Has the true face of Jesus been preserved?
Since it first appeared in 14th century France, the Shroud of Turin has been the subject of intense debate. This ancient linen cloth is purported to be the burial cloth Jesus of Nazareth was wrapped in following his crucifixion. The shroud faintly shows the image of a man's face and body miraculously emblazoned in the fabric. Many Christians – particularly Catholics – believe it to be the true face of Jesus Christ.
Carbon dating in the 1980s initially indicated the shroud was likely a medieval forgery, a theory that persists to this day.
However, new evidence has just been released suggesting that the shroud is a genuine relic dating to the time of Jesus. If true, it could well be the case that the shroud shows the face of Jesus.
Fact or Forgery?
The shroud first shows up in historical record in 1354, when it was gifted to a church in Lirey, France by the knight Geoffroi de Charny. The famous knight insisted it was the real burial shroud of Jesus Christ, but there’s little record showing how de Charny initially acquired the shroud in the first place.
Even in medieval times, the relic was met with a healthy skepticism. In 1390, the bishop of Troyes told Pope Clement VII that he believed the shroud was a forgery, and he suggested that it may have been created as a means to raise money or gain followers for its home church.
Related: What Did Jesus, Mary, and Joseph Actually Look Like?
Science Says…
Given its obvious theological and historical importance, the shroud is one of the most scrutinized historic relics in history. And at one point, researchers thought they'd finally gotten to the bottom of the mystery.
In 1988, a series of carbon dating tests revealed that the linen in the shroud was created between 1260 and 1390, with 95% confidence. That would make the shroud a medieval forgery, only some 700 years old.
Carbon-dating experts have long accepted the results, though theories suggesting everything from external sample contamination to the shroud being repaired in the 14th century kept the hope alive that it really shows the face of Jesus.
But were they wrong? New X-ray technology used on the shroud suggests the shroud may actually date back to biblical times.
New Evidence Comes to Light
The latest study from the Institute of Crystallography in Italy flips the prevailing scientific wisdom on its head, once again dating the Shroud of Turin to biblical times.
Using Wide-Angle X-ray Scattering, the team examined the structure of the linen’s flax cellulose on a molecular level. What they found was cellular deterioration in the linen consistent with fabrics that date back to 2,000 years ago. The Shroud of Turin was deemed compatible with another linen reliably dated to 55-74 AD, from Masada, Israel.
It's arguably the most significant piece of evidence in favor of the shroud's authenticity ever discovered.
Will We Ever Know the Truth?
However, it's far from a definitive answer. Even if the shroud dates back to biblical times, its whereabouts for roughly 13 centuries are still unaccounted for, and the only evidence it’s actually the shroud Jesus was buried in comes from a French knight who died in 1356.
Perhaps it will remain a mystery. But technology is always improving, so the answer could still be waiting for us in the future.
Plus, thanks to the power of artificial intelligence, we have an idea of what the figure under the shroud looked like. AI analyzed the shroud's profile and replicated the "true face" of Jesus – that is, if you believe it to be Christ under the cloth.
What is your reaction? Do you have any theories about the Shroud of Turin?
110 comments
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Drew Stangle
While this is certainly interesting, I think it still leaves a lot of room for debate as to who the shroud was honestly wrapped around because we have no proof of this. I personally, though a Pagan, do believe that Jesus was an actual person and may well have been the mouthpiece of his chosen deity. That said, there is nothing conclusive to prove, other than the account of the medieval knight from however many centuries later on, that this was the shroud that Christ was buried in. Were it possible without potentially damaging what is in essence someone's holy relic a wait further. I would love to see if there was a way to test these kind of Shadow images that are in the fabric and actually see what they came out as. Do I think it's dye, not necessarily. I wonder if maybe it's like oils and dirt from a body that, at one point, was perspiring and then wrapped in the shroud resulting in the staining.
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Paula Copp
I’m pagan (witch) myself. I think it’s entirely possible that the Jesus of the bible actually existed. I don’t believe he’s any more special than the rest of us. As far as the shroud is concerned, it may well be from the time frame of the christian savior, but if it’s the actual burial cloth will probably never be known.
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Stephen P DeLozier
Spoken like a true pagan. By definition, you don’t believe in Christ or any formal deity or religion. You worship the earth, which we believe is Gods creation. The core of Christianity, Islam or Judaism for that matter, is faith. So Christians don’t need to “prove” anything with scientific methods. God or any of His manifestations is not something science can prove anyway. So the shroud isn’t something we need to debate. I can say for certain, Christian is spelled with a capital C.
