In the world of evangelical Christianity, Robert Morris is a superstar. He is the senior pastor of Gateway Church in Fort Worth, Texas, a megachurch attended by 100,000 people each Sunday with nine campuses in Texas. He’s the author of several books, and was even courted by then-President Donald Trump to join his spiritual advisory board in 2016. Trump attended a service at Gateway Church as recently as June 2020.
Morris hosts a television show airing in 190 countries, and has a radio program broadcast in 6,800 markets nationwide. Hundreds of thousands listen to his sermon every week.
Now, in a few days, his empire has been shattered by a shocking admission. Pastor Morris recently apologized for an inappropriate sexual relationship with a child when he was in his 20s.
Morris has since resigned from Gateway Church. So far, however, he has faced no legal consequences for his actions. Not only that, but stunning details about the original allegations and their aftermath have also come to light.
All this has led critics to ask: are there two tiers of justice – one for regular people, and another for faith leaders?
The Abuse Begins
Pastor Morris admitted to "inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady" some 35 years ago, when he was 21. Morris came clean after the victim, Cindy Clemishire, went public with the allegations.
One thing he forgot to mention? She was 12 years old.
Morris was a young preacher at Clemishire’s church, already married, and a man she viewed as “safe and friendly.” But that changed on Christmas Day, 1982, when he was staying at Clemishire’s parents’ home and covertly invited her to his room. "Never tell anyone about this because it will ruin everything,” he warned her. Clemishire says he touched her genitals and breasts. The abuse continued for another four years.
When she turned 16, Clemishire says Morris tried to escalate the abuse to sexual intercourse, though was not successful. Clemishire told a family friend, who encouraged her to tell her parents, which she did. When Morris’ wife found out, he resigned from the ministry for two years.
“My father told him he’s lucky he didn’t kill him,” Clemishire said.
The Church’s Response
After Clemishire went public with the abuse earlier this month, Morris’s Gateway Church seemingly downplayed the allegations at first, describing the abuse as a “moral failure” he’s since biblically atoned for.
“Pastor Robert has been open and forthright about a moral failure he had over 35 years ago when he was in his twenties and prior to him starting Gateway Church. He has shared publicly from the pulpit the proper biblical steps he took in his lengthy restoration process,” they wrote in a statement to Christian Post.
Morris himself also seemed to admit to then brush off the allegations, saying that "I submitted myself to the Elders of Shady Grove Church and the young lady's father. They asked me to step out of ministry and receive counseling and freedom ministry, which I did."
“It was confessed and repented of,” he said.
This response failed to satisfy critics, however. After the story blew up on social media, Morris was allowed by church elders to resign from his post. But so far, he’s faced no legal consequences for sexually abusing a 12-year-old when he was an adult.
As outrage grew, church elders seemingly had a change of heart.
"For the sake of the victim, we are thankful this situation has been exposed," they said in a subsequent statement. "We know many have been affected by this, we understand that you are hurting, and we are very sorry. It is our prayer that, in time, healing for all those affected can occur."
Morris stepped down just days later.
Shocking Emails Come to Light
Clemishire says she’s tried to get Morris to face some sort of legal consequences in the past. In 2005, she requested $50,000 from Gateway Church for counseling related to the abuse, but the church offered her $25,000 – and only on the condition she sign an NDA. Then, Morris’ attorney claimed Clemishire was partially responsible for the abuse because she was acting “flirtatious.”
A series of emails with Morris himself have since been released that contain other harrowing details. “Twenty-three years after you began destroying my life, I am still dealing with the pain and damage you caused,” Cindy Clemishire, 35 at the time, wrote to Morris in 2005. “I want some type of restitution. Pray about it and call me.”
Morris ended one reply with a legal threat.
“Debbie and I really do care for you and we sincerely want God’s best for you,” Morris wrote, referring to this wife. “My attorney advises that if I pay you any money under a threat of exposure, you could be criminally prosecuted and Debbie and I do not want that."
“Men that have over 100 counts of child molestation go to prison,” Clemishire wrote to Morris in one email. “Men who pastor churches that have over 100 counts of child molestation go to prison and pay punitive damages. You have not had to do either.”
Two Systems of Justice?
That last point has sparked widespread debate about the pastor's actions – and the lack of legal repercussions for them. Church leaders were made aware of the abuse at the time that it happened, but instead of reporting this crime to the police, they buried it and sent Morris to counseling.
Critics have not been shy about that point.
Rick Warren, founder of Saddleback Church, didn't mince words in his reaction to the news:
“[He] never should have been able to pastor again and should have gone to jail. You can repent and receive forgiveness but you have to deal with the consequences of sin,” wrote one commenter. “I feel so sorry for this victim.”
“I believe in forgiveness, but after jail time,” added another. “He should never again be in leadership of any kind in a church or school.”
Past clips of Morris speaking about age and maturity have also surfaced, raising further questions:
So far, it seems that the only repercussions Morris is facing are financial. He's now out of a job and affiliates are dropping his television and radio programs left and right.
His victim says it’s simply not enough. “I was 12 years old. I was a little girl. A very innocent little girl,” Clemishire explains. “[He] began grooming all of us to do this, which took me decades to wrap my brain around as an adult.”
What is your reaction?
110 comments
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September Artrea Calhoun
The tones of discussion in this feed are what is wrong with our world today. We are a mix of believers and unbelievers. Believers are to go to the Book of Wisdom (BiBLE) and see what it has to say. Unbelievers are led by their intellect, which we as believers are instructed not to “lean on our own understanding,” yet both believers and unbelievers join forces in this very act-LEANING-ON-YOUR-OWN-UNDERSTANDING. As a former member of Gateway Church, and one who wrote a letter to the church, as a warning received in prayer, this is what’s called “The Shaking” or SEPARATION OF WHEAT FROM THE TARES” Judgement will and has begun at The House of the LORD. In recent weeks in Texas alone 2 well-known pastors have stepped down. Dr. Tony Evan’s and Pastor Robert Morris.
