New state legislature just passed in Alabama allows private adoption agencies to refuse service based on religious beliefs. While the bill doesn't specifically mention homosexuality, many have assumed that it is directed toward those individuals who may feel uncomfortable with a gay adoption (placing a child in need in the home of an LGBT couple). The new law does not apply to agencies that receive federal funding.
Similar laws passed in Michigan and South Dakota have already drawn criticism for providing express protection to child adoption agencies that turn away prospective families because they are gay or transgender.
Many have criticized the bill, known as the Alabama Child Placing Agency Inclusion Act, including Senator Rodger Smitherman of Birmingham, are condemning how the bill would obviously "sanction discrimination". Another representative, Patricia Todd, who is openly gay, shares a similar view, referring to the bill as "bigotry in the first degree."
Whose Rights are Protected?
Governor Kay Ivey, having officially signed off on the bill, argues that "This bill is not about discrimination, but instead protects the ability of religious agencies".
Specifically, the bill will prevent any penalty or legal action against private religious adoption agencies that "declines to carry out an activity that conflicts with the religious beliefs of the agency."
This added layer of protection for the Alabama religious adoption agencies flies in the face of the LGBT community, as Alabama is one of the many states, along with several of its neighbors, that has yet to pass a general LGBT nondiscrimination law.
Alex Smith, the board chair of the LGBT advocacy group Equality Alabama, explains on behalf of the LGBT community of Alabama that, "We value the place that faith has in many people's lives but using one's faith to discriminate against another person is wrong, and should not be made the law of the land."
Doing What's Best for the Children
With all of the controversy, it is easy to lose sight of the children whose lives are forever impacted by the decisions of their adoption agency and the home they are placed into.
The new bill, while met with heavy dissent, highlights a very important question:
Are there actually any negative effects of children being adopted into a same-sex or transgender family?
The Science Behind the Truth
In order to answer this question the University of Melbourne in Australia put the idea to the test. After a large-scale investigation of over 500 children under the age of 18, adopted by same-sex parents, their findings were published in in the journal, BMC Public Health.
Known as the The Australian Study of Child Health in Same-Sex Families (ACHESS), researchers actually found no difference in the levels of confidence, self-esteem and time spent with their parents, as children adopted by same-sex parents. Surprisingly, the results showed that actually children adopted into LGBT families typically had healthier and stronger relationships with their family members.
This affirmation of the LGBT family unit does not come as news to many, as the 2010 US census reported that nearly two million children are being raised by lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender parents (LGBT) in southern states like Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Utah and even Alabama.
Major Takeaways
It is clear that the LGBT community has made strides toward equality, even within the last decade. However, there are still facets of American life that resist change. The new legislation by Alabama, protecting the ability of adoption agencies to discriminate on prospective families based religious beliefs, clearly represents this resistance.
Research done by the University of Melbourne completely debunks the idea that children adopted by same-sex parents are somehow more disadvantaged by those adopted by heterosexual parents, even highlighting several benefits.
How do you feel about the new Alabama laws? Should adoption agencies be able to turn away prospective parents based on their sexual orientation?
111 comments
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JOHN MAHER
KEEP TRUMP in the WH and WATCH UR CIVIL RIGHTs go into the SWAMP, WHERE HE should be THROWN with the REST of the VERMIN RNC/GOP
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biblical scholar
LYING LIBERAL! TRUMP WILL DEPORT YOU!
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Sam
I do agree with you Brother. Shame
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William w. George
What does your comment have to do with Trump,wasn't this about the state of Alabama ??
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William w. George
Yep I double checked, nothing to do with Trump , and I don't think the A Hole even cares.
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Sylvia Guerra
I agree! Sad & afraid for our country...I agree.
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Rev paul
I agree with you on this
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Marius Gabriel Burja
Not my problem. God can deal with it.
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elizabeth scott
can prostitutes adopt? If I had a different sexual partner of the opposite gender can I adopt?
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John Owens
Seems like you are saying you are a lesbian prostitute, or living with one, and also that there are only two genders. Nothing wrong with that. Just saying, that's how it seems.
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JPB Agustin
Yes a Prostitute can Adopt with his or her partner regardless of gender. A LGBT couple should be allowed to Adopt a child. A LGBT couple should follow the Bill of Rights and the recognize the Rights of a Child in raising up their Adopted Child.
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Rev paul
It sounds like if you were gay then you could not and i think that would be wrong
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Jess Martin
another example of a religious minority using religious freedom as a way to deny others of their constitutional right to equal rights
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John Owens
Nope. You are not reading the article. Try again.
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Amber
The last 2 sections in this article say otherwise Jaz... read it through.
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John Owens
Much ado about nothing. The law does not do what the hand-wringers are screeching that it will do, and any private business or individual can decide when and with whom to do business. That's all there is to it. Our laws were set up to protect the rights of the individual, and we ALL need to be thankful that is so. If I have say, a used chain-saw for sale, and potential buyer makes me nervous--maybe I'm afraid they'll hurt themselves with it, maybe I have a queasy feeling they will use it for destructive purposes, it doesn't matter. Maybe I just don't like them. I don't HAVE to sell them that chain-saw, and I don't even have to feel guilty about it. While children are much more important than tools, the principle is the same. If I am not being paid by the government, I can and will reserve the right to do business with whom I choose, and when I choose.
The fact that this law does NOT SPECIFICALLY mention homosexuality means it is not SPECIFICALLY intended to discriminate against homosexuals. If there is no intent to discriminate and there has been no evidence of discrimination, there is no CASE for discrimination. Case closed.
The poor homosexuals carry a heavy enough burden. It's as if nature itself is against them, and nature never gets tired and cannot really be overcome. I think we should try to be nice. I don't think it's fair to agitate over this. They aren't losing anything, so why should anyone get all worked up over it?
I'm sure I'll catch a little flack from some self-righteous freedom crusader(s) for my comments, but they are innocuous and non-inflammatory. We need more peace-makers and fewer trouble-makers right now. This world is on the brink of a melt-down, and it's not any one group's fault, but everyone needs to let everyone else just breathe and see to their own affairs just a bit and reach some kind of equilibrium.
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John Owens
So, you are "moderating" the crap out of my thoughtful, correctly-written comments, but NOT moderating the all caps with exclamation points comments? Kinda defeats the purpose of a blog, doesn't it?