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Paula Copp
When I turn christian, which, by the way, will never happen, I will then capitalize it. Until then…
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Rev. Stahl
Paula: I do not know if I am right or wrong. My logical thinking is something like this.
If witches or warlocks are real and capable of spells, magic, etcetera, where does that power come from? Is it “evil or goodness?” Or both? White magic or Dark magic?
If either of those premises are correct, is it possible that Jesus had those capabilities as well? If so, where did his power and authority come from or originate from? Was his magic white or dark magic? Was it real or not? He started by performing various “Miracles.” The first being water to wine. The simplest. Followed by healing the lame, the blind, the possessed, leprosy, casting out demons, multipying bread and fish not once but at least twice; to be witnessed by thousands. Miraculous catching of fish in the net on the other side of the boat, raising the widow’s dead son, calming the sea, healing the woman’s chronic bleeding, making the mute speak, raising Jarius’s dead daughter, walking on water, raising his friend Lazarus from the dead after five days, withering the fig tree and on and on. With the most difficult being the raising of himself from the dead by God? These were witnessed over and over for at least three years. So many people witnessed this 2000 years ago. So many that word spread in that time period of existing for those people that they came and gathered to hear him speak of the Kingdom of God and to be healed themselves be Jesus? And it was written down. It is supported by archeology, anthropology, astrologically, and many other disciplines of science. I cannot convince anyone of what is true or false, but the perponderance of evidence appears to indicate Jesus may indeed be real. And that is where Faith is. Right or wrong. Truths or lies. It is really up to every person to decide for themselves. I know what I believe. If I am wrong, I have nothing to lose. But if my faith is correct, it is possible you have everythjng to lose.
Just something to consider. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Rev. Stahl
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Paula Copp
We are both ministers. We both work to help others on their spiritual life path. If I am wrong in my beliefs, then I will suffer for them. If I am right…
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Rev, Rene L.
As I understand it, previous carbon dating put it around the 14th century. Personally, I find it believable to be a cover used for Jaques De Molay, the head of the Templars at the time, who was tortured to death on the command of the pope and the French king. Money always finds a reason.
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Minister Harry
That was my understanding as well.
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Robin Anne Hannon
There is no conclusive proof. Plus, this is a white Jesus with straight hair which is highly unlikely. Most in the Middle East were not Ashkenazi Jews, they were Sephardim and much darker with curly hair.
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Cheryl
Yet if Jesus was from the Essene group, then he would have been more Aryan than Sephardim...?
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Michael David Slone
The bible depicts jesus as having skin like bronze and hair like wool, so darker skin and curly hair fit his image more
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
"As well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen."
Does this verse not suggest the Turin shroud is not what people want it to be?
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James Mounts
First prove the validity of the verse, before you use vit to prove the validity of the shroud, please
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John Mack Ring
I agree with Karston about the cloth around Jesus` head. The scripture to valid this is found in John 20:7 Rev John Ring 9/4/24
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Hmm, if a shroud surrounds a body, why is there an image of only one side of the pictured entity?
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Colleen McAllister
The full Shroud shows both sides of the body.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I have never seen a picture of it.
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Theresa C. Marquess
Whether any of us believes that the Shroud of Turin is the actual shroud of Christ is all a matter of faith. Recent examination using the newest scientific methods does tell us that it is very possibly from the same time frame as Christ. It's all a matter of opinion. Faith, like anything else, is a personal choice.
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Colleen McAllister
In my opinion the Shroud will never be proven definitively to be real. If it were then people would believe because of the Shroud and not by faith. Our souls are saved because of faith; not by works, family, or scientific proof.
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Paula Copp
My faith is in what I can see, touch, smell, taste and breathe. The christian god doesn’t work for me.
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Paula Copp
My faith is in what I can see, touch, smell, taste and breathe. The christian god doesn’t work for me.
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Paula Copp
My faith is in what I can see, touch, smell, taste and breathe. The christian god doesn’t work for me.
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Donna J Enneking
Although it has much historical importance, whether it is - or isn't, doesn't change the fact that I do believe in Jesus. As it has passed through history, people, scientific and other conjecture, it may always remain a fascinating mystery.
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Nicholas J Page
I dont see how a shroud of Jesus Christ can show his image because it would have been exposed to the elements But if it is then it is a true miracle.
