A Florida couple claim they were denied tuxedo rentals for their upcoming wedding simply because they are gay.
Joni Edmonson and her fiancée, Ciarra Weaver, were shocked to receive a phone call from the owner of a local clothing shop, My Sister’s Closet, alerting them that their tuxedo order was canceled. The sudden cancellation left them in the lurch – with only months to go until their wedding, they were feeling panicking and devastated.
Edmonson recalled the emotional moment to a local news outlet.
“[Weaver] got a call, so she went outside and came back and she was in tears. I was like, ‘What is going on?’ And she was like, ‘Miss Cynthia told me because she's a pastor that she cannot fulfill our tux order.’ It was awful. I was like, ‘Well, she's known that we're gay since forever, so why is it just now that you can't do our order?’”
Last Minute Cancellation
Edmonson’s Facebook post about the incident quickly gained traction in the media.
The couple was surprised by the sudden cancellation, both because they’d officially had the tuxedo order in since mid-April, and because Weaver called Harris personally in November of last year and told her she’d need a tuxedo the next year for another wedding – her own.
The couple says that it was no secret that they’re gay. Weaver had patronized My Sister’s Closet for 15 years for everything from proms to military balls, and even thought of Harris as a friend.
But perhaps what hurt most was the sudden refusal leaving them in a very time-sensitive bind.
"The Supreme Court says that they have the right to deny service, but why didn't you deny service back in November? Why did you wait so long?” Edmondson said (a reference to the Supreme Court’s judgment in favor of Christian baker Jack Phillips, who refused to bake a cake for a gay couple’s wedding).
Discrimination or Freedom of Religion?
While Edmonson and Weaver say they have no intention to sue, there have been a number of high-profile lawsuits exploring the intersection of the sincere religious beliefs of wedding vendors and the rights of LGBT couples to shop without experiencing discrimination.
Should Christian wedding vendors be able to deny service to gay couples because of their faith? Or do anti-discrimination laws supersede those beliefs?
For the courts, it’s a tricky situation. In the aforementioned Masterpiece Cakeshop case, the Supreme Court ruled in baker Jack Phillips’ favor, but on grounds so narrow it couldn’t possibly apply to any other case.
There’s also the case of Arlene’s Flowers in Washington State, who denied making floral arrangements for a gay wedding, with the owner citing her Christian faith.
That case went to the Washington State Supreme Court, which unanimously ruled against the flower shop; One justice said that "this case is no more about the access to flowers than civil rights cases were about access to sandwiches."
What do you think? Should wedding vendors be allowed to deny service to gay couples, even though same-sex marriage is legal nationwide? Where’s the line between discrimination and religious freedom?
122 comments
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Patti
Everyone has a right to their own opinion good or bad. If they felt that way they should not have taken the order to begin with, canceling at the last minute seems like they were just being rude.
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DeRoise J. Washington
A non-governmental agency has the right to refuse sales to any individual that violates their mission statement and/or protected religious beliefs. That being said, those who have opposing opinions should visibly post that sentiment where all customers can be advised upfront. If there are no posted statements for the public, then the business should have made some sort of accommodations, i.e. referral and at least the deposit with a 10% inconvenience.
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John Anderson
Unless you are going into their bedroom, it's NONE of your concern what two consenting adults do in their bedroom. Therefore, if the store refuses to serve someone on that basis, then the customer is perfectly within their rights to a) shop elsewhere, and b) let that fact be known publicly. They are not libeling nor slandering the store, by presenting the truth, and the foreknowledge could help others. I agree with one of the ladies in that they should have been told in November when she booked the tux, not in June.
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Dawn Lorraine Pisturino
LGBTQ do not have any more rights than anyone else. A business owner who has strong religious beliefs cannot be forced to go against his/her beliefs. And LGBTQ always pick on Christian business owners! Try a Muslim shop next time and see what happens.
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John Condron
In this case, Dawn, the customers "picked on" a shop where they had done business, without problem, in the past.
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John Robert Helms
While the company is within their rights, if I were the couple I would find a vendor that is more inclusive of their beliefs. Do business with someone who cares about them and their business.
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Nicholas J Page
As a minister myself this is preducism .The world has gone mad I say why shouldn't gays be married This is the 21st century Accept the fact Gay people are all around us.Its not swept under the carpet anymore for God's sake grow up you sad people
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And also Sir Nicholas, why do two people of the same gender have to be gay to get married? Are bi-sexuals included in that? I've never heard of bi-sexual marriage. And what about two straight men getting married. Is it legal? Why not two straight couples, who are nextdoor neighbors? Doesn't that sound like fun?!
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John Condron
Yes, Carl. Two bisexuals can marry, as can two "straight" men or two "straight" women.
As to next door neighbor couples, there are many relationships involving more than two people, but the Supreme Court has not seen fit to address polyamorous marriage.
And yes... it all does sound like fun!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Nicholas J Page, I'm down on my good knee begging, "Will you marry me"?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Nicholas, if you'll marry me, and don't object, my Lord, we can have our honeymoon at Windsor Castle. That is, unless you'd prefer Castle Neuschwanstein, in Bavaria.
