How far, exactly, should religious freedom go?
What if the faith in question has been deemed a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, and has also been the subject of investigation by the FBI?
That's the debate stirring after a Michigan appeals court sided with a white supremacist faith group.
The ruling sparked backlash from critics, who are outraged that religious protections are being extended to two prisoners who follow a racist religious movement.
What is Christian Identity?
The recent court ruling concerns members of Christian Identity, a religious ideology that believes God made white people to be superior.
The movement was founded in the 1980s, but has slowly gained prominence in recent years. Described as an “antisemitic, racist theology” by the Southern Poverty Law Center, followers believe “that whites of European descent can be traced back to the ‘Lost Tribes of Israel,’” according to the Anti-Defamation League.
“Many consider Jews to be the Satanic offspring of Eve and the Serpent,” the ADL writes, "while non-whites are ‘mud peoples’ created before Adam and Eve.”
Thus, Christian Identity followers believe that only whites are God’s chosen people, that God intended to keep separate whites and non-whites, and that only the former could enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
One of the core tenets of Christian Identity is the separation of races, which is considered to be a divine command from God. "Race mixing" and homosexuality are both considered punishable by death.
Christian Identity is closely linked with the neo-Nazi and neo-Confederate movements, and Christian Identity "churches" are almost always a hotbed of violence and domestic terrorism. Adherents have been responsible for several high-profile attacks since the 1980s.
So… this is a legitimate church in the eyes of Michigan courts?
Yes. At least for now.
Hate and Faith
Here’s how we got here: two Michigan inmates sued the Corrections Department, hoping for their Christian Identity beliefs to be recognized so that they may formally hold religious services. They argued that denying them the right to express their faith was a blatant violation of their right to freedom of religion.
The Corrections Department argued that recognizing the group would only exacerbate racial tensions in prison, where racially motivated hate and violence is already notorious.
But the court argued that the state failed to make a compelling case that the prisoners wouldn’t pose a safety risk to their fellow prisoners, corrections officials, or themselves.
"Each (prisoner) testified that he was nonviolent and would prevent others from acting aggressively at group services," the court wrote in their 3-0 opinion.
“The department offered silence in response — it did not, for example, present any evidence that plaintiffs or any other inmates who follow Christian Identity are violent,” the opinion explained.
Not Your Average Parishioners
One of the prisoners in question is 43-year-old Scott Perreault, who is serving a life sentence for murder.
Perreault celebrated the win and even invited non-whites to attend upcoming services, where they’d learn all about “Caucasian history and heritage, and Christian heritage.”
“It’s not about anybody being a supremacist. It is truly about being separatist,” he insisted.
Corrections Department officials say they’ll watch the services and the inmates very closely to ensure things stay under control.
However, critics say that a "religion" that has a track record of being a vessel for racism, antisemitism, and homophobia should never have been extended such legal protections in the first place.
What is your reaction? Should religious freedom be extended to all faiths? Where should the line be drawn?
297 comments
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NLilly
All NON-VIOLENT Religions / Religious People In America should be left alone / free! If the People are Peaceful, why seek to harm / destroy them?
The Correctional Officers have to perform their duties in a respectful manner. They accepted that job, so they need to perform the duties of that job / office lawfully, that they signed up for. (It's NOT Always About The Money!) They knew what they were signing on /up for. Let the Prisoners decide what they will / will not participate in.
Everybody Needs JESUS CHRIST! JESUS Taught Us Love, Forgiveness, Compassion, and Peace, out of Purity of Heart and a Mind given over to meditating on/in His Words and following His Example. But we have to have JESUS abiding inside of Us, leading us, in order to live accordingly to His Teachings / Instructions. If any prisoners feel led to teach and to love and to forgive in the Mighty Name of JESUS CHRIST, then allow them to! What's with all the fear?
Only Violent, Destructive People should be dealt with accordingly. Allow the christian prisoners to exercise their 'Christian, Religious Freedoms' and just make sure they aren't physically harming others in the process.
I'm Not a Correctional Officer by Choice! But Thanks Be To GOD ALMIGHTY for HIS Extended Mercies In All Places In The Earth, In JESUS Name! Just Embrace It! AMEN! GOD Bless. XO
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William M Turcotte
The fact is that as far back as 1973 in Skokie Illinois hate has been protected. Just as the Supreme Court striking down Geoerge W Bush's ban on the Westborough Baptist church demonstrations at soldier's funerals. We don't have to like what people say but under the first amendment they have every right to say it. Even if it's complete garbage
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John D. Partin
Takaya Kovani Sweeney, I have also seen those pictures that you mentioned of those terrible things done by some white people to black people, but the people who did those reprehensible things were mentally and spiritually sick, the same as those who beat and scourged Jesus Christ at the pillar and nailed him to a cross and made him say "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do".
I have seen other pictures that you may not have seen of the Holocaust victims in World War II, and men, women, children, babies, and old people shot and hanged and their cremated remains in the ovens, for which many Jews might hate all Germans (though only the Nazis did that to them, not all Germans), as much as you hate all white people, though all white people didn't do those things to your people.
But hate isn't the answer to hate, since that only produces more hate. Nobody is using a flame thrower to put out a house fire because that won't put it out and will only make a bigger fire. It was and is stupidity for those white racists to have done those things to your people or be doing anything against them today, but stupidity for them doesn't suddenly become "great genius" for you because you want to turn it around on them and give them back the same things, but remains stupidity. You fight anything with its opposite, not more of the same. Love is the answer to hate.
I know that that is very hard for you to read and accept, and that you say "we remember what playing nice got us before", but what have returning hate for hate, bigotry for bigotry, and violence for violence really done for us, except to keep this going in the world. They retaliate against your retaliation against them, which makes you retaliate back against them, and so on and on in a vicious circle, until enough people, black and white and all other people decide to get off this merry-go-round and stop returning evil for evil and judging people by their skin color, and return love for hate and overcome evil and darkness with good and light. That was what done in the civil rights march across the bridge in Selma, Alabama, instead of returning their evil to them
The way of returning hate for hate, bigotry for bigotry, and violence for violence is the broad road that most people are walking down into Hell, while the way of fighting stupidity with intelligence and hate with love is the narrow path that leads to life and Heaven and that those on the broad road consider to be "too hard". But Jesus said "Come and learn of me, for my way is easy and my burden is light" and "Come unto me, all you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest".
Christ also was subjected to racism from the Romans, but didn't return hate for their hate, and rather said "Love your enemies and do good to them that hate you and despitefully use and persecute you, that you may be the children of your Father in heaven, for he makes his rain to fall upon the evil and the good and makes his sun to shine upon the just and the unjust".
It is the real enemy of the black people and the white people and all other people (Satan), who wants black and white people to hate and fight each other and who inspired those white people in those pictures to do those reprehensible things to your people because he hates the human race and wants to stir up all the trouble between us that he can.
Why would you go along with the will of something that hates you and laughs at you and all other people that he gets to go along with him, while going against the will of your Heavenly Father, who wants us all to love and forgive each other?!!
Variety is the spice of life, not the curse of life, and we have our racial and other differences for the obvious purpose of broadening, not narrowing, our minds, since if He had wanted us to be narrow minded, He could have arranged for that to happen much more logically, reasonably, and easily by only putting one kind of person in the world and then there would be nothing for us to be broad minded about. So, we are meant to be broad minded and accepting and loving toward people who are different than ourselves.
For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, and against spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. --- Ephesians 6:12
Judge not by the appearance, but judge a righteous judgment. --- John 7:24
I have tried to do the best that I could do to reach out to you and, though someone else might have done it better, it fell to me here, and so I hope that it helped you. God bless you and teach you and open your eyes and heart and shine His light into your mind.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
I hear you but just no.
Everyone is so used to us kowtowing and turning the other cheek.
Walking off the sidewalk so a white can pass.
Looking down when a white is speaking.
Running to opposite corners so whites don’t see us talking and get fg scared.
We only have 2 cheeks to slap and 2 to kick.
They’ve been abused THOROUGHLY by whites.
One way to show seriousness if healing is truly the goal is to start handing out checks.
Fxck all the other noise about holding hands and letting it go.
I know about the Holocaust, I’ve been to the museums and everything.
Holocaust folks received fg apologies AND BIGGGGG checks with more coming this year.
Additionally, no one EVER fg tells them to just get over it.
But when it’s us…that innate hatred kicks in and y’all don’t want us to have SHXT.😂
It’s hilarious to my family when a white comes over to service something, the anger in their countenance when they discover who the homeowners are.😂😂😂
I digress, we can’t even get an ANTI-lynching bill passed on our behalf in the racists country.
Tell me how Asians got an anti-hate bill but not us?!?
I’ll wait.
LOVVVEEEE to see this whitesplanation.
Hell, even ASIANS are questioning how tf that happened.😂😂
Whites have an unreasonable hatred towards our dark skin that has been practically burned into their souls.
They’ll be taking that with them to whatever burning gates they arrive at once the flesh is rendered.
Not my problem to fix, nor my burden to carry.
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John D. Partin
I can see now that you don't just hate white people, but you also hate Jesus Christ and God because they say "Judge not by the appearance, but judge a righteous judgment" and you reply to them "To Hell with that and with you!! You don't know what you are talking about!! Of course, I'm going to judge the white devils by their appearance because that alone tells me and all black people what is in their hearts and what they do is just more confirmation of that!! Go tell other people that BS because we aren't listening to or following you!!".
They say "Forgive or you won't be forgiven" and you reply to them "To Hell with that, too, you stupid 'God'!! They don't deserve forgiveness and only what they do is wrong, never what we do, and we decide who deserves forgiveness, not you!!".
And you go on opposing every other teaching and commandment of God and making up your own "god" to suit yourself and follow you, instead of your following Him, which is even more evidence that the Nation of Islam and all black racists are a Satanic cult!! Thank you for finally coming out with that truthful admission about all of you. We are very happy to read your coming out, at last, with what we knew from the beginning about you!!
And your Satanic cult and the Satanic cult of white racists can have the rest of eternity together in Hell and spend forever with people that you couldn't stand being around at all here on Earth. Won't that be wonderful?!!
If you are unfortunate enough to land in Hell, due to your Satanism, the real devils there will show you how deviltry is really done and you will never mistake the "white devil" for a devil ever again, after they have shown you the difference between them!! If you hate white people enough, they might put you on a plantation for the rest of eternity, under the lash and the worst slavemasters imaginable, just to torment you as much as possible!! It just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?!!
But that is your choice and what you want forever and so be happy with that, if you can, or else change your thinking and try to avoid that. Whatever makes most sense to you. Have a nice life and try to enjoy the daylight, while it lasts!!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"SATAN!"
LOL!
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John D. Partin
Two-Bit Punk!!
LOL!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You liked that did you?
I knew you'd love it - that you'd find it irresistible.
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John D. Partin
What do you mean you're funny? Funny how? What, you're a clown, you're here to amuse me? You know what you said. What makes you funny? What's so f***ing funny about you?!!!
That's for all the other wiseguys and Goodfellas in here, too!!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Now you're down to putting words in my mouth?
I guess it wasn't enough imagining your ultimate boogeyman to try to intimidate and bully people.
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John D. Partin
That was what you were actually saying, but, as usual, didn't know that you were saying. Why would that be any different than always with you?
Asking I liked your admitting that you are a two bit punk (which I knew before you said it) and saying that you knew that I would love it and find it irresistible is your admission that you are a clown and here to amuse me, and I just borrowed the line from Goodfellas, paraphrased to fit you.
Satan isn't imaginary, as you will find out for yourself soon enough.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
The Bible is your God, and Satan is your faithful tool.
You invoke him constantly to try to bully and intimidate others, just as you try to do to me here.
Most boogeymen have the good sense to keep to their zone, but SATAN! is a master stroke, because just THINKING the wrong thought means you have fallen under SATAN'S! power, making him the ultimate boogeyman! There is a certain mentality that finds that irresistible, and make themselves the most faithful toadies.
Tell us again about SATAN'S! power. Go ahead - I know you want to! Tell us all how if we don't think the same things you do, then he OWNS us and will make us SUFFER for ALL ETERNITY! Do your best to intimidate us into submission to your point of view. You know you want to.
And again with the magic spells and wishful thinking.
"What you were actually saying is something you didn't say at all! Alla - Kazam!"
It's another of your little quirks, I can tell.
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John D. Partin
You are again playing games and trying to manipulate the conversation and I told you to go play with yourself and other two-bit punks, not with me. As with the Pharisees before you, you are saying things that you don't even know that you are saying and there is no magic involved in telling you that, but only in your lying to yourself about doing it. Go on with your quirks, as you will, anyway, and as I know that you want to do. The truth will always be put right back on you again, no matter how much you lie to yourself that it is "rubber and glue" Enough pearls cast before swine for you again!!!
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John D. Partin
God is my God and your God, too, even though you don't admit or know it, as usual, and the Bible is His word.
Satan isn't a bully or used as a bully by me against you or anyone else, but is a warning against wrong behavior and thinking and the consequences of that, as you already know, anyway.
You will suffer for disagreeing with God, which you bring on yourself, and not for disagreeing with me, but you already know that and agree with that and are just playing more of your games here.
You are acting as unintelligently as a person who keeps walking into a burning building, despite warnings from many people not to do so, and gets himself burned up and killed. The fires and torments of Hell are no less real than a house fire, just because you can't see them yet, and it is intelligence to listen to the warnings against them and not keep walking into Hell. Reality isn't only limited to what we can experience through our five senses.
It isn't "magic spells" or "wishful thinking" to just tell you what you are actually saying, under all of your usual games and pretensions, and you really appreciate being told the truth about yourself and being freed from all that lying about yourself.
You can't even tell about your own quirks, much less anyone else's, and need someone to tell you the truth about yourself, which you refuse to or can't see.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I know myself just fine JDP, despite your magic spell thinking to the contrary.
And I see you.
You're constantly telling people "God says this" and "God wants that" and I've slowly come to realize you don't worship God - you worship the Bible. You worship a book.
Everything you think about God you get from the Bible. You pay no attention to life, to humanity, to the world, you solely live through what you read in the Bible. The Bible is quite literally your God.
It is a literal dogmatic idolatry - and you are absolutely convinced that what YOU think is the only recourse for connection to God.
This is also why you presume to know everything about everybody else.
Let's see you see that.
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John D. Partin
You want and need a "God" that is only the world and humanity and life in the world because it makes "him" subservient to you and following you, instead of your following God, and means there is "no higher wisdom" than just your and other human "wisdom", which has the world in such a mess!!! Oh yeah, abundant evidence of "great wisdom" (actually, great stupidity!!).
That is why you reject the actual wisdom in the Bible, when it isn't just more worldly people, the same as yourself and others, putting their two cents in to it, because that actual wisdom from God exposes your pitiful foolishness calling itself "wisdom" for what it actually is, and so you belittle the wisdom of the Bible so that it won't expose you, as other ungodly people have done throughout history!!
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death": the Holocaust, Communism, liberal theology, humanism, and all other things that are "right" only in self-centered and self-aggrandizing human "thinking". Once again, this is enough time wasted on you and pearls cast before swine, since you won't listen and can't understand. So, go on, as always, in your delusional "thinking", as you will, anyway.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
It’s a white supremacy cult, not a religion. If we recognize one, where do we draw the line? This is basically the equivalent of Al-Qaeda within Christianity. We cannot allow hate to be given legal recognition.
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Brien
What makes a "religion"? I think it needs defining. I am sure Webster's has something. But the scope of this is who's the judge? Why is one thing a religion, complete with crimes against humanity, and some other belief is not? Is it the size of the collection plate? Try not using the mythical belief to postulate answers. Try using your own thoughts.
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Jennifer A Graves
The law of the land comes first. The law of the land supersedes any religious doctrines. Discrimination based on race violates the Civil Rights act. Separation of Church and State is incredibly important. Lately there have been states passing laws allowing for discrimination based on religious beliefs, which is appalling. For profit Corporations have been given religious immunity, which is preposterous. Even State Officials have been given immunity from the law when acting in their official capacity. This is utterly ridiculous and dangerous. It paves the way for lawlessness. Discrimination is ILLEGAL, unless discrimination is my religious belief? What if my religion believes in rape? Murder? What if I stone my neighbor to death, as is prescribed in the Bible? What if I commit an honor killing if my daughter has premarital sex, as prescribed n the Quran? Do I get a pass because I was acting according to my Faith? No, of course not. We cannot blur these lines, and we are in a place where these lines are being ERASED! It is terrifying.
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Kathy Beverlee Hall
Aboru, Aboye, Abosise, (The sacrifice was accepted) Slavery is over and "Reparations to Black Americans Era Is Here" finally in 2023. Inside California proposal an order has being written up to pay $1.2 million back. We have come a long ways in over (250 some years), and God will choose the most appropriate way for our existence in this objective reality. Love, Light, and Kindness Is still this best way, regardless of prevailing circumstances. Chief Rev. Lady Kathy Beverlee Hall
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Brien
You bring up money, so obviously there are some lose ends that need to be tied up. I have family that died at Pearl harbor so does that mean Japan owes money to all the families that lost someone due to their murder campaign? Do we owe them money for dropping the bomb on them? I know this sounds silly, but so does using tax money to pay reparation to a particular race of people for the ills of history. White man also took, stole, land from Indians and Mexicans. Do these people get money too? The trouble with money for history is never ending. Where do you draw the line and why?
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Kathy Beverlee Hall
Greetings to all! This matter of religion & what is owed to families, etc... is something that African Americans are fighting for because historically facts displays this group was taken from there land and brought to various countries into slavery.
