Here’s a line you might not expect to read everyday: conservative Christian Republicans are all-in on their support for hookers.
But not just any hookers: the group in question is apparently divinely inspired. A recent report revealed that the Trump administration redirected over $500,000 in funds – once earmarked for an apolitical Catholic charity – to a different charity called "Hookers for Jesus."
The evangelical Christian group is run by a born-again human trafficking survivor. One of its major lobbying efforts is against decriminalizing prostitution – a proposal that's gaining steam in some progressive circles.
But Hookers for Jesus also hosts a safehouse for women who’ve escaped the sex trafficking world, and the group requires their guests to abide by strict biblical rules and participate in religious activities. In other words, U.S. taxpayer money is being used to force Christianity on those looking to escape human trafficking. Unsurprisingly, some critics are not happy about it.
Hookers for Jesus – And Jesus Only
Internal program manuals obtained by Reuters revealed that it was mandatory for shelter guests to attend or volunteer at local church services, and that the staff training manual decried everything from homosexuality (“immoral”) to recreational drug use (“witchcraft”).
Even “secular magazines with articles, pictures, etc. that portray worldly views/advice on living, sex, clothing, makeup tips,” were banned. Violators were assigned manual labor and chores around the shelter.
“The fact the federal government is funding this is problematic,” explained attorney Dallas Hammer. “The decision-makers here could be walking the federal government right into a clear violation of the First Amendment.”
Yet the Department of Justice clearly doesn't see it that way. The DOJ was well aware of the group's agenda and policies when it decided to grant Hookers for Jesus additional money instead of giving it to better-established, apolitical charities.
But this story also highlights a growing political issue that's sparking heated debate in both secular and religious ciricles: the decriminalization of prostitution.
Bringing Prostitution Out of the Shadows
It's often referred to as "the world's oldest profession." Whether accurate or not, time has proven that prostitution is not something that be legislated out of existence. Where outlawed, it just goes into the shadows. "If it's going to exist either way, why not bring it out into the open?" the argument goes. Research also shows this could provide a much safer environment for sex workers.
Recent polling has revealed surprising support for decriminalizing prostitution and solicitation. And even some presidential candidates are talking about it on the campaign trail. Presidential hopeful Tulsi Gabbard has pushed most strongly for decriminalization, arguing: “If a consenting adult wants to engage in sex work, that is their right, and it should not be a crime. All people should have autonomy over their bodies and their labor.”
Fellow Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren has also insisted she was ‘open’ to decriminalizing sex work, and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders concedes “it's a complicated issue,” but one that merits further discussion. Of the 2020 candidates, only Gabbard received high marks from the group Decriminalize Sex Work.
Republicans, however, appear unlikely to back decriminalization any time soon. Although some are in favor of the ‘Nordic model’, which decriminalizes the selling of sex but keeps purchasing illegal, many are in favor of maintaining the status quo.
Which Side is God On?
With decriminalization actually gaining ground as a political issue, we may be hearing about it a lot more in the years to come. Its clear where "Hookers for Jesus" stand on the issue, but what about the man himself? If Jesus were around today, where would he figure in on this debate?
Would the son of God, known to meet with all manner of sinners – including prostitutes – be comfortable with the idea of decriminalizing prostitution?
Or would he be in favor of keeping it illegal on the basis of morality? The Bible explicitly prohibits adultery, after all. And just because Jesus loves the sinner doesn’t mean He loves the sin... or thinks it should be legal.
What do you think? Should prostitution be decriminalized? Where, exactly, does God fit into the debate?
120 comments
-
Richard Lee Cornell
When this goes up it will be in the middle of COVID-19 who will now limited this old profession. Since each client could be her last one.
-
Daniel Gray
sorry but you have yet to prove me wrong on anything and instead you attack others religions with almost every post and then wonder why people laugh at you, or pity you
-
Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
I'm wondering what legalized prostitution would look like, just as a practical matter. Would it be like Uber or Lyft? I'm assuming not - I wouldn't want a stranger coming into my house with identity theft as much of an issue as it is. Or would we expect Motel 6 to have a special "red light block" where strangers could tryst? Would you rent by the hour? Or would it be the single mother next door can't afford lunch money and puts up a notice at 10:30 PM for all her male friends to bid on a quick one?
Of course I'm being grotesque, but I'm trying to point out that the real question is "Why?" What woman would want to prostitute herself? The moral posture - the one that I can state with confidence that Jesus would take - is to take the time to ask that question and try to spare her from her desperation.