As a victim and witness of abuse, as a child/adolescence, as one ages and the Skelton of scar comes to life, it can wreak havoc in life. Yes, it is my responsibility to seek healing and help, however, observing a person go seemingly free and unpunished is hard to bear and can sometimes send a person backwards instead of forwards To see Robert Morris in any capacity of daily life has to be traumatic for this victim and that is something that we should all take into consideration. Imagine the most shameful years dangled before you on a level that Robert Morris has been postured to?
Now back to scripture I’m going refer to Matthew 18:6-7
“ If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!”
While I am thankful that these 2 religious leaders are leading the charge of repentance in this country, we must all remember their actions are LOW-HANGING-FRUIT, meaning easy to spot, this place of judgment, is a space for US ALL to re-examine our lives and actions daily from telling of white-lies, sharing gossip, tale-bearing, mistreatment of the poor, needy and homeless, yes, I suggest to you all that not only are These Religious Leaders in the seat of judgement, but WE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ALL ARE. So, let’s all take a beat and examine our own lives and hearts here, because no one can fill the others lamp with oil, this is a process that one can only accomplish through spending an extraordinary amount of time in prayer and fasting unto The Great Creator- YHWH.
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Dorothy Hawkins
In hopes of sharing facts instead of popular myths: the answer on whether or not more children are being abused by homosexuals vs heterosexuals, numerous studies have found that the vast majority of them are heterosexual. A simple Google search will tell you so, and the sources aren't Wikipedia.
That said, in my opinion too many leaders of all stripes have gotten away with this for way too long without any responsibility for these heinous acts. Morris should never have had another position of responsibility after the first admission.
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September Artrea Calhoun
September Artrea Calhoun's Avatar September Artrea Calhoun (Delete Comment) Comment Pending Approval Jun 26, 2024 at 09:45 am (0 votes) The tones of discussion in this feed are what is wrong with our world today. We are a mix of believers and unbelievers. Believers are to go to the Book of Wisdom (BiBLE) and see what it has to say. Unbelievers are led by their intellect, which we as believers are instructed not to “lean on our own understanding,” yet both believers and unbelievers join forces in this very act-LEANING-ON-YOUR-OWN-UNDERSTANDING. As a former member of Gateway Church, and one who wrote a letter to the church, as a warning received in prayer, this is what’s called “The Shaking” or SEPARATION OF WHEAT FROM THE TARES” Judgement will and has begun at The House of the LORD. In recent weeks in Texas alone 2 well-known pastors have stepped down. Dr. Tony Evan’s and Pastor Robert Morris.
As a victim and witness of abuse, as a child/adolescence, as one ages and the Skelton of scar comes to life, it can wreak havoc in life. Yes, it is my responsibility to seek healing and help, however, observing a person go seemingly free and unpunished is hard to bear and can sometimes send a person backwards instead of forwards To see Robert Morris in any capacity of daily life has to be traumatic for this victim and that is something that we should all take into consideration. Imagine the most shameful years dangled before you on a level that Robert Morris has been postured to?
Now back to scripture I’m going refer to Matthew 18:6-7
“ If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!”
While I am thankful that these 2 religious leaders are leading the charge of repentance in this country, we must all remember their actions are LOW-HANGING-FRUIT, meaning easy to spot, this place of judgment, is a space for US ALL to re-examine our lives and actions daily from telling of white-lies, sharing gossip, tale-bearing, mistreatment of the poor, needy and homeless, yes, I suggest to you all that not only are These Religious Leaders in the seat of judgement, but WE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ALL ARE. So, let’s all take a beat and examine our own lives and hearts here, because no one can fill the others lamp with oil, this is a process that one can only accomplish through spending an extraordinary amount of time in prayer and fasting unto The Great Creator- YHWH.
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Walter J. Holbrook
I will try to keep my composure in this. How many other victims of these crimes only need to report to the church and not law enforcement. How many young men and women face ridicule from the church and its members for speaking out on abuse by clergy. How many families will fill abandon by the church if the speak up on a loved ones behave? Where the clergy is forgiven, but the victim is persecuted and shamed by the church to defend its territory. I did not say church because it is no longer "holy ground." The evangelical church is a breeding ground for sin. Do not get me wrong. Not all, but some. This the same with any faith. And these so-called men of the cloth hide behind the church for safety. Will law enforcement get involved, NOPE. Talking of this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The victim will be shamed saying she came onto him, and other liess will suface to destroy this family..
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Ashleigh Mitchell
Why should any Deity be merciful to him? (Although it seems to me that at least one is shielding him from legal repercussions.) ⛓️💥
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James Riggle-Johnson
It’s not a deity providing him with protection, its people protecting him and making excuses.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Let's not forget the acceptable sentiment that is widely applicable; 'Thought and prayers' That about covers it all For the victim, Thoughts and prayers For the molester Thoughts and prayers Everyone look under your chair Thoughts and prayers for everyone
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Gary Stephen Lowden
Another 'Christian' leader caught committing a heinous crime and a couple of churches more than happy to cover up. Excusing him saying he prayed for forgiveness and therefore end-of-story. Then they try to blame the 12 year old victim! Criminal charges should be brought. It's things like this that are bringing down organized religion and church attendance.
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Patricia Ann Gross
The way I understand the statute of limitations in Texas with regard to child molestation is that the child has 8 years after they become an adult to press charges (not sure if it is 18 or 21 though), so this particular case is past the point where he could be charged with a criminal offense, and requires the victim come forward to press charges. My info is old, (early 2000s when I was checking on it). The only thing she could do now is file a civil suit, and there may be limitations on time for that as well. Unfortunately that's the way our justice system works.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, thank you for that good, factual information. I read elsewhere that she has secured the services of Billy Graham's grandson to represent her in court. May true justice prevail.
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Wilberta M. Berry
As a person who has always been employed in vocations that requires me to report abuses of any kind. I can say from over 48 years of experience predators who are employed always picks jobs that enable them to be close to their prey. These jobs are usually ones that elicits a great deal of respect and trust from society. That is why it takes years in a lot of instances for these predators to be caught.🤷🏼♀️
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ServantOfJudgement
Thank you Wilberta!!!
This has been my point the entire time. Where there are children there are predators planning.
Parents beware. Don't ignore these obvious facts.