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Herbert Moore
I think it is time to get past assigning sex on the basis of superficial physical appearance (all that was biologically available say 2000 years ago) when it is obviously far more complicated. I happen to prefer women, and identify with being a male - but I do not think that is the case solely because I have a penis. Additionally how others view things provided it does not harm others (or me in particular) is none of my business.
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John Norris Campbell
We should also stop assigning race on the basis of superficial physical appearances as well eh? Then what would the MSM have to divide this country? Yep class. Class warfare is actually older then many realize, and is populated with every race, creed and whatever else is popular to throw in there. Humans are always gonna have the haters among them.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Indeed, people trying to "sex a human the way we might a puppy is about as archaic and corrupt a concept as ever was.
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Randy C Hamilton
They took the order. Sue the jerks.
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John Wesley Rogers
I believe the couple should simply shop elsewhere. No one person's beliefs should circumvent another's beliefs. When two opposing forces meet either come to an agreement or go your separate ways. No need to make it personal whether it is because of religious or political beliefs. If the tailor prefers to not be associated with the wedding because of religious beliefs then so be it. If for reasons of personal feelings the same. There are no winners or losers. If you look at it as winning or losing you are missing the point.
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Gordon Billingsley
The U.S. system provides businesses with laws to protect contracts, roads and infrastructure to bring them customers, fire protection, public safety protection, privileged tax treatment and many other supports. It asks only one thing in return: That businesses do not discriminate against others. Anyone who cannot abide that one rule has a very simple remedy – don't run a business that serves the public. The issue of who gets to sit at the restaurant counter was resolved long ago.
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Dan Anderson
If they offer the same service to heterosexual people, they MUST offer it to anybody else as well.
Silly pseudo-Christians.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Silly homophobic pseudo christians, don't you mean, Dan?
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Dawn Lorraine Pisturino
Nonsense! People with strong religious beliefs cannot be forced to go against their own beliefs, morals, and principles. To do so would be discriminating against themselves. And stop picking on Christians! Try a Muslim shop next time and see what happens. And their are plenty of LGBTQ business owners.
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Donald G Magel
The tux business should not have taken the order. They knew knew the orderer was gay.
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John Condron
An argument can be made that when the shop accepted the order, they entered into a contract. If they had a problem with fulfilling their agreement, they should have said so at that time, not months later.
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John Norris Campbell
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Ilmenheru Terikson
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Minister Mike
How does supplying a service or selling a product to a gay person/couple prevent a business owner from worshipping their deity? Seriously - will god disappear in a poof of smoke? Will the business owner no longer be able to close their eyes, fold their hands, drop to their knees or walk into a church of their faith? Or is this just another excuse to hurt others?
"Going against my faith" is a meaningless phrase. Businesses should be required to post a list, prominently at the entrance to their establishment, of all people to whom they will refuse service.
To the question, though, "Should Christian wedding vendors be able to deny service to gay couples because of their faith?" Yes as long as they deny said services to all sinners and non-believers."
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
Interesting idea. No service to any sinner, no service to any non-believer. Not a prosperous business model.
If I were to be married, or to conduct a wedding, I would only wish people involved that bless the union. Those who cannot bless the union should notify about their incapacity. That is a lack of ability, not a religious matter.
This particular case is different, as an agreement was made. Being a pastor is not a good reason to break an agreement.
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Dawn Lorraine Pisturino
I will not perform a gay wedding because it goes against my principles. Money has nothing to do with it. I could care less what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom. But don't drag me into your world.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I agree, Mike. Christian beliefs don't allege that by far most of their so-called sins are worse than any other. So, it isn't right for them to single out one of their supposed sins, over the others. And most christians I've spoken with, and heard of, don't think homosexuality is a sin. There's even a gay Christian sect called MCCR, for chrissakes!
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Howard LeRoy Stone Jr
Well then they haven't read their Bible.
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John Condron
Which Bible, Howard?
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A James Baird
Nonsense Howard.
Anyone who purports to be a Christian, must, by definition, follow the teachings of Jesus, The Christ.
He stated that he'd removed his Father's rules, and replaced them with but one...
"Love thy neighbour as thyself, and with this thou art assured the Kingdom of Heaven."
Clear and straightforward -- only to be misunderstood by a professor of linguistics.
Love. Respect. Acceptance.
James
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Angel
Since we are a capitolist country, buissness have alot fo power and rights to deny service to anyone for any reason. With that said, I also think it's really bad buissness practice. Sure, you may prove to your church your "Christian" and don't support this, but your church isn't going to give you enough buissness to substain you. IF you'd ut your differances aside, your buissness could really do well. So, if it goes broke, that's on you and your biased towards your customers.
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Rabbi Francine MacHotka
Retail stores can’t deny service based on religious beliefs. The pastor should be sued.
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Alexander Clarke
I do not support any business that is overtly religious.
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pjm
I'd say that if these people feel unable to provide the same service to all customers because of their religious beliefs, then they are in the wrong business.
Just imagine the righteous screaming if someone denied THEM service because of their religion.-
pjm
p.s. In the Christian Bible, Jesus loved everyone, even "the least of these." The only people he hated were the religious hypocrites.
