or subversive to this country, but is pro-American and the responsibility of us all for the defense and continued existence of this country, as gung-ho as that might sound, especially from a Liberal, such as myself! Also, why is a person, such as yourself, who "had KGB instructors" ,not in prison for espionage and treason against this country, unless you are now telling us that you were "a double agent and spying on the Soviets, too"?! I believe that you would benefiit greatly and have your eyes opened by listening to and letting sink in and be accepted by you Carly Simon's song "You're So Vain". In the meantime, I'll leave you to your "vitally important undercover work for the government and profound theorizing on their behalf" and have a very good night, Mr. Bond---James Bond!!
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Daniel Gray
Sorry catherine, but nothing in the Military or the VA is socialistic. You really need to stop posting your myths and expect people to believe them. Military medicine is one of the benefits you have for joining the military, and the VA is a benefit that you EARNED by serving in the military. This is no different then you working at a job for 30 years and expecting a form of retirement after that length of service.
And for your information Social Security is not a socialist program either. In fact in the US Supreme Court decision Helvering v Davis, Social security was classified as a federal income tax. And in 1960 in yet another US Supreme Court decision called Flemming v Nestor, the court ruled that you have no right to receive social security nor any other program that comes from it (medicade/medicare) and that it can be stopped or reduced at any time for any reason.
please do make sure you know what you are talking about BEFORE you start making foolish and false statements such as you did.
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John A Anderson, CD, CIF Mons ON
As a Canuck, I feel that I can inject a neutral point of view here. There's a HUGE difference between socialism and Communism. What you Americans need to understand is that socialism is more about helping your neighbour, rather than taking all your money. Taxes would go up slightly, but the increased cost is spread across ALL taxpayers, rather than expecting you to pay all your medical bills. Communism attempted to make everyone equal, socialism attempts to help those who need it, but leave those who don't alone, as long as you pay your taxes.
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Dan Atatakai
Apparently, this gentleman does not realize that his own rabbi, Jesus, was a liberal. What a shame.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It doesn't require actually being a Christian to become an ordained Christian minister. It might just be a facade, to try to get more votes.
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Michael Mangold
Jesus was an anarchist, not a liberal. He believed and taught that love, compassion, and charity are up to individuals, not the state. As if "liberalism" was even a thing then!
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John D. Partin
Michael Mangold, "liberalism" was certainly more of a thing back then than "anarchism" was, since Jesus and other people have said that things could be improved in society without the necessity of the total overthrow of society. "I have not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it, and not one jot or tittle of it shall pass away until all be fulfilled" doesn't sound like anarchism very much or convincingly, but much more along the lines of liberalism and making more relevant , realistic,and updated some aspects of the law. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" and so liberalism, even when not called that or thought of as that, is still the same thing. There isn't very much or any love, compassion or charity in anarchism, in case you haven't ever read about or seen any demonstrations of anarchism or revolutions down through history or today. "Love one another as I have loved you" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" were (and are) very liberal ideas, compared to the conservative and right-wing "thinking" of the Pharisees back then and of their equivalents today.
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Lionheart
I might go one step further and say that Jesus was an egotistical fascist. ?
His mandate was, do as I tell you. If you don't do as I tell you, there will be Hell to pay. And in fact, if you don't do as I tell you and accept me as your fuhrer (savior) you are my enemy, so "bring those enemies of mine, who do not want me to reign over them and slay them before me" (Luke 19:27).
What amazes me is that people worship this guy. Then again, people worshipped Hitler thinking he was gods gift to mankind......unless you were Jewish of course. They were afraid not to have allegiance with him.
It took a world war for the German people to realize they were wrong worshiping Hitler's character, only to jump ship and start worshiping yet another narcissist who wanted everyone to love him, and they are now also afraid of him, because of the blackmail of going to Hell if they don't. Christians will tell you to...... Fear God!!!! And they worship it. How crazy is this?
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Daniel Gray
And how crazy is it that a person would come onto a religious board and then expect not to be called out when he tries to trash a religion. Using your logic I could also call you a facist as you are giving the impression that we must believe what you say.