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Michele Avery
This disgusts me and causes fear in my heart as I read this watching my 9 year old grandaughter sleep. You, sir should still be in jail yet you have never had ANY legal consequences!!! I HATE WHAT YOU DID AND WHAT YOU CLAIM TO STAND FOR!!! May GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL!!!
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Thomas R King
In his case, I think we could find a used millstone.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Child molesters need to either go to jail or be put down like rabid animals. It does not matter how sorry he says he is, or whether he thinks he has atoned, he needs to go to jail. He is one of the worst type of predators and for him to get away with it is intolerable. Who knows how many other little girls there have been that have not reported him? Utter slime.
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ServantOfJudgement
Yep, give him a fair trial then escort him off the planet quick.
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James Mounts
I agree there should be 2 tiers of government. One tier for the general public, and one tier for anyone who breaches a public trust. Pastors, teachers, politicians, policemen etc. who think they are above the law should never again be free to abuse it. Jesus may forgive, the law should not.
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John P Maher
THIS IS NOT WHAT ANY GOD WOULD TOLERATE, CLERGY ALL , GOV. ALL, EXTREMELY LARGE % ARE PERVERTED in SOME WAY, DO NOT TALK of GOD WHEN the WORLD is TOTALLY PERVERTED !
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David Arthur Lewis
Who Would Jesus Rape?
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Russel A. Kester
If you'd made that remark about the prophet Muhammad, you'd best start running for your life. Now why is it so safe to write such a comment about the founder of one religion but not the other? Such a mystery.
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Merlin
“Biblically atoned” is the excuse for redemption allowing for continual support. We are seeing this on a national scale. Forgiveness is not a “get out of jail free card”.
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Nicholas J Page
How many more of this scumbag are out there posing as ministers
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Beth
Oh, he's a "real" minister. Most of them are. It's just that some ministers have these desires that violate modern society's rules. If we could just go back to the Bible teachings, where all he would have had to do is give her father a few sheckles and "marry" her.
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ServantOfJudgement
Every single day there are news headlines involving an adult molesting, raping or killing a child. Every day.
The people doing this are: Preachers, teachers, doctors, coaches, firefighters, parents, neighbors, illegal aliens, family, psychiatrists, principals, scout masters, siblings, military personnel, politicians, judges, cashiers, waiters, homeless, lab technicians, professors, social workers, construction workers, horse trainers. I missed a few, feel free to think of more, you won't be wrong.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I'll agree with that.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Yet another pastor brutally treating a child in their church. HUNDREDS of pastors are getting caught yearly now, and, FINALLY, getting reported. Multiple dioecies have massive files of thousands of priests that have been suspected of, or even caught, abusing young girls, and young boys, in this manner. And what do the churches do half the time? They go and try to move them to another church to try to hide them, and WHEN, not if, they do it again, the church again moves them somewhere else, until it becomes clear they can't hide them, and only THEN ... "oops, our bad, we should've turned this guy in". In the meantime he likely ends up with hundreds of victims over several YEARS, while they bleat about how "Drag Queen Story Hour is EVIL!" and how being LGBTQI+ is "grooming kids" and how Trans individuals are "nothing but predators... "tink off yer daughters!!!!"
While they know who the REAL predators are.
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Dawn
So very well said!
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Beth
It's become "Another day. Another pastor accused of child rape. Another pastor convicted of child rape." It's to the point that current statistics show that the most danger to a child is in a church - not in their home (with creepy relatives and friends of those relatives), not taking candy from strangers.
The good news is that we're talking about this openly now! Without a doubt, this has been going on for hundreds, if not thousands of years. With it so publicized, perhaps it will be stopped.
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Russel A. Kester
While it is clear that this incident happened, it is also clear that it lasted four years. That's long enough for her to have been able understand what was happening. She is not as innocent as she wants to have others believe. She claimed to have had psychological counseling for years because of the incident. If she went to counseling for years it was for many more issues than just those four years. At this time, she is looking for money. Plain and simple extortion. He should be prosecuted only if she is too. While we should express sympathy for a twelve year old girl, there should be none for a woman who is now somewhere close to her late forties and is looking for money. Before all the wokies start howling, consider that Islam allows fifty year old men to marry girls younger than twelve. Also consider that boys become sexually curious and act on their curiosity by playing doctor and other things AND that girls mature faster than boys. This is more proof that feminism is wrong and that boys and girls should be kept separated until marriage. That means single sex schools and worship.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Of course, you immediately blame the victims. Ones like you ALWAYS blame the victims. And when people snarl at you for that behavior, you shout that they're "woke" and that they "are blind" and that they're Feminists / feminazis" or "soy boys".
And who gives a da** what Islam does. This isn't about Islam. You're immediately pushing for Sharia-Law type of situation where the girls are brutally punished, separated into different schools, likely forced to wear clothes with hoods so "they don't tempt the boys".
How about teaching "those boys" to control themselves? This isn't a "Boys will be boys" BS thing. This is an EVIL man using his power and influence to HURT kids.
TONS of pastors are doing this. Only reason this one's getting into the papers is because he's a fairly well known pastor who's made himself filthy rich running a MAGA... I mean MEGA-Church. I feel sorry for any daughters you have, if you have any. You likely treat them like crub and tell them that if they're beaten, abused, rped, that it's all THEIR fault, they should've been "more submissive" to avoid getting such brutal mistreatment.
Let me guess, if you've a wife, you beat her into submission, too, because females are "to be obedient at all costs" right? And if they're sexually abused, or beaten to a pulp, then it's ALL their fault no matter what age, right? After all, they're female, so it's automatically their fault in your eyes.
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Russel A. Kester
I rightly brought attention to an adult woman's unethical motivations. A 15 year old girl who continued to engage in what could be referred to as heavy petting knew what she's doing. There was nothing in the article saying that he'd threatened her or her family with violence. Why he did it, we don't know. Why she went along with it for so long, we don't know. What we do know is that she showed up 35 years later demanding money and threatening to go to the police if he didn't pay up. If she was truly upset, she would have gone to the police and taken him to court. She did neither. She just demanded money. Her claim of decades long trauma rings hollow.