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Lionheart
He has his moral limits then?
That’s the difference between him and me, I accept everyone. Does he have anger management issues, and suffer with jealousy like his dad? I think I could teach them both a thing or two to help them with relationships.
🦁❤️
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Rob Johnson
The tailors have the right to do business or not if it conflicts with their beliefs.
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David Franklin Lancaster
I would agree that as a owner you have a right to serve whom ever you choose, BUT I believe that we all are created in his image. I do not believe he makes any mistakes. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
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Emma Lynne McFadden
I believe the answer is simple: simply ask yourself what would Jesus do... Remembed John8: verse 7.
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Selecia Young-Jones
IT IS ABSURD to think the Shop Owner has a leg to stand on. Equal TReatment Under The Law.
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Dan Anderson
What would these people be thinking when they claim "It is against Christianity?" No, it is not! It may APPEAR to be that if one is uneducated in the Abrahamic faiths' teachings, but with just a basic education in the field, one would know NOTHING is mentioned about homosexuality, with exception of the newer versions of the Bible. KJV1611 mentions in 1Cor 6:9-10 NOTHING about the homosexual. It is a more recent addition.
Other passages, again, have NOTHING to do with homosexuality. It was a series of cultural issues that had to do with OTHER situations.
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John Komorowski
I have to agree with this, Robert. I do have a bone to pick with the shop owner. She could have said something to them from the get-go. It 'almost' sounds like it was a planned slight, waiting so long to tell them. Some friend these two thought they had, eh?
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Greg Formoe
Following your religion is not a bad thing, expecting others to follow your religion is. As far as this case, just go find a gay tailor, there must be thousands. You can't expect people to ignore their religion to suit you ( unintentional pun ) any more than they can expect you to follow their rules.
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James Michael Barker
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Dave J
From your syntax, I am not sure if you oppose or support gay marriage. You "dont think men and women should not be aloud to marry" A double negative. You go on to say if should be forbidden, so I think you are against it. I do not wish to make a straw dog of your lack of punctuation and grammar, but it makes it hard to take you seriously. For the record, this is not about allowing them to marry. That has been adjudicated all the way to the United States Supreme Court. What this is about is providing service. At one time, it was legal to decline to serve African Americans. And many christians said it was in the bible. "The mark of Cain." And that has gone by the wayside. This too will eventually go away as well. As far as this particular case, I am sure that the clothing store will find some new customers, and lose others. From an anecdotal perspective only, as there are no statistics I can find, this will actually cause the business for that establishment to decrease substantially. It's happened many times, to the point of the business going under. Why is that? Well surprise! There are more people who believe that discrimination against LGBTQ+ is a bad thing than there are bigots. On the other hand, you might just be a troll, and that's fine too. Trolling is protected speech under the First Amendment so the government can't shut you down. But the ULCM could if they wanted to. They own this site.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@James Michael Barker Can you give me God's definition of a women and a man? What do you call a someone who God made who has a penis, uterus and breasts? Is that a man or a woman or both? God makes 1 out of every 200 people with some sex difference.
Please take a moment to take a look at this video made by one of God's children who God made as a man and a women. https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_quinn_the_way_we_think_about_biological_sex_is_wrong?language=en
I would respectfully like to know your thoughts.
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Jack Gerber
I wanted to thank you very much for posting that link. The TED Talk is absolutely fascinating in the light of the discrimination some people with extreme religious views show to people who do not behave according to their rules.There is an underlying assumption that men and women are inherently different and therefore it is divinely required for them to behave according to certain rules.
In fact, of course, the sexes are actually a spectrum where most are easy to classify but a large minority is not. I knew that was clear from who they were attracted to but didn't realize that the physical differences too were on such a spectrum. I wonder how the religious conservatives would deal with this.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Jack Gerber You are welcome, glad you found it interesting. The issue Christians are struggling with is the words of God. In Genesis it states over and over God during the creation process, Genesis, says everything God created as "good" and the way God wanted it. Christians take this to mean everything God created was perfect. God being all knowing and all powerful could not make anything that's not perfect including men and women.
What Christians can't deal with is God's imperfection. If God created man and a women from man they have to be "perfect". Their can be no half man half-women people... But there are. An the Bible has is wrong we all begin development as women. It's the hormones which give men a penis and other male physical features.
Christians just can't accept God is imperfect and makes mistakes.
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Minister Mike
What was God's reason for creating Adam? Book and verse, please.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
By the way Mikey, what was God's reason for creating anything? Was he bored shitless, or what?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Adam was created to be a companion for Steve, who was bi-sexual. And I quote the first the first verse, third paragraph of the first book of Myrna, Mike.
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Ryan S Romanek
Amen Nicholas, we can debate this debacle till the cows come home and they have. It's not a debate when God accepts all his children for who they are, after all he made us all and in his own image. When people run out of things to complain about, which hopefully is soon, can we all just stop stepping on each other's toes. Ours is not to ask the how or why, but for God ultimately to decide everything including those that refuse to just love their neighbor as theirselves
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Douglas Robert Spindler
It's Christians who can't accept God's ALL of God's children.