My point is these groups, as well as other groups, if they stand up to the government; should be invited to the same dema & Congress, etc. However Africans should have been left in Africa, then who would everyone be against??
This is why, I say...let freedom of religion in all groups continue...God is love! Unfortunately, I can not change history, nor can you, but to stand as a good representative to understand fairness in these time's or essential. We should all strive to work together and believe your group will prevail to receive there blessings too... Thanks for your reply. Chief Rev. Lady Kathy
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Brien
Oh no, using your reasoning I submit the fact that the entire Catholic church owes the entire planet reparations for crimes against humanity. If you are willing to pay out money for history, you have to go all the way. Peace
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Wouldn't that be a crazy world where everybody actually took responsibility for what they promote?
Sing it brother!
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
I understand your point but y’all really need to do y’all’s studying on who was already here.
The math ain’t mathing with this Out Of Africa bs.
The Census didn’t lie…neither did Walter Plecker, he committed paper genocide on the vast majority of so-called “Black” people.
We are owed a shxt ton and it can happen via the US government paying rent.
As it stands, they’ve been squatting for quite a long time. France was too.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
Yes, Black peoples are THE ONLY group of people who haven’t received ANY compensation.
Literally everyone else has.
These things are EASILY googled.
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Brien
I have no idea what you are trying to say, please read my response above. The Catholic church hasn't paid everybody. And your use of the term "black peoples" is borderline offensive. Peace
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
Naw, your ssa understands it just fine.
Play dumb all you like.
Everyone got a check except Black people.
I AM a Black peoples…I use that terminology because you DEFINITELY won’t understand if I said Indigenous or Copper Colored Persons because it’s painfully OBVIOUS from your previous ignorant comment about reparations that you’ve done ZERO research.
Just on here “bumping ya gums n ain’t sayg s$&@“
If we aren’t due a check…exactly WHY was MLK assassinated when he joined The Poor Peoples Campaign and wrote about our uncashed check?
Whites are comfortable as long as we’re talking pie in the sky/dream bs but as soon as we bring up whats OWED, here y’all come with this bs talking about “I don’t understannnddd” or that bootstraps bs.
Y’all are the BIGGEST suck on the land and economy since you arrived here.
Sucking off natives, eating dead bodies because you didn’t know how to survive, then LYING saying the natives were cannibals so you could clear your conscience after murdering, raping and stealing from us.
My family knows what the real thanksgiving was about.
Again, all easily googled but you have the unmitigated GALL to talk shxt to everyone else.
Telling people to “go home”. 😂😂
Carry y’all’s ssa back to England or wherever cold and gloomy because none of where y’all are with Black/Brown folks is where you belong.
Even other whites in other countries don’t want you back.😂😂
FOH
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Brien
Hmm, repression, hate, bigotry, all fine examples of all mythical beliefs. Now, if I understand the tone of the conversations, the original mythical belief that includes violence and genocide is ok, but you draw the line at racism? Wow.
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Rev. Dr. James Jacob Showers Jr
I'm curious...How many children of God, actually believe that The Christus Jesus was White-'Show of Hands?'....I may be genetically linked to St. Luke the Evangelist, but I am a White Person..Caucasian...How many believe the Apostles were white-'Show of Hands?'.. They're from the middle east, that should be 1 Hint..Have you ever been in a church..In North America, where the iconography is of a white person. The Christus, was not white..I have not been or have I ever been a White Supremecist, Extremist, or any Domestic Terrorist. As a matter of fact, I have a civilian relative, where I am an honorable former employee of the United States Government, who has been accused, 'me' of being on a terrorist watchlist. Where is the Directorate of National Intelligence Terrorist Watchlist Sleeper Cell Number?.. (I use that as an example of the terrorist watchlist from close to 48 US Government Organizations.)...I know, they cannot produce it, because the US Government cannot comment on current investigations!!! (I use that as and example from the FBI Terrorist Watchlist). I find the aspect of those ancients that resided in caves, and were basically homeless. To be the real wayshowers. Not the Pharisees and Sadduces, in their huge cathedrals. Our country is pretty awesome..We were founded on the premises that all were created equal. Regardless of Religion..As long as they as our founders said-'DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT'. For some reason's', I think I read that somewhere...Thank you Brothers and Sisters, for this wonderful commentary. Thank you to the wayshowers that came before!!!
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Doctor Loyal
I'm not surprised. Hate and separatism are just another platform upon which a Religion may be based. Any basis of a "Religion" can be a consistent doctrine that attracts people and convinces them of their mental or physical superiority. If that basis is a sincere belief, who are we to criticize?
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Brien
Not can be based, but rather has been based. All the major religions, which also drags in all the splinter religions. I will concede to you that there may be, somewhere on our globe, the existence of a truly peaceful religion. But I have not seen it. The notion of a mythical supreme being that controls the .. everything .. kind of looks fear based to me. Bow down or go to a dark place... seems rooted in fear to me. Do you know of a religion that does not threaten?
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Russel A. Kester
It's their religion and the state cannot deny them their right to practice it. I don't put much weight to what the Southern Poverty Law Center or the other organizations cited have to say in the way of characterizing these two guys beliefs. I would be interested in statements from its adherents to better understand Christian Identity's beliefs and why they believe them.
Is it possible that our government has forced different people together before they were ready? San Francisco and other cities had places like Little Italy were Italians lived and worked with other Italians. Over time the younger generations integrated successfully into the surrounding, larger society and these places really are nothing more tourist places and exist as little Italies in name only.
So, they are allowed their beliefs, even if we find them abhorrent, and, in time, their great-grandchildren will not hold such beliefs.
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Brien
Again it is called PRISON not vacation club. Why are criminals allowed to have any say? Society has removed their rights, hence they are incarcerated.
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Karen M Butler
Sounds like these prisoners, that are acting like 11 yr. olds,are just testing their limits. If they can be granted this little freedom, they'll try for something else. They're prisoners for murder and want rights? What about the rights that were taken away from the people they killed? They had a right to live and were snuffed out. Why are prisoners getting any rights?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Karen M Butler I agree with you. Prisons, our country and the world would be a much better place without religion.
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John D. Partin
Religion isn't only the wrong things done in the name of Christ, which you want to get rid of all of it for, indiscriminately, and which aren't even those people's following Christ's teachings and example and so shouldn't be blamed on Christianity, but is Christian hospitals, Catholic Charities and social service organizations, universities, and groups and individuals helping other people.
You would throw all of that out and the baby with the bathwater by your indiscriminate throwing away of Christianity, and the worldly people that you would be left with aren't going to care about any of those things, which is why the Church started doing those things.
Think about what you are saying and its implications before you just come out unthinkingly with a comment. Jesus talked about the bad people who would do wrong things in his name in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares and said that they should be endured and not plucked out early so as to not throw out the wheat or good people, too, but would be plucked out at the end and tossed into the fire to burn.
He also spoke about them when he said "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of my father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day 'Lord, Lord, did we not cast out devils in your name, and preach in your name, and do many wonderful things in your name?' and then I will declare to them 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of iniquity'".
Satan can appear as an angel of light, and so it is not surprising that his agents can appear as ministers of righteousness.
By their fruits you will know them.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
This. This is why all religious people are delusional. It’s simply a matter of degree.
1:45 https://youtu.be/-K8Q_2zQMmc
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John D. Partin
Doing evil "in the name of Christ" isn't the same thing at all or only "different by degree" from doing good in the name of Christ, and that is more evidence (if any more were needed) of your being delusional.
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Maria Elisa Koch
I thought that Christ said, "love one another" Not only certain races? Praying together as one, not separate, black, white and other non- whites. If the law says that they can do this, they're wrong, where is the love for each other here? Saying that you are superior then someone else is wrong. My church does the sign of peace, I shake everyone's' hand, not certain one, where is the love if you don't do this? The greatest commandment is love one another not just Whites.
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Jose Silva
Every faith strives to state that their followers are those ordained by their creator as the superior chosen people. Several of them are done by or started as ethnicity (Judaism ), while others strive to grown beyond their ethnic borders.
Provided that the faith does not espouse ethnic cleansing, I see this as nothing different from any other modern faith, several of which have much darker and sinister acts on their hands.
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Paul Edward Nunis
Old news... courts ruled in favor of Wodinism for prison gangs long ago.
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Charles Webster
In the U.S. religious freedom should be extended to all religion. We are asked to "coexist" with Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and a litany (pun intended) of other religious beliefs or other belief systems, but once someone is offended by a religious group that does not meet our litmus test we want to take its right to exist? Islam and Judaism are fundamentally flawed due to its structure that forces women into sub-servient roles. Most Christian religions cannot coexist with other Christian religions because they each have the arrogant belief that theirs is the only true religion recognized by God. If this Christian religion should be condemned why not the AME church that focuses on black men, women and children's? Where do we draw the line? By today's standards, yesterday's standards, or the standards of the future? Islam calls for the killing of non-believers. Judaism demands segregation from non-Jews -- the goyum. Islam demands the same segregation. If we open our mind and think about religion we will all recognize that despite the words of fellowship and coexistence philosophies, religious can be the great segregator. So we must allow all voices until we can learn to condemn those who cannot meet our standards. See where this is going? If you want free speech you are going to have to sit through the speech of someone whose words boil your blood and turn your stomach. There are clergy throughout the world who preach hatred. Why condemn those preachers and their religions? As long as we protect the hate speech of Rev. Farrakhan, Rev. Wright, Rabbis of the Hassidic Jews, Muslim Clerics who demand blood for Allah, as long as we project the hate speech of one we must protect the hate speech of all It's called freedom of speech for a reason: You have the freedom to listen or to not listen. But they have the right to speak whether you like it or not.
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Russel A. Kester
Really good post, Charles. Thank you.
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Guy Sutherland McLaren
Today's middle of the road group is tomorrpws hate group. Stop trying to prescribe waht others may believe and not. I like to know where the nutters and assh()les are. Forcing them into dark corners doesn't stop them. Ask the erstwhile National party in South Africa how censorship and bannbing worked for them.
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Sherri Tawanda Murray
This is not what we expect from people, however we must accept the facts. They are due their belief. If you seve under the authority of God you can rest assured the ending for us all shall show those with their belief who is the one true God. The timing for them will provide the truth. As Christians may we remain in tact with our lights on that our belifes align with God, we arent to brawl with others but led so those who watch see God displayed.
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Richard Lee Cornell
What ever happen to 501 (c) (3) only then when the IRS approves you then your a religion, Other wise you are poop in the mud.
The IRS see our "After Life" (36-4379249) as a religion. While you may not, your opinons are your opinions it is the IRS that see the religion and their opinions that counts. If these two thing that they have a religion it is just if they worship a potted plant, it means little to anyone else. It is not a judge that makes a religion a religion it is the IRS.
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Russel A. Kester
Richard, I think your wrong about this. An organization can be a church or nonprofit without having to file with the IRS. But its income might be taxable if it doesn't. Any IRS experts here can correct me if I'm wrong. Wicca is acknowledged as a religion even though it practitioners (members?) do not file for 501 (c) (3) status. The IRS only acknowledges those who do file and meet it's criteria, so the religion comes first, the IRS just blessed it's tax exempt status.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Why is it Christian White men mostly in the US are the ones who are always worshiping white supremacy when they are the minority in the world’s population?
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
It must be intoxicating to be told you’re better than someone else simply because you were born with less melanin hormone?
I don’t understand it either, I’m just guessing because the skin color seems to be the major hang-up for them.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@ Takaya Kovani Sweeney Could we call it a white inferiority complex? Remember in the beginning we were all created black. It was the whites who lost their blackness and are now white. So now that they are white they have to say and demand they are better than everyone else. And I guess in God’s eye’s when he made Black Adam and Black Eve and said everything was good. He now sees Whites as not good and not perfect which is why they feel inferior.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
I’ve had this theory.
The same reason they’re hell-bent on tearing up the earth.
I’d be pissed too if I knew that the Earth wasn’t made for me and is ACTIVELY trying to remove me from it.😂 Look at who all the animals are taking chunks out of…it ain’t us.😂
Google boiling skin in the sun if you haven’t seen it already…also check out the video of whites wearing sunscreen.
It’s gross, they’re literally putting on invisible blackface. 🤢
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Russel A. Kester
These last couple of posts between you and Douglas don't just sound racist, they are mean spirited. But given your harsh comments and theory of how whites came to be, I'll borrow a joke from our feminist friends who tease that God looked at Adam and said that he could improve on that which he did with Eve. And he did the same with the races as you have theorized. :-p. Life is a mirror that reflects back to you what you present to it.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Does discussion you wouldn't speak bother you RAK?
I wonder why.
https://www.theroot.com/why-white-people-hate-critical-race-theory-explained-1846578811
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Russel A. Kester
You've asked a compound question. It assumed that I have things I would write but not say. Let's clear that up. I say or write what I think. Sometimes I say some good things. Sometimes not. Sometimes I'm right. Sometimes not. When I am in the wrong, I hope to see it and correct it as quickly as possible. I hope that one day, Takaya person will understand how damaging her comments and rants are, not just to others, but to herself. If you agree with her statements, then I have the same hope for you. One of the biggest blessings of being gay is that I have slept with and become friends with men of every conceivable type or configuration. And they are all wonder. Want to solve the race issues? Be gay because we value d*ck above all this nonsense.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I applaud your gayness RAK, but being gay is no guarantee of anything else.
I have a gay uncle who is a devout racist, who doesn't believe in "mixed marriages". Does that mean all gays are racist? Of course not - unless they believe racist things. Being gay and being racist are two different things. Being gay affects oneself, being racist affects others.
There are popular groups who firmly believe the way to end racism is to just not talk about it. They have been busy rewriting history for the last 30 years and tend to be the same people who believe the Civil War was fought over "states rights" and discrimination should be everybody's right. Do you truly not see how 'not talking' about racism favors them? Takaya does. She has a front row seat that it sounds like you will never see.
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John D. Partin
It is wrong for any white supremacists to feel "superior" to black or any other people because of skin color or really for any reason, but why then do black supremacists in the N.O. I. repeat that same wrong and feel "superior" to white people because of their black skin? Two wrongs don't make a right and the answer to their sin isn't just to come back at them with the same sin against them and make excuses for it.
It is idolatry for them or the N.O.I. or any group or individuals to put their wills above the will of God for us to all love and forgive each other, so that hatred and unforgiveness can be called "holy" and God made to follow us, instead of our following Him.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
I don’t study NOI, so I can’t say exactly but what I gleaned from the speeches is white inferiority via inherited watered down genetics.
I can say historically that if whites didn’t have guns there is absolutely NO WAY they would’ve been able to overtake the indigenous populations.
To this day, most whites need unfair advantages in every way to “succeed”. If you can call it success after holding everyone else back for centuries until you feel up to par enough to let them join in.😂
IP’s globally educated whites from caves and whites used that knowledge against us and grew jealous and saw that their skin was literally being bred out and that’s when the murdering in certain areas began.
Instead of just living peacefully and accepting the skin color changes, the cave brain kicked in and here we are.
I will say, I think the world will be better off mixed and I think whites will be better off with dark skinned people in their bloodlines because then they can stop this stupid skin color crap that they started.
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John D. Partin
Takaya, how will black and white people get together for sexual intermingling and producing children when they are hating each other or just black people are hating white people? That is an obvious contradiction. First, get rid of the hate and bigotry, as God wants us to do and put His will above your will and everyone's will, and then this intermingling can happen. The intermingling first while holding on to the hate and bigotry and unforgiveness is putting the cart before the horse and won't work.
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Russel A. Kester
Takaya, at times - okay most of the time, your views strike me as abhorrent and racist. If you think that white blood lines would be improved by mixing, then the same would be true for black ones. For, as you pointed out, it was whites who developed the superior fire power in times of physical conflict instead of relying on brute force. Using ones brains instead of bronze is considered an evolvement of the species. But you might be right about one thing, given enough time all races might well be melted into one homogeneous race that is neither black nor white. I'm thinking more like a mix of Asian and Latino. Until then, however, this nonsense you disseminate isn't good for anyone.
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Arnold Dale Keen
Free Speech means exactly that, Free Speech. The second you censor speech because you don't beleive it or it offends you, it is no long free speech. Same goes for religion. Some people don't believe in God, should we stop the usage of that word? If someone offends me with their words I tune them out. I have the freedom to do that. I also have the freedom to publish, or speak, words that refute their claims, just as it is happening in this forum. Controlling speech or religion is actually trying to control thoughts. Are we trying to stop everyone from thinking differently than we may be thinking? There is a fantastic book that perfectly describes thought control. It is called 1984. I would rather be subjected to speech that offends me than have my thoughts controlled anyday. If it hurts you too much, try the Serenity Prayer. It works for many people. If the word God is repulsive to you, feel free to substitute any other word you like. That's called free speech and religious freedom. Enjoy it will you have it.
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Minister Raydeen
Well Bible Scholars, if you have read the books of the Scriptures, The only thing white was leprous ,they were brown and black. Not putting a Color on nothing, look for yourself. Jesus ask us, not to make a image of him, but we did and still do, he said it for a reason. he just wants us to unify and come back to him
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
That’s too much truth and wisdom for some that comment on here.
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Amber M. Castleman
Hatred should never be protected.
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Lionheart
I’ve always hated Brussel Sprouts. 🤮
🦁❤️
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Russel A. Kester
Amber, so wrong. If we are to be free we must protect the speech we find abhorrent. However, those who do propagate hate speech cannot cry foul when they are challenged on it. You know, the way does.