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Tom B
John...you are absolutely right that the world needs more peace-makers and fewer trouble-makers now...anger does not help this world; love does
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claregibertlare
This is the argument used to perpetuate discrimination against people of color, and women. It's tired and debunked by most thinking people.
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John Owens
THINKING people know people of color and women discriminate ALL THE TIME, so YOUR statement is VERY tired and untrue. EVERYONE on the WHOLE planet discriminates. When you choose cauliflower over broccoli, you are discriminating. Your statement is ignorant and pompous.
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William w. George
Is it still legal in Alabama to marry your cousin or other relatives, and are there adoption agencies not associated with church's ?? , if it is this is just another moot point, you did say adoption agencies with religious ties .
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John Owens
Doesn't sound like you know anything about Alabama.
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Ecumenical Fellowship Church
I would love to visit Alabama. i hear its lovely.
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John Owens
I've been a lot of places. Used to have a travelling jones. Now, if I didn't have to go anywhere I wouldn't. I've buried my parents and wife here, raised two beautiful children here, now seeing my grandchildren grow here. No place I'd rather be. We've had something of a monsoon the last two months. Wettest, coolest summer of my life, I think. Still, generally I tell people if they don't like the weather to hang around a few days, because it will change. It is very green here. Plenty of lakes and rivers. Most people either have a recreational boat or jet-ski, wave-runner, or have access to one. Canoes and kayaks, fishing and hunting in season. Alligators in some of the southern half of the state. State parks, golf, motorcycle and automobile racing, Concerts in the bigger cities, music parks and gun shows, fourth of July celebrations with bands and picnics. Most people are friendly and courteous. On country roads drivers will wave when they meet you, often. Crime is low everywhere except the inner city-- we just don't tolerate thieves and thugs. We only joke about people marrying cousins, and we only talk Southern and country as a form of protest against the stupidity of elitism and conformity.
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Tom B
John...sounds good to me...Tom
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Tom B
Adoption agencies should not be able to discriminate...children should be adopted by persons who love and want them, and sexual orientation should not be a factor...it is bad enough that there are millions of children who will never be adopted; as well as many children in families that really do not even want them...
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maiane Santos santos
Thanks for the insight, my wife and I spent 13 years fostering, we tried to adopt once the ministry dropped the ball, long story, good ending, the first two posts almost scare you from answering intelligently.
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Tom B
i congratulate you on having the love to foster children
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Ecumenical Fellowship Church
I tried many years to adopt as a single parent and also tried to be a foster parent in the state of Iowa. I took the foster parenting classes three times, got all the certificated and yet the social agencies turned me down as a clergy person, I don't make much. It was upsetting. I congratulate you in your efforts.
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John Owens
Of course they are SUPPOSED to discriminate. That is THEIR JOB. They are supposed to discriminate in order to find safe, healthy homes for children. The hysteria over this is over homosexuality, but the law itself is over religious freedom. Religious freedom is a RIGHT, as long as it does not harm another. At the present, no harm as been done, so there is nothing to cry about. There are plenty of other adoption agencies. I'm sure NAMBLA could open one in Alabama if they so chose. I am not against same-sex couples adopting. The opportunity for the children is wonderful. I AM against socio-political groups trying to dictate to religious organizations what they can and cannot do. It will discourage them from being active in helping people in need. That may be the hidden agenda, but since I am not an insider in ANY movement, I cannot say.
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Tom B
They are supposed to be careful; i used "discriminate" in the sense of not treating people equally
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John Owens
Yes, Sir. I understood that. Being careful is discriminating. Being choosy is discriminating. Being picky is discriminating. A shrewd shopper has discriminating taste. A smart person is discriminating when it comes to their close friends or people they allow into their homes. We discriminate when we choose where to shop or worship or fish or hunt. Gay men are commonly thought to be VERY discriminating when it comes to clothing, decorating, haircuts, etc. The infinitive, "to discriminate" is not an evil word, even though it has some evil connotations. My motorcycle club requires that any motorcycles its members ride when wearing club colors be made in the U.S or made by an ally of the U.S. during WWII. That is discriminating. ANY time you choose one person or product over another it is discriminating. Like choosing sides in volleyball. It's a RIGHT.
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Tom B
John...your writing is accurate; especially that the use of "discriminate" in the ways you have stated, is fine...Tom
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Rick
That particular organization (NAMBLA) disbanded years ago, so I doubt they're opening adoption agencies anywhere.
As for the rest of your comment, I would counter that I am against religious groups trying to dictate to the rest of society what they can and cannot do. It stifles good works by groups other than any particular religion, most of which have already caused great harm.
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John Owens
No religious group in Alabama is trying to dictate anything to anyone, with the possible exception of parents dictating to their own children, and that is not a church matter but a family matter. It stifles good works for churches to be told they have to do the same things with and for everyone. That is against the Amendment which states that Congress shall pass NO law regarding the establishment of religion OR the free exercise thereof. And I'm sorry for you that NAMBLA disbanded. I'm sure you can find another group.
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Rev paul
Well said tom
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Marius Gabriel Burja
What is sexual immorality anymore? What is perversion? Who cares about marriage and procreation anymore? It's all about money. I lost faith in people government and law. All of it can go to hell. Blow up the whole world. Lick each other as dogs. That is what this world is about. Now I can unsubscribe. No need to speak my mind. No one gives a crap. Good bye loser world.
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biblical scholar
Agreed. Perverts are demons and will righteously be punished for eternity.
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Rick
Devils and demons and perverts; oh, my!
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Carol Amina
My daughter was very young when she became a mother the 1st time. She was raped and I'm proud to say that she worked hard to graduate high school by the time her son was 3. She and my grandson moved out of my home when she was 19, she stared college and tried to live the straight life, she got pregnant again and had another son, when he was just 5 months old she met her partner...they have been together for 19 years, and got married last year. My daughter finished college and is now an attorney. She and her partner worked opposite shifts all along and raised two wonderful young "straight" men. (FYI lesbians can raise straight kids) I am super proud of them all. I worked in children's mental health services for 25 years. I saw so many kids who needed good homes....with loving parents. I was a single parent and know that it's a very hard thing to do and having a partner of any gender would have made for a better home life for my kids. Why must Christians always try to push there values on others? I am not a Christian but I am a good, honest, faithful and spiritual person. Why is it ok for Christians to act as if there way is the only right way? I agree our government runs on money...who ever has the most wins. The mega church Christian Right has there own agenda and my freedom is at risk.