I have yet to meet a Christian who can give me God's definition of a women and a man? What do you call a someone who God made who has a penis, uterus and breasts? Is that a man or a woman or both? God makes 1 out of every 200 people with some sex difference.
Please take a moment to take a look at this video made by one of God's children who God made as a man and a women. https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_quinn_the_way_we_think_about_biological_sex_is_wrong?language=en
I would respectfully like to know your thoughts.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
But Ehrman, I can't avoid loud and aggressive persons, for I'm one myself. And who better to put those others in their place?
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Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.
I am Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr. really. What does the law or the Holy Bible say regarding homosexuality?I will never marry homosexuals in my church. 1 Timothy 1:8-15 New International Version 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
The Lord’s Grace to Paul 12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.
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Diana Lynn Angell
Thank you! Thank God for you! At least one person knows what the word says and the reason for these laws aren't to be mean but to bring life. Homosexuality does not bring life. Unfortunately there are plenty of people who will take money to sire or birth a child for the wealthy and famous gay couples. Nature is what the Creator has created and nature to continue requires procreation. Perhaps there are plenty of people not wanting to have children and that isn't my point. MY point is nature wishes to continue and to do so it means procreation, whether it is a bird, a tree or whatever it must bear fruit to continue life. Everyone should really think about that. Moses said it, then Joshua, choose life and blessings or curses and death. Its all about that and the laws are the how to
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John Condron
Actually, "Archbishop," the Bible says nothing about homosexuality, per se. There are only six passages that address same-sex eroticism, and there is no evidence that these in any way address same-sex relationships of love and mutuality. To the contrary, the amount of cultural, historical and linguistic data surrounding how sexuality in the cultures of the biblical authors operated demonstrates that what was being condemned in the Bible is very different than the committed same-sex partnerships we know and see today. The stories of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19) and the Levite’s concubine (Judges 19) are about sexual violence and the Ancient Near East’s stigma toward violating male honor. The injunction that “man must not lie with man” (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13) coheres with the context of a society anxious about their health, continuing family lineages, and retaining the distinctiveness of Israel as a nation. Each time the New Testament addresses the topic in a list of vices (1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10), the argument being made is more than likely about the sexual exploitation of young men by older men, a practice called pederasty, and what we read in the Apostle Paul’s letter to the Romans is a part of a broader indictment against idolatry and excessive, self-centered lust that is driven by desire to “consume” rather than to love and to serve as outlined for Christian partnership elsewhere in the Bible.
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Kim Joseph Weith
If GOD, were among the walking right now, he/she would understand that all walks of life praise him/her in the Glory of God. BUSINESS OWNERS like that should not be in business. It seems that they live under a rock the business owners that is. There are so many men and women who are married out of convenience to the opposite sex just to save face and live a secret life....... I feel deeply sad for those who have to hide and applaud those couples who fight for what they deserve. We wish we owned a tux shop so we could personally take care of them.
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Allen Kumetz
They have the right to refuse service if they want but it should have been refused before talking the order. Stop trying to force everyone to accept you. Gary pride is way out of hand. I do not care who you sleep with but I don't want to hear about it. If someone started straight Pride they would be hung or white music award. The thing about this that is wrong is they took the contract, they should be sued for breach of contract.
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A James Baird
1) One of the Brides had dealt with that business and owner for years. The owner knew she was Gay. The owner took the order, then months later, reneged.
2) Every day, of every week, of every month of the year is Straight Pride Month. Any heterosexual can climb to the top of any edifice, then loudly and proudly call to the world that (s)he is Straight -- that they have an other-gender spouse that they love, and that they have kids that they love. There is nobody who would think for a second to target them for their sexual orientation.
3) Gay pride, like all instances of pride-in-self, can NEVER get out of hand, least of all "way out of hand." Pride in anything that is good, is good. Period!!
Love. Respect. Acceptance.
James
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Amy Louise Flanagan
No matter the relationship status or sexual orientation of a person(s) that gives no right to be discriminated against. It’s 2021 everyone should be treated and respected the same regardless of their age, gender, sexual orientation etc. it’s nice to be nice, I agree with the comments there is more then one tux shop that might be more humble however I do find others just aren’t as accepting as us more open minded and heartwarming people. I hope you both find something that works !! <3
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Amy Louise Flanagan
No matter the age, gender, sexual orientation or relationship status between two people it doesn’t give anyone the right to be rude, horrible or to discriminate. There is more then one tux place and I hope you find one that suits and is more welcoming and humble <3 do not give up!
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Paul Donaldson
Host a nude wedding, the two brides, the preacher, and the quests.
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Susana Dolores Osuna-Mora
I, myself married a gay couple. I wasn't sure how people would perceive it and I was just a little out of my comfort zone. I don't go around saying, "I'm a heterosexual." It shouldn't come into the conversation unless you are joining some kind of sex club. What I did was I prayed hard and the answer was given to me. It popped into my head, saying, "Only God can Judge His children." Very heavy words, that we SHOULD LIVE BY, but with influencing and all the social media, we tend to want to do the popular thing. If YOU live by ALL the Lord's Commandments, then I say to you, you are in a club of 1. NONE of us can live that kind of pious life, we are sinners, and GOD will judge us. Let Him do His work, and you do yours. When I see this gay couple that I married, they are so loving, and respectful of each other, I only wish, "straight," couples could be more like them.