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Russel A. Kester
The linen dates back to the correct time and place. There is no known technology ar that time for the creation of the image on the linen. The linen and its image should be accepted as genuine unless there is good proof to the contrary. Its whereabouts for so long is of little consequence since given the times, secrecy was probably what saved it. As far as I can tell, which I admit is very minimal, the image is what someone from that time and era probably would have looked like. This is good news for the Christian faith.
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Paula Copp
Because I believe in science, I will continue to believe it is not the actual cloth until it is proven to be so. Since there’s no known DNA for god, it’s unlikely that the truth will ever be known.
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Russel A. Kester
Paula, you wrote that you believe in science. So, for you science is a faith. I, on the other hand, trust in the scientific method to provide facts which reason can then use to determine truth. Science tells us the shroud is from the right time and place which are highly specific factors. If it were a fake, what is the likelihood that someone hundreds of years later would have been able to secure cloth with those specifications? Rather small. And how was the image created if it is a forgery? What technology was available in the Middle Ages.when the shroud resurfaced? It seems you want absolute certainly with respect to the shroud even though the preponderance of the evidence favors it's authenticity. I submit it is not really the shroud to which you object, but the idea that its being real means the foundation of the Christian faith is real and, hence, the Christian faith.
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Paula Copp
Science is not a faith, and I am not a scientist. The image on the linen appears to be that of a Nazarite, while the christian christ was a Nazarene. There’s literally no connection between the two.
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Russel A. Kester
Paula, I think you err. Both Nazarites and Nazarenes lived in ancient Judea. While Jesus grew up in the city of Nazareth and was this called a Nazareth as a descriptive term for his origins, given that by the age of 30 he had never married he might well have taken a Nazarite vow which ended when his public ministry began. Whatever the case, it doesn't seem credible to say that they had no connection as both groups were Jews.
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Paula Copp
That’s like saying Catholics and Protestants are the same because they’re both christian. Wrong again. If Judas had to kiss the cheek of Jesus to identify him to the Roman soldiers, then it stands to reason that Jesus had short hair like the rest of the people of that era. That immediately excludes the person in the shroud. The person in the shroud also appears emaciated. Jesus was a carpenter! He had muscles. He was also probably married…
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Russel A. Kester
We'll just have to disagree. And I seriously doubt Jesus was married. That is something the Gospels would have mentioned!
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Paula Copp
Not necessarily. The apostles were jealous of Mary Magdalene because of her closeness to the christian savior. Sounds purely like misogyny to me.
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Paula Copp
Comment removed by user.
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Victor Wayne Sweatman
I believe in science, and I have my faith, but I still have my doubts as to where the shroud is authentic or not. I wasn't there to witness the wrapping of Jesus' body, nor was I present to witness the carbon dating or other scientific tests applied in 1988 or the recent tests. Wish I could be as sure as you seem to be, but I cannot. But what difference does it really make? You know Christ or you do not. Simple. A controversial piece of cloth with an image emblazoned on it shouldn't make a difference, should it? Faith is believing without tangible proof.
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Joseph SCott Queen
Paula, Jesus was /is 100% God. Also, Jesus was flesh and blood just like us. there would be DNA from His blood. He was incarnate, God became flesh and died for our sin.
John 20:6-8 is absolute.
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Paula Copp
I’m a pagan witch who also happens to be a minister. In my estimation, the bible is a misogynistic tome of stories aimed at controlling women and minorities. Believe what you want, and I will believe what I want.
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Rev, Rene L.
Yes, and then it rained but I was bone dry? There is some historical belief there was a Yussef of Nazareth, a carpenter maybe, but just as dragons did never exist we must keep our belief system within a reasonable realm. We may have elevated Him to a God after His death, but I believe during His life He was an educated clever moral MAN!
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James Mounts
Not so fast.
Even if we accept that the cloth is 2000 years old, it does not then follow that that is also true of the image. Since we have no idea HOW the image was made, we can't tell WHEN the image was made.-
Russel A. Kester
James, a valid point. However that is also a point in favor of the shroud's authenticity. If our current, much more advanced, technologies cannot reproduce or even understand how the image was created then it seems to have come from a supernatural cause, like the resurrection. Or aliens. Take your pick. But it doesn't seem Earthly in origin.
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James Mounts
Russel, when I was a youngster a wise old preacher man gave me what I consider good advice. He said, just because you, with your pitifully limited knowledge can't explain something is no excuse to jump to the conclusion it was Divine intervention." Absence of evidence is just absence of evidence and proves nothing.
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Russel A. Kester
James, isn't the absence of evidence the logic used by unbelievers about God's existence? But we are called to faith not logic. Sure our faith should be informed by reason and experience, but that doesn't rule out the supernatural. How do you think the shroud came to be based on current evidence and its history?