If legalization brings the sex worker out of the darkness so that question is easier to ask, then go ahead and legalize the trade. But don't think that the moral issue is thereby resolved.
And as for the other end of the situation: young men are susceptible to sexual addiction. Sexual addicts may be the mainstay of the sex workers clientele. How do we prevent sex workers from becoming sex pushers?
-
Daniel Gray
If you say so Lionheart, but your posts say different
-
Samuel Ubani
From everyone point of view cultural way to teach practice of sex and make money is worth the effort. Even for prostitute
-
Rev. Jonathan Peebles
Jesus hung out with sinners and tell them they couldn't come as they are making it didn't hard for people to belong...
-
David Arthur Lewis
"Lionheart" is an evil troll who should be banned from this site.
-
Lionheart
I’m so sorry you feel that way David. Perhaps if you were a free-thinker, and a secular humanist, like myself, you might feel very differently towards people that do not have the same beliefs as your own.
If I had a believe system at all it would be that we are meant to just love one another, and be courteous and kind. I just wish many religions had the same type of philosophy.
🦁❤️
-
Minister Mike
"Evil Troll" 🤣🤣🤣
Gotta love how those who can't make a common sense, factual replis to other's comments accuse others of being trolls trying to hide their own shortcomings. 😜
Go and sin no more, David.
-
-
John Alden Dadmun
This is not about whether or not prostitution should be legalized, or about where god ought to be in the debate. This is about taxpayer dollars being used to fund Christian reprogramming camps for at-risk victims of human trafficking. Obviously funding support for victims of human trafficking would be fine. Reprogramming camps that require the adoption of specific and extreme religious belief, sponsored by the US government however, is no better than Chinese prison-like reprogramming camps for Muslims. Outrageous, not to be found in the path of the teachings of Jesus.
-
Tabitha
The best thing about ULC articles, is reading the comments section afterward
-
Karl Axel Lindström
I think sex work should be legal so long as its done in a way where no one is forced into it... and there has to be some way of ensuring access to legal sex workers is not exclusive to the rich otherwise it becomes a class question which is unacceptable...
ultimately the requirement to qualify to be a sex worker may be so prohibitive that its not practical though.... but people should have the right to do it if they want... at least as a principle.
I'm sort of envisioning some long term degree that covers psychology, the history around prostitution (which is rich and fascinating and has had an extreme effect on society..
I mean for instance prostitutes in ancient time where wound in temples when sex was seen as a communion with the divine... the outlook was just very different from today...
prostitutes also shaped the wild west holding a lot of economic power. the roman legions would use special army issued tokens with pictures to help communicate what sex acts they where interested when in foreign lands... stuff like that...
Basically i would turn prostitutes into academics studying the history and practice of sex in all its facets.
-
Dorothy E. Cogswell
Trump loves hookers.
-
Daniel Gray
And sadly you have dont nothing but repost left wing political lies. How bad your life must be for you to just accept this with no truth behind it.
-
David A Griffith
Plenty of proof, you need to open your eyes to something other than FOX News.
-
Daniel Gray
Sorry but I dont watch Fox news. Seems unlike you I dont need people to tell me what to think or believe. Might be a good idea for you to stop yourself.
-
-
Rev. Theodore P. Keppard Jr.
This is why politics and religion don't mix it's sad as a christian when you put your fate in any political party. Now as a christian I see Trump as the man he truly is based on the fruit he bare. Fox news or anyone can't change that but Jesus if he truly let him in his life he's just a man that we as Americans put in the white house. Pray and as a christian open your eyes to the truth.
-
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And look, Mikey and Dàn-Dan! They even posted that one, which didn't have anything to do with the topic at all. Go figure. However, one thing does lead to another.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Y'all would never believe how many people I know from A.A. and N.A. meetings who tell me they miss me, and wish I'd start going back to meetings everyday, instead of not more than once a month. I only did that for thirty something years, without feeling appreciated. I tell them my work on this blog is too important to me now. It also makes me feel much better than those meetings ever did. So, maybe those whet brains will follow suit, and join us some day. Regardless, it looks like y'all might be stuck with me for a very long time. For not only am I a master of dishiñg it out, but have developed a very tough skin. So, stick around, if y'all dare, as I surely take y'all on the most thrilling ride of your lives. And it all boils down to one thing. Like I have often said, "Pleased to meet you. Won't you guess my name?"the
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
All the young dudes carry the news. All the young dudes carry the news. I don't want to change the world. I don't want the world to change me. Regardless of that, "You can't have your pudding before you eat your meat." Protein before carbohydrates. I didn't write the lyrics. That's just how it goes down best.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
What does any of that have to do with paying for sex, or legalizing prostitution.