Not too bright of a post by you now is it?
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Daniel Gray
And you have actual proof of this or is it just another myth ?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
My android poltergeist is also a functionioning illiterate.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
LOL, Carl is back!
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Michael Mangold
Rather "do not." Dang autofill!
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Michael Mangold
Of course it's ok. No more wrong than a politician becoming ordained. Just inform your faith. Do nite force it on us.
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Lea Weisenbach
Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion..Its called balance..Freedom of thought is very important...No one has the right to indoctrinate anyone..brain washing. I think we have to look at spiritualism not just through the mind of religion..But as spiritualism as our true nature...we are born with it..We all have faith and hope..We are taught to put it into someone else's ideas and this is were I find people falling into depression..suicide...Just my feelings.
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Michael Mangold
Well said. And what I believe, too.
The need to be spiritual IS genetic, which doesn't make it any less valuable. In fact, imagine that Lionheart here desired the elimination of everyone with a sex drive! If spirituality is genetic, that means it had some kind of adaptive value during our evolution. Just like sex.
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Lionheart
Ok, you hooked me and pulled me into your boat Michael ? I would not of course desire the elimination of a sex drive.
Perhaps it might be worth trying to understand/describe what spirituality really is. Does it mean the inherent ability to determine good and bad, right from wrong. I would rather say that we all have been born with a moral compass. All of these traits are of course very subjective.
I believe we are all born with no god in mind. We become educated/indoctrinated into deism by geography, and family beliefs.
Your thoughts?
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Michael Mangold
This is in reply to "the doctor" who obviously reads minds and who cannot tell the difference between the animate and the inanimate:
I make it a habit not to dignify mean and stupid with a reply, but in the name of love I will this time.
A fetus is not a "lump of tissue." It is a soul-in-progress and an elective abortion after the first trimester is murder. Why 13 weeks? Until then, it (we) are not alive. It's upon the completion of our neurological system (quickening) that life begins. This is basic medicine. We physician's pronounce death based on three conditions: no heart beat; no spontaneous respirations; and no brain stem activity as evidenced by a lack of a Trigeminal Reflex. So I'd life ends when these stop, life begins when they start.
You also seem to have flunked Biology 101. A fetus depends on their mother but is not a parasite or tumor. Both of the latter harm their hosts while sucking life from them. Does that sound like a fetus? And while dependency is critical, harm and even death of the mother aren't even part of the equation. In fact, they are detrimental to the fetus as well. Duh.
Professor Amy Moby writes (yes, a woman you skank): "Fetal cells can act as stem cells and develop into epithelial cells, specialized heart cells, liver cells and so forth. This shows that they are very dynamic and play a huge role in the maternal body. They can even migrate to the brain and differentiate into neurons,” In other words, a fetus benefits mom.
As far as the "anti-women" thing goes, really? You are God and know what I'm thinking? If I wanted that I would have stayed married.
So with this in mind, I am not against the morning after pill, contraception that prevents implantation of a fertilized egg, elective abortions in cases of proven rape, or those when the mother's health is at risk. In terms of abortions after 13 weeks, if a girl or woman doesn't know she is pregnant by then, perhaps it is better not to pass on the Stupid Gene.
Prove me wrong. And prove to me you can read minds.
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Alicia
While I don't believe religion and politics mix, I believe that AOC needs to go! She's not only dangerous, she's also an idiot/puppet, which makes her even more dangerous. I hope he wins!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
Actually she is very intelligent, strong and accomplished. Probably more than those who denigrate her out of their own ignorance and small minds. The one who is truly dangerous is the mentally ill man in our white house!
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Lionheart
I think you will find that the mentally ill man you refer to, Obama, (which is not a nice thing to say about anyone) is, fortunately, no longer in the White House, he was replaced with Donald Trump, the man finally getting our economy back on track, the man who has very impressive results with low unemployment, and also the man that is now shoring up our weak infrastructure at our borders.
As for you stating that AOC, the ex bar-tender, as being very intelligent, I have serious doubts about that. I bet you also think that her friend Nancy Pelosi is an excellent orator (when she's sober), and "deer-in-the-headlights" Adam Schiff is an excellent chairman of the "Intelligence Committee", an oxymoron if ever there was one.
