A pastor in Amarillo, Texas left a community in outrage after dressing up as the Grinch outside an elementary school and holding a sign which read “Santa is Fake, Jesus is Real.”
The Grinch, who goes by Pastor David Grisham when he’s not stealing Christmas, says he’s not sorry… but he understands why parents are mad at him.
"They’re upset because they’re prideful and don’t want to admit that lying to their child is wrong in spite of what God’s word says. They’re more concerned with the traditions of men rather than the truth."
Is Santa Sacrilegious?
Parents accused Grisham of ruining the ‘magic’ of Christmas for local kids (and one even accosted him on the street).
However, Grisham says that the Santa Claus story is not only a sin, it also obscures the true meaning of Christmas. "I’m not concerned about the 'magic' of Christmas but the MIRACLE of Christmas in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ," he retorted.
It’s a surprisingly common point of view in certain faith circles, so we decided to explore this phenomenon further.
Why exactly are some people of faith so opposed to the idea of Santa Claus?
The Sin of Telling Lies
The Christian argument against Santa Claus is robust, but perhaps the biggest aspect is the concern about misleading children.
Some churchgoers argue that telling children Santa Claus is real amounts to far more than a white lie.
Making the holiday season more magical for the little ones, they argue, is far outweighed by a greater truth: that spinning the story of Santa is a sin which makes a mockery of God.
Which begs the question: is lying for a “good” reason morally and biblically justifiable, even if the lie itself is not malicious?
Santa Claus's critics point out that the Bible is full of passages making clear that deception is a sin (Exodus 20:16, Psalm 101:7, Ephesians 4:25, 1 Peter 2:1–3, just to start).
As the argument goes, you wouldn’t make outlandish claims to an adult, so why is it okay to tell them to a child?
(Of course, there are those who still do believe in Santa – or in the power of his story, anyway – who might challenge the whole premise of that question).
Stealing Christmas Glory
Another common criticism: that telling children about Santa Claus robs Christ of His glory. For many Christian families, Santa becomes the star of the holidays, when it should be Jesus.
Tons of holiday activities involve Santa: from visits to the mall to sit on his lap, to leaving cookies out for him on Christmas Eve, to writing letters to him asking for gifts.
Critics argue that as a result, Santa Claus can end up taking center stage over Jesus, diluting the true religious meaning of the holiday.
Related: The Great Christmas Standoff: Jesus vs. Santa
Some people even assert that telling children about Santa could lead to them rejecting Jesus down the road.
Jesus, they say, could easily get lumped in with fictional characters like Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny, causing theological confusion.
You Better Watch Out, You Better Not Lie
Of course, many parents out there reading the above arguments might find them a little Draconian.
While Christmas remains an incredibly important religious holiday, it's no longer solely religious; it has also been adopted as a secular holiday over time.
Advocates for classic Christmas traditions insist that religious folks are making mountains out of molehills. They ask: at the end of the day, is Santa really pushing Jesus out of the spotlight?
The answer likely depends on how you view the reason for the season. If it’s purely to give glory to God, then you might agree that Santa is a no-go.
But if family and community are also worth celebrating during the holidays, then you might think that making the holidays a little more magical is worth a little white lie.
What do you think? Can Santa and Jesus coexist?
161 comments
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Marilyn
This pastor is out of line. If he wants to do that in his own church that's ok. It's despicable that he's infringing on other people's right to allow their children the fun and imagination of Santa. I volunteer in a parochial school and we have santa as part of the other religious icons in our school.
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Theresa C. Marquess
It isn't up to the church to dictate to children whether to believe in Santa Claus. When I was of the age when I no longer accepted the illusion of Santa Claus being 'real' my Mother didn't want me to spoil it for my younger sister, so she told me that my Father, through God's grace, was able to provide gifts for us. My Father was our Santa Claus. I never did spoil it for my sister, nor did I spoil the beautiful illusion for my children.
As they got to the age when there questioned the validity of Santa Claus, I chose to tell them that their own Father was Santa Claus. My children are now grown and have passed this explanation down to their own children.
"Yes,Virginia, there is a Santa Claus!"
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Rev. MichaelRS
Well, when you say it's not up to THE church, which church are we talking about.
I would say at this time of year it is the obligation of any church, or at least any church that call themselves Christians of any sort, to remind one and all what Christmas is REALLY supposed to be all about.
When you ask little kids whose birthday is celebrated on Christmas/December 25th, the answer should not be Santa Claus.
But then again you could have the whole argument that it shouldn't really be celebrated anyway because there are those that say only God can make holy days and and the only holy days He ever designated where are listed in what the Christians call the Old Testament.
And then you can go on how December 25th was actually chosen to celebrate Jesus' birthday to Christianity more appealing to the pagans who would celebrate the winter solstice around that time. Celebrations which included decorating the home with Evergreens of sorts.
And then there's the problem of Jesus being born in Bethlehem because Mary and Joseph had to travel there for the census, but people were not mandated to travel in the winter for that. So it's doubtful that he was born anytime between late fall and early spring.
So there's all kinds of problems with December 25th being established as Jesus's actual birthday. HOWEVER , it is established as that and, again, not Santa's birthday.
Otherwise, for the non-religious or non-christians who celebrate it, we have to come up with other reasons why we engage in the symbolic giving of gifts on Christmas... other than it represents the gifts the wise men brought to Jesus as a baby.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
Christmas is based on several Pagan, mid-winter festivals including Yule and the Saturnalia. As you recognize, the date was choosen by early Christians to hijack the Pagan festivals.
I celebrate Isaac Newton's birthday on 25th December.
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Theresa C. Marquess
Rev. Mike, I liked your reply! Thank you!
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Danny D. Maynard
It is highly unlikely that Santa Claus has December 25th as his birthday!
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Theresa C. Marquess
Hi Danny, I do agree with you that it is highly unlikely that Santa Claus has a December 25th birthday or any birthday at all.
We do accept December 25th as Jesus' birthday because it had never been documented as what His birthday was. In reality, the night sky as described, would make him a Leo.
Christians wish to celebrate Jesus, so December 25th is as good a time as any. It is all in what your own family traditions are whether you celebrate Him or not.
Buona Saturnalia!
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Theresa C. Marquess
MichaelIRS, Did you even read what I wrote, or did you just decide to spout off on your tangent?
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Rev. MichaelRS
I read everything. Although I don't get a notification that there's a comment right at the very moment there's a comment so. It might be days later. Beat me why.
Anyway, of those that I read some I think are rhetorical others, so no reply necessary, while others I I don't even worthy of a reply or I've grown too bored with a subject and I just move on.
Not casting any shade on you "cuz I really don't remember what I thought about yours. But now, overall, I've entered the bored phase.
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Rev. MichaelRS
While I disagree with his tactics the man is on a public sidewalk exercising his 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I'm not sure where it is in the Constitution that one has the RIGHT to believe in Santa Claus.
Besides parents tell their kids little white lies all the time. For example, when I was a kid and it would rain my mother told me that those it was the tears of the Angels. Because when they looked down here and saw all the sin that was going on on Earth it made them so sad that they cried.
It was until I grew up and became an adult that I realized it was actually God taking a leak.
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Rev Mark D
🙂 Don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining!
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Amber Fry
How does anyone have freedom of speech if they don't have freedom of thought and belief? Isn't that what free speech is? Sharing of one's ideals and beliefs in the first place?