-
flugo
Does God approve of prostitution? That is the original issue prompted by the UCLM in this blog. NO where in the Scriptures does God approve of prostitution! NO where. No further discussion is warranted.
-
Minister Mike
Nowhere in the christian bible doe god DISapprove of proestution. In fact, one of the most praised people in the Old Testament was a whore - Rahab.
No further discussion warrented.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Whores and prostitutes are not the same things. Whores are more likely to give it away.
-
Minister Mike
Bible doesn't address your differentiation.
-
-
Daniel Gray
Um sorry "expert" it was Mary Magdaline a repentant prostitute. maybe you should know what you are talking about before you start talking?
-
Asa William Sprague, II
The Christian Bible does NOT say Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. If you want to dispute it, post the chapter and verse.
-
Daniel Gray
Luke 7:37-38
-
Anna Brown
37 A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was...Does not say this woman was Mary M
-
Dennis Wayne Starr
This the hypocrisy of Daniel Gray. He takes a excerpt from the bible, twist it, restates it and makes it his own to fit whatever pathetic agenda he is trying to defend. It is a puzzle. He argues and insult everyone here. It makes me wonder what type of religion this gentleman professes which is his right. He makes me think of the mother of "Carrie" in the movie who beat her chest and pulling her hair when "Carrie" became a woman. I have tried to debate this man but I have realized there is only a one way conversation with him and will now leave him to his own devices......or vices. I am not sure if I should pray for him or not because I am not sure which deity he really is interested in. So I do not want to encourage the wrong side of the fence.
-
-
-
Minister Mike
Joshua 2.
-
-
Dennis Wayne Starr
Minister Mike, have you heard of something called a "Spelling checker". It is hard to take anything you say seriously when you have so many grammatical, sentence and spelling errors. Your PC should help with spelling and maybe have someone proof read for the rest of your errors.
-
Minister Mike
Oh, please, almighty Dennis! Delineate each of my errors so I can know the errors of my way!
Ever wonder if I care if YOU take anything I say seriously? How lame can YOU get? 🤣
Now, would you like to comment on the thread topic or just continue pretending to be better than me?
-
Dennis Wayne Starr
This is a quote from YOU earlier "Daniel, with all your spelling and grammar mistakes, how can we take anything you say seriously?" Like to dish it out but not take it it? The true sign of an immature defensive child. Trying to defend your own hypocrisy? I guess I AM better than you.
-
-
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Someday, after we've run off all the Christian prostitutes from this blog, we'll be able to have much more meaningful conversations, and get a lot more accomplished.
-
Minister Mike
What are you going to accomplish after the hookers are gone?
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
What about that hooker Jesus hung out with. Wasn't her name Jezabelle, or something like that. Do you think she was screwing him for free? Surely you don't think Jesus was celebant, like a Catholic priest, or true to only his gay apostles, who left their wives to be with him.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That's just because the writers of the Bible didn't think it was important enough to be mentioned. Some things are expected to be taken for granted, flugo. Regardless of that, haven't you ever heard of the prostitutes of God. Or do you think your god is celebant. Surely you don't think they give it to him for free!
-
-
Chaplain Burgess
https://newsource-embed-prd.ns.cnn.com/videos/newsource-video-embed.js A mass burial was held in Indiana on Wednesday for the more than 2,400 fetal remains foundlast year in the Illinois garage of a doctor who performed abortions. Dr. Ulrich Klopfer operated three abortion clinics in South Bend, Indiana, before his license was suspended in 2015. He died on Sept. 3. While going through his belongings after […]
-
Minister Mike
Still the wrong article, burgess. Saying it more than once does not make it acceptable.
-
-
Woodrow
Let the person without sin throw the first stone
-
Chaplain Burgess
Look Christianity is not about the fact that you committed a sin once or seven 7 times. Its about the acknowledgement of once you know better you should do better.