My hope is that my grandson are now of voting age, as are there peers. I know many young people who are not hate filled like there right wing parents because they have grown up with families like my daughters and know there is nothing abnormal or wrong with same sex parents.
All I am saying.....is give peace and love a chance to grow and leave those of us who don't believe in the Bible or Jesus as god alone to believe and live as we wish and you can do the same. Peace
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John Owens
That is a beautiful story, Carol. I am glad that things worked out so well. I still point out that no Christian in the article is pushing their values on anyone else. On the contrary, others are trying to push THEIR values on the Christians. There are enough people who are not Christians that can open adoption agencies so that no one has to feel oppressed. The whole purpose of the agencies is NOT to provide parents who cannot conceive with children. That is a side benefit. The purpose is to find good homes for children who need them.
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Carol Amina
Hello John Owens, I have no issue with Christian Churches and other businesses doing what they wish as long as they are open to say right up front who they are. I only worry that any government agencies would discriminate agents people who are gay and want to adopt. I still wish Christians would just open up there hearts and be accepting of others. It seems so many things are wrong in this world and a persons life style and who they sleep with at night should not be anyone business.
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John Owens
No. It is not anyone else's business with whom one sleeps. I still cannot understand though, why people who absolutely hate Christians think Christians should just open up their arms and embrace them. It is a great contradiction. It is like saying, "If you are truly a Christian, accept our pagan practices to prove it, and allow us to persecute you." That is like saying, "If you are truly a real man, you will allow others to dominate you, and you will wear pink and cry a lot." That kind of manipulation will only work on the weak.
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Carol Amina
John Owens, I am not saying Christians should agree, like or embrace my values at all. I am asking to be respected and treated fairly. I dont hate Christians. I dont treat them with a lack of consideration or respect. My brother is a pastor of a Calvary Church and welcome him and his wife into my home. They find my faith and my beliefs offensive but do not act rude to me or try to discount me. I would never do that to them in there home.
I am only saying that Christians and Pagans or Non Christians can and should be able to co-exist. The world would be so much sweeter for all of us.
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John Owens
I agree that we should all be able to peacefully coexist, Carol. I am just saying, that IF one tiny segment of the population does not like the way ANOTHER small segment of the population runs an adoption agency, that the tiny segment of the population should open its OWN adoption agency. There is probably a big market for that, and some entrepreneurial LGBTQ business-people could look into that, instead of talking about how EVIL the other segment of the population is. Most would rather cry and wring their hands about oppression than get off their backsides and take some initiative.
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Amber
That sounds more fear driven than fact driven. Jesus taught love and acceptance, charity and healing. You cannot heal broken people if you judge them so harshly. It isn't about being dominated or manipulated. It's about choice to use your position to truly help or to separate yourself from those in need regardless of their belief. True Christianity is about how you live, not how you dictate to others.
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John Owens
AMBER! No one is judging anyone. This is about allowing people to practice what they want to practice, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. NEITHER is it about dictating to others. In this case, it is the left who wants to dictate to the right. LIVE, and let live, as long as no one is hurting you. No one is taking anything away from anyone else. Group A (the LGBTQ lobby) wants Group B (Christian charities) to give Group B's rights to Group A. Group B says NO. If you want to do this, set up your OWN agency or use someone else's. That is completely fair. What is judgmental is judging that Group A SHOULD be able to take Group B's rights, when Group B is NOT taking Group A's.
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Howie
Thanks Carol, I'm glad everything turned out well for you and you're family. I totally agree at the heart of this issue is children are being denied the opportunity to be loved. These are Christian organizations that are honestly setting pompous judgement on same sex couples. Let's call a spade a spade. Seems to me they're are just a bunch of hypocrites when at the core of all Christian religions is "judge not lest ye be judged" and "do onto others as you would have done onto you." They can judge not to adopt without even getting to know the couples. One again we see discrimination hidden under contrary principles of the Bible. And it's the children that suffer. I want no part of any religion that goes against it principle believes.
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Nix
Beliefs, that is.
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John Owens
Howie, while you are calling a group of people WHOM YOU DO NOT KNOW hypocrites, you are practicing hypocrisy. You refer to pompous judgment, when it is YOU who is being pompous. Can't you see that? Doing unto others includes YOU. This law does NOT keep ONE gay person from adopting any child. It simply states that a church-based adoption agency is not legally bound to give EVERYONE equal service. If they were, convicts, child-abusers, homeless, drug abusers, Muslims would all get equal service. Before you start criticizing that comment, I'm not comparing anyone to anyone else. I am just saying, people who find homes for children MUST be allowed to use their judgment, which is informed by their values. IF their values inform them to exclude gay parents (which they MAY, or they MAY not), they NEED the latitude to do that without fear of frivolous lawsuits, AND IT WOULD BE FRIVOLOUS. If you are gay, and you want to adopt, there are umpteen agencies who will fall all over themselves to get your business so they can self-righteously say, "See, we're progressive. We help gay couples adopt."
None of that is actually about the children. It is all about gay and "progressive" politics. The children are just pawns. They might as well be puppies or statues. The "movement" doesn't care about children or anyone else. It just wants to perpetuate itself.
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Nix
They get an application from a same sex couple, they automatically judge them as unfit because they are not a man and woman. That system to judge, operated by so called Christians is very much hypocritical. Their religion preaches against judgement. They absolutely have a right to make a decision on the family they place the children with, but they won't let it even get that far. They likely throw the application in the trash. If they do-gooders really wanted what was best for the children they would be open to vetting all applicants. Yet if they were force to treat every applicant equally with respect then they would get on that "my religious freedom is being violated" bandwagon. SIT DOWN!
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John Owens
Again, you are inventing this whole scenario. None of this has happened, and yet you think you know what will happen. In your paranoid fantasy, the application is already in the trash and this law hasn't even really taken effect.
The key word in your message here is "FORCE". I'm sure you meant "FORCED" but that's besides the point. You seem to really think that it is good and right and POSSIBLE to FORCE people to do things in which they do not believe. You want a totalitarian enforcement of YOUR beliefs but complain if others want to live by their own.