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Beth
The reason we have the notion of age of consent, as well as other minimum ages for such things as getting married, voting, gambling, using alcohol or tobacco is that a minor does not yet have the development to understand the ramifications of what they are doing. At 15, she probably did not understand precisely what was happening, that she could or should say "no", believed that it was (somehow) her fault, who she could go to for help who would believe her, that it was a crime on his part, and so on.
It could well have taken her this many years to get beyond all of this, and admit, "It was done to me, when I did not really know what it was, that I could refuse, that it's wrong and illegal." It might not have anything to do with money.
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Russel A. Kester
Beth, those are all great points. But as an adult she does know and demanded money with the threat to go to the police if he didn't pay up. That is not that action of an uninformed, innocent victim. That is an act of a competent adult attempting to engage in blackmail which speaks volumes to her motive.
I can't recall if we've exchanged comments before, but I think you crafted your response well.
I am suspicious of the claim that she didn't understand what was happening as she went to his room, so it's not like he cornered her in a room in the church. I am also doubtful because we have all been in the age range when this occurred and we knew what was up. We weren't stupid. And I'm older than she is now so these issues were likely discussed in church, in school, hopefully at home, and clearly among friends as stated in the article. The simple truth is that we do not know her state of mind or her level of maturity. What we do know is that she didn't go to the police, but did try to get money.
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Sunshine DayDreamz
Baloney! This child was traumatized at a young age by a trusted male role model. She was groomed, that's why it continued. Sad how you know nothing about sexual abuse and trauma and continue to victim blame.
It isn't blackmail. Why shouldn't she get restitution? That predator ruined her innocence. What price should that be? Plus, he suffered nothing and increased his wealth and social position. He deserves the rest of his life in prison at the very least.
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Russel A. Kester
Sunshine, Here's a headline where the roles are reversed, "US Woman Charged After She Posed As 14-Year-Old To Have Sex With Teenage Boys"
And this news article, "A 32-year-old Texan teacher has faced court after admitting to having sex with a 13-year-old male student in her classroom." https://au.news.yahoo.com/teacher-admits-to-having-sex-boy-13-classroom-014000352.html
This woman was 32 not 21 and the boy's teacher! Do you feel the same sense of outrage? Should these women pay restitution and spend the rest of their lives in prison?
Our legal system has just laws in place to determine the actual harm done and the appropriate punishment. This woman should have availed herself of it to get justice. She didn't. She seems from the article to be a 50ish year old, morally corrupt woman.
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Sunshine DayDreamz
No one is arguing that the predator's gender relates to punishment. You're just changing the subject to fit your narrative that predators shouldn't be punished and the victims deserved it, wanted it or crying wolf. Baloney!
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Russel A. Kester
Not true, Sunshine, I did not say predators shouldn't be punished (a universal statement meaning all predators). In this case I doubt the claims of the now 54 year old woman. And I'm not changing the subject. It's the same subject just switched the sexes of the predator and prey. But you deflected and didn't answer the question I posed. Did you have the same sense moral of outrage? Should these women pay restitution and go to prison for the rest of their lives?
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Robert Gagnon
Stockholm syndrome, victim becomes obsessed, even protective of a molester. There is absolutely no excuse for a 17 year old to molest a 12 year old. To say she asked for it is as disgusting as the act. To continue the relationship is a classic case of grooming. You can be sure she's not the only trophy in his closet. People like that hone their skills and make a game out of the hunt. Compensation is only fair for the initial crime. It took a long time for her to realize her white night was just one of the ravenous hoard.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, maybe. How likely is it to have been Stockholm syndrome? "Stockholm syndrome is rare; according to one FBI study, the condition occurs in about 8 percent of hostage victims.May 28, 2024" https://www.britannica.com/science/Stockholm-syndrome
When only 8% of of actual hostage victims experience Stockholm syndrome, which would strongman the case here of molestation, it is highly unlikely she experienced that condition. Remembering that she went to her father and told him furthers the likelihood that she did not suffer from Stockholm syndrome; otherwise, she wouldn't have done so. It's reasonable to conclude that she did not suffer from Stockholm syndrome.
In 35 years no other woman has come forward making a similar claim. There are likely no others.
What doesn't sit well is her saying 'give me money and we're square' 35 years later. That is disturbing.
People not in involved and with no actual knowledge of the events going off the rails, demanding life improvement is rather extreme. Both parties describe the events differently. We don't have all of the facts. Let the court decide. But this woman is now 54 years old not 12. His motives should be properly scrutinized and so should hers.
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Robert Gagnon
So Monika in her twenties was the victim of the power of a certain president Bill. She couldn't say no to his powerful persona. Yet a christian 17 year old that's treated special in her home, was tempted and taken advantage of by a 12 year old. As this progressed, (he couldn't evade her advances), he used her until something better or younger came along. Why should she be used like an old rag while he prospers. He owes her. By the way my neighbor when I was young (he was 11) was molested by a priest. When he told his parents they punished him for accusing a father(catholic) of such a thing. They beat him in front of me for bringing it up that they should do something. This went on for a few years, and no he didn't like it. The point is people take advantage of their station no matter how minor it may be. To put blame on the victim (at twelve thats what she was) Is not taking responsibility. I am so glad he lost it all rather than pay a pittance of his wealth. Bet it was less than trump paid a porn star.
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Dawn
Clearly you aren’t even on the same planet in having a clue what it’s like to be abused . And by someone with position and power -NO ONE will believe you. And they threaten you, your family, etc.
You truly don’t understand so please stop. Your comment is incredibly offensive and worse-it’s a serious trigger to all of us who have been sexually abused by your gender. We’re all dealing with PTS now and the rage your comment is bringing up is hard to handle.
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Russel A. Kester
Dawn, not sure to whom you're comment was directed, but assuming it was me, here goes. First, everyone is responsibility for his or her own emotions. If one feels triggered, then they need to examine that and learn how to not be triggered. It's called being a mature adult. No one is responsible for other people's emotions and reactions to life. Second, both genders have members guilty of these acts. So speaking of 'your gender' is myopic at best and possibly disingenuous. Again, if someone feels rage at comments like mine, it's time for self examination or perhaps if the experience is too overwhelming, then professional counseling should be considered. And finally, it's usually a mistake to assume that the author of a comment hasn't experienced the topic under discussion.