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James Mounts
Russel, having faith in God is not the same as having faith in people. If you wish to believe David Copperfield really made the Statue of Liberty disappear, go ahead. Even though I don't have an inkling how he performed the trick, I prefer to believe it was just a trick because if it were not a trick, it would go against all that I know of the system God set up, i.e. physics. As for absence of evidence, basic logic dictates that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because I don't understand, does not mean it is not understandable.
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Russel A. Kester
In this case, it isn't that there's no evidence, just that people don't like the evidence available. I agree it's not complete, but then neither is the map showing how we evolved from lemurs or which ever critter they propose.
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James Mounts
I thought we descended from apes,!!! Silly me. At the risk of being repetitive, because there are gaps in evidence I possess, I will not therefore jump to the conclusion that a miracle occurred. I prefer to await further evidence.
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Russel A. Kester
Google says you're right. Our physical bodies are descended through them.
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Patrick Conklin
Actually it’s been reproduced many times and quite convincingly. From Joe Nickell’s rubbing technique to the reproduction from Luigi Garlaschelli, there’s nothing supernatural about making this image. And these techniques were available to the creators of the shroud in the 14th century.
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Russel A. Kester
Patrick, here what Google's AI assistant found related to the possibility that the shroud was created as you suggest:
There is no evidence that the Shroud of Turin was created by rubbing compounds into the fabric, and there is much evidence that it was not:
No pigments or stains: Scientific studies have found no evidence of pigments, paints, dyes, or stains on the fabric's fibrils.
Image location: The image is only on the surface of the cloth's fibrils, not in the medulla of the fiber. This suggests that it was not created by vapors from chemicals or the corpse.
Image type: The image is a photographic negative, not an image created by an artist.
Blood imprints: The blood imprints on the shroud were present before the image formed.
3D imaging: 3D imaging of the shroud shows bones inside the hand and flesh around the bone.
Pollen: Analysis of pollen found on the shroud suggests it originated in the Middle East.
Microscopic traces: Microscopic traces of soil and flower pollen from the Jerusalem area were found on the shroud.
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Patrick Conklin
I didn’t suggest anything; I stated that the image was easily recreated.
I find no Google articles that disprove rubbing technique.
Actually, microscopic imaging shows significant traces of what could be paint pigments.
No blood was found on the shroud.
No olive tree pollen was found on the shroud; how could the shroud be from Israel with no traces of olive?
The shroud fails on 3 major fronts:
-scientifically, the evidence points to 14th century.
-historically, the Bible never mentions an event that would have created such an image. Also, a single cloth covering the Christ contradicts St. John’s description of the burial clothes.
Religiously, no Pope has ever acknowledged it as the authentic burial cloth. In 1390, Pope Clement VII specifically said it was not to be claimed as the actual burial cloth if Jesus.
It’s a forgery, a very dangerous forgery for the real believers of Christ and the Bible.
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Victoria
I couldn't agree with you more. I do believe that the Shroud is indeed from Christ and what am amazing miracle it is to see his face. He is coming back soon as we are certainly in end times. Blessings to you and yours. Blessed Be... I affirm Christ as my savior and I look forward to going home.
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Mountainsage
I have found what gives people faith and hope is a good thing and there’s not enough of it.
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Merlin
Blood typing performed on the Shroud in the 90’s indicated an AB blood type( newest blood type). AB blood is considered 1500 years old.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Science improves over time so yes, I can believe that the they now think the shroud dates back 2000 years. Also, the fact that it took 30 years to get all the data from the 1988 carbon dating to be released brings its validity into question. They found mistakes were made. The real question is this the face of Jesus? We will never actually know so it becomes a matter of faith.
I also ask is this not Idolatry? Are people worshiping a false idol, putting the shroud on the same level as Christ? It seems this is what the 1st commandment was talking about. Just sayin.
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Rev. BH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin Interesting history and study. Many problems of authenticity noted. E.g,.The cloth itself, a "herringbone twill weave" did not yet exist. A plain weave did. (They say if you gathered up all the venerated pieces of the cross, you could build a barn with them)
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ServantOfJudgement
Jesus The Christ was horrible beaten by worldly men. By record, beaten like no other. Punishment of death for accepting our sin upon himself. Bloodied and bashes is what the record says and that matches the expectations one would imagine if Satan would get his hands on the willing Son of God and Son of Man.
This cloth shows an unblemished face with a good stache and kept hair.