No one FORCES anyone to be different. No one FORCES anyone to go the Christians seeking to adopt. You want to FORCE them to treat everyone equally. That cannot be done and has never been done in the history of mankind. Muslims don't treat everyone equally. GAY people don't treat everyone equally. Police don't treat everyone equally. Politicians and bankers don't. SOCIAL WORKERS don't. HELL, HOWIE, YOU DON'T! Do you know why? Because we all have preferences. Your argument is ridiculously naïve and you MUST know that. Now, YOU sit down, and think about what I've told you.
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Carol Amina
I agree with you Howie. There are a few reasons I no longer consider myself Christian and do not respect Christian Churches over all.
One reason is the fact that they seem to think they have the right to dictate things that should be left between person and there god.
Sad really.
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Rev paul
Thats why i left my last church i. Used to go to trying to push there hardcore religious beliefs on me im more open minded a bout my beliefs
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Carol Amina
Good for you Rev paul collins! I did the same and just walked away from it all. Seems there are many of us who were wounded in the christian church. Hugs and I am sorry that we have been wounded but see we can stand together agents the territory of those who spread hate. Peace
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Christopher W. Corleone
I'm just curious as to how the LGBT community thinks its ok to adopt kids no matter what anyone thinks their religious beliefs are? I mean I don't discriminate, I love everyone equally, but if it were meant for a man/man or woman/woman couples to have kids outside of what is explained in biblical context and considered natural (man/woman), don't you think that a man or womans body would have been amply created for such an endeavor? In other words, say extra body parts added to help aid in this? And if that were the case then why have a woman or man part of the species to begin with, just keep one or the other with tools to do both jobs. There had to a good reason why the human species was separated to begin with, one per say was to procreate. I mean seriously what if science never came up with the way of making test tube babies or artificial insemination, where would we be as a race of humans on this planet. Just some things to consider.
Like John Owens said, "The fact that this law does NOT SPECIFICALLY mention homosexuality means it is not SPECIFICALLY intended to discriminate against homosexuals. If there is no intent to discriminate and there has been no evidence of discrimination, there is no CASE for discrimination. Case closed."
Its simply better for the kids to understand the true nature of things before they learn to buck up against it. Like was already said, the LGBT community has a heavy enough burden to carry. But nature has always been against those of a similar kind, and nature never gets tired and almost always seems to weed out that which contradicts the natural flow of life and its continued existence, and natures order of life will not be overcome. I do think we should all try to be nice and loving people, and its really not necessary to get all worked up over this.
in the end as another reader stated, "What is sexual immorality anymore? What is perversion? Who cares about marriage and procreation anymore? It’s all about money. I lost faith in people government and law." Yes its all about the money and what can I get that I don't have or the law says I cannot do. Everyone has an argument but who stands to gain from more than anyone? The blood sucking lawyers, so why keep helping them out? It worked out just fine in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and part of the 90's. I say we simply go back to the basics.
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Carol Amina
christopher Corleone, You have every right to think and feel what you wish to. However to say that its better for kids to grow up with parents that are male / female. I do not agree that its better. I just agree its one way to look at a family. Personally I would not want to denie a child two parents no matter there sex.
If it was agents nature for same sex couples to raise kids because of lack of body parts as you say then when a stright couple is barren and not able to bare children why is it not agents nature for them to have kids (or shall we say agents god?) If god wanted them to have kids he would make it so ... right?
That makes no sense at all! adoption of children should be open to any fit (by this I mean person who will love and care for them and there needs) person. Children need love. Enough money to support them is helpful but many of us come from humble homes. Love is the most important part of parenting. Sexuality is last on the list from my view.-
michael gibbs
I agree with your response
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Carol Amina
Thank you Michael Gibbs Peace
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Amber
Unfortunately life just doesn't always work that way. It used to be, up until about 100 or so years ago, that men died in war or at work due to unsafe conditions. Single parent. Also there was a very high level of death in childbirth. Again, single parent. It still happens a lot these days with one or the other parent leaving or passing unexpectedly.
People in both situations could be lucky enough to have family and friends nearby to help support and raise these kids. Not exactly the picture perfect, idealistic view of what's considered the current religious based norm but it is the love and support, and most importantly the stability that is necessary for kids to grow up healthy and happy.
So... with that understanding, why would it be any different if that support comes in the form of same gender parenting especially if the couple are upstanding, law abiding people who pay their bills, maintain stable, loving relationships and do not harm anyone?
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Kirk
This law protects Muslims too in case the hypocritical liberals haven't figured that out yet. If you aren't Muslim, you can't adopt a Muslims' child. It's been that way forever.
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Amber
I don't know where you got your ideas but that isn't a liberal idea. It's a conservative idea that those who adopt children should be the standard male, female joining of the same race as the child. Liberals are who want children to just have a loving home. They are who push for single parent adoptions to those who are loving. They support openness of cross religious and racial adoptions where the adoptive prospects are open and willing to do so fairly. It's the conservatives who wish to separate and segregate most often.
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John Owens
Like "Colored Only" graduations.
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Carol Amina
I agree with you Amber Fry. I dont know any liberals who want to segregate. I dont hear that kind of talk coming from my so called liberal friends. It just seems to be those that attend closed minded Right Wing Churches.
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Ivan
The child has no say about her / his gay adoptive parents. This should not be legal.
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John Owens
I don't understand your comment, besides saying it should not be legal. The legislature passed a law. Do you think it should be legal to compel you to do business with someone whom you find disgusting? Should you be forced to rent a room to a person who is a pig? Should you be forced to allow homeless people to defecate in your back yard? The examples are not precise, but the principle is the same. Think about it. With your brain. Not your brainwashing.
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Nix
The child has no say about her/his straight adoptive parents either. That's makes no point.
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James Henne
Hmm, entirely tactful and grown up response, not inflammatory at all....
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John Owens
I can't believe it wasn't moderated out.
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Howard
No. Alabama is dangerous. It should be about who will be good and caring parents. As a career social worker I have witnessed many "normal" couples (as far as presumed sexual preferences) who were the worst parents one could imagine and should never have had children. At least those who seek out adoption want to be parents and go thru a difficult process.
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John Owens
ALABAMA IS DANGEROUS? Have you ever lived in Alabama? What do you know about Alabama, besides your prejudices? Maybe you watched My Cousin Vinnie or Talladega Nights.