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Michael Anton Goedeker
The company acted maliciously hoping to put a monkey wrench into the couples day of happiness. No one would accept this if it was a wedding we were officiating at so why here? This question of same sex existed long before any of the monotheistic religions existed and is part of this planet's history. None of us really know what God is or looks like, if God really did have something against anything we would find out very quickly. So why do we as humans assume we really know what God thinks or wants or accepts? I just don't get this line of thinking to be really honest.
If I could even comprehend what God is then I would have to assume God is Sexless or both at the same time. Druids, Celts and others had same sex couples long before any "modern" religion did so how can we say this is good or bad. Everyone is free to choose their life path, we are here to provide help when asked. That has nothing to do with sexual preference.
A company may choose to not serve someone, that is not a right when they do so maliciously to cause harm without informing the couple, that is a criminal offense and should be handled like one. This has nothing to do with freedom to deny, it has everything to do with treating people with respect, that is not a discussion point and shouldn't even be open to discussion really.
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Gerald Edward Blackford
I believe the State and Church should remain separated on these matters. A true scriptural believer can not perform such a marriage. One’s religion and it’s practices should be separate from any government intervention. There are many churches / businesses that will participate . Find one
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Dan Anderson
The reason why this is an open act of sexual discrimination is because they are offering their services to one group of people and NOT another. NONE of what they are doing is against humanity. The shopkeepers, however, ARE discriminating because of their own (sadly, inaccurate) perception of what their own religion teaches.
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Antonia Geraldine Carey
With all the serious issues, life-threatening, is the establishment lying to us serious issues going on today, it still amazes me that some people are like the vendor. As everyone has said above, they are within their rights to refuse service to anyone but 1) given that they knew the couple was gay and 2) the couple had been good customers of the business for years it made me wonder if we were getting the entire story. We really will never know. If the business felt that way, they should have turned down the couple immediately so they had time to get a different vendor. We do video as well and shot our first two-brides wedding in the 1990s -- what a beautiful couple and memory that is. Before BLM and Antifa, I would have suggested the brides make a statement and let others know about this unkind vendor but now that strange money is being put behind these types of groups that proclaim good and fair ideals (but act in hateful ways), it's probably better off if the ladies take the high road, get another vendor and let go of this hater. They may want to create a little cord-cutting ceremony of their own where they surround themselves with love, support and protection and cut loose anyone who is not looking out for their best interests. Come to think of it -- not a bad idea for us all ;) I think there are directories they can check for preferred vendors who honor their and like unions and will really go the distance to make their special day beautiful.
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Lisa A Dunkleberger Mikhael
Well what I would do is get a map and look at the houses around the area and then make it a point to go to each and every house and knock on the door with a little something written down saying that these people are against lesbian who want to get rentals for whatever arrangement they want and just let them know they won't do it that's going to cause them to lose their business and maybe they'll change their mind or dig into their past and find out who's getting their family and let them know it so they can come to reality and deal with it
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Emma Lynne McFadden
It is easy, ask yourself: What would Jesus do... Remember John 8:7
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Lionheart
If Jesus was real, how would we know what he would do? If he was real I hope he’s not following the traits of his jealous infanticidal dad.
🦁❤️
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Lalita Devi
Make a list of vendors that support LGB weddings - support them. Make a list of vendors that will not - boycott.
"...and the wisdom to know the difference."
"Heterosexual Only" need a Logo; and it needs to be respected by non-heterosexuals.
Everone has the right to exclusivity. Not everyone and everything has to be inclusive, but no one has to be rude about it.
Respect Boundaries. Mutually.
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Susana Dolores Osuna-Mora
I was talking to a friend of mine and he gave me a different spin on this topic. He used to work at a tuxedo shop while attending college. An order from a gay couple had been placed and both wanted pink tuxedos. They put their deposit down, got measured and then a week before their wedding the company that supplied the tuxedo shop could not deliver the pink tuxes. The owner was beside himself because he could not refund their deposit right away. So he pulled the "Right of religious conflict." He told the couple they would not supply them based on his faith and that he would refund their money in 90 days. He got away with it because no one made a fuss. But the couple was devastated. So my friend slipped them a phone number to another shop run by a gay couple. They got married, on time, in their pink tuxedos! It makes you think...
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Reverend Andrew
Freedom of Religion? Does not give you the right to be a Bigot or a Racies !
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Keith Warren Kunz
Not that simple. the Pastor has known the Lesbian Bride for 15 years. And My Sister's Closet implys that it's all inculsive .the so called Pastor was being cruel and heartless.
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Linda Salavarria
If this was a government entity, then it would be a discrimination case. Private businesses can choose to do business with whom ever they want, as per Supreme Court ruling. I'm sure it was traumatic for the soon to be newlyweds to get such late notice, but private businesses have that right to refuse service. As well, Consumers have the right to do business with whomever they choose, and report unethical behavior to other consumers, which may decrease traffic to the business and create a PR nightmare. That's the other side of "the sword".