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Russel A. Kester
If this is the image of Christ's glorified body wouldn't that explain the difference? During his resurrection appearances it seems he only kept the wounds to his hands, feet, and side. Where saints have experienced the stigmatas. When Peter, James, and John witnessed the transfiguration his body radiated light. This image looks like some sort of negative I used to see in old camera film but reversed.
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ServantOfJudgement
Hmmmm, I did read elsewhere the image appears to have been burned into the linen. That's exciting to think of it that way, it makes sense. Imagine if that image were a snapshot immediately before he opened his eyes.
The other interesting thing about this study is our reliance on carbon dating seems to have been shaken a bit. If the accuracy of a 2000 year old item was dated so poorly, we should expect even older items to be even less accurate.
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Cheryl
Perhaps when they treated the body with oils for burial the evidence of blood was removed ... ?
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Manuel R. Vela
To those whose faith requires it, then to them it is real. We are speaking of faith not facts!
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Harvey Darwin Myers II
The issue is always one of faith. If anyone tells you they suddenly believe in Christ because of this, I would question their belief, not to be snarky, but simply because belief in Christ requires faith. If you want proof, you are barking up the proverbially wrong tree. Paul, lists the evidence that people who never heard of Christ can see to understand the existence of God. Nothing more is needed nor will more change the minds of those that do not wish to see.
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Rachel Kestra Olson
While I understand and can appreciate the fascination with holy relics, for me, it has no effect on my faith life or my relationship with Christ. In fact, it seems rather beside the point and more of an intellectual cul-de-sac than a matter of true spiritual awakening. I am always puzzled by how much more focused Christianity has become on Jesus' death and on the pursuit of empirical data about his life, than on absorbing and replicating what he taught and demonstrated in real time while he lived. My take away is that his legacy might be better served if we used our energy and resources to actually live his directives to love and care for one another rather than trying to find evidence of his physical remains in questionable artifacts. Just sayin'...
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Rev. Donut
It's all about a persons faith.
The shroud may or may not be the legit one. It could be some other guys.
A person must rely on their faith.
No one, not you or I or anyone else has or will beat death or returned to life. So, there is no one to ask.
It's faith or nothing.
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Minister Holly B Lovey
I believe it is real. The new evidence is more acceptable than guessing and better proof even if someone in a high position back then said it was fake. People didn't want Christians around and a lot of those peoples "ideas" were just that and no proof and they did not want Christians to be right. Christians were murdered in those times. Anyone that does not believe in Jesus is always going to bring negativity to the table. I believe it is Jesus. Amen
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Rev. BH
One does not follow the other. I am convinced of a historical man named Jesus. I do not believe in the magic cloth.
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Robert Neil Price Jr.
What is it with the constant Christian bashing on here? I never see people bashing Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, etc., just Christianity. I thought this was a place where people of all faiths, or none, could come to discuss the topics of the day. I believe in free speech and saying what you want on forums, and I'm not easily offended, especially by words, but I have to admit these snarky, insulting atheist types, and I see them everywhere on line, always the same attitude, get pretty annoying. And besides that it's boring and passe. I think these people really want to believe and are angry because they can't.
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Rev. BH
RNP, I don't see as much Christian bashing, as frequent disbelief in Spirits in the Sky, by any name. (Christian Nationalism on the other hand, deserves all the bashing it can get.) Personally, I hope I fail to put down any religion, including Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, etc., as all have something to offer in their teachings, whether or not you accept their gods.
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Keith D
Does it really matter? Science, especially 'the' science, was demolished by, if not before, cvoodoo and the deprecation that surrounded it.
Everyone needs to tune in to Divinity and connect with that flow. Else they waste this pass on the planet, and delay the rest of us.
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Paula Copp
Science is real. The earth is round. Vaccines work. Chem trails are not a thing. Climate change is real.
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Lionheart
The earth is actually an oblate spheroid, but I think I understand what you mean, Lady Paula 😜.
🦁❤️
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Rev. BH
Irrelevant, Lionheart.
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Keith D
Paul Copp:
Science is indeed real. 'The' science is an appeal to authority fallacy based on a scientific sounding manipulation.
As to your apparent assumptions about my beliefs regarding certain matters of science, you're really off base. And frankly, your statements are not even consistent with 'the' science, never mind the reality recognized in genuine scientific inquiry.
'The' science has been shown to be phony many, many times even recently. Many disclosures that apparently escaped your notice. 'Settled' means fake, when you're talking real science. You believe certain things, but your reasoning is visibly nonexistent and your belief as dogmatic as the worst in religion.