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Rev. Rory
I'm going to start a religion where all people with blue eyes are evil and must be defeated to save my place in heaven. Then I will kill someone with blue eyes and go to prison. Once I am in prison, I will sue to hold services and preach against the blue eyed devils. I will write an inspired bible for my followers and go all the way to the Supreme Court to defend my right to practice my anti-blue eye religion. I will fight against the people in the anti-brown eye religion and try to start an eye color war. I will encourage followers to preach and to get elected to public office to defend the way of life of the anti-blue eyed citizens. We will start well funded organizations to establish like minded people in positions of power and as judges in the courts. Some blue eyed people will wear brown contact lenses to blend in, as the anti-blue eye religious followers are well armed. We will seek them out and expose them for who they really are. Some corporations, like Target, will put displays of items recognizing the blue eyed devils, but we will trash them and try to get people to stop shopping at Target. Target supports blue-eyes and that is against our bible. It is blasphemy.
Ridiculous, isn't it?
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Brien
So are the rest of organized religions. That scenario fits ALL of them.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Spot on!
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Salmons Lee David
Whites are far superior to other races. Prisons allow black racists to worship their fake gods. Example or the mores and black muslims two black prison gangs that pretend to be religious.
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Brien
Finally a racist response. You folkes don't get out much anymore. The world is moving beyond you, go back inside.
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Rebecca McGough
Hate has no place in any religion. nowhere in the bible does it say that God, Jesus, or the holy spirit is any skin color! This is a very dangerous practice and must be stopped.
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Ck Rardin
It is so sad and practically criminal to USE GOD as an excuse to perpetrate so many evils in the world! This is not God, this is not Jesus. Jesus had compassion in his heart for all peoples, and if history is correct, he sacrificed his life to those who would not accept his love and purity of faith. It seems to be that violence takes root in the hearts of so many and that was NEVER Jesus’ message. In order to survive in these current world situations it requires that we look deep into our souls and find the humanity that always exists within. Perhaps it is so deep that we think we cannot access that burning LOVE for each other. Even if it is deep, it’s within our souls and therefore reachable as we can reach every grace within us. It is essential to our survival to pull that Love to the surface and spread it around with the bright, consoling, and supportive energy that LOVE essentially carries with it. We must do better to honor God and Jesus and follow their real intentions to unite us ALL in love. It is for this I pray every day so please join me in that prayer. We need to take God out of evil and let God’s true love permeate all citizens of this planet. Definitely stop preaching evil in Gods name as that is the most serious sin that we can commit as a society!
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Russel A. Kester
Nice post, Ck.
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Steven Ferrell
They allow all other religions in the system, they must allow this one jo matter how offensive it may be to some.
There are those that find Islam, Jewish faith, witchcraft, etc. offensive, so do you ban all religions in prison because someone is offended?-
Brien
Yes. It is PRISON. You do understand the concept of prison? It is not supposed to be warm and fuzzy. It is supposed to be punishment for crimes. At least that was the concept.
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Keith
These white supremacy groups have it all wrong. This is a clip of what they believe:
“Thus, Christian Identity followers believe that only whites are God’s chosen people, that God intended to keep separate whites and non-whites, and that only the former could enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”
These people should study the history of the people who lived during biblical times. These people were from the Middle East. “According to the Bible, Jesus was a Jew, a.k.a., a Hebrew or Israelite. Jesus lived in the Middle East and was of Semitic descent. As a result, He very likely would have had light- to medium-brown skin, brown eyes, and dark-brown to black hair. While Middle Easterners occasionally have light skin, comparable to that of Europeans, such skin tones are rare in that part of the world. Was Jesus white? The answer is that He was very likely not white.
So, if Jesus likely was not white, why is He so often portrayed that way? If you examine artists’ portrayals of Jesus from around the world, you find that they often portray Jesus in a way similar to what people look like in that particular culture. Europeans portray Jesus as a European. Africans paint Jesus as an African. Asians illustrate Jesus in a way that makes Him look Asian. People prefer to picture Jesus as looking somewhat like them, or at least like people they are familiar with.
Is it wrong to do this? Not necessarily. As long as we do not allow our preferred image of Jesus to become an idol, there is nothing in the Bible that speaks against imagining Jesus looking a certain way. Jesus is the Savior for “all nations” (Matthew 28:19; Galatians 3:8). No matter a person’s skin color, race, ethnicity, or nationality, he or she can experience forgiveness of sin and reconciliation with God through the crucified and risen Christ. The love of Jesus transcends skin color. Having no physical description of Jesus, people naturally imagine the Son of Man to be like themselves.
So, we should not be dogmatic in our preferred image of Jesus. The fact that the Bible nowhere gives a physical description should serve as a caution against arrogance and presumption on this subject. What Jesus looked like does not really matter. His physical appearance has absolutely nothing to do with His being the Savior of the world (John 3:16).” With this being said there should not be a supreme race. If God made all of us in his own image then all races should be equal and no race should be supreme over another.
Blessings, Rev. Keith
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Arnold Dale Keen
I agree with you except for one thing, races. There is only one race, the Human Race. We just come in different sizes, shapes, and color. Scientists have been saying this for some time. Once you get past the skin, we all all the same, Human.
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Brien
"These white supremacy groups have it all wrong." Wow, really? And this entire time I thought they were misunderstood. Thank you for enlightening me. Now it is clear to me. A racist religion calling white supremacists racist. Now this is getting a bit confusing. Again, using a religion based on fear and genocide as a guide post to judge others is kind of stupid.
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Rev. Peter
Religion has often been a pretext to accomplish a financial, political, or nationalistic end -- and to oppose others.
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Rev. Peter
If religion can be defined to mean anything then it means nothing. After the Supreme Court's web designer decision, you can imagine that religions are being formed as we speak to oppose Blacks, gays, women who wear pants, women who vote, women who preach, etc.
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Nancy Richards-Marcus
The Rainbow means encompassing everyone, including racists, bigots and conservatives. Imagine how frightened someone is to have such an extreme opinion, let them in, be kind and find something to love about them. Maybe then we might experience how silly we all are, thats something we most certainly have in common. There are laws to protect individuals from each other other wise.
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Brien
The rainbow 🌈 is a refraction of light waves caused by solar light being dispersed by rain or other water drops in the atmosphere. The only thing that represents hate on this planet is MANKIND. The only thing that can get rid of hate is MANKIND.
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Karen Rosa Coleman
HATE is "mitigated" by the GOD of Teman, the GOD of the southern desert, the GOD of Pure Love... HE intervenes regularly. To those who look to HIM, yet don't understand HIS principles of equity, HE has HIS HOLY SPIRIT make difficult to understand things happen to them, until they get it. That GOD is the GOD of everyone! No one stands out better than the other simply because of how they look. All are on an even playing field until... until we look up, with compassion, with thanksgiving, and with genuine sorrow for our misunderstandings and errant ways. - - HE allows these folks to continue in their misunderstood thoughts until HE, THE MASTER deals with them in HIS very own loving way. I never worry about them at all! - - We all will be separated into two groups. Those who the GREAT KING saves, by HIS righteousness, and those who do not get saved. May HE bless all of you there with HIS abundant peace! The ordinations you all grant, free those of us to serve, for whom service to ALMIGHTY GOD is deeply implanted in our very souls. My march to ministry may be slow, but GOD is already showing me several area HE wants me to work in. HalleluJAH! and praise be the MOST HIGH KING!!! Also, may YESHUA, our compassionate intercessor also be blessed abundantly!!! Thank you GOD for your beautiful salvation plan!
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Brien
What plan was that? It must've went to my spam folder 📁.
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Pastor Jim
You wanna stop racism? Stop talking about it.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
That's a common white supremacist trope.
White supremacists are very comfortable with the implicit privileges and prejudices of society, and don't want them to go away - and talking about them shines a light on them that they don't want.
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Pastor Jim
You are obviously ignorant about the racism and the principles to overcome it. We are all human beings first.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Fragility
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Pastor Jim
You use Wikipedia as a source? Seriously?! Hey, I'm also a scientific research journalist and you cite Wikipedia to me? You know it is far better to keep you mouth shut and have people believe you are ignorant, rather than open it espousing such drivel as above and prove it.
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Pastor Jim
Check this url out and see which source projects more credibility.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MpnpIhqSLto
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You lecture me about Wikipedia - and give YouTube as a source?
'Nuff said.
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Pastor Jim
You're gonna have to do better than that. Lol Common sense and truth stands the test of time.
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Michael Hunt
Maybe work on your common sense and reexamine just how true your "truth" is.
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Pastor Jim
I have, for seventy-plus years. So, who's truth and common sense are you gonna trust... Someone who has lived and contributed to it, or someone who is still experiencing it anew?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
What cracks me up lol about using Wikipedia lol is how whenever I do I never get a reply about my point or the fact I am presenting lol instead they ALWAY LOL sidestep the issue and lol bring out their knee-jerk right-wing propensity lol and attack the source.
Let's get back on track.
https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/a-sociologist-examines-the-white-fragility-that-prevents-white-americans-from-confronting-racism
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
I always tell them:
Facts and Evidence not Fear and Emotion…They often hate that.
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Pastor Jim
So, you completely dismiss the conclusions of a very respected and knowledgeable individual (Morgan Freeman) based on an opinion of the messenger (YouTube)? You truly must be either afflicted by by some kinda special ignorance or trying your best to cling to s narrative that cannot be supported by fact, truth, or recorded history and was created by a writer who has no known expertise on the subject. Go forth and multiply, my friend... but not in my neighborhood.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You are the one endorsing revisionist history.
Oh but you have two black people that agree with you? One of whom is an accomplished actor and celebrity? :o
You're delusional.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
They like to find those “exceptional Blacks”…the ones who used to ask, “ Boss? Is WE sick?”😂😂
There will always be a token trying to kiss white ssa because they think they’ve got something to gain.
Not realizing they’ll get swept right on up into whatever bs whites have cooked up whenever it suits them.
What was that saying? “They always break their toys when they’re done with them”…a la Stacey Dash and countless others.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
They like to find those “exceptional Blacks”…the ones who used to ask, “ Boss? Is WE sick?”😂😂
There will always be a token trying to kiss white ssa because they think they’ve got something to gain.
Not realizing they’ll get swept right on up into whatever bs whites have cooked up whenever it suits them.
What was that saying? “They always break their toys when they’re done with them”…a la Stacey Dash and countless others.
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Pastor Jim
Lol. I've grown to believe that you don't even believe your own BS. Is this some sort of liberal or political game you are playing? No matter, nothing is being served here. I definitely have bigger and better things to do than to engage such racial drivel.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
So you have no point here, other than how little you care?
EGO.
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Pastor Jim
Lol
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Pastor Jim
You wanna stop racism? Stop talking about it.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
It’s not that simple because people can still see and they use that to discriminate.
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John D. Partin
Since you are the apologist for the Nation of Islam, perhaps, you can explain why their objective is, unrealistically and unreasonably, to take part of this country for their own separate land, though they must know that no Governors of any states are going to just hand their states over to them and tell the people living there "You will have to go find somewhere else to live because this is going to be their country now"?!!
And they don't have the force of arms and tanks and bombers and armies to just march in and take over those states. Besides, which they would be screwing over other black people, who don't want to be part of their imaginary country and prefer it here in America even with all of our problems to some dictatorship, like under the war lords in African countries, or in a cult compound like Jonestown in Guyana under Jim Jones or the Branch Davidians under David Koresh in Waco, Texas.
All black people here and other people here and around the world were protesting against apartheid in South Africa when that was their policy, but apartheid is what the N.O.I. wants for America. So, how is that going to work any better here than it did in South Africa or can anywhere?
Because the solution to racial problems isn't separating from each other, so that we never have to deal with and solve those problems (as God wills and on His schedule, not ours), and just keep putting off dealing with those problems, so that our descendants thousands of years from now will be bothered by these problems that we refused to solve. That isn't our being responsible and caring toward them.
Black and white people aren't natural enemies or even black and white babies couldn't be put side without their immediately starting to hit and scream at each other. Black and white children only become hateful to each other as their heads are filled with that garbage from supposedly "wiser adults" (actually, far more stupid "adults"), so that they can pass that hate on to their children, and so on, and so on...
Nothing is natural to people that has to be indoctrinated into them, since if children will figure out the process of eating or urination or defecation or sleeping if nothing is said to them about it, though they will need to be taught manners about those things. Racism is part of man's fallen nature and so a distortion of nature. Mongooses and cobras are naturally enemies, since they instantly attack each other on sight, without ever having done anything against each other before, but black and white people aren't naturally enemies.
So, I'll be looking forward to reading your explanation for the Nation of Islam's objective for their own country.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
LMFAO😂😂
However you need to label it dude.😂
I speak truth and don’t care about your feefee’s.
Hatred and fear of the other is definitely taught.
Black and Brown people didn’t start this crap.
You don’t have to whitesplain to us that different skin colors aren’t a source of fear.
You need to go preach that mess to your white counterparts. 😂
Y’all be killin me😂😂😂☠️
What you’re asking is for Black peoples in particular…which is fg ironic that we’re THE ONLY group you and white governments have an issue with, which speaks VOLUMES by the way…to let our guards down, AGAIN, so whites can continue the various assaults.
Again, we say, “NO THANKS!”
NOI is a defense mechanism, I WISH it had been established during all of those white invasions, murders, thefts and destroying of Black affluent towns when we were just peaceably minding our own fg business.
Just like the Black Panther Party, NOI is a DEFENSE group against white “supremacy”.
Only a stuck pig hollers, so I take it you and all of the other whites in these comments wishing Blacks would let you keep harming us are wallowing in the mud.
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Russel A. Kester
Takaya, you do not come across as a nice person. Do your religious beliefs actually support or foster the things you're saying or do you compartmentalize them? It's truly sad to see hate and vitriolic posts. Disagree. Sure. Vicious and racial attacks. Not cool.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
If TKS is angry, I completely understand it.
You obviously want it to go away. It is the center of white fragility.
Conservatives LOVE harping on 'personal responsibility', but whenever they speak about it it's always somebody else's.
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John D. Partin
Takaya, when you have finished maniacally LYFAO, perhaps, you can finally give an answer as to how the N.O.I. is going to practically get that separate nation to happen when no Governors are going to give their states to them for that imaginary "country" and screw over the rest of the people in their states (including black people) and they don't have the force of arms to just walk into those states and take them. So, how is their "nation" going to happen?
Their racism and yours make all of you have delusions of grandeur and dream up these unrealistic fantasies of yours, to try to overcompensate for your offended sense of justice and dignity, and make you no different than the Nazis with their plan for their own "empire", which ended in destruction for them, or the Southern Confederate whites, who also thought that they would take part of this country for themselves, but all that they accomplished was to get a lot of southerners and northerners killed and to be defeated!! And the same will happen to the N.O.I. and any other black racists who join with them in trying to take that "nation" by force!!
If you are correct in your view that white people always care more about and do more for other white people than they ever do for black people and we didn't let the Confederates take part of this country for themselves, but fought a war to stop them, then we won't let any black racists take part of this country for themselves, either, and will fight a war to stop them, which they really don't want and can't handle!!!
That is what this idiocy of keeping this racist bs going is really leading towards (a race war) because neither you nor white racists will forgive or ask for forgiveness or back down an inch, considering it "weakness"!! That is where the real enemy of the black people and white people and everyone else (Satan) is leading us, down to our destruction and laughing at us all while he does it, hating us and thinking of those who listen to him and follow him as fools!!!
That is the biggest picture, which neither you nor white racists see or understand, and think that it is just you who are coming up with all of this hate and unforgiveness and bigotry, and not being able to see that you are being led in this by something beyond yourselves that hates you and wants the worst for you!!
Why aren't you as violent in your hatred of him as you are against those whom he manipulates against you, the same as he manipulates you against them, while he LHFAO about all of us?!! If a Mafia boss sends a hit man out to kill you and you, somehow, get the upper hand and kill the hit man, your problems aren't over because that boss will keep sending guys out to get you until he does. That is our situation with Satan, who sends people against us and tries to stir up all the problems between us that he can. Ignoring him doesn't make him go away. Laughing at him doesn't make him go away. Calling him "fictional and imaginary" doesn't make him go away because he doesn't give a flying rodent's behind what you or anyone thinks about him, as long as you continue to follow his suggestions and do what he tells you to do and think.
In fact, he works much better in the dark when people don't believe in him and laugh at him because, then, they don't take precautions against him or defend themselves against him, which is just how he likes it!! You don't want to be defenseless against white people's attacks on you, but don't mind leaving yourself wide open to Satan's attacks on you, who is a worse enemy to you than any white people ever thought about being, and keeps you stuck in racist "thinking" and hatred and bigotry!!
You can't see that because you are stuck in the middle of it and can't see beyond it. It is this concentrating only on this world, and refusing to forgive, and judging by the appearance, and only caring about what you want that cause me and other correctly assessing people to call you a Satanist because that is what they do and how they "think". "Hate your enemy with a whole heart" is right in The Satanic Bible and that is what you are doing! Actions speak louder than any any words or denials from you.
As for reparations for slavery or discrimination, get that directly from those who did that to you or your families or their descendants, if you can, but other people who weren't directly involved in all that or their descendants don't owe you anything. Do you pay for other people's wrongdoing? If not, why do you want that done for you? Lynching hasn't had laws enacted against it because we live in a fallen world, where laws against many wrong things aren't being enacted. We are all quick to sin and slow to repent and repair the wrong that has been done. If you want that to change, get people to renew and regenerate their hearts and souls because it won't happen until then, which is putting the cart before the horse. Enough pearls cast again before swine!