But anyway, let's see how many agree with you at the next election. If Donald Trump gets back in will it be yet another 4 years of Democrats doing absolutely nothing but crying in their milk again struggling to get over it?
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The Doctor
You have obviously been severely affected by deep right wing indoctrination that has severely affected your ability to understand logic and reason.
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Lionheart
Thank you for your very uneducated reply. We each have our perspective on politics. 2020 will decide the outcome.
I think you will find that the country will be left in a far better state at the end of this current Presidency than it was left by the last one. Unless of course your indoctrination has convinced you otherwise, or don’t you like to know the country is better off financially, with lowest unemployment in 50 years, and our border defenses improved?
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Mark William Denton
Yes, and national debt has never been bigger!
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The Doctor
Oh you didnt catch the irony then in my post LH? I literally cut and pasted a response of yours from another thread and exchanged the word christian with deep right wing.
So what you are in fact saying is your own earlier reply to another was uneducated.
The unemployment rate is not really in any meaningful way improved. Nor am I some racist bigot afraid of immigrants. I still actually uphold the ideals inscribed on Lady Liberty.
BTW employment, work etc are as archaic as the old faiths. Automation when combined with an ever increasing population which has to happen when we live longer and are not going to go full blown eugenics to control population increase, means the only real answer is universal basic income. Because its an inevitable reality that there will never be enough work to go around.
I suspect it will be the likes of Putin that decide the outcome again. You'd have to be willfully ignorant ( which lets face it you fell for my trick of quoting you and changing a few words) to not understand that mans history, skill sets, and accept when he is in the room with other world leaders not only is he the most dangerously cunning, most skilled manipulator, but also could likely kill every other one of them in a one on many fight with his own bare hands. The guy is basically an evil James Bond that decided to take over his country and then of course THE WORLD!
And what are the borders defending us from exactly? Outside of pearl harbor which wasnt even on the mainland, the U.S. has never had a meaningful attack reach its shores. Oh 9/11 pff a few thousand people and a few buildings by a terrorist group composed mainly of militants from a country we are deeply allied with is closer to being an act of domestic terror then a foreign assault.
Its frankly hilarious you claim to be non christain and a wiccan when every single wiccan I know loathes Drumpf with a great passion.
The only good drumpf does is for his own offshore bank accounts.
Here is a single simple act by obama's administration that surpasses any and everything Drumpf has done. He ended the Ban on Stem cell research. That single act will have an ever increasing positive impact on the entire world that more then likely will still be hailed a thousand years from now.
There is literally nothing Drumpf could do to even begin to rival that.
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Joe Juknelis
"Denigration" cuts both ways, especially when you accuse a duly-elected President of being both "dangerous" and "mentally ill."
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
We also have an overabundance of mentally ill voters in this country.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I don't think there was such thing as a Democratic party when those faces were chiseled into Mt.Rushmore. However, being up there didn't help save George Washington's Wig party. Can you imagine men weariñg such wigs in this day and age? So, it probably didn't help Abraham Lincoln promote the Republican party, iether.
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John D. Partin
Carl Bernard Elfstrom, lawyers or barristers in English courts in this day and age wear such wigs, in answer to your question of if we can imagine men wearing such wigs in this day and age, not to mention the men in Drag Queen story hours or shows, who are wearing even more outlandish wigs than those Revolutionary times wigs and other items of apparel and causing so much uproar and protest among conservatives and right-wingers even in this day and age!! I can imagine anything that actually exists and a few things that don't. The Federalist Party might have been a foreunner of the Democratic Party, in some respects, and of the Republican Party in other respects before those two aspects of it diverged into the Democratic and Republican parties, and so there were de facto Democrats around back then, even if they weren't called by that name. "A rose by any other name" and all that! So, some of these actual Democrats could have ended up on Mt. Rushmore, too.For all that you or I anyone else knows, Lincoln might have done even better and been elected President by a larger margin if he had worn such a wig while he was in office---and, maybe, wouldn't have been assassinated, either, just out of deference to his wig! We'll never know.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW
The dangerous mentally ill president was not "duly elected" He lost by over 3 million votes. And yes, he is a malignant narcissist. Try reading the "Dangerous Case" and get enlightened.A big difference between an accusation and a stated fact.