Freedom of speech doesn't give people the right to enforce their beliefs and ideals onto children, ever. Life and time eventually gets them past the belief. There is no reason to force it by some angry jerk in an ugly costume terrifying it out of them.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Yes, freedom of speech is the freedom to share one's thoughts and ideas.
Soooo, that Pastor also has freedom of speech in a "traditional public forum", most notably public sidewalks, to share his beliefs and ideas. Hence the right of the stereotypical "street preachers" to do their thing.
What you are doing is conflating sharing ideas or beliefs that you do NOT agree with with forcing them on others, rather than just exposing others to them.
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Russel A. Kester
Michael, I would agree if the 'othere' of which you speak were adults, but these were children. So, no you can't yell fire in a crowded theater and you shouldn't broach your beliefs or truths to someone else's child. It's highly inappropriate, ignorant, and unjustifiable. That idiot should be crucified.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
The right to believe in Santa is the same as the right to believe in any other God. I bet the Christians would soon object in someone stood outside a school with a placard saying "God is fake; Santa is real."
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Rev. MichaelRS
The only problem with that is that no one has ever held Santa up to be any kind god or divine being and argued it's any kind of religion under the 1st Amendment to believe in him.
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James Mounts
Aren't saints divine? Saint Nicklaus; San T Klaus; Santa Claus,
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Rev. MichaelRS
No. Despite corrupt men in the Catholic Church having bastardized the concept of Saints for many centuries, to include making Idols of them, they are not Divine.
Excluding for the moment the concept of the Holy Spirit as the Divine force of God, there are only two Divine beings in the judeo-christian faith. God the father and God the son.
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James Mounts
What about God The Holy Ghost? Or, are you too old to believe in Ghosts?
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Heyyyyyyy! He isn't called St. Nick for nothing.
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Rev Mark D
You mean "Old Nick?" Wasn't that a reference to the devil? Clever.
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Rev “D”
:)))))
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Danny D. Maynard
Are you sure it is not Santa who is leaking?
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Rev. MichaelRS
Could be. Or the ones pulling the sled.
They don't call them "rain"-deer for nothing you know.
LOL
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Theresa C. Marquess
MichaelIRS, Have you ever read the Constitution? The Constitution neither says that we have the right, nor does it say that we do not have the right to believe in Santa Claus. We are a free-thinking people. Our personal belief system is not to be questioned. Santa Claus, not to be mistaken for St. Nicholas, is not worshipped, nor do we celebrate a birthday for him.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Teresa - WHO, under the Constitution, is not to question our personal belief system?
The government. There's nothing in the Constitution that does not allow the people to question each other's personal belief system or to point out errors in it.
As a matter of fact it's not even 100% hands off for the government. Consider the statement:
"Congress shall made no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."
But let's say you have a religion where one of the rituals as human sacrifice. And I'm not even talking about kidnapping and murder. I'm talking about where everybody is sane and sober and an enthusiastic participant...including the sacrifice. So are they all good to go?
Of course not. There are laws against it and those laws are constitutional, but how can they be when the Constitution says what it says about freedom of religion.
Here's a couple that are even better and more current; Can people have more than one lawful spouse in the United States if their religion says it is permissible, or can a man marry a girl when she becomes a "woman", according to their faith, at 13?
So yeah there are circumstances in which the government can question and interfere with people's faith.
But people are free question and "call out" other people's faith between themselves at will.
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Alexander Arends
It all depends on the degree of secularism adopted by the denomination. Believing in Santa Clause as a child does no harm. Pointing out to children that Santa is not real is not the job of a pastor.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
That pastor is unreal! Ruining a holiday for little kids is definitely the act of a psycho.
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Russel A. Kester
Good grief. From some of the comments I've read here, I meant to vomit. When it comes to children, let them have their Santa, reindeer, and Christmas trees. Let them be children and enjoy their magical thinking and dreams. It's not a time for adult grinches to wax philosophical and destroy one of the joys of childhood in our times. The pastor is an unqualified idiot and so is anyone who would try to pardon or explain away his actions.
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Reverend Bob
I wonder how that Pastor-Grinch dude would feel if someone dressed up in a devil suit with a sign saying, Jesus is fake, Santa is real” while loitering around the public sidewalk in front of his church? I guess zealots just don’t do “nice” anymore. What ever happened to Love Thy Neighbor?
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Danny D. Maynard
I love irony for hypocrites! Thank you!
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Rev “D”
Wow this Christian’s hypocrisy is funny. Poor Mr. Grisham failing to see how so many lies created the very book he quotes from. Tsk tsk. Just as amusing is comment about if someone’s kid saw sign, lawsuit time. Threatening to sue over a non vulgar, non graphic sign over an individual’s viewpoint over two non-existent things is pure comedy in USA. BTW: telling anyone that a deity that by creating people had to correct it by creating a junior deity to walk among those people. To then have junior deity later be killed by same people to absolve those same people is even funnier nonsense. No wonder christians want to control everything from before birth to all aspects of living a life, its only way to keep the flock brainwashed. Happy Living, may Nature’s magic keep your hearth & home well, as it has been since before the birth of man’s greatest lies.
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Danny D. Maynard
As are all religions, Christianity is a complete mythology, with all the deities, and the semi-deities, and the messengers, and the evil ones and forces, and all the other similar hierarchies that are used in all the other mythologies that existed in 325 CE when a new and all encompassing mythology was created by Roman Emperor Constantine, who also imposed it as the one acceptable and lawful religion of the entire Roman Empire!
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James Mounts
If the good pastor wants to hold up that sign in his church, no problem. but getting between parents and their children uninvited is thin ice. Attendance at his service is tacit approval, but attending school is not. If my child saw that sign it would be law suit time.
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Rev Mark D
James, since you can't make a frivolous motion, what's the basis of your lawsuit?
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James Mounts
That would depend on how much trauma my child suffered as a result. I figure about a million per tear drop.
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Rev Mark D
Sounds about right.
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Edward Hamilton Calhoun
Im a Secular Buddhist and there fore an Agnostic. The Pastor would like to have me with a sign "Santa is the spirt of Xmas - Jesus is mostly myth and fiction. However it is my strong belief - I do have a few good (liberal) Christian friends however i most of all like folk who ID with the Unitarian Church. True Buddhism and Taoism do not have any ANY deity - why are they in general so peaceful I am a white USMC veteran in my 80s - - way more peaceful since I became a serious Buddhist at the age of 52
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Rev Mark D
Calhoun: I'm glad you said "serious" Buddhist, because there have been those Buddhists who kill Hindi and Muslims in the name of Buddhism.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Edward stated ‘ True Buddhism and Taoism do not have any ANY deity - why are they in general so peaceful’. This leads me to believe that perhaps he is referring to Hinayana Buddhism. ‘Hinayana’ is the term given to that sect of Buddhism by the newly formed Mayahana Buddhism, the latter being the self-termed ‘Greater Vehicle’ and the Hinayana being the name they gave to the older version of Buddhism, meaning the ‘Lesser/Inferior Vehicle’. Much like the Jesus worshippers coming out with the New and labeling the original the Old. Hinayana is a negative term and I think the actual term is Nikaya.
Point being, the oldest version of Buddhism doesn’t worship idols and viewed Buddha as just a man. I’ve read about the Buddhist massacres but don’t remember details. It would not surprise me at all to find out the Mayahana group was involved. If the Nikaya were involved I’d wager they weren’t the aggressor.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
There's always somebody who just can't wait to kill another somebody over a difference in belief. Barf.