Chicago is dangerous. LA is dangerous. Miami is dangerous. Detroit is dangerous. CLEVELAND is dangerous. You are hysterical.-
Nix
I live in Alabama and Howard is right. Alabama is dangerous from the standpoint of the state government. Look at Roy Moore's actions and words for proof.
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John Owens
Tell me just HOW Roy Moore's actions were DANGEROUS. That's the stupidest thing I've heard since the last clip of Maxine. Apparently, your definition of danger is a LOT different than mine. Mine would mean peril, like of injury or death. Yours is, I don't know, nebulous. I also live in Alabama, have since just before JFK was killed. Never heard of anyone being hurt by a monument, unless they were climbing on it and fell.
You guys are a lot more worried about gay rights than children, and everyone here knows it. Some of them don't care, but it's hypocritical to pretend it's about anything other than gay rights. I have told you all, I am not particularly opposed to same-sex parents. People do that, whether married or not. You guys are just militant about what I consider to be frivolous and somewhat nit-picky things. Why do you think that EVERYONE must bow to your sensitivities? Grow up, for the love of humanity.
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michael gibbs
i have read most all that was written here one thing comes to mind , i get hate from what i have read from the response from the other ministers that have responded shame on you all where is the love for your fellow man . you all will have to meet god in the end and explain your actions here and what you have written. I am pleading with you all show love not hate please before its to late I have been apart of the universal life church for such a long time , and I live in Alabama all my life so I know what going on here . please if you can not show support don't say anything at all .
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Wen
I worked as an adoption secialist in child welfare for 26 yrs. I had the heartache of witnessing the despair of children who drifted in fostercare with no permanence. I also experienced the joy of watching children thrive as their sense of security and belonging became real in their adoptive homes. There is no disputing that there are children who will never have a family. That is the true tragedy! Perhaps our energy could be better spent on breaking down barriers to successfully planting innocent children in loving, stable homes.
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Christopher W. Corleone
Wen stated, "Perhaps our energy could be better spent on breaking down barriers to successfully planting innocent children in loving, stable homes."
Perhaps indeed. But in reality, this problem doesn't stem from or to a home whether it is inhabited by someone of an LGBT, Christian, Liberal, Atheist, or whatever status to place a child in the care of someone who will love them like a parent should. It should be focused on the real problem of kids being given up because of the thoughtless actions of 2 people wanting to have sexual relations, unprotected.
It is this lack of responsibility that put those kids in the present position in the first place, and yet no one is making any attempt at holding those who acted irresponsibly, responsible for their uncaring actions. Because its to easy to give up a child or have an abortion, to shirk responsibility these days. Not saying that this didn't happen before, but is becoming more prevalent as each day passes. Arguments like this might have never needed to go to court and get settled in the first place. But again your right we should be focusing on getting those who would otherwise be lost to the system, out of the system and into a caring loving home environment.
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Carol Amina
Christopher Corleone, You are ignorant of the subject on how children end up in the system and then need to be in a permanent placement.
It happens for many reasons. Parents die, have illness, legal issues, and sadly addiction and or are in some way just plan unfit to parent. Some, many in fact are married. Not all of the children in the system are from bad parents, or unmarried women who "chose to have unprotected sex.
If you had ever worked in that system you would not that it happens in many ways. For that reason we should do all we can in what ever way we can to get these children in homes with people who will love and support them.
As to it being easy to "give a child up or have an abortion" you are not female so you have know way of knowing if its easy to make that choice. Having an abortion is never easy. Losing you child is never easy. These issues are only understood by the women who are walking in those shoes.
As a social worker I would be hard pressed to allow a child to be placed in a home where she might be judged for the choices she needed to make after a rape, or molestation.
Where is the "christian love" where is the forgiveness and grace so many of you talk about but do not give to others?-
Christopher W. Corleone
Carol Amina,
Your ignorant to think I am unaware of the subject of how kids get into the system. I merely touched base on a couple of the issues that are current. For your information I am a product of the system and I don't care how many years of experience you have or others say they have, you will never know until you fill our shoes and experience what we have experienced. Having a look from the outside in is nothing compared to those of us looking from the inside out at all the wonderful things other kids get to have.
As to your comments about, "As to it being easy to “give a child up or have an abortion” you are not female so you have know way of knowing if its easy to make that choice." and to the fact that I'm not a woman so I have no way of knowing, ok you got me cuz I don't plan on getting a sex change anytime soon. However, it takes more than one to make a baby, so its still irresponsible of those individuals that have to go through that because they made bad choices, period. Make good choices and take precautions, but I'm preaching to the choir on that one.
Your right having an abortion is never easy, but if the people were more responsible before they had unprotected sexual encounters, or decided not to use contraception, then a lot of what kids like me face wouldn't have to be. Plus if its so hard to give up a child, then why put oneself through it in the first place. Lets not forget that while all that irresponsibility is going on regardless of the fact its due to (as you state, It happens for many reasons. Parents die, have illness, legal issues, and sadly addiction and or are in some way just plan unfit to parent. Some, many in fact are married. Not all of the children in the system are from bad parents, or unmarried women who “chose to have unprotected sex), that box of contraception or other items still sits on the shelf unused for its intended purpose.
And as a social worker, your on the outside looking in, so your knowledge is still vague, unless you've been in our shoes you will always be on the outside looking in. You stated, "Where is the “christian love” where is the forgiveness and grace so many of you talk about but do not give to others?"
I am Christian and have lots of love and forgiveness to offer and have forgiven those who put me in that position and pray for others, but even more I have for my 4 children. I am also a 20+ yr Vet with tons of experience world wide, seeing all sorts of systems far worse than our own. But to add, with forgiveness you have to want to make a change, if you don't take the time to make a change then it matters not the fact your being loved or forgiven for ones own irresponsibility, because some will still keep doing it over and over because they can and will do it if they can get by with the least amount of accountability.
Until people start being more responsible for their own actions, for instance, like using contraception, or staying off drugs, there will always be this problem. Unlike so many others, I found a way to get an opportunity to do something and have flourished. I thank God and people everyday for every opportunity I get. I am just one story of many, so before you start criticizing people like me, you should get more facts before you start the name calling saying I or we are ignorant of the facts. Lets not forget if you think us Christians ought to show more love and forgiveness then why doesn't everyone else do the same of what they expect of us? Just curious.