I renew my call for people to awaken past the Matrix dogmaticism and manipulation of people unto their own destruction. Rise into your Sovereign consciousness and use your mind for its intended purpose.
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Michael Warren Smith
The shroud is the representation of a person who may have been crusafied a very long time ago. Is it Jesus? ,,, it’s possible,,, and then there is no hard evidence that it is Jesus’s burial shroud. If it brings a person peace, leave them in that peace without harming their faith.
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Keith D
Michael Warren Smith, this is agreeable.
My 'ministerial' point of view is that these bits of materialism have that kind of utility, and I hope that it helps a person ask the Universe, as it were, and start developing a far more vibrant gnosis than the mere belief that science, stuck in mere materialism, has to offer.
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Warren Calvin Wall
Just a casual thought as I have no dog in the hunt. If the shroud is, indeed, the genuine article and a relic of his death and resurrection, wouldn't it be locked away in the Vatican's treasure vaults? Wouldn't it be one of the Vatican's most prized possessions? Where are the linens that Mary used to collect Jesus' spilled blood to be entombed with his body as required by her religion. I believe that they would be just as important as the shroud itself yet they seem to not exist. Wouldn't they have been present with the shroud itself? Was there a Rabbi named Yeshua ben Yoseph wandering around then? Probably. Was he the son of God? Well, according to the faith, aren't all men sons of God? There are always more questions than answers.
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Vicki L Hanna
Since the article states that at this time, it was found the shroud material dates to the time of material found at Masada (55-74 AD). Then the shroud cannot have Jesus' image on it. Keep on wondering.
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Rev. Klaire ThD, MA
No, sorry, still a forgery. Here's a good, empirically developed breakdown as to why that is. https://youtu.be/C8XRpeXopHY?si=nOGDicA5vGsGOSux
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
I have a question....
If Jesus was healthy and 33 wouldn't this not Be Biblical? He whip bruised beaten, yet the shroud said older just by looking... How old.. 700 isn't that GODs' number... ? Are we missing pages then?
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
I mean we read Jesus was 33 when he died. And he was beaten and bruised.. so why does this look like he did die... Unless he came back and lived again until dying of older age?..
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
This does provoke debate and questions. And GODs' number is 7.. zero is not a number and 700 yrs in numbers is 7 ... The shroud is a message
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Charles Paul Biederman
I leave this one to GOD I just know he is beautiful and know that one day I’ll will be with him worshiping him in his kingdom and I believe that is the only way we are truly going to see what Jesus looks like is to get to heaven . So on that note God bless everyone and have a wonderful day
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Allen Nace
Well now. There are many questions. The shroud was wrapped around someone at some time. Was it Jesus? Was it a person named Jesus? Was Jesus just a man? Was Jesus a God? Or the God? Was the religion in which he was raised god driven? Or myth driven? It is a great behavior modification system that has kept people in some form of behavioral compliance for a long time. Is that all it is? A system of control!? Science and religion conflict with each other!
Is one true? And not the other? Could both be true? Some religions believe the earth is on 5,000 yers old and have never heard of dinosaurs. Did they exist? Science says absolutely ! Their faith can not allow them to even consider science and carbon dating. What is the reality? When you die do you just cease to exist, like before you were born? Do you lay dead until Jesus ( mythical or real) comes to get you? There are many questions that their answers are beyond our scope of knowledge. Are you being as good a person as you can be regardless of whether an afterlife exists?
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Mary Lynne Lightowler
You may want to connect with Joe Marino, one of the world's leading rresearchers re: The Shroud of Turin. He offers an email list featuring what is going on throughout the world on this topic, and does so weekly. I think you can request access to being added to the mail list @: jmarino240@aol.com . Blessings. p.s. There's also a very interesting test done revealing the image is from other than blood as it's on the outer sides of the fabric. . .like when Jesus returned to spirit and discarded the body, and that event exited the cloth leaving marks (the image) on the cloth.
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Roy Vernon Davis
We must draw strength from God. With God all things are possible. He would not let anyone make a mockery of someone else being in the Turin.
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Paula Copp
Seriously? Wow
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Rachel Brink
In my head, I believe there is sufficient evidence to support the existence of the rabbi, Jesus. I believe he was a radical teacher for his time and tried to help people understand that God was loving and compassionate and very different from the angry, jealous god the religious leaders had exploited to control people through fear. In my heart, I believe he was somehow more than a man, but I'm not fully sure what he was. That is my own personal spiritual journey. What do I think about the shroud. I don't care. A piece of cloth should not dictate someone's personal faith. It has no relevance to mine.