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Lionheart
Welcome, Catherine, to this wonderful country of the United States of America and how it’s system of government works. I understand it’s very difficult for you to grasp and even accept, but that’s how this government works here Catherine. As a result of the system of government, approved by its people, our President was in fact duly elected. If that was not the case he would not currently hold that office now, but he does, and he is now “our” President, yours and mine, whether you approve if it or not.
Many didn’t enjoy Obama, arguably the worst President we have ever had, but we had to put up with it.
Have you ever wondered why there are no Democrats on Mount Rushmore? Me neither!
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Rev. John D. Partin
Lionheart, the people didn't elect the Donald to office or come up with the Electoral College that did "elect him to office", since both of those things were imposed upon and overruled the people, who were (and are!) considered too stupid to elect their own president. Back in 1789, they were thought to be or even were too illiterate to elect their own president and that assumption by the government has been screwing up elections ever since!! That isn't democracy, however, of one man, one vote, but is this obsolete organization's overruling millions of popular votes. Of course, many will say that America isn't a democracy, but is a representative Republic. In that case, why even bother with elections in the first place when the people's will and votes don't decide the final outcome? This explains many people's apathy about voting at all because "what difference does it make?". Also, about why there are no Democrats' heads up on Mount Rushmore, as I told you before, it's because Republicans and conservatives are the only people who are BLOCKHEADS enough to be put up there!!
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Daniel Gray
No sorry Partin, the Electoral College was placed in the Constitution to make sure that the larger states did not and could not overturn the will of the rest of the country. So you can think what you want but the founding fathers who are much smarter then you will ever be, are calling you a liar. And your childish insult about Mt Rushmore clearly shows that you dont have the intelligence enough to debate a sneeze let alone think your opinion is amounting to much.
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John D. Partin
Daniel E. Gray, the reason why the Electoral College was said to have been placed in the Constitution and the actual reason why it was placed in the Constitution are, quite obviously (that is, to anyone to whom they can be obvious, which leaves you and other conservatives out!!), two entirely different things, since the first reason was just a coverup of the real reason for it and it doesn't sound too good to tell people that you think that they are too stupid to elect their own President!! So, of course, "the Electoral College was founded in order that the larger states couldn't overturn the will of the rest of the country"---yeah, that's the ticket!! Are you really that naive or brand new to dealing with politicians or understanding their maneuvers and psychology?! Anyone can see through all of that, who is honestly looking at it and has sense enough to do so in the first place, which, again, leaves you and your ilk out in the cold!! As for my comment about Mt. Rushmore's being a "childish insult", you actually show yourself to be the fool and child here by stating that my disagreeing with you "shows that I don't have intelligence enough to debate a sneeze let alone think your opinion is amounting to much", especially since Republicans and conservatives and their beliefs and statements amount to even less than sneezes or other waste deposits and so shouldn't, as you have, bring up the subject of sneezes at all, as it hits too close to home to you!! Don't waste your time trying to fence with me! This is my game and forte and you don't have a chance!!
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but not only are you wrong but you are historically ignorant as well, which clearly shows what we should think about the claptrap you try and post.
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John D. Partin
Donald, "ignorant", according to actually ignorant people, such as yourself, isn't the same thing at all as actually ignorant, because you don't even know the truth about yourselves and so couldn't possibly know the truth about anyone or anything else!! If you really believe those early or any politicians' explanations of why they put anything into the Constitution or did anything else, I have some "prime Florida real estate" and a bridge that I'd like to interest you in buying!! They are just for such people as you and have SUCKER!! stamped all over them, waiting fot you!! Politicians have always been the most devious and dishonest of people, followed closely by priests and ministers, public relations and used car and other salesmen, and it is utterly ridiculous and stupid to accept any of their explanations at face value without looking into them much deeper for the real reason behind the facade!!