Never the less, I have managed with the help of God to dig myself out of the gutter and into a prosperous family life, which includes being a graduate. I will continue to pray for you and everyone else who feels the same as you, including some fellow brothers and sisters who came from the system and even those still in it. I will end with my favorite words from the bible, have a blessed day, yours in Christ~!
A Psalm of David.
The Lord is my shepherd, shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside quiet waters. He restores my soul; He guides me in the paths of righteousness For His name’s sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You have anointed my head with oil; My cup overflows. Surely goodness and lovingkindness will follow me all the days of my life, And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. (Psalm 23)
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John Owens
Nice piece, there, Christopher. Good to hear from someone ACTUALLY affected by the things we discuss here. I myself am not but it could conceivably come to pass for my grandchildren or great-grandchildren. My position is not that homosexual couples should not adopt. I simply have no position on that. It is not for me to say who is fit and who is not, when dealing with hypothetical cases. There seem to be very many on this blog who think that just being homosexual MAKES you qualified to adopt. I think there are a lot of variables in a lot of different cases, and a Christian agency should be ENCOURAGED to find quality homes for adoptees, within the parameters of their principles. If the complainers ACTUALLY cared about the children, they would say, "BRAVO" instead of whining that the children should have gone to same-sex couples.
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Carol Amina
Christopher Corleone
Please dont assume I have not walked directly in the shoes of a child in the "system" I have. That is only one of the many reasons I worked in it. I am a product of that system and had to fight my way up and out.
As to making "bad choices and not using birth control" should a women be at blame because her rapist didnt use a condom? or is it just her fault for being female? To many factors come into play here and there are not simple answers. I am only asking that one keep an open mind to the many possibilities as to why and how kids get lost and that there are also many possibilities for a happier ending to that story.
Congrates on making your way out. Serving this country and having your own kids. I dont wish any harm on you at all and in fact see your passionate about your beliefs. Can you be considerate that we dont agree? is there any love for a person who you do not agree with? Peace -
Christopher W. Corleone
Carol Amina,
I never assumed you did or didn't walk in our shoes, but you gave the impression you had not. I was merely stating what appeared obvious at the time of that from an outsider perspective. I've read a number of your responses and none of them gave up that you have branched out from the system some of us choose to ignore.
I apologize for doing the same, but it didn't strike a cord for me until you responded rather hatefully in my opinion to what I wrote. I'm also glad you got out and have done well for yourself and have decided to give back what you could to help.
Here again your focusing on one aspect in referencing a rape victim, and no of course she cannot blame the rapist for doing that, but at the same time lets look at some facts:
The results of a study conducted explains about rape victims and abortion rates:
The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.
Furthermore, in a 2004 national survey of a representative sample of women who had undergone abortions, 1 percent of the women indicated that they had been victims of rape. In addition, slightly less than half a percent said they became pregnant as a result of incest. At the time of that survey, an estimated 1.3 million women were undergoing abortions annually in the United States, according to the Guttmacher Institute.
The survey thus suggests that each year about 19,500 U.S. abortions are undertaken to end pregnancies that occurred as a result of rape or incest. This is minuscule compared to the alarming rate of abortions that occur outside of rape annually. Considering there is an estimated 321.4 million people in the US as of (2015) and out of that many even if you consider there is about 30% of them are women, and still an est 1.3 million are aborting babies each year and then there is this:
About 135,000 children are adopted in the United States each year. Of non-stepparent adoptions, about 59 percent are from the child welfare (or foster) system, 26 percent are from other countries, and 15 percent are voluntarily relinquished American babies. So we are just touching on statistic about this systemic problem.
But you are right there are too many other factors to consider. However, that still doesn't take away from my point of the majority still being irresponsible of their actions and not utilizing the resources available to them, even when they are free in some areas, yet the rest of us have to bear the burden of the cost of that irresponsibility.
I don't consider myself a Christian as well, but more of a follower of Christ and yes I am passionate about that. I just wish people like yourself would give the majority of us "the other category" a chance at redemption, as opposed to those who call themselves Christians who outwardly blast everyone, that gave you the bad taste in your mouth as you stated in an earlier post. Which in a sense, forces some people similar to you to be angry at people like me for what we believe.
I can be and usually are considerate to those who don't agree ith my choices, even if my beliefs cause me to believe that the words in the Bible I read are the infallible words of Christ. I can always agree to disagree. I have nothing but love for my fellow brother or sister such as you even though you may not agree with me or what I stand for.
As I always stand my ground on scripture, I always say, love the sinner hate the sin, while this isn't spoken directly in the Bible it does have this to say:
Jude 1:22–23 contains a similar understanding:
And have mercy on some, who are doubting; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh. According to this, our teaching should be characterized by mercy for the sinner and a healthy hatred of sin and its effects. Something I strive to do.
I don't really mind what others choose to believe, but I will always be grounded in biblical scripture because to me that is where the truth is despite what others may think of it. Anyone can be gay, straight, atheist or whatever they want it their choice, free will. In the end its all about Christs love and the sacrifice He did for us and what He says we should be doing. If that means to me that others are sinning, well so be it, I will still give my love regardless. I just hope you will give it half a chance and come back to what the heart and soul really needs, and that's the words of Christs love embedded and edified. Congratz to you as well for escaping the system designed to hold us back. Hope God continually blesses everyday for you my friend.
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Christopher W. Corleone
I never assumed you did or didn’t walk in our shoes, but you gave the impression you had not. I was merely stating what appeared obvious at the time of that from an outsider perspective. I’ve read a number of your responses and none of them gave up that you have branched out from the system some of us choose to ignore.
I apologize for doing the same, but it didn’t strike a cord for me until you responded rather hatefully in my opinion to what I wrote. I’m also glad you got out and have done well for yourself and have decided to give back what you could to help.
Here again your focusing on one aspect in referencing a rape victim, and no of course she cannot blame the rapist for doing that, but at the same time lets look at some facts:
The results of a study conducted explains about rape victims and abortion rates:
The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.
Furthermore, in a 2004 national survey of a representative sample of women who had undergone abortions, 1 percent of the women indicated that they had been victims of rape. In addition, slightly less than half a percent said they became pregnant as a result of incest. At the time of that survey, an estimated 1.3 million women were undergoing abortions annually in the United States, according to the Guttmacher Institute.