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John D. Partin
The other side of that biggest picture that you and white racists and many other people are ignoring, than the will of Satan for us, who hates all of us indiscriminately, is the will of our loving God, Who loves all of us indiscriminately and because of that doesn't want us to be hating each other, since that hurts all of us.
It is idolatry to put our wills above the will of God and do what we want (hating, lusting, being greedy, etc.) over what He wants and tell Him to go to Hell!! All of those people who did those terrible ungodly things in the pictures that you mentioned put their wills above the will of God and told Him to go to Hell, and your "opposition" to them is to also put your will above the will of God and tell Him to go to Hell!! But the price for telling Him to go to Hell is His letting you go there after you die.
This is all for now because I really think that any trying to show you love and help you is hopeless as long as you wilfully keep yourself locked in your prison of hate against all white people and refusing to listen to God and forgive. So, I'll leave what I have already said to you with you and hope that you are ever able before you die to come out of all mess and let God's love and truth into your heart, mind, and soul.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"SATAN!"
LOL!
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Nicholas J Page
Reverend Nick Page UK I thought all prisons have a Minister anyway.God said we should love one another no matter what colour you are and if it's true about White Supremeists then this religion needs disbanding.Its racist doesn't matter what colour you are.Just because the blacks started BLM No all lives matter whatever your race creed our colour.If your truely religious you wouldn't be in prison in the first place fact
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Brien
God said that? You got that on tape? So, trying to understand, you are using one religion to judge another? That is like Mickey judging Goofy on wether or not he is real. I am at least honest in my response. If you are in prison, your rights are no longer your own. Society has found you guilty of crimes and has decided to remove your freedoms. You get whatever the prison program is willing to give you. That includes anything you think you have a right to. You sure as heck are NOT afforded the right to create a belief structure based on hate and violence. Goes against the whole good behavior thing, which is a standard used thru out the penal system. So, I see this as a breakdown in the system. Not an area for zealots to try and declare some made up superiority complex.
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Colleen McAllister
It is both sad and terrifying that such a vicious group of people are allowed to hide behind the guise of religion. It has gone too far.
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ServantOfJudgement
It's a real problem because they're thinking and claiming to be Christian while race superiority(pride) is Satan's mantra. It would be nice for Christian organizations to uniformly denounce this. I'm baffled because Jesus ain't white!
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Robert Edward Szekely
So we have a bunch of felonious homicidal antisemitic half-wits who worship a dead Jew, arguing that whites are superior. HAH! I guess their religion must also include sacramental drug abuse to the point of brain damage, as well. What they practice is not so much a religion than a fascist political delusion. Somebody needs to do something about this Trumpster Extreme Court.
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Clint Knight
I can tell that your tolerant and inclusive liberal by your racist hate filled post!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Tolerating hate doesn't make a society tolerant, it makes it hateful.
How do you define 'racist'? As the White supremacists do?
Do you define 'tolerant' as tolerating hate? So did WW2 Germany.
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John D. Partin
You tolerate the hate against Christianity and Christians and attacking and contradicting every Christian belief, and so that makes you hateful and a bigot, too. There are Black Supremacists, too, in The Nation of Islam and The New Black Panthers' Party, who also want separation of the races and lebensraum for their group in a nation of their own carved out of this country, which are the same things that you condemn the Nazis for doing in Europe. So, do you condemn black racists for that, too, or operate on a double standard?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I get this all the time JDP - that conservatives aren't feeling the love from me, so therefore I am intolerant and hateful too.
What this ignores is the SPECIFICS of the discussion.
So before I reply, I want you to tell me EXACTLY what you are condemning that I am criticizing. I want you to tell me that the LGBTQ are "groomers" out to break all your sports records and convert all your children to sexual deviants. I want you to tell me that gay marriage renders your marriage meaningless. I want you to tell me that 400 years of white exploitation and oppression of blacks has NO lasting economic or cultural legacy. I want you to tell me all about how my criticisms have SO MUCH impact on you or your life.
I want you to perfectly express that fragile white victim mentality one more time, for all to see - then we can create your safe space and take it one issue at a time, as you see it, so you don't feel hated and put upon.
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John D. Partin
I also get this from you apologists for all of the world's "thinking" and sins all of the time, to convince yourselves first of all and then anyone else that you can bamboozle and brainwash with all of your idiocy into agreeing with you and being as idiotic as you are!!
You are also trying to manipulate the conversation and get me or other people to jump through your hoops and fit into your stereotypes and fall into your traps and the conversation go where you want it to go. Play games with yourself, not with me.
I'm not a conservative or I would be going along with the conservatives' support of Trumpelstiltskin, whom I detest for his lying, treason, incompetence, self-centeredness, egotism, womanizing, and using his supporters for his own aggrandizement and agenda, and the rest of the RepubliCONS and brainwashed and hypnotized drones, which I'm not!!
It is just your unreasonable and unrealistic generalizing that have you assuming that everyone has to either agree with you or else be one of those conservatives, but standing up for the truth of God, which can't be made up to suit yourself and as you go along, isn't conservative and doesn't fit into your stereotype about it.
As I have told you before, you are also against pedophilia, rape, bestiality, sex trafficking, child pornography, and many other evils not because those things happening affect you personally, since you aren't involved in any of them, but because you believe them to be wrong. Likewise, opposition to any other distortion of the natural order, as homosexuality and "gay marriage" are, isn't due to their having any effect on straight people's relationships, but simply because they are wrong, according to God.
When you stop being opposed to all of the things listed above that have no bearing on your personal relationships or life, then you could lecture Christians about their being opposed to something that doesn't affect their personal relationships, outside of the harm that it does to society, generally, in lowering the moral standards, just as those other things lower our moral standards.
But until then, you are being inconsistent and hypocritical If you had ever seen the movie Amistad and read any history of slavery, you would know that black Africans sold other black Africans into slavery for weapons and whatever they could get from the slavetraders and so contributed their essential part to that 400 years of white exploitation and oppression of blacks, without which it wouldn't have happened and so exploited and oppressed black brothers and sisters, too!!
They have their part in that economic or cultural legacy, which is the bigger picture and which you ignore or don't even know, in your haste to heap white guilt on yourself and all other white people: "guilty" just because of the color of their skin, though you object to that racial profiling being done to blacks or any other minorities and operate on a double standard.
It is that white guilting of yourself that makes you go along with black racists' saying that "all white people are racists, whether or not they know it" and whatever else they tell you to "think": yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, DUH!!! But then there is no difference between white people who fought and died for civil rights or for abolition of slavery and the most evil of white racists, who bombed churches and lynched black people and attacked black people at whites only lunch counters or committed any other acts of discrimination, according to that propaganda!!
Black racism produces more white racism, which produces more black racism, and on and on, ad infinitum, in a vicious circle, until enough people get off this merry-go-round and refuse to continue on with this nonsense and start judging other people by the contents of their characters, not by the color of their skin, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. hoped for us to do.
It is you who has the fragile white victim mentality by your going along with all of that white guilting of yourself and other white people, most unreasonably, and merely transferring your own white victim mentality on to other people, to take the focus off yourself, as usual. So, go ahead and show us your white victim mentality again!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Do you personally know any blacks that have been killed by police?
I do. Or did.
So you aren't a Trumpite - Congratulations! You didn't fall for that one - now we just need to work on the rest, as you otherwise seem very plugged into the conservative mainstream propaganda.
And do you know how you answer the attached link of proof of systemic racism after 400 years of black exploitation and oppression? I'll tell you - exactly as you're told to.
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6
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John D. Partin
You are also "very plugged into the conservative mainstream propaganda" if you don't believe, as they don't, that "all white people are guilty for the actions of any of them", which is just common sense and reason and logic, and if you do believe that "all white people are guilty for the actions of any of them", you need to get "plugged into the conservative mainstream propaganda" as soon as possible, and get yourself deprogrammed from that idiocy, at least, and whatever other idiocy that you are believing that they aren't believing, and then quickly unplug yourself once that has been accomplished before you take any of their idiocy into your head!!
I give credit where credit is due and when even conservatives or liberals or Nazis or Communists talk any sense, I give them credit for that without buying into the rest of their "thinking", as you do, too, and should do more often.
How do you answer that link that you give here? Exactly as your masters and brainwashers the black racists tell you to!!
I have already answered your comments about 400 years of black exploitation and oppression in my post to you above and about black racism in my post to you below without endlessly and uselessly going over and over and over the same thing again and casting more pearls before swine. Go and read my post to you above and post to you below and there is my answer to you!!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Ah yes, the "I'm rubber and you're glue" defense.
So typically conservative.
Now - tell me how 'typically liberal' it is LOL!
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John D. Partin
You have come up with that same childish line and interpretation of my post before and been humiliated and defeated over it and so I'm not interested in going through this again. Get some new writers because you are getting very repetitive or else just go back to talking with yourself!!!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
There it is - the conservative penchant for declaring 'reality' with magic spells and wishful thinking.
"You are defeated! Alla - Kazam!"
"You are humiliated! Alla - Kazam!"
And it IS a childish and repetitive line because I keep getting the same puerile BS lines from conservatives.
Tired of me are you? I bet.
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John D. Partin
Your not seeing or admitting, if you see it, that you have been humiliated and defeated isn't the same thing at all as that not having been done because you never admit the truth and are always lying YFAO!! So, why would this be an exception? It wouldn't and isn't!!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Play all the acronym games you want JDP, you are only fooling yourself.
You know NOTHING about morality, virtue or righteousness. You only know your capitulation to the oooooold book that says you need to hate certain people to feel superior - and you most certainly do! Just look at your last post to me.
It spells it out in a spectacularly clear fashion.
Anything else you need to say to this two-bit punk to put him down? Quite a bit, I'd wager.
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John D. Partin
You put yourself down more than enough without my or anyone else's needing to bother with doing that!! At least, you have that much a true view of yourself! Keep up that good work!!
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John D. Partin
Black racism makes people as stupid as white racism makes people. This is shown by the Nation of Islam's objective of claiming several states or even one state for their imaginary country of "Muhammadland" or whatever ridiculous name they would call it!
They show how unrealistic and divorced from reality they are by this objective, as they do by all of their "thinking", because no Governor of any state is going to just hand his state over to them and tell the people living there "You will have to go find yourselves somewhere else to live because this is going to be their country now"!!
That couldn't be compared to the Israelites leaving Egypt to be free from slavery or whatever other Biblical camouflage they try to disguise it in to "justify" it because the Israelites didn't try to set up their own country in Egypt and stay there, but just left.
If the southern Confederate white people weren't permitted to secede from the USA and start their own country, the Nation of Islam won't be able to do that, either, without a war, especially if their bigoted view that "white people always do and care more for white people than they ever do for black people" were true, and that didn't happen for the southern Confederates.
They would be driving their own black brothers and sisters out of that state, too, who wouldn't want to be part of Muhammadland because even with all of the problems in America, they know that it is still better than some dictatorship, as under the war lords in Sudan or Idi Amin in Uganda or under a cult leader like Jim Jones in Guyana or David Koresh in the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
“Black racism”, as you call it and it is a quite laughable term, is a form of defense and response.
A shield, if you will, against all of the crap heaped upon us from white societies.
I suppose it would be in white supremacists/racists best interest if only Black people would let our guards down…again.
We see currently, we read and we fully understand and remember what playing nice got us before.
We are now saying and have been saying via rebellions, sit-ins, protests and lawsuits, “No thanks”.
This time, we give what we have been given.
Oh, mean words and dirty looks from us hurt someone’s feelings?
Try googling the THOUSANDS of lynching pictures/postcards and picnics and seeing disgusting photos of Black bodies dangling deformed by chains, whips and fires while whites and their children sit eating or smiling and pointing at the dead's feet.
Google lynching souvenirs, which were whites who cut off body parts of the person’s they were lynching.
Or, how they cut unborn babies out of Black mothers stomach’s, then STOMPED on the babies heads killing them.
Or, how they used Black newborns as alligator bait while hunting.
Google minstrel shows and how those were oh, so funny to large crowds of whites because it showcased starving, sad and destitute Black people, most often the children as caricatures where white men practically wore their skin via blackface.
While I’m amongst a lucky FEW who has found her lineage, the VAST MAJORITY of Black peoples will NEVER know their tribes or inheritance because whites sold off newborns, pregnant adolescents who were raped by their owners and routinely broke apart family units for profit…often child sex trafficking.
This is but A FEW of the great harms from whites since encountering us.
But Black racism is the same to you?
Absurd.
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John D. Partin
You aren't being honest at all when you say that black people only give "mean words and dirty looks" to white people for some white people's rotten treatment of you because Reginald Denny's being dragged out of his truck and beaten up by black people and laughed at as he went down, in the L.A. riots after the acquittal of those white officers for beating Rodney King, wasn't just mean words and dirty looks, but giving back the same racism that you have been given by only the worst examples of white people, not all of them.
Other white people have been attacked by black people for absolutely no reason and when their attackers didn't know anything more about them than that they were white, and that is black racism and as inexcusable as what you talked about in those pictures. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Jesus said that if a man even looks at a woman with lust in his heart, he has committed adultery with her. Likewise, if you even give mean words and dirty looks with hate in your heart to white people, you have already attacked or killed those people, in God's eyes. Jesus doesn't want us to be hating or lusting or being greedy or committing any other sin at all and though "mean words and dirty looks" might seem less important to you and other people, they don't seem less important to Jesus or God the Father.
Those people who did all of those terrible things to your people in those pictures have already stood before God and been condemned by Him for that because nobody gets away with anything, just by not paying for it here. And if you and other people don't want to be standing before God someday and being condemned for your "mean words and dirty looks", as you downplay them to be, then don't do those things or follow those terrible examples.
N.O.I. believers don't follow the practices of true religion of being peacemakers and sowing love and forgiveness where there is hate and unforgiveness and not judging by the appearance (of skin or any other externals), but judging a righteous judgment.
Here is a prayer to show you true religion, instead of the false religion of The Nation of Islam.
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace; where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; where there is sadness, joy. O divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love. For it is in giving that we receive, it is in pardoning that we are pardoned, and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen. (Peace Prayer attributed to Saint Francis of Assisi)
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
Two wrongs don’t make a right but defense against those that have HISTORICALLY wronged you IS right.
Whatever crap you’re talking about NOI is your own noise.
You want that argument, you take that to them.
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John D. Partin
It isn't all white people that have historically wronged you or your people, but hatred and unforgiveness against those who have make you blame all white people for that, the same as white racists hate all black people for bad experiences with just a few of you. You are the same as they are!!
Neither you nor they could meet all white people or all black people in one lifetime, if you lived to 150 and met one person every second. So, that hatred of them all is just ridiculous and hating people that you might like, if you got to know them. Does that hate of all white people extend to the white members of your family, too? You say that it doesn't, but why aren't they "white devils", too, when all other white people are?!!
You say that I should just talk to the N.O.I. about my objections to them, but since you agree with them and hate white people the same as they do, why wouldn't I ask you about their stupid "thinking", too? But I won't ask you about it anymore, since you won't answer me anyway, except with cursing and more hate and toxicity and bigotry.
Your hate is so much that it won't even let you consider the Peace Prayer that I sent to you or let it get through to you and make any sense to you. There aren't going to be any black or brown or yellow or white people in Heaven because there isn't any skin there for there to be any skin color, and skin color and hatred over it is only something that we are bothering with in this world.
As for leprosy being white, tumors and the Black Death turned parts of people black, and brain tumors are having black on the brain (which can be spiritual, as well as physical), and malaria and jaundice make people yellow, but those are of the flesh, not the spirit.
It didn't take all white people to wipe out entire populations or rape or do all of those other things, but only a fanatical lunatic fringe of them, and yet you still lump all white people together and call us all "racists", and say that we have "bs propaganda talking points" and 'magical' pasty ssa skin", showing that it is you who is racist and it doesn't matter how much love and understanding that I or any other white people try to show you because you will still talk all of your racist idiocy!! So, go on and stay stuck in that until you die and see what all of that gets you and what happens to you in the end, and don't listen to anyone trying to warn you about that!! Some people have to learn the hard way what hate and unforgiveness lead to and you certainly sound here like one of those people.
I'm through casting pearls before swine with you!
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
Additionally, you can check off a few occurrences to a smattering of whites.
Well…there are ENTIRE populations WIPED out, abused, raped, maimed, paper genocide and utterly destroyed in every way possible by whites once whites invaded illegally onto others lands.
It’s OBVIOUSLY not enough because here you and a few fellow racists are trying to STILL tow the line of whites hatred and evil.
GTFOH with your bs propaganda talking points from 4Chan/Q crap.
Your present, past and future are fd up because of belief in your “magical” pasty ssa skin.😂
What’s funny is my family is COMPLETELY mixed with every “race” and my family from ALL including the whites say what I’m saying.
You need to work on yourself buddy because at whatever pearly gates you reach😂, more than likely it’s going to be Black/Brown folks…whiteness is leprosy or sickness back in the day, soooo😂😂😂
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
You all seem hyper focused on NOI.
It’s laughable when the KKK and other white militias still operate and exist.
Y’all should be on Def Comedy Jam with these jokes of rebuttals.
Until you address ALL elephant’s in the room, no person with dark skin can take ANYTHING you say seriously.
Y’all’s argument is pretty much…Black and Brown peoples should not form protections against whites because it was in the past.😂
"There are many white people who mean right and in their heart wanna do right," he said. "If 10,000 snakes were coming down that aisle now, and I had a door that I could shut, and in that 10,000, 1,000 meant right, 1,000 rattlesnakes didn’t wanna bite me, I knew they were good… "Should I let all those rattlesnakes come down, hoping that that thousand get together and form a shield? Or should I just close the door and stay safe?“ -Ali
Hate it or love it…whites credibility with the majority of is is SHOT and it’s your own doing.