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Rev. BH
RAK, I'm beginning to believe your "opinions" are only meant to instigate and antagonize. How else could anyone continually express such anger and hatred in response to our mostly decent contributors. I suggest we let him rant alone, ignoring and not responding to him. We will not change his "heart".
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Russel A. Kester
BH, there was no anger or hatred in my comment, that is a mischaracterization. We are all here to engage with the articles provided and to provide comment for discussion. But by all means feel free to ignore my comments. By the way, your above comment contained nothing related to the article only a personal attack against me. You'll note, that I haven't personally attacked you or any of the other 'decent contributors.'
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Robert James Ruhnke
Kester this is by far your most disgusting post you’ve typed up yet. There’s nothing constructive or respectful I can say to you about this. It reeks of victim shaming, gaslighting. You using Islam as a red herring when there’s 50 year olds in this country pushing for religious child marriages is detestable. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re just a paid Russian internet troll.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, if only I were paid for my valuable contributions. If my comment 'reeks of victim shaming,' then quote which sentence(s) commit such an odious offense. Since you say that child marriage is detestable, a statement with which I agree, I look forward to your coming to my defense the next time I write of the evils of such reprehensible tenets found within the Islamic holy writings and practices.
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Robert James Ruhnke
You’ll never get my defense, only ire, because you are no better than the Muslim fanatics you harp so much against. Leaving you to those fanatics would be giving you what you deserve.
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Russel A. Kester
Well, at least your motivations clear.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Russel, do you purposely try to say the most disturbing thing possible? This woman isn’t lashing out just to make money. You are blaming the victim. At the age of 12 – 16 you do not have the mental capacity to realize what is happening to you. This has stayed with her all of her life. Yes, she deserves money. She deserves millions from this man, his old church, and his mega church where he made millions of dollars. I don’t know what the statute of limitations is for child molestation, but the people who hid this need to be held accountable.
This woman has been scared for life because this man groomed and took advantage of her. She holds NO responsibility here.
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Russel A. Kester
James, the twelve year old was a victim when this first happened even though from the account in the article it seems she was a willing victim. She went to his room after the family we to bed. That doesn't excuse his actions and it informs us of her own willingness. After that when she was in her mid-teens, she was aware and still willing. It's amazing that the same people who think 12-16 year olds are mature enough and smart enough to undergo irreversible life altering transgender operations are not mature enough or smart enough to know what they're doing when that they engage in sexual activities. These people are inconsistent in how they view this age group. Give the other side, the conservatives, credit for consistency as they say this age group isn't mature enough or smart enough for either. There was nothing in the article to even hint that she was scared. In fact, a fair reading indicates that she was not. She didn't report any threat of violence or force. When she told her family she had its support. She wasn't stupid. She deserves no monetary damages. If she believes he should be punished by the law, then she can try the courts as there is no statute of limitations as far as I know. Here is the definition of felony sexual abuse generated by Google AI,."The definition of felony sexual abuse can vary by state, but it often includes nonconsensual sexual activity that is aggravated or involves a victim who is incapacitated or unable to consent." So, at what age was she capable of consenting? In the US it is 18. In the UK it is 16. I asked Google AI if any country has an age of consent less than 16, here's its response, "Most countries require young people to be at least 14 before having sex. But there are exceptions. Angola and the Philippines both set the age of consent at 12, which is the lowest in the world." So, throughout the world there is vast disagreement. For all of you multiculturalists, take note as this is where that belief is leading the USA..
So, if my comments seem disturbing then consider the real world from which they are generated. Perhaps the Christian morals so often attacked here will seem more palatable when seen in this light .
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Robert James Ruhnke
You sound like Milo Yiannopoulos when he was defending pedophilia, Kester. There are already Christian right wingers here now pushing for the acceptance of Child marriage in the name of Christianity. Blaming multiculturalism for young age of consent is ludicrous because many of those nations have many Christian, Muslim, or abrahamic cultural influences. The ones that don’t are still heavily patriarchal. Such as patriarchal control over women’s bodies. The right in the US want to lower the age of consent to keep women barefoot, pregnant, and totally reliant on the mercy of garbage men. You’re also using this moment to throw trans people under the bus. Gods Kester, you really don’t have any redeeming qualities, do you? You really are an unwitting agent of darkness, and once more you’ve been staring into hell’s inferno so long you think it the light of heaven.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, child marriage is not a Christian value. Once again you are confusing Christianity and Islam.
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Robert James Ruhnke
They’re both abrahamic religions which draw from the same cultural pools and regions. Mary was estimated to be 12 or so when she had Jesus. In the Old Testament, virgin girls were spoils of war, married to their captors - a form of legalized pedophilia. The Bible has no minimum age for marriage. It was typical for old, wealthy men to marry pubescent girls - they could pay the dowry. This was glossed over in my Christian upbringing. You extol “Biblical values” when in fact the Bible supports child marriage and human trafficking. Not to mention holy war (jihad), slavery, and the murder of non followers. Then why are so many right wing Christians defending the practice when it’s brought to the chopping block.
Truly Educate yourself on these topics. Don’t just regurgitate the echo chamber you were brainwashed in.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, ancient Middle Eastern societies had cultural practices we objective to today. There's no news there. But you err when you claim that Christians are defending those same practices today. Islam, now there you have a case to make, but not Christianity.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Yes Christianity, every time it comes up to make child marriage illegal, a conservative Christian jumps to its defense. Why isn’t there a national ban on child marriage? Islam is 5000 miles away, and many of the of number of Muslims in the US side with right wing Christians and their values. I have a case with both religions. They both have right adherents who want young brides accessible to older men. We have ancient practices today which go back that far, and many Christian right wingers with project 2025 want to bring back many of the practices that have been done away with. Like making being gay a punishable crime again. Seriously deflecting and just be wrong.
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James Riggle-Johnson
First of all, Russel, I nor anyone in this chat has said it’s okay to perform transition surgeries on a minor. Second, you don’t seem to know the phycological manipulation that goes into child molestation that let’s the perpetrator to do it for years. Have you ever been the victim of such manipulation?