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Rev Mark D
Kind of depends on the belief. Have a read through the Quran sometimes, you'd think it was Hitler on steroids.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Another Christin pastor doing something disgusting which gets people to hate Christians. After seeing this does it make you want to become a Christian? Or hate them even more?
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Rev “D”
Neither hate nor want to be Christian but definitely appreciate great comedy provided with their failure to see the log in their own eye, hypocrisy of how it is their god’s plan, till it isn't. The list goes on and on.
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Rev Mark D
D: the biggest lie of all is the promise of an everlasting afterlife with mansions and sitting by Christ side ruling over the universe, the ultimate children's fantasy cartoon story... And this guy Grisham sees no irony?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
I don’t hate xtians. Feel sorry for them at times. But they do generally annoy me simply because they’re irrational to the point of being delusional.
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Danny D. Maynard
Having lived it from the inside for three or four decades, I must agree with your astute summation.
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Joy
Here we go...pushing agendas on the public for "Christianity".
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
This is someone that believes there’s a Mr. Magic that snapped his fingers for seven days and brought the entire universe and creation and made all life forms. The same Mr. Magic then gave birth to himself as his own son (through spiritual rape of a teenage virgin without even so much as a howdy-do) so that he could sacrifice himself to himself to thus allow himself to forgive the creatures that he created.
And this same someone decides to tell a child that Santa is fake?
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James Mounts
6 days! He snapped his fingers for 6 days, and then on the 7th (I guess His fingers ached) He rested.
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Clay Serenbetz
I believe in Santa Claus, but Jesus's existence is dubious. These days, followers of Jesus spread hate and try to destroy the separation of Church and State. Whereas Santa Claus has never spread hate or tried to proselytize any particular religion at the expense of human rights. Read the editorial regarding Santa Claus in the New York Sun originally published September 21, 1897. I don't need to expand further on the Sun's editorial.
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Colleen McAllister
I see the vitriol is still strong with these posts. We were asked a simple question which needs only a simple answer.
It does no harm for children to be told of Santa. As they grow older they will figure out the truth on their own and then can learn where these stories come from. As to Santa usurping Jesus, I was told about Jesus as a tiny babe and had no trouble accepting that He is the reason for Christmas and all else is window dressing.
This pastor seems to be an idiot who wants to steal the joy from children. Pity.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
I was told about Jesus and God as a child but, as I got older I learned the truth - they're just myths created to oppress the people.
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Alisa Geraldine Ranger
I agree. Simple answers are needed: My simple answer: Teach children the true store of how St. Nick came to be. Along with the concept. Also, teach children about Jesus & faith from the beginning. Let the children decide from there.
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Rev Mark D
The history of the real Saint Nicholas is a model to be used, emulated, and cherished. What's the problem? Plus he was real and so are all the positive things said about him. What exactly is the problem?
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Catherine
@ServantOfJudgement
"I haven't found a single thing in the Bible that's hard to believe, not one."
That is a loaded statement ^ . ^ There is all manner of nonsense, at least in the KJV. Who knows what was added or omitted out after the rewriting?
If seeing is believing, there are numerous outrageous biblical writings. Set aside physically seeing and if reduced to the outrageous expressed as metaphors, is an easier pill to swallow.
And that only if we assume God is almighty, sees and knows everything, is ubiquitous, forgiving, kind, and loving, but sadly also has violent pyschopathic bippolar swings.
Repeating myself... stopping before it turns into a pointless rant :)
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
It's indicative of SoJ's gullibility.
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Robert E. Polston
Hello Everyone!
Peace to you during this time that we celebrate so much possibility for peace and unity. I like to think it is possible that someday soon we will all stop making the claim that OUR FACTS are the only facts.
Let's start with good old Santa Clause as we are fast approaching his feast day on the calendar of the Roman Catholic Church on December 6th in which his life is celebrated. "SinterKlaas" was a 4th century Greek Bishop from modern day Turkey who has had several miracles’ attributed to him.
While the SinterKlaas story is credited with the origin of the Jolly Old Elf, it is not the only celebration of this kindly spirit of Christmas. There are many countries that have some version of the spirit of giving and love associated with St. Nicholas and, mostly associated with children and giving at Christmas.
The good news is that how many news editors will help spread this sad, sick, un-saintly story about a real-life Grinch? Not too many news companies want angry parents or crying children to be the story next to their Christmas sales adds; so cheer up, the hateful mean people usually loose.
Best Wishes to you all for a Happy Holiday no matter what you celebrate. Bob Polston
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Danny D. Maynard
I understand your comment to read, in a nutshell, that Santa Claus is based on a real person, and Jesus is not!
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Nicholas J Page
Hey Pastor keep your mouth shut who is real and who isnt Is it your god given right to upset children about Santa being fake .Go back to what ever rock you call home and watch Miracle on 34th Street with Lord Attenborough as Kris Kringle in the lead roll
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
I wonder if pastor Grinch understands the concept of Parental Rights? Doesn’t seem so because he took that away from the parents whose children saw him acting like a donkey.
It is his right to tell his message to his own children but not to tell it to anyone else’s children.
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Rev Mark D
Just what does the article's author mean, "white" lie?
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Asa William Sprague, II
The article described a "white" lie as ".. lying for a “good” reason if the lie itself is not malicious."
A couple common examples: telling someone there is no birthday party for them when there actually is; telling your pastor you enjoyed their sermon when you actually didn't; telling your wife her favorite dress does not make her look fat when it astually does.
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Rev Mark D
Yeah but I was also just wondering what is a black lie?
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Asa William Sprague, II
I'm glad you asked. It led me to a discovery. Apparently there are four colors of lies
White - provides some benefit to someone else Black - told solely to benefit oneself Gray - A mix of benefiting someone else and benefiting oneself Red - told specifically to hurt someone (malicious intent)
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Steven Ferrell
This pastor is totally over the edge and gives Christians a bad name.
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Lionheart
Christians have a good name? How did you determine that, Sir Steven?
🦁❤️
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Michael D Jones
Santa, right or wrong, serves a purpose. It should be up to the parents to either support Santa or not. As a practicing Santa, I share the reason for the season everywhere Santa Goes. Whether at a Hospital or day care, I share that Jesus is the Reason for the Season and Santa can be a part of it. Yes, Santa High jacked for secular reasons but the basic premise is still there. I have held a child in my arms and prayed with them as they were not, due to cancer, going to make it to Christmas. As a Pastor for 40 years and a Paramedic for 43, I have dealt with death and anything you do to comfort someone helps. This young person asked if I knew Jesus, I told them yes I do and talk with him daily. His answer was " Jesus told me I would be with him today and my grandma is waiting to lead me there. Would you pray with me?" Tell me how being Santa hurt this young person.
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Theresa C. Marquess
Thank you for writing such an inspirational piece, Michael D. Jones. After reading so many, yours was refreshing.
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Rev Mark D
Well said Jones!
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Carolyn S. Madera
wow, unbelievable.
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Frankie B. May
I think this pastor should not be in front of an elementary school while dressed as the grinch and carrying that sign. Parents can tell their children of the real Santa Claus and the story of Jesus' birth. The children need this magical time of year because the day after Christmas the world seems to lose its magic for the year.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
I never knew that the Grinch was a Christian! I'm a little too old for Dr. Seuss so missed that.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Oh, and if you celebrate all 12 days of Christmas plus the Feast of the Magi. the magic can last for almost 2 weeks.