One second at a time, one minute at a time one human nteraction at a time. With a spouse man and woman not female the union is blessed if it is monogomaous and loyal or whatever the husband and wife "AGREE" on " sexually! Let no man/woman Tear apart what "GOD" hath put together!" Marriage is not made by man and so says the Supreme Court of the US and the Constitution. Plus it's "GOD" he knew there would be diseases ,humantrafficking,abortion and lawyers!-
Minister Mike
Let the person without sin cast the first stone.
-
-
-
Minister Mike
Anybody know why all my comments are now being moderated?
-
Lionheart
Perhaps you need to be a good boy when replying 🤪
-
Minister Mike
I'm always good. Sometimes good-for-nothing, but always good. 😜
Seriously, any idea why? Or who to whine at?
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It's because the staff of ULC thinks too many of your comments have been too far out in left field, Mikey. So shape up, or ship out !
-
Minister Mike
Nope. Because I post too often, they say. And don't post my comments at all.
-
-
-
Minister Mike
Although there are passages that try to imply prostitution is a sin, neither the old or new testaments, or even JC his own self, say it's a sin. Especially, JC. So, there is no biblical reason to make harlotry illegal.
And don't forget Rahab, the most famous harlot of all times, praised for her unselfish acts.
The only difference between prostitution and marriage is that being with a hooker is a one night stand - in both relationships money, or something of value, is exchanged for sex.
-
Chaplain Burgess
https://newsource-embed-prd.ns.cnn.com/videos/newsource-video-embed.js A mass burial was held in Indiana on Wednesday for the more than 2,400 fetal remains foundlast year in the Illinois garage of a doctor who performed abortions. Dr. Ulrich Klopfer operated three abortion clinics in South Bend, Indiana, before his license was suspended in 2015. He died on Sept. 3. While going through his belongings after […]
-
Minister Mike
Wrong article, Burgess. But, nice, but failed, try at obfuscating the issue.
-
Minister Mike
Wrong article, Burgess. But nice failed try at obfuscating the issue being discussed.
-
-
-
Chaplain Burgess
Leviticus 19:29 'Do not profane your daughter by making her a harlot, so that the land will not fall to harlotry and the land become full of lewdness.
47 Bible Verses about Prostitution ‹› Most Relevant Verses Genesis 38:15-16 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a harlot, for she had covered her face. So he turned aside to her by the road, and said, "Here now, let me come in to you"; for he did not know that she was his daughter-in-law. And she said, "What will you give me, that you may come in to me?"
Joshua 2:1 Verse Concepts Then Joshua the son of Nun sent two men as spies secretly from Shittim, saying, "Go, view the land, especially Jericho " So they went and came into the house of a harlot whose name was Rahab, and lodged there.
Joel 3:3 Verse Concepts "They have also cast lots for My people, Traded a boy for a harlot And sold a girl for wine that they may drink.
Genesis 38:21-22 He asked the men of her place, saying, "Where is the temple prostitute who was by the road at Enaim?" But they said, "There has been no temple prostitute here." So he returned to Judah, and said, "I did not find her; and furthermore, the men of the place said, 'There has been no temple prostitute here.'"
Job 36:14 Verse Concepts "They die in youth, And their life perishes among the cult prostitutes.
Leviticus 19:29 Verse Concepts 'Do not profane your daughter by making her a harlot, so that the land will not fall to harlotry and the land become full of lewdness.
Deuteronomy 23:17-18 "None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, nor shall any of the sons of Israel be a cult prostitute. "You shall not bring the hire of a harlot or the wages of a dog into the house of the LORD your God for any votive offering, for both of these are an abomination to the LORD your God.
-
Chaplain Burgess
MICAH 1 :7 All of her idols will be smashed, All of her earnings will be burned with fire And all of her images I will make desolate, For she collected them from a harlot's earnings, And to the earnings of a harlot they will return.
Proverbs 6:25-27 Do not desire her beauty in your heart, Nor let her capture you with her eyelids. For on account of a harlot one is reduced to a loaf of bread, And an adulteress hunts for the precious life. Can a man take fire in his bosom And his clothes not be burned?
Proverbs 29:3 A man who loves wisdom makes his father glad, But he who keeps company with harlots wastes his wealth.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
-
Lionheart
What does it really matter what an old book of tales and myth says?
That same book is riddled with extremely poor morals from it’s mythical deity. If he can’t get his act together why should we worry about the worlds oldest profession?