Third, I don’t know the laws of Texas in the 80s regarding child molestation. I know from other states dealing with the Catholic church that there were statues of limitations for when charges could be filed. Just because this woman was abused for 4 years does not mean she enjoyed it. It is evil to suggest such a thing. You have no idea what was going on in her mind regarding the abuse. Many predators convince the child it’s okay. You demean every victim of child abuse when you claim one of them enjoyed it.
Do you think a rape victim enjoyed it just because the didn’t report it for years? That’s just wrong. It’s discusting.
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Russel A. Kester
James, there's a correction to be made to your comment. I never said that she enjoyed anything. You just pulled that out of thin air. What I did write was that she willingly went to his room at night after the family had gone to bed as stated in the article. But none of that was the main point, which was the fact that she waited 35 years together with her previous actions (such as not going to the police at 16 when she told her father) attests to her true motivations today in demanding money as a 50-ish year old woman.
As for my comment that the same group of people who find children incapable of making important, even life altering, decisions in one case but deny such agency in another is true. We know it's true because we read about it and these operations have been performed. We also know that there are ministers on this blog who have written in support of 'gender-affirming care' and staunchly so. These surgeries are included in 'gender-affirming care.' So, yes, we have ministers here who have supported it. Are these the same persons? Since no one on the conservatives side supports it, that leaves the progressive crowd. And who clamored the loudest on this blog with vehement hatred in reaction to this article? Yup, the progressive crowd. How do I know they're the same people? It's the same names. So, I think my statement is sound. If the juxtaposition of these two ideas is uncomfortable, it's probably because together they show the compartmentalized thinking of progressives which leads to contradictory beliefs. This article is an opportunity to discern such discrepancies in one's thinking.
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Robert James Ruhnke
They don’t get surgeries till they’re 18 years. 16 with years of counseling and consent of parents. Gender affirming care is about self determination, and how a person perceived themselves. The woman in that situation was actually being groomed. An outside influence trying exert a power dynamic on someone who is their junior. An account of actual grooming, by one of your comrades no less, is right in your face and you’re still trying to throw trans people under the bus. That’s sad. The parents probably knew and convinced themselves it was beneficial in some sick way. These churches are like that more than they aren’t. I say this because he’s not the first powerful Christian figure to use their power to influence and abuse people. She’s not in it for the money, that’s your reckless and ridiculous projection and poor attempt at assassinating her character.
The reason why so many victims of SA and R*pe don’t come forward is because of the treatment they receive when being questioned by police. In many ways the mistreatment of the victim (the way you’re talking now) makes them relive that trauma. Theres also another part of the power dynamic to consider between the pastor and his victim, had she of gone forward there’s a chance she and her family would have been targeted and mistreated by the congregation at the behest of the pastor. These situations aren’t cut and dry. She is trying to hold him accountable for his actions. Nothing more. Once more Kester you demonstrate misogyny, transphobia, internalized homophobia, xenophobia, gaslighting, and your ability of weak deflection.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, the first paragraph of your comment has been refute by past conversations wherein I quoted chapter and verse that you are simply wrong. Conversations you always conveniently forget ever took place. I do hope your memory improves with time.
There was a time when your concerns about victims being blamed had merit. That is not the case today.
When this was revealed to her father by her, the father spoke with the young man (as he was only as young man at the time) who confessed to him. If the girl had gone to the police at that time there would have been both her statement and her father's. And it seems likely the boy would have confessed to the police too. Too many ministers here seem to have a mental image of a 12 year old girl and a powerful, 60-ish year old church pastor. Not the case.
She had already held him accountable for his actions when he confessed to her father, confessed to his church (after which he ceased being a pastor for two years), and apologized to her. If she felt that was not enough, she could have gone to the police which she did not do. So, no, this was not about holding him accountable.
Again you engaged in a personal attack at the end of your comment which you do in every comment to me. Doing so does not further the conversation, and it does not provide any other useful information about the topic of the article.
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Robert James Ruhnke
No Kester, I don’t forget because you’re wrong in your assessment of trans people on every topic you’ve brought up misinformation with. Those aren’t attacks Kester, nor are they personal, but descriptors of your atrocious fallacy ridden arguments. A personal attack would be suggesting that you’re a child predator with the way you attack this predator’s victim with insinuations and feeble attempts at assassinating her character. Which I haven’t, though I wonder sometimes why you’re so obsessed with trans people that you bring them up on topics which have nothing to do with them.
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ServantOfJudgement
What I find curious, a piece of the puzzle that's missing is the victims father and mother.
Why didn't they press charges all those years ago? If the father allegedly contemplated killing the man I'd think pressing charges would be the next best thing. But nothing.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I couldn’t agree more.
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Colleen McAllister
Russel A. Kester: You, sir, are the reason this continues to happen. Islam's laws do not apply here. This pastor needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent. There is no excuse, nor any reason for him to not be punished.
This is one reason why I am against mega-churches. No accountability. In a smaller church the pastor is overseen by a group of elders or Deacons and held to a higher standard. And this pastor should have been.
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Russel A. Kester
Colleen, as always your comments are stimulating and most welcomed. Islam does not apply here YET (sorry for the caps, but I don't think we have italics). It's my hope that by seeing these issues in the boarder perspective of how religions other than Christianity and cultures other than our own treat of these topics we will broaden our communal understanding of the topics, ourselves, and others. We share an ever shrinking world. Witness the UK.
I too am opposed to mega-churches, but not for different reasons. As to the topic of sexual abuse, they are actually better than smaller churches. They are incentivized by their operations to put in the financial resources to run background checks on anyone who comes into contact with vulnerable people (children, the elderly, and handicapped persons). They are also able to afford the physical barriers needed to reduce the opportunities for predators and they have a professional staff to become educated themselves on this topic and secure the teaching materials for its volunteers. Whew! How do I know? Because I was an insurance underwriting for over 35 years and specialized in provided sexual abuse insurance to churches and other nonprofits.
But I still prefer smaller churches where I can really get to know the other members as real people.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Seems at least one 'member' here is doing their very best as an apologist for child molesters. Here we have someone who claims to know why the young girl allowed the molestation to go on for as long as it did. And his conclusion...it was mutual. So again a kkkristofascist is out there victim blaming/shaming and only/barely giving an offhand 'bad preacher the molester...don't let it happen again'.