The survey thus suggests that each year about 19,500 U.S. abortions are undertaken to end pregnancies that occurred as a result of rape or incest. This is minuscule compared to the alarming rate of abortions that occur outside of rape annually. Considering there is an estimated 321.4 million people in the US as of (2015) and out of that many even if you consider there is about 30% of them are women, and still an est 1.3 million are aborting babies each year and then there is this:
About 135,000 children are adopted in the United States each year. Of non-stepparent adoptions, about 59 percent are from the child welfare (or foster) system, 26 percent are from other countries, and 15 percent are voluntarily relinquished American babies. So we are just touching on statistic about this systemic problem.
But you are right there are too many other factors to consider. However, that still doesn’t take away from my point of the majority still being irresponsible of their actions and not utilizing the resources available to them, even when they are free in some areas, yet the rest of us have to bear the burden of the cost of that irresponsibility.
I don’t consider myself to be what people call the modern day Christian, but more of a follower of Christ and yes I am passionate about that. I just wish people like yourself would give the majority of us “the other category” a chance at redemption, as opposed to those who call themselves Christians who outwardly blast everyone, that gave you the bad taste in your mouth as you stated in an earlier post. Which in a sense, forces some people similar to you to be angry at people like me for what we believe.
I can be and usually are considerate to those who don’t agree ith my choices, even if my beliefs cause me to believe that the words in the Bible I read are the infallible words of Christ. I can always agree to disagree. I have nothing but love for my fellow brother or sister such as you even though you may not agree with me or what I stand for.
As I always stand my ground on scripture, I always say, love the sinner hate the sin, while this isn’t spoken directly in the Bible it does have this to say:
Jude 1:22–23 contains a similar understanding:
And have mercy on some, who are doubting; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh. According to this, our teaching should be characterized by mercy for the sinner and a healthy hatred of sin and its effects. Something I strive to do.
I don’t really mind what others choose to believe, but I will always be grounded in biblical scripture because to me that is where the truth is despite what others may think of it. Anyone can be gay, straight, atheist or whatever they want it their choice, free will. In the end its all about Christs love and the sacrifice He did for us and what He says we should be doing. If that means to me that others are sinning, well so be it, I will still give my love regardless. I just hope you will give it half a chance and come back to what the heart and soul really needs, and that’s the words of Christs love embedded and edified. Congratz to you as well for escaping the system designed to hold us back. Hope God continually blesses everyday for you my friend.
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Carol Amina
Wen, like you I worked with children's service and it was heart breaking on so many levels. My heart was filled with joy on a few situations when I was able to witness couples step up and take older children in that were the least likely to find permanent homes. 3 such couples were gay and 2 of them I am still in touch with. Things are not perfect as the children bring with them so much baggage from having been in the system for many years. But non of what is going on has anything to do with parents being gay.
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Wen
A kindred spirit! Nice to meet you Carol.
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Carol Amina
The honor is mine Wen :-) peace be with you and all you love.
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Thom
NO gays are no dangerous then any other person Alabama is just a messed up state
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John Owens
Thomas, are you basing your statement that Alabama is a messed up state on this article, or on gossip, or on the opinions of others, or on actual knowledge of Alabama? I ask, because the article is not actually about the State of Alabama, but a particular law which has JUST been enacted, to protect religious freedom. We have other laws which protect gay people, and still others which protect children. The purpose of law is to protect everyone. Tell me how this law hurts anyone, after you tell me how you know Alabama is a messed up state.
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Nix
No John, Thomas is right. I live here I knowingly admit, Alabama is a messed up state. The heads of our three branches of government were removed from their positions all just recently. That is very messed up leadership and it just trickles down.
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John Owens
The fact that those jerks were removed shows that it is NOT so messed up, Howie. We prosecute and demote the powerful when they screw up. Too bad that doesn't happen as often elsewhere. We have demoted and imprisoned mayors, governors and former governors and heads of lobbies and unions and boards. We are not as messed up as Washington or California.
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Cay Raymond
Yes. It is abbrogation. It is against God's law and it leads little ones into sin.
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Carol Amina
Oh gosh Catherine, you sound so judgmental and hateful. I hope you will find love in your heart for others even though who are not like you.
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John Owens
Was it hateful for Jesus to say, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."? You seem to try to turn any speech which does not agree with you into hate. That in itself is hateful. If we actually teach what our prophets have taught, that is not hateful. It is called trying to do the right thing. There are always people who do not want us to do the right thing, because they love wrong things. We can discuss what is right and wrong, but if every difference of opinion is called hate, that is just an attempt to force your own beliefs on that other person, and seems hateful and oppressive.
I am not hateful. I can be made angry, as anyone else can. I just get so tired of the fake concern for other human beings expressed by some people, when those same people just wish people like me would die quietly. They think if we weren't here, the world would be a better place, but that is because they are too blind or stupid to judge their own beliefs based on fact and history and true science.
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Christopher W. Corleone
John,
Your words struck true and to the point. People that don't see eye to eye with the truth will always turn away from it or try and twist words that Christ spoke of to their benefit, but make it sound like the rest of us are being hateful, demeaning and disrespectful to others. When its the exact opposite in most cases.
To give a scriptural context of this, "Every man’s way is right in his own eyes, But the Lord weighs the hearts. To do righteousness and justice Is desired by the Lord more than sacrifice. Haughty eyes and a proud heart, The lamp of the wicked, is sin. (Proverbs 21:2-4)"
Like you said, there are and always will be people that dislike us trying to do what is right, because they have given in to their worldly desires and think what we say and do is false. As Christians, we do not hate others, Jesus taught us to show our love that He gave us to our fellow brothers and sisters, and hate the sinful act.
When I see a conversation like that I always refer to these 2 verses in scripture to get my thoughts on solid ground:
"and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:30-31)
Have a blessed and wonderful day John, yours in Christ!
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Carol Amina
John once again you want to put all of us in the christian box and under the rules of bible teaching. What is right for you and some others is not always what is right for me and some others. I am just asking that christian's not try to push others to fit in there box labeled the right way according to them.
There is room in this world for all if we just accept that we all have the right to think and feel what is right and true for each of us. I dont think the world would be better without christians. That would rob me of some very dear friends for sure. But only that non christians be allowed to live as we see fit and right.
Yes many "liberal non christians" have fallen to being mean as have many christians. I myself have gotten angry and fed up with feeling as if I am not accepted because I wont adhere to christian morals and rules. I have lashed out and been unkind and at times spiteful. For this I am sorry.