The store's decision was totally unethical, spiteful in its late timing of informing the women, and biased. However it wasn't illegal. It's probably a good idea for anyone, but especially non traditional couples, to have a backup plan just in case...
I challenge a private, atheist business to refuse services to a christian because their religious beliefs conflict with that of the business owner. Let's see how it feels when the shoe is on the other foot! These folks have cried "religious freedom' when they choose to discriminate not realizing other americans can do the same to them. Religious freedom goes both ways.
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Michael K. Mac Munn
Facts people !!!! As I read a lot of these comments I'm reading a lot of thoughts and opinions. What seems to be lost in most of this is the fact that the order was taken. Once the order is taken a business does have an obligation to complete the said order, if they were not going to fulfill the order they should not have taken the order in the first place. After taking the order the business should complete their commitment with everything else being dismissed but the facts. Note that this was not to deny the order or service at the start. This was a business not following threw with an existing active order already in place that the business had already committed too. With this in mind, regardless of all the other thoughts and opinions, the order should have been honored and the commitment should have been kept.
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Kathleen Mazzei
Ask your very Christian vendor to show you in the Bible, where JESUS CHRIST refused to sanctify LOVE. Too many people do not have the ability to love at all. It is why we are here. God Bless.
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Robinson Doxtator
It’s funny people don’t want anything to do with God, but know the law of support. Are God’s laws supposed to be broken?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
My god and goddess just want us to be happy, without hurting anyone or anything. If I had a controlling god like yours Robinson, who made you obey laws, I'd say it's time for you to get another god. There's as endless supply to choose from. Unless you get off to being dominated and controlled. Do you also like getting spanked?
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Robinson Doxtator
Hell IS HOT BOY!
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Lionheart
How do you know your Christian hell is real? How did you determine the Egyptian hell isn’t real, or the Islamic hell isn’t real? How do we know any religious hell is real?
🦁❤️
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
Just take an exit survey. Find the location of Hell on Google Maps. Locate the exit gate, and survey the experiences of everybody leaving.
You can find out how real is Hell by finding out out the satisfaction level of the experience of those who chose to leave.
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Robinson Doxtator
Why is everyone using the “religious term” to justify what they think God should do? That’s the problem everyone wants a God they can control…but does not want a God to control them.
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MaryColleen Sadick
I believe if two people love each other they should be able to be wed! That means as a vendor if you don’t agree then that’s your right but as with any other couple you needed to give more notice of cancellation or not take the order at all! If you did cancel in such short notice you are at fault responsible for their fees and the cost of finding a alternative vendor and extra costs!! Or get out of the business! I don’t agree with any one who is prejudiced but I don’t put in my contract “ are you a prejudice person ? If so I can not work with you “… I don’t because they can lie and because while they may be prejudice that doesn’t mean they don’t love someone and deserve to be married. But when it comes to same sex marriage you don’t have to ask it’s visually obvious!!! The vendor is wrong and shouldn’t be allowed to do this last minute! If it was done to anyone else they would be held accountable!!! People think they are mighty then thou and it’s wrong!!! I’m so sorry for this couple
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Rhyannon Quilla Brightwater
The real god of America is mammon, The most loved hobby is hate toward 'the other', whoever that may be. Some very surprisingly belittling and homophobic comments on here. That is truly disturbing. To take someone's order for a service and then wait months to declare you will not provide that service is a lack of basic respect toward another human regardless of what you think about their 'lifestyle'. Creating problems for other people is uncalled for and 'unchristian' behavior. And yes, I would always pick a minority or LGBTQ business first if I was in that situation, Some of these comments are so silly like the one about LGBTQ people picking on christian business and would they do that to a muslim business, Wow! Get a grip, America. Kindness is my religion and not the decrees of some phony deity and the patriarchal system propagated by organized religion.
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Tawny
Oh no they didn’t how dare that tux company take it upon themselves to cancel this couple’s order first of all it’s against the law for anyone to discriminate against anyone especially for a business and second these so called Christians should be ashamed of themselves see this is what’s wrong with these people who claim to be religious “Christians” anyone who’s as evil as these people to judge others for who they are, disgust me and really need to re-read their bibles those of you who judge shall be judged , you can’t help who your meant to be with you can’t just walk away from your soulmate weather it’s same sex or opposite sex or black with white or yellow with brown , we all bleed the same and anyone who’s as ignorant as that Christian business may you have all the hardships without help from anyone shame on you.
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Eric Fisher
I love you but your wrong
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Chadwick Stephen Carbo
Just find a store that wants your business (Simple)
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Carlos Gomes
Hello everybody my name is Carlos R Gomes iim a Christain and I just want to say I love you all in the name of Jesus
And my Bible tells me to love all because God is love I’m not he to judge any body
I know other Christain well get upset with me but what matters at the end is that the creator of the world is looking for his creation
The most important thing in life is having a relationship with your creator
seek first the kingdom of God in all his righteousness and all should be added.
we are all special in gods eyes we did not create ourselves but we were created by perfect love
may the Lord God the father son and holy spirit bless everybody who’s reading this post and always remember you and your Famlity are special to God
always stay positive in life don’t let anyone fill you with negative but always seek in prayer and reading the word and meditating on life and the truth will always Reveal itself
God bless everyone who’s reading this and stay safe
Feel free to email me any time if any one every needs prayer or a friend to listen
Gomcr7@aol.com
Take care everybody and have a great day to your all and your wonderful friends and family.