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John Robert Helms
The preacher is way out of line!
The celebration of Christmas on December 25 has both Christian and pagan origins intertwined over centuries.
Christian tradition marks December 25 as the birthdate of Jesus Christ, although the exact date of his birth is not specified in the Bible. The selection of December 25 for Christmas likely arose from the early Church's efforts to Christianize pagan celebrations already occurring around that time.
Pagan festivities, particularly the Roman festival of Saturnalia, took place around the winter solstice, honoring Saturn, the god of agriculture, and celebrating the winter harvest. Saturnalia was a time of feasting, gift-giving, and merriment, coinciding with the shortest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere.
Early Christians sought to redirect these pagan celebrations towards Christian beliefs. They co-opted the timing and some customs of Saturnalia to commemorate the birth of Jesus, attempting to replace the pagan festivities with a Christian observance. By adopting December 25, Christianity repurposed the existing cultural practices of feasting and merriment to honor the birth of Christ.
Over time, Christmas became a significant Christian holiday, incorporating elements from various cultures and traditions while retaining its primary focus on the birth of Jesus Christ. Today, it represents a blend of Christian religious observance and cultural customs from diverse historical influences.
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Rev Ned
Let’s all sing the hymn, 🎼 Jesus loves me but He can’t stand you.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Well put.
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Santa Mike
I am a Santa.....I call myself the Ambassador of the Spirit of Christmas. The spirit of love, kindness, joy, etc. When a child is old enough to understand that I am just a silly man in a red suit, we explain to them that now they are old enough to understand the difference that they too are now part of that Spirit....they are now a Santa. It is on them to further the joy and happiness by doing things that bring joy to people. Could be as simple as opening a door for someone....or taking the trash out for your parents without asking. I can be a Santa to all....not to just Christians with this belief. I welcome all, Christian, Muslim, non-religious, straight, gay, trans, white, black, heck....orange with pink poka dots.....it doesn't matter.....you come to Santa to find a moment of joy....of happiness in seeing and being the best of what humanity can offer. For all to soon, the season of light passes back into darkness and old rivalries and hatreds come back into play...but for a short time every year....we all try and strive to be the best version of ourselves we can be. This particular "Pastor" in this article just lives in that darkness at all times....sadly.
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Theresa C. Marquess
Good for you, Santa Mike! I am 80 years old and still believe in Santa Claus. Not the man, so much as the spirit of Christmas. It matters not who we are or what belief system we relate to, but how we treat others. Kindness, generosity, and love of our fellow man is where it is at. We can do that 365 days a year. The gift of a smile to a stranger can mean so much to the giver and receiver alike.
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Kristianne Schultz
My parents said, "Santa is the Spirit of giving," and it is what I continue to believe to this day.
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Russell Hjelm
So, he's dressed up in a Grinch costume talking about how Santa isn't real?
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Rev Mark D
Yeah, ironic ain't it?
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John Alex Paxson
It's all in the beliefs. I believe in Jesus and Santa...and I'm 67 ... heh ... heh ... try that on for size Murgatroyd.
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Danny D. Maynard
Santa can be seen everywhere. Jesus nowhere!
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Ravi R Maharaj
I believe Jesus is Santa Claus so children will have something to believe in..
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Tecla Caryl Loup
What a load of crap. Jesus didn't comment on Xmas, nor was he allegedly born at the winter solstice anyway. Christians should be concentrating on Easter, which is the real miracle, the rising from the dead and living forever in paradise. But no-o-o-o-o. We have to make a fuss about an allegedly virgin birth (in a religion where women are just vessels, not particularly respected after they lose said virginity) and connect it to a pre-Christian holiday marking seasonal changes in the northern hemisphere. And then making more of a fuss over this being the birth time of the founder of Christianity. And then ruining the fun for (more or less privileged) little kids, for whom Xmas is magic anyway. Why not stick with Easter as the big deal? It's the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox. Yes, pagan tradition also but conforms more with the Passion and Resurrection that Christian believers hold dear.
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Janis Carol Sommers
Why does the pastor dress as the Grinch, another fabrication? Then there is the Karacken, and the 12 Bad Boys and tons of cultural myths that entertain children and adults and build spirit and joy in the time of darkness (Winter light). He should be protesting at shopping malls and all the tv shows that put Santa in front of the birth of Christ and leave young children and their fantasic imaginations alone.
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Janis Carol Sommers
I meant to write Krampus, not Kracken... but, then there is the Kracken. I know that not all passengers on the Mayflower were Christian, that no one celebrated anything, the Mayflower Compact is modeled after the Magna Carta and is a business agreement to work together to stay alive and pay back the investors and the King/Queen that gave them the charter and financed the trip. There is no pronounced Christianity in it and there is mention of GOD, but it is not a promise to be Christian, nor is the Declaration of Independence a promise of a Nation of Christians. Again, it is GOD not Jesus Christ that is named. The Christian and Jesus verbiage that is equated with the Puritans and Pilgrims is from personal diaries kept. Puritans were the Bible Beaters, witch hunters, punishers, and government self elected and endorsed by England's Church. The rest of the Pilgrims were Quaker and non believers who signed on as merchant explorers when the Puritans did not have enough of their spearatist flock to pay for the ships to set sail. We have always been a Nation of Spiritualist, Religions and Capitalism. Santa gets to live here as much as Jesus Christ. For many of us GOD is the Spirit we live by.
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Rev. Rory
Jesus is the Son of God if you are a Christian. Santa Claus is a fun, invented character that is not a religious icon. It is not "evil" to believe or not believe in either one. The pastor is free to tell his own congregation to remember to celebrate the religious meaning (to them) of the holiday and to celebrate the capitalist version separately. For all others, the pastor and his beliefs regarding Santa mean nothing. There is no sense in having an argument about it. He should preach to his flock and leave everyone else alone and not be angry. I'm sad when I see that people find only anger in their religion and fail to discover love, hope and charity. "We are all children of the same universe."
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Donald E Boyce II
Santa is the Saint Nicholas the saint of goodness, like Jesus of knowledge and goodness. Krampus is like that of the saint of evil, you could say he is like Satan the opposition the opposer you could say devil. So Jesus and the Devil, Santa and Krampus who's to say the difference. Although I wouldn't use a sign in a Grench suit personally.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
It's downright cruel to do that to little kids. I don't care what people believe, you don't just go around telling kids Santa isn't real. Santa is a representation of Saint Nicholas of Myra, who was known for his generosity. There's no harm in believing in a benevolent figure who brings gifts to people and some people tell their older kids that while Santa himself isn't an actual person, the spirit of Santa is in everyone and we use it to give each other gifts (some also incorporate the story of Saint Nicholas into it). It's a harmless legend we tell kids about that makes them excited about presents and later on makes them excited about giving presents because they remember the excitement of receiving gifts and want to pass that on. Making kids upset and ruining that spirit in them is just downright un-Christian behavior.