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John D. Partin
Donald, if the majority of the popular vote in any or all of the larger states overwhelms the vote in the rest of the country, so be it!! If the Donald or any other candidate can't win office through the popular vote alone, without being weaseled in by the Electoral College, he or she doesn't deserve to win at all!! One man, one vote, and not our current disgraceful situation of the Electoral College's overruling millions of popular votes! No other democracy in the world has millions of popular votes' being wiped out by their version of an electoral college. That doesn't even happen in 3rd world democracies, but the supposedly "most advanced country in the world and leading superpower" continues undermining its own national elections by this antiquated system of the Electoral College, which even the "inferior" 3rd world countries know better than to have!! That is insane!!
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John D. Partin
Correction: Daniel E. Gray, not Donald. You sound so much like him that it is easy to confuse you with him and give you his name.
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John D. Partin
Correction: Daniel E. Gray, not Donald. You sound so much like him that it is easy to confuse you with him and give you his name.
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Lionheart
The difference between the left and the right in US by political members.
Trump impeachment hearings go for 2 weeks with ZERO interruptions from protestors or people on the right.
Kavanaugh confirmation was interrupted 200+ times in ONE WEEK to block his confirmation
Tell me who is dividing our country?
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, the Donald's supporters and conservatives and right-wingers didn't interrupt the impeachment hearings against him because even they, in spite of themselves and their best efforts not to, see the truth that he needs to be impeached and that it is the right thing to do, wheras Kavanaugh's confirmation hearing was interrupted 200 + times because every sensible person (which leaves all Republicans, conservatives, and right-wingers out!) knows that a drunk sex abuser doesn't belong on the Supreme Court---and more couldn't get in there to interrupt that farce and rigged appointment to the Court or the number of interruptions of it would have been much higher!!
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, the Donald's supporters and conservatives and right-wingers didn't interrupt the impeachment hearings against him because even they, in spite of themselves and their best efforts not to, see the truth that he needs to be impeached and that it is the right thing to do, whereas Kavanaugh's confirmation hearing was interrupted 200 + times because every sensible person (which leaves all Republicans, conservatives, and right-wingers out!) knows that a drunk sex abuser doesn't belong on the Supreme Court---and more couldn't get in there to interrupt that farce and rigged appointment to the Court or the number of interruptions of it would have been much higher!!
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Daniel Gray
And partin I have never read a post so filled with anger and lies and myths then I have with yours. get over it child, your side lost the 2016 election and will be losing the 2020 election because of the simpleminded actions of three people.
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John D. Partin
Daniel E. Gray, as I told you already in my previous post to you, you are the child here!! We are supposed to be angry at corruption and dishonesty, such as is manifested in the Trumpelstiltskin "administration", just as Jesus was angry with the scribes and Pharisees and the moneychangers in the Temple. My statements are only "lies and myths" to conservative idiots (which is a redundancy!), such as yourself, since you prove yourselves incapable of distinguishing between lies and the truth and myths and facts by your insisting that the Donald is a "good President and honest man", despite his telling over 7,000 lies since he stole ("assumed") the Presidency, according to The Washington Post!! He didn't legitimately win the Presidency, but stole it through the long out-moded Electoral College, since Hillary won by 3 million popular votes!! He won't win the 2020 election because he is already due to be impeached!! As for the "simpleminded actions of three people", the end result of the Donald's impeachment will prove that it is Republicans and conservatives who are simple-minded!!
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John D. Partin
The Donald came right and said to all of your faces, while he was running for President, that he could shoot and kill a person right out on the street in front of everyone and still you idiots would vote for him, anyway!! That is how low an opinion he has of all of his supporters!!! "Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep!" is your de facto response to all of his statements!!! That is how gullible and unthinking all of you are about him!!
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The Doctor
Duly elected is not possible when one recognizes the very real intereferance from both those within and without the nation renders such impossible.
From gerrymandering on both sides to questionable actions on both sides the simple fact is that not since the revolution that gave birth to this nation have we been beset by those who wish to dominate and dictate rather then serve and represent, then ever before. I am no libertarian but the sad truth is that while there are a few half way decent bodies filling seats in the government, the vast majority are there out of personal self interest and driven by greed rather then a sense of duty.