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Joseph SCott Queen
John 20:7 into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. The face would not of been on the shroud. His body was wrapped. Then His face was wrapped with a second linen.
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Tom Herman
The debate about the Shroud has been going on for centuries. Whether or not you believe is a matter of faith or science. As the science improves, we may learn the truth. I believe the French Knight believed it was real. A follower of the day would not be condemned to hell for eternity for a lie.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Forget about carbon dating; try DNA testing instead. If this shroud actually touched Jesus Christ in a manner that His whole silhouette can be seen on this fabric, then scientists should be able to do way more than just see when this fabric was produced in the first place.
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Peter A Fizer
The question is academic at best,science will always try to debunk anything pertaining to proof of Jesus his life and most important his resurrection,Christians looking for proof will accept some things on face value! I conclude Christians seek their proof from Jesus and God in prayer and their personal and spiritual belief and faith the promise was made the price paid for sin so you shall have everlasting life.NO SHroud Real Or Fake is not worth considering!
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Victor Wayne Sweatman
The Shroud of Turin always has been and will always be an article of speculation. Some will believe it to be the face of the Christ Jesus, some will never believe it while many more will always question its validity. To see the true face of Christ, look to his deeds, look to his teachings and to his ultimate purpose while HE was here on earth. Look to the Jesus in the New Testament, and not to the New Jesus in the Testament of politicians, seeking favor with Christians. You will not see a mirror image of HIM, but your heart will recognize HIM, you will know HIM, and HE will be looking back at you.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
since cheeses was born through a process called parthenogenesis s/he would only inherit maternal dna, no y chromosome and would be born female. with modern technology and a good shroud sample it might be possible to examine the dna and confirm that the blood is from a woman i(n drag, a drag king)
not sure the kkkristofascists would appreciate knowing their 'savior' was a woman who lived as a man but then, that would make a lot more sense given her fluctuations between passivity and angry outbursts
as for the beard...hypertrichosis, inherited from the maternal line.
so cheeses was a hairy, bearded woman who lived as a man (and possibly was a lesbian given her close relationship with mary m. (and the source of calling outrageous gay men, mary)
it all starts to makes sense now, dunnit!!!
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Maximillian Martin
The shroud is not what you think. It's the burial shroud of Jaques Demolay. One of the last, if not the last, Templar Knights. Shrouding was one of their burial practices!!! But, crazy people and religious fanatics will swear and be damned that it's their icon!!! Delusions run deep in them!!!!
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Stephen Smith
It’s a fake and it’s been proven the holes was in the hands not the wrist
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Victor Wayne Sweatman
The palms of the hands are not strong enough to support a mans body for a long period of time, so in most crucifixions, the arms were tied to the crossbeam and the feet were nailed, one on either side of the upright. A terrible execution that took days sometimes. Cause of death was usually asphyxiation.
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Cindi
I believe Christ Jesus was tall, very muscular and had a darker complexion. Muscles come from working as a carpenter. No electric tools and therefore he used his muscles.His hair may have been shoulder length and he would have had a beard as men did in those days. The AI pic shows him a skinny, which is doubtful since he had plenty. Carbon dating isn't an exact science and who knows where this cloth originated?
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
if cheeses was carpentering as you claim, why is there no record of him doing so? he seems to have showed up suddenly, claiming to be a fisherman but even then, no one ever came forward to discuss his success as a fisherman (well, other than a fisher of men but then, so aren't most twinky gay bois)
I like the idea the cheeses traveled widely (he took a gap decade) and believe he spent a lot of time in india where he developed his chill, zen 'tude.