It's also kind of creepy to hang around outside an elementary school. Someone check his electronic devices.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Good idea about checking devices. Creepy guy.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Reposted by me (as one of 220K who shared) from a post on Facebook:
ATTENTION TO ALL PARENTS WHO NEED TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT SANTA 🎅
Son: "Dad, I think I'm old enough now. Is there a Santa Claus?." Dad: "Ok, I agree that your old enough. But before I tell you, I have a question for you. You see, the “truth” is a dangerous gift. Once you know something, you can't unknow it. Once you know the truth about Santa Claus, you will never again understand and relate to him as you do now. So my question is: Are you sure you want to know?" Brief pause... Son: "Yes, I want to know"
Dad: "Ok, I'll tell you: Yes there is a Santa Claus" Son: "Really?" Dad: Yes, really, but he's not an old man with a beard in a red suit. That's just what we tell kids. You see, kids are too young to understand the true nature of Santa Claus, so we explain it to them in a way that they can understand. The truth about Santa Claus is that he's not a person at all; he's an idea. Think of all those presents Santa gave you over the years. I actually bought those myself. I watched you open them. And did it bother me that you didn't thank me? Of course not! In fact it gave me great pleasure.
You see, Santa Claus is THE IDEA OF GIVING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING, without thought of thanks or acknowledgement. When I saw that woman collapse on the subway last week and called for help, I knew that she'd never know that it was me that summoned the ambulance. I was being Santa Claus when I did that." Son: "Oh." Dad: "So now that you know, you're part of it. You have to be Santa Claus too now. That means you can never tell a young kid the secret, and you have to help us select Santa presents for them, and most important, you have to look for opportunities to help people. Got it?"
Help each other this Christmas🎄🎅 and...be kind ❤💕
So, that said, I can't understand how Jesus and Santa have to be mutually exclusive. It is all in the context. Actually there is more in common between the two than are different. Unconditional love. Giving with no expectation of return. Keeping the story age-appropriate.
Does this same pastor suggest that when a five-year old asks about where babies come from to give them the full sex talk? I think not. We keep the information age-appropriate, and not all of the gory details. Weaving the Christmas story and Santa together is not heresy, but showing how helping and giving to our friends, families, and strangers during this season is only doing what Jesus asked us to do: Love and take care of each other.
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Rev Mark D
Actually having this guy do this in front of a church is a great opportunity to tell the kids exactly that, what you said. Turn it into a growing moment and a positive one of the actual supposed real Spirit of Christmas. That's the best response, taking it as the opportunity it is and nobody loses, everybody wins, everybody benefits. Except of course, you know, Pearson's Nut Rolls.
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Father Flanagan
There is actually more physical evidence of the existence of Santa Claus aka Saint Nicholas than there is of Jesus in history. For me I believe Santa was created as a way to help indoctrinate children at an early age in to the basic concepts of Christianity. The fun and excitement make it easier to transfer belief of an invisible character that has powerful magic powers and the whole reward aka present/heaven for obedience/good behavior versus the punishment/hell for disobedience/sin is practically identical! I chose not to indoctrinate my second son and let him decide on his own what he wants to believe, we only present him with facts upon request and he seems to be quite confused as to why so many people buy into these religions when you look at them objectively without pressure you can tell immediately that there is no such thing as an all powerful invisible deity in the sky that created and watches everyone and everything. But that is what we believe and everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want so long as they don’t push their beliefs upon others.
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Rev Mark D
The pastor is wrong. What is he wrong about? He follows the primitive appraisal that children are the same as adults. And he's committing a sin, the sin of forgetting what Jesus said about seeds, and seeds falling on Stone versus seeds that fall in soil. He knows the parable but he forgot it in his pride.
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Catherine
@Rev Mark D
Isn't that a selectively narrow metaphor?
No one has shared a single good reason for telling Christmas lies to children. Why is that?
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Mike
Perhaps that's because that question wasn't asked. Why is that? If you want answers to your "why," how about submitting your own post.
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Catherine
@ Mike
It was. Above and elsewhere.
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Catherine
Pastor Grisham as the grinch... funny :)
Santa mocks God? Doesn't convincing children there is a Santa mock childrens' trust?
Is Santa or any figure necessary for people to want to spend time together?
I believed in the tooth fairy, probably because a quarter was involved, though never Santa. And I was scolded for telling other kids there was no Santa, same as some of them were scolded for telling me there was no tooth fairy. Irony :)
Aren't myths, parables, and fairy tales sufficient to teach life lessons?
Why should children be deliberately told lies by parents and family members they are supposed to implicitly trust?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Myself, I believed in the Tooth Fairy and Santa. Because, as you said, that stuff had to come from somewhere. However I do not ever remember believing in god. Oh, I could say a blessing and knew the stories, but it was a lot like knowing not to burp and fart in certain situations. Just things you had to know the grease the wheels of society. But I never remember believing.
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Father Flanagan
Because it’s the earliest form of christian indoctrination! You can never see Santa or Christ meaning they’re both invisible, they both have magical powers, and they both work off of a reward - punishment system of rule! With Santa if you are “naughty” you get coal in your stocking and no present and if you are “nice” you get presents! And with Jesus if you are “obedient” you go to heaven and if you are a “sinner” or simply a non believer you go to hell and suffer for all eternity oh, and both of them can see everything you do all the time! They’re practically identical except they designed the Santa story to be more palatable to children but the concept gets instilled laying the foundation for switching from one fictional character to the other which by the way guarantees the church more money in the collection plate from another obedient servant/slave! Because yes, I don’t see a difference between “follow my rules or burn in hell” and “pick that cotton or I’ll whip you again”!
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Catherine
@Father Flanagan
This comment sums it up perfectly.
"I don’t see a difference between “follow my rules or burn in hell” and “pick that cotton or I’ll whip you again”!"
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Catherine
Absent honesty, I think Santa and other fictitious characters counter critical thinking. It's one thing to relate an allegory or metaphor for analysis. Very much another to tell a lie, encourage children to believe that lie, and encourage children to encourage other children to believe that lie. How adult is that?
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Dent L. Sweem
I believe he could've put it a different way perhaps... Like, Santa works for Jesus, but it's the birthday of Jesus that we're celebrating. That would've been a lil more on the lighter side of things.. it's alot of times how you say things. As far as all of the anti-Christian rhetoric this blog is getting famous for... It stinks too high heaven and really is ugly. Christians founded this country and I believe the Constitution was divinely inspired. If everyone is so unhappy here why not just leave and find somewhere else that might make you feel more wolcome? Why? Because I can tell you why... No other country would put up with all of their\your bull crap. Try being gay (and all the alphabet that goes with it) in an Islamic country cowboys n girls? Yea i thougt not! LMFWAO!!! God Bless America Where you can still be who you are without that much worry.
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Catherine
@Dent L. Sweem
Have you noticed the 'coexist' logo made of symbols recognizing multiple faiths? This is not a christian forum. It is an 'everyone forum'. If you prefer to live in a bubble with narrow exclusions, do that. Why come here to complain that other people think differently?
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Tecla Caryl Loup
You are aware, of course, that Christmas was not a celebratory event like it is today until the mid 1800s. The Mayflower Compacters were not interested in celebrating much of anything. Queen Victoria had something to do with the elevation/celebration of Xmas, since she was a Germanic person who related to evergreens and Yule. The big fuss/commercialization of Xmas is a relatively recent event. So why get your undies in a bundle over it????
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
Queen Victoria's husband, Albert, was German. It was he who intoduced the Christmas Tree to the UK although we had other forms of tree worship (e.g. wassailing) before then.