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Russel A. Kester
Takaya, this had been a black and white issue until you inserted the color brown into it. I'm not sure very many of them would agree with your doing so. In Salinas, CA, the majority Latino community dismissed CRT, and were bored by the constant black/white problems created by both sides.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
Yes, you can roll with your stats but I’ll roll with my BROWN FAMILY MEMBERS.
We are on the same page.
Not ALL Mexicans acquiesced to Blanqueando la carrera/o a las raices crap.
Some recognize they’re closely related while some run from the dark abuelos/as in their family tree.
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Russel A. Kester
Yes, I go with stats on a topic like this. However, it would be great to hear from Latinos themselves. As for what you or I think they think, we're probably both a little right and a little wrong. As a community it seems as diverse as all the rest. What isn't right to say is that they are on your side against whites in some sort of racial war.
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John D. Partin
I have condemned the KKK and the Nazis and I hate them, too, more than you do, since you just hate them for what they have done to your people and Jews (if you don't hate Jews), but I hate them for what they have done to your people and because I and other white people who haven't done any of that still get blamed and hated for it just because of our skin.
Have you read my previous posts to other people here or not?
I'm now addressing the other elephants in the room, as you said to do, of the Nation of Islam, New Black Panther Party, and black supremacists and racists elsewhere and all other racists, and you still hate my talking about it and are being hateful!!
"Whites credibility with black people has been shot with the majority of black people" (according to you) because you bigotedly lump all white people together and consider us all "rattlesnakes", the same as white racists lump all black people together and consider them all the same.
That isn't our doing, but your doing and other people's doing who "think" like you, instead of considering white people as individuals, the same as all black and all other people want to be considered as individuals, not "just all the same". That isn't your doing unto others as you would have others do unto you.
Have you really never known any white people who have been good to black people and treated them with love, when they were allowed to do so, and haven't they been far more numerous than the lunatic fringe of white idiots who have caused all of those problems for your people? What about Robert Kennedy or John F. Kennedy or the white civil rights workers, who even gave their lives for those rights, or abolitionists or doctors or other good people that you have known personally or heard of?!!
You don't speak for all black people, anymore than the KKK speaks for all white people, so that any black people who disagree with you and other black racists are "Toms" or "Oreos" or whatever other derogatory term that you have for them. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. didn't agree with you. Even Malcolm X at the end of his life didn't still agree with you and many other black people in history and that I have known personally don't or didn't agree with you. So, stop giving yourself airs as their "spokeswoman". You only speak for you and other bigots!
You should be on Def Comedy Jam with all of your joke rebuttals and are merely transferring on to me what is going on with you. This is enough time and effort to waste on you, since you have closed your mind and can't understand what I'm saying to you, anyway. Go on in your bigotry and be as happy as you can be with all that and then pay the price for that when you stand before God, who said "Judge not by the appearance, but judge a righteous judgment".
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You condemn the KKK and the Nazis but you parrot a lot of their same rhetoric.
Right-wing propaganda owns you. You'll see.
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John D. Partin
As I have told you many times before, you parrot white supremacists rhetoric whenever you agree with them about not being responsible for what other people have done or strength through joy and only disagree, as I do, with their extremist racist idiocy, but give credit where credit is due.
Right-wing propaganda owns you. You'll see. Those idiots saying anything sensible, very occasionally, is their agreement with me and all other sensible people, not our agreement with them.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You just said a mouthful of nothing.
If you want racism forgotten, you are advantaging racists, because there IS a debt owed there. You are fooling yourself - and ONLY yourself - if you think anything else.
"To Whomever it may concern; African-American people (humans), did NOT benifit from slavery (period) When a person is bought, owned, bred, sold, work, separated from family, denied their culture, devalued as not human, and abused by another human being, the only benifit of bettering themselves is for survival in an inhuman situation. And that is using the word benifit as liberally as possible. States or Boards of Education, may attempt to gloss over the cruelty and dispicable history we share and own, but the truth will always bear out that slavery was, and is, one of the most horrific things ever thought up by other people. This is up there with the Hollicost, the Japanese Internmet Camps during WW2, and the appropriation of land and rights of Native Americans/First Peoples. Yes, I'm sure I'm leaving things out, because we can be that terrible. When will we own the fact that our nation, along with the blessing of the Church, sanctioned the mistreatment of people; doing so under the guise of saying they were not humans. Why is this a thing? Why are we even considering this revisionist history? Let the light shine on the truth. Let us consider the civil rights of all people. This is what our nation is built on, and our Judeo/Christian values are built on. Let's not sell our souls on the altar of ignorance and a call to defying a so called, woke society. Sincerly, Rev. D. Kent Deubner, Retired Clergy"
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John D. Partin
Fairness might seem like "a mouthful of nothing" to you, but, thankfully, not to all truly sensible people in here and in the world. Slavery and killings and genocide of black people and discrimination against them are among the greatest atrocities in the history of the world and we don't need you to inform us of that, but all white people haven't been involved in all of that.
Only a lunatic fringe of them did all of that, the same as a lunatic fringe of Germans committed the Holocaust, and a lunatic fringe of Americans committed the appropriation of lands and rights of Native Americans and the internment of Japanese Americans, and none of them spoke for all of us, but you, like all other anti-white bigots and self-hating and self-guilting white people have no problem lumping all white people together and blaming them all for the actions of any of them. Many abolitionists and the starters of that movement, and John F. Kennedy, and Robert Kennedy, and civil rights marchers, and soldiers in the Union Army against the Confederacy were white, but you ignore all of them and concentrate on the worst white people.
The worst people are the majority in the world, who follow the path of least resistance and their own lusts and darkened "reason" and moo and amble along with the worldly herd, while the best are the exception to the rule and follow the narrow path that leads to life and Heaven, instead of the broad road that leads to destruction that you and all other worldly people are on!! All worldly people aren't at all of the same activities or ends, but are working in their different ways for our destruction, like termites chewing away on a house until it caves in on and kills them!!
This is again all that it is worth my time talking to you about this and casting more pearls before swine because you won't be able to listen to it or overcome your bigotry enough to even try to understand it, but I'm only required to try to get through to you and tell you the truth, not to get you to agree with it. So, go on in your delusions, as you will, anyway.
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ServantOfJudgement
I've noticed that all the hurdles have been removed for not white people. The news keeps saying white people always have it better. Covid hits not whites harder. Climbing change hits not whites harder. Highways are rougher on not whites. Not whites need help getting loans, jobs, college enrolment, most money handout programs and passing highschool. After a lifetime of this, maybe the prisoners finally caved to the narrative fed to them, that whites are superior and now they actually believe it. Huh, that's weird.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6#the-employment-population-ratio-measures-the-share-of-a-demographic-group-that-has-a-job-and-its-been-lower-for-black-people-for-years-1
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ServantOfJudgement
Kenneth,
Not saying race bias is not real and active. I've seen it plenty, same with women in the workplace., they can have it rough too. My point is when a white guy struggles to buy socks for his kids and sees the assistance non whites get, even if it's justified, he is very likely to scratch his head and become bitter.
I don't have an answer for this problem and I'm all ears when it comes to mending it as long as the solution is reasonable and logical. I'd bet if people like us, not politicians were tasked to solve this we could, even though we're polar opposites. Because we can see and we care.-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You underestimate the power of right-wing propaganda.
Completely.
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Catherine
Maybe lawmakers can't deny supremacists because other organized religions paved the way with bigotry, hate speech, oppression, and all manner of violence?
Disturbing thought: maybe white supremacists are more honest than organized religions; perhaps less devious and conniving?
Another dark side is white supremacists are likely counting on recruiting people who would not be inclined to join if they were not desperate for food or a place to sleep.
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ServantOfJudgement
Prison breeds radicals.
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Lionheart
So does religion. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Religion breeds the most extreme radicals. Prison is about reform.
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Michael Hunt
Well it should be about reform but we're not very good at that in the US prison system.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Most were radicals before prison, SOJ.
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ServantOfJudgement
I don't doubt that Robert, not one bit. Our prison system is horribly broken to the point gangs still operate from prison. Sides must be taken. A prisoner that may not be a racist could turn to racism as a necessity for survival.
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Troels Qvist
As such you need to take responsibility for the condition of man. As a religion it do not seem dumber than other religions..plus who cares these People have " born to lose" on their birth certificate & they are doing life,so who really care..
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Fact; all religions are human made — ergo, the determining factor in determining the legitimacy of one religion, over another, is how long the religion has managed to survive, and how many members it has.
That’s it.
We either don’t give any special treatment for any religion, or we give in to all superstitions nonsense.
Bottom line; if you’re religious —don’t do anything that will have you put in prison.
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John D. Partin
Entirely human made religions are only coming up with the kinds of things that human beings come up with for themselves, such as "God is whatever we say that he is, we can do anything that we want to do and live any way that we want and think anything that we want and God doesn't care, and there is no Heaven or Hell for doing good or evil things".
That is how we tell the difference between religions that people are just making up to suit themselves and a religion that is demanding more from people than they would come up with and demand from themselves (such as loving their enemies, loving their neighbors as themselves, doing unto others as they would have others do unto them, being peacemakers, and other teachings of Christ), and it is wildly over-simplistic, Indiscriminate and propagandist to lump them together and consider them all "manmade".
Those who don't practice and live up to the teachings of Christ, while still calling themselves "Christians", are very clearly de facto practitioners of the manmade religion of the rest of the world, no matter how much or strongly they deny it, because actions speak louder than words, and so can't be honestly called "examples of Christianity" for the purpose of condemning Christianity. There are two branches of the herd in the world: the religious herd and the worldly herd, but they are the same herd. Real Christianity proves itself to be legitimate over the illegitimate manmade "religions".
Pastafarianism is a manmade religion and a cynical joke against religion, which its adherents believe to have no truths at all and so just make up any ridiculous thing that you want and call it "religion", since they think that there are no real standards for anything's calling itself a religion.
If the teachings of Christ were really followed by all people, there would be no more need for any prisons because people would only be showing love for other people and so never commiting any crimes against them. It is only all people's not following Christ's teachings that we have to thank for prisons' still being necessary and people's still being sent to them. So, stop being unloving to your neighbors and keep yourselves out of prison.
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Krystina S.
The outrageous thing is that "religion" and "belief" are just the hammers used to justify the nails of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, misogyny, and other repugnant means by which to put down others. There doesn't seem to be an end to it, Pastafarianism and Mormonism and Judaism are "equally" valid "belief" systems? Hm. The White Supremacist Christofaschists just steamroll over all other human beings, creatures, and our planet with their demand for hegemony/domination. It is disgusting. When "religion" is the excuse for hatred and abuse of others, it is illegitimate. (not that religion is necessarily legitimate, but I mean illegitimate as a "recognized religion.") If I know someone who fervently believes that our planet will cease to be without human sacrifice of a living, beating heart each month, that person's "belief" is illegitimate. Where a person believes that others are subhuman, and are associated with terrorism, that person's "belief" is illegitimate and ought not to be pandered to.
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Andrew A. Brinksma
First, it's Rastafornianism. Not pasta. Second if you want to discuss religions that steamroller over people, examine the Middle Eastern religions. Where you will be killed just for having a different belief.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
AAB first of all, it's Rastafarianism, NOT Rastafornianism and secondly what Krystina S was referring to si the name of the religion of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Pastafarianism (pasta, after spaghetti) so may HIS noodley appendage touch you, Ra' men (get it, ramen noodles.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Most of the people in here are so indoctrinated with socialist philosophy ,high the communists use to indoctrinate people. Many of you haven't received a college education but a college indoctrination. I'm outta here.
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Michael Hunt
Bye, Felicia!
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Najah P Tamargo
Minster Najah Tamargo USA
I was not aware that hate and violence constituted a "religion"? If that is the case than, in our current environment, most of the world belongs to that religion.
How sad and disappointing that is as I prefer to believe in love, kindness, acceptance, inclusion, empathy....WITHOUT VIOLENCE!!!
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Lionheart
The Christian God seemed to thrive on violence. He never once condoned slavery, and even condoned stoning people to death 🤷🏼
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ServantOfJudgement
It might seem that way to the untrained eye lionheart but it's not. If I remember right, the isrealites chose to have the law rather than his presence. They asked to be held accountable to an impossible legal system, just like ours is today. I think the average us citizen commits several felonies a day without knowing it. As far as slavery goes, he knows we're filthy dogs that will enslave each other, like your slave made products from China. He is so opposed to slavery he crushed the Egyptians after warning upon warning upon warning to the Pharoah, let my people go. The crime is on Pharoah, not he who freed the slaves.
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Beth
The Law that the Jews had, and include stoning and slavery, is said to have come directly from God via the tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain. That God is most CERTAINLY not opposed to slavery! There are specific laws on the treatment of slaves, who you can enslave, and who you must free at specific times. There are laws on how you can and should beat your slaves. There are even rules on just how you can sell your own daughter into slavery!
Jesus is not recorded anywhere to be opposed to slavery. "Slaves, obey your masters". He could have just as easily said not to own other people! There's the whole book of Philemon, about an escaped slave who became a Christian, then returned to his Christian owner.
Neither Jews nor Christians nor Muslims oppose slavery.
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John D. Partin
Beth, Jesus' saying "Don't do to anyone what you wouldn't him to do to you" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me" is his most definitely being opposed to slavery, if you don't need him to spell everything out for you and lead you around by your hand like a little child to every conclusion and put your nose right down into it and can figure things out for yourself from the obvious statements that he did make, and if you wouldn't want slavery to be done to you.
Jesus wants to speak to us like adults and expects us to be able to figure out some things for ourselves from what he has told us and put two and two together and come up with four. This "Jesus didn't oppose slavery" nonsense because he didn't get right up in our faces and say that he opposed it is just more of the fallacious argument from silence because he didn't explicitly say that he was opposed to homosexuality, either, but took it for granted that his hearers would already know that from the Law and so didn't need to belabor the obvious and the same for his not belaboring the obvious about being against slavery, after his statements above and the history of the Jews in Egypt and the Law.
If God hadn't been against slavery, He wouldn't have had Moses lead the Jews out of slavery in Egypt, but would have left them there. Jesus wasn't indifferent to or for slavery when his father was and is against it. That's ridiculous!! Men who wrote the Bible put their own thoughts and words in God's mouth about slavery and many other issues to make "Him" agree with them and sanction and "justify" their views, but they didn't really speak for God anymore than many people who are also putting their words in God's mouth today speak for Him. God is love and slavery isn't love and so isn't from God!! Case closed!!
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ServantOfJudgement
Beth,
God gave law to Moses upon request. The initial request was law over presence. The Israelite asked for the law and God gave it. God knows man is vile and he knows we will make slaves of our brothers. Knowing this he gave us code for slavery, which always ends in freedom by the way. The slaves YOU used to make the devise you posted with are not under God's law of slavery, rather man's law, which is vile. That means YOUR slaves are brutalized and will not be freed unless someone frees them, which won't be you. Every single member on this site employs and relies on slavery and therefore does not oppose it.
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Lionheart
Your apologetic view for your god doesn’t do anything for him. I guess he’s totally relying then, on us “imperfect humans” to speak for him and try to come up with excuses and reasons behind his poor morals. 🤷🏼
If he’s capable of telling us what type of linens to wear, or food to eat, it would be a no brainer to tell us to not have slaves, or stone one another to death.
I don’t want to have any association with any supposed deity with that sort of real poor logic/direction.
I wonder if the god you like to believe in, or any of them that mankind likes to follow, are real?
🦁❤️
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Loribeth Ann Silver
Lionheart thank you for this simple truth. It's about time someone on this thread spoke truth about religion and gods.
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ServantOfJudgement
In that, you are correct lionheart, I can do nothing for God. That means something different to me than to you but in both ways, you are correct. Rightly said.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Oh but you can do something for God.
You could facilitate the fullest expression of all of God's Creation.
Funny how adamantly religious people work against that.
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Lionheart
I can’t do anything for gods, fairies, elves etc., if there is no demonstrable evidence they are real.
🦁❤️
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Paul Edward Nunis
So your god is too weak to take responsibility for it's own doings?
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Russel A. Kester
SOJ, if ever member on the site depends on slavery and you are a member of thos site, then you must also depend on slavery. We're you making just such a confession?
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Paul Edward Nunis
That's from a Yul Brenner movie.
Written Scripture relates that Pharoah had relented, and God controlled him into chasing the Israelites... then massacred the Egyptians for doing what God wanted.
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John D. Partin
That is certainly more falsely ascribing to God Pharaoh's changing his mind and going back on his word and chasing after the Israelites to keep his slaves and his men suffering the consequences for his change of mind, as soldiers have been suffering and dying for thousands of years for their leaders' decisions.
The Bible writers made "God" exact the revenge on the Egyptians that they wanted to exact on them, which God can't be reasonably blamed for and which He isn't going to stop them from doing and interfere with free will.
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Paul Edward Nunis
Still sounds like the Gospel of Cecil B. DeMille. The written word of God in Scripture says that God literally 'hardened Pharoah's heart'. That's an active verb, so no... Pharoah did not manipulate God, it was the other way around (IF you believe in His omnipotent transcendence and emmanance).
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John D. Partin
You are, once again, mistaking some Bible writers' ascribing something to God ("hardening Pharaoh's heart") for anything that God actually did, just because it says that in the Bible, but which is inconsistent with God's character of and being love, when actions aren't being ascribed to Him and words aren't being put into His mouth.