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Latoya Smith
Amen 🙏🙏🙏
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Kevin James Bogan
Whoever it is was a handsome devil. He got good genes.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
but only from his mother's side. there was no passing of genes from the paternal side. cheeses was born of parthenogenesis so strictly mama mary's genome
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Rev. BH
Skip the foolish "cheeses" business, and you make an interesting point.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
If Saul (the early Christian basher) who legend tells us, became Paul, after having probably eaten “magic mushrooms” while on his Road to Damascus; and while hallucinating Saul, who metaphorically became Paul, envisioned Jesus while he was hallucinating, ergo, Jesus was hallucinationally-induced from the get go; ergo, if Jesus was a hallucination, so, therefore, is the Shroud of Turin, The greatest hoax, so far in human history, is the Jesus hoax, followed closely by the Holy Ghost (who’s a closet second)
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Kathryn Schneider
Huh? Thou hast confuseth me. lol. No don't try to explain now that I think about it. Because now I'm not sure if you were trying to be jokingly sarcastic and proving a point or what you wrote you meant and i not knowing enough about what you said, meant, and what is actually written in the Bible just confuses me more. Please don't get angry because I'm not trying to be rude or mean. Be well and be good to you friend. Katie ☮️💜♾️
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Miriam Gates
I don’t believe it is authentic. The reason I believe is God knows the humans He created are prone to touching tangible things…so this cloth for example represents what humans do is they worship the cloth material as something holy. I saw this same thing while I was in Isreal and in Bethlehem where the manger Jesus was supposedly born (this is in Palestine). Golgotha where Jesus was crucified. There are temples built over these locations….there are thousands and thousands of people who were going there and they are literally worshipping these locations, kissing the ground, crying as if they were holy…. They are made into idols and Jesus in human form had life events at these locations but they are just ground and stone and walls etc and not meant to be worshipped.I wished these buildings were not there. I wished Golgotha was still outside as it was when He was crucified… but it’s not. I personally went to see Isreal….in its beauty. We also went to Egypt and Turkey and Greece. This is my personal belief we should worship Jesus himself not the physical places he sat or walked etc.
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Daniel Robert Bobay
If indeed it is real we will never be sure.There are ways to create images like that on linen but, it represents a crucified man so you have to wonder who would do that with the detail we see on the shroud. The crucified man be it Jesus or someone else is representative of the horror of execution and even if it is not Jesus, it is representative of Jesus' crucifixion and death. belief that this event took place and Jesus lived, was killed, and rose from the dead is enough.
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Kathryn Schneider
You will believe what you want to or are forced to. What you hold in your heart and mind guard closely if its different than what you display and publicly profess. If your lucky like me you will grow as a person and cast off the chains of rigid religion and be able to relax regarding the Trinity. I have found that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit can really be your best friends. I have found that it's okay just to talk with them. Reciting prayer is ok but to create your own prayer something unique and special that tells them how You feel about them.... How would you feel if someone gave you a gift created just for you? Have faith in faith itself and don't be afraid to be different. Believe in a reality that has substance and that my friends is not always science. Be well and be good to you my friends.
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Richard Mutch
The Truth is: it shouldn't matter as to the exact age of the Shroud or its history, to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see. The Fact is the Shroud is a gift from God to present the reality of His Son. Please note that the shroud is a Miracle in itself. To this day no credible scientist can duplicate or authoritatively explain how the depiction on the Shroud came to be. In itself it is a documented Miracle that cannot be duplicated. What we can learn is the truer age of Jesus near the time of His crucifixion: which was closer to 45 years old (John 8:57) and it was the Jews (the spawn of Esau (Malachi 1:2-4) whom crucified the son of Jacob/Israel. Those who are "taught of God" (John 6:45) will understand, and concur with, what i am relaying.
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Tracy Bradley
Given to me through the Bible and the apostles of Jesus I feel the Holy Spirit of Jesus’s teachings. It may not really matter what is Authentic but what is righteous.
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Lorraine Eagleton
Ok for one thing Yes Jesus Christ did exist on Earth and Yes showed many Miracles- The Source of Talents was the Light he had within, his Big Heart- True Love- it’s also the Power of the Mind - if you truly Believe in something anything is possible also having the Power of God - Even though Jesus had his believers- of course there are going to be haters do to Jealousy which were those of power - rulers ( who were losing respect from the people) of who they were neglecting and here comes a man who helped and healed these neglected Vessels- I don’t believe that the Shroud was truly Authentic because after so many years and not properly preserved it would eventually fall apart. Also Jesus is still alive but only in Spirit- and what he looked like back then - he looked like everyone else in that of where he was born to blend in- I can go on forever but I believe you all got the idea- I am a True believer of God and Jesus Christ with my heart and soul - Please go in Peace…. Amen
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David Nicolas Cerwin
Jesus brought a message. It's up to us to propagate it. One could try to affirm it. One could try to discount it. The message remains the same. One does not believe in the dogma, to live by the message. Love. That's what we're all looking for. Find it where you could.
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Susan Christine Giganti
It could be a very old fabric on which an image was later painted. Since Emperor Constantine’s Mother , known as St Helena, many objects were attributed to being originals used by the historical Jesus. Wood from the cross, a crown of thorns, pieces of a cloak , a cup, comes immediately to my mind. Who knows?
Ah yes, the Caucasian hippy Jesus is once again revealed.
Hahahahaha! Good one!