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Cortez Cunningham Jr
Please support my granddaughter has been kidnapped.
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Wilberta M. Berry
I don't understand the purpose behind trying to equivocate Santa Claus with Jesus. Santa deals with commercialism and Jesus deals with spiritualism. The perverbial mixing apples with grapefruits. Therefore I cannot begin to explain this Pastors purpose. I can however express my view that he should haved been and still should be ignored. Anything for attention 🙄
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Catherine
@Wilberta M. Berry
Not much difference between Santa and Jesus at all? Each has a basis of existence that has been used by greedy, control freaks. Each us extremely commercialized and used to manipulate.
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Jimmy Moon
He is no worse than a sodomite parading down the road naked in a fruitloop parade. That should get peoples attention and demand a stop to it. But they allow the fruitloops to have a whole month every year to put their sin on display. Also a lie is a lie, no white or little. Still a lie.
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Lady Mutt Cat
The only fruit loops I know of are those who try to deny the freedom to speak to folks who believe differently than they do.
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Catherine
Hypocrisy is more convenient than not and stubbornly embedded as a 'go to' when realities or truths become uncomfortable?
A thousand-ish years ago, 'Carmina Burana' was being inadvertently formed by minstrels and would be theologists from several regions of Europe. Amidst some positive observations, they wrote poems satirizing the Catholic Church aside other more or less humorous tales of bitter ironies about life then.
Yet when story tellers, or even truthtellers, are appreciated, lessons from their stories are mostly distorted or ignored.
How many people like to be lied to or abused or oppressed? Doesn't one follow the other?
Collectively, we seem to resign ourselves to oppressions. As long as we can complain or pretend giving way to oppressors is okay, life is good enough. A sort of global Stockholm syndrome? So deeply rooted that nothing seems able to shake it off.
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Hawk-A Spiritual Advisor
I myself did not lie to my children about any holiday. I taught them that Christmas was about the birth of Christ (God Incarnate). I also taught them that others had the right to believe as they wished, but if brought up in conversation to speak openly, honestly, and bravely about Christ. Yes, sometimes I had to deal with angry parents over this. It wasn't always easy remaining humble and respectful all the time. Yet I found a way and usually started praying for them right then and there in front of them. Then we all would decide how to help another family that was in need. Sometimes it would be one that had berated me earlier in the month. Yet God's work comes first not personal feelings. May all Celebrate Christ this year and be Blessed Going Forward Always
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
I didn't lie to my children either, I taught them that Yule was a celebration of the Sun getting stronger and the time when power transfered from the Holly King to the Oak King. When they asked about Christmas, I told them it was just a Christian attempt to hijack our festivals.
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Lionheart
I didn’t lie to my children either. I taught them how to think, not what to think. I taught them how to use logic, reason, and critical thought to determine truth.
🦁❤️
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ServantOfJudgement
Children able to read such a sign are most likely old enough to sort out santa is really dad and doesn't come down the chimney to give gifts and eat cookies. It's really no big deal at all.
Adults overestimate children in all the wrong ways and underestimate them likewise. Children love fantastic stories, it stimulates their minds. They love to be silly and have fun having fun. Adults want them to ditch fantasy unless it means they can pick one or more of the 68 genders. In that case adults encourage silliness in thought and absurdity of action. Let kids be kids. Let them imagine the fantastic worlds of their own mind. Let them dream of wonderful things.As far as the goofy thinking about Jesus or God being mere fantasy, I haven't found a single thing in the Bible that's hard to believe, not one. All of its wisdom is employed by all societies in one form or another. It's laws and principles are found in ours although we've added several million words to accommodate our insanity and stupidity.
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Michael Hunt
I was able to read at the age of 3 and I still believed in Santa at that age. I think you are underestimating the age at which children learn to read and at what age children no longer believe in Santa.
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Dawn Miller
Well.....if I weren't already a Wiccan, this guy would certainly make me run for the hills to find them!! And to wear the costume of a joy crushing, gift stealing hairy angry green ...Grinch...what's he conveying? He can become very dangerous, if he's not already. And other off their rockers zealots and narcissists that use Jesus as a shield, and also wield him as a weapon are allowed to get away with it. And I'm telling you now, they need to be stopped. Permanently.
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Kendall Schlabach
Santa is all fake and I’ll say it’s pretty much a lie to a child saying things about Santa I grew up not believing that crap. Not saying everyone is doing wrong but I don’t teach that to my kids it’s not right. But Jesus is real and I believe that but bringing Santa in the picture is wrong. There was no Santa when Jesus died or was resurrected again.
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Jennifer L Taylor
Amen!!! Finally a comment I can agree with!!
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Lady Mutt Cat
This idiot is exercising his First Amendment rights. I'm quite happy to ignore him. BUT, saying that he shouldn't or can't do what he's doing because YOU don't approve of it negates what the First Amendment is all about.
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Mitch
I mostly agree, but saying that he shouldn't do it is certainly not an attempt to negate any first amendment rights. Unless of course I need to give up my rights to promote his. I'm under the impression that my rights end where they impose on another's, but perhaps that's wrong.
Regardless, the freedom of speech cannot be infringed by the government. That does not mean that citizens can't mock people using that freedom to spout garbage. And this dude is out there lying to children, trying to break their trust in their parents, and generally disregarding families' traditions. It's garbage.
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Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
Benjamin Franklin said, "This Constitution gives all men the right to do as they feel free to do, however he must be willing to face the consequences of his actions in doing so." That's from one of the men that put the Freedom you're talking about into place.
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Theresa C. Marquess
Thank you for your comment Rev. M.Y. Dixon! Benjamin Franklin said it so well. We are people who have free will. Thank everyone's God(s) for that!
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Rev. Donut
I think this "Pastor" is not so concerned about the kids but more concerned about being noticed and maybe getting some press.
Looks like it worked.
I would leave his church because I think this guy wants everyone to "see it his way"
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Geoffrey C. Olive
The message should say “Santa Is Real” as I’ve seen him in a local department store, and “Jesus Is Fake” because nobody has ever seen him!
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Both Santa and Jesus, imaginary, to the science-minded; real to the “opium of the masses” masses — both are harmful to the mental health of little kiddies, because both see little kiddies, when they’re sleeping, or awake, picking their noses, playing with their pepe’s, hating mommy and/or daddy, picking on their siblings, or stealing from the cookie jar. Frequently parents use Santa, and the Prince of Peace, to control their kiddies, by telling their kiddies, that they’re always being watched — and because little kiddies, are prone to believe anything an adult tells them, Santa and Jesus are real — so real, that their image becomes implanted permanently in one’s brain. And, those under constant observation have mental problems caused by such observations, by itself; when you add, that their minds are constantly being read, the resultant mental health problems are compounded. If one must worship something, instead of Jesus, or Santa, worship the Sun, because the Sun is the source of all life.
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ServantOfJudgement
When identifying the source of all life you misspelled the word Son. All things were created by Him for Him. The Son is the source of life.
The sun is just a ball of fire in the sky, there are plenty of them but we call them stars. Stars are not a source of life, otherwise the cosmos would be boiling over with it.
It's wise to worship the Son as you suggested.
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P. Keith Benefiel
Santa Claus was the chimney sweep who kept wooden cities from burning down every winter. Black Pete (or the elves) was his climbing boy. Real folks, real heroes.