However its still not comparable the right are primarily composed of evangelicals and poorly educated working class laborers. They literally spout nazi party hate speech like "liberals and intellectuals are the scum of the earth and need to be eradicated". There is not one case of a recognized member of ANTIFA for an example that has been connected to murder, meanwhile from the proud boys to the KKk to so many other white racist/nationalist militia groups too numerous to name have had members connected with acts of mass violence, domestic terror, and murder.
The Left for all its flaws is still not a party that represents nor espouses the killing of innocents nor has cultish followers driving cars into crowds, gang raping minority women to terrify them and their families, and pushing an agenda based on racial bigotry and basic fear mongering towards those they see as different which is fascist dictatorship 101.
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Michael Mangold
Uh, "The Left for all its flaws is still not a party that represents nor espouses the killing of innocents?" Thais EXACTLY what abortion is.
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Daniel Gray
And the left started the KKK, or have you not heard of William bedford forrest? And it seems that his grave is in a state park north of memphis and has been kept there by one political family...the Gore family. And the last time i looked they were Democrats. And lets not forget the one Grand Dragon of the KKK who was an unapologetic racist and yet was a Democrat in the House?
Seems your claim that the right are bigots and nazi's has just been proved completely a lie by history. Oh and did you forget the nazis were a group that demanded the state before all? Seems thats a main part of the Democrats plan.
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The Doctor
No mangold, abortion is not murder, any more then curing cancer is murder, or refusing to donate blood or organs is murder.
The fetus does not have more of a right to the use of its host body then a tumor, nor does a man suffering blood loss have right to demand those with like blood donate it to save him.
Our body, is first and foremost our body. By the logic of anti womens rights types like yourself, organ and blood donation should be mandatory and if my giving up a kidney to another who is terminal could save their life would make myself and every single other who could of donated one implicit in their death by not doing so.
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Robert Edward Szekely
I agree with the Doctor here. Equating abortion with murder is religious dogma, unsupported by scientific fact. By analogy, if we claim that destroying a blastocyst is murder, then so is getting a sunburn.
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Daniel Gray
And you are incorrect. medical science says that if you have a beating heart or they can find brainwave activity then you are classified as a living person. You can detect both of these at 4 weeks in a fetus. There are also laws in almost every state that are called fetal homicide which makes it a crime to cause the death of a fetus.
Seems the law does not agree with your mythical claim
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Daniel Gray
Really? then explain why over 70% of her own district wants her gone? And this came from the most recent poll in her district asking the voters how she was doing and the date of the poll was October of this year 2019. Seems her district does not agree with you
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Lionheart
"Do religion and politics mix?"
Religion and intelligent human beings don't mix....period, and never will.
Sub-cultures created a need for religion when they had a desire to fill in the gaps of their knowledge with a mythical god. This stems back to when those cultures had a need to believe that the Sun was a god due to their lack of understanding and intelligence. These cultures have improved slightly over thousands of years as science has improved our understanding. However, some of that sub-culture DNA has still managed to work its way through into present day, but I believe, and very fortunately for the rest of humanity, those genetic haplotypes are slowly dying out.
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Daniel Gray
Then what are you doing here posting your nonsense in a religious board? That says all that needs to be said about you and your opinions.
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michael quinn
The key word here is "intelligent". What do you mean by "intelligent human beings"? Educated? And who decides what or who is intelligent? We do! Us, in all of our sovereign might make those decisions. So what you are saying about religions is absolutely correct. They are all created by different cultures of mankind as a way to God. Unfortunately they are all wrong. Mankind cannot make a way to God. If You were truly intelligent you would study your bible. In doing so you would come to know that one of Jesus's priorities was to abolish religion. Religion is man striving to reach God. Jesus said I am the way,the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father, but by me. What this means is that if one wants to get to God (The Father) he/she must go through the person of Jesus to get there. This makes all of mankind religion void. To go through the person of Jesus is not Religion but rather a relationship. So, What do you need to do? Wise up! Wisdom far and away is better than intelligence. Proverbs 1:7 says "for all wisdom begins with the fear of the Lord." If you don't fear the lord you are not wise. You are a fool. And your intelligence is nothing but artificial. God mixes with everything. I know that you and a lot of others do not believe this. But realize that He is not necessarily concerned about our/your physical lives but rather our eternal lives.