Im just asking that there be room for both sides without name calling and cruelty.-
John Owens
Carol, I DON'T WANT YOU OR ANYONE LIKE YOU IN THE SAME BOX WITH ME. I am just saying that the Christians are honor-bound to try to obey Christ. That was all I was saying. You judge them harshly because they are trying to do as they were taught, whereas you think people should all just do whatever the Hell they want to do and the rest of us should accept them and their works. The contradiction is that you don't accept the Christians but you will preach that we should accept everyone ELSE's behavior with LOVE and stupidity. I didn't call any names, but I will call stupidity what it is. You are being self-righteous in your ATHEISM/AGNOSTICISM. You think you are more forgiving and more kind-hearted than the Christians. That is hogwash. Sorry. Try not be so sanctimonious in your dislike for goodness and wholesomeness.
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Nix
Carol you are correct, Catherine's statement does sound like it comes from dark, judgemental place. John is trying to sound like the king of the debate club. He says yes everyone can have opinions but if you call them out and say that is sounds like judgement and hatefulness then that's your problem because that just your opinion and you are in turn pushing your opinion on them. He wants to defend the ones that clearly speak negative jargon. Yes John everyone has an opinion but opinions that goes against your own religion can be called out. Hypocrisy.
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John Owens
Gosh Howie, for a little I thought you might have some brains, but I guess I was mistaken. Your last comment is nothing but desperately trying to save face, since not your logic has failed, but your position is based on propaganda with no reality behind it has. If you will slowly begin to think and see again, you will learn, and be wiser. You do not address your own contradictions because you like to talk with people who share the same contradictions and try to silence those who point them out. That is no way to evolve into a more intelligent life form. It is DEvolution, not evolution
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Sandy
Although I have gay friends and very much respect their rights, I still feel that in raising a child, a man and a woman should be present in doing so-- I guess it would work if the same-sex couple had a good friend of the opposite sex to be a mother or a father figure to the child as well-- I think that same-sex couples would be better as parents otherwise, because of their open views on life and such--
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Carol Amina
Sandy, my grandsons had wonderful male role models in there lives, as well as female. There parents both female did an excellent job of letting them know that they would be love no matter what there sexuality was going to end up being. We all need exposure to good kind loving people when we are kids.
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Bill Fox
Whether born that way or chose to be homosexual and cannot change, LGBT homosexuals will agree that they are perverted to what is accepted as "normal". Danger is relative to the degree of perversion from normal. Unfortunately, the guinea pigs of the experiment, the children, may be harmed psychologically and/or physically, in the name of political correctness, not based on science, but on emotion. Thankfully, everyone will be held accountable for their conduct in this experiment.
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littlecloud1
I wonder what's worse, same-sex adopted parents; or a "state-run" foster home? For any folks here that have been through the foster home system, you know the answer loud and clear.
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John Owens
I think most everyone here agrees with you, but that was not really the issue with the law. It did not address which was the more desirable option between those two. It actually only addressed the rights of church-run adoption agencies, contrary to the discussion here on the blog.
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Carol Amina
I would have loved to be raised by a loving gay couple! and am glad my grandsons where! the alternative would have been maybe as horrible as what i was raised in. :-(
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littlecloud1
John Owens, the issue with the law is that it institutionalizes an agency in the private sector to make their decisions based solely off of their religious beliefs. The problem here is that these decisions can violate the standards and practices of the industry, in order to uphold subjective beliefs. Science is telling us that, FOR THE CHILDREN, it is more healthy to place them with LGBT families.
You make some pretty sound arguments about how it is an adoption agency's job to be discriminating but what you fail to mention is that the standards of discrimination held by a public agency MUST ALWAYS BE CONDONED FAIRLY.
The same reason it would create an unfair standard to institutionalize the Police Force recruitment or Restaurant patronage (white only establishments were instituted as an actual law...), is the same reason it would be unfair to discriminate based on these factors if you were an adoption agency. Apparent levels of sin is a very, very expensive luxury to be discriminating on, if a child's life and mental health hang in the tow.
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judith
I lived next door to a couple of gay guys and they started with fostering and eventually adopted ,two boys and a girl.. those kids grew up in a loving home. Each kid graduated from high school ,at one point two kids were sent away to school and came back with good experience. The kids were exchange students,and they enjoyed it.,as they got older they knew what there parents were gay,and they didn't care. The kids would say they have two dads . both parents was very much involved in everything those kids did from sports to band .I don't care what your religious or ethnic ,or even your sex is,as long as you have love for a less fortunate kid,open up your heart and see the big picture, you were once a kid to .And who are you to judge.
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Hazel
Oh great. Large amounts of children are wasting away in the foster system and now they're denying LGBTQ people to adopt children who would otherwise age out of the foster system without ever having had a chance at having parents.
There is absolutely NO evidence that kids growing up in an LGBTQ home will end up being LGBTQ. I think the last time it was calculated, roughly 1 and 10 people turn out to be LGBTQ regardless of whether it was a heterosexual or homosexual home they grew up in. I'm in the camp which says a person's sexuality is inborn, not chosen.
If a person wanted to take it further oh, it's the heterosexuals that are bringing all these children into the world to end up in the foster care system. LGBTQ people who are willing to take in these kids and raise them as their own are taking up the slack or the irresponsible heterosexuals who are creating these kids. Why should that be a bad thing?
I don't want to be apart of your church anymore. Your fired.
Apart vs a part. You need to school yourself on the proper usage. Your vs you're. Once again, school yourself. I just don't want you to look like the buffoon - that I think you might be. HA!
Leviticus 18:22&20:13 those that commit this sin. It is detestable to God.
It is always a warming sensation when I read all of the comments by such hypocrites as yourself. Instead of looking for passages to justify your hateful judgmental stance against your fellow man, perhaps you should spend that time following the teachings and examples of Jesus Christ. I have yet to find any passage where Jesus used all of, or any of, his influence to persuade others to discriminate and preach hatred against others.
Not taking sides, but Jesus WAS the God who gave the laws in Leviticus to Moses. Just saying. The big contrast between Yahweh and Jesus is one of perception. He never at any time taught that anyone should disobey the things Yahweh told Moses. That would have qualified Him as a false prophet. Again, Just saying.