Your truly Carlos r Gomes
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Lauralyn A Tomasiello
I think it’s sad that with so many more important issues to worry about in the world that this kind of discrimination exists. And using religion as the basis for discrimination is particularly distasteful. And it is discrimination. They were not too Christian to take money from these women for years but all of the sudden they have a religious issue? And right before the event? They should be ashamed. I’m all for tolerance but this is clearly discrimination, and it’s against the law.
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John B Artrip, II
It doesn’t take long to rent a tuxedo. Get the word out in their circle of like people and boycott that store. Using Social Media you boycott could be around the entire world in three days. As for myself I would demand to see their company directive and when your the either film it or tape it, then sue them.🦍
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Eric Fisher
Your a make believer
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Eric Fisher
Good I stand by his decision BECAUSE HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN . And he wants no part of it. The two lesbians aren't Christan if there lesbians.!!!
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Rev. Jonathan Peebles
technically I do my own type of outfit but I personally would sue for the money you lost on the wedding if that is what happened for discrimination since being a lesbian is not a religion.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
They even sell a large variety of tuxedos on Amazon. I've looked at a lot of them. You can always find someone who does alterations.
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Rev Ned
This is kind of off topic, but IMHO somewhat related. If baking a cake or renting a tuxedo constitutes participating in a wedding, then isn't someone who sells a firearm and/or ammo that is later used in a robbery/murder also participating in the crime?
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Bobby R Edge
These are a couple of Satan's minions. They have no place in God's world they serve only Satan and themselves. As Satan's minions and Satan's minions helpers you are all going to HELL !!! Christians stand up site for God's rights not for Satan's minions.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Some of our fellow ministers, like over the edge Bobby R, really should be ignored. Talk about One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, this one really took the cake, and ran with it! No Bobby, Satan loves people like you, and you'll be the only one going to Hell, if such a place really exists.
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Minister Michael Tomlinson
I usually do not do this because everyone has a belief of some sort and has a right of "Freedom of Speech". Being Christian myself and as a business owner the way that this business handle the situation is still in the wrong. Regardless what your beliefs are, you are in a business of profit. I can assure everyone reading this, somewhere in the past I am sure that the business has served let's say different life styles (for our sakes here to include EVERYONE) services that they did not know that the people were different. Just because the lifestyles that people have chosen to live should not affect the services you provide in your business. The Church or your beliefs did not make a decision on opening the doors to the business. The thought of making a living for your family and keeping a roof over your head is the main focus of most business owners. To provide a life for your children to strive. Also if the business owner wanted to put her/his beliefs first before service/sale that should have been addressed at the beginning, not several months down the road. If I was to put my christian beliefs before the profit of my business then my business would surely fail. We have ALL walks of life in our country and I assure you the way of life has changed. It is not our right but our OPINION the way we think of differences. We are all the children of god and for someone to talk about reading the Bible (are you talking about the New Testament or the Old Testament) because if you ask me they both are similar in ways but also have different messages. The people that actually tell others to read the Bible, my question is; do you? Do you understand it? If the answer is yes to these questions then can you recite the Bible without even opening it? Because if you can then you have really read it not just once or take a scripture off of a bumper sticker. So that being said the ONLY true person/spirit that can make a judgment call on our differences is Our GOD father himself and Jesus Christ or Savior. So for the hatred in some of these messages, come to your senses that one day you too will have your Judgment and I hope that day Jesus can allow you through the Pearly Gates of Heaven. I know where I will be going.
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Carson Christiansen Christiansen
Outside of the couple being unnecessarily inconvenienced, and tbh, the vendors soon to be realization that their failure as business owners is a direct result of an embarrassing inability to realize they lost money, which is why I assume they opened a business in the first place, due to a non malignant domestically contained agreement, that in no way affects them or not one person they have ever met. Outside of that, the fact that this is a newsworthy issue is indicative of the clown shoes organized religion wears in public. The history of utilizing “make believe” as the blueprint of your entire narrative, ranging from the source all the way down to a reward/punishment based eternity. How this eternal destiny is somehow determined using a finite 65+/- year lifespan is math I will never understand, but when building a solid structure in which to house my eternal soul, I would want to make the foundation out of pillars more “real” than the two strongest religious cornerstones being “faith” and “belief”. By definition alone these words exist to explain that we require outside sources in order to form our opinion (not fact) because we are not confidant in our own abilities to know what we think is true... Again, not a good business motto, but more revealingly not a good concept to be soooo sure about that you’re willing to judge, and damn to spend eternity, anyone that questions your ideals. Question, did you come to your individual thoughts on your religion through due diligence and embracing true deep internal accountability, or were you simply told that’s what you believe… by fallible people? Lastly, if the “devil” is tasked with punishing all the wicked souls, doesn’t that make the devil one of the good guys?