Clearly this member's idea of religion in school as a means to avoid these kind of 'incidents' is about as reliable as his own conclusions about religion and pedophilia. In fact it reads as a very subtle, sotto voce pass for the minister.
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, someone has written multiple times that no one knows why the girl who soon became a young teen allowed the activities to continue. In fact, that was the very question someone has asked.
Yes, proper religious instruction does ensure that both boys and girls understand that the church teaches these actions are sins. So yes, both boys and girls know about bad men or women and about stranger danger.
Someone else seems to read into articles and comments things that do not exist. Otherwise that someone else would provide quotes not innuendos.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Lots of psychologists and people who’ve studied psychology can tell you exactly why she didn’t go forward. It’s about the power dynamics between predator and victim. It’s about our society and how we treat female victims. It’s many things you’re undermining or choosing to ignore. Amazing how you have so much in common with predator, Kester.
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James Riggle-Johnson
PS... this man's website is still up. He's still making money off his podcasts and books.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
I find this so very amusing! Here we have another old white "christian pastor" molesting a little girl and you know what? He is not transgender nor is he a Drag artist! Nope. He is the absolute profile of a child molestor. I wish there really was a god and a hell he could burn in for eternity but alas...
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Alexander Arends
I don't find anthing amusing about this at all,
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Christianity continuously proves itself to be an evil death-cult, yet we allow it to exist. Why?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Freedom to worship as people wish to worship. It's as ancient as most other religions are. Religion is not a BAD thing, but it's the individuals using it to brutally control and harm others that causes the bad within it.
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Alexander Arends
You are exactly right. The idea that non-religious people are less likely to commit incestuous relationships is most likely untrue.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
What does incest have to do with this situation?
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Wrong! Religion has been the bane of humanity for millennia! Exactly what has it done for humanity as a whole? Wars, power, hatred, persecution, murder, genocide, hypocrisy, theft, indoctrination, to name just a few, all in made up non existent entities to peddle to the gullible ignorant masses!
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Dawn
It’s not just Christianity. The way the US treats religion is why these issues exist. It offers lots of money and power-and protection to the criminal as they hide behind the Constitution.
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Stacey Owens
What people don't understand, Christianity is now a religion of offerings and profit. Christians are giving Jesus Christ a bad name. It's a MAGA religon of works of serve. In other words, its another gosple of Christ. This other gosple believes in the works of offering and God will bless you instead of the real gosple of Jesus Christ being the Lord of the believers life. Which means, the believer is a living sacrifice, holy and exceptible unto God. The exceptibleness is Christ in you, he is the hope of glory.
As it is written, Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ypu are.
The scripture states, you as a believer are the church and the spirit is God and we are the servents in Christ.
Jesus said, “Do you see all these (MAGA Church) buildings ? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!” Then he said," let no man deceive you". If its not for Jesus it aginst him. Jesus didn't preach denomination, He preached salvation declaring the word was within him and that word was God.
Instead, the denomination became the Christs. The congregation supported the pastors of these denominations. The message, was sin and fear of being condemned. The love part, was the offering and becoming saved.
Not one pastor could surrender to Jesus Christ totally, they became thieve and robbers. They didn't show the glory of God to declare Jesus Christ within themselves and him crusified. Not one could become a living sacrifice,
Now that would prove God sent the Son by the word of their mouth and the brightnes of the holy spirit.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Nonsense!
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Stacey Owens
Religion: your personal knowledge of good and evil.
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Lady Mutt Cat
Pesky little thing called the First Amendment.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Something MAGAs use both as a kudgel to try to scream about their "freedoms", and to try to use as an excuse to ram THEIR religion down people's throats, but also are trying desperately to try to rip out from under any who refuse to do things THEIR way.
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Rev. BH
Mega-Churches elevate their pastors with money, fame and power, a combination of forces opening the door to many forms of abuse. Hillsong was an even worse example. Care to add a few?
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John Kingsley Price II
Bishop Eddie Long, Reverend Henry Lyons, Juanita Bynum, Benny Hinn, Paula White, Jimmy Swaggart, Pastor Douglass Goodman, Arch Bishop Earl Paulk, Creflo Dollar, Pastor Joe Barron.
Just to name a few.
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ServantOfJudgement
Yea, first time I saw the Hillsong preacher he was hanging with Justin Bieber. The guy put of mega phoney vibes to me. Like super duper phoney car salesman vibes. Some years later we see he's a freaky creep.
Industrial churches gots money to make. Some to the point of cutting the utter of to get the milk. Even so the partitioners are beguiled and will defend to the end.
Got a local industrial church where the preaching demon got caught with his pants down in Walmart doing the asexual thing a couple times, DWI a couple times and his followers will not, WILL NOT stop defending him.
Christians beware!
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Pink Clover
Hillsong was ... Hillsong still is.
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Joe Stutler
Ant they throw conniptions about rainbows and performers reading to children....... 🖤🤎❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🩶🤍
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ServantOfJudgement
I wonder why drag queens don't do much performing in elderly rest homes unless there's a large lgbtqia++ presence like out west.
Our Lord told us why this is. He says train them up when their young. They got a few drag queen youth councilors in hot water for child molestation here and there across the country.
I wonder what color of tears the child cried when the extremely inclusive and harmless drag queen abused them. I'm guessing blue.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You know the color…the same was when a religiously delusional person abuses them.
But just teaching religious nonsense to a child is abuse. But it’s accepted because religious belief is a socially accepted form of insanity. Thing is that you have to teach the ‘locally accepted’ form of insanity. I’m with Forrest… stupid is as stupid does.
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ServantOfJudgement
Coming from a guy that thinks he was once a funky sea monkey, I'll weigh your opinions of our origins accordingly Dr z.
I wonder if the cops would come to my house if my kid was forced to believe and behave like a monkey. I know they would come, that's literally child abuse.
Now, back on topic. One day I'll get through the frothy mouthed antichrists....
Read this slow and twice: Where there are children, there are predators in the shadows. One merely needs to search his heart to know I'm right. You'd be wise to heed my warning if you've got children.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
No one believes they were a "funky sea monkey". And what does Evolution have to do with yet ANOTHER priest, one of thousands, who've been caught abusing kids.