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Lionheart
Yes it is, the key word here is “intelligent”, so thank you for proving my point. If you were truly intelligent you wouldn’t need to study the Bible, a book of tales and myth, but if you did, you would quickly learn, as I did, that it is if course a load if rubbish, led by a very stupid jealous mythical deity the reveled in infanticide, and his genocide. He also condoned slavery, and stoning people to death.
So what do we need to do? We need to wise up and realize that true wisdom is not in tales and myth, but in logic and reason. Of course he’s not concerned about our physical lives. The flood proved that, and his love of stoning people to death.
As for your egotistical Jesus saying he is the way, the truth, and the life, that seems to only apply if you do as you are told. He’s a “Be a good boy and follow me” type of guy, and if you don’t....look out....there’s trouble. Depicted very nicely in Luke 12:47 and Luke 19:27 where he’s happy for you to be beaten or slayed for not following him.
Don’t forget that your egotistical Jesus said “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than they love me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me”. Well thank goodness! I’m glad I’m rid of him. If you want him, you can have him. As for me, I’ll carry on loving my family more than I love him. That’s if he ever really existed of course.
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michael quinn
Beaten with many stripes or killed is by their own will. like i said Wisdom Trumps intelligence. It's not my will to gain the whole world and yet lose my eternal life. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. In the words of Gavin Newsom "Whether you like it or not" It's going to happen. Ask yourself this question. If i'm rid of him Why do i get so fired up at posts about him or just even the mention of his name? Why does He consume my thoughts and emotions? That is just my observation. You are a smart guy go figure
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Lionheart
If you honestly believe they were beaten with many stripes, or killed, because it was their fault that they chose not to follow someone professing to be a prophet of a god, your wisdom is seriously lacking, it smacks of fascism. Hitler had the same philosophy, you either followed him, or you died. If your Jesus was truly a loving person he would have let them go their own way, with their own beliefs, and just loved them.
Matthew 10: 35 For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.....
Every knee will not bow to him, because he was wrong, he didn’t count on me.
Every tongue will not confess he is Lord, because I won’t. I will in fact say that your Jesus is no more a Lord than I am.
I’ll buy him a beer though if ever I see him, that would be after I’ve punched him on the nose for being such an egotistical idiot. I still love my mother, father, and children more than him. He’ll just have to accept that and suck it up.
And the reason I get fired up about it on my crusade for logic and reason is because he’s conned so many people into his way of thinking, which has caused so much trauma to people’s lives throughout history, and I’m determined to prove to others the charlatan he is.
May true love and light, logic and reason, and freedom of thought, become part of your life.
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DrF350
boy it's not often I get hit with such an instant pang of distrust, but looking at that guy's picture sure did it for me.
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Carrie
He reminds me of Jordan and Nunes.....smarmy, smug, not to bright, and a willing pawn of the idiocracy.
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Terrence
“too”
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Can you see him wearing a sombrero and singing "I am the Frito bandido." Ole !
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Janet Green
They don't mix because there are too many divisions and not enough acceptance (inclusion). The thing about religions is that everyone thinks that their way is the right way and that makes others wrong. Governments should never be run by religion and allow each individual to believe as they do without judging or excluding anyone.
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Robert Edward Szekely
Concur.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but the US Government has a thing called a law that says you CANNOT use a persons religion against them if they are running for or being appointed to a position.
So exactly how are you going to hold to your statement when US law says you are wrong?
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Everyone should watch 'Trump Card'!! VERY interesting but sadistically true!! Boggles my mind as to HOW some just DON'T see the truth!! I'm praying hard to correct their minds eye on these serious matters. I'm scared y'all!! I have to say....we need to be able to fight for our individual minds!! Our individual thoughts. We HAVE to come together despite all of our differences. THIS is time for faith. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!💕