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Jennifer L Taylor
I was so impressed to see this man stand up for the love of our lord and savior during a time when parents lie and tell kids about Santa when Jesus is the reason for the season!!! Wonderful pastor 🙏 🙌
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Danny D. Maynard
The tilt of the Earth's axis is the real reason of for the Season!
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Geoffrey C. Olive
What’s Jesus got to do with xmas? I thought it was all about spending lots of hard earned cash on plastic things made in China, chopping down nice pine trees, wasting electricity on colorful lights and inflatable cartoon characters, killing lots more birds for an overindulgence of food on a day off from work, telling lies to children, watching crap on TV, and generally being lazy, etc, etc! I like xmas!👍🤪
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Lionheart
I’m sorry for your delusional indoctrination. 🤗
🦁❤️
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Sigh. There is a legend of a St. Nicholas, after all, if we must have a direct connection between Christianity, Santa Claus and what is essentially a Northern European winter solstice celebration. Jesus was not born on or near the winter solstice. The Star of Bethlehem (oops, astrology!) did not appear at that time. The census that Joseph and Mary allegedly undertook was not in the year 0. And to top it all off, the real celebration of Jesus' incarnation into the physical world and subsequent events is Easter, not Christmas (despite the name), the Resurrection being the central point. The association of trees/holly/mistletoe with the winter solstice are pre-Christian in origin from more or less Germanic and Celtic cultures.
In essence, that pastor guy is a nasty man and ignorant to boot. Let him denigrate the Easter bunny instead, leave Santa alone and quit attempting to make young children cry.
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Tom Herman
This pastor has no right to interfere with the children of others. If he wishes to destroy his own kids beliefs, hopes and dreams, that's another matter. One that I trust Child Welfare will probably one day need to intervene. He is simply being cruel and sadistic. My hope is that those in his church boycott him, take him behind the woodshed and really teach him to have tolerance and respect for others. This insensitivity is why many young people are not involved in religion. He should be ashamed.
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Brent Breland
I use the month of December to be Santa claus. Real hair , real beard. The red suit , the complete package. Being Santa gives me the opportunity to spread the love of God by telling thousands of children about the birth of Jesus. Then they know what and why we celebrate.
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Yvrose Atkins
A lie is a lie. And we all know that Christmas and Santa Claus have nothing to do with Jesus.
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Lionheart
Exactly, well done. I wonder if the Jesus guy was real? 🤔
🦁❤️
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Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
The ignorance of humans always astounds me. Reading through the comments the numbers of times "Myth"/"Mythical" used to equate to "fake" and "fantasy". The original story and question is Santa and Christmas issue; and no one person in comments managing to point out that "Santa Claus" aka "Saint Nicholas" was a real living person. Specifically a Roman Catholic Monk born in modern day Iran. He was sent by the powers that be to the Netherlands as promotion (however it was really to get the do gooder out the Vatican's hair). He was the exception to the rule of a Catholic priest being the living example of Jesus Christ, that's why his Myth lives on. Myth meaning a Legend with a spiritual element in the story. A legend is a historic event that may be over exaggerated or misinterpreted with time. "For every myth and legend has a core of historical facts." My History text book from college taking Christian Archeology and Ministry. The facts Roman records in the famous Vatican's vaults state Jesus was born April 17 and they highjacked the Winter Solstice and didn't even keep it on winter solstice aside. The fact is that parents teach the lie of the "fantasy" Santa Claus instead of the actual true Saint Nicholas is telling of humanity in itself. The main story is about a "Christian" preacher protesting a lie by dressing up as "the Grinch" a fictional character, which is technically a lie, to protest about a Pagan Holiday stolen as a lie about the birth of Jesus, which the Scriptures provided not to celibate birthdays which are a pagan ritual to begin with. Face the facts everyone; Christmas is "all about the Benjamins". By Teaching your Young children a lie you undermine their trust in you as their parents.
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Lionheart
I wonder how true that date of April 17 is? In fact, I wonder if the tales about Jesus are true? 🤔
Pity there’s no archeological evidence to support his reality.
🦁❤️
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Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
Actually that's my point, there is achealogy evidence proving Jesus the person existed. Vellum records in the Vatican's Vault on Jesus' birth recorded in Luke. The Baby massacre of Judea, Bible simply states Herod the Greats death not that Augustus Caesar had him executed for disobedience. Augustus was given a prophecy by the same Oracle that told Julius "Beware the Ide of March". That a king of the Hebrews will be born and executed only to return as King of the world. The same prophecy BTW Buddha gave about the Hebrews 100 years before that's where at least one "wise man" came from records in India support this having us at least one of the names, Melchior. Augustus has a palace built (today it's called the Vatican) and orders to find the King of the Hebrews (Jews) have him brought to Roman to rule Israel from Roman (as puppet king) to prevent Jesus being King of the world over him. Herod (Hebrew for King) ordered the baby murdered to protect his illegal kingship. His father not even a Hebrew from Modern Jordan a descendants of Ismael, his mother not a Judean (actual Jew) but Josephite (tribe of Joseph). That is recorded on vellum in Vatican's Vault. Then pilot had Jesus' trial recorded like we do in court Today. And on clay tablets. The only charge any evidence could find Him guilty of is being rightfully heir to the throne of Israel. Under Roman law a rightful heir must be put to death, Augustus was gonna make exception due to the prophecy, by Jesus' trial that died with Augustus. So, Pilate had no choice but to sentence Jesus to death guilty of being rightful King of Israel. His daughter born of Mary Magdalene would be under same threat so they fled to Iberia (Modern Spain), there's a temple to her and DNA proves the remains are Mary's. That's why the Holy Gail myth starts in southern France/Northern Spain (Dan Brown only exaggerated it) the King Arthur Myth started in France, Saxon to be exact, by a French Author not England that's a fact. So, there is Prof and facts just "you can't handle the truth". As wise man once said.
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Lionheart
Yes I'm aware of the vellums, and other parchments, that have been found over the centuries, but if you check out the "Authorship of Luke–Acts", along with the supposed other authorships of the alleged appostles, you will find there is a lot of conjecture as to the reality of some of the stories contained.
Some of these vellums/parchments have been dated to have been written three and four centuries later. What we do know is that contemporary historians at the time of the said Jesus never wrote about him. Don't you find that odd? Historians that did write about him never met him because these authors were born decades later, so the stories they wrote about were all handed down, word to mouth. No wonder some of the details in some of those stories contradict with each other in the New Testament.
DNA tests. Analysis of mitochondrial DNA performed by Lakehead University on the remains found in the ossuary marked "Jesus son of Joseph" and the one marked "Mariamne" or "Mary" (who some "claim" to be Mary Magdalene) found that the two occupants were not blood relations on their mothers' side. Based on these tests, the makers of the documentary suggest that "Jesus" and "Mariamne" were probably married "because otherwise they would not have been buried together in a family tomb," but the remains were not dated using radiocarbon to further sustain this supposition. Neither was any DNA from the other ossuaries tested to see whether or not any familial relation existed there. Additionally, scholars argue that the DNA tests only prove that they did not have the same mother and they could easily have been father/daughter, cousins, half brother/sister, or any number of possibilities that do not include a matrilineage line.
Bottom Line: There is still no proof, as you claim, that the DNA was Mary's of the New Testament.