So, your interpretation and conclusion still have no validity.
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Paul Edward Nunis
So centuries of in depth research by archaeologists and people who know the original languages, is all fraudulent... but you and Hollywood are the direct authorities on God's mind hmmmm? How fantastic.
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John D. Partin
God is the direct Authority on His own Mind and so when He tells us "God is love", that invalidates all the archeologists and people who know the original languages (but, somehow, with all their "great learning", can't understand what "God is love" means) and everyone else who is saying that any hate is from God, after His just telling us that it isn't, and shows them all to be fraudulent!!!
So, you go on foolishly listening to all the archeologists and people who know the original languages and everyone else who disagrees with God's own statement about Himself, and I'll go on agreeing with His statement about Himself.
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Russel A. Kester
John, many of your posts have been insightful and even reasonable, but with holy scripture you seem to be inconsistent. You seems to follow it until it says something you don't like because it isn't in character for a loving God. Now apply that same thinking to your posts about gays. Those few passages that are seemingly anti-gay were out there by the same people who wrote those passages you reject. I know this thread was on a different topic, but give it some time and we'll talk more during a more appropriate thread. It's bound to. But this will give you some time to think about it.
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John D. Partin
Russel A. Kester, thank you for your kind comments. As for those passages that seem to be or are anti-gay, written by those same people who wrote those passages that I reject, that is just their being wrong about some things and right about other things, as you and I and all of us are.
I know that you are gay from your other posts here, but can't compromise what Jesus said to sinners just to get along with the world, since there has been far too much of that already (and any of it is too much!!). Jesus never told anyone who came to him with their sins to go out and keep sinning or that their sins weren't sins, but said "Go and sin no more".
His not specifically mentioning homosexuality doesn't mean that he was okay with it or not against it, which is the fallacious argument from silence, since he didn't mention rape or child molestation or many other things either, which were condemned in the law and he was certainly against. But he knew that his hearers knew all about them, anyway, and so he didn't need to belabor the obvious.
He did say that "I have not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it, and not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away until all be fulfilled" and homosexuality was and is forbidden in that law of Moses.
The best that I can do for you is to tell you to go on with the rest of the world that ignores the teachings of Christ and ignore the teaching against homosexuality, too, as all the rest of them are ignored, too. But those who are ignoring Christ's teachings include gay bashers, who attack and even kill gay people, as they do in Russia and here and everywhere, which is very wrong, too. So, you are left out there with them in the Christ-rejecting and defying world, and stay safe.
You can't fight one sin with another sin. But, at least, keep that in the world and don't try to turn the church into the world, so that people who want an alternative to the world and to be free from that have no place to turn to, the same as you don't want straight people coming into your organizations and spaces and taking them over and trying to run them. Don't insist that your lifestyle or orientation be accepted by everyone everywhere, since that isn't diversity and freedom for us to disagree. Go your way, as you will, anyway, and let other people go their way, as long as they aren't harming or imposing on you and others, and return that consideration to them.
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Shirley Jean Davis
This organization is so warped and chicken hearted that they need to hide behind a constitutional right to continue spreading hate in the name of religion. What bull. Kind of makes one wonder what that judge does during his free time; does it include a white hood?
Jesus never condoned hate in any form and these people claiming to worship him when he was a Jew is almost comical.
I hope this ruling is overturned.
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John D. Partin
This totally upside down, backwards, inverted, and politically correct world is letting prisoners have more of the same "thinking" and "religion" in there that made many of them criminals in the first place and sent them to prison, all in the name of their "rights"!! They were supposed to have lost their rights and stopped being citizens with all of our rights out here when they broke the law and went to prison, instead of still having all of our rights in there, as though they hadn't done anything wrong at all!!
Prisoners aren't supposed to be learning and continuing with the same things in there that are distorting and corrupting people's "thinking" out here, even if they play the same games about them that white supremacists out here play and lie to themselves and others, for public relations, and say that Aryan Nations, Klan, skinheads, and neo-Nazis "aren't about hate of black people, but only about love for white people and racial separation".
Prison life is bad enough just by itself, with sex crimes and violence in there, without adding even more fuel to the fire by allowing white racist "churches" and groups in there, because so many in society and even judges, as in this case, won't pull their heads out of their behinds completely or long enough to see and care what they are doing by allowing that in our prisons!!
Jesus said "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" about people's murdering an innocent man (himself) and that prayer needs to be said very much more so over this being done in prisons.
Prisons are supposed to be for reforming prisoners and places for their repentance and penance. Hence, the names for them of "reformatories" and "penitentiaries". But reform doesn't happen fast enough to suit people and requires much more work than they want to put into it, and so prisons have become, for a long time now, just warehouses to store these people and keep them away from the rest of society.
Instead of prisons' renewing and reforming prisoners, they are actually colleges of criminal knowledge, where people go in criminals and come out even worse criminals, unless they discipline themselves and reform themselves, since the State won't do it, due to financial or time spent on them or whatever other considerations. Their coming out even worse criminals (and white racist groups aggravating that situation!) doesn't do them or society any good.
White racists in prison, the same as out here, encourage and "justify" black, Hispanic, and all other racist groups in there, further deteriorating an already miserable situation. White racism is the opposite of and incompatible with Christianity, no matter how much the Aryan Nations and their ilk have tried to "harmonize" them and assimilate Christianity into them, like real life Borg who assimilate everything, because it isn't loving your neighbor as yourself or doing unto others as you would have others do unto you or not judging by appearance, but judging a righteous judgment, as Jesus commanded his followers to do.
"For we battle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, and against spiritual wickedness in high places". That isn't anyone walking around on two legs or any human being that we can see in this world, but something that we can't see and yet sees us and wants the worst for us and for us to fight, hate, and kill each other!!
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Beth
Prisoners have their rights curtailed, but they still have rights. They retain their citizenship that they had when they went into prison, although those rights are severely diminished. The constitutional right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment, granted to "persons" rather than "citizens" is specifically for prisoners. Prisoners still have the right to seek redress from the courts. Their freedom of association is limited. They still have freedom of religion.
The problem is that some religions do not mesh well with the realities of prison. Some do not mesh well within society. The second amendment does not allow a court to define what is or is not a religion - all must be respected and catered to, or none must be.
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John D. Partin
We don't all need to respect white racist or Nazi "religion" anymore than we respect white racist politics or any other fraudulent philosophy or practice in society or else "we are disrespecting everyone else", and have to cater to and respect white racists or else "not respect anyone at all"!!! That is absurd and Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement toward Hitler and those first Nazis, and we know how that turned out!!!
Not everything that calls itself or is considered by others to be a "religion" actually is one or else we would have to say that there aren't any more frauds anymore, which is stupid and ridiculous!! White racists' version of "Christianity", which let's them go on with their racism and feel and "think" themselves "holy" by doing so isn't a religion. The abuses of "Christianity" weren't a religion or their following the teachings of Christ. Cults aren't religion. Just anything that anyone wants to call a "religion" doesn't actually make it one because there are basic and minimal standards for a religion.
So, we don't owe the respect due to actual religion to those impostures that don't love God with everything in them and truly love their neighbors as themselves, which is basic religion and truth. On these two pegs hang all the law and the prophets, as Christ said. Gandhi, though formally a Hindu, practiced that basic religion and had the spirit of Christ. There are examples of it in other religions.
The second amendment doesn't relieve us all of the responsibility to think about what religion actually is or to be discerning, but, instead, just blindly accept and buy hook, line, and sinker that everything that is called "religion" actually is and treat it all the same!! Racism doesn't even work out here, for black or white or Asian or any other racists, and so, of course, it works far less or just not at all in the confines and restrictions of prisons.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
I think you meant to say the First Amendment, not the Second. The First Amendment is freedom of speech, religion, and the press. The Second Amendment is about weapons.
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John D. Partin
Thank you for your correction. In the heat of commenting and replying here, I slip up on some details.
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Russel A. Kester
We all do John. :-)
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ServantOfJudgement
Right on John, right on.
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John D. Partin
Thank you for your comment, Servant of Judgment, and God bless you and your posts here.
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Pamela Vonbacho Ploof
Well said. Amen
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Ellen B. Wentzel
Is racism now a religion? We are all supposed to love one another.
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Russel A. Kester
Ellen, in a sense, it always has in the Abrahamic religions as the Jews were not to mix with other people. That sort of changed in Christianity, but the believers were still encouraged to not marry unbelievers. And Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslims men (Muslim men may marry non-Muslim women because the children are to be raised in the father's religion).
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Mary E Benoit
Most religions are white supremacy organizations where women's voices are mute and opportunity is limited. The major difference is some are not white but women are still servants.
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ServantOfJudgement
All races have sects of racists. They all do. If heard real shockers from different races against other races. Very sad but it's not a religion problem, it's a human problem.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Because derps like yourself perpetuate it. It’s a taught problem, not an innate problem. There’s bigotry and there’s racism, one utilizes the other in its system of ideas. It can be solved, you’re just too lazy to shelve the idea.
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ServantOfJudgement
Derp? Never heard that one before. Who's the derp?
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Ty Ford
me neither.....
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/derp
A derogatory noun that is out of place here because it's an ad hominem attack. The meaning there is, "If you can't attack the idea, attack the person.
My typical response to people who do that is, "meow." (calling it out as a catty remark)
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Well said SOJ - but at the same time, it is the white supremacist problem that is the majority of the trouble and has been for centuries. If we don't stamp out the worst offense first, what are we to do? Lead by "Don't do as I do, do as I say?" How effective do you think that would be?
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ServantOfJudgement
Yes, the term supremacy is definitely pronounced by/with white/whiteness. I will not argue your point, you're right. We know when white guys think they're best, trouble follows. Thanks Hitler. I don't know a white guy that thinks he's best, not personally. Maybe movie stars and politicians, not normal folks. Other races have the same hang-up and they do it their way. Rwanda 1994. All people should be aware of what they could perpetuate. True with race, true with Christianity, true with Hinduism, true with Atheism, true with status.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yes, everybody has problems - and the condition of blacks in America is the direct legacy of 400 years of systemic exploitation and oppression by its white majority.
Let me suggest you Google "White Supremacist Forums" as I have done in the past and go and look at White Supremacist's own words and ideas. I think (hope!) you would be surprised and horrified how closely they sound to how you sound here.
"Everybody does it." "Whites aren't oppressing anybody now." "It isn't fair." With a lot of words and no regard for reality or history they paint a picture of themselves the innocent victims. That's their complicity.
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Russel A. Kester
Kenneth, how much have you read up on white slavery in Africa? Never heard of it? Why wouldn't that surprise me. Watch Thomas Sowell's excellent videos on YouTube. It's a real education. One has to respect his breadth of knowledge and the wisdom he demonstrates.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Propaganda 101 - when you have a racial point to make, find the that racial identity to say it. There's ALWAYS an outlier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#Economic_and_political_ideology
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John D. Partin
It takes two to tango and white and black racism feeding off each other in a symbiotic relationship to keep this nonsense going. The Nation of Islam proves itself to be an actually Satanic organization because it teaches and practices unforgiveness and follows the teaching in The Satanic Bible "Hate your enemy with a whole heart". Actions still speak louder than words and their denials of their Satanism.
Satan can appear as an "angel of light" and quote Scripture for his purpose, to hide his true nature and intentions from people, so as to deceive them more. So, N.O.I. ministers' doing the same thing don't disprove that they are Satanists, anymore than it did that for the Inquisitors or the Pharisees.
Racism must be opposed across the board against any people at all, instead of only being condemned when its advocates are wearing bed sheets or brown shirts and swastika armbands, but given a pass and not condemned when its advocates wear bow ties and black suits (again judging and favoring due to appearance) because their people have "suffered so much more than other people have".
Jesus didn't say that you could hate and not forgive other people if you have had "more injustice and more to suffer" than others have, but said that if you refuse to forgive other people, you will also not be forgiven. So, the black Muslims and Black Panthers and white racists condemn themselves when they refuse to forgive.
Racism isn't necessarily about power, which is a definition of it that black racists have come up with to deflect the righteous charge of racism from themselves, but is about hating another race or ethnic group, as honestly defined by the dictionary. That isn't oversimplification of it, but is just honest and logical. Doing something about your feelings is a whole other can of worms, but even a homeless person lying in a gutter and looking up and seeing someone of another race and hating them for that is a racist, and has no power to do anything to that person.
The distinctions should be made between powerful racists and powerless racists, and all the degrees in between, but power isn't necessary to racism. That is like saying that someone can't have the feeling of hunger if they don't have the money or power to get theirself something to eat. Racism is a feeling and way of "thinking".
For there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. --- Galatians 3:28 For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, and against spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. --- Ephesians 6:12 Judge not by the appearance, but judge a righteous judgment. --- John 7:24
Read The Trouble With Farrakhan and The Nation of Islam by Elreta Dodds, available in Amazon and other bookstores, and about them in the Southern Poverty Law Center web site.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
One race used another for 400 years and is now trying to ignore their hereditary offense and exonerate themselves largely with "They do the same thing!"
You're smarter than that JDP.
Do you live in the south by chance? Were you raised to think a certain way, which you now have no inclination to look beyond?
Just curious.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
“ You're smarter than that JDP.”
And you have that opinion for exactly what reason?
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John D. Partin
The answer is given to you in my post below. You are, supposedly, smarter than to "think" the way that you do, but that doesn't stop you from talking all that nonsense.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You weren't the one being asked JDP.
So much for my estimation of your intelligence.
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John D. Partin
This is, of course, a new concept to you, as is most of the rest of reality, but this is a party line, not a personal call between "Dr." Zerpersande and you, and so anything that he says about me, he also says to me, out of the side of his mouth and glancing sideways at me, and so is open to being commented on by me. It's very sad that that is way over your head, but that is the truth of the matter.
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John D. Partin
It wasn't the entire white race that used the black race for 400 years, which is the same fudging (another term for BS!) and oversimplification that the black racists make about it and so feel "justified" in calling all white people "beneficiaries of slavery" and saying that "all white people are racists" and get you and other white people to agree with through white guilting all of you into agreeing with whatever they say, no matter how obviously stupid it is!!!
Thanks for showing us all your white victimization so quickly!! You are also smarter than to be just going along with black racists' idiotic propaganda and victimization of you, but that doesn't stop you from doing it and letting your white guilt overwhelm your common sense and logic and reason!! They are very happy with your weakness and, as the Communists considered any people who aided their cause, think of you as "a useful idiot" and have a good laugh about you among themselves!!
It was and is the most vehement, outspoken, outrageous, and unprincipled among white people who used black people for 400 years, but, as usual with bigotry, the whole group gets condemned for its worst elements and they all get lumped together and considered "all the same and no damn good". You object to actual white racists' using that same generalizing against black people and saying that a few bad examples make "all of them no damn good", but have no problem with, unfairly and inconsistently, generalizing and racial profiling that same way about white people.
The abolitionist movement among white people didn't and couldn't possibly have come out of a white race that "totally hated and oppressed black people"! The same goes for white people who joined in support for the civil rights movement and marching along with black people and even being killed for those rights, none of which would have happened if "all white people hate and want to oppress black people".
Black Supremacists and racists "think" that no good things that any white people ever do for black people disprove that "all of them are racists and guilty for everything that has ever been done against black people", and that no evil things that any black people ever do against black people disprove that "they are the friends and dear brothers and sisters of black people or else just more victims of white oppression" and, again, get you and other white people to go along with their double standard and hypocrisy!!
Idi Amin, the former dictator of Uganda, killed and tortured and brutalized other black people like he was going to breakfast and cared nothing about them, but black supremacists would even prefer him over any white benefactor of their people whatsoever!! Where and how were you raised that such blatant hypocrisy and inconsistency don't bother you and have any friends of yours ever tried to make an intercession on you and get you deprogrammed from that cult "thinking"?!! Just curious.
I wasn't born in the south and am a northerner, but your "thinking" that someone's being geographically in the south is synonymous with and a "de facto admission of white racism" is itself bigotry against southerners and what you are accusing them of, and disproved by the Southern Poverty Law Center and other anti-racist and pro-civil rights organizations and individuals in the south.
It isn't ignoring any hereditary offense against black people to say that the N.O.I. and New Black Panthers Party and other groups and individuals are contributing to further offenses against black people by going back and forth with white racists with name calling, attitudes, and actions and keeping this stupid ball rolling and merry-go-round turning, instead of stopping playing with the ball and getting off the merry-go-round and never getting back on it again, and only judging people by the content of their characters, not by the color of their skin (black or white or any other color), as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. hoped that we would do, once again!! He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword. Keeping this nonsense going does nobody any good and it should just be allowed to die a merciful death!!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I've read it all before JDP, on the white supremacist blogs and forums it comes from.
There are powerful interests who want this historical debt forgotten once and for all.
You're on the wrong side of truth, the wrong side of morality, the wrong side of history..
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John D. Partin
You are also on the same "wrong side of truth, wrong side of morality, and wrong side of history" and "thinking the same as white supremacists", if you don't believe, any more than they do, that all white people are guilty for the actions of any of them.
And if you do believe that all white people are guilty for the actions of any of them, then you need to get "on the wrong side of truth and morality and history and agree with white supremacists as fast as possible" and get yourself deprogrammed from that idiocy and then cut yourself off from their idiocy before you take that nonsense into your head, too!!
Of course, I'm not actually advocating that you should agree with white supremacists, in their stupidity, but even those idiots can be right about a few things and our not being responsible for everything that any white people have ever done in history is one of those things that they are right about.