🦁❤️
-
Robert Edward Szekely
I don't think it's necessary to attack the Bible directly to discuss this point. We've got to realistically deal with the reality we face, and the bottom line is that you cannot legislate morality. It never succeeds. It's a personal, private issue, and the law has no place in it - as long as what occurs is between two consulting adults, and no one suffers intentional serious injury as a result. Many fundamentalist (or even run-of-the-mill Catholics) try to shame sex--even when its not for sale. That mindset of suppression is what results in a large number of sex crimes and sexual assaults in the United States--ask any psychologist--suppression and/or repression ultimately leads to inappropriate and often dangerous and/or destructive expression of fundamental human needs: only fools try to criminalize those needs, simply because they disagree with how those needs are met.
If you give people a legitimate outlet when they're not in a relationship, society as a whole becomes healthier. Religious faith (or lack thereof) is a very personal and private matter. One of the things that is preventing the United States from maturing as a nation is a failure to recognize that although religious expression doesn't necessarily have to be prohibited from the public sphere, it does need to be removed from the legislature--as not all Americans share the dogmas and prejudices of any particular faith, and the laws of the land need to reflect that. For those who believe an act is immoral in the eyes of their God, then the right answer is to leave it to that God to pass judgement, not us. We're not qualified to take on the role of proxy barristers for the Divine: albeit throughout history, many still have the hubris to think that they can.
Sex is an undeniable human drive that will not be denied. Let's make sure a safe avenue is available for those who need it, and not judge their morality by our personal religious standards, by trying to legislate those standards. Separation of church and state also means that religious doctrine and dogma should not find their way into law.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
When I was eighteen I peed on my Bible, and threw it in the trash. However, now at 57 I would never think of doing that again, for I've found that Bible pages make good rolling papers, especially for rolling up almost legal herbal substances.
-
David A Griffith
Well written and true. When religionists finally accept their way is not for everyone will there be peace.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Not a chance. There will always be something else for us to complain about.
-
-
Chaplain Burgess
Spoken like a PIMP!
-
Lionheart
That wasn't a very pleasant thing to say. People do have a right to give their point of view, even though some might not agree with it. His remarks seem to be to the point. I didn't read any vitriol in what he had to say. As a secular humanist, I don't see any point in vilifying someone because their opinion might be different. I know many religionists do, which tends to help me realize I am on a better pathway than most.
🦁♥️
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It takes one to know one.
-
-
Jack Gerber
This is extremely well stated.
-
Tom
Robert...i just read your comments, and i find them to be well-written and thought out, and i agree with them///Peace...Tom B
-
-
Minister Mike
Isn't the oldest profession, by christian standards, either farming or hunting?
-
Daniel Gray
As Jesus told the prostitute "Go and sin no more" Guess he was pretty clear about what the Bible says now isnt he.
And there you go again Lionheart, disparaging anothers religion. Sooner or later the complaints against you doing this are going to be more then the moderators can allow to continue. You want to say something then stop attacking others beliefs.
-
Ilmenheru Terikson
Its not disparaging to point out that based on all factual evidence there is no reason to consider a deity more then a myth. As a nondenominational minister its not disparaging to point out that someone not of a specific faith sees it as purely a myth.
To someone not of your specific faith, you believe in a fiction, that isnt an insult, that is stating a simple fact.
-
Lionheart
Very well said Sir!
🦁♥️
-
Daniel Gray
Sorry but when you have to attack other religions just to have something to say, then you are on the losing end of the argument/debate
-
Lionheart
You don’t need to apologize Daniel. When I make comments my intention is not to attack any religion, I merely point out the the obvious. I don’t mind losing any debate and I’m very open to anyone showing me evidence of their claims that a god exists.
🦁❤️
-
Daniel Gray
Not apologizing for stating fact Lionheart
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The only religion I ever care to attack is Christianity, simply because it totally sucks!!!
-
Daniel Gray
what exactly are you doing here then
-
-
-
-
Daniel Gray
And you have yet to point out or prove that it is a myth child.
-
Dennis Wayne Starr
Daniel I was understanding of you issues (although I disagree) until your statement of "Prove that is a myth" and then you use the term "child" with what I see as a insult. The basis of most religions is Faith. NOT Proof even though many Christian like to claim the bible and proof. While those who do not accept the bible as nothing than science fiction at best and pure fiction as worst. But your statement to prove a myth is asking someone to prove a negative. As you know the bible was written by MEN and compiled by MEN from word of mouth and written parchments and compiled by a king who wasn't even a Christian until the end. From people who could not comprehend anything more than their own environment. And you belief is the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. If you could objectively step back and look you might see how some other would see Christianity and your bible and Jewish Science fiction.