I'm happy to accept truth, Sir Miche'al as long as there is good supporting demonstrable evidence, as a wise man once said. Thank you for your comments. 🤗
🦁♥️
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Patti Anne Lisenbee
First there were the primative peoples celebrating the light coming back, near the close of the year. Then there were more celebrations of this event with the gods and goddesses of the times mixed in... Saturnalia is one of the most known about ones. Pagans continued to follow the old ways, with or without thier gods and goddesses blended in. As civilizations came and went, so did this year end festival with new or revised meanings ot the same reason and implements of the festival. (I.E, bringing in a tree, hanging misletoe, decorations, gifts, etc.) After all the years gone by, it has evolved into our festivals of Yule. Add in a kindly man who gave dowry money to single girls so they could marry, which developed into Santa Claus, and we have Christmas as well. Then the Catholic church took over Yule to bring pagans into their religion and lo, Dec. 25th happens. It's all tied in. It's all pagan. There is no solid evidence of Jesus in any of the writings of the time. Stories of Jesus developed about 100 years after his so-called death. There is more proof of St. Nick than of Jesus!
This pastor has no right to disparage other beliefs, but this is what Xianity does. It disparages and destroys other beliefs so it will be the only one left. With over 40,000 denominations of Xianity now, each one tries for its own place in the world, and this attempt is this pastor's way of pushing his particular beliefs on everyone else, other xians included.
People should be left to their own beliefs as long as it doesn't cause harm to anyone else. worship your god with your particular belief in the sanctity of your buildings, but leave other people alone. If I were a parent there, I would sue the man to shut him up.
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Michael Anthony LaRocca
The pastor (if you can call him that) was way out of line. If you want to evangelize to children, then teach them that even Santa kneels before the baby Jesus. You can also teach them about St. Nicholas/Santa is doing what Jesus taught us to do. With Christmas, everything is always about Jesus. There is even pictures of Santa kneeling at the crib of Jesus. That would be the way to teach children, not to destroy a child's dreams. If I can speak for Jesus... I do not believe He would ever do anything to harm a child. I pray for the parents that now have to undo the damage this "pastor" has inflicted upon them.
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
Exactly. I think what the pastor did was teach children that if Jesus is real, he's a total jerk. There is a stage children reach when they realize Barbie isn't really talking to them. If you said to them "Stop talking for your dolls and making squealy wheely noises with your toy cars. Talk to Jesus instead, even though he's silent!" it would be very weird indeed. Their imaginations are building the skills and outlook they need for adulthood. Why so selfishly take it away from them when they aren't even ready yet?
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
Children live in a make believe world. It's how they play both by themselves, and with their peers.
Having a Santa tradition is pretty much like a child sharing their invisible friend. And in both cases, they grow out of it. They even go through the same doubting stages that they go through with their invisible friends, when they start internalizing and not overtly vocalizing their play times. That's the most obvious sign they're growing out of that stage, although not quite there yet. When they get to the age that they aren't vocalizing pretend things when they play together (guns shooting, dolls talking, etc) then they are at that recognization that there is a distinct separation between real and imaginary.
My opinion is that when they reach that point with their invisible friends, it's a good time to stop claiming that Santa is real, and let them come to the facts on their own just like they do with their invisible friends and the way they play with their real friends.
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Catherine
@Karsten S. A. Johansson
You don't think life alone teaches sufficient lessons?
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
Well, that was my point.
Kids grow out of pretending Barbie talks to them or their toy cars squeal their tires at their own pace. Shortly thereafter they realize the tooth fairy and Santa aren't real either. They don't need adults to purposely stunt their life's lessons.
Let them do it on their own, and let them have their not-grown-up imaginations that make their childhood what it is even without adult help. Pretend play, whether it be play guns and plastic cooking utensils on a stove that doesn't even plug in is the vehicle in which children's brains develop.
I think people who want to put an end to that are jealous that a kid's entire job is to enjoy their paths to discovery, which is mainly through play and make-believe, so they ruin it and blame it on Jesus, then pat themselves on the back for answering God's call. But really, they're just being jerks.
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Catherine
@Karsten S. A. Johansson
You don't think life ALONE teaches sufficient lessons?
People who don't lie to their children are jealous?
Discovering my parents lied to me and tried harder to make me believe something that was obviously untrue, made me distrust them.
Do you think that's okay?
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
Did you feel the same when you realized your toys don't actually talk to you, and cartoons weren't real people? Because there was a time in your life when you totally did. And it wasn't something you'd fault your parents over.
There is a belief that children should be raised more seriously and shouldn't even play imaginary games... only practical ones like sports or whatever. Are you in that camp, 'cos then it makes sense for you to take such a hard edge on the Santa thing.
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James Manley
Sadly, Christmas which is a Christian festival has been pushed out over recent years by people who are not Christian. They want to have holidays and fun and enjoy the Christian festival and yet they don't believe in Jesus. Do they do the same thing for Jewish, Islamic or Hindu festivals? I think not.
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Catherine
@James Manley
There shouldn't be holidays for non-christians? Belief in Jesus or any religion is necessary to have a holiday?
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
The fact that Christians pushed their holidays over top pagan ones suggests that non-Christians already beat Christians to the game.
Funny that we still have Yule Logs, and sometimes refer to the holiday as The Yule, and Yuletide carols. Those are specifically pagan terms.
It's a load of disinformation for a Christian to push that the holidays are a Christian-specific holiday, when it is more or less quite universal.
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Mike
What a putz.
Believing that Santa and Jesus cannot coexist is one thing. Telling children that is not. That should be between the parents and their children.
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Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
All the comments make me wonder 🤔 If Jesus is fake as many claim and complain about telling everyone He is real (which there is evidence of His existence the same as Saint Nicholas) then why do you get your panties in a bunch over Jesus and not other fake people taught to everyone is real?
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Catherine
These discussions are for voicing opinions and sharing insights and thoughts. None of which require agreement or acknowledgement. Sometimes panties do get in a wad because people can be passionate about what they feel. I imagine you are aware of that, so why ask?
I've read there is evidence a Jesus existed. Probably many by that name then, same as now. How many who worship Jesus know his real name? First consider the letter 'J' didn't exist then. And:
https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/hebrew-names/from-where-did-the-name-jesus-come.htm
"the modern name "Jesus" comes from the Latin Iesus, which comes from the Greek Iesous, which comes from the Aramaic Yeshu'a and the Hebrew Yehoshu'a. "
And still, there is no evidence Jesus was more than a charismatic human. If Jesus was more than human and his birth was so celebrated, why did those who wrote about him not write more about his childhood and what he did through ALL his living years?
As for 'all the other fake people', I think teaching children to believe lies, especially those that encourage them to lie to others, is cruel. It's one thing to tell a story straightforwardly as a known fictitious story. Quite another for parents to insist to children a fake person is real when there is no proof.
Now if it were said Jesus or Santa are characters in stories that hold important lessons, I could get behind that. Instead, people want to think it's okay to lie to children. No bueno.
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Allan Lloyd Badgett
People are not ready for the truth
We need billboards Jesus is fake, Santa Claus is real. You see Santa every Christmas and magically your wishes come true and there are presents Christmas Morning. Have you ever seen Jesus? Does Jesus leave you presents you prayed to receive. Which one is real…. Santa who we know lives a the North Pole or Jesus which no one know where he lives.
Exactly the reasoning I used when I was a kid. And the whole thing both makes kids happy and teaches them a lesson that you can’t believe everything you’re told.