But go ahead and keep on guilting yourself into the ground over that and beating yourself up over it, if that is what floats your boat, and take my share of doing that, too, since I'll pass on that.
People not guilting themselves or beating themselves up over what other people have done isn't "forgetting about anything once and for all", but only blaming those who were directly responsible.
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John D. Partin
It isn't "this historical debt forgotten once and for all" for people not to guilt themselves into the ground and accept the blame for all other people who looked like them in the past and their actions, but just common sense, fairness, and justice.
You go ahead and guilt yourself into the ground and take the blame for all of that, if that makes sense to you to do, which shows us how senseless you are, but the rest of us will refrain from that!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Take the time to post just a small comment disagreeing with JDP. He’ll always compose a voluminous response. I don’t read them, just skim them quickly for something disagree about.
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John D. Partin
It's not my problem that any response longer than "if" is too long for you. Your only looking for things to disagree with in posts, instead of fairly, unbiasedly, and maturely considering them is your problem, too, but we have long ago learned not to expect maturity or fairness from you, which you aren't up to doing, and write these things to you for others' benefit, who aren't as limited as you are.
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Russel A. Kester
Wow, that was a very powerful post, and shows you've given more than a little thought about this. You made some very good points. Thank you.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
He has given no thought to this. It is standard white supremacist rhetoric.
Google 'White supremacist forums' and you will see what I mean.
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John D. Partin
You agree with white supremacists if you don't think that you are responsible for what other people are doing or that there is strength through joy and other just common sense ideas that even those idiots are able to figure out and stumble over once in a while. So, Google them for yourself and you will see that about yourself. That makes them agreeing with me and you agreeing with me, as your Right-wing brothers do, too, occasionally, not me agreeing with them about any obvious and common sense things.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Don't you ever get tired of trying to flip the script? You really are a one trick pony in that regard.
You literally repeat white supremacist rhetoric, but I "agree with white supremacists if you don't think that you are responsible for what other people are doing or that there is strength through joy and other just common sense ideas that even those idiots are able to figure out and stumble over once in a while"?
That is quite a jumble of nonsense, sounding very important but actually saying nothing at all.
You really do try to hard - and yes, YES, I know, I'm the one who tries to sound important but says nothing at all and tries too hard... rolleyes.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
‘ That is quite a jumble of nonsense, sounding very important but actually saying nothing at all.’
Yep, JDP was predicted by Shakespeare’s Macbeth..
‘….it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
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John D. Partin
You, least of all, should be calling anyone else an "idiot", considering your own being overwhelmed by any post in here longer than "if" and your only reading my or other people's posts to find things to disagree with, instead of reading them fairly, unbiasedly, and objectively, which are the height of stupidity, as I already commented on in a post that I submitted above.
People who live in glass houses should throw stones or you accuse me or anyone else of "idiocy", despite those examples above of your "thinking", and too many others that I could bring up.
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John D. Partin
Correction: People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The simplest approach is just to list your nonsense. - I didn’t say you were an idiot, quoted Shakespeare bc you came to mind. - That first ‘paragraph’, really just one long sentence of ‘word salad’ reminds me of the Zeppelin song ‘Ramble On’. - Yep, I just look for a single thought for a response. Another quote by Jean-Jaques Rousseau springs to mind ‘Ibwould find your argumentveasier to refute if you used words which made more sense.’ - ‘People in glass houses should throw stones.’ Really? Are you bouncing off the walls and spraying spittle in your rage? They SHOULD throw stones? - Once again, Rousseau posthumously comments on that last sentence. - Seens you have difficulty between the possessive form of the second person possessives and the contraction of ‘you are’. A common mistake of thebpoirlybeducated.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Just noticed in the email I received from ULC that you apparently got on a roll and made a great many posts today. Sorry, but I only read the one. Or at least what you present as a substitute for a post.
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John D. Partin
Nobody has to "flip the script" or "misconstrue" or "misinterpret" or "mis-anything" else that you are saying when you do a great job confusing your words and being a one trick pony all by yourself, and then transferring that onto others... ROLL EYES!!!!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
OH, I'm the one-trick pony. Missed that one!
ROFL!!!!!
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John D. Partin
You miss everything and just aren't too observant or sensible at all. So, why would that be an exception?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Again with the conservative magical thinking and magic spells.
"You miss everything! Alla - Kazam!"
"You aren't observant! Alla - Kazam!"
"You miss everything! Alla - Kazam!"
Again you demonstrate your self-perceived control and mastery! YOU are the authority here - just as intended! Because truth, fact, honesty, morality mean NOTHING to you - only dominance and subjugation of these "two-bit punks" who are constantly nipping at your heels.
You ain't seen nothin' yet.
Try me.
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John D. Partin
You really shouldn't embarrass and humiliate yourself by such transparent and childish comments and attempts at manipulation and controlling the conversation as in your post here, but when have you ever listened to advice and heeded it to stop doing that? Never since we have been talking.
Again, your not admitting to being unobservant and missing everything aren't the same thing at all as not actually doing so, except in your delusional "thinking". God is the Authority here, as is intended and as could never be otherwise, and as you really know, too.
You further embarrass and humiliate yourselves by admitting that you are two-bit punks "nipping at heels". Thanks for that admission about yourselves, but we all already knew that about you, anyway.
I have seen nothing from either of you and will continue to see nothing from you, no matter how much you try to aggrandize yourselves and lie about it. Nobody needs to "try you" because you are always too eager to show all of us how weak and pathetic you are.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yes, yes - as I said - YOU are the Master and Commander here - GOD commands it!
Everyone can see JDP.
Do enjoy your superiority.
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John D. Partin
Thank you very much for your comment and you are very welcome, too
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
I’ll agree with you here, it’s part of the human condition. Us vs them. Chimps wage war on other groups of chimps. It’s evolutionary advantageous. Biology. Nature.
Then there’s the sociological aspect of it. Then there is nurture. Even when we should have evolved, momma and daddy teach their children really screwed up ideas.
Like religion. All babies are born atheistic. They lack belief. And depending on where mommy and daddy were born, there’s the delusional beleifs the child will be taught.
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John D. Partin
You haven't even admitted to and are incapable of seeing the delusional beliefs and really screwed up ideas of atheists and humanists, which everyone else not suffering from your closed-mindedness and bigotry against Christianity and your afflictions sees very clearly. So, you are also incapable of objectively viewing Christians and Christianity when you can't or won't do that with atheists and humanists, and so your condemning of Christianity is pure bigotry and hypocrisy.
You operate on the Us vs. Them and Monkey See/Monkey Do principle by following the worldly unthinking herd in its atheism and disbelief, and so have no business accusing anyone else of what you are doing.
Babies, most certainly, are born loving, trusting, and believing in God, but just not knowing dogmas or theology, which aren't required for doing those things. They only stop doing those things as they are corrupted by the world out of their faith and love. It is atheism that is unnatural, but believing in God is our first condition in life and the angels of the babies in Heaven always look upon the face of God.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
What ‘ delusional beliefs and really screwed up ideas of atheists and humanists’ are you referencing?
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John D. Partin
Their delusion that a mindless universe is doing anything for itself and even created itself (before it was even here to do that, which is a logical impossibility and ridiculous) when you can't even get another mindless object (your car) to do anything for itself and drive itself and pump its own gas and change its own oil and make repairs on itself.
Yet, you have convinced yourselves, in your desperation for any answer other than God, than the infinitely bigger, but no smarter than your car, universe is doing everything for itself and "changing its oil, pumping its gas, repairing itself, and driving itself" without any mind behind it, which is just mind-bogglingly lopsided and illogical!!
Actual reason and logic declare that what you can't even get inanimate and mindless objects here on Earth to do for themselves, you can forget all about the whole rest of the universe doing for itself and that it needs a mind guiding it and doing things for it as much as or far more than your car and other objects need your or other people's minds behind them to guide them and do things for them. That is consistent thinking, instead of your double standard and inconsistent "thinking".
If you find a house in the woods and didn't see it built, you don't jump to the conclusion that it just grew up out of the ground and built itself because that never happens and is illogical and unreasonable, but you can see the infinitely more complex than any house universe and because you and other people haven't seen it made, you jump to the conclusion that "it must have just made itself and be regulating and controlling itself because I don't and can't see anything doing that for it", which is, again, mind-bogglingly lopsided and illogical!!
The reason why you admit to a house having a builder, while denying that the far more complex universe has a builder and controller, is because admitting that about a house doesn't make any demands on your life or impose on your mastery of your life, whereas, admitting that the universe has a builder and controller would make demands on your life and impose on and eliminate your "mastery" over your life and make you no longer the greatest person and center of your universe and little world. That is the real reason for that discrepancy and lopsided "thinking".
The delusion and really screwed up ideas that "man is all that there is and there is nothing beyond him or beyond this life and world", which the Nazis followed through to its logical conclusion, as far as they could and based on physical race, and the Communists followed to its logical conclusion, as far as they could and based on economic factors and considerations over human dignity and recognition of people's spiritual value.
The delusion and screwed up "thinking" of denying spiritual realities beyond this world, despite evidence of them abundantly in this world, and of spiritual and moral values beyond whatever people feel like doing or following, as shown by scoffers at any evidence of paranormal phenomena and closed mindedness against anything beyond their very narrow "thinking" and bigotry!!
All of you have far too many delusions and screwed up ideas than can be listed in one post in this blog, but here is a start of them and I will list more as we go along.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Ahhh, you simply don’t understand that definition of delusional and that consideration is being given to placing religion on the spectrum of mental disorders.
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John D. Partin
Not agreeing with your closed-minded, one-sided, and double standard "thinking" and definition of "delusional" that tells you that you are "always right" and others are "always wrong" is the same, in your confusion, as "simply not understanding it".
The insane Communists and Nazis, as shown by their purges and genocide, considering Christianity to be a "mental disorder" shows how ridiculous and hypocritical that assessment of it by you and other atheists is, but, of course, you don't believe that those atheistic Communists and Nazis were insane. Get some help for yourself very soon!!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Additionally you’re looking at the universe and stating someone had to make it so it was god. The First Cause issue. It is perplexing. But your answers solved squat all. Explain the origin of god.
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John D. Partin
God "needing an origin" would still leave us without a beginning to the universe, but only an endless retrogression of things creating other things, and the universe never happening. The universe itself "always existing" still leaves us with the problem of mindless matter and forces not being able to regulate and guide themselves. So, the only logical possibility for the existence of the universe is a non-contingent intelligent First Cause, but your closed-mindedness against Christianity will never allow you to even consider that, much less accept it. So, stay in your bigotry!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Ahh, your solution to First Cause is simply to accept a watered down version of ‘God did it’.
This clearly goes to the previous comment of ‘You’re smarter than that.’ and my response being that you weren’t.
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John D. Partin
As I have told you before, all that you or any other atheist ever needs to do to prove me wrong in saying that there is a non-contingent Creator of the universe and that mindless matter and forces can't do that job is to show me and others here even a small example of a mindless thing doing things for itself, such as your car driving itself without a person behind the wheel, and getting its own gas, and making repairs on itself.
So, what's the hold-up with coming up with that example, which should be easy if the universe really works the way that you say that it does? What you can't even do here on Earth, you can forget all about the rest of the universe doing, and then the universe works the way that I and reason say that it does: with God running it. I'll be looking forward to reading about your example and the verification of it.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
That's a completely specious argument. You haven't explained the universe, you just explained it away, IMAGINING your explanation actually explains anything, which it doesn't.
I just love it when non-scientific minds try to sound scientific - it always just exposes their incredible ignorance and naivete.
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John D. Partin
You don't even know the truth about yourself or what you are really saying and so are incapable of knowing the truth about anything or anyone else or that any arguments are "specious", which you can't even figure out about your own statements or arguments.
You also don't know what an unscientific mind is, as shown by your not knowing that you have one, and are always exposing your incredible ignorance and naivete, while trying to sound "scientific". This is just the truth rightfully out back on you where it belongs, not that "rubber and glue" bs.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
And as I have told you before, you can’t demand that First Cause be demonstrated for the universe when none is provided for your ‘god’. Using a watered-down description for god still requires a cause for that watered-down god.
If you are sincere in wanting a response, try the book by Krauss, ‘A Universe From Nothing’.
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John D. Partin
That is actually your admission that a non-contingent intelligent First Cause is responsible for the universe or you would provide that example of a mindless thing running and taking care of itself. That's great that you finally came out with that admission, which is the first step to your full recovery and return to the Church, the same as an alcoholic admitting that he has a problem with drinking is his first step to recovery. Congrats and much more progress for you on the path to Christ!!
A book by a wrongheaded atheist is no more an actual dismissal of God than anything that you in your former atheism before your recovery or others still stuck in that stupidity have said here and so a big waste of time!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
My admission? I find no reason whatsoever to entertainment your delusional belief. I will stop at the point of the big bang for the moment. We know the universe exists.
And you won’t like Krauss…
“ Of course, supernatural acts are what miracles are all about. They are, after all, precisely those things that circumvent the laws of nature. A god who can create the laws of nature can presumably also circumvent them at will. Although why they would have been circumvented so liberally thousands of years ago, before the invention of modern communication instruments that could have recorded them, and not today, is still something to wonder about.”
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John D. Partin
Get and read these books, if you aren't too afraid to do so.
(1) Is Atheism Dead? by Eric Metaxas
(2) The Rage Against God: How Atheism Led Me to Faith by Peter Hitchens
(3) Atheism on Trial: Refuting the Modern Arguments Against God by Louis Markos
(4) Against Atheism: And its Scientific and Rational Pretensions by Oscar Priyanand
(5) Answering the New Atheism: Dismantling Dawkins' Case Against God by Scott Hahn
(6) Answering the Music Man: Dan Barker's Arguments Against Christianity by B. Kyle Keltz
(7) Answering Atheism: How To Make The Case For God With Logic and Charity by Trent Horn
(8) The Gods of Atheism by Fr. Vincent Micelli, S.J
(9) Believing Is Seeing: A Physicist Explains How Science Shattered His Atheism and Revealed the Necessity of Faith by Michael Guillen, PhD
(10) New Proofs For The Existence of God by Fr. Robert J. Spritzer
(11) Finding God in Science: Extraordinary Evidence for the Soul and Christianity --- A Rocket Scientist's Gripping Odyssey by Michael O'Connell
(12) Energy Is, Therefore God Could Be: Modern Science Refutes Atheism by Patrick McGrath
(13) The Dawkins' Delusion? Atheist Fundamentalism and the Denial of the Divine by Alister McGrath and Joanna Collicutt McGrath
(14) The End of Reason: A Response to the New Atheists by Ravi Zacharias
(15) The Case For Faith: A Journalist Investigates the Toughest Objections to Christianity by Lee Strobel
(16) The Last Superstition: A Refutation of the New Atheism by Edward Feser
(17) There Is No God: How The World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind by Anthony Flew
(18) Return of the God Hypothesis: Three Scientific Discoveries That Reveal The Mind Behind the Universe by Stephen C. Meyer
(19) The Language of God:A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief by Francis S. Collins
(20) Stealing From God: Why Atheists Need God to Make Their Case by Frank Turek
Or do you think, illogically, that only books that argue against religion are "scientific" or that you know more about the subject or are "smarter" than all of these people? Let's see how smart you are and if you can admit that you are wrong, like a man.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Faith is not science JDP.
To think otherwise is delusional.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
JDP found this list somewhere and copied/pasted. Next he’ll break the commandment against bearing false witness and say he has read these.
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John D. Partin
"A SCIENTIST Presents Evidence For Belief by Francis S. Collins", "Three SCIENTIFIC Discoveries That Reveal The Mind Behind The Universe by Stephen C. Meyer", "Modern SCIENCE Refutes Atheism by Patrick McGrath", "Finding God in SCIENCE by Michael O'Connell", "A Physicist Explains How SCIENCE Shattered His Atheism and Revealed the Necessity of Faith by Michael Guillen PhD", and the rest of these books and any other 2,000 or 2,000,000 books that I could cite to you, mentioning science or clearly by scientists, in their titles, refuting atheism, would be dismissed by you, due to your conceit and bigotry that nobody else even knows what science is and that anything refuting atheism is automatically because of that "unscientific". I told you that you would do that when I gave you the list!!
You are indulging in ad hominem fallacy and accusations against these writers because you don't like what they are saying against atheism and against your sense of identity and so attack them, instead of considering their arguments and books fairly. Whatever degrees they have don't disqualify them from being able to refute such obvious irrationality and stupidity as are found in atheism, since they can answer questions outside of their formal fields and have interest in and knowledge of matters outside of those fields, sufficiently to provide intelligent and correct answers.
If they were working in Starbucks (and they are very much more intellectually qualified and distinguished than that), refutation is refutation, which you can only find out by actually getting their books and giving them a fair and unbiased reading (if you are even capable of doing that and aren't too cowardly to do it!!) if they have succeeded in refuting your book recommended to me. So, their fields are irrelevant.
I already know that atheism is a big lie and a crock, and so don't need any more convincing about that and those books would be useless to me and just more preaching to the choir, but I gave that list to people who haven't figured that out yet, to try to help them get much smarter, too, about what a fraud and idiocy atheism is, that is, if they can smarten up at all!!
So, again, get and read those books with an open mind and not determined to find them "wrong" before you even read them, no matter what they say, and stop your ad hominem attacks, or don't even bother, since you have already decided without a trial and considering the evidence.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Have you ever considered stopping while you're ahead JDP?
You just got your rear handed to you BIG TIME.