-
Minister Mike
Daniel, with all your spelling and grammar mistakes, how can we take anything you say seriously?
-
Daniel Gray
And with all the stuff you post that is fake and attacking other religions, when you get called on it the best you can do is become a grammar nazi as you cant refute it; then you expect us to take anything you say with any seriousness other then to call you out when you are wrong?
-
-
Daniel Gray
So you have a problem with the truth? Only a child attacks a person with nothing to back up their claims and yet here you are complaining about this fact. Typical
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
A comma should be placed after the word myth, before child.
-
Lionheart
So are you suggesting Daniel that a woman being made from the rib of a man, an animal that speaks, a serpent that speaks, a man storing two animals, make and female, on a boat from throughout the earth (which would include a three toed sloth that moves at about 6 feet a minute, to get to the ark) a virgin woman giving birth from a deity, a man walking on water, to name but a few, are not mythical? If you answer to the affirmative, you are unfortunately very sadly delusional, but know you are not on your own of that’s any comfort.
🦁❤️
-
Daniel Gray
And its no different then your religion. I cant prove yours does not exist any more then you can prove that mine does not exist. So why do you have to degrade it each and every time? Sounds like a personal problem to me.
-
Dennis Wayne Starr
My God Daniel your nothing but a hypocrite. I spoke of you wanting to prove a negative and then you claim I have a problem with "Truth". Is "truth"only as you see it without any other potential possibly? Or are you so closed minded they is not any room for anything else. And then your comment of "Only a child attack a person" which is exactly what you did, not only with Lionheart but all others. You seem to think that only you knows truth and somehow you are the arbitrator of everyone else's thinking and their truths. I would suggest you do a little introspection before your so willing to insult everyone who doesn't go along with your thinking. As you said "Not apologizing for stating fact". You seem to distort "facts",try to justify those distorted "facts" and then insult when others don't agree with your "facts. Maybe this is a blog you just don't need to be commented on.
-
Daniel Gray
Nope not a hypocrite, just stating fact. I am sorry that you are so biased that you cant see that simple truth
-
-
-
-
Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
And if I was to explain to you the physics behind spirituality?
Seriously: if you understood all the holes in modern particle theory, you'd need to call science a "fiction" as well.
-
-
Asa William Sprague, II
In John 8:3-11 the woman brought before Christ was not identified as a "prostitute." The gospel refers to her by the broader descriptor of "adulterer." This is an important difference as "adulterer" could mean "one who has sex with married men" or "one who has sex outside of her own marriage." It is also worth noting that some Biblical scholars believe Christ was being a bit sarcastic when he told her to "go and sin no more," as no pharisee formally accused her of being an adulterer.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Mark my words. They'll get tired of hearing your BS a lot quicker than Sir Lionheart's. And he will outlast you on this blog, tenfold, or more.
-
Daniel Gray
Oh really? Not from what I have been reading on the posts. Seems every time he wants to post he attacks a persons religion. Now tell me exactly how that he can continue to do this and not be sanctioned by the moderators if they want to be anywhere near fair. Does it not say here that they will not allow abusive posts? So exactly how can they continue to allow attacks on others religions?
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Are you sure you know where they're coming from, and what they're trying to accomplish? Could it be that the better we are at accepting eachother, the better we'll be at ministering to others. And that doesn't have anything to do with what anyone else does or does not accept. It comes from within.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
They don't let us comment on this blog because we're popular. It's much deeper than that.
-
Daniel Gray
No you are only popular in your own mind. Seems you have not read the posts against you or you just ignore them and continue on with this delusion
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Don't tell me you read all this trash! That would drive someone totally bonkers!
-
Daniel Gray
The only trash I see here is coming from you and a few others. But I guess even the most biased people need to speak.
-
-
-
-
-
Lionheart
Please don't misunderstand me Sir Daniel. The moderators in their infinite wisdom have chosen this Christian topic for us to address and discuss. All I am doing is pointing out some obvious truths from that book that people seem to revere, for some very strange reason.
If people get comfort from reading about death and destruction, I'm all for it. This is a wonderful country of freedom and liberty. That's if you live in the USA. Try reading my comments as educational.
Thank you for your comments though.
🦁♥️
-
Daniel Gray
And how can they be educational when all you do is disparage and attack religion?