Oh, btw, there is TONS of evidence for Evolution. Not so much any other claim about how life came to be.
Looks like someone is trying to throw a red-herring into the convo to try to steer it away from the fact a STRAIGHT priest, one, again, of thousands, have been caught hurting kids.
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Donald G Magel
Wow! Such ignorance.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I’ve been searching for any story or just one story of a Drag Queen abusing a child and haven’t found one. The only stories are adults saying Drag Queen Story Hour is abusive. That’s an opinion. It’s not a fact. Stop spreading the true fake news and let’s get back to this pastor who molested a 12 year old girl for 4 years. Then used it as a redemption story of straying on his marriage, but he left out she was 12.
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ServantOfJudgement
Come on James, I said a few across the country and there are a few across the country. I found four right away. You think putting a dress on with neon lipstick and sparkly eyeshadow makes men immune to crimes of lust?
I've made my opinion of preachers that molest crystal clear. Escort them off the planet and penalize his protectors publicly and as harshly as the stomach will allow.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
He's right, not a single drag queen has been known to harm kids. Esp. not ones doing volunteer events like Drag Story hour. PRIESTS, on the other hand.....
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James Riggle-Johnson
Where?
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Angella Barnaby
This is a travesty first and foremost... the fact this man is still standing free speaking to anyone through the mouth that admitted these atrocities is beside me. The moment this man admitted 1 act of inappropriate behavior with an under age minor charges should have been filed and I don't care who it is or how long ago it was... end of story!
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Another instance of a conservative "man of god" grooming yet another child to molest. This is what many straight men do, using their positions of authority and trust, where they take their time grooming a child, getting them comfortable being around them before they finally attempt to sexually molest the child.
While the conservative and kkkristofascists attempt to accuse gay men of 'grooming' boy to molest, it's almost always the married, straight, authoritative male that turns out to be the pedophile. Caster aspersions on the gay community is the way they are able to deflect attention from themselves.
I would not be at all surprised to see a few more young girls come out about run-ins with the reverend pedophile. I don't believe a pedophile tries to assault a child only once. And the bit about confessing...who is he blaming, the devil made him do it?
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Robert James Ruhnke
Every conservative accusation, projection, or pointing of fingers is a confession.
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ServantOfJudgement
It's fascinating that the gay community says a priest that molests a boy isn't gay while a priest that molests a girl is straight. I'm not able to crunch the numbers to come to your conclusion without deluding myself.
Anywhere you find children you'll find pedophiles. It's not exclusive to any group or organization. You'll never exhaust cases of teachers, priests, daycare workers, coaches, doctors, dentists, parents, policemen, fire fighters babysitters, cub masters, pilots, servicemen, truck drivers and plain ole creeps of molesting children. I just read an article about some gay big wig of some lgbtqia++ group got stung for trying to pedo a boy. I guess you'd call him a MAP. Soon you'll have he lgbt2qia++map logo to whip up, pick some funky colors for their flag.
It's as you said, any pedo in a position of power will exercise that position against children. That part you're on the money with. Ignoring your own church's pedophiles is the same as the Catholic church ignoring theirs. Our Lord Jesus The Christ says we are prone to judging in hypocrisy, faith in Jesus not required.
Increase the punishment of pedophiles to a publicized lethal level and you'll make a dent on the problem. Legally torch those who protect them and you'll get good results.
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James Riggle-Johnson
It’s not about gender when a pedophile molests a child, it is about power and control. The sex doesn’t always matter with many of them. Either way, you’re right. They make sure they’re in a position that brings them close to children. We need to be more aware of the people around children. Be mindful.
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John R Maynard
Absolutely!!
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
However, just because a person is LGBTQ+ does NOT automatically mean they're a pedophile like Alt-Right and Religious zealots constantly scream.
And, btw, those "funky colors" have nothing to do with this priest. Those colors are a representation of all the diverse individuals who are LGBTQ+ and so one guy who WAS such got caught doing such things. How many STRAIGHT individuals, esp. male priests, have gone after young girls as well as young boys?
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ServantOfJudgement
Bridget, I fully agree with you, being gay is not connected with pedophilia. I don't have an issue with someone's sexual preference nor do I think poorly of a person because of it assuming it's all on the up and up.
I use drastic comparisons to bring this to light when only christian preachers are attacked while ignoring the many other sources of pedophiles. Im trying to turn everyone's attention to the source of the problem which is much greater than any church. I recognize that churches protect predators as to schools and many other organizations. Even family will. I've made it clear what I feel we should do with these predators and those who protect them.
Consider this, when weeding a garden we don't just pull one type of weed and ignore the rest. We pull them all or we'll lose the whole thing to the weeds.
The punishment must be terrible and absolute no matter if it's a cashier, priest or president.
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Russel A. Kester
SOJ, I agree with your efforts to have everyone see the problem to its full extent. I also think that some people do not wish to do so. They wish to point out the wrongs of a specific group as it furthers their narratives about that group and dismiss wrongs done by those within groups with which they identify because that would tend to discredit their narratives. But keep up the good fight.
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Daniel Gray
It makes no difference what religion you are. We have just as many Muslums who go after young boys and girls as we do members of the Jewish faith and the Christian faith, and dont even get me started on the harems that Atheists and pagan religions have done to children, Far as I am concerned, if you go after a child you should be dealt with swiftly and fataly.
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Robert James Ruhnke
SOJ, yourself are amongst others who are the most regressive of voices of the blog. Every accusation you push is just a confession of what the conservative and the maga cult are going push and strive for against the groups you’re trying to undermine and throw and under the bus.
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they should still arrest that pedophile, even if its a few decades ago, the second its brought to light he shouldve been escorted to a police car and he should register as sex offender because thats what he is
they didnt arrest him because we have a pedophile for a "president" name biden
you mean we 'had' one, and he's trying one more time, right, the cheeto clown felon, lock him up
LIES, LIES, LIES! You should be ashamed to be spreading such FALSEHOOD! Convicted FELON Donald J. Trump is the one who used to hang out at Jeffrey Epstein's Pedophile Island, along with his old pal, Bill Clinton.