You can deny it all you want - but everybody else has eyes. Everybody else can see.
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John D. Partin
The ungodly have always said that they were "beating the forces of godliness" and "handing them their rear ends", and always will, but it isn't true, has never been true, and can never be true, except in their distorted, upside down, and Inverted "thinking" because God is always the victor and can never be anything other than the victor, no matter what lies you tell yourselves!!! Let God be true and every man opposed to Him a LIAR!! Amen!!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Ahhh, JDP pontificating about liars when he himself was just caught in the act.
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John D. Partin
Calling books refuting atheism based on science by scientists, regardless of their fields, isn't lying about them because science belongs to us all and not only to those people with certain degrees or in certain fields or from certain colleges. So, it is, as usual, it is you two who have been caught in lies, snobbishness, and inability to comprehend such distinctions, and merely transferring what you are doing and what is wrong with you onto me or other people.
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John D. Partin
Those writers' colleges have even less to do with their books' being valid arguments against atheism, as they are, than their fields or degrees do, and is just a demonstration of your snobbishness against them!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
No, my comment was solely about you claiming them to be be scientists when a quick check proved you to be lying through your teeth.
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John D. Partin
Scientists are any people who are stating science and scientific truth and rationality, for the purpose of refuting atheism in their books or talks, regardless of their fields, and so it is you and Kenny who are lying through your teeth by denying that they are scientists and showing your lack of comprehension and snobbishness, and merely transferring what you are doing and what is wrong with you two onto me and other people.
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John D. Partin
Those are books by scientists and about science that led them to faith, not starting with faith and ending in science. It is delusional for you not to be able to understand that. Get and read those books yourself before you dismiss books that you haven't even read, out of fear that they will shake up your little world and open up your closed mind.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
These books are by scientists? The first guy has a degree in English. The last guy on the list a ‘Doctor of Ministry’ from a seminary school. JDP is just making up s**t to support his religious beliefs. I’m betting he has a red hat he wears regularly.
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John D. Partin
Once again, scientists are any people who are starting science and scientific truth for refuting atheism, regardless of their fields! Get a clue! It is you two who are making up s**t to support your irreligious and atheistic beliefs and merely transferring what you are doing and what is wrong with you onto me and other people. You two are wearing secular and atheistic red caps as self-made "Cardinals" of your atheist religion!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Delving deeper in JDP’s list of ‘Books by Scientists’ #10’s a Bachelor of Business Administration degree with a focus on public accounting and finance from Gonzaga University. Wow! Business Administration! That sure qualifies him to speak on the topic of why I don’t believe in Bronze Age fairy tales. What kind of school is Gonzaga U? It8s a private Jesuit university. Ahhh, that school must really churn out scientists.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
So the first, last and middle are not scientists as JDP claimed. Okay, last effort. Let’s try middle of last half, Edward Feser’s book. Wiki says… ‘Feser holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from the University of California at Santa Barbara, an M.A. in religion from the Claremont Graduate School, and a B.A. in philosophy and religious studies from the California State University at Fullerton. His thesis is titled "Russell, Hayek, and the Mind-Body Problem".[2] He also went to Crespi High School in California.’
So he has three degrees, all in philosophy and religion. Not a single scientific degree among them.
Oh, WAIT! LOOK!
He also went to Crepi H.S. In California. THAT changes everything.
Praise Cheeses! The ignorant Bronze Age desert goat herders were right!
You are flat out lying, JDP. I brush your dust off the soles of my feet. Begone!
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John D. Partin
They are still disproving atheism scientifically outside of their fields and degrees, as anyone can do and as you are claiming to "do", though not being a scientist in the approved fields and with the approved degrees, according to you, either, and so what it doesn't stop you from doing, it doesn't stop the authors on my list from doing.
Science to disprove atheism is available to everyone, even with only philosophy and religious studies degrees or from certain colleges, which only shows your snobbishness toward those authors, not any invalidity in their books, which there isn't, as proven by their correctly refuting atheism, and their books would only be invalid scientifically if they "supported atheism".
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John D. Partin
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
‘ Those are books by scientists and about science that led them to faith,’
No, they are not written by scientists. At least the first, last and middle. Not going to check them all. Not necessary to show that you are a liar.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
So you admit you don't know a faith based argument when you see one.
That explains a lot.
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John D. Partin
You and "Dr" Zerpersande are both too cowardly to read those books that I mentioned to him because they would shake up your little worlds and open up your closed minds, which you don't want to risk doing. That is the only way that you could ever really know that their arguments are "faith based" and not science based. So, prove that you aren't cowardly by reading the books, since, otherwise, you are too cowardly to read them.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Ahhh. You ask me for an answer to First Cause, I present a theory that addresses such, and you respond with a list of yet more books proselytizing religion.
Such proselytizing reminds me of AA’s text and it8s chapter on ‘We Agnostics’.
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John D. Partin
I presented a list of books that refute your book's "explanation" and you merely dismiss any books that refute atheism as "proselytizing religion" because you are incapable of being objective about them and don't want to take the chance that they will cause you to have any doubts about atheism or invalidate your sense of identity.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You presented a list of books you said ‘are books by scientists’. That was an outright lie. Mr. Magic said don’t lie.
You will lie to suit your purposes. Get thee behind me Satan!
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John D. Partin
Any books that are using true science to refute atheism are by scientists, for the purpose of those books, regardless of their degrees or fields, because true science is for everyone and makes the one using it a scientist, in that matter. Only false "science" supports atheism, since it is a lie!! True science supports God, while false "science" supports atheism. I didn't lie, but expected you to know the difference and the context of their being scientists, which you aren't up to knowing at your stage of development, and I merely clarified that for you and Kenny and other confused and dishonest people here.
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John D. Partin
Jesus Christ isn't "Mr. Magic" (and all mockeries, blasphemies, and idle words will be paid for on the Judgment Day, as you will, very sadly, find out for yourself!) and "Get thee behind me, Satan" is only rightfully said by Christ and his followers to Satan and his followers, not by them mockingly back against Christ and his followers. More for you to pay for.
You and Kenny are still too cowardly to read those books unbiasedly for yourselves and find out if they are scientific or faith based, but can only make childish comments and mockeries here about them. We understand that you don't have any choice other than to do that because of your immaturity and cowardice about shaking up your little worlds and contradicting your sense of identity.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
‘ More for you to pay for.’
Oooh! Those “My God gonna’ getcha’.” claims worry me so much. Just like all the claims of Jesus coming back on specific dates. Dates that don’t pan out.
THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS!
Can the non-delusional say that Johnny?
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John D. Partin
Only the delusional, such as yourself, can say THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS to Christians, while your whole "thinking and life" are based on lies and you are bearing false witness to the world!! You are only mocking the punishment for your sins because you aren't there yet paying for them fully, but you won't be mocking them any longer when you are there, and will only be screaming and crying and gnashing your teeth, the same as everyone else there will be doing!!
It's easy for you or anyone to talk all of that mockery right now and proves nothing. Talk to me in a hundred years when you are there and I'm in Heaven, looking down on you, as the rich man in Hell spoke to Abraham in Heaven, and we will see what you have to say then!!
People shouldn't be guessing about when Jesus will return and so brought those wrong guesses on themselves because Jesus clearly said that no man and not even the son knows the day, but only our Father in Heaven, and so shouldn't worry about that.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
“Jesus Christ isn't "Mr. Magic" “
I agree, that would be god.
Jesus is the result of god wanting to save the world from himself. So he raped a teenage virgin in order to give birth to himself as his own son. This would allow himself to die for a 3-day weekend (not much of a ‘death’, is that?) so that when he came back to life he could forgive anyone who that say that believe all of that.
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John D. Partin
You are wrong again or just still, as always. There was no rape involved in Mary's surrendering herself to God's will and saying "Let it be done unto me, according to your word". No rape victim is willingly and uncoercedly saying that to her attacker, but you are incapable of understanding loving submission and the loving response of Mary to God and so can only consider it "rape" because these things are spiritually perceived, and you have cut yourself off from that perception.
Jesus died to save people from themselves and their sins, not from God, which your spiritual blindness again keeps you from understanding properly. It isn't the worldly measure of time that determines the value of Jesus' death on the cross because that was in eternity. Trying to explain this to you or other atheists is like trying to describe colors to a blind from birth man. You don't have the means of being able to understand it. So, you and Kenny stick with small minded things that you can grasp, as much as you ever do anything at all, and leave the bigger matters to those who can understand them.
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John D. Partin
Correction: 10# New Proofs For The Existence of God by Fr. Robert J. Spitzer
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John D. Partin
The First Cause of God is proven, once again, for all of you not very bright folks in the cheap seats, by the existence of the universe and the fact that it has no mind of its own to create and regulate itself, and so needs a non-contingent intelligent Being to do that for it.
The book that you recommended to me (A Universe From Nothing by Krauss, which is shown to be utterly ridiculous by its title alone and so can only get worse inside, trying to make "sensible" what is clearly stupid!!) is more than sufficiently refuted by those 20 books that I told you about, but which you are far too cowardly to ever read with an open mind and can only make ad hominem attacks on!!!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
“ The First Cause of God is proven”
JDP, please submit this to the Nobel Prize committee. You’re a sure winner.
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John D. Partin
You didn't include the rest of my statement about the First Cause of God, but, as you always do, take things out of context and twist and misconstrue them. You are only ever sarcastic and game playing. The Nobel Prize committee would be atheists, too, and not convinced by the order in the universe, anymore than you are.
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John D. Partin
You don't even know yourself and how deeply unintelligent you are and so, obviously, can't tell about anyone else what you can't tell even about yourself. You just aren't that bright, considering the severely stupid things that you believe and accept as "true".
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John D. Partin
You are certainly very unintelligent, as you demonstrate abundantly by your atheism, which is the most idiotic "thinking" that has ever been conceived by man. You could begin to discover how stupid it is by reading those 20 books that I mentioned to you, but both you and Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson are far too cowardly to ever do that because that would open up your closed minds and destroy your little worlds and you don't want to risk that!!!
The only way that you both can prove that you're not too cowardly to read those books is by reading them and giving proof that you have done so because nobody is going to just take your word that you did so. Quote some paragraphs from the books, which I will check later, and give your lame objections to them, to show further how idiotic atheism is!! Otherwise, too cowardly!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
I spent my college years being taken to a Full Gospel church 2-3 times a week. Nice people, but totally delusional when it came to their religious beliefs. So I’ve had more than enough exposure to what you believe.
You, on the other hand….
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John D. Partin
But it didn't get through to you or stick or you would still be there. That isn't the fault of the teaching or anything else wrong with it, but only with your not surrendering yourself to it. You haven't had more than enough or even enough exposure to it if you haven't accepted it and surrendered to it. And I have had too much exposure to ungodliness and worldliness, which is what has made me reject them!!
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John D. Partin
Your only token, superficial, and insincere involvement with that Full Gospel church is further shown by the fact that the first Christians endured persecution, torture, and death rather than give up their faith, but all that it takes to make you and other not really committed "Christians" give up your "faith" is a little trouble or seeing some people who aren't living up to it or God's not being a jinn in a lamp that you rub and his instantly granting your wishes, and your microscopic "faith" goes flying away and you dismiss it all as "fraud and lies"!!
No persistence or fortitude whatsoever!! Fair weather "Christians", such as you were playing at being back in your time at the Full Gospel church, aren't any Christians at all. You never gave Christianity a chance with you, and then say that "it's not true and doesn't work", which you really have no way of personally knowing for yourself. That is your version of "being scientific and rational" about it, the same as all those who never gave it a chance and then condemned it. Christianity hasn't been tried and found wanting, but has been found difficult and left untried by you and millions of other people.
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John D. Partin
You don't have any ground for saying that anyone else isn't smart, considering your own being overwhelmed by any post longer than "if", and only skimming posts to find things to disagree with, instead of fairly, unbiasedly, and objectively reading them, and your idiotic atheism, and everything else that is wrong with you!! People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!
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Troels Qvist
Really there is alot of non white religions having the same issues i belive you are being the racist 🤣
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
There are a lot of non-white religions having the same issue that they have to recognize white supremacy as a religion?
That racism sure gets around, doesn't it.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
I think another person recognized it as a people issue at the core. Yes, there are all kinds of groups declaring all kinds of supremacy over someone else. But those groups exist because of the people in them. People like myself do not think that way, therefore would never belong to any group that is hate based. Personally, I believe ghose two inmates should not have been approved because hate is the base. God knows they never needed to be approved. People will believe as they will anyway, which is sad most of the time, so will gather together informally. I have often been called names and judged by conservatives for my gnostic beliefs. Yet I would never join any group that promoted hate or harm against conservative fundamentals. That is just not who I am. It always goes back to people and how they think and what they are willing to act on for the sake of their personal mindsets.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
@L-AN “ Yet I would never join any group that promoted hate or harm against conservative fundamentals.” Would you grant the same freedom to groups that espoused hate/harm against groups of people whose transgressions were simply limited to doing things that go against the delusional beliefs of the hate group?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Omg. Quit using communist philosophy that you were indoctrinated with. You make me puke. Many religions and history had a patriarchal society until.time came to change it. So quit crying the freaking victim. Instead use yoyr time to truly center on something that really needs attention and that is the trafficking of children for sex. Study some history and quit crying victim.
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Takaya, no black people ever should have been made to feel that they needed to get off the sidewalk so a white person could pass, look down when a white person was talking or run to opposite corners so that white people wouldn't get scared, but those humiliations are what all people are subjected to in this world, not just black people, because of the curse on our fallen world, due to our disobedience to and rejection of God.
Jews were also made to get off sidewalks and walk in the gutters by the Nazis and anti-Semites before them, who told them that the sidewalks were reserved for Christians or Aryans, not to mention the six million Jews who died in the Holocaust. One story tells about a Jew who had his hat knocked off by a "Christian" and was then asked "When are you going to become a Christian?", to which he replied "When are you?". Christianity is proved by acting Christian and following Christ's teachings and example, not by just calling yourself "Christian". By their fruits you will know them.
Chinese people were discriminated against and shown disrespect and humiliated, too, when they were employed in the building of the railroads, as were the Irish people, building those same railroads, because of prejudices against Irish people and were called "Micks" and considered "drunkards", "potato eaters", and "stupid Catholics" by the English and here. Chinese people separated into their own communities called "Chinatowns" because of that prejudice. Asians are targeted for attacks and discriminated against today.
Women and children and the elderly have been and are discriminated against, and the women and children in sexual harassment and sex trafficking. Italian Americans have been discriminated against and the subjects of prejudices, being lumped in with Mafiosi. Hispanic Americans have been discriminated against and the subjects of prejudices.
The Japanese were discriminated against in W.W.II and were put into internment camps because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, though they had nothing whatsoever to do with that and were only "guilty" by association. Even white people in history have been discriminated against and oppressed in the British Isles when the Romans ruled there B.C. and A.D.
How is a problem not going to affect race relations between black and white people, which is affecting everyone else? It isn't going to not affect them.
I know that you have read and been touched by my telling you about the consequences for hating white or any people, since black people hate some other black people, too, but the penalty for the doing that is the same, no matter who you hate or why you hate them. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11). Any people who put their race or hate or wills above God are idolaters and will not inherit the kingdom of God.
How much is it worth to you to go on hating white people? Is it really worth being tormented out of your mind forever to do that and, as I said, the devils' putting you on a plantation for eternity and subjecting you to all kinds of humiliations and tortures under devils passing for white slavemasters? That would just be more of those white racists' screwing you over!! Why would you want that and forever, too?!!
But that is what is what is waiting for you at the end of that road of hating white or any other people. It isn't intelligent for anyone to keep walking toward a burning building, despite warnings from many other people not to do that and getting burned up and killed, but it is far less intelligent to keep walking toward Hell and not listening to warnings against it.
Please don't take a chance of that happening to you. Today is the accepted time and day of salvation. Forgive if you want to be forgiven or else you won't be, and will regret that forever!! You won't be able to say that nobody ever warned you about this when you look back on this in eternity because I'm doing that now. This is my trying to show you love and concern for your soul.
The soul is more important than the body because when the soul is removed from the body, all that you have is a dead body lying on the ground. When the bones and organs and what is under the skin are removed, all that you have is a lump of skin lying on the ground. So, what is under the skin, that we all have in common, and our souls animating our bodies are more important than the skin and the body and more who we really are!!
Enough said for now. Have a great day and God bless you.
Racism against any people not only has those indulging in it sending themselves to Hell, but denying themselves Heaven, and they have only themselves to blame. You said that I should "go and preach this to my white counterparts", but it needs to be preached to you, too, and all other people who are practicing racism.
We say in Confession "Oh, my God, I am heartily sorry for my sins because I dread the pains of Hell and the loss of Heaven, but most of all because they offend you, my God, Who are all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of your grace, to sin no more and to avoid the near occasions of sin. Amen". Make that your prayer and mean it and you will come out of all that racism against white people or hatred of any other people nonsense.
You can't wait until everyone else is thinking and acting rightly to do that yourself or you will be waiting forever, but have to think and act and speak rightly now and not moo and amble along with the worldly herd, and the flesh, and the Devil. You aren't responsible for what they are doing, but only for what you are doing and won't be condemned for what they are doing, unless you go along with them in their thinking and actions and speaking.
You also won't be able to stand before God on the Judgment Day and point at what other people did as an excuse for yourself because He will tell you "I'll deal with all of them, but I'm talking with you now and asking: 'did you show love to all people or only your own and did you accept Jesus into your heart and live by his teachings and example?'" Your answer to those questions will determine how you will be judged and where you will spend your eternity.