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Diana Lynn Angell
How is this any different than stores reserving the right to serve people? If you do not wear a mask for example they won't let you buy their products. In AMERICA we are given the right to choose and if the vendors do not wish to serve people for whatever reason then that is their right. This gay/trans agenda seems to be being pushed on everyone like we have to comply. No you do not have to comply to something that is against your religious belief. Also, how come a whole month is being designated as PRIDE month when NOTHING ELSE I know of is getting that kind of push? Communism is not American and this has to stop. I didn't care of the gay community got married bc that is the state not the faith. But now its being crammed down our throats. What is that for? And why are you putting it out there?
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James Dale Fielder Jr
They shouldn't get married it's blasphemous in the eyes of the Lord.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It sounds like your Lord is a real low life scumbag, James Dale Fielder Jr!
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Lionheart
And which Lord would that be? Lord Krishna? At best, they all appear to be mythical unless you can prove they are not.
🦁❤️
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Amber Fry
Definitely discrimination. Freedom of and from religion is about personal choice. Discrimination is about how one treats others. Using religion to discriminate is just plain ignorant.
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WILLIAM L BROWN
I don't believe that the Tuxedo Rental Service should want anybody and everybody to enjoy Jesus only on their terms. Jesus believes in love and compassion for everybody and he wasn't racist in any way. As long as this couple believed in Jesus and walks the walk with him then it's not up to us to determine how this couple should live their lives.
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Minister Deidre
This particular business owner would have a leg to stand on, had she not been knowingly taking their lesbian money for years before this and had she not taken the deposit for their wedding order, knowing that they were a lesbian couple. Her religion has not stopped her from taking their money for YEARS, to the point that they considered her to be a friend. If them being gay was such an issue for her, why did she go through the process of taking the order, doing the fittings and all of that. She's held onto their money for months and majorly inconvenienced them. Not to mention the fact that now they have to scramble to find another place that can get their clothing order together in time for their wedding.
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Emma Lynne McFadden
I am a transgender womam and live this everyday. Church is the place Infeel least welcome even though I am a child of god. I only found oeace when I accepted that god created me trans. I learned to embrace and love who I am. I corrected my body much like a person with cleft pallet. My relationship with god has never been better. My transition saved my life, it started with a suicide attempt in 2012.
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robert
I wanted to add along with my previous comment that I can careless if someone is gay or not , that is their business! BUT I date to say that this was done for a social statement!
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Emma Lynne McFadden
I don't understand what you mean.
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Franklin Willis Clay
As a Christian they should strive to attain Christian perfection. Christian perfection is a heterosexual marriage which is pleasing to God. As a Christian priest I cannot join a same sex couple together for fear of loosing my own salvation for it is a sin to join them. We as Christians tolerate that type community in hopes that they would reach Christian perfection. Ultimately God does not except it and neither should we as Christians and especially as Christian priests.
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Kevin W George
Amen, you are so correct
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Than why should we accept people of your faith even living in society? You are openly advocating to act as an enemy of society due to service to your sky daddy.
Your faith and feelings suggest to me you are as evil as could be. Is that your desire to be seen as a soul no less evil then one who rapes and murders children? As that is what your posts and words do, they paint you as evil as can be and in dire need of being removed from society just as we would a child raping murderer.
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Kevin W George
It's time to stop changing the scriptures to suit what one wants, God's word never changes and the Bible says being with the same sex is a sin and my Bible says the wages of sin is eternity in the pits of hell.
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Kevin W George
My Bible says same sex marriage is a sin
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Rev Ned
If the tux rental shop owner or baker of the cake is "participating" in the event their product is used for, then would the firearm seller (FFL or illegal) also be "participating" in any subsequent crime that's committed with the weapon and/or ammunition they've sold?
So I figure that instead of cramming ones social/ religious beliefs down upon someone and instead of trying to make some religious/ social statement simply go somewhere else and never again go back to that store and stop wearing your feelings on your sleeve! Because no matter how you view certain things does not mean others are going to share your views and vice versa !
I have to agree with Robert. And I feel like coming out of the closet is sometimes taken to the extreme, trying to force everyone to accept them. It might be better to only come out within your own social circle, and among other like minded people, rather than to go everywhere and shout from rooftops "We're here and we're queer!!! You have to accept us!!! Accepting and loving ourselves doesn't mean we have to be accepted by, and approved of, by everyone belse,bbut quite the opposite, or atleast far from it.
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I agree. There is more than one tailor shop in the area.. Suck it up butter cup.
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Good response. People who own businesses make what ever rules they want, even if you have to wear a mask and the lock down is over in your areas
I have to agree, Robert, that people should not "cram their social/religious views down" the throats of others. In this case, two people simply ordered tuxes from a tuxedo shop. They did not "try to make some religious/social statement;" they simply went to a shop they had patronized for years and placed an order. The shop owner accepted said order, and did not get around to raising her objection until much later.
It is the shop owner/pastor who apparently felt the need to "cram their social/religious views down the throats of others." How very "Christian" of her!
Robert you are so right....and it’s common sense.Thank you for your views....fantastic