-
Lionheart
Well Daniel, once again you are under the misapprehension that I’m attacking. All I need is demonstrable evidence for people’s claims of a god existing. Any god will do. You have hundreds, possibly thousands to choose from. Perhaps you can provide it?
🦁❤️
-
Daniel Gray
And all we need from you is proof that your religion exists. And yet all you do is attack.
-
Lionheart
I’m not the one making claims of any existence of a deity.
Until I see demonstrable evidence that deities, fairies, big foot, leprechauns, elves, gnomes, and many other unproven characters exist I see no logical reason to assume they are real.
Even supposedly omnipotent deities themselves seem to lack the power to be able to just show up and prove me wrong and you right. I think we all know the reason for that don’t we? It obviously just doesn’t exist, apart from in your head of course, and that’s where the problem lies, not for me, but for you.
-
Daniel Gray
No but you sure seem to want to attack the religions that do think their is a deity.
-
Lionheart
I am totally happy for you to think there is a deity. I am also happy for people to believe the earth is flat. I have some friends that believe that fairies are real. There is nothing wrong with what anyone wants think, or believe. If that’s what people need to get through this life, I say go for it. As for me, I’ll go with logic and reason every time.
🦁❤️
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Fairies wear boots, you've got to believe me. I tell you, I tell you, I tell you no lies. Alright now!
-
Lionheart
Fairies wear boots? How cute! Would they by any chance be red thigh high boots?
I believe! I believe!
🦁❤️
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'll have to ask Black Sabbath about that one. They're the ones who wrote the lyrics.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
In that sentence you should have used the word there, instead of their. You'll learn more about it in Junior high school, remedial reading.
-
Daniel Gray
funny words coming from a person who once claimed that a flying spaghetti monster exists. And while I have no proof that it does not at least I have never called you out for your beliefs...unlike you have done to myself and others because of your bias.
-
Lionheart
I have never said that a Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) exists Daniel. I might have said there is just as much evidence of an FSM existing as there is of any god existing, which of course would be a true statement.
The only time my comments might appear to be attacking someone might be at those that make fallacious statements saying that we are all going to an eternal place of fire and brimstone if we don’t accept a particular religion. Telling children this is to me mental abuse and that needs to be seriously addressed, if only to give children, (who might read this blog) support from such idiotic and cruel statements.
🦁❤️
-
-
Trevor John Roberts
Lionheart, you want evidence of a 'God', a creator? The evidence is all around you.
For those who do not believe in a creator, a God, what are the alternatives? Evolution? Please provide evidence for that. There is none!
The Big Bang Theory points to a time when the universe began. It's also a theory, but it does more to prove creation than evolution. Think on it a little.
One day, there was a big explosion. After that, a whole bunch of stuff came into existence, including intelligent life.
It's all structured and ordered with rules in place. In fact, there are enough constants for us to be able to plan and launch shuttles and satellites into space.
Order not chaos, rules our universe. More than enough proof of intelligent design.
Evolution on the other hand is not so ordered and structured. It is chaotic. Things grew out of nothing, then react to their environment and survive or die.
For example, a few atoms join together and become a living thing, by chance. A thing with no eyes, mouth or stomach. It needs energy to live, so it grows a mouth and stomach. Now it needs eyes and ears to locate a food source, so it grows them. Then, it needs legs or wings or something to help it move, so it grows them.
In the meantime it dies because it starved to death, or something else developed faster and ate it. Start again. Eventually, after billions of years, we have the world we live in today.
Believe this, or believe in deliberate, intelligent design. The fact that there is uniformity, structure and order in the universe, is enough evidence that there is a creator.
Take ONE thing, an eye. It's intricate and complicated. It interacts with the brain. The list goes on. That's just ONE thing. Think it came about by chance. Really?
Many people have turned away from religion, they reject belief in a creator God and reject morality.
Many of the churches, their leaders and followers are responsible for this because they do not teach or do what they are supposed to do. They make up their own rules. So they turn people away from God.
In fact, it's all very simple. There is a creator. He is intelligent. He has a plan.
Jesus gave us all free will. Then he extended an INVITATION to believe in him and follow him. He never forced anyone.
What you believe and how you live your life is up to you. Each individual must (and is free to) make their own choices.
-
-
-
-
Minister Mike
Not so much. The woman to whom you refer was an adultress, not a hooker:
"And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery;" John 8:3
Why do christians not even read their own holy book?
-
Daniel Gray
And why do people like you continue to attack other religions and think you are doing something smart. If I do good works and I die, and I will; I have harmed no one. And when I die if there is nothing afterwords then again who have I hurt? On the other hand with you and one other constantly trying to claim a God does not exist and you die and find out that there actually IS one, I dont think that the God is going to look on you very kindly for denying the existence and you saying "Opps My bad" somehow does not seem that its going to help you any
-
Minister Mike
So, you're proven wrong and, again, try to obfuscate the issue with immaterial remarks.
-
Daniel Gray
No I stated fact. I am sorry that your bias cant see that
-
Minister Mike
You did not state any facts - you tried to hide behind words that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
But, how is quoting the actual chapter and verse an attack on any religion? You said Jesus told a prostitute to go and sin no more, but the person he addressed was NOT a whore but an adulteress. You were wrong and quoting the bible proved that.
-
Daniel Gray
Nope sorry, I stated facts and proved where you were wrong. So there is no need to go off on a childish tantrum again when you are proved wrong
-
Minister Mike
So, you're proven wrong and, again, try to obfuscate the issue with immaterial remarks.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Paul J. Fumero
In the old days, the 3rd Jewish Temple had prostitutes for the Temple Priests and anyone else who would pay. So whats the big deal?
-
Lionheart
I am starting to wonder what "Christian standards" really are. It seems, when reading comments on here by many who proclaim to be Christian, that they all seem to get their literary morals from somewhere else.
You might have a point though. Farming, hunting, and possibly also killing, might be older professions. Thank you Sir Mike.
🦁♥️
-
Minister Mike
Lionheart, I'm not a Sir. I put my trousers on same as the rest of you - two legs at a time. 😜
From what I've read recently, I gather that referring to prostitution as the oldest profession started in the early 20th century. In America. By christians. Not long before the New York Stock Exchange crashed, perhaps as retribution for christians, again, misleading fellow believers.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I don't think christians really have standards, but only say they do, when it makes them look better than they really are.
-
-
Minister Mike
It was a woman accused of adultery, not prostitution.
-
Minister Mike
In the old days there was no 3rd jewish temple. In the new days, there is no third jewish temple.
The first temple was Solomon's temple. It was destroyed and rebuilt as the 2nd temple. That, too, was destroyed and no temple has been built to replace it. Today there is a muslim mosque on the site.
-
-
Easy. Jesus would be in favor of decriminalizing prostitution. Provided other crimes (pimping/sex trafficking/prostitute abuse/drug abuse/failure to pay prostitutes) were punished severely.
Criminalizing prostitution is the equivalent of punishing a victim. I turned to prostitution (I didn't have what it takes, and started crying before the first time; I might have gotten through it if my client had an ounce of sympathy, but they were kind enough just to not beat me up for not being able to do it, and shooed me outside) when I was trans and seeking a way to pay expenses after job loss with an apartment rent to work with. Had the landlord found out, I might have been evicted (criminal = potentially punishable by all legit businesses). And I could have been beaten or even killed by clients.
Cops think they are helping prostitutes, but if they really want to fix things, criminalize pimping, and criminalize drugging, abuse, and sex trafficking unwilling people. No they like to bully the little ppl into informing on their superiors. But I didn't have a pimp. If I was caught, I had no plea bargain.
Decriminalizing prostitution ought to be a thing. But here's how it works. You want to be a prostitute, you become licensed. The license does not cost money (many prostitutes are in desperate enough straits) but rather involves testing for STDs, and offering preventative medicine and treatment for safest sex. They are rated by grade, with ideally a smoking hot one with no STDS a grade A. Like eggs at the market, you aspire to this, but unlike stores, there are grade C (or lower) prostitutes. Clients that don't care that much get a nice discount. Their "pimps" are undercover police officers, and there is hidden security personnel. The clinic is made like a hotel, but if anything suspect goes on, the prostitutes can ring a pager necklace thing (like a LifeAlert). Only instead of, "I've fallen and I can't get up" they say, "This guy is paying me in drugs/beating or trying to kill me/has been trafficking me/refuses to pay/etc." They don't exit the building without being cuffed, as surely as trying to rob a police station.
A job is a job is a job. We need to stop stigmatizing people like that. Mary of Bethany (conflated with Mary Magdalene the demoniac) was a prostitute. We need to instead protect them from those who would hurt them.